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| Andy80 | two days in a row that Jolla alarm doesn't ring. This really sucks a lot :( | 06:30 |
|---|---|---|
| Andy80 | luckly I had the Lumia one set | 06:30 |
| Stskeeps | 1.0.3.8? | 06:32 |
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| Andy80 | Stskeeps, yes | 06:33 |
| Andy80 | (battery at 80%, no SIM inside and wifi off) | 06:34 |
| Andy80 | (sounds on) | 06:34 |
| Stskeeps | hmm | 06:34 |
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| chriadam | Andy80: did it start playing the alarm as soon as you turned the display on, or did it not play at all? | 06:39 |
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| Andy80 | chriadam, it did not play at all | 06:41 |
| Andy80 | same yesterday. It's set to ring at 6:00 every day except Sat and Sun. | 06:41 |
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| kimmoli | Andy80: do you have any sounds at all? | 06:52 |
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| kimmoli | Two possibilities that i can think of: your favorite enabled ambience overrides system clock alarm sound with something, or if no audio at all: you might have done something to audio as root, e.g. run csd -tool with root permissions. | 06:59 |
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| Quu | someone (jubo) had same problem | 07:08 |
| Quu | he had deleted all the sounds | 07:08 |
| Quu | and whined 4 days about it | 07:08 |
| Quu | "i have no ringtones" | 07:08 |
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| Quu | and it took 3 hours for me to tell that dipshit that he probably deleted his files | 07:09 |
| raa70 | don't insult dipshits | 07:09 |
| Quu | sorry. | 07:09 |
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| Andy80 | kimmoli, sorry I was under the shower :P yes I have sounds and yes I have a custom ambiance. Actually I have the Aloa other half that customized everything. | 07:37 |
| Andy80 | Quu, I didn't delete anything. I just attached the Aloa other half few days ago | 07:38 |
| Quu | mm'kay | 07:38 |
| Quu | do you have the ambience still installed? | 07:38 |
| Quu | and the stupid tutorial app? | 07:38 |
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| Andy80 | the ambiance is installed | 07:41 |
| Andy80 | the tutorial I don't know | 07:42 |
| Andy80 | I didn't remove anything | 07:42 |
| Quu | ok, then i have no idea :) | 07:43 |
| Quu | is the sound set in ambiance settings? | 07:43 |
| Quu | ... unless its the aloa-ambience, then you cant even change it | 07:44 |
| Quu | you could SSH into it, set alarm and check what logs say | 07:45 |
| Quu | that would probably give you sortof hint on whats wrong | 07:45 |
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| Andy80 | the first 2 days with the Aloa toh the alarm was working I remember... | 07:49 |
| Andy80 | now I've to run, I will check later when in the office maybe | 07:49 |
| CoderCandy | Wait, you can't change ringtones and stuff with aloa? | 07:50 |
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| Andy80 | only if you set another ambiance | 08:02 |
| Andy80 | you can't customize it | 08:02 |
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| Venemo_j | hi :) | 09:11 |
| Venemo_j | moo Stskeeps :) | 09:11 |
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| Stskeeps | m00 Venemo_j | 09:12 |
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| Venemo_j | Stskeeps: how're you doing nowadays? I hope you're no longer that stressed out :) | 09:13 |
| chem|st | muuuhoooohw | 09:14 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_j: i had a brilliant relaxing weekend | 09:14 |
| Venemo_j | Stskeeps: great news :) | 09:15 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_j: now getting my work life in order and properly organized, so i can start having time for creative things again | 09:15 |
| Venemo_j | Stskeeps: yeah, creativeness is very important | 09:16 |
| Venemo_j | Stskeeps: I wish I had more time to do creative things myself | 09:16 |
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| radekp | hi, any idea if one of these panels could be used for solar TOH? http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/products/oem-comparison-chart/ | 09:19 |
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| flux | thanks jolla. it apparently asked my pin code three times in a row in my pocket. happily it didn't enter puk code thrice. | 09:23 |
| mornfall | flux: it's those reboots... | 09:23 |
| flux | it actually doesn't reboot | 09:24 |
| flux | I think the sim card might be somehow badly connected, it often re-asks the pin code | 09:24 |
| flux | I suppose it would be a huuuuge security problem if it just remembered the pin code.. | 09:25 |
| Nicd- | solution: unlock your SIM ;) | 09:25 |
| flux | actually it -did- ask the puk code I see | 09:25 |
| flux | because when I opened the phone it was asking the re-enter the pin code | 09:25 |
| flux | happily it only sends the puk+new pin after managing to re-enter the pin-code | 09:26 |
| flux | also happily my 3g provider has the puk code on the web site, so I was easy to access.. | 09:26 |
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| chem|st | flux: and you are concerned about security, your provider sotring those codes instead of having them only on disposable cards? | 09:36 |
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| tbr | flux: IIRC PUK has 10 attempts on most cards. | 09:40 |
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| tbr | flux: you might want to have a look at the little sensing pin in the sim card slot. if your card is not perfectly shaped it might slip or align wrongly. | 09:41 |
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| coderus | can i get info about installing google play on jolla here? | 09:47 |
| till_ | just google for the tutorial | 09:47 |
| coderus | done, but starting Play Store showing window and immediately closing it | 09:48 |
| Frye | Try a reboot | 09:48 |
| coderus | tried | 09:48 |
| Azog | coderus: there is a good tutorial on t.j.c | 09:49 |
| till_ | I did start the configuration app first afair | 09:49 |
| Frye | You could try the settings app too. But I have had no issues when following the tutorial | 09:49 |
| coderus | google settings starting okay | 09:50 |
| Frye | You could try reinstalling the play store apk then | 09:50 |
| till_ | running perfectly at my jolla, except for paid apps, they need some hacking :) | 09:51 |
| Frye | Hehe | 09:51 |
| Frye | I'm playing clash of clans on my Jolla | 09:51 |
| Frye | Not tried those in-app purchases though | 09:51 |
| till_ | i bought quizduell and sporcle | 09:52 |
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| till_ | had to copy some files manually | 09:52 |
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| till_ | but now it's working perfectly | 09:52 |
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| coderus | hm, doing same things again and it working now :D | 10:00 |
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| flux | chem|st, I actually was not concerned of security, but someone might be against a root-running daemon that has the pin code in plain text in memory | 10:03 |
| flux | tbr, thanks, I'll take a look | 10:03 |
| flux | tbr, it's one of those home-cut sim cards, though I did use a tool made for the task, so it is a bit rough on the edges | 10:04 |
| coderus | android have access to gps? | 10:04 |
| till_ | yes | 10:04 |
| coderus | cool :) | 10:05 |
| flux | chem|st, I don't know why I would be really worried about the provider storing access codes for accessing their own sim cards | 10:05 |
| chem|st | flux: cause they hold the encrypted simcards as well... never heard of don't store your banking card pin with your card? | 10:06 |
| flux | chem|st, I have heard it, but how is that relevant? the bank surely stores the pin code.. | 10:07 |
| flux | encrypted or not, they store it in a manner that can be reversed | 10:07 |
| chem|st | sure all of it is a flaw... just like the appraised SMS-TAN | 10:07 |
| flux | given the code is so short it is impossible to store it in a non-reversible manner | 10:08 |
| flux | (assuming at least it's possible to verify if a given code matches it) | 10:08 |
