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| zhxt | morning | 00:37 |
|---|---|---|
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| HtheB | hi | 00:55 |
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| pp | hehe, so mwcshanghai and then summer vacation :D | 07:50 |
| pp | ... and update is delayed again, THANKS OPENSSL | 07:53 |
| Yaniel | wut | 07:54 |
| pp | https://grahamcluley.com/2015/07/mystery-high-severity-bug-openssl/ | 07:54 |
| pp | and https://twitter.com/AnttiSaarnio/status/618268562180870144 | 07:54 |
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| Nicd- | oh openssl, yet again | 08:37 |
| entil | whatever they'll announce will be delayed for at least two months ;P | 08:38 |
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| Stskeeps | tablet delayed due to openssl? | 08:38 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:38 |
| ggabriel | the big question is: will I get excited too? | 08:38 |
| entil | very few news are worth the advance buzz | 08:39 |
| ggabriel | what do you mean sailfish isn't using libressl? :P | 08:39 |
| Yaniel | ^ | 08:39 |
| entil | just drop the surprise on people and it'll be better | 08:39 |
| ggabriel | well, if you want attention, you have to create the thrill | 08:39 |
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| entil | in some cases, yes, but jolla is still a startup with understandable delays, and as much as I love my tohkbd, that was a buzz thing and it was delayed as well, so when people come from a mindset of delays, just let them be and drop the surprises on them :P | 08:40 |
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| Obi-Lan | tadzik: black / white with curly birch back. I was planning to sell phone and keyboard as a "bundle" so that I get rid of both | 09:42 |
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| tadzik | Obi-Lan: ah. I may be interested in tohkbd if sold separately | 09:56 |
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| chem|st | Obi-Lan: 50eur for both... | 10:38 |
| dr_gogeta86 | http://events.ccc.de/camp/2015/wiki/Static:Network#Jolla.2Fconnman | 10:40 |
| dr_gogeta86 | are SBJ a l33t Phone ? | 10:40 |
| ggabriel | depends | 10:44 |
| ggabriel | a lot of self proclaimed l33t use android | 10:44 |
| ggabriel | or even worse, windows :P | 10:44 |
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| Sail0r | https://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/53_JOLLA_COMPANY_STRUCTURE_JULY2015_FINAL.PDF | 11:09 |
| entil | meh, I thought that was always known to happen | 11:12 |
| mornfall | well, we can only hope this isn't an euphemism for dropping the device business | 11:14 |
| Stskeeps | we only use sailor terms for euphemisms | 11:15 |
| mornfall | s,dropping,sinking, :P | 11:15 |
| Coolgeek | hu ? | 11:15 |
| Coolgeek | I tought about buying one of those phone. is it goind down ? | 11:15 |
| Coolgeek | thought* | 11:15 |
| ggabriel | Coolgeek: read the pdf | 11:16 |
| mornfall | Coolgeek: not more than for the last 18 months, no ;-P | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | no, you can still very much buy a jolla phone :) | 11:16 |
| ggabriel | if anything, it's good news | 11:16 |
| * ggabriel wonders wo | 11:17 | |
| mornfall | btw. the bit about Tomi Pienimäki is kinda unclear, is he leaving Jolla? | 11:18 |
| * ggabriel ^H^Hwho will fund the devices business | 11:18 | |
| ggabriel | yes | 11:18 |
| ggabriel | how is it unclear? | 11:18 |
| mornfall | well, I have no clue what is the connection to the rest of the text | 11:18 |
| ggabriel | "has been appointed to a new position outside the company" | 11:18 |
| mornfall | and someone (else, probably) is going to head the devices firm | 11:19 |
| ggabriel | that will be announced soon ;) | 11:19 |
| mornfall | not saying whom, but maybe we are supposed to infer it's Tomi? | 11:19 |
| ggabriel | (during this autumn) | 11:19 |
| ggabriel | i wouldn't assume that | 11:20 |
| mornfall | the press release is in the best tradition of confusing communication from Jolla | 11:20 |
| ggabriel | but could be | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | mornfall: Finnish media says non-Jolla | 11:20 |
| ggabriel | maybe i'm missing something, but to me it's 100% clear | 11:20 |
| mornfall | this sounds a bit like 'we are falling apart, but everything is totally fine!' ... | 11:21 |
| ggabriel | funny how that's the first reaction | 11:21 |
| pp | yep, vincit | 11:21 |
| ggabriel | but nobody ever says that when HP among others fire 30x the size of jolla | 11:21 |
| chem|st | that outsourcing devices is that devices will be sailfish-secure (from what I read) | 11:22 |
| mornfall | ggabriel: well, why would you put 'we are losing our CEO and our hardware division' in a single press release anyway... | 11:22 |
| Stskeeps | s/losing/changing/g | 11:22 |
| chem|st | mornfall: they swapped positions depending on what is next in the past | 11:23 |
| ggabriel | you change, yeah | 11:23 |
