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| bennypr0fane | hi, would anyone know if we currently have a ways to mount a webdav share on the jolla? | 00:14 |
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| Oksana | bennypr0fane: OwnCloud, SyncEvolution? https://www.wolf-kissendorf.de/wordpress/?p=168 | 00:25 |
| Oksana | bennypr0fane: SyncEvolution for WebDav, in short: https://openrepos.net/content/ovekaaven/syncevolution | 00:27 |
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| bennypr0fane | Oksana, I have Syncevolution installed actually! so it can mount a webdav share locally? | 00:37 |
| Oksana | I don't know. It's just the only app I have found that deals with WebDav, in any way. | 00:38 |
| bennypr0fane | there's also Cargo dock. It's supposed to support logging into Owncloud, but I can't make it work. | 00:40 |
| Oksana | Linux users can mount WebDAV shares using the davfs2 and the fusedav file system modules which mount them as Coda or FUSE filesystems. http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/hardy/man8/mount.davfs.8.html | 00:41 |
| Oksana | bennypr0fane: Try this one? https://openrepos.net/content/nieldk/davfs2 | 00:41 |
| Oksana | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1455336 | 00:42 |
| bennypr0fane | Oksana: I can't install that, it has unmet dependencies: libcrypto 1.0.0. | 00:44 |
| bennypr0fane | do you have it installed or are able to install it? | 00:44 |
| bennypr0fane | I just posted on the page in openrepos that it won't install for me | 00:45 |
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| chem|st | bennypr0fane: cargo dock can connect to webdav | 00:48 |
| Oksana | bennypr0fane: Maybe, for libcrypto you need to install openssl or something, not sure: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1417433#post1417433 | 00:49 |
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| Oksana | ^yes, crypto = OpenSSL cryptographic library | 00:50 |
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| bennypr0fane | chem|st: then why does it say it can? | 00:52 |
| chem|st | bennypr0fane: I have cargo dock working with owncloud if that may help you, server is url "youserver.com" and path is for me "/owncloud/remote.php/webdav" | 00:52 |
| chem|st | if you are using ssl you might need to connect to the server with a browser first to accept the cert | 00:53 |
| chem|st | at least that is what I needed to do to get caldav working | 00:53 |
| bennypr0fane | chem|st: hm, my Sailfish browser has the certificate stored... | 00:54 |
| bennypr0fane | but if it's working for you, then why did you say Cargo Doc can't do it? | 00:55 |
| Oksana | chem|stbennypr0fane: cargo dock can connect to webdav | 00:55 |
| chem|st | bennypr0fane: I said "can" | 00:56 |
| chem|st | anyway good night | 00:56 |
| bennypr0fane | chem|st: oops, sorry | 00:56 |
| bennypr0fane | good night then | 00:56 |
| bennypr0fane | so would you happen to know where it is mounted to loaclly, on the Jolla? | 00:57 |
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| bennypr0fane | the question is now, how can I move something into that share via rsync? | 01:04 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | locusf, or any finn can make a resume for me | 13:21 |
| dr_gogeta86 | https://tollevilvanen.wordpress.com/2015/01/20/hybris/ | 13:21 |
| dr_gogeta86 | google translate give out a very pool translation | 13:21 |
| locusf | dr_gogeta86: lol thats just a troll guy airing out, nothing to do with libhybris | 13:22 |
| dr_gogeta86 | I've understand it a bit ... | 13:22 |
| dr_gogeta86 | is another not hired who spit against ? | 13:23 |
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| locusf | dr_gogeta86: no its about how he thinks that Jolla has lied to the public by claiming that they are a million euro business | 13:30 |
| locusf | dr_gogeta86: + some other other crap | 13:30 |
| dr_gogeta86 | for sure got 1k euro business just with me | 13:30 |
| dr_gogeta86 | :-D | 13:30 |
| dr_gogeta86 | 2 jollas + tabs | 13:30 |
| locusf | nah billion euro business | 13:30 |
| dr_gogeta86 | I don't care | 13:31 |
| locusf | I've got 3 :p | 13:31 |
| tadzik | 3 billion euro businesses? :P | 13:31 |
| dr_gogeta86 | ahaha | 13:31 |
| locusf | lol :p | 13:31 |
| dr_gogeta86 | to be back on track | 13:32 |
| dr_gogeta86 | i need to open a post on togheter | 13:32 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | I can't rebalance btrfs anymore | 13:32 |
| dr_gogeta86 | the best way to fix ? | 13:33 |
| locusf | btrfs transplant | 13:33 |
| dr_gogeta86 | I've still got phone fully functional | 13:33 |
| locusf | oh rebalance doesn't work, why? | 13:33 |
| dr_gogeta86 | btrfs bugs | 13:33 |
| locusf | out of space? | 13:33 |
| dr_gogeta86 | a bit | 13:34 |
| dr_gogeta86 | but sometimes i got also kernel oops | 13:34 |
| dr_gogeta86 | without doing any | 13:34 |