| FireFly | hm | 10:08 |
| chem|st | flux: as soon as I have my phone stolen or anything I can lock my simcard online or by phone within minutes | 10:09 |
| chem|st | what you cannot lock is your private data on your phone so you should lock that away before that happens | 10:10 |
| flux | well, I'm as not talking about phone locking | 10:10 |
| chem|st | flux: and as the record reflects, custom-cut simcards have issues | 10:10 |
| flux | I was talking about the scenario that the connection to the sim card flipflops and it needs to be re-authenticated | 10:10 |
| flux | in those cases if jolla had access to the pin code, I would not even notice it | 10:11 |
| flux | perhaps a log entry somewhere, or a warning if it happens often enough | 10:11 |
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| FireFly | maybe it could vibrate a bit when the pin entry screen is shown, so that one would be notified even if it's in the pocket | 10:13 |
| flux | yeah, n9 vibrates on pin code entry | 10:13 |
| gabriel9|work | update :D | 10:13 |
| gabriel9|work | no | 10:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | From memory, asking for the PIN 'live' is actually required to be a proper phone. | 10:14 |
| SpeedEvil | But that may not be cared about | 10:14 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle, 'sim toolkit' functions - including PIN request should go direct to the user. | 10:15 |
| flux | I think n900 had this ninja-reboot functionality that actually remembered the pin code over some watchdog-induced reboots.. | 10:15 |
| flux | (or maybe it simply didn't turn off the sim functionality over reboot | 10:15 |
| SpeedEvil | It's possible that the n900 modem diddn't turn off | 10:15 |
| SpeedEvil | CPU reboots are irrelevant | 10:15 |
| SpeedEvil | ^application CPU | 10:15 |
| chem|st | only if the modem fails and needs restarting pincodes are requested | 10:16 |
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| tbr | flux: the sensing pin is in the cut off corner of the sim. | 10:28 |
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| ln- | as i understand from tjc, TOHs cannot be reused by another user after the ambience has been installed once. i think that is going to be a problem not only for the users, but also for Jolla. | 10:57 |
| CoderCandy | Second hand market of TOHs will be nonexistant | 10:57 |
| mornfall | do we have a native sound recording app? | 10:58 |
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| CoderCandy | ln-: also, it is connected to your jolla-account, so a user can reinstall the ambiance if needed. | 10:59 |
| ln- | yes, so i figured. but if you sell your phone or a TOH, the buyer can't get ambiences. | 11:00 |
| CoderCandy | Yeah, as I said, second hand TOH-market will be nonexistant. | 11:01 |
| CoderCandy | And that's sortof sad :( | 11:01 |
| FireFly | ln-: hm, souds DRM-y | 11:02 |
| FireFly | Ah | 11:02 |
| CoderCandy | Oh, a live FireFly! | 11:03 |
| CoderCandy | Hi | 11:03 |
| FireFly | Hi | 11:03 |
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| chem|st | concept is kinda borked | 11:06 |
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| CoderCandy | chem|st: of DRM TOHs or TOHs in general? | 11:07 |
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| chem|st | the whole thing seems to be not thought through properly atm | 11:09 |
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| chem|st | DRM TOH,NFC without antenna, you need to sell your jolla account with your phone | 11:09 |
| FireFly | Maybe a together discussion on the topic would be a good idea | 11:10 |
| clau | for a few days now, every once in a while when I unlock the phone I get a blank screen. going to events view fixes it. has anyone else seen this? | 11:10 |
| FireFly | blank as in only black, but backlit? | 11:11 |
| chem|st | clau: every once in a while yes | 11:11 |
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| FireFly | I've had that occasionaly, although my workaround is to turn the screen off and then on again | 11:11 |
| CoderCandy | clau: yup, rather often in fact | 11:11 |
| CoderCandy | But I mainly just complain about crashes, since I can live with that bug. | 11:11 |
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| chem|st | seems it is that something buggers the dinghy so only the light goes on | 11:12 |
| clau | FireFly: yes, it's backlit. just entirely black. | 11:12 |
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| CoderCandy | After the crash-bugfix I'll start complaining about that though :p | 11:13 |
| clau | :) | 11:13 |
| chem|st | would be nice if people stop complaining about the same issues over and over again... we are all waiting for an update and I have not enough goats to make it any faster | 11:13 |
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| chem|st | FireFly: start a tjc I'll join'ya | 11:14 |
| CoderCandy | chem|st: eh, I don't constantly complain about it, but from time to time... | 11:14 |
| chem|st | CoderCandy: it is the mass of people, not a single individual | 11:14 |
| FireFly | chem|st: I don't have the time for that at the moment | 11:15 |
| ln- | the greatest problem with TOH DRM is that i haven't seen it being mentioned anywhere even though i even bought the Aloe TOH separately. | 11:15 |
| CoderCandy | But I understand the mass... When a phone gets a bug that renders it pretty much unusable it's a rather bug issue. | 11:15 |
| chem|st | FireFly: waht should I call it? "Bug you need to sell your soul with your jolla"? | 11:15 |
| FireFly | Haha | 11:16 |
| FireFly | "Discussion about after-market for jollas" or something? | 11:16 |
| pp_ | :-) | 11:16 |
| chem|st | I like mine more | 11:16 |
| FireFly | Fair enough :p | 11:16 |
| FireFly | I kinda like it too | 11:16 |
| pp_ | hopefully there'll be some useful 3rd party TOH's with no NFC :-) | 11:16 |
| FireFly | Is there a 'philosophy' tag? | 11:16 |
| pp_ | or was there some no commercial use clause? | 11:17 |
| CoderCandy | pp_: There was in the design documents | 11:17 |
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| Acce | I hope they'll fix the second-hand TOH problem, we all remember XBox one, don't we.. | 11:17 |
| CoderCandy | But I guess you can get a deal with Jolla if you ask. | 11:18 |
| FireFly | Acce: I remember it like last year! | 11:18 |
| FireFly | ...oh wait | 11:18 |
| pp_ | otherwise I'll stick with the red one, wouldn't mind a black one with say wireless charging (not to mention qwerty :P ) | 11:19 |
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| pp_ | plastic + drm'd ringtones, no way :-) | 11:20 |
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| chem|st | FireFly: https://together.jolla.com/question/32775/bug-you-need-to-sell-your-soul-with-your-jolla/ | 11:20 |
| chem|st | I wont sell any of this in the near future, I would need a N950 to complete the history order but well... N900 N9 Jolla is fair enough | 11:22 |
| chem|st | pp_: are the tunes drm'd? | 11:23 |
| chem|st | at least I had no issues playing them or exporting them elsewhere | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | we don't have anything remotely drm in the os | 11:24 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: yeah would wonder if so | 11:24 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | chem|st: the drm was linked to the fact that OH ambiences are linked to one jolla account | 11:25 |
| chem|st | Sfiet_Konstantin: yeah thought so but as pp_ mentioned drm for ringtones I asked | 11:26 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | chem|st: nope, there are no drm | 11:27 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | and for ringtones, it could be quite strange | 11:27 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | for music from well known artists, i can understand drm, but not for some ringtones | 11:28 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: FYI my cellreception seems to degrade, any idea how to log that over time? | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | not offhand but it's there in ril | 11:29 |
| pp_ | well, behind nfc chip credentials, sure you can just copy them around afterwards | 11:29 |
| pp_ | :) | 11:29 |
