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| Yaniel | iekku: the user guide on jolla.com has the old page indicators in the illustrations | 06:32 |
|---|---|---|
| Yaniel | this should be fixed | 06:32 |
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| iekku | Yaniel, +1 our designers have that as a task, hopefully done during this iteration | 06:35 |
| iekku | Yaniel, thank <3 | 06:35 |
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| iekku | ah, you were talking about user guide, not design guidelines | 06:36 |
| * iekku goes to check if we have task for that | 06:36 | |
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| temmi_moo | i'm needing more coffee | 06:37 |
| * iekku too | 06:37 | |
| Yaniel | just noticed as someone #elsewhere linked to it | 06:38 |
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| sebsebseb | whoops I could have briefly told quite a few people about Jolla yesterday, but then didn't, just straight into the usaul thing that was doing | 07:24 |
| sebsebseb | oh well I guess, what's done is done :d | 07:24 |
| * sebsebseb will show certain people Jolla phone next month anyway, once set up properly etc | 07:25 | |
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| Sail0r | hui nice | 13:10 |
| Sail0r | * research SELinux as a solution for system security and application access control | 13:10 |
| Stskeeps | https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2015-January/005512.html | 13:11 |
| Sail0r | yeah am currently reading it | 13:12 |
| Sail0r | this is also nice In the spirit of supporting the community TOHkbd project, we have also implemented keyboard slide policy that will guide the display (un)blanking behaviour when sliding the hardware keyboard in/out. | 13:12 |
| Sail0r | thx Jolla :) | 13:12 |
| Sail0r | many cool things | 13:12 |
| chem|st | so...Jolla Tablet will have no nfc, no usb3.1, no video out, no TOH possibilities | 13:13 |
| chem|st | oh no kbd-case | 13:13 |
| pettter | is there any update on more features in the messaging system? | 13:13 |
| pettter | in particular, OTR, MUC, File transfer | 13:13 |
| chem|st | no | 13:13 |
| pettter | as in no update, or as in not planned? | 13:14 |
| chem|st | no update and not planned yet | 13:14 |
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| pettter | will it ever turn up? | 13:15 |
| chem|st | BUT you can help to get them there, those parts are foss | 13:15 |
| pettter | I wish I had the time to do so | 13:15 |
| chem|st | pettter: if 'ever' is actually 'ever', there might be another technology on the market before it gets implemented... | 13:16 |
| pettter | I find that unlikely, but sure | 13:16 |
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| pettter | it is somewhat discouraging, though, that for OTR, the changes in telepathy are already there, and the indication in the together.jolla.com question was that getting the GUI glue in there would be "minimal" | 13:18 |
| pettter | ...and that was over six months ago | 13:19 |
| pettter | (or three, depending on how you count) | 13:19 |
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| chem|st | pettter: Jolla is not interested in being a software company, they like to make hardware now | 13:20 |
| chem|st | or make nihilist hardware^^ | 13:20 |
| Stskeeps | what? | 13:20 |
| pettter | if they wanted to do hardware they could've gone for android :P | 13:20 |
| chem|st | pettter: I am just jocking after I read the bits what hardware/features will not be considered for the tablet | 13:23 |
| chem|st | pettter: but they missed the secure messaging train - and security for now completely | 13:24 |
| pettter | they can still get there | 13:24 |
| chem|st | seems like android can read all my files now... | 13:25 |
| pettter | it requires an effort though | 13:25 |
| warfare | Where do I file feature requests against caldav? together.jolla.com? | 13:25 |
| chem|st | I would skip all that android compatibility, it slows down development | 13:25 |
| chem|st | warfare: yes | 13:25 |
| pettter | chem|st: it's beos vs. windows all over again | 13:25 |
| Sail0r | but if they skip android many people won't buy a jolla at all | 13:26 |
| Stskeeps | chem|st: why exactly would it slow down development when jolla development team doesn't work on it | 13:26 |