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| jubo2 | The MSFT Exchange App.. Our school has bought MSFT licenses for basically all the things they sell. Still I'm not able to connect the app to the respective servers using the account marked "Exchange" | 13:39 |
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| cvp_ | is there a sample from Lime + Nadeshiko Pink Rington/Message Ton ? | 14:43 |
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| iekku | 2 minutes to community meeting | 14:59 |
| iekku | one | 14:59 |
| politie | where | 15:00 |
| Scelt | #mer-meeting | 15:00 |
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| tiwake | what is the purpose for #mer-meeting anyway | 15:15 |
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| SK_work | tiwake: meetings related to the mer project | 15:33 |
| SK_work | there are the sailfish-porters bug tiraging meeting here too | 15:33 |
| tiwake | tiraging? | 15:34 |
| daitheflu | triaging | 15:35 |
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| tiwake | oh, heh | 15:35 |
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| SK_work | meh | 15:35 |
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| SK_work | triaging | 15:35 |
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| tiwake | SK_work: it seems like its more than just mer stuff though? | 15:40 |
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| kontio | yes and it has a bot which supports to have online meetings, with publishing meeting minutes etc... | 15:52 |
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| Mikaela | is there a way or request for automatically sorting apps? "sort apps" query at together.jolla.com didn't seem to bring results | 16:00 |
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| kontio | Mikaela: where do you want to sort apps? | 16:02 |
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| Mikaela | in the app list, I am not sure what it's called | 16:03 |
| kontio | in Store app? | 16:03 |
| Mikaela | not in store, app launcher | 16:03 |
| Mikaela | when you open the screen and scroll down | 16:03 |
| tbr | Mikaela: how would you like them sorted? | 16:04 |
| kontio | ah ok we call it launcher or launcher grid | 16:04 |
| Mikaela | tbr: I am thinking of alphabetic order as I am lazy, but usage or category would also be nic | 16:04 |
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| artemma | I think I remember that the order of apps is managed by lipstick (basically just a settings file somewhere) | 16:05 |
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| kontio | I can't remember that I would have seen a request for that, but there are so many :D and I can't remember them all... | 16:05 |
| artemma | I don't think there is an API to manage it though and you probably can't modify it if listick is running (that happens always) | 16:06 |
| artemma | thoygh you won't be allowed to mess with that file anyway | 16:06 |
| * artemma actually wanted to make an app for sorting apps (remember: I used to have 7 screens of apps - hard to navigate), but no API - no possibility | 16:06 | |
| Mikaela | I see. I can probably live with this order as I don't have so many screens yet. It just feels weird and the order is just which order I installed everything in. | 16:07 |
| Mikaela | My other issues seemed to have requests and I opened one question | 16:07 |
| tbr | what peeves me in this context is that updates move apps to the very bottom | 16:08 |
| Mikaela | Should I write something to together.jolla.com about this? | 16:09 |
| Mikaela | that doesn't sound nice | 16:09 |
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| kontio | I think the order is in /home/nemo/.config/lipstick/applications.menu | 16:11 |
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| * artemma wonders if it could be overshadowed by config file in the user directory | 16:13 | |
| artemma | then you could override the order to be applied after reboot | 16:13 |
| artemma | and you could messup your jolla completely as well :) | 16:13 |
| kontio | but yeah just changing the order w/o restarting lipstick does not change the order... | 16:13 |
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| kontio | it's already the users home :) | 16:14 |
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| artemma | BTW, has everybody already seen by wonderful profound post of some of Sailfish OS UI VS iOS Android and partially BlackBerry and Windows Phone? :D http://www.codingsubmarine.com/life-after-jolla-android-and-ios/ | 16:30 |
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| artemma | kontio: I meant the .cache dir or wherever users apps can keep its data | 16:30 |
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| SK_work | artemma: interesting read | 17:12 |
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| Stskeeps | https://blog.jolla.com/whats-going-iteration-1-2015/ | 19:04 |
| attah | Nice :) | 19:07 |
