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| salyavin | Great news on updaet10 and pyotherside keithzg thanks | 02:16 |
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| zutto | I ordered my jolla last week on Monday, got it yesterday | 03:53 |
| zutto | To hasdf ^ | 03:53 |
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| japa-fi | zutto, Ordered my jolla on monday 24th, got shipping notification yesterday | 05:04 |
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| zutto | yeah | 05:17 |
| zutto | i got the notification on monday, arrived at the local post office yesterday | 05:17 |
| zutto | only if there was option to pick it up from jolla office directly :P | 05:17 |
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| zutto | hmh | 06:11 |
| zutto | i gotta say, i regret not buying jolla when it was released now | 06:11 |
| japa-fi | zutto, please explain? | 06:12 |
| japa-fi | not bying when it was released now | 06:12 |
| zutto | when the phone was released, i was planning to buy it but the whole hassle people had to deal with for the price didnt seem to be worth it | 06:12 |
| zutto | i just got jolla today, ordered it last week since its now so cheap | 06:13 |
| zutto | but so far the expirience has been great | 06:13 |
| entil | wut, is the igg campaign one buy away from sdhc support :o | 06:13 |
| japa-fi | I most likely receive my jolla today. | 06:13 |
| japa-fi | Keeping fingers crossed | 06:13 |
| zutto | yep | 06:14 |
| suosaaski | zutto: on the other hand, the software has improved a lot since it was launched, and now you got it cheaper. And you have a new phone instead of a used one :) | 06:14 |
| zutto | probably :P | 06:15 |
| Nicd- | yeah, the experience was arguably a lot less awesome than it is today | 06:15 |
| zutto | i wonder, is there way to disable the swipe gesture from either side of the phone? | 06:15 |
| Nicd- | entil: it's not one buy awya, it's a few thousand dollars away | 06:16 |
| Nicd- | zutto: the app minimize gesture? no | 06:16 |
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| suosaaski | entil: not quite, unless one tablet costs 65677 dollars | 06:16 |
| entil | Thanks, Markus! You raised the campaign total to: $1,444,323! | 06:16 |
| zutto | android applications that use the native navigation drawer dont function with it | 06:16 |
| entil | yes, this is because I'm tired and retarded | 06:16 |
| entil | but hey, the lastucase looks nice! | 06:16 |
| entil | good use for tax returns | 06:17 |
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| Nicd- | zutto: we were just discussing this yesterday on another channel. but no, it's not possible. you just have to be careful with the swipes | 06:17 |
| zutto | yeah, one of the w-a devs got curious yesterday :P | 06:18 |
| entil | zutto: is that whatsapp? | 06:18 |
| zutto | weechat-android | 06:18 |
| entil | oh | 06:18 |
| zutto | remote client for weechat | 06:18 |
| entil | I haven't had time to even think about the textsecure client.. think I pushed one commit to the base library last weekend :( | 06:18 |
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| zutto | long as the application has a button to enable those navigation drawer menus, it wont be a too big problem :P | 06:19 |
| Nicd- | zutto: yes, I talked with him exactly. but weechat-android is about to be made redundant ;) | 06:19 |
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| zutto | well | 06:20 |
| zutto | that depends how well the weecrapp (that was the name, wasnt it? :D) will be made | 06:20 |
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| zutto | out of curiosity, is there any bigger batteries that are compatible with jolla out? | 06:22 |
| zutto | quick googling yesterday didnt show up any | 06:22 |
| Nicd- | nope, there aren't even normal batteries (official) | 06:24 |
| zutto | yeah, i know there isnt any official ones | 06:24 |
| Nicd- | but I hope I can make weecrapp a better experience than the android app, with native notifications and stuff | 06:24 |
| zutto | some batteries were compatible with a bit of cardboard tho | 06:24 |
| entil | got an n900 battery from these guys http://www.mugenbattery.com/ | 06:25 |
| entil | 5/5 | 06:25 |
| Nicd- | yeah, I had a mugen xl too, it was nice | 06:26 |
| entil | it had a huge form factor, as it was a long time ago, and it came with a custom backpanel | 06:26 |
| entil | the only downside is that it wasn't precharged, so I had to have it stuck to my wall for like ever | 06:26 |
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| Yaniel | Nicd-: how is it coming along btw | 08:19 |
| Yaniel | and as an alternative solution one could make a qwebview wrapper for glowing-bear | 08:20 |
| meklu | that sounds nasty | 08:20 |
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| RavenholmDX | Heyo | 08:23 |
| RavenholmDX | My Jolla is currently in France | 08:24 |
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| stephg | nice time of year to go on holiday | 08:24 |
| RavenholmDX | Is it ever a nice time to holiday in France? :P | 08:25 |
| stephg | I'd rather be there than here right now? does that count? ;) | 08:26 |
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| RavenholmDX | where's 'here'? | 08:27 |
| stephg | contemplating work ;) (London) | 08:28 |
| RavenholmDX | Ah | 08:28 |
| RavenholmDX | I just got into work myself | 08:28 |
| RavenholmDX | Nothing commences until I've had my breakfast and morning coffee :P | 08:28 |
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| lainwir3d | morning | 08:29 |
| RavenholmDX | morning lainwir3d | 08:29 |
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| Nicd- | Yaniel: or just use the browser for glowing-bear | 08:33 |
| Nicd- | Yaniel: it's been stopped for a while because I've had school and work stuff, but I hope I have time to continue it this wekeend | 08:34 |
| Nicd- | weekend* | 08:34 |
| Nicd- | of course it's not helping that my laptop is dying | 08:34 |
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| SK_work | hey : https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-ubutab-a-1tb-ubuntu-tablet-for-media-lovers | 09:28 |
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| SK_work | looks nice | 09:29 |
| SK_work | maybe a bit big, but some interesting stuff | 09:29 |
| SK_work | (kickstand etc.) | 09:29 |
| meklu | looks like a nightmare | 09:29 |
| SK_work | meklu: why ? | 09:29 |
| meklu | a spinning disk drive in a portable device... | 09:30 |
| * SK_work is not fan of big tablets | 09:30 | |
| SK_work | but the tablet itself looks nice | 09:30 |
| Stskeeps | i'm fairly sure that thing is a scam though | 09:30 |
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| SK_work | meklu: yeah, better have some nice free-fall sensor in this stuff | 09:30 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: why ? | 09:30 |
| Stskeeps | tmo has a good thread on that | 09:30 |
| meklu | I doubt anyone's going to hold it perfectly vertically or horizontally | 09:30 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: ha ? | 09:30 |
| meklu | the goal is suspiciously low | 09:30 |
| SK_work | this reminds me: I need my case | 09:31 |
| Stskeeps | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1450496#post1450496 + there was some other link | 09:31 |
| Tegu | gmail address? seriously? | 09:32 |
| Tegu | I mean, I'd assume they have their own domain or something | 09:32 |
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| Stskeeps | i don't think this is a canonical offfering. | 09:33 |
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| SK_work | Stskeeps: it's not | 09:34 |
| SK_work | they don't claim to be from canonical | 09:34 |
| Mirv | probably a scam yeah, or at least quite "ambitious" project | 09:34 |
| Mirv | the previous project from the same person was a "have a printed wallpaper to your cubicle" https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/changeyouroutlook/change-your-outlook | 09:36 |
| Mirv | but if it's an honest attempt to create something and not a scam, +1 for trying | 09:37 |
| meklu | that's a very heavy "if" | 09:38 |
| AL13N_work | haha | 09:38 |
| AL13N_work | heavy | 09:38 |
| AL13N_work | lol | 09:38 |
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| AL13N_work | but ubuntu has a trademark | 09:39 |
| AL13N_work | so | 09:39 |
| Tofe | SK_work: this is very probably a scam. | 09:39 |
| AL13N_work | i donno if this is exactly legal | 09:39 |
| zutto | wait wait wait | 09:39 |
| Mirv | yeah probably they're infringing on the trademark and are not approved | 09:39 |
| Mirv | but I dunno | 09:39 |
| AL13N_work | zutto: why? | 09:39 |
| SK_work | isn't ubuntu open-source | 09:40 |
| zutto | she wanted 50$ to create wallpapers for cuble? | 09:40 |
| SK_work | so they can do "what they want" ? | 09:40 |
| zutto | cubicle* | 09:40 |
| zutto | O.o | 09:40 |
| SK_work | maybe not the brand, but spreading ubuntu is in canonical's interest | 09:40 |
| Mirv | SK_work: if they don't call it Ubuntu, yes. same for many other open source projects, the name is trademarked. | 09:40 |
| SK_work | true | 09:40 |
| AL13N_work | SK_work: it might be in canonical' interest, or not | 09:40 |
| AL13N_work | but maybe someone should tell them | 09:40 |
| SK_work | anyway, coming from someone doing wallpapers, I guess it won't work that well | 09:40 |
| Mirv | SK_work: "if I can print a wallpaper, I can print a tablet!" :) | 09:41 |
| SK_work | :) | 09:41 |
| AL13N_work | if someone does a project with their name on it, and it fails, it could hurt the trademark, so... | 09:41 |
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| meklu | there was also some other ubuntu tablet thing going on | 09:42 |
| meklu | didn't look like that was canonical's either | 09:42 |
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| SK_work | Oo | 09:43 |
| SK_work | TMO thread shows that the ubutab is a stretched xperia tab | 09:43 |
| SK_work | Oo | 09:43 |
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| zutto | yeah, that ubutab has to be a scam | 09:44 |
| zutto | 275$ for whole unit | 09:44 |
| Tomo | lol | 09:45 |
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| Tomo | seriously, >1TB internal storage (2.5" Hard Drive. 5400RPM) | 09:45 |
| popey | +1 looks dodgy | 09:45 |
| zutto | Tomo: that isnt special | 09:45 |
| zutto | i can link you few chinese ones with such | 09:45 |
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| ggabriel | does it come with an esperesso maker? | 09:45 |
| zutto | but all those chinese ones are even more expensive than that | 09:45 |
| Tomo | zutto: do please, i am interested :O | 09:46 |
| zutto | hold on a moment | 09:46 |
| Tomo | as to where it would fit if the thickness is 14 mm | 09:46 |
| zutto | http://www.aliexpress.com/item/mini-pc-tablet-pc-10-inch-2G-RAM-750G-HDD-Camera-320-rotate-Intel-Atom-N2600/508147518.html | 09:46 |
| zutto | hmh, thats the only one in aliexpress apparently | 09:47 |
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| zutto | but thats closest you'll find atm | 09:47 |