| chem|st | same spot in my office and at home were approx. -14dBm and are now approx. -9dBm, I would not notice if it wasn't for bad reception anyways but kinda strange as I think it started of with max indicator in January (whatever damping factor that was back then) | 11:32 |
| chem|st | pp_: the chips are empty... its only the uuid | 11:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | chem|st: weather matters | 11:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Wetness of builting materials, leaves or no leaves on trees | 11:48 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: so rain and snowy weather makes better reception? | 11:49 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: Well - no | 11:49 |
| SpeedEvil | In general, wet stuff absorbs more radio. | 11:49 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: we have a one week high and almost mid spring out here | 11:50 |
| SpeedEvil | But - snow is less absorbing than water, and leaves absorb a lot | 11:50 |
| chem|st | I know | 11:50 |
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| chem|st | trees with leaves are like a massive water barrier for MF signals | 11:52 |
| roboro | you mean my secret lair behind the waterfall is why I can't get reception on my Jolla all this time?!!! | 11:53 |
| roboro | just teasing... I get better reception on my Jolla than on my crappy Android phone | 11:53 |
| chem|st | I was like 30m to the next free hotspot in direct sight but right in the middle is a huge tree... | 11:54 |
| Frye | Ok, guys. I have a confession to make. | 11:54 |
| chem|st | roboro: I did as well, it just seems weakened over time | 11:54 |
| Frye | Today I'm ditching my iPhone as my primary device. | 11:54 |
| chem|st | Frye: you are an alien? | 11:54 |
| Frye | And off to Jolla it is completely! | 11:54 |
| roboro | that's not a confession | 11:54 |
| roboro | that's a conversion | 11:54 |
| Frye | :D | 11:54 |
| Frye | Upgrade really | 11:55 |
| chem|st | Frye: can I have the iPhone? the design fits my coffeetable and I need more trivets | 11:55 |
| Frye | hehe nope, it's my companys phone | 11:55 |
| chem|st | I am looking for iPads as well, they would make awesome planter trivets | 11:56 |
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| chem|st | Frye: I'd wait for the next update, before I'd swap, my N9 modem forced me too, and no I have a dumbphone... | 11:58 |
| chem|st | now | 11:58 |
| Frye | I have no issues with the current one. | 11:58 |
| Frye | Works better than iPhone and eats less battery | 11:58 |
| chem|st | that for sure | 11:58 |
| chem|st | people look at me like crazy when I tell that I charge about twicce a week... for androids it is sometimes twice a day | 11:59 |
| Frye | hehe | 11:59 |
| Frye | yeah | 11:59 |
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| Frye | Now that my device has had no sim for a while it's been charge once / two weeks. | 12:00 |
| Frye | or maybe 1,5x / two weeks | 12:00 |
| Frye | Only on wlan | 12:00 |
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| chem|st | I loose 7-18%/d depending on usage of course | 12:01 |
| Frye | yeah, I had one day of no use and it was 4% loss | 12:02 |
| Frye | I have iPhone on no use and its more than 40% loss :D | 12:02 |
| Frye | I'll have this company phone serviced just in case it's broken. | 12:03 |
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| chem|st | Frye: it records audio, takes pictures and indexes your files for the NSA all day long... for sure that eats battery | 12:04 |
| Frye | :D | 12:04 |
| chem|st | iPhones NSA internal name is Zombies | 12:05 |
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| Venemo_j | chem|st: if you use the jolla like they use those androids, you'll need to charge twice a day too | 12:09 |
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| leinir | mine around about lasts a day | 12:10 |
| leinir | about an hour or so of bluetooth connected music playing, and a lot of twittering (using plume, so android there as well) | 12:10 |
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| suosaaski | Took a while, but now it's here: http://lastucase.com/product/lastucase-jolla/ | 12:11 |
| inffy_ | was just about to paste that :) | 12:15 |
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| suosaaski | So I guess the little birds were right, although took about a month longer than I expected :) | 12:15 |
| suosaaski | I have the iPhone version and I think I would definitely buy that if I had a Jolla phone. | 12:17 |
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| roboro | EUR49 is quite steep... but it looks good... and the pouches for cards is a great addition | 12:23 |
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| suosaaski | I thought it was pretty steep, too, when I bought the iPhone version, but I would not buy "yet another" 20e case anymore, they all look the same :) | 12:28 |
| suosaaski | In fact, I also bought a case for my ipad mini as well, as I was pretty satisfied with it. And for my wifes iPhone... | 12:28 |
| Nicd- | no case for iphone 4 :/ | 12:29 |
| suosaaski | They did have one. Apparently not available anymore... | 12:29 |
| roboro | suosaaski: I've been waiting for a decent flip cover for a while now... so I might go with this... | 12:30 |
| suosaaski | https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/75064_553519824658656_654543083_n.jpg | 12:30 |
| roboro | how bendy is the leather front? does it flip closed on its own when you have it laid open... or is it soft enough to remain open... | 12:31 |
| suosaaski | the only downside that I might see someone wanting, is that there is no magnet to keep the case closed. | 12:31 |
| roboro | meh... I can live with that.... | 12:31 |
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| suosaaski | it tooks a few days for the leather to "set". At first it does not stay closed, but I just kept the phone display down with cover closed for a few nights and now it's kinda perfect. | 12:32 |
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| roboro | I often like to have my phone on my desk... ready to interact with as I need... so I don't want to have to keep opening the front cover | 12:32 |
| suosaaski | There is nothing hard in the cover, so it is as bendy as leather gets if you don't keep cards in it. | 12:32 |
| roboro | but I want to be able to close the cover when I put it in my pocket | 12:32 |
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| * roboro just bought a lastucase | 12:43 | |
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| tabasko | roboro: how jolla+lastu feels at hand? thicker | 12:48 |
| tabasko | ? | 12:48 |
| osaton | /me too | 12:48 |
| roboro | tabasko: I'll let you know when its delivered :) | 12:48 |
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| roboro | probably a bit thicker... although it looks like its integrated into a non-functional TOH... so not much | 12:49 |
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| roboro | heh... I'm getting it engraved with my IRC nick :D:D:D | 12:54 |
| Nicd- | I engraved my website's address into my previous ipod's back... then the hoster closed my account and the address changed :/ | 12:55 |
| roboro | lol | 12:55 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | Nicd-: well, at least your host won't tell you to change your irc nick | 12:55 |
| roboro | some bastid is probably going to steal my irc nick :) | 12:55 |
| suosaaski | https://www.facebook.com/lastucase/photos_stream there are some engraving samples | 12:55 |
| * roboro should register it... | 12:55 | |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | so basically you can carve anything | 12:56 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | this is nice :) | 12:56 |
| suosaaski | Yes, although some engravings on that page are probably not free... | 12:56 |
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| roboro | mmmm I should have been more creative :) | 12:56 |
| roboro | https://www.facebook.com/lastucase/photos/pb.352552534755387.-2207520000.1394542563./755346217809348/?type=3&theater | 12:56 |
| roboro | do not try at home | 12:56 |
