| *** minimec has quit IRC | 00:10 | |
| *** imunsie has joined #jollamobile | 00:12 | |
| *** minimec has joined #jollamobile | 00:12 | |
| *** minimec has joined #jollamobile | 00:12 | |
| *** arcean has quit IRC | 00:25 | |
| *** phaeron has quit IRC | 00:25 | |
| *** pemontto1 has quit IRC | 00:28 | |
| *** phaeron has joined #jollamobile | 00:38 | |
| *** bef0rd_ has joined #jollamobile | 00:48 | |
| *** phaeron has quit IRC | 00:52 | |
| *** arnbak has joined #jollamobile | 00:55 | |
| *** phaeron has joined #jollamobile | 00:55 | |
| *** arnbak has quit IRC | 00:59 | |
| *** imunsie has quit IRC | 01:05 | |
| *** gigetoo has quit IRC | 01:14 | |
| *** gigetoo has joined #jollamobile | 01:16 | |
| *** Adityab has quit IRC | 01:29 | |
| *** GsC_RuL3Z is now known as [Afk]GsC_RuL3Z | 01:44 | |
| *** Milhouse has quit IRC | 01:45 | |
| *** BeholdMyGlory has quit IRC | 02:16 | |
| *** Milhouse has joined #jollamobile | 02:29 | |
| *** Milhouse has joined #jollamobile | 02:29 | |
| *** vesurivs has quit IRC | 02:38 | |
| *** Morpog_PC__ has joined #jollamobile | 02:44 | |
| *** Milhouse has quit IRC | 03:01 | |
| *** Pebby has quit IRC | 03:11 | |
| *** Pebby has joined #jollamobile | 03:12 | |
| *** Milhouse has joined #jollamobile | 03:13 | |
| *** meegobit has quit IRC | 03:14 | |
| *** gexc_ has joined #jollamobile | 04:06 | |
| *** protem has joined #jollamobile | 04:10 | |
| *** protem has joined #jollamobile | 04:10 | |
| *** FReaper-PC has joined #jollamobile | 04:11 | |
| *** phaeron has quit IRC | 04:19 | |
| *** gexc_ has quit IRC | 04:38 | |
| *** phaeron has joined #jollamobile | 04:46 | |
| *** vode has joined #jollamobile | 04:52 | |
| *** phaeron has quit IRC | 04:59 | |
| *** MikaT has quit IRC | 05:03 | |
| *** MikaT has joined #jollamobile | 05:03 | |
| *** furikku has joined #jollamobile | 05:04 | |
| *** phaeron has joined #jollamobile | 05:08 | |
| *** gexc has joined #jollamobile | 05:27 | |
| *** phaeron has quit IRC | 05:30 | |
| *** Mossepo has quit IRC | 05:37 | |
| *** phaeron has joined #jollamobile | 05:50 | |
| *** FReaper-PC has quit IRC | 05:52 | |
| *** phaeron has quit IRC | 05:55 | |
| *** Milhouse has quit IRC | 06:01 | |
| *** nyov has joined #jollamobile | 06:06 | |
| *** FlameReaper-PC has joined #jollamobile | 06:08 | |
| *** phaeron has joined #jollamobile | 06:08 | |
| *** Natunen has joined #jollamobile | 06:09 | |
| *** phaeron has quit IRC | 06:12 | |
| *** Milhouse has joined #jollamobile | 06:14 | |
| *** phaeron has joined #jollamobile | 06:35 | |
| *** phinaliumz has joined #jollamobile | 06:36 | |
| *** goroboro has quit IRC | 06:41 | |
| *** goroboro has joined #jollamobile | 06:41 | |
| *** _al_ has quit IRC | 06:42 | |
| *** friese has joined #jollamobile | 06:54 | |
| *** Blizzz has joined #jollamobile | 06:55 | |
| *** disharmonic has quit IRC | 06:56 | |
| *** Milhouse has quit IRC | 07:04 | |
| *** HarhaanJohtaja has joined #jollamobile | 07:07 | |
| *** Milhouse has joined #jollamobile | 07:17 | |
| *** Milhouse has quit IRC | 07:17 | |
| *** Milhouse has joined #jollamobile | 07:17 | |
| *** cb400f has joined #jollamobile | 07:43 | |
| *** thessy has joined #jollamobile | 07:44 | |
| *** patinux has quit IRC | 07:45 | |
| *** thessy has quit IRC | 07:54 | |
| *** Tofe|Away is now known as Tofe | 07:56 | |
| *** gexc has quit IRC | 07:59 | |
| *** ortylp has joined #jollamobile | 08:07 | |
| *** Anz_ has joined #jollamobile | 08:11 | |
| *** protem has quit IRC | 08:11 | |
| *** wootis has joined #jollamobile | 08:13 | |
| *** ortylp has quit IRC | 08:16 | |
| *** faenil has joined #jollamobile | 08:22 | |
| faenil | morning | 08:24 |
|---|---|---|
| *** PTapioK has quit IRC | 08:25 | |
| *** Lipevakala_ has joined #jollamobile | 08:27 | |
| *** PTapioK has joined #jollamobile | 08:27 | |
| *** friese has quit IRC | 08:34 | |
| flux | nice, latest upgrade apparently broke android sounds for me :/ | 08:38 |
| *** Blizzz has quit IRC | 08:44 | |
| Anz_ | flux: broke? | 08:46 |
| *** kunev has joined #jollamobile | 08:52 | |
| *** ced117 has joined #jollamobile | 08:52 | |
| *** Anz_ has quit IRC | 08:54 | |
| flux | aandroid apps stay silent | 08:54 |
| flux | worked before | 08:54 |
| flux | haven't tried a reboot, though, but i did stop/start aliendalvik | 08:55 |
| faenil | flux, and the "media volume" (i.e. the one changed with volume keys) is max? | 08:56 |
| flux | yes | 08:57 |
| flux | also media player plays fine | 08:58 |
| flux | well, it's not max but maybe 80% | 08:58 |
| faenil | try max, android volume could be lower | 08:58 |
| faenil | and the curve is logarithmic iirc | 08:59 |
| *** Nightmare__ has joined #jollamobile | 08:59 | |
| *** crazy_imp has quit IRC | 08:59 | |
| *** crazy_imp has joined #jollamobile | 09:01 | |
| *** crazy_imp has quit IRC | 09:01 | |
| *** crazy_imp has joined #jollamobile | 09:01 | |
| *** Blizzz has joined #jollamobile | 09:01 | |
| *** Blizzz has joined #jollamobile | 09:01 | |
| *** artemma has joined #jollamobile | 09:03 | |
| flux | nope, still silent | 09:04 |
| faenil | mm :/ | 09:05 |
| *** pat_o_ has quit IRC | 09:06 | |
| *** itbaron has joined #jollamobile | 09:07 | |
| Morpog_PC__ | flux i had that before | 09:07 |
| Morpog_PC__ | install an android app that can control sound volumes | 09:07 |
| Morpog_PC__ | it's just muted | 09:07 |
| Morpog_PC__ | the one I used was called volume control | 09:08 |
| *** gexc_ has joined #jollamobile | 09:12 | |
| *** gexc_ is now known as gexc | 09:12 | |
| flux | hmm, the volum2 control Ifound is a widget | 09:14 |
| Morpog_PC__ | the one i had was an app | 09:14 |
| flux | sound manager didn't help | 09:14 |
| *** gexc has quit IRC | 09:15 | |
| Morpog_PC__ | android app store has lots of apps for it | 09:16 |
| Morpog_PC__ | errr amazon app store | 09:17 |
| *** nodevel has quit IRC | 09:18 | |
| *** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 09:18 | |
| *** FlameReaper-PC has quit IRC | 09:19 | |
| pdanek | Blackphones coming in three weeks, will ship in millions, backers say. | 09:22 |
| pdanek | Even though Android is like magnet for malware. | 09:23 |
| pdanek | Looks like it may spot one of most secure OSes. | 09:23 |
| *** Guest57013 has joined #jollamobile | 09:23 | |
| pdanek | SilentCircle is behind it -> good stuff... | 09:23 |
| flux | tried three android mixes, no help.. they all say it's full volume. | 09:28 |
| *** vesurivs has joined #jollamobile | 09:30 | |
| *** goroboro has quit IRC | 09:31 | |
| *** roboro has joined #jollamobile | 09:31 | |
| *** FlameReaper-PC has joined #jollamobile | 09:32 | |
| Morpog_PC__ | system volume too? | 09:33 |
| *** Nichope has quit IRC | 09:33 | |
| *** Nichope has joined #jollamobile | 09:34 | |
| *** Nichope has quit IRC | 09:34 | |
| *** Nichope has joined #jollamobile | 09:34 | |
| *** Penthotal has joined #jollamobile | 09:34 | |
| *** JLP__ has quit IRC | 09:34 | |
| *** Nichope has quit IRC | 09:35 | |
| coderus | flux: do you have sound at all? | 09:35 |
| *** Nichope has joined #jollamobile | 09:35 | |
| *** Nichope has quit IRC | 09:36 | |
| *** pdanek1 has joined #jollamobile | 09:36 | |
| flux | I do, ie. from the jolla media player | 09:38 |
| *** Nichope has joined #jollamobile | 09:39 | |
| *** pdanek has quit IRC | 09:40 | |
| coderus | flux: share your journal log | 09:40 |
| *** plfiorini has joined #jollamobile | 09:40 | |
| *** vode has quit IRC | 09:44 | |
| FireFly | flux: have you tried multiple android programs with sound? | 09:45 |
| FireFly | just to rule out that it could be a one-app issue | 09:45 |
| *** FIQ has quit IRC | 09:46 | |
| *** patinux has joined #jollamobile | 09:47 | |
| *** Guest32358 has joined #jollamobile | 09:48 | |
| *** Adityab has joined #jollamobile | 09:50 | |
| *** Nichope has quit IRC | 09:50 | |
| *** Nichope has joined #jollamobile | 09:51 | |
| *** Sfiet_Konstantin has joined #jollamobile | 09:51 | |
| *** Nichope has quit IRC | 09:55 | |
| *** Sail0r has joined #jollamobile | 10:00 | |
| *** arcean has joined #jollamobile | 10:01 | |
| *** JLP has joined #jollamobile | 10:04 | |
| *** JLP has joined #jollamobile | 10:04 | |
| *** Adityab_ has joined #jollamobile | 10:05 | |
| *** Nichope has joined #jollamobile | 10:06 | |
| *** Adityab has quit IRC | 10:08 | |
| *** Zotan has joined #jollamobile | 10:11 | |
| flux | angry birds, another game and two music streaming apps from the same vendor (sky.fm, di.fm) | 10:13 |
| *** ndvl has quit IRC | 10:14 | |
| *** Zotan has quit IRC | 10:20 | |
| *** Tofe is now known as Tofe|Away | 10:21 | |
| *** Sequenced_ has joined #jollamobile | 10:24 | |
| slate | install some volume-adjust apk and see if android side is muted | 10:25 |
| *** TMavica has quit IRC | 10:27 | |
| *** stryx` has quit IRC | 10:28 | |
| *** Sequenced has quit IRC | 10:28 | |
| *** stryx` has joined #jollamobile | 10:28 | |
| *** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 10:30 | |
| flux | slate, well, I installed three volume adjusting apps and none of them suggested it was muted | 10:36 |
| flux | is this muting property so rare that none of them might have supported it? | 10:36 |
| *** petrisi has quit IRC | 10:36 | |
| *** Morpog_PC__ has quit IRC | 10:39 | |
| *** Morpog_PC has joined #jollamobile | 10:40 | |
| *** ndvl has quit IRC | 10:45 | |
| *** spider-mario has joined #jollamobile | 10:45 | |
| *** disharmonic has joined #jollamobile | 10:47 | |
| *** tonyoy has quit IRC | 10:48 | |
| pdanek1 | http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20140606/356848/ | 10:52 |
| stephg | cool | 10:57 |
| *** Adityab_ is now known as Adityab | 11:00 | |
| *** AlmAck has joined #jollamobile | 11:03 | |
| *** Sailor-2gether has joined #jollamobile | 11:04 | |
| *** [Afk]GsC_RuL3Z is now known as GsC_RuL3Z | 11:06 | |
