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| TMavica | https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/KaHxpAhJ/20151120_1120_1.jpg | 04:00 |
|---|---|---|
| TMavica | Fake news? | 04:00 |
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| Stskeeps | TMavica: i'm not sure what it says.. :) | 06:38 |
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| Nicd- | there is a new article in today's Aamulehti, but only in paid version | 06:39 |
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| Nicd- | titled: "The optimistic Jolla sailed into a tumultuous financing crisis" | 06:40 |
| Stskeeps | finnish newspapers really love negative stories, don't they? | 06:41 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 06:41 |
| Nicd- | I'll try to get my hands on the paper magazine today to write down the main points | 06:41 |
| Nicd- | yes, we do | 06:41 |
| WalterN | I think that defines all news papers | 06:41 |
| *** WalterN is now known as tiwake | 06:41 | |
| Nicd- | but even more than that we love negative internet commenting | 06:42 |
| Nicd- | you wouldn't believe all the hate Jolla has got right from the start | 06:42 |
| Nicd- | from people who have never even seen the phone | 06:43 |
| Stskeeps | comment forums on newspapers are a good way to make you hate your fellow citizens | 06:43 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 06:43 |
| tigeli | I didn't read a single comment on the media yesterday | 06:43 |
| AL13N | coderus: basically, your idea was that re-adding jolla account would also add the proper repositories? | 06:45 |
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| svuorela | |..has any one of the indiegogo people received a tablet yet ? | 06:46 |
| Stskeeps | svuorela: yes, they have | 06:46 |
| Stskeeps | not a huge amount, but many has | 06:46 |
| Stskeeps | so, it's not vaporware | 06:46 |
| AL13N | 1st wave, i assume | 06:46 |
| Stskeeps | just not in the hands of all backers | 06:46 |
| AL13N | yet | 06:46 |
| * svuorela will be busywaiting at the mailbox for another month then. | 06:49 | |
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| AL13N | i keep myself busy while waiting | 06:50 |
| TMavica | Jolla is over soon | 06:50 |
| TMavica | Time to think what phone I need move to | 06:50 |
| TMavica | I dont think it can withstand long time | 06:51 |
| Stskeeps | TMavica: well, let's see how the world looks in a few months | 06:51 |
| Stskeeps | i don't think the jolla spirit is in any way dead | 06:51 |
| TMavica | I dont want also. | 06:52 |
| TMavica | All main char left, whats the cause | 06:52 |
| Stskeeps | well, let's be honest, the real soul of the company are the developers :) | 06:52 |
| Stskeeps | and the foot soldiers | 06:52 |
| TMavica | U, Marc, Tim Mc, Jason Rice, many many is leaving | 06:52 |
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| Nokius_work | Stskeeps: +1 | 06:53 |
| Stskeeps | i'm 'leaving', as in, be able to determine my own priorities, but hope still to do some work for jolla | 06:53 |
| TMavica | Lets see | 06:53 |
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| Stskeeps | and it'll hopefully make more sense why in a few months, because it wasn't about company situation | 06:53 |
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| TMavica | Let it simple, no money no hope | 06:56 |
| Stskeeps | ah, well | 06:56 |
| Stskeeps | when we started jolla, we didn't have money either | 06:56 |
| Stskeeps | we were unpaid for several months, enthusiastic to start the story :) | 06:56 |
| TMavica | But now it needs | 06:56 |
| TMavica | Money can solve all the things, no money = dead | 06:58 |
| TMavica | I really dont want said that | 06:58 |
| TMavica | But it truth | 06:58 |
| pp_ | there have been git commits in the last few days :P | 06:58 |
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| AL13N | we'll cross that bridge when we get it | 07:06 |
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| Tofe | TMavica: no money = need to look for money. That's the basic routine for a startup. | 10:35 |
| Tofe | (or even for some big companies... look at Amazon...) | 10:38 |
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| Aciid | any new news? | 10:53 |
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| ced117 | nop :-( | 11:00 |
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| Stskeeps | moo rigo | 11:02 |
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| * SfietKonstantinW thinks about converging ubuntu touch and sfos | 11:13 | |
| SfietKonstantinW | Stskeeps: do you think that this can even be done ? | 11:14 |
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| mornfall | what is going on? | 11:20 |
| shpank | i'm asking myself the same thing | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | SfietKonstantinW: ugh :) | 11:20 |
| shpank | all i read here are conspiracy theories | 11:21 |
| ggabriel | mourning prep for some, optimistic thinking for others, indifference for the rest perhaps | 11:21 |
| SfietKonstantinW | ggabriel: indifference for the majority of people | 11:21 |
| SfietKonstantinW | jolla is not yet known enough | 11:21 |
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| lainwir3d | yeah, converge with ubuntu touch : make ubuntu touch users understand that sailfish is better and make them switch | 11:23 |
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| ggabriel | isn't ubuntu's stack pretty much the same underneath the ui? | 11:23 |
| Stskeeps | no, quite different in many regards | 11:23 |
| ggabriel | ok | 11:23 |
| shpank | ubuntu uses apt, sailfish os uses rpm | 11:23 |
| shpank | one of the many differences | 11:24 |
| shpank | and quite major, if you ask me | 11:24 |
| tbr | ubuntu touch uses click and moves to snap | 11:24 |
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| tbr | what's more relevant than the package format is how they approach separation | 11:25 |
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| lainwir3d | and doesn't they use Mir ? eeeeeeeeeewww :-( | 11:25 |
| tbr | well it shouldn't matter for the app though, should it? | 11:25 |
| lainwir3d | true | 11:26 |
| mornfall | lainwir3d: because the ancient wayland on jolla is such a blessing :P | 11:26 |
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| ggabriel | mornfall: ancient? my desktop uses X still... | 11:27 |
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| mornfall | ggabriel: ancient in X terms is an entirely different thing than ancient in wayland terms | 11:27 |
| ggabriel | mornfall: so you mean ancient in X = 20yo vs 60yo; ancient in wayland; 15yo vs 20yo? (in person terms) :P | 11:28 |
| mornfall | huh? | 11:28 |
| ggabriel | ignore my analogy, just a joke | 11:28 |
| mornfall | I mean that wayland changes more in a year than X in 5 | 11:28 |
| ggabriel | sure | 11:28 |
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| mornfall | we are basically stuck running a software stack that was forked 3 or so years ago from upstreams and is entirely out of touch with those | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | mmmm, maybe not totally true | 11:32 |
| jolo | was just about to order two phones today... but is it still a good idea? if they are going belly up there is not guarantee... I was hoping for new phone hardware maybe soonish? doesn't look like it :/ | 11:32 |
| Nicd- | jolo: there is an Intex phone coming out early next year, but nobody knows the specs | 11:33 |
| mornfall | well yes, you can still get new python and (more importantly) openssl... i.e. the portable bits of the stack | 11:34 |
| mornfall | but that's not really how 'modern' linux works | 11:34 |
| jolo | @nicd: thanks for that! Appreciate it! | 11:35 |
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| Aciid | https://twitter.com/AnttiSaarnio/status/667337032914472960 | 11:43 |
| Aciid | still waiting | 11:43 |
| ced117 | ha, didnt saw that one | 11:44 |
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| ln- | *didn't see | 11:47 |
| ced117 | RIGHT | 11:47 |