| suosaaski | I was not creative, either, I just ordered without engraving cos I couldn't think of any text to engrave it. Later noticed that page and realized I probably could have thought it out a bit more :) | 12:58 |
| suosaaski | wifes case is engraved full of hearts :) | 12:58 |
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| narchie | wow Lastu were pretty fast | 13:06 |
| narchie | II just got my black toh | 13:06 |
| narchie | and now I need to order a new one | 13:06 |
| grzywacz | why? | 13:07 |
| inffy_ | a lastu one i guess | 13:07 |
| narchie | grzywacz: because lastu | 13:08 |
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| grzywacz | I thought it sticks to whatever toh you have, instead of replacing it? | 13:09 |
| suosaaski | grzywacz: new version has a screen cover and toh included | 13:10 |
| grzywacz | ah, the cover one, got it! | 13:10 |
| grzywacz | Heh, super nice, but damn expensive :( | 13:10 |
| suosaaski | depends on how you look at it :) | 13:12 |
| grzywacz | I look at it from the perspective of not earning my living in Finland. :D | 13:13 |
| suosaaski | :/ | 13:13 |
| pp_ | 24% will go into taking care of old people! It's a BARGAIN | 13:15 |
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| suosaaski | well, most basic cases in finland cost 20-30e anyway, so that is "only" a price of two basic cases :) | 13:21 |
| mornfall | too bad lastu doesn't make an actual TOH though :) | 13:21 |
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| grzywacz | sunkan, more like 100eur for me if scaled by average salary :P | 13:22 |
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| suosaaski | yes and no, it has the other half (which makes it more compact than normal cases), but it does not include NFC chip, so no custom theme etc. | 13:22 |
| mornfall | suosaaski: it doesn't include the TOH bit either, you have to glue it yourself :) | 13:23 |
| suosaaski | mornfall: you are probably talking about a different product. | 13:23 |
| mornfall | the only one I found | 13:23 |
| suosaaski | http://lastucase.com/product/lastucase-jolla/ | 13:23 |
| mornfall | http://lastucase.com/product/lastu-arc-jolla | 13:23 |
| suosaaski | announced today | 13:23 |
| mornfall | ah, ok | 13:24 |
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| narchie | ice | 13:24 |
| mornfall | only catch, I don't buy leather... but yeah, it is a nice idea | 13:24 |
| Nicd- | ooh, it's reindeer leather | 13:26 |
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| Venemo_j | Stskeeps: so, march 14? :) | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | march 2014 | 13:30 |
| Venemo_j | hahah :) | 13:31 |
| mornfall | Venemo_j: Aard said "hopefully less than 10 days" last Sunday I think, that'd make March 14th the last "good" date :) | 13:31 |
| Venemo_j | come on, throw us a bone | 13:31 |
| ggabriel | they said this week last week in twitter, right? | 13:31 |
| ggabriel | so, friday at most? | 13:31 |
| * Aard throws Venemo_j a tiny chicken bone | 13:32 | |
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| ggabriel | chicken bones are dangerous | 13:32 |
| Venemo_j | thanks Aard | 13:32 |
| ggabriel | Venemo_j: as your attorney i advise you against chewing on it | 13:33 |
| Venemo_j | ggabriel: I knew I could count on you :P | 13:34 |
| * ggabriel is away from his jolla until friday so can wait ;-) | 13:34 | |
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| Venemo_j | poor ggabriel, what happened to your precious? | 13:34 |
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| ggabriel | Venemo_j: i'm away from home and didn't bring the jolla with me | 13:35 |
| ggabriel | biz travel, sucks really | 13:35 |
| Venemo_j | ggabriel: you're travelling to a cave? | 13:35 |
| ggabriel | no, but i don't want to bring all my electronics :) | 13:35 |
| ggabriel | i bring most of them tho :P | 13:36 |
| Venemo_j | or how come you don't need your phone? | 13:36 |
| ggabriel | i still use the n9 as main | 13:36 |
| pp_ | I was optimistic and upgraded to a 4G subscription that should start on thursday :P | 13:36 |
| pp_ | lessee what happens | 13:36 |
| mornfall | ggabriel: travelling to Brazil? :P | 13:36 |
| Venemo_j | ah, N9... how old fashioned | 13:36 |
| ggabriel | n9 is awesome | 13:36 |
| ggabriel | very slow if you fill the emms with maps tho | 13:36 |
| mornfall | Venemo_j: c'mon, my wife inherited my N900 :) | 13:36 |
| Venemo_j | I didn't say it's not still cool | 13:37 |
| ggabriel | i need caldav+paid applications man | 13:37 |
| ggabriel | else i can't move on | 13:37 |
| mornfall | when jolla drops the price to half I'll get her one though, although she might be getting addicted to a physical keyboard | 13:37 |
| pp_ | fastern9 gives it bit more life | 13:37 |
| ggabriel | oh, and the n9 can still be used as a decent enough satnav | 13:38 |
| ggabriel | which is cool | 13:38 |
| mornfall | yeah, heremaps on jolla suck :\ | 13:38 |
| Venemo_j | fastern9 only made it slower for me | 13:38 |
| Stskeeps | any good offline maps for android on jolla ooi? | 13:38 |
| mornfall | Stskeeps: I use mapy.cz, which kinda works, but drains battery like crazy (also, data only for .cz) | 13:38 |
| mornfall | Stskeeps: maep works surprisingly well, but the process of prefetching tiles is arduous | 13:39 |
| Plnt | +1 for mapy.cz | 13:39 |
| Plnt | especially for the offline maps including cycle tracks | 13:39 |
| mornfall | Plnt: it's somewhat omnious that it doubles the power consumption over maep though | 13:39 |
| Plnt | but it's offline for .cz, the rest of the world is online only and bitmap instead of vector | 13:40 |
| mornfall | (~1W vs ~2W for walking around with AGPS) | 13:40 |
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| Plnt | mornfall: oh.. that's quite a difference. i didn't used it that heavily so i didn't noticed. | 13:41 |
| mornfall | yeah, with the 8Wh battery in jolla, this is full to empty in 4 hours | 13:42 |
| Plnt | Stskeeps: also there is a hack for google maps (i didn't tried that on jolla) which allows you to cache part of the map for offline usage .. "OK Maps" .. http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2014/02/offline-google-maps/ | 13:42 |
| mornfall | (that's with the display on, which isn't realistic for continuous use of course) | 13:42 |
| mornfall | Plnt: maep-qt has an unlimited, persistent tile cache, but no downloader for it | 13:43 |
| mornfall | Plnt: so you need to look at everything you are going to use ahead of time | 13:43 |
| chem|st | Aard: I had the impression Jolla sacrifices goats only?! Don't throw your lunch at people! :D | 13:43 |
| mornfall | but OSM data is pretty good most of the time | 13:43 |
| Aard | chem|st: goats? where did you hear that? | 13:44 |
| Plnt | mornfall: that's nice. i wasn't aware of that app. | 13:44 |
| Aard | we only use teenage virgins | 13:44 |
| Wnt | I have been wondering how hard task would it to port the N9 Nokia maps software to Sailfish. Or create a chroot environment where one could use the whole Harmattan OS and it would appear like the Android compatibility layer, as one application in the UI | 13:44 |
| mornfall | Aard: not supplying in the US then, I guess :-P | 13:44 |
| Plnt | what's also good offline map for android is this .. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapfactor.navigator | 13:44 |
| Plnt | free, uses osm | 13:45 |
| chem|st | Aard: Stskeeps asked me to sacrifice goats or actually he asked for two goats | 13:45 |
| mornfall | Wnt: you want wayland-x11 or something I guess :) | 13:45 |
| mornfall | xwayland was it called? | 13:45 |
| Nicd- | chem|st: maybe he meant teenage virgin goats | 13:45 |
| mornfall | Nicd-: good luck finding any :-) | 13:45 |
| Aard | Wnt: hard. we don't do x11, we don't do qt4, we don't do meegotouch, ... | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | .. definately don't go wrt.. | 13:46 |
| Stskeeps | +d | 13:46 |
| Wnt | mornfall: yep, I think there already exist few parts of the system that one could do to achieve Harmattan OS "emulation" | 13:46 |
| mornfall | Aard: qt4 and qt5 can live along just fine | 13:46 |
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| chem|st | Nicd-: I don't think so, and I cannot tell which goat is a virgin or not | 13:47 |
