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| kimmoli | Just pasted a lot, see here http://pastebin.com/BrDv2vd5 | 06:51 |
|---|---|---|
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| r0kk3rz | sigh, whyfor use paypal for tablet pre-orders..... | 08:04 |
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| r0kk3rz | its going to make me pay from my australian account, and the currency conversion is shit | 08:08 |
| r0kk3rz | first world problems i guess | 08:08 |
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| r0kk3rz | oh well, this way it comes out of the money i forget that i have | 08:20 |
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| attah | Any suggestions on what to try to fix btrfs when this happens http://piratepad.net/aBeFC6RDpV (tried the repair from recovery) | 08:58 |
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| attah | ffff! the Jolla crashes when i copy more than a little stuff in recovery mode | 09:18 |
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| attah | and now it crashed even without going to sleep :( | 09:22 |
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| zett_zelett | Is there any new word on when the next device will be released? I’m considering buying a Jolla (as a first smartphone), so I’m eager to get one, but I also hope a new device will bring better build quality/materials. Should I wait? | 11:54 |
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| Stskeeps | zett_zelett: that's always the puzzle with any device :) | 12:01 |
| Stskeeps | because either you select old and stable (you know the problems you'll get with it) or new (looks better but who knows what bugs it has) | 12:02 |
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| attah | Blaaaarrgh.. trying to recover my files from borked btrfs.. and recovery mode reads anything as filled with only 0x01 | 12:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://liliputing.com/2015/07/jolla-shifts-efforts-to-sailfish-os-exits-smartphone-hardware-business.html zett_zelett | 12:26 |
| SpeedEvil | I do not know exactly how that will look from a user-facing perspective | 12:26 |
| SpeedEvil | there may be the intent to pick a device from a third party vendor, and sell that as a primary platform. | 12:27 |
| SpeedEvil | (having said that - I have not been tracking this at all) | 12:27 |
| Mikaela | I hope nothing changes except another business logo on boot and I especially hope that there won't be Android-style fragmentation that you must buy specific phone or you won't ever see Sailfish OS updates | 12:27 |
| SpeedEvil | That is an unfortunate issue | 12:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | If you have hardware fragmentation - at some point someones got to put man-hours into the smooth running of upgrades, there is no alternative. | 12:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - woman-hours. | 12:28 |
| zett_zelett | Didn’t they say they will introduce a new Jolla by the end of this year? So are they still doing that or have they renounced that somewhere? | 12:29 |
| zett_zelett | Man, I hope puzzlephone will (sooner or later) support Sailfish OS. | 12:30 |
| attah | zett_zelett: fans tend to read too much wishful thinking in to just about anything.. I know of nothing even close to official about there even being a new phone planned | 12:31 |
| zett_zelett | Oh, okay. | 12:32 |
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| Venemo_j | yes, they are introducing a new jolla. it's the jolla tablet. | 12:38 |
| zett_zelett | I meant a phone, of course. | 12:38 |
| Venemo_j | :P | 12:38 |
| Venemo_j | just sayin | 12:38 |
| zett_zelett | Ya, thanks. Not interested in the tablet, though. | 12:38 |
| zett_zelett | Well, not yet. | 12:39 |
| zett_zelett | (Savin’ my nickles for a nice phone.) | 12:39 |
| the_mgt | anyone here ordered a Textblade? are they already shipping yours? | 12:40 |
| SpeedEvil | it is a shame the tablet diddn't hit the phone goal | 12:40 |
| ShawnMcCool | t | 12:40 |
| attah | the_mgt: Is it BLE only? | 12:42 |
| *** electrolux_off is now known as electrolux | 12:43 | |
| Venemo_j | SpeedEvil: would be weird to hold a 8" device to your head for a phone call | 12:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | Venemo_j: meh | 12:46 |
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| Venemo_j | SpeedEvil: why? | 12:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Venemo_j: ... 6" 5" 4" | 12:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Pretty soon we will be using 96" tablets as phones and combined roofs. | 12:47 |
| Venemo_j | around 6" is the threshold for me | 12:47 |
| Venemo_j | heh :D | 12:47 |
| SpeedEvil | More seriously - the nexus 7 2013 I can conveniently hold in one hand while maintaining a secure grip. | 12:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Without straining. | 12:48 |
| the_mgt | attah: can tell you when it arrived | 12:48 |
| SpeedEvil | You can fit an 8" display in the same width - though the jolla does not regrettably do this. | 12:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Any smaller hands, and yes, problems. | 12:48 |
