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| tbr | chem|st: how can I reach that jiit guy on tjc and poke some sense into him? | 09:06 |
|---|---|---|
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| tbr | chem|st: you know what, forget it, if that's how moderators approach moderators, I have better things to do than waste my time on tjc. | 09:11 |
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| narchie | when can I pay VAT? | 09:13 |
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| tbr | go to the store, buy something. you'll be paying VAT for it. | 09:16 |
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| chem|st | tbr: ? | 10:06 |
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| chem|st | narchie: depending on your country you will need to take care of toll and taxes your own | 10:08 |
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| chem|st | tbr: about the duplicate thread stuff? | 10:11 |
| chem|st | first come first serve | 10:11 |
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| chem|st | and in all the noise about the RePhone parts have been released at seeedstudio | 10:23 |
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| tbr | chem|st: moderator decisions stand. another mod should NEVER publicly fuck around with that. It destroys the public image and trust. | 10:52 |
| tbr | chem|st: but hey, now you're alone with that guy and you can deal with his fallout. I'll just ignore things. | 10:52 |
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| chem|st | tbr: he is the bugzilla guy, so not a general moderator, and as always, jolla staff outranks us | 11:19 |
| chem|st | I had the same with another sailor, and I do not quiet understand why you are that upset about it | 11:20 |
| chem|st | tbr: and to be precise, it was always a first come first serve policy in closing duplicates, if you do not want to pick the fight with users, let sailors do | 11:21 |
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| tbr | chem|st: if he is a sailor then this is even more a problem, as he is not marked as such | 11:25 |
| tbr | I say let the sailors chocke on it then | 11:26 |
| chem|st | yes please let them | 11:27 |
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| chem|st | jolla lets them decide if they like to share that they are jolla or not | 11:28 |
| Scelt_ | nyt toimii | 11:28 |
| Scelt_ | hikka? | 11:28 |
| * tbr ponders to delete his tjc account | 11:28 | |
| Scelt_ | sorry, quick fingers and wrong channel | 11:28 |
| chem|st | tbr: and still, I do not understand why you are so fed by this, relax! | 11:29 |
| tbr | chem|st: I got upset as I made a decision as moderator, marked it and explained it. Then some under cover jolla moderator comes along ignores it and overrides it. | 11:30 |
| tbr | I find it laughable | 11:30 |
| tbr | and I don't give a fark | 11:30 |
| tbr | it just shows that there is no basis for trusting each other | 11:31 |
| MoritzJT | sorry for chiming in that abruptly. Do I hear right, that Jolla employees are not forced to reveal they are on TJC? | 11:33 |
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| MoritzJT | ain't that problematic from a legal pov anyway? | 11:33 |
| tbr | *shrug* not my problem anymore | 11:34 |
| MoritzJT | guess so | 11:34 |
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| chem|st | MoritzJT: why should it be problematic? | 11:36 |
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| chem|st | tbr: and btw he is shown as jolla*moderator to me... | 11:38 |
| MoritzJT | chem|st: am not sure, it was an ongoing topic for Nokia support discussions, in the end employees were not allowed as normal members. What they said had to reflect Nokia :/ | 11:38 |
| chem|st | MoritzJT: that is company policy | 11:39 |
| MoritzJT | chem|st: I thought they were forced from outside, but if that's the case all seems ok | 11:39 |
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| chem|st | jolla is way more liberal than nokia | 11:41 |
| chem|st | and what gov should force them to such thing, most govs do not even know about the internet ;) | 11:41 |
| playforvoices | To me I'm happy that Jolla continues the Nokia idea of a Linux based OS on Smartphones. | 11:42 |
| playforvoices | I'm not sure what you means with liberal? | 11:43 |
| MoritzJT | I was not supporting such a policy just to clear things up! | 11:43 |
| chem|st | https://www.google.com/search?q=liberal&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 | 11:43 |
| MoritzJT | you missed the conv | 11:43 |
| MoritzJT | lol | 11:43 |
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| tbr | chem|st: the profile doesn't show the jolla logo to me *shrug* | 11:44 |
| chem|st | lmc | 11:44 |
| playforvoices | *fg* thank you for the lesson in google politics, I think Jolla isn't liberal in that way. | 11:44 |
| chem|st | tbr: you are right, the profile does not show the logo, people does | 11:46 |
| chem|st | tbr: I think it is only the two of us not Jolla, so expect any moderator or admin be jolla | 11:46 |