| Tomo | well that is a different form factor :P | 09:47 |
| zutto | it is still technically a tablet :P | 09:47 |
| Tofe | hey, just 1.15kg ! | 09:48 |
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| Tomo | i believe that if it has an RJ45-port it can house a spinning drive easily - a 14mm thick device not so much :) | 09:49 |
| meklu | an RJ45 port | 09:49 |
| meklu | crikey | 09:49 |
| meklu | at least it has the ability to have non-sucky internet | 09:49 |
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| zutto | chineses push out alot of fancy stuff like that | 09:50 |
| Tomo | yeah for some purposes that doesn't seem half bad | 09:51 |
| zutto | that was probably designed for some rugged application rather than just tablet-pc tho | 09:51 |
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| mornfall | piezoelectric touchscreen, wow | 09:52 |
| Tomo | although a full laptop with a pivot touchscreen (Lenovo Yoga and such) would do the same thing - price tag might be different though :) | 09:52 |
| Nicd- | 1024*600, dat resolution | 09:52 |
| Tomo | :D | 09:52 |
| Tomo | good enough for running a POS application or something? | 09:53 |
| mornfall | good enough for almost anything | 09:53 |
| zutto | depends on the system | 09:53 |
| zutto | most pos systems here in finland have static resolution requirement :| | 09:53 |
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| Nicd- | Tomo: it's for piece of shit apps, you said it | 09:53 |
| Tomo | xD | 09:53 |
| zutto | :P | 09:53 |
| mornfall | it's not like my computer now can do much that it couldn't do back when it had a 14" 640x480 CRT | 09:53 |
| zutto | pos systems are actually quite fun to tinker around with! | 09:54 |
| Nicd- | seems indiegogo really doesn't care what kind of projects people run. there's no way they'll manufacture a tablet with that money. unless they're taking some chinese premade andoird tablet and slapping a ubuntu launcher on it | 09:54 |
| Nicd- | android* | 09:55 |
| zutto | hmh | 09:55 |
| zutto | i wonder, was that ubutab introduction video made by some fiverr user or something | 09:55 |
| zutto | it looks like one those | 09:55 |
| mornfall | that's some serious nonsense | 09:56 |
| mornfall | as rendered, a slim 2.5" drive would be poking through the screen | 09:57 |
| zutto | the video doesnt use the actual tablet in the video | 09:57 |
| zutto | it uses the picture from the graphic designer | 09:57 |
| zutto | and then just some premade animations to render text :P | 09:57 |
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| SK_work | zutto: just like the jolla tablet : | 10:00 |
| SK_work | :) | 10:00 |
| SK_work | however Jolla is behind the jolla tablet | 10:00 |
| zutto | :P | 10:00 |
| zutto | i dont really have that much hope for the tablet | 10:00 |
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| SK_work | we will see | 10:03 |
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| SK_work | we also have this http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTgyNTM | 10:04 |
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| Acce | Hi people, please answer to http://tinyurl.com/l4oe77p this survey if you have time | 10:16 |
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| Nicd- | Acce: answered | 10:21 |
| Nicd- | have you put that on TJC? | 10:21 |
| Acce | yeah, https://together.jolla.com/question/68350/survey-jolla-usage-poll/ | 10:22 |
| Acce | Also asked if jollausers.com might blog post it, they probably have many subscribers | 10:22 |
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| chem|st | the referral thing is rigged... or igg is incapable | 10:35 |
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| chem|st | it says I have 2 clicks | 10:35 |
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| ruskie | chem|st, where are you checking it? | 11:00 |
| ruskie | ahh | 11:01 |
| ruskie | found it | 11:01 |
| ruskie | hmm I have 4 but 0 on spending sadly | 11:02 |
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| chem|st | ruskie: my links have >1k views and I tried to raise the "clicks" myself - nothing happens | 11:05 |
| Stskeeps | g/ 33 | 11:05 |
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| ruskie | but anyway borrowe some extra cash from family so I hopefully will have the money on my prepaid mastercard by monday so I can get the case for the tablet | 11:06 |
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| chem|st | ruskie: use my referral link ;) | 11:08 |
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| ruskie | chem|st, hehe | 11:11 |
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| till- | Acce done :) | 11:11 |
| Scelt | Acce: done | 11:11 |
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| ottulo | oo, 24h left in tohkbd kickstarter | 11:12 |
| chem|st | Acce: posted it to maemo.org FB page | 11:12 |
| till- | allthough I think the anwers for "How do you see Jolla as a company?" are a little bit to black/white | 11:13 |
| chem|st | the "is it enough open"? | 11:15 |
| chem|st | ottulo: ta, also on FB now | 11:16 |
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| till- | the "do they successfully deliver and communicate openly" | 11:16 |
| dr_gogeta86 | Stskeeps, did you tried to mkfs.ext4 a 64gig sd card | 11:17 |
| dr_gogeta86 | ? | 11:17 |
| till- | maybe a scale from 1-10 would be better for both questions (in my opinion) | 11:17 |
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| frzk | till-: I think it's ok like this, if you want to actually identify a trend | 11:18 |
| till- | yes, but for example I would say they delivered most things they marketed (like maybe 80-90%) but can't express that in an easy way | 11:20 |
| frzk | till-: that's why you have the textarea just below :) (no offense) | 11:21 |
| till- | actually because I was to lazy :) but wouldn't a scale be easier to evaluate? | 11:21 |
| frzk | till-: I get your point, it's just easier (IMHO), to see if people are happy or not with such answers than with people noting 4, 5 or 6 | 11:22 |
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| frzk | when dealing with customers, you have to make them 100% happy | 11:22 |
| till- | I think it's okay like this, but I don't feel 100% comfortable with the answer that I chose. And if my true opinion is wanted.. :) | 11:23 |
| frzk | so you don't really care if they are 70% happy or 30% angry | 11:23 |
| frzk | well, matter of taste probably :) | 11:23 |
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| Acce | till-, Scelt, chem|st: thanks! | 11:24 |
| Acce | till-: well yes, it is bit black and white, that's why I left the comments section for it | 11:25 |
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| Acce | (and it's the first survey I ever designed so please forgive me :) I'll try to learn from these mistakes!) | 11:26 |
| Acce | frzk: thanks for the defense :) | 11:26 |
| till- | well I wouldn't call it a mistake, it was just a personal remark :) | 11:26 |
| Acce | ok :) | 11:27 |
| Acce | great to see that many are interested in answering and finding the results! | 11:27 |
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| till- | no offense ment, it's great to have such a survey :) | 11:27 |
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| tadzik | I like surveys | 11:29 |
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| suosaaski | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWpYRsCO8s0 | 11:30 |
| frzk | Acce: till- : this is just how I learnt to make a poll (like : never propose an odd number of propositions like 1-2-3-4-5, because if all users answer 3, you don't know if it's positive or negative. With 1-2-3-4, you'd still get a trend) | 11:30 |
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| chem|st | frzk: I hate when people do that, I often don't lean in one direction, you are manipulating the result by doing so. | 11:33 |
| zutto | companies that do polls are silly | 11:33 |
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| Acce | frzk: I see.. I put the "no opinion" though, in case someone did not want to comment or feel they don't have clear enough picture about it | 11:33 |
| till- | I've seen Likert scales used a lot (at least in evaluating bachelor/master thesis at university): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likert_scale | 11:33 |
| frzk | chem|st: you're not manipulating, you're asking people to make a choice - it also depends on the question, and your goals, obviously | 11:34 |
| chem|st | you are forcing people into one direction, for stuff where people NEED to make up their mind, that might be ok but in general it is manipulating data | 11:35 |
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| frzk | chem|st: well if you don't have an opinion why would you answer a poll ? | 11:37 |
| till- | because sometimes you have to if there is no "no opinion" answer | 11:37 |
| Acce | Well, there are other questions that one might still have opinions about, is what I thought | 11:39 |
| meklu | frzk: if you have opinions in other areas of the poll | 11:40 |
| chem|st | frzk: abortion Evil,Lawful Evil,Lawful Good,Good is missing a "neutral" | 11:44 |
| Scelt | if anybody is having troubles with blurry images, try this out: http://jollassa.fi/2014/12/camera-lens-in-scratches-no-more/ | 11:44 |
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| Stskeeps | who hits stalls and such on u9? | 11:46 |
| Stskeeps | with memory | 11:46 |
| flux | with TOHKBD we get a lens protector for free.. ;) | 11:46 |
| Scelt | Stskeeps: no problems here. before u9 the OOM was much bigger issue | 11:46 |
| Scelt | flux: doesn't help anymore if lens is already scratched :( | 11:46 |
| flux | scelt, well, it helps it from getting worse | 11:46 |
| flux | I figured my lense was just dirty, but perhaps it's scratched | 11:47 |
| pp_ | I've not noted any oom issues before u9 nor with it :-) | 11:47 |
| pp_ | maybe I'm not using my phone heavily enough :) | 11:47 |
| Scelt | flux: if you checked out the first image there on the blog, it's awfully blurry. no use for those images :( | 11:47 |
| Nicd- | Stskeeps: haven't had any of the OOM issues on U9. but memory leaks, yes | 11:48 |
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| pp_ | hmn, lipstick seems to be sucking up quite a bit of memory | 11:50 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: no apps closed when touched from home-screen? | 11:52 |
| Nicd- | chem|st: what do you mean with "touched"? | 11:53 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: interact with cover or tap cover | 11:53 |
| till- | Stskeeps sometimes when I receive a call it takes several seconds to show the caller screen and then another several seconds to show the controls if that's what you mean | 11:53 |
| chem|st | till-: several seconds? | 11:54 |
| Nicd- | chem|st: no, haven't had that | 11:54 |