| Sail0r | warfare: there are many requests for caldav already search them first | 13:26 |
| Stskeeps | ? | 13:26 |
| warfare | Sail0r: already have :) | 13:27 |
| pettter | https://together.jolla.com/questions/scope:all/sort:activity-desc/page:1/query:caldav/ | 13:27 |
| chem|st | Sail0r: the effort that has gone in android compatibility could have been spent for apps replacing what was or is needed from android - the sad truth is if you are no hardware manufacturer your own you are fried fish for android hardware as no manufacturer will have drivers for your exotic needs | 13:28 |
| Sail0r | I think most of the android compatibilty is not done by jolla themself or is it? | 13:28 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: it slows the ecosystem, not jolla | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | then don't say it slows down development :) | 13:29 |
| Sail0r | as long as the store does not support paying for apps it will always be slow I think | 13:29 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: does Jolla pay for android devel? | 13:29 |
| Stskeeps | of course, but that's built into the price of the device and a leading reason why people buy the device in the first place. without that, there wouldn't be enough money to even look at development. | 13:30 |
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| Sail0r | http://www.myriadgroup.com/press/news/myriad-powers-android-apps-on-first-jolla-smartphone/ | 13:31 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: I know, that is the sad thing... | 13:32 |
| Stskeeps | it doesn't cause slowness in any way, instead, it increases | 13:32 |
| Stskeeps | speed | 13:33 |
| Sail0r | First I didn't like the idea of android on sailfish | 13:35 |
| Sail0r | but this way it's the only way we got Jollas from our company for work | 13:35 |
| Sail0r | because we can even run the apps we need for work | 13:35 |
| faenil | Sail0r, sometimes you just have to accept that for jolla to survive it needs a few compromises | 13:35 |
| faenil | having an android runtime is one of those, for the time being, imho | 13:35 |
| chem|st | true | 13:35 |
| Sail0r | that's what I say ;) | 13:35 |
| faenil | we just have to accept, if we want to see jolla growing, that's it | 13:35 |
| faenil | :) | 13:36 |
| Sail0r | If Jolla hadn't Android support I wouldn't get one from my company | 13:36 |
| TemeV | one thing I dont' like in open source communities is these "please don't waste time on <add your choise here> because I don't need that" | 13:36 |
| Sail0r | that's not only open source ;) | 13:36 |
| tadzik | it's people | 13:37 |
| Sail0r | it's every part of human live ;) | 13:37 |
| TemeV | yeah, true | 13:37 |
| Sail0r | some say "don't build cars, because I don't need them I have a train" | 13:37 |
| TemeV | but it is kind of ok, when you are paying for the product | 13:37 |
| faenil | Sail0r, sorry, I meant to highlight chem|st ;) | 13:38 |
| Sail0r | ah ;) | 13:38 |
| TemeV | actually, ignore my last post | 13:38 |
| TemeV | it doesn't make sense | 13:38 |
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| chem|st | Stskeeps: so the meeting had it, no TOH for the tab, not even external connectors... | 13:40 |
| Stskeeps | otoh USB OTG seems to work pretty nicely | 13:40 |
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| faenil | great! any spoiler on what we can do with *that* otg? | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | blog post in progress, afaik | 13:41 |
| faenil | cool | 13:41 |
| chem|st | with by the time getting obsolete usb2 port | 13:41 |
| chem|st | but yes cool ;) | 13:41 |
| Sail0r | usb2 obsolet? | 13:42 |
| Sail0r | I don't have any single device which does support usb 3 :x except my macbook and my desktop but no plugable | 13:43 |
| chem|st | Sail0r: the usb3.1c connector is about to hit the markets, I am not about usb3 vs usb2 but the c connector will change things | 13:43 |
| Sail0r | ah k sorry misunderstood | 13:44 |
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| chem|st | and planned is microUSB2-B just like the phone | 13:45 |
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| Sail0r | k that's strange | 13:46 |
| Sail0r | but the tablet was planned before usb 3.1c made it to the markets | 13:46 |
