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| lainwir3d | hi | 08:51 |
|---|---|---|
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| lainwir3d | it's going too slow :-( we won't get to $1.750.000 :-( | 09:01 |
| SK_work | lainwir3d: well | 09:01 |
| SK_work | let's see | 09:01 |
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| SK_work | maybe it won't even reach 1.5M | 09:02 |
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| lainwir3d | maybe | 09:03 |
| lainwir3d | but I'm more interested in split screen than SDXC | 09:03 |
| matrixx | I would have hoped for the 3.5G, but no chance :( | 09:03 |
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| SK_work | lainwir3d: me too | 09:04 |
| SK_work | matrixx: well, 2.5M is a bit too high I would say | 09:04 |
| matrixx | indeed :/ | 09:05 |
| lainwir3d | yeah :/ | 09:05 |
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| PaulePanter | Hi. I thought there was a Sailfish OS update planned for November, but besides the Beta invitation I didn’t see one yet. | 09:34 |
| PaulePanter | Is there a status post somewhere? | 09:34 |
| SK_work | PaulePanter: the nov update is delayed I guess | 09:34 |
| ggabriel | i'm pretty sure it's delayed as it's 1 dec :P | 09:35 |
| tbr | PaulePanter: the only thing we saw was the content post and aard mentioning that he created RC1 at some point | 09:35 |
| PaulePanter | Ok, thanks. Too bad. | 09:36 |
| PaulePanter | Also, if I see a bug, can I easily run a script getting all the logs from the phone? | 09:37 |
| PaulePanter | Like | 09:37 |
| PaulePanter | `reportbug` in Debian for example? | 09:37 |
| tbr | there is a crash collector that Stskeeps sometimes points out | 09:37 |
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| tbr | but that requires the process to segfault or unexpectedly die otherwise | 09:37 |
| PaulePanter | tbr: Ok, thanks. | 09:38 |
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| Shihua_ | when will have update? | 10:07 |
| Shihua_ | about 3 months. | 10:07 |
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| Shihua_ | Just Jolla tablet,nothing is about sailfish os | 10:08 |
| SK_work | meh | 10:09 |
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| Stskeeps | it's so cold in finland our coder fingers have frozen, sorry | 10:10 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:10 |
| swan|PC | 1.1.0.39 to 2.0 directly.lol. ;) | 10:10 |
| Shihua_ | my phone receive many message | 10:10 |
| Shihua_ | it reboot | 10:10 |
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| Shihua_ | so cold | 10:11 |
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| Shihua_ | i konw ,but jolla said the update once a month | 10:12 |
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| Stskeeps | we aim for that, things don't always go like in the movies | 10:12 |
| Shihua_ | But i can see what jolla sorry about that | 10:13 |
| Shihua_ | can not | 10:13 |
| ggabriel | will an apology change anything? | 10:14 |
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| Scelt | Stskeeps: hey handsome, remember not to be angry with us for demanding update once a month. It's not us who shout it in every possible marketing material to get customers... | 10:14 |
| Stskeeps | i'm handsome? | 10:14 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:14 |
| Scelt | Stskeeps: Ja, det trot jag | 10:15 |
| Scelt | tror | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | ah, but not swedish | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:15 |
| Scelt | I know. But can't make it danish without google and that would be lame | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 10:15 |
| Scelt | I've watched the Bron series but gotta say, haven't learned many new danish words there :P | 10:16 |
| Stskeeps | i didn't even see that, moved away from .dk way before that | 10:16 |
| Shihua_ | messages UI is like shit | 10:16 |
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| Scelt | Stskeeps: oh, have a break, have a netflix | 10:17 |
| pp_ | monthly update would be easy if it was only trivial updates every time :-) | 10:17 |
| Stskeeps | mobile OS's are like playing jenga | 10:17 |
| Stskeeps | pull the wrong piece and BOOM | 10:17 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:17 |
| pp_ | yep, occasionally you need non-trivial ones | 10:18 |
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| pp_ | (tho with enough resources you could release a trivial one until you have fixed the boom :P ) | 10:18 |
| pp_ | but dunno who would be happy with that | 10:19 |
| pp_ | marketing department and people who listen to marketing department | 10:19 |
| Shihua_ | when i get many message my jolla will reboot | 10:19 |
| Shihua_ | it is not like a phone | 10:19 |
| ggabriel | Shihua_: you may want to contact care | 10:20 |
| tbr | hmmmmm, why is my jolla now stuck in a green blinking lipstick restart loop? | 10:21 |
| tbr | didn't do anything :/ | 10:21 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: u9? | 10:21 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: yes | 10:21 |
| tbr | and crash collector is installed | 10:21 |
| Stskeeps | one of the reasons we're not there yet, perhaps | 10:22 |
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| tbr | now I can trun on/off the white light by tapping or the power button | 10:22 |
| Shihua_ | It's time to be dinner ,bye | 10:22 |
| inz | that sounds quite terminal | 10:23 |
| meklu | dinner at this hour? | 10:23 |
| meklu | that's weird | 10:23 |
| Shihua_ | HK | 10:23 |
| meklu | ah, but of course | 10:23 |
| tbr | ok, so I can SSH in, that's good | 10:23 |
| meklu | I misread that as being said by Stskeeps, Shihua_ | 10:23 |
| meklu | you have the same nick colour in my client >.> | 10:23 |
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| Shihua_ | sorry,today i receive many message .jolla reboot ,when i am working | 10:25 |
| lainwir3d | that's weird | 10:26 |
| Shihua_ | So i am angry .sorry | 10:26 |
| meklu | it is okay | 10:27 |
| SK_work | battery contacts ? | 10:27 |
| Stskeeps | contact care. | 10:27 |
| Shihua_ | En | 10:28 |
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| tbr | so, is there any value in me trying to debug this state? Stskeeps? | 10:31 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: journal | 10:31 |
| Stskeeps | at least | 10:31 |
| tbr | or do I just hit it with a hammer until it recovers (screw with random packages etc) | 10:31 |
| Stskeeps | journalctl -f prolly helps to see what goes wrong | 10:31 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: I have a journal and probably many crashdumps | 10:31 |
| tbr | looks like signond can't start, aliendalvikgps can't lipstick freaks, kernel oopses | 10:32 |
| tbr | maliit server fails | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | dump journalctl -n 5000 and mail me with it? | 10:34 |
| tbr | uploading as we speak | 10:35 |
| * Stskeeps uploads gcc49 for fun and profit | 10:36 | |
| tbr | I suspect it has a trivial reason | 10:36 |
| tbr | need to go through some things like see if / is ro | 10:36 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: so, finally 4.9 instead of 4.8 | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | SK_work: well, we have 4.6 amt | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | tm | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | i just want to see what the leap is | 10:39 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: in devel I mean | 10:39 |
| SK_work | mer:devel | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | nod | 10:39 |
| SK_work | or just for fun ? | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | a bit of both. | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | it has silvermont support so that's tempting | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | and a lot better aarch64 | 10:40 |
| pp_ | and asan! | 10:40 |
| SK_work | haha | 10:40 |
| Stskeeps | asan was in gcc.48 | 10:40 |
