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| Nicd- | meh, I like 2.0 more than 1.x | 06:05 |
|---|---|---|
| Nicd- | whoops, I answered again to an hours old discussion | 06:05 |
| Nicd- | this keeps happening | 06:06 |
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| Hartzi | does it matter? | 06:07 |
| Nicd- | guess it makes people confused | 06:09 |
| lpotter | thats what irc is for :) | 06:09 |
| lpotter | it took me a while to get used to the 1.0 -> 2.0 change | 06:10 |
| ninnnu | I still haven't bothered to update | 06:10 |
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| Hartzi | Nicd-: normal people yes ;> | 06:11 |
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| tiwake | havent gotten an email yet from jolla | 06:23 |
| tiwake | sadface | 06:23 |
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| Armadillo | I like the idea of the more prominent roles of ambiances, but I would really appreciate a scheduling to change them automatically, e.g. from normal to silenced at 10pm and from silenced to work at 7am | 06:41 |
| Armadillo | I often forget to switch to silenced at night and some spam mails waken me up in the middle of the night, that's not funny :/ | 06:42 |
| Hartzi | Armadillo: have you tried the situations app? | 06:44 |
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| Armadillo | sure | 06:44 |
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| Armadillo | but I had to many ooms in the last time which always killed situations | 06:45 |
| Armadillo | it's a workaround but not a good solution | 06:45 |
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| narchie | really like the idea of jolla tablet | 07:07 |
| narchie | but i would really appreciate paying VAT | 07:07 |
| Hartzi | strange. Someone really wants to pay taxes ;D | 07:15 |
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| entil | muh tablet was on the way to dubai before I got the shipping confirmation from jolla :D | 07:38 |
| Stskeeps | getting it? tweet about it! | 07:38 |
| entil | because dhl.fi wants my social security number to report my sorry ass to customs and I asked them if they see an ETA and told me where it's going; the tracking page still spoke of kowloon | 07:38 |
| entil | I barely ever tweet, maybe receiving the tablet is a tweetworthy event | 07:39 |
| Stskeeps | it is :) | 07:39 |
| entil | he said it might just make it tomorrow | 07:39 |
| entil | if it lands in dubai around five o'clock and gets more or less immediately shipped off to here | 07:40 |
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| entil | customs should be an easy deal if all they wanted was my number | 07:40 |
| Stskeeps | and your firstborn? | 07:40 |
| entil | afaik I don't have one | 07:41 |
| entil | but the way taxes and pensions work they'll get him when he turns 18 | 07:42 |
| entil | enjoy your childhood, son... | 07:42 |
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| Nicd- | I ordered a MacBook last month, it went from China to South Korea, then Kazakhstan, Germany, Denmark and then finally Finland | 07:47 |
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| citylight2 | I just saw that marc dillon left | 08:36 |
| _inte_ | citylight2: yeah some time ago | 08:37 |
| _inte_ | my tablet is shipping :) | 08:37 |
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| citylight2 | as I was out of touch - are they finally offering batteries to the jolla? | 08:38 |
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| _inte_ | citylight2: from time to time they do | 08:44 |
| _inte_ | but i heard they might even be out of phones at present | 08:44 |
| tbr | someone found some close enough replacements though | 08:44 |
| citylight2 | tbr: got a link for it? | 08:45 |
| the_mgt | look at tjc | 08:45 |
| the_mgt | together.jolla.com | 08:46 |
| citylight2 | so wait, did I miss something big here? is jolla going under? | 08:46 |
| tbr | they split their hardware division recently and a couple high profile people apparently left | 08:49 |
| citylight2 | so is it over? | 08:50 |
| tbr | who knows | 08:51 |
| tbr | they have been re-orging and changing direction all the time | 08:51 |
| citylight2 | I would have expected them to relase a newer version by now... | 08:52 |
| tbr | I'll just be happy once I have the tablet I paid for a year ago. Not even sure I'll run sailfish on it | 08:52 |
| stephg | \o/ got a shipping email | 08:54 |
| citylight2 | can anyone please just tell me what went wrong? | 08:56 |
| yestoall | oh another shipping tablet - cool! | 08:56 |
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| ggabriel | citylight2: in not so many words, not enough people bought the phone so priorities change | 08:57 |
| yestoall | citylight2: too much with too few | 08:57 |
| ggabriel | stephg: i'm jealous (for you and others) | 08:57 |
| tbr | phones are hard, film at 11 | 08:58 |
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| _inte_ | I quite dont get why, if Jolla has these issues selling their phones and stuff, why did they put so much efforts in wracking SFOS (2.0 is mess) instead of comming up with fresh hardware and new (I mean, really new) ideas? | 09:05 |
| _inte_ | I cant really recommend a sf2.0 phone to anyone | 09:05 |
| _inte_ | and, sad enough, i dare it would be possible to get 1.7 on the tablet | 09:05 |
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| chriadam | _inte_: you must understand that your opinion of SFOS2.0 is not shared by everyone. in fact, the vast majority of feedback we had (through focus groups and beta testing originally, and now through care tickets and emails etc) was positive rather than negative about the UI changes. | 09:08 |
| chriadam | what's more, the changes were necessary in order to have a UI which scaled correctly across form-factors and screen resolutions. SFOS 1.x UI was great for phone ux but simply did not suit other form factors | 09:08 |
| chriadam | one of the key value propositions of SFOS as a platform is that it scales (now). we obviously cannot maintain two entirely separate codebases, (or N where N is the number of form factors / device profiles) due to manpower issues. | 09:09 |
| chriadam | so now we have one codebase, which scales, and is beautiful. | 09:10 |
| _inte_ | chriadam: i can hardly imaging *anyone* is happy with the now missing cover actions | 09:10 |
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| Tofe | chriadam: I like 2.0, but I regret the choice made for cover actions. Was the majority of the feedback positive there too? | 09:10 |
| chriadam | _inte_: I'm not suggesting that every single change was perfect. we of course plan to iterate things, and cover actions is one of the areas we need to iterate on. | 09:11 |
| _inte_ | chriadam: I know its not represantive, but I guess it's pretty clear: https://together.jolla.com/question/113838/poll-bring-back-old-cover-actions-swipes/ | 09:11 |
| * tbr reserves judgement (and phone upgrade) until 2.0 is out of beta and his tablet arrives. It could be anything from awesome to "new coke" | 09:11 | |
| the_mgt | the cover actions were a nescessary trade off for the carousel thing on the tablet I guess | 09:11 |
| chriadam | but that's ... details. I hope you understand where I'm coming from when I talk about scaling the OS to multiple formfactors, and why the old UI could never do that. | 09:11 |
| _inte_ | the_mgt: untrue | 09:11 |
| the_mgt | I would wish they came back for the phone, but I am alive and well without them | 09:11 |
| _inte_ | the_mgt: put the caroussel on the edges and keep the pulls for the coveractions | 09:11 |
| _inte_ | in 1.0, ambience selection could be reached from home through the edges | 09:12 |
| _inte_ | no reason to change that | 09:12 |
| the_mgt | and edges on a tablet are very ergonomical | 09:12 |
| phlixi_ | i dont get the argument "it is needed becauses of caroussel", it was possible before that... swype (starting OUTSIDE THE DISPLAY) does caroussel, strting ON THE COVER does coveraction | 09:12 |
| _inte_ | they could be an optin | 09:12 |
| TemeV | tbr: Is the "new coke" good or bad? | 09:12 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: or 'done with coke'? | 09:12 |
| _inte_ | phlixi_: exactely | 09:12 |
| _inte_ | TemeV: I like Red Bull Coke | 09:13 |
| Nicd- | _inte_: I'm much happier with SF 2.0 than 1.x | 09:13 |
| the_mgt | phlixi_: the thing is, horizontal edge swipes a neat on a portrait phone but suck on a landscape tablet | 09:13 |
| Nicd- | don't think your opinion is everyone's opinion | 09:13 |
| the_mgt | it annoys the shit out of me on ios9 | 09:13 |
| _inte_ | Nicd-: well seems like half the people are | 09:13 |
| tbr | TemeV: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke | 09:13 |
| phlixi_ | also the animation time to get to an unlocked phone is ridicoulous, but besides that, i am totaly fine... we are getting back up to there where the n9 was in terms of ui | 09:13 |
| TemeV | tbr: ok, I missed the reference :) | 09:14 |
| _inte_ | Nicd-: this poll i made is not representive at all, but it seems like many people miss the gestures: https://together.jolla.com/question/113827/poll-bring-back-old-gestures-and-cover-actions-or-keep-the-new-interface/ | 09:14 |
| _inte_ | about 50:50 | 09:14 |
| the_mgt | the thing is, in SF2.0 I do not get so easily "lost" in the ui when mentally overloaded. it is simplet, yet powerfull enough. I could show this to a friend or expect my girlfriend to use my phone. with sf1.0 only hardcore nerds would be able to navigate properly | 09:14 |
| Tofe | _inte_: it seems you make statistics in an peculiar way :) Most of the users aren't on IRC | 09:14 |
| chriadam | like I said, there are multiple areas which we _know_ need polish and iterating. we're not suggesting that SFOS2.0 UI as-is is perfect. of course not. BUT what it is, is a scalable base from which we can iterate and improve, while meeting the business needs long-term (ie, scaling) | 09:15 |
| _inte_ | Tofe maybe jolla should conduct an official poll and let the users decide if they want cover actions or not | 09:15 |
| minimec | _inte_: Do we have to start over with this? I mean you made your point clear for days now... Please! | 09:15 |
| chriadam | I mean, point at ANY bit of SFOS and you can say "this is not perfect" - of course, we are improving everything, as we have resources to do so, and prioritising stuff. | 09:15 |
| _inte_ | the buttons suck big time and the vast majority thinks like me. | 09:15 |
| Nicd- | _inte_: 100 people is nothing and your poll is really stupid and not indicative of anything | 09:15 |
| _inte_ | minimec: no dont wanted to start over | 09:16 |
| phlixi_ | the_mgt: maybe there is some responsivenes neded (responsive as in websites) where behaviour changes once a certain size is reached. it is just to small to have more than 4 controls horizontaly. right know on the phone with 3 covers side by side you have 6 buttons, tzhose are just to small | 09:16 |