| chem|st | playforvoices: they broke with the traditional nokia top down hirarchy, maybe I have to rephrase, they are way more liberated | 11:47 |
| chem|st | unconventional | 11:48 |
| playforvoices | ok, I understand now what you are meaning. I agree with you | 11:48 |
| tbr | they turned it around so much, that even though employees would comment on things nothing would be a commitment and a common catch phrase was "There is no jolla the company" (to make a statement on sthg) so essentially nothing was ever committed to | 11:50 |
| tbr | sometimes during the community meetings someone would confirm that they were empowered to make a committed statement | 11:50 |
| tbr | but I haven't seen that in a long time | 11:50 |
| ggabriel | the roadmap tag was kind of a commitment, wasn't it? | 11:51 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: the tracked by jolla states are | 11:53 |
| chem|st | and we had lots of official answers by sailors wearing a jolla tag | 11:54 |
| chem|st | on feature requests as well as on bugs | 11:54 |
| ggabriel | i guess an official answer may or may not be a commitment | 11:55 |
| ggabriel | otoh, commitments are hard to make as it only takes the investors to roll back the commitment | 11:55 |
| chem|st | they evolve slowly on what they share though, hope that changes with releasing more stuff to the open | 11:55 |
| ggabriel | so *shrug* | 11:55 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: you are hardlining, I mean they post statements, and they post stuff on blog that is as much as a commitment to me as a company can actually do, making promises they do not know if they can keep looks bad in the end | 11:57 |
| ggabriel | ok, semantics then | 11:57 |
| chem|st | yeah | 11:57 |
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| chem|st | I'd love to know more about the inner workings but in the end, who cares, I want to read about roadmaps as they happen and explode to tjc in the same second | 11:58 |
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| phdeswer | ggabriel: as a sailor I can say it is sometimes hard to know what to say. Especially if you agree and want some change or extra feature but often we don't know if or when it can be done (especially if it is out of your area of responsability). | 12:40 |
| phdeswer | It is trying to avoid making false promises often. | 12:40 |
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| ggabriel | i totally understand. i'm a consultant so similar situation when it comes to the product i'm an expert at and i don't control | 12:41 |
| ggabriel | i should have said "expert" ;) | 12:41 |
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| MoritzJT | Hi! Someone familiar with f2fs? Trying to change the UUID of a partition with f2fs, can't find a way... | 13:06 |
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| taaem | https://www.fairphone.com/2015/09/23/opening-up-fairphone-to-the-community-open-source-fairphone-2/ \o/ | 14:22 |
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| ggabriel | "We’re shipping with Fairphone OS, a unique Fairphone flavor of Android™ 5.1 (Lollipop)" | 14:25 |
| ggabriel | yaap | 14:25 |
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| ggabriel | full open source, all the tools and the binary blobs | 14:25 |
| ggabriel | ok, I want people to bash fairphone the same way jolla was bashed wrt open sourcery | 14:26 |
| ggabriel | binary blob != open source | 14:26 |
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| Yaniel | open sorcery | 14:26 |
| fennekki | the blobs are almost definitely drivers, tho | 14:26 |
| Yaniel | yes? | 14:26 |
| fennekki | complaints abt Jolla seemed to be more about the stuff that differentiates it from Just Nemo/Mer being closed, IIRC? | 14:26 |
| Yaniel | anyway has fairphone actually delivered anything yet? | 14:27 |
| ggabriel | fennekki: there were 2 types: silica and lower level stuff that qualcomm doesn't want you to share | 14:27 |
| Yaniel | fennekki: plenty of people have been complaining about the driver blobs too | 14:27 |
| fennekki | fuck qualcomm tbh | 14:27 |
| Yaniel | ^ | 14:27 |
| ggabriel | lol | 14:27 |
| fennekki | but that's not really a jolla-specific issue | 14:27 |
| Yaniel | but yeah the silica part is an issue | 14:27 |
| ggabriel | no, but there were a lot of complaints | 14:27 |
| fennekki | I don't really know what in particular any of these companies have to lose from releasing drivers for their devices in source form | 14:28 |
| fennekki | cheaper interoperable copies, maybe= | 14:28 |
| fennekki | ?* | 14:28 |
| fennekki | but then again, I don't know why they couldn't do that without the driver source | 14:28 |
| ninnnu | fennekki: Fear of "you're breaking muh patents", which is part of the reason why AMD and NVidia keep their GPU-drivers closed. | 14:30 |
| fennekki | I've heard radeon is already quite good, though | 14:30 |
| fennekki | I mean, the open-source driver | 14:30 |
| ninnnu | But it's not the same as the closed one | 14:33 |
| fennekki | mm, yeah | 14:33 |
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| ggabriel | not sure how fairphone os is different to cyanogenmod either | 15:01 |
