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| Bysmyyr | coderus: I got blocked from whatsapp, Have you hear similar before? | 07:02 |
|---|---|---|
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| skvark | I got blocked too | 07:10 |
| Nicd- | Bysmyyr: what do you mean? did you get email from whatsapp or something? | 07:10 |
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| Bysmyyr | it just says code request failed, reason: blocked | 07:13 |
| Bysmyyr | It worked yesterday | 07:13 |
| Bysmyyr | I sent a message to support@whatsapp.com | 07:13 |
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| skvark | I have the same problem, worked yesterday just fine | 07:14 |
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| Hartzi | me too | 07:49 |
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| meklu | I haven't had that happen | 07:53 |
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| Nicd- | oh well | 07:58 |
| Nicd- | time to start looking for alternatives then I guess | 07:58 |
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| coderus | sorry gyus, i;m very busy with other project, can't look whats happening in mitakuuluu and have no any eta for you. | 08:03 |
| Nicd- | coderus: apparently whatsapp has started banning 3rd party users. at least many mitakuuluu users have been banned | 08:05 |
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| Teme | where can i volunteer to copywrite the TOHKBD stuff ._. | 08:07 |
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| coderus | Nicd-: it's just because of mitakuuluu bugs | 08:19 |
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| meklu | i.e. not doing everything the same way WA does? | 08:20 |
| coderus | Nicd-: i did not upgraded t new protocol features, but indicationg to servers about using new version | 08:20 |
| Nicd- | ok | 08:21 |
| entil | oh whoah | 08:21 |
| entil | I actually sent an email to whatsapp about that | 08:21 |
| coderus | they unban you with no problems | 08:21 |
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| coderus | ok i compiled current mitakuuluu | 08:26 |
| coderus | most features was not tested properly | 08:26 |
| coderus | but registration should work and protocol updated | 08:26 |
| entil | I just checked warehouse and there was no new version, so is this something you will release now? | 08:27 |
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| coderus | yes | 08:29 |
| coderus | updated | 08:29 |
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| tmynttin | it's there now. thanks coderus :) | 08:30 |
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| entil | afraid not quite.. can't send | 08:34 |
| entil | do I have to re-register? | 08:34 |
| coderus | entil: ? | 08:34 |
| entil | coderus: the send bubble is gray | 08:34 |
| entil | even tho I choose "restart engine" from the menu | 08:34 |
| coderus | that means you not connected | 08:34 |
| coderus | start harbour-mitakuuluu2-server from terminal and look | 08:35 |
| coderus | probably it crashing somehwo | 08:35 |
| coderus | somehow* | 08:35 |
| entil | coderus: undefined symbol: _>N9QMetaType30hasRegisteredConverterFunctionEii | 08:37 |
| entil | love the "Eii" at the end, finnish for "nooo" | 08:37 |
| meklu | symbol mangling is just great | 08:37 |
| entil | lemme guess, compiled against the preview of the next update which ships a new yet incompatible version of qt? | 08:39 |
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| tmynttin | login failed here too... | 08:42 |
| coderus | entil: entil ok, this update for uitukka only | 08:42 |
| coderus | i have fresh sdk here | 08:42 |
| entil | when's uitukka coming out? kinda sucks for us non-uitukka whatsapp users | 08:42 |
| coderus | opt-in | 08:43 |
| tbr | entil: regular will be U10 'soon™' | 08:44 |
| entil | I'm weighing the options.. if uitukka is coming out friday or monday I won't give a shit about opting in ;P | 08:44 |
| entil | but if it's '"``soon``"' I may have to | 08:44 |
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| coderus | but wtf, such change in qt51 > qt52 meta engine?! | 08:45 |
| tbr | entil: internal RC1 was done yesterday or day before, draw your own conclusions what that could mean. | 08:46 |
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| tmynttin | well, i'm using uitukka, and the new version of mitakuuluu isn't working on my device either | 08:51 |
| tmynttin | someone on openrepos says all mitakuuluu users have been banned due to using non-official client... | 08:52 |
| Bysmyyr | not all | 08:53 |
| tmynttin | hope that's not the case here :P | 08:53 |
| entil | for me it's quite clearly a crash because of fscked up symbols | 08:53 |
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| meklu | C++: not even once ;) | 09:00 |
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| meklu | intriguing that it would generate a dependency on those symbols | 09:01 |
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| coderus | tmynttin: i'm not a vanga, i need info, logs | 09:04 |
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| meklu | I'm on 1.1.0.39 and it seems to work | 09:05 |
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| pp_ | hmn, seems to work for me, even after updating | 09:07 |
| entil | 1.0.8.21 here | 09:07 |
| entil | pp_: which version you running? | 09:07 |
| entil | wouldn't be surprised if this channel here had a strong selection bias for people opting in etc | 09:08 |
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| tmynttin | coderus: sent you one. i hope it's sufficient | 09:09 |
| coderus | tmynttin: register again | 09:09 |
| pp_ | 1.1.0.39 os and mitakuuluu was something and I updated it to latest a few mins ago, still logs in fine :-) | 09:10 |
| coderus | wi;; recompile mitakuuluu to be able to install on uitukka only | 09:10 |
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| * meklu updated MK from 0.8.13 to 0.8.15 | 09:12 | |
| tmynttin | coderus: tried. it says "requesting code failed, reason: blocked" | 09:12 |
| coderus | tmynttin: so it means you banned :) | 09:13 |
| coderus | email to whatsapp and ask to unblock | 09:13 |
| tmynttin | cool :P | 09:13 |
| coderus | never say you used mitakuuluu to them ;) | 09:13 |
| coderus | recompiled and uploaded 0.8.15-2 | 09:14 |