| the_mgt | the "egde wipe from top" on the home screen to get back to the unlock screen is what i miss. alternatively, the pulley menue with the three preloaded apps would be nice | 09:16 |
| _inte_ | actually im just defending my opinion | 09:16 |
| SfietKonstantinW | chriadam: not yet evening for you ? :) | 09:16 |
| SfietKonstantinW | o/ | 09:16 |
| _inte_ | phlixi_: thats why jolla is limiting cover actions to only one action, which is another stupid thing | 09:16 |
| SfietKonstantinW | _inte_: that's not the case | 09:16 |
| SfietKonstantinW | see tweetian :) | 09:16 |
| the_mgt | and I want my partnerspace now, the horizontal landscape is so useless. having the ambiance screen on both sides in sf1.0 was a waste, now there is only events view. I'd like to pin some apps there | 09:17 |
| yestoall | is SF2 really only about cover actions? it may be a step back for *some*, but there is more to the overall user experience. i like it. | 09:17 |
| chriadam | _inte_: your opinion is valid, and you're right that there are plenty of things in the UI which need polishing. buttons are one. cover actions are another. covers in general are needing overhaul. we know these things. :-) precisely what we end up implementing remains to be seen, as we find time and resources to spend on these areas. | 09:17 |
| SfietKonstantinW | oh and about cover actions, I find it very easy to tap twablet refresh before entering in app | 09:17 |
| SfietKonstantinW | it saves a swipe | 09:17 |
| _inte_ | yestoall: it is a step back for the vast majority. Period. | 09:17 |
| Armadillo | I really like the new buttons :) | 09:17 |
| chriadam | SfietKonstantinW: definitely evening ;-) working late on some caldav issues :-/ | 09:17 |
| Tofe | chriadam: the thing is, the community doesn't have any clue what points are considered needing convergence and what points are considered already decided; this leads to unnecessary long discussion just to be nearly sure the point will be considered | 09:18 |
| _inte_ | SfietKonstantinW: tiny fingers? I always hit the buttons by mistake and im happy i found pull-down-covers in the patches | 09:18 |
| yestoall | inte: for an unknown percentage. | 09:18 |
| _inte_ | Tofe: true | 09:18 |
| chriadam | Tofe: our communication definitely needs improvement. trust me, there is no-one who agrees with you more than I do, on this point. | 09:19 |
| SfietKonstantinW | chriadam: caldav still haunting you ? :( | 09:19 |
| _inte_ | yestoall: conduct an official poll | 09:19 |
| the_mgt | I have never accidently hit a button on a cover, for the protocol | 09:19 |
| phlixi_ | chriadam: i am fine with all the "we know we need to do that" the problem is, that a lot of things you probably know you should do something nothing happens.... for example the second most voted item on tjc, nothing happened in 2 years. and it is not some miracle thing with free turn by turn navigation and perfect maps ... it is about copy & paste in browser... | 09:19 |
| _inte_ | cover-actions vs. cover buttons | 09:19 |
| SfietKonstantinW | chriadam: thought about writing a mock caldav server using (eg) nodejs ? | 09:19 |
| _inte_ | if sfos is people-powered | 09:19 |
| _inte_ | that would be the way to go | 09:19 |
| chriadam | phlixi_: copy-paste is an interesting one ;-) | 09:19 |
| SfietKonstantinW | with all kind of bad behaviour, and test the caldav implementation on it ? | 09:19 |
| chriadam | phlixi_: I can't speak to why that one hasn't been prioritised more, it's a question for product management. | 09:20 |
| chriadam | phlixi_: but in most other cases, high votes has resulted in higher priority | 09:20 |
| _inte_ | phlixi_: there was a patch for copy and oaste but its not wokring in 1.9 sadly :( | 09:20 |
| phlixi_ | _inte_: copy&paste is something the system has to provide (where as wheather and maps are fine to be apps) | 09:21 |
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| _inte_ | dont know the details behind it, but i know it can be make working by a patch | 09:21 |
| _inte_ | the_mgt: im using my thumbs and my hands are not to small | 09:23 |
| _inte_ | i always hit them and im so happy about this pulldown covers patch | 09:23 |
| chriadam | SfietKonstantinW: a good suite of unit tests would definitely help. writing a node-js server probably isn't necessary, we could just call the various parse functions directly with xml blob arguments, and ensure that the result is expected | 09:23 |
| the_mgt | _inte_: "You are holding it wrong" - Steve Jobs | 09:23 |
| _inte_ | hehe :) | 09:24 |
| _inte_ | antennagate | 09:24 |
| chriadam | SfietKonstantinW: but we've been implementing caldav/carddav "reactively" and haven't had hte time to properly engineer those plugins. I don't see that changing in short term. | 09:24 |
| the_mgt | more like buttongate | 09:24 |
| _inte_ | jep | 09:25 |
| SfietKonstantinW | chriadam: ha | 09:25 |
| SfietKonstantinW | well, a nodejs server can help for "integration" tests | 09:25 |
| SfietKonstantinW | when you need to show something in your ui, to be retrieved etc, from "real code" | 09:25 |
| SfietKonstantinW | even if the server sends you lorem imspu garbage | 09:26 |
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| chriadam | SfietKonstantinW: right, I agree in principle that it's a great idea. | 09:29 |
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| SfietKonstantinW | chriadam: I'm doing this to fix render issues for my new twitter app :) | 09:33 |
| SfietKonstantinW | since twitter API is rate limited | 09:33 |
| chriadam | makes sense - is your dummy server impl going to be opensource by any chance? ;-) | 09:35 |
| SfietKonstantinW | chriadam: well | 09:36 |
| SfietKonstantinW | for Twitter, it is dead simple | 09:36 |
| SfietKonstantinW | https://github.com/SfietKonstantin/harbour-twablet/blob/master/tools/mockserver/main.js | 09:37 |
| SfietKonstantinW | I'm not doing *anything* Twitter does. Just replying plain garbadge | 09:37 |
| SfietKonstantinW | but you can do something a bit more elaborated very easily | 09:37 |
| SfietKonstantinW | doing something stateful | 09:37 |
| SfietKonstantinW | sending wrong ids | 09:38 |
| SfietKonstantinW | I have chosen node because it is dead simple | 09:38 |
| SfietKonstantinW | you get lot of stuff for free | 09:38 |
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| SfietKonstantinW | chriadam: sadly, I need to have some hardcoding https://github.com/SfietKonstantin/harbour-twablet/blob/master/src/lib/private/twitterqueryutil.cpp#L45 | 09:40 |
| chriadam | mm. I know webOS have a bunch of test-case responses for various caldav/carddav requests. I'd have to check the licensing of their stuff. if it's permissible license, then I could plug those in fairly simply | 09:40 |
| SfietKonstantinW | but for you it might be even simpler: you can have configure a dummy caldav pointing to some test server | 09:40 |
| SfietKonstantinW | ha | 09:40 |
| SfietKonstantinW | could be nice too | 09:40 |
| chriadam | thanks for the link and idea, maybe next week if I find a spare moment I'll have a go at that | 09:41 |
| SfietKonstantinW | chriadam: I might check how caldav works too | 09:42 |
| SfietKonstantinW | and do a prototype | 09:42 |
| SfietKonstantinW | just out of curiosity, is the nemo caldav stuff easily extractible ? | 09:42 |
| chriadam | caldav plugin is, unfortunately, much messier than carddav plugin | 09:42 |
| SfietKonstantinW | I mean, building on a desktop for example | 09:42 |
| SfietKonstantinW | without nemo libs | 09:42 |
| chriadam | should be fairly simple | 09:42 |
| SfietKonstantinW | if so, you can build integration tests that can be run on desktop, instead of deploying and testing | 09:43 |
| SfietKonstantinW | that's what I'm doing most of the time | 09:43 |
| chriadam | except for buteo, not sure about that... | 09:43 |
| SfietKonstantinW | well | 09:43 |
| SfietKonstantinW | buteo is for syncing | 09:43 |
| _inte_ | i quite dont get how to look up my tablet shipping number | 09:43 |
| SfietKonstantinW | you can abstract that part I guess | 09:43 |
| SfietKonstantinW | run the syncing manually instead of automatically | 09:43 |
| chriadam | SfietKonstantinW: yes, the entrypoints etc | 09:43 |
| _inte_ | it say i should select tnt/dpd nl on the tracking page but these services are not applicable there | 09:43 |
| chriadam | aside from that it should just be qtnetwork+qstring+qjson, and then mkcal/kcalcore | 09:44 |
| SfietKonstantinW | chriadam: if you test against a known location (like where your mock server runs, likely on localhost:8080), you do not need entry points | 09:44 |
| SfietKonstantinW | hum | 09:44 |
| SfietKonstantinW | mkcal / kcalcore can be built indeed | 09:44 |
| SfietKonstantinW | I need to check | 09:44 |
| chriadam | yep | 09:44 |
| SfietKonstantinW | maybe we can share some knowledge | 09:44 |
| chriadam | hopefully it can be. not sure how hard the extrication surgery would be ;-) | 09:44 |
| SfietKonstantinW | I gues syou have a lot of bugs, like cases hard to reproduce. A mock might help | 09:44 |
| SfietKonstantinW | chriadam: if it is too hard, I can build a big blob of static lib instead of building it using standard project files | 09:45 |
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| _inte_ | it would also be nice to have swipes to remove notifications | 09:51 |
| _inte_ | these long press buttons are anoying | 09:52 |
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| citylight2 | so the tablet killed the phones in jolla | 10:05 |
| citylight2 | too bad | 10:05 |
| Stskeeps | heh, by far | 10:05 |
| ggabriel | you can still buy the phone... | 10:05 |
| chriadam | I fail to see how you reached that conclusion | 10:05 |
| ggabriel | citylight2: https://shop.jolla.com/eu_en/cat-jolla.html?___from_store=eu_en | 10:05 |
| citylight2 | I fear that the jolla phone has grown old, and as the company developed a tablet, no new phone will be coming soon | 10:06 |
| citylight2 | then one should compare the features of a current phone with the jolla , and choose to move on | 10:07 |
| ggabriel | but has it really? have you used a modern phone these days? | 10:07 |
| tbr | they always wanted to license their OS to other phone manufacturers, the phone was a showcase | 10:07 |
| ggabriel | like any other android or ios? | 10:07 |
| chriadam | every software update we've released, has been released for the Jolla Phone also | 10:08 |
| tbr | and so far the phone has gotten an exceptional number of updates, including now the process of a major ui rewrite | 10:08 |
| citylight2 | I am also sad that the battery option did not prove it self. what is the use of going against the stream of allowing us to change batteries, if none such exist for buying? | 10:08 |
| tbr | you have been pointed to TJC | 10:08 |
| citylight2 | yes, this is not a battary sold by jolla | 10:09 |
| * SfietKonstantinW wait for aquafishes | 10:10 | |
| ggabriel | citylight2: I do have 2 batteries, so you probably missed the boat | 10:10 |
| citylight2 | and jolla did not recommend any other manufacturer , so if I use such batteries I may just kill my phone | 10:10 |
