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| SfietKontantinW | morning | 07:11 |
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| pp | my n900 is working fine, but it got the usb replaced once and I bought a n9 on day 1 and stopped using it :-) | 07:15 |
| Tofe | never had any issues with usb on mine. I must have missed some essential point :) | 07:17 |
| japa-fi_ | My N900 still has working USB. THough after reading on the USB issues, I thought about soldering it by myself to avoid it breaking up | 07:19 |
| Nicd- | I should probably reflash my N900 | 07:20 |
| Nicd- | it doesn't boot anymore since some CSSU | 07:21 |
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| pp | ooh, it's microsoft press event time! | 07:31 |
| SfietKontantinW | yaay, more lumias :) | 07:31 |
| SfietKontantinW | windows 10 for everybody et. | 07:32 |
| SfietKontantinW | etc. | 07:32 |
| Nicd- | windows 10 based on linux | 07:32 |
| Nicd- | ;) | 07:32 |
| SfietKontantinW | lol | 07:32 |
| pp | http://www.gsmarena.com/you_can_catch_the_microsoft_mwc_monday_event_online-news-11353.php | 07:32 |
| SfietKontantinW | The only piece of interesting information (atm) from MWC = http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=HTC-Valve-SteamVR | 07:32 |
| Yaniel | if you look closely you can see SystemD in the system services list | 07:32 |
| pp | warning: elop on stage, you may need a barfbag | 07:32 |
| Yaniel | *SystemD.exe | 07:32 |
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| SfietKontantinW | when is the Jolla press event ? | 07:35 |
| locusf | 90 mins | 07:36 |
| SfietKontantinW | so basically, press release in 90 min | 07:37 |
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| juiceme | SfietKontantinW, I thought MS dropped the "Lumia" brand name already? So the new devices should be "MicroSoft One" or something as silly :) | 07:45 |
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| SfietKontantinW | juiceme: nope, they dropped the Nokia brand | 07:49 |
| pp | for smartphones they pretty much have to and they pretty much defenestrated the dumbphone team | 07:50 |
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| juiceme | Too bad. I had hopes they would bury "Lumia" too, I think I read that somewhere... | 07:51 |
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| juiceme | since I do think that's the only reason the damned things are so popular still in finland... | 07:52 |
| juiceme | as they dumped "Nokia", the word Lumia is now the only thing connecting MS to the past... If that disappeared I hope we'd never see any MS mobiles on the streets in finland soon :) | 07:53 |
| merlin1991 | Nicd did you by any chance use cssu-thumb because i don't know of any nonbootable bugs | 07:54 |
| merlin1991 | In -testing and -stable that is | 07:55 |
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| Nicd- | merlin1991: I don't remember, it was too long ago | 07:57 |
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| Nicd- | I just dumped the phone and used something until I got my Jolla | 07:57 |
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| Acce | the way to build a brand: dump it every few years | 08:04 |
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| anYc | is there a stream of the jolla event? | 08:40 |
| Taaeem | anYc: unfortunaly no https://twitter.com/JollaHQ/status/572186445273808896 | 08:41 |
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| anYc | too bad, thanks! | 08:42 |
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| cvp_ | is there a live stream for jolla@mwc ? | 09:00 |
| ln- | cvp_: https://twitter.com/JollaHQ/status/572186445273808896 | 09:00 |
| Joonaa | is there a live irc feed for it | 09:01 |
| cvp_ | ok :( - thanks | 09:01 |
| anYc | the bad thing about early access is when you think you could check if there's already news about the next update and you quickly remember that your current version isn't officially released yet :) | 09:04 |
| Joonaa | the worst thing about early access is that people release unusable products and tell us "we'll fix it soon, we promise!" | 09:05 |
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| zed2k | hi | 09:11 |
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| jaacoppi | the "more worst" thing is when they promise to fix it but never do | 09:16 |
| Morpog_PC | hey, didn't I bet that next Jolla phone will have an x86 SoC and Stskeeps said he wouldn't bet? :D | 09:16 |
| Joonaa | jaacoppi that was what i meant ;) | 09:17 |
| Teemu | who has logs for for pre-slush? | 09:17 |
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| Acce | so what did they announce in the press conference? | 09:22 |
| tbr | Morpog_PC: they didn't announce a phone, so what are you talking about? getting all excited at hardware runs software? | 09:23 |
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| chem|st | seems to be still ongoing... | 09:23 |
| tbr | Acce: http://us7.campaign-archive1.com/?u=9fa131561747fd5ea8037f0c2&id=822cb0e1f7 | 09:23 |
| Morpog_PC | tbr, well, they announced future support for Atom x3 SoC | 09:23 |
| Acce | tbr: thanks | 09:23 |
| Morpog_PC | with 3G and 4G support | 09:23 |
| SfietKontantinW | sfos 2.0 and some intel chips | 09:23 |
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| SfietKontantinW | good that they got backed by a chip manufacturer | 09:24 |
| * SfietKontantinW remembers of STE | 09:24 | |
| flux | if Intel still pushes the mobile x86 as hard next year as hard as they did last year, then perhaps it's the choice that makes the best business sense. | 09:24 |
| tbr | Morpog_PC: I'm announcing future support for future-technology-5! it will be even better! soon™ in stores! | 09:24 |
| Morpog_PC | lol tbr :D | 09:24 |
| rigo | hi all, I tried to pass a file from my N9 to my jolla, but despite the fact that the other half talks to the jolla using NFC, I haven't been able to find where to hold my N9 so that it connnects. What did I do wrong? | 09:24 |
| flux | I suppose it'd be interesting to see Sailfish grow into a proper multi-platform distribution ;) | 09:24 |
| tbr | (let's see if anyone gets the CIV reference...) | 09:24 |
| SfietKontantinW | rigo: because the Jolla do not support NFC | 09:24 |
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| SfietKontantinW | it supports their own stuff based on NFC | 09:25 |
| rigo | SfietKontantinW: :(( | 09:25 |
| Morpog_PC | I really hoped for an announcement of a partner OEM/ODM at MWC | 09:25 |
| tbr | indeed | 09:25 |
| tbr | if it's just what is in this press release, then it's quite underwhelming | 09:26 |
| SfietKontantinW | they do already have an OEM | 09:26 |
| SfietKontantinW | but no "mainstream" oem though | 09:26 |
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| Morpog_PC | I don't get how FF OS and Ubuntu Phone gets HW partners, but SailfishOS not | 09:28 |
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| SfietKontantinW | Morpog_PC: FFOS: time, Ubuntu: money | 09:28 |
| SfietKontantinW | Jolla have neither time nor money though | 09:28 |
| Joonaa | Jolla is pretty unknown compared to Mozilla and Canonical | 09:30 |
| Nicd- | what was the announcement? | 09:30 |
| Morpog_PC | Nicd-, http://us7.campaign-archive1.com/?u=9fa131561747fd5ea8037f0c2&id=822cb0e1f7 | 09:30 |
| Nicd- | ah | 09:30 |
| SfietKontantinW | so, no Jolla 2 | 09:31 |
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| SfietKontantinW | more tablets, and maybe some intel Jolla 2 at some point | 09:31 |
| Acce | more tablets? | 09:31 |
| Taaeem | Mozilla and Ubuntu are both big and well-known open-source organisation, Jolla is a small European start-up :/ | 09:31 |
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| ikarus | so basically, yay, tablet support | 09:34 |
| SfietKontantinW | Acce: more = more on the Jolla tbalet :d | 09:34 |
| Morpog_PC | maybe that intel partnership gets us native wayland support on sfos | 09:35 |
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| gogeta | i don't think so | 09:35 |
| tbr | I doubt that. Intel seems to have standardized on Android BSP, just like everyone else | 09:35 |
| Acce | let us dream! | 09:36 |
| gogeta | hi tbr, +1 | 09:36 |
| ikarus | tbr: unless they get the Intel FOSS GFX people involved, those like Wayland and modern tech | 09:36 |
| Morpog_PC | let shuttleworth pay the bill :D | 09:36 |
| ikarus | been in touch with them for some other stuff | 09:36 |
| tbr | if they are lucky they will have native oFono drivers, as oFono is an intel baby | 09:36 |
| tbr | ikarus: there are many intels and I doubt the one selling mobile SoCs cares about that | 09:37 |
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| ikarus | tbr: quite true, but that Atom iirc moved away from the PowerVR GPU and to the Intel HD Graphics one a | 09:37 |
| ikarus | and that branch has actually nice FOSS people working for them | 09:38 |
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| ikarus | (the main issue is that the GPU core used in previous ultra mobile Atoms wasn't designed by Intel and PowerVR was being a bitch) | 09:39 |
| tbr | ikarus: sure, _you_ will be able to run whatever you want if you integrate the software stack. Regarding to what Intel+ODM will allow you, I'd refer to Stskeeps' previous statements and blog posts. | 09:39 |
| tbr | ikarus: case in point, the jolla tablet has a SoC that was explicitly chosen to avoid powerVR and has the intelHD GPU, still it will ship with android BSP, also for gpu | 09:40 |
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| tbr | business overrules engineering, film at 11 and during mwc 24/7 every 15min | 09:41 |
| ikarus | tbr: I guess :( | 09:41 |
| ikarus | meh, get me a job with either company stat and I'll fix the stack :P | 09:41 |
| tbr | ikarus: a management job? | 09:44 |
| ikarus | tbr: either will do | 09:44 |
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| ikarus | tbr: but to be fair, I tend to be one of those engineers, who stays a weekend on and fixes all those problems | 10:00 |
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| Morpog_PC | damn, the french bloggers are the fast ones, but I don't understand a word :D | 10:07 |
| Morpog_PC | http://jollafr.org/mwc15-jolla-annonce-sailfish-secure-en-partenariat-avec-ssh-communications-security-corp/ | 10:07 |
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| ln- | it's not that hard to understand | 10:08 |
| Morpog_PC | something about partnership with SSH company and encryption of communication | 10:08 |
| Morpog_PC | I had a few years french at school, still I suck on it :D | 10:09 |
| entil | "Actuellement, aucune solution d’origine Européenne existe face aux solutions Américaines." what does that mean? | 10:09 |
| ln- | learn spanish, it's easier and still helps a lot with understanding written french | 10:09 |
| flux | google translate \o/ | 10:10 |
| entil | I learned french as well, and I get the gist of that article, but not all of it | 10:10 |
| phdeswer | ender|: short: Atm there is no European solution vs US ones. | 10:10 |
| ln- | "currently no european solutions exist, only americans", or something like that. | 10:10 |
| phdeswer | sorry entil | 10:10 |
| flux | but even the translated version doesn't clearly open up -what- they are going to offer | 10:10 |
| entil | what does that mean in practice? :D | 10:10 |
| entil | sailfish secure for american markets only? | 10:11 |
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| Morpog_PC | that they create a european one I guess | 10:11 |
| flux | it doesn't sounds like cloud storage, but who knows. perhaps jolla is going to get a proper local encryption/message encryption/security model/etc | 10:11 |
| phdeswer | That if you take some secure OS atm you get default NSA inclusion? So sailfish is an option for everybody who does not want that. | 10:11 |
| ln- | the real problem with that article is that it just is quite abstract and doesn't contain very concrete information. | 10:11 |
| entil | plus it's in french, sacre bleu | 10:11 |
| CissWit | entil: it means that there are no european product, only US | 10:12 |
| CissWit | or at least no european product that competes with american's one | 10:13 |
| entil | so apparently there is an american version of the product and jolla will create sailfish secure as the european equivalent? | 10:14 |
| entil | maybe there'll be an official press release | 10:14 |
| Nicd- | yeah, let's just wait for an official statement | 10:15 |
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| flux | no, let's speculate! | 10:15 |
| rigo | make governmental crypt phones usable? | 10:15 |
| entil | accually is backdoor for gchq because nsa | 10:15 |
| Nicd- | ok, I'll start. Jolla is starting manufacturing their own electric car this summer | 10:15 |
| entil | translated into dolan | 10:16 |
| Nicd- | it will do 0-100 kph in 2 seconds and has 1000 km of range | 10:16 |
| flux | nicd-, amazing! gonna blog that right now -> | 10:16 |
| entil | it doesn't crash unless you install android support on it, which will also enable remote gps tracking by the five eyes | 10:16 |
| SfietKontantinW | Sailfish secure hum ... | 10:16 |
| Acce | will it be drivable by jolla phone from anywhere in the world via satellite connection? | 10:16 |
| Yaniel | Acce: of course. also in space | 10:17 |
| entil | this will be sold as a feature, ambulances can find you faster when all they need to do is access nsa records on the crash | 10:17 |
| Joonaa | how long will the range be on the moon? | 10:17 |
| Nicd- | 6 times as long due to lower gravity | 10:17 |
| Joonaa | sold | 10:17 |
| Acce | That's it, I'm moving to moon | 10:17 |
| entil | good thing #jollamobile understands the gravity of the situation | 10:18 |
| entil | going to the moon is serious business | 10:18 |
| Nicd- | sirius? who said anything about sirius? | 10:19 |
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| entil | the reptilians | 10:19 |
| Acce | yeah, it's serious.. like we could build that solar panel around the moon and transmit the energy to Earth with lasers | 10:19 |
| Acce | $$$ | 10:20 |
| Acce | then we just need to be careful that we don't point that laser anyplace wrong | 10:20 |
| Joonaa | like Google datacenters | 10:20 |
| Joonaa | we are going to need their coordinates... | 10:20 |