| ggabriel | not sure it deserves the "os" bit either :) | 15:01 |
| wysiwtf | you mean like replicant? :p | 15:03 |
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| walokra | I heard that there's nice new game in Store, Falldown :) | 15:04 |
| ggabriel | wysiwtf: i guess i'm just randomly hating :P | 15:05 |
| Lieke | yes, falldown is pretty fun | 15:06 |
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| wysiwtf | ooh | 15:07 |
| wysiwtf | first table invites are out i read | 15:08 |
| wysiwtf | now it can only a matter of years \o/ | 15:08 |
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| zebbiz_pi | Anyone have an ETA on sailfishOS 2.0? | 15:38 |
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| coderus | month after jolla tablet ships? | 15:39 |
| coderus | afaik it will be shipped with 1.1.9.28 only | 15:40 |
| pdanek2 | Hello | 15:40 |
| zebbiz_pi | Isn't bjrntrsket 16? | 15:40 |
| zebbiz_pi | 1.1.16 | 15:40 |
| pdanek2 | as a part of sailfish roadmap, there was researching selinux use on sailfish | 15:40 |
| cb400f | most of 2.0 is in 1.1.9 right? ... surely they can't keep 1.1.9 in early access for another 6 weeks or so? ;-) | 15:40 |
| zebbiz_pi | hi, pdanek2 | 15:40 |
| pdanek2 | what was the outcome? | 15:41 |
| cb400f | that would be mean | 15:41 |
| pdanek2 | will sailfish get selinux anytime soon? | 15:41 |
| coderus | cb400f: who knows | 15:41 |
| coderus | pdanek2: dint seen any updates for next releases | 15:42 |
| pp_ | Soon (tm) after non-EA 1.1.9, I guess | 15:43 |
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| zebbiz_pi | Oh, I'm mixing my version numbers | 15:43 |
| nh1402 | when force touch becomes mainstream, (currently only found on the mate s), doing a hard swipe should provide further functionality such as switching between open apps, opening the shutdown, reboot menu | 15:44 |
| pdanek2 | it will become mainstream, sooner or later | 15:45 |
| nh1402 | probably in 2017 | 15:47 |
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| nh1402 | I don't see many phones being introduced with it next year | 15:47 |
| nh1402 | at least not from the big 4 | 15:48 |
| nh1402 | (Samsung, Sony, LG, HTC) | 15:48 |
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| pp_ | Microsoft! (they'd probably need to rewrite the kernel tho) | 15:49 |
| coderus | you can easily know pressed area value with 2012 (or even earlier) touchscreens hardware. jolla screen have such values also. | 15:50 |
| coderus | this can do same thing as "force touch" | 15:51 |
| nh1402 | pressed area is where on the screen you're pressing | 15:52 |
| nh1402 | force touch also include how much pressure is being applied. | 15:52 |
| coderus | area is how fat your finger | 15:52 |
| coderus | coordinates is where you're pressing | 15:53 |
| coderus | so with small calibration at the first start you can use this to simulate force touch | 15:53 |
| nh1402 | i suppose, but people have different sized fingers, if you're simulating force touch, people with chubby fingers might always detect it as a hard press | 15:54 |
| nh1402 | its like some chinese phones come with iris scanners, when you could do iris recognition with a normal camera. | 15:54 |
| coderus | sure, thats why calibration needed | 15:54 |
| coderus | can be calibrated on the fly also | 15:54 |
| nh1402 | well we could implement a simulated force touch with the functionality until the force touch hardware is found in all/most phones | 15:56 |
| nh1402 | or at least experiment with it and see how reliable it is. | 15:56 |
| nh1402 | I don't think it would be that reliable. | 16:00 |
| pdanek2 | why no news about intex device yet? | 16:00 |
| nh1402 | is there another big phone event coming up where they could officially announce some phones? | 16:01 |
| coderus | nh1402: well why not. with continuos calibrating we can always know size of area while normal press | 16:06 |
| nh1402 | they haven't announced any phones yet, but there are a few months left in the year ;) | 16:07 |
| nh1402 | continous calibration will get annoying for users. | 16:07 |
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| nh1402 | continuous* | 16:08 |
| nh1402 | coderus: I'm not arguing with you, I thought of that too, but I don't think it'll catch on, now since there is hardware that will get it right every time. | 16:10 |
| nh1402 | people would just complain. | 16:12 |
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| coderus | nobody talking about production | 16:12 |
| coderus | just for fun :) | 16:12 |
| nh1402 | coderus: how would you like to help bring android apps to Sailfish to ported devices/open source effort | 16:14 |
| coderus | if apps are opensource | 16:15 |
| nh1402 | I'm talking more about an android app compatibilty layer, like alien dalvik but free, and open source. | 16:17 |
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| coderus | i know nothing aout android :) | 16:22 |
| coderus | about* | 16:23 |
| nh1402 | how about opengl/opengles | 16:23 |
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| nh1402 | I think krnlyng and I can agree we need someone who knows about opengl/opengles more than they know about android. | 16:25 |