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| r0kk3rz | does everyone really work on laptops? | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | there's docking stations | 19:08 |
| r0kk3rz | oh good, my neck would kill me working on a laptop screen all day | 19:09 |
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| r0kk3rz | that and lack of multiple monitors | 19:09 |
| attah | seems most companies do that nowadays.. | 19:09 |
| warfare | r0kk3rz: Thats what laptop stands are for. | 19:09 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah my last two jobs have used laptops as workstations, but they spend 90% of their time in docking stations | 19:10 |
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| VDVsx | most companies use laptops nowadays, but ofc there are docking stations and monitors | 19:10 |
| r0kk3rz | just that all photos of jolla HQ ive seen have had people staring at laptop screens on desks | 19:10 |
| VDVsx | never had a desktop at work afair | 19:10 |
| Stskeeps | r0kk3rz: the staring is from just how many bugs they have assigned to them | 19:10 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:11 |
| VDVsx | wrong corner of the office <.p | 19:11 |
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| r0kk3rz | haha | 19:13 |
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| kimmoli | desktop ftw (+laptop for meetings) | 19:15 |
| r0kk3rz | laptops are fine, so long as you have a nice speedy build server | 19:17 |
| attah | kimmoli: what are the gains of that over a docked laptop? | 19:17 |
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| temmi_moo | i'd like to use a proper hhkb (with a real enter, not available) along with jeri shades for display device | 19:17 |
| kimmoli | i dont want carry a laptop with enough horsepower for all the tasks i do | 19:18 |
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| r0kk3rz | you'd be surprised what laptops can do these days kimmo | 19:18 |
| attah | fair enough.. although i'd rather remote to a server | 19:19 |
| temmi_moo | red crap has some nice display protocol, vdi, for that remoting | 19:19 |
| kimmoli | yes, i remote to my desktop usually | 19:19 |
| temmi_moo | seems to work fine | 19:19 |
| r0kk3rz | they still lack a little in the graphics department, but thats because desktop graphics cards are still massive power hungry silicon melting beasts | 19:19 |
| attah | temmi_moo: what are these "jeri shades"? they seem ungooglable.. | 19:19 |
| temmi_moo | attah: jeri ellsworth along with some pals of hers founded technical illusions and are developing castar | 19:20 |
| temmi_moo | keybuzzwords | 19:20 |
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| attah | funky :) | 19:21 |
| temmi_moo | very | 19:23 |
| temmi_moo | think about it: i'd have something in the thigh pocket that has connectors for a hhkb and jeri shades | 19:24 |
| temmi_moo | how cool would that be? | 19:24 |
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| kimmoli | r0kk3rz: i have kinda nice laptop too | 19:26 |
| r0kk3rz | http://technicalillusions.com/ << interesting | 19:28 |
| r0kk3rz | does it actually work? | 19:28 |
| r0kk3rz | oh | 19:29 |
| r0kk3rz | you're strapping a projector to your face | 19:30 |
| r0kk3rz | lol | 19:30 |
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| Niju | So I got my Jolla today | 19:31 |
| temmi_moo | <3 | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | woo :) | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | did you upgrade it first chance you got and re-run the tutorial? | 19:32 |
| falfa | woo | 19:32 |
| Niju | I did yes :) | 19:33 |
| * Mikaela got her Jolla yesterday but no one said anything about re-running the tutorial | 19:33 | |
| Niju | coming from a moto g and was a bit apprehensive | 19:33 |
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| Niju | but, it is so slick! | 19:34 |
| Niju | :D | 19:34 |
| Stskeeps | Mikaela: it helps a bit to explore everything | 19:34 |
| Mikaela | I am running it now | 19:34 |
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| Niju | the screen is actually a lot nicer than i expected | 19:35 |
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| attah | Imo all but the plastic frame around it is just aswesome. That part feels a bit "samsung"... | 19:36 |
| Mikaela | I don't think it had anything changed, but I think I already learne moving around | 19:37 |
| Niju | lol, as soon as i looked at it, felt it and switched on, all I could think of was...'Nokia' :D | 19:37 |
| Mikaela | only the settings cover is somewhat mystery to me with those favourites | 19:37 |
| Mikaela | my previous Nokia was E63 and there have been some changes since it | 19:38 |
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| Stskeeps | cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVdQx6ZjGuo | 19:41 |
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| kimmoli | Stskeeps: nice. did see something like this before, but it had kinda large supercap | 19:49 |