| pp_ | it keeps getting better tho | 10:40 |
| pp_ | (and even better in clang, but that gets messy:( ) | 10:40 |
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| Stskeeps | SK_work: https://build.merproject.org/project/show/mer-core:i486:devel:gcc49 if you want to follow | 10:41 |
| pp_ | AddressSanitizer, a fast memory error detector, is now available on ARM. | 10:41 |
| pp_ | UndefinedBehaviorSanitizer (ubsan), a fast undefined behavior detector, has been added and can be enabled via -fsanitize=undefined. Various computations will be instrumented to detect undefined behavior at runtime. UndefinedBehaviorSanitizer is currently available for the C and C++ languages. | 10:41 |
| pp_ | etc. | 10:41 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: I'm more interested about how other packages builds :) | 10:41 |
| Stskeeps | SK_work: it'll come | 10:42 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:42 |
| meklu | 4.9 is nice | 10:42 |
| meklu | it's got purdy colours! | 10:42 |
| lukedirtwalker | yay for all the c++11/14 stuff :) | 10:43 |
| Tofe | Oh, I just learned that 4G LTE isn't meant to work well SMS... wow... That's quite a big flaw in the user experience... | 10:45 |
| Tofe | ok, then bye bye 4G. | 10:46 |
| Stskeeps | huh? | 10:46 |
| SK_work | Tofe: works here | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | 4G networks are generally buggy. | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:47 |
| SK_work | sending an SMS with 4G enabled and it sends the SMS without switching to 3G | 10:47 |
| Tofe | I'm just reading the answer given here: https://together.jolla.com/question/58085/delay-in-incoming-sms-message-occasional-issue/ | 10:47 |
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| Tofe | SK_work: I have sometimes big delays when receiving SMS (can be hours), never found out why | 10:47 |
| SK_work | Tofe: hum | 10:48 |
| SK_work | weired | 10:48 |
| SK_work | I experienced sometimes that going through a tunnel might prevent the Jolla to switch from 4G to something else | 10:48 |
| SK_work | so it stays in this state | 10:48 |
| SK_work | while being disconnected from network | 10:48 |
| Tofe | Stskeeps: do you think my abandon of 4G just because of my SMS delays is a bit rushed ? | 10:50 |
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| Mirv | I've been happy 4G user since I replaced my SIM card from operator https://together.jolla.com/question/47765/4g-lte-bug-cannot-receive-call-diverted-to-voicemail/#post-id-58724 | 11:04 |
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| Mirv | before that, not so happy. | 11:05 |
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| PaulePanter | Regarding the tablet, is it true that PowerVR stuff will be used with the implication that there won’t be free drivers for it? | 11:34 |
| PaulePanter | https://together.jolla.com/question/63572/tablet-gpu-drivers-dual-boot-linux/ | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | no, it doesn't use powervr. | 11:35 |
| SK_work | PaulePanter: isn't it running intel ? | 11:35 |
| PaulePanter | SK_work: If it is an Intel Moorefield SoC than the graphics core is going to be from PowerVR, if I can trust the results from the WWW. | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | you can't | 11:38 |
| PaulePanter | Used keywords: intel moorefield powervr | 11:38 |
| SK_work | :D | 11:38 |
| lainwir3d | I believe Jolla stated it's Intel HD graphics | 11:38 |
| SK_work | don't dream of free drivers either | 11:38 |
| SK_work | Jolla don't have resources developing mesa etc. | 11:38 |
| lainwir3d | hehe | 11:38 |
| PaulePanter | Stskeeps: Can you pleas point me to reliable information? | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | i'm reliable information in this case as i have one next to me. | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:39 |
| lainwir3d | haha | 11:39 |
| stephg | boom | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | SK_work: well, i'm trying to motivate people a bit to do a bit of grease work to support mesa+libdrm packaging | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | should not be hard | 11:40 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: isn't this "not hard" ? | 11:40 |
| SK_work | yeah | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | it's not hard | 11:40 |
| PaulePanter | Stskeeps: Oh, so it’s designed already and the money is just need to produce it? | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | i just don't have the time | 11:40 |
| SK_work | but performance wise ? | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | SK_work: we don't know until we try do we | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:40 |
| pp_ | it's "android apps" or "open source drivers" tho, right? | 11:40 |
| SK_work | I could do this but I would like to have hw to test on | 11:40 |
| PaulePanter | Stskeeps: What SoC is used then? | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | PaulePanter: z37xx | 11:40 |
| pp_ | or is it "android apps" + "if someone does the work, open source drivers" | 11:40 |
| SK_work | I remember testing the AMD thing for the iconia tab | 11:40 |
| SK_work | wasn't nice | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | (baytrail intel hd graphics) | 11:40 |
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| Stskeeps | SK_work: i can do the testing but i don't have time to do the grease work.. | 11:41 |
| PaulePanter | Stskeeps: Thanks! Bay Trail-T. | 11:41 |
| PaulePanter | Stskeeps: One last thing. What firmware do you currently use? UEFI? | 11:41 |
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| Stskeeps | uefi | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | i'm planning a blog entry where we discuss how that will work in terms of open bootloaders/privacy/security. | 11:42 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: hum ... | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | and welcoming put | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | input | 11:42 |
| SK_work | I can try | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | SK_work: sure, would be glad | 11:42 |
| SK_work | but I'm really not good at mesaing stuff | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | may need a up to date mesa though and libdfrm | 11:42 |
| PaulePanter | Stskeeps: Who should be contacted if a coreboot port is wanted? I can try get somebody in the coreboot community to do it, but access to the schematics is crucial. | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | it's packaging stuff | 11:42 |
| PaulePanter | Stskeeps: The next problem is Intel FSP, which is not fully open unfortunately. | 11:43 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: which target to use in Mer OBS ? | 11:43 |
| Stskeeps | SK_work: just go for mer:devel | 11:43 |
| Stskeeps | mer-core:devel | 11:43 |
| Stskeeps | or against sailfish target is also ok | 11:43 |
| Stskeeps | PaulePanter: i don't think we're in a position to replace where coreboot would go | 11:43 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: will try mer-core:devel | 11:43 |
| SK_work | will be fun | 11:43 |
| PaulePanter | Stskeeps: Sorry, could you please rephrase. | 11:43 |
| SK_work | to try "new shiny" mer | 11:43 |
| Stskeeps | as in, we're not in a position where we can easily get rid of the existing uefi firmware + schematics is out of the question | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | (sorry) | 11:44 |
| PaulePanter | Stskeeps: Even under NDA? | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | even under nda | 11:44 |
| PaulePanter | Stskeeps: Reverse engineering that stuff is always wasting so much time. | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | mobile business is murky and dirty | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 11:44 |
| PaulePanter | Too bad. | 11:45 |
| Stskeeps | we try to select our battles carefully | 11:45 |
| PaulePanter | Stskeeps: How long does it take you from pressing the power button to the boot loader? | 11:45 |
