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| samikshan | Urgent help needed: My phone was stolen today morning. Is there anyway I can remotely wipe all data from my phone to prevent abuse? | 04:26 |
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| Stskeeps | samikshan: did you use a lock code? | 04:30 |
| samikshan | Stskeeps: Yes. I did have a lock code. | 04:31 |
| samikshan | But I suspect, the internal phone data can be accessed if connected to a laptop via USB. | 04:32 |
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| Stskeeps | samikshan: not really, unless you unlocked your bootloader | 05:34 |
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| Stskeeps | samikshan: we often to go a bar nearby jolla offices and in order not to have our data slip out, we made sure we can trust our device if lost :P | 05:34 |
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| samikshan | Stskeeps: Oh okay. Thanks for the information. | 05:48 |
| samikshan | :) | 05:48 |
| samikshan | That's comforting. But still really heartbroken having lost my brand new sweet Jolla phone. :( | 05:49 |
| Stskeeps | can imagine | 05:50 |
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| Yaniel | what can youaccess from recovery mode? | 05:55 |
| Yaniel | or does it ask for the security code when connecting, if set | 05:56 |
| Stskeeps | it'll ask | 05:56 |
| Yaniel | okay | 05:56 |
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| Nicd- | update 9 is smooooooth | 06:10 |
| Nicd- | damn | 06:10 |
| Nicd- | also video playback on the android side was much improved \o/ | 06:11 |
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| tadzik | so theoretically the only way would be to physically rip out the internal memory and connect to it manually "somehow"? | 06:11 |
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| tadzik | Nicd-: it vibrates! :D | 06:11 |
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| tadzik | best update since june | 06:11 |
| Nicd- | tadzik: I suppose so | 06:11 |
| Stskeeps | tadzik: yeah but it's kinda in a pop package on top of the cpu isn't it | 06:11 |
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| Stskeeps | and mem | 06:11 |
| Stskeeps | at which point it just gets friggen annoying | 06:11 |
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| tadzik | right | 06:12 |
| Nicd- | that sort of thing would be infeasible for the common crook | 06:12 |
| tadzik | good :) | 06:12 |
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| Nicd- | they'll just probably try to sell it online without the buyer seeing it. then hopefully the buyer will contact the police and maybe the phone will find its way back | 06:13 |
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| freemangordon | Hi guys, recently me and jonwil are trying to reverse engineer the Nokia closed blobs in pulseaudio on N900. So far we have done pretty much good job (IMO), see https://gitorious.org/pulseaudio-nokia/pulseaudio-nokia/source/f7969f2f24b5779a6e2ef0ee8fdf111a9c720fea: . | 06:15 |
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| freemangordon | Anyway, there are a couple of modules which are hard to RE (though not impossible), like xprot armcc optimized functions, AEP, etc. , so, any help (like a couple of old files living on your HDD or debug symbols from some old builds or whatever like that) will be greatly appreciated as it will make our life way easier. If anyone is willing to help, please /query me or jonwil, we won't disclose anything in public. | 06:15 |
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| Stskeeps | long story short, when finishing old gigs it's pretty normal to wipe your hds. | 06:16 |
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| tbr | yeah, the machines on my desk were still busy with dd if=/dev/zero of=$variousdevices when I walked out the office for the last time | 06:17 |
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| freemangordon | was that ans answer to my question? | 06:18 |
| Stskeeps | pretty much - the people who worked on it was subcontractors and they definately had to wipe their stuff before starting new projects | 06:18 |
| freemangordon | well, it worths me nothing to try. after all rules are not strictly followed every time, etc | 06:20 |
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| Stskeeps | nod | 06:20 |
| Stskeeps | just be careful not to taint others, ie, at least from my perspective i would want nothing to do with those bits :P | 06:20 |
| freemangordon | do you really think I want to have something in common with that can of worms? :p | 06:21 |
| freemangordon | But there seems to be no option, if we want to have some progress, like upstream kernel or newer PA | 06:21 |
| Stskeeps | nod | 06:21 |
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| freemangordon | if you are curious, look at what we have so far. Trust me, I *don't* want to RE NEON by using gcc intrinsics. | 06:23 |
| freemangordon | or in any other form | 06:23 |
| jonwil | We also need it if we want a cellular modem that isn't the same as the Nokia N900 | 06:24 |
| freemangordon | that one too | 06:24 |
| Stskeeps | also as a general note from any projects i've been involved with.. armcc usually means some idiot on the other side of the world provides .o's for you | 06:24 |
| Stskeeps | ie, no source | 06:24 |
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| freemangordon | :nod: | 06:25 |
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| freemangordon | though even the debug symbols will be of great help | 06:25 |
| Stskeeps | even without those | 06:25 |
| Stskeeps | jonwil: nowadays those bits kinda come within the modems themselves | 06:26 |
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| Stskeeps | ie we don't have xprot and such on jolla | 06:26 |
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| freemangordon | yep, but cmtspeech is statically linked in the voice module | 06:27 |
| freemangordon | on n900 | 06:27 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. | 06:27 |
| Stskeeps | 11 november 2009.. heh, such a long time ago | 06:28 |
| Stskeeps | that device was awesome | 06:28 |
| freemangordon | which one? | 06:28 |
| Stskeeps | n900 | 06:28 |
| freemangordon | was? | 06:28 |
| Stskeeps | okay, is :P | 06:28 |
| Stskeeps | but compared to what i'd have to use it for today, it has issues | 06:28 |
| freemangordon | my still works fine | 06:28 |
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| Sail0r | it's too slow for nowadays websites :-/ | 06:29 |
| jonwil | My N900 works great although it crashes microb anytime I try to use it for long www.whirlpool.net.au :( | 06:30 |
| freemangordon | it is because gecko is pretty much ancient on it | 06:30 |
| freemangordon | not that the HW is not capable. sure it is not 4 cores and 2 gigs | 06:30 |
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| Stskeeps | i liked n900 because it was well, productivity while mobile | 06:31 |
| jonwil | Updating gecko would be great, not sure how it could be done without breaking the things that are reliant on its plugin API | 06:31 |
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| Stskeeps | did you know jolla's chief designer was behind the n900 ui too? | 06:31 |
| freemangordon | And that is why we want maemo on newer devices. Which can't be achieved without having whatever possible open. In some shape | 06:31 |
| freemangordon | no, I was not aware | 06:32 |
| jonwil | My work on MCE was only the first step to making this device open, the PulseAudio work is the next step | 06:32 |
| Stskeeps | "Martin Schüle is the Principal Designer of Maemo5 User Interface. He is a creative lead with more than 10 years of experience in multidisciplinary design like user interface design, interaction design, industrial design, graphical design and exhibition design; from target settings up to final deliverables. Prior to joining Nokia in 2003 Martin worked in Design agencies in Germany as well as in Finland. During his career Martin received ... | 06:32 |
| freemangordon | too bad jollaphone doesn't have much in common with n900, at least from what I know | 06:32 |
| Stskeeps | ... several Design Awards, as well as Nokia internal awards and has been number one User Interface inventor in Nokia Devices based on the patent filings during the 1st half 2009. Martin holds a degree in Industrial Design" | 06:32 |
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| Stskeeps | well, it's a different ui for sure | 06:33 |
| Stskeeps | but in terms of productivity, well, besides the lack of landscape, it is a device that i very quickly interact on and then put away, ie a lot of microinteractions | 06:33 |
| Stskeeps | sms come in, doubletap, check events view, walk away.. | 06:34 |
| Stskeeps | so in that regard it makes me more productive | 06:34 |
| freemangordon | my biggest problem is the lack of HW keyboard. and please, don;t tell me about TOH HW lbd :) | 06:34 |
| freemangordon | *kbd | 06:34 |
| Stskeeps | nod | 06:34 |
| Stskeeps | no need when you already know ;) | 06:34 |
| freemangordon | I am following the development on TMO | 06:35 |
| freemangordon | out of curiocity, but still | 06:35 |
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| freemangordon | anyway, I still hope there are some remnants living on someone's hd. pa that is | 06:37 |
| Stskeeps | did you know somebody is putting sailfish on htc desire z, ooi? | 06:38 |
| Stskeeps | http://forum.xda-developers.com/htc-desire-z/development/teaser-vision-sailfish-os-1-0-8-19-t2885230 | 06:38 |
| Stskeeps | hw keyboard, too | 06:38 |
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| _cvp_ | hmm... no gstreamer update, no xmpp extension, no calendar date in notification, :( | 06:39 |
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| Stskeeps | ;P | 06:39 |
| Stskeeps | er, :P | 06:39 |
| freemangordon | isn't that device as old as n900 is? | 06:40 |
| Stskeeps | well, november 2010 | 06:40 |
| freemangordon | oh, much better :P | 06:40 |
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| Stskeeps | you probably think it's heresy but if i was out of a job today and wanted to continue maemo heritage, i'd build a component set around it in qml, not worry about old devices but instead what devices you could enable, build a qml homescreen with lipstick, reutilize sailfishos hw adaptation ability to existing android devices to get interested parties; and then build the ui you want much easier, leveraging middleware work done by others.. but ... | 06:43 |
| Stskeeps | ... that's my view after having gotten way too many grey hairs of pulling off an entire stack | 06:43 |
| Nicd- | but CardDAV! \o/ | 06:44 |
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| Nicd- | related to _cvp_ | 06:44 |
| _cvp_ | Nicd and you have a working CardDAV? i try with my ownclud server...but still not work | 06:44 |
| freemangordon | Stskeeps: that makes sense if "we" want to drop n900 support. Which "we" don't so far | 06:45 |
| Stskeeps | nod | 06:45 |
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| pp_ | n900 is unique hardware, still :-) | 06:46 |
| pp_ | (despite large parts of it being obsolete, even on launch day) | 06:46 |
| Stskeeps | i'm still shocked that motorola shipped a omap3 smartwatch | 06:46 |
| freemangordon | yep, but it is RAM limited, so putting QML UI on it will make it crawl like a snail, see Meego DE | 06:46 |
| Stskeeps | well, that's not necessarily a given | 06:47 |
| Stskeeps | ram is all about application lifecycle | 06:47 |
| Stskeeps | i've seen really fast qt on that thing | 06:47 |
| freemangordon | with hildon-desktop? | 06:47 |
| Stskeeps | sure, or other things | 06:47 |