| coderus | can be installed on uitukka only | 09:14 |
| entil | I actually told them I used mitakuuluu | 09:14 |
| coderus | entil: try to install this, i'm interesing what it will say during installation | 09:14 |
| coderus | entil: lol, you will be banned forever then :D | 09:15 |
| coderus | the better way ask to unblock is installing android app and trying registration from here | 09:15 |
| coderus | and after this send email to whatsapp | 09:15 |
| entil | coderus: so what about all the regular people whose mitakuuluus break and they don't know what uitukka is and don't really even care? | 09:15 |
| coderus | they will check last registration, and notice android and unblock you :) | 09:16 |
| coderus | entil: thats advantages of opensource and donationware programming | 09:16 |
| coderus | nobody care really :) | 09:16 |
| entil | you mean disadvantage ;P | 09:16 |
| coderus | every mitakuuluu user costs $0 | 09:16 |
| coderus | so i have no reason to care anyway :) | 09:17 |
| entil | but it's a disadvantage | 09:17 |
| entil | because it fucks regular non-geek people over | 09:17 |
| coderus | entil: this is sad life rules :) | 09:17 |
| ggabriel | non-geek people? what's that? :) | 09:17 |
| entil | or it fucks over jolla incorporated because only a minority of geeks will buy the phone | 09:17 |
| entil | and then they go bankrupt | 09:17 |
| meklu | I can't see the average user going ahead and installing anything from openrepos in the first place | 09:20 |
| meklu | my guess would be that they'd just try to install WA from e.g. aptoide | 09:20 |
| SK_work | coderus: wondering, why didn't you compiled new mitakuuluu with old SDK ? | 09:21 |
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| entil | meklu: hope you're right, but the average user will want whatsapp, and not having it in jolla store is also a downside | 09:23 |
| entil | SK_work: it probably wouldn't work on uitukka then ;P | 09:23 |
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| SK_work | entil: it will | 09:24 |
| entil | oh | 09:24 |
| SK_work | you have ascending binary compatibility | 09:24 |
| SK_work | not descending though | 09:24 |
| SK_work | (obviously) | 09:24 |
| coderus | SK_work: because i have only one sdk :) | 09:26 |
| SK_work | coderus: use OBS | 09:26 |
| coderus | SK_work: no, thanks | 09:27 |
| coderus | obs doesnt like me :) | 09:27 |
| SK_work | coderus: meh | 09:28 |
| coderus | oh, i think i have old sdk on my server :) | 09:29 |
| coderus | i'll check it now | 09:29 |
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| nander | My phone is still in picking :( | 09:31 |
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| TMavica | coderus: you make mitakuuluu whole chats page dim? | 09:33 |
| coderus | nope, i already updated server sdk...but... | 09:35 |
| coderus | TMavica: read backlog please | 09:35 |
| coderus | you not the only one user in irc | 09:35 |
| TMavica | whole chat page avatar in yellow | 09:35 |
| TMavica | reading | 09:35 |
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| clau | regarding whatsapp, aren't they still sending take down notices to opensource projects implementing their protocol? | 09:37 |
| coderus | clau: no | 09:38 |
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| clau | that's good to hear | 09:38 |
| clau | I was afraid Mitakuuluu will be targeted | 09:38 |
| coderus | no | 09:38 |
| coderus | https://github.com/CODeRUS/mitakuuluu2/issues/277 | 09:40 |
| tigeli | coderus: it was a trademark-issue.. mitäkuuluu != whatsapp | 09:41 |
| tigeli | argh | 09:41 |
| tigeli | clau: ^ | 09:41 |
| clau | really? | 09:45 |
| clau | I thought they just didn't want anyone to use their network without their approval | 09:46 |
| coderus | entil: install 0.8.15-3 | 09:46 |
| coderus | entil: compiled with old sdk, should work | 09:46 |
| coderus | clau: APIs can't be licensed :) | 09:46 |
| meklu | well, Oracle was somehow wrangling their Google case their way at some point... | 09:47 |
| clau | so if you don't use the trademarked "WhatsApp", they can't do anything, even if they want to. | 09:47 |
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| clau | coderus: was just wondering, have you ever considered adding support for other protocols? for instance Telegram. | 09:49 |
| clau | in fact, even if you would add XMPP, I would prefer to use Mitakuuluu instead of the default client. | 09:49 |
| coderus | clau: mitakuuluu is whatsapp client :) | 09:50 |
| coderus | its not a toaster | 09:50 |
| clau | you make me sad :( | 09:50 |
| coderus | and its not a fridge :) | 09:50 |
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| entil | coderus: spasibo, I'll try that :) | 09:50 |
| clau | uuu, mitakuuluu update. | 09:51 |
| coderus | clau: you can skip that | 09:51 |
| coderus | just recompiled with old sdk | 09:51 |
| clau | oh, ok | 09:51 |
| coderus | and mitakuuluu now is very FAT | 09:51 |
| coderus | i dont know why :D | 09:51 |
| entil | coderus: not visible in warehouse yet | 09:51 |
| coderus | entil: warehouse is not refreshing your repos automatically ;) | 09:52 |
| entil | coderus: I am clicking "Check for updates" | 09:52 |
| entil | and now I got it | 09:52 |
| entil | error occurred | 09:53 |
| entil | dep-resolution-failed | 09:53 |
| entil | nothing provides libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.0) | 09:53 |
| meklu | ha, woht | 09:54 |
| Sail0r | nice one http://thehackernews.com/2014/10/sony-xperia-devices-secretly-sending.html | 09:56 |
| coderus | entil: ha :D | 09:59 |
| coderus | nice crap then | 09:59 |
| coderus | ok, i'll remove mitakuuluu for now | 09:59 |
| coderus | Just removed Mitakuuluu from Openrepos for a while. Will reupload when i'll have time to fix it properly. | 10:01 |
| tmynttin | Sail0r: pretty interesting :) | 10:02 |
| entil | coderus: haha, ok | 10:02 |
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| coderus | entil: check this one: https://coderus.openrepos.net/mitakuuluu/harbour-mitakuuluu2-0.8.15-4.armv7hl.rpm | 10:22 |
| coderus | compiled with qtc | 10:22 |
| coderus | mer sdk mb scripts are puzzled | 10:23 |
| entil | downloading | 10:24 |
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| Stskeeps | g/ 44 | 10:26 |
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| entil | coderus: code request failed, reason: blocked | 10:27 |