| nh1402 | at least for krnlyng's android emulator renderer method. | 16:25 |
| krnlyng | well some android knowledge is probably required | 16:26 |
| krnlyng | but i think for the most part its egl/gles knowledge | 16:26 |
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| nh1402 | coderus: what do you say, are you up for it? | 16:42 |
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| coderus | nh1402: no | 17:28 |
| nh1402 | fair enough | 17:30 |
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| r0kk3rz | its a popular enough idea, so im sure people will join if you just keep working on it | 17:36 |
| r0kk3rz | the porters guys might be able to help you with egl/gles type stuff | 17:38 |
| nh1402 | we've asked around quite a bit, some are either not interested or don't have time. | 17:47 |
| r0kk3rz | time is always the big one | 17:47 |
| r0kk3rz | this is for shashlik? or something else | 17:48 |
| pdanek2 | what's up with sailfish secure? | 17:49 |
| pdanek2 | ; | 17:49 |
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| pdanek2 | seems no news since announcement | 17:49 |
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| r0kk3rz | thats classified | 17:50 |
| pdanek2 | why? | 17:51 |
| pdanek2 | intellectual property? | 17:51 |
| pdanek2 | or NDA with SSH? | 17:52 |
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| pdanek2 | is it still a thing? | 17:54 |
| pdanek2 | should people hope for something in 2016? | 17:55 |
| nh1402 | this isn't for shashlik, a number of different possible methods. | 17:55 |
| r0kk3rz | nh1402: anything i can look at? | 17:56 |
| r0kk3rz | pdanek2: was a joke, sailfish insecure is still a bit of a joke compared to market leaders, let alone in the business marker | 17:57 |
| r0kk3rz | *market | 17:57 |
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| pdanek2 | I agree | 18:00 |
| the_mgt | still, I'd like to have file encryption, because I want to store my ssh and vpn keys on the device | 18:02 |
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| the_mgt | typing passwords with 32+ characters is a pita without a fullsize keyboard | 18:03 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah | 18:03 |
| r0kk3rz | tbh thats something you can most likely cook up yourself | 18:03 |
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| r0kk3rz | but i think jollas a bit tied when it comes to filesystem features thanks to btrfs | 18:03 |
| r0kk3rz | maybe some better stuff coming with tablet and ext4/llvm | 18:04 |
| pdanek2 | Do you think SSH Communications even cares about Jolla? | 18:05 |
| pdanek2 | they promised cooperation on sailfish secure, but it's probably very low interest for them | 18:05 |
| r0kk3rz | i can see why having proper linux phones is strategically useful for them | 18:08 |
| nh1402 | r0kk3rz: how are you with egl and gles | 18:08 |
| r0kk3rz | since, linux security is their area of expertise | 18:08 |
| r0kk3rz | nh1402: non-existant, ive never touched either | 18:08 |
| nh1402 | how about android graphics side, hwcomposer, gralloc, surfaceflinger | 18:09 |
| the_mgt | full on device encrpytion and optional encryption of every communication channel would be nice | 18:09 |
| r0kk3rz | nh1402: not really touched any of that either | 18:10 |
| the_mgt | encrypted normal voice calls and standard sms/mms would be nice | 18:10 |
| nh1402 | how about the android boot system and related android services | 18:10 |
| r0kk3rz | the_mgt: there was some random dudes working on encrypted voice calls | 18:11 |
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| pp_ | not random, it's the trevoc people! | 18:13 |
| r0kk3rz | nh1402: i dont really have any experience doing anything that would be particularly useful to you | 18:13 |
| r0kk3rz | nh1402: but if you have a work-in-progress somewhere i can look at, and try and get my head around some of it, maybe | 18:13 |
| the_mgt | r0kk3rz: any link or something? | 18:14 |
| nh1402 | r0kk3rz: well there is a chroot android rom with a renderer you could look at. The renderer is linked to the rom via tcp but it renders garbage, even though the correct texture is passed over. | 18:15 |
| nh1402 | krnlyng: link him ;) | 18:15 |
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| nh1402 | r0kk3rz: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95631 | 18:17 |
| r0kk3rz | the_mgt: https://twitter.com/PasiPatama/status/630236791258398720 , im not familiar with the company Trevoc, finnish i think | 18:18 |
| the_mgt | nice, thanks | 18:20 |
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| grnet | i cant install facebook messenger from warehouse said miss purple facebook | 19:23 |
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| coderus | pkcon refresh? | 19:50 |
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| grnet | i think i must install this | 20:17 |
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| grnet | https://openrepos.net/tags/telepathy-haze | 20:17 |
| grnet | purple fb | 20:17 |
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