| freemangordon | and gtk in the basement. | 06:47 |
| Stskeeps | i've had sailfish ui on this thing: http://www.gsmarena.com/alcatel_one_touch_fire-5319.php | 06:48 |
| Stskeeps | perfectly fine | 06:48 |
| freemangordon | my daughter has it :) | 06:48 |
| Stskeeps | it's nicely hackable but damn, it's low on memory | 06:48 |
| _cvp_ | Nicd- and you have a working CardDAV? i try with my ownclud server...but still not work | 06:48 |
| freemangordon | iirc it has 1GB of RAM | 06:48 |
| Stskeeps | modem takes like half of available ram | 06:48 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, no :P | 06:48 |
| Nicd- | _cvp_: no, I don't have owncloud yet. but I'm happy it's progressing :) | 06:49 |
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| _cvp_ | yeah let us hope all things will work next year if the second Jolla phone will release... | 06:50 |
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| entil | I wish there was younited support already | 06:51 |
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| stephg | morning guys | 06:58 |
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| chem|st | what/where is that sailfish utilities? | 07:15 |
| Nicd- | in the store | 07:15 |
| Nicd- | when you have installed it you can find it in the settings | 07:15 |
| stephg | what does it do when it's installed? (having to do a balance after updating so can't look yet) | 07:15 |
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| Nicd- | provides a few buttons in the settings app | 07:16 |
| Nicd- | to do stuff like restart alien dalvik or restart networking or clear backups and stuff | 07:16 |
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| chem|st | stephg: ? still balancing problmes? | 07:16 |
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| chem|st | Nicd-: what store? my store does not show anything | 07:16 |
| chem|st | neither does zypper pkcon... | 07:17 |
| Nicd- | chem|st: jolla store. seach 'sailfish utilities' | 07:17 |
| Nicd- | do you have update 9 installed? | 07:17 |
| chem|st | ah.. found it... | 07:18 |
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| chem|st | Stskeeps: would be nice to show it as _NEW_ | 07:18 |
| stephg | chem|st: 13.75GB used 13.25GB but only FS bytes used 8.29GB so I'm balancing here before I go to work :) | 07:18 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: and it does not show in jolla essentials | 07:18 |
| stephg | it's the update that did that so it'll sort itself out with a balance | 07:19 |
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| stephg | Nicd-: cool thx | 07:19 |
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| chem|st | I have 5GB overhead after the upgrade, and ~6GB more used (8.x->15.xGB used) | 07:32 |
| stephg | chem|st: balance finished and I regained 1GB | 07:32 |
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| chem|st | ah no wrong fs but that is even more interesting... that is my sdcard that was balanced to ~1GB overhead... | 07:33 |
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| chem|st | the internal has not increased, it decreased, had 8GB available and has now 9GB :) | 07:34 |
| chem|st | overhead is still 100% 4GB fs 8GB with meta | 07:35 |
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| chem|st | accounts are shred again! | 07:37 |
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| tadzik | hmm, no zypper on device? | 07:40 |
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| chem|st | tadzik: not by default, use pkcon | 07:41 |
| tadzik | I need to remove some warehouse packages, and the warehouse doesn't seem to support taht | 07:41 |
| tadzik | chem|st: oh, that's fine. Thanks | 07:41 |
| AL13N_work | the new btrfs does have better balancing of meta vs data | 07:41 |
| AL13N_work | it can free up meta and allocate to data if needed | 07:41 |
| AL13N_work | well, not like that version is on the jolla anyway | 07:42 |
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| ballock | AL13N_work: there's some new btrfs... | 07:42 |
| ballock | not on Jolla? | 07:42 |
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| AL13N_work | well, that was pretty recent, where it can de-allocate meta automatically when needed (and if there's enough free) | 07:43 |
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| AL13N_work | like, a few months ago, max a year, so it might be in 3.16 ... so i doubt jolla has that btrfs version | 07:43 |
| ballock | AL13N_work: when I was working through the btrfs-progs patches yesterday | 07:44 |
| tadzik | aargh, patchmanager, why you do this | 07:44 |
| ballock | and that didn't work as it was there already | 07:44 |
| ballock | I got a temptation to backport 3.16 btrfs to the Jolla kernel | 07:45 |
| tbr | backporting from current vanilla to an ancient frankenkernel is a major major PITA | 07:45 |
| tbr | a lot of the subsystems have changed etc | 07:45 |
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| ballock | tbr: that's the only thing that held me back | 07:45 |
| ballock | and some sanity | 07:45 |
| tbr | IIRC there was a whole filesystem infrastructure rewrite along the way | 07:45 |
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| chem|st | and I thought we are on 3.16 | 07:46 |
| ballock | How bad are we stuck with the Qualcomm kernel? | 07:46 |
| chem|st | with current release | 07:46 |
| tbr | ballock: very bad | 07:46 |
| ballock | They wouldn't support *anything* newere than that? | 07:47 |
| chem|st | ballock: bad is not even a close description | 07:47 |
| pettter | so my vibration has stopped working.. again | 07:47 |
| tbr | ballock: it's an "evil vendor kernel", aka frankenkernel, aka: vanilla + random patches + qualcomm + ODM + Jolla | 07:47 |
| pettter | is it actually working for anyone? | 07:48 |
| stephg | pettter: does it work if you try in the csd app? | 07:48 |
| tbr | ballock: I recommend Tim Bird's presentation during ELCE on obstacles to upstreaming. he showed this very clearly. | 07:48 |
| pettter | stephg: I can shake it to start it then | 07:49 |
| pettter | but that's the only way | 07:49 |
| Nicd- | vibration is working just fine for me | 07:49 |
| ballock | ummm.. cherry-pick of random patches if they still apply, rebase of Qaulcomm drivers and ODM, and rebase of whatever Jolla? | 07:49 |
| ballock | tbr: link? | 07:49 |
| tbr | hmm, not sure what is online yet | 07:49 |
| tbr | slides should be | 07:49 |
| ballock | vanilla + random patches + qualcomm + ODM + Jolla + backported filesystem changes from 3.16 + btrfs from 3.16 + new tcp stack from ... + | 07:51 |
| tbr | http://lccoelce14.sched.org/event/636f687ab244f7abe8ded4fa28660f7c?iframe=no&w=&sidebar=yes&bg=no | 07:51 |
| pettter | guess I'll make a follow-up request for repair :( | 07:51 |
| AL13N_work | we can only hope QC gives a more recent recent at some point in time | 07:51 |
| tbr | yes, I lumped the backports in the 'jolla' bit | 07:51 |
| AL13N_work | s/recent recent/recent kernel/ | 07:51 |
| tbr | AL13N_work: that won't work for very obvious reasons | 07:51 |
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| ballock | When the guys from xda were hacking archos, they got to finding the diff between Archos and TI kernel | 07:52 |
| ballock | so they were able to rebase that with some handcraft to newer TI kernel | 07:53 |
| ballock | Still, that's still TI kernel, not vanilla | 07:53 |
| AL13N_work | tbr: is there anything besides QC that needs 3.4 kernel? | 07:53 |
| ballock | AL13N_work: sounds like sb wants to resolder the chip | 07:53 |
| AL13N_work | heh | 07:54 |
| tbr | ballock: I'm quite careful with those franken-kernels. Also there are many many TI kernels, even for OMAP4. It's always a mess | 07:54 |
| ballock | tbr: no slides there | 07:55 |
| tbr | ballock: yeah, didn't find those yet | 07:55 |
| tbr | ballock: that was just the schedule abstract to give you an idea | 07:56 |
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| tbr | ballock: http://www.elinux.org/Overcoming_Obstacles_to_Mainlining | 07:57 |
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| AL13N_work | tbr: after reading that, i get sudden bump of demotivation | 08:03 |
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| ballock | I just saw the number of custom Qualcomm commits, 20395. That's like... well | 08:04 |
| AL13N_work | oh boy | 08:04 |
| tbr | now you might understand why I'm claiming that moving around kernels is infeasible | 08:04 |
| tbr | for sure you can boot mainline on the jolla | 08:05 |
| ballock | *boot*...? | 08:05 |
| tbr | BUT, all you will get is output on the debug UART | 08:05 |
| AL13N_work | so, the debug UART is supported? | 08:05 |
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| tbr | I know there is one on the device, yes. | 08:05 |
| AL13N_work | joy | 08:06 |
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| AL13N_work | so, we can only change kernel after QC puts stuff in upstream? | 08:06 |
| ballock | Wow, so then I'll be able to work my way through those 20k commits to port the drivers! | 08:06 |
| ballock | Hurray! | 08:06 |
| AL13N_work | which is not happening ever? | 08:06 |
| ballock | AL13N_work: I think that's the case | 08:06 |
| ballock | They will probably patch security-wise, if at all | 08:07 |
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| ballock | but they focus on new chips, and new kernels there | 08:07 |
| ballock | Want a new kernel, buy a new chip | 08:07 |
| AL13N_work | shit | 08:07 |
| AL13N_work | i wonder if we could buy an upgrade from Jolla | 08:08 |
| ballock | I think TI was a little better in this. | 08:08 |
| pp_ | that's android :-) | 08:08 |
| pp_ | you get commodity hardware, and a commodity kernel to go with it | 08:08 |
| AL13N_work | i guess this is why people want mobile phones in brick-components | 08:08 |
| ballock | There's too much of a single vendor in the chip | 08:09 |
| ballock | The PC commodity consists of a number of hw manufacturers | 08:09 |
| ballock | each need to cooperate with the rest | 08:09 |
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| AL13N_work | so, in a sense, if someone put in all the time to get through 20k commits and ports a new driver upstream in kernel, it might happen? | 08:10 |
| ballock | and it's easier to swap one piece for that from a different company that does this better | 08:10 |
| ballock | AL13N_work: I believe so | 08:11 |
| AL13N_work | but that's herculean work | 08:11 |
| ballock | Some foss projects did that | 08:11 |
| AL13N_work | though if you understand all 20k commits, you will understand the chip almost completely | 08:11 |
| ballock | they focused on one chip, brought it down to pieces and | 08:11 |
| AL13N_work | ballock: i wish you good luck | 08:12 |
| ballock | provided all the drivers in a detached form, if possible to vanilla | 08:12 |
| ballock | Well, it's not my league. | 08:12 |
| AL13N_work | myeah | 08:12 |
| ballock | In this sense I'm wiping dust of the runners' shoes. | 08:13 |
| AL13N_work | This will take > 1y fulltime to get this poitn... who's gonna do this? | 08:13 |
| ballock | A group of passionate people, like the one that works in Jolla | 08:13 |
| ballock | but unfortunately, the guys there are busy with more important things | 08:14 |
| AL13N_work | what i mean, is that no company can pay this, because this is just to get on equal footing | 08:14 |
| AL13N_work | it's investment without payoff | 08:14 |
| pp_ | hmn, http://www.slideshare.net/QualcommDeveloperNetwork/75-ubuntu-linuxsnapdragoncharleboisdechesnepatil918gg45 | 08:14 |
| AL13N_work | just to be able to upgrade older devices and not sell new ones... | 08:14 |
| pp_ | upgrade to 3.14 is "work in progress" | 08:14 |
| AL13N_work | pp_: but that's not the device in Jolla, right? | 08:15 |