| Stskeeps | pretty much instant | 11:45 |
| Stskeeps | (i understand the coreboot arguments, fwiw) | 11:46 |
| PaulePanter | “pretty much instant” can range from 500 ms to 2 seconds. ;-) | 11:47 |
| Stskeeps | nod | 11:47 |
| PaulePanter | Stskeeps: By the way, all the current Chromebooks (x86 and ARM) use coreboot based firmware. | 11:47 |
| PaulePanter | Stskeeps: Including verified boot, recovery mechanisms and so on. | 11:48 |
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| Stskeeps | i understand, just understand that we're shipping this in what, 5 months? | 11:48 |
| PaulePanter | Stskeeps: And it’s x86 Intel devices. | 11:48 |
| Stskeeps | after that, bootloader is practically not something you want to change, nor bios | 11:48 |
| Stskeeps | plus we rely on (technical) support if things go wrong | 11:49 |
| PaulePanter | Stskeeps: If you want to be a secure OS and ship UEFI there will be security bugs you (hopefully) fix. | 11:49 |
| Stskeeps | fair | 11:49 |
| PaulePanter | Anyway, good that you are aware of coreboot. Let’s hope it’ll be used on some next devices. | 11:50 |
| Stskeeps | let's see how things turn out indeed | 11:50 |
| PaulePanter | Good luck. | 11:51 |
| Stskeeps | thanks, i'll read some more about it | 11:51 |
| PaulePanter | Also consider possible savings if you do not have to pay the ODM a license fee of 1 to 5 dollars per device. ;-) Maybe you can hire a coreboot engineer for that money. ;-) | 11:53 |
| the_mgt | hello. stupid n00b question: is that intel chip on the jolla tablet x86/amd64? or some kind of arm or something else? | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | the_mgt: atom | 11:54 |
| the_mgt | Stskeeps: thats part of the question? ;) are all atoms x86 based? | 11:55 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 11:55 |
| the_mgt | nice, thanks | 11:55 |
| the_mgt | so it could run windows7, if there were enough driver? | 11:55 |
| Stskeeps | no promises | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | it's a very embedded-ish x86 | 11:56 |
| the_mgt | (not that i would want to do such a foolish thing) | 11:56 |
| the_mgt | ok, thanks | 11:56 |
| meklu | well, it could most likely run the cpu instructions in the windows binaries | 11:57 |
| meklu | I can't see how they could screw that one up | 11:57 |
| Stskeeps | SK_work: i915 is the driver likely in use (it's a i945 i think it shows as) | 11:57 |
| Stskeeps | meklu: oh many ways.. | 11:57 |
| meklu | Stskeeps: "hey, let's not include MMX on this chip" | 11:57 |
| meklu | "why?" "because." | 11:57 |
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| pp_ | was it intel xeon phi that was rumored to have the f00f bug :-) | 12:01 |
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| sharpneli | I kinda doubt that it would have i | 12:16 |
| sharpneli | *it | 12:16 |
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| Tegu | humm, still haven't rebooted after the copypase issue, and gave journalctl -lf a try. it says "Trying to set older selection" when trying to copy. | 12:24 |
| Tegu | in qtwayland datadevicemanager setselectionsource or something. googling gives a sourcefile where it outputs that line and just returns. | 12:26 |
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| japa-fi | Anyone received their recently purchased jollaphone ? I purchased mine on last monday, still waiting :( | 13:19 |
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| meklu | mine only took a few days to arrive | 13:23 |
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| meklu | they may have a few more to process since they put the -100€ sale on | 13:24 |
| meklu | and it's christmas soon, which may make the logistics chain a bit busier too | 13:24 |
| meklu | *shrug* | 13:24 |
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| Warnaud | got mine 3 weeks ago in 3 days \o/ | 13:25 |
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| japa-fi | Well... I'll wait till wednesday, then I start asking from Jolla. | 13:30 |
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| jonwil | Seems like Intel is a lot less friendly to Coreboot than AMD is | 13:44 |
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| dunp | so suport amd :) | 13:46 |
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| jonwil | If I had the money to replace my current Core 2 Duo I would love to buy something supported by Coreboot. But since I dont, coreboot is out of the question. Seems like there isn't a single Intel desktop CPU supported by Coreboot since the Pentium 3 or so and the few laptop-class chips supported come from mostly Chromebooks, a few Lenovo systems and a couple systems that get support basically... | 13:50 |
| jonwil | ...for free since they have identical hardware to the Chromebooks and Lenovo machines. | 13:50 |
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| jonwil | heck, even looking at the AMD support I see support for older AMD parts but not for the latest AMD stuff | 13:53 |
| jonwil | In fact I would be willing to bet that there isn't a single mainstream desktop CPU/motherboard combo you can buy right now that has coreboot support. | 13:53 |
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| gogeta | cybette, iekku but swags for giveawayver ? | 14:41 |
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| stephg | Tegu: you may have more luck in #sailfishos with your boog | 16:31 |
| stephg | (if you've not already tried there) | 16:31 |
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| RavenholmDX | Anyone else order a Jolla during the sale? | 17:22 |
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| Ezko | RavenholmDX: i did a month ago or so | 17:26 |
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| RavenholmDX | how long did it take to arrive? | 17:27 |
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| Ezko | ordered on saturday arrived on wednesday | 17:29 |
| RavenholmDX | I ordered almost a week ago | 17:29 |
| RavenholmDX | still in 'picking' | 17:29 |
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| * cb400f remembers the horror of waiting for the Jolla | 17:45 | |
| cb400f | but that was in January.. no fault of Jollas... just shouldn't have been too slow for the first pre-order | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | and next up, waiting for tablet | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | i was worried like hell mine wouldn't make it for christmas | 17:46 |
| flux | soo, barring any last-minute boosts, is 160k€ enough for plastic molded TOHKBDs?-) | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | was my xmas gift for my wife | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | probably the only self made thing i'd ever give.. P | 17:46 |
| cb400f | ;-) | 17:46 |
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| * cb400f checks if it's getting close to May 2015 yet | 17:47 | |
| cb400f | hm, still not | 17:47 |
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| Stskeeps | out of morbid curiousity, if it meant getting tablet early with very early software, how many would take that offer, in exchange for bug reports and debugging enabled? | 17:48 |
| Yaniel | if I just had the money and time to play with it | 17:48 |
| Yaniel | absolutely | 17:49 |
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| SK_work | Stskeeps: \op | 17:49 |
| SK_work | \o | 17:49 |
| SK_work | written "developer device, not for sale" on the back | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | and "Jolla N950" on the front? | 17:52 |
| Stskeeps | er, no | 17:52 |
| Stskeeps | Jolla J950 | 17:52 |
| ender| | i wouldn't mind, but i wouldn't buy one either - i simply don't see any point in tablets :) | 17:53 |
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| ender| | (most of the software i use day-to-day is alpha/beta/daily build) | 17:54 |