| Sail0r | so you always get old fashioned things as "new" because there is a planning phase | 13:46 |
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| chem|st | Sail0r: 3.1c is final for some time now, and that it will hit start of 2015 was said too | 13:48 |
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| Sail0r | but companies also ship android 4.2 :x | 13:49 |
| pettter | chem|st: so if I want to fix the UI glue for OTR, where do I find the stuff to develop that? | 13:49 |
| chem|st | pettter: uh the messaging ui is not open afaik, so that is indeed jolla.... | 13:50 |
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| chem|st | pettter: better check if otr really works properly, a proof of concept shown to jolla usually helps at that end | 13:51 |
| pettter | http://blog.davidedmundson.co.uk/blog/ktp_0.9 | 13:52 |
| tbr | pettter: a very good target to show something works is to use nemomobile, as that has only open source implementations. | 13:53 |
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| tbr | pettter: we did the same with SIP and the dialer, as sailfish dialer is closed, we used the nemo dialer to show that it works. | 13:54 |
| pettter | tbr: and will that be getting into sailfish? | 13:54 |
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| tbr | pettter: if you show it on nemo, then it's a very convincing argument / proof of concept to bring it to the sailfish side. As only the UI differs | 14:04 |
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| pettter | let me put it this way: are there concrete examples of this actually working? | 14:06 |
| pettter | I likely won't have time to do it either way | 14:06 |
| tbr | yes, we've done it with SIP and it helped to make the case | 14:07 |
| pettter | when? | 14:08 |
| locusf | sometime in december afaik | 14:08 |
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| tbr | locusf: do you happen to know if the nemo messaging ui uses the same storage? or can be made to? Then it could even be a starting point to work on a replacement messaging UI. | 14:10 |
| tbr | as Jolla has shown zero movement on our petitioning for messaging UI open sourcing / fixes, as opposed to SIP, where there was a vague promise | 14:10 |
| locusf | tbr: haven't looked at messaging in either Jolla or nemo yet, will take a look now | 14:10 |
| * tbr bows, thank you! | 14:11 | |
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| locusf | tbr: a quick look pertains a yes as an answer | 14:17 |
| tbr | sounds interesting then. :) | 14:17 |
| tbr | locusf: I guess it can be made to run on sailfish too, probably simple QML so not even need to pull in glacier? | 14:18 |
| * tbr goes to look for the package :) | 14:18 | |
| locusf | tbr: yes it can | 14:18 |
| locusf | tbr: https://github.com/nemomobile/qmlmessages | 14:18 |
| tbr | tnx! | 14:18 |
| * tbr goes to check obs for packages | 14:18 | |
| locusf | https://build.merproject.org/package/show/nemo:devel:apps/qmlmessages | 14:18 |
| TemeV | so that could be used e.g. for group chats with telepathy? | 14:19 |
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| locusf | I suppose no one has tried group chats yet | 14:19 |
| tbr | https://build.merproject.org/package/show/nemo:testing:apps/qmlmessages | 14:19 |
| tbr | :) | 14:19 |
| tbr | TemeV: it /should/ work. ISTR on harmattan there was a hidden half broken implementation already, no idea if qmlmessages would need much work. | 14:20 |
| tbr | but it's open source, so the community can fix it :) | 14:20 |
| locusf | it has an account selector, so if that telepathy plugin provides an account it could work with qmlmessages | 14:22 |
| Stskeeps | grass is always greener on the other side: https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=82949 | 14:22 |
| Stskeeps | (not related to current conversation) | 14:22 |
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| tbr | Stskeeps: I "love" the ticket resolution... | 14:24 |
| locusf | tbr: you do need to pull in qt-components | 14:24 |
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| tbr | locusf: yeah, just noticed that it freaks out with missing stuff after just a copypac | 14:25 |
| TemeV | tbr: I would be intereted on testing it atleast. I wish I had the time for fixing also :) | 14:25 |
| tbr | locusf: hmm, why does it complain about qt 4.7 being missing? | 14:26 |