| ballock | Hmm... htat might be close enough | 08:15 |
| pp_ | parts of it may apply, others may not | 08:16 |
| AL13N_work | well, it's something | 08:16 |
| pp_ | I'd assume https://www.codeaurora.org/cgit/quic/la/kernel/msm-3.14/ or whatnot | 08:16 |
| AL13N_work | it might lessen the work, that's true | 08:16 |
| pp_ | but tracking exactly the bits you would need to boot that beast on a jolla :-) | 08:17 |
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| pp_ | "pain" :-) | 08:17 |
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| ballock | So - there's hope! | 08:20 |
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| AL13N_work | hope == pain | 08:21 |
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| pp_ | https://www.codeaurora.org/cgit/quic/la/kernel/msm-3.14/tree/arch/arm/mach-msm?h=linux-linaro-stable/arm64-v3.10 vs. https://github.com/KonstaT/sailfishos_kernel_jolla_msm8930/tree/master/arch/arm/mach-msm tho. and that's just one part of the puzzle :) | 08:22 |
| ballock | arm64? snap600 is arm64? | 08:23 |
| ballock | or snap400 too? | 08:23 |
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| AL13N_work | wth arm64 | 08:25 |
| pp_ | hmn might have the wrong branch or whatnot | 08:25 |
| AL13N_work | indeed | 08:25 |
| AL13N_work | well, still, i suppose that too can be used | 08:25 |
| pp_ | (might be they mostly working on new kernels for arm64) | 08:25 |
| ballock | If I had the time like in http://xkcd.com/505/ | 08:25 |
| ballock | I would do it. | 08:25 |
| AL13N_work | heh | 08:27 |
| ballock | I'm interested to hear what frieking insanity made QC provide it's own wlan implemetnation | 08:29 |
| ballock | either they already had it and it was easier to just push the blob | 08:30 |
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| ballock | or it was so coupled with 3g or whatever that they couldn't work with the vanilla wifi stack | 08:30 |
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| Nicd- | the calendar performance improved so much with update 9 | 09:39 |
| Scelt | yeah. big thanks to the calendar master | 09:40 |
| Nicd- | big thanks to Qt 5.2 I guess :P | 09:40 |
| Scelt | maybe :) | 09:41 |
| xfade_ | Nicd-: no, that was more sqlite work etc.. | 09:41 |
| Nicd- | xfade_: I meant UI performance | 09:41 |
| Nicd- | like scrolling in the month view | 09:41 |
| Nicd- | it used to be terribly laggy | 09:41 |
| xfade_ | Nicd-: Ah, right | 09:41 |
| Scelt | and creating a new one | 09:41 |
| Nicd- | xfade_: are you a sailor? | 09:43 |
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| inte | The Jolla camera sucks | 09:48 |
| Nicd- | it's... challenging :) | 09:48 |
| inte | I want a Pureview808 cam in my Jolla! | 09:49 |
| inte | ASAP!! | 09:49 |
| Scelt | with a scratched lens, it's annoying | 09:49 |
| inte | :) | 09:49 |
| inte | Scelt: even without | 09:49 |
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| Nicd- | it has its moments: https://plus.google.com/u/1/photos/110693235602405640560/albums/5951600878348798689/6046030986364664066?pid=6046030986364664066&oid=110693235602405640560 | 09:50 |
| Nicd- | but yes, it's a pretty mediocre camera | 09:51 |
| inte | well ok that pic isnt too bad if it was really made with a Jolla phone | 09:51 |
| inte | I honestly doubt that | 09:51 |
| inte | :) | 09:51 |
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| Nicd- | inte: all pics in that album starting with the keyboard pic are taken with my Jolla | 09:52 |
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| inte | ah cool | 09:58 |
| inte | didnt know it were yours | 09:58 |
| inte | and the info could easily be faked | 09:59 |
| inte | seems you have some experience using your jolla cam | 09:59 |
| inte | i mostly have trouble indoors | 09:59 |
| inte | the weissabgleich (missing the english word) obviously fails quite often | 09:59 |
| inte | resulting in very strange colors | 10:00 |
| Nicd- | white balance | 10:00 |
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| inte | might help to convert them to black and white :) | 10:00 |
| Nicd- | someone should make a camera app capable of RAW photos so we could edit them | 10:00 |
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| inte | i have cameraplus but i dont know if it does RAW | 10:01 |
| inte | there was a brilliant app for the n900!! | 10:01 |
| inte | was soo good at that time | 10:02 |
| inte | i still dont understand nokia why they destroyed maemo | 10:02 |
| inte | and then meego | 10:02 |
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| inte | or was it Microsoft | 10:02 |
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| Nicd- | there was an app for N900 which did RAW | 10:07 |
| Nicd- | also I'd love actual manual focus | 10:07 |
| Nicd- | focusing is the thing I have most problems with in the Jolla camera | 10:07 |
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| tadzik | shameless self-ad: https://together.jolla.com/question/60104/selectively-enable-specific-system-sounds/ | 10:21 |
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| chem|st | inte: it was microsoft | 10:31 |
| inte | well, or rather the shareholders | 10:32 |
| inte | they just couldnt imaging that there was a company that could actually do software | 10:32 |
| inte | apart from SAP | 10:32 |
| inte | the backed Elop who virtually distroyed the company | 10:33 |
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| inte | but still | 10:33 |
| inte | Nokia did enough crap before that | 10:33 |
| inte | no clear strategy, burning money | 10:33 |
| chem|st | inte: no one can proof it but that was a planed microsoft takeover -> microsoft ceo changes direction of nokia towards microsoft, destroys all inhouse competition | 10:33 |
| Jope | my view on it all is, that nokia's matrix organization is partially to blame.. | 10:33 |
| Jope | the whole company was fighting against each other | 10:33 |
| Jope | symbian had more backers high up | 10:33 |
| inte | Jope: sure | 10:33 |
| inte | i would also think so | 10:34 |
| Jope | thus meego was the red-headed step child | 10:34 |
| Stskeeps | with no soul! | 10:34 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:34 |
| Jope | and many things were done to not insult the holy symbian | 10:34 |
| inte | but still, noone from nokia was actually behind windows | 10:34 |
| Jope | for example no cellmos in maemo devices before the n900.. | 10:34 |
| jonwil | Symbian was (and is) crap | 10:34 |
| Jope | true, I read something about an analyst company helping forge the future | 10:34 |
| inte | oh, symbian wasnt that particular bad | 10:34 |
| Jope | those analysts were probably looking at wp and android and nothing else | 10:35 |
| inte | but meego just far better :) | 10:35 |
| Nicd- | symbian WAS that bad | 10:35 |
| Jope | nokia also took way too long to get its qt act together. | 10:35 |
| Nicd- | in fact it was even worse | 10:35 |
| Jope | it would have solved many of the symbian coder wtfs | 10:35 |
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| inte | and they were blaming Nokia of loosing smartphone market share despite Nokia was still growing | 10:35 |
| Jope | but it came too late | 10:35 |
| inte | that was so ridiculous | 10:35 |
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| jonwil | What Nokia did with Symbian vs MeeGo is like what Apple did when the mac first came out, the guy running the company (the Pepsi guy) didn't want to give the Mac too much push because it would hurt their bread and butter (the Apple 2) | 10:36 |
| inte | but the symbian/qt thing was quite amazing | 10:36 |
| Jope | but yeah, just my opinion.. and everyone has one | 10:36 |
| inte | one code, meego and symbian apps | 10:36 |
| Jope | yeh..' | 10:36 |
| chem|st | people compared smartphone market shares... and stopped comparing real market share | 10:36 |
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| Jope | nokia wasn't exactly on the verge of bankruptcy when elop came along | 10:36 |
| Jope | he could have gradually steered the company towards an upward trend | 10:37 |
| jonwil | I have read the Symbian source code (the bits that were made public anyway) and its totally impossible to make any sense of it | 10:37 |
| Jope | instead the option taken was to shit on everything and kill off all the internal stuff | 10:37 |
| chem|st | the N9 sold better on markets it was not advertised to as any lumia of that time | 10:37 |
| Jope | naturally my opinion on the upward trend is less emphasis on symbian and more emphasis on meego :---D | 10:37 |
| inte | jope when Elop came along Nokia Mobile still HAD an upward trend!! | 10:38 |
| Jope | true also | 10:38 |
| inte | The thing is that Elop wanted Nokia to push Microsoft WP | 10:38 |
| inte | that was clear from the begining | 10:38 |
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| inte | the only question is why he was chosen as CEO at all | 10:39 |
| inte | and that were the US-shareholders | 10:39 |
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| jonwil | I think part of the problem Nokia had at the time is that they basically had near-zero presence in the USA for anything above their mass-market dumbphones | 10:39 |
| Jope | so what :-) | 10:39 |
| Jope | nokia was doing quite great elsewhere | 10:39 |
| inte | who were probably easy to convince that an MS operating system is clearly better that something from Europe | 10:39 |
| jonwil | None of the major US carriers were interested in Symbian or Maemo/Meego | 10:39 |
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| Jope | that problem was probably in the investors' heads | 10:39 |
| Teme | is there a known bug where Internet sharing / WLAN hotspot becomes undisableable? | 10:40 |
| Jope | well, you will never know who was interested in meego and who wasn't | 10:40 |
| Jope | that data was not public | 10:40 |
| Teme | (is undisableable a real word) | 10:40 |
| inte | Nokia/Lumia still has near-zero presence in the US, btw:) | 10:40 |
| cowboy | jonwil: low presence in usa, but it owned the rest of the world | 10:40 |
| inte | Who cares about the US market? The world is so huge | 10:40 |
| inte | Look at china for instance | 10:40 |
| inte | russia | 10:40 |
| inte | anywhere | 10:40 |
| Jope | the us makes certain mobile trends, that's for sure | 10:40 |
| ggabriel | inte: in hindsight... ;) | 10:40 |
| ggabriel | Teme: happened to me, only twice, and only once i rebooted | 10:41 |
| Teme | ok | 10:41 |
| inte | at least MS eventually dropped the Nokia brand completly now | 10:41 |
| ggabriel | try airplane mode and then disable it | 10:41 |
| Teme | was there a tjc? | 10:41 |
| chem|st | people think the US market is big, but it isn't, asia middle east is big and that is what Jolla is going to first after their home market | 10:41 |
| ggabriel | Teme: no idea | 10:41 |
| inte | Jope: but not all us trend are big in the rest of the world | 10:41 |
| jonwil | I still think the N900 is the best phone ever made | 10:41 |
| inte | especially for mobile | 10:41 |
| Jope | true | 10:41 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: but that's a recent trend, not sure that was the mindset when elop joined nokia | 10:41 |
| ggabriel | well... relatively recent trend | 10:41 |
| Teme | ggabriel: still unable to disable but thx :( | 10:42 |
| ggabriel | problem with investors is that they think, while all companies need is their money | 10:42 |
| ggabriel | leave thinking to the professionals | 10:42 |
| chem|st | jonwil: agreed, if that beast had been made today it would been my next phone (probably ordering it now^^) | 10:42 |
| tadzik | I think it was a pretty bad phone (n900), but surely the best mobile device I ever had | 10:42 |