| ggabriel | you can't expect an infinite amount of everything from a small company | 10:10 |
| Yaniel | the fact that you could miss it is a huge problem in the first place | 10:10 |
| ggabriel | citylight2: buy another phone? it comes with a battery..... | 10:10 |
| eugenio | well, the boat was truly too small | 10:10 |
| Yaniel | I only heard about it after the fact | 10:10 |
| ggabriel | Yaniel: it was publicly announced, multiple times, highly expected by the people who voted that tjc | 10:12 |
| citylight2 | as jolla, does send me emails, it could have told me it has batteries in stock, as it did advertise other accessories | 10:12 |
| ggabriel | it was hard to miss unless you were in a mission in a submarine | 10:12 |
| Nicd- | ggabriel: publicly announced... where? | 10:12 |
| Nicd- | normal users do not follow IRC or TJC | 10:12 |
| ggabriel | Nicd-: twitter among other places | 10:12 |
| ggabriel | Nicd-: normal users don't need a second battery? | 10:12 |
| Nicd- | they do after the first battery is dead after a couple of years | 10:12 |
| citylight2 | ggabriel: no email about it was ever sent | 10:12 |
| Yaniel | I don't have twitter and I was in the army | 10:13 |
| Yaniel | I guess that is close enough to a submarine mission | 10:13 |
| ggabriel | no internet in the army? | 10:13 |
| citylight2 | tjc, is not the best way to advice jolla owners. so you email in regrad to updates.. right? | 10:13 |
| ggabriel | citylight2: tjc does send emails, and it as announced there as well | 10:13 |
| ggabriel | citylight2: that's your view | 10:13 |
| * ggabriel in a fighting mood today :P | 10:14 | |
| citylight2 | so I should join an ongoing thread now to get a battery? | 10:14 |
| Nicd- | but I agree with Yaniel, the problem was exactly that there was a boat to miss | 10:14 |
| citylight2 | I will | 10:14 |
| ggabriel | citylight2: I think you missed the boat | 10:14 |
| Nicd- | there should have been batteries from the start. or at least a big batch so that they don't run out | 10:14 |
| ggabriel | so you can open another tjc and see how many others iwth interest you get | 10:14 |
| Nicd- | otherwise marketing a removable battery is false advertising IMO | 10:15 |
| ggabriel | Nicd-: i'd personally not expect that from a small company but hey | 10:15 |
| kryca | or just endorse a 3rd party manufacturer | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | Nicd-: you can remove the battery.. | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:15 |
| ggabriel | you mean false advertising like "this changes everthing. again" ? | 10:15 |
| Nicd- | Stskeeps: but I cannot replace it. it's the implication | 10:15 |
| Nicd- | ggabriel: that is something everyone knows is just talk | 10:15 |
| Nokius_work | :D | 10:15 |
| Nicd- | stating a removable battery implies that you can buy a new one | 10:15 |
| citylight2 | All I ment to say was this, | 10:16 |
| ggabriel | Nicd-: is it? i ordered an iphone 4 expecting things to change | 10:16 |
| Nicd- | NOT that there will be a battery for sale for a week if you pay close attention to their twitter | 10:16 |
| ggabriel | is the battery such a big deal anyway? Mine is >2yr old and is still working | 10:16 |
| citylight2 | my phone aged and ts battery will soon run out. as I had a boat to miss, I will look to buy a new one, and jolla does not offer a new one but the old one | 10:16 |
| ggabriel | my n9's is even older and still works | 10:17 |
| Nicd- | ggabriel: many people already have depleted batteries. mine will probably not last a day a year from now | 10:17 |
| ggabriel | citylight2: so buy another jolla? | 10:17 |
| ggabriel | Nicd-: so you refer to bsatteries going from 100% to ~80% | 10:17 |
| citylight2 | but the comapny seems to go to a tablet direction | 10:17 |
| ggabriel | is that 20% such a big deal? | 10:17 |
| citylight2 | no more phones... | 10:17 |
| Nicd- | ggabriel: they won't stop at 80 % | 10:17 |
| ggabriel | Nicd-: i have a number of lipo batteries that are way older than 4 years and still work decently | 10:18 |
| ggabriel | i agree with you if they are 10 years old | 10:18 |
| ggabriel | citylight2: there will be more phones, soon. stay tuned. in the mesantime, you can buy the jolla :D | 10:18 |
| ggabriel | i'm getting a second one btw | 10:19 |
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| tbr | btw: as there is a bit of a contact issue, it's good to clean both sides of the battery contacts from time to time to avoid that. | 10:19 |
| Nicd- | it depends on the use | 10:19 |
| citylight2 | I don't believe new phones will come. But I do like my jolla. | 10:19 |
| Nicd- | ggabriel: I have a number of li-ion batteries that do not work at all anymore. personal experience does not prove anything | 10:20 |
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| ggabriel | Nicd-: but you aren't saying that your jolla battery is dead | 10:21 |
| ggabriel | look, I have 2 jolla batteries | 10:21 |
| ggabriel | one is a year older than the other one | 10:21 |
| ggabriel | I interchange them and there's no noticeable difference in terms of life | 10:21 |
| citylight2 | ggabriel: can you please show me the link to the battery thread on tjc? | 10:22 |
| Nicd- | ggabriel: when it does not last a day with one charge any more, it is dead to me | 10:22 |
| ggabriel | and the only time I carry the extra battery around is when I go camping and so on | 10:22 |
| ggabriel | Nicd-: depends on the usage | 10:22 |
| ggabriel | switch off android and so on and you'll see it last | 10:22 |
| Nicd- | of course it does. but the point is that it has happened and it will happen more and more | 10:22 |
| ggabriel | citylight2: I haven't got it... search? | 10:22 |
| Nicd- | you can't tell people to "buy a new phone" or "well don't use your phone like that" | 10:22 |
| citylight2 | 789 questions... | 10:23 |
| Nicd- | not after you imply to them that there will be replacement batteries | 10:23 |
| citylight2 | I do use the gps a lot | 10:23 |
| ggabriel | Nicd-: I'm not telling, I'm suggesting. I'll buy a new phone because my screen is shattered. I can't buy the part as I could if it were an iphone, but then I know I am dealing with a small company | 10:23 |
| ggabriel | just accept that fact | 10:23 |
| Nicd- | you can't weasel your way out of everything with "small company lol" | 10:23 |
| Yaniel | "yolo" | 10:24 |
| ggabriel | that's my view at least - I knew from day 1 what I was getting into | 10:24 |
| Nicd- | Jolla was sold in stores in Finland, no indication that it is a small company | 10:24 |
| ggabriel | you seem like you haven't set yourselves the right expectations | 10:24 |
| ggabriel | ok, I have news for you then :) | 10:24 |
| Nicd- | *I* knew what it was | 10:24 |
| Nicd- | whereas my brother who bought the phone from a store had no idea | 10:25 |
| Nicd- | and I would bet many many regular people | 10:25 |
| * tbr has a few bridges to sell | 10:25 | |
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| ggabriel | Nicd-: and such is life | 10:26 |
| Nicd- | personally I'm fine with the huge problems my phone and the OS has had. but you give that to a regular customer and they will throw it away and not come back. that's why you don't imply to them that there are replacement batteries and then never release any | 10:26 |
| Yaniel | still, advertising the phone with a replaceable battery and then not providing any | 10:27 |
| Nicd- | it's not about me, it's about Jolla's image to a regular customer | 10:27 |
| Yaniel | while technically not cheating, it's highly unprofessional IMHO | 10:27 |
| Nicd- | who is not a geek | 10:27 |
| citylight2 | right | 10:27 |
| ggabriel | about jolla's image to regular customers: guess why the sfos 2.0 ui is so different | 10:27 |
| Nicd- | that's why I'm positive about SFOS 2.0 | 10:28 |
| Yaniel | and this professionalism is one thing they could be standing out with | 10:28 |
| ggabriel | i'll remind people about this: "this changes everything. again" | 10:30 |
| ggabriel | oh, and the speed of the phone in the tv ad may be different to real life. doh | 10:30 |
| citylight2 | well, I tried seeking the battery thread in order to open a new one, did not find it | 10:30 |
| citylight2 | I will be glad if someone can help me with it? | 10:31 |
| Nicd- | ggabriel: there are many kinds of ad statements. some of them are vague and the viewer is expected to know that it's not about any specific feature. just like you can say "best phone ever" or "changes everything". but you can't say "has feature X" or strongly imply that there are replacement batteries if there are not | 10:31 |
| Nicd- | probably they haven't broken any actual rules because it was an implication but it's really bad for customer image | 10:32 |
| Nicd- | whereas not changing *everything* is understandable to a customer because it's so vague | 10:32 |
| Lieke_ | citylight2: https://together.jolla.com/question/69955/official-announcement-batteries-available-tuesday-9th-of-december-2014-1200-utc/ | 10:36 |
| Yaniel | so uh.. they ran out in a week? | 10:37 |
| Nicd- | they ran out in an hour apparently | 10:37 |
| Yaniel | well... | 10:37 |
| citylight2 | lieke_:thanks | 10:38 |
| citylight2 | seems like I good deal for jolla then, offer batteries to gain $$ | 10:42 |
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| _inte_ | Nicd-: you think sf1.0 was for geeks? | 11:00 |
| _inte_ | I mean, the entire phone is for geeks, since nobody except for some linux-loving geeks is going to order a phone with virtually no app-support for quite some money on the internet if he could get an android phone for free from his network provider | 11:01 |
| _inte_ | for sure its not the interface hindering sales | 11:01 |
| _inte_ | its the sales channel | 11:01 |
| _inte_ | Nicd-: but why would a customer throw away sf1.0 but not sf2.0. I'd rather the other way round, and i AM a customer :) | 11:03 |
| entil | http://jollafr.org/la-batterie-du-htc-desire-310-est-compatible-avec-le-jolla/ anyone tried those? | 11:04 |
| Stskeeps | _inte_: it is, in fact, the interface hindering sales. if you want a totally linux loving geeks phone, get a openmoko. | 11:04 |
| entil | :D openmoko <3 | 11:04 |
| tbr | or a nekro900 | 11:05 |
| entil | there are aspects of the jolla phone, like the calendar, that mean you have to love the phone unconditionally and not make a big deal about it to others | 11:05 |
| Stskeeps | i've seen in person several times, sf2.0 in mwc this year vs sf1.0 the first year | 11:05 |
| entil | but the openmoko was just horrid :D | 11:05 |
| Stskeeps | sf1.0 - total user rejection, people moved on, some saw potential but not many | 11:05 |
| Stskeeps | sf2.0 - everybody figured out how to use the ui quickly and loved it | 11:05 |
| _inte_ | entil: whats wrong with the calendar? | 11:05 |
| _inte_ | Stskeeps: I dont believe you | 11:06 |
| Nicd- | hahaha :D | 11:06 |
| Nicd- | maybe you should | 11:06 |