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| ln- | i would take the offer, too, assuming it's eventually upgradeable to the final software version. | 17:56 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: with a keyboard too please | 17:57 |
| SK_work | :$ | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | lazy SK_work, just connect one with usb otg.. | 17:57 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: so usb OTG is ... unofficially confirmed ? | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | no, because i don't have a cable at home | 17:58 |
| SK_work | :D | 17:58 |
| SK_work | would love to see how SFOS 2.0 tablet edition would look like | 17:58 |
| SK_work | I like the tablet form-factor | 17:59 |
| SK_work | but no OS on it | 17:59 |
| SK_work | well, at the end I prefer iOS to Android on tablets | 17:59 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.gadgetero.net/2014/11/gadgetero-at-slush-2014.html?spref=tw from earlier | 17:59 |
| SK_work | but none of them are exploiting the full potential (IMO) | 17:59 |
| SK_work | as a tablet can be a small computer | 17:59 |
| SK_work | and actually windows is better for a tablet | 17:59 |
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| ender| | i've got a borrowed-from-work windows tablet at home. it's so-so | 18:00 |
| SK_work | ender|: in theory it's nice I would say | 18:01 |
| SK_work | my experience with w8 was disastrous | 18:01 |
| Stskeeps | microsoft could have owned the market if they didn't screw up. | 18:01 |
| SK_work | but the multiwindow thing is nice for example | 18:01 |
| Stskeeps | and have been more brave | 18:01 |
| SK_work | their animation aren't bad | 18:01 |
| SK_work | I also found out that their tiles are quite OK | 18:01 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: yep, too much concervatism | 18:02 |
| ender| | windows 8 isn't bad as a tablet OS | 18:03 |
| SK_work | but a nice mouve should have been not to release a windows aimed for tablet as desktop OS | 18:03 |
| * ender| helped deploy 172 windows tablets during the summer | 18:03 | |
| SK_work | :D | 18:03 |
| Stskeeps | SK_work: yess | 18:03 |
| SK_work | I also wonder how BB10 would behave on a tablet | 18:03 |
| Stskeeps | just let the pc die | 18:03 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:03 |
| ln- | oh, the tablet has now exceeded $380k + $1M | 18:03 |
| SK_work | looks pretty sleak | 18:03 |
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| SK_work | but BB10 don't seems to commit much on their OS other than in the smartphone front these days | 18:04 |
| ender| | main problem with 8 is that they tried shove the tablet UI on the desktop. start screen on 30" LCD sucks | 18:04 |
| SK_work | and they don't commit much on the smartphone front either (bb classic, when do you come ?) | 18:04 |
| SK_work | ender|: yeah | 18:04 |
| SK_work | and IMO, even 8.1 don't fix this | 18:04 |
| ender| | luckily there are very good start menu implementations for it | 18:04 |
| * SK_work don't like 3rd party stuff on windows | 18:05 | |
| SK_work | at the end I run KDE plasma to fit my needs | 18:05 |
| SK_work | and windows 7 for gaming | 18:05 |
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| ender| | i use 8.1 as my desktop - too tied with work to use non-windows, and with 7 i couldn't use desktop composition (i use a high-contrast theme) | 18:07 |
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| * javispedro reads the together thread about exfat and shudders | 18:13 | |
| javispedro | ... afraid what's going to happen once these gentlemen realize the UI is not that open ... | 18:14 |
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| SK_work | javispedro: play with it ? write an open-source replacement ? | 18:17 |
| javispedro | or ask for a refund? :P | 18:18 |
| SK_work | hum | 18:19 |
| SK_work | yeah | 18:19 |
| SK_work | nice people would probably do what I said | 18:19 |
| SK_work | but open-source people seems to be quite angry these days :( | 18:19 |
| SK_work | with systemd stuff, debian forking etc. | 18:20 |
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| Acce | I understood that people are angry because systemd is hiding things in binaries and is not an uncontrollable pile of shell scripts ;) | 18:31 |
| ender| | main problem with systemd is attitude of it's developers | 18:31 |
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| ender| | you've got corrupted logs? no problem, just delete them. | 18:32 |
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| Acce | mhmm, well that's not very nice attitude indeed | 18:32 |
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| javispedro | incredible. I accidentally started yet another systemd flamewar! | 18:32 |
| Acce | javispedro: it's not a flamewar :) | 18:33 |
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| ender| | sysvinit was sorely in need of replacement, and the init part of systemd is not bad | 18:33 |
| Acce | Well, no software is perfect, but let's hope that the systemd guys will do something about the bad parts | 18:34 |
| Acce | since it's open project, those complaining could probably start being active changing it to what they want instead of whining.. but the code is probably too "dirty" or something for the purists | 18:34 |
| Acce | I haven't really followed the discussion so feel free to ignore any rubbish I might be spouting :) | 18:35 |
| ender| | no, the problem is that the maintainers outright stated that they won't accept certain patches | 18:35 |
| Acce | uhh | 18:35 |
| Acce | what kind of collaboration is that.. | 18:35 |
| Acce | so people are still the hardest part of software development? | 18:36 |
| ender| | as usual | 18:37 |
| walokra | big surprise! | 18:37 |
| Yaniel | speaking of systemd, do I really have to write my own unit file just to start service with certain arguments to the daemon? | 18:37 |
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| Yaniel | or is there some magic flag for systemctl enable that does that | 18:37 |
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| walokra | what's wrong with "maintainer won | 18:38 |
| walokra | 't accept certain patches"? someone has to guide the project or something | 18:38 |
| Acce | well, they can't be doing that badly since other maintainers (like debian guys) are choosing to use systemd | 18:39 |
| ender| | problem is that many packages are becoming dependent on parts of systemd (parts that can't work standalone) | 18:39 |
| ender| | another problem is that systemd only works on linux, and one type of patches that the maintainers don't accept are those that'd make it work on other *nix systems | 18:42 |
| walokra | haven't followed why systemd is such an issue | 18:43 |
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| walokra | like they're going to fork debian for not to use it | 18:43 |
| Acce | well, I can see that not having the same software on their every *nix flavor can be annoying for some | 18:43 |
| Acce | like people having to admin many different flavors | 18:44 |
| ender| | it's more the case of "i wan't to keep using BSD, but now gnome doesn't work on it anymore" | 18:46 |
| Acce | oh.. so gnome depends on systemd now? | 18:46 |
| ender| | AFAIK (i never liked gnome) | 18:47 |
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| Acce | and are the guys like "nothing but linux EVER", so it's not like "let's make the stuff work first, then consider making it work elsewhere"? | 18:47 |
| Acce | I never used gnome either | 18:47 |
| Acce | but seems to be popular | 18:48 |
| sharpneli | Why does gnome depend on systemd? | 18:48 |
| r0kk3rz | sharpneli: because thats what systemd does | 18:49 |
| sharpneli | I heard someone complaining that gimp depends on systemd but it was only due to crappy packaging. Gimp depends on dbus and some turd made it depend explicitly on systemd dbus | 18:49 |
| ender| | gimp depending on systemd would be a bit of a problem :) | 18:50 |
| ender| | (since it works on windows, too) | 18:50 |