| inte | I personally think Nokia should rejoin with Jolla and kick WPs ass with some brilliant NokiaSailfish phones with HERE and Pureview :) | 10:42 |
| tadzik | ircing from the metro was awesome, ui freezing when someone called not so much | 10:43 |
| inte | tadzik: nice description and i totally agree | 10:43 |
| chem|st | jonwil: even with the current maemo-extras repo it is way ahead of any other phone | 10:43 |
| inte | tadzik: i would even call the N900 a phone at all :) | 10:43 |
| tadzik | I don't even want a phone though :) | 10:43 |
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| ggabriel | i regret not getting an n900 | 10:43 |
| tadzik | I want an alarm clock with a gps | 10:43 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: recent? asia middle east and africa is trending for a decade now... | 10:43 |
| inte | ggabriel: you could still go for a neo900 :) | 10:44 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: yes, relatively recently, and i'm talking about the mindset that looked at asia/africa more than the stats | 10:44 |
| Aard | USA market was more like a status symbol, it should have been clear long time ago (even for nokia) that you don't make much money there (and get sued anyway) | 10:44 |
| ggabriel | inte: i'm watching that space, i like sailfish tho | 10:44 |
| inte | yeah | 10:45 |
| ggabriel | +1 Aard, and look at china how much they love their iphones when they can afford dthem | 10:45 |
| ggabriel | (sadly) | 10:45 |
| inte | the worst thing was that nokia didnt sell the n950 | 10:45 |
| ggabriel | if USA, then good | 10:45 |
| ggabriel | +1 inte :) | 10:45 |
| inte | that would have been a true successor for the n900 | 10:45 |
| chem|st | Aard: I'd abandone the US completely, if they want my product they have to build their own import routes | 10:45 |
| ggabriel | i'd have never transitioned from the n9 tho | 10:46 |
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| ggabriel | erm n950 | 10:46 |
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| Pawky | inte: you are not considering Jolla a true successor? | 10:46 |
| Aard | chem|st: my personal opinion about USA business is "we can give it a try -- after you sort out your fucked up patent system and your NSA issues" | 10:46 |
| inte | Pawky: well, from the software side, it is | 10:46 |
| tadzik | welllll | 10:47 |
| inte | Pawky: but i guess i somewhat started this discussion by complaining about the camera :) | 10:47 |
| Teme | https://together.jolla.com/question/59874/release-notes-opt-in-upgrade-to-software-version-11038-uitukka/ btw what's this? | 10:47 |
| Teme | TL;DR | 10:47 |
| ggabriel | Teme: read the question, it's all very well explained | 10:47 |
| ggabriel | well.... | 10:47 |
| Pawky | well... its a phone camera, what do people expect... its a phone for christ sake... | 10:47 |
| Scelt | Teme: new opt-in update, update9 as it is | 10:48 |
| ggabriel | nah, a camera similar to the n9's would have been so much better, but you can't have everything | 10:48 |
| Pawky | there are camera cameras for taking photos... | 10:48 |
| cowboy | http://gigjets.com/10/19342-jolla-2-release-date-sailfish-os-update/ | 10:48 |
| tadzik | from the UI side, N900 was imho still in the desktop mindset (clicking), while Jolla is neck deep in the touch mindset (gestures) | 10:48 |
| inte | Plus, since Jolla is not as big as Nokia once was it is rather unknown to the public (except for finland) | 10:48 |
| tadzik | I remember seeing the first demos and thinking "hey, they actually got it right" | 10:48 |
| inte | Pawky: well, other phone cams are just better now and Nokia used to make the best | 10:48 |
| Teme | ggabriel: yeah ok i get what it is, but when is the actual update coming and is it the same | 10:49 |
| Pawky | Well I think Jolla is definitely a good start, if they could achieve this with their limitations, we could probably expect a LOT from the next generation :-) | 10:49 |
| inte | Pawky: thats what id also think but the still might need some backing of... maybe nokia | 10:50 |
| Pawky | inte: buy the DSC-QX10, like I did, if you want, as I did, all problem solved (well you will have to write the app though) | 10:50 |
| chem|st | Jolla could try to buy the design (n950) and build _the_ developer device for sailfish, every time they release a new phone they put the same hardware in their developer kit - toh pinout could be adapted to the design and it ships with a detachable dev board... | 10:50 |
| inte | Pawky: so you wrote an app? | 10:50 |
| Pawky | I am trying to... but I am not a programmer, more of a hacker.. | 10:50 |
| inte | Pawky: see | 10:50 |
| Pawky | its dead simple though, speaks through http... | 10:50 |
| inte | but bluetooth right? | 10:51 |
| Pawky | nope, wireless | 10:51 |
| Pawky | http://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/cyber-shot-compact-cameras/dsc-qx10 | 10:51 |
| inte | so why dont you use the android app then? | 10:51 |
| Pawky | I was thinking about 3d printing the detachable backplate onto a Jolla backplate... then nobody can complain about bad cameras any more :-) | 10:52 |
| Pawky | you cannot... | 10:52 |
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| inte | why? There is no support for bluetooth in adalvik, but wifi should work | 10:52 |
| Pawky | because of some VERY SECRET REASON NOBODY WANTS TO TELL ME, alien dalviks network driver doesnt listen in upon 239.0.0.0 SPP /multicast stuff | 10:52 |
| Stskeeps | Pawky: it's not alien dalvik's | 10:52 |
| Pawky | so it will never find the camera... :-( | 10:53 |
| Stskeeps | it's our wlan driver | 10:53 |
| Pawky | but I have used perl in jolla to take pictures.. .jihaa | 10:53 |
| Pawky | Stskeeps: well... you mean its the OS? | 10:53 |
| Pawky | if anybody could shine some light here, I might get it to work fully | 10:53 |
| Stskeeps | https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2014-May/004160.html | 10:53 |
| Pawky | and that wold be SOOOO cool | 10:53 |
| Pawky | now.. thats an interesting link :-) | 10:54 |
| flux | so you can just set it at runtime? | 10:54 |
| flux | seems like a solved problem then :) | 10:54 |
| Pawky | hell yeah... first thing when getting back home.... after uprading my phone, reinstalling all software... yadayada | 10:55 |
| Pawky | thanks very much for that info :-) | 10:55 |
| Pawky | maybe we will have a solution for all you camera dwellers.... ;-) | 10:55 |
| inte | LOL:) Good to talk about hardware from time to time :) | 10:57 |
| inte | Pawky: let me know if it worked for you, then ill consider buying one of those cames as well | 10:57 |
| * inte going for lunch | 10:58 | |
| Pawky | would there be a way to set it automatically before an android ap is run? with the systemd service or something? | 11:00 |
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| Pawky | inte: I surely will... I also hope people or me will create a native app for it :-) | 11:00 |
| krnlyng | hi, i've sent an email to update9-opt-in@jolla.com yesterday but i still no notification to update has appeared, do non-first-ones have to wait longer? | 11:00 |
| tadzik | no | 11:00 |
| tadzik | I am The Last One and waited about 5 minutes | 11:01 |
| Nicd- | krnlyng: was it from the same email as your jolla account has? | 11:01 |
| Pawky | krnlyng: duh.. is the latest update an opt in? | 11:01 |
| Scelt | krnlyng: did you check update manually? | 11:02 |
| krnlyng | Nicd-: i am pretty sure | 11:02 |
| krnlyng | Scelt: via settings->system->sailfishos updates? then yes | 11:02 |
| Scelt | ye | 11:02 |
| krnlyng | Pawky: yep | 11:02 |
| Pawky | Why??? I want it. | 11:02 |
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| Scelt | Pawky: opt-in then https://together.jolla.com/question/59874/release-notes-opt-in-upgrade-to-software-version-11038-uitukka/ | 11:03 |
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| inte | isnt this a bit to far... http://gigjets.com/09/18548-jolla-sailfish-os-windows-phone/ :) | 11:04 |
| tadzik | Pawky: then opt in :P | 11:04 |
| krnlyng | Nicd-: is there a way to check my jolla acount email? | 11:05 |
| Pawky | just send a mail without writing anything? | 11:05 |
| tadzik | I think having an opt-in update to sailfish because it might be unstable is a bit like having a stable and a testing branch of debian gnu/hurd or something | 11:05 |
| Nicd- | krnlyng: go to account.jolla.com | 11:05 |
| Pawky | or do I have to write "pretty please"? :-) | 11:05 |
| tadzik | it's for early adopters and in constant development, the newer the better is almost always true | 11:05 |
| Nicd- | Pawky: write "Based Stskeeps" | 11:06 |
| Pawky | tadzik: I am an early adopter or sure.... right guys? ;-) | 11:06 |
| Nicd- | he will descend from the skies in a cloud, handing you the update | 11:06 |
| inte | tadzik: never change a running system SCNR | 11:06 |
| gexc | csslayer: any possibility for fcitx on jolla? | 11:06 |
| Pawky | inte: Nothing runs for long, without changes... | 11:06 |
| krnlyng | Nicd-: ok it was the wrong email... although i was pretty sure i used the other one... thanks :) | 11:07 |
| Pawky | Nicd-: your kidding... right? | 11:07 |
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| xfade_ | krnlyng: what is your jolla account name? | 11:08 |
| xfade_ | I can check if you like. | 11:08 |
| krnlyng | xfade_: krnlyng but thanks i already figured it out :) | 11:08 |
| cowboy | inte: it's pure speculation for now, but Jolla might announce Jolla2 at Slush next month | 11:09 |
| xfade_ | krnlyng: ah, yeah.. noticed ;) | 11:09 |
| tadzik | bwahaah, that gigjets link | 11:09 |
| tadzik | what a load of BS | 11:09 |
| krnlyng | so you're responsible for checking who emailed :D? if yes then sorry for the emails from my other email accounts :D | 11:10 |
| Pawky | duh... how come the indians only have to pay $170 for the phone?.... :-( | 11:10 |
| tadzik | regional pricing, duh | 11:10 |
| tadzik | it's not about how much it costs to make it, it's about how much you're willing to pay | 11:10 |
| Sail0r | hm wlan keeps crashing at work | 11:10 |
| Pawky | tadzik: can you send me 10 $10 a piece? :-) | 11:11 |
| xfade_ | krnlyng: script ;) | 11:11 |
| xfade_ | krnlyng: And it does not care, believe me. | 11:11 |
| tadzik | Pawky: no :P | 11:11 |
| Pawky | then there is an error in your saying | 11:11 |
| krnlyng | xfade_: thought so :) | 11:11 |
| tadzik | I fail to see any connection | 11:11 |
| inte | Pawky: sure wasnt so serious :) | 11:11 |
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| tadzik | if you're a company trying to determine a price for your product you're not thinking "hmm, let's take however much it costs us to produce it and add 20% for future investment" | 11:12 |
| Pawky | so, could buy them retail in india for $170 a piece, then reflash them if need be and sell it in the western world far cheaper than others? | 11:12 |
| Pawky | I am seeing profits to e made here... he he... | 11:12 |
| tadzik | you say "let's think how can we maximize the income based on how many people would buy it for price X" | 11:13 |
| tadzik | Pawky: I think you could, that's usually how trading works :D | 11:13 |
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| tadzik | I don't say I agree with it or that I'm satisfied with this situation, I'm just reconciled with my dissatisfaction about how business apparently works :P | 11:14 |
| tadzik | it's especially funny with digital distribution | 11:15 |
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| Sail0r | anyone resolved the 802.1x issues with the optin update? | 11:16 |
| cowboy | Pawky: yeah, too bad snapdeal doesn't ship outside India :( | 11:18 |
| chem|st | Pawky: problem is, different warranty, taxes, customer care requirements | 11:18 |
| gexc | is update 9 a rolling one? | 11:20 |