| ced117 | oops | 11:47 |
| ced117 | right, thanks ln- :) | 11:48 |
| Helle | meh, I want phones to shrink again :( | 11:48 |
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| r0kk3rz | Helle: time to build a shrink-ray then | 11:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Sometimes, yes. | 11:48 |
| Helle | have recently used my SE W890i again because I needed a long battery life phone that would fit in my pockets during an event | 11:48 |
| Helle | and it's so much more practical in those uses | 11:48 |
| r0kk3rz | jphone size is ok, just need the bezels to be a bit thinner | 11:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Helle: Wait a couple of years, and then smart-watches will get 3.5" displays. | 11:49 |
| Milo- | hm, 23 hours since Aarnio mentioned upcoming blog post. I'm guessing they'll inform that no new tablets will be produced at this time. | 11:49 |
| jolo | i am currently back on a nokia 6020. heck. last charged 3 days ago and still > 50% battery life. | 11:49 |
| Sailor12328_ | Milo: something along these lines | 11:50 |
| Milo- | jolo I last charged my jolla during sunday-monday night. 64 % charge. | 11:50 |
| Helle | SpeedEvil: I actually use a smartwatch, but currently pondering the Pebble Time Round to upgrade to a smaller one with | 11:50 |
| r0kk3rz | jolo: saw someone whip out a 3310 the other day, thing of beauty | 11:50 |
| Helle | my Pebble is mostly just "give me all my data feeeeeeeeds" | 11:50 |
| Milo- | r0kk3rz you do know they make 3310 cases for iphones now :p | 11:50 |
| r0kk3rz | of course they do | 11:51 |
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| mornfall | I forgot my 3310 in Rio :\ | 11:52 |
| Helle | the W890i is the thinnest, smallest phone I own | 11:53 |
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| Helle | and when I need an actual small, long term usable phone, it's a winner | 11:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | Helle: I have a n7 2013 - if it was 10mm wider, I could not comfortably and securely hold it in one hand without strain. | 11:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Problem is that at point-of-sale, people rarely consider long-time use. | 11:56 |
| Helle | SpeedEvil: yeah | 11:56 |
| Helle | I am pondering to find a cheap Android phone with similar small specs as a secondary phone, and probably to try and port Sailfish to | 11:56 |
| Helle | but I just know they aren't really out there | 11:57 |
| SpeedEvil | There are some | 11:57 |
| SpeedEvil | but, they are chinese and undocumented | 11:57 |
| Helle | SpeedEvil: most of those are thicker, because of battery life expectations in China | 11:58 |
| jonwil | I have yet to see any Android phone with good specs and all the things that I like about my Nokia N900 like the landscape physical keyboard. All the phones with a landscape physical keyboard are either low-spec and crap or impossible to get (or are limited to only one carrier like Verizon) | 11:59 |
| Helle | jonwil: no chance, keyboards are expensive to do right | 12:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.banggood.com/ZOPO-ZP330-4_5-Inch-Android-5_1-1GB-RAM-MTK6735-1_0GHz-Quad-core-Smartphone-p-981688.html - say | 12:00 |
| SpeedEvil | jonwil: '' | 12:01 |
| jonwil | More than that, any phone with hwkbd is going to be much thicker than normal phones and no-one wants a phone that thick anymore :( | 12:01 |
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| Helle | but for me the major issue is a requirement of, "fits into slim jeans pockets even" | 12:03 |
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| jonwil | I dont have a need for my phone to fit into a pocket, I keep my phone in a shoulder bag :) | 12:03 |
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| Helle | at conferences, if I am doing something organising, I don't want to carry around a purse | 12:04 |
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| jolo | i don't care much how thick the phone is. needs to be in a bumper case anyways. | 12:05 |
| Helle | not really | 12:06 |
| jolo | milo: yea, that was one of the reasons I want one. | 12:06 |
| Helle | I never bumpercased any of my phones and the worst that happens is that corners wear | 12:06 |
| jolo | helle: tell that to my nexus 4 :/ | 12:07 |
| caitlinb | clumsy people something something nice things | 12:07 |
| Nicd- | Helle: cargo pants ;) if you don't mind looking like a dweeb | 12:07 |
| Helle | eh, no | 12:09 |
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| Nicd- | always space for phone, wallet, keys and a pocket to spare \o/ | 12:11 |
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| rigo | hi Stskeeps | 13:20 |
| * rigo was distracted by some meetings | 13:20 | |
| Stskeeps | join the club ;) | 13:21 |
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| HtheB | any official statement given already? | 13:54 |
| Scelt | https://blog.jolla.com/ -> F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5 | 13:54 |
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| HtheB | Scelt: ctrl+F5 | 13:55 |
| HtheB | or CTRL+R | 13:55 |
| ggabriel | some people are saying that step 1: open source sfos; step 2: ???; step 3: profit | 13:55 |
| HtheB | ggabriel: wait what?! wasn't sailfish os open already (/scarcasm) | 13:56 |
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| HtheB | oh the irony =) | 13:56 |
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| tbr | ggabriel: other people say, it's too late for it to achieve 4 in monetary terms, but at least might secure a future for existing hardware owners | 14:01 |
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| r0kk3rz | tbr: it would be sad to see it locked up somewhere to rot | 14:05 |
| r0kk3rz | at least we have all the mer/nemo bits | 14:05 |
| tbr | and I have backups of the open source compliance drops | 14:05 |
| ggabriel | if worse comes to worse and jolla is no more and nobody buys the closed bits to continue something, it'd be nice if it gets dumped somewhere so that the community picks it up, yes | 14:06 |
| ggabriel | but atm i don't think that'd do any good | 14:06 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | well, Jolla needs help and the closed bits prevent many people from helping | 14:11 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | also future proofing as mentioned above | 14:12 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah well open webos hasnt really gone anywhere | 14:12 |
| r0kk3rz | and lots of people liked that as well | 14:13 |
| r0kk3rz | you almost wonder if samsung would buy it and roll it into tizen or something | 14:13 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | the stuff will be hardly opensourced once the last person switches off the lights and closes the door | 14:13 |
| tbr | it takes time and it is not a magic bullet in itself | 14:13 |
| ggabriel | tbr: +1 | 14:13 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | certainly | 14:13 |
| ggabriel | samsung would be bad news, but better than nothing | 14:14 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | but would still hate to see the same thing repeated for the third time | 14:14 |
| r0kk3rz | or idk htc, since sammy has tizen, lg has webos | 14:14 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | n900/n9/Jolla... | 14:14 |
| r0kk3rz | actually sony could be a contender there | 14:15 |
| ggabriel | lg installs webos in "smart" tv's | 14:15 |
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| r0kk3rz | gabriel9: and smart watches | 14:15 |
| cehteh | same fail as nokia did with the n900 .. aiming for big business, forgot their roots, have no faith and trust in the community | 14:15 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | +1 | 14:15 |
| pdanek | Samsung is developing high-end Tizen phones. | 14:15 |
| ggabriel | r0kk3rz: uhm... japanese company innovating with sw? | 14:15 |
| cehteh | if they acknowledge their role as underdog and hacker device and be more open then there would be far less trouble and they would still get food on the table | 14:16 |