| entil | we can commandeer the jolla cars after the laser apocalypse | 10:21 |
| Acce | IRL Slick'n'Slide! | 10:21 |
| entil | evacuate the last freedom fighters to seek shelter in the caves | 10:21 |
| Nicd- | slicks* | 10:21 |
| Acce | oops | 10:21 |
| entil | lunch time before this escalates completely out of hand :D -> | 10:22 |
| Acce | :) | 10:22 |
| Acce | now: virtualbox in virtualbox | 10:22 |
| flux | you can in fact run xen under virtualbox. not sure about virtualbox. | 10:23 |
| Yaniel | you could always run virtualbox under xen under virtualbox | 10:24 |
| anYc | there's also an english article http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/02/jolla-partners-to-build-secure-version-of-its-sailfish-mobile-os/?ncid=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter | 10:24 |
| Mikaela | that looks like going to unneeded confusin | 10:24 |
| Joonaa | What! my teacher told me its not possible | 10:24 |
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| Acce | hmm doesn't look good.. I just wanted to copy the insides for chrooting | 10:26 |
| Yaniel | dunno if it'll really work but hey | 10:26 |
| Acce | can I mount a virtual disk somehow? | 10:27 |
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| Morpog_PC | now in english: http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/sailfish-secure-wants-to-be-an-android-alternative-safe-from-spies-prying-eyes/ | 10:35 |
| Morpog_PC | interesting | 10:36 |
| locusf | I wonder if community can do releases on Sailfish Secure | 10:36 |
| locusf | probably not | 10:36 |
| tbr | I wonder how sailfish can be secure. | 10:37 |
| tbr | I mean it's not built with security in mind, and most people know how well retrofitting security works. | 10:37 |
| Joonaa | by not being windows | 10:37 |
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| Morpog_PC | Joonaa, windows is nowadays the desktop OS with the less security holes | 10:38 |
| Joonaa | i know, i saw that post | 10:38 |
| * tbr goes to shut the f up and mind his own business, before he gets called out for 'unreasonable criticizm' _again_ by some sailor | 10:38 | |
| Joonaa | pretty interesting | 10:38 |
| tbr | that post is bullshit on so many levels | 10:38 |
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| Tofe | Morpog_PC: "Sailfish is running on IconiaTab W500"... well, I think the journalist didn't quite understand what he was writing on :) | 10:39 |
| Morpog_PC | Tofe, https://vimeo.com/62061963 | 10:40 |
| Morpog_PC | I guess, that counts :D | 10:40 |
| Tofe | oh, well, ok :) | 10:41 |
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| Morpog_PC | http://www.engadget.com/2015/03/02/jolla-wont-sell-data/ | 10:47 |
| Teemu | Morpog_PC that's because all the wannacool kids have flocked into linux distros making the bestest newest cloudest desktopest withest thest mostest windowest shadowest and it is really starting to show | 10:50 |
| Teemu | who cares about security I HAVE SHADOW MENUS | 10:51 |
| lainwir3d | i.e : NINJA MENUS | 10:51 |
| Teemu | :) | 10:51 |
| Tegu | and desktop cubes!and wobbly windows! | 10:51 |
| rigo | ROUNDED CORNERS | 10:51 |
| Nicd- | damn, looking at the tablet I feel like I wanna order one | 10:53 |
| Teemu | also people who are more interested in software policy intent than effect are yelling very loud in the linux-fronts and the bsd folks are more interested in making systems that just plain boring work | 10:53 |
| Nicd- | even though I'd have no use for it | 10:53 |
| Yaniel | Nicd-: it smells a bit like apple or blizzard | 10:54 |
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| Nicd- | Yaniel: in what way | 10:58 |
| Nicd- | ? | 10:58 |
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| Yaniel | it has this intriguing feeling to it | 11:00 |
| Lieke | how is it like apple then? | 11:00 |
| Teemu | "oooh shiny" -factor? | 11:00 |
| Yaniel | okay apple has pretty much lost that | 11:00 |
| Yaniel | yeah sort of | 11:00 |
| Teemu | apple puts that design effort into smaller than laptop devices | 11:01 |
| Teemu | have put for a long time | 11:01 |
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| cityoflights2 | http://www.engadget.com/2015/03/02/jolla-wont-sell-data/ | 11:01 |
| Teemu | i've not upgraded to the latest osx but post-steve it has progressed generally in directions i've liked | 11:02 |
| Teemu | the fullscreen is fuller etc | 11:02 |
| Teemu | when having a fullscreen terminal i'm not seeing anything else than just the gray on black text <3 | 11:03 |
| Teemu | pure vi bliss <3 | 11:03 |
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| Yaniel | and you can alt+tab out of fullscreen applications | 11:03 |
| Teemu | yes | 11:04 |
| Teemu | the virtual desktop thing also works pretty much how i like it | 11:04 |
| TemeV | in latest os x they changed behaviour of the "maximize" button and made it full screen | 11:05 |
| TemeV | which is not nice | 11:05 |
| TemeV | and also I hate that it doesn't remember the location of the full screen apps between virtual desktops | 11:05 |
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| TemeV | if I accidentally close browser window and open a new one it goes to the most right, not where it was before | 11:06 |
| TemeV | and esc exiting full screen is also annoying. Otherwise full screen and virtual desktops work nicely with os x | 11:07 |
| Nicd- | Yaniel: I just added more apple to my home as I made to raspberry pis act as airplay receivers | 11:07 |
| Nicd- | multi-room playback <3 | 11:07 |
| Nicd- | it's lovely | 11:07 |
| Yaniel | heh | 11:07 |
| Nicd- | two* | 11:07 |
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| Sail0r | I don't know if it's a good idea to have two different sailfishos versions while not even the first one gets fixes for important things like caldav and so on | 11:14 |
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| Acce | two different? | 11:18 |
| anYc | as far as I understood, it's not a new thing but a major upgrade | 11:18 |
| Yaniel | that's what I think as well | 11:18 |
| cityoflights2 | can someone please explain what is knox 2.0 and why are iphones secure? | 11:19 |
| cityoflights2 | aren't we all using the same selinux? | 11:19 |
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| anYc | I guess selinux is just one piece | 11:20 |
| Nicd- | what do iphones have to do with anything? | 11:20 |
| cityoflights2 | they are certified by the US gov for usage, as they are "safe" | 11:21 |
| Nicd- | well they're not linux so I don't see how they are relevant | 11:21 |
| Sail0r | according to this article http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/02/jolla-partners-to-build-secure-version-of-its-sailfish-mobile-os/?ncid=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter it sounds like a second branch | 11:22 |
| Jonni | you mean "safe" if NSA has backdoors to them? :) | 11:22 |
| Sail0r | so there will be SailfishOS 2.0 and Sailfish Secure | 11:23 |
| Tegu | ... | 11:23 |
| cityoflights2 | I would imagine it means that you can't install and run an app that can steal information from your phone | 11:23 |
| sakustar | is the jolla store the only place to find apps or are there more repos out there? | 11:23 |
| Tegu | sound blah if it's actually two different | 11:24 |
| Nicd- | openrepos | 11:24 |
| Nicd- | sakustar: https://openrepos.net/ | 11:24 |
| sakustar | cheers | 11:24 |
| Yaniel | use at your own risk | 11:24 |
| Sail0r | It sounds like different but I am not 100% sure | 11:24 |
| Sail0r | and that will make things worse i think | 11:24 |
| anYc | cityoflights2: ah I thought you mean sfos 2.0. didn't read much about the secure version yet | 11:24 |
| sakustar | Yaniel: jolla store verifies apps ? | 11:24 |
| Jonni | Sail0r: there is no second branch, all the development is currently done in one and same devel. | 11:25 |
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| Sail0r | but it will split sooner or later when there is a special hardend version ... otherwise how will you implement the special secure features | 11:25 |
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| Jonni | Sail0r: enable by seettings? :) | 11:26 |
| the_mgt | Sail0r: if it is selinux, you can have the same base and have different sets of restrictions | 11:26 |
| Sail0r | true if it is | 11:26 |
| Sail0r | I hope it is only selinux based | 11:26 |
| the_mgt | same goes for grsec and I assume for most of the other different things. tomoyo and app armor and whatnot | 11:26 |
| the_mgt | I just listened to vocerage of the MWC on deutschlandradio, what a fuck up. new htc phone 750€, new samsung phone 850€ (the edge version). or was it $? anyway, as exepensive as an iphone. also coverage about a spanish company using ubuntu on phones, some phones for old people and a statement of some telekom douchebag | 11:28 |
| the_mgt | /vocerage/coverage/ | 11:28 |
| the_mgt | while they mentioned data security, etc, not a single word about Jolla/Sailfish | 11:29 |
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| Nicd- | https://cdn.jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/49_PRESS_RELEASE_MWC_SAILFISHSECURE_FINAL.PDF | 11:43 |
| Nicd- | official press release | 11:43 |
| Nicd- | says they are presenting the project tomorrow and wednesday | 11:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | Interesting | 11:45 |
| sakustar | adblock = overwriting hosts like on android ? | 11:47 |
| sqozz | Nicd-: the fact, that this document is written in MS-Word and saying somewhat about "security" is a little bit strange :D | 11:51 |
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| flux | so it sounds like they are not going to use SELinux, aka NSALinux ;-) | 11:53 |
| flux | or maybe it's not "that" non-european to matter. | 11:53 |
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| Morpog_PC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paLKMgH94_M | 11:56 |
| Morpog_PC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYZ_4xTkLJs | 11:56 |
| Morpog_PC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QsDM5QiUHA | 11:56 |
| Morpog_PC | tablet hands on videos | 11:56 |
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| Morpog_PC | omg, it's like swipe ui :D | 11:57 |
| the_mgt | the sad thing with project announcements is, that we have no TOH that has any real function (besides from being fancy), no younited cloud and no SDHX support | 11:59 |
| Morpog_PC | the_mgt, well TOHKBD will be delivered soon | 12:00 |
| Nicd- | SDXC you mean? | 12:00 |
| sqozz | the_mgt: do you realy want that "younited cloud"? | 12:00 |
| the_mgt | tohkbd is 3rd party, yes i mean SDXC and I would have wanted younited cloud when it was still unsold | 12:00 |
| the_mgt | any cloud, I'd even roll my own if there was proper integretation with something like owncloud or seafile | 12:01 |
| politie | tablet looks really nice | 12:01 |
| the_mgt | not like "some third party hackish approach is avaiable. and it will work until the dev gets tired" | 12:01 |
| sqozz | the_mgt: i think, that Cargo Dock with webdav access to owncloud/seafile is pretty nice | 12:02 |
| politie | but will i be able to install sailfish on my android tablet | 12:02 |
| the_mgt | politie: depends on your tablet | 12:02 |
| Morpog_PC | I can already see the partner space being patched by community :D | 12:02 |
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| politie | the_mgt, i was afraid so, i got a chinese one so im not counting on it | 12:04 |
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| flux | the_mgt, well, at least calendar synch works with owncloud :) | 12:09 |
| flux | well, at least to 'downstream' direction, didn't get it working for adding events.. | 12:10 |
| the_mgt | politie: if it runs cynogenmod 10.x, you can use the hardware adaption kit | 12:15 |
| the_mgt | politie: http://www.thejollablog.com/jolla-releases-sailfish-os-hardware-adaptation-development-kit-android/ | 12:16 |
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| politie | oh thanks | 12:17 |
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| locusf | or cm 11 | 12:19 |
| locusf | thought there be dragons there | 12:20 |
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| entil | how does that adaptation work? run sailfish over android? | 12:24 |
| entil | as in on top | 12:24 |
| Jope | no | 12:25 |
| anYc | on top of android drivers/kernel afaik | 12:27 |
| locusf | on top with custom preinit and systemd later running android init, running on top of hybris bionic libc and EGL/GLES graphics drivers | 12:29 |
| phdeswer | anYc: not exactly the android kernel anymore either... Lots of fixes, clean-ups etc... In the Jolla case it is even synced up with linux-stable | 12:34 |
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| anYc | ah, interesting | 12:36 |
| entil | so it kind of hybridizes the android init structure and then executes a sailfish environment? | 12:37 |
| anYc | so I guess a kernel upgrade on the phone will only happen if there is no other way? :) | 12:37 |
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| the_mgt | I thought it leeches the hardware drivers out of the running CM and uses them to boot of a real sailfishos | 12:39 |
| the_mgt | only difference being the missing aliendalvik/android vm | 12:39 |
| phdeswer | the_mgt: for hadk yes | 12:41 |
| entil | executes sailfish environment ~= boot a real sailfish os ;) that's what I was going for | 12:42 |
| the_mgt | there is this other thing that only lets you try the ui/ux of sailfish, that "window manager" thing, whatever they call it on android | 12:43 |
| Yaniel | launcher | 12:43 |
| the_mgt | thanks! | 12:44 |
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| politie | yea the stella launcher | 12:44 |
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| the_mgt | did the Stella TOH include a modded angry birds game or was it only a stylish toh? | 12:45 |
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| HtheB | AmadeusXNet_: ping | 13:01 |
| coderus | the_mgt: it includes toons.tv partner application | 13:01 |
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| the_mgt | coderus: native? and what does it do? | 13:02 |
| coderus | the_mgt: google can help to know you what is toons.tv | 13:02 |
| the_mgt | ah, those bastards that leech my data plan when my son is using the tablet... | 13:03 |