| Pawky | chem|st: are you giving the indians a lesser warranthy... are you treating them as secondary citizens? | 11:21 |
| xfade_ | gexc: no, you should get it about 20 minutes after your mail. | 11:21 |
| gexc | lol | 11:23 |
| gexc | I meant 'rolling update', my bad | 11:23 |
| chem|st | Pawky: legal rules, EU has a minimum 2-year guarantee, the 1-year warranty is untouched | 11:24 |
| Pawky | i believe thats all mumbo jumbo.... there is no reason why they would have less warranthy, unless they break phones more often... | 11:25 |
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| Pawky | but maybe this is rather a political discussion to be somewhere else ;-) | 11:26 |
| Pawky | To me, companies do this to be able to sell at different prices, with an excuse to do so... | 11:26 |
| Pawky | so everybody here in Europe thinks... aaahhh but we get more. | 11:26 |
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| Pawky | In the end most of us in here have probably already void our warrant by doing something.. so for us... give us cheaper phones please ;-D | 11:27 |
| Pawky | where is the null warrant version? :-P | 11:27 |
| tadzik | vote with your wallet and import it from india :) | 11:28 |
| Pawky | nah.. i am happily paying what I am paying... its just the thought of it.. | 11:28 |
| chem|st | Pawky: it is the difference in enacted law, EU has a minimum guarantee of 2 years, in india you get what the company tells you in a warranty sheet | 11:28 |
| Pawky | chem|st: true, but thats not a hinder for Jolla to give the same warranty anyway in India.. | 11:29 |
| chem|st | but they don't | 11:29 |
| Stskeeps | also, it's snapdeal selling, isn't it? | 11:29 |
| Pawky | because they use it as an excuse to sell the same harware cheaper.. | 11:29 |
| chem|st | jolla has a 1 year limited warranty statement | 11:29 |
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| chem|st | Stskeeps: does not matter | 11:30 |
| jonwil | stskeeps: ping | 11:30 |
| Tegu | ough, talking about warranty. should I send the phone to care due to a few stuck (green) pixels.. or is it a messy process? | 11:32 |
| chem|st | Pawky: the warranty statement stands for all customers, but some markets (like the EU) have regulations in place - guarantee law | 11:32 |
| ggabriel | Tegu: up to you really :) how many pixels out of interest? | 11:33 |
| Tegu | they're not very visible so it's not annoying. only visible in complete darkness with dark picture | 11:34 |
| tadzik | Tegu: iirc there's nothing messy about warranty service apart from being phoneless for a week or two | 11:34 |
| chem|st | tadzik: or 3 or 4 | 11:35 |
| tadzik | hah. Consider me discouraged :P | 11:35 |
| chem|st | my phone was lost and all for a sudden it appeared on my doorstep | 11:35 |
| Tegu | hm, or do they even take devices with stuck pixels? | 11:36 |
| tadzik | clearly some random person found it and being kind of heart brought it to you | 11:36 |
| chem|st | neither fedex nor care@jolla knew where my phone is at that time | 11:36 |
| tadzik | sounds like tons of sun | 11:37 |
| tadzik | fun* | 11:37 |
| ggabriel | it was the love for its owner that took it back to you, chem|st | 11:37 |
| chem|st | ;) | 11:37 |
| Pawky | tadzik: all well as long as those "tons of fun" isn't right on top of ones Jolla phone... ;-) | 11:39 |
| tadzik | heh | 11:39 |
| chem|st | iirc I sent it in on 15th got it sent back on 25th and it arrived on 23rd the next month | 11:41 |
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| Tegu | ggabriel: okay turned up the brightness and now they are more visible. there are about 6 of them and maybe a couple of more but darker. at the right hand side of the screen | 11:44 |
| ggabriel | well, ask jolla if they'd change it | 11:45 |
| ggabriel | and see if you can live without the device | 11:45 |
| ggabriel | but thanks for the info | 11:45 |
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| Pawky | ggabriel: more or less all companies have som kind of limit how many faulty pixel would be acceptable, but then again I have never ever heard someone who sent one in (notebooks, phones what have you) regardless of the amount of pixels, only to get it sent back with "sorry they are to few and to scattered"... a | 11:52 |
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| Pawky | they all got replaced | 11:52 |
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| ggabriel | Pawky: yup, normally 3 :) | 11:53 |
| Pawky | ggabriel: And whilst talking about EU law... within the first year, its the manufacturer who is to prove that you have broken a device or else they have to address the issue.. | 11:55 |
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| Pawky | I also highly doubt this "you void your warranty" warning actually holds in court... | 11:56 |
| Pawky | it didn't for apple.. | 11:57 |
| ggabriel | :) | 11:57 |
| ggabriel | i wasn't asking anyway | 11:57 |
| Pawky | ohh.. uh,.... addressed wrong person... O:-) | 11:58 |
| Pawky | well.. who asked will read.. | 11:58 |
| cowboy | nonetheless, if you go to court you're going to pay your lawyer more than you would pay for a new phone | 11:59 |
| ggabriel | small claims should be cheap | 12:00 |
| ggabriel | or free | 12:00 |
| joonahoi | if you win, usually the loser gets to pay for the lawyer fees | 12:01 |
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| r0kk3rz | yeah but you still need to have the cash for the lawyer up front | 12:28 |
| r0kk3rz | against a company with a lot more to lose than you do | 12:28 |
| r0kk3rz | the usual trick is to keep delaying and appealing until the individual runs out of money | 12:29 |
| Sail0r | does anyone have a working carddav setup? | 12:30 |
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| Sail0r | hmmm | 12:40 |
| Sail0r | it's half working now | 12:40 |
| Sail0r | ^^ | 12:40 |
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| Cazou | I don't really understand why both partitions 20 and 21 on the internal mmc (mmcblk0) are android bootimgs (kernel + ramdisk) with different cmdlines | 12:51 |
| Cazou | the first one doesn't have a root arg | 12:51 |
| Stskeeps | Cazou: recovery vs not..? | 12:51 |
| Stskeeps | recovery doesn't need a root arg | 12:51 |
| Stskeeps | out of curiousity, what are you trying to do? :) | 12:52 |
| Cazou | Stskeeps: I see :) hacking, "out of curiosity" as you say :) | 12:53 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, sure | 12:53 |
| Stskeeps | just don't screw up the recovery one | 12:53 |
| Stskeeps | anyhow, knowing more about what you're trying to do might help me do a better job at helping you | 12:54 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:54 |
| Cazou | yep, I'll try not to ! | 12:54 |
| Cazou | basically, understanding how a phone boots | 12:55 |
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| Cazou | later, maybe booting another from the external SD card | 12:55 |
| Stskeeps | Cazou: http://pastie.org/9670142 and you're in for some pain :P | 12:55 |
| Stskeeps | boot.img can root=/ from sd card, sure | 12:56 |
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| chem|st | what do I need to set to have carddav with owncloud working? | 12:58 |
| Cazou | Stskeeps: So far, i've been trying to overwrite boot.img through fastboot but with no luck :( | 12:59 |
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| Cazou | Stskeeps: thanks anyway, I'm supposed to be working on something else, i should get back to it :p | 13:03 |
| Sail0r | yay wlan finally working again after installing http://repo.merproject.org/obs/home:/csslayer:/branches:/home:/tbr:/sailfish/latest_armv7hl/armv7hl/connman-1.24+git46+master.394.1.ga5393b5-10.6.1.jolla.armv7hl.rpm | 13:08 |
| Sail0r | but I don't think this is a good solution at the end because it might break the next update _x | 13:08 |
| chem|st | Sail0r: wont break... | 13:09 |
| Sail0r | k | 13:10 |
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| gexc-phone | just updated... | 13:52 |
| gexc-phone | performance seems bad :-/ | 13:52 |
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| Stskeeps | give it a bit | 13:54 |
| Stskeeps | dexopt sec | 13:54 |
| Stskeeps | etc | 13:54 |
| xfade_ | gexc-phone: did you wait until android was done processing your apks? | 13:54 |
| gexc-phone | maybe not | 13:55 |
| gexc-phone | just fresh reboot | 13:55 |
| xfade_ | top will tell you | 13:55 |
| gexc-phone | okay | 13:55 |
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| sec | I am waiting till the general feedback is yelling *stable*, but god that changelog looks so awesome | 13:55 |
| xfade_ | But whenever alien gets updated, it needs to reindex the apks. | 13:55 |
| xfade_ | This can take quite a while if you have many. | 13:56 |
| ggabriel | it optimises the applications like windows vista | 13:56 |
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| gexc-phone | :-/ | 13:56 |
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| xfade_ | Anyway, it is a one time thing. After that it is done, it is all fine. | 13:59 |
| * gexc-phone forgot to disable patchmanager before updating | 13:59 | |
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| r0kk3rz | its stable for me, but YMMV | 14:04 |
| r0kk3rz | update 10 shouldnt be too far away and will fix whatever showstoppers exist | 14:04 |
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| pdanek | Biggest mobile satisfy and also biggest disappointment of the year? Choose please. :) | 14:08 |
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| ggabriel | i got discouraged re memory mgmt | 14:08 |
| ggabriel | as i use meerun a lot and it sucks a little bit at that :) | 14:08 |
| Sail0r | http://www.jollatides.com/2014/10/22/opt-in-now-for-update-9-uitukka/ | 14:08 |
| ggabriel | Sail0r: no, I won't :P | 14:08 |
| Sail0r | it's a warning about uitukka | 14:09 |
| Sail0r | ;) | 14:09 |
| ggabriel | yeah, just don't like those headings that want you to do something | 14:09 |
| r0kk3rz | probably talk to morpog and Nicd about memory issues | 14:09 |
| r0kk3rz | they had bad experience with tahkalampi as well | 14:09 |
| ggabriel | well, meerun is pretty much alpha atm | 14:10 |
| ggabriel | and i know i'll have to pay for it eventually | 14:10 |
| ggabriel | so i won't make too much noise, just deal with it | 14:10 |
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| ggabriel | but i won't update if i know that the problem is likely to exist on my device | 14:10 |
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| ggabriel | having said that, the changelog is tempting indeed | 14:11 |
| r0kk3rz | my point is they'll give you an idea of if its better or worse | 14:11 |
| r0kk3rz | even if not completely fixed | 14:11 |
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| pdanek | Did Finland itself make over 50% of total Jolla sales? | 14:14 |
| r0kk3rz | the big countries by download for SirenSong are finland and germany | 14:16 |
| r0kk3rz | at about equal portions each | 14:16 |
| r0kk3rz | as for absolute jolla sales, no idea I dont think jolla have released that | 14:17 |
| gexc-phone | better keyboard haptics in the update? | 14:17 |
| gexc-phone | or just my illusion | 14:17 |
| r0kk3rz | the vibe seems a little less strong | 14:17 |
| gexc-phone | seems snappier | 14:18 |
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| * gexc-phone feels it's stronger though | 14:20 | |
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| r0kk3rz | things are in general snappier | 14:20 |
| r0kk3rz | so i guess you may be right there | 14:21 |
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| pdanek1 | Qt was often considered less lightweight than GTK+. | 14:28 |
| pdanek1 | Is it still the case? | 14:28 |