| locusf | tbr: use :devel:apps | 14:26 |
| tbr | k, trying | 14:27 |
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| tbr | it's building \o/ https://build.merproject.org/package/live_build_log/home:tbr:sailfish/qmlmessages/latest_armv7hl/armv8el | 14:28 |
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| tbr | aand built :) | 14:29 |
| Stskeeps | nothing more fun than git rebase on an android tree | 14:29 |
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| tbr | hmm, misses qmlcontacts | 14:32 |
| * tbr goes to build :) | 14:32 | |
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| Tofe | quit | 14:41 |
| tbr | hrm, now it's missing nemo-qml-plugin-folderlistmodel | 14:42 |
| Tofe | oops, sry | 14:42 |
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| TemeV | tbr: and soon you have the whole glacier ui installed? :) | 14:44 |
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| tbr | TemeV: mhhh, I'm afraid of something like that... | 14:45 |
| tbr | let's see | 14:45 |
| tbr | next: qmlfilemuncher | 14:45 |
| locusf | whaa | 14:45 |
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| tbr | nothing provides qmlgallery needed by qmlcontacts | 14:57 |
| locusf | :) | 14:58 |
| tbr | this starts to be a bit bothersome... | 14:58 |
| locusf | just add the devel:apps repo and be happy :) | 14:58 |
| tbr | are they binary compatible? | 14:58 |
| locusf | they are | 14:58 |
| locusf | hmm | 14:58 |
| locusf | in the context of Jolla I'm not too sure :p | 14:58 |
| tbr | ok, more rebuilding then :) | 14:59 |
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| tbr | Fatal error: jolla-messages-0.4.31.3-10.44.1.jolla.armv7hl obsoletes qmlmessages provided by qmlmessages-0.2.3-10.1.1.jolla.armv7hl | 15:11 |
| tbr | now, do I dare? | 15:11 |
| javispedro | hi hello | 15:11 |
| locusf | you can always reinstall :) | 15:11 |
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| tbr | locusf: ok, it starts and shows the messages! \o/ | 15:15 |
| tbr | locusf: but I can't open conversations and pressing + to create a new message fails too | 15:16 |
| locusf | tbr: excellent :) | 15:16 |
| locusf | ah :/ | 15:16 |
| locusf | anything in journal? | 15:16 |
| tbr | qrc:/qml/AccountSelector.qml:53 Type SelectionDialog unavailable | 15:16 |
| tbr | missing undeclared dependency? | 15:17 |
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| tbr | locusf: http://pastebin.com/0Emeps6z - full log | 15:19 |
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| locusf | tbr: taking a look at the last error, it seems that you need to patch that file | 15:20 |
| locusf | /usr/lib/qt5/qml/com/nokia/meego/Dialog.qml | 15:20 |
| locusf | line 105 | 15:20 |
| tbr | ok, let me just edit the file on device | 15:20 |
| tbr | "backgroundRect = 0.0;"? | 15:21 |
| locusf | yep just remove it | 15:21 |
| locusf | I fixed the wrong branch earlier so the change didn't propagate to all the apps | 15:21 |
| tbr | awesomesauce, it works! | 15:22 |
| tbr | nice and shmooov, I'd say this can work as a replacement and prototyping area. | 15:23 |
| tbr | benefit: we get improvements into nemo | 15:23 |
| locusf | downside: glacier sees less attention | 15:24 |
| locusf | unless we start again with new app as I did with the dialer | 15:24 |
| tbr | glacier builds for sailfish... | 15:26 |
| locusf | yeah but the apps are qt-components | 15:26 |
| tbr | ok, so the app would need a rewrite | 15:26 |
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| locusf | jep | 15:28 |
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| locusf | it appears that Jolla stopped working on qt-components a year ago | 15:33 |
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| Sail0r | yay now I can see the unsupported emojis :x | 15:36 |
| Sail0r | because pebble does display them correctly | 15:36 |
| Sail0r | but not jolla :x | 15:36 |
| locusf | ah it seems qt-components-qt5 is only updated on mer-core:devel | 15:37 |
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| tbr | https://twitter.com/tbr23/status/556116931317886976 | 15:54 |
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| Stskeeps | warsaw police: finds a woman's leg in the river, sends it for dna testing. turns out it's a prosthesis. took 8 days to figure that out. | 15:58 |