| *** Sail0r has quit IRC | 11:08 | |
| *** Sailor-2gether has quit IRC | 11:09 | |
| *** Lipevakala has joined #jollamobile | 11:09 | |
| *** Lipevakala has quit IRC | 11:10 | |
| *** Lipevakala has joined #jollamobile | 11:10 | |
| *** AJAX555 has quit IRC | 11:11 | |
| *** Lipevakala has quit IRC | 11:12 | |
| *** Lipevakala has joined #jollamobile | 11:12 | |
| *** Lipevakala_ has quit IRC | 11:13 | |
| *** Lipevakala has quit IRC | 11:14 | |
| *** Lipevakala has joined #jollamobile | 11:14 | |
| *** Sequenced_ has quit IRC | 11:15 | |
| *** Lipevakala has quit IRC | 11:16 | |
| *** Lipevakala has joined #jollamobile | 11:16 | |
| *** Sequenced_ has joined #jollamobile | 11:17 | |
| *** Lipevakala has quit IRC | 11:17 | |
| *** Lipevakala has joined #jollamobile | 11:17 | |
| *** Lipevakala has quit IRC | 11:20 | |
| *** Lipevakala has joined #jollamobile | 11:21 | |
| *** AJAX555 has joined #jollamobile | 11:21 | |
| AJAX555 | there we go, right channel this time | 11:21 |
| *** Lipevakala has quit IRC | 11:22 | |
| *** Lipevakala has joined #jollamobile | 11:23 | |
| *** Lipevakala has quit IRC | 11:25 | |
| *** Lipevakala has joined #jollamobile | 11:25 | |
| *** Lipevakala has quit IRC | 11:27 | |
| *** Lipevakala has joined #jollamobile | 11:27 | |
| *** Lipevakala has quit IRC | 11:31 | |
| *** FlameReaper-PC has quit IRC | 11:34 | |
| *** evil_core has joined #jollamobile | 11:37 | |
| evil_core | hi all | 11:37 |
| evil_core | does Jolla Phone has "Nokia Drive" app like n9 got? | 11:38 |
| *** Bryal has joined #jollamobile | 11:41 | |
| cb400f | nope | 11:42 |
| cb400f | you can use some android offline navigation apps (personally use 'osmand~') | 11:42 |
| cb400f | the jolla has a 'Here' maps app... it can calculate your route, but it needs connectivity and it can't recalculate automatically, and doesn't have voice | 11:43 |
| cb400f | also there's a native osm based app called modrana under development (port from n900) afaik | 11:44 |
| *** Sfiet_Konstantin has quit IRC | 11:45 | |
| *** Lipevakala has joined #jollamobile | 11:45 | |
| cb400f | maybe it'll be possible to run MS/Nokia android apps, from the upcoming low-end MS/Nokia android phones :-) | 11:45 |
| sledges | running google maps nav with live traffic info here np | 11:46 |
| * tbr ponders if the nokia drive apps have any explicity copy protection or if they "just use" hw optimizations and direct calls | 11:47 | |
| *** parasemic has joined #jollamobile | 11:48 | |
| evil_core | n9 nav were really awesome, offline maps very usable outside own country | 11:49 |
| *** Lipevakala has quit IRC | 11:49 | |
| artemma | offline maps need expensive licensing.. | 11:49 |
| artemma | or community maps | 11:49 |
| *** Lipevakala has joined #jollamobile | 11:49 | |
| parasemic | how come im the only one whos phone goes worse and worse every update? please help : ( | 11:50 |
| parasemic | latest patch broke my 3g connection | 11:50 |
| artemma | parasemic: opu are not the only one :) | 11:50 |
| artemma | I've got a cure however | 11:50 |
| artemma | full reset two times made my Jolla almost fast again | 11:50 |
| artemma | still a bit f freezing when many apps are running, but most ppl would probably consider it normal | 11:51 |
| cb400f | how many openrepos and optional experimental patches are you guys experimenting with? | 11:51 |
| parasemic | well my phone in un usable now | 11:51 |
| * cb400f never haz problems (knocks on wood) | 11:51 | |
| parasemic | the 3g connection "lags" like shit. everything takes like 20 seconds to happen such as opening friends, loading up a web page etc | 11:52 |
| parasemic | mitäkuuluu started to lose connection and go to deep sleep mode similar to wifi | 11:52 |
| cb400f | did you install the optional connman update? | 11:52 |
| parasemic | no, what's that? | 11:52 |
| coderus | parasemic: are you using 0.8.0? | 11:52 |
| *** tonyoy has joined #jollamobile | 11:52 | |
| parasemic | coderus its not about mitäkuuluu but my connection. the phone drops the whole 3g connection every fucking 15 minutes | 11:53 |
| cb400f | it's an update to the connection manager, which inovloves some risks... but if I understand correctly you need to actively to install it | 11:53 |
| * artemma wonders why a network issue is able to influence UI fluidness at all.. | 11:53 | |
| parasemic | or more frequent | 11:53 |
| *** Lipevakala has quit IRC | 11:53 | |
| *** Lipevakala has joined #jollamobile | 11:53 | |
| coderus | parasemic: i just added ten minutes wakeup in mitakuuluu, it should recover connection if sleeped | 11:54 |
| parasemic | cb400f where do i find this update? | 11:54 |
| cb400f | I did not recommend it, I just wondered if the problems occured _after_ installing this update, which obviously they didn't | 11:54 |
| parasemic | also cutespotify broke completely, as the connection became so unstable it crashed every 1 or 2 minutes | 11:54 |
| parasemic | well i could try it, as im fucking hopeless. the phone is completely and utterly useless now | 11:55 |
| *** pdanek has joined #jollamobile | 11:55 | |
| artemma | full reset should help. but it takes time.. and you might need to do it a coupe of times | 11:56 |
| parasemic | funny thing is, i have DNA 3g connection, and DNA is jollas main partner in finland so i didnt expect connection issues | 11:56 |
| cb400f | I don't suppose you're located in an underground tunnel a 1000 miles from the nearest antenna or something? ;-) | 11:57 |
| parasemic | no, it happens everywhere at all times | 11:58 |
| *** pdanek1 has quit IRC | 11:58 | |
| parasemic | eg. on my way to work with a bus, i used to listen to cutespotify whole time with zero issues, now it crashes before i can finish a singe song | 11:58 |
| parasemic | single* | 11:58 |
| parasemic | just fucking great | 11:59 |
| parasemic | also, opening maps destroys the phone and i have to fight 10 minutes to get them closed to have the total freeze healed | 11:59 |
| parasemic | or take the battery out | 11:59 |
| *** AJAX555 has quit IRC | 12:00 | |
| *** Sequenced_ has quit IRC | 12:00 | |
| tbr | parasemic: you might want to do a factory reset, just like suggested already. | 12:00 |
| parasemic | do i need to download all updates again? | 12:01 |
| tbr | yes | 12:01 |
| *** Sequenced_ has joined #jollamobile | 12:01 | |
| parasemic | crap. | 12:02 |
| *** AJAX555 has joined #jollamobile | 12:02 | |
| tbr | well, IIRC it skips a few | 12:02 |
| tbr | no idea how the current upgrade path looks like | 12:02 |
| coderus | afaik its 1.0.2.5 -> 1.0.3.8 -> latest | 12:02 |
| coderus | means 1 to 1.0.2.5 first | 12:03 |
| parasemic | allright... well i guess i have no other options | 12:03 |
| parasemic | maybe i should just stick with the earlier version tho | 12:03 |
| artemma | parasemic: when/if you decide to have a backup before reset, take a notice that by default it is NOT created to sdcard and will be deleted during reset | 12:04 |
| * artemma have lost all his photos this way, fortunately expeected something like this so they were backed up to pc | 12:04 | |
| *** FlameReaper-PC has joined #jollamobile | 12:04 | |
| parasemic | well, i only have stupid drunken selfies on my phone so it's maybe better to just let go | 12:05 |
| * artemma still wonders why default backup location is not the sd card though | 12:05 | |
| cb400f | parasemic: as for the opt-in update: https://together.jolla.com/question/45026/hotfix-opt-in-hotfix-for-connectivity-in-upcoming-update-7/ | 12:08 |
| *** PTapioK has quit IRC | 12:08 | |
| cb400f | but if I understand correctly, if the problems were introduced by the official update 7, there's prolly something else wrong | 12:09 |
| *** PTapioK has joined #jollamobile | 12:10 | |
| *** rubdos has joined #jollamobile | 12:14 | |
| parasemic | well, i'll try that anyway | 12:16 |
| pdanek | If some big company wants to buy Jolla, like Amazon. | 12:17 |
| pdanek | Was there any interview with Jolla questioning that? | 12:18 |
| pdanek | As that is usually one of the key questions for new companies. | 12:18 |
| artemma | Making a profitable phone company is very tough nowadays. Possibly Samsung and Apple are the only one getting real profits | 12:19 |
| artemma | and I am not sure if platform superiority is really significant factor there | 12:19 |
| cb400f | I guess if some megacorp would want to buy Jolla, they would first insert some corrupt CEO to drive the value to rock bottom ;-) | 12:19 |
| pdanek | :D | 12:19 |
| pdanek | Maybe he wasn't Trojan horse. | 12:20 |
| pdanek | Maybe he's angel. | 12:20 |
| cb400f | right ;-) | 12:20 |
| * artemma hasn't heard of Trojan angels before. You live you learn | 12:20 | |
| cb400f | wonder what type of ownership there is for the Jolla company.. but I guess they started it cuz they want to create something, not to sell it off to some crackpot company that will mess it all up | 12:23 |
| *** pcfe has quit IRC | 12:23 | |
| *** faenil has quit IRC | 12:24 | |
| pdanek | cb400f: well, that's all nice and all, but --> money changes things | 12:24 |
| artemma | money is a powerful amplifier if used right. That's why many startups look for investments | 12:24 |
| *** bef0rd_ has quit IRC | 12:24 | |
| cb400f | at least most of the system is free software, and increasingly so | 12:25 |
| pdanek | So Amazon will invest billions and leave Jolla doing their thing. | 12:25 |
| pdanek | Good scenario hum? | 12:25 |
| cb400f | jolla doesn't sell books or music :-) | 12:25 |
| * artemma doubts Jolla as a company could make money with sales less than several millions a year at least. Try reaching that without going in bed with some big operator | 12:25 | |
| pdanek | cb400f: But Amazon does. And Amazon lacks their own mobile platform. | 12:26 |