| chem|st | a second is a very long time in that regard | 11:54 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: lucky | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | till-: how many notifications do you have in events view | 11:55 |
| till- | very little | 11:55 |
| till- | it seems to happen if I have the browser with 1-3 tabs and 1-3 other apps open | 11:55 |
| Stskeeps | 5-10-15-20-30? | 11:55 |
| till- | maybe 1-4 notifications | 11:55 |
| mcuros_ | i have also lags when receiving calls a lot of times | 11:56 |
| mcuros_ | or if browsing a lot | 11:56 |
| mcuros_ | and when installing from warehouse | 11:56 |
| till- | it felt like ~30 seconds from first call notification (by display activation) until i can finally answer the call | 11:56 |
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| till- | happend 2-3 times, since then i close the browser and other memory intense apps when I don't need them | 11:57 |
| flux | I suppose my memory problems with u8 aren't interesting.. :) | 11:57 |
| mcuros_ | yesterday had to restart the phone because it was unusable - first time after u9. | 11:58 |
| Pawky | The very reason I sponsor Jolla, and sailfish is to give the | 11:58 |
| Pawky | does Jolla support Bluetooth Smart Ready/Bluetooth 4.0? | 11:58 |
| flux | the hardware does, however the software is lacking | 11:58 |
| till- | felt like a lot of swapping is happening to make space for the phone ui (shouldn't there be a _small_ phone ui just for answering calls running all the time with high priority?) | 11:59 |
| flux | there is a library for interacting with bluetooth low energy, libgato | 11:59 |
| Pawky | software?... like, driver? | 11:59 |
| flux | there is driver as well | 11:59 |
| flux | but there is no software that can make use of it | 11:59 |
| Pawky | and no changes in site? | 11:59 |
| mcuros_ | i also noticed that many times wifi and network drops connection when i use a lot of apps | 11:59 |
| Pawky | could an app fully support it? or does it have to be on an os level as well? | 12:00 |
| flux | pawky, well, it needs some support from the OS | 12:00 |
| flux | I'm not sure if the support is there | 12:01 |
| flux | nevertheles, most of the support should come along with Bluez, which is already there | 12:01 |
| Pawky | :'( | 12:01 |
| Pawky | :-) | 12:01 |
| flux | hmm, actually, there is some support for the Pebble for Sailfish | 12:02 |
| flux | so I imagine it must use BLE for that to happen. | 12:02 |
| Pawky | BLE? | 12:02 |
| flux | Bluetooth Low Energy | 12:03 |
| meklu | bluetooth low energy | 12:03 |
| flux | yet another name for Bluetooth Smart Ready :) | 12:03 |
| Pawky | I thought it had to do with security | 12:03 |
| Pawky | as its needed for bluetooth key locks.. | 12:03 |
| Pawky | (www.kwikset.com) | 12:03 |
| Pawky | fg | 12:03 |
| Pawky | B-) | 12:04 |
| flux | the point in locks is that they need to use very little energy, I imagine they are wireless.. | 12:04 |
| RaYmAn | Pebble doesn't use BLE really. | 12:04 |
| Pawky | ah.. yeah of course, low energy as they are mostly battery driven | 12:04 |
| RaYmAn | (well, they do have *some* support they use for iOS, but.) | 12:04 |
| flux | rayman, how does it communicate then? plain bluetooth serial? | 12:04 |
| RaYmAn | yes | 12:04 |
| Pawky | I thought the low energy stuff came with the 4.0 version | 12:05 |
| RaYmAn | their chip supports both | 12:05 |
| RaYmAn | but they use regular BT SPP in practice. | 12:05 |
| flux | in any case, I have a Texas Instruments BLE test gizmo and it can communicate with Jolla :) | 12:06 |
| RaYmAn | also, yes, BLE was included in BT 4.0, but it's just one part of the standard | 12:06 |
| flux | the interesting part I dare say ;-) | 12:07 |
| Pawky | so... the Jolla driver does NOT support the BLE stuff in 4.0? | 12:07 |
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| flux | it does. all you need is software to make use of it. such software is probably not available from the jolla store. | 12:08 |
| Pawky | so.. you think kwikset stuff will work in the end? | 12:09 |
| Pawky | dare one order it? | 12:09 |
| flux | no, unless someone writes kwikset-software | 12:09 |
| flux | it doesn't work in the jolla-android | 12:09 |
| Pawky | but there is an android app from them? | 12:09 |
| flux | it'd be great if it did | 12:09 |
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| flux | but sadly I don't actually see that happening any time soon, if ever :/ | 12:10 |
| flux | btw, here's a tjc-post about the subject: https://together.jolla.com/question/8589/proper-bluetooth-le-support/ | 12:16 |
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| chem|st | has anyone else managed to break the display frame? (the plastic frame around the display) | 12:44 |
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| Vynney | how long does it usually take care@jolla.com to respond? | 12:52 |
| tadzik | they responded to me within 24 hours | 12:52 |
| Vynney | ok | 12:52 |
| Vynney | my fedex delivery had somehow been canceled for some reason, I hope they can uncancel it to be here before friday... | 12:53 |
| Brace | Vynney: in my (recent) experience they're really slow | 12:53 |
| Vynney | :( | 12:53 |
| Nicd- | someone just had their fedex delivery "cancelled" but it was still shipped after a while | 12:54 |
| Stskeeps | Vynney: that happens but it's not the true status | 12:54 |
| Vynney | ah | 12:54 |
| Vynney | is it a Jolla business problem or something at FedEx? | 12:54 |
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| Stskeeps | it might just be an API issue | 12:55 |
| Vynney | 12:28 amShipment cancelled by sender (on fexex page) | 12:55 |
| Vynney | ok | 12:55 |
| Vynney | I'd be willing to pray to Thor and Odin if that would speed up the delivery | 12:57 |
| * Vynney has been googling the tits off of finland since ordering a jolla | 12:58 | |
| pp_ | wrong country for thor and odin | 12:58 |
| Nicd- | yep | 12:59 |
| Vynney | really? | 12:59 |
| Nicd- | should've prayed to Ukko | 13:00 |
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| Vynney | ah | 13:00 |
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| Nicd- | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_mythology | 13:00 |
| Nicd- | note that we are not scandinavian and quite different from the other nordic countries | 13:01 |
| Vynney | yes ive googled it | 13:01 |
| Vynney | sorry for the comparison | 13:02 |
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| Vynney | could have known | 13:02 |
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| Vynney | Suomi doesnt sound anything like germanic languages. | 13:02 |
| Nicd- | yeah, it's a finno-ugric language | 13:03 |
| Vynney | how do your immigrants fare with it? | 13:04 |
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| Vynney | is it a hard language to learn? | 13:04 |
| phdeswer | Pretty much | 13:04 |
| Vynney | ah | 13:04 |
| joonahoi | well, we're different animals altogether | 13:04 |
| joonahoi | http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/science/13visual.html?_r=0 | 13:04 |
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| Vynney | as a Dutchman, any germanic languages like German, Danish and Swedish should be quite easy | 13:05 |
| Vynney | but Finnish sounds very alien | 13:05 |
| silver_hook | Vynney: As someone who just recently went to Budapest (Hungary is the other part of the ugro-finnic group, hence the name), and speaking several European languages, I can attest that it’s nothing to do with anything in the vicinity. | 13:06 |
| phdeswer | Vynney: If you were Flemish Norwegian and Swedish would be the easiest to pick up. | 13:06 |
| silver_hook | Vynney: AFAIK the ugro-finnic group is not even part of the Indo-European language supergroup. | 13:06 |
| phdeswer | And yes Hungarian is in the same class as Finnish. Similar grammar but very different words. | 13:07 |
| Tomo | and all sorts of weird letters :P | 13:07 |
| mornfall | silver_hook: there's not-completely-trivial vocabulary crossover between hungarian and slavic languages | 13:07 |
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| silver_hook | mornfall: I saw some words that I recognised here and there …most were of -English-/Latin origin, but some were very homey to me. | 13:08 |
| chem|st | the hardware requests changed alot, it is about time that jolla adapts their stretch goals! | 13:08 |
| silver_hook | mornfall: I spotted this one e.g. on a sticker in the loo: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bolha | 13:09 |
| silver_hook | Ooo, lookie that: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Hungarian_terms_derived_from_Slavic_languages | 13:09 |
| Hartzi | well that's natural if you're surrounded by slavs :P | 13:10 |
| Vynney | has any of you seen the (Finnish) movie Star Wreck: in the Pirkinning? | 13:11 |
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| Hartzi | o/ | 13:12 |
| Vynney | really loved that | 13:12 |
| Nicd- | Vynney: probably most of the finns here | 13:12 |
| Vynney | Nicd-: that'd seem appropriate | 13:13 |
| Vynney | the movie is Finnish, and Jolla is somewhat of a nerd-central hobby | 13:13 |
| Scelt | Vynney: did you enjoy the movie? | 13:14 |
| Vynney | yes | 13:14 |
| Scelt | good :) | 13:14 |
| Bysmyyr | and others who do not know that: same director also in iron sky. BTW did you saw new teaser? | 13:15 |
| Bysmyyr | http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/iron-sky-vladimir-putin-dances-753235 | 13:15 |
| Hartzi | :D | 13:16 |
| Vynney | most of my friends, for example, don't even know why running Java (for _everything_) on a battery-powered device is such a heresy to me... | 13:16 |
| Vynney | seen Iron Sky | 13:16 |
| tadzik | we're running a JS VM for everything, for a change | 13:16 |
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| Acce | only for the UI, no? :) | 13:16 |
| tadzik | what a relief :) | 13:16 |
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| Vynney | a new iron sky? | 13:17 |
| Hartzi | yup | 13:18 |
| Vynney | tadzik: atleast Applications can be written with C/C++ and QT, which is pretty cute compared to just java | 13:18 |
| silver_hook | Is the OST again from Laibach? | 13:18 |
| SK_work | Qt is cute | 13:18 |
| SK_work | QT is quicktime :) | 13:19 |
| tadzik | hehe | 13:19 |
| tadzik | pun indented | 13:19 |
| SK_work | (nipticking again :)) | 13:19 |
| Vynney | sorry | 13:19 |
| Vynney | you are right, im often enough the guy to nitpick | 13:19 |
| Acce | wasn't it possible to do everything in open GL also? | 13:19 |
| tadzik | Vynney: well, last time I checked Qt supported Android :) | 13:19 |
| SK_work | Vynney: on Qt I'm the worst :D | 13:19 |
| tadzik | since Qt5 or so | 13:19 |
| Vynney | hmm | 13:19 |
| SK_work | Acce: well, Qt do use opengl at the end | 13:19 |
| Nicd- | but does the android store support Qt? | 13:19 |
| Vynney | well | 13:19 |
| Vynney | imma be honest then | 13:19 |
| SK_work | tadzik: Qt supports Android via JNI :/ | 13:20 |
| tadzik | SK_work: uh | 13:20 |
| Acce | SK_work: just same API? | 13:20 |
| * Vynney just hates Android and Apple with a fury | 13:20 | |