| ggabriel | cehteh: I don't know how you reach that conclusion | 14:16 |
| mornfall | r0kk3rz: with no new hardware to run the OS, I don't think getting the source is going to be very useful, mid-term and beyond | 14:17 |
| r0kk3rz | r0kk3rz: yeah i know.... thats why they'd buy a built-ish solution, rather than start their own from scratch | 14:17 |
| r0kk3rz | ggabriel: | 14:17 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | dont forget hadk | 14:17 |
| sledges | ;) | 14:17 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | there is a lot of potential Android phone targets | 14:18 |
| ggabriel | hadk never forgotten | 14:18 |
| ggabriel | aren't the intex ones those? :P | 14:18 |
| mornfall | M4rtinK_tohkbd: android phones suffer from the same problems as the jolla phone | 14:18 |
| cehteh | i feel that jolla development is somewhat distanced from the community developement, things/ideas get not adopted fast enough, possibly only because they dont have the manpower to do, but also because things are not open enough and because they dont trust the community and want to keep in strict controll | 14:18 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | a big difference from Freemantle/Harmattan | 14:18 |
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| ggabriel | cehteh: sure, but how changing that would make jolla get more money? | 14:19 |
| mornfall | M4rtinK_tohkbd: android and modern linux don't play well together | 14:19 |
| mornfall | M4rtinK_tohkbd: you get a forked kernel that runs on the SoC and you are stuck with that forever | 14:19 |
| ln- | cehteh: do you know any commercially successful semi-opensource project that was not implemented in strict control? | 14:19 |
| mornfall | M4rtinK_tohkbd: or you could try to build your stack on freedreno/kms/dri instead of libhybris and vendor GL | 14:22 |
| cehteh | ggabriel: at least it would make them burn less money | 14:22 |
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| cehteh | then prolly more satisfied customers, more sales | 14:23 |
| ggabriel | cehteh: they'd probably burn a lot more money by controlling it | 14:23 |
| Raim | cehteh: open-sourcing is actually more work as the integration workload is much higher when accepting patches from everyone | 14:23 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | mornfall: yeah, im aware or the android kernel & driver madness | 14:23 |
| mornfall | M4rtinK_tohkbd: that'd probably work on jolla-phone-generation hardware | 14:23 |
| cehteh | and they could focus on real development for improvements and future things | 14:23 |
| mornfall | but jolla phone itself doesn't give you serial, so it's a crappy development platform | 14:23 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | but its getting so bad that hopefully something will be finally done about it | 14:24 |
| cehteh | Raim: i know, but they could work at least in some hierarchical way where some people from the community can do some intrgration with a good chance that it will be accepted | 14:24 |
| mornfall | and jolla the company is clearly not interested in running on free drivers | 14:24 |
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| ggabriel | it's hard to code drivers | 14:24 |
| mornfall | (even the tablet uses libhybris, AFAIK...) | 14:24 |
| ggabriel | well, time consuming | 14:24 |
| pp_ | "android hardware" is the cheapest, I'm sure | 14:24 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | I can kinda uderstand that | 14:24 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | you can get at least some support for the android drivers from the manufacturer | 14:25 |
| Raim | cehteh: just look at the sailfish browser, pull requests are open for months already and nobody gets to them | 14:25 |
| mornfall | M4rtinK_tohkbd: you mean from intel? :) | 14:25 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | not really for the open ones as long as the hardware authors dont contriute | 14:26 |
| mornfall | but yeah, ARM SoCs are crazy | 14:26 |
| * cehteh thinks about simple things .. like that (official) apps cant install service, camera cant store on sdcard, android apps cant store on sdcard, low power mode etc ... this things could be brought to a point where they are done by the community and then just need some offical blessing | 14:26 | |
| locusf | pure adaptations are many times more difficult vs hybrizs | 14:27 |
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| Johann | Could a community based development a little like the diydrones work for Jolla ? They provide hardware and all the software is developed by the community. The company offers a lot to the most active community members (from free shirt to free drones) I guess something like that could work for phone development. | 14:27 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | no multi user chat, no proper long list scrolling, no apis for status and lockscreen | 14:27 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | etc | 14:27 |
| cehteh | there are plenty of workarounds for that each with its own problems, but the biggest is that whatever you hack, its not anytihng offical and may conflict with a way some future software update will solve the problem | 14:27 |
| cehteh | M4rtinK_tohkbd: yes that too | 14:28 |
| cehteh | these things could be done by the community, and will greatly enhance the user expericence | 14:28 |
| ggabriel | i'm not sure that a significant amount of people stopped bying the jolla because of all that | 14:28 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | of course its not free | 14:28 |
| Raim | cehteh: I agree that work could be contributed by the community, but rather in small-sized tasks (maybe even as a bounty hunt) | 14:29 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | and you cant command contributors what to do | 14:29 |
| cehteh | ggabriel: it give some unpolished unfinished impression, i heared from few people who brought it but dont use it because it lacks so much | 14:29 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | but you can still get a lot of usefull stuff | 14:29 |
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| Raim | cehteh: the main thing is that people scratch their own itch and it may not be what the maintainer of the component want | 14:29 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | not to mention open ecomming slowly the default | 14:30 |
| cehteh | Raim: bounty would cost money, i wont do that. just some discussion *withhin* the comunity how things could be solved, some ok from jolla.. and when done it will become integrated asap | 14:30 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | I know a lot of people who lost interest in Sailfsh once they lerned the OS is not fully open | 14:30 |
| ggabriel | cehteh: ok, but they bought it | 14:30 |
| cehteh | ggabriel: and then spread bad words | 14:31 |
| ggabriel | a lot of people buy iphones and don't use them too | 14:31 |
| cehteh | one sold .. 5 chances for selling lost | 14:31 |
| ggabriel | same with iphones | 14:31 |
| cehteh | yes .. thats the problem .. jolla must not compare/compete with apple or whatever else | 14:31 |
| cehteh | apple runs forward, with closed source, appshops, itunes, iwhatever .. everyone runs blindly behind | 14:32 |
| ggabriel | so, jolla tried to tackle a lot of the ui issues in sfos 2.0 by making it look more like ios/android | 14:32 |
| ggabriel | so there you go | 14:32 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | you cant compete by imitating them | 14:33 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | no one has enough money | 14:34 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | and it alienates zour fans | 14:34 |
| mornfall | wasn't apple nearly bankrupt before the first iPod? | 14:34 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | they want your distict product, not an apple clone | 14:34 |