| entil | coderus: but the server and ui are running, thanks | 10:27 |
| coderus | entil: good, thanks | 10:27 |
| chem|st | just sorted tjc by votes, and guess what... most voted issues are business ones - maps, calendar, SIP - if not looking on bugs... | 10:27 |
| chem|st | once I started to use Jolla I stopped listening to music on the go, even in my car I use the N9... maps+mediaplayer | 10:29 |
| * Stskeeps started using spotify a lot on the go | 10:29 | |
| entil | a friend of mine just got the jolla and his feedback was that it feels unpolished compared to android, and the one thing he mentioned is the clock doesn't show the time in foreign cities.. something I would never have thought people care about | 10:30 |
| entil | and he's one of those people who will not sign up for tjc to post :( | 10:30 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: I started to use MTVmusic because the mediaplayer is still not up to the task... but android apps seem to request internet even when set 'offline' in their settings (calling home I guess) | 10:30 |
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| chem|st | entil: sounds like a bug, just like all the other bugs with time | 10:33 |
| chem|st | but that might be a provider issue as well, when not going online the device depends on carrier-time | 10:33 |
| r0kk3rz | chem|st: try sirensong instead :P | 10:33 |
| chem|st | r0kk3rz: thanks but no thanks | 10:34 |
| r0kk3rz | and if you dont like it, tell me why | 10:34 |
| chem|st | r0kk3rz: is it yours? | 10:34 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah | 10:34 |
| chem|st | tested it a while ago... | 10:35 |
| r0kk3rz | its still a work in progess, not really up to the standard of other things like quasarmx | 10:35 |
| coderus | Uploaded Mitakuuluu v0.8.15-4 | 10:35 |
| coderus | If you banned/blocked in whatsapp: https://github.com/CODeRUS/mitakuuluu2/issues/278 | 10:35 |
| r0kk3rz | but if people tell me what they're missing the most, then i can look at adding it in | 10:35 |
| chem|st | r0kk3rz: do you know the N9 mediaplayer? | 10:35 |
| r0kk3rz | never owned an n9 | 10:36 |
| chem|st | ok | 10:36 |
| coderus | chem|st: videoplayer is ok | 10:36 |
| coderus | chem|st: but music player is crap :D | 10:36 |
| chem|st | coderus: N9 or Jolla? | 10:37 |
| chem|st | both are crap | 10:37 |
| entil | for shits and giggles I'll wait until whatsapp replies to me before I install the android client | 10:37 |
| entil | because I did mention mitakuuluu and jolla when I emailed them ;P | 10:38 |
| chem|st | and as I am unable to mount the sdcard as MTP in linux I cannot even use an MTP-player on my desktop to create playlists and stuff | 10:38 |
| coderus | chem|st: N9 | 10:38 |
| chem|st | coderus: it is so bad that I used only one function 'favourites' | 10:40 |
| chem|st | grrr warehouse search is broken-dumb... search for "siren" does not return any hits... | 10:41 |
| coderus | i'm using quasarmx on both :) | 10:41 |
| r0kk3rz | chem|st: nothing super major has changed since v0.2, so it depends on how long ago you tried it | 10:43 |
| r0kk3rz | v0.3 mainly added in the mpris dbus interface for the pebble users | 10:43 |
| chem|st | r0kk3rz: well lets start with playlist... | 10:43 |
| chem|st | I actually like the Jolla interface but there are functions missing alot | 10:44 |
| chem|st | for example, you want to have a play queue saved as playlist | 10:44 |
| chem|st | you want a playqueue survive a restart | 10:45 |
| chem|st | playlistmanagement is really bad | 10:45 |
| chem|st | that is why I used favourites on the N9 | 10:46 |
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| chem|st | I used it as my persistent playqueue | 10:46 |
| r0kk3rz | a lot of the backend functions for playlists are already there as part of qtmultimedia | 10:46 |
| r0kk3rz | most of the work is how the interface works | 10:47 |
| chem|st | and again after using 5 portrait programs with the device flat on a table it still thinks it is landscape... | 10:47 |
| r0kk3rz | and I am planning to implement some persistence so if remembers how you left it | 10:49 |
| chem|st | r0kk3rz: most annoying in the mediaplayer is that you put together a queue and all for a sudden the input is taken as tap, your queue is gone and your current folder is played instead | 10:49 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah that would be annoying | 10:50 |
| * meklu hates playlists | 10:50 | |
| chem|st | an edit mode where you can tap or double tap items to add them to a queue or playlist would come handy | 10:50 |
| r0kk3rz | sirensong queue is add only, unless you explicitly clear it via the menu | 10:51 |
| tadzik | I liked the OpenMediaPlayer UX from maemo | 10:51 |
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| chem|st | r0kk3rz: is the queue persistent yet? | 10:52 |
| r0kk3rz | not yet | 10:52 |
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| chem|st | do you know mocp? | 10:52 |
| r0kk3rz | im working on another library view at the moment, for showing albums and such | 10:53 |
| lainwir3d | hi | 10:53 |
| tadzik | awww yiss | 10:53 |
| r0kk3rz | mocp? | 10:53 |
| tadzik | for all I care it could show folders and subfolders :) | 10:53 |
| tadzik | I like how ncmpcpp does it | 10:53 |
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| chem|st | r0kk3rz: one idea could be to have a pulley toggle [play,queue], in mocp you can play songs from your library without adding them to the queue, if the song is in the queue you see it as it gets highlighted there too | 10:55 |
| r0kk3rz | not quite sure I get how that works, might have to investigate this mocp thing | 10:56 |
| chem|st | r0kk3rz: BUG!!! adding a song to the queue adds another one, tapping a song in the queue also adds another one?! | 10:57 |
| chem|st | do you just randomly fill the queue? | 10:57 |
| chem|st | when repeat is off that is | 10:58 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah thats not a bug | 10:58 |
| r0kk3rz | i dont like the 'shuffle all' method of playing your whole library | 10:59 |
| r0kk3rz | i grew up with wincue for winamp on my pc, which randomly adds songs when you reach the end of the queue | 10:59 |
| chem|st | ehrm setting for that please | 11:00 |