| entil | _inte_: if I want to have a new calendar for when my girlfriend's away, how do I add that calendar? if I want to add someone's birthday, why is the only interface for that the contacts? | 11:06 |
| Stskeeps | _inte_: i can't give you anything but first hand experience. | 11:06 |
| _inte_ | even my 70+ mom learned how to handle the gestures in like 5min | 11:06 |
| Stskeeps | 5 minutes is too high | 11:06 |
| entil | my ex learned it by doing the tutorial | 11:06 |
| Stskeeps | 30 seconds and seeing confusion in people's eyes = a lost customer | 11:06 |
| Nicd- | _inte_: my wife couldn't figure it out, neither could my mom | 11:07 |
| _inte_ | ok then maybe jolla should maybe a demo mode to attract customers | 11:07 |
| _inte_ | like ms did for the lumias | 11:07 |
| entil | so essentially th ex, the most untechnical person on the planet, turned the phone on and got into it | 11:07 |
| _inte_ | and leave the gestures where they where | 11:07 |
| _inte_ | i can say, for my side, as long as the gestures wont come back im going to sell my jolla stuff | 11:08 |
| _inte_ | id rather go for a nexus then | 11:08 |
| entil | reinventing old habits is always hard; this is closer to the first phones that came out that had actual UIs apart from the old spindials or whatever people had in the 90s | 11:08 |
| Stskeeps | _inte_: may be worth selling to somebody who loves it for what it is, then | 11:08 |
| _inte_ | and play with e.g. kde mobile | 11:08 |
| _inte_ | Stskeeps: i dare people will | 11:08 |
| _inte_ | its to average | 11:08 |
| entil | doesn't make it worse, it just means you can't demo it properly in 30 seconds because it's a new concept space | 11:08 |
| _inte_ | why not stay with android then | 11:08 |
| entil | (it might, actually, make it better!) | 11:08 |
| _inte_ | its so ridiculous | 11:09 |
| _inte_ | oh, people dont get the idea of the gestures instantly | 11:09 |
| _inte_ | oh, we cant afford enough employees to explain | 11:09 |
| entil | you don't have to get them instantly, you have to get them after the tutorial :P | 11:09 |
| Stskeeps | entil: you can sell sf2.0 in 30 seconds | 11:09 |
| _inte_ | oh, we now its better but we drop it | 11:09 |
| entil | Stskeeps: why? it's not _that_ different | 11:09 |
| _inte_ | the worst thing is | 11:09 |
| entil | Stskeeps: is it because people remember the n9 and the superior events screen we now lovably have in sailfish? | 11:09 |
| _inte_ | in real live, a potential customer newer touches a jolla phone for testing | 11:10 |
| Stskeeps | entil: these people never saw the n9 | 11:10 |
| _inte_ | either you order it online | 11:10 |
| _inte_ | and then you will test it longer than like 3 min | 11:10 |
| entil | Stskeeps: what's the reason, then? the lack of edge swipes (or pulls or whatever they're called on the edges) | 11:10 |
| _inte_ | or you dont get it | 11:10 |
| Stskeeps | entil: it's really a combination of things. top swipe was people's muscle memory for settings | 11:10 |
| Stskeeps | entil: people got confused and had no idea how to return to home | 11:10 |
| _inte_ | Stskeeps: you cant sell sf2.0 because its not for sale in the shops | 11:10 |
| Stskeeps | _inte_: oh shut up will you? | 11:11 |
| _inte_ | Stskeeps: who cares | 11:11 |
| entil | _inte_: he already mentioned a conference, bro | 11:11 |
| chriadam | entil: the horizontal layout of different content screens, coupled with vertical layout of options access, is a far closer match for people's intuitive mental navigation models | 11:11 |
| Stskeeps | _inte_: i've had to sell this first and foremost to mobile operators which in turn sell phones, tablets | 11:11 |
| kryca | this discussion is leading nowehere | 11:11 |
| _inte_ | well, a conference once a year, great | 11:11 |
| entil | Stskeeps: that top-swipe-for-settings, is it an androidism? | 11:11 |
| _inte_ | Stskeeps: ok then put a dau mode for demos as an alternative, but dont take our gestures away | 11:11 |
| entil | the only thing it reminds me of is my beloved top menu that's gone ;P | 11:12 |
| chriadam | entil: the fact that this navigation model works for both phones and tablets is important, too, since we need SFOS to scale across form factors with a single codebase. | 11:12 |
| kryca | maybe that's why Jobs said: don't do focus groups | 11:12 |
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| _inte_ | mobile operators wont sell jollas anyway since they sell wp and android | 11:12 |
| _inte_ | you cant even get blackberry everywhere | 11:12 |
| Stskeeps | if you can't sell to a person from a mobile operator in 30 seconds, the person you will teach how to sell a jolla phone in the shops won't be able to do it either | 11:12 |
| _inte_ | the only way to sell a jolla to a mobile operator is through its unlikelyness, not by making it an android clone | 11:12 |
| chriadam | actually, that's categorically wrong | 11:13 |
| _inte_ | Stskeeps: mobile operators are only interested in profit. thus they sell iphones, android phones with brandings and wp for the bonus | 11:13 |
| entil | I wish _inte_ was right but you got to choose between making sales and having the better product, because people = shit | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | but in the end: without sustainability, any fantastic geeky linux phone you'll have is not going to continue being lovely, and go out of business | 11:14 |
| Stskeeps | you have to make sales | 11:14 |
| _inte_ | entil: demomode? even the samsung edge features a demo mode, with non functional edges | 11:14 |
| kryca | stskeeps: right on | 11:14 |
| entil | inte: I'm completely ok with demo modes | 11:14 |
| entil | and the tutorial as well | 11:14 |
| _inte_ | entil: solution for the sales | 11:14 |
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| _inte_ | or maybe an advanced mode with gestures, a dau mode for the idiots | 11:15 |
| entil | not sure, salespeople = shit as well | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not against a device that slowly teaches you to do more advanced things, fwiw | 11:15 |
| _inte_ | i dont want an idiot phone | 11:15 |
| entil | we are the special brand of people who actually care about the product | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | but sf2.0 was needed in order to be sustainable | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | and it'll evolve | 11:15 |
| Scelt | _inte_: are you a negative one, huh? starting from your nick... | 11:15 |
| _inte_ | maybe sf2.0 is good on tablets | 11:15 |
| entil | Stskeeps: is there a >0 possibility of having cover-action-swipes return as a config setting some day? | 11:15 |
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| entil | Stskeeps: and the top menu in other screens than lock screen | 11:15 |
| _inte_ | ill downgrade my phone though once i find the time | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | entil: i'm hoping the thing will be open source sooner or later so people can adjust their devices to be fitting their own minds, since your phone is part of it | 11:16 |
| _inte_ | entil: not to forget the four quick access buttons! | 11:16 |
| _inte_ | or maybe kde mobile | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | _inte_: i saw kde mobile the other day and it made me about as happy as openmoko's OS | 11:16 |
| entil | Stskeeps: well, sure, but it's always best if it comes from the vendor - if I wanted (quoting samuel l jackson in jurassic park) "hacker shit" I could as well look into patches already | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | entil: in addition to that.. the mobile phone is still one you share and show to others | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | and that drives people's interest in it too | 11:17 |
| entil | Stskeeps: but if you do get it open source, are these kinds of patches things you'd be interested in merging? | 11:18 |
| chriadam | _inte_: once again, your opinion of SFOS2.0 on phone is just a subjective opinion, and in the minority (from the feedback I have seen - admittedly my sample size doesn't cover every user, but it's not limited to just some TJC posts, for sure). you might not believe that, but it's true. | 11:18 |
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| Stskeeps | entil: patches has to be seen in a wide view - do they break the whole experience? | 11:18 |
| entil | if they're all patched up and very very unlike, what you end up demoing is "this is how I made mine? how do you want to make yours?" "err.. I don't need to patch it up if I buy an android :S" | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | android users patch up their devices like hell. | 11:18 |
| entil | some do, sure | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | homescreens, folders, different intents | 11:19 |
| entil | I'm a big fan of user settings, though, especially in something that's branded as being the different kid on the block (maybe why I use e19 though it also has things that require unconditional love) | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | i like settings to a certain amount | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | settings are a development burden | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | and maintainability | 11:20 |
| entil | so if you'd say something like a top pulldown menu breaks the UX, but a patch can be merged into sfos that puts in settings, I'd say merge | 11:20 |
| chriadam | except that we then have two divergent UXes to test ;-) | 11:20 |
| entil | *that puts the menu in settings | 11:21 |
| entil | my response to that is not so much | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | but anyway: sf2.0 ui is evolving, like sf1.0 ui did | 11:21 |
| entil | because if it says [ADVANCED] on it, people who go there will know what they're getting into and if they feel the UX is worse they'll unconfigure it | 11:21 |
| Tegu | What? SAILFISHOS is evolving! | 11:22 |
| * Stskeeps ponders where that article on change was.. | 11:22 | |
| entil | Stskeeps: actually a more concrete UX thing would be having the mru cover at the top-left, I really fucking miss that feature, though I understand it might upset some natives, and IMO that should be a user setting in the settings, not a 3rd party patch | 11:23 |
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| entil | Stskeeps: and for testing two UX's, naah, as long as the cover rearrangement isn't actually broken, the UX is the unlike user's preference | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | entil: right, but if you only have bandwidth to maintain the non-advanced ui and keep it sanely tested | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | we're still a small operation fwiw | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | i think patches are somewhat healthy | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | webos was patched to bits as well | 11:24 |
| entil | +1 for the phrasing "somewhat" healthy :D yes, proving ground | 11:24 |
| entil | it kinda sucks that some of the most common ones of those can't be pull requests | 11:25 |