| SpeedEvil | But practically speaking - more from the point of everywhere internet ratehr than phone. | 12:49 |
| SpeedEvil | I have made 2 calls on my jolla, and it's my main mobile. | 12:49 |
| attah | the_mgt: :) | 12:50 |
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| the_mgt | my shipping window is august, which is only 9 more days... | 12:52 |
| Venemo_j | SpeedEvil: I see | 12:53 |
| Venemo_j | IIRC it's bigger (wider) than the nexus 7 | 12:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Venemo_j: yes | 12:53 |
| Venemo_j | anyway, maybe it's gonna be possible to use tethering with it | 12:54 |
| Venemo_j | the only thing bothering me is that I have no idea how to grip a device of that size on public transport | 12:55 |
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| * attah presses 1 for factory reset | 13:00 | |
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| Victor | hi | 13:21 |
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| Venemo_j | hi | 13:25 |
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| attah | [ERROR] Flashed recovery image is too old and does not support phone clearing. | 13:50 |
| attah | FML | 13:50 |
| attah | "A: For some reason it seems your device was unable to retrieve the file from the Memory Card." wut? | 13:53 |
| attah | what does factory reset have to do with the sd card? | 13:54 |
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| Stskeeps | attah: there's a TJC post to solve that | 13:58 |
| Stskeeps | afaik | 13:58 |
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| attah | Stskeeps: Found it.. i think. I'll try a new copy of the recovery menu | 14:00 |
| the_mgt | Stskeeps: did you order a Textblade? | 14:00 |
| tiwake | woo, jolla tablet is shipping in a couple'a three weeks | 14:01 |
| attah | Stskeeps: maybe i found the wrong post.. but using a new menu gives exactly the same output | 14:02 |
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| *** electrolux is now known as electrolux_off | 14:16 | |
| attah | sh: unlock: unknown operand | 14:20 |
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| Venemo_j | is there a way to download all emails in the jolla email app? | 14:31 |
| * attah puts his N9 to charge | 14:33 | |
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| attah | this just keeps getting better | 14:49 |
| * attah fetches second N9 | 14:49 | |
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| Victor | hi, is there anyone working at jolla that can fix a problem in the web page? | 15:55 |
| Victor | (yes, i know is saturday, so is not the best moment to ask, but...) | 15:55 |
| coderus | in finland nobody working in weekend and holidays :) | 15:56 |
| Victor | was worth trying anyway | 15:57 |
| coderus | i thint it should cave contact us section or something you can use for that | 15:58 |
| attah | coderus: in Russia weekend works you? :P | 15:58 |
| tathhu | lol :D | 15:59 |
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| coderus | attah: we're working 24/7 | 16:02 |
| coderus | there is no laws for that | 16:03 |
| attah | :/ | 16:04 |
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| pdanek | If Sailfish device sales will grow like 1000x more in 2016. | 17:21 |
| pdanek | And Jolla will get super-rich. | 17:21 |
| pdanek | How do you imagine change of the company? | 17:21 |
| pdanek | Hiring hundreds of new employees? | 17:21 |
| *** electrolux is now known as electrolux_off | 17:22 | |
| Victor | it will start acting more selfish and care less about users and community | 17:22 |
| pdanek | How the money could be invested? | 17:22 |
| pdanek | right | 17:22 |
| Coolgeek | Victor: bad pun | 17:22 |
| Stskeeps | Victor: that would probably only happen at the loss of a majority of key employees | 17:23 |
| Stskeeps | Victor: it sits very deepily in us | 17:23 |
| pdanek | Well, if majority of users and community will be Indian teenagers. | 17:24 |
| Victor | Stskeeps: I don't think there is anything wrong with the people currently developing jolla. Actually I just bought the jolla smartphone a few minutes ago because I like what you're doing, but when you grow you get new challenges | 17:24 |
| pdanek | And "we" will be just 1%. | 17:24 |
| Stskeeps | Victor: sure | 17:24 |
| Victor | and most of the time the way of dealing with this new challenges is doing non-nice things | 17:24 |
| Victor | this might mean that as the company grows people get replaced, sure | 17:24 |
| pdanek | And all will yell: we want native angry birds! and shiny sharks | 17:24 |
| Stskeeps | Victor: the thing is also if the company will even grow, fwiw; and how much is outsourced | 17:25 |
| tathhu | pdanek: yeah, soon that angry birds will be most voted TJC-question :P | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | stuff like (sw) care is outsourceable | 17:25 |
| tathhu | -that | 17:25 |
| Victor | Stskeeps: well, the initial discussion started assuming the company will be 1000x | 17:25 |
