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| coderus | music to everyone: http://music.yandex.ru/#!/track/10647156/album/1153286 | 02:20 |
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| coderus | if anyone can't listen from yandex: http://cs5060.vk.me/u37878404/audios/9634ca3e04fc.mp3?extra=KvMZcqfyeXyvPjft2eTpssCq-sj9hNimhMU5vYiToHfEVfT0KMLcx_mph0s1DH2fQ45PH0-B1FOvDDqJDJHbHtwYhe33V8w | 05:00 |
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| Venemo | good morning :) | 06:16 |
| pawky_1 | morning | 06:17 |
| pawky_1 | I really hope someone makes it possible to write gui stuff using perl... | 06:20 |
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| Venemo | perl??? | 06:57 |
| Stskeeps | morn Venemo | 06:57 |
| Venemo | hey Stskeeps :) what's up? | 06:58 |
| Stskeeps | not much | 06:58 |
| pp | there are probably tk bindings for perl :D | 06:58 |
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| pp | ... tho probably no way to get that to output to wayland :) | 06:59 |
| Nicd- | that's like wanting a PHP GUI toolkit (those exist...) | 06:59 |
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| pp | https://metacpan.org/pod/WL egad! | 07:00 |
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| Nicd- | https://github.com/vjandrea/php-qt ;) | 07:02 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: exams over yet? | 07:02 |
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| Stskeeps | and morn to faenil too | 07:05 |
| faenil | Stskeeps, o/ morning | 07:05 |
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| rZr | hi Stskeeps , care sent me a return receipt that's a nice service | 07:07 |
| rZr | bbl | 07:07 |
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| coderus | use webview and make interface in html :) | 07:24 |
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| pawky_1 | coderus: was thinking about it... :-) | 07:25 |
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| Venemo | Stskeeps: yeah! over! :) | 07:57 |
| Venemo | pawky_1: all you need is some QML knowledge. QML is quite easy to learn :) | 07:58 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: woo | 07:58 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: I got a '5' (best grade) in math | 07:58 |
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| stephg | congrats | 07:58 |
| Stskeeps | congrats | 07:58 |
| faenil | Venemo, wohoo :) | 07:58 |
| Venemo | thanks | 07:59 |
| Venemo | I now have a bunch of "I'll do that in the summer" things to take care of :P | 07:59 |
| Stskeeps | how long summer hols there? | 08:00 |
| Venemo | next semester begins in september | 08:01 |
| Stskeeps | not bad | 08:01 |
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| Venemo | so it's ~2 months | 08:02 |
| faenil | that's so cool | 08:03 |
| faenil | gah, I won't go over this discussion again :D | 08:03 |
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| Venemo | faenil: meaning your august exams? | 08:06 |
| faenil | well exams here finish at end of july | 08:06 |
| faenil | and you have other exams in sept | 08:06 |
| faenil | so, summer is 1month, and since there are exams in sept, you have to study in august | 08:06 |
| faenil | unless you're so cool you finished all the exams in july | 08:07 |
| faenil | so, yeah......"SUMMER" | 08:07 |
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| Venemo | faenil: you are awesome :) | 08:11 |
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| faenil | Venemo, I'd be awesome if I had finished exams in July all years :D | 08:11 |
| stephg | ick even the thought of sitting an exam again gives me the shivers | 08:11 |
| faenil | stephg, hehe | 08:12 |
| faenil | Venemo, so, what will you be working on :) no-sql db? :) | 08:12 |
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| Venemo | faenil: that too, and fix some bug reports in node-lmdb, and finish some work on clean-css and in the meantime, I'll also check out what's up with glacier nowadays | 08:21 |
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| Venemo | faenil: wazd and myself also have a little project together | 08:21 |
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| Venemo | so | 08:21 |
| Venemo | I won't be bored :) | 08:21 |
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| faenil | Venemo, :) | 08:27 |
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| pawky | Venemo: I was watching some QML youtube intro.. and fell a sleep half ways... is really QML enough or do I also have to start using C++? | 09:47 |
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| coderus | pawky: enough for what purpose? | 09:50 |
| pawky | coderus: well, Venemo didn't specify this... in my case, I need to be able to communicate with a server using JSON, be able to show pictures and movies etc... | 09:51 |
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| chriadam | pawky: all of those things can be done in pure QML/JS | 09:52 |
| chriadam | XmlHttpRequest for the requests to the server, JSON.parse etc to parse the response, Image {} elements and Video {} elements to display the content. Although if you plan on storing them to disk, you'll need C++. | 09:53 |
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| goroboro | or you can use Python | 10:07 |
| goroboro | see thomas perl's http://thp.io/2011/pyotherside/ | 10:09 |
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| goroboro | I wrote an app to interface with a tvheadend server using QML/JS... it works pretty well, except that playing video is a bit touch and go... I believe this may be due to the version of gstreamer that is currently used on sailfishOS | 10:13 |
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| goroboro | also... I haven't been following too closely, but last I checked if you import the sailfish media library you don't qualify for harbour | 10:14 |
| goroboro | just things to keep in mind if you are developing an app that plays movies | 10:14 |
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| chem|st | fedex is weird... first I get emails, then I get SMS... but not both | 10:39 |
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| pawky | chem|st: maybe the E-mails are fake? :-D | 10:54 |
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| AL13N_work | lots of those going around | 10:55 |
| AL13N_work | damn, fedex will take 4 days to get to jolla, should arrive only friday | 10:57 |
| chem|st | pawky: the sms maybe | 10:57 |
| chem|st | AL13N_work: I know about that... I am waiting for the return now | 10:58 |
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| AL13N_work | i didn't know, i'm still awaiting the send to jolla | 10:59 |
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| chem|st | 'delivery' | 11:00 |
| AL13N_work | mine should reach jolla friday, hopefully they can fix it quick, so that i can have it back before i go on holidays | 11:00 |
| chem|st | mine was stuck at an airport for 2 days | 11:00 |
| AL13N_work | no fun | 11:00 |
| Stskeeps | better than taking a detour past china, like khertan's | 11:00 |
| chem|st | AL13N_work: what is wrong with yours and which batch is it? | 11:00 |
| AL13N_work | eek | 11:00 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: wtf how did that happen? | 11:01 |
| javispedro | hah | 11:01 |
| pawky | do we have batch problems with the jollas? | 11:01 |
| javispedro | that was funny | 11:01 |
| AL13N_work | mine is from november, i think; and sim card holder fix + random shutdown fix + hopefully the wlan packetloss fix | 11:01 |
| Stskeeps | chem|st: i don't know how the hell, but fedex indeed sent it past china | 11:01 |
| chem|st | pawky: that is to be found out | 11:01 |
| pawky | yeah.. | 11:01 |
| AL13N_work | Stskeeps: that sucks | 11:01 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: interesting | 11:01 |
| Stskeeps | i'm presuming 'somebody forgot to load it off the plane' | 11:01 |
| chem|st | mine probably past through sweden for some reason | 11:01 |
| pawky | probably NSA | 11:01 |
| AL13N_work | haha | 11:02 |
| pawky | its the hub for skandinavia... Sweden | 11:02 |
| pawky | and Finland is, kind of Scandinavia | 11:02 |
| chem|st | pawky: I do not remember it being shipped through sweden | 11:02 |
| AL13N_work | yeah, my buddy who goes to fosdem every year, goes via sweden always | 11:02 |
| chem|st | AL13N_work: so even people need to go through sweden^^ | 11:02 |
| AL13N_work | though when returning to finland, he always gets delayed for 1 day | 11:02 |
| pawky | chem|st: well, mine was even better... it was to go to stockholm, and went. Helsinki, Stockholm, France, Stockholm :-D | 11:03 |
| javispedro | they probably even paid chinese import taxes on their little adventure | 11:03 |
| javispedro | at least tracking showed it moved inside china | 11:03 |
| pawky | as the Europe hub is in Charles du Gol. | 11:03 |
| AL13N_work | but he's always compensated by a free stay in the hotel where all the pilots go | 11:03 |
| chem|st | pawky: oh nice, they indeed forget packages on planes^^ | 11:03 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: maybe Jolla should consider to use another shipping service | 11:03 |
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| AL13N_work | mine went from .be by truck to Koëln germany | 11:04 |
| AL13N_work | i presume it goes on plane from there to sweden or finland | 11:04 |
| chem|st | AL13N_work: yeah mine was sitting in köln for 2 days | 11:04 |
| Aard | chem|st: all shipping services suck | 11:04 |
| AL13N_work | ugh, i hope not | 11:04 |
| AL13N_work | Aard++ | 11:05 |
| Aard | which is quite impressive, given that delivering parcels should be one of their core competencies | 11:05 |