| artemma | If I was running Amazon's phone business. Why would I go for Jolla? You will need to build a lot of stuff from scratch. More that for the Amazon's current Android fork | 12:26 |
| artemma | and developing sailfish further on Amazon's own.. what's the difference from developing further a current amazon's fork of android? | 12:27 |
| pdanek | Maybe they don't want Android. | 12:27 |
| pdanek | Why Samsung is building Tizen. | 12:27 |
| artemma | plus Android is proven to be at least ok for tablets (important for amazon), while for sailfish it's still a theory | 12:27 |
| pdanek | Not just tablets, Amazon is going into phone industry. | 12:28 |
| pdanek | So many rumors out there that it's almost official that Amazon will soon release their phone. | 12:28 |
| artemma | Samsung managed to use Tizen as a very clever threat to get special agreement with Google over android. Not sure if tizen will ever be big in phones after it. Smartwatches and tvs - maybe | 12:28 |
| pdanek | artemma: I never thougt of that! | 12:29 |
| pdanek | so Tizen is just negotiation project, kind of | 12:29 |
| artemma | well, it became that after being delayed for over a year | 12:29 |
| artemma | rumors tell samsung isn't very good with sw quality | 12:29 |
| cb400f | I wonder how the USD 5-15 per android device that Samsung is paying to MS affects things | 12:29 |
| pdanek | Amazon has scheduled a "launch event" for June 18 in Seattle, where it is expected to introduce its first smartphone. | 12:30 |
| pdanek | 4 more days and world will change | 12:30 |
| pdanek | Amazon 1st smartphone, running Sailfish OS! | 12:30 |
| artemma | But then it's part of samsung DNA to release phones on every platform there is, even if just one phone just in case. So they might decide to release one sailfish device too :) | 12:31 |
| pdanek | Wait.... | 12:32 |
| pdanek | those patents | 12:32 |
| pdanek | that M$ uses against Android to profit | 12:32 |
| pdanek | are they known? | 12:32 |
| pdanek | Or most of it is undisclosed? | 12:32 |
| cb400f | I don't think many details are publicly known.. though, at least Barnes & Noble took the bastards to court, so there should be some details at least from that case | 12:34 |
| cb400f | of course in the end they settled out of court too :-/ | 12:34 |
| *** aupo has quit IRC | 12:34 | |
| *** rubdos has quit IRC | 12:34 | |
| cb400f | prolly saving them tons of money, to actually call the MS bluff | 12:34 |
| pdanek | Maybe Android was created by Bill Gates during 1 weekend and given to Google as a Christmas gift. | 12:35 |
| pdanek | And everything else you know is camouflage. | 12:35 |
| artemma | MS lawyers eat mid-size companies for breakfast since 1980s.. | 12:35 |
| pdanek | Maybe everything we know is lie. | 12:36 |
| *** faenil has joined #jollamobile | 12:37 | |
| *** pat_o has joined #jollamobile | 12:38 | |
| pdanek | Maybe we live in Matrix, created by multi-trillion company called Jolla. Earth is mostly destroyed and we, Sailors, only have a chance to ever wake up. | 12:39 |
| pdanek | Or... maybe I'm a fish. o.O | 12:39 |
| *** phaeron has quit IRC | 12:42 | |
| *** BeholdMyGlory has joined #jollamobile | 12:42 | |
| *** pat_o_ has joined #jollamobile | 12:42 | |
| *** pat_o has quit IRC | 12:42 | |
| *** petrisi has joined #jollamobile | 12:44 | |
| *** pat_o has joined #jollamobile | 12:44 | |
| pdanek | Also, I thought HTC Android qwerty models were selling quite well, right? | 12:45 |
| pdanek | I saw them everywhere. | 12:45 |
| pdanek | So why would they stop making QWERTY phones? | 12:45 |
| pdanek | If they were selling well? | 12:45 |
| *** pat_o_ has quit IRC | 12:46 | |
| *** aupo has joined #jollamobile | 12:47 | |
| cb400f | that'll be good for Jolla once a good qwerty other half becomes available :-) | 12:47 |
| pdanek | Once good qwerty other half becomes available, we will have Jolla 2. | 12:48 |
| pdanek | And who knows what Jolla 2 will change. | 12:48 |
| pdanek | Maybe no OH anymore. | 12:48 |
| pdanek | Or at least different size, so not compatible with Jolla OH. | 12:48 |
| *** pat_o_ has joined #jollamobile | 12:50 | |
| *** Lipevakala has quit IRC | 12:50 | |
| *** pat_o has quit IRC | 12:52 | |
| *** pat_o has joined #jollamobile | 12:52 | |
| *** faenil has quit IRC | 12:53 | |
| ShadowJK | Is anyone making "good qwerty other half"? | 12:54 |
| *** pat_o_ has quit IRC | 12:54 | |
| *** pdanek has quit IRC | 12:54 | |
| artemma | IMHO, Jolla carries Nokia's idea of operator-oriented customization. Then otherhalves are primarily a thing for operators to instantly customize phones without expensive whole phone build and testing | 12:55 |
| artemma | and a bit for community to have fun :) | 12:55 |
| *** raignarok has quit IRC | 12:56 | |
| *** Guest32358 has quit IRC | 12:58 | |
| *** Guest32358 has joined #jollamobile | 12:58 | |
| *** Guest32358 is now known as FIQ | 12:58 | |
| *** pat_o has quit IRC | 12:58 | |
| *** pat_o has joined #jollamobile | 12:59 | |
| *** raignarok has joined #jollamobile | 13:00 | |
| *** pat_o has quit IRC | 13:00 | |
| *** pat_o has joined #jollamobile | 13:01 | |
| *** pat_o_ has joined #jollamobile | 13:03 | |
| *** pat_o has quit IRC | 13:06 | |
| *** dunp has quit IRC | 13:06 | |
| *** dunp has joined #jollamobile | 13:09 | |
| *** tehdely has quit IRC | 13:14 | |
| *** tehdely has joined #jollamobile | 13:14 | |
| *** M4rtinK has joined #jollamobile | 13:16 | |
| *** raa70 has quit IRC | 13:26 | |
| *** pdanek has joined #jollamobile | 13:27 | |
| *** Nightmare__ has quit IRC | 13:32 | |
| *** pdanek1 has joined #jollamobile | 13:32 | |
| *** Guest57013 has quit IRC | 13:34 | |
| *** pat_o has joined #jollamobile | 13:34 | |
| *** pdanek has quit IRC | 13:35 | |
| *** gexc has joined #jollamobile | 13:35 | |
| *** pat_o_ has quit IRC | 13:36 | |
| *** pat_o_ has joined #jollamobile | 13:36 | |
| pdanek1 | I feel that after latest update, brightness of my display is lower. :/ | 13:38 |
| pdanek1 | Even if I max it. | 13:38 |
| *** pat_o has quit IRC | 13:38 | |
| *** pat_o has joined #jollamobile | 13:39 | |
| *** cloanta has joined #jollamobile | 13:40 | |
| *** pat_o_ has quit IRC | 13:41 | |
| *** pat_o_ has joined #jollamobile | 13:47 | |
| *** pat_o has quit IRC | 13:49 | |
| *** pat_o has joined #jollamobile | 13:50 | |
| *** pdanek has joined #jollamobile | 13:51 | |
| *** pat_o_ has quit IRC | 13:52 | |
| *** leinir has quit IRC | 13:52 | |
| *** pdanek1 has quit IRC | 13:53 | |
| *** Mossepo has joined #jollamobile | 13:53 | |
| *** leinir has joined #jollamobile | 13:56 | |
| *** pat_o_ has joined #jollamobile | 13:58 | |
| *** Venemo has joined #jollamobile | 13:58 | |
| *** pat_o has quit IRC | 14:00 | |
| *** pat_o has joined #jollamobile | 14:00 | |
| *** pat_o_ has quit IRC | 14:02 | |
| *** pat_o_ has joined #jollamobile | 14:02 | |
| *** faenil has joined #jollamobile | 14:03 | |
| *** pat_o has quit IRC | 14:04 | |
| ShadowJK | pdanek, there was something in the notes about brightness, but i forget the details | 14:06 |
| *** faenil has quit IRC | 14:10 | |
| *** AlmAck has quit IRC | 14:11 | |
| *** AlmAck has joined #jollamobile | 14:12 | |
| pdanek | ShadowJK: ok I figured it out. | 14:13 |
| pdanek | The "adjust automatically" function, was either fixed or works differently | 14:13 |
| pdanek | now in automatic mode, it's a lot darker | 14:13 |
| Stskeeps | artemma: i don't think operator TOH customization ever has come up, heh :) but cool idea | 14:14 |
| pdanek | when I switched to manual mode, I was able to bring brightness to original levels :) | 14:14 |
| ShadowJK | Didn't dna have a dna-pink toh, or did I just dream that up | 14:15 |
| artemma | Stskeeps: I thought that's the whole original idea for OHs :) | 14:15 |
| artemma | but that's only my speculations, certainly | 14:15 |
| sqozz | pdanek: ah, thank you.. was wondering why the max brightness on the slider equals 140 in the /sys/class/brightness file when the max possible value is 255 | 14:15 |
| Stskeeps | artemma: and while it may not seem so, we're extremely (on ui side) driven by designers | 14:15 |
| Stskeeps | i think inconsistencies happen when you rush | 14:16 |
| Stskeeps | it's been breakneck to keep things in line while developing the full ui | 14:16 |
| artemma | I know it's much easier to criticize than to create, yes | 14:16 |
| pdanek | sqozz: yes, seems when automatic mode is on, the maximum or lower or something | 14:16 |
| artemma | especially when you are in a startup. I am not happy about inconsistencies caused by me in our startup as well | 14:17 |
| Stskeeps | artemma: ah, didn't think you were criticising :) | 14:17 |
| pdanek | Jolla isn't a startup anymore, is it? | 14:17 |
| Stskeeps | good questio | 14:18 |
| Stskeeps | n | 14:18 |
| artemma | well, it's easy to shut up criticism: just show me a UI guide that tells where to put most/leadt important elements, how to organize hierarchies etc and show that Jolla apps follow it :) | 14:18 |
| DrainBamaged | Mine starts up ok :P | 14:18 |
| artemma | so far I am not even clear if it's more the Jolla way to confirm changing settings by Accepting gesture or by going Back. Jolla apps seem to use both | 14:18 |
| Stskeeps | A company may cease to be a startup as it passes various milestones,[2] such as becoming publicly traded in an IPO, or ceasing to exist as an independent entity via a merger or acquisition | 14:18 |
| Stskeeps | artemma: hmm .. sec | 14:19 |
| artemma | I've seen the current UI guide online, not nearly detailed enough to my tastes :) | 14:19 |
| Stskeeps | true | 14:19 |
| pdanek | artemma: I agree, it has confused me few times (accept vs go back) | 14:19 |
| Stskeeps | another aspect is also that we don't have down to last pixel ui specifications | 14:19 |