| ggabriel | not sure why that looks like losing | 11:23 |
| Stskeeps | and it's pretty clear that SW is the future for sailfish anyway | 11:23 |
| kimmoli | Pienimäki is moving to Vincit Group Oy | 11:23 |
| pp | how big was the hardware division anyway :-) | 11:23 |
| mornfall | all I say is that the release is sending a rather confusing message, ami slipping tablet schedule | 11:23 |
| chem|st | that is actually a good idea to have always that person with the most experience in the next steps be the ceo | 11:23 |
| mornfall | amid* | 11:24 |
| chem|st | mornfall: slipping tablet was in blog post yesterday | 11:24 |
| mornfall | and a month before that, yes | 11:24 |
| chem|st | mornfall: swapping positions happened before | 11:24 |
| mornfall | dressed up like it was good news, too :P | 11:24 |
| chem|st | mornfall: device business was told to be seized but now gets outsourced for sailfish-secure | 11:25 |
| chem|st | mornfall: the only news there is that tomi leaves | 11:25 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: +1 | 11:26 |
| ggabriel | also, that they'll spin off a device business, but i'll believe it when i see it | 11:26 |
| chem|st | and probably that sf-secure is a new company and not a joint-venture | 11:26 |
| chem|st | s/sf-secure/sf-secure-devices | 11:27 |
| * Stskeeps looks forward to his upcoming vacation to be fresh for another year of great possibilities | 11:34 | |
| Nicd- | ooh now the news is public | 11:35 |
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| Stskeeps | ooi what does vincit do anyway? | 11:38 |
| Nicd- | software | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 11:38 |
| Nicd- | I think software contractor is an appropriate term? anyway we make programs that clients give us money for | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | consultants | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | maybe | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | dunno :) | 11:39 |
| Nicd- | I don't know the English terms | 11:39 |
| ggabriel | body shop :P | 11:40 |
| ggabriel | with a nice portal | 11:40 |
| birdzhang | Hey,any news about jolla 2 ? :) | 11:44 |
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| Stskeeps | birdzhang: not really related but http://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/53_JOLLA_COMPANY_STRUCTURE_JULY2015_FINAL.PDF as a start | 11:46 |
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| birdzhang | wow | 11:50 |
| birdzhang | July 15-17 :D | 11:50 |
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| urs | Soo... will nokia now buy jolla's device section? | 11:53 |
| SfietKonstantinW | urs: IMO: no | 11:53 |
| SfietKonstantinW | Nokia have thier own hardware dep | 11:54 |
| ggabriel | really? | 11:54 |
| pp | not really, they sold it to microsoft | 11:54 |
| ggabriel | didn't they get rid of pretty much everything? | 11:54 |
| ggabriel | i'd be surprised if they still have whiteboards | 11:54 |
| Yaniel | AFAIK nokia is basically only NSN these days | 11:54 |
| pp | NSN, maps, some clever r&d people and patent trolls | 11:55 |
| ggabriel | maps* | 11:55 |
| ggabriel | ;) | 11:55 |
| ggabriel | wasn't that on sale? | 11:55 |
| SfietKonstantinW | pp: the Nokia N1 is from Nokia | 11:56 |
| SfietKonstantinW | foxcom makes it | 11:56 |
| SfietKonstantinW | but they designed it | 11:56 |
| tadzik | ah, so the new company will not be called Jolla anymore | 11:57 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | jolla mobile oy i guess | 11:57 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | https://www.ytj.fi/yritystiedot.aspx?yavain=2529240&kielikoodi=1&tarkiste=A0B9DF8395E0E603BE8DF4D8091E3784178B2DC7&path=1547;1631;1678 | 11:59 |
| SfietKonstantinW | isn't Jolla Mobile Oy the name of Jolla currently ? | 12:00 |
| SfietKonstantinW | or is it Jolla Oy ? | 12:00 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | Jolla Oy | 12:00 |
| Stskeeps | SfietKonstantinW: no, jolla oy | 12:00 |
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| chem|st | tadzik: I doubt that customers will feel a difference | 12:02 |
| ggabriel | same address :) | 12:02 |
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| tadzik | prolly not | 12:03 |
| chem|st | one side effect is one can go bankrupt without the other | 12:03 |
| ggabriel | that's normally seen as a benefit in small companies | 12:04 |
| ggabriel | as there is less risk | 12:04 |
| chem|st | +1 | 12:04 |
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| ggabriel | and less things to explain to stakeholders | 12:04 |
| ggabriel | who normally know nothing about anything | 12:04 |
| chem|st | you can try things without getting the main company into jopardy | 12:04 |
| * ggabriel loves vc's | 12:04 | |
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| dr_gogeta86 | Stskeeps, I hope into an increasing quality of the whole thing | 12:19 |
| dr_gogeta86 | if you need to make changes to survive | 12:19 |