| AL13N_work | hehe | 11:05 |
| chem|st | Aard: I consider DHL express (note that is not DHL)and UPS save | 11:05 |
| chem|st | Aard: lol | 11:05 |
| AL13N_work | my wife considers fedex, cause it's the only thing that gets stuff to US | 11:05 |
| AL13N_work | especially, if it's biological stuff | 11:05 |
| AL13N_work | though they never mark it as such, they always mark it as tech | 11:06 |
| AL13N_work | even though it's shipped in dry ice :-) | 11:06 |
| AL13N_work | it's pretty difficult to get cancer-cells shipped to US | 11:06 |
| peppelakappa | here in italy is pretty difficult to get anything shipped to... italy | 11:07 |
| AL13N_work | really? | 11:07 |
| chem|st | sledges: what is this about? https://together.jolla.com/question/47687/charge-via-toh-since-update-10716-fails/ | 11:07 |
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| covox | chem|st: UPS isn't safe :P | 11:07 |
| covox | at least in australia | 11:07 |
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| peppelakappa | AL13N_work: yes, only fedex, tnt and dhl are trustable | 11:08 |
| AL13N_work | i don't think any of them are trustable | 11:08 |
| peppelakappa | trustable = ship packages to correct location ;) | 11:08 |
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| AL13N_work | as Aard said, they all suck, you just are in luck, or you aren't | 11:09 |
| chem|st | covox: aussi is off limits for me, I do US,CA,EU with DHL Express and UPS, never had issues in 8 years now | 11:09 |
| covox | one time I got delivered the wrong package, was offered a racist excuse about the delivery driver by the phone operator, accused of hiding the package instead of giving it to another delivery guy, and eventually got the correct package drop-kicked onto my front lawn by the original deliveryman | 11:09 |
| AL13N_work | you know what freaked me, i wanted to send money to AUS, and i really had to go through a bunch of hoops in getting that done | 11:09 |
| chem|st | I even get my UPS packages delivered to my office address when delivery address is my home address when I am not available at home | 11:09 |
| chem|st | AL13N_work: send bitcoin | 11:10 |
| Aard | chem|st: DHL is what I prefer here in finland, but they suck in many other countries | 11:10 |
| AL13N_work | this was a time when there was no bitcoin yet | 11:10 |
| Aard | ups route for a parcel russia-finland is something like russia-sweden-denmark-germany-denmark-sweden-denmark-sweden-finland | 11:10 |
| AL13N_work | damn, we really need a unicode for *fingers crossed* | 11:11 |
| AL13N_work | Aard: lol | 11:11 |
| chem|st | DHL marked a package delivered, to a wrong address and claimed it was right to do, it wasn't even delivered to the wrong address... it was sitting in their office waiting to get picked up by me or sent back... | 11:11 |
| peppelakappa | Aard: maybe they wanted to be sure that sweden and denmark weren't the right delivery place lol | 11:11 |
| AL13N_work | we've had packages not arriving, and when asked they told us it was picked up and signed off | 11:12 |
| chem|st | so plain DHL is only trustworthy on xmas, they even deliver on sundays before xmas | 11:12 |
| Aard | chem|st: DPD is the most fucked up here in finland. the claim two delivery attempts without even trying, an then don't bother notifying you. so unless you expecte a parcel and go asking them you'll never know there's one sitting there for you | 11:12 |
| peppelakappa | regarding wrong deliveries http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/24sdzp/i_think_i_just_got_a_drone_in_the_mail/ | 11:12 |
| AL13N_work | lol | 11:13 |
| chem|st | Aard: yeah DPD and GP are pretty annoying, I worked at a GP center once, updating address databases next to a "lost packages tracking" guy, you don't want to know what a single station can loose on a days work... | 11:14 |
| AL13N_work | peppelakappa: that's a real good one | 11:15 |
| chem|st | peppelakappa: I'd love those | 11:15 |
| Aard | chem|st: I'm carefully avoiding ordering stuff from shops sending by dpd nowadays. lost money that way by dpd claiming they delivered | 11:15 |
| AL13N_work | peppelakappa: plz return to: Aircraft operation center | 11:15 |
| AL13N_work | hmm | 11:15 |
| AL13N_work | send it back with a bomb | 11:15 |
| peppelakappa | yes... return lol | 11:15 |
| AL13N_work | maybe you can fly it to them | 11:15 |
| AL13N_work | though the range will probably be insufficient | 11:16 |
| peppelakappa | if you read the thread there was someone who sait that if something arrives in your inbox automagically becomes yours | 11:16 |
| peppelakappa | (in US) | 11:16 |
| AL13N_work | lol | 11:16 |
| chem|st | anyone familiar with fedex? I got a number that is not working on the general page and the page I should use needs login... | 11:18 |
| peppelakappa | your tracking number will be activated soon | 11:18 |
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| chem|st | and there is no number shown, it shows FedEx as number | 11:20 |
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| chem|st | ah no there is something wrong with that sms... the page does not exist... | 11:21 |
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| chem|st | the url is the original fedex.com | 11:22 |
| chem|st | the site exists in other languages but not in german^^ | 11:22 |
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| javispedro | peppelakappa: lol | 11:28 |
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| javispedro | probably someone wants to save fuel by adding more expense to already budget-starved mail | 11:29 |
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| * javispedro ponders if the qt5.3 migration will also require w00t to pull another overnighter :) | 11:32 | |
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| javispedro | I hope it's somewhat simpler without so many scenegraph changes | 11:36 |
| w00t | javispedro: the overnight part was making sure everything built so i didn't disrupt others :p | 11:37 |
| w00t | i have some hope that future jumps will be less painful. but the js engine in qtqml is still going through a lot of change, which makes it non-zero effort | 11:38 |
| javispedro | oh well | 11:41 |
| javispedro | (above is a nice counterpoint if you're a Gtk+ guy and thinking "oh damn, keeping up with Gtk+ 3.1x is so hard, I'll switch to Qt which at least respects ABI promises..." :) ) | 11:42 |
| w00t | javispedro: for simpler things, it isn't too bad | 11:42 |
| sharpneli | "I'll switch to Qt which at least respects ABI promises..." :D | 11:43 |
| w00t | we're a rather strenuous testcase, simply thanks to the gigantic pile of code we have using it | 11:43 |
| sharpneli | I sincerely hope it's better nowadays than it used to be. Back in 4.sumthin days a minor version change required total rebuild of everything due to C++ templates. | 11:43 |
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| javispedro | meh, don't blame the language, Gtk+ manages to break ABI a lot [1] even without C++ at all :) | 11:45 |
| javispedro | [1] http://blogs.gnome.org/mortenw/2014/06/23/how-does-one-create-a-gtk-application/ | 11:45 |
| sharpneli | That kinda sounds like he's talking about API compatibility if a fix on the source fixes it instead of mere recompilation | 11:47 |
| w00t | sharpneli: *if* that happened, then you hit a bug, and you should have made a lot of noise about it. i never saw such a problem. | 11:47 |
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| w00t | something compiled with 4.x should work with 4.x and any minor (or patch release) above x, same for 54 | 11:48 |
| w00t | *5 | 11:48 |
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| javispedro | sharpneli: you are right. he's also right though as ABI > API :) | 11:48 |
| sletta | It should be said that we’ve been relying a bit on internal API as well.. That is has been the biggest issue in upgrading | 11:48 |
| w00t | (if you're interested in the rules for keeping such compatibility, see http://techbase.kde.org/Policies/Binary_Compatibility_Issues_With_C++ :p) | 11:50 |
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| chem|st | those people... calling Harmattan more consistent than Sailfish... is being constantly inconsistent a new consistency? | 12:08 |
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| aupo | It's sort of a type of post-post-modern consistency, yes. | 12:12 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: those people in tjc? | 12:12 |
| ggabriel | time for a yoda user? | 12:12 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: yes | 12:13 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: yes | 12:14 |
| ggabriel | it'd be banned tho | 12:14 |
| ggabriel | because it'll be seen as taking the piss | 12:14 |
| ggabriel | but yeah, people have to unlearn what they know | 12:14 |
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| ggabriel | embrace change and all that | 12:14 |
| AL13N_work | heh | 12:14 |
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| ggabriel | this one guy wanted to change the push swipe because he got used to the iphone | 12:14 |
| ggabriel | wtf, honestly, the iphone's gesture is an inconsistent hack | 12:15 |
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| chem|st | all those guys who want to redesign the UI to fit their Harmattan idea... they don't get that their "everything is a swype away" idea never got delivered to N9s, Sailfish otoh did deliver! | 12:16 |
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| ggabriel | agree, harmattan was a starting point, and an unchallenged one until sailfish for that matter | 12:16 |