| artemma | but my main confusion point is main screens navigation actually | 14:20 |
| Stskeeps | artemma: ooi, what's your startup? | 14:20 |
| artemma | 6 months after starting to use jolla I am still confused trying to swipe app launcher to the side | 14:20 |
| special | artemma: part of the problem with having a UI guideline is that it's constantly evolving | 14:20 |
| artemma | N9 had a single saving gesture that saves you to familiar location from anywhere, sailfish lost that | 14:20 |
| special | like everything else on the platform | 14:21 |
| pdanek | Stskeeps: so based on the definition, Jolla is probably still startup, startup with large investments on the table | 14:21 |
| tango_ | Stskeeps: well, I would say that a startup would cease being a startup if it becomes profitable/stops relying on venture capital/stuff like that | 14:21 |
| tango_ | e.g. tesla motors isn't a startup anymore | 14:21 |
| Stskeeps | tango_: ah, so kinda like growing up | 14:21 |
| tango_ | Stskeeps: yeah, not relyingon your parents' money | 14:21 |
| artemma | I formed my opinion on it lately actually: I believe Sailfish and Jolla phine are a collection of great ideas and evolving apps. It is just in a state I'd expect from a prerelease phone | 14:21 |
| tango_ | artemma: I kind of agree | 14:21 |
| artemma | you know, something you show on a conference together with starting a developer app challenge for a coming platform | 14:22 |
| tango_ | then again, it's _obviously_ not as mature a product as android | 14:22 |
| tango_ | artemma: no, it's beyond that | 14:22 |
| tango_ | I would call it "a good first try" | 14:22 |
| sqozz | naah, for a prerelease it has way to much features and the whole system (stability and so on) works realy great | 14:22 |
| artemma | IMHO Sailfish is better than the first public android. Problem is standards raised since then | 14:22 |
| artemma | well, look at tizen announcement and app challenge start | 14:23 |
| special | a key point, I think, is that it's improving - in public - on a monthly basis | 14:23 |
| artemma | I'd dare to say they had more of both features and stability | 14:23 |
| *** Porkepix has quit IRC | 14:23 | |
| pdanek | artemma: Tizen? | 14:23 |
| * tango_ hasn't given a look at tizen in A LOT | 14:23 | |
| artemma | tizen isn't relevant after samsung's recent agreement with Google, but was relevant until then | 14:24 |
| artemma | they are still releasing at least one phone | 14:24 |
| artemma | anyway, I am pretty sure I'd run Jolla with much more poor results | 14:24 |
| artemma | doesn't stop me from wishing more though :) | 14:25 |
| tango_ | wait, there were ever tizen phones produced? | 14:26 |
| pdanek | tango_: there is 1st one, pretty good one | 14:26 |
| artemma | they launched first phone about a week ago. To go to sales during smthing like q3 in russia only | 14:26 |
| Stskeeps | that's like in forever in productization measures.. | 14:27 |
| artemma | not sure why thy do it at all after the google agreement. Maybe just because it's in Samsung dna to release a phone on any platform there is | 14:27 |
| pdanek | artemma: question is, WHY in Russia only? Is it because of the Google vs Samsung deal? | 14:27 |
| pdanek | ah | 14:27 |
| pdanek | ok, you type to ofast | 14:27 |
| pdanek | I got my answer :) | 14:27 |
| artemma | IMHO after google agreement tizen matters for devices only. Like smartwatches or tvs | 14:28 |
| artemma | maybe they don't want to loose developers already invested in tizen for phones | 14:28 |
| pdanek | artemma: but Samsung works on Tizen LONG time, so why would they throw away their long developed OS just like that? | 14:28 |
| artemma | with samsung marketing budget and this dna of releasing on any os anyway | 14:28 |
| pdanek | yes | 14:28 |
| artemma | pdanek: samsung delayed tizen heavily (like a year or two) and they did use it as a good threat when negotiating with google (me thinks) | 14:29 |
| artemma | IMHO, Tizen as a threat for google negotiations paid back way better than tizen pones could | 14:29 |
| artemma | phones* | 14:30 |
| *** phdeswer has quit IRC | 14:30 | |
| artemma | Stskeeps: that's my day job - http://www.thinglink.com | 14:30 |
| artemma | I am not a founder, one of early employees | 14:30 |
| artemma | and we work on Jolla phones too :) | 14:31 |
| pdanek | browsing half minute and I didn't get the point of web yet..... let me continue :P | 14:31 |
| artemma | actually thinking about our engineering, about 70% of our engineers use Jolla as a day phone :) | 14:31 |
| pdanek | ok got it | 14:32 |
| pdanek | :D | 14:32 |
| artemma | pdanek: we are actually rebuilding front page now for the very same reason - it should be way more clear for the first time visitors | 14:32 |
| *** Froberg has quit IRC | 14:32 | |
| pdanek | yea, it's a bit confusing | 14:32 |
| *** pat_o has joined #jollamobile | 14:33 | |
| Stskeeps | artemma: ah, looks cool | 14:33 |
| *** pat_o_ has quit IRC | 14:33 | |
| artemma | Stskeeps: thx | 14:34 |
| pdanek | artemma: 70% of engineers use Jolla, yet only iOS and Android apps available :P -> http://www.thinglink.com/app/ | 14:35 |
| artemma | Since I care about mobile part of our website, our iOS and Android apps and have Sailfish apps as my hobby (And starting with android app right now) I am sorta able to observe differences between Apple, Google and Jolla app developer worlds quite a lot | 14:35 |
| *** pat_o_ has joined #jollamobile | 14:35 | |
| pdanek | But I guess that's why you're here today, Sailfish app in works | 14:36 |
| artemma | pdanek: you are very correct, we care about our users | 14:36 |
| artemma | sorry to say, but would you care to tell a reason why we'd invest into app for Sailfish? :/ | 14:36 |
| artemma | user base, money, marketing, Jolla sponsorship? | 14:37 |
| * Stskeeps nods | 14:37 | |
| pdanek | Sure, no reason for management. I agree. | 14:37 |
| Stskeeps | especially if a android app already works fine | 14:37 |
| artemma | Just as Jolla we are a startup and have to run fast just to stay afloat | 14:37 |
| *** pat_o has quit IRC | 14:37 | |
| artemma | and then very signicant part of our user base is education and US. And especially US education. Not the primary jolla markets | 14:38 |
| artemma | of our *app* user base | 14:38 |
| pdanek | Ou, you're Finnish company! | 14:38 |
| pdanek | That's why you use Jolla phones. :D | 14:39 |
| pdanek | It was strange to me that 70% of engineers in some company uses Jolla phones. | 14:39 |
| artemma | Heh, I'd love to concentrate on Jolla apps and maybe forma small consultancy around it, but so far it doesn't seem to be possible | 14:39 |
| artemma | pdanek: our CTO was one of the guys to bring NFC to Nokia :) | 14:40 |
| artemma | and he had some code of his orbiting Earth as well - not quite usual for Finnish engineers :) | 14:40 |
| * artemma was managing Nokia wide tool for user interface building and maintenance | 14:41 | |
| artemma | ..killed by Elop together with the whole platform | 14:41 |
| *** Froberg has joined #jollamobile | 14:41 | |
| tango_ | artemma: write a firefox os app, it would run anywhere except for iOS 8-D | 14:42 |
| tango_ | seriously though, has anyone tried firefox os apps on the jolla? | 14:42 |
| *** pat_o has joined #jollamobile | 14:43 | |
| artemma | tango_: I really love Qt and QML.. if not that, I'd go for native iOS or Android. Starting with an Android app now actually | 14:43 |
| pdanek | Why didn't Nokia at least give a chance to MeeGo as side-project? (as Maemo always was in Nokia history) | 14:43 |
| pdanek | N9 was selling well, wasn't it? | 14:43 |
| artemma | let's not start on that again :) | 14:44 |
| tango_ | pdanek: that's the problem | 14:44 |
| pdanek | I understand their WP strategy, but such a company, why not to keep their MeeGo resources and have a side project that can potentially pay for itself? | 14:44 |
| tango_ | pdanek: it was selling too well | 14:44 |
| artemma | I'd say N9 wasn't fitting in the Nokia strategy back them | 14:44 |
| tango_ | (especially considering how they crippled the market) | 14:44 |
| MSameer | all what's happen was meant to happen | 14:44 |
| MSameer | it was endorsed by the board | 14:44 |
| pdanek | hm | 14:45 |
| *** pat_o_ has quit IRC | 14:45 | |
| MSameer | otherwise the board would have kicked elop out (IMHO) | 14:45 |
| MSameer | why did they want that? I don't know | 14:45 |
| * artemma also thinks that board was doing it consciously for some strange and possibly unlawful reason | 14:45 | |
| pdanek | hm | 14:46 |
| pdanek | Because Nokia N9 was great, mature phone. | 14:46 |
| Stskeeps | i have a hunch which may be whatever they were doing were sane, but for now i'll keep that theory to myself | 14:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:46 |
| Stskeeps | but is surrounded around the fact that mobile phone market is crashing, hard | 14:46 |
| MSameer | Stskeeps: we will see in a few years | 14:46 |
| * artemma looks at his Java code and wants to see Qt there | 14:46 | |
| pdanek | Stskeeps: why crashing? don't keep it for youself! we're family here :D | 14:47 |
| artemma | anybody here with rumors abt Jolla paid apps start? or at least some stats about how much my apps are actually used? | 14:47 |
| MSameer | pdanek: until it hits headlines and journalists replace Stskeeps with jolla :p | 14:47 |
| pdanek | :D | 14:48 |
| *** Nichope has quit IRC | 14:48 | |
| *** Nichope has joined #jollamobile | 14:48 | |
| pdanek | Stskeeps: "but is surrounded around the fact that mobile phone market is crashing, hard" -> why crashing? :O I thought it has never beem better than now | 14:50 |
| *** pat_o_ has joined #jollamobile | 14:51 | |
| *** pat_o has quit IRC | 14:53 | |