| Niju | Anyone tested to see if the alarm comes on if switched off? i did but it turned on and showed a usb cable charge icon | 19:49 |
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| Niju | alarm came on after i switched it on lol | 19:50 |
| attah | Stskeeps: yup, saw that when it was on slashdot :) want one for recipes in the kitchen! | 19:54 |
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| temmi_moo | damn you, leela | 19:59 |
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| urs | Anybody know what the requirements are for an .ogg file to be usable as a ringtone? | 20:21 |
| urs | I have one that my phone just permanently refuses even to list in the "Select from music files" list. | 20:22 |
| tbr | probably should contain vorbis audio | 20:22 |
| tbr | as ogg is just a generic container | 20:22 |
| Yaniel | and ahould be in the right place | 20:22 |
| urs | it does. The media app also plays it without a problem. | 20:22 |
| urs | it is in ~/Music | 20:22 |
| Yaniel | ie not the music folder | 20:22 |
| tbr | how counter intuitive | 20:23 |
| urs | ah, where does it have to be? | 20:23 |
| urs | I have some .ogg files in ~/Documents that are being listed. | 20:23 |
| urs | but even if I move it there - no success. | 20:24 |
| urs | it's this file (the end-of-level sound from sonic the hedgehog 1): http://urs.nerd2nerd.org/sonic-duedelduet-pling.ogg | 20:26 |
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| Yaniel | what the heck | 20:37 |
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| Yaniel | jolla-gallery does not allow me to edit png files | 20:37 |
| Yaniel | jpg files are okay though | 20:38 |
| Yaniel | ...why | 20:38 |
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| Yaniel | I mean I'd /assume/ you use QImage for both reading and writing the images there | 20:42 |
| Yaniel | and afaik that supports both png and jpg perfectly fine | 20:43 |
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| coderus | hello! Please fix the most annoying gallery bug: http://i.imgur.com/YLukWZu.png | 20:47 |
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| coderus | https://together.jolla.com/question/77448/gallery-photo-scrolling-bug/ | 20:49 |
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| kimmoli | coderus: thansk for making me see that ... | 20:55 |
| kimmoli | actually i have used full-black wallpaper, so i havent noticed that | 20:55 |
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| coderus | and maybe i's reaslly good idea to separate homescreen wallpaper with apps wallpaper as it's done in android stella launcher? | 21:00 |
| kimmoli | is it? | 21:00 |
| coderus | yeah | 21:00 |
| kimmoli | iirc i found only one wallpaper from the apk | 21:01 |
| coderus | its ambienced contains homescreenWallpaper and applicationWallpaper | 21:02 |
| coderus | i think it's bad if i post it here, i can show you in private if you want | 21:02 |
| coderus | i disassembled most of stella launcher :D | 21:02 |
| kimmoli | if someone has LeTOH, and is interested to hack/tweak it, make own controls for leds etc. the applications can be found from my github, also small doc how to control leds | 21:05 |
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| coderus | i don't have letoh, but probably i should have one? is it so cool? | 21:05 |
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| coderus | ah no, it have no "ambilight" | 21:06 |
| coderus | just simple control... | 21:06 |
| kimmoli | yeah no "ambilight"... | 21:07 |
| kimmoli | would propably need to fork into lipstick to get real-time pixels from screen ? | 21:08 |
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| gogeta | guys | 21:08 |
| kimmoli | anyway somewhere deeper | 21:08 |
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| coderus | gogeta: man | 21:10 |
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| kimmoli | OTherhalf ringtone previews seems to be available in https://jolla.com/the-other-half | 21:22 |
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| coderus | kimmoli: yeah it was here always :) | 21:25 |
| kimmoli | never had time to scroll down-enough .. | 21:25 |
| r0kk3rz | hmm, is good idea to use invoker to start a qcoreapp daemon? | 21:25 |
| r0kk3rz | im only really just learning what its for | 21:25 |
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| kimmoli | coderus: was there way to set mime types to open them with certain app? | 21:48 |
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| coderus | r0kk3rz: sure | 21:48 |
| coderus | just use --type=qt5 | 21:49 |
| coderus | kimmoli: what? | 21:49 |
| kimmoli | e.g. xdg-open.. | 21:49 |
| coderus | kimmoli: just add mime types in desktop file | 21:49 |
| coderus | should work in any linux | 21:49 |
| kimmoli | should... | 21:49 |
| coderus | check RPM Installer | 21:50 |
| coderus | it changing rpm mime type association to itself | 21:50 |
| coderus | BasilSemuonov__: ^ | 21:50 |