| ggabriel | inb4 sailfish isn't 100% a swipe away :) | 12:17 |
| ggabriel | there are buttons here and there | 12:17 |
| chem|st | I can go to any of the main pages/screens without even looking at the phone, on any jolla | 12:17 |
| ggabriel | well, if you're in a zoomed in email, you can't go back until you unzoom | 12:18 |
| ggabriel | tidings is a bit better, altho hacky, in the sense that you can go back with the pulley menu | 12:18 |
| chem|st | I currently use my N9 again and it is pretty painful to unlock and be in the msg-app then I close that an be on the notifications, plainly cause I opened a notification and did not close the darn app again... | 12:18 |
| ggabriel | lol, happened to me, yeah | 12:18 |
| ggabriel | maybe you're a quick learner | 12:19 |
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| ggabriel | but sailfish is easier than harmattan is easier than ios is easier than android | 12:19 |
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| Stskeeps | next up we just have to touch a screenless button and it does what we want | 12:19 |
| ggabriel | i vote for neural laces | 12:20 |
| chem|st | I used it for 2 years so yes I adapt to its flaws again but I really mis to pull the phone out of my pocket and be on the launcher before I even see the display properly | 12:20 |
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| ggabriel | chem|st: no lock code i assume | 12:20 |
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| chem|st | ggabriel: if I do not mistype blindly... | 12:21 |
| ggabriel | :P | 12:21 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: sometimes I get a wrong input instead of launcher^^ | 12:21 |
| chem|st | and I need to set a better code... having a 1 in it isn't very good for single handed input | 12:21 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: ? | 12:22 |
| Stskeeps | uh? | 12:22 |
| chem|st | screenless button? | 12:22 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 12:22 |
| Stskeeps | as a illustration of 'everything much simplified' | 12:22 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: and btw who do I need to shoot for the one android-app per window thing? | 12:23 |
| ggabriel | google? | 12:23 |
| Stskeeps | chem|st: isn't it a bit early to shoot people before you have it? :P | 12:24 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: I mean the other way round, it is said to be in one of the coming upgrades... | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | try it out, then you can go on a murderous rampage | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:24 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: I want to shoot before I have it, that is the point in shooting! | 12:24 |
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| chem|st | Stskeeps: what are we doing with the backbutton then? the other one isn't needed so it is wasiting screenestate for a backbutton | 12:25 |
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| Stskeeps | chem|st: okay, so, i'm not a UX guy.. :P | 12:26 |
| Nicd- | the apps use the back button inside them too... | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | i make things that you can get pissed about in 12-18 months :P | 12:26 |
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| chem|st | Stskeeps: I know, I am asking more generally, have any good idea for how to get rid of it? | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | you need the back button as part of android interaction in general, AFAIK | 12:27 |
| faenil | Stskeeps, lol | 12:27 |
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| chem|st | Stskeeps: yes you do, the back button is one of the most used features in android! | 12:27 |
| ggabriel | yup, "apps" use the back button within them | 12:27 |
| chem|st | you cannot even close an app without goig back through the hundred pages... and don't say use the task-manager as that one does not show the app you are currently using! | 12:28 |
| ggabriel | so the one window per app will solve that problem :) | 12:28 |
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| chem|st | ggabriel: well, that I only have on android devices^^ | 12:29 |
| chem|st | on jolla I just close what I want to be closed | 12:29 |
| * artemma wonders how would sailfish feel if it also had a universal Back gesture working everywhere as Android Back button | 12:29 | |
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| ggabriel | artemma: there's something for that already | 12:30 |
| Nicd- | I really don't get why you are against the "one cover per android app" chem|st | 12:30 |
| chem|st | artemma: flick right is the gesture | 12:30 |
| ggabriel | you can universally swipe to the last page | 12:30 |
| ggabriel | s/last/previous/ | 12:30 |
| artemma | Can't see that. As pretty much everything in sailfish UX it is working sometimes somewhere | 12:30 |
| ggabriel | gesture that you can switch off e.g., maps | 12:30 |
| artemma | As in, you know "we are evolving" :) | 12:30 |
| artemma | sometimes it's a back gesture, sometimes it's switching tabs, sometimes (as in maps or in browser) it doesn't exist at all | 12:31 |
| ggabriel | not sure i get your point then artemma | 12:31 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: I have an android device, so now I have to crosslink that android on my phone does not behave the same as android on my tablet... | 12:31 |
| ggabriel | artemma: oh, i guess the universal back then applies to applications that have pages | 12:31 |
| artemma | except if they are used as tabs :) | 12:31 |
| ggabriel | admittedly, browser(s) can do a bit of a better job, or at least it's a different ux challenge | 12:31 |
| ggabriel | maps is similar | 12:31 |
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| chem|st | and yes I try to close things with swipe down on my tablet, sadly it is no nexus7 and wont have sfos any time soon | 12:31 |
| Nicd- | chem|st: it doesn't behave the same now either. it's not an android device. before it was really clumsy to switch between android apps, so why shouldn't sailfish raise the bar? | 12:31 |
| artemma | or if they are full screne | 12:31 |
| ggabriel | but check tidings, that's pretty cool in terms of going back/forwards | 12:32 |
| ggabriel | email similar | 12:32 |
| ggabriel | notes as well | 12:32 |
| ggabriel | oh, notes | 12:32 |
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| ggabriel | man, i keep losing notes in android because sailfish's notes is too good | 12:32 |
| ggabriel | i'll open a tjc to make notes worse on sailfish :P | 12:32 |
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| chem|st | Nicd-: sure, sfos ftw - any idea how to get rid of the then lonely back button? | 12:33 |
| Nicd- | chem|st: you can't get rid of it, it's used inside apps. why does it matter? | 12:34 |
| Nicd- | the user experience is vastly improved and you're worrying about a button which does the exact same thing it used to? | 12:34 |
| chem|st | artemma: Jolla apps are consistent, developers are misusing it afaik, the browser is indeed a challenge as is any FS app | 12:34 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: I do not mean to get rid of the function, I do mean to get rid of the bottom bar | 12:35 |
| AL13N_work | in respect to consistency, i think all the apps should be consistent wrt edge swipes | 12:35 |
| flux | chem|st, while it would be nice, but it's not really possible because applications make use of the back button | 12:35 |
| chem|st | AL13N_work: which one isnt? | 12:35 |
| Nicd- | chem|st: where would the back button be then? | 12:35 |
| AL13N_work | browser + fingerterm | 12:35 |
| flux | and if you emulate a swipe to a back, it will likely break stuff like browsers where you swipe a lot. | 12:35 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: exactly what I ask about ;) | 12:35 |
| AL13N_work | i donno which ones is good or bad, but they are different | 12:36 |
| flux | instead of getting rid of the bottom bar, the app button could be replaced with a transition to the jolla app grid | 12:36 |
| AL13N_work | if you are in landscape, you need to go from left edge swipe to close the browser, and top edge to close fingerterm | 12:36 |
| flux | hmm, not app grid but the running apps view | 12:36 |
| chem|st | AL13N_work: swipe is from outside the screen and works on browser and fingerterm respectively | 12:36 |
| AL13N_work | it's a bit annoying, hold the phone in landscape and topswipe the browser | 12:37 |
| AL13N_work | you'd have to left-swipe to close it | 12:37 |
| chem|st | AL13N_work: that is a bug, happens if you turn the phone while the app is starting | 12:37 |
| AL13N_work | no, i have this all the time | 12:37 |
| chem|st | if you flip it twice it behaves itself | 12:37 |
| AL13N_work | lol | 12:37 |
| artemma | chem|st: well if you indeed consider jolla ux being consitent, it is a topic for way bigger talk with arguments and discussion, got to run now | 12:37 |
| AL13N_work | still a consistency bug imho | 12:37 |
| artemma | still, I must say I am surprised to see people who really find jolla ux consistent | 12:38 |
| flux | I should chime in at this point that I don't like that the physical gestures get changed depending on which orientation the device thinks it is in ;-) | 12:38 |
| chem|st | artemma: all arguments so far, calling jolla inconsistent brought up examples of inconsistency of Harmattan they consider consistent | 12:38 |
| flux | (whenever I'm in landscape and I want to swipe away, I need to be extra careful to swipe from to right or from the bottom, because if I do it from the left end and I happen to reorient the device during the swipe, I could end up closing the app.) | 12:39 |