| Victor | :) | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | true | 17:25 |
| pdanek | It's not too hard to imagine, 1000x, considering how tiny Jolla is now. | 17:26 |
| Coolgeek | the real question is: when SFOS will take over android ? | 17:26 |
| Victor | Stskeeps: in any case, outsourcing is not the panacea. Outsourcing creates a lot of problems, the biggest one is quality | 17:26 |
| Stskeeps | Victor: oh yes | 17:26 |
| pdanek | And I mentioned 1000x device sales, not 1000x employees | 17:26 |
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| pdanek | So if Jolla sold 20k device, it must sell 20 million in 2016 | 17:27 |
| pdanek | devices* | 17:27 |
| Victor | I guess the best outcome is jolla growing and never becoming dominant | 17:27 |
| Stskeeps | well, remember there's a splitup now, sailfish and the jolla devices | 17:27 |
| Victor | having a big market share, but not big enough to set the rules of the game | 17:28 |
| Stskeeps | Victor: becoming a majority or monopoly is never good for innovation | 17:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:28 |
| pdanek | India itself will probably sell more than 500+ million smartphones in 2016. | 17:28 |
| Victor | Stskeeps: that's what I was saying :) | 17:28 |
| pdanek | Stskeeps: but it's good for apps | 17:29 |
| pdanek | Isn't smartphone all about apps? | 17:29 |
| Coolgeek | you mean that android == IOS then ? | 17:29 |
| Coolgeek | because they have the same apps | 17:29 |
| Coolgeek | almost | 17:29 |
| pdanek | Monopolies always catch up with innovation anyway, they have money to do it. Some other small company will appear, do innovation and Jolla and new megacorporation will copy it. | 17:30 |
| pdanek | and Jolla, the new megacorporation will copy it. | 17:30 |
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| Stskeeps | pdanek: some might argue that smartphones are all about dominating people's time and minds.. | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | apps is just a vehicle | 17:33 |
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| pdanek | If I have to book my hotel via webpage on my phone, it dominates my precious time. | 17:34 |
| pdanek | If I do it via Android app, it's 3x faster. | 17:34 |
| pdanek | Sadly people don't do mobile versions of web anymore, we have to deal with it. | 17:34 |
| pdanek | It's all about apps now, we like it or not. | 17:35 |
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| Stskeeps | well, that wasn't exactly my point :) | 17:40 |
| zett_zelett | Does this channel have a log? If so, where can I find it? | 17:40 |
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| Stskeeps | zett_zelett: it's listed in the topic | 17:45 |
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| Stskeeps | (as is custom) | 17:45 |
| zett_zelett | Aaaaah, yes. Thanks. I’ve looked, but I must have overlooked it. | 17:46 |
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| cybrNaut | pdanek: fairphone i one of few progressive, forward-thinking phones. what I don't like is that open-source is neglected from their agenda. | 18:18 |
| cybrNaut | i would be on-board with any FOSS phone, but no such thing exists | 18:19 |
| Stskeeps | i wouldn't say it's neglected, just constrained by market issues | 18:19 |
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| cybrNaut | pdanek: another interesting jolla phone would be Yotaphone, which is rumored to possibly make the switch from android to jolla | 18:19 |
| cybrNaut | Stskeeps: not sure what you're getting at. it's neglected by the market | 18:20 |
| Stskeeps | cybrNaut: as in sometimes it's hard being oss when you're doing mediatek phones :) | 18:21 |
| cybrNaut | AFAIK, you just send the hardware plans to china and they will build it. There's no reason a phone maker cannot make a FOSS component | 18:21 |
| cybrNaut | but they all take the short-sighted approach of taking something COTS | 18:22 |
| Stskeeps | well, it's not that easy :) | 18:23 |
| cybrNaut | Stskeeps: just takes a pair of balls. Corporations fear risk. They like low-hanging fruit. | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | cybrNaut: the problem is that a lot of the weight is in ODMs nowadays | 18:26 |
| cybrNaut | odm? | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | original device manufacturer | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | most companies nowadays use ODM companies that do a lot of the sw weight | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | and hardware | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | and convincing them is as big effort | 18:27 |
| temmi_hoo | also, the silicon vendors might release support only as nda-only-binary-blob | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | not so much a 'might'.. :P | 18:28 |
| temmi_hoo | it's take it or leave it, they're not very easy to convince they had to release specs of their hw so that someone coud write oss drivers for it | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | some might even think the linux kernel for a device they sell to you is business secret | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | (true story) | 18:28 |