| r0kk3rz | but when i get around to implementing some kind of persistence, then you can switch it off and it will stay off | 11:00 |
| r0kk3rz | or a default settings page | 11:00 |
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| chem|st | if you compare to winamp, things like play-on-queue, add-to-queue should be implemented | 11:01 |
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| chem|st | filling the playlist with random songs is a nice feature but should be off by default | 11:02 |
| chem|st | I don't want to jump to the queue while I am actually trying to add songs to it, so for me it is add-to-queue | 11:05 |
| r0kk3rz | you can longpress songs and 'add to queue' | 11:05 |
| r0kk3rz | a tap is taken as 'play this now' | 11:05 |
| r0kk3rz | i also thought about adding a 'play next' option, to insert the song after the current song | 11:06 |
| chem|st | and that's why I want settings with a toggle to that behaviour | 11:06 |
| chem|st | misconception has it, just because apple forces people to behave within their pattern does not make it right | 11:08 |
| chem|st | or even good | 11:08 |
| chem|st | give a choice | 11:08 |
| r0kk3rz | hence this conversation, i know how I like my music player to act | 11:09 |
| chem|st | and I am telling you how I like it ;) | 11:09 |
| r0kk3rz | and at the moment sirensong is geared towards that | 11:09 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah, thats what I need :) | 11:09 |
| nander | Damm, what's app are a bunch of whinebaby's | 11:10 |
| chem|st | so I can understand that you like it that way, and on some days I may like it too, but not as default | 11:10 |
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| chem|st | nander: why call for 3 minutes when you can have 8hour whatsapp conversations... | 11:11 |
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| tadzik | why do we sit here on IRC instead of hosting a skype conference call? /s | 11:12 |
| chem|st | tadzik: unsupported | 11:12 |
| Stskeeps | tadzik: because the moment anybody enabled video, we'd all turn blind. | 11:12 |
| tadzik | heh | 11:13 |
| chem|st | there are various reasons why using IRC is a good choice... | 11:13 |
| r0kk3rz | and then we'd have to deal with everyones accents | 11:13 |
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| nander | IRC is public | 11:13 |
| tadzik | chem|st: you seem to not have noticed my sarcasm marker :) | 11:13 |
| nander | You just need the url ;) | 11:13 |
| nander | Ah ;) | 11:13 |
| r0kk3rz | chem|st: yeah i think i get how you want things, which are part of the grand design but not there yet | 11:14 |
| chem|st | my GF for example wants to have me use IM where she can send me pictures all day long, I am kinda glad that she does not know IRC, android has no jabber client that is capable and I am not dumb enough to use whatsapp | 11:14 |
| chem|st | tadzik: that was kind of a wait for it ;) | 11:15 |
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| chem|st | IRC feels like a park where you meet in a coffee break and suddenly all people with the same interest stand next to each other (coherent multi-verse) | 11:17 |
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| Jope | irc is a diary that berates you back | 11:18 |
| AL13N_work | chem|st: with a lot of them sleeping standing up | 11:18 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | chem|st, now you know why iphone is popular among female | 11:19 |
| AL13N_work | chem|st: if you don't want your gf's pics, you can send them to me, though :-) | 11:19 |
| dr_gogeta86 | can share imgs from every where | 11:19 |
| dr_gogeta86 | especially screen cap | 11:19 |
| coderus | whatsapp is crapp in media privacy | 11:20 |
| meklu | indubitably | 11:20 |
| coderus | all uploaded stuff is available for everybody :) | 11:21 |
| AL13N_work | idd | 11:21 |
| AL13N_work | that's what makes it so great if you're not using it | 11:21 |
| dr_gogeta86 | coderus just encrypt ... or DELETE | 11:21 |
| tadzik | (almost) no one is willing to give up their conveniences for something as silly as privacy | 11:21 |
| coderus | direct links to media allow to download it with just browser | 11:21 |
| meklu | an israeli company acquired by a US company | 11:21 |
| coderus | dr_gogeta86: once uploaded media can't be deleted :) | 11:21 |
| meklu | so snooping will be easy enough for interested alphabet soups :) | 11:21 |
| coderus | it automatically removed in some months or so | 11:21 |
| AL13N_work | better make a graphic algo that filters out the nude pics and store those :-) | 11:22 |
| coderus | dr_gogeta86: and you can't upload encrypted media ;) | 11:22 |
| coderus | whatsapp servers also decoding/encoding your media on the fly to some formats | 11:22 |
| AL13N_work | coderus: what if you rename it .jpg and put the JPEG header in front? | 11:22 |
| dr_gogeta86 | images ? | 11:22 |
| coderus | AL13N_work: whatsapp server will return upload error :) | 11:22 |
| dr_gogeta86 | ah ok | 11:23 |
| coderus | it's very strict to media metadata and its contents | 11:23 |
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| AL13N_work | coderus: ah, due to the image conversion | 11:23 |
| AL13N_work | coderus: so, you'd need to encrypt in a valid jpg file | 11:24 |
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| AL13N_work | cool | 11:24 |
| coderus | i'm also thinking its have some service like tinyurl or google images to comparing sent images with copyrighted ones | 11:24 |
| coderus | videos and music also | 11:24 |
| coderus | because there is something about copyright media | 11:24 |
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| locusf | steganography? | 11:24 |
| coderus | and some users was banned by whatsapp forever because sending copyright content :) | 11:24 |
| locusf | picture within picture | 11:24 |
| coderus | AL13N_work: we can rname to BMP and add simple resolution+depth header to any file :) | 11:25 |
| AL13N_work | coderus: anyway, what'sapp is great, because females use it... :-) | 11:25 |
| coderus | but i dont think bmp is really supported by whatsapp :D | 11:25 |
| coderus | whatsapp is simple, and its silly to expect extraodinary things :) | 11:26 |
| AL13N_work | well, as long as i'm able to store the nude pics, i got no problem with it | 11:26 |
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| AL13N_work | i'm not gonna use it thogh | 11:26 |
