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| japa-fi | how do I install amazon appstore? I've downloaded the app with browser and it's visible in "transfers". Just that I can't do anything with the downloaded file. ie. can't click "install" | 05:04 |
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| TemeV | for me just clicking it starts the install | 06:13 |
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| japa-fi | restarted phone, redownloaded. clicked, installed ok | 06:36 |
| japa-fi | I've read about the loss of privacy with android apps. Ie. they collect crap load of unnecessary information. Why does sonos (a media player controller) need information on my location? | 06:38 |
| TemeV | that is a good question indeed :) | 06:38 |
| TemeV | maybe it wants to tag where you have listened some song? | 06:39 |
| TemeV | so it can suggest "last time you were here, you listened to this" | 06:39 |
| TemeV | :) | 06:39 |
| japa-fi | Yeah, you are propably right. | 06:39 |
| japa-fi | Except the sonos is physical device attached to stereos, so it pretty much stays at the same place. :) | 06:40 |
| TemeV | i wasn't serious of course... | 06:40 |
| TemeV | but yeah, android apps seem to need peculiar rights | 06:41 |
| TemeV | I wish there was similar system on Jolla | 06:41 |
| TemeV | So we could see if Sailfish apps are any better :) | 06:41 |
| japa-fi | How can I quicly see which wlan AP I'm connected to? | 06:43 |
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| TemeV | settings->system->wlan | 06:43 |
| TemeV | I don't new if there is easier way | 06:44 |
| japa-fi | Ok, that's what I used too. Thought there would be a shorter way | 06:44 |
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| TemeV | I don't think so | 06:48 |
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| japa-fi | Still haven't figured how to control which 4 applications are displayed at the bottom of the main display with running apps. Tried adding email as favorite app, no effect. Funny though, it doesn't allow me to add other apps.. | 07:12 |
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| TemeV | japa-fi: just drag what you want in there | 07:30 |
| TemeV | long press and drag | 07:31 |
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| japa-fi | wow, that simple | 07:31 |
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| japa-fi | will it uninstall the app if I press the x under the app icon? | 07:34 |
| TemeV | yep | 07:34 |
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| Morpog_PC | japa-fi you can add the wlan menu to settings shortcuts | 07:55 |
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| Nicd- | japa-fi: judging by your nick you might be interested in #jollasuomi :) | 07:59 |
| japa-fi | Nah, would be too easy to communicate with my native language :) | 08:00 |
| japa-fi | btw. I can't access jollastore. Just keeps updating and updating. Just me or something wrong with the store? | 08:01 |
| Morpog_PC | works here | 08:01 |
| Morpog_PC | are you on latest update? | 08:02 |
| Nicd- | works here too | 08:02 |
| stephg | your internet works and your clock is correct? | 08:04 |
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| lainwir3d | hi | 08:20 |
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| japa-fi | perhaps I'll just restart the phone. (yes, network works, same one that I'm on now as I chat) | 08:33 |
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| ccha2 | hello, do you know if is it possible to merge phone call and sip call ? | 09:06 |
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| SK_work | ccha2: there were lengthy discussions | 09:10 |
| SK_work | forgot why it cannot be done | 09:10 |
| SK_work | check in TJC | 09:10 |
| Toxip | it's something that's not very high in priority list | 09:17 |
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| Toxip | some of it is already there and it's possible to do a sip call from command line but "What is currently missing is the accounts glue between telepathy-rakia and the dialer" | 09:19 |
| Toxip | https://together.jolla.com/question/415/sip-voip-native-integration/ | 09:19 |
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| coderus | RavenholmDX: i'm lucky not paranoid, i have devmode enabled always | 09:32 |
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| chris__ | Hi@all | 09:51 |
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| mornfall | is the google IM stuff based on XMPP or some fancy hangouts API? | 09:57 |
| ggabriel | mornfall: it supports xmpp | 09:57 |
| ggabriel | ish though, they keep breaking it | 09:57 |
| mornfall | ggabriel: I mean in jolla/telepathy | 09:58 |
| mornfall | I'm asking because I added a non-google XMPP account and so far it's *much* more stable than google | 09:58 |
| ggabriel | i have no idea, sorry | 09:58 |
| mornfall | and also, google is cutting off xmpp by the end of the year, most likely | 09:58 |
| ggabriel | i set up xmpp always | 09:58 |
| ggabriel | yeah, at which point i guess i'll stop using it... | 09:59 |
| mornfall | yup | 09:59 |
| chris__ | i have a problem... yesterday i install Glacier homescreen, but i dont start it or anything, after installing i do deinstall. i Reboot the phone and now the phone doenst start. i connect my phone in recovery-tool mode with my pc. i read that if i use Option 5 , there will brick my phone.... i dont know, but i push the 5 :D , but phone is still ok. i use than Option 1 for factory reset. Phone is booting normaly, i upd | 09:59 |
| chris__ | ate 2 updates (1.0.25 + 1.1.x.x). But i feeling, that the phone is not really good working. | 09:59 |
| mornfall | either way, the IM instability on jolla seems to be some bad interaction with google's xmpp bridge, if that's what it uses (or buggy hangouts-api interface in telepathy, if such a thing even exists) | 10:00 |
| chris__ | xmpp doenst connect any more. i cant install right google services. cant install downloaded apk file (android support is installed) | 10:00 |
| locusf | chris__: did you read the blog post on the openrepos page? | 10:01 |
| locusf | chris__: you should have reinstalled lipstick-jolla-home-qt5 package after uninstalling glacier homescreen | 10:01 |
| chris__ | good, i dont do that. But now i re install all new. is it not good enough | 10:02 |
| chris__ | ? | 10:02 |
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| locusf | chris__: if you do a factory reset then it will work again | 10:03 |
| chris__ | yeah but it dont do | 10:03 |
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| locusf | chris__: its the only way now since you cannot activate developer mode on the device as it has no visual way for you to select it | 10:05 |
| chris__ | i install coderus icq plugin .... but cant open the wizzard to creat a account... xmpp ist not connecting to my server... cant install right google services (for Playstore). | 10:05 |
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| chem|st | chris__: what OS version are you at? | 10:07 |
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| chem|st | the latest from the sound of it, xmpp actually connects but the UI hangs, try to go away before you go online | 10:09 |
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| chris__ | i am on 1.1.0.39 | 10:11 |
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| chem|st | it is in the release notes that xmpp fails to update the gui (ran into that too) | 10:12 |
| chris__ | if i creat the xmpp account i dont get any informations about ssl cert | 10:12 |
| chem|st | for gPlay, what gapps version are you trying to install? | 10:12 |
| chris__ | and there is no way with xmpp? | 10:13 |
| chem|st | that is normal too, I don't get it either | 10:13 |
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| chem|st | chris__: set it to away instead of online and then set it to online | 10:13 |
| chris__ | i try it, but not work... but i will try again | 10:14 |
| chem|st | I need to set "ignore ssl errors" in accounts though | 10:14 |
| chem|st | ah and you MUST NOT alter the default settings for xmpp, anything but default settings fails miserably | 10:15 |
| chem|st | not even priority | 10:15 |
| chem|st | no idea why, but as soon as I touch the settings it fails to connect | 10:15 |
| chris__ | i try with ignore ssl errors too | 10:16 |
| chris__ | default? | 10:16 |
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| chris__ | you mean change the prio ? | 10:16 |
| chem|st | chris__: for gplay, you need to install an "old" gapps, if you try a current it will fail afaik | 10:16 |
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| chris__ | i use the old files, this have working before | 10:17 |
| chem|st | chris__: don't cahnge anything but the ssl, so in words, delete your account, create a new one while connected to interne, setup credentials, leave everything untouched but the ssl checkbox | 10:17 |
| chris__ | but i use only this: Phonesky.apk GoogleLoginService.apk GoogleServicesFramework.apk | 10:18 |
| chem|st | hmm, strange | 10:18 |
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| chem|st | no idea, I installed JB files and it worked | 10:18 |
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| chris__ | i will try with google later.. for me is xmpp importend | 10:20 |
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| coderus | you can just remove aliendalvik | 10:21 |
| coderus | delete /opt/alien folder | 10:21 |
| coderus | install aliendalvik | 10:21 |
| coderus | and copy Phonesky.apk GoogleLoginService.apk GoogleServicesFramework.apk and then install Phonesky.apk | 10:22 |
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| Toxip | at this rate we wont hit the 1 750 000 stretch goal :/ | 10:32 |
| ilpianista | :-( | 10:32 |
| ilpianista | (that's the coolest one IMHO) | 10:32 |
| stephg | ditto | 10:33 |
| Toxip | my estimate is we will fall short about 150 000 | 10:33 |
| Toxip | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1S9nd24uRqsL1qneD-xzHudm_S443P7zH_m49WIOsdIE/edit?usp=sharing | 10:34 |
| coderus | 1,500,000 will be reached today | 10:34 |
| ilpianista | sure | 10:35 |
| Toxip | yup | 10:35 |
| Toxip | been drawing a little spreadsheet about the funds development | 10:35 |
| ilpianista | simo, from reviewjolla.blogspot is optimisitc: https://together.jolla.com/question/69095/jolla-tablet-stretch-goal-switch-split-screen-instead-of-exfat-license-at-1500000/?answer=69098#post-id-69098 | 10:36 |
| Toxip | my estimate may as well be wrong since I just did a simple slope calculation... if we get close to the goal we might get a sudden boost in funds :) | 10:37 |
| stephg | there's usually an uptick at the end apparently yeah | 10:40 |
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| Toxip | I did a quick calculation. If everyone pays about $13 more, we would probably reach the goal... but that means absolutely everyone would have to pay that extra | 10:46 |
| Toxip | and for the 3.5G it would be $77.54 | 10:47 |
| mornfall | Toxip: the number of backers is completely wrong though, if that's what you used | 10:48 |
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| mornfall | (but you probably used the number of tablets pledged) | 10:48 |
| ilpianista | yeah because it counts tablet + lastu case or shipping costs... | 10:48 |
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| Toxip | mornfall: you sure? | 10:49 |
| Toxip | oh yeah... | 10:50 |
| mornfall | Toxip: yes | 10:50 |
| daitheflu | Toxip: + $30 again to get the Tablet with 3.5G | 10:50 |
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| Toxip | well this is very unscientific :D... indiegogo doesn't really show the backers properly | 10:51 |
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| Toxip | does it count me three times if I pledge for tablet + shipping + lastu case? | 10:51 |
| Toxip | if I'm logged in | 10:52 |
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| Mivalpuff | It lists you multiple times, at least | 10:54 |
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| Toxip | well then... It's almost impossible to do any sensible calculation then... I guess the only way would be to count the people who got the tablet perks | 10:55 |
| Toxip | well this is all speculation... | 10:58 |
| Mivalpuff | great, I just found out how to make it show more than 10 extra at once. Shouldn't be too hard calculating it then | 11:00 |
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| silver_hook | Is the Jolla ToU stored anywhere on the device? | 11:10 |
| silver_hook | I’d like to copy it to a bigger screen and read it in peace (and diff it with the one on jolla.com) | 11:10 |
| Stskeeps | afaik it talks about it when it starts up | 11:11 |
| silver_hook | Stskeeps: That’s the one, yes. | 11:11 |
| silver_hook | But I want to read it later as well. | 11:11 |
| Stskeeps | http://jolla.com/legal should be matching | 11:11 |
| silver_hook | And run a diff with the one on http://jolla.com/sailfish-eula/ …because I already found a mismatch. | 11:11 |
| Stskeeps | fun | 11:11 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, we have an .. ongoing task now to sort those out | 11:12 |
| Stskeeps | it's a mess | 11:12 |
| silver_hook | Stskeeps: I’d be happy to do the diff and let you know on t.j.o (or care@ if you prefer) if you let me know where that txt file is on the device. | 11:13 |
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| z3bra | Hi | 11:13 |
| Toxip | hey | 11:14 |
| z3bra | Is that just me or you can only copy text in input boxes ? | 11:14 |
| Mivalpuff | Toxip: I can count 10229 funds, not 10229 invidual ones. So it's like on the list :P | 11:15 |
| Mivalpuff | invidual ones = people | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | silver_hook: the qml is probably there | 11:15 |
| chris__ | coderus is it possible du execuit apk via terminal ? | 11:15 |
| Nicd- | z3bra: that is true in most apps | 11:15 |
| z3bra | hhmpf :/ | 11:15 |
| z3bra | okay thanks | 11:15 |
| Toxip | yeah... more realistic calculation would be taking a look at everyone who got the tablet perk | 11:16 |
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| silver_hook | Stskeeps: That should be enough for me, if you can point me to it ☺ | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | silver_hook: /usr/share/jolla-startupwizard/documents | 11:17 |
| chris__ | coderus ok its dosnt matter... gplay is installed | 11:17 |
| silver_hook | Stskeeps: Thanks! :D | 11:17 |
| Toxip | Mivalpuff:I did the math in the spreadsheet now... new estimate would be $25 per each | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | silver_hook: mail me at carsten.munk@jolla.com and i'll take it forward.. recall that some devices have earlier snapshot s | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | inf actory image | 11:18 |
| silver_hook | Stskeeps: Deal. I’ll still mention it in my blog post and note that Jolla is aware and working on it. Good? | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | ok.. do i dare to ask what you're working on | 11:18 |
| Toxip | z3bra: there's a patch for patchmanager for selecting text in browser | 11:19 |
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| z3bra | Toxip, only for browser ? | 11:19 |
| z3bra | nothing system-wide ? | 11:19 |
| Toxip | although it's a bit buggy... yep, only for browser | 11:19 |
| z3bra | mmmh | 11:19 |
| z3bra | okay thanks | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | silver_hook: anyhow, if you are doing anything jolla & open source related; please read the last two community meeting logs | 11:20 |
| Toxip | I guess it would be possible to implement the functionality to all silica textbox elements? certainly looking forward for such a feature | 11:20 |
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| Stskeeps | if you read that and comprehend the situation as if you were in our shoes, i'd be more than enthusiastic to read your article, even if there's critical things about our messaging | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | it can only help us to improve that | 11:20 |
| silver_hook | Stskeeps: Of course. I’m going to blog about how much FS is in Jolla and how FS you can make it (with(out) breaking it). | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | nod | 11:21 |
| silver_hook | Stskeeps: Full disclaimer: I’m the Legal coordinator of FSFE. | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | silver_hook: yeah, no worries there | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | i much appreciate a proper tear down, it helps also my own work | 11:21 |