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| pdanek1 | Or was it just an illusion caused by KDE vs Gnome, where Gnome has been usually faster? | 14:29 |
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| phdeswer | pdanek1: the only thing I remember was the license issues. And the eternal C vs C++ | 14:32 |
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| csslayer | pdanek1: usually the implementation of specific application matters much more than a toolkit. | 14:41 |
| r0kk3rz | pdanek1: is probably doesnt matter anymore as things have gotten faster | 14:43 |
| r0kk3rz | ram cheaper and more plentiful etc | 14:43 |
| pdanek1 | right | 14:45 |
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| TemeV | r0kk3rz: and software has become more bloat | 15:13 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah | 15:13 |
| r0kk3rz | generally | 15:13 |
| r0kk3rz | but the difference between qt and gtk is probably negligable | 15:13 |
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| r0kk3rz | unless one has had some epic bloat added to it over the years and one hasnt | 15:14 |
| TemeV | I've read a research that said software gets heavier way faster than hardware evolves | 15:14 |
| TemeV | Yeah, I guess toolkits haven't become heavier, so developmet in hardware makes differences irrelevant | 15:17 |
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| stephg | with u9 has anyone else lost their remorse timer in the notifications view? I've just been through the release notes and don't see it there | 15:43 |
| stephg | looks like a regression to me | 15:43 |
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| veskuh | stephg: It was done on purpose | 15:51 |
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| Morpog_PC | and I like it | 15:52 |
| stephg | fair enough | 15:52 |
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| r0kk3rz | i like it too | 15:55 |
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| pawky|2 | WTF?... you can not regreet the language you chose when booting the first time, you can only accept.... >:-( | 16:02 |
| pawky|2 | oh.... ehh... ok.. you pull the SAME direction to also deny your choice and choose another language.. duh... | 16:03 |
| pawky|2 | not to pedagogic in my opinion... | 16:04 |
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| coderus | pawky|2: many users cant even finish language selection. they think language is not selecting. :) | 16:11 |
| pawky|2 | coderus: there you are... dude.. thanks... it works :-) | 16:12 |
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| coderus | pawky|2: :) | 16:14 |
| coderus | Jolla look ^ this user successfully recovered device in recovery shell using dd | 16:14 |
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| pahartik | pawky|2: How did you initially end up in problem situation? | 16:31 |
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| pawky|2 | pahartik: well he he I wanted to move the android stuff to my 64GB super fast SD card.... which worked nicely, but after rebooting it went a bit sour... | 16:35 |
| pawky|2 | this mod relies on some systemd androidsdcard.service thingy to auto mount your partition before android uses it... I assume that one needs some mod.. | 16:36 |
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| pawky|2 | then i got lost in rescue modes, snapshots what have you... and when Jonni started to scare me with care@jolla for reflashing I went for a super reset :-) | 16:37 |
| pawky|2 | that was all good, until i realised i then had a 1.0.0.5 version which neither liked to be upgraded nor wanted to connect to the Jolla store... | 16:37 |
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| pawky|2 | then an angel came to my rescue and wispered a link to heaven.... | 16:38 |
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| pawky|2 | now I have 1.0.8.19 and its upgrading go 21.... | 16:38 |
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| pawky|2 | pahartik: oh.. the result was my phone started to "boot loop".... | 16:42 |
| pawky|2 | which made do the super reset.. | 16:42 |
| pawky|2 | Houston, we have a problem.... | 16:43 |
| pahartik | pawky|2: But you were prepared with images of block storage devices? | 16:43 |
| pawky|2 | yes :-) | 16:44 |
| pawky|2 | if understanding you correctly | 16:44 |
| pawky|2 | now after updating to 21... i can turn on the wifi, but I cannot choose the "connect to internet" bar... :-( | 16:45 |
| pawky|2 | It tells me network is not available please restart device... :'( | 16:45 |
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| pawky|2 | anyone having any ideas? | 16:46 |
| TMavica | balancing only can free some space from 12GB used, is it normal? | 16:48 |
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| pawky|2 | are you freezing me out now after doing my geheimliche upgrade? | 16:50 |
| pawky|2 | TMavica: well.. the image i burned was around 13.4 GB... so your not that far off ;-) | 16:50 |
| TMavica | lol.. | 16:51 |
| TMavica | only 9.13 free, cant free more. | 16:51 |
| pawky|2 | sooo no one has any clue what so ever to get the Wifi up and running? | 16:52 |
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| pawky|2 | I am alone.... | 16:54 |
| pawky|2 | ___/\_____/\___/\____/\_________ | 16:54 |
| pawky|2 | _______________________________________ | 16:54 |
| pawky|2 | heeeeeelp.... | 16:56 |
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| Yaniel | does 3g work at least? | 16:56 |
| pawky|2 | yes.. thankfully it does :-) | 16:56 |
| Yaniel | journalctl might tell something | 16:57 |
| Yaniel | could be the broken connman thing someone mentioned earlier today? | 16:57 |
| pawky|2 | I am all ears | 16:57 |
| Yaniel | didn't follow the discussion much | 16:59 |
| pawky|2 | :-( | 17:00 |
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| Yaniel | but it was more about u9 | 17:01 |
| pawky|2 | ohh.. | 17:01 |
| Yaniel | someone just mentioned connman used to be broken before too | 17:01 |
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| Aard | https://github.com/mer-packages/connman/commit/ad7e7d92eb8c262e0bead21a350d48111e8cb67b | 17:02 |
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| Aard | hopefully we'll have it out during tomorrow | 17:02 |
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| pawky|2 | Aard: does that count for 10.0.8.21? | 17:08 |
| pawky|2 | Aard: does that account for my issue.. i just booted up after the upgrade, I can turn the wifi on, but cannot choose connect to internet | 17:10 |
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| pawky|2 | I just don't get one thing... i have been installing and upgrading all from the first 1.0.0.5, now when installing the 10.0.8.19 it looks so much different... settings isn't where it used to be when sliding down, only silence phone is there.. | 17:15 |
| pawky|2 | how come? | 17:16 |
| pawky|2 | are these things just days old? | 17:16 |
| pawky|2 | the phone also feels much faster.. | 17:17 |
| coderus | pawky|2: /sbin/lsmod | grep wlan | 17:17 |
| coderus | ah, or you have available wlan list? | 17:18 |
| pawky|2 | not much there... | 17:18 |
| pawky|2 | ahhh.. ok.. | 17:18 |
| pawky|2 | or...well.. ok... whats the module name to be there? | 17:19 |
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| coderus | wlan 2592646 0 | 17:19 |
| coderus | cfg80211 144917 1 wlan | 17:19 |
| pawky|2 | actually there are no modules at all... | 17:19 |
| coderus | or similar | 17:19 |
| pawky|2 | there is nothing there. | 17:19 |
| pawky|2 | nada enchiladas.. | 17:19 |
| coderus | do /sbin/modprobe wlan | 17:19 |
| pawky|2 | empty as my head.... | 17:20 |
| pawky|2 | did that, but nope | 17:20 |
| coderus | do lsmod again | 17:20 |
| coderus | have module loaded? | 17:20 |
| pawky|2 | nothing.... | 17:20 |
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| pawky|2 | really, just doing lsmod wihtoug grep gives an empty result... | 17:21 |
| coderus | systemctl start wlan-module-load.service | 17:21 |
| pawky|2 | Job for wlan-module-load.service failed. See 'systemctl status wlan-module-load.service' and 'journalctl -xn' for details. | 17:22 |
| coderus | so, check the status | 17:22 |
| pawky|2 | i am... | 17:22 |
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| pawky|2 | Unit wlan-module-load.service entered failed state. | 17:23 |
| coderus | check journalctl | 17:23 |
| pawky|2 | wlan-module-load.service: main process exited, code=exited, status=1/FAILURE | 17:23 |
| pawky|2 | (this is an exceprt from it..) | 17:24 |
| coderus | pawky|2: and you had same issue before recovering device, right? | 17:25 |
| pawky|2 | duh... the modules are wrong.. | 17:25 |
| pawky|2 | look: | 17:25 |
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| pawky|2 | Linux Jolla 3.4.0.20131115.2 #1 SMP PREEMPT Mon Nov 18 03:00:49 UTC 2013 armv7l armv7l armv7l GNU/Linux | 17:25 |
| coderus | pastebin or similar | 17:25 |
| pawky|2 | drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 346 Sep 11 07:15 3.4.91.20140612.1 | 17:25 |
| pawky|2 | drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 12 Sep 11 07:15 3.4.0.20140304.1 | 17:25 |
| pawky|2 | thats under /lib/modules | 17:25 |
| pawky|2 | (yeah i could pastebin, but its only half a line long...) | 17:26 |
| coderus | ah | 17:26 |
| coderus | oh | 17:26 |
| coderus | modules! | 17:26 |
| pawky|2 | you see? | 17:26 |
| coderus | 3g working? | 17:26 |
| pawky|2 | yes :-) | 17:26 |
| pawky|2 | weird ha? | 17:27 |
| coderus | do zypper in -f kernel-adaptation-sbj kernel-headers | 17:27 |
| pawky|2 | zypper?... do we have opensuse now? | 17:27 |
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| AL13N | the packagekit implementation uses libzypper | 17:28 |
| pawky|2 | there is no zypper | 17:28 |
| coderus | pkcon install zypper if needed | 17:28 |
| pawky|2 | ok. | 17:28 |
| AL13N | if you need it you'll have to install it via pkcon | 17:28 |
| pawky|2 | me like zypper, me opensuse guy | 17:28 |
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| AL13N | coderus: can this command not be run in pkcon ? | 17:28 |
| coderus | pawky|2: just dont forget to clear /var/log/zypper.log, it may grow :) | 17:29 |
| pawky|2 | ok :-) | 17:29 |
| coderus | AL13N: yes, but zypper provide better information about process | 17:29 |
| pawky|2 | doing the zypper thing now | 17:29 |
| pawky|2 | i always hated pkcon search name | 17:29 |
| pawky|2 | wtf.. name? | 17:30 |
| pawky|2 | (things are coming in slowly but steadily..) | 17:30 |
| Aard | pawky|2: man alias | 17:30 |
| AL13N | well, packagekit is supposedly the packager that can be used in all distros and all backends | 17:30 |
| pawky|2 | Aard: LOL | 17:32 |
| pawky|2 | coderus: ok... stuff is installed | 17:32 |
| coderus | pawky|2: reboot now | 17:32 |
| pawky|2 | will do :-) | 17:32 |
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| pawky|2 | coderus: yipicayeeee m.... it works :-D | 17:34 |
| coderus | pawky|2: good | 17:35 |
| pawky|2 | does aptoid and yandex have everything thats on Google play? | 17:38 |
| coderus | pawky|2: no | 17:38 |
| pawky|2 | and there is still no one click get google play solution right? | 17:38 |
| coderus | use http://apps.evozi.com/apk-downloader/ for playstore | 17:39 |
| coderus | pawky|2: no click for google | 17:39 |
| pawky|2 | so far, my experience... its better to flash into a very recently version than upgrading from 1.0.0.5, its much more snappier and responsive... | 17:40 |
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| arisel | Ahoi! :) | 17:46 |
| arisel | Can anyone provide me with a btrfs-zero-log arm-binary? Might help me to recover my jolla.. :( | 17:47 |