| *** pat_o has joined #jollamobile | 14:59 | |
| pdanek | Nokia Asha --> Is it just me, or the icons look like icons on Harmattan? | 15:01 |
| Stskeeps | it certainly has inspiration from it | 15:01 |
| Stskeeps | the small ones are practically tiny non-linux n9s | 15:02 |
| *** pat_o_ has quit IRC | 15:02 | |
| Stskeeps | often been tempted to get one | 15:02 |
| pdanek | hehe | 15:02 |
| *** artemma is now known as artem | 15:03 | |
| *** artem is now known as artemm | 15:03 | |
| *** artemm is now known as artemma | 15:03 | |
| *** artemma is now known as artemfinland | 15:05 | |
| *** artemfinland is now known as artemma | 15:07 | |
| *** Swan_Z has joined #jollamobile | 15:12 | |
| pdanek | For those who live in Finland: Is this "hate" against Elop only within Maemo/MeeGo/Sailfish community, or also majority of Finnish people does not accept him? | 15:13 |
| ShadowJK | It also extends to other "publicly known" CEOs of large companies that have sacked people in recent memory | 15:15 |
| *** clau2 has joined #jollamobile | 15:16 | |
| *** pdanek has quit IRC | 15:18 | |
| *** pdanek1 has joined #jollamobile | 15:18 | |
| *** Adityab has quit IRC | 15:18 | |
| tango_ | I think "sacked people" is quite the understatement for what elop did to nokia | 15:18 |
| pp | at least he made msft spend 10 billion or whatnot | 15:19 |
| Aard | pdanek1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s01TgdNtID8 | 15:19 |
| ShadowJK | And the other thing is that people don't appreciate how much of the demise was caused by the previous management :-) | 15:19 |
| Aard | ShadowJK: things were pretty fucked up, but still salvagable. so he deserves some credit for properly sinking it in impressingly short time | 15:21 |
| pdanek1 | Aard: cool video! | 15:21 |
| *** louisdk has joined #jollamobile | 15:24 | |
| *** wwiesel has joined #jollamobile | 15:25 | |
| MSameer | i can say that the project that was going to be released after harmattan was going to suffer | 15:26 |
| Aard | MSameer: I disagree there | 15:26 |
| *** pat_o_ has joined #jollamobile | 15:27 | |
| MSameer | Aard: in what sense? I heard a lot but I have not touched yet | 15:27 |
| MSameer | I was supposed to but it did not happen | 15:27 |
| louisdk | Lately I have to start ssh manually by running "systemctl start sshd.service" as root after enabling dev mode. It strangely fails to start on its own. | 15:27 |
| MSameer | and the embedded phones project that got axed too was going to be ****** up | 15:27 |
| MSameer | partially because of the management and partially because of some other people | 15:27 |
| pdanek1 | hm | 15:28 |
| Aard | MSameer: there was a big disconnectedness between management and what actually happened | 15:28 |
| Aard | what actually happened was not that bad | 15:28 |
| *** pat_o has quit IRC | 15:29 | |
| pdanek1 | How did it look from insider point of you, those of you who worked inside of Nokia? Did you just receive an email that your project is closed? Or you have been gradually informed of changes and negotiated? | 15:29 |
| pp | a friend resigned, the SAP application worked perfectly (one of the few existing ones) and had a field for reason: "Do not believe in new strategy" :-) | 15:34 |
| ShadowJK | pdanek1, oh another thing, while in maemo/meego/sailfish commiunity, people typically blame management, the wider public usually say that nokia engineers can't make anything that isn't incredible overcomplicated and hard to use :-) | 15:34 |
| *** vode has joined #jollamobile | 15:35 | |
| pdanek1 | Nokia N9 hard to use? | 15:35 |
| pdanek1 | I thought it's one of easiest to use smartphones ever. | 15:35 |
| ShadowJK | wider public does not know N9 exists | 15:36 |
| pdanek1 | I think MeeGo was in really good position against Android. Now we have many new platforms trying to pierce the market, Nokia N9 did that couple years ago. | 15:36 |
| pdanek1 | hm | 15:36 |
| *** zacce has quit IRC | 15:37 | |
| ShadowJK | And by that time, "hard to use" meant things like having working facebook,instagram,twitter,whatsapp,shazam clients that didn't require a PhD in OviStore to install | 15:38 |
| pdanek1 | OviStore was fail. | 15:38 |
| pdanek1 | I agree. | 15:38 |
| pdanek1 | At least on Nokia N900. | 15:39 |
| clau2 | how many n9s were sold back in the day? | 15:40 |
| ShadowJK | The amusing thing is, that at one point analysts all said that nokia would be strong in app stores, because nokia had figured out payments and such. In reality it was quite a huge pain to actually pay for anything on ovi store :-) | 15:40 |
| clau2 | I remember reading it was selling much better than the first two lumia models from nokia | 15:40 |
| artemma | hey, stackoverflow helped again! :) | 15:40 |
| artemma | sorry, wrong window | 15:40 |
| MSameer | pdanek1: we all heard it. The day following the famous burning platform elop threw his bomb IIRC | 15:40 |
| pp | Buying stuff for the n9 worked quite well | 15:40 |
| MSameer | Aard: that is also true | 15:40 |
| clau2 | artemma: stackoverflow always helps, that's a given | 15:41 |
| MSameer | anyway, what happened has happened. life goes on | 15:41 |
| pdanek1 | No! I will actually never stop thinking where could have Nokia been now. :D | 15:42 |
| *** faenil has joined #jollamobile | 15:42 | |
| pdanek1 | I think they had amazing opportunity. | 15:42 |
| clau2 | artemma: well, not always: http://xkcd.com/979/ | 15:42 |
| artemma | clau2: so true feeling | 15:43 |
| *** RoKenn has joined #jollamobile | 15:43 | |
| faenil | yeah xD | 15:43 |
| artemma | Somehow I tend to arrive into these xkcd situations more often when doing tricky Qt stuff :) | 15:43 |
| Aard | pdanek1: the only thing that'd be better compared to jolla would be having lot's of money, so you don't have to work with limited resources | 15:43 |
| * artemma recalls trying to create a skype video calling device with qt/qml and x11 and skype libraries | 15:44 | |
| Aard | other than that we're now a lot more flexible, and don't have to do crazy stuff for political reasons | 15:44 |
| Aard | some bits from harmattan were due to political fights between different teams | 15:44 |
| clau2 | darn, jolla just got cheaper. after I bought two of them. :( | 15:45 |
| clau2 | the second jolla model I'll buy only after the third one is launched. | 15:46 |
| clau2 | but I do hope the new price will help increase the sales. | 15:48 |
| pdanek1 | Aard: another difference is, that you don't have any HW device selling, Nokia had | 15:49 |
| pdanek1 | Jolla device is not selling, not in my book. It's like Google Nexus, reference device. | 15:49 |
| Aard | pdanek1: well, that's related to "having lots of cash". nokia still made huge money with all the cheap phones | 15:50 |
| clau2 | well, nokia afforded some publicity too | 15:51 |
| clau2 | I remember that in Ronania N9 was pretty well promoted | 15:51 |
| Aard | and I'm quite sad about the camera program. I'm nowadays mostly carrying a jolla and a pureview 808. the operating system there is shit, completely useless as a phone, but it's a great compact camera | 15:51 |
| clau2 | Romania* | 15:51 |
| *** faenil has quit IRC | 15:52 | |
| clau2 | are there any Jolla commercials, at least in Finland? | 15:52 |
| clau2 | I've seen some Firefox ones recently | 15:53 |
| *** master_o1_master has joined #jollamobile | 15:53 | |
| pdanek1 | Yea, it's good point. Jolla doesn't have any marketing, yet it sells a little bit. | 15:54 |
| pdanek1 | But I guess that Jolla is really waiting to get interest of bigger HW manufacturer. | 15:54 |
| pdanek1 | They have never intended to sell devices. | 15:55 |
| clau2 | well, they'd atttact attention much easier with a few million devices out there :) | 15:55 |
| clau2 | I hope they'll consider better marketing now that the OS is getting better. | 15:56 |
| pdanek1 | I see. | 15:56 |
| *** master_of_master has quit IRC | 15:57 | |
| *** Swan_Z has quit IRC | 15:59 | |
| clau2 | but I see the point in jolla hw being the reference. | 16:02 |
| *** Penthotal has quit IRC | 16:02 | |
| *** faenil has joined #jollamobile | 16:04 | |
| *** RoKenn has quit IRC | 16:05 | |
| *** Hartzi has quit IRC | 16:06 | |
| artemma | IIRC old Jolla communication, Jolla actually wanted to just supply OS to HW manufacturers | 16:08 |
| artemma | but I guess it's difficult to sell without a working reference device | 16:08 |
| pdanek1 | I see. | 16:08 |
| *** sclukey has joined #jollamobile | 16:12 | |
| pdanek1 | Btw, if you have seen recent Jolla review by phonedogs.com, the guy said that Sailfish experience feels closest to BlackBerry 10 from all platforms | 16:12 |
| artemma | actually it does | 16:14 |
| * artemma looks at his BB10 device on the table | 16:14 | |
| artemma | except that BB10 is more consistent, but more ugly :) | 16:14 |
| artemma | and way more difficult to code for | 16:14 |
| clau2 | and bb10 feels closest to n9 :) | 16:14 |
| pdanek1 | artemma: ugly? I don't find it ugly, hmm... | 16:15 |
| *** Porkepix has joined #jollamobile | 16:15 | |
| artemma | well, I find sailfish more pretty | 16:15 |
| artemma | I needed to say something why I am not using bb10 after all :) | 16:15 |
| pdanek1 | I think BB10 achieves more productivity with their gestures. | 16:16 |
| pdanek1 | at the current moment of course | 16:16 |
| clau2 | I've seen a z10 and a q10 (?), both nice devices. also bb10 is quite nice. if it weren't for jolla, I would have bought a z10 probably | 16:16 |
| artemma | My BB10-based Z10 is not very fast device (you might have noticed I am performance-sensitive) + not many good apps + to me they messed up with universaliness: universal hub beeps on too many messages and Dropbox tries to sync all 10GB to poor phone storage | 16:17 |