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| kimmoli | meh, i'll continue some other day. tried to add it in _many_ different places without help.. | 21:52 |
| * kimmoli hides in pile of pillows | 21:52 | |
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| r0kk3rz | haha | 21:53 |
| r0kk3rz | coderus: ive set it to start as type qt, but it complains it cant connect to a socket then starts it as a normal application binary | 21:54 |
| BasilSemuonov__ | kimmoli, ~/.local/share/applications should exist, and you can register your app with xdg-mime default: https://github.com/custodian/harbour-rpminstaller/blob/master/src/harbour-rpminstaller.cpp#L15 | 21:54 |
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| kimmoli | BasilSemuonov__: thanks, will check | 21:56 |
| kimmoli | iirc i have tried with no luck, but'll recheck | 21:56 |
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| coderus | who is TomTomGalore? why he closing my TJC thread and fighting with me? o_O https://together.jolla.com/question/77448/gallery-photo-scrolling-bug/ | 22:30 |
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| keithzg | Huh, yeah that's random. but he seems to have been around for a while. | 22:31 |
| keithzg | More karma than me :( heh | 22:33 |
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| keithzg | Oh hey, I hadn't noticed my feature request for haptic feedback on the tablet was replied to with a form reply! | 22:34 |
| keithzg | "However, we will keep all suggestions, and might revisit this decision in the future if we see an opportunity to implement this feature-request in an upcoming product/SW release." | 22:34 |
| keithzg | Hmm, might be hard to add a motor for vibration in a software release, but hey, what do I know? ;) | 22:34 |
| M4rtinK | keithzg: maybe it does not even have a the vibration feedback thingie ? :) | 22:35 |
| M4rtinK | I kinda discounted the "Jolla picked up a random cheap Chinese OEM tablet" as rumors | 22:35 |
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| M4rtinK | but it seems to be more and more like the truth :) | 22:36 |
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| M4rtinK | considering that more or less all hardware requests were not accepted, even for trivial things like a status LED (!) | 22:36 |
| coderus | https://together.jolla.com/question/77500/please-change-opacity-effect-when-swiping-images-in-gallery/ | 22:36 |
| keithzg | M4rtinK: I'll be a bit sad if there's no vibration feedback, after briefly having a Nexus 9 and realizing how great that can be on a tablet . . . but yeah, if you're stuck with commodity hardware from random Chinese OEMs there's not much leeway. | 22:37 |
| M4rtinK | I guess we will see ho many more essential hardware features will be missing :) | 22:37 |
| M4rtinK | keithzg: and even that can fail as seen with Spark/Vivaldi/KDE tablet | 22:37 |
| M4rtinK | well #unlike Aaron Saigo & co Jolla actually has some experience with hardware :) | 22:38 |
| the_mgt | what's with all this nagging? they offered to deliver a tablet in about half a years time. they probably had everything hardware wise already layed out and there was little time for changes | 22:39 |
| keithzg | M4rtinK: Yeahhhh. We're moving into a place, tech-wise, where you have to navigate a very specific world of Chinese manufacturers to have any hope of shipping a mobile hardware product. | 22:39 |
| keithzg | the_mgt: Just the human need to speculate! | 22:39 |
| keithzg | Personally even if I get mine and it falls apart in the first week I'd be happy, since the OS will be adapted to tablets then and i can buy some other tablet and have a hope of repurposing it. | 22:40 |
| keithzg | My old Nexus 4 is *finally* living up to how nice its hardware is now that it's running SailfishOS :) | 22:40 |
| M4rtinK | the_mgt: then maybe don't use slogans stuff like "your say shapes the product" and "people powered" ? :) | 22:40 |
| M4rtinK | the_mgt: if the hardware is already set in stone ? ;-) | 22:40 |
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| keithzg | coderus: WTF. "it's god to that you improve you language" oh the irony, it burns! | 22:42 |
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| the_mgt | that's probably 75% marketing gibberish. the rest of the 25% is still more listening than most other companies do | 22:42 |
| * keithzg demans at leat 13% less marketing gibberish! ;) | 22:42 | |
| the_mgt | they wont make it pee rainbows just because lots of people ask for it | 22:43 |
| keithzg | s/demans/demands | 22:43 |
| M4rtinK | the_mgt: and they even (silently dropped the "everything | 22:43 |
| keithzg | All I wanted was vibration upon keypresses . . . | 22:43 |
| M4rtinK | is open" language ;-) | 22:43 |
| * keithzg sobs in the corner with his 8 upvotes :P | 22:43 | |
| coderus | keithzg: i hate TomTomGalore from now >:| | 22:45 |
| M4rtinK | coderus: "flag as offensive" ? :) | 22:46 |