| temmi_hoo | if you're big you could do it but the bigs don't seem to want to | 18:28 |
| cybrNaut | you're talking about buying canned components | 18:28 |
| temmi_hoo | are you talking about making your own components then? | 18:29 |
| cybrNaut | chinese hardware makers will simply make whatever is ordered | 18:29 |
| Stskeeps | cybrNaut: not really | 18:29 |
| cybrNaut | give them your specs, and they will build it. why not? | 18:29 |
| Stskeeps | cybrNaut: i've been part of the sourcing and evaluations for jolla1/tablet and a few other things, it's certainly knocked me down a few notches in terms of my idealism (and you can find those posts online..) | 18:29 |
| Stskeeps | hardware makers can be really difficult to dance with | 18:30 |
| cybrNaut | i've seen cheap SDR hardware coming from china. So you order an SDR from china, and do the software in India, why not? | 18:32 |
| Stskeeps | try getting that certified and OK'ed for entering onto cellular networks.. | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | i admire what you're getting at though; i wish the world was a hell lot simpler today | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | but i don't think it's going to be with mobile phones | 18:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - in the UK - for example - it is simply illegal to sell a phone that can change IMEI | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | it'll be with things that contain stuff like http://www.sierrawireless.com/productsandservices/airprime_wireless_modules/smart_modules/wp_series/ | 18:34 |
| SpeedEvil | With actual criminal penalties. | 18:34 |
| SpeedEvil | So you're going to need to - even if only for approvals purposes - make the firmware for the phone part closed. | 18:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Or rather - unwritable | 18:34 |
| cybrNaut | SpeedEvil: any phone can have the IMEI changed. It's not the device that's illegal in the UK, it's the act | 18:34 |
| SpeedEvil | cybrNaut: not quite | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | a lot of modems have it fused in by now | 18:35 |
| SpeedEvil | cybrNaut: once you start to sell a device that can change the IMEI of a phone (and the phone matches that definition) - and are told about it - you are committing an offence by continuing to sell it. | 18:35 |
| SpeedEvil | (this offence was brought in in ~1995 or so) | 18:35 |
| cybrNaut | SpeedEvil: do you have a list of phones that cannot be sold in the UK? | 18:35 |
| cybrNaut | not many phones could be sold there if that were true | 18:36 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm talking of the law, and its definitions. | 18:36 |
| SpeedEvil | The issue is if anyone cares enough to prosecute | 18:36 |
| SpeedEvil | If they do, the penalties are heavy | 18:36 |
| cybrNaut | SpeedEvil: sure, but if you're a phone retailer, you need to comply. You need a blacklist of non-compliant phones (and it would be a /huge/ list) | 18:36 |
| cybrNaut | people are often changing their IMEI numbers on accident | 18:37 |
| SpeedEvil | cybrNaut: I suspect it's not hugely widespread, so prosecutions are not done | 18:37 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/31/contents | 18:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Mobile Telephones (Re-programming) Act 2002 | 18:37 |
| SpeedEvil | (2)A person commits an offence if— | 18:38 |
| SpeedEvil | (a)he supplies anything which may be used for the purpose of changing or interfering with the operation of a unique device identifier, and | 18:38 |
| SpeedEvil | (b)he knows or believes that the person to whom the thing is supplied intends to use it unlawfully for that purpose or to allow it to be used unlawfully for that purpose. | 18:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | So it's risky. But this is only the specific point. No national radio authority would licence a changeable SDR radio code | 18:39 |
| SpeedEvil | ^device with | 18:39 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a depressing state of affairs. | 18:39 |
| * SpeedEvil plugs in his jolla. | 18:40 | |
| cybrNaut | SpeedEvil: you're misinterpretting the law. the phone itself is not contraband. A device which assists with changing the imei (e.g. a chipping device) is what's being banned tehre | 18:41 |
| cybrNaut | otherwise brits would all have to give up their gsm phones and start over | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | cybrNaut: the problem is that you don't read the law that way. In general, what it is for is irrelevant. What the law actually says is relevant. | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | And what is prosecuted is yet another | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Sorry - I shouldn't have brought it up - I've been reading boring legislation all day | 18:42 |
| *** electrolux_off is now known as electrolux | 18:42 | |