| artemma | but BB10 single saving gesture is very good. You always flick from the bottom and it gets you to the same familiar state. I wish Jolla had single saving gesture like that | 16:18 |
| faenil | artemma, come on, bb10 is for sure more performant than sailfish | 16:18 |
| artemma | faenil: not in my experience. apps seem to start faster on Jolla than on Z10 | 16:18 |
| clau2 | I would think that bb10 being qnx it's quite fast | 16:19 |
| artemma | maybe newer BB10 devices are faster | 16:19 |
| faenil | :/ | 16:19 |
| pdanek1 | artemma: Jolla has any apps? | 16:19 |
| artemma | Z10 doesn't get frozen as often as Jolla though | 16:19 |
| faenil | clau2, it is...and it's a lot smoother than sailfish at the moment | 16:19 |
| artemma | pdanek1: I have different motivation for Jolla :) | 16:19 |
| faenil | I really hope Qt5.2 (and the optimizations that it enabled) will fix that :/ | 16:20 |
| artemma | It's the only device where I can use my favorite Qt/QML in full and its UX is not that bad and might improve | 16:20 |
| MSameer | i hope i could try Z10 | 16:20 |
| MSameer | never seen it | 16:20 |
| artemma | MSameer: are you in Helsinki? I can lend Z10 for weeks to you | 16:20 |
| MSameer | weeks :D | 16:20 |
| * artemma would have sold it if anyone's interested | 16:20 | |
| clau2 | I bought into jolla for two reasons : continuity from n9 and openness. | 16:20 |
| MSameer | artemma: thanks for the offer. I think I got my answer already :) | 16:21 |
| pdanek1 | I bought Jolla hoping it will be true N900 successor to me. | 16:21 |
| artemma | clau2: so far I can access way more Android OS internals than Jolla internals :) | 16:21 |
| * MSameer is still stuck with N9 :/ | 16:21 | |
| pdanek1 | Jolla will be good in year or two. | 16:22 |
| artemma | so for app developer (delivering to official channels), other OSes are way more open than Sailfish for now | 16:22 |
| artemma | Sailfish is more open in the sense that you can contact the OS developers right here though :) | 16:22 |
| pdanek1 | artemma: why BB10 > way more difficult to code for? Cascades aren't as good? | 16:23 |
| artemma | Cascades are just terrible when it comes to QML. Half-done raw software | 16:23 |
| artemma | and they basically created there own QML | 16:24 |
| artemma | half-created | 16:24 |
| artemma | you are not able to mix pure QML and cascades qml, so you either have to paint all the buttons yourself or use half-baked Cascades QML | 16:24 |
| artemma | or use pure C++ | 16:25 |
| pdanek1 | http://developer.blackberry.com/native/documentation/cascades/dev/integrating_cpp_qml/ | 16:25 |
| * artemma actually shipped one small QML app of his to BlackBerry world | 16:25 | |
| pdanek1 | https://sailfishos.org/community.html -> someone should update "Upcoming events" section :) | 16:29 |
| *** Porkepix has quit IRC | 16:29 | |
| *** pdanek has joined #jollamobile | 16:34 | |
| faenil | cybette, ^ | 16:34 |
| *** pdanek1 has quit IRC | 16:37 | |
| *** clau2 has quit IRC | 16:40 | |
| *** clau2 has joined #jollamobile | 16:42 | |
| *** pdanek1 has joined #jollamobile | 16:44 | |
| *** parasemic has quit IRC | 16:45 | |
| *** pdanek has quit IRC | 16:46 | |
| *** attah has joined #jollamobile | 16:48 | |
| *** Lipevakala has joined #jollamobile | 16:49 | |
| *** bef0rd has joined #jollamobile | 16:50 | |
| *** slate has quit IRC | 16:57 | |
| *** Nekron_ has joined #jollamobile | 16:57 | |
| *** datagutt has quit IRC | 17:02 | |
| *** phinaliumz has quit IRC | 17:03 | |
| *** plfiorini has quit IRC | 17:04 | |
| *** slate has joined #jollamobile | 17:11 | |
| *** teksu__ has joined #jollamobile | 17:11 | |
| *** teksu_ has quit IRC | 17:14 | |
| *** Sailor6715_ has quit IRC | 17:15 | |
| *** Sequenced has joined #jollamobile | 17:32 | |
| *** Lipevakala has quit IRC | 17:32 | |
| *** Sequenced_ has quit IRC | 17:35 | |
| *** jjarven has quit IRC | 17:38 | |
| *** pat_o_ has quit IRC | 17:38 | |
| *** pat_o_ has joined #jollamobile | 17:38 | |
| *** plfiorini has joined #jollamobile | 17:39 | |
| *** Lipevakala has joined #jollamobile | 17:43 | |
| *** Nichope has quit IRC | 17:48 | |
| *** Nichope has joined #jollamobile | 17:49 | |
| *** phaeron has joined #jollamobile | 17:50 | |
| *** Lipevakala has quit IRC | 17:55 | |
| *** pdanek has joined #jollamobile | 17:55 | |
| *** pdanek1 has quit IRC | 17:55 | |
| *** Nichope has quit IRC | 17:57 | |
| *** vesurivs has quit IRC | 17:57 | |
| *** jjarven has joined #jollamobile | 17:58 | |
| *** phaeron has quit IRC | 18:04 | |
| *** phdeswer has joined #jollamobile | 18:08 | |
| *** raa70 has joined #jollamobile | 18:10 | |
| *** zacce has joined #jollamobile | 18:13 | |
| *** ahjolinna has quit IRC | 18:15 | |
| kimmoli | yes, its alive! https://twitter.com/LiKimmo/status/477874112095080448/photo/1 -- my jolla is now "triple-core" | 18:15 |
| Stskeeps | kimmoli: woo | 18:16 |
| *** Sailor6715_ has joined #jollamobile | 18:16 | |
| Stskeeps | now let's move all the basic ui functions to stm32 ;) | 18:16 |
| AlmAck | very interseting kimmoli | 18:16 |
| *** faenil has quit IRC | 18:16 | |
| AlmAck | kimmoli: so via I2C you blink the LED's on the board though the uC? | 18:18 |
| AlmAck | do you have some sensors on your board? | 18:19 |
| *** wwiesel has quit IRC | 18:20 | |
| kimmoli | AlmAck: no, there is small code on the uC which blinks leds, i just got the stm32 flash programmed over i2c. | 18:23 |
| *** Nightmare__ has joined #jollamobile | 18:24 | |
| AlmAck | ah ok, interesting anyway so you can update the cover with the jolla SW | 18:24 |
| kimmoli | yep | 18:25 |
| kimmoli | no need to attach external programmers when updating fw | 18:25 |
| *** gexc has quit IRC | 18:26 | |
| AlmAck | kimmoli: you developed a dedicated board, isn't' it? you foreseen some external HW/sensors/IO? | 18:28 |
| kimmoli | yep, this one is for eink (two touch buttons only) | 18:29 |
| *** faenil has joined #jollamobile | 18:29 | |
| kimmoli | brb | 18:30 |
| AlmAck | nice to see this kind of projects :-) I would like to do something in the future | 18:31 |
| attah | looking good there kimmoli! | 18:34 |
| attah | So.. is 1.0.7.18 the connman hotfix? | 18:40 |
| *** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 18:40 | |
| Nicd- | yes | 18:41 |
| attah | ok, thanks :) | 18:41 |
| *** Sail0r has joined #jollamobile | 18:42 | |
| *** faenil has quit IRC | 18:44 | |
| *** ndvl has quit IRC | 18:56 | |
| sledges | ballock: ggabriel vgrade DrainBamaged lbt alterego : we got Hackspace \o/ https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/london-hack-space/TLgo3OO-AiU | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | cool, good work | 19:05 |
| *** jmlich has joined #jollamobile | 19:09 | |
| *** jmlich has quit IRC | 19:10 | |
| *** _Razor_ has quit IRC | 19:10 | |
| ballock | sledges: awesome :) | 19:12 |
| *** phaeron has joined #jollamobile | 19:12 | |
| attah | hmm.. seems highly likely that one can send splash-sms with a jolla... | 19:21 |
| special | 'splash-sms'? | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | class 0 or how was it? | 19:21 |
| attah | reading up on the details now.. but it seems to take a hand-coded pdu | 19:22 |
| special | you'd probably have to modify ofono. | 19:23 |
| attah | umm, if you ever texted your operator to se your prepaid balance and it magically shows up on screen.. that is splash-sms | 19:23 |
| special | and if your operator is decent they'll block outgoing class 0 sms, but | 19:23 |
| attah | probably.. | 19:23 |
| *** Porkepix has joined #jollamobile | 19:26 | |
| attah | turns out i'm using the wrong term :) either way, not sure if i want to try | 19:26 |
| *** _Razor_ has joined #jollamobile | 19:27 | |
| *** wwiesel has joined #jollamobile | 19:28 | |
| *** furikku has quit IRC | 19:30 | |
| *** Porkepix has quit IRC | 19:30 | |
| *** Porkepix_ has joined #jollamobile | 19:30 | |
| *** vode has quit IRC | 19:32 | |
| pdanek | Why Android does implement gestures? | 19:32 |
| pdanek | What is stopping them? | 19:33 |
| pdanek | Google can just blink an eye and they have gestures. | 19:33 |
| pdanek | does -> doesn't | 19:33 |
| M4rtinK | resistive screen support ? | 19:34 |
| *** Porkepix has joined #jollamobile | 19:34 | |
| pdanek | hmmmmm | 19:34 |
| M4rtinK | or crappy digitizers in cheap devices ? | 19:34 |
| *** Porkepix_ has quit IRC | 19:35 | |
| pdanek | So maybe Google should split Android to 2? | 19:36 |
| M4rtinK | and maybe as the IIRC have the same GUI on phones and tablets ? | 19:36 |
| pdanek | current version and premier version for high end devices? | 19:36 |
| pdanek | to move the innovation a bit? | 19:36 |
| M4rtinK | well, they "won" and can slack off :) | 19:36 |
| *** ortylp has joined #jollamobile | 19:36 | |
| M4rtinK | Windows ME style! :) | 19:36 |
| pdanek | hehe | 19:37 |
| pdanek | I was just browsing Google Play on my Jolla 5 min. ago, that's how the question came to my mind, why.... why so uneffective when 100-people company can make it much better | 19:38 |
| M4rtinK | well, you have the hundreds of millions of people using the current interface | 19:39 |
| M4rtinK | and you would need to teach them the getures | 19:39 |
| M4rtinK | and even then it would take some times until the new version propagates | 19:40 |
| M4rtinK | but yeah, doable | 19:40 |
| pdanek | I mean. Google seems to be always the one who wants innovate | 19:40 |
| pdanek | Especially how people should interact with devices. | 19:40 |
| pdanek | Look on their projects | 19:40 |
| pdanek | Glass, Tango, voice controls and all that | 19:41 |
| pdanek | So why not to move forward also UI control. :) | 19:41 |
| ShadowJK | They're probably looking too far ahead to see what can be done today | 19:42 |
| pdanek | Yea, I guess they're too much visionaries. | 19:43 |