| chem|st | flux: yap | 12:39 |
| artemma | sorry, got to go, later. can bring arguments too | 12:39 |
| ggabriel | flux: orientation of the application, not the device ;) | 12:39 |
| AL13N_work | well, i donno, it's pretty consistent to me | 12:39 |
| chem|st | THIS FSCKING SWIPE BY PHONE ORIENTATION THING PISSES ME OFF | 12:39 |
| flux | also there are apps where it's difficult to see its orientation | 12:39 |
| flux | for example camera | 12:39 |
| chem|st | oh sry | 12:39 |
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| flux | you have those small icons indicating it | 12:40 |
| ggabriel | if you're in landscape and are using a portrait application, i think the gestures are still portrait | 12:40 |
| ggabriel | chem|st.findCapsLockKey() | 12:40 |
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| chem|st | ggabriel: ah yeah, swipe by app orientation I mean | 12:40 |
| AL13N_work | what i meant is that the edge swipes should be device specific, not app specific | 12:40 |
| chem|st | it is inconsistent | 12:40 |
| AL13N_work | (only the edge swipes) | 12:40 |
| ggabriel | i got used to it | 12:41 |
| AL13N_work | and should be a checkbox in system where people who don't want to re-orient the edge swipes | 12:41 |
| chem|st | consistent is "close is where the earpiece is" and not where an app currently thinks is top as flat on a table there is no top! | 12:41 |
| ggabriel | basically, when in landscape, i always push slower than usual | 12:41 |
| AL13N_work | ggabriel: me too | 12:41 |
| AL13N_work | but that's not good | 12:41 |
| chem|st | AL13N_work: you are confusing things... can we call it swipe and pull like in the manual? | 12:42 |
| ggabriel | no, still i don't complain too much as it's much faster than android/ios | 12:42 |
| ggabriel | the manual is push and pull actually | 12:42 |
| ggabriel | i made a mistake - i _push_ slower | 12:42 |
| ggabriel | pull at the same speed | 12:42 |
| AL13N_work | the changed manual is push and pull | 12:42 |
| AL13N_work | the old one was swipe and pull | 12:43 |
| chem|st | oh hell, why that now? | 12:43 |
| AL13N_work | anyway, you guys knew what i meant | 12:43 |
| * AL13N_work goes back to work | 12:43 | |
| chem|st | it took month to get tjc and people aligned to swipe and pull and now they changed it again? | 12:43 |
| ggabriel | i thought it was always push and pull :P | 12:43 |
| ggabriel | i remember the first videos | 12:43 |
| flux | ..what's push and pull? | 12:43 |
| ggabriel | push=from edge; pull=from within the screen | 12:44 |
| ggabriel | so, they are swipes basically | 12:44 |
| chem|st | ok push=swipe then | 12:44 |
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| ggabriel | chem|st: aye | 12:44 |
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| chem|st | you push buttons, that is no moving action for me... | 12:45 |
| ggabriel | buttons? what's that? | 12:45 |
| ggabriel | :P | 12:45 |
| ggabriel | you can argue that you tap buttons on a touch screen | 12:45 |
| chem|st | if you refer to it as buttons it makes sense btw^^ | 12:45 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: right ;) | 12:45 |
| ggabriel | this is why i don't like ux too much | 12:45 |
| chem|st | AL13N_work: ok so, we are talking about push moves | 12:46 |
| chem|st | swipe from outside the screen | 12:46 |
| ggabriel | btw, i should do what AL13N_work is doing | 12:46 |
| ggabriel | namely, working | 12:46 |
| chem|st | what happens inside apps is pretty inconsistent as developers have their own ideas and some coming from N9 even try to put buttons somewhere... or even use the button but somehow disabled the pull gesture so you actually have to tap the indicator | 12:47 |
| faenil | chem|st, you push your app away | 12:47 |
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| faenil | like you push a box out of your room | 12:47 |
| faenil | that's the metaphore, I think | 12:48 |
| chem|st | faenil: now make that with "close" please | 12:48 |
| ggabriel | ...or the drunk guy who's standing in front of the tv in the pub | 12:48 |
| faenil | chem|st, ? :D | 12:48 |
| faenil | ggabriel, lol | 12:48 |
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| ggabriel | chem|st: it's like hitting something with your fist, except that you're like superman and your figer suffices | 12:48 |
| chem|st | faenil: you push the app to close and you push from bottom to go to events has nothing to do with "push away" | 12:48 |
| ggabriel | and poof, the application is gone | 12:48 |
| faenil | chem|st, you're pushing the app away from the foreground, that's the thing | 12:49 |
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| chem|st | well lets leave the metaphorical speaking part to the guy writing the manual^^ | 12:49 |
| faenil | :) | 12:49 |
| ggabriel | from bottom, imagine you're gandalf and you're emerging something out of nowhere | 12:49 |
| chem|st | faenil: and that describes only two actions of 4 | 12:49 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: +1 | 12:49 |
| chem|st | nvm | 12:49 |
| faenil | chem|st, it doesn't matter to which side it goes, it disappears from backgroun, so you "pushed it away from background" :D | 12:49 |
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| chem|st | ;) | 12:50 |
| faenil | from foreground I meant, ofc :P | 12:50 |
| chem|st | just messing with you! | 12:50 |
| faenil | :D | 12:50 |
| faenil | but I agree that the actual fading animation has nothing to do with the verb | 12:50 |
| faenil | N9 could have used "push" :) | 12:50 |
| faenil | in this case, you're more like gandalf, yeah | 12:51 |
| chem|st | so people argueing that harmattan is more consistent than sfos... | 12:51 |
| faenil | I have no opinion on that :) | 12:51 |
| flux | why can't we make Sailfish more like N900?-( | 12:51 |
| flux | (was that a too obvious troll..) | 12:52 |
| chem|st | people do and they argue 'pushs' which were never in Harmattan that way... and argue that it is consistent to never know on which screen you end when closing an app... | 12:52 |
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| faenil | ah :) | 12:53 |
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| ggabriel | some questions in tjc are good candidates for a reality show | 12:54 |
| chem|st | flux: pretty good idea... but I kinda like to not have a desktop, I do not have any icons on my desktop-system either | 12:55 |
| chem|st | my laptop does not have a desktop... | 12:55 |
| flux | me2. actually I also use the search to start apps on my desktop, nice that there is QuickSearch (?) for Jolla ;-) | 12:55 |
| flux | in addition I use it to find documents, such as datasheets, that I don't have for Jolla, yet :( | 12:56 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: yes! and it is scary that they get 100+ or even 200+ upvotes | 12:56 |
| sledges | chem|st: a one-off observation (re tjc toh charge) | 12:57 |
| sledges | thanks for mention though | 12:57 |
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| chem|st | sledges: what do you mean by one-off? | 12:57 |
| chem|st | flux: I have something that is called bash... and a windowmanager that works in tiles... | 12:59 |
| flux | chem|st, yes, I too start apps with q graphicalApp &| exit | 12:59 |
| flux | but sometimes it's simpler and faster to use the search. | 12:59 |
| flux | (actually probably not the q-function if I exit the shell right away ;-)) | 13:00 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: flux: hotkeys ftw | 13:00 |
| chem|st | flux: problem is, once you get used to it you forget the actual app's names | 13:00 |
| flux | ggabriel, hotkeys for what? | 13:00 |
| ggabriel | firefox=control+alt+f | 13:00 |
| ggabriel | and so on | 13:00 |
| flux | I don't want to allocate a hotkey for each app I run | 13:00 |
| ggabriel | not each, most popular | 13:00 |
| ggabriel | then you use terminal | 13:00 |
| flux | chem|st, hasn't happened to me so far. actually it wouldn't even work as it doesn't seem to search from app descriptions etc. | 13:01 |
| chem|st | flux: I use 6 layers of kbd on my laptop... | 13:01 |
| chem|st | if you know the touchpad you know why everything has its shortcut | 13:02 |
| flux | nevertheles, I don't see how starting a shell for starting one application is superior to using the already running environment for doing it ;) | 13:02 |
| flux | (I have a hotkey for starting a shell of course) | 13:02 |
| ggabriel | flux: ok, then you use hotkeys already :P | 13:03 |
| chem|st | flux: gui stuff I do not invoke from shell, at least if I don't want to have any verbose output | 13:03 |
| ggabriel | in my case, things like skype/pidgin which need to be on or off depending on where i am | 13:03 |
| ggabriel | it's faster with a hotkey | 13:03 |
| ggabriel | for everything else, terminal+locate/find/whatever | 13:03 |
| chem|st | shortcuts inlcude things like ssh which gives a little textfield to enter the server | 13:03 |
| sledges | chem|st: is in comments - problem gone after reboot | 13:05 |
| chem|st | sledges: ah I didn't read that thanks | 13:05 |
| sledges | np | 13:05 |
| chem|st | well what to do with that item? close? | 13:06 |
| chem|st | or is it actually something that can happen and should not | 13:07 |
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| chem|st | nvm | 13:25 |
| chem|st | I need to get off tjcc or I explode... | 13:25 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: I am so close to shout at people that they are ignorant dumb idiots... | 13:26 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: i feel your pain, been there before | 13:26 |
