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| tiwake | so much joins and parts and timeouts... and no talking | 08:09 |
|---|---|---|
| Stskeeps | it's 9am europe | 08:09 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:09 |
| Joonaa | depends on your timezone :) | 08:09 |
| tiwake | midnight pacific | 08:09 |
| Yaniel | smartfiltered joins/parts :3 | 08:09 |
| Joonaa | but i do wish i was still sleeping | 08:09 |
| Teemu | just having moarningu kofee | 08:09 |
| marsupapu | 10am here in finland, perfect time for workplace-ircing | 08:10 |
| tiwake | marsupapu: assuming its never not? | 08:10 |
| Teemu | tiwake: when in home | 08:10 |
| tiwake | heh | 08:10 |
| marsupapu | Well, worklplace ircing is uncomfortable at 10pm. | 08:10 |
| tiwake | I just got back from work | 08:11 |
| tiwake | and its midnight | 08:11 |
| tiwake | 14 hour work day, yay | 08:11 |
| tiwake | on a side note, I had a set of these waiting for me from the UPS guy | 08:12 |
| tiwake | http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-518-Headphones-Black/dp/B0042A68R8/ref=pd_rhf_gw_p_img_1 | 08:12 |
| politie | nice | 08:12 |
| tiwake | I'm having major ear gasms now | 08:12 |
| politie | stil wouldnt want to work 14 hours though | 08:12 |
| politie | :p | 08:13 |
| Joonaa | tiwake heh, i had something similar when i got my agk k 550s a week or two back | 08:13 |
| Joonaa | not THAT big of a difference, but noticeable nonetheless | 08:13 |
| Joonaa | ... i might need a better amp or sound card | 08:14 |
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| tiwake | oh gosh, that sounded so nice | 08:14 |
| tiwake | just finished listening to http://tiwake.com/perlman.m4a | 08:14 |
| Teemu | endless upgrading cycle | 08:14 |
| Joonaa | heh, yeah... if only i had money >( | 08:14 |
| tiwake | violin concerto | 08:15 |
| Joonaa | :)* | 08:15 |
| tiwake | 256 kbps AAC... one of the higher quality audio things I have on hand | 08:15 |
| tiwake | I guess aside from CD's | 08:16 |
| Joonaa | it drives me insane i cant get one album in better quality than mp3 | 08:17 |
| Joonaa | i could order the cd, but it would cost like 50eur and i dont even have a cd drive | 08:18 |
| tiwake | mp3 is not a very good compression algorithm... heh | 08:18 |
| Yaniel | Joonaa: at least the cd is available | 08:19 |
| Joonaa | Yaniel: well, theres one other album... theres only a very low quality youtube recording of it | 08:19 |
| Joonaa | i wouldnt mind paying 50eur for that, but its just not for sale | 08:20 |
| Yaniel | I wish more artists used bandcamp | 08:20 |
| Joonaa | yeah | 08:20 |
| Joonaa | i was trying to buy deadmau5's new album, but he only sells on itunes.. | 08:20 |
| Teemu | love records is the only label you'll ever need | 08:21 |
| tiwake | last I knew itunes high quality (256 kbps) audio was all DRM free | 08:21 |
| Joonaa | i just couldnt get itunes to work.. and i was looking for flac anyways | 08:22 |
| tiwake | meh | 08:22 |
| Yaniel | flac best format | 08:22 |
| tiwake | 256 kbps AAC is good enough for me :P | 08:22 |
| Joonaa | heh, i happened to find a vinyl rip of daft punk's discovery | 08:22 |
| Joonaa | 96khz 24bit flac.. | 08:23 |
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| Yaniel | heh that's getting a bit overkill though | 08:25 |
| Joonaa | true | 08:25 |
| Tegu | 96kbps mp3! | 08:25 |
| Nicd- | I've been ripping as apple lossless for a while but I can't hear any difference to a decent vbr mp3 | 08:26 |
| Nicd- | I'm glad too, don't have to pay for hifi equipment :P | 08:26 |
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| Joonaa | mm, i went from computer speakers to earbuds and then to proper headphones | 08:27 |
| Tegu | maybe the diffrence can only be heard with hifi equipment | 08:27 |
| tbr | did anyone say Opus yet? :) | 08:27 |
| Joonaa | every time i could hear more stuff | 08:27 |
| Yaniel | I have my hopes high for opus | 08:27 |
| Yaniel | on the lossy front | 08:27 |
| tbr | yes | 08:27 |
| Yaniel | and looks like it'll take over the world anyway now that it has become a Web3.0 standard | 08:27 |
| tbr | I wish chrome would support it better | 08:27 |
| Yaniel | I don't know how to feel about webm/webp yet though | 08:28 |
| tiwake | seriously, these things sound amazing | 08:28 |
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| Joonaa | webm is great for small videos (like how 4chan uses it) | 08:29 |
| tiwake | guess I was using cruddy headphones before and just didnt know it | 08:29 |
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| Yaniel | hehe yeah | 08:35 |
| Yaniel | went from sennheiser PX-200 to HD-598 and not going back | 08:35 |
| Joonaa | theres only one way to go now :P | 08:35 |
| tiwake | I was using a razor headset | 08:35 |
| Joonaa | oh god | 08:35 |
| tiwake | heh, yeah | 08:36 |
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| * tbr is looking forward to the improved WebM getting traction (VP9/opus) | 08:39 | |
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| Yaniel | I was looking into webp to see if it would make sense to add support for it in my image loader | 08:39 |
| Yaniel | (which only supports png so far but eh, that's all I use anyway) | 08:40 |
| Sail0r | http://thehackernews.com/2015/02/stock-android-email-app.html | 08:41 |
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| lainwir3d | hi o/ | 08:49 |
| Joonaa | morning | 08:49 |
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| dr_gogeta86_joll | hi | 08:52 |
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| the_mgt | is anyone here going to the Cebit in hannover next month? | 09:30 |
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| Sail0r | nope | 09:30 |
| Sail0r | does not make sense anymore | 09:31 |
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| juhaj | Hi! Any recommendations for another half when buying the phone? | 11:29 |
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| locusf | tohkbd? | 11:30 |
| politie | toholed | 11:30 |
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| politie | ah tohkbd | 11:30 |
| locusf | I just wonder if its still available | 11:31 |
| Nicd- | it is | 11:31 |
| Nicd- | http://funkyotherhalf.com/?page_id=9#!/TOHKBD2-PRE-ORDER/p/42141285/category=9141090 | 11:31 |
| Nicd- | 124 available | 11:31 |