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| SfietKontantinW | Morpog_PC: the partnerspace is already patched :) | 13:10 |
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| the_mgt | http://www.thejollablog.com/jolla-partners-rovio-provide-exclusive-angry-birds-user-experience/ 21. feb 2014 :( | 13:21 |
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| HtheB | the_mgt: ? | 13:24 |
| HtheB | they released "Stella" cover | 13:24 |
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| the_mgt | yes, and a younited app for android | 13:25 |
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| the_mgt | and you can put larger sdxc cards into the tablet, it will just not be certified | 13:26 |
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| Nicd- | so the community rejected SDXC support? | 13:26 |
| the_mgt | they tore it apart and burned the witch | 13:26 |
| Nicd- | but indiegogo still says MicroSD up to 128 GB | 13:27 |
| the_mgt | non of my precious money to evil standard-enforcing companies | 13:27 |
| Nicd- | that implies SDXC | 13:27 |
| the_mgt | yes, but it wont have a sticker on the package and it wont support exfat officially | 13:27 |
| Nicd- | guess they should change the indiegogo too | 13:27 |
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| the_mgt | Nicd-: We’ve decided to move forward with an open source memory card solution. This enables the use of memory cards up to 128GB on the Jolla Tablet for backups and additional storage, but due to Microsoft’s licensing limitation, cards over 32GB that are formatted in Jolla Tablet will not be readable with Windows computers or devices that advertise microSDXC support (cameras/phones/tablets). We apologise for the lack of full ... | 13:33 |
| the_mgt | ... Windows support here, but we feel that this suits best with our community's wishes and the Jolla values." | 13:33 |
| the_mgt | http://reviewjolla.blogspot.fi/2015/01/jolla-tablet-microsd-support-what.html | 13:33 |
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| Morpog_PC | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_GEaR6XIAASUnd.jpg:large | 13:34 |
| Nicd- | afaik they can't advertise as capable of >32 GB | 13:34 |
| Nicd- | if they don't support SDXC | 13:34 |
| Morpog_PC | sure they can, they just can't mention SDHC and SDXC :D | 13:35 |
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| HtheB | Morpog_PC: no SDHC!? | 13:36 |
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| HtheB | SDHC = up to 32GB | 13:36 |
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| Morpog_PC | sure, but not SDHC upto 128GB | 13:37 |
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| Nicd- | Morpog_PC: I understood they can't even say "SD >32 GB" | 13:38 |
| Nicd- | but maybe I'm wrong | 13:38 |
| the_mgt | what bothers me here is: jolla said "we do X if you give us Y $", they got the $ but then some people (who do not even have been in the same group of people who gave the $) began shouting and jolla says "ok, we got your $ but now we dont do X" | 13:38 |
| the_mgt | "need to have been" | 13:39 |
| Morpog_PC | well, that group was big (?) and loud unfortunately | 13:39 |
| chem|st | the_mgt: it was "supporting 128GB sdhc" not sdxc | 13:39 |
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| the_mgt | there is no such thing as 128gb sdhc | 13:39 |
| Nicd- | there is no such thing as 128 GB SDHC | 13:39 |
| the_mgt | there is no such thing as a "yellow blue", you can combine these words, but they have no meaning | 13:40 |
| chem|st | so they promissed something not existant | 13:40 |
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| ikarus | Morpog_PC: the issue was that they'd HAVE to license exFAT if they went larger and wanted to call it that | 13:40 |
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| chem|st | or even support sdcards >32gb does not mean to support exfat | 13:41 |
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| Morpog_PC | and? every modern device out there licensed it | 13:41 |
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| chem|st | and faik exfat drivers are already on their way by community so what is all the fuzz about? | 13:41 |
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| chem|st | Morpog_PC: I do not have a single SDXC device! | 13:41 |
| Morpog_PC | out of the box experience is ruined for mainstream users | 13:42 |
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| Morpog_PC | chem|st, well but you will in the future | 13:42 |
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| chem|st | probably and I don't care ever | 13:42 |
| ikarus | Morpog_PC: no, most devices just won't have SD cards anymore | 13:43 |
| the_mgt | chem|st: and it is a good thing that they promised something not existing? | 13:43 |
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| Morpog_PC | ikarus, which is even worse | 13:43 |
| ikarus | Morpog_PC: blame Microsoft and the SD association for that | 13:43 |
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| Morpog_PC | sure I do | 13:43 |
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| Joonaa | i cant wait for swappable ssds in phones... | 13:43 |
| Joonaa | ... hold on | 13:43 |
| sakustar | eh? windows phones dont support SD? | 13:43 |
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| ikarus | sakustar: Microsoft holds the retarded patent on exFAT | 13:44 |
| sakustar | ah | 13:44 |
| mjr | they at least used to do their very own formatting on their phone SDs, don't know what they do nowadays | 13:44 |
| ikarus | which almost everyone is refusing to license | 13:44 |
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| mjr | can't really see the point about complaining of 128 GB microSDHC promises, sure the wording was sloppy but it's rather clear that it's about 128 GB memory card support in particular, which is being realized, so, meh | 13:45 |
| the_mgt | well, almost every windows and mac user is able to use it. but who cares for thise idiots, lets focus on loud screaming license vegans | 13:45 |
| Nc_ | One of the comments on today's Engadget post about Jolla : http://fyre.it/nkym0F.4 | 13:46 |
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| ikarus | mjr: protocol and mechanical they can support up to 2TB SD cards, just not the filesystem hence they can't call it that | 13:46 |
| the_mgt | mjr: the reader hardware in the phone and the tablet were able to read up to 128gb already, the stretch goal was about raising money to advertise this | 13:46 |
| ikarus | the_mgt: no, it was to pay for the patent license | 13:46 |
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| the_mgt | in order to advertise it | 13:47 |
| ikarus | and I don't want my money pointlessly going to Microsoft for one | 13:47 |
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| the_mgt | paying for a license you dont advertise is stupid ;) | 13:47 |
| mjr | Oh. I see. | 13:47 |
| ikarus | because exFAT is the inferior filesystem | 13:47 |
| HtheB_ | seriously, how much does the licensing cost? | 13:47 |
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| ikarus | and you can access ext4/btrfs formatted cards via MTP just fine | 13:47 |
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| mjr | ikarus, yeah, I do recall the SDHC cap being artificial | 13:47 |
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| ikarus | HtheB_: I've heard numbers being thrown of 5-8 euro per device because Microsoft is being scummy | 13:48 |
| the_mgt | ikarus: and mtp is a protocol made by whom? ... microsoft? you sure you not already paying them for that? | 13:48 |
| HtheB_ | ikarus: so what, cant Jolla add something in their store? | 13:48 |
| HtheB_ | so we could just buy it | 13:48 |
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| ikarus | the_mgt: nope, it's unpatented | 13:48 |
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| the_mgt | and works flawless on mac and linux, if you read tjc | 13:48 |
| ikarus | HtheB_: no, the arrangement for those patents is usually far more nasty | 13:48 |
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| ikarus | HtheB: you can't selectively use the licenses and stuff like that | 13:49 |
| * mjr wonders idly what's the cross-os support situation of udf on block device media these days | 13:49 | |
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| HtheB | ikarus: I think they should have just highered the price just a bit more | 13:50 |
| the_mgt | any way, it was promised. promise was broken. that's sad. i'd like to trust their promises | 13:50 |
| HtheB | so that they COULD use that money for licensing stuff | 13:50 |
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| HtheB | true that | 13:50 |
| ikarus | HtheB: but the thing was that people didn't want them to license it because it meant throwing money at Microsoft for an in their opinion pointless license | 13:50 |
| Morpog_PC | ikarus, I wouldn't care | 13:51 |
| the_mgt | ikarus: people paid them money to buy the license. enough to reach the stretch goal | 13:51 |
| the_mgt | ikarus: people shouted "for free" and now the money is "wasted" | 13:51 |
| Morpog_PC | just the evangelists cryed | 13:51 |
| the_mgt | that is another sad piece of the puzzle | 13:51 |
| ikarus | then you should have countered that protest | 13:51 |
| Morpog_PC | and this small community is full of evangelists | 13:52 |
| ikarus | now they have that money to actually improve the OS instead of paying for scummy licenses | 13:52 |
| Joonaa | the license would have only been for new devices right? | 13:52 |
| Joonaa | so it wouldnt work on the phone | 13:52 |
| Morpog_PC | well, I don't care enough, I won't exchnage the SDCard ever | 13:52 |
| ikarus | Joonaa: correct | 13:52 |
| the_mgt | maybe it would have wit sos2.0 on the phone, too | 13:52 |
| Lieke | <the_mgt> ikarus: people paid them money to buy the license. enough to reach the stretch goal < no, i paid money to get a tablet | 13:52 |
| the_mgt | why make a difference for both, it is just harder to maintain | 13:52 |
| ikarus | Lieke: exactly the same for me and I immediately posted that I disagreed with that stretch goal | 13:53 |
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| Lieke | yeah | 13:53 |
| the_mgt | Lieke: we will never know the exact numbers of who did what and paid how much | 13:53 |
| Morpog_PC | see, there the evangelists come out of their holes :D | 13:53 |
| Lieke | hehe | 13:54 |
| ikarus | you can evangelize aswell if you want | 13:54 |
| ikarus | technically you can still use exFAT on the phone just fine | 13:54 |
| Morpog_PC | Nah, I don't care | 13:54 |
| ikarus | it's just violating the patent law in the USA and possibly some other countries | 13:54 |
| Morpog_PC | I just think it's funny that there was that big rant about exFAT, but nobody cares about the Exchange license fees | 13:54 |
| the_mgt | sorry for starting the "war" all over, gotta return to work now :( | 13:54 |
| the_mgt | Morpog_PC: full ack | 13:55 |
| the_mgt | Morpog_PC: and there is possibly a larger number of dumb license fees to stupid companies | 13:55 |
| Morpog_PC | yeah, like MPEG LA | 13:55 |
| mjr | arguably less avoidable | 13:56 |
| ikarus | yup, if I had the option of protesting that, I probably would aswell, why do I pay for a license on those product that I legally don't even need to have a license for in my own country ? | 13:56 |
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| uuhimhere | do games run well on the jolla | 15:09 |
| Teemu | the sailfishos native minesweeper implementation is very poor on usability but otherwise yes | 15:10 |
| uuhimhere | alot of people use their smartphones as gaming devices... | 15:11 |
| anYc | reversi works fine here | 15:11 |
| entil | I submitted a one-line patch to one of the 2048 implementations but don't know if that version actually hit the store | 15:11 |
| Teemu | the reversi is nearly decent as far as computer othellos are | 15:11 |
| Teemu | most of them are dead easy to beat all of the time but this is just easy to beat most of the time | 15:12 |
| uuhimhere | i read somewher4 that these days the no1 threat to nintendos dominance in th portable scene is andr9id gaming... | 15:12 |
| entil | <3 https://gitorious.org/sailfish-app/2048/merge_requests/2 | 15:13 |
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| anYc | uuhimhere: I haven't played android games myself but I saw tests that said they work good if you play games that match the hardware | 15:13 |
| entil | though the store offers only version 1.0 so he never released it, there's even a comment saying 4 is never spawned ":D" | 15:14 |
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| Teemu | i'll not touch the game any more | 15:15 |
| Teemu | spent two weeks on it | 15:15 |
| uuhimhere | anYc: yeah i was wondering since sOS is linux based if open pandoras library would be compatible with it | 15:17 |
| uuhimhere | i starcraft native + tohkbd= total pwnage | 15:18 |
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| anYc | uuhimhere: afaik, one problem with other games is that the phone uses wayland instead of X | 15:18 |
| anYc | but I don't know if libraries like SDL abstract this completely | 15:19 |
| uuhimhere | so transitiom to wayland isnt backwards compat | 15:19 |
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| anYc | afaik there are also wrappers but I don't know if they work here | 15:20 |
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| anYc | I'm just repeating what I remember from reading blogs and IRC :) | 15:21 |
| uuhimhere | oh ok... so are all the major distros (-buntu) going w/ wayland | 15:21 |
| anYc | but there are people who know such stuff in this channel, we just have to wait | 15:22 |
| anYc | yeah, but X will still be around for a long while ;) | 15:22 |
| uuhimhere | Stskeeps: care to weigh in on this? | 15:22 |
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| chem|st | I run xwayland on my desktop though | 15:25 |
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| chem|st | not that stable but usable, so far all gtk stuff works | 15:26 |
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| anYc | I guess if the game uses only SDL2 it should work but if it somehow bypasses SDL or uses SDL1 it won't | 15:26 |