| ggabriel | so either impersonate yoda | 13:26 |
| ggabriel | or get away | 13:26 |
| thargor | welcome to IT with customer contact :-D | 13:26 |
| ggabriel | let it cool | 13:26 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: (sfw) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg | 13:27 |
| chem|st | thargor: doing that for some years now... | 13:27 |
| thargor | me too and I know your pain | 13:27 |
| chem|st | I want my locked gestures back | 13:27 |
| thargor | ggabriel I currently searching the location where the cam was hidden in my meeting this morning | 13:28 |
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| * ggabriel watching the video again for the 6th time | 13:32 | |
| thargor | ggabriel: I'm still not sure if this is a joke or a real meeting.... | 13:33 |
| ggabriel | thargor: like the title says "short comedy sketch" :) | 13:33 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: awesome! | 13:33 |
| ggabriel | but it does happen for real | 13:33 |
| thargor | not sure at all I was asked this morning to change the memory allocation behavior of an AIX system | 13:34 |
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| ggabriel | thargor: pff, easy task | 13:36 |
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| stephg | yeah that's a great video | 13:38 |
| ale_ | any idea why my jolla suddenly can't find any gsm network? | 13:39 |
| Stskeeps | what does the indicator say? | 13:39 |
| ale_ | grey stripes :| | 13:39 |
| Stskeeps | as in like a \| ? | 13:40 |
| SK_work | isn't it switching to 4G ? | 13:40 |
| ale_ | and in settyes | 13:40 |
| chem|st | ale_: sure the indicator is a reception bar and not an SIM icon? | 13:41 |
| ale_ | it could be a sim icon i guess | 13:41 |
| ale_ | i will investigate further when i get to home | 13:44 |
| ggabriel | ale_: did you try removing and reinserting the sim card? :) | 13:44 |
| ggabriel | that happened to me a couple of times | 13:45 |
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| ggabriel | strange phone/network behaviour | 13:45 |
| ggabriel | used to happen with the n9 too when i used to run through a specific area | 13:45 |
| ale_ | ggabriel: yes, i've tried | 13:46 |
| ggabriel | stephg: admittedly, i've only noticed just now that "go over their location and inflate the balloon" may have a second meaning | 13:46 |
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| ggabriel | ale_: ok, then i wouldn't know | 13:46 |
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| chem|st | blah... a full blown filemanager needs 5+ entries in the pulley - no it does not, or do you need "select" 5 times? | 13:49 |
| gogeta | guys | 13:50 |
| gogeta | I've recived android testing | 13:50 |
| gogeta | for the alpha | 13:50 |
| gogeta | but not works the link | 13:50 |
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| ggabriel | gogeta: probably best to comment that in the tjc question where this was announced? | 13:51 |
| ggabriel | (was Aard behind all this?) | 13:51 |
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| chem|st | or wait a bit and try again... | 13:52 |
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| LarstiQ | chem|st: do you have ideas on how we could make progress on https://together.jolla.com/question/39281/bug-wpa2-enterprise-wpa_supplicant-fails-when-server-cert-is-also-client-cert-radius-radsec-eduroam/ ? | 14:20 |
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| peppelakappa | so there's a method to use eduroam connections? | 14:21 |
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| LarstiQ | peppelakappa: yes | 14:22 |
| peppelakappa | woah | 14:22 |
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| LarstiQ | peppelakappa: see https://together.jolla.com/question/315/wpa-8021x-enteprise-others-wifi-support-needed-workaround/#post-id-38843 for the wifi_eduroam.config example | 14:22 |
| LarstiQ | peppelakappa: the issue for me is that wpa_supplicant refuses to connect because the server certificate is also signed as a client cert | 14:23 |
| LarstiQ | peppelakappa: so as an Aalto university student, that basically means no eduroam | 14:24 |
| peppelakappa | I'll check tomorrow with UniSA eduroam | 14:24 |
| peppelakappa | i don't remember if there's a cert or not | 14:24 |
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| LarstiQ | peppelakappa: if you have issues, maybe I can help debug | 14:25 |
| TMavica | any link of jolla launcher? | 14:25 |
| peppelakappa | but wth, they have to implement a native interface! | 14:25 |
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| LarstiQ | peppelakappa: running `wpa_cli` is helpful to see what is going on | 14:25 |
| LarstiQ | peppelakappa: sure | 14:25 |
| peppelakappa | LarstiQ: thanks, if there will be any problem i'll drop a message here | 14:25 |
| LarstiQ | peppelakappa: but a network connection is more important to me than the UI :) | 14:25 |
| peppelakappa | true! | 14:26 |
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| faenil | peppelakappa, "first we have to stabilize connectivity, before implementing new features" | 14:40 |
| faenil | and they're right | 14:41 |
| faenil | (even though this means a very important feature like this gets delayed :( ) | 14:41 |
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| gogeta | faenil: if I replace mce | 14:43 |
| gogeta | U fuckup whole image ? | 14:43 |
| faenil | well, mce is quite crucial :) | 14:44 |
| faenil | I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't boot anymore after touching mce | 14:44 |
| faenil | but I don't know details ;) | 14:44 |
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| peppelakappa | n00b question: mce? | 14:44 |
| SK_work | (or better, what MCE don't do ?) | 14:45 |
| SK_work | peppelakappa: a rather critical daemon: eg your screen turning on off is managed by MCE | 14:45 |
| gogeta | https://github.com/nemomobile/mce | 14:45 |
| gogeta | double tap and all magic | 14:45 |
| peppelakappa | quite interesting, thanks! | 14:45 |
| faenil | peppelakappa, it's one of those things you don't want to have to debug :D | 14:46 |
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| peppelakappa | faenil: probably :P | 14:46 |
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| chem|st | peppelakappa: eduroam needs a downpatched wpa_supplicant as the current (last 3 releases) declines service as soon as the certificate is a client cert too | 15:05 |
| chem|st | LarstiQ: get jolla to update wpa_supplicant | 15:05 |
| chem|st | afaik upstream wpa_sup is fine | 15:06 |
| special | https://github.com/mer-packages/wpa_supplicant | 15:06 |
| LarstiQ | chem|st: maybe confirm wpa_supplicant 2.2 is fine | 15:06 |
| chem|st | but they are not at wpa-enterprise support yet so they just want to get connman stable atm | 15:06 |
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| LarstiQ | chem|st: meh | 15:07 |
| special | our wpa_supplicant packages build from that repository. If there are updates or patches you want, submit PRs there | 15:07 |
| LarstiQ | special: thanks! | 15:07 |
| chem|st | LarstiQ: well it is more important to have connman behave than have new features, that is at least something I totally agree on | 15:07 |
| fennekki | Is anyone else experiencing crashing apparently resulting from simply having a mobile network connection | 15:07 |
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| chem|st | fennekki: my sister has/had several issues and many others too | 15:08 |
| LarstiQ | chem|st: I understand that, it's just rather inconvenient to only have network at home. But yes. | 15:08 |
| fennekki | as it doesn't seem to matter which apps I have open, nor whether I've connected to wi-fi, nor whether data is enabled, nor whether I've limited connectivity to 4G (which I don't have anyway) 3G or 2G | 15:08 |
| chem|st | fennekki: reboot when putting load on the modem | 15:08 |
| fennekki | The weird thing is, this doesn't seem to happen while charging | 15:08 |
| fennekki | chem|st: pretty much | 15:08 |
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| chem|st | fennekki: battery percentage played a role though | 15:09 |
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| fennekki | though usually it's some background thing so the device might just crash as soon as it gets a connection | 15:09 |
| fennekki | I'm experiencing it when a) connected to mobile b) battery at around 80% or below c) not charging | 15:09 |
| chem|st | fennekki: it used to be about 55% before last release, and before it was sent to care@, now it reboots at ~60% | 15:10 |
| fennekki | Which is peculiar. I've tried going through the logs but apparently nobody ever thought of writing a guide on how to see the last log messages before the current boot in journald. | 15:10 |
| fennekki | chem|st: for me this only started happening like a week ago | 15:10 |
| fennekki | before that I had no "random" reboots at all | 15:10 |
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| chem|st | fennekki: you need to make it persistent | 15:10 |
| fennekki | the log? | 15:10 |
| fennekki | Oh, so it isn't persistent by default. Right, guess I'll do that then. | 15:11 |
| chem|st | /etc/systemd/journald.conf. Change setting Storage to be "Storage=persistent" | 15:11 |
| chem|st | fennekki: that would fill your internal storage over time | 15:11 |
| fennekki | Right, I'll do that and trigger a crash so I'll get some logs | 15:11 |
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| fennekki | guess I'll have to deplete the battery a bit first, though | 15:12 |
| chem|st | Aard: is there anything else fennekki may activate for this matter? ^^ | 15:12 |