| coderus | whatsapp is really sms replacement | 11:28 |
| coderus | and you know cell services can print your sms history and mms data :D | 11:29 |
| AL13N_work | of course | 11:30 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | coderus, they also do that | 11:31 |
| dr_gogeta86 | was used in some trials in italy | 11:31 |
| chem|st | coderus: that is why a proper replacement is jabber with otr, or even ricochet | 11:31 |
| coderus | chem|st: tox :) | 11:32 |
| coderus | all p2p stuff is good btw | 11:32 |
| dr_gogeta86 | special, is sleeping right now | 11:33 |
| coderus | just do end-to-end encryption | 11:33 |
| nander | It has to be as easy as whatsapp | 11:36 |
| nander | Just install, it imports your contacts and you start chatting | 11:36 |
| nander | SMS, but better | 11:36 |
| meklu | physically share public keys, do all communications encrypted | 11:37 |
| meklu | solved | 11:37 |
| meklu | or physically exchange, rather | 11:37 |
| chem|st | nander: any software importing my contacts to do that will not be installed on my phone | 11:37 |
| meklu | so as to get the right amount of trust in that the public key actually belongs to the other | 11:37 |
| chem|st | meklu: have it signed by a cert authority... | 11:40 |
| nander | To you, maybe, but that's not something the general public will use | 11:41 |
| nander | And therefore useless as a messaging app, because you have no-one to send messages to | 11:41 |
| chem|st | other way round, who wants to send messages to me has to use what I use as I don't care | 11:42 |
| nander | That way you may lose a few friends | 11:42 |
| chem|st | that are no friends | 11:43 |
| nander | Not actively, but you lose contact | 11:43 |
| nander | Contact becomes less active | 11:43 |
| nander | And what puts you in the position to choose, rather than your contacts | 11:43 |
| nander | Especially when chatting in groups | 11:43 |
| meklu | the not caring part | 11:43 |
| chem|st | meklu: thanks! | 11:44 |
| nander | It's not a compliment | 11:44 |
| meklu | why not? :< | 11:44 |
| nander | There should be an open source messaging solution that works on all platforms, is easy and has end-to-end encryption | 11:44 |
| tadzik | like xmpp? | 11:44 |
| * tadzik hides | 11:45 | |
| nander | Easy to use | 11:45 |
| nander | For NORMAL people | 11:45 |
| tadzik | facebook uses xmpp | 11:45 |
| tadzik | there, was it that hard? | 11:45 |
| chem|st | nander: I care about their need to send me texts as much as they care about my privacy | 11:45 |
| tadzik | you just need a UI that hides all the complexity | 11:45 |
| nander | I meant a true solution | 11:45 |
| tadzik | no one does that for xmpp, because xmpp is for nerds anyway | 11:45 |
| nander | something they install and it works | 11:45 |
| nander | End-to-end encryption, open source (so it can be audited) | 11:45 |
| nander | Group chat | 11:45 |
| nander | Well-implemented UI | 11:46 |
| nander | And a great, reliable backbone of the network | 11:46 |
| tadzik | what are you waiting for? :) | 11:46 |
| chem|st | nander: you are asking for jabber... | 11:46 |
| meklu | does tox not do some of that? | 11:46 |
| nander | tox may be the solution in the end | 11:47 |
| chem|st | meklu: the idea of having everything like email for the user is what I like about jabber | 11:47 |
| tadzik | welllllll | 11:47 |
| chem|st | the address format is already known by everyone | 11:47 |
| tadzik | email has seamless-ish sync between multiple clients | 11:47 |
| chem|st | tadzik: user point of view | 11:47 |
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| tadzik | I don't see how that's not the user point of view, but we may be looking at different things | 11:48 |
| tadzik | having the same history on all devices is definitely nice to have | 11:48 |
| chem|st | xmpp needs a standard feature set that needs to be supported by all clients and servers and you are done | 11:48 |
| nander | tox could solve the problems | 11:48 |
| nander | We'd just need a jolla client | 11:48 |
| tadzik | also, clients that actually respect priorities of resources would be nice too | 11:49 |
| tadzik | we have an xmpp client, why would we want a tox client? | 11:49 |
| nander | IM does have near-realtime priority | 11:49 |
| chem|st | tadzik: priorities? have all clients in sync! | 11:49 |
| nander | on a communication-device | 11:49 |
| nander | Tadzik, you want an easy client that works with what others use | 11:49 |
| tadzik | chem|st: yeah, then the problem solves itself | 11:49 |
| tadzik | that's how matrix.org does it too | 11:49 |
| nander | You want a client for EVERY protocol | 11:49 |
| tadzik | I like what they're doing | 11:49 |
| nander | So you can use w/e the other uses | 11:49 |
| nander | Give the other side the choice | 11:50 |
| nander | And if possible without even leaving the normal messaging app | 11:50 |
| chem|st | tadzik: that priority scheme came up instead of CC | 11:50 |
| tadzik | I don't think you understand the implications of it, nander :) | 11:50 |
| tadzik | if I want to communicate with people using facebook chat, I *do* need a facebook account at some point | 11:50 |
| nander | xmpp is fully compatible with tox? | 11:50 |
| chem|st | nander: that is called unification and is done ever since maemo | 11:50 |
| tadzik | you can write an xmpp transport for any protocol, I don't see how tox is special | 11:51 |
| tadzik | chem|st++ | 11:51 |
| nander | Tox has some mechanisms to share keys I think | 11:51 |
| chem|st | I don't want a client, I want a telepathy plugin... | 11:51 |
| tadzik | exactly | 11:51 |
| tadzik | that's what I hated about android | 11:51 |
| tadzik | "no, have another app for every goddamn service" | 11:51 |
| tadzik | aargh | 11:51 |
| chem|st | not only android... | 11:51 |
| tadzik | "we need to put our logo *somewhere*" | 11:52 |
| chem|st | I use unified clients ever since | 11:52 |
| nander | tox has a pidgin plugin | 11:52 |
| nander | I want a solution that works for normal peopl | 11:52 |
| nander | people* | 11:52 |
| chem|st | centerim on console for example | 11:52 |
| chem|st | or even irssi - one to rule them all | 11:52 |
| nander | While still useful on Jolla | 11:52 |
| chem|st | nander: what is wron on email addresses? | 11:53 |
| nander | Well, the problem is, I don't think there is a fancy android app | 11:53 |