| silver_hook | I’ve seen the logs already and find it really cool. Also I’ve had a chat with lbt about my plans and have been hanging around some of the relevant channels. | 11:22 |
| Stskeeps | from FSF pov we're probably not angels remotely, open source it's a little better.. | 11:22 |
| silver_hook | FSFE. | 11:22 |
| Stskeeps | i really need to read up on the difference on those two.. | 11:22 |
| Stskeeps | anyhow, if you have additional questions, feel free to prod me | 11:23 |
| silver_hook | Just a separate entity, same goals. The main difference is just adapting the modus operandi to European cultural background. | 11:23 |
| silver_hook | Stskeeps: Will do, thanks ☺ I’m looking forward to playing with this device …and hopefully see more and more FS on it. | 11:24 |
| silver_hook | Gotta run now. TTFN | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | it's really hard(TM) keeping a sustainable company, being a viable consumer electronics device and open source at same time.. that's really fun to navigate | 11:24 |
| Toxip | Stskeeps: At least I got the impression you're heading in the correct direction... unlike some of your competitors *cough Android | 11:27 |
| Stskeeps | we're trying | 11:27 |
| Stskeeps | closed source is a pain in the ass. | 11:27 |
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| Toxip | Transparency goes a long way :) | 11:28 |
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| Scelt | Stskeeps: but not to create a monster ;-) ( ref: http://youtu.be/u93kdtAUn7g?t=6m46s ) | 11:30 |
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| ccha2 | Toxip, I know about sip on jolla but my question is merge dial call and sip call together | 11:31 |
| Toxip | Scelt: +1 Mikko Hypponen has very good speeches :) | 11:31 |
| Toxip | ccha2: I see | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | i really need to get a ponytail again | 11:31 |
| ccha2 | I put merge 2 dial calls and it works | 11:31 |
| Toxip | Stskeeps: :D | 11:32 |
| tbr | ccha2: that might require something from the SIP server(s) involved, not sure if the stack is capable | 11:33 |
| tbr | ccha2: have you looked at telepathy rakia yet? | 11:33 |
| jonwil | Sounds like Jolla is closed source only where it needs to be to prevent people from cloning their system, slapping it on the cheapest hardware they can get their hands and killing jolla | 11:33 |
| ccha2 | tbr: not yet | 11:34 |
| Scelt | maybe I should set this as my Jolla message tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u93kdtAUn7g&feature=youtu.be&t=8m10s | 11:34 |
| SK_work | ccha2: what did you do atm ? | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | jonwil: knowledge can sometimes be closed source too though/expertise | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | but that's a pretty good assessment | 11:35 |
| tbr | jonwil: if you look at how the HADK is structured, you'll also find it resonating there | 11:35 |
| tbr | CC and "NC" | 11:35 |
| Stskeeps | it's all the time a balancing act | 11:36 |
| Stskeeps | slip and you fall into the canyon | 11:36 |
| tbr | I think the HADK turned out remarkably well | 11:36 |
| tbr | also when looking back at the craptacular failure that MeeGo was in this context | 11:36 |
| Stskeeps | HADK's being used for tablet too, method wise | 11:37 |
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| jonwil | I never heard of MeeGo being ported to anything much | 11:37 |
| Stskeeps | well it was tried | 11:37 |
| Stskeeps | but | 11:37 |
| tbr | sure, it essentially opened the process of making that sausage | 11:37 |
| tbr | jonwil: there was significant community interest | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | it was kinda blocked by project as itself | 11:38 |
| tbr | well it was mainly blocked by the LF which was blocked by the two behemoth corporates behind it | 11:38 |
| jonwil | At least the port to the N900 resulted in a bunch of useful-to-us-hackers Maemo code being made open source... | 11:39 |
| * stephg always suspected s/blocked/conspiracy/ on one side in particular | 11:39 | |
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| Stskeeps | jonwil: yeah.. you can thank me/sage/harri and a couple of others for that | 11:39 |
| tbr | stephg: not much conspiracy, just corporate wheels being extremely slow and byzantine | 11:39 |
| tbr | stephg: after all it was very similar to the intended process (as in productizing MeeGo), just not done by commercial entities with huge R&D departments | 11:41 |
| tbr | I had very "interesting" discussions on many levels, even arguing with Arjan and others about the Kernel version requirements which came from the compliance documents | 11:42 |
| stephg | fair enough, I just have a distinct impression that Intel could have 'played better' than they did | 11:42 |
| stephg | or at least remember it like that, perhaps it's a malice vs. stupidity thing | 11:42 |
| tbr | Tizen doesn't have the problem, as they simply don't have the community | 11:43 |
| chris__ | coderus - you try the ICQ Plugin Extansions in 1.1.0.39? - its installed, i see icq in the accounts, but without ICQ Logo and if i push on it to create one, nothing happen, no wizzard | 11:43 |
| tbr | which means, that they actually _do_ have it and acknowledge that they do, just that they don't have to bother | 11:43 |
| tbr | to their credit, it would be significantly easier nowadays | 11:44 |
| Toxip | well tizen just turned the awesome and innovative operating to just another Android copy :/ | 11:44 |
| SK_work | tbr: there is some nice community around Tizen actually :) | 11:44 |
| Toxip | operating system* | 11:44 |
| jonwil | I dont know who did the ofono work for the N900 stuff but it seems like the goal there was to support the bare minimum MeeGo needed and document as little as possible about the workings of the modem. Heck, I am surprised that they didn't just port the Cellular Services Daemon from Maemo as-is rather than bothering with an ofono port... | 11:44 |
| SK_work | what I don't like with Tizen is web runtime | 11:44 |
| tbr | SK_work: you mean there is someone who is not on payroll of one of the big corps or their contractors (or trying to be)? | 11:45 |
| SK_work | tbr: there are people yes | 11:46 |
| SK_work | like rzr | 11:46 |
| Stskeeps | jonwil: no way in hell nokia would allow a redistributable of csd.. | 11:46 |
| jonwil | hmmm good point | 11:47 |
| tbr | SK_work: not really a vibrant and visible community though | 11:47 |
| Toxip | Thinking back about the "burning platform" just makes me laugh when looking at the current situation :P | 11:47 |
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| jonwil | Seems like writing the bare minimum ofono driver (and doing as little documentation as possible) was the outcome that was the most acceptable to Nokia then. | 11:47 |
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| tbr | jonwil: it was likely done by contractors, so it was a cost factor too | 11:50 |
| jonwil | yeah true | 11:50 |
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| jonwil | Too bad the docs I picked up from www.wirelessmodemapi.com (back when that site was actually going) don't match the N900 cellular modem :( | 11:56 |
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| tbr | nokia was great at using "customized" things | 11:57 |
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| tbr | it was convenient for them, but a total b*tch if you wanted to understand anything | 11:57 |
| jonwil | Seems like the N900 has more than a few examples of reinventing the wheel when the wheel that already existed was perfectly fine... | 11:58 |
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| Mivalpuff | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1g-1e-8ujdRqb9_DL9gEGRyLxHWywvzAQJRQ1dhCriak/edit#gid=0 Toxip - A complete list, if of any interest :P The amount of private contributions make it a little hard to get the exact amount of people, though :P | 12:11 |
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| chris__ | argh i hate Uitukka and xmpp | 12:13 |
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| jonwil | anyone know what maesync is? | 12:15 |
| tbr | Mivalpuff: that's a private sheet? | 12:17 |
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| Mivalpuff | hmm, "share with internet" isn't public, apparantly | 12:18 |
| Mivalpuff | Seems to work now | 12:19 |
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| silver_hook | Stskeeps: I know and I’m very happy to see you guys trying. | 12:51 |
| * ggabriel resisting a yoda moment | 12:52 | |
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| silver_hook | Hehe | 12:55 |
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| chem|st | chris__: still not working? | 12:57 |
| chris__ | chem|st, https://together.jolla.com/question/69266/create-a-xmpp-account-are-broken-in-11039/ | 12:57 |
| chem|st | chris__: have you tried - delete the accounts, reboot your device, go online!, add account - ? | 12:58 |
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| chris__ | go online? with no accounts? | 12:59 |
| chris__ | delte + reboot yes | 13:00 |
| chem|st | chris__: internet connection | 13:00 |
| chem|st | you need to be connected to the internet or it will fail | 13:00 |
| chem|st | while setting it up that is | 13:00 |
| chris__ | internet over 3g or wlan is on | 13:00 |
| chem|st | during setup or to go online with the account? | 13:01 |
| chris__ | moment | 13:01 |
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| chris__ | also..... i delete my account, reboot device, device connect auto to the internet 3G or Wlan, i push Online in event page, and than creat a account | 13:03 |
| j-doge | chris__: so your xmpp account isn't shown in the events view presence page? Can you send messages to contacts? | 13:03 |
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| chris__ | j-doge, no contact | 13:03 |
| chris__ | no contacts in the earth ball | 13:04 |
| chris__ | but server information, username and passwor are 100% ok... i test it under pidgin | 13:04 |
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| chem|st | chris__: it does not even work for me to use another port than the default one... | 13:05 |
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| chris__ | i use 5222, its standard | 13:05 |
| chris__ | aha | 13:06 |
| chem|st | yes, just an example, if I change that it does not work anymore | 13:06 |
| chris__ | u mean with other port | 13:06 |
| chem|st | it is so stupid | 13:06 |
| chris__ | but you use 5222 | 13:06 |
| chem|st | now I do yes, as anything else does not work | 13:07 |
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| chris__ | and i use it too | 13:07 |
| chris__ | also 5222 and no other | 13:08 |
| RavenholmDX | really liking my Jolla | 13:14 |
| RavenholmDX | now if only I can get the SD card to work | 13:14 |
| phaeron | RavenholmDX: you mean with mtp ? | 13:15 |
| RavenholmDX | yeah | 13:15 |
| RavenholmDX | internal memory works fine | 13:15 |
| silver_hook | Apart from the Browser, is there any other pre-installed app that’s FS? The tutorial? | 13:16 |
| RavenholmDX | FS? | 13:16 |
| ggabriel | silver_hook: not that i'm aware of, but all preinstalled applications should use middleware that's fs | 13:17 |
| Tegu | fs? | 13:17 |
| ggabriel | take telepathy as an example | 13:17 |
| ggabriel | fs=free software (I think) | 13:17 |
| Tegu | ah | 13:17 |
| ggabriel | s/all/most/ | 13:18 |
| ggabriel | (not sure about aliendalvik) | 13:18 |
| silver_hook | Free Software, yes (a.k.a. Open Source Software, if you will) | 13:18 |
| silver_hook | AFAIK Alien Dalvik is proprietary. | 13:18 |
| ggabriel | yup | 13:18 |
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| Stskeeps | silver_hook: remember the set of apps are small, like clock etc is not preinstalled | 13:18 |
| ggabriel | belongs to alien :D | 13:18 |
| Tegu | documents is also open source, but it's not preinstalled | 13:18 |
| SK_work | silver_hook: office | 13:19 |
| ggabriel | yup, techncially aliendalvik doesn't come preinstalled | 13:19 |
| silver_hook | Stskeeps: I noticed that yes. | 13:19 |
| ggabriel | just available through the jolla recommended ones | 13:19 |
| Tegu | calling that an "office" is a bit exaggeration, imho :P | 13:19 |
| Tegu | essentially it's an PDF viewer | 13:19 |
| Tegu | a | 13:20 |
| ggabriel | you can also see xls, doc | 13:20 |
| silver_hook | Tegu: Well, the Documents app is actually just a read-only port of Calligra – which *is* a full office suite. | 13:20 |
| silver_hook | Tegu: http://www.calligra.org | 13:20 |
| Tegu | oh | 13:20 |
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| silver_hook | Stskeeps: And from the recommended/essential apps …anything apart from Documents? | 13:20 |
| Stskeeps | none, atm | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | i think | 13:21 |
| phaeron | RavenholmDX: does your sdcard have partitions ? | 13:21 |
| silver_hook | Stskeeps: Thanks :) | 13:21 |
| silver_hook | …and if there was, it’d be in the Sailfish’s public github repo? | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | -if- it relies on closed source somehow, like silica | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | if it works fine on top of mer-nemo, it goes there | 13:22 |
| RavenholmDX | no phaeron | 13:22 |
| RavenholmDX | just 64GB ext4 | 13:22 |
| silver_hook | Stskeeps: Cool. But I guess all official Jolla apps rely on Silica. | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 13:22 |
| silver_hook | …also Silica is needed for fancy covers, right? | 13:23 |
| Tegu | btw, I like how the Jolla's support site tells people to install File Browser app. there's also the Jolla's own file browser in the repos but not in the store | 13:23 |
| chem|st | phaeron: good reminder, I have btrfs with 2 subvolumes 32GB default volume for jolla and another for android | 13:23 |
| chem|st | no partitions | 13:23 |
| chem|st | Tegu: it is a proof of concept and stopped working with one of the recent releases | 13:24 |
| phaeron | RavenholmDX: just trying to think why it wouldn't work | 13:24 |
| Tegu | okay, haven't tried it in ages | 13:24 |
| chem|st | cargo has webdav^^ | 13:25 |
| chem|st | or owncloud | 13:25 |
| RavenholmDX | phaeron: what's a good SD card fs format for Jolla? | 13:25 |
| ggabriel | depends | 13:25 |
| phaeron | for mtp it doesn't matter | 13:25 |
| chem|st | phaeron: it seems that it does... | 13:26 |
| RavenholmDX | btrfs? | 13:26 |
| the_mgt | I use an old Nokia SD Card with my Jolla phone, works flawless. but was kind of expensive | 13:26 |
| chris__ | chem|st, i try now delte account, go offline, reboot, create account, there ask me for internet , turn on, go online, create account, nothing ghelp | 13:27 |
| ggabriel | RavenholmDX: i use that, but some people found problems/bugs | 13:27 |
| chem|st | RavenholmDX: as the internal fs is btrfs you at least do not need any extra kernel mods loaded | 13:27 |
| ggabriel | +1 chem|st | 13:27 |
| ggabriel | ext4 may be more reliable, but requires more kernel code to be available | 13:27 |
| chem|st | chris__: connect to internet before you start setting up the account | 13:27 |
| ggabriel | also, neither of those are "easily shareable" | 13:27 |
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| ggabriel | "oh, no, it doesn't work with my mac" kind of thing | 13:27 |
| ggabriel | use exfat for that | 13:27 |
| the_mgt | so the sd slot/reader supports 64gb cards on the phone? | 13:28 |
| chem|st | chris__: and don't touch events-page after boot until you have setup the account (why would you set anything to online?) | 13:28 |
| chem|st | the_mgt: the slot supports at least 128gb | 13:28 |
| phaeron | RavenholmDX: does your sdcard get mounted automatically ? | 13:29 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: I don't share my sdcard with anyone, I have private data on there | 13:29 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: the comment was more to RavenholmDX :) | 13:29 |
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| chem|st | so I need something that works in my PC and that is what works on debian | 13:30 |
| chem|st | RavenholmDX: what is your desktop system | 13:30 |
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| RavenholmDX | chem|st: Mint 17.1/Windows 8.1 | 13:31 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: that applies to most people | 13:31 |
| RavenholmDX | works in neither | 13:31 |
| RavenholmDX | formatting mSD to btrfs now | 13:31 |
| chem|st | ext4 does but btrfs wont work in win iirc | 13:31 |
| chem|st | RavenholmDX: do you use android? | 13:31 |