| Nicd- | I love the tag line. "It is good. Buy it." <3 | 11:31 |
| Yaniel | sounds like something from varusteleka | 11:32 |
| Yaniel | their product descriptions tend to be hilarious | 11:32 |
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| juhaj | Is the kbd any good? | 11:50 |
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| mornfall | juhaj: nobody knows yet :P | 11:53 |
| mornfall | unless something goes horribly wrong, it's expected to be better than n900 at least | 11:53 |
| politie | it looks nice | 11:56 |
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| politie | how long does it usually take for an order to be shipped? i ordered saturday but havent had an update since the confirmation | 12:40 |
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| urs | for me it took about a week till I got a confirmation | 12:40 |
| politie | in europe? | 12:40 |
| urs | and once it got shipped, it arrived within 24 hours via express shipment. | 12:41 |
| urs | yes, to germany. | 12:41 |
| politie | ok | 12:41 |
| politie | long | 12:42 |
| Ezko | i ordered mine on a saturday and it was shipped on tuesday or wednesday | 12:42 |
| politie | well it says 1-3 work days to prepare so i suppose that should be today | 12:43 |
| politie | hopeful to get it this week | 12:44 |
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| kro | urs: I ordered feb 3rd, went into shipping yesterday evening (Germany as well) | 12:49 |
| kro | ah, meant to highlight politie, not urs | 12:51 |
| politie | 2 weeks | 12:51 |
| kro | yep, got a mail from Jolla on Feb 6th, warning me that the order would be delayed a bit. | 12:55 |
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| jaacoppi | ordered one from a local shop (DNA in Finland), waited 11 business days, got bored of waiting because they didn't offer me any explanation for the delay, cancelled my order and ordered through jolla.com on monday evening. So far nothing has happened there either | 12:58 |
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| Nicd- | didn't just go to a store and buy it? | 12:59 |
| jaacoppi | they didn't have one | 12:59 |
| jaacoppi | out of stock | 12:59 |
| Nicd- | where do you live? | 13:00 |
| jaacoppi | in Rovaniemi | 13:00 |
| jaacoppi | does it matter? | 13:00 |
| Nicd- | ah, far away | 13:00 |
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| politie | 2 weeks is ordering from ebay usa shipping time, would be dissapointing | 13:02 |
| kro | My guess is they had to wait for a batch to be shipped from china in order to replenish stocks, and that coming orders might be processed quicker - but it's just a wild guess | 13:03 |
| jaacoppi | not a wild guess, an informed guess | 13:05 |
| Joonaa | heh, i just bought one "used", unopened package, first one and all that | 13:05 |
| Joonaa | got it in a few days (the seller had some trouble shipping it) | 13:05 |
| politie | ill hope they stocked up for the valentinesday sale | 13:05 |
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| jaacoppi | I saved 50€ since I originally ordered mine before the sale and now ordered during it | 13:08 |
| Joonaa | oh thats pretty nice | 13:09 |
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| tadzik | the colour of that First One TOH is glorious | 13:11 |
| tadzik | I kind of wish they re-released it as The Late One, or The Initial Doubter :P | 13:12 |
| Yaniel | vermilion is a fun colour | 13:12 |
| Joonaa | i dont really like the orange one | 13:12 |
| Yaniel | haha :D maybe a I Don't Believe This version? | 13:12 |
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| pp | I put my money where my mouth is and got this t-shirt and this funny-coloured-cover and this lovely phone | 13:13 |
| tadzik | I'm also considering a cutout template to apply orange spraypaint onto my snow white, that leaves a "The Cheapskate" label on it :P | 13:13 |
| inte | hello anybody using a pebble here? | 13:14 |
| pp | hrmn, should start using my first one toh again, wireless charging funkytoh started cracking :( | 13:14 |
| inte | I learned recently that the pebble app on android does now support android wear-apps | 13:14 |
| Joonaa | does anyone have a 3d printed toh? | 13:14 |
| inte | will this become available for the jolla-pebble-app as well? | 13:14 |
| Joonaa | how is it? | 13:14 |
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| pp | ^- is one :-) | 13:14 |
| pp | so I'm nooooooot very happy | 13:15 |
| pp | hopefully the keyboard one is a bit more durable | 13:15 |
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| flux | inte, depends on if anyone (ie. smoku) will reverse engineer the protocol & implement it ;-) | 13:25 |
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| inte | flux: is the android app somewhat oss? | 13:41 |
| inte | in that case the protocols needn't to be reverse engineered | 13:42 |
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| stephg | @J | 13:49 |
| stephg | oops | 13:49 |
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| HtheB | guys I have a problem with my wireless connection | 14:38 |
| HtheB | I am connected to my wireless router, but it doesn't work | 14:38 |
| HtheB | I don't have any internet access... It works with all my other devices | 14:39 |
| HtheB | But my Jolla shows "connected" but doesn't do anything | 14:39 |
| Sail0r | do you have an ip address? | 14:39 |
| Sail0r | check that in settings => developer mode | 14:39 |
| HtheB | checking | 14:39 |
| flux | inte, is it? there is an SDK yes, but how about the protocol itself? | 14:40 |
| HtheB | yes | 14:40 |
| HtheB | got an ip | 14:40 |
| Sail0r | do you have developer mode enabled? | 14:40 |
| HtheB | yeah | 14:41 |
| HtheB | let me try ssh to it | 14:41 |
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| HtheB | i can access my phone from my notebook | 14:41 |
| Sail0r | what does "ip ro sh say" in the terminal? | 14:41 |
| Sail0r | * ip ro sh | 14:41 |
| HtheB | using root? | 14:41 |
| Joonaa | that souns like something out of skyrim.. | 14:41 |
| Sail0r | not necessary | 14:41 |
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| Joonaa | sounds* | 14:41 |
| Sail0r | is there smth like default via <yourrouters ip> dev wlan0 | 14:42 |
| HtheB | default via 192.168.1.1 dev wlan | 14:42 |
| Sail0r | does ping 8.8.8.8 -c 2 work? | 14:42 |