| dr_gogeta86 | I agree | 12:19 |
| ggabriel | more $$ => more quality | 12:20 |
| ggabriel | it's simple | 12:20 |
| dr_gogeta86 | sammmy for example more $$ => copycat ? | 12:20 |
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| rigo | :( What will be the hardware? Didn't it make sufficient money? | 13:37 |
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| ggabriel | rigo: no, not really :) | 13:47 |
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| rigo | :( How come Apple is making so much more money with Hardware? | 14:07 |
| ggabriel | people buy their products because steve jobs was "cool"? | 14:07 |
| ggabriel | but they'll eventually die | 14:07 |
| ggabriel | they haven't innovated in years | 14:07 |
| ggabriel | and at some point people will realize that | 14:08 |
| tadzik | nah, I think people actually buy it because it's pretty good | 14:10 |
| chem|st | tadzik: doubt that | 14:11 |
| tadzik | at least that's the case for people I know who buy their stuff | 14:11 |
| ggabriel | tadzik: it became better, but remember the first iphone | 14:11 |
| ggabriel | and even today you can only take purple pictures with it :P | 14:12 |
| tadzik | it used to surprise me when I saw tech people using macs and iphones, but I quickly found that they're just pragmatically buying it, not because they're mindless zealots | 14:12 |
| chem|st | tadzik: people buy apple for three reasons, they know android and can afford it, they know android and know how to save money, it is hipster | 14:12 |
| ggabriel | well, i did buy a powerbook g4 in the past because the price was alright and i could do a number of things with it then | 14:13 |
| dr_gogeta86 | ios works | 14:13 |
| dr_gogeta86 | android not | 14:13 |
| chem|st | tadzik: don't know iP6 but all previous versions had massive hardware flaws and software wise, well one button to rule them all is nothing I could ever adapt to | 14:13 |
| ggabriel | now it just doesn't make sense as all the intel macs are of lower build quality and super pricey | 14:13 |
| tadzik | chem|st: I don't follow: they know android and can afford... android? iphone? | 14:13 |
| tadzik | know how to save money on what, iphones, androids? | 14:13 |
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| chem|st | tadzik: buy apple | 14:13 |
| * rigo doesn't believe in money making software, especially not based in this open source. But I believe in money making hardware that is combined with good software | 14:14 | |
| tadzik | chem|st: I think ip6 was the one that bent, actually | 14:14 |
| tadzik | chem|st: why would I | 14:14 |
| ggabriel | rigo: ever heard of redhat? :P | 14:14 |
| chem|st | tadzik: you are drunnk | 14:14 |
| tadzik | no, I'm not | 14:14 |
| tadzik | but I understand you're trolling, so I'll just leave it at that | 14:14 |
| chem|st | tadzik: what part of "people buy apple for three reasons" didn't you understand | 14:14 |
| tadzik | the 2/3 of that sentence that doesn't mention apple at all | 14:15 |
| rigo | ggabriel: of course, but they aren't making money on user facing software | 14:15 |
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| chem|st | tadzik: same sentence... | 14:15 |
| tadzik | nevermind | 14:15 |
| narchie | but | 14:15 |
| narchie | apple doesn't ship may 2015 | 14:15 |
| ggabriel | rigo: is that relevant? | 14:15 |
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| rigo | I believe so | 14:16 |
| ggabriel | how come? | 14:16 |
| tadzik | it seems that iphones and ipads are like the gaming consoles in a way: obviously more expensive and technically inferior, but end up being a decent experience for users because it's trivial for developers to aim at a uniform hardware+software stack | 14:17 |
| ggabriel | tadzik: i have to agree partly with chem|st's fanboism statement as I find myself troubleshooting very basic stuff for friends with iThings | 14:18 |
| tadzik | I don't think it's different on any other platform ever | 14:18 |
| tadzik | my linux laptop doesn't react to the power button | 14:19 |
| ggabriel | so then your argument about superior ux is invalid | 14:19 |
| tadzik | my windows pc at work cannot be forced to make use of my trackpoint properly | 14:19 |
| tadzik | wait, which | 14:19 |
| ggabriel | unless you refer to users needing support in all platforms but that you believe that overall ios's ux is better than android's etc | 14:19 |
| tadzik | I don't believe I said that | 14:20 |
| Acce | most people I know just buy Apple because they have been projected the image of them being better than Android | 14:20 |
| Acce | this being the people who are clueless about technology | 14:20 |
| ggabriel | tadzik: you said that people buy ithings because they provide a better ux? or did i misunderstand? (you also said they work better, or they just work) | 14:20 |
| sharpneli | On the other hand iPhones indeed are far better than android in several applications. | 14:20 |