| Nicd- | Vynney: don't hate, it's useless | 13:20 |
| SK_work | same API ? | 13:20 |
| SK_work | well, it is Qt API, but you need a bit of JNI to make Qt work on Android | 13:20 |
| Vynney | i know, but I was too late to the N770/N800/N900/N9 game | 13:21 |
| SK_work | Vynney: never too late | 13:21 |
| tadzik | there's neo900 : | 13:22 |
| tadzik | well, there will be | 13:22 |
| Vynney | and I feel like, I wanted those when I was younger but coundt afford it, and since the iPhone most 'smart' devices seem to be getting dumber, "so even your grandma can use it" | 13:22 |
| SK_work | there is ubuntu too, there is Tizen | 13:23 |
| SK_work | there are nice alternatives :) | 13:23 |
| Vynney | I know | 13:23 |
| Vynney | and i chose sailfish | 13:23 |
| tadzik | well, ubuntu doesn't have hardware yet | 13:23 |
| Nicd- | the only realistic alternative is firefox | 13:23 |
| Vynney | maybe ubuntu can run on the jolla at some point | 13:23 |
| Nicd- | and I've heard bad things about those really cheap firefox phones... :P | 13:24 |
| tadzik | yeah, me too | 13:24 |
| tadzik | and there are no expensive ffox phones :P | 13:24 |
| Vynney | i found someone who had XWayland working on the jolla | 13:24 |
| Vynney | not supported ofcourse | 13:25 |
| Vynney | but that was very cool about the N900 | 13:25 |
| SK_work | tadzik: ubuntu's HW comes soon (c) for ~1.5 year | 13:25 |
| SK_work | I'm not a huge fan of FFOS because of HTML5 | 13:26 |
| Vynney | dude nextdoor had a N900, I thought it was wicked. I was really pissed/dissapointed when he broke it so his dad could buy him an iPhoney | 13:26 |
| Vynney | rather html5 than flash | 13:26 |
| Nicd- | broke it on purpose? | 13:26 |
| Vynney | yes | 13:26 |
| Nicd- | hope you told his dad ;) | 13:26 |
| SK_work | Vynney: for an app dev, I want my Qt, and nothing else ! | 13:27 |
| SK_work | :) | 13:27 |
| Vynney | well | 13:27 |
| Vynney | I dont actually speak C++ | 13:27 |
| Vynney | only a little (avr) C | 13:28 |
| Nicd- | Qt is kind of its own world inside C++ | 13:28 |
| Nicd- | makes a lot of stuff less painful | 13:28 |
| Vynney | so I've heard | 13:28 |
| Vynney | my IT teacher from highschool used Qt for all kinds of small task-focused diy apps like tests and such. He usually made it sound distict from anything else when talking about it, like a language in and of itself | 13:31 |
| Vynney | like C#/.NET, but with less swearing | 13:32 |
| Vynney | I really need to expand from AVR C | 13:33 |
| Vynney | bash and python won't get me anywhere | 13:33 |
| SK_work | Vynney: python is really good honestly | 13:34 |
| Vynney | so I guess Qt is on my todo list | 13:34 |
| Vynney | I know | 13:34 |
| Vynney | but not always supported | 13:34 |
| Vynney | i use it for task specific scripts | 13:35 |
| Stskeeps | https://together.jolla.com/question/68538/supporting-larger-microsd-cards-in-the-jolla-tablet-your-input-is-needed/ | 13:35 |
| Vynney | as long as thers no exfat | 13:36 |
| Vynney | id rather switch 64MB cards all day long than pay MS for such patents | 13:37 |
| Nicd- | but regular users won't | 13:38 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: regular users never switch the card^^ | 13:38 |
| pp_ | sony has "enable obscurevideoformat support" in the ps3 menus (which probably triggers license payment), wonder if it would apply here | 13:38 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: so have it formatted btrfs and everything is fine | 13:38 |
| Nicd- | chem|st: they do, when it breaks. and to them having it limited to a certain size is bad | 13:39 |
| Stskeeps | then i suggest you propose what should be done to shift that development weight over to supporting open source file systems better :) | 13:39 |
| Vynney | or f2fs | 13:39 |
| Nicd- | also formatting the card as ext or btrfs kills all compatibility | 13:39 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: I put my card in the next device... | 13:39 |
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| Nicd- | half the point is that you can take the card and read it on a computer | 13:39 |
| Vynney | you can | 13:39 |
| Vynney | just install the ext2 driver in windows or run a proper OS | 13:40 |
| Nicd- | yeah, tell my wife that | 13:40 |
| Nicd- | or any average joe | 13:40 |
| Scelt | isn't the udf a choice? | 13:40 |
| pp_ | above would keep free software fanatics happy (being able to say we're not paying a license fee if you don't enable it on your device being a separate matter) | 13:40 |
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| Nicd- | you can't expect jolla to limit their tablet only to the nerd crowd | 13:40 |
| Vynney | Nicd-: it works for aplle 80% of the time with cables... | 13:40 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: that is what I am doing... "sorry but if you want anything of my 2TB external you need to install linux" | 13:41 |
| Nicd- | chem|st: you are not a company | 13:41 |
| Vynney | so | 13:41 |
| Nicd- | Vynney: because apple is a market leader and their products are superior in other ways (to average users) | 13:41 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: just don't tell that it will be unreadable on win... that is what samsung does on their TVs - it gets formatted to XFS iirc | 13:42 |
| Nicd- | people are not going to put up with silly stuff like installing extra drivers just to read their memory card to get to use a niche tablet | 13:42 |
| Acce | personally I wouldn't mind being restricted to 32GB on the tabled SD.. if we go to 128GB, it would be ok if the contributed money would be used for development, and licenses would be paid from Jolla's other funding | 13:42 |
| Vynney | but their incompatibilities is what made them so 'hip' and exclusive to most people | 13:42 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: then don't tell them, the world will find out after a while, you just need to have the balls | 13:43 |
| Nicd- | Vynney: I'm willing to bet the UX is what made them hip | 13:43 |
| Nicd- | chem|st: yes, that's really great PR | 13:43 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: not telling? that is what samsung does | 13:43 |
| Vynney | Nicd-: System7 and OS8 looked like dogs | 13:43 |
| Acce | Jolla needs to gain users, stability and power in the market, until it can start shaking the patent fixations of the old market players | 13:43 |
| the_mgt | so, are you paying a fee for having SDHC compliance in the first place? | 13:43 |
| the_mgt | since it uses FAT and that is ms property, too, afaik | 13:44 |
| Nicd- | Vynney: apple was not a market leader back then | 13:44 |
| Acce | so first play by their rules, become big, then overtake them | 13:44 |
| Nicd- | Vynney: I'm referring to iPhones and iPads here | 13:44 |
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| chem|st | Acce: you get the sympathy of the FOSS community and those are many | 13:44 |
| Nicd- | the_mgt: afaik FAT32 is free nowadays | 13:44 |
| Vynney | Nicd-: I've stopped looking at apple when they fucked over the (superior) PowerPC | 13:45 |
| chem|st | currently Jolla is not considered a player on the market | 13:45 |
| the_mgt | and the SDHC compatibility? putting a sticker on your device usually does not come free | 13:45 |
| chem|st | not even by my FOSS friends... | 13:45 |
| Nicd- | Vynney: I celebrated that change | 13:45 |
| tbr | Nicd-: there are ways to get around the FAT32 patents, so that you don't have to pay | 13:46 |
| chem|st | I got my sister hooked up on linux 4 years ago... she has a jolla | 13:46 |
| Nicd- | the_mgt: if it costs, it's a cost they *have* to take since not having SD at all would be really bad | 13:46 |
| Vynney | I got my bf to linux, hoping he'll be impressed by the jolla | 13:46 |
| chem|st | Vynney: +1 | 13:46 |
| Vynney | +1 for evangelising linux or for PowerPC's superiority? | 13:47 |
| chem|st | both ;) | 13:47 |
| * pahartik just got e-mail message from "jolla.com" that IPv6 PDP support for mobile network is being worked on | 13:47 | |
| the_mgt | Nicd-: so the question to me would be "how much more does exfat cost"? I do not care wether a fee goes to MS or not, I care wether I can use a memory device in the year 2014 which works on all three of my OSes without file size limitations from 1999 | 13:48 |
| Nicd- | the_mgt: I agree it would be nice to know how much it actually costs | 13:48 |
| chem|st | the_mgt: ext3? that is what I use when I need windows compatiblitity | 13:48 |
| Nicd- | chem|st: compatibility that's not out of the box is not compatibility :P | 13:49 |
| the_mgt | chem|st: without installing additional software | 13:49 |
| pp_ | see https://lkml.org/lkml/2009/6/26/314 for the vfat patent thing | 13:49 |
| Vynney | PDP's support IPv6? | 13:49 |
| tbr | pahartik: well we know tigeli has one of those SIMs too | 13:49 |
| the_mgt | chem|st: osx and win7 (maybe even vista) support exfat out of the box | 13:49 |
| Vynney | nvm | 13:49 |
| chem|st | there was a time where you needed to install a driver for every fscking USBstick so don't try to fuck me over with compatibility | 13:49 |
| tbr | Vynney: amusing name collision, it's not related to a DIGITAL computer | 13:49 |
| Nicd- | chem|st: and nobody wants those times back | 13:50 |
| the_mgt | exactly | 13:50 |
| Vynney | tbr-fi_: i thought it'd be weird | 13:50 |
| pp_ | as for cost of exfat licenses: http://en.finder.fi/IT-sovelluksia,%20IT-ohjelmistoja/Tuxera%20Oy/HELSINKI/economy/1971203 | 13:50 |
| pp_ | it's a good business | 13:50 |
| tbr | it's a PacketDataP-something | 13:50 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: so then let us talk about MTP! | 13:50 |
| chem|st | that doesn't even work on windows like expected | 13:51 |
| Nicd- | yeah, Jolla's MTP doesn't work on OS X at all | 13:51 |
| chem|st | that is something people run into on day one | 13:51 |
| Nicd- | and seems to be flaky on Windows | 13:51 |
| the_mgt | and it makes me sad | 13:51 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: it is not Jolla's mtp it is Microsoft... | 13:51 |
| Nicd- | jolla's implementation | 13:51 |
| Nicd- | but that's really just an argument that MTP sucks | 13:52 |
| chem|st | Win certified devices with MTP only fsck-up... that is a general problem | 13:52 |
| pahartik | tbr: And it is good to know that issue is being tracked | 13:53 |
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| chem|st | so what will be recognized by a user? that MTP sucks or that Jolla formatted their 2TB usbstick with btrfs? | 13:53 |
| flux | jolla should just run SMB over IP over USB | 13:53 |
| Nicd- | chem|st: the fact that Jolla does not work, and they will tell their friends Jolla sucks | 13:54 |
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| Nicd- | that is what will happen if the compatibility is not there | 13:54 |
| tbr | flux: feel free to help package samba properly... | 13:54 |
| Scelt | What is wrong with UDF? | 13:54 |
| tbr | flux: I have proof of concept packages, but couldn't be bothered to do something proper and up to date | 13:54 |