| HtheB | 192.168.1.0/24 dev wlan0 protokernel scope link src 192.168.1.9 | 14:42 |
| HtheB | 192.168.1.1 dev wlan0 scope link | 14:42 |
| HtheB | let me see | 14:42 |
| HtheB | yes | 14:43 |
| HtheB | i can ping it | 14:43 |
| Sail0r | so internet works | 14:43 |
| Sail0r | maybe you have a problem with name resolution | 14:43 |
| HtheB | ok hang on, i just tried something | 14:43 |
| Sail0r | does ping google.com -c2 work? | 14:43 |
| HtheB | seems like "internet on android apps" doesnt work | 14:43 |
| Sail0r | ah | 14:44 |
| Sail0r | restart alien dalvik does solve that problem for me most of the times | 14:44 |
| HtheB | ok, stopped android service, lets see what it does now | 14:44 |
| HtheB | aaaand indeed | 14:45 |
| HtheB | >.< | 14:45 |
| HtheB | works | 14:45 |
| Sail0r | k | 14:45 |
| Sail0r | try starting it and see | 14:45 |
| HtheB | it works thanks! | 14:45 |
| Sail0r | no problem :) | 14:45 |
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| HtheB | what would have the problem be? | 14:45 |
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| Sail0r | Don't know happens from time to time | 14:46 |
| Joonaa | hmm, that reminds me... skype sometimes doesnt send messages (receives them fine, can call etc), anyone had that? | 14:46 |
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| tigeli | HtheB: Sail0r: we know about the problem and I believe it is fixed in the current development branch | 14:47 |
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| Sail0r | cool :) | 14:48 |
| Sail0r | I am pretty happy that you silently fixed dhcpv6 on Jolla in the last update @ tigeli ;) | 14:49 |
| HtheB | hmm | 14:49 |
| tigeli | Sail0r: :) | 14:49 |
| HtheB | seems like it still isn't working properly | 14:49 |
| HtheB | like for instance: Playstore says "waiting for network" | 14:49 |
| HtheB | and Viber keeps saying that I Need an internet connection | 14:50 |
| HtheB | everything worked just fine before o_O | 14:50 |
| HtheB | while I can just browse through the playstore, and use the browser to go online | 14:51 |
| tigeli | HtheB: you are running 1.1.1.27? | 14:52 |
| HtheB | yes | 14:52 |
| Price15x | A playstore and steam native app would be nice. Are there any gamers out there? | 14:53 |
| Sail0r | I don't think Steam has open apis | 14:53 |
| Price15x | playstation store* sorry not playstore | 14:53 |
| Sail0r | you can ask them via support to publish a Steam app for Sailfish ;) | 14:53 |
| tigeli | HtheB: does it happen over reboots for you now? | 14:54 |
| * HtheB reboots phone | 14:54 | |
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| tadzik | Price15x: quite a few gamers, I've found :) | 14:55 |
| SfietKonstantinW | Price15x: good luck for the API from steam | 14:55 |
| tadzik | the steam messaging protocol has been REd afaik, bitlbee supports it | 14:55 |
| SfietKonstantinW | but a steam client would be ince, indeed | 14:55 |
| SfietKonstantinW | I would like it | 14:55 |
| tadzik | so one could indulge oneself with writing a telepathy plugin | 14:55 |
| HtheB | tigeli: turned off and on the phone | 14:55 |
| HtheB | nope, still same error | 14:55 |
| HtheB | cant install apps using wifi | 14:56 |
| Price15x | tadzik: we need to collectively vote and send a letter to steam cause they wont be able to ignore that | 14:56 |
| tadzik | yeah, that always works | 14:56 |
| SfietKonstantinW | https://imfreedom.org/wiki/Steam_Friends | 14:56 |
| tadzik | recently someone gathered 1000 votes on change.org to have hearthstone on linux, I'm sure if we can get 100 we can get it on SFOS too | 14:56 |
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| tadzik | oh, and there's https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/1320 | 14:59 |
| HtheB | tigeli: something isnt right :( | 14:59 |
| tadzik | it's reviewed, and yet no "wontfix" | 14:59 |
| tigeli | HtheB: it is pretty much aliendalvik not correctly detecing having the connectivity | 14:59 |
| tigeli | detecting | 14:59 |
| inte | flux I dont know the android app since it doesnt run on jolla anyways (no support for bluetooth in alien dalvik) | 15:00 |
| Price15x | tadzik: I think we should just ditch telepathy and look for alternatives. I been waiting for stream managment for so long! | 15:00 |
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| tadzik | stream management? | 15:00 |
| HtheB | tigeli: do you think reinstalling dalvik could solve my problem? | 15:00 |
| tigeli | HtheB: probably not | 15:01 |
| tigeli | HtheB: does it work over mobile data? | 15:01 |
| HtheB | but it always worked before? | 15:01 |
| HtheB | yeah, works fine using mobile data | 15:01 |
| tigeli | HtheB: well.. the detection is not _perfect_ | 15:01 |
| HtheB | no problems at all using mobile data | 15:02 |
| HtheB | the only problem is that I dont have much data left this month :p | 15:02 |
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| Price15x | tadzik: an extension for xmpp | 15:03 |
| tigeli | HtheB: though can't tell if the play store has some additional checks for connectivity | 15:03 |
| tigeli | but many android apps do check connectivity and for those the issues should be fixed for u11 | 15:04 |
| tadzik | Price15x: oh. Well, xmpp is basically dead to me these days anyway | 15:04 |
| HtheB | tigeli: is it working properly on the developers version? | 15:04 |
| HtheB | maybe I should get the dev updates too | 15:04 |
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| tadzik | people who I have over there are either using matrix or are reachable on IRC with higher reliability | 15:04 |
| Price15x | tadzik: well we can bring it back with privacy concerns and importance of federated software. | 15:05 |
| tigeli | HtheB: well.. can't tell about the google play | 15:05 |
| tigeli | HtheB: but other apps work :D | 15:05 |
| tigeli | HtheB: you will get a chance to try with the new update very soon ;) | 15:06 |
| tadzik | Price15x: I'd rather invest my time and resources in making matrix more popular | 15:06 |
| HtheB | :( | 15:06 |
| tadzik | https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/1320 | 15:06 |
| tadzik | erm | 15:06 |
| tadzik | http://matrix.org/ | 15:06 |
| tadzik | not the worst thing to mispaste | 15:06 |
| HtheB | tigeli: did you try out Kik? :p | 15:06 |
| HtheB | it never worked :p | 15:07 |