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| coderus | well, it's my private war >:| | 22:53 |
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| Sail0r | http://thehackernews.com/2015/01/Whatsapp-banned-for-24-hours.html | 22:57 |
| keithzg | Open communication protocols, dead they be . . . | 22:59 |
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| * keithzg may be somewhat exaggerating, but they're certainly on their last legs for IM | 23:00 | |
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| keithzg | Weep, weep for the lost promise of Jabber! | 23:00 |
| pdanek | Hey guys, which distro do you consider more "clean", Fedora/RHEL or OpenSUSE/SLES? | 23:01 |
| keithzg | pdanek: Debian :P | 23:01 |
| pdanek | I ask you because obviosuly asking in #opensuse or #fedora makes no sense | 23:01 |
| pdanek | keithzg: I completely agree with you, although that isn't the choice of my question | 23:01 |
| keithzg | I think in many ways Fedora/RHEL follows upstream closer, but mostly because for many things they *are* the upstream. | 23:02 |
| Sail0r | I really like Fedora and Manjaro for desktop | 23:02 |
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| Sail0r | for servers i use centos | 23:02 |
| Sail0r | I think you have to test them and get your own opinion what floats your boat | 23:03 |
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| pdanek | Sail0r: CentOS 7 on desktop? Finally a stable version of Fedora, woohooo | 23:03 |
| keithzg | hehe | 23:03 |
| Sail0r | no centos 7 on servers ;) | 23:04 |
| pdanek | to soon to put cent7 on servers | 23:04 |
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| pdanek | I'd say | 23:04 |
| Sail0r | no problems so far | 23:04 |
| Sail0r | we have about 50 in test | 23:04 |
| pdanek | oh | 23:04 |
| pdanek | cool | 23:04 |
| Sail0r | but for many sysadmins it's hard to learn systemd and journalctl ;) | 23:04 |
| pdanek | Sail0r: why no CentOS 7 for desktop? | 23:05 |
| pdanek | What does it lack? | 23:05 |
| pdanek | I always had issues with Fedora | 23:05 |
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| Sail0r | last time I tried centos on desktop it lacked many fancy drivers for laptops | 23:05 |
| the_mgt | Sail0r: and there is so much more to hate. firewalld, being unable to install raid+lvm as in centos6... | 23:05 |
| pdanek | Am I wrong, or firewalld is just a temporary thing? | 23:06 |
| pdanek | I think someone mentioned there is gonna be change again | 23:06 |
| the_mgt | I hope they will take the time to slowly and painfully torture the inventor of firewalld to death | 23:07 |
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| keithzg | pdanek: To conclude what little I know, SUSE does tend to be more customized as it ships, *but* there's lots of OBS repos that provide up-to-date, unadulterated software. So as stock it's less "clean", but it's easier to install large swathes of "clean" software. | 23:07 |
| the_mgt | centos6 had a cups from last century or so, I wasn't able to get a 5 year old printer to work | 23:07 |
| keithzg | the_mgt: You still have *printers*? ;) | 23:08 |
| the_mgt | dunno how recent cups in centos7 is, but not being able to print is a major turn off for most desktop users | 23:08 |
| the_mgt | keithzg: my clients need their faxes printed... | 23:08 |
| chem|st | Sail0r: last time I setup my new laptop I had no sound no networking no dri no mouse no keyboard hotkeys... and that was debian testing... | 23:09 |
| keithzg | the_mgt: . . . oh my. | 23:09 |
| the_mgt | faxes arrive on a fritzbox, are read via samba from a vm, which executes a cron script to send them to a networked printer, keithzg | 23:09 |
| pdanek | keithzg: Considering number of contributions, SUSE is of father of KDE, and Fedora father of Gnome, can the conclusion be that Gnome is cleaner in SUSE and KDE is cleaner in Fedora? | 23:09 |
| chem|st | the_mgt: what else would you do nowadays? buy a FAX? | 23:10 |
| pdanek | because obviously Fedora focuses on Gnome a lot and changes shit? | 23:10 |
| pdanek | and SUSE to KDE | 23:10 |
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| the_mgt | chem|st: they have one. but then somebody would need to scan all the incoming faxes | 23:10 |
| pdanek | FAX?! | 23:10 |
| chem|st | pdanek: I am working XP at the office... don't ask! | 23:10 |
| the_mgt | architects. you wouldnt believe how resistent to change all those house builders are | 23:11 |
| pdanek | wow | 23:11 |
| the_mgt | I mean the plumbers, electricians, etc | 23:11 |
| pdanek | I didn't know faxes still function | 23:11 |
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| the_mgt | also, faxes are considered real documents. if you print out a form, fill it out and sign it, it will only be legit if you send it via fax. not scanned as email... | 23:12 |
| pdanek | right | 23:12 |