| the_mgt | Scelt: the problem is not "what is wrong", the problem is "cards are sold with exfat on them" | 13:54 |
| tigeli | pahartik: haha.. I wrote that email to you ;) | 13:54 |
| Vynney | I dont see | 13:54 |
| Vynney | the point | 13:54 |
| kimmoli | tbr: i'm still using them occassionally | 13:54 |
| tbr | kimmoli: :) | 13:54 |
| chem|st | flux: not even that... a suite that runs in any browser - connected to USB or to wifi should not matter | 13:55 |
| Scelt | the_mgt: thanks! clears it out | 13:55 |
| Vynney | Just include an Ubuntu CD the same way the 1st iPods came with an iTunes CD... | 13:55 |
| pahartik | tigeli: Acknowledged | 13:55 |
| Nicd- | Scelt: and if you reformat those cards, you're not allowed to call your slot SD anymore | 13:55 |
| the_mgt | Scelt: and from what I understand, you need to buy a license in order to advertise your device as "it can read 128gb sdxc cards" | 13:55 |
| phdeswer | chem|st: https://together.jolla.com/question/10002/alternative-to-mtp-usb-mass-storage/ There is mass-storage if you want | 13:55 |
| Vynney | btw | 13:55 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: you can call your slot SDHC as long as you support FAT... | 13:56 |
| Vynney | if I formatted my old iPod on a Mac, it was useless on Windows, so consumers are used to incompatibilities by the big companies | 13:56 |
| chem|st | the_mgt: jap | 13:56 |
| chem|st | phdeswer: there is no mass-storage | 13:57 |
| Nicd- | chem|st: but afaik not if you take in >32GB cards that you reformat so that they work | 13:57 |
| Scelt | the_mgt: I understand | 13:57 |
| phdeswer | chem|st: just go read the answer | 13:57 |
| Nicd- | Vynney: jolla is not big | 13:57 |
| the_mgt | chem|st: so, daddy gets 128gb card for christmas, he leaves the exfat on it, puts on all of his music and videos, inserts into jolla tablet. tablet says "we need to format your card in order to use it" | 13:57 |
| phdeswer | And there is also tohjblockd | 13:57 |
| the_mgt | he will be quite annoyed | 13:58 |
| chem|st | phdeswer: yes I know but I do not want to mount the sdcard on a computer... I want to have $user have access without knowing what is below the hood | 13:58 |
| the_mgt | (not that I really do believe in full compatibility, I needed to buy a 32gb nokia sd card in order to use it on my nokia C7. it choked on my noname 32gb card (which was compliant, accoding to the manufacturer)) | 13:59 |
| Vynney | Nicd-: yes but nearly _all_ phones come with shitty desktop software anyhow. | 13:59 |
| chem|st | phdeswer: what does mass-storage help a windows-kid when the SD is btrfs? | 13:59 |
| tadzik | mass-storage? What year is this | 13:59 |
| Vynney | Why not just include a LiveCD under the guise of a Desktop Mgmt App | 13:59 |
| tadzik | we only use this m*&$!@f&*#$@&@ mtp these days | 13:59 |
| phdeswer | chem|st: you always need to mount. And you should actually read the answer. | 13:59 |
| frzk | Vynney: who's using CD nowadays ? :P | 14:00 |
| Vynney | instead of Ubuntu or NerdixX, just call it the Jolla Management System | 14:00 |
| Vynney | then include a nonwritable usbstick, same thing | 14:01 |
| the_mgt | and tell your users how to enable usb device booting in the bios... | 14:01 |
| chem|st | phdeswer: what are you on about? | 14:02 |
| the_mgt | a fullblown vmware container that runs oob under windows might work, but usb device access is still tricky from a vm | 14:02 |
| Vynney | should people who don't know such basic tasks even be allowed to own a computer? it sounds like a waste of resources... | 14:02 |
| the_mgt | yes, they should properly better be converted to soylent green asap | 14:02 |
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| phdeswer | chem|st: it is simple. There are at least two hacks to get normal usb mass-storage available (as there is no official support). I linked one to you. Just read it and you will see you can get normal mass-storage behaviour from the device | 14:03 |
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| flux | tbr, great! though personally I'm just happy with scp/rsync ;). (assuming power saving doesn't kick in and foil my login attempts) | 14:03 |
| Scelt | rsync <3 | 14:03 |
| flux | chem|st, well, that'd be a nice option, but there are some security aspects in opening it to WiFi by default | 14:03 |
| flux | the power saving definitely breaks my ssh login more often than not.. | 14:04 |
| tbr | flux: yeah, I'm also using sshfs for a few things, that's essentially scp | 14:04 |
| tadzik | sshfs <3 | 14:04 |
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| flux | at one point I figured I should bridge my usb0 to local network. that way I would be able to just roam from wifi to usb. but I never used usb so there is that.. :) | 14:05 |
| Vynney | well, i guess just ask before enabling exFat, with a clear notice of how the patent owner uses the money to burn children with fire | 14:05 |
| chem|st | phdeswer: we are talking about 128GB sdcards, there is mass-storage as hacks, but what for? to export a 128GB btrfs if there is no exfat... | 14:06 |
| chem|st | flux: sure, it needs to be protected on wifi | 14:06 |
| phdeswer | chem|st: mass-storage and 128GB sd cards are two different things. | 14:06 |
| Vynney | I know plenty of people who arent nerds but understand the problems of the patent system, and they'd like to vote with their wallet | 14:06 |
| chem|st | phdeswer: and we are talking sdcards... | 14:06 |
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| chem|st | phdeswer: to be precise, I talk about "there is no need for exfat" as users barely use the sdcard they put into a tablet elsewhere | 14:07 |
| phdeswer | chem|st: don't drag mass-storage into it then. And if you want to export the SD over mass-storage that should be easy to do also. | 14:07 |
| chem|st | phdeswer: we don't want that | 14:08 |
| phdeswer | chem|st: that is often true yes. Thanks for the clarification as I did not get that from what you said earlier. | 14:08 |
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| chem|st | well at least not in that aspect, I'd love to have it at some point but $user does not | 14:08 |
| Vynney | I agree | 14:09 |
| Sail0r | as long as only Linux supports ext4 and btrfs the right way it's impossible to use anyother things then fat to satisfy all customers | 14:09 |
| Vynney | most people use SDcards in their phone/tablets as though they were harddrives | 14:09 |
| Vynney | noone actually has an SD-folder in my friendgroup (a modded floppy folder for organising your SD's) | 14:10 |
| phdeswer | Maybe ntfs... but don't know how tainted that is... | 14:10 |
| Sail0r | ntfs has no write support on osx ... | 14:11 |
| Vynney | but wtf | 14:11 |
| Vynney | btrfs os superior to NTFS and FAT in any imagineable way | 14:12 |
| phdeswer | Sail0r: well virtually nothing works on OSX | 14:12 |
| Sail0r | but not running on osx and windows | 14:12 |
| Sail0r | phdeswer: I know I have to work with it ;) | 14:12 |
| Vynney | phdeswer: thats how people like it | 14:12 |
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| Sail0r | but as a vendor you have to support the most base of people | 14:13 |
| Sail0r | *greatest user base | 14:13 |
| phdeswer | Sail0r: so unfortunately that is exFat atm | 14:13 |
| Sail0r | yep | 14:13 |
| Sail0r | which sucks | 14:13 |
| Sail0r | ^^ | 14:13 |
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| Vynney | Nicd- just told my not to hate, but the way MS is trying to force it's way into _my_ potential stuff and even gets paid for it is rather unforgiveable | 14:14 |
| Vynney | im glad this is the tablet | 14:15 |
| ggabriel | you realize that m$ may be getting money regardless of exfat, right? | 14:15 |
| ggabriel | i mean, big companies have a hell of a lot of patents | 14:15 |
| Vynney | from jolla? | 14:15 |
| ggabriel | from anybody doing anything | 14:15 |
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| Nicd- | you should be angry at SD for making exfat mandatory | 14:16 |
| Vynney | so jolla is really like any other phone? | 14:16 |
| flux | vynney, one real way it's not better: handling disk-full-situations ;) | 14:16 |
| phdeswer | Well I hope it is clear how difficult it is for Jolla to balance things. exFAT might be good for the regular user that Jolla needs to grow, at the same time there is the techy, open source user that does not want it... | 14:16 |
| Vynney | MS gets 70% of profit while failing with WP? | 14:16 |
| flux | also I understand fragmentation is an issue with btrfs, but perhaps less so with non-rotational media | 14:16 |
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| Nicd- | flux: yeah, btrfs on the jolla has been pretty terrible in some situations | 14:17 |
| Vynney | plz dont tell me MS gets more than 5% of the profit on a Jolla1 | 14:17 |
| Sail0r | as they aquired nokia and they have a lot of patents | 14:17 |
| Sail0r | why not? | 14:17 |
| flux | even dealing with situations where you have <1GB free can be troublesome with btrfs. not great ending up in a situation where you cannot remove files, because you don't have enough space to do it ;-) | 14:17 |
| phdeswer | btrfs is pretty terrible. It is not even stable now in the latest versions in the kernel | 14:18 |
| flux | but nowadays btrfs has a 'mixed' storage mode, which might be a better fit to low-capacity devices such as jolla. | 14:18 |
| Ram-Z | Hi, I can't enable developer mode after a factory reset, any ideas? | 14:18 |
| Vynney | btrfs isnt 4 phones | 14:18 |
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| Vynney | ext or f2fs | 14:18 |
| Tegu | Ram-Z: are you connected to internet? (dunno, no other suggestions) | 14:18 |
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| Vynney | Tegu: hes on irc | 14:19 |
| flux | well, btrfs has snapshotting, and jolla even makes use of it. could even use more of it. | 14:19 |
| flux | and btrfs has compression. | 14:19 |
| Ram-Z | Tegu: yes but the jolla accont, is it needed? | 14:19 |
| ggabriel | Ram-Z: probably... | 14:19 |
| Tegu | Ram-Z: humm, actually it might be needed | 14:19 |
| flux | ram-z, it is needed to access the repositories where it retrieves dev-mode stuff | 14:19 |
| Tegu | Vynney: duh :P he might use irc with some other device | 14:19 |
| Tegu | /she/it | 14:20 |
| Vynney | oh yeah | 14:20 |
| Ram-Z | damn... I'm missing half my words there :/ but you got what I meant | 14:20 |
| Ram-Z | ok thx | 14:20 |
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| Vynney | afk | 14:21 |
| Ram-Z | and I can't restore backups either without being connected to the jolla account? | 14:23 |
| phdeswer | btrfs was chosen because of the snapshotting. Unfortunately the issues only showed up when the device was launched | 14:24 |
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| ggabriel | it's an oldish kernel too | 14:24 |
| ggabriel | btrfs got better ofc in more modern kernels | 14:24 |
| phdeswer | ggabriel: it did. But it still sucks atm. | 14:25 |
| ggabriel | never tried it to be fair | 14:25 |