| RavenholmDX | used to | 13:31 |
| RavenholmDX | just moved to Jolla | 13:31 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: was just trying to expand on my "depends", I think I kind of get your use case from previous conversations | 13:31 |
| phaeron | chem|st: the sdcard partitions (or volumes) need to be mounted so they get exported. if you are doing something fancy without mounting it , then it won't work | 13:32 |
| chem|st | I mean alien dalvike | 13:32 |
| ggabriel | RavenholmDX: if you're doing btrfs, format on the jolla, not on your desktop system | 13:32 |
| RavenholmDX | possibly | 13:32 |
| RavenholmDX | I try not to | 13:32 |
| chem|st | phaeron: the subvolumes are both mounted | 13:32 |
| ggabriel | unless you have the same kernel | 13:32 |
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| chem|st | RavenholmDX: follow this if you like to have android use your sdcard https://together.jolla.com/question/40802/how-to-format-your-usd-card-to-btrfs-and-share-space-with-android/ | 13:33 |
| chem|st | phaeron: I wrote that in the link above if you want to check | 13:33 |
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| phaeron | chem|st: ok just going through points on why it wouldn't be exported | 13:33 |
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| chem|st | ggabriel: I think of the $sheep I know, and none of them ever removes their SD, only for replacing it with a bigger one... | 13:34 |
| phaeron | chem|st: I have no problems with fancy stuff :) | 13:34 |
| the_mgt | does the mtp stuff expose the sdcard if you plug your phone into a windows machine? | 13:35 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: so the few loud voices that want to have their extraordinary use-case heard is what I try to silence as this should be met by touch&go for $user and not some fancy requirements of photographers etc | 13:36 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: agree, depends on the $sheep. I'm happy with ssh/sshfs | 13:36 |
| chris__ | chem|st, i do that too :) | 13:36 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: I cannot use mtp, I wont unplug my sd every time I need something so I use rsync ;) on windows and on linux especially as MTP is a big fckup on winXP which I am forced to at work | 13:37 |
| chris__ | chem|st, nothing help. and my os is fresh new installed :D | 13:37 |
| the_mgt | chem|st: the case is exactly the other way around. there are a few loud voices that live in a land were pink unicorns reign, who believe that putting stones on the way for average users and other peoples usecases is a righteous goal. just because the evil software company gets a few bucks more | 13:38 |
| chem|st | chris__: and after setting up the account you closed the account page and went to presence and did what? | 13:38 |
| chem|st | press online? | 13:38 |
| chem|st | or away? | 13:38 |
| chris__ | i think i do all steps :) | 13:38 |
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| chris__ | t feeling that i delete and create 100+ times with different ways | 13:39 |
| chem|st | the_mgt: I don't care if MS gets money or not | 13:39 |
| the_mgt | so why the hatred toward photographers and users that want to exchange their cards often? | 13:39 |
| chris__ | with/wo reboot, with online/away/offline, wlan, 3g, connect before/after i begin to creat a account.... sucks really.... | 13:40 |
| chem|st | the_mgt: the sdcard needs to be a fire&forget scenario for $user, just like on android or windowsphone, on both said systems the users do not care what FS is used they care that it works and they care that it works when they hook the device up to a computer | 13:40 |
| chris__ | mybe is the best way do a factory rest , update to 1.0.25 and setting up there and THAN update to 1.1.0.39 | 13:41 |
| RavenholmDX | It's working with fat32 | 13:41 |
| j-doge | chris__: so you've had the same account added prior to a factory reset and it's worked? | 13:41 |
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| RavenholmDX | chem|st: there should be an option to format the SD card on the device | 13:42 |
| chem|st | the_mgt: it is not hatred, I am more annoyed, I want a solution not a feature - the sd is to extend internal memory, not a share hub... there is not even a button to unmount it from the live system... or does it unmount when you pull the backcover? that would be even more stupid! | 13:42 |
| chem|st | RavenholmDX: encrypt it, move android data there, and so on... | 13:43 |
| the_mgt | chem|st: I removed my sdcard a few times "live" | 13:43 |
| RavenholmDX | chem|st: I probably won't bother | 13:43 |
| RavenholmDX | I'll have one android app at most installed | 13:43 |
| chem|st | the_mgt: just 3 days ago a friend shot the controller of his new 64GB pendrive that way... | 13:43 |
| the_mgt | chem|st: yes and no. there are people who just want to plug in the card and use usb to move files to the device. they need mtp/mass storage which does not work. so they remove the card, put it into the computer, computer cant read $linuxfs on the card, asks to reformat. they do that, put files on the card. put it in jolla device, device says "can't read, want to reformat?". so the user is double pissed now | 13:43 |
| RavenholmDX | what size is the Android 'sdcard'? | 13:43 |
| chem|st | the_mgt: and that is the point, people on tjc asking for "features" to circumvent bugs and that is stupid! | 13:44 |
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| the_mgt | chem|st: so you are pro exfat? | 13:45 |
| chem|st | RavenholmDX: it is a folder in internal memory | 13:45 |
| chem|st | RavenholmDX: or are you asking about my btrfs mod? | 13:46 |
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| chem|st | the_mgt: I am neither pro nor con, I really don't care as both wont solve MTP | 13:46 |
| meklu | chem|st: ext4 barely works on windows, if that | 13:46 |
| chris__ | j-doge, before 1.1.0.39 update, my accoun still working! After 1.1.0.39 Update, to! i do a factory reset and update 1.0.0.5 to 1.0.2.25 and than to 1.1.0.39. And now i want create the xmpp account and this is not working | 13:46 |
| chris__ | to! = too! | 13:46 |
| RavenholmDX | chem|st: I'm asking about the default | 13:46 |
| chem|st | RavenholmDX: internal memory | 13:47 |
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| RavenholmDX | does it predefine a set size? | 13:47 |
| chem|st | nope | 13:47 |
| chem|st | just a folder in the root fs | 13:47 |
| RavenholmDX | ah cool | 13:47 |
| j-doge | chris__: sounds really weird, sorry but I don't think I have anything to help you there :/ | 13:47 |
| chem|st | meklu: I know, I try to write as less as possible and only rather unimportant things... | 13:48 |
| the_mgt | chem|st: ok. beginning to understand your posts on tjc a bit better now | 13:48 |
| chem|st | I used to have my linux /home/chemist as windows home folder for a while but that has its flaws (journal recovery every now and then and some corrupted files) | 13:49 |
| chem|st | the_mgt: I am always happy to explain my point, I know that I get misunderstood quiet frequently | 13:49 |
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| meklu | I think I last tried it in 2010 or 2011 | 13:49 |
| the_mgt | sadly, SyncMate on osx does not recognize jolla either, would have payed them. what I am not willing to do is compiling libmtp and a bunch of tools on osx. could have sticked to gentoo if I were in the modd with that | 13:50 |
| meklu | only managed to read things, and those things were corrupted about 90% of the time | 13:50 |
| chem|st | meklu: yea about that time I stopped using it as standard partitions in windows, windows used to be root fs of 20GB for windwos and everything else was at least ext3, with win7 I stopped doing that | 13:51 |
| chem|st | huh? | 13:51 |
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| RavenholmDX | I hate that it's just one app keeping me from running Sailfish apps exclusively | 13:51 |
| chem|st | wrong driver it seems, I watch movies and series under windows sometimes in between gaming | 13:51 |
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| phdeswer | RavenholmDX: and that would be? | 13:52 |
| RavenholmDX | My Windows installation is just for gaming | 13:53 |
| RavenholmDX | phdeswer: offline maps | 13:53 |
| chem|st | RavenholmDX: I hate that we have alien-dalvik in the first place^^ it prevents people from coding for sailfish "why should I port it, the android version works just fine" | 13:53 |
| RavenholmDX | chem|st: I made one of the apps I would have used | 13:53 |
| RavenholmDX | but making an offline map app is a bit more complex | 13:53 |
| RavenholmDX | especially with no open API providing map tiles | 13:53 |
| chem|st | RavenholmDX: yeah I have the nokia here beta - and some sailing apps... | 13:53 |
| phdeswer | RavenholmDX: ok. I thought there was some offline native openstreetmap stuff. But not sure if that is sufficient | 13:53 |
| RavenholmDX | phdeswer: OSM doesn't let you batch download map tiles | 13:54 |
| RavenholmDX | just the vector data | 13:54 |
| chem|st | phdeswer: not really convinient yet | 13:54 |
| RavenholmDX | so you'd have to render the map tiles locally | 13:54 |
| RavenholmDX | which is a bit more of a development effort | 13:54 |
| RavenholmDX | I've been looking into it | 13:54 |
| chris__ | j-doge, chem|st no problem, thanks for the tipps... but i will try again with factory reset and update to 1.0.25 and setting up the ICQ + XMPP Account, and update than to 1.1.0.39 | 13:54 |
| phdeswer | Well good to know. Never really looked at it as I have no need for it. | 13:54 |
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| RavenholmDX | I like to travel, but I don't like roaming charges, so offline maps are a godsend, especially when they support KML markers | 13:55 |
| chem|st | phdeswer: I used nokia navigation on my N9, I was so impressed and it was one buying factor for the jolla, "it comes with Nokia Maps", pretty disappointed by now! | 13:55 |
| chem|st | chris__: my accounts broke in between updates and I had to set them up again... doubt that solves your problem, the next update might do | 13:56 |
| ikarus | uh, quick and silly Q, but anyone using Webcat as an alternative browser and have it set as a handler for URLs from apps (or alternatively, has another browser to suggest for that better then the stock one), it seems that once opened, webcat doesn't open any new url via the handler setup according to https://together.jolla.com/question/1836/set-default-browser/ it works fine if the browser isn't open yet, but that happens rarely | 13:56 |
| phdeswer | Well I found that the Nokia navigation was lacking, so replaced it by a stand alone unit. | 13:57 |
| RavenholmDX | http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Libosmscout | 13:57 |
| RavenholmDX | that's probably the best chance for a native offline maps app | 13:57 |
| chris__ | chem|st, i working on it, let us see :) | 13:57 |
| chem|st | phdeswer: the N9 | 13:57 |
| chem|st | ? | 13:57 |
| phdeswer | yep N9. | 13:57 |
| phdeswer | Too often got sent in the wrong direction as it was too slow to tell me where to go. | 13:58 |
| chem|st | apart of some guidance in the wrong direction (voice said left, map said right) and newly created streets missing... I had no issues, even the speed alerts where pretty up2date | 13:59 |
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| chem|st | phdeswer: slow? you must be kidding, did you use online maps or did you set it to offline? | 14:00 |
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| chem|st | that is a known issue, you need to set the app to offline mode and it wont wait for an online response (that never comes) | 14:01 |
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| chem|st | or with huge delay | 14:01 |
| phdeswer | chem|st: the problem was like this. Turn off at this exit (highway junction). And then there are two directions at the exit and it does not tell you which one to follow. By the time it caught up you're often off in the wrong direction. | 14:01 |
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| ikarus | Also is it possible to disable privacy invasive location determination and just use passive GPS ? | 14:01 |
| chem|st | ah ok, well sometimes | 14:02 |
| ikarus | I am not a big fan of "you know what, let's map all the worlds wifi networks" | 14:02 |
| chem|st | ikarus: yes, settings system location | 14:02 |
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| tbr | fully passive GPS (without even fetching an almanac) needs a free view of the sky and 5-15min on most current consumer hardware | 14:02 |
| tbr | those chips are designed to be used with assistance | 14:03 |
| chem|st | phdeswer: but that did not happen very often, and did happen with standalone units too | 14:03 |
| SK_work | ikarus: you can technically | 14:03 |
| phdeswer | chem|st: happened often enough. And stand alone units have nice things like lane indications etc which the N9 lacked | 14:03 |
| SK_work | just remove geoclue-provider-here | 14:03 |
| SK_work | (iirc) | 14:03 |
| chem|st | tbr: GPS needs up to 12minutes on any hardware, not only consumer... that is how gps works | 14:03 |
| ikarus | chem|st: no that only has a toggle for no location and use everything you can think of | 14:03 |
| ikarus | chem|st: not use GPS only | 14:03 |
| ikarus | SK_work: ah, thanks | 14:04 |
| chem|st | ikarus: pardon? | 14:04 |
| tbr | chem|st: that's the absolute worst case scenario, yes | 14:04 |
| chem|st | ikarus: there is a button to deactivate the A of AGPS | 14:04 |
| tbr | chem|st: you will notice though, that good newer chipsets get a much faster fix, also by using things like WAAS | 14:04 |
| phdeswer | chem|st: ikarus : I think that came with the opt in update 9 | 14:05 |
| tbr | hmm, not sure if WAAS helps with TTF | 14:05 |
| ikarus | chem|st: for me it just has a button Location and you can toggle it on or off | 14:05 |
| ikarus | phdeswer: aaah | 14:05 |
| chem|st | phdeswer: ikarus sry I am one update ahead ;) | 14:06 |
| phdeswer | ikarus: chem|st : well as long as you remember Jolla took the feedback and implemented it ;) | 14:06 |
| chem|st | tbr: waas helps with precision but does it help with almanac data? | 14:07 |
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| chem|st | what is teh almanac transfer rate? 50bit/s? | 14:07 |
| ikarus | chem|st: yes, it broadcasts it | 14:07 |
| chem|st | ikarus: yeah I know, that button will come with the next update | 14:08 |
| ikarus | also a good implementation will cache enough data that unless you are using it 1000km's away with a really unreliable clock, it will be able to refind the location in under a minute | 14:08 |
| chem|st | ikarus: be aware that you only give updates for cahnges, here and google have tracked alot on their own | 14:08 |
| ikarus | chem|st: there is a lawsuit still ongoing on that | 14:09 |
| chem|st | wifi tracking? | 14:09 |
| ikarus | chem|st: yes | 14:09 |
| ikarus | well, actually the cataloging part is probably illegal, just detecting them isn't | 14:10 |
| chem|st | google did already an impressive job with navigation on GSM phones without any wifi... | 14:10 |
| ikarus | due to some interesting legal quirks | 14:10 |
| tbr | yeah, that's another problem, most devices don't cache anything as they are designed to just get fresh data over the net | 14:10 |
| ikarus | tbr: yup and that data, allows Here and Google's to know with quite a lot of precision where you are | 14:11 |
| ikarus | guess what, I don't want to share that with them, it's bad enough my phone provider stores that data | 14:11 |
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| chem|st | tbr: you only get the timings and vectors for your location, if you move outside range of the passage you need new data | 14:12 |
| chem|st | ikarus: so you want offline maps with offline gps? me too | 14:13 |
| ikarus | but anyway, anyone have ideas on the question of setting webcat as default browser ?, it works, but webcat doesn't provide a dbus service so doesn't accept new urls while it's already running I guess ? | 14:13 |
| ikarus | (but that is just a guess) | 14:13 |
| SK_work | ikarus: yes | 14:14 |
| SK_work | the problem is the DBus API of sailfish-browser | 14:14 |
| tbr | I'd recommend you guys look into hooking a bt-gps into the geoclue | 14:14 |
| tbr | that would get you much better performance under offline conditions | 14:14 |
| tbr | just saying | 14:14 |
| phdeswer | ikarus: well techincally there is no identifying data sent to HERE. | 14:14 |
| ikarus | SK_work: what is the problem with it ? just unimplemented in webcat, or undocumented ? | 14:14 |