| cehteh | jolla could leave a lot of ongoing fixes and improvements to the community, if they opensourced the stuff, then they could focus on real development, maybe porting on other android devices. i know a lot people who *would* pay for licensing sfos for their old android phone | 14:34 |
| cehteh | i would do for my wifes note2 | 14:34 |
| mornfall | cehteh: you keep talking about a community... as if there was one | 14:35 |
| Raim | cehteh: why would I need to buy a license if it is open-source? | 14:35 |
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| cehteh | because some people prefer precompiled packaged stuff with support | 14:36 |
| mornfall | Raim: redhat happens to be doing rather well | 14:36 |
| TemeV | cehteh: how much is the "lot of people" who would pay for it? | 14:36 |
| Raim | mornfall: but that's a different business | 14:37 |
| mornfall | Raim: yes, but 'who would buy if it's oss' isn't an argument | 14:37 |
| Raim | mornfall: support on third-party hardware will be a problem. the original manufacturer of the phone will not provide you any and Jolla will not be able to give everyone support. | 14:37 |
| louisdk | I experienced this while trying to install pactmanager through Warehouse on my friends Jolla Phone: http://i.imgur.com/ckW05IZ.png - I don't think Jollas servers is down since the Store still works. | 14:37 |
| cehteh | how should i know .. but jolla already showcased sfos on andorid devices, would be nice just to go the last step to make it offical | 14:38 |
| Raim | mornfall: for Redhat, that's no problem because you buy your server hardware without OS anyway and the support liability is solved | 14:38 |
| sakustar | Nicd-: any recommendations on cargo pants? my last pair lasted like a month or two? :( | 14:38 |
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| TemeV | cehteh: if there would be 20k people paying for it, 20€ each it would get like 4-5 devs for a month | 14:39 |
| sakustar | ripstop was alright but the seams came apart | 14:39 |
| TemeV | oh wait, i missed a zero there | 14:39 |
| mornfall | Raim: well, a phone manufacturer could see some value in an ongoing subscription model... you pay $$$ and ship them a bunch of devices and jolla takes care of keeping your customer systems up to date | 14:39 |
| TemeV | you'd get handful of developers for a year | 14:40 |
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| TemeV | or something like that | 14:40 |
| TemeV | it aint really a business | 14:40 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | mornfall: that would be my idea how it should work | 14:40 |
| mornfall | nonetheless, for all I can tell, they haven't been able to sell this to anyone | 14:40 |
| Raim | mornfall: a phone manufacturer you say? one of these that did not want to license Sailfish OS should take a new business model? | 14:41 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | mornfall: they would get security updates, feature updates & sustanability | 14:41 |
| cehteh | anyway .. for me it looks like jolla cant compete because progress is too slow, because they are underpowered, because they try to do everything by themself and dont trust the community enouhg and dont open up enough | 14:41 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | they could advertise "ongoing updates for at least 2 years due to Jolla partnership" | 14:42 |
| cehteh | i have my device since monday now and it still feels like there are a lot functionality regressions compared to the n900, and that are user impressions, not die hard developer things about lacking apis etc | 14:42 |
| mornfall | Raim: well, redhat customers are often internal service departments... who answer to their internal customers; it's not really that different from the phone business | 14:43 |
| Scelt | http://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/Jolla_press_release_20112015_FINAL_61.pdf | 14:43 |
| mornfall | Raim: Apple uses that model much more so than Android though | 14:43 |
| mornfall | the post-sale expenses they have are reflected in the selling price, too | 14:44 |
| Scelt | PRESS RELEASE: http://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/Jolla_press_release_20112015_FINAL_61.pdf | 14:44 |
| Raim | mornfall: not really, I can't install OS X on other hardware... | 14:44 |
| ced117 | yep it's out | 14:44 |
| mornfall | Raim: so what? they don't sell OSX | 14:45 |
| Raim | mornfall: if I take my broken smartphone somewhere and tell them I modified the OS, they will simply refuse to do anything with it. that's the current state of mobile devices. | 14:45 |
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| Raim | mornfall: you void your warranty by making changes to the software of your phone. that is not the case for a PC or laptop. | 14:46 |
| mornfall | I have no idea what you are talking about. | 14:46 |
| mornfall | Or how it is related to business models... | 14:47 |
| Raim | mornfall: support liability. you can't just sell binary software blobs and be done. | 14:47 |
| mornfall | "can't"? | 14:48 |
| mornfall | it is what many android vendors do | 14:48 |
| cehteh | you can sell hardware which runs free software, done | 14:48 |
| Raim | mornfall: now the customer comes to you and complains that the camera is broken. you assess it's a hardware problem and send them to the phone manufacturer. they will tell you, your OS is not supported and you will not get any replacement. | 14:48 |
| Raim | mornfall: why would I as a customer take this risk? | 14:48 |
| mornfall | I still have no idea what you are talking about... | 14:48 |
| mornfall | Never mind. | 14:49 |
| cehteh | hey .. i am really pissed that the jolla camera cant (easily) store photos on the sdcard .. let me sue jolla plz :D | 14:49 |
| yestoall | Raim: not if it's a Fairphone or the like | 14:50 |
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| HtheB | does someone has a new F5 button form e? | 14:51 |
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| Raim | yestoall: that's very unique as they offer self-repair. but only when you are out of warranty already. | 14:57 |
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| coderus | HtheB: http://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/Jolla_press_release_20112015_FINAL_61.pdf | 15:00 |
| coderus | no need for f5 | 15:00 |
| ArtVandalae | I wish there was more information :( | 15:02 |
| ggabriel | there's enough information there | 15:03 |
| the_mgt | hoho, marry xmas... layoffs in december is one of the fugliest things to do | 15:07 |
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| HtheB | coderus: thanks | 15:10 |
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| tadzik | the_mgt: I'd argue that it's better than not getting paid in the month after christmas eve | 15:11 |
| ced117 | well, maybe they dont have a choice :-/ but as it's written in the press release, it's "only" a temporarily layoff | 15:11 |
| cehteh | at least they hope so .. but.. | 15:12 |
| Coolgeek | I don't think they are doing this with a smile on their face | 15:12 |
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| ced117 | right | 15:12 |
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| Coolgeek | hope it will be for the better | 15:13 |
| tbr | cehteh: well it's the finnish YT instrument, a glorified hire and fire simplifier. In this case it means that there is a possibility to resume the working contracts, but after some deadline the contracts terminate automatically, IIRC. | 15:13 |
| tbr | or rather ced117 | 15:13 |
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| ced117 | didn't know that, thanks for the info tbr | 15:14 |
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| Nicd- | oh damn, what news | 15:23 |
| ggabriel | they still need the extra financing tho :P | 15:23 |
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| Milo- | still no blog post. | 15:32 |
| cehteh | redhat should just buy jolla and show them how to do it :D | 15:32 |
| tbr | Milo-: there's a press release though | 15:32 |
| Scelt | Milo-: http://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/Jolla_press_release_20112015_FINAL_61.pdf | 15:33 |