| pdanek | And "Android phone" is not in their future vision. | 19:43 |
| pdanek | It's just a cash cow for now. | 19:43 |
| pdanek | But I accept that. There should be radical innovation in terms of mobile hardware. | 19:44 |
| *** louisdk has quit IRC | 19:45 | |
| pdanek | Google Glass is kind of good thing to make people think about our possibilities. | 19:45 |
| pdanek | All those privacy issues with it can be sorted out. | 19:45 |
| Nicd- | NSA Glass | 19:45 |
| pdanek | Well, Google even made their own Chrome addon for PGP encryption in Gmail. | 19:46 |
| pdanek | Called end-to-end. | 19:46 |
| pdanek | Which goes against their ad targeting. | 19:47 |
| M4rtinK | I really don!t like how Google took the perfectly fine concept of augmented reality | 19:47 |
| M4rtinK | and made an implementation that (rightfully!) makes many people actively hostile against AR | 19:48 |
| M4rtinK | as a whole | 19:48 |
| pdanek | M4rtinK: Where was the concept of augmented reality 3 years ago? On paper, in labs... | 19:48 |
| pdanek | What we have now? | 19:48 |
| pdanek | Dozens of AR glass makers. | 19:48 |
| pdanek | Started by Google. | 19:48 |
| pdanek | Be thankful for that. :) | 19:48 |
| pdanek | Real AR projects out there now. :) | 19:48 |
| M4rtinK | people ready to punch someone who looks like he is wearing anything close to Google Glass :) | 19:48 |
| pdanek | Do you punch people who walk around you with smartphone in front of them? | 19:49 |
| pdanek | How do you know they're not filming? | 19:49 |
| pdanek | But people would punch them 50 years ago. | 19:49 |
| pdanek | It's all about what you're used to. | 19:49 |
| M4rtinK | sure, but there is till a problem that even if your gear is Google free and under your control, you can still encounter people expecting the Google Glass spy-fest | 19:50 |
| pdanek | I'm very much privacy-aware myself, but majority of people will adapt VERY quickly. | 19:50 |
| M4rtinK | well, it is a big difference where the footage ends | 19:50 |
| pdanek | :) | 19:50 |
| pdanek | I think nobody can stop this. | 19:50 |
| M4rtinK | actually I see smartphones as a sort of external memory | 19:50 |
| pdanek | People will be regularly wearing such glass-like products in 10+ years. | 19:51 |
| pdanek | And nobody will care. | 19:51 |
| M4rtinK | sure, why not | 19:51 |
| pdanek | Except us maybe. | 19:51 |
| pdanek | :) | 19:51 |
| pdanek | Yea, smartphones will be the brain. | 19:51 |
| M4rtinK | as long as they don!t share the footage they film with Google or other large data mining operation by default | 19:51 |
| pdanek | Other devices will be the ones you will interact with, in the future. | 19:51 |
| pdanek | Connected to smartphone. | 19:52 |
| M4rtinK | I don!t have an issue with it | 19:52 |
| *** FlameReaper-PC has quit IRC | 19:52 | |
| pdanek | Ok, let's see on I/O in few days. | 19:53 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, the Japanese already made an animated series about how it might look like once AR is mainstream :) | 19:53 |
| M4rtinK | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denn%C5%8D_Coil | 19:53 |
| pdanek | Japan is great in technology innovation, except that their style is usually unacceptable by rest of the world taste. | 19:54 |
| Nicd- | pixar also imagined that, M4rtinK: http://jacobhochhalter.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/wall-e.jpg | 19:55 |
| Nicd- | ;) | 19:55 |
| M4rtinK | Nicd-: thats's not AR, that's Facebook :P | 19:56 |
| Nicd- | well, it had augmented their reality, they didn't even know they had a pool | 19:57 |
| Nicd- | or that they could walk :P | 19:57 |
| *** clau2 has quit IRC | 19:57 | |
| M4rtinK | by that definition you can also define alcohol as AR :) | 19:58 |
| Nicd- | well it's true | 19:58 |
| ggabriel | o/ | 19:59 |
| ggabriel | and: lpt: firewall google ip addresses at home :P | 19:59 |
| *** ndvl has joined #jollamobile | 20:00 | |
| *** jesperC has joined #jollamobile | 20:07 | |
| *** motalb has quit IRC | 20:10 | |
| *** motalc has quit IRC | 20:11 | |
| *** motalc has joined #jollamobile | 20:15 | |
| *** wwiesel_ has joined #jollamobile | 20:15 | |
| *** wwiesel_ has quit IRC | 20:17 | |
| *** wwiesel has quit IRC | 20:18 | |
| *** wwiesel_ has joined #jollamobile | 20:18 | |
| flux | in the meanwhile, someone should make an app that records 24/7 and feed the data to google/nsa to do voice recognition. realtime script of your life! | 20:18 |
| flux | in addition it could scan for wlan/bluetooth devices in the neighbourhood and collaboratively build a map of all people's locations. | 20:19 |
| *** wwiesel_ has quit IRC | 20:19 | |
| *** wwiesel_ has joined #jollamobile | 20:19 | |
| flux | I think this is already doable and probably more scary than google glasses ;) | 20:20 |
| *** motalb has joined #jollamobile | 20:22 | |
| *** Venemo has quit IRC | 20:25 | |
| pdanek | Watch a new movie: Her. | 20:26 |
| *** raa70 has quit IRC | 20:26 | |
| ShadowJK | flux, google already did the scan for wlan/bt | 20:26 |
| ShadowJK | With autoconnect to open wifi (or wep?) to scan the lan | 20:27 |
| Stskeeps | pdanek: watched it | 20:27 |
| flux | shadowjk, but I don't think it tries to scan for other clients | 20:27 |
| flux | or? | 20:27 |
| ShadowJK | hm? | 20:28 |
| ShadowJK | their streetview cars did it | 20:28 |
| flux | right, it was that they captured some pieces of traffic, getting client addresses in it as well | 20:28 |
| flux | but that's very much limited compared to all mobile phones doing it.. | 20:28 |
| *** raa70 has joined #jollamobile | 20:29 | |
| Nightmare__ | i thought all phones using gmaps are reporting back active wlan macs and gps location to improve fast location fix | 20:29 |
| M4rtinK | well, Android phones do that at least for APs IIRC | 20:29 |
| Nicd- | yes, but not just gmaps | 20:29 |
| flux | nightmare__, I though that was based on only active access point information | 20:30 |
| flux | not active clients in a wlan | 20:30 |
| Nicd- | iOS and WP do it as well | 20:30 |
| M4rtinK | Mozilla has an Ap you can run that does that too :) | 20:30 |
| M4rtinK | opt-in for a change :D | 20:30 |
| flux | in other words: at present google will not be able to track my phone in various networks even if I have android phones with google maps in the same network | 20:31 |
| Nightmare__ | possibly right | 20:31 |
| flux | but if they simply dumped their ARP tables to google as well, that would be possible | 20:32 |
| *** pdanek has quit IRC | 20:32 | |
| flux | and even more intrusive operations would likely be possible. does wlan even encrypt mac addresses?-o | 20:32 |
| *** pdanek has joined #jollamobile | 20:33 | |
| flux | maybe in next versions ;) | 20:33 |
| Nightmare__ | or in current version without knowing ;) | 20:34 |
| flux | hmm, new jolla works nicer in my wlan, or it was pure luck that I was able to login to it just now | 20:37 |
| flux | (I'm on the hotfix as well if that has affected anything) | 20:40 |
| *** pat_o_ has quit IRC | 20:43 | |
| *** pat_o_ has joined #jollamobile | 20:44 | |
| DrainBamaged | cool, sledges, ty for URL | 20:45 |
| pdanek | Stskeeps: I do believe that AI may eventually feel and love the same way as we do | 20:46 |
| pdanek | As in the movie. | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. but at same time, we're trying to replace humans with something very non human.. | 20:47 |
| lpotter | seems the hotfix either works or it doesn't work | 20:48 |
| pdanek | yeah, I agree | 20:48 |
| *** Bryal has quit IRC | 20:50 | |
| *** Sailor-2gether has joined #jollamobile | 20:55 | |
| *** teaburn has joined #jollamobile | 20:57 | |
| *** pdanek has quit IRC | 20:58 | |
| *** pdanek1 has joined #jollamobile | 20:58 | |
| *** Sail0r has quit IRC | 20:59 | |
| flux | finally configured jolla to backuppc. I hope I never need to use it ;) | 21:01 |
| pdanek1 | hehe | 21:02 |
| pdanek1 | You have backup PC? | 21:02 |
| pdanek1 | :O | 21:03 |
| flux | I run BackupPC on my server | 21:03 |
| pdanek1 | ah: http://backuppc.sourceforge.net/ | 21:03 |
| pdanek1 | I didn't know | 21:03 |
| Nicd- | backuppc is surprisingly nice | 21:03 |
| flux | it's nice. it does dedupping, so moving files from directory to another, or from pc to another, doesn't cause lot of space being lost | 21:03 |
| flux | and it's mostly fire-and-forget; if a PC doesn't get backed up for some reason it sends you an email | 21:04 |
| pdanek1 | Do you guys remember Dell Streak phones? 5" phones 4 years ago. | 21:04 |
| pdanek1 | People didn't buy it that much, it was too big for majority of people. | 21:04 |
| pdanek1 | How come that now, 4 years afterward, suddenly 5 inch is not big at all? Did people's hands grew in size or what? :D | 21:04 |
| Nicd- | I remember when the best phones were the smallest. the smaller the more expensive and more advanced | 21:05 |
| pdanek1 | We're like frogs, put frog in hot water, it jumps out. Heat the water slowly frog stays. | 21:06 |
| pdanek1 | Give people something very different, they refuse it. | 21:06 |
| pdanek1 | Gradually change something to the point over years. | 21:06 |
| pdanek1 | And people accept it. | 21:06 |
| *** Kabouik has joined #jollamobile | 21:06 | |
| flux | first give five-row qwery.. then four-row.. then three-row.. then no qwerty at all :) | 21:07 |
| flux | (qwerty) | 21:07 |
| pdanek1 | People are no different from frog behavior, we're just more intelligent, so water test is too transparent for us. | 21:07 |
| MSameer | i have always wanted a bigger screen :) | 21:09 |
| Nicd- | sorry pdanek1: "a frog submerged and gradually heated will jump out" | 21:10 |
| *** mato^ has quit IRC | 21:10 | |
| *** spider-mario has quit IRC | 21:10 | |
| pdanek1 | Nicd-: ah ok | 21:11 |
| flux | internet is full of lies?-( | 21:11 |