| cybrNaut | SpeedEvil: so you have caselaw to the contrary? can you cite that? | 18:42 |
| cybrNaut | i really doubt the law has been interpretted to ban any particular phone itself | 18:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Your point would be valid if id said 'supplies a device to change an identifier' | 18:43 |
| SpeedEvil | but it says 'supplies anything' | 18:43 |
| cybrNaut | "he supplies anything which may be used for the purpose of changing or interfering with the operation of a unique device identifier, and" | 18:43 |
| SpeedEvil | and 'may be used' not 'for which the primary purpose' | 18:43 |
| cybrNaut | SpeedEvil: the purpose of a phone is not to change its own IMEI number | 18:43 |
| SpeedEvil | cybrNaut: That is not the sole purpose. However it is one of its capabilities. And the 'may be used' brings that in. | 18:44 |
| SpeedEvil | On a more on topic note. | 18:45 |
| cybrNaut | SpeedEvil: it's not a capability because it's not even a feature of a phone. When people change the IMEI number, they are *hacking* | 18:45 |
| SpeedEvil | cybrNaut: I'm talking of a phone with a completely open software baseband | 18:45 |
| cybrNaut | no phone has a feature by which the purpose is to alter the IMEI | 18:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Anyway. | 18:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Do 64G microSDs work without issue, or are there problems. | 18:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Sorry for bringing it up | 18:46 |
| cybrNaut | SpeedEvil: open or closed, it's the same. Either way there is not an IMEI-altering feature | 18:46 |
| cybrNaut | open phones are more easily hacked.. but it's still hacking | 18:46 |
| cybrNaut | i know a FOSS SDR-based gsm stack would be a fight, but it would be a tough win for the government. The FCC would be hard-pressed to say a product cannot be licensed because it's software based | 18:49 |
| cybrNaut | consdering qualcomm is SDR-based (iirc) | 18:50 |
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| cybrNaut | it's just proprietary SDR | 18:50 |
| SpeedEvil | The issue is not that it's SDR, but that it's user-modifiable. | 18:53 |
| SpeedEvil | The worst-case is you get a popular phone doing this, and then someone launches a 'send files fast to your friends' app. | 18:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Which just bypasses the tower, and talks direct - nuking dozens of possibly emergency calls in progress. | 18:54 |
| cybrNaut | there already is a user modifiable gsm stack, no? osmocom, iirc? | 18:56 |
| cybrNaut | http://osmocom.org/ | 18:57 |
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| Victor | hi | 19:12 |
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| Pawky|2 | WTF, why is bluetooth tethering no longer supported on 1.1.7.27 ??? | 20:11 |
| Pawky|2 | Did I just make my phone useless by upgrade to this version? | 20:13 |
| coderus | ??? | 20:19 |
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| pdanek | wow | 21:10 |
| pdanek | have you guys registered the news about OpenSUSE Leap? | 21:10 |
| pdanek | that's huge | 21:10 |
| pdanek | And I guess Tumbleweed will be now rolling from SLES source as well. | 21:11 |
| tiwake | what about SUSE? | 21:12 |
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| pdanek | tiwake: OpenSUSE will be now based on SUSE Linux Enterprise, same as CentOS = RHEL. | 21:13 |
| pdanek | radical change of the project | 21:13 |
| tiwake | I thought it was fedora and red hat... | 21:14 |
| tiwake | oh no | 21:15 |
| tiwake | fedora is red hat's testing ground, more or less, from what I understand | 21:15 |
| Victor | wasn't opensuse the same for suse? | 21:15 |
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| pdanek | Victor: it wasn't | 21:18 |
| pdanek | OpenSUSE is/was completely independent from SUSE Linux Enterprise last few years | 21:18 |
| pdanek | Different distribution basically. | 21:19 |
| pdanek | Now OpenSUSE will become something like CentOS, based on SLES releases. | 21:19 |
| Victor | I see | 21:22 |
| pdanek | OpenSUSE Leap will be aligned with SUSE Linux Enterprise releases. | 21:22 |
| pdanek | And OpenSUSE Tumbleweed will be rolling based distro, much like Arch, also coming from SUSE Linux Enterprise, but with newest and latest, but well tested and stabilized. | 21:22 |
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| pdanek | OpenSUSE Tumbleweed actually exists from last year, but now it's changing to SLE versions. | 21:22 |
| pdanek | package versions* | 21:23 |
| pdanek | Thta's how I underdstand it. | 21:23 |
| pdanek | I just read about the stuff maybe 20 min ago | 21:23 |
| pdanek | I'm only curious if future state of OpenSUSE Tumbleweed will be more stable than Fedora. | 21:25 |
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| * lpotter uses susestudio is make custom suse | 21:33 | |
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| dr_gogeta86 | hi lpotter | 21:40 |
| dr_gogeta86 | why help and not made ? | 21:40 |
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