| Acce | and before systemd, gnome didn't depended only on sysvinit parts that worked independently? or nobody cared because there was only sysvinit? | 18:50 |
| sharpneli | Nobody cared | 18:50 |
| sharpneli | It used to use ConsoleKit for session management, not it uses systemd | 18:51 |
| Acce | well, despite all the flame and war, I think the discussion is doing good for both sides | 18:51 |
| sharpneli | Ah. Wikipedia tells that Gnome does not depend on systemd | 18:52 |
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| sharpneli | At compile time you can still select ConsoleKit | 18:52 |
| sharpneli | However every distribution ever decides to provide gnome built against systemd logind | 18:52 |
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| Acce | well, if they're going to use systemd anyways.. | 18:52 |
| sharpneli | Yeah. And additionally ConsoleKit doesn't really seem to be under active development anymore | 18:53 |
| sharpneli | I kinda understand it. I wouldn't want to develop a project myself who's only good thing would be "Not systemd!" :D | 18:53 |
| Acce | :P | 18:53 |
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| r0kk3rz | afaik gnome depends on logind | 18:58 |
| r0kk3rz | which depends on systemd | 18:58 |
| sharpneli | Yeah. I wrote that already. | 18:59 |
| sharpneli | It's selectable on compile time if logind or ConsoleKit is used | 18:59 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah if you want to compile everything | 19:00 |
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| walokra | heh, regarding systemd, https://twitter.com/CommitStrip/status/539500041908797440 | 19:25 |
| javispedro | ahaha :) | 19:27 |
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| Obi-Lan | hi, is it possible to combine any other promo code to current jolla shop offer? (249eur) | 19:31 |
| sharpneli | I really don't understand the massive hate systemd is getting | 19:31 |
| sharpneli | On my experience (which is NOT maintaining big server farms) it has been totally awesome | 19:32 |
| javispedro | agenda | 19:33 |
| javispedro | (on both sides) | 19:33 |
| sharpneli | r0kk3rz: So basically what people are demanding is that they want someone to maintain a distribution without systemd for them? | 19:34 |
| r0kk3rz | sharpneli: that does seem to be it | 19:35 |
| r0kk3rz | eventually someone will do it | 19:35 |
| javispedro | maintenance is overrated | 19:36 |
| sharpneli | Sure. But I kinda find it stupid to go trough all that rage. | 19:36 |
| sharpneli | I'm referring to the amounts of systemd rage posts there are going around | 19:36 |
| r0kk3rz | sharpneli: there are many systemd rage posts | 19:39 |
| r0kk3rz | its a weekly occurance on slashdot | 19:39 |
| sharpneli | Yap | 19:39 |
| r0kk3rz | im all for people to have a choice, but it seems too many people want to rant and he handed a solution rather than actually doing anything about it | 19:40 |
| sharpneli | Exactly. | 19:41 |
| r0kk3rz | that and a lot of thinly veiled poettering hate | 19:41 |
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| pp_ | it is a monster | 19:45 |
| pp_ | when tamed, useful, but a monster nevertheless | 19:45 |
| javispedro | and it's only going to get worse as the rolling snowball just keeps getting bigger and bigger | 19:45 |
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| keithzg | My main issue is actually how the systemd folks conflate any and all criticism or concern with the personal attacks. I've tried to articulate the apprehension sysadmins feel to supporters at times and been shouted (virtually) down every time, no matter how polite I am or constructive I try and be. | 19:47 |
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| keithzg | It's not too surprising that it's the same folks as form the dense core of the GNOME devs, where they decide user polls aren't scientific . . . so they'll listen to "what they hear" instead :/ They've kindof formed a bubble and see it as us v. them, which is *never* a constructive way to go about things. | 19:48 |
| pp_ | I loved the "it's 100% sysv compatible, don't worry" -> adoption -> "Our non-trivial sysv init script doesn't work" -> "oh, we're already using systemd, now write a unit file and stop complaining" | 19:49 |
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| pp_ | but still, I quite like it | 19:49 |
| keithzg | Yeah, I honestly have found it quite nice the times where I've used it. I'm just *super* apprehensive about the future of it, considering how poorly they handle any disagreements (and Poettering refusing to even talk to any of the kernel devs...) | 19:50 |
| keithzg | The technical issues are actually kindof small, for the most part, and wouldn't be much of a concern if one could assume they'd either be quick to respond positively to issues, or easily accepting of outside patches. | 19:51 |
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| mornfall | walokra: already removed... | 20:13 |
| mornfall | sharpneli: it's not actually so easy to regroup ... a distribution is not a one-man show | 20:14 |
| mornfall | sharpneli: so the situation is that most distros now have minorities that don't like systemd | 20:15 |
| flux | so when are we going to get a SYSTEMD-FREE jolla distribution? | 20:15 |
| flux | :-) | 20:15 |
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| * Stskeeps grabs a shotgun | 20:15 | |
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| mornfall | sharpneli: but guess what, it's not like a third of debian, a fifth of arch and a bunch of ubuntu folks will band together and make a systemd-free distro overnight | 20:16 |
| mornfall | users have been disenfranchised by the move, that's a fact | 20:16 |
| mornfall | many of them are not in a position that they can do anything about it, short-term (other than stay with old releases) | 20:17 |
| sharpneli | Sure. But that's what happens. I'd hate the alternative where we'd be stuck with systemV simply because vocal minority want's to stick with it. | 20:19 |
| mornfall | it's a bit like collective of flat owners in an apartment building deciding to remove stairwells and only have elevators; are you a minority? don't like it? build a different house elsewhere... (oh, still not done? it's been a whole week now! what a crybaby) | 20:19 |
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| sharpneli | Yap. That's life. | 20:21 |
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| sharpneli | Whenever someone says sysV is good I just remember "/etc/init.d/gdm stop... oh wait ps aux | grep gdm" | 20:21 |
| keithzg | There are also alternative init systems that aren't SysV *or* systemd, so it's not like we were stuck with old or new. | 20:22 |
| Stskeeps | i feel somewhat more depressed that people are arguing over a init system, when nobody's pushing in mobile (oh but android is open source) and desktop or tablet is falling apart | 20:22 |
| Stskeeps | i love my console but... | 20:22 |
| Stskeeps | i also want consumer systems to run my OS'es on | 20:22 |
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| sharpneli | That | 20:22 |
| keithzg | stskeeps: speaking as a sysadmin, it does kinda affect my daily job! | 20:22 |
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| flux | sharpneli, I like to point out cat /etc/init.d/* | grep -wc sleep | 20:22 |
| keithzg | Does seem to me like systemd is great for mobile, just don't necessarily agree with it being mandatory on servers . . . | 20:22 |
| Stskeeps | systemd took your jobs? | 20:22 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:23 |
| keithzg | It definitely makes my job more difficult, to be frank. | 20:23 |
| mornfall | Stskeeps: systemd sadly keeps us busy while we have other work to do | 20:23 |
| walokra | mornfall: http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2014/12/01/systemd-world-the-park-is-open/ | 20:23 |
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| sharpneli | Is it just because it's something new that must be learned or? | 20:24 |