| mornfall | it's all just libs, as long as jolla can talk X11 it should mostly work, at least in theory | 13:47 |
| mornfall | chem|st: because you totally can with humans :) | 13:47 |
| Aard | mornfall: there may be several lips linking to qt which have same names on harmattan and on jolla -> you'd really should put the whole harmattan fs somewhere and use it as container | 13:48 |
| Aard | then the next problem you'll have (even if you manage to do x11 stuff) is hardware access | 13:48 |
| mzanetti | am I the only one who gets a highlight for "all:" everytime someone replies to mornfall? :) | 13:48 |
| mornfall | mzanetti: most likely :D | 13:49 |
| Wnt | of course this emulation system could not be redistributed, but someone could develop some kind of bootstrap scripts for N9 users to exctart the emulation environment from open source software and software that's on their N9 devices | 13:49 |
| Nicd- | mzanetti: fix your regex :P | 13:49 |
| mzanetti | heh | 13:49 |
| mornfall | Aard: right, that's more of a problem | 13:49 |
| mornfall | Aard: and considering that porting apps from N9 isn't all that bad, it's probably a waste of time | 13:49 |
| mornfall | Aard: now porting commercial apps is not going to happen if harbour doesn't support that | 13:50 |
| Aard | it'll support it at some point | 13:50 |
| mornfall | Aard: so go poke whomever is responsible for that :D | 13:50 |
| mornfall | also, the harbour dashboard when they are at it ;-) | 13:50 |
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| chem|st | mornfall: does not matter, as I am a magician | 14:27 |
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| mornfall | actually, I sort of wish the builtin messaging app could natively proxy through bitlbee | 15:03 |
| mornfall | (plugging in ZNC in between would make it reasonably possible to share IM history between the phone and the laptop) | 15:03 |
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| Yaniel | hehe | 15:03 |
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| stn^ | hmh i've been thinking how my battery was drained quickly today, apparently mitakuuluu ran all day at around 98% cpu usage | 16:12 |
| raa70 | nice | 16:13 |
| raa70 | I was just about to whine to coderus why mitäkuuluu doesnt work in our workplace wlan... exept today it mysteriously worked | 16:13 |
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| pdanek | Should I go with btrfs or ext4 for microsd on Jolla? | 16:58 |
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| * Yaniel went for btrfs | 17:04 | |
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| pdanek | Yaniel: why? | 17:04 |
| Yaniel | and having to manually mount it after every reboot | 17:04 |
| Yaniel | it is (intended to be) better for flash memory | 17:05 |
| Yaniel | it also sounds funny | 17:05 |
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| pdanek | Yaniel: why manual mount? | 17:10 |
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| Yaniel | because automount does not work | 17:10 |
| Yaniel | except for fat32 and (maybe) exfat | 17:11 |
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| Nicd- | don't think it works for exfat yet | 17:11 |
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| Yaniel | anyway mount-sd-onboot.service fails | 17:12 |
| pdanek | ah | 17:12 |
| Yaniel | it might use something like mount.fat or mount -t fat32, haven't checked | 17:13 |
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| khertan | Hi, did you think it will be dangerous (explosion) of putting the battery with the jolla in a blender, or i should do it without the battery ? | 17:40 |
| chem|st | khertan: no should be fine with battery | 17:40 |
| roboro | but will it blend?!!! | 17:41 |
| chem|st | roboro: I am sure it does | 17:41 |
| Yaniel | with a sufficiently powerful blender... | 17:41 |
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| roboro | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy1WNc4buPk | 17:43 |
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| roboro | blendtec blender blending a blendtec blender | 17:44 |
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| Turski | yo dawg... | 17:53 |
| kimmoli | you forget to prefix "Hey, i have a funny video for you: " ?? | 17:53 |
| flanag | Damn.. it seems that I have to send my Jolla in for repairs, as I have the faulty sim card holder (you can test by taking the other half off and lightly pressing on the sim). Has anyone done this yet? How fast/slow is Optima service? | 17:53 |
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| flanag | (and if you don't know what's the problem, it's that the Jolla loses the sim card connection when in pocket and it also might cause all these random shutdowns/reboots) | 17:55 |
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| cb400f | using an "official" sim card? ... or home carved one? | 17:56 |
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| flanag | official, bought just for Jolla (I previously had a mini sim, not micro) | 17:57 |
| flanag | it's a known problem, nothing to do with the sim | 17:57 |
| flanag | here: https://together.jolla.com/question/1358/sim-card-connection-to-phone-lost-easily/ | 17:57 |
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| flanag | someone already sent it for repairs and said that it fixed the problem (pressing on the sim card holder no longer causes the sim to be lost) | 17:58 |
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| flanag | just writing here to see if anybody has anything to share about the Optima service | 17:59 |
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| Wnt | flanag: I had my Jolla's speaker changed in the Optima service. They were really fast | 18:01 |
| flanag | Thanks for sharing Wnt, how fast they were actually? Only a couple of days? | 18:02 |
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| Wnt | I left my phone for repair on tuesday and got it back on monday I think | 18:02 |
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| Wnt | so 4 business days if I remember correctly | 18:02 |
| flanag | Ok, not too bad | 18:03 |
| Wnt | and I guess 2 days out of that time it was the shipment from DNA store to them and back | 18:03 |
| flanag | it's just a shame that my old phone has a mini sim card slot and this micro sim really doesn't fit in there.. | 18:04 |
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| Wnt | flanag: use some bubblegum in between :D | 18:04 |
| flanag | :P | 18:04 |
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| flanag | I wonder how common this problem really is, are all the sim brackets faulty in the devices produced in 2013 for example? | 18:05 |
| Nicd- | you'd *know* if it was all of them | 18:07 |
| Nicd- | that would be a huge problem | 18:07 |
| Wnt | I have seen the "SIM error, must reboot" message few times on my device, but mobile data connections, calls etc. were working fine even after the message | 18:07 |
| Wnt | so I have just ignored the error messages | 18:08 |
| flanag | not necessarily Nicd-.. I didn't have the problem in the first months but it has appeared now | 18:08 |
| Nicd- | I've had no problems with the SIM at all | 18:08 |
| Nicd- | and I got one of the first devices | 18:08 |
| kimmoli | mee too. no problems. | 18:08 |
| flanag | I think the sim bracket might have loosened | 18:08 |
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| flanag | have you tried pressing on the sim bracket lightly? | 18:09 |
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| flanag | you would see if you have a faulty bracket | 18:09 |
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| jpnurmi | mornfall: i've kindly asked jolla dev care to lend me a device for communi-sailfish development. it's been about three weeks - no response | 18:10 |
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| Wnt | flanag: wow! the device complains about the simcard as soon as I pressed on the back cover | 18:10 |
| flanag | yup.. | 18:10 |
| mornfall | jpnurmi: jolla dev care, does that even exist? :P | 18:10 |
| ln- | my phone has had an issue with sim from the beginning... it just doesn't happen very often in my use case (i'm not keeping the phone in my pocket on a daily basis) | 18:10 |