| phdeswer | Not recommended atm still afaik. | 14:26 |
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| ggabriel | it's experimental, yes | 14:26 |
| ggabriel | but there are a lot of people using it | 14:27 |
| phdeswer | Well it is very shiny ;) | 14:27 |
| Ram-Z | btrfs works great on my desktop | 14:28 |
| Ram-Z | what kind of issues are you having on the phone? | 14:28 |
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| anYc | well, it's even the default for some distributions | 14:30 |
| flux | technically the 'experimental' flag was remoevd from the kernel configuration | 14:31 |
| flux | ..but really, it is ;-) | 14:31 |
| Sail0r | it's still tech preview in rhel | 14:31 |
| anYc | it works for me but I do nothing fancy except using snapshots | 14:32 |
| Sail0r | why not lvm for snapshots? | 14:32 |
| flux | lvm snapshotting has worse performance | 14:32 |
| Nicd- | Ram-Z: btrfs uses up all space on the device sometimes | 14:33 |
| Nicd- | then you can't do anything, not even remove files in some cases | 14:33 |
| Nicd- | of course the UI and everything start to crash | 14:33 |
| flux | well, it's not really btrfs taking the space :). but indeed, out-of-disk-space-issues are somewhat severe with btrfs. | 14:34 |
| flux | you probably need to run a manual rebalance and then you may be able to recover | 14:34 |
| Nicd- | flux: it's btrfs allocating all the space | 14:34 |
| lainwir3d | I love bleeding edge things | 14:34 |
| flux | really sad Jolla is unable to deliver 'basic images' for us to flash to the device to get it into a working consumption | 14:34 |
| flux | nicd-, well it doesn't do it all by itself, it allocates on demand | 14:34 |
| flux | consumption? condition. | 14:34 |
| Ram-Z | Nicd-: you would have this problem with any snapshotting fs | 14:34 |
| Nicd- | flux: I had about 4 GB of the 16 used when I had my btrfs full problem | 14:35 |
| Nicd- | after 2 or 3 months of usage | 14:35 |
| flux | you may have had a higher allocation state at certain point | 14:35 |
| Nicd- | nope, I never put anything huge on it | 14:35 |
| flux | one aspect of the issue is that it allocates metadata and realdata space separately in 512M and 1G chunks | 14:35 |
| Ram-Z | I haven't run into that on the phone, but on my desktop it was because I had poor snapshot managment... | 14:35 |
| Nicd- | so it can totally allocate all that stuff without the user filling the fs | 14:35 |
| flux | I think more likely it was some bug that caused the disk space to be eaten at some point and then released... | 14:36 |
| Ram-Z | I just left them in and the disk filled up, df didn't notice ofc | 14:36 |
| ggabriel | the fact that df can't report properly is a major bug already | 14:36 |
| flux | df works if you don't have raid in use? | 14:37 |
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| flux | actually they've addressed that very recently, with some 'correction factor' IIRC | 14:37 |
| Nicd- | flux: df doesn't report how much space the fs is taking | 14:37 |
| lainwir3d | well df does it's job actually I think | 14:38 |
| lainwir3d | reports used space by files | 14:38 |
| lainwir3d | the fs part should be transparent I think | 14:38 |
| lainwir3d | the user should not have to care about it | 14:39 |
| Vynney | i just heard there's gonna be a new star wars movie | 14:39 |
| Nicd- | currently I have 10.75 GB used of 13.75 GB (btrfs) while I only have 5.5 GB used in reality | 14:40 |
| Nicd- | guess I have to rebalance again soon | 14:40 |
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| lainwir3d | wait, what | 14:42 |
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| lainwir3d | how come you all have 14GB in total ? | 14:42 |
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| lainwir3d | I only have 8 | 14:42 |
| Ram-Z | df reports actual file usage it is not aware of snapshots or btrfs metadata | 14:42 |
| flux | nicd-, how do you determine that 5.5GB? | 14:42 |
| Nicd- | lainwir3d: btrfs fi show? | 14:42 |
| lainwir3d | Nicd-: oh no sorry, my bad | 14:42 |
| Nicd- | flux: in the "About" section in settings | 14:42 |
| lainwir3d | wrong reading | 14:42 |
| Nicd- | df -h tells me 5.2G | 14:43 |
| Ram-Z | the only proper way is btrfs fi df / | 14:43 |
| flux | well, there is also the factory reset snapshot | 14:43 |
| AL13N_work | newer btrfs has even usage command... | 14:43 |
| flux | nicd-, df -h tells you 5.2G is available or used? | 14:43 |
| Nicd- | flux: used | 14:43 |
| Nicd- | lemme screenshot it for you | 14:44 |
| Nicd- | no actually I won't, since younited is broken after the latest update... | 14:45 |
| Nicd- | :| | 14:45 |
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| Nicd- | well, btrfs fi df / says Data: total=10.08GB, used=4.87GB | 14:47 |
| flux | so that plus metadata is pretty close to 5.5 GB.. ? | 14:48 |
| Nicd- | metadata used is 145.81MB | 14:49 |
| Nicd- | total is 330MB | 14:49 |
| Ram-Z | that looks pretty ok | 14:50 |
| ggabriel | mine is very similar fwiw | 14:50 |
| ggabriel | obviously depends on the usage | 14:50 |
| Nicd- | yeah, but it has allocated 10.75 GB already | 14:53 |
| Nicd- | was 9.75 a while ago | 14:53 |
| Nicd- | so rebalance time in the future' | 14:53 |
| flux | well, unless you expect to load tons of small files to your device, it doesn't probably help that much to reduce the amount allocated for data | 14:54 |
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| flux | as there's plenty of free space allocated for metadata | 14:55 |
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| Vynney | so the "shipment canceled" thing is a fedex bug? | 15:38 |
| phdeswer | Vynney: most likely. I can't think of any reason why Jolla would cancel a shipment | 15:40 |
| Vynney | ok | 15:40 |
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| Vynney | googled for it, found some people at maemo.org also refer to this 'bug', i guess its okay | 15:41 |
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| Vynney | the tracking page says it'll be here by friday | 15:41 |
| Vynney | i'll be leaving for the weekend at early friday evening/late afternood | 15:42 |
| Vynney | hope i'll have it before I leave | 15:42 |
| Vynney | if I have time to cut/switch my SIM card, that'd be even cooler | 15:43 |
| Vynney | I'm hoping WhatsApp will still be somewhat usable | 15:44 |
| tadzik | . o O ( I hope it dies in a fire :P ) | 15:45 |
| Vynney | me too | 15:45 |
| Vynney | but my friends use it for group discussions | 15:46 |
| Stskeeps | whatsapp etc makes me wonder what would have happened if people hadn't frowned upon the additions to irc protocol for all types of weird stuff ranging from pictures to smilies, video chat, etc.. | 15:46 |
| Vynney | plz | 15:46 |
| Nicd- | can I vote down in the microsd poll? :) | 15:46 |
| Nicd- | or is it just vote-up? | 15:47 |
| ggabriel | Nicd-: you can but it costs you | 15:47 |
| Vynney | Stskeeps: irc would have been killed by incompatibilities, MS would have released MSIRC which woundt work with iIRC | 15:47 |
| Stskeeps | they kinda did | 15:48 |
| Stskeeps | ms comic chat? | 15:48 |
| Vynney | yeah, but even the comics were 'readable' | 15:48 |
| Vynney | just dogshit annoying on other clients, but thats more of a spam issue | 15:48 |
| Nicd- | ggabriel: what will it cost? | 15:48 |
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| ggabriel | Nicd-: can't remember... maybe a bit of karma | 15:49 |
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| Vynney | to support video and audio chat, you'd need a protocol for it. then you'd have IRC for txt, probably SIP for video, DCC for sending stuff and emoticons implemented client-side | 15:50 |
| Stskeeps | CTCP.. :P | 15:50 |
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| Vynney | yeah | 15:50 |
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| Vynney | DCC and CTCP are seperate protocols on top of irc afaik | 15:50 |
| Vynney | b/c irc is early 80s tech | 15:51 |
| Vynney | i love irc | 15:51 |
| Vynney | but the protocol would get even more bloated if it were to support audio and videochat | 15:51 |
| Vynney | it'd be like X11 compositing | 15:51 |
| Vynney | when it comes to audio and video chat, im glad very few of my friends use skype | 15:52 |
| Nicd- | IRC is late 80s | 15:52 |
| Vynney | really? | 15:53 |
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| Vynney | hm | 15:53 |
| Nicd- | 1988 | 15:53 |
| Vynney | it seems you're right. I'm sorry | 15:53 |
| Nicd- | I remember it by heart :D | 15:53 |
| Vynney | im from '91 | 15:54 |
| Vynney | but i love old tech | 15:54 |
| Vynney | especially unix stuff nowadays | 15:56 |
| Vynney | even though I grew up with macs | 15:56 |
| Vynney | I have an original edition "The C Programming Language" book, and a (albeit defective) SparcStation 1 that I keep on my "altar" | 16:00 |
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| japa-fi | Re: all the compability talk some hours ago (just read the log): What about: jolla to format huge memory cards with additional small partition that includes software for windows to read the ext4 / xrfs / younameit filesystem that is on the memory card's main (128Gb) parition? | 16:04 |
| Vynney | not really an altar where I'd pray or sacrifice animals, but more like a table where I keep stuff that I like having, showing and using ('cept for the sparc, but I might get an HP9k from a friend) | 16:04 |
| japa-fi | I do recall the time when USB drives came with small partition containing the makers crappy software for additional "features" | 16:05 |
| Vynney | i thought of that too | 16:05 |
| ggabriel | the first thing i'd do is eliminate that partition | 16:05 |
| the_mgt | the problem is not the fs compatibility, the problem is the advertising and that cards are solled with exFAT | 16:05 |
| ggabriel | and it'd piss me off if i couldn't | 16:05 |
| japa-fi | Me too, but for the non-techies.. | 16:05 |
| ggabriel | non techies can buy an android phone :) | 16:05 |
| ggabriel | or tablet | 16:05 |
| ggabriel | they don't have sd card reader so they'll be fine | 16:05 |
| ggabriel | but more seriously, i think that's a hack, not a solution | 16:06 |
| the_mgt | jolla wants to put a sticker "supports sdxc/128gb" on the device. in order to do that it needs to buy a license. the technical details under the hood are another problem | 16:06 |
| ggabriel | s/a licence/another licence/ | 16:06 |
| ggabriel | you can't go to the toilet without a licence | 16:07 |
| flux | so, apparently the license is $2.5k/year. | 16:07 |
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| Vynney | japa-fi: they're trying to get the "main market". Look at any "normal" person around you. They're so technically retarded you'll cry yourself to sleap if you'd watch them use a computer, and _none_ of them knows of such silly things as "manuals" so they'll never learn either. | 16:07 |
| flux | it would probably be the lowest-cost license of all the licenses jolla is paying for, if that is the correct figure. | 16:07 |