| sharpneli | Audio stack is a good example | 14:20 |
| ggabriel | (nothing wrong with that tadzik - my next biz phone will be an iphone because it "works better than android") | 14:21 |
| tadzik | ggabriel: no, I said that people buy iThings because they consider them to be good | 14:21 |
| ggabriel | tadzik: ok, fair enough | 14:21 |
| sharpneli | And touch screen latency. It's simply impossible to make a real music playing app (as in a piano keyboard) for Android devices | 14:21 |
| ggabriel | so the real question is why they consider it good | 14:21 |
| ggabriel | and i'd agree with fanboism there | 14:21 |
| sharpneli | Because it takes around 200ms for the sound to come on Android. | 14:21 |
| tadzik | ggabriel: then again, I never used iPhone for more than a few minutes, given my experience with android I don't think anything can suck any more than that :) | 14:21 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: very basic is sometimes "holding a spoon" | 14:21 |
| tadzik | s/given/but given/ | 14:21 |
| ggabriel | sharpneli: i doubt any of the people i know looked at the android sound stack :P | 14:21 |
| sharpneli | ggabriel: It was just an example of a real performance difference. How an user will see it: You have good music apps on app store but barely any on google play | 14:22 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: exactly, and that's my point and that proves that the ux is crap | 14:22 |
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| sharpneli | And the touch screen latency causes the UI to feel really sluggish for some people. On iPhones a scroll or anything like that starts within few tens of ms. On android it can take hundreds. So it feels unresponsive to a certain portion of population. | 14:23 |
| ggabriel | sharpneli: you should try my iphone 4 :P | 14:23 |
| chem|st | sharpneli: people posting pixeled or unsharp pictures on FB are 99% apple fanboys | 14:23 |
| sharpneli | ggabriel: Add a disclaimer "non updated iPhone" :D | 14:23 |
| sharpneli | ggabriel: Because every damn iOS update always makes the older phones feel like shit, for obvious marketing reasons. | 14:24 |
| ggabriel | sharpneli: ...forcing you to buy another ithing | 14:24 |
| chem|st | tadzik: that is why I said people who know android buy apple if they can afford it... | 14:24 |
| ggabriel | i agree with chem|st 100% there, at least judging by the people i know | 14:25 |
| sharpneli | chem|st: Sure. Just wanted to point out that there are areas where iDevices are technically superior to android ones. And there aint really anything from the opposite direction. | 14:25 |
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| tadzik | chem|st: that's what I was trying to get: buy *apple* if they can afford it. Now I'm not confused, thanks | 14:25 |
| tadzik | and yes, for that reason I'd be more inclined to buy an iphone than an android phone | 14:26 |
| tadzik | with no fanboyism attached | 14:26 |
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| chem|st | we had a discussion about iPhones lately with an iP6 user at the table, two women stated that they despise iPhones because of the weak touchscreen performance, end of it all was that nothing but the iPhone6 camera is supprerior to the phones on the table, comparison was 4 different androids in the <350eur range... and even that was just slightly better than Jolla | 14:28 |
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| ggabriel | chem|st: superior camera with purple pictures? :P | 14:29 |
| chem|st | tadzik: it was a pretty simple sentence | 14:30 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: tinted does happen in odd light conditions on close to all phone cameras, including N9 and N900 | 14:31 |
| chem|st | it is the auto whitebalance that does not work properly it seems | 14:31 |
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| chem|st | adding up with sensor colour quality limitations | 14:32 |
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| rigo | ggabriel: sorry, got distracted by phone. I still believe that the integration of hardware & software is the better option. There is no pairing to the linux desktop. Redhat never made money with desktops, only with servers. As is IBM. | 15:43 |
| tiwake | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Jolla-Split-Device-License | 15:43 |
| rigo | but I don't see this happening on the frontend side. So to me, the jolla device is one ensemble that gets me out of the google or apple world | 15:44 |
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| rigo | because it allows me to do things differently. And I do not believe in the fantastic UI and bla. I had Citroen cars with better UI than most cars, ok. | 15:45 |
| rigo | I rather believe in a phone that has an openSSH server on it | 15:45 |
| rigo | and a native linux on it | 15:45 |
| rigo | and no nudging towards some silo | 15:45 |