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| ggabriel | cehteh: you mean by having ibm, hp, oracle and friends contributing code? | 15:34 |
| roboro | I wonder what this means for those of us waiting for tablets... I guess no time soon :( | 15:34 |
| Milo- | nothing about tablets :/ | 15:34 |
| lainwir3d | wait... what ? I thought everyone already received their tablet ? | 15:35 |
| cehteh | anyone buyed the tablet because he 'really' needed one? | 15:35 |
| Milo- | lainwir3d only 200 of them has been shipped. | 15:35 |
| ggabriel | not me :P | 15:35 |
| lainwir3d | haha | 15:35 |
| ggabriel | lainwir3d: you're trolling :P | 15:35 |
| lainwir3d | sorry :P | 15:35 |
| cehteh | i mean tablets look to me like toy gadgets mostly | 15:35 |
| ggabriel | too soon, too | 15:35 |
| cehteh | maybe i am wrong .. but | 15:36 |
| lainwir3d | cehteh: well, I didn't needed one but now that I got it I admit I'm using it quite a lot | 15:36 |
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| Yaniel | a tablet would have been very handy in language classes | 15:36 |
| chem|st | Yaniel: a table... not a tablet ;) | 15:37 |
| cehteh | yes its all about would could should .. but there is no pressing need for a tablet, its just an luxory accesoire | 15:37 |
| chem|st | cehteh: +1 | 15:37 |
| cehteh | hi chem|st | 15:37 |
| Lieke_ | just like a smartphone | 15:37 |
| chem|st | o/ | 15:37 |
| cehteh | yeah we could use dumbphones :D | 15:38 |
| cehteh | or drums | 15:38 |
| chem|st | and out... (dog wants to get wet again!) | 15:38 |
| lainwir3d | hehe | 15:38 |
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| cehteh | well i admit maybe i am wrong, but i dont see that much value in a tablet, having one would be nice, but there are to few real uses where i sufficiently benefit from one | 15:39 |
| lainwir3d | true | 15:39 |
| sakustar | ebooks | 15:39 |
| lainwir3d | it's kind of "optionnal" | 15:39 |
| djselbeck | Especially with this lack of applications ;) | 15:39 |
| cehteh | considering its expensive to develop, expensive to maintain, expensive on everything | 15:39 |
| cehteh | putting the companys future on the success of a tablett is a bit risky | 15:40 |
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| cehteh | imo they should try to improve the phone, maybe a new one with better specs (2G ram, usa bands, updated processor) and focus more on the softtware to make it outstanding | 15:41 |
| djselbeck | cehteh: I agree | 15:42 |
| sakustar | and a decent camera would help :) | 15:42 |
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| cehteh | and hardware keyboard :D | 15:42 |
| sakustar | yes | 15:42 |
| chem|st | cehteh: that is what they actually did, the tablet is an HK effort, what they did to SFOS was to get it ready for branding and licensing | 15:43 |
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| cehteh | chem|st: i think this approach was wrong, they tried to reach for the high fruit and struggling if not even failing now | 15:43 |
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| cehteh | all they need to do for feeding 100 people is selling good hard and software | 15:44 |
| chem|st | cehteh: you mean they should never aim for licensing sfos to manufacturers but have their own devices instead? | 15:44 |
| chem|st | the hardware R&D is expensive and in their scale dead fish | 15:45 |
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| cehteh | they could port and licensed it to end users themself | 15:45 |
| djselbeck | Licensing would be fine if there would be a release. Even ubuntu has multiple phones out | 15:45 |
| cehteh | yes, but high fruit and optional, esp in the current state | 15:45 |
| cehteh | no one would license a OS which vendors future is uncertain | 15:46 |
| cehteh | (and while the OS still feels like a beta release) | 15:46 |
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| cehteh | i am a bit disappointed. there are so much cool things and usability is imo much better than android, but there are also still so much ugly corners | 15:48 |
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| djselbeck | cehteh: The browser ;)? | 15:48 |
| cehteh | nah simple things | 15:49 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | I dont think the browser is that bad | 15:49 |
| djselbeck | I think the browser is one of the biggest problems because if your OS lacks application support you should at least have a good browser | 15:49 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | the core is solid | 15:49 |
| rigo | is it really that bad at jolla? | 15:49 |
| cehteh | i already saied .. that the camera cant save photos on the sdcard | 15:49 |
| djselbeck | But very outdated | 15:49 |
| cehteh | that could be solved by one developer in one afternoon | 15:49 |
| djselbeck | Then the question is why no one did it? | 15:50 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | could have more features in the UI but that's it | 15:50 |
| cehteh | the thing is many peole DID it .. published hacks to make it work on tjc .... | 15:50 |
| djselbeck | Also on the tablet the browser almosts everytime closes it self because of memory problems | 15:50 |
| ggabriel | browser works better than any mobile browser on android fwiw | 15:50 |
| djselbeck | ggabriel: not really | 15:51 |
| ggabriel | sometimes ff doesn't even start | 15:51 |
| cehteh | just evaluated few solutions, decide on one, bless it offical and integrate it | 15:51 |
| lainwir3d | I think the OOM killer is badly tuned.. | 15:51 |
| ggabriel | so i don't want ui gimmicks if it can't even start | 15:51 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | cehteh: thats not the only such mystery | 15:51 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | (btw, I reported the firs camera-no-using-card question long ago ;-) ) | 15:52 |
| cehteh | browser is ok so far, lacks a lot things from a full fledge browser but then having a ported firefox/fennec/chromium might be the better choice | 15:52 |
| djselbeck | I don't think the UI of the browser is the problem. I think the core is. It is based on firefox 31 and this is really old | 15:52 |
| eugenio | they are porting it to 38, though | 15:52 |
| ggabriel | djselbeck: again, works much better tan any other mobile browser i know for the sites i use, but ymmv | 15:52 |
| ggabriel | also, it's open source, so go and fix it.... | 15:52 |
| djselbeck | Yeah thought about it but currently I don't have that much time. | 15:53 |
| cehteh | yes ... if the browser is open source, why does jolla waste money on it improving it on their own, let the community do it, only watch and assist when there is no progress | 15:54 |
| djselbeck | If only they would do it with other applications. | 15:54 |
| cehteh | dito mail client | 15:54 |
| djselbeck | I would've improved the musicplayer long ago if the sources would've been available | 15:54 |
| cehteh | i installed k9mail because the buildin mail client is unusable for me | 15:54 |
| cehteh | well all this things are rather external an not core components | 15:55 |
| cehteh | they should focus on the core | 15:55 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | I remember someone posting a patch for the callendar ui | 15:56 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | on together, on the ml | 15:56 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | it fixed somwthing quite serious even | 15:56 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | only to be totally ignored | 15:56 |
| cehteh | yeah | 15:56 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | that was pretty rude | 15:57 |
| cehteh | that sux, doesnt help jolla, doesnt motivate any community | 15:57 |
| cehteh | so work to do .. bbl | 15:58 |
| sakustar | so jolla only needs some funding? why isnt the government doing anything | 15:59 |
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| Stskeeps | M4rtinK_tohkbd: it's a bit hard to accept anything outside a CLA, as qt also doesn't accept patches through their BZ.. | 16:01 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | refugee crisis and trying to cut spending elsewhere | 16:01 |