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| japa-fi | Vynney, Yeah. My parents have had hard time learning away from the windows "Oh, I bought some device, I need to install the drivers from the accompanying CD" -dogma. Time and time again I need to told them: "You have linux, you don't need the driver CD". They are starting to learn it. Unfortunately I still need to advice them on what hardware can be purchased (ie. what is supported) | 16:09 |
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| Vynney | some people have a problem with installing software on linux from a repo and a gui (like Ubuntu softwarecentre, but really any package manager with a gui), but have no problem blatantly clicking "Yes, Accept, Next, Next, Next, Done" on some app downloaded from any random site | 16:13 |
| Vynney | using no adblockers so theres tons of fake 'Download' buttons that actually get pressed (that's why they're there, ofc) | 16:14 |
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| nbg23 | hi. I just read on tjc that some android applications create notifications even when they are not open. how does that work? I mean, some process still must be open in order to create the notification so.. which process is that? | 16:19 |
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| suosaaski | well, one option might be android push notifications from cloud? | 16:20 |
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| mornfall | nbg23: aliendalvik.service | 16:20 |
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| nbg23 | ok, thanks. never used android before jolla (or any other smartphone, for that matter). | 16:22 |
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| mornfall | nbg23: it works differently on real android | 16:25 |
| mornfall | somewhat, anyway | 16:25 |
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| the_mgt | flux: 2500$? the whole discussion probably already wasted that much in human rescources.... | 16:31 |
| the_mgt | not counting bandwith and power fees :D | 16:31 |
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| the_mgt | Nicd-: thanks for spellchecking | 16:31 |
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| Vynney | is there any soundset online from sailfishos? | 16:35 |
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| Vynney | what do messages, calls, etc. sound like? | 16:35 |
| Vynney | do they use the KDE soundset? | 16:35 |
| the_mgt | you are looking for ringtones, etc? | 16:36 |
| Vynney | yes | 16:36 |
| the_mgt | http://www.jollausers.com/2013/08/jollaringtone2/ I dont know if the links still work | 16:37 |
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| Vynney | wow | 16:41 |
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| * Vynney cant wait till friday | 16:41 | |
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| Vynney | and is the screen really that bad? im coming from a 320x480 3something display | 16:42 |
| japa-fi | I can't wait till tomorrow, I'll be receiving my jolla | 16:42 |
| tadzik | I don't find it bad at all | 16:43 |
| SK_work | :) | 16:43 |
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| SK_work | Vynney: the screen is average | 16:43 |
| japa-fi | Just can't make up my mind if I should go for the other half keyboard. | 16:43 |
| SK_work | not as good as the N9 | 16:43 |
| SK_work | the N9 was nice | 16:43 |
| japa-fi | Still some 20 hours to decide | 16:43 |
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| SK_work | the screen is not outstanding, but not bad | 16:43 |
| SK_work | it do it work | 16:43 |
| SK_work | hope the tablet is better | 16:43 |
| Vynney | the resolution noted on the site is quite big on my 1366x768 14"laptop | 16:43 |
| flux | the_mgt, my sentiments exactly. though I don't know if that is indeed the correct number. | 16:44 |
| Vynney | for any jolla2, i'd rather have an (am)oled at this resolution than an LCD at a ridiculously high resolution | 16:46 |
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| SK_work | Vynney: I want the "glance screen" (LPM) thing | 16:47 |
| SK_work | IIRC it is with oled | 16:47 |
| mornfall | Vynney: the screen is average, so is the build... hardware-wise, tohkbd is probably the only interesting thing about jolla | 16:49 |
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| mornfall | Vynney: whether you “believe” in the software or not is what makes all the difference, I guess | 16:49 |
| mornfall | I'm pretty disgruntled right now about that, but I guess Jolla is trying | 16:50 |
| Tegu | jolla2? The world doesn't need yet another smartphone | 16:50 |
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| chem|st | Tegu: my jolla is falling apart - it is time for a new one | 16:51 |
| tadzik | not a very durable build, it seems | 16:51 |
| mornfall | tadzik: as cheap as it could get, presumably | 16:51 |
| SK_work | mine is in a pretty good shape | 16:52 |
| chem|st | nope, as said earlier, the plastic-frame of the display broke somehow | 16:52 |
| SK_work | despite having it fall everywhere | 16:52 |
| mornfall | the fact you need to clean battery contacts regularly to avoid the phone dying on you all the time is a cherry on top :P | 16:52 |
| the_mgt | Vynney: there are far worse screens and of course better ones. It is ok for normal usage. If you are a photo guy, mabye not good enough | 16:52 |
| mornfall | I guess contact material that'd resist oxidation was expensive. :) | 16:52 |
| chem|st | SK_work: I did not recognize it till yesterday, it is barely visible but you feel it when you scratch along with your fingernail | 16:52 |
| stephg | pretty durable for me, dropped more times than I can remember, tripped the moisture sensor, never cleaned the contacts and is currently for me 352 days old | 16:53 |
| the_mgt | mornfall: use the "add some paper" hack to have more pressure on the contacts | 16:53 |
| mornfall | the_mgt: doesn't help, not for long anyway | 16:53 |
| stephg | not done a factory reset since xmas '13 either | 16:53 |
| mornfall | the_mgt: there's a clearly visible layer of oxide on the contacts after a few months | 16:53 |
| the_mgt | mornfall: then you are not using enough pressure :D | 16:53 |
| chem|st | stephg: mine is the same age | 16:53 |
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| mornfall | the_mgt: should I use a hammer do you think? :P | 16:55 |
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| the_mgt | a small one, maybe... | 16:55 |
| Tegu | it's so weird that I haven't have reboots in ages. got some like half an year ago during a fairly short period. I guess the update helped, then. and I haven't cleaned the contcts or anything | 16:55 |
| Vynney | i make photos, but i usually dont judge them untill I watch them on a pc/laptop | 16:58 |
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| Vynney | Tegu: i think there will be a jolla to before the end of 2017 | 16:59 |
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| Vynney | s/to/two/ | 16:59 |
| Vynney | im hoping not too soon | 17:00 |
| Tegu | Vynney: okay. well, I just quoted Jolla's own site :P | 17:00 |
| Vynney | so that s/w gets more optimized | 17:00 |
| Vynney | Tegu: i think they'll definitely not release too soon | 17:00 |
| Vynney | that might be the reason for the tablet | 17:01 |
| Tegu | yea,true | 17:01 |
| Vynney | that way, they'd get atleast the same amount of headlines as with a jolla phone, without fragmenting their phone market | 17:01 |
| Vynney | and all the more money to sailfish | 17:02 |
| Vynney | them going for tablets is also going to go well for the phone, just like how linux on the desktop improves by mobile optimisations and how your office linux deployment is improving in speed & stability from the 'gaming-related' work and fixes on the intel gpu driver | 17:04 |
| Vynney | using the same 'things' differently is a quick way to find design flaws and iron them out for everybody | 17:04 |
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| Tegu | yup, I guess they want to license the sailfish to other vendors, too (at least they said something along those lines in some quick slush clips I saw. IIRC) | 17:05 |
| Vynney | im hoping they'd have open sourced their UI before that happens | 17:05 |
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| Vynney | also hoping that maybe they'll try using some KF5 libs | 17:07 |
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| Vynney | more for the UI than KF5 | 17:08 |
| Vynney | tbh I'm running GNOME 3 now | 17:09 |
| Vynney | but KDE 5 makes me really excited | 17:09 |
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| Vynney | i wasnt fond of KDE4, when it came out it was cool but unusable and by the time it became usable it just felt rather 'meh'. KDE5 just gets more of that 3-series KFeel. I think it's really Kool and now that it's more modular, LXQT is also planning to use it. | 17:12 |
| Vynney | ofc KDE has KDE-Plasma | 17:13 |
| Vynney | and Plasma-Active | 17:13 |
| SK_work | Vynney: Plasma 2 (as it is not KDE5) is not really like KDE3 | 17:13 |
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| Vynney | no | 17:13 |
| SK_work | more flat design, but much like KDE4 Plasma 1 | 17:13 |
| * SK_work runs Plasma 2 on "desktop" | 17:13 | |
| Vynney | but it feels more like 3 | 17:13 |
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| Vynney | even though it looks the same | 17:14 |
| SK_work | Vynney: what do you mean "feels more like 3" ? | 17:14 |
| Vynney | a lot more stable and predictable | 17:15 |
| Vynney | though its not that stable now | 17:15 |
| Vynney | it feels more predictable | 17:15 |
| SK_work | Vynney: want stability = KDE 4.13 | 17:15 |
| SK_work | really really stable | 17:15 |
| SK_work | (IMO) | 17:15 |
| Vynney | I know, it also has a lot more widgets atm | 17:16 |
| SK_work | what I like in Plasma 2 is the use / abuse of QML | 17:16 |
| SK_work | so less plasma crashes | 17:16 |
| Vynney | it uses QT5 | 17:16 |
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| Vynney | sorry | 17:16 |
| SK_work | Qt | 17:16 |
| Vynney | Qt5 | 17:16 |
| SK_work | :)* | 17:16 |
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| Vynney | didn't Qt used to have a different capitalisation? | 17:17 |
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| SK_work | hum ? | 17:18 |
| Vynney | apparently not, even Qt3 has a lower case 3 | 17:18 |
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| Vynney | never used 1 and 2, so they'd be an invalid argument for confusion between either | 17:19 |
| SK_work | lowercase 3 Oo | 17:20 |
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| SK_work | lowercase t you mean :) | 17:20 |
| Vynney | yes | 17:20 |
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| * Vynney slaps himself around with a large trout | 17:22 | |
| Vynney | i really miss the times when nearly everyone on irc had a plugin for slapping people with trouts | 17:23 |
| raa700 | isn't that one of out of the box "scripts" in mirc | 17:25 |
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| Vynney | really? | 17:37 |