| faenil | tbr, what is the performance like? | 15:58 |
| faenil | Stskeeps, lol | 15:58 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: ROFL | 15:59 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: http://warszawa.gazeta.pl/warszawa/1,34862,17266968.html#MTstream | 15:59 |
| tbr | faenil: really nice, only problem I saw so far is the black stripe if OSK is showing | 15:59 |
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| faenil | tbr, mmm I wonder if that's actually the place where the toolbar should ne | 16:00 |
| faenil | be | 16:00 |
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| faenil | mm no, PageHeader | 16:02 |
| faenil | tbr, is the black stripe visible when kbd is closed? | 16:04 |
| faenil | (guess not) | 16:04 |
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| tbr | faenil: nope | 16:04 |
| tbr | faenil: you can just add my obs repo and try :) | 16:05 |
| tbr | http://repo.merproject.org/obs/home:/tbr:/sailfish/latest_armv7hl/ | 16:05 |
| faenil | I'll probably do it later this evening ;) thanks | 16:05 |
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| FiXion | jolla (after updating) deleted my email account :( | 16:46 |
| FiXion | trying to add it - it fails | 16:47 |
| FiXion | how can I find out why it fails? | 16:47 |
| FiXion | any log on the phone to get details from? | 16:47 |
| tbr | FiXion: enable developer mode, then in settings/developer enable ssh | 16:48 |
| tbr | once on the device journalctl is your friend | 16:48 |
| FiXion | when did they switch to systemd ? | 16:49 |
| faenil | it's always been systemd-based | 16:50 |
| FiXion | I did look close enough then :) | 16:51 |
| FiXion | I didn't | 16:51 |
| FiXion | the username is nemo right? (for ssh) | 16:52 |
| faenil | :) | 16:52 |
| faenil | yes | 16:52 |
| faenil | devel-su to get su rights | 16:52 |
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| FiXion | gr8. it died with some oops msg. log output looks odd: http://pastie.org/9835553 | 16:54 |
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| faenil | try asking VDVsx though it's weekend *now* :D | 16:56 |
| FiXion | didn't try enough times appearently | 16:57 |
| FiXion | third time it worked | 16:57 |
| FiXion | odd | 16:57 |
| FiXion | annoyed that it removed the account in the first place though :( | 16:58 |
| FiXion | never happened before.. had it for over a year.. | 16:58 |
| FiXion | ohh well | 16:58 |
| lachs0r | did btrfs run out of space maybe? | 16:59 |
| FiXion | 86% filled currently | 16:59 |
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| lachs0r | check with the btrfs tools, not df or the display in the settings app | 16:59 |
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| FiXion | thank you for the hints.. | 16:59 |
| FiXion | lachs0r: how do I check with btrfs tools? | 16:59 |
| lachs0r | sec | 17:00 |
| faenil | btrfs fi show | 17:00 |
| lachs0r | right | 17:00 |
| FiXion | lachs0r: looks like it - http://pastie.org/9835566 | 17:00 |
| lachs0r | it happened to me a while ago and it was nasty enough that I couldn’t do anything at all with the fs (unable to remove files, unable to truncate them to 0 bytes to free up space for metadata…) | 17:00 |
| FiXion | how do I fix that.. | 17:00 |
| lachs0r | if you can still delete files, do that | 17:01 |
| FiXion | I don't think I have files on it.. | 17:01 |
| FiXion | not that many apps either | 17:01 |
| lachs0r | btrfs balance should help, right? | 17:01 |
| lachs0r | (not sure atm) | 17:01 |
| lachs0r | if it weren’t for my fear of breaking everything badly, I wouldn’t hesitate a second to move my device to a different fs (most likely an lvm + xfs setup) | 17:03 |
| lachs0r | btrfs was a really poor choice | 17:03 |
| FiXion | I removed an old backup | 17:03 |
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| FiXion | down to 8gb of 13gb used | 17:03 |
| FiXion | should be fine | 17:03 |
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| lachs0r | if you run into this again and can’t do anything, do not reboot the phone (it’s very likely to brick) | 17:05 |
| faenil | lachs0r, I read btrfs is quite stable now, but the version in jolla's kernel is ancient,with a few patches on top, afaik | 17:05 |
| lachs0r | faenil: stable doesn’t mean the design isn’t fundamentally unsuitable for small storage | 17:06 |