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| chem|st | who are the userguide lads/ladies? https://together.jolla.com/question/48408/lock-code-needs-proper-warning/ | 15:14 |
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| Turski | fennekki: you need to create /var/log/journal directory too | 15:14 |
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| chem|st | ty | 15:15 |
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| fennekki | Turski: the journald.conf manpage seems to indicate that Storage=persistent would create that directory, but I guess I will, then | 15:15 |
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| Turski | oh, i remembered it was the opposite | 15:16 |
| fennekki | 'https://together.jolla.com/question/48408/lock-code-needs-prope r-warning/ | 15:16 |
| fennekki | christ wrong paste | 15:16 |
| fennekki | '"auto" is similar to "persistent" but the directory /var/log/journal is not created if needed, so that its existence controls where log data goes.' | 15:16 |
| fennekki | This seems to be saying that persistent creates the directory. | 15:16 |
| Turski | fennekki: oh, that's it | 15:17 |
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| chem|st | "your phone has been repaired and sent back to you." hail! | 15:18 |
| LarstiQ | special: the update to 6280df31bbbd015cb857630868a49c373325ba10 gets rid of the (presumably) offending code, so it looks like the problem will be resolved by waiting. Thanks again! | 15:18 |
| chem|st | LarstiQ: as said, they need to pull upstream... for now you may reinstall a patched version and be good | 15:19 |
| chem|st | LarstiQ: things being in mer does not mean they automagically ended up in sailfish yet | 15:20 |
| LarstiQ | chem|st: I meant to say that the code in https://github.com/mer-packages is fine now, so it is already one step downstream | 15:20 |
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| LarstiQ | chem|st: right, so then the next pull to sailfish will get it | 15:20 |
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| special | chem|st: they do automagically end up in sailfish. We build directly from those repositories. | 15:21 |
| special | *but* master or whichever branch does not necessarily point to the next update | 15:21 |
| * LarstiQ nods | 15:21 | |
| LarstiQ | chem|st: I have several hours of travel scheduled next week, good time to do the patched version then :) | 15:22 |
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| chem|st | special: hmm, then it depends if it is built again^^ as the last patch is 14 days old and the cert patch is even older | 15:24 |
| LarstiQ | chem|st: the cert patch wasn't included in the previous state though, so sailfish could have picked it up the earliest two weeks ago | 15:25 |
| special | well, at some point we froze the content for update 8 | 15:25 |
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| special | if it wasn't in at that time, it'll be part of update 9 | 15:25 |
| special | (generally speaking.) | 15:26 |
| chem|st | special: no biggy, I know it is there, I was just wondering as a newer version was in the connman openbeta (7.18) but it wasn't that new | 15:26 |
| chem|st | special: better get the framework itself stable before looking for more mature things! | 15:27 |
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| faenil | actually, I heard that the patch allowing those connections was applied and then reverted | 15:27 |
| faenil | (in upstream repo, I think) | 15:27 |
| faenil | are you sure that patch is currently applied? | 15:27 |
| LarstiQ | faenil: yes, I checked the diff | 15:27 |
| faenil | LarstiQ, ok ;) | 15:27 |
| LarstiQ | faenil: unless the code is also somewhere else, hmm | 15:28 |
| faenil | no, as special said, github repo is what's used | 15:28 |
| LarstiQ | faenil: I mean, there is one diff hunk removing the openssl_tls_fail_event and none adding it. But if the failure is coded differently I may have missed it | 15:29 |
| faenil | I see | 15:29 |
| faenil | you should ask lpotter when he wakes up, to be sure | 15:30 |
| LarstiQ | it's a 80klines diff so I'm not reading it line by line ;) | 15:30 |
| faenil | ah, peanuts :) | 15:30 |
| SK_work | lol | 15:30 |
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| jmlich | My application is crashing while closing. http://pastebin.com/73jJ352x It is possible to install debuginfos ? | 15:40 |
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| SK_work | jmlich: zypper in qt5-core-debuginfo etc ? | 15:42 |
| SK_work | jmlich: brr, that's not a nice stack trace | 15:43 |
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| SK_work | Google IO :) | 15:56 |
| SK_work | will we have a SFOS conference one day ? | 15:57 |
| peppelakappa | sure ;) | 15:57 |
| faenil | SK_work, we will! o/ | 15:57 |
| Stskeeps | monday mourning with jolla | 15:57 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 15:57 |
| faenil | lol | 15:57 |
| SK_work | :) | 15:57 |
| SK_work | anyway, let's see what Google have for us | 15:57 |
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| Stskeeps | gah, i/o live site won't render for me | 16:01 |
| tango_ | Stskeeps: mourning? | 16:01 |
| Stskeeps | tango_: joke of the last meego conference | 16:01 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:01 |
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| tango_ | oh | 16:02 |
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| peppelakappa | ready for another laggy android version? | 16:02 |
| faenil | Stskeeps, same here, not working | 16:02 |
| faenil | are you using chrome? | 16:02 |
| Stskeeps | both | 16:03 |
| Stskeeps | firefox and chrome | 16:03 |
| faenil | mmm | 16:03 |
| SK_work | works here firefox | 16:03 |
| * Stskeeps watches https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXjhC6LXefk&feature=youtu.be | 16:03 | |
| Stskeeps | ah, refreshed | 16:04 |
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| faenil | works here as well now | 16:07 |
| SK_work | haha | 16:08 |
| SK_work | android homescreen | 16:08 |
| faenil | mm no audio though | 16:08 |
| SK_work | nice | 16:09 |
| SK_work | no audio yeah | 16:09 |
| faenil | ah ok | 16:09 |
| Stskeeps | it's obviously a brain interface | 16:09 |
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| SK_work | let's have android 5 | 16:11 |
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| Trizt | is there a new alien dalvik release soon or a way to revert to previous version? the system_server leaks memory like hell | 16:18 |
| louisdk | Is there any minor effect on battery life whatever you have brightness set to lowest, 80% or 100%? | 16:19 |
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| SK_work | woow < 100$ phone | 16:20 |
| peppelakappa | let's see what hardware will mount | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | SK_work: 100 USD is not an accomplishment today.. | 16:21 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: ship a SFOS with a 100USD HW | 16:21 |
| SK_work | I think that only Google (+ some big manufacturers) can do | 16:22 |
| jmlich | SK_work, installation of qt5-core-debuginfo doesn't help | 16:22 |
| peppelakappa | woow new buttons | 16:22 |
| SK_work | ha: super flat design of android l | 16:22 |
| SK_work | jmlich: does gdb tells you which package to install ? | 16:22 |
| Stskeeps | SK_work: i didn't say it's a good business | 16:23 |
| SK_work | ha | 16:23 |
| Stskeeps | but see armdevices.net | 16:23 |
| SK_work | a screen that changes shape | 16:23 |
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| SK_work | that's not bad | 16:24 |
| SK_work | woow | 16:24 |
| SK_work | a lot of animation, but not bad | 16:24 |
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| peppelakappa | gallery seems the ubuntu touch one | 16:24 |
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| faenil | realtime shadows, as if android wasn't heavy already :D | 16:24 |
| peppelakappa | ha! | 16:25 |
| SK_work | z: 1000 | 16:25 |
| SK_work | :O | 16:25 |
| SK_work | but woow, that's so awesome | 16:25 |
| SK_work | faenil: it looks good | 16:25 |
| faenil | of course it does | 16:25 |
| SK_work | haha | 16:25 |
| SK_work | ambience | 16:25 |
| SK_work | LOL | 16:25 |
| SK_work | it's ambience ! | 16:25 |
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| SK_work | windows phone like | 16:26 |
| * Stskeeps is massively annoyed that he is behind in stream.. | 16:27 | |
| peppelakappa | i know that feel Stskeeps | 16:27 |
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| SK_work | the new design is finally pleasant | 16:28 |
| faenil | yeah, it's nice | 16:28 |
| SK_work | I wonder how Qt can do this | 16:28 |
| SK_work | I think it's not hard for many stuff | 16:29 |
| SK_work | like animating shapes is really simple | 16:29 |
| SK_work | but animated icons, not that nice | 16:29 |
| sletta | SK_work: AnimatedImage and AnimatedSprite doesn’t cut it? | 16:30 |
| SK_work | sletta: it can, but I don't know how google's framework draw the arrow to go to the circle | 16:30 |
| sletta | Not sure I’ve seen this.. got a link? | 16:31 |
| SK_work | sletta: follow google io :P | 16:31 |
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| Stskeeps | sletta: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtLJPvx7-ys | 16:31 |
| SK_work | too colored | 16:31 |
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| SK_work | the animation of the dialer is basic | 16:32 |
| faenil | yeah | 16:32 |
| SK_work | ripple don't convince me | 16:32 |
| SK_work | I wonder why people are happy about this it's SO absic | 16:32 |