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| Wnt | flanag: but after dismissing the dialog mobile data works without problems | 18:11 |
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| flanag | yeah but you know now that you have a faulty bracket :) | 18:11 |
| jpnurmi | mornfall: heh, that's what @jollahq forwarded me to. am i waiting for an answer from /dev/null? :P | 18:12 |
| flanag | someone said after a service that no matter how hard he pressed on the sim bracket, it didn't disconnect | 18:12 |
| flanag | so they definitely have identified the problem and it can be fixed | 18:13 |
| ln- | i had to press on the sim bracket to make the phone detect the sim at all. | 18:13 |
| mornfall | jpnurmi: no idea, all outside relations of jolla seem to be kinda /dev/null-ish | 18:13 |
| flanag | would really love to see how many people can make the sim connection fail if they press on the sim bracket | 18:14 |
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| mornfall | flanag: I can | 18:14 |
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| flanag | I'm thinking that all the devices produced in 2013 all faulty | 18:14 |
| mornfall | flanag: I suspect that's the case, yes | 18:14 |
| mornfall | tight pants and jolla don't mix | 18:15 |
| flanag | I'm just wondering why I had no problems in the beginning.. today I lost the sim connection twice | 18:15 |
| Nicd- | I had to press really hard | 18:15 |
| Nicd- | and remove TOH | 18:15 |
| mornfall | flanag: the phone is falling apart in more than one sense it seems :P I had lots of SW problems recently, so far removing the battery for 20 minutes has solved them | 18:16 |
| flanag | this problem is annoying because some have suspected that this also causes the sudden (and I mean sudden, just black out) shutdowns | 18:16 |
| mornfall | flanag: (~4 reboots yesterday, none today so far) | 18:16 |
| flanag | mornfall: have you seen the Jolla just power off (just goes black in a sec) and not restart? | 18:17 |
| Nicd- | I don't think the shutdown issue is because of the SIM connection | 18:18 |
| Nicd- | at least not the only reason | 18:18 |
| mornfall | flanag: once maybe, I don't remember really | 18:19 |
| flanag | I think it is because mine shutdown today (just went black, didn't reboot) and when I started it up and entered PIN -> bang, same again.. then I restarted again and just skipped the PIN question and it stayed on | 18:19 |
| flanag | after a while I rebooted it and entered my PIN now --> bang, again just shut itself after entering the ping and waiting 10 secs maybe | 18:20 |
| flanag | got it working now but I suspect this is connected to the sim bracket problem in some way | 18:20 |
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| ln- | flanag: i seem to be able to make the sim disconnect every time by pressing with my finger about 1cm below the flashlight. | 18:22 |
| flanag | yup, you definitely have the problem | 18:22 |
| ln- | an indeed the very first time that i entered a SIM to the phone, it was not detected at all, which was a bit unexpected. | 18:23 |
| ln- | +d | 18:23 |
| flanag | I think I am going to wait that we get the new update so if that messes something up, I can just send it for repair and get both problems fixed at the same time :P | 18:24 |
| ln- | good planning :) | 18:24 |
| Turski | flanag: i can't make it fail | 18:25 |
| flanag | Turski: did you take TOH off and then press (gently) on the sim bracket directly? | 18:25 |
| flanag | that way I can make it fail every time | 18:25 |
| Turski | flanag: i wouldn't call it a gentle press | 18:25 |
| ln- | i know three other Jolla users (very early adopters all), but at least none of them has ever mentioned SIM card trouble. | 18:26 |
| Turski | flanag: but yes, i took TOH off and pressed it | 18:26 |
| flanag | Turski: when did you get your Jolla? | 18:26 |
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| Turski | flanag: at the launching party | 18:27 |
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| flanag | ah ok, mine is from a DNA shop (nearly as soon as they started selling it) | 18:27 |
| flanag | is your production date 11/2013? I'm thinking yours might be earlier than mine, as you got it from the launch party | 18:27 |
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| Turski | flanag: yes | 18:28 |
| flanag | ok, well it's a relief for Jolla because if all the early (2013) devices were suffering from this, they would have a lot to repair | 18:28 |
| flanag | the problem is still fairly widespread I think | 18:29 |
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| Blizzz | heyo | 18:30 |
| keithzg | Hmm. I suppose I should actually bother putting a SIM in mine and testing that, just in case. | 18:30 |
| flanag | I wonder how painful it is to send the phone for repair if you are not from Finland? Will Jolla pay the postages? Luckily I don't have to think about this but some might have to | 18:30 |
| Turski | flanag: which operator you have? | 18:30 |
| flanag | Tele Finland | 18:30 |
| Turski | since i haven't had any problems with neither DNA's or Tele Finland's micro sims | 18:31 |
| flanag | (it's a new sim, just bought for Jolla) | 18:31 |
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| Turski | flanag: btw, are you 100% sure it's pushed till the very end of the slot? | 18:31 |
| Turski | (i assume yes) | 18:31 |
| flanag | I think it's just the bracket, as some people have sent it for service and it has been fixed (they are using the same sim) | 18:31 |
| Blizzz | my jolla is stuck in a infinite boot loop. recently I suffered https://together.jolla.com/question/7144/jolla-randomly-shuts-down/ which was only annoying, but since today my Jolla does not finish booting, but is stuck in an infinity loop. When I take out the battery and put it back again, it automatically starts to act likewise. anybody knows what to da? | 18:31 |
| flanag | it is pushed all the way | 18:31 |
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| flanag | Turski: http://foorumi.jollasuomi.fi/index.php/topic,25.30.html | 18:32 |
| Turski | flanag: that switch in the socket just looks very sensitive about the position | 18:32 |
| flanag | and: https://together.jolla.com/question/1358/sim-card-connection-to-phone-lost-easily/ | 18:32 |
| Stskeeps | Blizzz: recovery mode | 18:32 |
| Turski | flanag: i've had mode problems with random reboots/shutdowns | 18:32 |
| flanag | yup, it's sensitive but I think they have figured out how to fix it (replace it) | 18:32 |
| flanag | Stskeeps: do you have anything to share about this sim problem? would be nice to know | 18:33 |
| Turski | i don't believe they replace anything, other than whole device ;) | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | flanag: sorry; i'm just a dreamer and a sw guy :) | 18:33 |
| flanag | ok then :p | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | flanag: if you have a problem with your jolla and you suspect it's a hardware problem, contact care | 18:34 |
| Blizzz | is there an official howto? | 18:34 |
| Blizzz | Stskeeps: ^ | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | https://together.jolla.com/question/22079/howto-all-pc-users-recover-or-reset-a-device-that-is-stuck-in-boot-loop/ | 18:34 |
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| flanag | the fact that lifting the other half ends the reboot loops (at least some of them) would suggest that it's a sim problem | 18:35 |
| Sail0r | where is the eta bot? ;) | 18:35 |
| flanag | as someone said that lifting TOH helped even though they had removed the NFC tag | 18:36 |
| raa70 | it's on the same channel with half life 3 eta bot | 18:36 |
| Blizzz | thx, I'll try | 18:36 |
| Turski | Sail0r: it would just keep saying Soon™ | 18:37 |
| flanag | Turski: at least some have said that Optima service replaced their sim bracket (we can't of course know if Optima actually do that but I would believe so) | 18:37 |
| Sail0r | Turski: or "when it is done™" | 18:37 |
| Turski | Sail0r: ;) | 18:37 |
| keithzg | Hmm interesting, the only options for Network Mode are "Prefer 3G" and "2G Only", no "3G Only" eh? | 18:38 |
| flanag | yeah, that's been requested | 18:38 |
| Quu | you cant use 3G if there are no 3G | 18:38 |