| entil | or the patch manager actually called "advanced settings" in the settings ui, with patches that are not patches because they ship with the os updates | 11:25 |
| eugenio | used webOS for three years, can confirm | 11:25 |
| * eugenio doesn't actually miss the swipes on the cover actions | 11:26 | |
| Stskeeps | entil: we fwiw do start to adjust things a tiny bit with for example sailfish utilites | 11:27 |
| Stskeeps | +i | 11:27 |
| Helle | oh, also anyone know if you can, once I do switch to the new SF UI, get the old default themes back ? because I know the Jolla people like change, but they just feel familiar now | 11:28 |
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| entil | Stskeeps: yeah, nice that things are going the proper direction | 11:28 |
| cos- | would any sailor at Tampere like to visit Tampere Hacklab's sauna night tomorrow and show the tablet? looks like i'm not receiving mine before next week. towels & nerdy audience provided. | 11:29 |
| entil | one piece of criticism I got from someone is that the community-or-whatever edition of android is more open and free than sailfish because of the UI, but the proper answer probably is that you don't have time to deal with pull requests just yet, as you're still evolving? | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | cybette: ^ tampere | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | entil: that's true and a valid criticism | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | still evolving | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | entil: bad idea to oss while you've been doing a major upheaval of UI | 11:32 |
| entil | yeah, completely understand | 11:32 |
| Stskeeps | now it's there and a lot of easier things can be done | 11:32 |
| cybette | cos-: i have something on tomorrow evening. when's your next meetup? | 11:32 |
| Stskeeps | but i don't want to promise anything until it shows up on people's git checkouts | 11:32 |
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| entil | I have a patched version of enlightenment's media player, rage, and hadn't upgraded since forever... I'd touched upon some pretty nasty code that was fortunately made better, but it took me almost an hour to get the functionality back... can only imagine that for a lot of pending UI patches | 11:33 |
| entil | it'd consume all the time in the universe | 11:33 |
| cos- | cybette: open nights are every tuesday, but we're still constructing the new lab after moving so it's not ready for presentations yet. | 11:33 |
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| cos- | cybette: looks like this atm: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tamperehacklab/ | 11:35 |
| eugenio | new update! https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-important-news-helm/ | 11:36 |
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| eugenio | heck, I'll get my tablet in December at best | 11:39 |
| kryca | me too :-) | 11:39 |
| Mikaela | which is also release time of Windows 10 Mobile | 11:39 |
| cybette | cos-: ah cool, i've been to the old lab couple times | 11:39 |
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| cybette | cos-: i don't need space for presentation, i can just show up where you hang out and we can play with the tablet (although i only have a proto, not the production device) | 11:41 |
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| cos- | cybette: ok. can you come next tuesday evening? 19.00 or so? | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | cybette: maybe ask raine for the one he demoed with in qtws? | 11:43 |
| Stskeeps | (s) | 11:43 |
| cos- | i've been planning to give presentation of "sailfish hello world" at lab later this year | 11:43 |
| entil | just over an hour, or maybe within two hours, and my tablet should touch ground in dubai | 11:44 |
| entil | dundunduuuu | 11:44 |
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| cybette | cos-: i'll check my schedule and get back to you later today, need to handle twitter and other channels now (reaction to blog post) :P | 11:45 |
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| cos- | cybette: ok, np. you can contact hallitus@tampere.hacklab.fi by e-mail if i'm away | 11:46 |
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| _inte_ | chriadam: where did YOU get your opinion from if not from tjc | 11:48 |
| _inte_ | ? | 11:48 |
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| _inte_ | and why don't you conduct a poll on tjc or jolla.com regarding the cover action and now-missing gestures? | 11:49 |
| _inte_ | there is a lot of ranting on tjc regarding the ui change and IMHO Jolla shouldn't ignore that | 11:49 |
| Stskeeps | entil: soon, https://tribktla.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/orland-crash-1.jpg | 11:50 |
| _inte_ | i'm not aware of any other feedback method than tjc | 11:50 |
| chriadam | _inte_: I have access to Care tickets, emails from customers, TJC, and several IRC channels for normal and early-access users. We don't ignore TJC, obviously. We do plan on improving and iterating the UI over time, obviously. | 11:50 |
| cybette | cos-: will do! | 11:51 |
| chriadam | _inte_: again, just because you're not aware of other channels, don't mean they don't exist. obviously. | 11:51 |
| _inte_ | and if jolla claimes their OS is people-powered, then let the people decide about such fundamental ui changes | 11:51 |
| entil | Stskeeps: nooooo | 11:51 |
| entil | _inte_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theorem | 11:51 |
| _inte_ | chriadam: I've not seen a single post on tjc actually defending the loss of gestures | 11:51 |
| chriadam | _inte_: we are people. the developers are people. the community are people. the designers are people. we're all people, and we're all contributing to the product. some of us contribute in different manner than others. in the area of interaction design, our in-house designers set the broad direction and goals, based on their research, discussion with customers, discussion with mobile operators, feedback from various | 11:52 |
| chriadam | channels, etc. | 11:52 |
| MoritzJT_ | nice one with the truck and bus | 11:53 |
| entil | soylent green is people | 11:53 |
| entil | (sorry :D) | 11:53 |
| chriadam | of course, the community has a lot of great ideas and suggestions, and we definitely take that on board - in some cases, more slowly than we could hope, I guess. but that's unavoidable with our limited resources | 11:53 |
| MoritzJT_ | mobile operators havimg a say in UI and design? | 11:53 |
| MoritzJT_ | oh noes, where's the benefit? | 11:53 |
| _inte_ | MoritzJT_: +1 | 11:54 |
| chriadam | MoritzJT_: mobile operators get customer complaints | 11:54 |
| chriadam | they are the coal-face of a lot of feedback from customers | 11:54 |
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| MoritzJT_ | a, a channel thus | 11:54 |
| chriadam | they forward that feedback onto us, where appropriate | 11:54 |
| MoritzJT_ | I thought the had their own opinion haha | 11:54 |
| MoritzJT_ | never complained then ;-) | 11:54 |
| lainwir3d | o/ | 11:54 |
| _inte_ | chriadam: I'd guess this feedback is biased and I wouldn't really rely on that | 11:54 |
| lainwir3d | received my tablet sent email notification | 11:55 |
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| chriadam | _inte_: again, I need to stress: the current implementation in SFOS2.0 isn't the final design full stop. it's a scalable UI base from which we can iterate. we _needed_ SFOS2.0 to meet our business needs as I described earlier (scaling over multiple form factors and sizes, without requiring different codelines for each one) | 11:55 |
| chriadam | now that we have that base to work from, we are in a better position to iterate swiftly, and take in community feedback and so on | 11:55 |
| _inte_ | and, eventually, there is probably not to much customer feedback through providers at present since there are barely providers actually selling (and supporting) Jolla | 11:55 |
| ahjolinna | the biggest problem is that it's usually the most vocal minority is that keeps complaining and gets their opinion most heard, it doesn't mean it reflects rest of the community opinion | 11:56 |
| ahjolinna | damn typos | 11:56 |
| lainwir3d | +1 ahjolinna | 11:56 |
| chriadam | _inte_: all feedback is biased toward the POV of the person giving the feedback, that's unavoidable. of course we do our best to consider their POV and try to understand their perspective, when we make decisions. | 11:56 |
| _inte_ | chriadam: ok thanks then i will put my hopes in having 4 distinct gestures back in the homescreen (instead of only two) with the final 2.0 release, happy to hear that | 11:56 |
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| entil | _inte_: don't get your hopes up :D | 11:57 |
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| chriadam | ahjolinna: right, communication is something that Jolla, as a company, does need to improve, in my personal opinion. the discussion with community members and contributors can be improved in many ways. that will take time and resolution to improve. then hopefully the "loud minority" effect can be undone to some extent, by allowing more people to engage with us in this discussion. | 11:58 |
| _inte_ | ahjolinna: true, and thats why i started somewhat a "poll" to hear both sides regarding the cover buttons: https://together.jolla.com/question/113838/poll-bring-back-old-cover-actions-swipes/ | 11:58 |
| _inte_ | its not official and somewhere hidden on tjc again | 11:58 |
| _inte_ | but if people really would like the buttons in majority the result would propbably have been somewhat different | 11:59 |
| Armadillo | chriadam from a developer's perspective: The scaling works quite well, I recently brought TaskList to a state which should work now with many types of devices. Good work! ;) | 11:59 |
| _inte_ | i know there is this downvoting thing on tjc which actually makes polls unneccessary | 11:59 |
| _inte_ | however, i personally downvote rather seldom because i find it somewhat impolite | 12:00 |
| _inte_ | and, downvotes are actually not visible to others | 12:00 |
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| chriadam | Armadillo: thanks for the words of encouragement! I personally didn't do too much of the scaling UI work personally, but I will forward your comment onto some of the guys in my office :-) | 12:01 |
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| ahjolinna | one problem there is so few people that even want or have time to vote or give their opinion compare to the vocal minority | 12:02 |
| _inte_ | ahjolinna: i made the suggestion to make the gesture control opt-in | 12:02 |
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| _inte_ | or opt-out | 12:02 |
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| _inte_ | like, DAUS or people with tinytiny fingers can stay with the buttons on the phone, all the others get the swipes back | 12:03 |