| tigeli | HtheB: never tried.. | 15:07 |
| tigeli | will have to check it later on | 15:07 |
| HtheB | thanks :) | 15:08 |
| HtheB | Guess it's time to use a real android device for now then | 15:08 |
| HtheB | untill the update is rolled out | 15:08 |
| tadzik | you can ninja-enable it already, I think | 15:08 |
| tadzik | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1461040&postcount=151 here | 15:09 |
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| tadzik | I didn't try, it might eat your dog | 15:09 |
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| HtheB | tadzik: thanks! Guess I'll be safe then since I dont have a dog :) | 15:09 |
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| tadzik | me neither, but I was afraid it'll eat it anyway :D | 15:10 |
| tadzik | let me know if/how it works | 15:10 |
| HtheB | ok | 15:10 |
| tadzik | it doesn't look like an intentional supported update yet :P | 15:10 |
| HtheB | any idea what the public update version number will be? | 15:12 |
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| chem|st | Stskeeps: time for your "if you break it" speech^^ | 15:26 |
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| Sail0r | is the update already rolling out for prerelease signers? | 15:29 |
| Yaniel | not for me | 15:30 |
| pp | me neither | 15:30 |
| pp | apparently cmd line updating may do bad things so :P | 15:30 |
| Sail0r | ok for me not, too ^^ | 15:30 |
| Sail0r | I won't update via cmd | 15:30 |
| Yaniel | what do you mean, I update my desktop from the cmdline all the time | 15:31 |
| Sail0r | I just wondered how people figured out the "right" version number | 15:31 |
| pp | number space isn't that big you know :-) | 15:31 |
| Sail0r | some people have too many time ^^ | 15:32 |
| pp | [pp@the ~]$ time python isitoutyet.py | 15:34 |
| pp | real 0m4.907s | 15:34 |
| pp | ;) | 15:34 |
| Sail0r | hehe | 15:35 |
| tadzik | so it's real!? :D | 15:35 |
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| HtheB | so when will the update be rolled out!? aaargh | 15:39 |
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| Aard | HtheB: soon™ | 15:54 |
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| HtheB | Aard: yeah, I'm already used to that word in many stuff | 15:56 |
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| Mikaela | you mean "real soon now™" | 15:57 |
| HtheB | Jolla, Open Pandora, Pyra, Gateway 3DS | 15:57 |
| Aard | HtheB: finishing up release notes, and no additional changes will go into early access release | 15:58 |
| HtheB | maybe i should sign up for the early access release | 15:59 |
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| stephg | \o/ | 16:14 |
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| stephg | Aard was going to ask, excited about the first EA release? has there been much interest? | 16:15 |
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| Joonaa | someone wanted a steam app earlier... considering how the android app hasnt been updated for years... not much of a chance | 16:16 |
| stephg | Joonaa: btw I have a 3d printed cover seeing as you asked | 16:17 |
| Joonaa | how is it_ | 16:17 |
| Joonaa | ?* | 16:17 |
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| HtheB | Aard: you think that the update will released this month? | 16:18 |
| stephg | it cost me about £17 and it's ok, it's allegedly glow-in-the-dark | 16:18 |
| Joonaa | smooth? | 16:19 |
| stephg | the substrate used wasn't great for doing the delicate curves but it fits, it stays on, it's, er, pink | 16:19 |
| Joonaa | or well, does it cut your fingers or anything like that? | 16:19 |
| stephg | could be smoother | 16:19 |
| stephg | nononoo | 16:19 |
| stephg | not at all | 16:19 |
| Joonaa | oh, that sounds pretty nice then | 16:19 |
| Joonaa | does it fit on as well as the original? | 16:19 |
| stephg | nearly | 16:19 |
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| stephg | and it's kept it's shape quite well too | 16:20 |
| stephg | it's a little stiffer than the real ones | 16:20 |
| Joonaa | sounds good, i guess ill print one | 16:20 |
| Joonaa | oh thats perfect | 16:20 |
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| Aard | stephg: it's a bit less than I assumed, but still quite a lot. also I guess we'll see more subscribers coming in once we post the release notes, bringing it to my original guess | 16:58 |
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| stephg | I won't ask for figures but 75% of what you'd hoped or...? | 17:03 |
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| Aard | stephg: wait, assumed != hoped. in this case it is good to have a smaller number of people who really know what they're doing | 17:07 |
| Aard | so the number is slightly higher than what I hoped for, and about 65% of what I assumed | 17:08 |
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| stephg | cool :) | 17:16 |
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| Sail0r | are all of them first ones @ Aard? ^^ | 17:19 |
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| Aard | probably not | 17:20 |
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| Pawky|2 | how bizzar, when installing vim, you get a link view -> vi , well well, I don't want to write view, i want to write vim, but renaiming view to vim makes the link not work, whilst renaming it back to view it works again... duh?? | 18:06 |
| Pawky|2 | why doew links suddenly not like to be renamed? | 18:07 |
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| Pawky|2 | (damn keyboard..) | 18:07 |
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| kro | Pawky|2: because it checks with ehich name it has been invoked | 18:26 |
| kro | Pawky|2: because it checks with which name it has been invoked, and behaves accordingly | 18:26 |
| Pawky|2 | you mean vi does? | 18:26 |
| Pawky|2 | kro: ^^ | 18:27 |
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| chem|st | if you want vim you write vi if you want to make sure to be read-only write view | 18:31 |
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| Pawky|2 | chem|st: hmm... any way to rename vi to vim? | 18:37 |
| Pawky|2 | im so used typing vim all abrevations gets me frustrated... | 18:38 |
| Yaniel | make an alias | 18:38 |
| Pawky|2 | Yaniel: hmm | 18:38 |