| flanag | but Quu, in other operating systems you have the option for only 3G | 18:38 |
| Quu | it does the same as 3G preferred | 18:38 |
| Quu | its just named diffrently | 18:39 |
| flanag | I have seen 3G preferred, 2G only, 3G only | 18:39 |
| keithzg | Nope. | 18:39 |
| flanag | I think at least | 18:39 |
| keithzg | On the N9, I have it set to 3G only | 18:39 |
| Turski | i wouldn't want to lose all connectivity when out of 3G... | 18:39 |
| keithzg | which is different than 3G preferred. | 18:39 |
| Quu | Turski: seems like some people want to | 18:39 |
| keithzg | My carrier ONLY operates on 3G, any 2G connection is roaming for me. | 18:39 |
| flanag | yes you would want to lose it.. because atm the Jolla switches to 2G far too easily | 18:40 |
| ShadowJK | Because sometimes operator has phones go to 2g even if there's usable 3g signal | 18:40 |
| flanag | and that ruins everything really.. | 18:40 |
| flanag | as it takes too much time until it changes back to 3G | 18:40 |
| Turski | then prefer 3G is a lie.. | 18:40 |
| flanag | yeah | 18:40 |
| Turski | (just like the cake) | 18:40 |
| flanag | but I just think it's too sensitive | 18:41 |
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| ShadowJK | As I understand it, the phone reports signal strength of current tower, and all towers it can hear, and operator side tells phone when to change to something else | 18:41 |
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| flanag | my reception has been better on my Jolla than my previous phone but it just changes to 2G too easily, this has also been reported on together.jolla | 18:42 |
| ShadowJK | So "prefer 3g" is a lie in the sense that it assumes operator would want to steer phones to 3g, as its more efficient | 18:42 |
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| keithzg | Personally I'd be entirely okay with losing connectivity and having to manually drop down to 2G if my signal was truly that bad; again, that's exactly what I do with my N9. Obviously for the Jolla it's a purely academic point for me, but I can imagine others wanting (or needing) to preclude 2G usage, especially if folks are finding it too easily failing over anyways. | 18:43 |
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| flanag | keithzg, I agree | 18:43 |
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| flanag | I think there could even be a mode that would drop down to 2G only after the 3G signal has been lost for 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 seconds (whatever you prefer) | 18:44 |
| ljp | but then you would miss phone calls | 18:45 |
| flanag | I don't really care.. the phone is just too slow to change back to 3G | 18:45 |
| ShadowJK | Problem with all this is that you'd not get certificaton :-) | 18:45 |
| flanag | and it ruins everything if I need quickly look something up on the internet | 18:46 |
| ShadowJK | (i.e. phone wouldn't be allowed to be a phone if it doesn't follow rules) | 18:46 |
| keithzg | ShadowJK: Heh. Surely though "3G only" would pass certification (considering both the N9 and Android have it). | 18:46 |
| ShadowJK | Yes | 18:46 |
| flanag | they should at least include that | 18:46 |
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| ShadowJK | Afaiui, phone logs off, then logs in again claiming it doesn't do 2g | 18:47 |
| flanag | I don't really know anything, but I think that this 3G only mode shouldn't be too hard to implement | 18:48 |
| flanag | or what do you say? | 18:48 |
| ShadowJK | Well it all depends on whether the modem supports it or not :j | 18:48 |
| tango_ | hm so I turned off my jolla today to put in the microsim (first time since I bought it), I turn it back on and *puff* the media library forgot all the stuff that was on the sd card | 18:49 |
| flanag | well I think all the android phones have this option and Jolla is using similar (or exactly the same) hardware | 18:49 |
| tango_ | two questions (1) is it a known problem and (2) if so is there an easy way to tell jolla to rescan | 18:49 |
| flanag | I think there was a way to tell it to rescan | 18:49 |
| flanag | and I also think it is known | 18:49 |
| tango_ | (the media app is pretty sucky btw when there are lots of artists songs and albums, due to the lack of a search functionality, but that's a different thing) | 18:50 |
| keithzg | It's still tracker, right? | 18:50 |
| keithzg | So probably tracker-control --hard-reset | 18:50 |
| keithzg | Although that'd force a full reset of it all AFAIK | 18:51 |
| flanag | might be that, I can't find where I saw it before | 18:51 |
| keithzg | I'd try "tracker-control --help-all" and look through and see if there's a less-nuclear option, heh. | 18:52 |
| flanag | might be a good plan to do that first, yeah | 18:52 |
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| flanag | so, anyone else want to try if their phone has the sim bracket problem? | 18:53 |
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| Blizzz | Stskeeps: needed some attempts, but now it is alive again. thank you so much for the hint! | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | flanag: fwiw it's not a good idea to press in general | 18:53 |
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| flanag | Stskeeps: I only need to touch it really | 18:54 |
| flanag | I'm not breaking anything | 18:54 |
| flanag | and it also happens in my pocket | 18:54 |
| keithzg | flanag: I actually just tried pushing gently on the SIM bracket on mine after putting in a SIM card, since it's not like I'm likely to ever be able to *use* it anyways, heh. But even a fairly firm push didn't disconnect it. | 18:54 |
| flanag | it just would be nice to know if some of the reboots/shut downs are connected to this sim bracket problem | 18:55 |
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| flanag | as I said earlier, lifting the other half usually ends the reboot loop, so it seems to be connected | 18:55 |
| flanag | *connected to the problem I mean | 18:56 |
| ln- | flanag: i just asked two people, and 50% of them could reproduce the issue, although had not encountered disconnects otherwise. | 18:56 |
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| Nicd- | purposefully pressing on the sim card holder is asking for trouble though :P | 18:56 |
| flanag | yeah, I just think that it gets loosened after a while and that's why many people don't see any problems (without pressing) | 18:57 |
| Nicd- | I got a disconnect too like that but I don't have issues otherwise | 18:57 |
| flanag | I didn't see any problems in the first months | 18:57 |
| flanag | but now I have started getting these | 18:57 |
| Nicd- | flanag: do you remove your SIM often? | 18:57 |
| flanag | nope | 18:57 |
| flanag | never have | 18:57 |
| flanag | I only use my Jolla :) | 18:58 |
| Nicd- | ok, me neither | 18:58 |
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| ln- | without TOH on, a very gentle touch to the upper half of the SIM is enough to disconnect it. | 18:59 |
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| flanag | would be also nice to see some communication between Jolla and Optima service as I want to know if they actually replace the sim bracket (with a one that's somehow different) | 19:00 |
| flanag | no bother sending it for service if they just try it on and say: "Well, whatever it seems to start, there are no problems. We will send it back and said we did something." | 19:01 |
| flanag | seems to be quite common for all these services to think that the users are idiots (and they just flash the software and say they fixed it..) | 19:02 |
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| flanag | how many here have experienced the reboot loop that can be solved just by lifting the other half? if these people also have the sim bracket problems, we could be quite sure that the problems are related | 19:05 |
| ln- | does one require care's approval before sending the phone to optima for repair? | 19:05 |
| ln- | (in this particular case) | 19:05 |
| flanag | good question ln-, I would like to know about that as well (as I have a DNA shop just here) | 19:06 |
| flanag | can I just give it to them? or do I have to contact Care first? | 19:06 |