| sakustar | oh yeah we live depression now | 16:01 |
| sakustar | no new soy factories for a while :( | 16:01 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | sure, but if I remember correctly ther was *zero* response | 16:02 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | not even "sorry we don't accept patches" or "this is what zou need to do" | 16:02 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | I'm sure he would do that - if somene replied | 16:03 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | so correction - there was some response | 16:08 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | but more or less "we have no process for this and would rather implement this ourselves" | 16:10 |
| ggabriel | there's an faq for that too | 16:10 |
| ggabriel | which pretty much says the same | 16:10 |
| ggabriel | smells of IP etc | 16:11 |
| ggabriel | lawyers are overkill sometimes | 16:11 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | ant latest version of the patch from jan 2015 rotting on list with no reply | 16:11 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | so when you say "people don't contribute" | 16:12 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | this might be one of the reasons | 16:12 |
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| ggabriel | well, for closed things I understand Jolla's position | 16:14 |
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| ggabriel | for open stuff (e.g., pending pull requests in browser) it's maintenance overhead, but that happens on a lot of projects | 16:15 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2015-January/005534.html | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | M4rtinK_tohkbd: well, no real defense for that | 16:15 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2014-November/005208.html | 16:15 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | threads in question | 16:16 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | well stuff happens | 16:17 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | but thing like this could and should be avoided | 16:17 |
| ggabriel | well, there is an approach to open sourcing stuff that Stskeeps explained in the meeting | 16:18 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | and, IMHO, its now more important given the current situation | 16:18 |
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| Stskeeps | naturally debt restructuring makes it even more complicated | 16:18 |
| ggabriel | but that won't fix certain things such as delays accepting code and so oin | 16:18 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | especially if that proposal comes through | 16:18 |
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| Tofe | ggabriel: at least the guy who fixed the issue can run the fixed version on its phone ;) | 16:19 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | note that even "your code is ad and you should feel bad" is a valid response to contributions | 16:19 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | as long as technically valid | 16:19 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | but any response is better than no response | 16:20 |
| ggabriel | M4rtinK_tohkbd: been reading too much linus lately? :P | 16:20 |
| Tofe | ggabriel: :) | 16:20 |
| ggabriel | Tofe: well, that goes without question... all hail qt/qml | 16:20 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | also you dont need to take v1 | 16:21 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | patches quite often go through many revisions before they are merged | 16:22 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | and the end result is then usually much better than the original patch | 16:22 |
| rigo | :(( | 16:23 |
| eugenio | heh, our favourite troll strikes again: https://twitter.com/jollatablets | 16:23 |
| ggabriel | haha | 16:25 |
| Tofe | one-sided openess ;) | 16:25 |
| eugenio | (probably related to the wrong use of twitter mentions by Saarnio: https://twitter.com/AnttiSaarnio/status/667729790518951936) | 16:25 |
| ggabriel | is knowing how to use twitter a respectable skill these days? :P | 16:26 |
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| eugenio | I hope, otherwise I wasted 7 years of my life :) | 16:29 |
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| Stskeeps | i use a mac, with macos x. | 16:31 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:31 |
| * Tofe faints | 16:31 | |
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| eugenio | that hurt | 16:31 |
| Tegu | hackintosh might be interesting to try | 16:31 |
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| Stskeeps | sshing into a 12 core 64gb linux server | 16:32 |
| pdanek | Stskeeps: that will be in phone in 20 years... | 16:33 |
| pdanek | ehm | 16:34 |
| pdanek | in 10 | 16:34 |
| Tofe | pdanek: actually 12 cores are for next year, Mediatek is already ready | 16:34 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | the Monav routing data for modRana are generated on a 48 core machine with 256 GB of RAM | 16:37 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | kindly possile due to the NLP lab of the local university :) | 16:37 |
| ggabriel | let's see whose is bigger :P | 16:37 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | and Power 8 can doe even crazier setups | 16:38 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | *do | 16:38 |
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| Tegu | /676/ | 16:40 |
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| elfio | so jolla will live a bit more, right? | 16:42 |
| elfio | I've just read the press statement | 16:42 |
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| Milo- | [A | 17:05 |
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| pdanek | Do you believe Tizen can be the next big Linux thing in Mobile? | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | bwhaaha | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:30 |
| pdanek | Samsung is developing high-end Tizen devices, so why wouldn't it? | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | did you try one? | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:31 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | its still 2.x, right ? ;-) | 17:31 |
| pdanek | nope | 17:31 |
| pdanek | Stskeeps: did you? | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | M4rtinK_tohkbd: riht | 17:32 |
| Stskeeps | pdanek: over several times | 17:32 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | and even Rasterman already quit, right ? | 17:32 |
| Stskeeps | he quit?! | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | that i didn't know | 17:33 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | checking | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | according to linkedin still there | 17:35 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | must have been some noise | 17:35 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | didn't know he worked for Rec Hat before | 17:36 |
| Stskeeps | why would you quit a executive position that you have, due to them being stockholm syndromed to your technology? | 17:36 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:36 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | oh god that dailywtf thread | 17:37 |
| Stskeeps | ah.. yes | 17:37 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | I blame both sides though | 17:37 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | bunch of trolls/kiddies vs hardcore old school nerd-way | 17:38 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | for that thread | 17:38 |
| Stskeeps | i heard rumours that it stopped all tizen productivity in different units for several days until it eventually was blocked at the firewall | 17:39 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | lol | 17:41 |