| keithzg | pdanek: Well, but Red Hat / Fedora's changes to Gnome become the new defaults, so in some senses they are always entirely "clean". KDE is a bit different since development of it is shared more equally around, and not so tightly controlled as Gnome is (if anyone tried to take away the ability to change terminal emulator color themes they wouldn't get very far in KDE!) | 23:13 |
| keithzg | the_mgt: Yeah, I've always found that insane. Like there's some magic fairy dust that gets sprinkled on a document when it's faxed. | 23:13 |
| the_mgt | keithzg: it is a sophisticated technical device, hard to tamper with and the output can't be forged! unlike emails... | 23:14 |
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| keithzg | the_mgt: Oh, you know, now that I think of it you're so right. It's so clear that the electronic transmissions through fax are involitile! And you can always be 100% sure of their authenticity, both of substance and of origin. Unlike that pesky email, which is mechanically different for . . . reasons ;) | 23:22 |
| * keithzg has never understood why lawyers especially have refused to go over to signed+encrypted emails, then consider email terribly insecure, all the while blindly trusting faxing . . . | 23:23 | |
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| M4rtinK | the_mgt: you can install LVM on RAID in CENTOS7/RHEL7 | 23:31 |
| pdanek | But does Gnome really have a bright future with GTK? | 23:32 |
| pdanek | Shouldn't Gnome just switch to QT at some point? :D | 23:32 |
| the_mgt | M4rtinK: but not as easy as in the centos6 installer | 23:32 |
| the_mgt | if you choose raid in centos7, you are done for, no additional stuff | 23:33 |
| M4rtinK | well, no :P | 23:33 |
| M4rtinK | you can have both RAID & normal partitions on top | 23:33 |
| M4rtinK | and RAID and LVM on top | 23:33 |
| the_mgt | not with the installer I used. at least not in an obvious way | 23:34 |
| M4rtinK | did you use the GUI, the TUI or automated install with kickstart ? | 23:34 |
| the_mgt | GUI | 23:34 |
| the_mgt | this postmodern, hipsteresque and very flat looking thing | 23:35 |
| the_mgt | I added the LVM manually. could have used Gentoo for that kind of comfort | 23:36 |
| M4rtinK | well, you at least no longer need to skip through a dozen useless screens :) | 23:36 |
| keithzg | Do you have the option of downloading and installing updates while you're running the installer yet? | 23:37 |
| the_mgt | yes, but at the same time, they improved the level of "suckyness" | 23:37 |
| M4rtinK | the_mgt: well, there is always the kickstart configuration format: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Kickstart#volgroup & co | 23:37 |
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| the_mgt | M4rtinK: now that is comfy and easy! ;) | 23:38 |
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| M4rtinK | keithzg: not sure about RHEL/Centos now, but I think the repo with updates in included when installing Fedora | 23:39 |
| M4rtinK | the_mgt: try to install 1000 machines without that :) | 23:39 |
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| keithzg | M4rtinK: So by the time you're done installing Fedora it's also already updated itself? 'Cause that's one of the things I've long loved about the Ubiquity installer. | 23:39 |
| M4rtinK | keithzg: yep, I think it is | 23:40 |
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| the_mgt | M4rtinK: yes, why care for the person that wants to install only one server. that's a ridiculously uncommon scenario | 23:40 |
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| keithzg | CentOS actually has upgrades these days, right? I remember back in the day, for CentOS/RHEL the suggestion was a full reinstall if you were upgrading across versions. It's mainly why one of the servers in my office is still on CentOS 5 :P | 23:41 |
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| M4rtinK | keithzg: well, the changes between versions are quite significant | 23:42 |
| M4rtinK | even just the default file system | 23:42 |
| the_mgt | the thing is, I install machines at places were I might not be the admin next year. And I aimed to install systems that run for a long time and are as vanilla as possible, so the next admin does not need to understand my quirks. That worked fine with centos6, but this centos7 machine is already a mess after one month | 23:42 |
| M4rtinK | EXT4 (6) -> XFS (7) | 23:42 |
| keithzg | M4rtinK: Not really an excuse, honestly. So what if the default file system changed? Do newer Red Hat versions not run on 'prior' filesystems? If so, it's a terribly fragile distro! But I doubt that's actually the case. | 23:43 |
| coderus | Just received Highscreen Alpha Rage 2 case i ordered for my Jolla. Here some pics: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n4scagn77so2tvs/AAB0gX2LD-JBezBxg1bUJM2Ha?dl=0 | 23:44 |
| keithzg | The main thing that design philosophy will accomplish is, whenever I'm finally forced to upgrade that old CentOS server, I'll be upgrading it to Debian :P | 23:44 |