| nander | And you want some account somewhere | 11:53 |
| nander | And for your contacts that should be easy to do | 11:54 |
| tadzik | you always want some account somewhere | 11:54 |
| nander | Not 100 parties to choose from | 11:54 |
| chem|st | there are several fancy android apps | 11:54 |
| tadzik | I have telegram on my jolla, and it doesn't solve any problem at all, the fact that it uses my contact list | 11:54 |
| tadzik | because only 2 people from that contact list have telegram installed | 11:54 |
| tadzik | that makes it worse than xmpp, and not only because it has to ship its damned app | 11:54 |
| chem|st | tadzik: but now they will get invitations to telegram | 11:55 |
| tadzik | they still need to open the accounts | 11:55 |
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| tadzik | it's something you can't avoid | 11:55 |
| chem|st | hike.in did send me a SMS when a friend loaded his addressbook... | 11:55 |
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| nander | xabber looks quite decent on android | 11:56 |
| nander | Does lack integrated registration, which is a pity | 11:56 |
| nander | register.jabber.org doesn't work | 11:56 |
| nander | And hasn't worked for a year | 11:57 |
| tadzik | jabber is now deprecated in favour of xmpp | 11:57 |
| tadzik | also, you want decentralization but a centralized registration? | 11:57 |
| nander | Ah, but Xabber stil says: go to that site | 11:57 |
| chem|st | we are now at a point I actually like to break, we are not solving android here... google wants us to use hangouts... | 11:57 |
| nander | Normal users want a centralized location | 11:57 |
| nander | Powerusers want decentralized | 11:58 |
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| tadzik | easy, have xabber host its own xmpp server | 11:58 |
| tadzik | problem solved | 11:58 |
| nander | For any solution to work, it has to work on android, IOS, jolla | 11:58 |
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| chem|st | nander: that is why I said, have jolla host a xmpp server with addresses from our useraccounts | 11:59 |
| nander | You'd need android support for it to really work | 11:59 |
| nander | And iOS support | 11:59 |
| tadzik | android support is beside the point | 11:59 |
| tadzik | you're still thinking in apps | 11:59 |
| nander | Is the MAIN point | 11:59 |
| nander | It has to work for my dad | 12:00 |
| nander | Otherwise it's pointless | 12:00 |
| chem|st | even my gigaset has its gigaset ID and can do SIP calls even without ever registering an account solely for SIP... | 12:00 |
| tadzik | if you want something ubuquitous, however you spell that, you can't just decide on a list of platform you want to support | 12:00 |
| nander | You need *at least* Android, iOs, Windows phone, Jolla | 12:00 |
| nander | Jolla because we want to use it | 12:00 |
| nander | Not because it's commercially feasable | 12:00 |
| chem|st | and what is on all those platforms? xmpp | 12:01 |
| tadzik | nothing new needs to be invented | 12:01 |
| nander | I didn't find a nice client for android | 12:01 |
| nander | You need something fancy to convince people ;) | 12:01 |
| tadzik | someone needs to throw money at user experience | 12:01 |
| tadzik | and that's not good for business, see gmail | 12:02 |
| ggabriel | nander: there are plenty | 12:02 |
| nander | you need one epic one | 12:02 |
| ggabriel | android lacks centralised support | 12:02 |
| ggabriel | like ios | 12:02 |
| ggabriel | but you can use it | 12:02 |
| tadzik | they became the De Facto Email Provider, to the point when I miss my D&D sessions when I forget to check my gmail spam account | 12:02 |
| nander | Which works easily, looks good, easy registration for normal users | 12:02 |
| tadzik | nander: it's called facebook chat | 12:02 |
| tadzik | satisfied? Of course you aren't | 12:03 |
| nander | It's a solution I use for most people | 12:03 |
| tadzik | shiny clients on major platforms, any xmpp client on any other platform | 12:03 |
| nander | Whatsapp is basically my kayak-club, my dad, study group | 12:03 |
| nander | And people I don't know that well, but have my phone number | 12:03 |
| tadzik | have them enable s2s and tada, we leave in a dreamworld | 12:04 |
| tadzik | but why would they do that? | 12:04 |
| nander | It's not 'they' | 12:04 |
| ggabriel | we should all use echomail | 12:04 |
| nander | It's true, there is no commercial formula behind a great XMPP app | 12:04 |
| nander | But a community could make that | 12:04 |
| nander | But android lacks community effort for cool apps | 12:04 |
| chem|st | gmail closed our mailhosting as someone sent a mail that the registered domain is not ours... instead of asking us they simply deleted it, and we needed to ask them - google does not do good for business | 12:05 |
| tadzik | good thing communities are great for building one thing together instead of everyone scratching their own itch.... | 12:05 |
| tadzik | nander: maybe consider crowdfunding such xmpp appset for Normal People :) | 12:06 |
| ggabriel | pesky normies ;) | 12:06 |
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| chem|st | what is the jolla capabilities in terms of sdcard classes? U-what? | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | i'd presume at least class 10? | 12:24 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: that is U1 | 12:24 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: we have new classes now | 12:25 |
| Stskeeps | lovely | 12:25 |
| chem|st | instead of class i++ they did 10+i=U | 12:26 |
| tadzik | yay, gpodder fixed | 12:26 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: new cards hit U3 specs which is about 250MB/s | 12:27 |
| ggabriel | 250MB/s... sounds too much | 12:27 |
| chem|st | question is how fast can the Jolla controller go? | 12:27 |
| Stskeeps | ah.. | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | hmm. | 12:28 |
| ggabriel | Mb I can believe-ish | 12:28 |
| tadzik | too much speed? Blasphemy | 12:28 |
| ggabriel | a class 10 claims a lot of speed and on real tests it doesn't withstand more than 7-8MB/s | 12:28 |
| ggabriel | if you're lucky | 12:28 |
| tadzik | see also: wifi | 12:29 |