| SK_work | not convinced with swipe to get more notif | 16:34 |
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| SK_work | the context locking thing is nice | 16:36 |
| peppelakappa | a lot | 16:36 |
| peppelakappa | maybe could we do a similar thing with sailfish lockscreen and pebble? | 16:37 |
| SK_work | the animation from a title to a top header is nice | 16:39 |
| SK_work | and I wonder how to do this on Qt | 16:39 |
| jmlich | SK_work, I am not sure where to find it. It seems, there is missing a lot of debug infos http://pastebin.com/vBpsdjgm | 16:39 |
| SK_work | pfff recents is horrible :( | 16:40 |
| peppelakappa | true | 16:40 |
| SK_work | how's stack trace now ? | 16:40 |
| SK_work | jmlich: not a problem | 16:40 |
| SK_work | right, what the Nokia N9 did ... 3 years ago ? | 16:41 |
| SK_work | (and what Jolla's missing actually :)) | 16:41 |
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| peppelakappa | that seems maliit. | 16:42 |
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| jmlich | SK_work, the backtrace looks very same as before | 16:44 |
| SK_work | :/ | 16:44 |
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| SK_work | don't know | 16:45 |
| pdanek | Watching Google I/O? | 16:45 |
| peppelakappa | yep pdanek | 16:45 |
| pdanek | The new designs? | 16:45 |
| SK_work | yep | 16:45 |
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| SK_work | now ART | 16:45 |
| peppelakappa | tappy chicken lol | 16:49 |
| SK_work | :D | 16:49 |
| SK_work | there were some flickers | 16:49 |
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| SK_work | and basically we don't know anything about HW etc. | 16:49 |
| peppelakappa | *some* | 16:49 |
| peppelakappa | he talked about "new nvidia tablet", i assume that was a k1 | 16:50 |
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| SK_work | battery saver ? meh | 16:52 |
| SK_work | jmlich: installed glibc debug symbols ? | 16:52 |
| SK_work | jmlich: should install this at first | 16:52 |
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| Stskeeps | is there somebody screaming in the background..? | 16:54 |
| SK_work | cool n7 image, let's check this | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | like saying something | 16:54 |
| Morpog_PC__ | engadget wrote there was a protester | 16:54 |
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| Stskeeps | ah | 16:55 |
| SK_work | g play services :D | 16:56 |
| jmlich | SK_work, I have installed a few another debuginfos and started gdb from command line directly on device. Current backtrace looks like this http://pastebin.com/GbyNeNUb | 16:56 |
| SK_work | gplay services: making the open platform close since .... | 16:56 |
| peppelakappa | +1 | 16:56 |
| jmlich | You can install the software from source codes https://gitorious.org/foursail/foursail/ - Reproducer is easy. Install, Run in debug mode, login to 4sq and close app | 16:56 |
| SK_work | jmlich: install glibc debug | 16:57 |
| SK_work | but I guess you find a Qt bug | 16:57 |
| jmlich | glibc-debuginfo was installed | 16:57 |
| SK_work | :( | 16:57 |
| SK_work | it's related to scene graph | 16:58 |
| pdanek | So what do you think about ART? Better performance, less memory usage. | 16:58 |
| jmlich | I heard, new Qt is coming soon | 16:58 |
| jmlich | So I will wait .. | 16:58 |
| peppelakappa | pdanek: i'll install and report later ;) | 16:58 |
| Morpog_PC__ | jmlich, I guess that will come earliest with update 9, so after the summer break | 16:58 |
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| pdanek | Also the Android One... everyone can now easil use stock Android on their cheap phones. | 17:00 |
| peppelakappa | luckly for them, but motog and motoe are already cheap | 17:00 |
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| pdanek | not cheap enough | 17:02 |
| peppelakappa | why? moto e costs 120$ | 17:02 |
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| pdanek | yes, too much | 17:02 |
| pdanek | Google wants to eventually replace every phone with Android | 17:02 |
| pdanek | even dumb phones | 17:02 |
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| peppelakappa | yes but, android one costs not much less in my opinion | 17:03 |
| pdanek | I can imagine that some people can only afford like $80 phone | 17:03 |
| SK_work | they said 100$ | 17:04 |
| pdanek | the guy in google I/O has shown the ANdroid smartphone from India, 4.5" screen and he said it costs less than 100 dollars | 17:04 |
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| pdanek | with Google One | 17:04 |
| pdanek | he said less than 100 | 17:04 |
| pdanek | although it can be $99.99 :D | 17:04 |
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| fennekki | Alright, finally this thing decided to crash | 17:17 |
| fennekki | let's do the logging thing | 17:18 |
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| pdanek1 | Too bad that Sailyfish doesn't have online high-score table. | 17:20 |
| pdanek1 | It's fun to compete in high-score with such small community as Sailfish | 17:20 |
| fennekki | Wait, but, does journald flush the log to drive after every write | 17:21 |
| fennekki | Because otherwise I'm just going to lose the last few lines anyway | 17:21 |
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| harryg | hello how can i use pgp on jolla? | 17:25 |
| harryg | i noticed the is gpg installed in terminal but how can i activate it in email? | 17:26 |
| pdanek1 | So basically, what Apple has shown between the phones and desktop, the sync between apps. Google has shown between phones and wearables. | 17:26 |
| pdanek1 | harryg: np pgp support in Jolla email client as far I know, at the moment | 17:26 |
| harryg | wow thats sad | 17:27 |
| harryg | is there an alternate client? I guess there was evolution for the N900? | 17:27 |
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| peppelakappa | you can use some android apps for now | 17:27 |
| harryg | i tried k9-mail on android once and that sucked. | 17:28 |
| pdanek1 | harryg: https://together.jolla.com/question/887/gpg-for-email-and-other-stuff/ | 17:28 |
| pdanek1 | yea.. | 17:28 |
| pdanek1 | K-9 is one of them :( | 17:28 |
| harryg | thanks for the link, just reading again | 17:29 |
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| harryg | has anyone tried r2mail2 | 17:30 |
| harryg | ? | 17:30 |
| harryg | it's not free, mmh. | 17:30 |
| harryg | and what is that mutt thing? | 17:31 |
| sledges | mutt - text-based mail client, awesom! :)) | 17:31 |
| harryg | sledges? on terminal? on jolla??? | 17:32 |
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| harryg | sledges is it working? Then I will try it? At least it is free:) | 17:34 |
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| pdanek | sledges: mutt in Jolla terminal must be pain | 17:40 |
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| fennekki | There's literally nothing in the system log before the sudden reboot | 17:41 |
| fennekki | something just fails | 17:41 |
| pdanek | fennekki: was your battery low? | 17:41 |
| fennekki | 62% | 17:42 |
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| harryg | damned got disconnected | 17:42 |
| fennekki | so thus far the only confirmed thing is that when the battery has been depleted a bit and something puts stress on the modem - dunno how much, because it certainly is possible to operate over a mobile network for a while | 17:42 |
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| fennekki | under those conditions the device reboots | 17:43 |
| fennekki | without anything indicating why in the log | 17:44 |
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| pdanek | fennekki: yes that was my case as well, battery low, modem under stress | 17:44 |
| fennekki | I've both saved the log and followed it via ssh - nothing there | 17:44 |
| fennekki | pdanek: well, the battery isn't exactly *low* considering I should be able to use my phone below 80% | 17:44 |
| pdanek | fennekki: and it rebooted by itself or you initiated call? | 17:44 |
| fennekki | rebooted itself, though presumably would also reboot on call | 17:44 |
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| fennekki | I can try initiating a call, that should reboot it as well, probably | 17:45 |
| pdanek | I see. | 17:46 |
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| fennekki | Well, calling myself didn't trigger it | 17:47 |
| fennekki | but mobile data doesn't have to be on, as far as I recall | 17:47 |
| fennekki | let's see | 17:47 |
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| pdanek | Google I/O: same phone and chromebook integration as apple has! | 17:51 |
| fennekki | well! It's not rebooting now | 17:51 |
| fennekki | so... Maybe it's only with mobile data | 17:52 |
| fennekki | or maybe it just takes longer | 17:52 |
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| fennekki | I should just disable joins for this channel, how did you do that again with irssi | 17:55 |
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| lipi | fennekki: ./ignore -channels #jollamobile * JOINS PARTS QUITS NICKS | 18:00 |
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| fennekki | I wanna have NICKS but thanks for the other things | 18:01 |
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| pdanek1 | Why during Apple event, people screamed more, clapped more, enjoyed more? | 18:02 |
| pdanek1 | Google I/O seems much more sleepy. | 18:02 |
| pdanek1 | Apple knows how to present. | 18:03 |
| Jope | or apple's fans are more devoted | 18:03 |
| fennekki | They probably are, since Apple p much provides everything under one brand | 18:03 |