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| SK_work | ikarus: I guess unimplemented | 14:17 |
| SK_work | not sure | 14:17 |
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| *** Vynnie is now known as Vynney | 14:20 | |
| Vynney | yay | 14:20 |
| Vynney | got my jolla phone today | 14:20 |
| * Vynney hugs the channel | 14:21 | |
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| Stskeeps | make sure to upgrade it as soon as you get it | 14:21 |
| SK_work | Vynney: :):) | 14:21 |
| Vynney | I know this is a noob question | 14:21 |
| chem|st | just ask ;) | 14:21 |
| Stskeeps | and importantly, after upgrading, run tutorial.. | 14:22 |
| Vynney | but i haven't cut my simcard yet as I'll be going to my bf and need communication en route and know I'd have none when I screw up | 14:22 |
| Vynney | so how do i turn off my jolla phone? | 14:22 |
| Stskeeps | hold down power button | 14:22 |
| Stskeeps | if you mean totally power off | 14:22 |
| chem|st | yes you do, the connector is a real B*TCH | 14:22 |
| Stskeeps | until it vibrastes | 14:22 |
| Vynney | then it locks, double tap turns it on | 14:22 |
| chem|st | press and hold | 14:23 |
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| HarhaanJohtaja | it does not tunr off in the lockscreen | 14:23 |
| anYc | doesn't work on the lock screen | 14:23 |
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| chem|st | ^^ | 14:23 |
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| anYc | had that problem too once :) | 14:23 |
| Vynney | thanks | 14:24 |
| chem|st | lol... I type reboot in fingerterm | 14:24 |
| Vynney | or shut down | 14:25 |
| tbr | or dsmetool -b or such | 14:25 |
| Vynney | when I have my simcard in I'll make a Jolla acount | 14:25 |
| chem|st | I barely shutdown | 14:25 |
| Vynney | s/shut\ down/shutdown now | 14:25 |
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| chem|st | Vynney: update first! and therfor you need an jolla account | 14:25 |
| Vynney | and insert my fb and other accounts | 14:25 |
| Vynney | ah | 14:26 |
| Vynney | ill do that tonight | 14:26 |
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| Vynney | I'll need an account for the Jolla store anyway | 14:26 |
| chem|st | update to latest release before you do anything else, and after that follow the tutorial (that is then a new tutorial!) | 14:26 |
| chem|st | you need an account for updating "anyway" | 14:27 |
| Vynney | even before I insert sim | 14:27 |
| Vynney | I've already browsed over wifi, is that bad? | 14:27 |
| chem|st | no its not | 14:27 |
| Vynney | ok | 14:27 |
| chem|st | as long as you did no banking^^ | 14:28 |
| Vynney | no | 14:28 |
| Vynney | running 1.0.8 iirc | 14:28 |
| chem|st | what is latest stable? isn't it 1.0.8? | 14:29 |
| Nicd- | yes | 14:29 |
| anYc | 1.0.8.21 afair | 14:29 |
| anYc | did this this morning :) | 14:30 |
| Vynney | cant find tahlakampi | 14:30 |
| Vynney | i thought it was a lake in finland? | 14:30 |
| Nicd- | tahkalampi* :) | 14:30 |
| Vynney | ah | 14:30 |
| chem|st | ;) | 14:30 |
| chem|st | Vynney: if you are at 1.0.8.21, they ship now with the latest release ;) | 14:31 |
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| Vynney | hold on | 14:33 |
| chem|st | Vynney: but that is a security fix of 1.0.8.19 | 14:33 |
| RavenholmDX | I got my Jolla yesterday | 14:33 |
| RavenholmDX | and it was manufactured in March 2014 | 14:34 |
| RavenholmDX | seems a bit crazy they would still have stock | 14:34 |
| Nicd- | November 2013 master race | 14:34 |
| chem|st | RavenholmDX: probably the other countries got their own batches shipped | 14:34 |
| Nicd- | with all the fun bugs :D | 14:34 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: fun? shutup! | 14:34 |
| chem|st | ;) | 14:35 |
| Vynney | .19 | 14:35 |
| RavenholmDX | chem|st: mine came from finland | 14:35 |
| Vynney | does the lake have a more native name? | 14:35 |
| chem|st | Vynney: yeah you are one update short then | 14:35 |
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| Vynney | i can only find tech-site pics | 14:35 |
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| Vynney | I liked the idea of Jolla updates to give me holiday tips | 14:36 |
| chem|st | RavenholmDX: thats what I mean, they still have the second batch as HK, india & russia got their own batch | 14:36 |
| RavenholmDX | ah | 14:36 |
| RavenholmDX | should I update to 1.10? | 14:36 |
| RavenholmDX | I've opted in, but haven't pulled the trigger | 14:37 |
| Nicd- | Vynney: http://www.jarviwiki.fi/wiki/Tahkalampi_%2804.269.1.023%29?setskin=koitere (it's in finnish though) | 14:37 |
| chem|st | RavenholmDX: you can, xmpp seems borked and 1.1.1 seems to be around the corner | 14:37 |
| chem|st | might be another month though | 14:38 |
| RavenholmDX | xmpp as in the native facebook messaging? | 14:38 |
| chem|st | xmpp as in jabber | 14:38 |
| RavenholmDX | that's what facebook uses isn't it? | 14:38 |
| chem|st | no idea if it affected FB | 14:38 |
| chem|st | yes but it is the custom accounts that play up | 14:38 |
| Vynney | thanks | 14:38 |
| RavenholmDX | "Your instant messaging client connects to Facebook Chat via the Jabber/XMPP service." | 14:39 |
| Vynney | i though fb ditched XMPP? | 14:39 |
| anYc | if I remember correctly, google and fb use own variants of xmpp | 14:39 |
| chem|st | I know only one guy where it seems to be unfixable yet | 14:39 |
| Nicd- | Vynney: it's closing next spring | 14:39 |
| Vynney | hmm | 14:39 |
| Nicd- | FB's XMPP that is | 14:39 |
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| * Vynney hopes he can get his friends to more free alternatives | 14:40 | |
| RavenholmDX | Nicd-: yeah, April 30, 2015 | 14:40 |
| RavenholmDX | they're deprecating API v1.0 | 14:40 |
| Vynney | none of my friends use diaspora :'( | 14:40 |
| ilpianista | $1,499,968USD | 14:41 |
| lainwir3d | f5 f5 f5 f5 f5 | 14:41 |
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| RavenholmDX | someone needs to buy a cover | 14:41 |
| ilpianista | please use my referral! :-P | 14:41 |
| mornfall | Vynney: well, diaspora is a mess | 14:41 |
| mornfall | RavenholmDX: only until april | 14:41 |
| mornfall | RavenholmDX: then it's the new api for chat | 14:42 |
| ilpianista | Vynney: I switched to Pump.IO | 14:42 |
| j-doge | I was thinking I'd pledge for a second tablet just to be the one to break 1,5M :P | 14:42 |
| lainwir3d | $1.500.017 ! 1st stretch goal done. | 14:42 |
| RavenholmDX | just broke 1.5m | 14:42 |
| Vynney | mornfall: yes, but Facebook hates and disrespects you and everyone you know | 14:42 |
| lainwir3d | RavenholmDX: got you ! | 14:42 |
| Vynney | oh | 14:42 |
| RavenholmDX | now aim for 400% | 14:42 |
| mornfall | Vynney: of course | 14:42 |
| RavenholmDX | currently at 395% | 14:42 |
| SK_work | 1.5m gone ? | 14:42 |
| Stskeeps | 1.5 | 14:42 |
| Stskeeps | time to go drinking | 14:42 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:43 |
| lainwir3d | :P | 14:43 |
| chris__ | ^^+is it possible to Update from 1.0.21 to UNDER 1.1.0.38 ? | 14:43 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: good plan | 14:43 |
| lainwir3d | Fortunately I have a bottle in my drawer at work. | 14:43 |
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| j-doge | Stskeeps: friday afternoon, clock nearing 5 PM, yes it indeed does look the time to go drinking! | 14:43 |
| tbr | chris__: yes, if your account isn't opted in | 14:43 |
| chris__ | nope :( | 14:43 |
| chem|st | 1.5M reached! | 14:44 |
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| RavenholmDX | memory usage is at 75% with 5 apps open | 14:44 |
| chris__ | tbr, no other way over terminal ? | 14:44 |
| RavenholmDX | messaging/email/browser/settings/lighthouse | 14:44 |
| Nicd- | RavenholmDX: how are you checking? | 14:44 |
| dr_gogeta86 | but for my two tabs i need to spend 20*3 | 14:44 |
| dr_gogeta86 | euro | 14:45 |
| RavenholmDX | Nicd-: using Lighthouse | 14:45 |
| SK_work | RavenholmDX: which version ? | 14:45 |
| chris__ | tbr, i have the ope-in | 14:45 |
| SK_work | lighthouse eats RAM :D | 14:45 |
| dr_gogeta86 | including latsu case | 14:45 |
| RavenholmDX | SK_work: any other alternative? | 14:45 |
| tbr | chris__: no idea if it's a direct upgrade, it might actually go to u8 before u9 | 14:45 |
| RavenholmDX | lighthouse has a nice live cover | 14:45 |
| tbr | haven't done it myself | 14:45 |
| SK_work | RavenholmDX: know openrepos ? | 14:45 |
| SK_work | there is this sysmon that is pretty pretty good | 14:45 |
| RavenholmDX | yep | 14:46 |
| RavenholmDX | I have Warehouse installed | 14:46 |
| SK_work | RavenholmDX: go grab system monitor | 14:46 |
| SK_work | or sysmon | 14:46 |
| SK_work | more Ubuntu tablet stuff, this time real proto ! http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTg1NDM | 14:49 |
| RavenholmDX | SK_work, says 'No data' for everything? | 14:49 |
| RavenholmDX | just it need to run for a while to get that data? | 14:49 |
| SK_work | RavenholmDX: wait a bit | 14:49 |
| SK_work | yes | 14:49 |
| SK_work | but check if it is started in serttings :) | 14:49 |
| SK_work | it can autostart when phone starts too ! | 14:49 |
| SK_work | it has a daemon | 14:49 |
| Stskeeps | SK_work: isn't that basically the vivaldi ID? | 14:50 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 14:50 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: not really | 14:50 |
| SK_work | the vivaldi is smaller (7'), and more curvy | 14:50 |
| Stskeeps | http://cdn1.techworld.com/cmsdata/features/3355260/Vivaldi_Linux_tablet.jpg | 14:50 |
| Stskeeps | fair | 14:50 |
| RavenholmDX | SK_work: does it hurt battery much? | 14:50 |
| SK_work | RavenholmDX: not much | 14:50 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: this tablet "compares with ubuntu edge"! | 14:50 |
| Stskeeps | SK_work: yeah, err, no | 14:51 |
| Stskeeps | at least ubuntu edge was ht | 14:51 |
| Stskeeps | ot | 14:51 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:51 |
| SK_work | saphir screen, 4 gigs ram and octo intel core coming :) | 14:51 |
| lainwir3d | is it me or is this tablet ugly ? | 14:51 |
| popey | its not just you | 14:51 |
| Stskeeps | lainwir3d: it's not just you | 14:51 |
| SK_work | (spoiler: I guess no) | 14:51 |
| SK_work | it's not you | 14:51 |
| Stskeeps | of all the IDs that are possible to get by walking down a back street in shenzhen, this is not the princess of the crowd. | 14:51 |
| SK_work | :D | 14:52 |
| SK_work | the vivaldi looks better | 14:52 |
| Stskeeps | specs aren't bad though | 14:52 |
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| SK_work | specs are good indeed | 14:52 |
| SK_work | at least there is RAM ! | 14:53 |
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| the_mgt | damn that is guly @ubuntu tablet | 14:55 |
| the_mgt | *ugly | 14:55 |
| Stskeeps | and well, if it runs ubuntu touch, it probably runs sailfishos too, though | 14:55 |
| Stskeeps | provided the thing isn't locked down | 14:56 |
| RavenholmDX | Have Jolla said if the tablet will have a 'TOH' element? | 14:56 |
| dr_gogeta86 | Stskeeps, they use a different aproach to phone cameras ? | 14:56 |
| Stskeeps | RavenholmDX: i have something brewing but i don't have enough data to really kickstart that with community yet.. | 14:56 |
| RavenholmDX | oh cool | 14:57 |
| SK_work | Jolla sending mail to remind about shipping perk | 14:57 |
| SK_work | :D | 14:57 |
| dr_gogeta86 | SK_work, i dunno how much i need to pay | 14:57 |
| dr_gogeta86 | I got 2 tabs | 14:57 |
| RavenholmDX | I've already put down my shipping | 14:57 |
| RavenholmDX | it's shipping from China right? | 14:57 |
| stephg | SK_work: ditto, though I did that about 2 hours ago | 14:57 |
| chem|st | dr_gogeta86: have you asked about it? | 14:57 |
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| RavenholmDX | Is there any battery saving apps for Jolla? | 14:58 |
| RavenholmDX | like Greenify on Android | 14:58 |
| the_mgt | RavenholmDX: yes, it is called sailfishos | 14:58 |
| SK_work | dr_gogeta86: :D | 14:59 |
| SK_work | maybe one shipping is enough | 14:59 |
| the_mgt | seriously, for my type of smartphone usage, I wouldn't need any saving apps | 14:59 |
| SK_work | RavenholmDX: what the_mgt said | 14:59 |
| SK_work | my GF have her Jolla at 88% at the end of day when starting with 100% | 14:59 |
| SK_work | so technically > 4 days battery life | 14:59 |
| dr_gogeta86 | great | 15:00 |
| RavenholmDX | SK_work: does she use it at all? :P | 15:00 |
| the_mgt | there is a battery meter app, so you can check which ones drain too much and close them. like Zite (android app) running in background, eats way too much | 15:00 |
| dr_gogeta86 | Mine hate it | 15:00 |
| RavenholmDX | I'm down ~30% today | 15:00 |
| SK_work | RavenholmDX: not heavily, but some calls and SMSes | 15:00 |
| RavenholmDX | with maybe 30 minutes screen on, and 30 minutes of podcast listening | 15:00 |
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| SK_work | mine last easily 1.5 days | 15:00 |
| Toxip | I can't open any Android apps :/ | 15:00 |
| SK_work | heavy twitter heavy sms and calls | 15:00 |
| dr_gogeta86 | I've lost 2% after full charge in 30 minutes | 15:00 |
| the_mgt | RavenholmDX: I use it as a telephone and I check emails with it. some browsing, some other stuff. wifi, bluetooth and gps are always on and I last 2-3 days | 15:01 |
| the_mgt | if I do use navigation for a longer car drive, battery is seriously drained. but in the car you can charge | 15:01 |
| the_mgt | oh and I listen to music while walking/riding the bus, probably 30 minutes a day or so | 15:01 |
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| SK_work | RavenholmDX: note that both my and GF's phone have mails every 15 min and 3G/4G data all the time :) | 15:02 |
| RavenholmDX | I'm the same | 15:02 |
| RavenholmDX | we'll see, I'm still in the 'playing with my new phone' mode | 15:03 |
| the_mgt | yes, what SK_work says. and phone also connects to handsfree set in the car, so some bt usage | 15:03 |
| RavenholmDX | so not a true representation | 15:03 |
| Toxip | anyone else had this bug where android apps just hang? | 15:03 |
| SK_work | RavenholmDX: indeed, playing with phone drains battery :) | 15:03 |
| the_mgt | RavenholmDX: it does depend on your network coverage. if you live in a rural site with bad coverage, network search drains, too | 15:04 |
| SK_work | Toxip: no bug here, but can happen | 15:04 |
| SK_work | install sailifhs-utilities from store | 15:04 |
| SK_work | and use it to relaunch android service | 15:04 |
| the_mgt | Toxip: yep, sometimes some things lock up. but rarely | 15:04 |
| Toxip | i've tried the utilities already... doesn't seem to help :/ | 15:05 |
| chem|st | Toxip: youtube wont start, if another app calls youtube it crashes... | 15:07 |
| chem|st | like that? | 15:07 |
| dr_gogeta86 | gapps stop working | 15:07 |
| Toxip | generally any android app wont start | 15:08 |
| ikarus | hrm, funky, there is one android app that seems to work, but it's videoplayback only works the first few seconds, without sound and at way too high speed | 15:09 |
| ikarus | and sadly it is tied to my internet connection, so people can't even look at it to debug.... | 15:10 |
| Toxip | only 600MB memory is used | 15:10 |
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| coderus | chris__: no i didn't tried it :) | 15:16 |
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| TMavica | coderus: hows ur plan | 15:23 |
| chris__ | SOO i give up-.... 1.1.0.39 + XMPP = Bulls*** | 15:27 |
| chris__ | coderus... i try it... and its not working :( | 15:27 |
| stephg | chris__: when you say not working... | 15:28 |
| chris__ | never :P | 15:28 |
| stephg | won't sign in? says it's signed in but isn't? says it's not signed in but is? | 15:28 |
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| chris__ | stephg, no contacts, no event view, no log in, nothing | 15:29 |
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| stephg | and swipe up to notifications, pulley down to 'show presence details' says you're signed in? | 15:29 |
| chris__ | only a saved account, nothing more | 15:29 |
| stephg | is this XMPP or gtalk? | 15:29 |
| chem|st | chris__: well, I had that too... continously deleting rebooting setting it up solved it at some point | 15:29 |
| chem|st | stephg: xmpp | 15:30 |
| chris__ | stephg, no, absolut no information in event view | 15:30 |
| chris__ | no account listed | 15:30 |
| chris__ | XMPP | 15:30 |
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| SK_work | chris__: tried rebooting after adding an XMPP account ? | 15:30 |