| M4rtinK | keithzg: what I mean is that what you get after the upgrade won't be the same as a clean RHEL7/Centos 7 install | 23:44 |
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| the_mgt | keithzg: the benefit is, one major version will run for 5 years and will be rather stable for that period, with debian it is 3 years. and yes, you can distro-upgrade, but that might explode the third time, if you are unlucky | 23:44 |
| keithzg | M4rtinK: Nawww, I've been running a continual *Kubuntu* install since 2006, and even all the hardware has changed and a release upgrade has yet to break anything (other than occasionally the NVIDIA drivers, but those are closed source boxes of pain). | 23:46 |
| the_mgt | and I hate running behind debian upgrades | 23:46 |
| keithzg | the_mgt, I meant | 23:46 |
| M4rtinK | btw, 6->7 upgrades are possible: http://wiki.centos.org/TipsAndTricks/CentOSUpgradeTool | 23:46 |
| M4rtinK | and https://access.redhat.com/solutions/21964 | 23:46 |
| keithzg | M4rtinK: Aha, good good, I had heard some time ago they were planning on it. Doesn't help my CentOS 5 system, though. And I really do find it insane that the only way to upgrade was to either reinstall entirely, or random hacks people had worked out. | 23:47 |
| M4rtinK | but in my opinions clean install is still better :) | 23:47 |
| keithzg | In my opinion, clean install means you've fucked up the packaging process somewhere :P | 23:48 |
| M4rtinK | keithzg: it is really not easy - just check what all the preupgrade tool needs to do | 23:48 |
| M4rtinK | config formats changing, init system changing, path changes, etc. | 23:49 |
| the_mgt | on servers, it is just the configs and data to move, so a reinstall is easier than migrating windows users from one computer to another | 23:49 |
| keithzg | M4rtinK: I'm definitely not saying it's trivial, I'm just saying that in my experience *buntu has it solved, and it's precisely for solving such things for me that I use distros instead of Linux From Scratch, or Gentoo ;) | 23:49 |
| keithzg | the_mgt: but if it's just the configs and data to move, why can't the upgrade be as quick and automatic? | 23:50 |
| M4rtinK | clean install means you are able to reconstruct the server configuration is needed :) | 23:50 |
| the_mgt | the first time I needed to reinstall Gentoo was when I moved from 32bit to 64bit, after 8 years | 23:50 |
| keithzg | I prefer to keep my server configs as clean and known as possible anyways! | 23:50 |
| keithzg | Plus with VMs (which most of our core services are run as) you can just incrementally snapshot/revert/etc as long as it's a continual install. | 23:50 |
| M4rtinK | keithzg: even easier & less resource intensive with Docker and co nowadays | 23:51 |
| the_mgt | anyway, I have to go to bed now. good night | 23:51 |
| keithzg | the_mgt: g'night | 23:51 |
| M4rtinK | night :) | 23:51 |
| keithzg | M4rtinK: I've been tempted by Docker/LXC, most of the setups we have at my work end up being just a *bit* too complex for easily setup with that, though, and it's super simple to just bootstrap a VM and then act as if it's a server, *that* I'm already extremely comfortable with. So I've never been driven to actually learn containers, as much as I glance at them sidelong, heh. | 23:53 |
| M4rtinK | keithzg: I think they are still not as mature as VMs | 23:54 |
| M4rtinK | keithzg: but definitely have some nice features | 23:54 |
| M4rtinK | also, this is kinda relevant when talking about updates & containers: | 23:55 |
| M4rtinK | http://community.redhat.com/blog/2014/12/fedora-21-fedora-goes-atomic/ | 23:55 |
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| M4rtinK | this is basically a single purpose Fedora based OS for container hosting | 23:55 |
| M4rtinK | ant it supports atomic updates :) | 23:56 |
| M4rtinK | so you can have like 1000 of them, each hosting tons of containers | 23:56 |
| keithzg | Huh, interesting. And atomic updates makes me feel much safer, considering all the times I've found myself trapped in RPM hell, heh | 23:57 |
| M4rtinK | its not just broken dependencies | 23:57 |
| M4rtinK | machine loosing power midways during a transaction | 23:57 |
| M4rtinK | etc. | 23:58 |
| keithzg | Hey, some of the times I've gotten into RPM hell have indeed been that too (back when I had Fedora on a netbook). | 23:58 |
| M4rtinK | not that much of an issue with a single machine, but much more probably once you have a lot of them | 23:58 |
| M4rtinK | and there are just so many states it can end in afterwards | 23:59 |
| keithzg | Oh, it's a HUGE issue with random single machines at my work, our electrical system is nightmare-inducing :P | 23:59 |
| pdanek | hmm, when I leave my camera light on for long time | 23:59 |
| pdanek | Jolla gets VERY hot | 23:59 |
| M4rtinK | with atomic updates you basically compose an update commit locally, test it works | 23:59 |
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