| Pawky|2 | could do :-) | 18:38 |
| chem|st | Pawky|2: ??? if you want to write vim write vim! | 18:40 |
| Pawky|2 | chem|st: duh? whatever I have installed none of them gives you vim.... | 18:41 |
| chem|st | the alias it... | 18:41 |
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| chem|st | using vim but not knowing about bash aliases? | 18:41 |
| kimmoli | soon better taskswitcher demo video... works now from the keyboard. still fixed 8 apps to choose from. | 18:43 |
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| FireFly | there's a proper vim package in the utilities repo | 18:51 |
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| FireFly | vim-enhanced-7.3.629-1.1.1 | 18:52 |
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| entil | jolla having issues delivering phones? the missus ordered one on the 13th and she's kinda o_O about not having the phone or even a tracking id | 18:55 |
| entil | this is finland | 18:56 |
| Yaniel | apparently they were restocking recently | 18:56 |
| entil | mmh | 18:56 |
| entil | she says it's probably due to jolla having a sale or something | 18:57 |
| entil | I'm ok with that theory, but it seems weird that they say 2-4 days on the site and don't even send an email saying they're restocking or busy with the deliveries or whatever | 18:57 |
| faenil | :/ | 18:59 |
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| Nicd- | entil: heh, I'm waiting for one order of mine from another store. ordered in november, it'll probably arrive in may... :P | 19:03 |
| entil | Nicd-: probably not a jolla now? | 19:03 |
| Sail0r | maybe the tablet? :P | 19:04 |
| entil | haha | 19:04 |
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| Nicd- | entil: no, completely unrelated | 19:05 |
| Nicd- | but it was supposed to arrive in january | 19:05 |
| entil | well... retail phones should ship fast, especially if they promise to, but restocking sounds like they're sold out which is a good thing for the company :) | 19:06 |
| jaacoppi | entil: we just talked about this a few hours ago. Most people who have orsered recently are still waiting. I ordered in january. | 19:09 |
| entil | shit, bro | 19:09 |
| entil | that's a long wait | 19:09 |
| entil | not going to mention that to the missus, she'd probably cancel the order and buy android for the refund | 19:10 |
| messerting | entil: Be sure to buy a phone that you can install Sailfish OS on later ;) | 19:11 |
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| jaacoppi | hah, do whatever keeps her happy | 19:11 |
| entil | I'm actually pretty puzzled about her buying a jolla; she never got excited about the ui or anything, but apparently the lumia ui put her off in a big way | 19:11 |
| entil | like making jokes that jolla is a geek phone because only geeks care about simplicity, and the lumia ain't simple :D | 19:12 |
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| entil | (I don't get the joke, really, why would only geeks care about simplicity? and there are enterprise java geeks.. and probably some amount of geek went into the lumia ui as well..) | 19:14 |
| jaacoppi | maybe it's because simple and easy are not the same? I don't get it either | 19:15 |
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| entil | I've found geeks pretty much fall into two camps; one is the people who like simple and elegant solutions to problems and the other is people who like huge solutions even if they don't fit a problem | 19:17 |
| r0kk3rz | or people that want a configuration item for everything | 19:17 |
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| entil | I like simple but I'm ok with configuration items | 19:17 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah but i mean *everything* | 19:19 |
| entil | hehe | 19:19 |
| the_mgt | there are people with OCD | 19:19 |
| r0kk3rz | personally i like the whole simple elegant well designed solution | 19:20 |
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| r0kk3rz | but ive come across people who dont like that, and want massive configuration dialogs because they dont want to have to write code | 19:20 |
| entil | I had to use OSX for a while way back, hated how it felt like tying my hands behind my back | 19:20 |
| entil | "this is the osx way and if you don't like it piss off" | 19:21 |
| Yaniel | OSX is okay when you have no problems using a terminal | 19:21 |
| entil | app-switching still raises all your terminals? | 19:21 |
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| entil | I hated that | 19:21 |
| Yaniel | yes | 19:21 |
| Yaniel | I'm also missing focus-follows-mouse | 19:22 |
| the_mgt | I have used Gentoo and OSX, I like both. I get raving mad when using win8 | 19:22 |
| Teemu | i have always hated focus follows mouse | 19:22 |
| r0kk3rz | "this is the osx way, dont like it? then stick around until the next version where we decide its old and crusty and change everything" | 19:22 |
| entil | Teemu: this is why some configuration options are nice | 19:22 |
| Yaniel | I hated ffm at first when I started using awesome | 19:22 |
| Teemu | r0kk3rz: osx ux seems very stable compared to windos, where everything literally is never the same for different versions | 19:23 |
| the_mgt | yeah, I am still more of a focus follows mouse person, too | 19:23 |
| r0kk3rz | the xp->7 jump was ok, everyone knows 8 jumped the shark | 19:23 |
| Teemu | entil: no, focus follows mouse is just Wrong(TM) :) no need for configuration items on that :) | 19:23 |
| entil | there's this new OS called linux, with multiple "distributions", constantly shifting their windowing systems around and changing how it boots up and introducing interesting bugs in upgrades - I'm kinda sure windows is more stable | 19:24 |
| Nicd- | personally I'm most productive on OS X and I mostly love the UI and UX | 19:24 |
| Teemu | entil: that's why i never liked the linuxes | 19:24 |
| Nicd- | just to add some heat to the fire | 19:24 |
| Teemu | Nicd-: i tolerate osx and love to use it as i cannot get distracted in the "lets configure some window manager options" -game | 19:25 |
| Teemu | there are no options | 19:25 |
| entil | Teemu: I'm almost at the point of looking into pcbsd, but it's got a lot of hate and I'm sure a ton of stuff still won't work | 19:25 |