| flux | I've only heard the view of one system admin (though very, very big systems): no expresssed opinion on systemd, but sysvinit doesn't quite cut it. | 20:24 |
| keithzg | Something like upstart is *way* nicer from a easy-maintaining-of-servers perspective. Solves a lot of the problems with SysV, but is super-simple to operate and doesn't have complex ramifications for other parts of the systems. | 20:24 |
| mornfall | sharpneli: it is because systemd is opaque | 20:24 |
| mornfall | sharpneli: it's fine when it works, but a disaster when it doesn't | 20:24 |
| sharpneli | Same issue with SysV init scripts | 20:24 |
| mornfall | sharpneli: and the upstream stance is “it always works” and “shut the fuck up” | 20:24 |
| sharpneli | Too much arcane boilerplate | 20:24 |
| sharpneli | That's correct. SystemD developer attitude is kinda bad | 20:24 |
| Nicd- | I kinda like systemd. at least what I've seen by administrating my own arch server | 20:25 |
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| mornfall | sharpneli: interestingly, I can fix initscripts 9 times out of ten... with systemd, more like 5 when the stars are right | 20:25 |
| sharpneli | Nicd-: That's my own experience too | 20:25 |
| Stskeeps | i like systemd because there's a visible and active commuunity | 20:25 |
| Stskeeps | muu'ing not intentional | 20:25 |
| Nicd- | of course it's not good if the devs are idiots | 20:25 |
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| keithzg | I've been told to fuck off by that visible and active community, so I'm a *bit* less gung-ho about that part, heh. | 20:26 |
| mornfall | basically, sysvinit is a clunky pile of rusty scripts that creak when they work, but I can fix them when they break | 20:26 |
| Stskeeps | that happens in a lot of communities though.. :P | 20:26 |
| Stskeeps | i think i've even been kicked out of a few in my time | 20:26 |
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| mornfall | systemd is a shiny new mercedes but when it breaks (and it does), I am at the mercy of a servicing shop | 20:27 |
| Stskeeps | see, this stuff is much nicer to discuss than exfat | 20:27 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:27 |
| mornfall | (even though I'm a systems programmer and I can do C in my sleep) | 20:27 |
| keithzg | Oh certainly; and a large part of it lately is that it's a lot easier on Twitter to tell someone to fuck off than to have an involved and nuanced discussion. | 20:27 |
| sharpneli | If there is so much demand for systemV:less stuff why hasn't redhat etc stepped up to do it+ | 20:28 |
| keithzg | sharpneli: err, they did, they made systemd | 20:28 |
| keithzg | :P | 20:28 |
| sharpneli | :D | 20:28 |
| Stskeeps | keithzg: twitter is a horrible, horrible medium for communicating | 20:28 |
| sharpneli | Sorry. I emeant SystemD:less stuff :) | 20:28 |
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| mornfall | Stskeeps: it's a bit like IRC with just a single channel :-) | 20:28 |
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| Stskeeps | and a lot worse character limit | 20:29 |
| mornfall | sharpneli: redhat barely got to roll out a .0 release with systemd in it | 20:29 |
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| mornfall | sharpneli: they don't know yet how customers will actually react | 20:29 |
| sharpneli | Character limit totally ruins twitter. | 20:29 |
| sharpneli | So let's see then | 20:29 |
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| keithzg | The 140 limit is super-arbitrary too; originally so that they had enough space potentially for control characters in the final 20 chars in an SMS, IIRC. But then they never even used those remaining 20 chars, and now we're stuck with that limit for the communication medium a huge number of folks insist on using... | 20:30 |
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| keithzg | But of course I'd complain about that, I'm a grumpy old sysadmin ;) #lawns #getoffmine | 20:30 |
| r0kk3rz | keithzg: now its more part of the brand rather than any technical reason | 20:31 |
| Tegu | talking about SMS's, jolla needs an SMS character counter.. need to optimize those message lengths ;P | 20:31 |
| r0kk3rz | short quips rather than magnum opus' | 20:31 |
| mornfall | Tegu: ah, right, good point :-) | 20:31 |
| Stskeeps | character counters in sms is damned hard, i hear | 20:31 |
| keithzg | Tegu: waiiit, your carrier doesn't just autojoin these days? | 20:32 |
| sharpneli | Amusingly twitter is really popular in Japan | 20:32 |
| Tegu | keithzg: it does, but if I want to fit it to one message | 20:32 |
| sharpneli | But that's mostly because 140 kanji's are roughly 300-400 western characters :D | 20:32 |
| mornfall | keithzg: they still charge per message don't they :-) | 20:32 |
| flux | I thought message joining was a phone feature? | 20:32 |
| keithzg | I know up here in Canada Bell still mangles multipart messages sometimes, but most carriers will display it as one | 20:32 |
| warfare | Hi everyone. Does anyone have a working caldav sync to Apple iCloud? | 20:32 |
| sharpneli | So they can actually have almost reasonable discussions there | 20:32 |
| Tegu | flux: I dunno | 20:32 |
| keithzg | mornfall: waiiiit, your carrier still CHARGES for SMS? Yeesh! | 20:32 |
| warfare | My phone (on u9) just syncs _one_ calendar entry and that's it. | 20:33 |
| flux | well, usually there's some limit of SMS in your contract, isn't there? | 20:33 |
| * keithzg can send SMS to anywhere in the world for free, and is on a rather cheap carrier and plan... | 20:33 | |
| mornfall | keithzg: what did you think? :-) | 20:33 |
| mornfall | keithzg: where do you even lie? | 20:33 |
| mornfall | live* | 20:33 |
| mornfall | damn that was a bad typo :-) | 20:33 |
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| Obi-Lan | so hard to fix that you dont need it anyways | 20:34 |
| keithzg | mornfall: Canada! And we have *terrible* telecoms here who gouge us horribly, so I assumed it was better elsewhere. | 20:34 |
| mornfall | keithzg: haha :-) | 20:35 |
| jonwil | Thankfully Australia has a sane mobile industry with plenty of competition so you dont get gouged... | 20:35 |
| * keithzg pays $35 per month, can text anywhere in the world, call anywhere in Canada or the States, and has unlimited data (well, soft-cap at 5GB down, 1GB up) | 20:35 | |
| r0kk3rz | jonwil: HAHAHAHA | 20:36 |
| keithzg | jonwil: your sarcasm is palpable even through IRC ;) | 20:36 |
| r0kk3rz | was there logs from todays exfat rant meeting? | 20:37 |
| jonwil | I am with TPG Mobile and I pay $14.99 which gets me 1GB of data plus $300 of cap that I can use for voice, text and data. | 20:39 |
| Nicd- | keithzg: don't all contracts have texting to anywhere in the world at the same price of a normal SMS? | 20:39 |
| jonwil | Basically the only things I cant use my $300 against is international calls, premium rate numbers and international roaming | 20:39 |
| keithzg | Nicd-: Naw, in Canada here mostly it's free within some area or another. My plan, being anywhere in the world, is somewhat abnormal. Most are either in all of Canada or only in the province. | 20:40 |
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| Nicd- | ok, in Finland I think we can send SMS anywhere at the same price | 20:40 |
| jonwil | So the "Australian mobile plans suck" argument is BS if you sign up with the right carrier :) | 20:40 |
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| keithzg | Gotta say, even though exfat support is entirely superfluous for someone like me (who doesn't even use a card before reformatting it!) I'd like to testify for the record ;) that I think it's exactly the kind of thing that makes sense to pay for with crowdfunding, and it'll preemptively solve a lot of potential confusion in not-as-technical users of the tablet. | 20:41 |
| Nicd- | here 24.90 € is unlimited calling, SMS and data (no caps, actually unlimited) with 21M speed | 20:41 |
| RavenholmDX | I pay €40 here | 20:41 |