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| rigo | but looks like they are not given the time to become famous enough and to succeed | 15:46 |
| rigo | jolla is at 80% before the networking effects kick in | 15:47 |
| rigo | but anyway | 15:47 |
| rigo | </rant> | 15:47 |
| rigo | I'll try to get one before they stop making them | 15:47 |
| rigo | I also have a working N9 after all :) | 15:47 |
| chem|st | rigo: if Jolla fails I will probably stop buying smartphones until some other linux company suits my needs | 15:49 |
| chem|st | just like after N9, I did not buy anything until Jolla, I still have a working N900 and N9 | 15:50 |
| Stskeeps | rigo: in practice it's about knowing how to do good products and work with what's available on HW's nowadays | 15:50 |
| chem|st | I would pay 800eur for a state of the are N900 like device | 15:50 |
| Stskeeps | first one can be brought to ODMs just fine | 15:50 |
| chem|st | exploiting cheap android hw supplies, just like Wii made anything with gyro/accelerometers darn cheap | 15:52 |
| dr_gogeta86 | chem|st, cheap ... and also expencive | 15:53 |
| chem|st | dr_gogeta86: ? | 15:53 |
| dr_gogeta86 | Cheap devices sometime rely on cheap hacks to get the things done | 15:54 |
| dr_gogeta86 | just see chinese mtk | 15:54 |
| dr_gogeta86 | this is pretty cheap on ODM | 15:57 |
| dr_gogeta86 | http://it.wikomobile.com/m546-RIDGE-4G | 15:57 |
| dr_gogeta86 | and quiet Cheap on Shelf | 15:57 |
| dr_gogeta86 | but something like One+ | 15:59 |
| dr_gogeta86 | was a good showcase | 15:59 |
| dr_gogeta86 | but until the ports aren't good like Jolla Phone | 15:59 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | we talk about nothing | 16:00 |
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| ggabriel | rigo: uhm... yours is a valid believe, but look at what m$ did a couple of decades ago | 16:21 |
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| ggabriel | sailfish may well survive in the same model | 16:21 |
| ggabriel | and this isn't exactly the android model, well at least hopefully | 16:21 |
| ggabriel | also, hopefully the spinoff will continue selling jolla 1's :P | 16:23 |
| ggabriel | or they do a massive slae and i'll get another one | 16:23 |
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| r0kk3rz | which company gets 'together'? i would assume the software division | 16:31 |
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| r0kk3rz | as theres only so much input you can have on hardware | 16:32 |
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| rigo | ggabriel: and look how m$ is desperately trying to get back into the mobile market without any chance. | 16:48 |
| rigo | first they tried the licensing model that works so well on desktops for them | 16:48 |
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| rigo | then they wrecked several billions | 16:49 |
| rigo | then they wrecked nokia | 16:49 |
| rigo | splitting will be deadly IMHO. But that's just me and I'm not in the board of jolla and have no actual counts | 16:50 |
| pdanek | "We have now decided to continue the Jolla devices business under a new company,focusing on security enhanced devices." | 16:50 |
| Stskeeps | rigo: they were big before, though | 16:51 |
| pdanek | New BlackBerry? | 16:51 |
| rigo | maybe, when the reserved time with m$ runs out, jolla will provide the software for new nokia phones, if they survive until then | 16:51 |
| rigo | nobody wants security phones. They are not usable. Jolla was a good compromise between good enough and usable | 16:52 |
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| rigo | thing missing was running the android apps in a sandboxed virtual machine without giving them a way to store things on hardware :) | 16:52 |
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| sharpneli | I have a strong hunch that the split is because they must fullfill the jolla tablet but at the same time they are required by someone else not to manufacture their own devices anymore | 16:53 |
| sharpneli | So the splitted off company just finishes the tablet and that will be that | 16:53 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: best thing Jolla Mobile can start with is bring Jolla1.1 and tohkbd on stock - as developer devices or even jolla-developer, the sandwich of Jolla1 I suggested years back | 16:54 |
| rigo | sharpneli: this would hint at nokia :) | 16:54 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: with sf-secure hardware of course | 16:54 |
| rigo | chem|st: they can't do that as it would wreck havoc in iPhone space :) | 16:55 |
| rigo | let alone in S4-6 space where you have to charge battery after half a day ... | 16:55 |
| r0kk3rz | rigo: why would this hint at nokia? and not say the recent talks with Russia? | 16:57 |
| rigo | 20 years experience. The russians will not make a phone (or only one that you can handle with a hammer) | 16:58 |
| rigo | unless yandex is getting serious and wants to make the yandex - android | 16:59 |