| Nicd- | linux on desktop is kind of an excercise in frustration sometimes | 19:25 |
| Teemu | it is like a carvers knife, there is only the blade and a minimal handle and you deal with it | 19:25 |
| r0kk3rz | entil: grass is always greener huh | 19:25 |
| Teemu | entil: freebsd has been okay for me on desktops up until the moment i got a free used mac | 19:25 |
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| entil | r0kk3rz: beats me, I haven't had linux-on-desktop issues apart from systemd not being ok with an encrypted hard drive, but after all the initial installation pain is suffered, things tend to Just Work | 19:26 |
| Teemu | entil: only gripe of freebsd on desktop for me ever has been its lousy automounter, which they finally have replaced with something better | 19:26 |
| Nicd- | at work I use linux but I have to deal with multiple problems like displays shutting down on their own, key combos not working and random crashes... | 19:27 |
| Nicd- | it's still great for web development | 19:27 |
| r0kk3rz | systemd does seem a little too new to be everywhere | 19:27 |
| the_mgt | dragonfly bsd looks interesting, hammerfs sounds nice. but i could not care enough to try | 19:27 |
| Yaniel | yeah I'm curious to try drangonflybsd | 19:27 |
| r0kk3rz | init is old and crusty, but at least theres 1001 blog posts and forum threads about it | 19:27 |
| Yaniel | but somehow I'm not sure I'll get even an xserver running on it trivially | 19:28 |
| entil | hmm, I haven't had a display glitch in years (ran both closed- and open-source ati/amd drivers, and the binary nvidia) | 19:28 |
| Teemu | entil: i used freebsd on desktop from 1994 to 2007 at which point i was given the mac mini | 19:28 |
| entil | nice | 19:28 |
| r0kk3rz | i remember having lots of fun getting compiz to work on my laptop with ati drivers | 19:29 |
| r0kk3rz | but this was some time ago | 19:29 |
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| Teemu | naturally i had to be careful when buying hardware to first read the -stable mailing list about possible issues and check that there is support and all that | 19:29 |
| the_mgt | I am using a macbook air now for over a year, and i am happy as a pig in the mud. i have gentoo-prefix and a windows vm, most things run native and fairly fine. and there are things that simply don't work on linux, like my livescribe pen | 19:29 |
| Nicd- | entil: I have to have an unsupported kernel to even get the displays to work. even then one of them keeps shutting down and I need to lock and reopen the computer to get it working again | 19:29 |
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| entil | Nicd-: which gfx card and what kinds of screens do you use? | 19:30 |
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| the_mgt | but I prefer the jolla phone over an iphone any time, i love the swiping ux | 19:30 |
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| Teemu | things i like of the mac way: i can reliably get a presentation going with just plugging to the given cable and dragging the window | 19:30 |
| entil | yeah, the jolla's damned near perfect | 19:30 |
| entil | Teemu: I sound like a broken record but that's worked on all my setups for quite a few years ;P | 19:31 |
| Nicd- | entil: it's a dell e7440 (intel hd 4400 apparently) connected to a dell dock, it has three displays connected. | 19:31 |
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| Teemu | usually it is the linux guys who are struggling to enable their external display and finding out that tricks need to be done to move a window from display to display | 19:31 |
| Teemu | not all linux users suffer from this | 19:31 |
| entil | Nicd-: hdmi involved? | 19:31 |
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| the_mgt | yeah, presentations on linux. a mixed bag | 19:32 |
| entil | Teemu: xrandr is easy to fuck up, enlightenment's screen conf tool is good, something called "grandr" back in the day sucked balls, no idea about the mainstream | 19:32 |
| Nicd- | entil: two displays are connected with DVI in the dock, one is connected via HDMI straight from the laptop. | 19:32 |
| Nicd- | but the HDMI one is not having problems, it's one of the DVI ones | 19:32 |
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| entil | hmm ok, interesting.. just that hdmi is kind of crippled (because hdcp?) that causes three screens to fail | 19:33 |
| Teemu | i remember the days when enlightenment was considered bloaty and i thought i'd never want to spend years on getting the display JUST RIGHT | 19:33 |
| entil | except reports that are as rare as reliable UFO sigthings about three screens on hdmi actually working on some setup | 19:33 |
| Teemu | its promoters were most interested about how exactly one can configure the visuals | 19:34 |
| entil | enlightenment? bloaty? wat? :D sorry, bro; enlightenment's been a lot of things but never bloaty | 19:34 |
| entil | yeah, eye-candy it was, not so much anymore | 19:34 |
| entil | they've toned that down significantly, but thinking back on the visuals they actually pulled off *smoothly* on a software-rendered 800MHz computer, it was crazy good for its time | 19:35 |
| spider-mario | why are you talking in the past tense? | 19:35 |
| spider-mario | it still exists | 19:35 |
| entil | spider-mario: because it's not as show-offish as it was | 19:36 |
| spider-mario | and it can probably still pull that off on a 800 MHz computer | 19:36 |
| spider-mario | oh | 19:36 |
| pp | <enlightenment> I'm not dead yet! | 19:36 |
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| Teemu | i never tried enlightenment as it was promoted as mostly eyecandy, which i wasn't interested in | 19:36 |
| entil | today you can try it for performance :D | 19:36 |
| entil | I mean, using anything but e19 feels slow - and that's the number one comment I get when showing people e19, "that seems real fast" | 19:37 |
| Teemu | much like gentoo might be a neat linux i never tried as its promoters were mostly interested in the ability to compile _everything_ multiple times a day using unsupported amounts of crazy -O100500 flags | 19:37 |
| attah | you could run it for performance 10 years ago :P | 19:37 |
| entil | yeah, enlightenment's always been ahead of the game | 19:38 |