| chem|st | stephg: nothing happens after he setup the account | 15:30 |
| SK_work | mine works here | 15:30 |
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| chem|st | SK_work: yes | 15:30 |
| SK_work | :/ | 15:30 |
| chris__ | i do all tipps :D | 15:30 |
| chris__ | absolut all | 15:30 |
| chris__ | ... think so | 15:31 |
| chem|st | SK_work: he is trying the better part of today to get it working | 15:31 |
| stephg | who is the jabber provider? | 15:31 |
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| chris__ | my own server jabber | 15:31 |
| stephg | xmpp | 15:31 |
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| SK_work | chris__: terminal, go to root | 15:31 |
| SK_work | journalctl -fa | 15:31 |
| SK_work | go to settings, disable the account and reenable it | 15:31 |
| SK_work | check what are the logs | 15:31 |
| the_mgt | chris__: which jabber server? whats the name of the daemon? and do you use an official ssl cert? | 15:32 |
| chris__ | no its open ssl | 15:32 |
| chem|st | chris__: ehrm when it is your server, you see on your server what happens don't you? | 15:32 |
| the_mgt | chris__: self signed certs didn't work for me | 15:32 |
| chem|st | what it does or does not do | 15:32 |
| chris__ | the_mgt, but it haves work n update 8 | 15:33 |
| coderus | TMavica: what you talking about? | 15:33 |
| chris__ | and before | 15:33 |
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| the_mgt | I failed with citadel and openfire | 15:33 |
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| * tbr ponders how jolla marketing missed the whole thing of 128GB cards being sdXc and not sdHc | 15:34 | |
| tbr | *giggles* | 15:34 |
| the_mgt | or they didn't miss it and think "everybody knows sdhc, nobody knows sdxc" | 15:35 |
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| ggabriel | outrageous, humans making mistakes! | 15:35 |
| ggabriel | :P | 15:35 |
| tbr | then they should have just written SD | 15:35 |
| the_mgt | i only know its sdxc because i failed at shopping for a "64gb sdhc" card | 15:36 |
| the_mgt | thought sd means "smaller than 4gb" (my car radio only likes 2gb cards...) and everything bigger was sdhc | 15:36 |
| chris__ | the_mgt, i test openfire before... but change to jabberd, its better | 15:37 |
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| chris__ | in pidgin works ALL perfect... but not with jolla and newest update | 15:38 |
| the_mgt | chris__: and it worked with openfire but now jabberd fails? | 15:38 |
| chris__ | SK_work, i will try it now | 15:38 |
| stephg | your jabberd logs should say what's going on | 15:38 |
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| SK_work | + jabber logs indeed | 15:38 |
| chris__ | the_mgt, no i dont test it with openfire.... it haves work before with jabberd | 15:38 |
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| the_mgt | chris__: I watched a guy developing a jabber client once. he got mad as hell because all the different jabber demons behave differently. some were like hell. and yes, most demons work with pidgin, but pidgin is a huge monster compared to a jabber client on a phone | 15:39 |
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| Jare | i would recommend ejabberd on server side :P | 15:41 |
| chris__ | oh i mean ejabberd | 15:41 |
| chris__ | :P | 15:41 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | ejabberd rocks | 15:43 |
| dr_gogeta86 | tigeli, Stskeeps and others connman guys | 15:44 |
| dr_gogeta86 | is safe to recompile | 15:44 |
| dr_gogeta86 | from git ? | 15:44 |
| stephg | I think tbr did? | 15:45 |
| tbr | dr_gogeta86: yes, worked fine for me | 15:46 |
| tbr | dr_gogeta86: I'd recommend to download the regular RPM and put it into the /root dir or such, so that you can recover easily from recovery console | 15:46 |
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| coderus | connman can malf device? | 15:47 |
| coderus | also connman... | 15:48 |
| dr_gogeta86 | maybe | 15:48 |
| coderus | isn't it recompild to enable 3g only and other modes? | 15:48 |
| tbr | coderus: there's no MALF | 15:48 |
| tbr | not in the aegis way | 15:48 |
| coderus | tbr: yep | 15:48 |
| coderus | just rebooot rebooot | 15:48 |
| tbr | but if you screw up core packages, of course it can b0rk the system... | 15:48 |
| dr_gogeta86 | how to download | 15:48 |
| dr_gogeta86 | zypper ? | 15:48 |
| tbr | IIRC pkcon has an option | 15:48 |
| tbr | the package manager on device is pkcon _not_ zypper | 15:49 |
| coderus | zypper in -f package --download-only | 15:49 |
| coderus | thats only i know:) | 15:49 |
| locusf | the pkcon method is quite unreliable | 15:50 |
| stephg | locusf: ?? | 15:52 |
| coderus | locusf: ?? | 15:52 |
| coderus | oops :D | 15:52 |
| locusf | pkcon download | 15:52 |
| stephg | :D | 15:52 |
| tbr | has worked for me so far | 15:52 |
| coderus | btw | 15:52 |
| coderus | what is env name to set destination folder? | 15:53 |
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| chris__ | coderus, any way to deinstall the icq extantions? | 15:57 |
| coderus | chris__: there are no tricks, deinstall it as usual | 15:58 |
| Toxip | what is the name of the alien dalvik process? can I start it manually from terminal? | 15:59 |
| ggabriel | Toxip: sudo systemctl aliendalvik.service stop/start/restart | 16:00 |
| ggabriel | iirc | 16:00 |
| coderus | Toxip: systemctl stop aliendalvik.service | 16:00 |
| ggabriel | there's an aliendalvik.path that i don't know what it does | 16:00 |
| ggabriel | sorry, coderus is right | 16:00 |
| ggabriel | command comes before the service name | 16:00 |
| coderus | as root | 16:00 |
| Toxip | thanks | 16:01 |
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| coderus | Toxip: install Sailfish Utilities from Store | 16:01 |
| coderus | handy stuff | 16:02 |
| stephg | yeah | 16:02 |
| chris__ | https://paste.kde.org/puxsbzt1m | 16:02 |
| chris__ | journalctl -fa | 16:02 |
| Toxip | coderus: I know but I'm trying this since it didn't seem to work | 16:03 |
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| stephg | chris__: nothing in there looking like presence | 16:03 |
| Toxip | this is rather annoying :( my android apps don't work at all | 16:04 |
| SK_work | chris__: nothing interesting here ... I think you didn't get everything | 16:04 |
| SK_work | ... | 16:04 |
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| chris__ | no i dont stop/start xmpp | 16:06 |
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| chris__ | https://paste.kde.org/plbcjcqvg | 16:07 |
| chris__ | and now ? | 16:07 |
| coderus | Toxip: i had same qust once in a past :D | 16:07 |
| chem|st | me too, uninstalling all android stuff fixed it... | 16:08 |
| coderus | also | 16:08 |
| Toxip | that's a very bad way to fix it though... | 16:08 |
| Toxip | but seems like I have no choice | 16:08 |
| coderus | it takes TIME to load android apps just after loading | 16:08 |
| tigeli | tbr: dr_gogeta86: just remember that everything might not work like you expect eg. "always ask" roaming setting with latest connman :) | 16:09 |
| coderus | and this time bigger if you have a lot of apps | 16:09 |
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| coderus | for me it takes 3-5 minutes to start android app after starting aliendalvik | 16:09 |
| dr_gogeta86 | tigeli, due changes to connman qt on update10 | 16:09 |
| dr_gogeta86 | ? | 16:09 |
| chem|st | coderus: wtf? | 16:09 |
| tigeli | tbr: dr_gogeta86: as there is no.such thing in next update anymore :) | 16:09 |
| chris__ | 3-5 min? holy | 16:09 |
| coderus | chem|st: wtf wtf? | 16:10 |
| tbr | tigeli: obviously, that's sort of part of replacing things in the core :) | 16:10 |
| chem|st | dr_gogeta86: this list does not fit the screen! | 16:10 |
| chem|st | coderus: 3-5 minutes? | 16:10 |
| coderus | chem|st: yep | 16:10 |
| chem|st | something is badly wrong on your end | 16:10 |
| coderus | i'm reading logcat and journalctl | 16:10 |
| coderus | aliendalvik starting many things | 16:10 |
| coderus | before able to load and show my app :) | 16:10 |
| chem|st | google services installed? | 16:11 |
| coderus | yes | 16:11 |
| chris__ | so... no xmpp, no icq... hope jolla brings fast fixes... | 16:11 |
| dr_gogeta86 | tigeli, i just wanna add vpnc to connmann thats all | 16:11 |
| dr_gogeta86 | :-D | 16:11 |
| coderus | google services, amazon, skype, gmail, hangouts, skype and a lot of other crap | 16:11 |
| chem|st | when I stop alienD and tap an android app it takes up to 5 seconds till it shows a loading cover | 16:11 |
| Yaniel | coderus: you forgot skype | 16:11 |
| coderus | Yaniel: it's here | 16:12 |
| chem|st | coderus: ok crap, a lot of crap | 16:12 |
| tigeli | dr_gogeta86: ok.. | 16:12 |
| coderus | chem|st: cover is showed ofc. | 16:12 |
| coderus | but disappeared after 15 seconds | 16:12 |
| coderus | then i tap it again | 16:12 |
| coderus | and again | 16:12 |
| coderus | :D | 16:12 |
| chem|st | coderus: after that it takes the usual amount of time to start the app | 16:12 |
| chem|st | not minutes | 16:12 |
| coderus | :) | 16:12 |
| chem|st | but I don't have $crap installed | 16:12 |
| coderus | :D | 16:13 |
| coderus | i want to have autostart manager working on jolla | 16:13 |
| coderus | but :( | 16:13 |
| chem|st | especially no gmail/hangouts/skype/evil stuff | 16:13 |
| coderus | its not working | 16:13 |
| coderus | none of autostart managers workig on jolla | 16:13 |
| chem|st | coderus: aliendalvik should come up on its own on startup | 16:13 |
| coderus | and i can't find any info how to do it manually without any apps | 16:14 |
| coderus | chem|st: yes i mean android autostart apps | 16:14 |
| chem|st | or do you mean to prevent things from starting? | 16:14 |
| coderus | chem|st: yes | 16:14 |
| coderus | i want to remove some | 16:14 |
| chem|st | ah ok, no idea, every app that uses another android app failed so far, volvo ocean race wants youtube, youtube fails... | 16:15 |
| chem|st | so no VOR on jolla for me | 16:15 |
| coderus | chem|st: it's fixed in u9, isn't it? | 16:15 |
| chem|st | I'd just participate next time... live is always better! | 16:15 |
| chem|st | nope I am at u9 | 16:16 |
| coderus | apps using another apps fixed in u9 for me | 16:16 |
| coderus | no idea about VOR ofc. :D | 16:16 |
| coderus | have to go | 16:16 |
| Acce | humm atleast camera works for me from other apps.. and opening gallery | 16:16 |
| coderus | cya | 16:16 |
| stephg | chris__: I have no idea what's going on with yours but if it's any consolation it looks like thanks to you I have worked out the jabber state problem I've been having | 16:16 |
| chem|st | can you try youtube for me? | 16:16 |
| chem|st | I think it needs google services which I did not install yet | 16:17 |
| chris__ | stephg, its okay... thanks for help... | 16:17 |
| chris__ | ... hope next update will help | 16:17 |
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| chris__ | but now i feeling bad... now i need two more android apps to communicate with friends......... i hate android | 16:18 |
| ggabriel | i hate my friends :P | 16:19 |
| ggabriel | and then i don't need any android app | 16:19 |
| chris__ | ;) | 16:19 |
| stephg | try disabling and re-enabling the jabber account | 16:19 |
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| ikarus | On friends and hatred, anyone know a still working solution for not using Skype, but atleast having text chat with skype people and groups ? (I know why it's not in SalfishOS, stupid Microsoft killing SkypeKit, but still) | 16:20 |
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| chris__ | stephg, nope... dont like anymore... | 16:22 |
| CissWit | i think skype allows you to chaat with msn contacts. So i guess that a working msn client would work to have text chat. I don't know any app but using an irc client + minbif or bitlbee on a server of yours would work | 16:22 |
| chris__ | i spend today to much hour for this.. dont like anymore | 16:22 |
| CissWit | ikarus: ^ | 16:23 |
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| Acce | chem|st: hmm where did you need the youtube? | 16:26 |
| Acce | at least VOR is playing some video for me | 16:26 |
| Acce | without asking to open youtube | 16:27 |
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| ikarus | CissWit: didn't MSN get shut entirely ? | 16:28 |
| ikarus | yup, it has already | 16:30 |
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| suosaaski | ikarus: I thought MSN did a comeback? | 16:38 |
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| chris__ | does anyone have a recommendation which xmpp android program is good (groups chat + data to send) | 16:43 |
| ikarus | suosaaski: I am not seeing anything like that | 16:44 |
| SK_work | suosaaski: MSN's comeback is as a news portal | 16:44 |
| SK_work | and msn apps that replaced bing apps on Windows 8/10 | 16:44 |
| CissWit | ikarus: i can still connect to msn with minbif | 16:45 |
| suosaaski | SK_work: yes. Well, I was not talking about messenger :) | 16:45 |
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| ikarus | ah, yeah, it seems the servers are up, but MSN -> Skype only works on messsages, not group chats | 16:49 |
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| ikarus | *derp* and I forgot to actually order a uSIM | 17:07 |
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| Armadillo | ikarus cut it ;) | 17:11 |
| ikarus | Armadillo: mine is old enough that it still has the two extra pads | 17:11 |
| Armadillo | should be no problem | 17:12 |
| Armadillo | only the nano sim is smaller than the full pad | 17:12 |
| suosaaski | nano sim <3 | 17:13 |
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| ikarus | suosaaski: I'd prefer not to love them | 17:13 |
| suosaaski | like micro sim would not have fit a lumia 1520 <3 | 17:13 |
| ikarus | I need to order a new holder for them for starters | 17:13 |
| ikarus | (I have sims for a bunch of countries I regularly visit) | 17:14 |
| suosaaski | yeah well, as long as ALL new phones would use nano sim it would be ok. But now there is a mix which sucks | 17:14 |
| Armadillo | ikarus mine is also one with the additional pads btw ;) | 17:14 |
| Raim | Armadillo: cutting down a mini SIM to micro SIM for the Jolla is a delicate topic. you need to make sure to cut exact enough to trigger the micro switch at the SIM holder. | 17:14 |
| chem|st | Acce: playstore youtube does not work and I do not have google services installed afaik, so s/o with gServices might try youtube then | 17:14 |
| chem|st | VOR asked me for youtube in the topmost first item when you open the app | 17:15 |
| Armadillo | Raim did it several times for Jolla and other pones without a template | 17:15 |
| Armadillo | phones | 17:15 |
| Armadillo | all of them worked | 17:15 |
| Armadillo | ;) | 17:16 |
| chem|st | chris__: if there are any... let me know^^ | 17:16 |
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| ikarus | Armadillo: It's risky to recommend, but I know it can be done with some care | 17:18 |
| chem|st | Raim: and that is a problem where? | 17:18 |
| chris__ | chem|st, conversations looks good | 17:19 |
| chem|st | if people use scissors for it they are just meant to fail... just note that the cut corner has to be pretty exact | 17:19 |
| Armadillo | ikarus well, if you either have to order a new sim, you can also try tu cut it correct instead of paying money for a new one ;) | 17:20 |
| chris__ | chem|st, cost 1,99€ .... no problem for me, but want spend coderus this money for same app for sailfish ;) | 17:20 |
| chem|st | chris__: I tried like 10 xmpp apps on my tablet, recommended by opensource websites and none of them where satisfying in any way | 17:20 |
| ikarus | Armadillo: would be shipped at no cost and beiong out of a phone for most people is meh | 17:20 |
| Raim | chem|st: when I first used a self-made micro SIM in the Jolla it was quite unreliable and often reporting the SIM was removed. never happened with a real micro SIM. | 17:20 |
| ikarus | chem|st: I am pretty sure XMPP apps all suck, except for bitlbee, because it isn't one :P | 17:20 |
| chem|st | Raim: there have been peopl with a manufactured sim having those problems too | 17:21 |
| ikarus | (and no, I'm not recommending IRC on your phone either) | 17:21 |
| chem|st | there is a native irc client ;) | 17:21 |
| chem|st | but I doubt it is able to transfer files | 17:21 |
| chris__ | irc? there is a veeerry nice sailfish app | 17:21 |
| chem|st | indeed! | 17:22 |
| ikarus | chem|st: well, bitlbee is able to do that, so if the IRC side of it supports it | 17:22 |
| chris__ | chem|st, you try conversations app too ` | 17:22 |