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| anYc | uuhimhere: you would play starcraft without a mouse? :) | 15:28 |
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| chem|st | does anyone know where to get an x-folding triple pro in europe? | 15:29 |
| uuhimhere | yeah i suppose the op does have analogs so it jas an advantage.... | 15:30 |
| uuhimhere | well alot of people play fps and rpgs w/o a mouse | 15:31 |
| uuhimhere | theyre called console gamers :p | 15:31 |
| uuhimhere | though yeah not as good as a mouse | 15:31 |
| anYc | ^^ I'm not patient enough to play something like this without a mouse | 15:31 |
| Teemu | for rpgs you need a game master | 15:32 |
| Teemu | dice are common but not really necessary | 15:32 |
| uuhimhere | yeah maybe there can be a toh-fuzzy dice :p | 15:33 |
| Teemu | mud gaming is mostly just about grinding to achieve the epicest epics and then complaining that there is nothing more to grind at | 15:33 |
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| Teemu | i don't consider wow an rpg | 15:34 |
| uuhimhere | teemu if that were true wow woildnt still b3 going strong 10+ years on | 15:34 |
| Teemu | blizzard has updated the bestest epicest many times | 15:35 |
| Teemu | so the grinders have had more to grind at | 15:35 |
| uuhimhere | it is the only diff is the dungeon master charges you a monthly subscriptiom rate :p | 15:35 |
| Teemu | the game is run algorithmically instead of with a real game master :) | 15:37 |
| Teemu | that's the biggest difference | 15:37 |
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| ikarus | muds are best with community roleplay | 15:40 |
| uuhimhere | im glad people stopped refrring to zelda ad an rpg | 15:43 |
| HtheB | Zelda 2 is RPG | 15:43 |
| HtheB | sort of | 15:43 |
| HtheB | You can level up :p | 15:43 |
| SfietKontantinW | Zelda 2 would be called "action RPG" or "hack and slash" these days :P | 15:44 |
| HtheB | Streets of Rage <3 | 15:44 |
| uuhimhere | i consider zelda as much an rpg as i woild tom raifer | 15:45 |
| uuhimhere | buddha i miss real keyboards | 15:45 |
| uuhimhere | tomb raider | 15:46 |
| uuhimhere | its epic action adventure puzzle solving | 15:47 |
| uuhimhere | id buy a sega smartpjone | 15:48 |
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| politie | rather see some good emulators | 15:49 |
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| Nicd- | I wouldn't complain if everything went wayland/Qt... :) | 15:51 |
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| anYc | well, I think if the window managers like kwin will support wayland the number of users will grow rapidly | 15:54 |
| anYc | (they're working on but still takes time) | 15:54 |
| pp | wayland in fedora (gnome3 et al.) is looking pretty good | 15:55 |
| uuhimhere | whos signed up as of now? is it actually oug or still beta | 15:55 |
| pp | btw., "broken glass" == "get a new one", right? (apparently 210e quote for a replacement from optima :( ) | 15:56 |
| pp | fortunately mine is still usable, but... | 15:56 |
| ggabriel | pp: that appears to be the case - i broke mine too but it's usable so won't change it | 15:57 |
| ggabriel | or wait until you get a hefty discount and get a second phone :D | 15:57 |
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| pp | yea, I think we have a spare one at the office I can just swap with ;) | 15:57 |
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| sakustar | wtf is up with screen protectors. difficulty level 4/5 | 15:58 |
| sakustar | first one i did get on succesfully but it peeled off with the covering plastic :D | 15:58 |
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| pp | of course, quote from optima service, money from insurance company and then getting a 199e deal would be ok :P | 16:01 |
| pp | 199-(210-150e) but meh :-) | 16:01 |
| pp | or they might even do 249-150e, but that would be unethical to do with the 199e deal :P | 16:03 |
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| ggabriel | i'd love to get my screen back to a better state | 16:12 |
| ggabriel | but sadly this is the kind of stuff that you get when you have niche products such as the jolla | 16:12 |
| ggabriel | the glass alone cannot be worth half the [original] price of the phone | 16:13 |
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| ShawnMcCool | you're suggesting that they break easily? | 16:14 |
| ggabriel | no | 16:14 |
| ShawnMcCool | i have a broken as hell nexus 4, it's like zombie broken | 16:14 |
| ggabriel | i'm suggesting that it should be as cheap as you fix any other popular phone | 16:14 |
| ShawnMcCool | like, you can see it's skull through the flesh that's falling off of it | 16:14 |
| ggabriel | but sadly that's not the case for obvious reasons | 16:14 |
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| Morpog_PC | Jolla phone with SailfishOS 2.0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-xqlXTuLN4&feature=youtu.be&t=3m9s&hd=1 | 16:19 |
| tiwake | tom from jolla | 16:21 |
| tiwake | thats about all I understood from that youtube video | 16:22 |
| trt` | :) | 16:22 |
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| HtheB | guys | 16:23 |
| Taaeem | MorpogPC: sad it's only a few seconds at the end :-/ | 16:23 |
| HtheB | can someone test a stream for me? | 16:23 |
| HtheB | (with VLC) to see if its working? | 16:23 |
| Morpog_PC | permanent status area on homescreen | 16:23 |
| tiwake | I need to leave soon | 16:23 |
| zed2k | how can I remove all entries from the Calendar app without removing the calendars per se? | 16:24 |
| zed2k | I screwed up my syncevolution settings and need to resync from the server | 16:24 |
| gogeta | sqlite is your friend | 16:24 |
| trt` | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paLKMgH94_M | 16:24 |
| trt` | English :) | 16:24 |
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| zed2k | is it safe to simply remove all rows from the table? or should I scan for cross-references? | 16:25 |
| tiwake | trt`: he was talking a lot faster with the other language | 16:25 |
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| trt` | tiwake, maybe if the first guy spoke slower you'd understand it all ;) | 16:26 |
| Morpog_PC | trt`, I posted that video because of the SFOS 2.0 on the phone | 16:26 |
| tiwake | heh | 16:27 |
| Morpog_PC | that was never seen before | 16:27 |
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| trt` | Did they show Sailfish 2.0 for the first time at MWC? | 16:28 |
| Morpog_PC | yes | 16:29 |
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| pdanek | :O | 16:29 |
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| pdanek | Hopefully Sailfish 2.0 will improve Android compatibility. | 16:35 |
| pdanek | It's behind comparing to BlackBerry one's | 16:35 |
| Taaeem | Does anyone know something about OEM Partners? I mean concrete information | 16:35 |
| Morpog_PC | sure, just let me search the leaked NDA documents | 16:36 |
| Taaeem | pdanek: on the hands on videos the android support looks very smooth | 16:36 |
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| Morpog_PC | the tablet looks so ultra smooth | 16:42 |
| Morpog_PC | there you can see the phone too with SFOS 2.0 and it's in english :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2bUlhfU708&feature=youtu.be&t=hd=1 | 16:43 |
| HtheB | thanks Morpog_PC | 16:45 |
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| locusf | 0 android in the box :D | 16:46 |
| uuhimhere | so no ones don3 anynreal game testing? | 16:46 |
| HtheB | game testing as in? | 16:46 |
| SpeedEvil | http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/15/03/02/155219/jolla-partners-with-ssh-to-create-sailfish-secure for those with mod points | 16:47 |
| Morpog_PC | locusf, no, it still uses libhybris unfortunately | 16:47 |
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| locusf | Morpog_PC: yeah these videos are hilariously techically inaccurate since they don't know the details :) | 16:47 |
| Morpog_PC | :D | 16:47 |
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| TMavica | the statusbar look nice | 16:48 |
| SfietKontantinW | status bar ? | 16:48 |
| SfietKontantinW | is there one ? | 16:48 |
| SfietKontantinW | if so, huge step backward :( | 16:48 |
| Taaeem | On homescreen a small one for time and connection state | 16:49 |
| Morpog_PC | yes permanent status bar on homescreen | 16:49 |
| Morpog_PC | not in apps thouugh | 16:49 |
| Nicd- | ha, so they backed down on tha | 16:49 |
| Nicd- | that* | 16:49 |
| uuhimhere | why is thaht step backwards | 16:49 |
| SfietKontantinW | ha, not in apps ! | 16:49 |
| Morpog_PC | just look at the videos I posted :D | 16:49 |
| Morpog_PC | there you can see the phone with SFOS2.0 | 16:49 |
| SfietKontantinW | thanks not in apps ! | 16:49 |
| SfietKontantinW | yeah, have seen the phone with 2.0 | 16:49 |
| SfietKontantinW | looks nice and rather smooth | 16:49 |
| Morpog_PC | even engadget seems to like it this time http://www.engadget.com/2015/03/02/jolla-tablet-hands-on/ | 16:50 |
| SfietKontantinW | the best thing I liked today about MWC + Jolla is that Intel has announced partnership with Jolla | 16:50 |
| SfietKontantinW | or reverse | 16:50 |
| SfietKontantinW | meaning that a phone might be on the corner | 16:50 |
| Morpog_PC | but that atom x3 is manufactured in a pretty oitdated process by TSMC :( | 16:51 |
| Morpog_PC | outdated | 16:51 |
| Morpog_PC | 28nm | 16:51 |
| Taaeem | I'm hoping for a new phone with sailfish so badly | 16:51 |
| tbr | more surprising: it comes with ARM MALI GPUs | 16:51 |
| Morpog_PC | well, anything seems to be better than powervr | 16:51 |
| SfietKontantinW | tbr: :( | 16:51 |
| tbr | https://plus.google.com/u/0/111101795166699165422/posts/PoMDKhALxVu | 16:51 |
| Taaeem | What new SoCs are produced in 14 nm | 16:52 |
| mjr | tbr, huh, atom x3 does? | 16:52 |
| Morpog_PC | atom x5 and x7 | 16:52 |
| SfietKontantinW | worring stuff: the screen don't seems to be great | 16:52 |
| uuhimhere | most important question bout intel soc: intel gfx or PVR? | 16:52 |
| Morpog_PC | the new samsung exynos is also produced in 14nm | 16:52 |
| Morpog_PC | uuhimhere, atom x3 is mali | 16:52 |
| uuhimhere | intel = no blob user/kernel driver... | 16:53 |
| tbr | that's not entirely correct | 16:53 |
| Taaeem | So is sailfish only compatible with x3 or also with x5/x7? | 16:54 |
| SfietKontantinW | intel = binary blobs just like android :/ | 16:54 |
| uuhimhere | + really | 16:54 |
| tbr | Taaeem: hardware runs software | 16:54 |
| uuhimhere | i thouth intel's blobs were on the rtos side | 16:54 |
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| uuhimhere | like vc4 | 16:55 |
| Morpog_PC | SfietKontantinW, where did you read about the display being bad? | 16:55 |
| mjr | intel graphics linux-side drivers are indeed free | 16:55 |
| Taaeem | tbr: sorry does that mean yes or no | 16:55 |
| Taaeem | For some reason I don't get it :D | 16:55 |
| Morpog_PC | which aren't used in jolla tablet | 16:55 |
| SfietKontantinW | Morpog_PC: engadget | 16:56 |
| SfietKontantinW | and photos | 16:56 |
| tbr | Taaeem: it means "yes, of course, duuuuh" ;-) | 16:56 |
| Morpog_PC | engadget wrote fairly bright and sharp, doesn't sound bad for me | 16:56 |
| locusf | has the gpu been announced? | 16:56 |
| locusf | for the Jolla tablet | 16:56 |
| Morpog_PC | ages ago locusf | 16:56 |
| locusf | I don't remember anyone asking about it in FOSDEM | 16:56 |
| SfietKontantinW | locusf: yep | 16:56 |
| tbr | locusf: intelhd | 16:56 |
| locusf | okay | 16:56 |
| tbr | locusf: then it was already old news | 16:56 |
| SfietKontantinW | with ... intel android drivers | 16:56 |
| tbr | yes, lovely, isn't it... | 16:57 |
| Morpog_PC | at least Stskeeps said it should be possible to replace them :D | 16:57 |
| mjr | :P | 16:57 |
| locusf | mesa? | 16:57 |
| uuhimhere | i thought ihd had linux side drivrrs | 16:57 |
| Morpog_PC | they have, but they don't get support from ODM for it | 16:57 |
| mjr | probably faster to get it to market, already having had it running on android drivers... | 16:57 |
| mjr | ah | 16:58 |
| tbr | mjr: it's an ODM thing. Either you take the whole android BSP or you don't get support. Same everywhere, regardless of architecture and device colour and shape. | 16:59 |
| uuhimhere | i thought intel gave good si[port for their ihd stuff...i know thatsbthe case on PC... ignoring the OEM | 17:00 |
| mjr | righto | 17:00 |
| locusf | PC + minnowboard at least | 17:00 |
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| Stskeeps | moo | 17:02 |
| Stskeeps | hello from hell! | 17:02 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:02 |
| Morpog_PC | ello Stskeeps :D | 17:02 |
| Yaniel | is MWC really that bad | 17:02 |
| locusf | ehlo | 17:02 |
| Morpog_PC | fairs are always stressful | 17:03 |
| uuhimhere | Stskeeps: hey there buddy | 17:03 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: network coverage at MWC? unpossible | 17:03 |
| TMavica | hi buddy | 17:03 |
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| Stskeeps | tbr: mosh | 17:05 |
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| tbr | Stskeeps: heh, yeah, would have been impossible before that. | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | Yaniel: booth duty always is | 17:07 |
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| Stskeeps | good feedback so far | 17:08 |
| uuhimhere | Stskeeps: are there booth babes or is that only at game and car shows | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | it depends | 17:09 |
| uuhimhere | does jolla sell in japan? | 17:09 |
| Morpog_PC | I don't think so | 17:09 |
| Stskeeps | not atm | 17:09 |
| Yaniel | if they were looking for business partners there I have some hope for that though | 17:10 |
| uuhimhere | gonna need booth babes for that market... | 17:10 |
| Yaniel | haha | 17:10 |
| Yaniel | with cat ears | 17:10 |
| SfietKontantinW | Stskeeps: good luck | 17:10 |
| Stskeeps | meh. marc dillon with cat ears will do the trick | 17:10 |
| SfietKontantinW | how many demos atm ? | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | you guys liked the videos coming out? | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | SfietKontantinW: hm? | 17:11 |