| Armadillo | chriadam thanks :) I also appreciate the new developer documentation, which personally gave me a huge motivation push to further develope my apps. :) | 12:03 |
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| chriadam | Armadillo: oh, was that released already? nice | 12:03 |
| entil | where's that, armadillo? | 12:04 |
| _inte_ | i also want to encourage jolla to not only allow the quick-access to events from the left side but also from the bottom (as an opt-in) | 12:04 |
| Armadillo | in the new sdk there have been many changes | 12:04 |
| ahjolinna | you can see this problem even in normal life aka with political issues....they always listen to what the vocal minority says | 12:04 |
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| ahjolinna | they=politician | 12:04 |
| entil | Armadillo: oh, I was hoping for online documentation on the web, but having it in the sdk is super-useful too | 12:04 |
| _inte_ | ahjolinna: true, if one would read comments on german newssites one could easily get the impression that germany is full of racist assholes :) | 12:05 |
| Armadillo | entil there is an online documentation sinc esome months back online ;) | 12:05 |
| entil | Armadillo: can't remember when I last wrote code for a sailfish app and it existed then - I just remembered a friend of mine complaining how he couldn't find documentation on how to interface with sms | 12:05 |
| _inte_ | ahjolinna: on the other hand, a prominet, well announced vote on a official site could surely provide more insight in the user base | 12:06 |
| Armadillo | entil https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/silica/sailfish-silica-all.html/ and more: https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/ | 12:06 |
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| entil | brought that up here or on #sailfishos, was told about telepathy, passed the message onwards, but was hoping things like that might be addresssed now | 12:06 |
| entil | ooh, nice, thanks | 12:06 |
| _inte_ | there was public voting for the excented goals through the igg campaing and it worked I guess | 12:06 |
| Armadillo | there also is a new qml documentation, maybe you can find some things about messaging there, didn't skim that till now | 12:07 |
| Armadillo | erm dbus, not qml | 12:07 |
| Armadillo | ^^ | 12:07 |
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| _inte_ | haha, someone just voted for "bring cover swipes back" after i pasted the link here :) | 12:08 |
| _inte_ | who was that? :-P | 12:08 |
| entil | Armadillo: I see the dbus docs, maybe I can find something on what's provided, but looks good anyway | 12:08 |
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| MoritzJT_ | ahjolinna: are you aware of the post on tjc about votes showing up and downvotes instead of their sum to detect controversial topics? | 12:18 |
| ahjolinna | yes...so? | 12:19 |
| MoritzJT_ | do you think that's an idea worth thinking about with all the vocal minority stuff? | 12:20 |
| ahjolinna | it doesnt mean that people that are voting at tjc are good reflection of a general community | 12:20 |
| _inte_ | ahjolinna: thats the best reflection you could get i think | 12:22 |
| _inte_ | the majority of jolla owners is probably also at tjc | 12:22 |
| _inte_ | and jolla could easily conduct some public votes officially | 12:23 |
| ahjolinna | only really enthusiastic (linux geeks) people are voting in tjc ...you will never see so called normal end users opinions | 12:23 |
| ahjolinna | is that a good thing?...who knows...I dont think so | 12:23 |
| _inte_ | well, the good thing is there are virtually no endusers who have a jolla :) | 12:23 |
| _inte_ | apart from geeks :-) | 12:24 |
| _inte_ | the thing is there is another gesture based os: blackberry | 12:24 |
| Tofe | _inte_: there are ~8800 people subscribed on TJC, less than half the user population I'd say. People who vote/go on TJC are often there because they have an interest in voting. | 12:24 |
| Tofe | But that's a classic biais | 12:24 |
| _inte_ | and even though they have some problems and even come up with their own android phone now | 12:24 |
| _inte_ | but the last thing they'd ever do is probably dropping the gestures on bbos10 | 12:25 |
| _inte_ | Tofe: but all jolla users have jolla accounts | 12:25 |
| ahjolinna | jolla wont survive only with our support they need more normal end users..so that's why they have to make sailfish OS more end user friendly...not just keep us geeks happy | 12:25 |
| Armadillo | ahjolinna +1 | 12:26 |
| _inte_ | ahjolinna: the actual problem is that sf2.0 is far less enduser-friednly than sf1.0 | 12:26 |
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| ahjolinna | unfortunately 2.0 is more enduser friendly...belive me...its just not 100% ready | 12:26 |
| _inte_ | send out a feedback form (short one) to all jolla accounts and conduct a poll regarding the gestures on accounts.jolla.com | 12:27 |
| ahjolinna | 2.0 is now there where 1.x was when it arrived | 12:27 |
| _inte_ | ahjolinna: i find it far more complex | 12:27 |
| _inte_ | well, i dont understand android as well | 12:27 |
| _inte_ | ahjolinna: you find it more enduser friendly, i find it less | 12:27 |
| _inte_ | so, here we are | 12:28 |
| chriadam | this is the third time I have said this, and I tire of saying it to you, _inte_. You obviously don't believe me, but the great majority of feedback we have had is that users prefer SFOS2.0 navigation model over SFOS1.x. | 12:28 |
| chriadam | yes, preferences like this are subjective. | 12:28 |
| chriadam | you're more than welcome to prefer the old one. | 12:28 |
| chriadam | that does not change the facts I have stated. | 12:28 |
| _inte_ | thank you | 12:28 |
| _inte_ | chriadam: at least we all agree that users want the cover-action-swipes back | 12:28 |
| MoritzJT_ | haha | 12:29 |
| chriadam | why do you jump to that conclusion? | 12:29 |
| ahjolinna | well I dont think it will | 12:29 |
| ahjolinna | and I dont want it | 12:29 |
| Tofe | _inte_: as well as some users want to have android on their Jolla | 12:29 |
| _inte_ | chriadam: its obvious | 12:29 |
| MoritzJT_ | _inte_ :D | 12:29 |
| _inte_ | and from the poll | 12:29 |
| chriadam | :frysquint: | 12:29 |
| ahjolinna | because it doesnt work with 2.0 | 12:29 |
| Stskeeps | Tofe: i'm a tiny bit sad nobody has tried | 12:29 |
| _inte_ | ahjolinna: of course it does, why wouldnt it? | 12:29 |
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| _inte_ | ahjolinna: partnerspace and events is now where ambience was before. We had cover actions before. Why cant we have them now? | 12:30 |
| MoritzJT_ | android on the jolla? hmm | 12:30 |
| MoritzJT_ | dual boot forr proper gaming sounds great | 12:30 |
| Tofe | Stskeeps: well, count me out :) | 12:30 |
| MoritzJT_ | or a fix in alien dalvik to avoid such fantasies | 12:31 |
| MoritzJT_ | Sound stuttering all over the place and missalligned UI elements found by me | 12:31 |
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| ahjolinna | _inte_:in theory it works..but in practise, it will be problematic to use... I really dont know how to explain it in english | 12:34 |
| _inte_ | so, it would be as difficult to use in practise as it was to switch the ambieance in sf1.0? | 12:35 |
| chriadam | cognitively overloading users with physically consonant gestures, thus requiring cognitive effort rather than muscle memory in order to perform simple tasks. | 12:35 |
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| chriadam | it's wordy in english. | 12:35 |
| _inte_ | well | 12:36 |
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| _inte_ | i dont know much about these usability theories | 12:36 |
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| _inte_ | however, what i DO know that having the shortcut to events on one side is overloading my capabilities | 12:36 |
| ahjolinna | also in 1.x the ambiance thing u needed to swipe from the side to to get it | 12:36 |
| ahjolinna | mostly | 12:37 |
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| ahjolinna | my english sucks today | 12:37 |
| _inte_ | depending on the hand im using, pushing the app away leads me either to the events screen or to the homescreen. totally confusing | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | "Thanks a lot for your update! | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | [Ber.. | 12:38 |
| _inte_ | ahjolinna: ah ok, fair enough | 12:38 |
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| sledges | https://twitter.com/JollaIt/status/652079459869290497 | 12:40 |
| TMavica | My fd received Jolla Tablet | 12:40 |
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| HtheB | TMavica: developer? | 12:41 |
| HtheB | or retail? | 12:41 |
| Stskeeps | TMavica: congratulations, must be one of the first | 12:41 |
| TMavica | Yes. In hong kong | 12:42 |
| Stskeeps | nod | 12:42 |
| TMavica | HtheB: just arrived her home fews hours ago | 12:42 |
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| Stskeeps | TMavica: she should tweet about it :) | 12:43 |
| Stskeeps | historic moment | 12:43 |
| TMavica | Retweated | 12:43 |
| ggabriel | TMavica: you're probably a bit jealous :) | 12:43 |
| MoritzJT | But just a tiny bit, after all we're all very calm | 12:44 |
| TMavica | I will ask her more photo. And i going to met her | 12:44 |
| TMavica | She having dinner | 12:44 |
| ggabriel | MoritzJT: very calm indeed | 12:44 |
| ggabriel | patience definitely describs this community | 12:44 |
| Stskeeps | TMavica: \o// | 12:45 |
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| ahjolinna | I ordered my February 2nd...I still havent got my email...dont know if its because when I ordered the tablet i used @ovi.com email and it was discontinued 2months after...so its possible that jolla has sent that email to my old @ovi.com email address ...I did updated my new email address all the places I remembered | 12:45 |
| chem|st | I do not even have a tracking number yet | 12:45 |
| MoritzJT | I ordered in December, so February will come really late I guess? | 12:46 |
| chem|st | ahjolinna: igg and shop.jolla.com? | 12:46 |
| ahjolinna | igg | 12:46 |
| Stskeeps | ahjolinna: talk to care | 12:46 |
| ahjolinna | I did | 12:46 |
| ahjolinna | no answer yet | 12:47 |
| ahjolinna | it has been 8days | 12:47 |
| ahjolinna | -_- | 12:47 |
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| ahjolinna | how many order also the 'mapbagrag® Jolla Tablet Case ' ? | 12:50 |
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| ahjolinna | it seems I orderd the tablet December 3rd | 12:51 |
| ahjolinna | feb 2nd was the 64gb addon | 12:52 |
| TMavica | Seem she is the first one get it | 12:52 |
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| MoritzJT | The very first? Nice! | 12:55 |
| Stskeeps | first one talking about it at least | 12:56 |
| ggabriel | the other ones are too busy playing with it | 12:56 |