| rigo | which I can imagine. But they miss the social networking parts for the lock-in needed that is the juicy bit of android | 16:59 |
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| r0kk3rz | well, given the 'local services' rhetoric, surely it would be yandex-sailfish | 17:00 |
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| Stskeeps | sharpneli: the main game is the sw platform; HW is more risky, one botched product (hypothetical) and entire SW platform sinks along with it.. doesn't make sense | 17:25 |
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| pdanek | TMavica: here? | 17:26 |
| sharpneli | Stskeeps: That's true. However to move into the platform game one needs manufacturers to adopt it. | 17:27 |
| sharpneli | I'm waiting eagerly for the announcements | 17:27 |
| Stskeeps | i'm just waiting for my vacatio | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | n | 17:30 |
| r0kk3rz | woo vacation! | 17:30 |
| pdanek | I'm still waiting for Jolla 2!!! | 17:30 |
| pdanek | I already promised my girlfriend 2 months ago that I will buy her Jolla 2, c'monnnn | 17:31 |
| svuorela | Stskeeps: if you get near me, I'll happily buy you a beer on brewpub. | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | svuorela: i'll be in cph for a few hours sometime in august, but will have kiddo and wife along | 17:31 |
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| * Stskeeps looks forward to the future | 17:34 | |
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| Stskeeps | http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/07/mobile-maker-jolla-splits-in-two-with-sailfish-os-its-first-order-of-business/ is a good article, btw | 17:36 |
| pdanek | He said the forthcoming Jolla devices business could even consider using alternative software platforms in addition to Sailfish — by offering multi-OS devices. | 17:38 |
| pdanek | That means everyday user will just switch to Android on 2nd day of use. | 17:38 |
| Stskeeps | wouldn't be so sure about that | 17:40 |
| svuorela | why would anyone go out of the way for a sailfish device just to not use it ? | 17:40 |
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| r0kk3rz | presumably a 'multi-os-device' would be single device that would be sold in different OS flavours | 17:41 |
| pdanek | right | 17:41 |
| r0kk3rz | not a dual-boot phone or anything like that | 17:41 |
| pdanek | ok | 17:41 |
| pdanek | I just need new device soon. | 17:42 |
| pdanek | Jolla is getting old. | 17:42 |
| Stskeeps | kinda like ubuntu's is just same device as their normal android phone? | 17:42 |
| r0kk3rz | the meizu thing, yeah | 17:42 |
| pdanek | Now it's getting time when people's Jolla are getting out of warranty. | 17:43 |
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| pdanek | So it's time for new device now. | 17:43 |
| falfa | i dont agree | 17:43 |
| pdanek | I do think that 2 years is maximum range that should be between 2 devices. | 17:44 |
| r0kk3rz | i think that time frame is going to start stretching | 17:44 |
| r0kk3rz | the phones coming out now arent so far removed from the phones being released two years ago | 17:45 |
| Sidde | is the hardware really so necessary to replace? sure the screen is at a lower end | 17:45 |
| r0kk3rz | they've all got nice screens, decent processing power .etc | 17:45 |
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| Sidde | but do you really need a faster cpu or more ram? | 17:45 |
| Sidde | better written software could solve a lot of problem | 17:45 |
| r0kk3rz | the jphone is more like a 4 year old phone, so a refresh would be nice | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | r0kk3rz: msm8930aa was actually fairly new in november 2013 | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | and modem | 17:46 |
| Sidde | i use my jolla as my only phone and i can't say i'm in need of any faster device. But a better screen would be nice, especially a screen that would work better outside | 17:46 |
| pdanek | I bought some super-cheap (130 EUR) Android phone recently in Vietnam, some unknown brand. | 17:46 |
| pdanek | And it works much better than my Sailfish does. Octacore CPU, good camera, great screen, 2G ram | 17:46 |
| pdanek | Why would anyone still buy Jolla at this point? I mean general public who doesn't really care about OS. | 17:46 |
| pdanek | It's blazing fast comparing to my Jolla and that's a cheap Android phone. | 17:47 |
| Sidde | the normal person don't care about the specs on a computer anymore | 17:47 |
| Sidde | except maybe storage space | 17:47 |
| pdanek | They do, if the phone is slow as hell. :D | 17:47 |
| r0kk3rz | Stskeeps: still on the lower end of the spectrum though. Not a criticism, im sure you guys did the best you could at the time | 17:48 |
| Sidde | but many phones are slow because of shitty written software | 17:48 |
| Stskeeps | r0kk3rz: sure, not disagreeing | 17:48 |