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| nander | By the way, is WPA-enterprise support improved since let's say january | 12:30 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: UHS-3 specifies a minimum of 30MB/s continuous write | 12:30 |
| nander | Or do I still need my own config file? | 12:30 |
| Stskeeps | chem|st: i honestly don't know | 12:30 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: I don't know what cards you have but my samsung class10 UHS1 do actually have their >10MB/s write speed | 12:31 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: lexar/delkin | 12:32 |
| ggabriel | and yeah, maybe at times 10MB/s | 12:32 |
| pp_ | one way to find out, try one for real :-) class10 I got for my camera is pretty fast (as in recording hi-res video is actually possible) | 12:32 |
| ggabriel | even >10MB/s | 12:32 |
| ggabriel | is lower than the claimed speed | 12:32 |
| ggabriel | so i find it hard to believe the 250MB/s | 12:32 |
| r0kk3rz | sounds like its time to replace the sd card in my phone | 12:33 |
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| chem|st | ggabriel: U1 specifies 10MB/s and the claimed speed is up to 48MB/s and I get ~28MB/s continuouse | 12:34 |
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| chem|st | r0kk3rz: price value, I'd always go 32gb samsung, they stopped producing them though | 12:35 |
| chem|st | guess they just relabled, the samsung evo32gb has the same specs and the same price | 12:37 |
| r0kk3rz | not even sure what mine is anymore | 12:37 |
| r0kk3rz | its a 32gb something or other | 12:37 |
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| chem|st | ggabriel: http://www.engadget.com/2014/02/12/sandisk-u3-sdxc-card/ | 12:39 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: yeah, ok, i guess i'll try them if i ever get a chance | 12:40 |
| ggabriel | class 10's don't work like you say for real life though | 12:40 |
| ggabriel | that speed may well be met for cameras/continuous read/write | 12:41 |
| ggabriel | but that's not the phone's case | 12:41 |
| ggabriel | where i want it formatted in btrfs and i want to randomly write/read stuff | 12:41 |
| ggabriel | so, my class 10 in the gopro surely work at higher speeds than 7-8MB/s | 12:41 |
| ggabriel | but that's about it | 12:41 |
| coderus | https://twitter.com/n9mx/status/527440294263144448 :D | 12:43 |
| r0kk3rz | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital#Speed_class_rating | 12:43 |
| r0kk3rz | now i get it | 12:43 |
| r0kk3rz | the class defines the minimum specs for both read and write | 12:44 |
| ggabriel | coderus: lol | 12:44 |
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| chem|st | ggabriel: sandisk 32gb U3 has 33MB/s random write on tomshardware | 12:45 |
| chem|st | 512kb | 12:45 |
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| chem|st | well 1MB/s on 4kb | 12:46 |
| ggabriel | i avoid sandisks | 12:46 |
| ggabriel | due to really bad reports/reviews | 12:46 |
| nander | coderus, you're right to tell them that ;). | 12:46 |
| ggabriel | when i bought my first hd camera | 12:46 |
| nander | Sandisk has one brilliant product | 12:46 |
| nander | The clip + | 12:46 |
| chem|st | :) | 12:47 |
| nander | Cheap, great sound, great battery life | 12:47 |
| nander | I have one with a kingston microSD card in it xD | 12:47 |
| ggabriel | the clip and the usb reader are very good tho | 12:47 |
| chem|st | well I wont use my sdcard as root fs or swap, so I don't care about 4kb write speeds | 12:48 |
| nander | I'll be really happy once I have my jolla :) | 12:49 |
| nander | Finally my tinkerphone ;) | 12:49 |
| nander | I had one, but it was stolen | 12:49 |
| nander | And probably thrown in a trashcan | 12:49 |
| nander | I never saw it on ebay and never on alternative second hand websites | 12:49 |
| nander | still in picking | 12:50 |
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| Nicd- | hey tbr: https://huutokaupat.com/fi/v/103028 | 12:55 |
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| tbr | Nicd-: neat, saw similar stuff this summer at jämi fly-in | 12:57 |
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| r0kk3rz | did we get a tracker update in uitukka? | 13:05 |
| Milo- | Nicd- makes me want to buy a tank | 13:14 |
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| chem|st | nander: I'd check in with authorities, some people are dumb enough to actually use it in your country | 16:04 |
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| mdxth | Nicd-, I was trained to drive that kind of vehicle in the army :) | 16:39 |
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| silver_hook | Silly question (I hope): are TOH forward compatible? | 21:22 |
| silver_hook | i.e. Will I be able to use the same TOH in Jolla 2, 3, …? | 21:22 |
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| wazd | No idea | 21:23 |
| Sequenced | unknown | 21:23 |
| silver_hook | Sounds like something to ask on t.j.c ? | 21:24 |
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| silver_hook | Asked | 21:30 |
| * silver_hook sits and waits for the storm | 21:30 | |
| * silver_hook grabs a cuppa tea and puts a pipe between his teeth | 21:31 | |
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| nander | Does anyone have an estimate on the number of jolla devices out in the wild? | 21:59 |
| special | between 0 and 1 billion | 22:00 |
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| * cb400f can personally guarantee it's more than 0 | 22:02 | |
| nander | I'd guess around 50 000, but I dunno | 22:03 |
| nander | I saw two jolla devices next to another once | 22:03 |
| nander | In the wild | 22:03 |
| nander | One was mine, the other wasn't | 22:04 |
| nander | But.. That was in a computer science class @ university, so not really representative | 22:04 |
| nander | I haven't seen any jolla's after that | 22:04 |
| tigeli | cb400f: epsilon? ;) | 22:04 |
| nander | Finland should be at higher % though | 22:04 |
| cb400f | I personally know 5-6 people who have one.. but I never saw more than two in the same place at the same time either | 22:04 |
| tigeli | I've seen over 100 at the same place at the same time ;) | 22:05 |
| nander | I remember that the day after an album release (quite a rare one) I went to a themepark and I saw someone else with the same shirt I had (new album shirt) | 22:05 |
| nander | So I casually complimented him on his shirt ;) | 22:05 |