| Morpog_PC | they got cybette for that I thought :D | 17:11 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: riding a unicorn that's puking rainbows, then yes | 17:11 |
| TMavica | i want see video demo with sailfish 2.0 in jolla phone | 17:11 |
| SfietKontantinW | Stskeeps: how many journalists asked you to demo the device ? | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | SfietKontantinW: oh god, so many.. | 17:11 |
| Morpog_PC | Stskeeps, yeah, cool to see vodeos from phone with 2.0 too | 17:11 |
| SfietKontantinW | Stskeeps: I like the vids, me want it naow | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | Morpog_PC: well they exist | 17:12 |
| Stskeeps | they look very similar to tablet | 17:12 |
| Morpog_PC | indeed | 17:12 |
| uuhimhere | will thebtablet have a toh | 17:12 |
| Morpog_PC | no | 17:12 |
| uuhimhere | so no slide out kbd... | 17:15 |
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| pdanek | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KMv0FpWU8 | 17:19 |
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| Morpog_PC | Meizu Mx4 SailfishOS Edition would be better :D | 17:19 |
| SfietKontantinW | let's look at this | 17:20 |
| SfietKontantinW | ubuntu's ui looks quite messy but it might have improved | 17:20 |
| Morpog_PC | everything is so big there | 17:20 |
| Morpog_PC | wasting space | 17:20 |
| Morpog_PC | i like the settings and status bar integration | 17:21 |
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| Taaeem | Morpog_PC: ask the guys at #sailfihsos-porters both are using libhybris for adaption so it should not be soo hard to make a port of sailfish | 17:21 |
| Morpog_PC | Taaeem, pretty useless without alien-dalvik support for me | 17:22 |
| SfietKontantinW | Morpog_PC: I hate the settings & status bar | 17:22 |
| locusf | well we almost have apkenv | 17:22 |
| SfietKontantinW | the gesture is bad | 17:22 |
| Morpog_PC | SfietKontantinW, I never tried it by myself :D | 17:22 |
| Morpog_PC | it looks good | 17:22 |
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| Taaeem | locusf: so you guys have almost a open source android support? | 17:23 |
| Morpog_PC | locusf, apkenv was only good for NDK stuff, wasn't it? | 17:23 |
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| locusf | Taaeem: still wip but runs fruit ninja! | 17:23 |
| locusf | on n9 | 17:23 |
| locusf | Morpog_PC: not sure about the current state | 17:23 |
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| mariod | hello everyone :) | 17:23 |
| Morpog_PC | ello | 17:24 |
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| Taaeem | locusf: thats quite good news even if it's currently only N9 | 17:24 |
| mariod | How is everyone doing? :) ... nice to see there's a Jolla IRC channel around | 17:24 |
| Morpog_PC | well, that worked like 1 year ago already | 17:24 |
| Morpog_PC | we're fine, there is also a #nemomobile, #mer, #sailfishos and #sailfishos-porters channel mariod | 17:25 |
| trt` | yayy mariod! I also found it out like a week ago :) | 17:25 |
| mariod | thank you for that info Morpog_PC :) | 17:25 |
| trt` | but I had a break from IRC for couple of years, or something | 17:26 |
| Morpog_PC | #jollamobile is more or less just for chatting | 17:26 |
| mariod | i got my phone a bit more than a month ago ... have installed an update today ... | 17:26 |
| Morpog_PC | ah yeah, that update is good | 17:26 |
| Morpog_PC | got it as early acess 2 weeks ago already | 17:26 |
| mariod | and so far i've installed two apps ... the file browser and the map :) | 17:26 |
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| Morpog_PC | oh, so much stuff to explore still :D | 17:27 |
| Morpog_PC | be sure to visit talk.maemo.org too | 17:27 |
| mariod | well ... i'd love to ... but i don't know yet what and how :) | 17:27 |
| mariod | i'm not a developer yet, i'm afraid but i'd like to learn stuff :) | 17:27 |
| Morpog_PC | and jollausers.com | 17:27 |
| mariod | also ... it may sound silly or something but i don't really know yet what i should do ... or install ... | 17:28 |
| mariod | i've never had a mobile phone like this one ... | 17:28 |
| Morpog_PC | no smartphone ever? | 17:28 |
| mariod | the ones i had before were very simple ... | 17:29 |
| mariod | i think calender and mp3 were the best features :) | 17:29 |
| mariod | sooo ... you see i come from the past in a way :D | 17:30 |
| Morpog_PC | just look around in jolla store, it's easy to uninstall again | 17:30 |
| Morpog_PC | same goes for android applications | 17:30 |
| trt` | how many apps total does the jolla store have? | 17:30 |
| Morpog_PC | dunno | 17:30 |
| Morpog_PC | maybe like 1000? | 17:30 |
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| mariod | THAT's something i haven't messed with yet, Morpog_PC ... android and android apps ... | 17:30 |
| mariod | also ... i remember that i read somewhere (not long ago) ... | 17:31 |
| Morpog_PC | mariod, well, there you can explore unlimted stuff :D | 17:31 |
| mariod | that uninstalling apps doesn't work properly ... i guess they are wrong? | 17:31 |
| Morpog_PC | it works properly | 17:31 |
| mariod | ok :) ... why am i not shown though what kind of things an app wants to know? | 17:31 |
| Morpog_PC | which doesn't mean it would be a good idea to install all apps from jolla store and then uninstall them again :D | 17:32 |
| mariod | i remember i was told that apps show you that kind of information before you hit install | 17:32 |
| mariod | *chuckle* | 17:32 |
| Morpog_PC | mariod, such functionality isn't implemented yet for sailfishos apps | 17:32 |
| mariod | oh ... ok ... i see | 17:32 |
| mariod | but android apps will tell me ? | 17:33 |
| Morpog_PC | yes | 17:33 |
| mariod | ok ... at least that's working :) | 17:33 |
| Morpog_PC | Given the small userbase sailfishos got, it's a less interesting target for malware writers yet | 17:34 |
| mariod | since you've been so helpful so far (thank you very much by the way) ... is there anything (else) i should bear in mind? ... any apps you or settings you can recommend? ... and what about additional app stores? [like one where i can free software] ... | 17:34 |
| trt` | well, you don't need to worry about it, since unlike google play, sailfish apps don't serve the vicious purposes of NSA, FBI etc. ;) | 17:34 |
| mariod | : ) | 17:34 |
| SfietKontantinW | Morpog_PC: and we need some security stuff before getting those malawares | 17:35 |
| Morpog_PC | SfietKontantinW, yes | 17:35 |
| mariod | Kasperksy offers a nice solution for PCs and Android i read | 17:35 |
| mariod | typo-correction: Kaspersky | 17:35 |
| Morpog_PC | mariod, well, there is some interesting software in openrepos, an additional sailfish "store" which can be accessed via cli or by the app called warehouse | 17:36 |
| SfietKontantinW | mariod: I do run Linux & SailfishOS, so no need ATM | 17:36 |
| SfietKontantinW | :) | 17:36 |
| Morpog_PC | but keep in mind apps in there aren't tested by Jolla and can use stuff that Jolla doesn't allow (yet) for their own store | 17:36 |
| mariod | :) lucky you ... i need an external hard disk first before i install some Linux on my computer | 17:36 |
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| mariod | i see ... sooo ... to be safe you'd say i should stay away from it ... | 17:37 |
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| mariod | but if i want to be bold i should go for it? :D | 17:38 |
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| mariod | also ... does anyone of you have any idea if you will be able to read ebooks on the tablet? | 17:38 |
| Morpog_PC | well it depends | 17:39 |
| Morpog_PC | :D | 17:39 |
| mariod | what do you mean? | 17:39 |
| Morpog_PC | just don't install everything you find in there | 17:39 |
| Morpog_PC | especially from the libs stuff | 17:39 |
| Morpog_PC | or stuff that sounds like system apps | 17:39 |
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| mariod | i am careful :) ... like i said ... so far i've only installed this file browser ... i think it said it is by a person called "Kari" ... | 17:40 |
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| mariod | and the map app ... | 17:40 |
| Morpog_PC | from Jolla store you can install everything | 17:40 |
| mariod | the file browser finally gave me the opportunity to access my memory card :) | 17:40 |
| mariod | the map thing i think will come in handy in case i'm outside and need to find some place ... | 17:41 |
| Morpog_PC | sure, but for navigation I prefer here maps | 17:41 |
| mariod | err ... Morpog_PC ... didn't you say before that i shouldn't install everything i find in the Jolla store? | 17:41 |
| Morpog_PC | I was talking about the warehouse store (it acceses openrepos) | 17:42 |
| mariod | isn't the map thing i've installed the same as "here maps" ? | 17:42 |
| mariod | okaaay :) | 17:42 |
| trt` | doesn't Jolla come with Yandex app store preloaded? | 17:42 |
| Morpog_PC | mariod, it uses the same map sources, but it's totally different apps | 17:42 |
| mariod | no Yandex here trt` | 17:42 |
| Morpog_PC | here maps is an android app | 17:42 |
| mariod | oh i see ... what's the difference then? | 17:43 |
| Morpog_PC | I wouldn't know where to begin :D | 17:43 |
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| mariod | *laughing* well let's keep it simple for now ... you see i'm a little confused ... | 17:43 |
| mariod | how can the map-thing be different when it accesses the same map-data? | 17:43 |
| Morpog_PC | bacause map data is just the the raw material | 17:44 |
| Morpog_PC | you got to do something with it | 17:44 |
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| mariod | ok ... what do you do with a map? ... you look some stuff up ... like ... i dunno ... Speaker's Corner in London, UK ... | 17:45 |
| mariod | then you maybe want to find out how to get there ... | 17:45 |
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| Morpog_PC | Sorry, I cannot explain that for you in english :D | 17:45 |
| mariod | what's your first language? :) | 17:45 |
| Morpog_PC | german | 17:45 |
| mariod | ok ... then tell me in German :) | 17:45 |
| mariod | and if you can't do it on here ... | 17:46 |
| mariod | do it in a query :) | 17:46 |
| mariod | i can speak German as well :) | 17:46 |
| trt` | where are you from mariod | 17:46 |
| Morpog_PC | hehe, I could but sorry my time is also limited :D | 17:46 |
| mariod | *laughing* i see Morpog_PC | 17:46 |
| Morpog_PC | I'm sure someone else can | 17:46 |
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| mariod | trt` ... i live in Austria | 17:47 |
| Morpog_PC | I'm also only a very very novice programmer | 17:47 |
| mariod | that's one reason why i learnt and know German :) | 17:47 |
| mariod | well ... at least you're a novice ... | 17:47 |
| mariod | i wouldn't know yet how to juggle 0s and 1s :) | 17:48 |
| Morpog_PC | long story short = jolla maps, few developers less money, restricted access to map data | 17:48 |
| mariod | but i'd love to learn :) | 17:48 |
| urs | Anybody know if it is possible to change the wlan0 mac address on a jolla phone? | 17:48 |
| Morpog_PC | here maps = hundreds of developers, alot longer developed unlimited access to map data | 17:48 |
| urs | (I'm at Johannesburg Airport right now, and they only have 30 minutes of free wifi... per Mac) | 17:48 |
| mariod | wow urs | 17:48 |
| urs | I tried simply changing it via "ifconfig wlan0 hw ether aa:bb:cc:00:11:22" but that didn't seem to work | 17:49 |
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| urs | afterwards, I got no connection with the connection dialogue anymore | 17:49 |
| mariod | did you do a reboot? | 17:49 |
| urs | No. That would reset the mac, wouldn't itU? | 17:49 |
| urs | -U | 17:49 |
| mariod | Morpog_PC, and you say "here maps" is safe too? | 17:49 |
| Morpog_PC | well, I kinda trust nokia | 17:49 |
| mariod | brb ... the kitchen called | 17:50 |
| trt` | thumbs up to that Morpog_PC | 17:50 |
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| zutto | urs: wlan0 down, ether <mac>, wlan0 up | 17:51 |
| zutto | works on generic linux box, should work on jolla(?) | 17:52 |
| Tuju | what's the difference between aptitude and aptitude appstore? both seem to open some sort of appstore. | 17:52 |
| urs | zutto: nope, doesn't seem to work. It does change the mac as visible in ifconfig, but the GUI doesn't manage to connect to any network anymore after that | 17:53 |
| urs | Is there a way to tell the GUI/connectionmanager about the new mac address? | 17:53 |
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| tbr | urs: look into connman | 17:54 |
| Tuju | mmm Aptoide is the name, not aptitude. | 17:54 |
| tbr | though I wouldn't be sure if the QC wifi driver even supports changing the mac | 17:54 |
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| zutto | it should give out error if it doesnt with that hw ether command | 17:55 |
| zutto | key word being: should | 17:55 |
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| urs | tbr: how do I restart / nudge that one? Simply SIGHUP it? Or kill and restart/ | 17:57 |
| tbr | urs: it's systemd, but I'm not sure if the other parts of the OS will take kindly to a connman restart | 17:58 |
| tbr | especially telephony | 17:58 |
| zutto | conmanctl --help | 17:58 |
| zutto | :P | 17:58 |
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| urs | I don't care about telephony that much anyway, I'm about to board a 10 hour flight. :) | 17:58 |
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| tigeli | zutto: you need to restart connman if you change the mac address | 18:01 |
| zutto | do you? | 18:01 |
| tigeli | yes | 18:01 |
| zutto | i see | 18:01 |
| urs | ok, that seems to have worked somewhat. | 18:01 |
| zutto | great | 18:02 |
| zutto | someone should probably document that somewhere for future use :P | 18:02 |
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| urs | but not 100%... I'm able to connect to networks now, but don't get an IP address. | 18:03 |
| urs | (That might be the fault of African infrastructure tho) | 18:03 |
| Jope | I heard it began over there. | 18:06 |
| Jope | you got the ip for your first 30 mins of leech access? | 18:06 |
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| tigeli | urs: be aware that connman configuration files are based on mac & ssid | 18:09 |