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| coderus | pawky|2: its not flashing, its just restoring raw partition | 17:52 |
| TMavica | o, after reset, balance again and got more space | 17:52 |
| pawky|2 | TMavica: do it ten times and you will have 100% free space :-) | 17:53 |
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| TMavica | LOL | 17:54 |
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| TMavica | coderus: here? | 18:07 |
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| pawky|2 | coderus: could there be more stuff missing, like repos? | 18:17 |
| pawky|2 | wanted to install wget, but its not found even | 18:17 |
| TMavica | is there a site can get whatsapp sms code? | 18:17 |
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| pawky|2 | TMavica: most of them are usually banned... | 18:18 |
| TMavica | i cant get sms code and voice in mitakuuluu now | 18:20 |
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| pawky|2 | coderus: yeah your right, its not flashing... | 18:21 |
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| pawky|2 | installed wget from warehouse. Now wget complains about no libssl.so.1.0.0 | 18:28 |
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| pawky|2 | anyone having a clue what package might provide that one? | 18:29 |
| pawky|2 | I thought openssl.. but obviously not. | 18:29 |
| Scelt | how about libssl? | 18:30 |
| pawky|2 | didnt find it with zypper... | 18:30 |
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| Scelt | dunno about zypper | 18:30 |
| Scelt | http://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=libssl.so.1.0.0 | 18:30 |
| pawky|2 | well pkcon search name libbsl doesnt give any as well | 18:31 |
| meklu | maybe it's got a different version? | 18:31 |
| pawky|2 | meklu: how do you mean? | 18:32 |
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| meklu | hmm, probably not | 18:32 |
| meklu | like 0.9.8 or so | 18:32 |
| pawky|2 | meklu: no.. libssl.so.1.0.1h | 18:32 |
| pawky|2 | hmm.. maybe symlink to it? | 18:33 |
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| pawky|2 | meklu: yeah, fixed it with two symlinks :-) | 18:37 |
| cvp_ | hi :) | 18:39 |
| gogeta | who live in india here ? | 18:39 |
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| meklu | pawky|2: nice :) | 18:51 |
| cvp_ | is there a ready callrecorder rpm ? | 18:52 |
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| r0kk3rz | cvp_: not really | 18:58 |
| cvp_ | r0kk3rz, ok :( | 19:01 |
| r0kk3rz | there is a work in progress though | 19:02 |
| r0kk3rz | https://together.jolla.com/question/5008/call-recording-app/ | 19:02 |
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| r0kk3rz | not sure if its suitable for consumption or not | 19:03 |
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| gogeta | r0kk3rz, i think pulseaudio modules and conf is scaring thing | 19:04 |
| r0kk3rz | well without it pulseaudio doesnt get the farside call audio | 19:04 |
| r0kk3rz | so you can only get the local mic | 19:05 |
| r0kk3rz | that type of call recorder is available in the jolla store | 19:05 |
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| cvp_ | r0kk3rz, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1443362&postcount=364 | 19:12 |
| r0kk3rz | well there you go | 19:12 |
| cvp_ | but he dont try it, one from jolla do that | 19:13 |
| cvp_ | but i dont know how to build a rpm installer file | 19:13 |
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| r0kk3rz | sooner or later someone will put a compiled copy on openrepos | 19:14 |
| r0kk3rz | but if the main issue is solved in uitukka, then someone will finish it off | 19:15 |
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| Tegu | I'm currently trying to mess with pulseaudio.. I just don't understand enough.. https://together.jolla.com/question/59625/downmix-to-mono-with-headphones/ | 19:24 |
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| the_mgt | so how do I enable satellite mode in maps? | 19:45 |
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| cvp_ | Tegu, join #sailfishos maybe there can help you | 19:49 |
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| arisel | hmm.. is there a btrfs dump of the internal filesystem available? Mine crashed beyond rescue :( | 19:50 |
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| arisel | anyone with linux skills and willing to provide me with the jolla factory subvolumes here? | 20:06 |
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| Morpog_PC | arisel, ping coderus | 20:22 |
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| arisel | coderus: *ping* :) | 20:23 |
| arisel | Morpog_PC: ty :) | 20:23 |
| phlixi | Hi | 20:27 |
| pawky|2 | coderus: the "iwpriv wlan0 setMCBCFilter 1" doesn't make alien dalvik see multicast stuff... any other tip? :-) | 20:27 |
| phlixi | any ideas how i get a pdf from my jolla on to a nexus? | 20:27 |
| phlixi | ...without email :D | 20:27 |
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| pawky|2 | phlixi: bluetooth? | 20:28 |
| pawky|2 | I use it all the time... | 20:28 |
| phlixi | yeah, sounds good pawky|2: and how do i do that? | 20:28 |
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| pawky|2 | phlixi: this split second I have no pdf files or similar... its a super clean phone... | 20:28 |
| pawky|2 | but use the share thingy.. | 20:29 |
| pawky|2 | that share icon, and chose from there.. | 20:29 |
| phlixi | where am i supposed to look for that share button? | 20:29 |
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| sec | Pull down? | 20:30 |
| phlixi | from where? | 20:31 |
| phlixi | within filebrowser i can view hex, but not share ;) | 20:31 |
| sec | Lol. | 20:31 |
| phlixi | ok, never mind | 20:31 |
| phlixi | :) | 20:31 |
| phlixi | within "documents" :-) | 20:31 |
| sec | Sadly, I am in the same boat as pawky|2, super clean phone right now. | 20:31 |
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| pawky|2 | phlixi: or maybe file browser... share? | 20:32 |
| phlixi | this is where i looked at first, from file browser there is no "share", but from within "documents" there is share... | 20:33 |
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| pawky|2 | phlixi: then share using documents | 20:34 |
| phlixi | yep, already figured that out [2014-10-23 22:31:31] <phlixi> ok, never mind [2014-10-23 22:31:38] <phlixi> within "documents" :-) | 20:35 |
| phlixi | :) | 20:35 |
| phlixi | thanks pawky|2 | 20:35 |
| pawky|2 | phlixi: your welcome happy sailing | 20:35 |
| pawky|2 | anyone expert on iwpriv in here today? :-) | 20:35 |
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| phlixi | unfirtunately i even do not know what iwpriv might be... | 20:37 |
| phlixi | sorry | 20:37 |
| pawky|2 | phlixi: soon you will know... happy hacking ;-) | 20:37 |
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| phlixi | finally, pairing worked and file is transmitting, wow that is slow... | 20:39 |
| pawky|2 | phlixi: shouldnt be... | 20:39 |
| pawky|2 | maybe depending on the other phone. | 20:39 |
| phlixi | i dont mind, if it takes a minute to transfer 10mb.. i will be able to read the pdf tomorrow on the bus ;) | 20:39 |
| pawky|2 | phlixi: thats the spirit! I presume its the Jolla manual you are downloading ;-) | 20:40 |
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| phlixi | actually its something the channel might tell is straight from satan ;) | 20:40 |
| pawky|2 | phlixi: oh now... windows | 20:41 |
| phlixi | office open xml spreadsheetML documentation | 20:41 |
| phlixi | even worse^^ | 20:41 |
| pawky|2 | poor sod... | 20:41 |
| phlixi | but i have to admit, that the documentations is good (for my needs..) | 20:41 |
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| phlixi | already read a few pages on the jolla, but thats not exactly great to read pdfs on the jolla... tomorrow i will carry the tablet^^ | 20:43 |
| pawky|2 | phlixi: never touch windows things... | 20:43 |
| pawky|2 | just use libreoffice | 20:43 |
| phlixi | pawky|2: thats what i do for a living | 20:43 |
| pawky|2 | be free | 20:43 |
| phlixi | ...and thats the reason i have a jolla | 20:43 |
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| pawky|2 | phlixi: you can always stop... as I did.... turn your back to windows and be free and happy | 20:44 |
| pawky|2 | its scary, but doable... | 20:44 |
| phlixi | (and its predecessors) | 20:44 |
| pawky|2 | but shhhhh.. don't tell anyone else I was a Windows consultant in the old days... ;-) | 20:44 |
| phlixi | well, our product is a windows software, that would be the end of the busines to abandon windows | 20:45 |
| pawky|2 | sounds odd.. your a windows guy, thats why you use linux phones?... | 20:45 |
| phlixi | because od "<pawky|2> be free" not because of windows | 20:45 |
| phlixi | of* | 20:45 |
| sec | I happen to know a few people working on WinPhone who despise it. | 20:45 |
| pawky|2 | phlixi: on the contrary.. thats when things start working... on the other hand, consultants dont earn much of working software do they? | 20:46 |
| pawky|2 | if i will ever be a consultant again, i will of course choose windows and have lots of work ever after.. | 20:46 |
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| pawky|2 | and I love the simple solution to everything "try to reboot your machine" mohhahahahaha | 20:46 |
| pawky|2 | well.. maybe we got a bit off topic... | 20:47 |
| niuran | Simple and effective...sometimes | 20:47 |
| pawky|2 | niuran: ever wondered why? | 20:48 |
| phlixi | pawky|2: we do software and sell and support it. and the business runs windows and office... thats actually not a matter of debate... (ok, some potential clients would prefer web clients, but thats still not productive as native "apps") | 20:48 |
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| pawky|2 | phlixi: well, as you are selling support, of course windows is the preferd OS :-P | 20:48 |
| pawky|2 | muchos dinneros | 20:48 |
| niuran | dinero, in singular ;) | 20:49 |
| phlixi | i guess it is unprofessional if you do not sell support to your products if you are doing b2b | 20:49 |
| pawky|2 | I believe the worst thing I ever did when being a consultant, when a company wanted better security, was throwing out windows and put in linux everywhere... in 15 years, i have only had like 100 consultancy hours... :-( | 20:50 |
| phlixi | its just cheaper for the client to have a pro explaining everything to you then spending weeks to figure out for your self | 20:50 |
| pawky|2 | the shit just works... | 20:50 |
| pawky|2 | i believe its even less... than 100 | 20:50 |
| sec | <pawky|2> the shit just works... | 20:51 |
| sec | I disagree. A lot more things *just work*. | 20:51 |
| phlixi | ...and i hate it when the clients use windows on server side, because it just gives trouble (allthough its paid, of course) the ones running *nix servers i like more, there are fewer problems... i prefer to work on the software, than debugging windows crap^^ | 20:51 |
| stephg | sec: we all have to do things that we don't like doing | 20:51 |
| pawky|2 | phlixi: I believe professionality would be to make software intuitive and non buggy so nearly no support is needed... but that just me :-) | 20:51 |
| stephg | sec: pawky|2 you've both clearly never met 10gen then | 20:52 |
| * stephg jumps out the window | 20:52 | |
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| sec | Who's 10gen? | 20:52 |
| pawky|2 | stephg: nope.. who might that be? | 20:52 |
| sec | Sounds like an interesting fellow | 20:52 |
| arisel | pawky|2: noone wants to pay, specify or wait for actually good-working software.. | 20:52 |
| pawky|2 | or what | 20:52 |
| phlixi | pawky|2: that might be a thing for stuff you sell on an appstore for .79, but not for special software | 20:52 |