| entil | dunno if they caused themselves problems by focusing on the eye-candy way back, but who cares, e19 is the best shit in town today ;P | 19:38 |
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| Teemu | i used a very minimal icewm | 19:40 |
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| ikarus | xmonad4life :P | 19:41 |
| * ikarus stokes the fires a bit more | 19:41 | |
| attah | speaking of unrelated things.. what kind of modems are in the Nokia Asha range anyway? | 19:42 |
| Teemu | i've been using osx for a while but now for the latest updates it seems their vm scheduler is buggy | 19:42 |
| Teemu | annoying | 19:42 |
| Nicd- | more fire: I've never used a custom window manager | 19:42 |
| Teemu | if a process falls into swap it'll just slowly rot to die | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | attah: i kinda just presume they're a baseband and that's it | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | maybe a qualcomm modem or a infenion | 19:42 |
| Teemu | Nicd-: what's a custom window manager compared to a stock one? | 19:42 |
| attah | Stskeeps: i was making the question more accessible i hoped.. :) what i wanted to know is who makes it.. | 19:43 |
| attah | hmm | 19:43 |
| Stskeeps | i don't really know | 19:43 |
| Stskeeps | broadcom? | 19:43 |
| Stskeeps | is an option too | 19:43 |
| attah | okay | 19:44 |
| Nicd- | Teemu: something not out of the box. :P so currently I'm using OS X at home and Ubuntu GNOME at work and just use what they come with | 19:44 |
| Nicd- | I've been thinking of trying a tiling thing but don't know if it's worth the effort | 19:44 |
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| Nicd- | closest thing I've come to a tiling window manager is tmux :D | 19:45 |
| attah | I use solaris at work *shudder* | 19:46 |
| pp | asha could still be evolution of their inhouse stuff I guess? | 19:46 |
| Teemu | attah: and cde is not the bestest ever? :) | 19:46 |
| attah | Teemu: i actually cheat and use a linux machine and x-forward anything back to that | 19:47 |
| Teemu | Nicd-: ahhh... i come from the days when there was no "out of the box window manager" and the most usual choice was to run twm or tvtwm | 19:47 |
| Teemu | the whole idea to create another distro just for the urpose of different default wm seems really stupid to me | 19:48 |
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| juhaj | Is OpenVPN available prepackaged for jolla/sailfish from some public repo? | 19:51 |
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| cryorat | juhaj, yes, but only a cli version afaik | 19:52 |
| juhaj | A cli version? I'm not sure what you mean. OpenVPN is a daemon. What other version of it would there be and what would be the point? | 19:54 |
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| spider-mario | wtf, | 20:00 |
| spider-mario | why does enlightenment depend on bullet | 20:00 |
| spider-mario | what kind of physic simulation does it do? :D | 20:01 |
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| Pebby | I accidentally thought I was in #e and my IRC client had screwed up for a second here, LOL | 20:10 |
| Pebby | I've been using E as my desktop since the birth of e17 and I just wanted to +1 assertions that it's awesome. Configurable, useful, and the 'builtins' like the file browser are getting it to the point where you might almost call it a DE. Also runs fine on old, old hardware. | 20:12 |
| Pebby | Kinda sad it never took off in the phone environment. But then I'm just as sad the N9 didn't take off either except in the form of a phone I can't buy in the states. :> | 20:13 |
| Teemu | i'd actually just like a window manager and a decent file monger | 20:13 |
| Teemu | concept of a more holistic desktop environment to me is more of an issue of UX guidelines and common set of widgets | 20:13 |
| Pebby | It's actually my favorite WM unless you like something like tiling | 20:13 |
| Teemu | i hate things like "lets make a sound daemon to louzily use crappy software to do a task the sound card does brilliantly in hardware" | 20:14 |
| Pebby | It's the most understandable (to me) window-placing thingy out there.. good, easy rules for stacking, placement, window/screen remembering, etc. | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | Pebby: well, you might argue that tizen mobile is a perverted, perverted E instance.. | 20:14 |
| Pebby | Uhh yeah lets not talk about network-manager or pulseaudio which are solutions to 1 problem I have and 99 problems I don't ;) | 20:15 |
| Pebby | Stskeeps: Yeah, and openmoko 'tried' it.. but, again, it existing and it taking off are two different things | 20:15 |
| Stskeeps | openmoko ui.. first one that made me want to throw it out of the window when i got it | 20:16 |
| juhaj | Pebby: Don't forget the 999 problems they create you did not have before | 20:16 |
| Pebby | Fingers crossed as always, and, as a happy *nix user of many years, I don't mind using something unpopular as long as it does what I want. I loved my N9.. fingers crossed for jolla in the US. :) | 20:16 |
| Pebby | juhaj: Don't worry, I never forgot. Which is why I don't install or use either! | 20:17 |
| juhaj | Pebby: The sad thing is if you need to skype, you need to install pulseaudio nowadays :( | 20:17 |
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| juhaj | Latest problem pulseaudio has created for me is that it "detects" the "speakers" in the display I often hook into the mini-DP port and makes that the default sink. Too bad the monitor in question does not actually HAVE speakers. | 20:18 |
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| Pebby | Stskeeps: I know.. it was sad, really. The N9 really just did it right, so I'm happy to see the ideas living on. The whole concept of the sharing (through what app?) and sending (through what app?) thing was just ahead of its time for phones. Ironically 40 years old for unix. ;P I laugh as apple, etc. try to implement it. | 20:19 |
| juhaj | Worst of all is it remembers the non-existent speakers after I unplug the display and STILL uses them as default output. Haven't found another way to fix this except kill pulseaudio. While monitor is hooked in, it's no audio for me unless the software lets me choose which output device it uses (most software don't) | 20:20 |