| RavenholmDX | for pretty much unlimited everything | 20:42 |
| Nicd- | 29.90 € would be the same with 50M 4G | 20:42 |
| RavenholmDX | that's €40 with 4G | 20:42 |
| * keithzg doesn't have 4G, although does have "4G" | 20:42 | |
| keithzg | Thanks, AT&T, for causing a nearly worldwide redefinition that includes latter-day WCDMA because your LTE rollout was slow! | 20:43 |
| mornfall | RavenholmDX: does pretty much everything include international calls? | 20:44 |
| RavenholmDX | I get 400 free international minutes | 20:44 |
| RavenholmDX | I rarely have a need to even use minutes or SMS anymore | 20:45 |
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| SKyd3R | new mobile :D | 20:45 |
| Obi-Lan | would it be possible to install jolla on x86 tablet | 20:47 |
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| RavenholmDX | Obi-Lan, I'm sure it will be | 20:48 |
| RavenholmDX | seeing as the official tablet is x86 | 20:48 |
| Obi-Lan | i "borrowed" abandoned hp elitepad 900 from work | 20:48 |
| Obi-Lan | it has win 8.1 but the old atom is too weak to run it even "ok" levels | 20:49 |
| Yaniel | the jolla tablet on indiegogo is x86 if I understood right | 20:49 |
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| RavenholmDX | Obi-Lan, x86 Windows tablets bootloaders are locked down tight as far as I'm aware | 20:50 |
| SKyd3R | is there any native "whatsapp like" jolla app? | 20:50 |
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| RavenholmDX | so even if you could get an x86 optimized ROM, it'll be tough getting it on there | 20:50 |
| Obi-Lan | yes there is uefi but it seems that I can disable it | 20:50 |
| Nicd- | SKyd3R: there is mitäkuuluu but users are getting banned for it | 20:51 |
| Obi-Lan | maybe I'll try boot some random linux distribution first | 20:51 |
| Yaniel | and it is no longer maintained | 20:51 |
| SKyd3R | and WhatsApp don't show any contact I have | 20:52 |
| SKyd3R | :( | 20:52 |
| Acce | SKyd3R: it will | 20:52 |
| Acce | for some reason it takes some time | 20:52 |
| Acce | or reboot | 20:52 |
| warfare | SKyd3R: Contact sync takes a while. | 20:52 |
| SKyd3R | oh | 20:52 |
| SKyd3R | if it's a question of time I'm ok with it :) | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | out of curiousity, did amd ever end up having atom style tablets? | 20:53 |
| Stskeeps | or is intel dominating the x86 tablets totally | 20:53 |
| warfare | Stskeeps: I think intel is dominating. I haven't seen any atom-like processor from amd. | 20:54 |
| keithzg | Seems like AMD is actually betting more on ARM, since they're coming out with their own ARM designs now. Haven't seen them push for mobile devices per se yet, though. | 20:54 |
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| keithzg | I remember seeing a fair number of cheap laptops with touchscreens being ones with AMD, since they tend to pack the kindof wizz-bang into cheap chips like that, and tablets *do* exist, but they're few and far between: http://shop.amd.com/en-us/computers/tablet | 21:00 |
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| keithzg | Seems like they got a bit of traction for Windows 8 but 8.1 has left them behind entirely as Intel pulls further beyond them in terms of power efficiency. | 21:01 |
| warfare | This whole SailfishOS has some really rough edges.. Initial setup was a PITA, caldav isn't even trying to work and doesn't throw errors, the android environment is kinda working (but not copy & paste between sailfish & android).. | 21:01 |
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| Yaniel | it is still more of a developer device than something for the mass market | 21:02 |
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| warfare | Probably ;) (yes, I knew it and I'm fine with it. But I don't want to carry two phones because I can't get my calendar to work) | 21:03 |
| SKyd3R | it will be also solved the fact that I only get numbers instead of contacts' names on WhatsApp? | 21:05 |
| keithzg | warfare: I will say that it works smoothly these days for me with Google Calendar. Perhaps something to do with iCloud specifically that you're running into. | 21:05 |
| Morpog_PC | amd had some counterparts for atom, but they ate a bit more W, but were also more powerful | 21:05 |
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| Morpog_PC | AMD E-350 or E-450 back then | 21:06 |
| Yaniel | warfare: I gt radicale to work nicely with it just a bit ago | 21:06 |
| warfare | SKyd3R: yes :) Have a look at the contacts in whatsapp and see them refreshing. | 21:06 |
| Morpog_PC | GPU was alot better on the AMD CPU | 21:06 |
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| sharpneli | tbh I wouldn't mind seeing AMD put in a GCN based GPU on their new arm chip and sell that as a tablet SOC | 21:07 |
| sharpneli | But then I remembered that they cannot make usable drivers even if their company depended on it | 21:07 |
| sharpneli | So forget that :( | 21:07 |
| warfare | keithzg: Probably. I would like to see a debugging guide from jolla ;) | 21:07 |
| SKyd3R | thanks you warfare sorry for asking all the time about the same | 21:07 |
| warfare | SKyd3R: no problem with asking :) | 21:08 |
| warfare | Yaniel: I presume it'd work with the sogo I have set up but then I'd have to migrate the wifes calendars as well. | 21:08 |
| Yaniel | warfare: journalctl is your guide | 21:08 |
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| keithzg | warfare: To build on what Yaniel said, a bit down the page on https://together.jolla.com/question/60493/new-carddavcaldav-support-got-to-it-working-with-owncloud/ someone gives some steps for getting a log of an attempted sync. | 21:10 |
| SKyd3R | do you know the distro Jolla is based on? | 21:12 |
| Yaniel | mer | 21:12 |
| keithzg | SKyd3R: Mer | 21:12 |
| Yaniel | I guess the closest thing on desktop would be opensuse | 21:12 |
| SKyd3R | so I got zypper? | 21:13 |
| keithzg | Yup, zypper is there (once you install it) | 21:13 |
| Yaniel | pkcon is the default | 21:14 |
| Obi-Lan | so just ordered jolla | 21:14 |
| Morpog_PC | congrats | 21:16 |
| SKyd3R | great, do I have a su password? | 21:16 |
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| keithzg | You set it in developer options. | 21:16 |
| Morpog_PC | no, please use devel-su | 21:16 |
| keithzg | Then you use devel-su | 21:16 |
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| Morpog_PC | you can use su if oyu give root a password | 21:16 |
| Stskeeps | Yaniel: and fedora and meego | 21:17 |
| Morpog_PC | but you shouldn't | 21:17 |
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| Obi-Lan | does sudo su - work | 21:17 |
| keithzg | No, juse use devel-su, it'll do the same thing. | 21:17 |
| warfare | $%§!"$ caldav, you steaming heap of $%!&. iCloud returns multiple .ics references when searching for a calendar and apparently buteo-sync fetches the first and ignores the rest. | 21:18 |
| Obi-Lan | use ms exchange lol | 21:18 |
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| kimmoli | i don't say that exhange works great now on my jolla, as it usually needs some kick after i say so | 21:19 |
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| Morpog_PC | geez, the exFAT discussion on TMO is ridicilous | 21:20 |
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| kimmoli | is it on all channels? | 21:21 |
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| warfare | Obi-Lan: no. ;) | 21:23 |
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| netzvieh | which discussion? :D | 21:23 |
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| Morpog_PC | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1450159#post1450159 | 21:23 |
| Morpog_PC | or on TJC | 21:23 |
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| Morpog_PC | go back 10 pages and enjoy the madness | 21:23 |
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| Morpog_PC | oh btw, http://reviewjolla.blogspot.de/2014/12/this-spare-battery-fits-into-jolla-phone.html | 21:24 |