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| faenil | hehe | 17:06 |
| * FiXion hopes his phone stops deleting his accounts :) | 17:07 | |
| FiXion | it's also been crashing the messages app several times since the last update | 17:07 |
| FiXion | have to reboot phone to fix it | 17:07 |
| lachs0r | probably related | 17:07 |
| FiXion | how do I interpret this : http://pastie.org/9835566 | 17:08 |
| lachs0r | if btrfs breaks and nothing helps, try creating a file in /tmp (which is mounted with tmpfs, i.e. in RAM) with dd; 512 MB should be enough. then use losetup to create a loop device for it and add that to btrfs. you should then be able to delete files and snapshots to free up space. if you start getting errors again, remove the device, recreate the file and re-add it | 17:08 |
| FiXion | is 11gb used out of 13.751 gb used | 17:08 |
| FiXion | or ? | 17:08 |
| lachs0r | after that balance btrfs, remove the device from btrfs, detach the device and delete the file | 17:09 |
| * FiXion hopes to avoid learning btrfs details like that.. :) it's dirt simple with lvm :) | 17:09 | |
| FiXion | also found an interesting bug if someone calls you at the exact moment you call them | 17:10 |
| FiXion | phone app crashed | 17:10 |
| lachs0r | btrfs gets really ugly when it runs out of metadata space… which can happen anytime as the fs ages | 17:10 |
| FiXion | the call was appearently "received in the background" :) | 17:10 |
| FiXion | I'll go eat.. have a nice weekend all :) | 17:10 |
| lachs0r | they may run balance automatically in newer versions, but in my eyes the fs is still fundamentally flawed | 17:11 |
| FiXion | phone also deleted my jolla account | 17:11 |
| FiXion | where do I find that | 17:11 |
| FiXion | I have a jollatides account and an shop jolla account | 17:12 |
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| stephg | FiXion: the Jolla store account is the same credentials | 17:21 |
| stephg | (I think) | 17:21 |
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| tbr | FiXion: jolla shop uses a different account than the device. tides is completely different | 17:43 |
| stephg | tbr: I thought they were the same SSO tho? | 17:44 |
| * stephg doesn't remember | 17:45 | |
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| tbr | stephg: jolla store is the exception somehow | 17:50 |
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| kimmoli | harbour uses same account as on phone | 18:06 |
| kimmoli | if your store == jolla shop | 18:06 |
| kimmoli | https://account.jolla.com/ there is reset password option | 18:07 |
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| sec | whois sach | 18:21 |
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| coderus | Lockscreen player patch for #SailfishOS updated to v0.0.5 gets gestures tracks control https://openrepos.net/content/coderus/patch-lockscreen-mediaplayer-controls | 18:35 |
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| tadzik | ooh, nice! | 18:41 |
| coderus | it was a nice challenge :) | 18:43 |
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| chem|st | coderus: grats! nice effort! | 19:02 |
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| chem|st | coderus: I don't know how the glance screen sources its items but the mediacontrol is not shown nor current track - meant to be? | 19:18 |
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| chem|st | has anyone managed to break his/her display frame? (the plastic 2mm frame housing the glass) | 19:20 |
| coderus | chem|st: no idea, i never used glance on jolla :) | 19:20 |
| coderus | chem|st: mine have many scratches | 19:21 |
| coderus | but not break :) | 19:21 |
| chem|st | mine is broken on several locations, no idea how that happened | 19:22 |
| chem|st | you barely see it but in the right light condition and when you follow the sides with your fingernail you can feel it | 19:22 |
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| temmi_moo | jarbarkar | 21:22 |
| temmi_moo | so i'm tied to otaniementie until sunday afternoon | 21:23 |
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| Nicd- | yay next update notes: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2015-January/005512.html | 22:53 |
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