| chem|st | only unpaid | 17:22 |
| chris__ | and not good ? | 17:22 |
| ikarus | I'm pondering tinkering with the Telepathy group chat functionality one of these days, I mean not that Telepathy is much use these days now that it's mostly just xmpp, but still | 17:23 |
| ikarus | there is no UI for it on SailfishOS, but the infrastructure is there | 17:23 |
| chem|st | none of the tested do filetransfer and groupchat just the way you want | 17:23 |
| chem|st | chatsecure looks nice but filetransfer is/was limited to encrypted conversations... | 17:23 |
| chris__ | and works with own ejabberd server ? | 17:24 |
| chem|st | try! I have no idea | 17:24 |
| ikarus | btw, any must have applications I need to look at that I might have missed ? | 17:24 |
| chem|st | ikarus: ? | 17:24 |
| chem|st | ikarus: scroll the store... test things you don't know | 17:25 |
| ikarus | chem|st: just setting up my phone now it arrived :) | 17:25 |
| Armadillo | http://www.penguinfriends.org/gallery/plugins/download_by_size/action.php?id=1966&part=e&size=large | 17:25 |
| chem|st | ah | 17:25 |
| Armadillo | this is mine ;) | 17:25 |
| Armadillo | cut with scissors :) | 17:27 |
| chris__ | CODERUS: How much must we'll donations so you program us a full XMPP app? | 17:27 |
| chris__ | :D | 17:27 |
| chem|st | ikarus: I like Fahrplan, TaskList, MeeCast, CargoDock, VLC Remote, upnpplayer, Recorder, Music Library, CodeReader, Sidudict, Screenshot, IRC, and so on | 17:28 |
| chem|st | chris__: wrong question! | 17:29 |
| ikarus | chris__: I'll do it for 15k, anyone want to bid less ? :P | 17:29 |
| chris__ | lol | 17:29 |
| Armadillo | ikarus 15k italian lira is quite cheap :P | 17:29 |
| chris__ | 15k sand corns.... sure you get it :D | 17:29 |
| ikarus | euro ofcourse | 17:29 |
| Armadillo | :D | 17:29 |
| chem|st | chris__: anyone programing messaging apps not unified with the system should be stoned/feathered or something BUT Jolla is to blame first over all! | 17:30 |
| Armadillo | chem|st +1 | 17:30 |
| ikarus | chem|st: I'd probably use the groupchat extensions and such for Telepathy | 17:30 |
| ikarus | they do exist | 17:30 |
| ikarus | so you can make a unified system for it | 17:31 |
| ikarus | But yes, the lack of integrated SIP, etc is a bit upsetting to me aswell | 17:31 |
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| chris__ | +1 | 17:32 |
| chem|st | Jolla is pretty stupid in this regard... what does a system buggy or not, bring to people if basic things are not working or are so limited that you are forced to use android alternatives (which makes developers less fast as "use android for now") | 17:32 |
| ikarus | But it's currently at about point 6 of app development for me as all the stuff I need /myself/ right now works, but I've previously used it, so I know there is a need | 17:33 |
| ikarus | Luckily Python + PyOtherSide makes development a breeze | 17:34 |
| chris__ | I could live with laggs, if only that would give appropriate programs and functions. If I had really no problem | 17:34 |
| chem|st | and missing SIP is so very annoying, as is here maps not being offline... | 17:34 |
| ikarus | chem|st: maps offline is not my forte, but SIP seems to be doable, the infrastructure and backend are packaged, so it's just hijacking frontend stuff | 17:35 |
| ikarus | extending XMPP might end up being similar | 17:35 |
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| chris__ | I also think that makes at least one approach. The source then are free and the community could possibly work wieter. | 17:35 |
| chem|st | not really, I don't get it to work with my provider, last time I checked | 17:35 |
| ikarus | chem|st: we'll see, I've still got my test SIP server at home, so I can just poke at it :) | 17:36 |
| ikarus | But I've got sillier apps to write first, ones I particularly need | 17:36 |
| chem|st | well good luck then | 17:36 |
| ikarus | (which I knew I had to go port due to being too particular) | 17:36 |
| chris__ | chem|st, you remember the video... you can see the dialer... there swipe to right to change to SIP | 17:37 |
| chem|st | I stopped to care at some point... I am waiting for my crazyflie to be delivered so I have something to tinker with | 17:37 |
| chem|st | but the mobile client is so android specific that I doubt that with my skilllevel there will be any good | 17:38 |
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| ikarus | I have to say btw, the experience of using SailfishOS is so much nicer then any android phone..... it's ridiculous | 17:39 |
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| Armadillo | :) | 17:41 |
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| Armadillo | it would be even better with more well designed native apps | 17:41 |
| ikarus | I have a HTC One X lying around here, it's laggy and glitchy in the UI, wow | 17:41 |
| ikarus | Armadillo: I'm hoping to live up to that, but well, I am not a UX designer :P | 17:42 |
| Armadillo | I really hope they update the here maps soon, traffic would be really helpful for example | 17:42 |
| ikarus | I am hoping the public transport companies here continue with their opendata stuff | 17:43 |
| ikarus | currently stuck with the Android app if I want realtime stuff added in | 17:43 |
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| ikarus | My private UI annoyance is just the fact apps can't be pinned in any way shape or form to create a default overview screen of all your important stuff | 17:45 |
| ikarus | But I know why that decision exists | 17:46 |
| stephg | ikarus: that was being looked at I thought | 17:46 |
| stephg | pinning apps on the homescreen | 17:46 |
| ikarus | stephg: yeah, but I get where the original decision came from and understand it from a UX engineering perspective | 17:46 |
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| stephg | but you disagree? | 17:47 |
| ikarus | for personal reasons, yes, but I know I am not the norm in those | 17:47 |
| ikarus | btw, one thing for developing apps I was wondering, in Android you can hijack arbitrary URLs and tie them into applications, anything like that possible on SailfishOS ? | 17:47 |
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| stephg | you mean like, e.g. bitcoin:// and such? | 17:48 |
| SK_work | ikarus: not | 17:49 |
| SK_work | not ATM I guess | 17:49 |
| dunp | vote to bitcoin:// | 17:49 |
| ikarus | stephg: not just the scheme, just any part really is doable on Android, you can grab http://example.com there if you wanted | 17:49 |
| ikarus | or .randomextension | 17:50 |
| stephg | really? what perms do you need? I mean scheme/protocol is one thing, but intercepting everything, that sounds a bit dangerous to me | 17:50 |
| ikarus | It allows dedicated apps to easily take over when the webbrowser stops being a decent UI experiences | 17:50 |
| ikarus | -s | 17:50 |
| ikarus | stephg: nothing special, Android is weird like that | 17:50 |
| stephg | but the user needs to OK something going 'this app will steal your children etc.' | 17:51 |
| stephg | I'm just curious how they justify that to the user | 17:51 |
| ikarus | stephg: well, in general it will pop up with all the apps that can handle it, so that would tend to be the webbrowser and some specific app | 17:52 |
| ikarus | And you can chose "always use" | 17:52 |
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| ikarus | which then stores the association | 17:52 |
| SK_work | I like this functionnality actually | 17:53 |
| stephg | ikarus: aha, gotcha | 17:53 |
| chris__ | CYA | 17:53 |
| ikarus | I like it as well, when used with care, hence I was wondering if it existed on SailfishOS as I had seen no app using it | 17:53 |
| AL13N | ok, so the 1.5M mark is set, but... a quick calculation shows that we need to sell ALL the jolla tablets left (696) + ALL the cases (1588) + 1 microdistributor kit and then we're still short 1303 in donations... :-( | 17:53 |
| stephg | ikarus: dunno how it would work in the browser | 17:54 |
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| AL13N | i don't see it coming, tbh... | 17:54 |
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| ikarus | stephg: by using dbus to signal itself to go to the next page, you can then interrupt that and handle it otherwise I guess | 17:55 |
| Tegu | so, desktop-like file/uri association | 17:55 |
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| ikarus | Tegu: no, it works "everywhere" in Android's case (because of the whole intent mechanism) | 17:55 |
| ikarus | but guess what, dbus has that concept as well | 17:55 |
| ikarus | desktop stuff only tends to work when programs actively look for another program to run, while on Android it can be used to redirect stuff the program might otherwise have handled itself (in another part of itself) | 17:57 |
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| Tegu | oh | 18:00 |
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| coderus | must have: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1838401618/plan-v-the-failsafe-charger-you-cant-leave-home-wi | 18:39 |
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| nander | coderus: name is the same as a really old dutch train type ;) | 18:49 |
| nander | Production started in 1964, some of them still running ;) | 18:49 |
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| nander | Slow, crappy, uncomfortable, but reliable | 18:50 |
| ikarus | I have a charger that eats AA's, which is only slightly larger | 18:50 |
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| nander | I had a bulky one on me while interrailing (I just returned) | 18:53 |
| nander | Worked fine | 18:53 |
| nander | The better alternative: don't use your phone that much | 18:54 |
| nander | Be social | 18:54 |
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| r0kk3rz | with a bit of effort im sure you could hack together something like that yourself | 19:01 |
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| Obi-Lan | hmm jolla has troubles to dispatch my phone | 19:03 |
| Obi-Lan | not enough whipping at sweat shop | 19:05 |
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| ikarus | Obi-Lan: it took them a week to find mine in the warehouse | 19:07 |
| Obi-Lan | I put my order at last weekend | 19:08 |
| Obi-Lan | maybe next week then | 19:08 |
| chem|st | so... Jolla has had a stretch goal for microSDHC up to 128GB, don't eat me alive please... just from semantics this is plain wrong, but as it is plain wrong it could also mean reformatting >32gb to btrfs on the device... so they could just offer paid exFAT to those who want/need it, right? | 19:11 |
| Obi-Lan | you think exfat would be only patented thing on that board? | 19:12 |
| chem|st | coderus: already ordered one :) | 19:12 |
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| chem|st | 9V batteries should be easy to find right? | 19:13 |
| chem|st | ikarus: slightly larger? you need 4AA batteries how is that only slightly larger? | 19:14 |
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| ikarus | chem|st: no, you need only one and a boost converter | 19:16 |
| chem|st | ikarus: ok thats nice | 19:17 |
| r0kk3rz | i think people need to get over it, exfat compatibillity is good for jolla as a business | 19:17 |
| chem|st | Obi-Lan: nope I don't, but as it is microsoft, this aint gona be cheap | 19:18 |
| chem|st | r0kk3rz: honestly most others don't even have a sd-slot... | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | chem|st: i think the "HC" is a bit of a typo | 19:18 |
| ikarus | chem|st: the issue is that the SD license agreement requires that if you support over 32GB you need to support the full SDXC spec and that includes exFAT | 19:19 |
| Obi-Lan | they cannot even say sdxc if they don't pay | 19:19 |
| Stskeeps | and no, paid exfat isn't feasible | 19:19 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: a typo stays on for how long? | 19:19 |
| Obi-Lan | so it would be confusing mystery | 19:19 |
| Stskeeps | chem|st: surprisingily long.. i should have pushed that but i got caught up in exfat messaging | 19:19 |
| ikarus | and well, the solution HTC and most others picked is obvious, they just removed the SD slot to avoid this issue amongst others | 19:19 |
| chem|st | lol | 19:19 |
| Stskeeps | ikarus: yeah.. | 19:19 |
| chem|st | true but as on of the rare tablets this just made ~10k revenue, compared to 1.5M beforehand | 19:20 |
| r0kk3rz | Stskeeps: its not feasable? then why are we even bothering with the discussion | 19:20 |
| chem|st | as "one" of | 19:20 |
| Obi-Lan | maybe try to convince sd association to choose another format in next standard or complain EU that MS is restricting competition | 19:20 |
| RavenholmDX | what's the chances the tablet hits the second stretch goal? | 19:20 |
| RavenholmDX | 250k seems like a big ask in 5 days | 19:21 |
| Obi-Lan | but nonsense to make one small manufacturer go against current | 19:21 |
| ikarus | Obi-Lan: The SD association will just point at MMC and mention that the lack of 128GB on those to be due to "market forces" | 19:21 |
| chem|st | Obi-Lan: the complain to EU is actually a pretty good idea | 19:21 |
| r0kk3rz | Stskeeps: wait, nevermind, you mean the extra paid on demand exfat | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | r0kk3rz: aye | 19:22 |
| ikarus | chem|st: see my mention, they covered their asses by allowing MMC to continue existing, all manufacturers in the SD group also make them, so they can be certain that they will continue to be around | 19:22 |
| ikarus | and MMC is actually somewhat competitive, in the low end | 19:22 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: do you know another tab with exfat/sdxc? | 19:24 |
| ikarus | chem|st: no one has licensed it for use with Android as far is known, although it is being offered on the market to producers | 19:24 |
| ikarus | chem|st: actually a company pretty much nextdoor to Jolla licenses a working stack for exFAT on Linux | 19:24 |
| Stskeeps | chem|st: if there's none, i just see opportunity.. | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | then again, many tablets don't have sd slots? | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:25 |
| ikarus | I would rather see that money to take Microsoft and SD Assoc to court | 19:25 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: that is what I thought, would make good marketing but well your marketing folks screw up alot so better don't bother ;) | 19:25 |
| ikarus | Stskeeps: largely because of this.... | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | oh, right, microsoft surface obviously has it | 19:26 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:26 |
| Obi-Lan | my dell venue 8 pro has microsd | 19:26 |
| chem|st | Obi-Lan: SDXC | 19:26 |
| Stskeeps | xperia tablet s supposedly | 19:26 |
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| Obi-Lan | hmm usb bluetooth dong made my desktop crash regularly, how nice | 19:27 |
| Obi-Lan | dongle | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | ikarus: i don't remotely like software patents or forcing paid filesystems through standards; don't get me wrong | 19:28 |
| chem|st | blutooth crashes on first attempt to start it during boot... that is normal for me atm, same for cryptsetup | 19:28 |
| chem|st | some systemd things aren't right yet | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | all that's being explained is the rather crazy situation in mobile business | 19:28 |
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| Stskeeps | now, if the offer had been a ssd inside the thing.. :)~~~~~ | 19:29 |
| ikarus | Stskeeps: or just 1TB of eMMC | 19:29 |
| r0kk3rz | better for the big players to push for open standards, im sure sammy and goggle dont like paying ms for patent licences either | 19:29 |
| Obi-Lan | not too much junk or its gonna be haevy | 19:29 |
| Obi-Lan | heavy | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | r0kk3rz: pick your battles carefully.. it's already hard enough to ship a device with a non-android os | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | IMH | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | O | 19:30 |
| r0kk3rz | Stskeeps: +1, you guys are punching well above your weight as is | 19:30 |
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| Obi-Lan | jolla isnt in any strong economical state | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | how was it, android almost went bankrupt? | 19:30 |
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| Stskeeps | well, android inc. | 19:32 |