| rubdos | So, what can the community (and especially a local IT consultant with a Jolla phone) do for Jolla to get them back on track? | 17:41 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | also, tizen and productivity in the same sentance! | 17:41 |
| rubdos | Every bit helps, and I'd love to do my bit. Or byte. | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | rubdos: we have another meeting on thursday | 17:41 |
| rubdos | That's a week :o | 17:42 |
| rubdos | And will that meeting be here/online, or will we receive another press-release-pdf? | 17:42 |
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| rubdos | About a year ago - at the kickstarter of the tablets, I tried to convince a client of mine to buy the developer pack - or even more. I had a plan with them. It's a pity that client decided to stop communicating with me --" | 17:44 |
| rubdos | indiegogo* | 17:44 |
| HtheB | so, i've read the statement... but what about the tablets? | 17:45 |
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| pdanek | http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_is_allegedly_working_on_highend_tizen_phones_due_next_year-news-15059.php | 17:57 |
| rubdos | But... that's samsung. | 17:58 |
| pdanek | Read the comments. | 17:59 |
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| pdanek | "... I had greater hope on jolla. but jolla already stoped the development :(" | 17:59 |
| pdanek | That's how recent Jolla's news can be perceived by public. | 18:00 |
| SfietKonstantinW | pdanek: well | 18:00 |
| rubdos | Don't know about you, but I had my last update some weeks ago, not months ago like iOS or Android. | 18:00 |
| SfietKonstantinW | let's see how it goes | 18:00 |
| rubdos | But yes, that's how I perceive it too. | 18:00 |
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| rubdos | "Jolla goes under" is about the only thing on my twitter, except for Paris-stuff. | 18:00 |
| rubdos | I'd love to hear something else, because for me, that's the end of smartphones. | 18:01 |
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| Aciid | neo900 is around the corner | 18:01 |
| Aciid | welcome back physical qwerty | 18:02 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | ehm | 18:02 |
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| pdanek | Neo900 can't run Android apps, can it? | 18:03 |
| rubdos | neo900 doesn't look like a all-in experience, nor as a competitor to Android/iOS. | 18:03 |
| rubdos | pdanek, not that we neeeed android apps... :p | 18:03 |
| pdanek | of course we do | 18:03 |
| Aciid | I dont think theres nothing preventing youn installing something else or something as a middleware on it | 18:03 |
| pdanek | else you can't rely on your phone as single travel device | 18:03 |
| pdanek | and need 2nd phone or laptop | 18:03 |
| Aciid | the hardware is capable | 18:03 |
| kimmoli | i can live w/o android apps until next MOT | 18:04 |
| rubdos | MOT? | 18:04 |
| kimmoli | katsastus | 18:04 |
| kimmoli | i need to use OBD to clear fault codes ;) | 18:04 |
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| rubdos | oh, vehicle test? :P | 18:05 |
| Aciid | I just use my laptop | 18:05 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | afaik there are multiple efforts to make an open Android runtime | 18:05 |
| pdanek | Ubuntu is making one? | 18:05 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | hopefully one of them matures eniugh to be usable | 18:06 |
| pdanek | What about KDE Plasma Mobile? | 18:06 |
| pdanek | Is the development quick? | 18:06 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | shaslik and the sailfish community effort for example | 18:06 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | i have seen it | 18:06 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | buggy as hell | 18:06 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | but definitely interesting | 18:07 |
| pdanek | In what way better than Sailfish? | 18:07 |
| rubdos | So, this channel has given up on SailfishOS nad Jolla? :P | 18:07 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | just note its just a de/shell, not a full distro | 18:07 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | at least thats the current plan afaik | 18:07 |
| rubdos | damn | 18:07 |
| pdanek | yes, Ubuntu Phone based OS with KDE on top | 18:07 |
| pdanek | that's enough | 18:07 |
| pdanek | Ubuntu Phone is great! except the UI :D | 18:08 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | not sure how thats supposed to work in the moile sphere though | 18:08 |
| rubdos | Then use a Jolla? :P | 18:08 |
| pdanek | enough apps, better security than Sailfish, large community and soon they could get android support | 18:08 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | ubuntu based just because blue systems people only know ubuntu :p | 18:08 |
| pdanek | rubdos: nobody has given up on Jolla, we all have Jolla here and hoping for bright future | 18:09 |
| locusf | theres this guy who plans on doing a live system switching between cyanogenmod and sailfish | 18:09 |
| rubdos | locusf, wtf, sounds terrible :P | 18:09 |
| pdanek | M4rtinK: blue systems people? | 18:09 |
| rubdos | But, Ubuntu phone is something I'll probably never approve of. Because "Ubuntu" | 18:09 |
| locusf | rubdos: well run a app and then switch back to sailfish | 18:09 |
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| locusf | its a much more viable plan than shashlik | 18:10 |
| locusf | aquaris is locked but meizu mx5 dev edition is not | 18:10 |
| pdanek | rubdos: what's wrong about Ubuntu? | 18:10 |
| Stskeeps | let's try a discussion tonight | 18:10 |
| Stskeeps | Alternative history: What if Jolla never existed? - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1488802#post1488802 | 18:11 |
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| locusf | so in theory there is a distant possibility to run sfos on mx5 | 18:11 |
| pdanek | locusf: without android support | 18:11 |
| HtheB | without android support = fail | 18:11 |
| HtheB | many apps (for example banking apps) are only ios and android | 18:11 |
| HtheB | this is why i loved Jolla | 18:12 |
| pdanek | HtheB: android support isn't open, so any community port of Sailfish will be lacking it | 18:12 |
| HtheB | pdanek: not open doesn't mean it can't be achieved | 18:12 |
| HtheB | some good skilled coder can do what myriad done | 18:12 |
| rubdos | pdanek, it's ubuntu, I have bad feelings when I hear that name. | 18:12 |
| HtheB | they even showed that android apps can run on Harmattan as well | 18:12 |
| pp_ | Tizen! | 18:12 |
| * pp_ runs | 18:12 | |
| * HtheB uses hookshot on pp_ | 18:13 | |
| pdanek | locusf: where did you see MX5 dev edition? Don't you mean MX4 Ubuntu edition? | 18:13 |
| locusf | pdanek: the system switch should work there too | 18:13 |
| locusf | pdanek: yes theres too many f the | 18:14 |
| dirkvl | stskeeps: http://grief.com/the-five-stages-of-grief/ | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | dirkvl: oh don't giraffe me | 18:14 |
| locusf | pdanek: mx4 dev edition that is | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | dirkvl: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_Z3lmidmrY | 18:14 |
| dirkvl | ´what if´, you seem to be at step 3 already | 18:14 |
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| dirkvl | giraffe you? :p | 18:14 |
| rubdos | Stskeeps, I'd have chosen electronics engineering instead of electronics with computer science, in hope I'd get enough people around me to get a working smartphone with Arch Linux. I'd fail. | 18:14 |
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| dirkvl | that is totally unrealistic, mammels dont drown in quicksand | 18:15 |
| pdanek | I might buy MX4 just for fun | 18:15 |
| dirkvl | stskeeps: this is a big ´what if´: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YN7ZGA-swo | 18:17 |
| dirkvl | maybe even worse than latest news | 18:17 |
| rubdos | Why Africa though? | 18:20 |
| rubdos | gamma flashes are cool too! | 18:21 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | Stskeeps: would have probably given more atention to n900, n9, bb10 and Android ports | 18:23 |