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| kimmoli | "fits" | 21:25 |
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| warfare | just add a paperclip? | 21:25 |
| Obi-Lan | "with moderate welding" | 21:25 |
| keithzg | "hammer required, blood magic recommended" | 21:26 |
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| Morpog_PC | :D | 21:26 |
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| stephg | good evening everyone, rageful steph here | 21:30 |
| coderus | hm, its very tight in width | 21:30 |
| coderus | it may not need anything | 21:30 |
| Morpog_PC | well, it's just 1500maH | 21:30 |
| VDVsx | to0 funny not to share, re that battery :P http://imgur.com/gallery/s7JtV | 21:30 |
| stephg | fluffy | 21:31 |
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| Morpog_PC | makes me wonder if a huawei y550 batter could be perfect | 21:32 |
| Morpog_PC | http://www.notebookinfo.de/tests/smartphones/huawei-ascend-g700-weiss-dual-sim-smartphone-im-einsteigerbereich/585/610x381/huawei-ascend-g700-weiss_3.jpg | 21:32 |
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| Morpog_PC | http://www.mobilegeeks.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Huawei-Ascend-Y550-0017.jpg | 21:32 |
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| keithzg | My version of a spare battery for my Jolla: also having SailfishOS installed on my Nexus 4 ;) | 21:41 |
| Morpog_PC | :D | 21:41 |
| Morpog_PC | I should have gotten that Jolla for 149€, I had it already in cart before I tweeted about it | 21:41 |
| Morpog_PC | lil expansive spare battery, but hey, I could have also exchanged display :) | 21:41 |
| Obi-Lan | so thats why I had to pay 249? >:) | 21:42 |
| Morpog_PC | :D | 21:42 |
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| Morpog_PC | yeah, I guess I have too many Jolla sailors as follower | 21:42 |
| keithzg | Heh | 21:43 |
| keithzg | Personally I couldn't justify another one since my current is mostly just a tiny tablet anyways, heh, although my carrier's roaming agreements have gotten a lot better, and it'd be potentially useful in the States . . . still, don't need two Jollas for that rare occasion! | 21:44 |
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| Obi-Lan | they could ask chinese to copy blueprints of moto g and there you would have next model | 21:45 |
| Stskeeps | msm8226 is old hat | 21:45 |
| Morpog_PC | I would bet next phone is also intel based | 21:47 |
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| Stskeeps | i wouldn't | 21:47 |
| Morpog_PC | :D | 21:48 |
| Morpog_PC | damn | 21:48 |
| Stskeeps | next up .. MIPS | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | ? | 21:49 |
| Morpog_PC | nah, powerpc | 21:49 |
| stephg | SPARC! | 21:49 |
| stephg | I WANT SPARC! | 21:49 |
| Morpog_PC | aaand we have a vote: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94236 | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | mips exists in mobile though | 21:49 |
| Morpog_PC | errr poll | 21:49 |
| * Stskeeps should really go to sleep before he resorts to alcoholism.. | 21:50 | |
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| keithzg | That poll is even missing the verb, yeesh. | 21:50 |
| Morpog_PC | haha, true | 21:51 |
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| Morpog_PC | ahaha, that made my day | 21:52 |
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| Morpog_PC | "And when your friend hands you 128gb sd card with the pictures of his baby/family vacation, you spit in his face, because MS sucks, reformat that **** before you hand me the 30 pieces of silver again " | 21:53 |
| keithzg | hahaha | 21:53 |
| keithzg | Stskeeps, we would not begrudge you a sudden slide into substance abuse ;) | 21:54 |
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| SKyd3R | gnight everyone | 21:55 |
| SKyd3R | :) | 21:55 |
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| keithzg | Goodnight! | 21:58 |
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| RavenholmDX | Jolla need to hurry up and ship my phone | 21:59 |
| Morpog_PC | nah, they need to hurry up with update10 :D | 21:59 |
| Morpog_PC | screw your phone shipping :D | 21:59 |
| stephg | Morpog_PC: have you been drinking ;) | 21:59 |
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| Morpog_PC | haha, not today, but I'm quite funny atm | 22:00 |
| stephg | FSVO funny :P | 22:00 |
| RavenholmDX | I'm thinking of going back to Linux | 22:01 |
| RavenholmDX | but PC games :( | 22:01 |
| Morpog_PC | dual boot | 22:01 |
| RavenholmDX | I've never been a fan of dual booting | 22:01 |
| TemeV | http://store.steampowered.com/browse/linux/ | 22:01 |
| RavenholmDX | I always forget to choose the OS I want when booting up | 22:02 |
| RavenholmDX | and end up pissing myself off | 22:02 |
| Morpog_PC | set the time unlimited :) | 22:02 |
| RavenholmDX | not a bad idea | 22:02 |
| TemeV | RavenholmDX: just implement the mind reading to the boot loader | 22:02 |
| keithzg | Psshhh, just use the BIOS boot menu, spam F8 while rebooting ;) | 22:02 |
| keithzg | Or is it F11 or F12 on this computer? | 22:02 |
| stephg | or DEL | 22:03 |
| stephg | or F2 | 22:03 |
| Morpog_PC | just spam F1 to F12 | 22:03 |
| keithzg | Okay, all fingers on the F keys | 22:03 |
| TemeV | keithzg: what's wrong with grub? | 22:03 |
| keithzg | TemeV: In all honesty, nothing, that's what I generally use for multi-booting, I was just joking :) | 22:03 |
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| TemeV | ok, I tought so, but wasn't sure :) There are just these "grub is pure evil" people on internet | 22:04 |
| TemeV | I've never found out what makes it evil | 22:04 |
| TemeV | I guess it's one of these "If you don't know it, I'm not going to tell you" things :) | 22:05 |
| TemeV | But I don't like dual booting too much either. Now that I have decalerd my PC too ancient for gaming anyway I have no need for Windows | 22:07 |
| keithzg | Heh. Maybe a few too many people who had Windows wipe out their GRUB install, then tried to fix it themselves without reading up on it and ended up mucking things up so neither would boot, and then they complain that it's broken. | 22:07 |
| TemeV | Maybe | 22:07 |
| keithzg | Yeah, only on my two powerful machines do I run Windows still, and only for when friends come over and we want to play some specific game that's only on Windows. | 22:07 |
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| keithzg | That's actually few and far between nowadays; even the latest Borderlands game came out day one for Linux as well! | 22:08 |
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| Morpog_PC | hot swap hard drives is the best boot manager ever :D | 22:08 |
| keithzg | hehe | 22:08 |
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| keithzg | Ohhh man I just got to the point in the TMO thread where folks suggest NTFS as an alternative to exFAT. What is this I don't even . . . | 22:19 |
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| tbr | lol | 22:19 |
| tbr | I keep forgetting about UDF, it's actually quite usable but surprisingly unpopular | 22:20 |
| keithzg | Yeah it slips my mind nearly instantly every time it comes up again, for some reason. | 22:20 |
| keithzg | I do remember last time I checked OSX's UDF support was surprisingly lacklustre, and in this era of brogrammers maybe that's why ;) | 22:21 |
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| keithzg | but for SDXC it really *had* to be exFAT since that's what the standard mandates, alas. | 22:21 |
| tbr | yeah, the standard thing is the kicker | 22:22 |
| tbr | which basically means you need to have a "this will break things" config file and there is a thing to enable other filesystems "against the standard" | 22:23 |
| Morpog_PC | gnight all | 22:24 |
| keithzg | g'night! | 22:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://german.alibaba.com/Popular/CN_icp515161-Trade.html | 23:59 |
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