| Stskeeps | r0kk3rz: considering we had 6 months between our chipset vendor going down and shipping a device, then yes, we did well | 17:48 |
| Sidde | can jolla write a better browser it might not feel slow | 17:48 |
| svuorela | ..talking about screens. my oneplus phone - I can't see the screen while wearing sunglasses. No problems on my jolla. | 17:49 |
| chem|st | Sidde: it already is a better browser... and it is FOSS too | 17:49 |
| chem|st | svuorela: oneplus you get electrecuted by swiping the back while standing unGNDed | 17:50 |
| Sidde | chem|st: sure, but i mean a browser that maybe can think a bit different when handling slower cpus and lesser ram. Better usage of cache, maybe prioritize javascript better. So it does not stall the entire browser | 17:51 |
| Sidde | if you really want to utilize older hardware i mean | 17:51 |
| chem|st | there is no point in supporting old hardware while new is coming at 80eur the piece | 17:52 |
| chem|st | *a piece | 17:52 |
| pdanek | chem|st: +++ | 17:52 |
| chem|st | and in terms of browser, it is always ram and how fast the device may swap | 17:52 |
| Sidde | i don't bother with replacing old stuff every other year | 17:53 |
| Sidde | my avarage phone last about 5-6 years for me | 17:53 |
| Sidde | My Ericsson T39 lasted 7 years i think | 17:53 |
| chem|st | as subsidized contracts are mostly gone in .de it can also be 3-4 years... about the time a battery lasts | 17:53 |
| Sidde | i replaced the battery 2 times on that one | 17:54 |
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| pdanek | When I travel Asia, I see dozens of various unknown brands of Android devices. Yes, the OS may be shitty on them, but HW is still powerful and it comes for supercheap price. So in comparison to that, Jolla still looks as really old HW with overpriced price. | 17:54 |
| chem|st | ? I did not replace any battery on any phone yet | 17:55 |
| chem|st | even my N900 is running on its first | 17:55 |
| chem|st | pdanek: margin makes the price | 17:55 |
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| pdanek | It was "OK" to buy 2 years ago, not an amazing deal, but OK to buy, but now it's overpriced like iPhone is. :D | 17:56 |
| Sidde | i miss those larger batteries. I had a vacation of 50 days in the US 2003. Did not charge the phone during the entire time | 17:56 |
| chem|st | sell 2M phones in asia and you can sell it for 80eur in EU | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | Sidde: http://www.dx.com/p/a7-led-white-flashlight-power-bank-gsm-phone-w-tf-dual-sim-2-0-screen-bluetooth-red-352821#.VWGCMFmeDGc | 17:56 |
| pdanek | Basically people who buy Jolla now can be blamed to buy overpriced phone same as iPhone guys are getting blamed. | 17:56 |
| pdanek | chem|st: right | 17:57 |
| Sidde | Stskeeps: nice one | 17:57 |
| chem|st | Sidde: that is not the battery's size... that is the low consumption... | 17:57 |
| Sidde | chem|st: that too | 17:57 |
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| Sidde | chem|st: but the normal battery with that one only lasted a few weeks | 17:57 |
| Sidde | ;) | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | Sidde: http://qz.com/411330/the-mystery-of-the-power-bank-phone-taking-over-ghana/ | 17:58 |
| Sidde | chem|st: ofcourse it's the power consumption. But i miss those days the phones did actually work as phones | 17:58 |
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| Sidde | good reception, good battery and good microphones | 17:58 |
| Sidde | reception with these smartphones sucks bigtime | 17:59 |
| Sidde | as a sailor i like having a good gsm phone | 17:59 |
| Yaniel | Stskeeps: about every paragraph makes me think "no shit Sherlock" | 18:02 |
| chem|st | Sidde: it is not the phones reception, it is the networks getting bad, we have now reduced gsm coverage, weak 3G and mindblowing 4g but no volte | 18:02 |
| chem|st | Sidde: as a sailor? I like to have a good satelite phone | 18:03 |
| Sidde | chem|st: maybe in general yes. But i can still use old nokia phones on gsm out on the water where it's maybe an hour or 2 away from reception on my smartphone | 18:03 |
| Sidde | chem|st: for coastal sailing having a satelite phone is a bit overkill | 18:04 |
| Yaniel | they are literally listing the tings people complain about | 18:04 |
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| Sidde | especially in sweden and finland where almost the entire baltic sea is covered with broadband thanks to net1 and 450mhz network | 18:04 |
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| chem|st | I never lost cell reception on coastal sailing apart of around islands, mainland reception was always good not to say great (as we had a mobile hotspot with us) | 18:05 |
| Sidde | chem|st: what is your definition of coastal sailint then? eventually you are to far away | 18:05 |
| Sidde | chem|st: so if you never lost it you've never sailed far out to the sea | 18:05 |