| Pebby | juhaj: Really? I had no idea skype needed it. I've never used it outside of windows I think. I think that's what peoples' concerns over things like pulseaudio and systemd are.. that they become so big they are the de-facto thing and get required by every app under the sun. | 20:20 |
| Pebby | Because I legitimately understand that the solution for audio devices coming and going should not be "a script the user writes on his own" for a desktop linux user... but that works, so why not make software to help the user make those scripts instead of the insanity that is pulse? | 20:21 |
| juhaj | Pebby: They're already there, I'm afraid. The only glimmer of hope is that someone writes a better alternative. Too bad they have the M$-problem in them: they change the spec so fast that no one else concievably can write a compatible software .( | 20:21 |
| Pebby | Just like plenty of DE's have visual config utilities for text config files. Pulse (and gnome) just seem to go against everything great about linux. | 20:21 |
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| Teemu | ohhhh networkmonger... things i hate in "them linuxes" | 20:21 |
| Pebby | juhaj: Right.. make it so big and useful that they can gain enough other-dev mindshare so there's no going back. At least there are still enough crusty old fogies out there to not be distracted by the 'new shiny,' I hope. | 20:22 |
| Pebby | Yeah, let's make linux more like Windows! We have that. It's called Windows. Next. | 20:23 |
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| Pebby | In any case.. as long as BSD exists and distros like Gentoo and Arch are around, I don't worry too much. If a giant proprietary piece of software like Skype wants to pull pulse in, fine. mplayer and mpd still work great with just alsa. | 20:24 |
| juhaj | Well, I'm distracted by my N9 having become sluggish all of a sudden. Calendar always freezes when I add something (so it asks me if I want to kill it – I don't as it will recover in a few minutes). I did not even install anything since ages ago. It just turned this way suddenly. Its battery is also almost gone, so I'm being very much distracted by jolla now ;) | 20:24 |
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| Yaniel | renoise actually requires me to kill pulse altogether | 20:24 |
| ikarus | Pebby: Skype can avoid using pulse if you use apulse or the like | 20:24 |
| chem|st | Pebby: people like to buy boxes and stack them, no need to know what is in the box, just that it fits to their other boxes | 20:24 |
| ikarus | Pebby: which just translates pulseaudio calls to alsa | 20:25 |
| Pebby | ikarus: I was not aware, but that's good to know in case I ever need it | 20:25 |
| ikarus | I am still annoyed at Skypekit being dead | 20:25 |
| Pebby | juhaj: That's what brought me here a year or so ago. My N9 finally bit the dust, but I need a US-supported phone too. Waiting and watching. | 20:26 |
| juhaj | US-supported? Why would jolla not work in the US? | 20:27 |
| Pebby | chem|st: What do you mean? That sounds like the desire for modular software.. which is sort of what pulse/etc. pitch but then it's not really modular if piece A only connects with piece B. | 20:27 |
| juhaj | My N9 does and I thought they have the same radios | 20:27 |
| Pebby | juhaj: It works but only at 2G.. wrong frequencies. | 20:27 |
| Pebby | juhaj: No, N9 has different bands supported. | 20:27 |
| juhaj | ok | 20:28 |
| Pebby | So my N9 works fine on 3g networks since it has an additional band (1900mhz or whatever, can't remember offhand) we use here on the AT&T network | 20:28 |
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| chem|st | Pebby: I'd say all vendors should stick to US incompatible until US adapts because they are pissed at being unsupported | 20:28 |
| Pebby | chem|st: Haha, we can hope for that scenario, but I find it hard to believe that carriers will just switch their infrastructure for very little reason. The popular phones here seem to sell just fine. | 20:30 |
| Pebby | I think I would sooner leave the country than that happen, hehe. | 20:30 |
| chem|st | Pebby: US market is not worth to adapt... | 20:30 |
| Pebby | chem|st: Not for an insurgent, I agree. Although the N9 was (apparently?) successful, I don't know if that could happen again. | 20:31 |
| chem|st | it is a prestige market, money is elsewhere | 20:31 |
| Pebby | But I also don't know the costs of having a multi-band radio like the N9 had or what the benefits are outside of US support (e.g. do other countries benefit). | 20:31 |
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| Pebby | They're at least shipping the tablet to the US... maybe it's a trial to see how the US market likes it? There's no hardware burden for them, just FCC shenanigans which I don't know much about, as far as the variance from country to country. | 20:33 |
| chem|st | FCC for wifi is peanuts compared to gsm | 20:35 |
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| Pebby | chem|st: I figured as much.. I'm not sure if it's the same with wifi, but with the hardware I do work on, since the components are all 'known' and have been through the ringer, we don't do much other than declare them to be in our device, I believe. | 20:36 |
| chem|st | yeah most of the time you do not even need to send in a device | 20:37 |
| chem|st | report | 20:37 |
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| chem|st | bundled hardware you send in a picture and a shopping list... | 20:39 |
| chem|st | or just schematics | 20:39 |
| Pebby | yeah we just sent the patent + schematics I believe | 20:39 |
| chem|st | patent only if you want it protected at FCC | 20:40 |
| chem|st | for gsm otoh you need a full blown testing stack and sometimes even send a prototype | 20:41 |
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| juhaj | Is there any indication as to whether a) there is going to be Jolla v2 soon or b) Jolla is going to stop selling the phone? | 22:01 |
| Yaniel | there have been hints at a) iirc | 22:04 |
| r0kk3rz | juhaj: not that long until MWC | 22:04 |
| * cb400f doubts there'll be a Jolla 2 phone until some time after the tablet is released | 22:05 | |
| r0kk3rz | given they did the whole indiegogo thing for the tablet, they'll probably do the same thing for the next phone | 22:06 |
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