| pdanek | bb10? | 18:24 |
| pdanek | bb10 is proprietary | 18:24 |
| pdanek | can't do ports | 18:24 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | Stskeeps: maybe would get more involved in the Maemo community matters or the Fedlet project (running Fedora on x86 tablets) | 18:24 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | app development | 18:24 |
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| Stskeeps | dirkvl_terrible_: wth :P | 18:24 |
| HtheB | [19:20] <rubdos> Why Africa though? << haha just what I thought! | 18:24 |
| HtheB | racists! | 18:25 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | proprietary & kinda dead :P | 18:25 |
| HtheB | haha | 18:25 |
| rubdos | HtheB indeed! | 18:25 |
| pdanek | dead or not, BB10 is still the best mobile OS out there | 18:25 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | hahaha | 18:26 |
| HtheB | pdanek: yet they are now moving to android as well | 18:26 |
| HtheB | :( | 18:26 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | good maybe | 18:26 |
| pdanek | nobody said they're moving to android | 18:26 |
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| pdanek | they just released Android phone | 18:26 |
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| pp_ | would have been nice to see meltemi running (tho that's on really low-end hardware) | 18:26 |
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| HtheB | the second android bb is just around the corner | 18:26 |
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| pdanek | and CEO stated that if required, they could move to Android completely | 18:26 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | um 2 android phones they did disagree | 18:26 |
| pdanek | but nothing is decided | 18:27 |
| pdanek | so you can't judge like that,..... then we would have to say that Sailfish is dead too | 18:27 |
| HtheB | I remember that the CEO stated that apps are the problem | 18:27 |
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| HtheB | so they were forced to make a BB device | 18:27 |
| HtheB | you know, I dont care what OS is on it | 18:27 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | yeah, giant hamsters could invade at any time, changing everything! ;) | 18:27 |
| HtheB | as long as it's QWERTY and can run a couple apps on it | 18:27 |
| pdanek | BB10 has better Android support than Jolla does | 18:28 |
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| HtheB | and by qwerty, i mean N950 like | 18:28 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | maybe they should not have fired their developper support people | 18:28 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | and not ignore requests from developers ? ;) | 18:28 |
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| pdanek | If Sailfish would have to die eventually. | 18:30 |
| pdanek | Or... completely lose commercial support. | 18:30 |
| pdanek | Did anyone think about making Android ROM with some kind of Sailfish UI/gestures on top? | 18:30 |
| pdanek | And doing business same as Cyanogen does? | 18:30 |
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| pdanek | That would solve app problem, some security issues and also much easier to maintain I guess. | 18:32 |
| pdanek | In the end, Sailfish is all about UI for the "big crowd" | 18:32 |
| pdanek | big crowd doesn't care about Wayland under the hood | 18:32 |
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| rubdos | small crowd does | 18:32 |
| Tegu | but.. multitasking? (except when OOM decides it's time to bash) | 18:32 |
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| pdanek | Android already has switching between apps, just make them visible on home screen same as on Sailfish. | 18:33 |
| pdanek | And apps which require it, have background daemon enabled in Android, so you can kind of multitask | 18:33 |
| rubdos | that's switching, not multitasking :) | 18:33 |
| pdanek | yes | 18:33 |
| pdanek | whatever you call it | 18:34 |
| pdanek | it works | 18:34 |
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| pdanek | I would rather switch and be productive, than multitask and getting half of my apps killed by OOM | 18:34 |
| rubdos | It works, and we don't like it. | 18:34 |
| rubdos | Android requires about twice the RAM and CPU as sailfish does. | 18:34 |
| pdanek | switching remembers the state of app.... which menu are you in, etc... so from user point of view, it doesn't matter | 18:35 |
| pdanek | yes, and android has twice the RAM... you can buy Android phone with twice ram for half price of Jolla | 18:35 |
| pdanek | :) | 18:35 |
| rubdos | I know... I have to do android develpment for an assignment... | 18:35 |
| rubdos | I'd love to buy that phone, with SFOS :) | 18:35 |
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| rubdos | 4 or even 8 gigs of ram, octacore CPU, in my pocket. With SfOS | 18:36 |
| pdanek | that might never happen | 18:36 |
| pdanek | so instead of giving up and moving over to Cyanogen | 18:36 |
| pdanek | Sailfish UI on top of Android is interesting | 18:36 |
| pdanek | such project could be sustainable | 18:36 |
| Lieke_ | if jolla dies i'll just move back to my n900 or get a dumbphone until something good comes along again | 18:37 |
| rubdos | I'd first like to hear that from Jolla, in an official statement, before I ever buy Android. | 18:37 |
| rubdos | Lieke_, indeed | 18:37 |
| rubdos | I'll buy a 3310 | 18:37 |
| rubdos | or ask my N9 back from my brother. He wants a "modern" Android, so that'd fit. | 18:38 |
| pdanek | you're lucky | 18:38 |
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| pdanek | I can't imagine my life without some essential android apps | 18:38 |
| pdanek | I don't wanna live for my phone | 18:38 |
| pdanek | but let my phone make my life easier | 18:39 |
| rubdos | I use my working hours tracker, browser, my mails. That's about it. | 18:39 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | while the UI is nice | 18:39 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | I think the platform itself is more important | 18:39 |
| rubdos | Makes me think, is the guy who build working hours tracker in here? I'll give him 0.1% of the money I have registered in it. Because thank you. | 18:39 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | qt, multitasking, normal linux like | 18:40 |
| rubdos | or let's say 1% | 18:40 |
| HtheB | isnt there a sailfish launcher already on android? | 18:40 |
| pdanek | Android has QT | 18:40 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | you don't get that with an Android skin | 18:40 |
| HtheB | https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.jolla.launcher.stella | 18:40 |
| HtheB | I should install this on my Jolla | 18:41 |
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| HtheB | <insert Xzibit Yo Dawg meme here> | 18:42 |
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| disharmonic | So looks like the real reason behind the tablet delays of late is probably funding :( | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | it certainly doesn't help, no | 19:42 |
| coderus | HtheB: i have stella ambience for sailfish :) | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | but the problems we've described, we've actually had, despite how crazy they may sound | 19:42 |
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| disharmonic | Stskeeps: i don't doubt that. Well, hopefully there is a way out of this. | 19:50 |
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| HtheB | [20:42] <coderus> HtheB: i have stella ambience for sailfish :) < so do I :) | 20:36 |
| HtheB | pdanek wanted to have sailfish on top of Andorid | 20:36 |
| HtheB | Android* | 20:36 |
| HtheB | and I pointed him to use the Jolla launcher :P | 20:36 |
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| Stskeeps | disharmonic: yup, hope that too | 20:38 |
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