| TMavica | Should be first | 12:56 |
| MoritzJT | Ah thx for the headsup ahjolinna - same for me here... roughly. | 12:56 |
| MoritzJT | But the update date will not place you later in queue I guess ;-) | 12:56 |
| MoritzJT | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qS0DE4oOf7qPYjwUAaL-rjoPcqu6hHQRJOdspQ4_Hgc/edit#gid=0 | 12:56 |
| MoritzJT | I mean in there we're still faaaar from the current batches | 12:56 |
| MoritzJT | I think we'll be in december too, or at least definitely not in this month | 12:57 |
| _inte_ | who is taking care of that list? | 12:57 |
| _inte_ | you can add me if you want | 12:57 |
| MoritzJT | some german guy who lives not far from me, he's to be found on TMO and tjc in the tablet shipping thread | 12:58 |
| MoritzJT | forgot his name right now. I knew is actual name once | 12:58 |
| MoritzJT | I can't maintain that list | 12:58 |
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| _inte_ | ok | 13:00 |
| _inte_ | nevermind | 13:00 |
| _inte_ | btw cutecw is a very nice proggy on linux systems | 13:00 |
| _inte_ | usually found in the common repos | 13:00 |
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| _inte_ | i only wonder if it would be hard to port to sfos | 13:01 |
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| _inte_ | seems to be qt | 13:01 |
| _inte_ | at least, ldd points to libqtgui | 13:02 |
| _inte_ | libqtgui.so.4 though | 13:02 |
| ahjolinna | is there qt5 port in the works? | 13:03 |
| _inte_ | would be fun on the tablet | 13:03 |
| _inte_ | http://www.hamtools.org/cutecw/ | 13:03 |
| _inte_ | ha, there seems to be a maemo port as well! | 13:03 |
| _inte_ | dont know about further dev | 13:03 |
| MoritzJT | Yeah just saw that image of the n900 | 13:03 |
| MoritzJT | looks a bit dead right now? | 13:04 |
| _inte_ | just found it by coincedence and tend to like it | 13:04 |
| _inte_ | well, in the repos its also 1.0 | 13:04 |
| _inte_ | but my fedora is outdated | 13:04 |
| ahjolinna | u can always request a qt5 port https://github.com/hardaker/CuteCW/issues | 13:04 |
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| _inte_ | i will | 13:05 |
| _inte_ | last commit is 2013 :-/ | 13:05 |
| _inte_ | https://github.com/hardaker/CuteCW/issues/10 | 13:05 |
| _inte_ | well there is obviously something like that | 13:05 |
| _inte_ | already | 13:05 |
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| ahjolinna | the dev hasnt been that active in general either https://github.com/hardaker | 13:06 |
| _inte_ | well but hes still active which is good i guess | 13:07 |
| _inte_ | a qt5 port will be necessary anyways | 13:07 |
| _inte_ | with fedora featuring wayland in the upcoming relase e.g. | 13:08 |
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| HtheB | ERROR 404 | 13:09 |
| ahjolinna | well wayland is pointless in desktop until at least Nvidia proprietary drivers support it | 13:09 |
| ahjolinna | AMD/radeon...well who cares | 13:10 |
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| _inte_ | AMD FOSS drivers are not too bad! | 13:11 |
| ahjolinna | readon is still unusable ...at least if u want to game | 13:12 |
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| chem|st | _inte_: it is mosen | 13:12 |
| _inte_ | mosen? | 13:12 |
| chem|st | tablet list operator | 13:13 |
| ahjolinna | _inte_: even the most high end radeon loses to GTX 950 (low end) because of the drivers are so awful | 13:13 |
| TMavica | Jolla prefer to ship tablet to girl first...damn | 13:14 |
| ggabriel | ladies first | 13:14 |
| ggabriel | the comments in the latest blog post are quite funny sometimes | 13:14 |
| ahjolinna | _inte_: 500€ radeon vs 150€ nvidia... yeah | 13:14 |
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| ahjolinna | if jolla did send tablets to women first ...that would be sexism at best | 13:15 |
| _inte_ | well, arent there cs drivers available as well? | 13:16 |
| MoritzJT | let's not ever have a discussion about that online :D It's stuff for the offline worlld | 13:16 |
| _inte_ | but true, for wayland to become a success good 3d drivers are a must! | 13:17 |
| ahjolinna | MoritzJT: about what? | 13:17 |
| ahjolinna | _inte_: well I'm most intrested when SteamOS will start to use wayland....because gaming with wayland :P | 13:18 |
| _inte_ | ahjolinna: steamos will rely on mir | 13:18 |
| ahjolinna | hahah | 13:18 |
| ahjolinna | good one | 13:18 |
| _inte_ | wayland competitor | 13:19 |
| _inte_ | well, im actually serious | 13:19 |
| ahjolinna | yeah ...no | 13:19 |
| _inte_ | at least as long as steamos relys on ubuntu | 13:19 |
| ahjolinna | its uses debian | 13:19 |
| ahjolinna | not ubuntu | 13:19 |
| ahjolinna | ubuntu relys on debian | 13:19 |
| ahjolinna | for now | 13:20 |
| lainwir3d | Please no. Not Mir | 13:21 |
| ahjolinna | mir is just the next startup....or whatever it was called...it will loose to wayland like they lost to systemd | 13:21 |
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| _inte_ | hopefully :) | 13:23 |
| Armadillo | ahjolinna upstart :) | 13:23 |
| ahjolinna | oh yea | 13:23 |
| ahjolinna | thx | 13:23 |
| ahjolinna | i forgot that crap name | 13:23 |
| Armadillo | :D | 13:25 |
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| Armadillo | hopefully mir will die fast^^ | 13:25 |
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| _inte_ | however, IF ubuntu, as the currently most common enduser distro, manages to motivate ati/nvidia to provide drivers they could eventually win | 13:25 |
| giucam | nvidia is working on wayland drivers | 13:26 |
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| ahjolinna | well the drivers only need EGL support...thats what wayland and mir needs to work | 13:26 |
| giucam | but EGL is a part of the drivers, it's not like they support it and then it magically works on wayloand/mir/x/whatever | 13:27 |
| ahjolinna | and valve cares about LINUX gaming not about ubuntu gaming...so if wayland is that standard then I think they will go with wayland for steamOS | 13:27 |
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| ahjolinna | well at least NVIDIA (and intel) have said that they will support wayland..so that means EGL support will be only that what wayland needs | 13:30 |
| giucam | kinda, yes | 13:31 |
| ahjolinna | so valve/steamOS has to go with wayland if that doesnt change | 13:31 |
| giucam | but mesa supports it, so intel supports it now | 13:31 |
| giucam | and has supported it for years | 13:31 |
| ahjolinna | I know...I think all the opensource drivers supports at least wayland by now | 13:32 |
| ahjolinna | dont know about mir | 13:32 |
| ahjolinna | or dont care | 13:32 |
| giucam | there isno mir support in mesa upstream afaik | 13:32 |
| ahjolinna | didnt Intel say that they wont support mir upstream? | 13:33 |
| giucam | they refused to merge some patches in their ddx driver for Xmir, but support in EGL is another thing entirely | 13:33 |
| ahjolinna | okay | 13:33 |
| ahjolinna | I wonder when steamOS will take wayland (or mir) ...so what will happen to the old games...will there be need for xwayland? or will valve force wayland support? | 13:35 |
| giucam | SDL2 supports wayland, games not using it need xwayland | 13:36 |
| ahjolinna | not all games are using it | 13:36 |
| _inte_ | actually my voodoo2 with glide3d was the best linux graphics card i ever had | 13:36 |
| _inte_ | :) | 13:36 |
| _inte_ | 1998 :-P | 13:37 |
| ahjolinna | wow...I was 5y old then | 13:37 |
| _inte_ | hehe | 13:38 |
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| chem|st | _inte_: it was the sadest day in history when the voodoo died... | 13:38 |
| _inte_ | true | 13:39 |
| chem|st | my combination was a voodoo2 with a matrox mygistic5 | 13:39 |
| _inte_ | puh, i guess i had a pretty common 4mb ati card at that time but just dont remember its name | 13:39 |
| chem|st | I ate any nvidias for 5 years | 13:39 |
| coderus | Android Share Plugin for SailfishOS: https://openrepos.net/content/coderus/android-shareui-plugin | 13:39 |
| ahjolinna | nice | 13:40 |
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| _inte_ | coderus thanks!! | 13:42 |
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| sledges | PSA: sailfishos oss collab meeting @ #mer-meeting now | 14:32 |
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| nh1402 | coderus: how come your mazelock patch hasn't been officially been added to Sailfish | 15:06 |
| coderus | nh1402: because its a dirty hack :) | 15:08 |
| MoritzJT | coderus, shutdown and bootup did not help get android share to work | 15:08 |
| nh1402 | why don't they clean it and add it | 15:09 |
| nh1402 | I have half a mind to make a lockscreen patch myself, but the only one that I could actually do (due to UI and complexity of other ideas) is making my own version of LG's Lock Code. | 15:11 |
| MoritzJT | what is lgs lock code? | 15:13 |
| MoritzJT | I like the BB approach with the random numbers field | 15:13 |
| nh1402 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8aTC5Zccew | 15:13 |
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| coderus | MoritzJT: wtf :D | 15:15 |
| nh1402 | MoritzJT: what's the BB approach | 15:15 |
| nh1402 | MoritzJT: Here's a better non-promotional version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPYypLe8LEU | 15:16 |
| MoritzJT | lol that promo vid | 15:17 |
| MoritzJT | BB approach? They have a field of numbers or letters too? that is randomly filled | 15:17 |
| MoritzJT | so no one can guess your code by frequently looking at you solving it from the distance | 15:17 |
| nh1402 | isn't that only possible due to the hardware keyboard | 15:19 |
| MoritzJT | what? I mean onscreen, how do you fill a hardware keyboard with random numbers haha | 15:20 |
| nh1402 | you type the random numbers and letters with the hardware keyboard | 15:20 |
| nh1402 | I'm guessing | 15:20 |
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| nh1402 | coderus: Do you know how to design a retro dialer UI ? | 15:22 |
| nh1402 | I have a lockscreen idea which is basically just replacing the numeric keypad with a retro dialer so it's harder to tell what the numeric code was due to the overlapping of the swipes. | 15:26 |
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| AL13N | anyone hear any progress on tablets yet? | 15:30 |
| coderus | AL13N: check blog.jolla.com | 15:30 |
| Yaniel | ship, ship, ship your boat | 15:31 |
| Yaniel | gently down the.... sea? | 15:31 |
| AL13N | coderus: any _recent_ progress | 15:31 |
| AL13N | ie: the first 200 should've gotten it by now, mostly | 15:31 |
| AL13N | no? | 15:31 |
| Yaniel | apparently they have left hk | 15:31 |
| lainwir3d | nope | 15:31 |
| ggabriel | at least 1 person has it | 15:31 |
| lainwir3d | received the mail that it has left hong kong this morning | 15:31 |
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| AL13N | lainwir3d: oh, ok | 15:31 |
| AL13N | too bad it needs to ship from there | 15:32 |
| lainwir3d | well no actually, the tracking says that someone is taking are of it in Hong kong :P | 15:32 |