| chem|st | never lost it on coastal sailing, 15 miles out there is no cell reception... ever | 18:06 |
| chem|st | you are probably already out of src range | 18:07 |
| Sidde | ok, we can sail pretty far out with good reception | 18:07 |
| Yaniel | and the main point "wtf why does such a thing sell at all" well, it solves a problem people keep having, that's why | 18:08 |
| chem|st | in the baltic sea, yes there are stations specifically installed to support this | 18:08 |
| Sidde | yep | 18:08 |
| Yaniel | a problem you don't have to go to ghana to notice | 18:08 |
| Sidde | chem|st: very few people uses vhf radios, so having a good phone with good reception is very handy | 18:09 |
| chem|st | few? you mean on shore few | 18:09 |
| Sidde | sailors in the baltic | 18:10 |
| chem|st | bad sailors | 18:10 |
| Sidde | the ships uses satelite, AIS is the norm for smaller vessels too | 18:10 |
| chem|st | and how do you get the number of the other vessel? | 18:10 |
| Sidde | you don't | 18:10 |
| chem|st | I stick to my radio then! | 18:11 |
| Sidde | chem|st: very different types of sailors in scandinavia compared to the america | 18:11 |
| chem|st | never been to america sailing | 18:11 |
| Sidde | ok, where do you sail? | 18:11 |
| chem|st | europe | 18:12 |
| chem|st | currently | 18:12 |
| Sidde | 1/3 of the people in sweden had boats in the 70's. And with almost no rules and regulations it just became what it is | 18:12 |
| chem|st | well I live in germany, without LCC I do not even get a charter | 18:12 |
| Sidde | there is no boat register and such. But it's heavily restricted to use radios | 18:13 |
| Sidde | so people never bother buying radios | 18:13 |
| chem|st | I am saving to get all licenses done within the next couple of years | 18:13 |
| Sidde | LCC? | 18:14 |
| chem|st | some are pretty expensive, some are cheap | 18:14 |
| chem|st | boat license | 18:14 |
| r0kk3rz | there was a rather large number of swedes/norges around the adriatic when i was sailing a few weeks ago | 18:14 |
| falfa | oh dear | 18:14 |
| Sidde | chem|st: we don't have much formal stuff like that for boats less than 12meters long and 4 meters wide | 18:14 |
| r0kk3rz | our skipper almost never touched the radio, but was always on his mobile | 18:14 |
| Sidde | chem|st: i have no formal licences or anything like that and i own 2 boats, one motorboat and one sailboat | 18:15 |
| Helle | egh, for long range GSM, why not http://qz.com/411330/the-mystery-of-the-power-bank-phone-taking-over-ghana/ ;) | 18:16 |
| chem|st | for us it starts at >5HP motors, sea is then unlimited as long as it is private | 18:16 |
| chem|st | inland is limited to 15m | 18:16 |
| Sidde | chem|st: shit | 18:16 |
| Sidde | chem|st: that's rough... | 18:16 |
| chem|st | yeah you cannot even go fishing without a license | 18:16 |
| chem|st | at least not with a decent sized boat | 18:17 |
| Sidde | we don't even need insurance here | 18:17 |
| jfred | ooh, Jolla splitting in two... that actually sounds like a pretty good idea | 18:17 |
| Sidde | for damage to others it's covered by the housing insurance anyway. | 18:18 |
| chem|st | Sidde: most costal eu countries have very limited rules if rules at all | 18:18 |
| chem|st | in france you get a charter without any license | 18:18 |
| Sidde | chem|st: here too | 18:18 |
| Sidde | chem|st: i used to charter boats before i bought my own | 18:18 |
| chem|st | not quiet there yet, missing a couple of euros... | 18:19 |
| chem|st | and I live in the woods literaly | 18:19 |
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| Sidde | chem|st: :) | 18:20 |
| chem|st | want to move to hamburg in the next couple of years, just need to find a good job there | 18:20 |
| chem|st | so gtg | 18:20 |
| chem|st | bb | 18:20 |
| Sidde | chem|st: http://home.frontslash.org/gallery/index.php?dir=%2FSailing%2F2014_Sailing&page=&prev=20140710-012.jpg | 18:21 |
| Sidde | chem|st: my boat | 18:21 |
| Sidde | chem|st: ok, bye | 18:21 |
| kimmoli | harbour seems to be 502 | 18:25 |
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| r0kk3rz | onoz its dead | 18:30 |
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| kimmoli | paep | 18:52 |
| kimmoli | on oz... | 18:53 |
| kimmoli | zo uo | 18:53 |
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| r0kk3rz | oz no | 19:04 |
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| chem|st | Sidde: neat :) | 21:07 |
| the_mgt | are there any insights on future bluetooth->android developement? | 21:09 |
| the_mgt | things like Torque with OBD2 adapters, etc | 21:09 |
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| kimmoli | get a wifi obd2 adapter, works fine with torque | 21:24 |
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| the_mgt | it is not just about Torque, there is Parrot Zik, Livescribe 3 pen, etc etc | 21:28 |
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| chem|st | the_mgt: aren't those BTLE? | 22:08 |
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