| stephg | just having a bad evening (and I'm fighting their software) | 20:52 |
| pawky|2 | stephg: need help? | 20:52 |
| stephg | (which I both don't want to be doing but must, and if their software were bug free I wouldn't be) | 20:52 |
| stephg | just struck a chord is all | 20:53 |
| pawky|2 | stephg: i know what you mean..... well windows is all good.... probably.... for some... :-) | 20:53 |
| stephg | :) | 20:53 |
| pawky|2 | 10gen... mongoDB? | 20:54 |
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| stephg | ohyeah | 20:54 |
| pawky|2 | :-) | 20:54 |
| sec | Despite the tons of examples and docs, mod_rewrite is voodoo. Damned cool voodoo, but still voodoo. -- Brian Moore (bem@news.cmc.net) | 20:55 |
| sec | That's from apache's official documentation on mod_rewrite. | 20:55 |
| phlixi | if someone claims that his software has no bug, its a scam, or super expensive proven stuff... in most cases both is not the right solution... | 20:55 |
| sec | ehe he he | 20:55 |
| pawky|2 | sec: just go for Jimi Hendrix.... Woodo Child.. and you will see the light... | 20:55 |
| pawky|2 | beer goes with it.. | 20:55 |
| pawky|2 | phlixi: well... just sell the bug as a feature... like Microsoft :-) | 20:56 |
| pawky|2 | they have no bugs, but tons of great features.. | 20:56 |
| pawky|2 | (I am still fishing for an iwpriv expert. Anyone around? :-) | 20:56 |
| stephg | s/beer/malbec/ and that's about right | 20:56 |
| pawky|2 | whats that? | 20:57 |
| stephg | red wine | 20:58 |
| stephg | :) | 20:58 |
| pawky|2 | oh, great idea | 20:58 |
| pawky|2 | phlixi: well, with open source and standard software you eliminate it as much as possible, you have hundreds of thousands if not millions of people checking the softy out and contributing, compared to Microsofts development team | 21:00 |
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| * stephg gives up | 21:02 | |
| stephg | right bed time, good night folks, see y'all in the morning | 21:02 |
| pawky|2 | stephg: how sad.. | 21:02 |
| pawky|2 | stephg: ahh.. just for the day.. thats the spirit! :-) | 21:02 |
| stephg | "exception: collection's metadata is undergoing changes. Please try again." | 21:03 |
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| stephg | ^^ time to call it a night :) | 21:03 |
| pawky|2 | stephg: i presume iwpriv isnt your coup of tea right? | 21:03 |
| stephg | sadly no | 21:03 |
| pawky|2 | seems to be no ones... | 21:03 |
| pawky|2 | well... i will continue to fish... | 21:03 |
| stephg | pawky|2: what are yoyu trying to do | 21:03 |
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| pawky|2 | getting the phone to accept multicast inbound | 21:04 |
| stephg | oh | 21:04 |
| stephg | also, ow | 21:04 |
| stephg | all the kernel support is there? | 21:04 |
| pawky|2 | so I have been told... | 21:05 |
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| pawky|2 | i got this setMCBCFilter 1 | 21:05 |
| * stephg runs to google | 21:05 | |
| pawky|2 | but that didnt do the trick :-( | 21:05 |
| pawky|2 | been there done that ;-) | 21:05 |
| stephg | well the first result is a SailfishDevel mail which I'm guessing is you, so clearly not ;) | 21:06 |
| stephg | did it not do the trick in a helpful way? | 21:06 |
| pawky|2 | nope... I have just downloaded wireshark to have a look... | 21:06 |
| stephg | no errors tho? no nothing? | 21:06 |
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| pawky|2 | nope... i mean i can set the flag.... but the app doesnt receive any multicast or SPP messages | 21:07 |
| stephg | well wireshark or tcpdump is the next step | 21:08 |
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| stephg | see if they're actually hitting the interface | 21:08 |
| pawky|2 | SSP... | 21:08 |
| stephg | if they're not... well then you have a bunch of work to do :( | 21:08 |
| pawky|2 | i think they did... | 21:08 |
| stephg | tcpdump iirc is in mer-tools | 21:08 |
| pawky|2 | I am setting this up now to have another llook | 21:08 |
| pawky|2 | well.. where is the tcpdump, couldnt find it with pkcon or warehouse | 21:09 |
| stephg | no need for wireshark (which last time I installed it depended on openssl and then broke my dev mode) | 21:09 |
| stephg | do you have mer-tools enabled | 21:09 |
| pawky|2 | obviously not... is that under development? | 21:09 |
| pawky|2 | was quite a while sinse last time.. | 21:09 |
| stephg | ssu ar mer-tools && ssu ur && pkcon refresh && pkcon install tcpdump | 21:10 |
| stephg | mer-tools is where strace, gdb, tcpdump etc. are | 21:10 |
| pawky|2 | :-) | 21:10 |
| pawky|2 | it does some refreshing now | 21:10 |
| stephg | :) | 21:10 |
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| pawky|2 | maybe one should super reset once phone a bit more often just to keep the skills ;-) | 21:11 |
| stephg | anyway, much much better to take a tcpdump of the whole lot to, say, your sdcard then look at it with wireshark on a computer | 21:11 |
| stephg | hehe | 21:11 |
| stephg | anyway | 21:11 |
| stephg | I really do run. good luck and see you in the morning | 21:11 |
| pawky|2 | phlixi: sorry for ranting against windows by the way... | 21:11 |
| phlixi | no problem | 21:11 |
| pawky|2 | stephg: yeah thanks | 21:12 |
| pawky|2 | phlixi: whats the software doing? :-) | 21:12 |
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| phlixi | i do not find windows sympatic, neither microsoft. but i come over the point to admit (years ago...) that they make actually good software and there is (at least at the moment) no way to ignore them when doing business in our segment | 21:13 |
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| pawky|2 | phlixi: you are right, to be honest.... "the more people complain about OSes or Softwares, the less they usually know about it" The more you get to know, the more you respect it, and understand it and the people working with it | 21:14 |
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| pawky|2 | phlixi: so I was being a dork in a way.phlixi: .. | 21:15 |
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| pawky|2 | I still think its fun though that the solution to all problems is "reboot" i here it every day every time ;-) | 21:16 |
| phlixi | actually i reboot my clients only after patchdays sometimes, other than that there is not much rebooting | 21:17 |
| pawky|2 | phlixi: :-) | 21:17 |
| phlixi | but i will rant and curse a lot tomorrow in the office once i will actually try to write xlsx (or rather xlsm) files with embedded vba | 21:18 |
| pawky|2 | for those who might know about Jolla and ssdp... wlan0 at least sees the packages "23:17:55.783598 IP 10.0.0.1.64321 > 239.255.255.250.ssdp: UDP, length 454" now how do I get an android app to see it? | 21:19 |
| pawky|2 | phlixi: sounds complex... | 21:19 |
| pawky|2 | Its at these times it feels nice and safe to have a tiny linux machine in your pocket... just in case... ;-) | 21:19 |
| phlixi | dont know, i will see into the documentation tomrrow, but all i found so far are libraries to write xls[xm], but none of them can embedd vba, and only a few charts... a lot have even truble to put in formatted text... in the end i fear we will have to write it by hand... | 21:21 |
| pawky|2 | perl is your friend :-D | 21:21 |
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| phlixi | never tried to do something in pearl from delphi, actually, do not remeber doing something in perl at all^^ | 21:22 |
| pawky|2 | phlixi: use the force luke.... turn to the dark side.... | 21:23 |
| phlixi | i am pretty deep into the dark side i think^^ | 21:23 |
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| pawky|2 | LOL | 21:23 |
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| phlixi | indeed, looks promising http://search.cpan.org/~jmcnamara/Excel-Writer-XLSX/lib/Excel/Writer/XLSX/Examples.pm#Example:_macros.pl ;) | 21:25 |
| pawky|2 | I told you soo... | 21:26 |
| phlixi | we will see... not the right time to do work now :D | 21:26 |
| pawky|2 | :-) | 21:26 |
| phlixi | i would prefer doing this native in delphi^^ | 21:26 |
| pawky|2 | perl can solve your problems... perl will solve aaaaall your problems | 21:26 |
| phlixi | to harden my bad image, i solve a lot problems in php :D | 21:27 |
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| pawky|2 | half way there then :-) | 21:28 |
| pawky|2 | in perl you become the bug.... ;-) | 21:28 |
| pawky|2 | if you do it wrong, the sfotware will do weird stuff.. if right... it just works | 21:28 |
| sec | Perl: Where people faceplant their keyboards to write code. | 21:29 |
| phlixi | that: https://jeena.net/images/2012/php-the-good-parts.jpeg is 1.) true and 2.) actually important... :-) you can install your software everywhere ;) | 21:29 |
| pawky|2 | LOL | 21:29 |
| pawky|2 | like perl... :-) | 21:30 |
| pawky|2 | you have perl in your jolla... | 21:30 |
| pawky|2 | you could probably solve your current problem on the phone ;-) | 21:30 |
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| phlixi | every f*cking cheap webspace offers php... | 21:31 |
| pawky|2 | Even Catalyst is ported to Jolla | 21:31 |
| pawky|2 | and perl as well... | 21:31 |
| pawky|2 | never heard any who don't | 21:31 |
| phlixi | naaa | 21:31 |
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| sec | Who the hell gets web *hosting* instead of a cheap vps these days? | 21:32 |
| phlixi | for example people who do not want to take care of the servers | 21:33 |
| * sec hands out knives to everyone | 21:33 | |
| phlixi | alrady patched poodle? | 21:33 |
| sec | As soon as you see one, you know what to do | 21:33 |
| phlixi | its nice to know that there are people 265/24 monitoring that shit | 21:33 |
| phlixi | 365 :D | 21:33 |
| phlixi | (i hope^^) | 21:34 |
| * pawky|2 who thought we couldn't get more of topic... | 21:34 | |
| phlixi | its still about something computery stuff... | 21:34 |
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| phlixi | but we could stop here and ask as last line if someone knows somethig about iwpriv, thus maybe someone disrupting the idling actually knows something about iwpriv | 21:36 |
| phlixi | someone knows something about iwpriv? | 21:36 |
| phlixi | :D | 21:36 |
| phlixi | gn8 ;) | 21:36 |
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| pawky|2 | LOL | 21:39 |
| pawky|2 | "come fishy fishy..... here little fishy".... no luck fishing today... :-( | 21:40 |
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| pawky|2 | anyone knowing why I cannot modify the setMCBCFilter? no matter what i set it to, its always 1 :-( | 21:41 |
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| arisel | pawky|2: i could maybe elp if my phone would be working, but I'm still lacking my root filesystem :) | 21:42 |
| arisel | pawky|2: so no debuggin on the device here :( | 21:42 |
| pawky|2 | arisel: how come? | 21:42 |
| pawky|2 | how did you loose your root system? | 21:43 |
| arisel | pawky|2: btrfs just crashed. With no chance to recover.. | 21:43 |
| pawky|2 | huh.. :-( | 21:43 |
| arisel | pawky|2: *nods* | 21:43 |
| pawky|2 | so.. have you done a super reset like me? | 21:43 |
| pawky|2 | if you need to, I would skip using the one on the phone and go directly for the mmcblk0p28 that has 10.0.8.19 | 21:44 |
| arisel | pawky|2: it's crashed above that. the factory reset copys from one btrfs subvolume to another, the whole filesystem which is on mmcblk0p28 is totally broken. | 21:44 |
| pawky|2 | arisel: you can just write it over... like i did today | 21:45 |
| pawky|2 | with a fresh one.. | 21:45 |
| arisel | pawky|2: i'm just missing a fresh one. | 21:45 |
| arisel | pawky|2: do you have one? | 21:45 |
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