| AJAX555 | flux: lies! | 21:11 |
| AJAX555 | now entering eternal loop | 21:12 |
| pdanek1 | It's not just internet, that's a story I know from I can memeber. | 21:12 |
| pdanek1 | It's like anecdote that everyone knows. | 21:12 |
| pdanek1 | But it seems that tests has really proven otherwise. :) | 21:12 |
| pdanek1 | It's like spinach contains tons of iron. :D | 21:13 |
| flux | "hmm, didn't seem to work. let's try it again till it does." | 21:13 |
| flux | at least the rsync over ssh over openvpn seems to take some batteries :) | 21:15 |
| *** mato^ has joined #jollamobile | 21:16 | |
| *** Aranel has quit IRC | 21:20 | |
| tigeli | flux: I use this https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-snapshot | 21:20 |
| flux | I was considering indeed using the snapshots for making a solid backup, like I do with my workstation | 21:21 |
| flux | but maybe some day in future.. | 21:21 |
| *** Porkepix has quit IRC | 21:22 | |
| flux | ..also I'm a bit wary of playing with such an old version of btrfs ;-) (though I don't know how recent it is in the presence of backported patches) | 21:22 |
| *** Porkepix has joined #jollamobile | 21:23 | |
| tigeli | flux: there are quite a lot backported patches in :) | 21:24 |
| flux | "a lot" doesn't really tell a lot :-) | 21:26 |
| tigeli | :D | 21:26 |
| *** Aranel has joined #jollamobile | 21:26 | |
| flux | maybe "there are backported patches to bring it to approximately 3.15 level", that would actually contain information ;) | 21:26 |
| tigeli | flux: well, I'm not going through commits at this time ;) | 21:27 |
| *** Lipevakala has joined #jollamobile | 21:30 | |
| *** Lipevakala_ has joined #jollamobile | 21:31 | |
| ShadowJK | I've noticed over the years, that it's always "I wouldn't use btrfs v current-1, it was buggy as hell, only current is ok", and it never seems to taper off :) | 21:35 |
| *** Lipevakala has quit IRC | 21:35 | |
| *** attah has quit IRC | 21:35 | |
| *** phdeswer has quit IRC | 21:37 | |
| *** patinux has quit IRC | 21:40 | |
| *** patinux has joined #jollamobile | 21:41 | |
| Aard | sometimes I cry in my sleep about making the decision to go with btrfs. but then I remember the bits that would've hurt if I'd have gone with ext4, and calm down. | 21:44 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 21:44 |
| ShadowJK | Was f2fs never considered? | 21:45 |
| Aard | yes | 21:45 |
| ShadowJK | Though, the emmc on jolla seems rather swift even with btrfs, though you probably didn't know what it'd be like at the time? | 21:45 |
| Aard | I'd need to check history, it's been a while. but iirc we had the first protos of the jolla still with ext4, and switched later | 21:46 |
| ShadowJK | iirc, on typical emmc, ext4 and btrfs are roughly similar in performance within a magnitude or two, though as you move up from cheapest possible emmc, ext4 stops sucking before btrfs stops sucking | 21:49 |
| ShadowJK | (because of android optimizations on slightly less shitty emmc) | 21:49 |
| Aard | without btrfs the factory reset would've been a lot trickier. also the home/root volume on the same partition wouldn't have been possible | 21:50 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 21:50 |
| Aard | we'd have had to compensate with lvm hackery, but that'd be probably more painful than btrfs | 21:50 |
| ShadowJK | Or recovery partition with restore image | 21:50 |
| Aard | takes up more space | 21:51 |
| Aard | and is less flexible | 21:51 |
| ShadowJK | Well, sooner or later as the updates accumulate, the delta between initial image and current image will be pretty huge (hopefully!) anyways? :-) | 21:52 |
| Aard | the recovery partition needs to be big enough to account for future increases in the base image size, or you're screwed, and either can't add new features to the base image, or you lose recovery functionality. just resizing the partition later is not really possible | 21:53 |
| ShadowJK | Seems like a good choice of emmc anyways, btrfs (and ext4) while having unexpected poweroff tolerance on harddrives, generally make themselves less resiliant on flash based storage than "dumb" approaches.. after countless random poweroffs and resets, the emmc seems to not have invoked its random number generator too much yet :-) | 21:55 |
| ShadowJK | .. which is rather impressive, as I guess Jolla doesn't have the automated test facilities like, for example, TomTom has, where they continously randomly disconnect the emmc during map/firmware upgrade process to see what happens :) | 21:57 |
| *** sclukey has quit IRC | 21:58 | |
| *** raa70 has quit IRC | 22:00 | |
| M4rtinK | well, I wouldn't mind a LVM & XFS combo :) | 22:03 |
| Aard | I'll never touch xfs again | 22:04 |
| ShadowJK | it's been awhile, but last time I tested, XFS was rather splendid on harddrive (though ext4 has gained some of XFS' delayed allocation features which negates some of XFS' performance benefits), but brutally slow on flash (as was JFS and Reiser* too) | 22:04 |
| M4rtinK | well, there have been some quite big improvements made in XFS recently | 22:05 |
| ShadowJK | XFS was the first with delayed allocation, and revealed all the apps with silly file handling behaviour, resulting in loss of data :-) | 22:05 |
| M4rtinK | not sure if any are related to flash memory usage though | 22:05 |
| Aard | I stopped using it on my personal systems back when it did "hey, you had that file open on unclean shutdown, so I thought you'd appreciate if I'd just replaced it with zeroes" | 22:06 |
| M4rtinK | mostly scalability improvements IIRC | 22:06 |
| M4rtinK | I think that one was fixed, but not sure | 22:06 |
| Aard | I had to deal with it later at some job as well, we had mixed machines doing the same stuff with different filesystems. kind of 'survival of the fittest' approach to find out what is best for our needs | 22:08 |
| Aard | xfs was always the only filesystem losing so much data that we dropped it | 22:08 |
| ShadowJK | Aard, btrfs and ext4 have that features too now, but apps have been fixed since then :) | 22:09 |
| M4rtinK | IIRC it had serious issues with sudden power failures in the past | 22:09 |
| M4rtinK | that were fixed from what I have read | 22:09 |
| M4rtinK | well, if it is the default FS in RHEL7, it must be good :D | 22:10 |
| *** cb400f has quit IRC | 22:10 | |
| ShadowJK | I remember xfs once nuked a kernel mod source I was working on, I had just complied it and modprobed, and bug locked up system, on load, it was zeroed :) | 22:10 |
| Aard | RHEL is high on the list of stuff I don't want to touch anymore as well :p | 22:10 |
| M4rtinK | why ? :) | 22:11 |
| sqozz | hey folks, can someone give me a hint, why i cant install any android apps? I've already installed the android app support but after start the apk-installation nothing happens | 22:11 |
| sqozz | tried it with 3 different apk's | 22:11 |
| ShadowJK | ext4 has mount option to "fix" certain file access patterns where the author believes a fsync is implied where it isn't, reduces the xfs "zerod file" syndrome | 22:11 |
| *** teaburn has quit IRC | 22:13 | |
| *** jesperC has quit IRC | 22:14 | |
| *** itbaron has quit IRC | 22:21 | |
| *** mbs1337 has joined #jollamobile | 22:26 | |
| *** ortylp has quit IRC | 22:30 | |
| *** HarhaanJohtaja has quit IRC | 22:30 | |
| *** Aranel has quit IRC | 22:30 | |
| *** kunev has quit IRC | 22:33 | |
| *** Sailor-2gether has quit IRC | 22:35 | |
| *** pdanek1 has quit IRC | 22:35 | |
| *** pdanek has joined #jollamobile | 22:35 | |
| *** phdeswer has joined #jollamobile | 22:38 | |
| *** Aranel has joined #jollamobile | 22:39 | |
| *** Nightmare__ has quit IRC | 22:40 | |
| *** Nekron_ has quit IRC | 22:48 | |
| tigeli | next one will have reiserfs :D | 22:48 |
| *** vesurivs has joined #jollamobile | 22:53 | |
| lpotter | I'm rather keen on FAT | 22:54 |
| ShadowJK | feh | 22:56 |
| *** cloanta has quit IRC | 22:58 | |
| *** the_mgt_ has joined #jollamobile | 23:05 | |
| *** AlmAck has quit IRC | 23:06 | |
| *** Porkepix_ has joined #jollamobile | 23:07 | |
| *** wwiesel_ has quit IRC | 23:07 | |
| *** wwiesel has joined #jollamobile | 23:08 | |
| *** pdanek1 has joined #jollamobile | 23:08 | |
| *** Porkepix has quit IRC | 23:08 | |
| *** pdanek has quit IRC | 23:09 | |
| *** the_mgt has quit IRC | 23:09 | |
| *** the_mgt_ is now known as the_mgt | 23:09 | |
| *** pdanek has joined #jollamobile | 23:10 | |
| *** pdanek1 has quit IRC | 23:10 | |
| *** pdanek has left #jollamobile | 23:10 | |
| *** wwiesel_ has joined #jollamobile | 23:10 | |
| *** Natunen has quit IRC | 23:11 | |
| *** wwiesel has quit IRC | 23:12 | |
| *** wwiesel has joined #jollamobile | 23:13 | |
| *** wwiesel_ has quit IRC | 23:15 | |
| *** Morpog_PC has quit IRC | 23:16 | |
| *** lepetitclement has joined #jollamobile | 23:21 | |
| *** wwiesel_ has joined #jollamobile | 23:23 | |
| *** wwiesel has quit IRC | 23:27 | |
| *** wwiesel has joined #jollamobile | 23:27 | |
| *** wwiesel_ has quit IRC | 23:28 | |
| *** wwiesel_ has joined #jollamobile | 23:33 | |
| *** wwiesel has quit IRC | 23:35 | |
| *** wwiesel has joined #jollamobile | 23:36 | |
| nyov | does the jolla phone have a JTAG header? | 23:37 |
| *** Blizzz has quit IRC | 23:38 | |
| *** wwiesel_ has quit IRC | 23:39 | |
| *** wwiesel has quit IRC | 23:41 | |
| *** pdanek has joined #jollamobile | 23:48 | |
| pdanek | Why Android apps in landscape mode have portrait mode minimize/close gestures? | 23:49 |
| pdanek | Quite confusing, when some other apps in landscape mode, have landscape gestures. | 23:50 |
| *** wwiesel has joined #jollamobile | 23:51 | |
| *** disharmonic has quit IRC | 23:57 | |
| *** wwiesel has quit IRC | 23:59 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!