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| urs | Jope: before changing the mac, yes | 18:10 |
| tigeli | though you should be able to connect through ui | 18:10 |
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| mornfall | hm, is the 'lock' screen going away in sfos 2.0? | 18:14 |
| r0kk3rz | mornfall: looks that way | 18:14 |
| mornfall | ok, that might explain why the crappy transition from home to lock was never fixed | 18:14 |
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| r0kk3rz | seems to be a little less radical, more like ubuntu touch | 18:16 |
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| mariod | and back | 18:21 |
| mariod | trt`, and Morpog_PC ... you two still here? | 18:21 |
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| mariod | hmmm ... looks like you're no longer here ... a pity | 18:22 |
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| mariod | question for the others then who are here ... | 18:25 |
| mariod | Morpog_PC told me that the map app i've found is not the one as "here map" ... | 18:26 |
| mariod | now i'm trying to remove the old one and replace it with the new one | 18:26 |
| mariod | i can't seem to remove the old one though | 18:27 |
| SfietKontantinW | mariod: you can keep both | 18:27 |
| trt` | that's what I would say :) | 18:27 |
| SfietKontantinW | mariod: or, long press, and you will see the "remove app" icon | 18:27 |
| SfietKontantinW | under each app | 18:27 |
| mariod | yes ... i can see this little X ... | 18:28 |
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| mariod | but i can't seem to properly press it :D | 18:28 |
| mariod | i found another way to remove it though ... inside the jolla store :) | 18:28 |
| mariod | buuut why do you two say i should keep the other one too? | 18:28 |
| SfietKontantinW | mariod: because you can keep it ... | 18:29 |
| SfietKontantinW | if you like it | 18:29 |
| SfietKontantinW | etc. | 18:29 |
| mariod | aaand one more question ... if i activate developer-mode ... or install any android stuff ... won't this cancle the warranty? | 18:29 |
| trt` | Well, I never used a Jolla phone, but my point is you don't need to create a problem if you don't have one | 18:29 |
| trt` | You have HERE maps.. that's important :) | 18:30 |
| Morpog_PC | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy4QkGnmER4&hd=1 | 18:30 |
| mariod | but i thought Morpog_PC said i don't have it | 18:30 |
| trt` | at the same time I know I will be annoyed if I can't uninstall an app | 18:30 |
| Morpog_PC | trt`, he is using jolla maps which is using here framework | 18:30 |
| SfietKontantinW | mariod: you void the warantee if you have issues, like: if you break your phone and it cannot boot | 18:30 |
| SfietKontantinW | if you know how to restore the phone, it's not a problem | 18:30 |
| SfietKontantinW | from now, prefer not enable dev mode, except if you have some experience with linux | 18:31 |
| Morpog_PC | mariod, here maps can be installed from 1mobile app store, from amazon app store and from google play store | 18:31 |
| Morpog_PC | but you would need to install one of those first | 18:31 |
| Morpog_PC | or you can sideload the here maps apk | 18:31 |
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| Morpog_PC | google is your friend :D | 18:32 |
| mariod | i see ... and does this affect my warranty? ... what does sideload mean? ... | 18:32 |
| mariod | and SfietKontantinW ... i have a little experience with linux ... | 18:32 |
| trt` | Morpog_PC, hold.. I thought mariod did actually install HERE (android app) | 18:32 |
| mariod | and would like to know more :) | 18:32 |
| Morpog_PC | sideload means to install an app without accessing it over an app store | 18:32 |
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| Morpog_PC | like on your windows PC | 18:32 |
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| Morpog_PC | if you got one :D | 18:33 |
| mariod | i see ... or like i saw on Linux ... on ubuntu for instance you could sometimes download a deb-file on a few websites ... | 18:33 |
| loic_m_ | is the Jolla phone able to install apps from Google Play? Or only apps on yandex? (not sure exactly how theses things work) | 18:33 |
| mariod | loic_m_, stay a little and find out ... looks like we will find out here ;) ... | 18:34 |
| SfietKontantinW | loic_m_ you can install the google play services, and then, get the google play | 18:34 |
| SfietKontantinW | you can use yandex and amazon store instead too | 18:34 |
| loic_m_ | SfietKontantinW> ok, great! | 18:34 |
| loic_m_ | mariod> ;) | 18:34 |
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| Nicd- | but it involves the command line | 18:34 |
| Nicd- | namely copying a few files ove | 18:35 |
| Nicd- | over* | 18:35 |
| loic_m_ | not a problem | 18:35 |
| trt` | Nokia used to have the apk on their HERE website when it was still in beta | 18:35 |
| trt` | not anymore tho | 18:35 |
| loic_m_ | I ssh all day long;) | 18:35 |
| mariod | a/the terminal is not your enemy :D | 18:35 |
| trt` | I can't find it now | 18:35 |
| Nicd- | hmm, many new users here | 18:35 |
| loic_m_ | so I just have to check if there will be a coupon this week to buy the Jolla Phone :) | 18:35 |
| trt` | http://www.devfiles.co/download/5MFba4xA/com.here.app.maps-232.apk | 18:35 |
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| Morpog_PC | loic_m_, it's possible to install oogle play store and google play services, but it's not supported by either jolla nor google | 18:36 |
| trt` | http://www.apkreleases.com/2014/12/10/here-maps-10-apk-android-download/# | 18:36 |
| trt` | here you go | 18:36 |
| mariod | okaaay ... is there any way i can check first what the app wants to know before i download / install it? | 18:37 |
| Morpog_PC | it will ask you on install | 18:37 |
| Morpog_PC | like on any android device | 18:37 |
| mariod | hmmm ... i see ... i'd prefer it if asked me before :) | 18:37 |
| Morpog_PC | still it could be anything you install | 18:37 |
| trt` | do you have a toggle to turn on/off 3rd party apps on Jolla, Morpog_PC ? | 18:38 |
| Morpog_PC | this a so called trust problem :D | 18:38 |
| loic_m_ | Morpog_PC> ok, thanks for the explanation | 18:38 |
| Morpog_PC | install of 3rd party apps? | 18:38 |
| Morpog_PC | trt`, yes you need to enable it | 18:38 |
| trt` | aha | 18:38 |
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| mariod | so okaaay ... i've removed the sailfish-map-thing ... | 18:41 |
| trt` | So, mariod you download http://www.devfiles.co/download/5MFba4xA/com.here.app.maps-232.apk on your phone. Enable 3rd party apps/allow untrusted software, click on the apk file and follow instructions | 18:41 |
| mariod | the un-installation process was quite fast ... faster than expected | 18:42 |
| mariod | would that cancle out my warranty? | 18:42 |
| mariod | and why is that software not trusted? *trying to understand* | 18:42 |
| trt` | I wouldn;t think so | 18:42 |
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| Morpog_PC | Well, if it'S malware that overclocks your cpu and kills it, then I guess yes | 18:43 |
| trt` | It is untrusted, since it wasn't checked by Jolla people | 18:43 |
| mariod | Morpog_PC, but you said yourself it is a map-thing ... not some malware | 18:44 |
| Morpog_PC | well, if it IS the real APK, then yes | 18:44 |
| trt` | Just like any Android app that is not on Google Play store is untrusted by google | 18:44 |
| mariod | i see trt` ... makes sense | 18:44 |
| trt` | true Morpog_PC | 18:44 |
| trt` | don't take my words for granted... I googled and found that link. It is not from Nokia's official website | 18:45 |
| trt` | words = link | 18:45 |
| mariod | :) | 18:45 |
| mariod | and where did you get yours? | 18:46 |
| Taem | mariod: some time ago I saw a Google play downloader for apps | 18:47 |
| mariod | Taem, ... i think i found some apk-downloader :) | 18:48 |
| mariod | the google playstore should be trusted, shouldn't it? | 18:49 |
| trt` | I don't have a Jolla phone, mariod (I have a Samsung) . I downloaded mine from the Play store... Anyway, before it was even on the Play store, at HERE.com they had an apk and I downloaded that one | 18:49 |
| ahjolinna | here is app to download APKs from the Google Play store. https://codingteam.net/project/googleplaydownloader | 18:49 |
| mariod | interesting ahjolinna :) | 18:49 |
| mariod | and thanks for the info trt` ... | 18:50 |
| trt` | hehe :) yw | 18:50 |
| mariod | i had a Samsung too ... it lasted four years :) | 18:50 |
| mariod | but as i said of course it was a simple phone ... | 18:50 |
| mariod | and the best features were a calender and mp3 :D | 18:50 |
| trt` | Play store, yandex store, mi market, amazon app store.. better be safe! ;) | 18:50 |
| mariod | even though i've hardly used the mp3-thing :) | 18:50 |
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| mariod | aaand ahjolinna ... unfortunately this would require a debian-based system :) | 18:51 |
| mariod | i just read that they're only offering a deb-file | 18:51 |
| mariod | and i currently don't have a linux computer ... i hopefully will soon have one again | 18:52 |
| ahjolinna | mariod: i used it on arch | 18:52 |
| mariod | has anyone of you ever seen this here? -> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/apk-downloader/ | 18:52 |
| mariod | ahjolinna, nice! ... | 18:52 |
| mariod | that's the distro i'd like to try too :) | 18:52 |
| ahjolinna | https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/googleplaydownloader | 18:52 |
| mariod | well ... as soon as i will have it i'll try that one ... thank you :) | 18:53 |
| trt` | ahjolinna, do you use that downloader? | 18:53 |
| trt` | or do you have the actual Play store? | 18:53 |
| ahjolinna | I use that downloader | 18:54 |
| trt` | good | 18:54 |
| trt` | I don't know about the Play store, but it seems pretty easy to install Amazon app store on Jolla | 18:55 |
| trt` | https://thejollablog.wordpress.com/2013/11/29/tips-and-tricks-2-installing-amazon-app-store-on-your-jolla/ | 18:55 |
| mariod | oh this is mean :D ... | 18:55 |
| mariod | the addon i just showed you | 18:55 |
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| mariod | it requires a gmail-account :) | 18:55 |
| ahjolinna | amazon app store works without problems...no need for tweaks | 18:55 |
| mariod | and a device id | 18:55 |
| pdanek | Jolla 2, the hype! | 18:55 |
| mariod | come on ... please ... i just got the original Jolla ... | 18:56 |
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| mariod | :D | 18:56 |
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| mariod | ahjolinna, ? | 18:57 |
| mariod | this program you use there ... | 18:57 |
| mariod | does it require a gmail-acc and android id as well? | 18:57 |
| trt` | mariod, you use Mozilla? | 18:57 |
| trt` | you don't have a Gmail account? | 18:57 |
| mariod | i use Mozilla Firefox as a web browser - yes | 18:57 |
| trt` | ok | 18:57 |
| mariod | i know it eats a lot of RAM buuut ... it's open source ... and so far it has been more reliable than some other web browsers | 18:58 |
| ahjolinna | mariod: yes and no...there is already a default account and id | 18:58 |
| Taem | chromium is also quite nice and the open source part of Google chrome | 18:58 |
| trt` | I use Chrome | 18:59 |
| ahjolinna | chrome/chromium has become way too bloated | 18:59 |
| mariod | yes Taem buuut ... i read that Chromium always was just a snapshot ... never a stable build | 18:59 |
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| trt` | I also have chromium but .. nah | 18:59 |
| mariod | what web browser do you use, ahjolinna ? | 18:59 |
| ahjolinna | firefox | 18:59 |
| mariod | yay! :D | 18:59 |
| mariod | *laughing* | 18:59 |
| ahjolinna | firefox with kde patches | 19:00 |
| Taem | On Linux chromium is quite stable and it works faster than Firefox on elementaryOS | 19:00 |
| trt` | ahjolinna, , I know, but it's bloated with my stuff... They got me hooked | 19:00 |
| mariod | that sounds wild ahjolinna ... i'd have to try and see that :) | 19:00 |
| trt` | I also have a Chromecast and I cast stuff from my computer | 19:00 |
| mariod | you're quite the mage, eh trt` ? ;) | 19:01 |
| mariod | sorry ... silly stuff i picked up from somewhere else :) | 19:01 |
| mariod | mage ... spellcaster ... stuff-caster ;) | 19:01 |
| mariod | it certainly wasn't meant rude trt` | 19:01 |
| trt` | nah | 19:02 |
| ahjolinna | mariod: its the opensuse KDE patches for firefox, maintained by bluesystems | 19:02 |
| trt` | i hope you were not sarcastic either | 19:02 |
| ahjolinna | https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/firefox-kde-opensuse/ | 19:02 |
| mariod | i was just joking around ... didn't mean anything in a bad way | 19:02 |
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| mariod | i'd have to read a bit more about that ... ahjolinna | 19:03 |
| mariod | to know how different it is from regular mozilla firefox for instance :) | 19:03 |
| mornfall | I wish firefox would finally go multiprocess... | 19:03 |
| mornfall | other than that, I like it a lot more than chromium, lately | 19:03 |
| mariod | for each tab a process? | 19:03 |
| ahjolinna | mariod: it only brings better kde integration | 19:04 |
| mornfall | something like that (more complicated in practice) | 19:04 |
| Nicd- | multiprocess would be nice | 19:04 |
| Nicd- | wouldn't have to crash the whole browser every time something goes wrong | 19:04 |
| mornfall | Nicd-: it's been in the codebase for about 5 years now, but can't enable in release builds (nightlies have an about:config switch) | 19:04 |
| mornfall | Nicd-: IUIC the biggest problem is addons | 19:05 |
| mariod | interesting | 19:05 |
| Teemu | safari has an interesting multiprocess model | 19:05 |
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| Teemu | a process for several tabs | 19:05 |
| mornfall | Teemu: chromium has the same | 19:05 |
| pdanek | Have anyone considered putting Sailfish OS on distrowatch.com? | 19:05 |
| pdanek | Is it even possible? | 19:05 |
| mariod | oi ahjolinna , trt` and Morpog_PC ... | 19:06 |
| mornfall | which you notice when a process spins out of control and you kill it a bunch of chromium tabs go sadface | 19:06 |