| lainwir3d | care* | 15:32 |
| AL13N | oh, ic | 15:32 |
| lainwir3d | but it's still there haha | 15:32 |
| AL13N | ok, so it'll take some time | 15:32 |
| AL13N | k got it | 15:32 |
| AL13N | thx | 15:32 |
| lainwir3d | no, sorry again : "Departed Facility in HONG KONG - HONG KONG DHL Express" | 15:33 |
| lainwir3d | at 5:20 in the morning | 15:33 |
| lainwir3d | >_> | 15:33 |
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| coderus | AL13N: https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-important-news-helm/ | 15:33 |
| lainwir3d | I'll keep you informed on the progress | 15:33 |
| coderus | 8 Oct, recent enough for you? | 15:33 |
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| lainwir3d | hey cybette, is that your "signature" at the bottom right ? ;-) https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/11225292_901358866613180_799893637465104041_o.jpg | 15:35 |
| ksj | is there a way to get the messages about how much credit you have left on the phone every time you make a call? | 15:37 |
| ksj | I have the same sime in a different phone and get them | 15:37 |
| ksj | but not on jolla | 15:37 |
| MoritzJT | what are they called again? | 15:38 |
| MoritzJT | USSD codes and messages? | 15:38 |
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| MoritzJT | Remember the big mess on the N900 where that support was patched in by the community if I'm not mistaken? | 15:39 |
| entil | wonder what the dhl dude was going on about with dubai being the next stop for my tablet - it's in leipzig now | 15:39 |
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| entil | that's probably better news than dubai anyway ;) | 15:40 |
| coderus | you know what, i uploaded wrong rpm to openrepos, from another project :D | 15:40 |
| ksj | MoritzJT: I didn't know the name, but yeah, by the looks of things they're not supported, which is really annoying | 15:40 |
| ksj | because I like to know just how much I'm being ripped off by vodafone | 15:41 |
| MoritzJT | coderus, that's good to hear! | 15:41 |
| MoritzJT | did you update already or can I still uninstall? | 15:41 |
| coderus | uninstall this rpm if you can, refresh repo, and install android-shareui rpm :D | 15:42 |
| coderus | Android ShareUI plugin: https://openrepos.net/content/coderus/android-shareui-plugin | 15:43 |
| MoritzJT | I don't have the old rpm also how do I uninstall manually? It has no icon, CLI? | 15:43 |
| coderus | pkcon remove aliendalvik-controls | 15:44 |
| MoritzJT | thx | 15:44 |
| MoritzJT | without the s in the end it works | 15:45 |
| coderus | aha | 15:46 |
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| MoritzJT | what is alien dalvik control anyway? :D | 15:46 |
| MoritzJT | now that we know it exists | 15:46 |
| MoritzJT | works fine now! | 15:47 |
| coderus | :D | 15:47 |
| MoritzJT | well it's shown in the list at least | 15:47 |
| MoritzJT | does not open the android share ui though | 15:47 |
| coderus | https://github.com/CODeRUS/aliendalvik-control | 15:48 |
| coderus | you should start some android app after reboot to start android | 15:48 |
| coderus | share ui not starting android itself | 15:48 |
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| MoritzJT | alien dalvik is running | 15:48 |
| MoritzJT | have whatsapp open | 15:48 |
| MoritzJT | but it does not open a window with share ui | 15:48 |
| MoritzJT | will reboot | 15:48 |
| coderus | just try again | 15:49 |
| MoritzJT | it minimizes the source app but does not open anything for me | 15:49 |
| coderus | and check systemctl status android-shareui | 15:49 |
| MoritzJT | android-shareui.service | 15:50 |
| MoritzJT | Loaded: not-found (Reason: No such file or directory) | 15:50 |
| MoritzJT | Active: inactive (dead) | 15:50 |
| coderus | ah | 15:50 |
| coderus | its named.. | 15:50 |
| coderus | androidshareui | 15:50 |
| coderus | without - | 15:50 |
| MoritzJT | androidshareui.service - Android ShareUI | 15:51 |
| MoritzJT | Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/androidshareui.service; disabled) | 15:51 |
| MoritzJT | Active: failed (Result: start-limit) since Thu 2015-10-08 17:49:50 CEST; 1min 11s ago | 15:51 |
| MoritzJT | Process: 10521 ExecStart=/usr/bin/androidshareui (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) | 15:51 |
| MoritzJT | Main PID: 10521 (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) | 15:51 |
| MoritzJT | CGroup: /system.slice/androidshareui.service | 15:51 |
| coderus | devel-su | 15:51 |
| coderus | androidshareui | 15:51 |
| coderus | and show w hat is wrong | 15:51 |
| MoritzJT | [D] DBusMain::start:17 - Starting dbus service "org.coderus.androidshareui" ... | 15:52 |
| MoritzJT | [W] DBusMain::start:20 - Register service fails! | 15:52 |
| coderus | hm | 15:52 |
| coderus | already tried reboot? | 15:53 |
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| MoritzJT | nope, will time out here then | 15:54 |
| MoritzJT | brb | 15:54 |
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| MoritzJT | re | 15:59 |
| MoritzJT | sometimes now the whole share list is empty | 15:59 |
| MoritzJT | and populates very slowly | 15:59 |
| MoritzJT | or rather late, not slow | 15:59 |
| MoritzJT | ,--- | 16:00 |
| MoritzJT | | SailfishOS 1.1.9.28 (Eineheminlampi) (armv7hl) | 16:00 |
| MoritzJT | '--- | 16:00 |
| MoritzJT | [nemo@Jolla ~]$ devel-su | 16:00 |
| MoritzJT | Password: | 16:00 |
| MoritzJT | bash-3.2# androidshareui | 16:00 |
| MoritzJT | [D] DBusMain::start:17 - Starting dbus service "org.coderus.androidshareui" ... | 16:00 |
| MoritzJT | [W] DBusMain::start:20 - Register service fails! | 16:00 |
| coderus | after reboot? | 16:00 |
| MoritzJT | yes | 16:00 |
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| MoritzJT | should I uninstall and reinstall? | 16:00 |
| coderus | systemctl status androidshareui is not loaded? | 16:00 |
| MoritzJT | androidshareui.service - Android ShareUI | 16:01 |
| coderus | check ps aux | grep androidshareui | 16:01 |
| MoritzJT | Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/androidshareui.service; disabled) | 16:01 |
| MoritzJT | Active: failed (Result: start-limit) since Thu 2015-10-08 17:59:35 CEST; 1min 25s ago | 16:01 |
| MoritzJT | Process: 3035 ExecStart=/usr/bin/androidshareui (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) | 16:01 |
| MoritzJT | Main PID: 3035 (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) | 16:01 |
| MoritzJT | CGroup: /system.slice/androidshareui.service | 16:01 |
| MoritzJT | Oct 08 17:59:34 Jolla systemd[1]: Started Android ShareUI. | 16:01 |
| MoritzJT | Oct 08 17:59:35 Jolla systemd[1]: androidshareui.service holdoff time over,...t. | 16:01 |
| MoritzJT | Oct 08 17:59:35 Jolla systemd[1]: androidshareui.service start request repe...t. | 16:01 |
| MoritzJT | Oct 08 17:59:35 Jolla systemd[1]: Unit androidshareui.service entered faile...e. | 16:01 |
| MoritzJT | Hint: Some lines were ellipsized, use -l to show in full. | 16:01 |
| MoritzJT | root 3674 0.0 0.0 1912 524 pts/0 S+ 18:01 0:00 grep androidshareui | 16:01 |
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| SfietKonstantinW | MoritzJT: use paste.kde.org please ? | 16:03 |
| SfietKonstantinW | otherwise Stskeeps will become a hulk and kick you out of this IRC chan | 16:03 |
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| MoritzJT | I am still not accustomed to irc ROE, will do. Thanks for the heads up! | 16:04 |
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| MoritzJT | Taking the troubleshooting to private now | 16:05 |
| MoritzJT | Sorry for the spam | 16:05 |
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| rigo | password: | 17:18 |
| rigo | ah, too late | 17:18 |
| Coolgeek | 17:18 | |
| rigo | was reacting on <coderus> devel-su | 17:18 |
| Coolgeek | thought so | 17:19 |
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| rigo | and speculating that someone burns a password :) | 17:19 |
| Coolgeek | it's bad, and you should feel bad | 17:19 |
| Coolgeek | qwerty | 17:19 |
| Coolgeek | oups, wrong window | 17:19 |
| rigo | no, I'm feeling good | 17:19 |
| rigo | death to passwords | 17:19 |
| rigo | 12345 | 17:20 |
| Coolgeek | my password is the best : IshouldputapasswordherebutI'mafraidIwon'trememberit | 17:21 |
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| coderus | Android ShareUI plgin v0.1.2 is alive! https://openrepos.net/content/coderus/android-shareui-plugin | 17:34 |
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| narchie | jolla vat tablet santa clause payment | 18:04 |
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| chem|st | Coolgeek: looks just like my hdd password... | 18:14 |
| Lieke_ | my password is hunter2 | 18:15 |
| chem|st | Lieke_: good to know, nice pics btw | 18:16 |
| Lieke_ | ;) | 18:17 |
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| ccha | Hi, I'm an indiegogo contributor for jolla tablet, my tablet will be with which shipping ? | 18:40 |
| tbr | that will likely depend on at which point you placed your contribution | 18:44 |
| ccha | 19th november | 18:44 |
| tbr | if you are going to trust them, then sometime during november | 18:45 |
| ccha | ouch almost 1year :( | 18:45 |
| tbr | https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-important-news-helm/ | 18:46 |
| ccha | yes I read this | 18:47 |
| tbr | conveniently the graphic doesn't name year ;) | 18:47 |
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| Sail0r | https://thehackernews.com/2015/10/sha-1-collision-attack.html | 18:50 |
| ortylp | tbr: yeah, with year on the chart it would be too specific | 18:56 |
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| r0kk3rz | 2017 year of the jolla tablet | 19:03 |
| tbr | :D | 19:05 |
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| phlixi_ | sounds a bit optimistic | 19:28 |
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| * attah hits F5 furiously | 19:32 | |
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| GRnet | what its better mitakuluu or whatsup guys? | 19:41 |
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| coderus | whatsup | 19:41 |
| coderus | mitak not working | 19:41 |
| GRnet | any update for that? | 19:42 |
| GRnet | or stop project? | 19:42 |
| HtheB | coderus: do you have some time for me? | 19:44 |
| HtheB | i need some help with html/js :( but I dont know if it's achievable | 19:44 |
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| coderus | HtheB: html? | 19:45 |
| coderus | GRnet: i'm working on 0day changes in whatsapp protocol | 19:45 |
| coderus | whatsup still working on old protocol with no encryption | 19:45 |
| HtheB | coderus: yeah html | 19:45 |
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| coderus | HtheB: i dont know html | 19:46 |
| GRnet | so we w8 for working update ty | 19:46 |
| coderus | check w3s | 19:46 |
| HtheB | ah ok | 19:46 |
| coderus | i'm getting js docs at w3s | 19:46 |
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