| nander | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQFmfZCcrYw | 22:06 |
| nander | If you've never heard of Ayreon, you're in for a fun beauty | 22:06 |
| nander | Progressive Rock :) | 22:06 |
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| matrixx | I remember that I once sat on a bus next to a girl who had a white N9. I picked up my white unicorn and we had a brief moment of understanding | 22:07 |
| nander | Finland? | 22:08 |
| matrixx | yes | 22:08 |
| nander | Doesn't count ;) | 22:08 |
| matrixx | hehe ;) | 22:08 |
| nander | I once thought I saw an N9, but it was a **** **** **** phone | 22:08 |
| nander | I bought an N9 around the time **** phone was just released | 22:09 |
| wazd | I saw a woman (!) with N900 (!!) and my Marina theme :D | 22:09 |
| matrixx | though it was not usual even here to have two girls sharing a bench with two white N9:s ;) | 22:09 |
| nander | Nokia had just turned to the dark side | 22:09 |
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| nander | Everyone kept complimenting me on having a ***phone device | 22:09 |
| matrixx | wazd: wow :D | 22:09 |
| wazd | Not long ago btw | 22:09 |
| wazd | Like a year or so | 22:09 |
| nander | Also finland? | 22:09 |
| nander | I saw an N900 and a N9 once here | 22:09 |
| wazd | Nope, Russia | 22:09 |
| nander | Same person though | 22:10 |
| nander | And doesn't count, he's the one other maemon/meego fan in my year | 22:10 |
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| nander | He switched to blackberry, couldn't live without a hwkeyboard | 22:10 |
| wazd | oh, and a girl with N900 too just recently (but she was a programmer) | 22:10 |
| nander | All the girls I meet at my university (not that many, we are tech-oriented) use Android, except for one Iphone and one Windows Phone | 22:11 |
| nander | By the way, has SDL-support (or sfml support) been added to the default libraries? | 22:12 |
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| M4rtinK | nander: AFAIK still nit accepted in Harbour (like Python) | 22:16 |
| nander | Pity | 22:16 |
| nander | Blocks game development | 22:16 |
| M4rtinK | nander: on the other hand, it should be fine in OpenRepos | 22:16 |
| nander | SDL has been ported? | 22:17 |
| M4rtinK | AFAIK yes | 22:17 |
| M4rtinK | https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Porting/Harmattan | 22:17 |
| M4rtinK | 2.0 | 22:18 |
| M4rtinK | https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2014-February/003380.html | 22:18 |
| M4rtinK | and this | 22:18 |
| M4rtinK | https://together.jolla.com/question/22379/porting-sdl-20-game-to-sailfish/ | 22:18 |
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| nander | So SDL is supported, just not python | 22:19 |
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| M4rtinK | well | 22:19 |
| M4rtinK | I meant that just like Python, SDL is not yet supported in Harbour | 22:20 |
| nander | It seems to take a bit awfully long though | 22:20 |
| nander | Slowing development down | 22:20 |
| M4rtinK | but should be fine to distribute in OpenRepos until it is supported in Harbour | 22:20 |
| M4rtinK | tell me about it :) | 22:20 |
| M4rtinK | also GPS - QtPositioning is still not supported in Harbour :) | 22:21 |
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| M4rtinK | a friend of mine is developing FourSail and he joked that there will be no Foursqaure before he can finally submit his app Harbour :) | 22:22 |
| M4rtinK | *to Harbor | 22:22 |
| nander | Still no positioning:( | 22:23 |
| nander | Annoying | 22:23 |
| nander | I have an idea for an app, but it requires QtPositioning | 22:23 |
| nander | Would only be for me though, so no real problem | 22:23 |
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| nander | I also want a find my phone app ;) | 22:23 |
| nander | Which allows remote destroy | 22:24 |
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| M4rtinK | termite TOH ? :) | 22:25 |
| nander | Whaha | 22:26 |
| M4rtinK | might be a bit dangerous though | 22:26 |
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| nander | Just something which totally wrecks the filesystem | 22:26 |
| nander | You'd need root permissions for the app, but it'd be fun | 22:26 |
| wazd | EMP TOH | 22:26 |
| nander | You may laugh, but if you're a high-profile criminal, that's the best way ;) | 22:26 |
| nander | Well, acid would probably be more effective, but still | 22:27 |
| wazd | why would I lagh, I know people who have defibrilators in their server rooms | 22:28 |
| wazd | "In case of emergency" | 22:28 |
| nander | To wreck servers? | 22:29 |
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| wazd | to fry hard drives | 22:29 |
| nander | Makes me wonder if it's 100% effective | 22:29 |
| nander | Or if you have a chance to keep data | 22:29 |
| wazd | nonexistent chance | 22:30 |
| nander | Chemicals work best, but are most complex to operate ;) | 22:30 |
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| r0kk3rz | get the capacitor out of a camera, tazer-toh | 22:32 |
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| pdanek | I can't sleep. | 23:00 |
| pdanek | TOHKBD is too much pressure | 23:01 |
| pdanek | :D | 23:01 |
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| nander | pdanek : assert (" Everything is going to be allright" ); | 23:11 |
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| nander | Do you like progressive rock? | 23:13 |
| nander | It always soothes me | 23:13 |
| pdanek | nander: I prefer swing, electroswing, ... | 23:15 |
| pdanek | but my headphones are broken | 23:15 |
| pdanek | so in full hype mode | 23:15 |
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| nander | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQFmfZCcrYw << This is what I'm listening to right now | 23:18 |
| nander | Bloody brilliant | 23:18 |
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| nander | For the Finns, a well-known Finnish singer is guest musician on that album | 23:24 |
| nander | Marco Hietala ;) | 23:24 |
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| keithzg | I was still waiting on the new version of the Lego TOH, but now I guess I'm also waiting for the TOHKBD kickstarter, heh. | 23:43 |
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