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| Obi-Lan | then google bought it? | 19:32 |
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| Stskeeps | after bringing 10k usd in a paperbag or something like that.. | 19:33 |
| Obi-Lan | and now its worlds most clever spying machine :) | 19:34 |
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| nander | By the way, how long till next software update? | 19:40 |
| nander | Wasn't there supposed to be one in november? | 19:40 |
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| Stskeeps | https://together.jolla.com/question/68125/official-announcement-current-status-of-update10/ | 19:49 |
| Obi-Lan | well tomorrow is indepence day | 19:51 |
| Obi-Lan | any true patriot is not going to be working :) | 19:51 |
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| Hartzi | no one is going to work wihout double salary tomorrow :P | 19:55 |
| ikarus | hmz, I should paint my white other half, wonder what would work best | 19:55 |
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| Stskeeps | ikarus: somebody had their kid paint one | 19:56 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:56 |
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| Obi-Lan | wonder if its actually 4x salary | 19:56 |
| Obi-Lan | or just double | 19:56 |
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| Hartzi | never heard about 4x salary | 19:57 |
| ikarus | Stskeeps: well, I have the blue default ambiance on right now and jealous of the painting on that | 19:57 |
| r0kk3rz | Obi-Lan: independance day for which country? | 19:57 |
| Obi-Lan | finland | 19:58 |
| r0kk3rz | oh cool | 19:58 |
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| Obi-Lan | mm yes 4x was some kind of brain fart | 20:00 |
| r0kk3rz | ikarus: i still want to 3d print one and cover it with red sugru | 20:01 |
| zutto | 4x salary does exist in funland | 20:01 |
| zutto | for example, security guards who do overtime can get even more :P | 20:01 |
| ikarus | r0kk3rz: heh | 20:01 |
| Obi-Lan | yeah but you need to do over time + special holiday at night etc | 20:01 |
| ikarus | I am trying to see if someone has done a nice ambiance with a milkyway background or the like | 20:01 |
| ikarus | So I can feel slightly less jealous | 20:02 |
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| Stskeeps | http://jollawalls.com/ | 20:02 |
| Stskeeps | http://jollawalls.com/media/day-ot-the-tentacle was mine for quite a while | 20:05 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:05 |
| tigeli | Hartzi: salary? this is my hobby :D | 20:06 |
| ikarus | awww, someone recreated digital nature | 20:07 |
| ikarus | haven't seen the other N900 theme though :( | 20:07 |
| Stskeeps | tigeli: i really wish that wasn't the truth.. :P | 20:08 |
| tigeli | :D | 20:08 |
| nander | My background isn't open source, so I can't share the file itself | 20:08 |
| nander | http://www.music-ark.ru/upload/iblock/0ee/0ee5b8892a9827f039be4b1f9720176b.jpg | 20:09 |
| nander | I have a shaped version of this album cover | 20:09 |
| Stskeeps | has ambience really worked as to make it feel much more personalized phone, ooi? | 20:10 |
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| nander | To me it's just marketing | 20:10 |
| ikarus | Stskeeps: I haven't had a phone I couldn't customize | 20:10 |
| nander | It's pretty much a standard option to change your background and ringtones | 20:11 |
| ikarus | so for me it's a normal step | 20:11 |
| nander | having them linked isn't a big deal in my opinion | 20:11 |
| Hartzi | tigeli: recreated where? | 20:11 |
| ikarus | nander: nah, the fact it also changes UI colours, yes please | 20:11 |
| ikarus | on Android, the horrible blues are sickening | 20:11 |
| nander | You can test out images and see which ones give the nice colours | 20:11 |
| nander | Sometimes you have an awesome background, but your UI turns pink | 20:11 |
| the_mgt | bah, the ambience feature. that was a bit of marketing that totally failed | 20:11 |
| nander | It's a good idea, but just like the other halves, it was a great idea, but jolla just put it out there and did nothing with it | 20:12 |
| nander | Like, the tablet doesn't even feature the other half | 20:12 |
| ikarus | the_mgt: yeah, that | 20:12 |
| the_mgt | sadly, yes | 20:12 |
| Stskeeps | (yet?) | 20:13 |
| ikarus | but for me changing the UI around is normal | 20:13 |
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| nander | And the performance seems to be getting worse with each and every update | 20:13 |
| the_mgt | I would have loved if ambience did something more than ringtone level and images | 20:13 |
| the_mgt | like, disable certain email accounts so I can switch of job related accounts on holidays/weekends | 20:14 |
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| Stskeeps | nander: some of that may actually be your filesystem's fault, fwiw | 20:14 |
| nander | I have a new phone | 20:14 |
| nander | Because my old one was stolen | 20:14 |
| nander | I bought a new one like 3 weeks ago | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | nod | 20:14 |
| nander | Are you telling me my filesystem was broken out of the factory? | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | i said 'may' :) | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | anyhow, remembered a lock code on this one? | 20:15 |
| nander | ? | 20:15 |
| Stskeeps | ah, may not have been you but somebody spoke about not wanting the device to be useful anymore if stolen | 20:15 |
| the_mgt | Stskeeps: yes, remotely nuling the device would be nice | 20:17 |
| the_mgt | mission impossible style... | 20:17 |
| the_mgt | *nuking | 20:17 |
| Stskeeps | i operate with the assumption that i should be able to forget my phone in a bar and not worry | 20:17 |
| special | (remote wipe is the wrong answer to this problem!) | 20:19 |
| Obi-Lan | how about code which you need to enter every 15mins or device self-destructs | 20:19 |
| the_mgt | enforcing a lock code might help. apple does that successfully. police here claims that lost iphones are more often returned than any other phone | 20:19 |
| Obi-Lan | would less convient at night | 20:19 |
| nander | My jolla was thrown to the trash probably | 20:20 |
| nander | Because you can't resell it online | 20:20 |
| nander | I kept track of ebay, marktplaats.nl and other online sales sites for three months, every day | 20:20 |
| the_mgt | (ithings are also remotely trackable, lockable and deletable, so they are often returned to the police when found on the street) | 20:20 |
| nander | Remote locking is essential to me in a way | 20:21 |
| nander | And just fubar the filesystem | 20:21 |
| nander | Just totally block the device | 20:21 |
| nander | Except for phonecalls from owner | 20:21 |
| nander | And specific messages | 20:21 |
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| nander | Oh and it should tell it's position every hor | 20:21 |
| nander | hour* | 20:21 |
| Obi-Lan | how about the prey software | 20:21 |
| Obi-Lan | and pin lock screen | 20:21 |
| Mirv | the_mgt: agree on would-be-nice getting ambience attached to more settings. like silent mode, chat network settings, enabling whitelist of allowed call etc | 20:22 |
| the_mgt | Mirv: yes, whitelist for calls... my nokia 6310 was able to do that 1997 | 20:22 |
| nander | And even automatically switching between ambiences at certain time | 20:22 |
| the_mgt | 17 years ago... | 20:22 |
| nander | times* | 20:22 |
| Mirv | so that my "night" mode for example would be what I'd like it to be. currently I don't actually use the night ambience, since I just mute the phone from the pulldown menu instead. | 20:23 |
| nander | Motorola assist allows you to do just about that on motorola android phones | 20:23 |
| the_mgt | nander: yep, or based on wifi/cell phone antenna/gps | 20:23 |
| nander | I love my motorola assist | 20:23 |
| nander | It turns my phone silent when I have an appointment | 20:23 |
| nander | And during night | 20:23 |
| nander | Except when contact AND second call within 5 minutes | 20:23 |
| japa-fi | how do I mount jolla with simple-mtpfs ? | 20:23 |
| Mirv | the_mgt: not in 1997 I think, since I got my new 1611 in 1997 and 6310 only two years later if I'm not incorrect. | 20:23 |
| nander | So if my dad calls me at 01:20 and at 01:22 it's probably serious | 20:24 |
| nander | It could even be a more strict list | 20:24 |
| Mirv | the_mgt: yup, actually many years later, it seems 6310 got introduced in 2011 | 20:24 |
| Obi-Lan | lumia & exchange, I can remote wipe trough exchange and device will wipe it self after 8 wrong pin codes | 20:24 |
| Mirv | nander: sounds like a nice feature indeed | 20:24 |
| nander | And not actually too difficult to implement | 20:25 |
| Mirv | the_mgt: 2001, that is :D | 20:25 |
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| nander | I love the small touches motorola added to android | 20:25 |
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| the_mgt | Mirv: hm, then the version before that one, the one with the antenna | 20:25 |
| the_mgt | the firmware had the same features | 20:25 |
| Mirv | the_mgt: ah I'm also mixing up. yes, Nokia 6110, that's what I had after 1611 but I only got it maybe 1999. | 20:26 |
| nander | But fundamentally I don't get android | 20:26 |
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| nander | I don't get why there has to be both a gallery and a photos app | 20:27 |
| nander | And why like 5 play.* apps | 20:27 |
| nander | 6* | 20:27 |
| nander | I don't want to play games on my phone | 20:27 |
| the_mgt | Mirv: 6130, I had E-plus and needed gsm 1800 | 20:27 |
| nander | In fact, my phone specification is quite narrow | 20:28 |
| Mirv | the_mgt: oh, 1800, advanced | 20:28 |
| nander | It has to call, sms, whatsapp, fb message, email | 20:28 |
| nander | And quassel | 20:28 |
| nander | Apart from that, railway planning, dutch (online) and europe (offline) | 20:28 |
| nander | The last feature was for me the reason to take my android with me instead | 20:28 |
| the_mgt | nander: my assumption is, that they rebrand everything play.* in order to nuke the "android" label at some point | 20:28 |
| nander | It took me to long to install railplanner app on jolla | 20:28 |
| nander | Railplanner is awesome, we need an alternative | 20:29 |
| nander | Offline planner for the entirety of europe | 20:29 |
| the_mgt | nander: have you checked openrepos/warehouse "store"? I thought there was some nl railroad app | 20:30 |
| nander | Didn't work nicely | 20:30 |
| nander | And it's just NL rail, not also bus network | 20:31 |
| nander | I'd love to get the bus network as well | 20:31 |
| nander | gpg failure?? | 20:32 |
| the_mgt | "only" some ID thing | 20:33 |
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| nander | fahrplan is almost a totally awesome app | 20:46 |
| nander | It lacks one feature | 20:46 |
| nander | when using the 9292ov.nl backend it doesn't show which bus number you have to take | 20:47 |
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| chem|st | nander: tell the maintainer | 20:59 |
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| chem|st | for the ambience discussion we got a "wait for it" about 9 months ago... I expected it to be some kind of profilematic awesome settings umbrella based on location/situation/mood but well, we are one year in and are still missing working basic functionality... | 21:01 |
| chem|st | or stable basic functionalities | 21:02 |
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| anYc | does anyone use a permission remove tool for android apps? | 21:06 |
| chem|st | a friend of mine was wondering why jolla invented the wheel "again" wasn't maemo4>5>6+meego enough inventive energy wasted | 21:06 |
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| Aard | well, we used almost everything we could from meego times... | 21:08 |
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| chem|st | Aard: I know, but the move away from the debian base lost you many developers | 21:08 |
| japa-fi | anYc, is there such a tool? I was about to install speedtest.net but the darn thing wants to see my phonebook or contacts (or some such) which I cannot figure any reason for.... Decided not to install. | 21:09 |
| chem|st | with maemo->meego already | 21:09 |
| Aard | chem|st: "waaah, it's not .deb" is a rather stupid reason for going away | 21:09 |
| chem|st | japa-fi: speedof.me works reliable in the browser | 21:09 |
| japa-fi | chem|st, I found one that didn't invade my privacy. Used it to validate my home network QoS settings and removed. | 21:10 |
| chem|st | Aard: was more about the split of the community and changing the core system at the same time | 21:10 |
| chem|st | wasn't you, was some idiot at nokia | 21:11 |
| japa-fi | I have private wlan and open wlan. I've limited the open wlan to 2Mbit/sec | 21:11 |
| tigeli | Aard: some people tend to like debian-way of doing random numbers ;) | 21:11 |
| Aard | I personally think the move to rpm was good, and in the longterm we should move on to a custom designed package management system more suitable for mobile devices | 21:11 |
| japa-fi | I mean 2Mbytes/sec | 21:12 |
| japa-fi | or was it bits.. Too many drinks.. | 21:12 |
| anYc | japa-fi: on tjc someone recommended http://www.plop.at/de/android/permission-remover.html but some apps don't work without all requested permissions | 21:12 |
| chem|st | Aard: and "wah it's not debian" is a pretty good reason to leave, the debian people are so used to having everything served to them that living outside of that box is first of all a security risk | 21:13 |
| tigeli | japa-fi: there netradar on jolla store | 21:14 |
| tigeli | there is | 21:14 |
| japa-fi | tigeli: Didn't come up with "speed test" search :). Used something from aptoid | 21:14 |
| Aard | some debian developers are a security risk. like those patching cryptographic bits :p | 21:14 |
| tigeli | japa-fi: netradar is native one ;) | 21:15 |
| japa-fi | Yeah, I prefer native ones. | 21:15 |
| tbr | or those insisting on disabling openssl in packages because of a narrow licence interpretation | 21:15 |
| chem|st | Aard: true, but as if that did not happen elsewhere too | 21:15 |
| ikarus | Aard: the Deb vs RPM stuff *sigh* I just wish we could get crossplatform packages though, so a single file or link can install either ARM or x86 version, ahead of the tablet being released | 21:16 |
| tigeli | Aard: huh.. isn't it ok to remove everything that valgrind complains= ;) | 21:16 |
| RavenholmDX | What's a good linux web browser? | 21:16 |
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| chem|st | I know that debian is like a huge company in terms of buerocracy... hindering... | 21:16 |
| tbr | ikarus: I build deb and RPM packages for >20 distributions on OBS from one set of sources and packaging, it's not thaaat bad and redundant work is limited to a minimum | 21:17 |
| * Aard personally moved away from debian for everything but some servers now. currently opensuse, but those guys are pissing me off now and then as well (latest: that wicked thing for networking I don't want), so I guess longterm I'll go back to spending time to making sailfish a full desktop distribution for my needs (already did that back in meego times) | 21:18 | |
| chem|st | ikarus: wasn't there an attempt to do architectural independent packaging? | 21:18 |
| ikarus | tbr: OBS ? | 21:18 |
| tigeli | Aard: gentoo! :D | 21:18 |
| chem|st | Aard: yes please, one to rule them all | 21:18 |
| tbr | Open Build System | 21:18 |
| ikarus | chem|st: I haven't seen it | 21:18 |
| chem|st | ikarus: gentoo... | 21:19 |
| Aard | chem|st: you might not be satisfied with what I think is required for a desktop, though | 21:19 |
| chem|st | Aard: fvwm? | 21:19 |
| ikarus | tbr: the point is, I want users to be able to ignore which package they exactly need when picking software, even from external sources | 21:19 |
| tbr | boot to emacs | 21:19 |
| chem|st | tbr: what else would you do with emacs | 21:19 |
| tbr | ikarus: this does the reverse, it builds packages for every distribution | 21:19 |
| Aard | chem|st: ion3 + emacs + firefox + terminal | 21:20 |
| tigeli | tbr: what else do you need.. :) through I tend to run some browser which can show graphics ;) | 21:20 |
| Obi-Lan | one more standard plz | 21:20 |
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| chem|st | Aard: isn't ion dead? I still have it on my netbook but I thought it is dead? | 21:20 |
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| ikarus | tbr: yeah, that is the easy option, but I prefer the inverse for user ease | 21:20 |