| mariod | http://apps.evozi.com/apk-downloader/?id=com.here.app.maps ... check this out :) | 19:06 |
| Teemu | this results every now and then the browser asking me something along the lines of "in order to load the page you just requested in a new tab, some other completely nonrelated page in some other window's unrelated tab needs to be reloaded" | 19:06 |
| Teemu | i'm baffled about this | 19:06 |
| mornfall | mariod: that's hazardous | 19:06 |
| mariod | mornfall, what do you mean? | 19:06 |
| mariod | why? | 19:06 |
| mornfall | mariod: because you are downloading from a 3rd party, so even though play security is flimsy, it's still better than nothing | 19:07 |
| ahjolinna | Nokia HERE android app can be found at amazon | 19:07 |
| ahjolinna | http://www.amazon.com/HERE-Offline-navigation-traffic-transit/dp/B00TR5XM2M/ref=sr_1_1?s=mobile-apps&ie=UTF8&qid=1425323225&sr=1-1 | 19:07 |
| mornfall | mariod: whatever evozi.com is, how do you know they don't put in backdoors in a few chosen apps? :) | 19:08 |
| mariod | thanks for the info mornfall :) | 19:08 |
| mornfall | mariod: with the browser addons you can at least check that the URL you are downloading is indeed the play store one | 19:09 |
| mariod | well ... the browser add on won't work for me ... the one i found requires a gmail account and an android id | 19:09 |
| mornfall | yes, that's how play store works | 19:09 |
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| mornfall | you need a google account do download things from there | 19:10 |
| mariod | sooo ... i guess this means now ... that i should just download the map-thing from the playstore or something like that | 19:10 |
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| mariod | to summarize ... | 19:11 |
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| Taem | You could also ask a friend with an android phone and root access to download the app and then copy/send you | 19:11 |
| mariod | 1) you said i should activate "developer mode" | 19:11 |
| trt` | go with ahjolinna mariod | 19:11 |
| trt` | Amazon is safe | 19:11 |
| zutto | mornfall: i was wondering the same | 19:11 |
| zutto | its not very difficult task to add your own library to every application that is packed | 19:12 |
| mariod | amazon? trt` ... | 19:12 |
| trt` | Amazon app store | 19:12 |
| mariod | but when i go to that website ... | 19:12 |
| trt` | https://thejollablog.wordpress.com/2013/11/29/tips-and-tricks-2-installing-amazon-app-store-on-your-jolla/ | 19:12 |
| mariod | there's no download link | 19:12 |
| mariod | ok ... back to the start trt` , ahjolinna ... | 19:13 |
| mariod | to get the better map-app ... | 19:13 |
| mariod | i need to go to amazon first ... | 19:13 |
| trt` | ok - http://www.amazon.com/gp/mas/get/android?tag=androidcentralb-20&m1k=d_ac there it is | 19:13 |
| mariod | and follow the instructions you just sent me trt` ? | 19:13 |
| trt` | you download it, install it... | 19:13 |
| trt` | enter it and look up HERE maps | 19:14 |
| mornfall | zutto: well, if they want to keep low profile, the shasums for *most* apps should match out :P | 19:14 |
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| zutto | true | 19:14 |
| zutto | but still seems quite dangerous | 19:14 |
| mornfall | well, most downloads of most apps anyway | 19:14 |
| mariod | and what about developer-mode trt` / ahjolinna ? | 19:14 |
| ahjolinna | mariod: what about it? | 19:14 |
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| mariod | do i need that now can i just go about installing this amazon_apk thing and then here maps? | 19:15 |
| mariod | sorry ... "or" missing | 19:15 |
| trt` | you wouldn't need any developer mode | 19:16 |
| ahjolinna | u only need to install "android support" from the jolla store | 19:16 |
| trt` | of course I don't speak from experience, since I don't have a Jolla phone | 19:16 |
| mariod | oh right ... you've got your Samsung :) ... | 19:16 |
| mariod | sorry :) | 19:16 |
| trt` | :) | 19:17 |
| mariod | ahjolinna, that won't give me access to this amazon-thing | 19:17 |
| mariod | will it? | 19:17 |
| mornfall | it will | 19:17 |
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| mornfall | amazon is an app store (besides other things) | 19:18 |
| mariod | ok ... sorry for still being a little confused ... why was there some talk about the developer mode then before? | 19:18 |
| ahjolinna | mariod: I notice that amazon app store says that Jolla phone is not compatible with this app so u can download/install HERE | 19:18 |
| ahjolinna | mariod: u need do alot of dev. mode for google's play store | 19:19 |
| ahjolinna | damn typos | 19:19 |
| ahjolinna | there is alot of crap u have to do before u can get play store working on Sailfish | 19:20 |
| mariod | i see ... but what should i really do now to still be on the safe side? | 19:21 |
| mariod | i can't use this app-downloader yet you showed me ... | 19:21 |
| mariod | you told me the amazon-thing won't work ... | 19:21 |
| ahjolinna | amazon and other app stores dont have this problem | 19:21 |
| mariod | and i can't download the here-map because i can't access the amazon-store | 19:22 |
| ahjolinna | mariod: what OS (desktop) do use? | 19:22 |
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| mariod | currently ... windows 7 | 19:23 |
| pdanek | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/02/jolla_launches_sailfish_2_security/ - There will be a “security-hardened” version of the OS for governments, businesses and privacy-conscious consumers. Jolla is its first foray into mobile. | 19:23 |
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| trt` | you can go back to the very first link I sent you and just go for it... http://www.apkreleases.com/2014/12/10/here-maps-10-apk-android-download/ | 19:23 |
| pdanek | is it media glitch, or really special Sailfish version which will have added security tools? | 19:23 |
| ahjolinna | Sailfish Secure will arrive next year | 19:24 |
| ahjolinna | https://cdn.jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/49_PRESS_RELEASE_MWC_SAILFISHSECURE_FINAL.PDF | 19:24 |
| mariod | but trt` ... sorry for being confused ... how do we know this place got the safe and right app? ... when this evozi-thing i showed earlier we were not ? | 19:24 |
| mornfall | I wouldn't hold my breath, ahjolinna ... | 19:24 |
| trt` | I mean how scary could it be.. I've installed some weird apks like the kiackass torrent | 19:24 |
| ahjolinna | well thats the their plan | 19:24 |
| trt` | we won't know | 19:25 |
| mornfall | there's a lot more to security than a plan :) | 19:25 |
| ahjolinna | I'm just saying what they said | 19:25 |
| mornfall | also, sailfish is about as insecure as it gets right now | 19:25 |
| mariod | why is that? | 19:26 |
| ahjolinna | that's why Sailfish Secure thing happened | 19:27 |
| mornfall | ahjolinna: like younited? :P or 'optimal map experience blahblah'? :P | 19:28 |
| mariod | will this "sailfish secure" then be available for us too? | 19:28 |
| ahjolinna | yes it will | 19:29 |
| mornfall | so far I regard it as a marketing gimmick | 19:29 |
| M4rtinK | I have no idea how that "secure" thing should work | 19:29 |
| mornfall | we'll see in another year or so | 19:29 |
| M4rtinK | you generally want your normal OS to be secure | 19:29 |
| ahjolinna | SSH Communications Security will do the security thing for Jolla | 19:30 |
| M4rtinK | hey, maybe it it will be something alike a "fips mode" | 19:30 |
| mornfall | M4rtinK: up to a point | 19:30 |
| mariod | but why is it not secure right now? | 19:30 |
| mariod | or safe or whatever | 19:30 |
| M4rtinK | eq. nothing really works but it is really secure :) | 19:30 |
| Tegu | so maybe rename "Sailfish Secure" to "Sailfish" and normal "Sailfish" to "Sailfish Unsecure"? :P | 19:30 |
| mariod | : ) | 19:30 |
| ahjolinna | I think its just a project name | 19:30 |
| mornfall | M4rtinK: right, security goes out of the window the moment facebook stops working | 19:30 |
| mariod | i'll be right back | 19:31 |
| mornfall | ahjolinna: do you have some inside info or is all this just idle speculation? | 19:31 |
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| pdanek | mornfall: lol | 19:31 |
| ahjolinna | mornfall : finnish media has a lot written about this already | 19:31 |
| mornfall | ahjolinna: but nothing from jolla directly? just he said she said? | 19:32 |
| M4rtinK | well, for one I more or less equal secure == open source | 19:32 |
| M4rtinK | I see it as the most basic precondition | 19:32 |
| ahjolinna | its what jolla has said to them | 19:32 |
| mornfall | M4rtinK: well, good thing you don't use web then :-) | 19:33 |
| M4rtinK | mornfall: ? | 19:33 |
| mornfall | and don't run those megabytes of obfuscated proprietary javascript | 19:33 |
| ahjolinna | I think we have to wait and see for more info, this was just an announcement | 19:33 |
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| M4rtinK | what I want to say is that if the security improvements are not open source | 19:34 |
| mornfall | also the backends are usually closed source, so if you store data in an online service, well... | 19:34 |
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| M4rtinK | then they are IMHO worthless | 19:34 |
| ahjolinna | there is never enough info for us in these announcements | 19:34 |
| Taem | Say said tomorrow and Wednesday they will give more info about sailfish secure | 19:34 |
| Taem | They* | 19:34 |
| mornfall | M4rtinK: well, depends... certification could be satisfying substitute for many | 19:35 |
| mornfall | common criteria or something | 19:35 |
| M4rtinK | mornfall: well, that's basically CYA :) | 19:35 |
| M4rtinK | mornfall: that could work :) | 19:35 |
| M4rtinK | the "secure" might mean a security audit/certification | 19:35 |
| ahjolinna | what I understand it will be somewhat open source (again) only some of the SSH company's parts will closed | 19:36 |
| M4rtinK | eq stable configuration confirming to a given security guidelines | 19:36 |
| M4rtinK | well there might not be any "source" | 19:36 |
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| M4rtinK | just basically a build that is certified as secure | 19:37 |
| ahjolinna | well that's what I have read | 19:37 |
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| mornfall | the problem with closed-source solution is that it's fairly easy to subvert security *very* subtly | 19:38 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, this is the fips mode I've mentioned above: https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html/Security_Guide/sect-Security_Guide-Federal_Standards_And_Regulations-Federal_Information_Processing_Standard.html | 19:38 |
| M4rtinK | you turn it on and your system is "fips" complient | 19:38 |
| mornfall | yes, and you can no longer get any work done | 19:39 |
| mornfall | which is good if you are a government I guess | 19:39 |
| M4rtinK | well... :) | 19:39 |
| mornfall | not so much for mortals | 19:39 |
| M4rtinK | but you can tick the checkbox that you are fips compliant :) | 19:39 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, OpenSCAP is nicer for hardening IMHO: https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Network_Satellite/5.5/html/User_Guide/chap-Red_Hat_Network_Satellite-User_Guide-OpenSCAP.html | 19:41 |
| M4rtinK | you can make custom policies (content) so it is not all or nothing & you can use the scanner to verify if your system is compliant :) | 19:42 |
| mornfall | something like openscap assumes all your vendors are acting in good faith | 19:42 |
| M4rtinK | ok, getting kinda offtopic :) | 19:42 |
| mornfall | which is kinda hard to swallow these days | 19:43 |
| M4rtinK | well, it is all open - openscap, the content, the scanner | 19:44 |
| M4rtinK | you can verify it is doing what it should - if you have enough resources for that :) | 19:45 |
| mornfall | yes, but that's not applicable to a (generally closed-source) appstore like harbour | 19:45 |
| mornfall | where you are really looking at locking down apps | 19:46 |
| mornfall | selinux/apparmor/jals/whatever | 19:46 |
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| M4rtinK | mornfall: oh that, right | 19:50 |
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| M4rtinK | well I would gladly submit them a source tarball :) | 19:50 |
| M4rtinK | if they let me | 19:50 |
| mornfall | well, yes | 19:50 |
| M4rtinK | ...and if the supported GPS :P | 19:50 |
| mornfall | but if this thing ever takes off, that'd be an exception not the rule | 19:51 |
| M4rtinK | that's also how most distros handle it | 19:51 |
| M4rtinK | pushing application blobs to distro repositories in unthinkable | 19:51 |
| mornfall | we could however demand that jolla store shows a badge for sourceful uploads | 19:51 |
| M4rtinK | *is | 19:51 |
| M4rtinK | that would be nice | 19:51 |
| mornfall | (after they implement sourceful uploads that is) | 19:52 |
| M4rtinK | #unlike | 19:52 |
| mariod | ahjolinna, ? | 19:52 |
| mariod | did you read the stuff the here-map wants to know? | 19:52 |
| M4rtinK | but with the snail tempo of store improvements I'm not sure | 19:52 |
| mariod | or is it just the amazon here map? | 19:52 |
| mornfall | right... *and* I would definitely appreciate that they only give out that badge if they build the downloadable binaries from the uploaded source themselves | 19:52 |
| M4rtinK | it feels like it is being super neglected | 19:52 |
| mornfall | M4rtinK: well, engadget reviewer said something to the effect that most jolla apps are redundant anyway because you can install android replacements for them | 19:53 |
| M4rtinK | LOL | 19:53 |
| mariod | but isn't a sailfish-app better? mornfall | 19:53 |
| mornfall | seems incredibly backwards to me :-) | 19:53 |
| mornfall | but that is how mainstream thinks | 19:54 |
| M4rtinK | I have an Android version of my native Sailfish app | 19:54 |
| M4rtinK | I can smell recursion :) | 19:54 |
| M4rtinK | screw mainstream, we are #unlike, right ? :D | 19:55 |
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| pp | the government side is a lot about being auditable (which is why stuff like fips is allowed to live :-) ) | 19:55 |
| Mikaela | I still think unlike is mistranslation of "truly different"/"aidosti erilainen" | 19:56 |
| trt` | mariod, if you sell vegetables but you also have burgers that you give for free, everyone will be getting the burgers | 19:56 |