| fennekki | Hardware and software | 18:03 |
| fennekki | and even their own peripherals | 18:04 |
| Jope | "tim cook: we invented for you, something that already existed" "crowd: this changes EVERYTHING" | 18:04 |
| fennekki | Google is mostly focused on the software side, afaik | 18:04 |
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| pdanek1 | The guy screaming about robots that kill people. :D | 18:11 |
| pdanek1 | Have you guys just hear? | 18:11 |
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| Kondou | pdanek: The presenting guys reaction was way better imho :D | 18:38 |
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| Kondou | Umm … Uh … So … Um … | 18:38 |
| chem|st | re | 18:39 |
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| pdanek | :D | 18:42 |
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| chem|st | so google is now doing what nokia did the last 15 years... provide cheap completely locked-down phones to areas where carriers want full control over their customers... neat | 19:21 |
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| fennekki | What's wrong with that? | 19:25 |
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| fennekki | Well! it finally crashed even without mobile data | 19:28 |
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| fennekki | so yeah guess it's just that the modem is enabled at all | 19:28 |
| chem|st | Nothing, that is where Nokia was unable to deliver anymore | 19:28 |
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| chem|st | A company trying to silence a phone that sells better on markets it was not directly delivered to without marketing than those they officially put on markets with proper marketing is doomed | 19:29 |
| chem|st | thankfully they sponsored a startup.. what was it called again? | 19:30 |
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| gogeta | hi guys | 19:38 |
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| gogeta | Aard: are u here | 19:38 |
| gogeta | ? | 19:38 |
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| fennekki | I guess the amusing thing about Nokia is, when Elop was announced to be the new CEO everyone just basically started betting on when it'd be acquired by Microsoft. | 19:43 |
| fennekki | And yet for some reason everyone seemed surprised | 19:44 |
| gogeta | who is responsible for sailfish android launcher | 19:47 |
| gogeta | ? | 19:47 |
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| Aard | gogeta: not really | 19:49 |
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| gogeta | i have requested alpha for a non google play email | 19:50 |
| Aard | gogeta: I have nothing to do with the android launcher, and I'm not sure if anyone handling that is currently in here | 19:52 |
| jake9xx | ask 'harha' in @twitter maybe | 19:52 |
| gogeta | but i've see the youtube demo | 19:52 |
| gogeta | it rocks | 19:53 |
| gogeta | i don't know hime | 19:53 |
| gogeta | *him | 19:53 |
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| Aard | gogeta: just give it a try, he might help you out | 19:53 |
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| gogeta | i'll wait | 19:58 |
| gogeta | i prefer to port native | 19:59 |
| gogeta | ;-) | 19:59 |
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| gogeta | hi b0bben | 20:12 |
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| pdanek1 | Most of the time, I don't actually choose roll-out menu item directly, but roll-out completely and click afterward. Is it similar for your usage? | 20:14 |
| giucam | roll out, as in pull down? | 20:15 |
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| pdanek | giucam: yes | 20:19 |
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| pdanek | Most of the time, I don't actually choose pull-down menu item directly, but pull-down completely and click afterward. Is it similar for your usage? | 20:20 |
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| giucam | pdanek: nope, i never click on them afterwards | 20:20 |
| giucam | i'd have to move the finger for that | 20:21 |
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| P67_ | hi there.. i am trying to troubleshoot an issue concerning an android app that crashes out when i want to watch television. concerns the dutch app Horizon TV.. how do i go around? all journalctl said is a rather cryptic stacktrace. | 21:06 |
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| chem|st | giucam: good boy^^ | 21:07 |
| chem|st | nice to read someone actually prefering it how it is meant to be used | 21:07 |
| P67_ | how do you mean? | 21:09 |
| chem|st | P67_: I was not refering to you, but anyways, can you pastebin the logs you feel are cryptic to you? | 21:11 |
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| P67_ | chem|st: i figured as much.. just wondering if i missed something and might learn something :) | 21:13 |
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| chem|st | P67_: for your problem, does aliendalvik crash or just the horizon app? | 21:20 |
| P67_ | chem|st: just the app. working on getting logs asap | 21:22 |
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| P67 | chem|ist: I got the logs now: http://pastebin.com/E529kFce | 21:39 |
| P67 | chem|st: even | 21:39 |
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| chem|st | page faults could be memory issues, there was a tjc about alien system_service leaking | 21:47 |
| chem|st | but that is cryptic for me too lets wait and see if some of the jolla guys read it | 21:48 |
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| P67 | chem|st: Mmm. Let's hope so. | 21:50 |
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| phdeswer | P67: E dalvikvm: Could not find class 'com.buydrm.mediaplayer.MediaPlayer$DisplayTracker', referenced from method com.buydrm.mediaplayer.MediaPlayer.setDataSource Seems to indicate something does not exist | 22:03 |
| phdeswer | so that MediaPlayerList segfaults most likely because it tries to access something that is not there | 22:03 |
| P67 | phdeswer: I noticed that too, But i have little explanation to it. | 22:04 |
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| phdeswer | Well the page fault stuff indicates an invalid memory access from that program (which is why it segfaults) | 22:06 |
| chem|st | phdeswer: oh I am getting tired, I overread it completely | 22:06 |
| phdeswer | But well what goes on in the android emulation I have no clue. I don't use it (nor want it anywhere close to my Jolla). | 22:06 |
| phdeswer | chem|st: happens to us all ;) | 22:07 |
| chem|st | phdeswer: seems like alien is missing a display-plugin | 22:07 |
| chem|st | DisplayTracker sounds something like from the samsung "displaychooser" to handle where to play back | 22:09 |
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| chem|st | P67: do you have an android with the app? | 22:10 |
| P67 | chem|st: I do yes | 22:11 |
| chem|st | does the player show some TV like icon with a number in it? | 22:11 |
| chem|st | or even without number | 22:12 |
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| P67 | chem|st: You mean the play/pause/stop overlay and whatnot? | 22:12 |
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| chem|st | yes | 22:12 |
| chem|st | the "window" | 22:12 |
| chem|st | decoration | 22:12 |
| P67 | chem|st: Yes it does. Has an overlay with fullscreen stop and next channel and whatnot | 22:15 |
| chem|st | from the variable name I'd guess it is either unable to return a display to output | 22:15 |
| P67 | Just wondering if i could do anything to it. I don't mind if it's just not working.. Just tinkering with it as to get things working that don't work. hehe. | 22:16 |
| chem|st | I have no idea what debug features are available to find out what that variable should have returned | 22:17 |
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| P67 | chem|st: Hmm.. I guess i will get back to it soon then. Thanks for your time so far mate | 22:21 |
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| sledges | chem|st: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=jolla+toh+wireless+charger&tbm=isch | 23:29 |
| sledges | it might be that s3 receiver will not be best bet :/ | 23:30 |
| sledges | our community fellow has ordered it from somewhere and s3 receiver has been manually cut to fit inside 3d printed toh, it appears they've cut the circuitry too | 23:31 |
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| sledges | how l8me... :/ | 23:31 |
| sledges | sorry about that, but you might need to look for a more suitable shape of form: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92059 | 23:31 |
| sledges | or trace two wires instead :) | 23:32 |
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| chem|st | sledges: to find one with 5V on the right side was hard enough... as it seemed to be S3 only | 23:44 |
| chem|st | sledges: it might be not the best fit, I was looking for one that looks more square'ish in shape than the others | 23:45 |
| chem|st | we will see... 9.10eur isn't that much compared to a 30eur toh with a 5c rfid | 23:46 |
| * sledges nods and smiles | 23:46 | |
| sledges | that tmo thread discusses many other shapes available | 23:47 |
| sledges | and im looking through my photo album from the first london meetup in march - Jari had one and i took a pix | 23:48 |
| sledges | will find tomorrow :) | 23:48 |
| sledges | night now! | 23:48 |
| chem|st | think I found what you mean | 23:50 |
| chem|st | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1403266&postcount=36 | 23:50 |
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