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| tbr | ikarus: you'll find that a less than pleasing experience, once you try it out | 21:21 |
| tbr | rpmfind *cough* *cough* | 21:21 |
| ikarus | tbr: no, I want to AVOID that disaster | 21:21 |
| Aard | chem|st: well, it does everything I need. only problem was multiple displays when xorg dropped xinerama bits, but I hacked the xinerama module to support xrandr over lunch when that happened | 21:21 |
| ikarus | tbr: that is exactly why I want a single .rpm file for both x86 and arm | 21:21 |
| chem|st | Aard: so it is dead? | 21:22 |
| tbr | ikarus: ok, what about armv7l vs armv7hl vs aarch64 | 21:22 |
| ikarus | tbr: yes, I'd want a single distributable for those | 21:22 |
| Aard | chem|st: I prefer "unmaintained". it still works :p | 21:22 |
| chem|st | Aard: the followup is awesome? also lua? | 21:22 |
| Aard | ? | 21:23 |
| ikarus | tbr: it doesn't have to INSTALL all of them, just distribute with all of them included or via some discovery mechanism | 21:23 |
| chem|st | Aard: yeah I would not want anything else on my netbook | 21:23 |
| ikarus | Aard: heh, I am still on Sawfish, which is slightly more maintained then ion3, but only slightly | 21:23 |
| Aard | what do you mean by followup? | 21:23 |
| tbr | ikarus: you do realize that you'd end up with massive distributables, people are rather unhappy with that stuff on osx | 21:23 |
| chem|st | Aard: I don't remember the name of what came after ion3, also tile display | 21:23 |
| ikarus | tbr: well, we can also use some discovery mechanism instead, but that requires more work | 21:23 |
| Aard | well, there are several tiled window managers | 21:23 |
| * tbr uses awesome nowadays | 21:24 | |
| Aard | I'm currently a bit worried about wayland, though. I think there is one tiling compositor out there, but I'm quite attached to how ion does things, plus I have a bunch of custom lua scripts for the status display | 21:24 |
| ikarus | tbr: for me package size is an ignorable factor, but internet is good and cheap around here | 21:24 |
| chem|st | Aard: yeah awesome and it is also lua | 21:25 |
| chem|st | Aard: I have like 6 layers of keyboard setup for tile management and navigation | 21:25 |
| Yaniel | wayland is hardly going to get tiling compositors until it gets actually used on desktops | 21:25 |
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| Aard | I need to find a good mapping for "switch between desktops" again. used to have that bound on windows key, but I moved back to a keyboard without windows keys | 21:26 |
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| chem|st | too many things depend on x for now | 21:26 |
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| chem|st | Aard: I switch layouts with capslock... | 21:28 |
| Aard | I don't have capslock | 21:28 |
| Aard | that's where control is supposed to be | 21:28 |
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| chem|st | well what key can you spare for something like that? do you have things like scrolllock? | 21:29 |
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| chem|st | what the heck is that a kbd? no meta an no capslock? | 21:30 |
| Aard | yes, but it's quite far to travel for an operation done often | 21:30 |
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| chem|st | I'd abandone one shift key | 21:31 |
| Aard | like I said, capslock is remapped to control, left control is compose | 21:31 |
| Aard | I'm using both shift keys, though | 21:31 |
| chem|st | you have a kbd that small it does not have meta nor caps but scroll is far away? | 21:31 |
| chem|st | ah remapped | 21:31 |
| Aard | meta == alt? | 21:32 |
| chem|st | ah super it is | 21:32 |
| Aard | super would be windows keys, which I don't have | 21:32 |
| chem|st | and you have left and right control as compose? | 21:32 |
| Yaniel | super is awesome for shortcuts | 21:32 |
| chem|st | and meta as? | 21:32 |
| chem|st | also left and right | 21:32 |
| Aard | right control is free, but it's a bit uncomfortable. I'd prefer left hand for that :p | 21:33 |
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| chem|st | hmm... what about shift-compose | 21:33 |
| Aard | hm. that actually might work, didn't try that yet | 21:34 |
| chem|st | that's mostly needed in editors | 21:34 |
| chem|st | or shift+meta, don't know any from the top of my head | 21:34 |
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| chem|st | it took me ages to adapt to my layers, just as long as it took to set them up as the default isn't that helpful | 21:35 |
| Aard | http://www.mikecase.net/ModelM/Black-Model-M-Trackpoint.jpg | 21:35 |
| chem|st | super+k is anoying if you do not have a right super key | 21:35 |
| chem|st | oh the upper class IBM, hard to find iirc | 21:36 |
| Aard | http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/categories.main/parentcat/9244 -- they currently have even 2! | 21:36 |
| Aard | but yes, hard to find. was searching over 2 years before one became available. and then got lucky, and had some more show up. so now I have one white one and 3 black ones | 21:37 |
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| chem|st | :) | 21:38 |
| chem|st | I probably should start searching for my atariST... | 21:38 |
| chem|st | might get harder to find one in good shape | 21:38 |
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| pdanek1 | What do we want? TOHKBD! When do we want it? Now! | 21:39 |
| ikarus | pdanek1: hehehe | 21:40 |
| chem|st | Aard: good to know that there are more oldschool people out there^^ | 21:40 |
| ikarus | pdanek1: I want it sooner, but I might actually see if I can visit Dirk, as I am doing a gamepad that attaches to the same backplate | 21:40 |
| ikarus | so I want some early testing in | 21:40 |
| pdanek1 | Hmm | 21:40 |
| ikarus | full dual analog sticks deal :) | 21:41 |
| ikarus | (slidey sticks like the PSP/Vita uses) | 21:41 |
| pdanek1 | Aard: Do you prefer those because of trackpoint? Because if you don't care about trackpoint, modern Cherry MX keyboard will be probably better than buckling spring. | 21:41 |
| chem|st | ikarus: that is a good point | 21:41 |
| Aard | pdanek1: tried cherry mx, didn't like | 21:41 |
| pdanek1 | hm | 21:42 |
| Aard | also, yes, I need a keyboard with trackpoint | 21:42 |
| pdanek1 | As for me, trackpoint is the killer feature. | 21:42 |
| Yaniel | I can't wait to see if the king's assembly keyboard/mouse/joystick actually works in practice | 21:42 |
| pdanek1 | Touchpad makes me mad. | 21:42 |
| Yaniel | hehe | 21:42 |
| chem|st | pdanek1: one of the reasons I use ion3 on my netbook... I don't need a mouse | 21:42 |
| Yaniel | I'm actually surprised by the touchpad on my mbp | 21:43 |
| ikarus | chem|st: I've got some early prototypes printed up for trials, but I need details from Dirk | 21:43 |
| ikarus | plus need to figure out how to do the SW | 21:43 |
| Aard | I have a custom made unicomp (custom layout) with trackpoint, but unfortunately tehy use a different trackpoint technology, so it's not that nice to use. used an ibm space saver with trackpoint until I found m13s | 21:43 |
| Yaniel | about the only touchpad not to get on my nerves most of the time | 21:43 |
| chem|st | has anybody experience with playstation controllers? | 21:43 |
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| pdanek1 | I tried HP trackpoint and it wasn't so nice. | 21:44 |
| ikarus | chem|st: yes | 21:44 |
| chem|st | what do I need? PS3 or 4? | 21:44 |
| ikarus | chem|st: 4 is easier, it works without magic, 3 needs you to connect it to a PC and give it the MAC of the BT you want to connect it to | 21:45 |
| ikarus | and that requires a magic app | 21:45 |
| chem|st | flaws? | 21:45 |
| chem|st | I have a logitech clone, and it just does not feel right | 21:46 |
| chem|st | is it BT? | 21:46 |
| ikarus | the 4 isn't fully supported yet, even with the newest kernel (good luck), 3 you may get a bad batch, they had one before the latest | 21:46 |
| ikarus | yes, it's regular BT | 21:46 |
| ikarus | unlike Microsoft | 21:46 |
| * chem|st is lazy... why google... ;) | 21:46 | |
| ikarus | chem|st: meh, google doesn't outperform my brain until I have quite a few more rum and cokes | 21:48 |
| ikarus | :P | 21:48 |
| chem|st | ok, I want to run the headless crazyflie control software on the tablet, have the radio on USB and then I have no port left for a controller^^ | 21:48 |
| chem|st | ikarus: another good idea... but my poison is gin tonic! | 21:48 |
| ikarus | chem|st: PS3 and PS4 controllers are fine for that sort of fluff | 21:48 |
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| chem|st | sadly I am no developer... I am a usability tester | 21:49 |
| ikarus | so you are no developer, you are a victim | 21:50 |
| chem|st | in regards of nokia alpha testing I consider myself a victim that has been tortured for months | 21:50 |
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| chem|st | ikarus: I actually do not find the time to start learning any language to a degree that I could make use off outside of fixing things | 21:57 |
| ikarus | chem|st: happens, for me most programming languages have started to blend together and I just need to remember what the best practices are | 21:59 |
| chem|st | vhdl and assembler are of no use to application/gui development | 21:59 |
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| chem|st | and I am not familiar with current hardware to make any use of it either | 22:00 |
| mornfall | oh wow, m13 | 22:01 |
| mornfall | I didn't want to know this thing exists | 22:01 |
| chem|st | next things I want to get deeper in with are curl and perl but do they count as programming? | 22:02 |
| tadzik | perl does :o | 22:02 |
| mornfall | eh, $300 | 22:02 |
| mornfall | tadzik: depends on what you do with it | 22:02 |
| mornfall | perl -pe '/foo/' isn't any more programming than curl somethingsomething | 22:03 |
| tadzik | of course | 22:03 |
| mornfall | and you can do real programs “with curl” (in shell, say) | 22:03 |
| tigeli | actually.. curl is programming language | 22:04 |
| tigeli | but also that software :) | 22:04 |
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| mornfall | oh dear :D | 22:04 |
| tigeli | though.. the app is actually cURL | 22:05 |
| tigeli | and the programming language is curl :) | 22:05 |
| tigeli | or Curl | 22:05 |
| tigeli | :D | 22:05 |
| mornfall | and perl is Perl | 22:05 |
| mornfall | also, Perl officially stands for Practical Extraction and Report Language, except when it doesn't. | 22:05 |
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| tigeli | :) | 22:06 |
| mornfall | what I'm not sure about how curl (the language) and perl make it into the same sentence | 22:06 |
| mornfall | +is | 22:06 |
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| ender| | <mornfall> also, Perl officially stands for Practical Extraction and Report Language, except when it doesn't. <- according to it's man page: Perl actually stands for Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister, but don't tell anyone I said that. | 22:49 |
| mornfall | :-) | 22:49 |
| ender| | oops, i shouldn't have told you that | 22:49 |
| mornfall | I probably knew that anyway :P | 22:50 |
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| RavenholmDX | just released my app on OpenRepos | 23:01 |
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| chem|st | RavenholmDX: what app? | 23:10 |
| RavenholmDX | Duder | 23:10 |
| RavenholmDX | should be top of the latest list in Warehouse | 23:11 |
| RavenholmDX | https://openrepos.net/content/ravenholmdx/duder | 23:11 |
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| chem|st | mornfall: I want to understand curl the language and perl, not curl the cli interface | 23:13 |
| swift110_ | hello all | 23:15 |
| mornfall | chem|st: it *is* a very strange combination :) | 23:15 |
| chem|st | is ruby + perl strange too? | 23:16 |
| mornfall | not so much | 23:17 |
| chem|st | well I do not want to combine them... if that is what is strange^^ | 23:18 |
| mornfall | no, I didn't mean that | 23:19 |
| mornfall | curl is kinda corporate, and I don't think it has anything resembling a community | 23:20 |
| RavenholmDX | chem|st, you downloaded my app I see | 23:20 |
| RavenholmDX | Ireland 1, Germany 1 | 23:20 |
| chem|st | I know little about those languages but it seemed that curl is a good idea to rewrite my website without php,html and javascript | 23:20 |
| RavenholmDX | I'm going to be a millionaire | 23:20 |
| mornfall | RavenholmDX: surely :) | 23:20 |
| chem|st | RavenholmDX: no I did not, maybe chemist did | 23:21 |
| mornfall | chem|st: what does your website do? | 23:21 |
| chem|st | mornfall: nothing! | 23:21 |
| chem|st | :) | 23:21 |
| mornfall | what does it need php for then? :-) (or curl) | 23:21 |
| mornfall | and javascript... | 23:21 |
| chem|st | my own learning experience | 23:21 |
| chem|st | someone showed me a website and said without javasscript that was impossible, I rebuilt the website in less than 4hours with html and css | 23:22 |
| chem|st | just to proof a point | 23:23 |
| mornfall | people say things | 23:23 |
| chem|st | I have problems to wrap my head around code when I do not have a purpose for it, or because I have a purpose for it... if the purpose is very narrow I get a start and find my way in | 23:24 |
| mornfall | either way, curl seems like a hodgepodge to me | 23:26 |
| chem|st | any better idea? | 23:26 |
| mornfall | it might sound appealing on surface with its extensive feature list, but ... meh :) | 23:26 |
| mornfall | chem|st: that's why I'm asking what you are trying to do :-) | 23:27 |
| chem|st | I try to wrap my head around object oriented programming with a overall simplistic task | 23:27 |
| mornfall | ruby is a fairly nice OOP language | 23:28 |
| mornfall | (it was influenced by smalltalk, which is sort of prototype OOP) | 23:28 |
| mornfall | but really, OOP is a way of thinking; some languages make it more natural, some less | 23:28 |
| mornfall | (and OOP is not necessarily the best way to think about a particular problem; it is a good match for some ofc) | 23:29 |
| chem|st | and that is my problem, I need to give my brain the time to wrap around OOP thinking | 23:30 |
| mornfall | from mainstream languages, I guess ruby is near the top of what's there with regards to OOP anyway | 23:30 |
| mornfall | python wouldn't be entirely bad either -- it has a bigger community and more resources, but it's not as clean design-wise (IMHO) | 23:31 |
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| mornfall | hm, OOP is actually very natural, especially for modelling entities with behaviour... so much that I find it difficult to reasonably describe what it is :-) | 23:33 |
| mornfall | (I spend too much time thinking in programming languages...) | 23:34 |
| mornfall | (don't ever do OOP in perl though :P) | 23:35 |
| sharpneli | "Dude, not everything is an object." | 23:38 |
| sharpneli | Then when you go overboard with OOP yo get Java. And from java http://steve-yegge.blogspot.nl/2006/03/execution-in-kingdom-of-nouns.html | 23:38 |
| mornfall | Java is a very specific breed of OOP though... | 23:40 |
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| sharpneli | Yeah. It's the designed by committee and taken to dangerous extreme kind of OOP | 23:53 |
| mornfall | I'm particularly clumsy with words today. | 23:54 |
| mornfall | Java is just wrong... | 23:54 |
| mornfall | It promotes all the wrong ideas to core, “inviolable” principles... | 23:54 |
| mornfall | But if industrialisation and commoditisation of software is your thing, java is a good fit. | 23:55 |
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| mornfall | Efficiently stiffles individual expression. | 23:56 |
| sharpneli | I wouldn't call it efficient | 23:56 |
| sharpneli | I wouldn't call it even cost efficient | 23:56 |
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| mornfall | stifles* too | 23:57 |
| sharpneli | But if you want to hire horders of people who have no skill nor interest in programming then java is kinda ok | 23:57 |
| sharpneli | It allows you to get some sort of software from them | 23:57 |
| mornfall | your standards are too high | 23:57 |
| mornfall | most things you ever encounter are “some sort of software” | 23:58 |
| mornfall | good programs are very rare | 23:58 |
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| mornfall | and “rockstar” programmers rarely get anything finished :-) even less if you try to put ten of those on the same project | 23:59 |
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