| mornfall | eh burgers | 19:56 |
| trt` | there is no incentive for developers to create sailfish apps | 19:56 |
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| trt` | cuz everyone would download the android ones | 19:57 |
| mornfall | trt`: the amount of hate android apps in harbour get is kinda surprising if that's the case | 19:57 |
| trt` | oh, I understand, mornfall | 19:58 |
| mornfall | but harbour overal is pretty much dilapidated | 19:58 |
| M4rtinK | I think it is unnecessarily hard to distribute native Sailfish apps | 19:59 |
| mornfall | you'd think that the MWC demo gadgets have jolla store removed | 19:59 |
| mornfall | because if someone opens it by accident, oh dear | 19:59 |
| M4rtinK | well, in the default channels | 19:59 |
| trt` | but at the same time would an android developer convert to a sailfish developer, if his app could run both platforms anyway | 19:59 |
| mornfall | trt`: android market is quite saturated, moving into new territory is an incentive | 20:00 |
| M4rtinK | fortunately we have OpenRepos | 20:00 |
| mornfall | M4rtinK: which suck in their own unique ways :P | 20:00 |
| mornfall | but yes, it's still a lot better than harbour | 20:00 |
| M4rtinK | I don't think anyone would still be developing for Sailfish OS otherwise | 20:01 |
| M4rtinK | mornfall: sure | 20:01 |
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| M4rtinK | mornfall: random scriptlets running as root, sure why not ? :D | 20:01 |
| trt` | well, that's a good point, mornfall. May you be right! :) | 20:01 |
| M4rtinK | but I think it is kinda Jollas fault it ended like this | 20:01 |
| M4rtinK | and you have to trust the devs anyway | 20:02 |
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| pdanek | Do you agree that most of KDE apps are still more robust than Gnome apps? | 20:02 |
| mornfall | pdanek: I thought the only desktop app left was the browser? | 20:03 |
| pdanek | mornfall: in Gnome? :D | 20:04 |
| mornfall | in the entire world | 20:04 |
| mornfall | (I'm not counting emacs as a desktop app here...) | 20:04 |
| pdanek | KDE still has the full collection. | 20:04 |
| pdanek | o | 20:04 |
| pdanek | Emacs! | 20:04 |
| mornfall | well, I basically have many terminals, emacs and firefox... | 20:06 |
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| pdanek | mornfall: What's your distro? | 20:08 |
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| mornfall | pdanek: nixos on laptop, freebsd on desktop | 20:09 |
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| mornfall | (also nixos for datacenter iron, at least for the time being) | 20:10 |
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| pdanek | mornfall: what desktop environment? | 20:13 |
| mornfall | pdanek: X11 :P with xmonad as a WM | 20:14 |
| mornfall | hm, sailfish secure made it to slashdot | 20:15 |
| pdanek | good! | 20:16 |
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| mornfall | is it? I vaguely recall that jolla got mostly mockery on previous slashdot appearances :P | 20:16 |
| pdanek | Jolla needs people to know about it. | 20:17 |
| pdanek | Doesn't matter what they write, just let people know it exists. | 20:17 |
| pdanek | Nobody knows Jolla, nobody. | 20:17 |
| mornfall | that might be a good thing right now | 20:18 |
| mornfall | avoid success at all costs :-) | 20:18 |
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| mornfall | a marketing success right now could have disastrous consequences for future prospects | 20:19 |
| pdanek | I'm just tired of every 2nd person asking me what the hell Jolla is. | 20:20 |
| pdanek | :D | 20:20 |
| pdanek | If you feel people already know it, A) All of your friends are Linux nerds, B) You're Finnish. | 20:20 |
| pdanek | :D | 20:20 |
| mornfall | you should say 'none of your business' and wink conspicuously | 20:20 |
| mornfall | C) you don't have any friends (which is really just a special case of A) | 20:21 |
| pdanek | :D | 20:22 |
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| Mikaela | A & B & C | 20:24 |
| Mikaela | if they even count me as friends, otherwise just B & C | 20:24 |
| pdanek | Problem is that even though users will read in media one week about huge success of Jolla tablet crowdfunding, second week about Sailfish 2.0 and 3rd week about Sailfish Secure, those same users will ask you on 4th week, is it that Chinese Android phone? | 20:26 |
| mornfall | :-) | 20:26 |
| mornfall | attention span of caffeine-overdosed teenagers from twitter | 20:27 |
| trt` | :) | 20:27 |
| mornfall | pdanek: it runs android apps so it has to be android right | 20:28 |
| trt` | I know a lady who was telling me she loves Nokia, she was in Japan.. Everyone there had Nokias... it's a great Japanese phone :) | 20:28 |
| mornfall | and everything is chinese, you can't really make a mistake with that | 20:29 |
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| trt` | hey hey, mornfall Microsoft closed their factory in China. They will move to Vietnam | 20:30 |
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| pdanek | Cool! | 20:30 |
| mornfall | I guess it was Apple that came up with the 'designed in California' diversion... | 20:30 |
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| r0kk3rz | trt, if you ask most australians, they will say nokia was japanese | 20:33 |
| mornfall | trt`: they will still source a metric shitton of stuff from China | 20:33 |
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| r0kk3rz | mostly because 99% of electronics have come from japan to australia | 20:34 |
| mornfall | I'm sure there are people that believe Sony is american... | 20:34 |
| mariod | i know one who thought so :D | 20:35 |
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| r0kk3rz | yeah well.... | 20:35 |
| r0kk3rz | probably an american who thinks everything is american | 20:36 |
| pdanek | Which desktop DE has most similar UI principles to Sailfish UI? Try to find some similarity and pick something, even though it's apples and oranges. | 20:36 |
| mornfall | pdanek: OSX with its exposé? | 20:37 |
| pdanek | mornfall: stick to Linux pls | 20:37 |
| mornfall | I'm sure there's a bunch of knockoffs. :P | 20:37 |
| pdanek | :D I expected that | 20:38 |
| mornfall | but I think it only ever was a 'core' feature in OSX | 20:38 |
| mornfall | the exposé-alikes were all addons or so | 20:38 |
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| r0kk3rz | sailfish is a touch oriented mobile os | 20:38 |
| mornfall | so I guess Metro is not the correct answer either | 20:38 |
| r0kk3rz | so plasma active? unity? | 20:39 |
| mornfall | plasma active is not a desktop | 20:39 |
| mornfall | and I guess even gnome3 comes closer than unity | 20:40 |
| zetaz | meego ? ;) | 20:40 |
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| zetaz | at some point they were heading toward desktop. Or maybe moblin... | 20:41 |
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| mornfall | pdanek: I really think that the home screen is characteristic for sailfish, with live grid of all active apps... which really is a lot like exposé -- easy to activate from anywhere & live preview | 20:44 |
| mornfall | pdanek: the extra in sailfish is interaction (but that's being dumbed down anyway) | 20:44 |
| r0kk3rz | or gnome3 | 20:44 |
| pdanek | hmmm | 20:44 |
| pdanek | Thanks guys for insights. | 20:45 |
| pdanek | I like to see how people think about such things. :D | 20:45 |
| mornfall | btw. plasma activities are kind-of original to Linux DEs, and something like that seems to be coming in SfOS 2 | 20:46 |
| M4rtinK | I find Gnome 3 is quite close to the N900 :) | 20:48 |
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| pdanek | KDE comeback? | 20:50 |
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| pdanek | SteamOS is based on Gnome, SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop in version 12 doesn't have KDE anymore, only Gnome, bad times for KDE. | 20:51 |
| pdanek | Plasma 5 may save it. | 20:52 |
| pdanek | And development of Qt, GTK+ isn't going anywhere, is it? | 20:52 |
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| mornfall | people have realized that widgets are not the way to go about making UIs | 20:53 |
| mornfall | at least qt has qml | 20:53 |
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| mornfall | try to imagine github or facebook in a widgetized UI | 20:54 |
| ahjolinna | well when Unity8 (Qt5 version) arrives I think that will kill gtk in the long term | 20:54 |
| mornfall | well, there is no compelling reason to use a *widget* toolkit | 20:56 |
| pdanek | ahjolinna: GTK4 is planned | 20:56 |
| ahjolinna | so | 20:56 |
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| M4rtinK | well, every UI is kinda widgetized :) | 20:56 |
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| M4rtinK | it might be called Rectangle | 20:56 |
| M4rtinK | but it is still a widget :) | 20:57 |
| mornfall | and everything is a turing machine | 20:58 |
| r0kk3rz | electrons all the way down | 20:58 |
| mornfall | you mean turtles | 20:58 |
| ahjolinna | Unity (qt) + KDE will kill GTK... no new gtk version will save it...Qt has way to big "market share" | 20:58 |
| r0kk3rz | turtles are made of electrons | 20:58 |
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| r0kk3rz | so, electrons all the way down | 20:58 |
| mornfall | r0kk3rz: electrons aren't real | 20:59 |
| mornfall | turtles are made of turtles | 20:59 |
| pdanek | Imagine Gnome switching to Qt. | 20:59 |
| pdanek | rofl | 20:59 |
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| mornfall | well, I think the idea of making a desktop for “normal users” is kind of obsolete now, and the “big” desktops kind of lived on that dream | 21:01 |
| mornfall | so I expect them to slowly fade out into oblivion | 21:01 |
| r0kk3rz | its obsolete but they'll keep chasing it | 21:03 |
| mornfall | because your average unix nerd really just needs those terminals, a browser and maybe emacs... | 21:03 |
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| mornfall | and there are easier ways to put them on a spinning cube than to write hundreds of thousands of lines of code of a desktop environment | 21:04 |
| mornfall | or whatever the visual effect du jour is | 21:04 |
| mornfall | and I guess the not-so-nerdy users will be happy enough with unity or whatever else Ubuntu throws at them | 21:04 |
| r0kk3rz | i quite like having a windowing system for terminal windows | 21:05 |
| mornfall | r0kk3rz: there are countless window managers out there :) | 21:05 |
| r0kk3rz | this is true | 21:05 |
| M4rtinK | well GTK/Gobject has some stuff Qt has not | 21:05 |
| M4rtinK | like GObject Introspection | 21:05 |
| r0kk3rz | seems to be an N+1 rule on window managers | 21:06 |
| M4rtinK | also the new GTK Inspector is nice | 21:06 |
| M4rtinK | so it is not just downsides :) | 21:06 |
| pdanek | But do you think it's a good thing? That everything is on web now? Unlike mobile. | 21:06 |
| pdanek | I mean, imagine internet bankings: | 21:06 |
| pdanek | - On mobile, it's always mobile banking app, almost never mobile web version of internet banking. | 21:06 |
| pdanek | - On desktop, it's always internet banking web, never app. | 21:06 |
| mornfall | I didn't even notice when E19 came out... | 21:06 |
| pdanek | Why PCs are web-only now? | 21:06 |
| pdanek | Imagine, in 10 years, phones will be web-only. | 21:07 |
| mornfall | pdanek: because they have enough RAM to run a browser at reasonable speed | 21:07 |
| r0kk3rz | pdanek: the websites are usually more secure than the banking apps | 21:07 |
| r0kk3rz | sad but true | 21:07 |
| mornfall | pdanek: apps are just compiled websites anyway | 21:07 |
| mornfall | pdanek: with offline resource bundles | 21:08 |
| r0kk3rz | well now browsers are their own operating systems | 21:08 |
| mornfall | well, CPU, RAM and bandwidth is what makes apps popular on phones... | 21:09 |
| mornfall | while those were scarce, we ran apps on desktops too | 21:09 |
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| mornfall | imagine using a PC with 100MB monthly data allowance | 21:12 |
| r0kk3rz | imagine? i can remember... | 21:13 |
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| mornfall | well, try it now, not 10 years ago | 21:14 |
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| r0kk3rz | theres a lot you can do on a pc that doesnt require the internet | 21:15 |
| r0kk3rz | i had a pc for many years before it had internet | 21:16 |
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| mornfall | like type into emacs, I know :-) | 21:16 |
| r0kk3rz | i didnt grow up with linux | 21:17 |
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| r0kk3rz | or other nixes | 21:18 |
| mornfall | well, what can yo udo on an offline PC anyway | 21:18 |
| the_mgt | watch your porn dvd rips? | 21:19 |
| r0kk3rz | play games, graphics work, sound work | 21:19 |
| r0kk3rz | program | 21:19 |
| mornfall | but how pointless is that if you can't brag about it on facebook afterwards? | 21:20 |
| AmadeusXNet | lolz | 21:20 |
| the_mgt | how would I debug an app on my phone? the parrot Zik 2.0 app broke, and the dev seems to be on vacation. I guess the bundled qtbluetooth 5.4 fails | 21:20 |
| r0kk3rz | yes, my life would be meaningless without the constant validation by others | 21:20 |
| mornfall | r0kk3rz: well, you didn't trash your graphics work or sound work after making it before facebook either | 21:21 |
| mornfall | but putting it on floppies and going over to your friend's place does sound obsolete :-) | 21:22 |
| r0kk3rz | well i assume in this internetless scenario that terabyte usb hdds still exist | 21:23 |
| r0kk3rz | so sneakernet has never had more bandwitdh | 21:23 |
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| * Stskeeps yawns | 21:57 | |
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| mariod | Stskeeps, go to bed *chuckle* tomorow's another day :) | 22:13 |
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| Stskeeps | mariod: on my way.. :P | 22:21 |
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| mariod | Stskeeps, ... i'll wish you a good night then :) | 22:31 |
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