| Vynney | i've used mirc 2 or 3 times | 17:37 |
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| Vynney | never really liked it as much as any of the alternatives | 17:38 |
| Vynney | also b/c i started using irc mostly for knoppix and (later) ubuntu support channels, I rarely used irc on windows | 17:40 |
| * Vynney talks too much | 17:41 | |
| Vynney | I think i'm flooding this channel, im off to play EU4 and please ye with my absence | 17:42 |
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| c0ck4m0u53 | Ok guys silly question ahead:D I would like to install rtorrent. Is it possible just to install all the dependencies and the rtorrent package strait from rpmfind.net using fedoras prebuilt packages? | 17:52 |
| tbr | c0ck4m0u53: I very very much doubt so | 17:53 |
| c0ck4m0u53 | tbr: tought so:) despite rtorrent being cli only | 17:55 |
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| SK_work | c0ck4m0u53: isn't there a build of rtorrent already ? | 17:59 |
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| SK_work | maybe check neildk's repo | 18:00 |
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| c0ck4m0u53 | SK_work: was looking for it, but could not find it, theres only transmission one | 18:00 |
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| Yaniel | c0ck4m0u53: there probably are no armv7hl builds of it | 18:03 |
| c0ck4m0u53 | Yaniel: it looks like you are right:D | 18:05 |
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| tbr | c0ck4m0u53: It shouldn't be too hard to take the RPM spec files and other bits of packaging and set up a build on Mer OBS against the Sailfish target | 18:07 |
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| c0ck4m0u53 | tbr: havent done it before, but ill look into it. Thanks for the help | 18:08 |
| Yaniel | while we are at it, what is needed to get a random OSS project on OBS? | 18:12 |
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| Yaniel | I suppose I'd prefer building a rpm that provides both dynamic and static versions of libsodium and libtoxcore on OBS id possible | 18:13 |
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| Acce | c0ck4m0u53: you need to have armv7hl binaries | 18:18 |
| Acce | woops | 18:18 |
| Acce | forgot to scroll | 18:18 |
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| AL13N | i reserverd my uCase too | 19:10 |
| AL13N | *reserved | 19:10 |
| * AL13N hopes that some of that money goes to jolla for development purposes | 19:10 | |
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| coderus | what is ucase? | 19:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | I would guess it is a one millionth scale model of a real case. | 19:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Or a Jolla-themed onesie. | 19:34 |
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| Nicd- | anyone had their Jolla notifying of a new email with a sound and vibration but there being no notification=? | 20:00 |
| Nicd- | there's still new email if I go to the email app | 20:01 |
| Nicd- | I've had this for a few times now | 20:01 |
| Acce | Nicd-: yeah | 20:01 |
| Acce | I have it occasionally | 20:01 |
| Acce | quite often actually, mostly the notifications are displayed normally though | 20:01 |
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| mornfall | I have seen different variations (vibration and a notification but no light, most recently) | 20:04 |
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| mornfall | also a neverending vibration (like a phone call) until I unlock the phone | 20:04 |
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| mornfall | (this happened also before I enabled IDLE) | 20:07 |
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| RavenholmDX | Hey there | 21:04 |
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| Toxip | Hello | 21:06 |
| RavenholmDX | How are you this evening Toxip? | 21:06 |
| Toxip | wonderful, thanks for asking, and you? | 21:06 |
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| RavenholmDX | Not too bad now | 21:07 |
| RavenholmDX | Jolla is currently in France | 21:07 |
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| RavenholmDX | should be here on Monday | 21:07 |
| Toxip | really? | 21:07 |
| Toxip | that sounds cool | 21:07 |
| RavenholmDX | Yeah, can't wait | 21:08 |
| Toxip | what is the best channel to ask for help in Qt/QML Sailfish coding? | 21:08 |
| RavenholmDX | #sailfishos | 21:08 |
| kimmoli | #sailfishos | 21:08 |
| Toxip | alright, I'll head there | 21:08 |
| Toxip | been coding this small game for sailfish ^^ | 21:08 |
| Toxip | QML is fun :) | 21:09 |
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| eyea_UK | Jolla )0!1@ joh | 21:19 |
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| onurati | hey Sailors! Any ideas how to find out which rpm package is in what repo? Is there a list or similar? | 22:28 |
| special | easiest way is 'zypper info' | 22:29 |
| onurati | I am specifically looking for a way to download qtcore 5.1.0, for example. | 22:29 |
| special | assuming you have zypper installed | 22:29 |
| special | in my case, 'zypper info qt5-qtcore' says it's in the mer-qt repository, and 'ssu lr' gives me the URL for that | 22:30 |
| onurati | special: Thanks, in my case it reads jolla as repository | 22:31 |
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| special | yeah, mine will be different | 22:32 |
| onurati | special: how to fetch it now with curl, I mean how to find the exact path? | 22:32 |
| special | well, did ssu lr give you a usable URL? | 22:33 |
| onurati | unfortunately my ssu is broken due to Qt mismatch | 22:33 |
| special | oof. | 22:33 |
| onurati | that's what I'm trying to fix by downgrading | 22:33 |
| special | let's see if I can find it.. | 22:33 |
| onurati | i have a list of URLs for the repos, but I guess that alone is not enough | 22:35 |
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| onurati | for instance jolla is at https://releases.jolla.com/releases/latest/jolla/armv7hl/ | 22:36 |
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| onurati | which does not allow dir listing | 22:36 |
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| special | annoying | 22:37 |
| special | do you know the exact version you need? | 22:38 |
| onurati | yes, qt5-qtcore-5.1.0+git37-1.15.2.armv7hl with its dependencies | 22:38 |
| special | surprisingly difficult to get those off of that server. | 22:39 |
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| onurati | yes, I am a bit disappointed actually | 22:40 |
| onurati | have not noticed up to now that Jolla is that restrictive with the binaries | 22:41 |
| onurati | special: thanks for checking anyway! | 22:42 |
| special | somewhat confused. that server doesn't match the layout I expected it to have | 22:45 |
| onurati | it actually should look like this (I thought): https://releases.jolla.com/releases/1.08.21/jolla/armv7hl/qt/armv7hl/qt5-qtcore-5.1.0+git37-1.15.2.armv7hl | 22:47 |
| special | with .rpm on the end, yeah | 22:47 |
| onurati | True, but no luck. | 22:48 |
| special | well, there's the annoying manual way of finding out | 22:48 |
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| phaeron | do you have zypper ? | 22:50 |
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| special | onurati: oh, you made a tiny mistake | 22:50 |
| special | there is no . between 0 and 8 in your version | 22:50 |
| special | https://releases.jolla.com/releases/1.0.8.21/jolla/armv7hl/qt/armv7hl/qt5-qtcore-5.1.0+git37-1.15.2.armv7hl.rpm works | 22:50 |
| onurati | phaeron: zypper is dead | 22:50 |
| phaeron | how did you do that ? :D | 22:50 |
| phaeron | how is it broken ? | 22:52 |
| onurati | phaeron: everything started with removing jolla-camera and reinstalling it | 22:52 |
| phaeron | probably because you are using "latest" as release apparently | 22:53 |
| onurati | then some newer pkgs were installed I guess... then I tried a "refresh" and things got worse | 22:53 |
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| phaeron | in which case it is a bad idea to install only one app | 22:53 |
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| onurati | special: that didn't help me either, I still get "302 Found" with curl | 22:53 |
| special | onurati: add -L to curl | 22:54 |
| onurati | phaeron: my camera stopped working in UI and it was functional in the CSD tool...then I just followed the guidelines on together.jolla.com :-) | 22:54 |
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| phaeron | onurati: setting the ssu release to something unofficial without doing proper update is a really bad idea | 22:55 |
| phaeron | which together page did you use ? maybe there is a mistake there or something | 22:56 |
| onurati | special: yes, -L helped, thanks! | 22:56 |
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| onurati | phaeron: didn't set the ssu release manually. https://together.jolla.com/question/55888/both-cameras-do-not-work/ | 22:58 |
| special | oof | 22:58 |
| special | "then accept any changes" | 22:58 |
| onurati | phaeron: after the reboot, the phone did not boot anymore | 22:59 |
| onurati | I figured out it actually did, but with a black screen | 22:59 |
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| onurati | luckily I have ssh connection now | 22:59 |
| phaeron | that is a very bad way of doing things .. | 23:00 |
| phaeron | onurati: did you have warehouse or something similar installed ? | 23:00 |
| onurati | unfortunately, yes | 23:00 |
| onurati | I suspected openrepos, too | 23:00 |
| phaeron | so probably it tinkered with the ssu settings | 23:00 |
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| phaeron | if you can get working zypper / ssu you can downgrade hopefully | 23:01 |
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| onurati | probably, yes. My first command after getting ssh was to remove the openrepos from the list. | 23:01 |
| phaeron | it doesn't help at this stage :D | 23:01 |
| onurati | yes, I have the names of my previous state. Just need to download the ones I updated lately | 23:02 |
| phaeron | when you run ssu it still errors out ? | 23:02 |
| onurati | thanks to rpm -qa --last, I can see that less than 10 pkgs have been updated to release. | 23:03 |
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| onurati | ssu lr reads: [F] QObjectPrivate::QObjectPrivate:203 - Cannot mix incompatible Qt library (version 0x50100) with this library (version 0x50202) | 23:03 |
| onurati | Aborted | 23:03 |
| phaeron | ugh | 23:03 |
| onurati | because qtcore is newer than the rest | 23:04 |
| onurati | i guess | 23:04 |
| phaeron | you downloaded the older one, maybe install it then | 23:04 |
| onurati | i will, but i will need some more dependency files... I will leave that fun for tomorrow | 23:05 |
| onurati | thanks to you both for the help. | 23:05 |
| phaeron | ok, | 23:06 |
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