| flanag | (I bought it from DNA, didn't order from Jolla's webshop) | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | ah, might have to go to dna then i think? | 19:07 |
| ln- | if you bought it from DNA, i think you obviously can give it to them... | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not sure | 19:07 |
| flanag | well, it never hurts to ask first :p | 19:07 |
| flanag | I suspected that as well, as usually the shop is responsible to deal with the warranty | 19:08 |
| ln- | because at least in finland, it's the reseller's (and not the manufacturer's) responsibility to fix a consumer's malfunctioning device. | 19:08 |
| flanag | yeah | 19:09 |
| flanag | well anyway, anything on this: "how many here have experienced the reboot loop that can be solved just by lifting the other half? if these people also have the sim bracket problems, we could be quite sure that the problems are related"? | 19:09 |
| ln- | even though many resellers try to outsource their responsibility to somewhere else | 19:09 |
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| AL13N | pp_: the kernel-devel is not available... (are you a jolla dev, could you help me out and build the cachefiles module?) so i can test it? | 19:42 |
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| Stskeeps | AL13N: is cachefiles in 3.4.0? | 19:43 |
| AL13N | it's in 2.6 too :-) | 19:44 |
| AL13N | yes | 19:44 |
| AL13N | zcat /proc/config.gz | grep -i cache | 19:44 |
| AL13N | # Caches | 19:44 |
| AL13N | # CONFIG_FSCACHE is not set | 19:44 |
| AL13N | i think fscache needs to be enabled and then the cachefiles module below that | 19:45 |
| AL13N | but i'm unsure | 19:45 |
| AL13N | i'll check kernel.org | 19:45 |
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| AL13N | it's from 2009 in the kernel.org tree... so, i guess it's old enough | 19:47 |
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| AL13N | Stskeeps: https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git/tree/fs/cachefiles/Kconfig?id=refs/tags/v3.4.82 | 19:49 |
| AL13N | config CACHEFILES tristate "Filesystem caching on files" depends on FSCACHE && BLOCK | 19:49 |
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| AL13N | if anyone can build me the module, i get started in the cachefilesd program | 19:50 |
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| AL13N | well cachefilesd was pretty easy... | 19:56 |
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| AL13N | Sage-: pp_: special: lbt: tbr: Aard: anyone wanna build me the cachefiles module? i got the cachefilesd program built locally, so i can test if this improves NFS stability/performance . i promise that if it works that i'll contribute this to mer-tools | 19:58 |
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| Sage- | AL13N: cachefiles kernel module? | 20:07 |
| AL13N | yes | 20:08 |
| AL13N | (it's meant for NFS and CIFS, so ) | 20:08 |
| AL13N | if i can have build from you guys, i could test it and see if it runs ok-ish | 20:09 |
| AL13N | if it does, i can contribute cachefilesd for mer-tools) | 20:09 |
| AL13N | Sage-: ^^ | 20:09 |
| AL13N | maybe i could git clone with that exact tree, and rsync to device and try to build it like that | 20:13 |
| AL13N | not sure if it would work, iinm insmod does check quite a few parameters before it allows you to insert it | 20:13 |
| AL13N | kernel isn't my biggest forte in linux development | 20:14 |
| mornfall | so, in settings, when you add an app icon to favorites and then sync mail, the settings cover goes blank | 20:14 |
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| flanag | I have also seen the blank cover when downloading and then doing some actions on the file from file transfers (if I remember correctly) | 20:16 |
| mornfall | hmm, if I have 5 settings favorites and 3 app favorites it doesn't happen | 20:16 |
| mornfall | when it's 4+1 (or +more) it does | 20:17 |
| Stskeeps | mornfall: hrrm; when next update comes and it still exists; file a bug please | 20:17 |
| mornfall | Stskeeps: file a bug where? :-) | 20:17 |
| flanag | together | 20:17 |
| mornfall | hm, it's kinda slippery | 20:19 |
| flanag | slippery? | 20:19 |
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| mornfall | yeah, I removed and added favorites and it doesn't happen now with 4+4 | 20:19 |
| flanag | yeah, well I can confirm the cover disappearing in the download situation | 20:20 |
| mornfall | and it starts happening after I restart settings | 20:20 |
| flanag | quite weird | 20:20 |
| mornfall | so the reproducer might be add 4 apps settings to favorites, restart settings, sync email | 20:20 |
| mornfall | flanag: does it stay gone? the settings cover doubles as transfer notification | 20:21 |
| mornfall | it shows a circle and 2 actions | 20:21 |
| flanag | nah it's not connected to that | 20:21 |
| flanag | it happens after I have done some action on the file (after the download) | 20:21 |
| flanag | I think at least | 20:21 |
| flanag | I can't remember it exactly now | 20:21 |
| mornfall | hmm, syncing again makes the cover come back too :D | 20:22 |
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| Raim | AL13N: arg, answered in the wrong channel. I can give it a try to build this module, is it just CONFIG_FSCACHE=m? what other options do you need? | 20:25 |
| Sage- | AL13N: ^ :) | 20:26 |
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| AL13N | Raim: config CACHEFILES tristate "Filesystem caching on files" depends on FSCACHE && BLOCK | 20:28 |
| AL13N | CACHEFILES is the one | 20:28 |
| AL13N | it depends on fs-cache | 20:28 |
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| AL13N | i just want a binary module for 1.0.3.8 | 20:29 |
| AL13N | so i can test it out and see how it goes | 20:29 |
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| AL13N | Raim: https://github.com/KonstaT/sailfishos_kernel_jolla_msm8930/tree/8257cdaa4ad1d0d7643ad0146b8cf5c67b858720/fs/cachefiles | 20:29 |
| Raim | AL13N: yep, I think you will need both fscache.ko and cachefiles.ko | 20:30 |
| AL13N | with the unreliable wifi, i'm trying to see if this can help me out, since it'll likely fetch the file completely | 20:30 |
| AL13N | yes | 20:30 |
| Raim | let me do a quick test if I can load them | 20:31 |
| Raim | AL13N: here, https://raim.codingfarm.de/jolla/cachefiles/ | 20:34 |
| Raim | AL13N: let me know if you also need any CONFIG_FSCACHE_DEBUG= or something | 20:34 |
| AL13N | probably not, thanks alot | 20:39 |
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| Raim | already had the tree ready from experiments with the exfat module, so no big deal | 20:43 |
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| AL13N | Raim: thanks! | 20:44 |
| AL13N | Raim: it seems i was at least able to load it | 20:44 |
| AL13N | now to start the cachefilesd stuff and see how things go | 20:45 |
| Raim | yeah, that's the only thing I checked so no symbols are missing | 20:45 |
| sharpneli | I was at igda today and my Jolla failed a basic usability test. Taking a picture while at pub. | 20:45 |
| flanag | why? | 20:45 |
| Stskeeps | sharpneli: what happened? | 20:45 |
| sharpneli | Camera app crashed while I tried to set flash on | 20:45 |
| Stskeeps | crashed or device died, too? | 20:45 |
| sharpneli | Just crashed | 20:45 |
| Stskeeps | hmmm | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | that's a new one | 20:46 |
| sharpneli | So the comments around the table were "that's Jolla" :( | 20:46 |
| flanag | Stskeeps: btw, can you get a word to a Jolla employee that can read Finnish that they should check this thread here: http://foorumi.jollasuomi.fi/index.php/topic,240.0.html | 20:46 |
| flanag | it's got a lot of information on the shutting down problem | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | flanag: i think people are following those things | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | (i'm not finnish) | 20:47 |
| flanag | I know, that's why I specified it in my post :) | 20:47 |
| flanag | (that you are not Finnish) | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | sharpneli: hope next update solves a large portition of those kind of issues.. | 20:48 |
| flanag | some people on that thread got their sim card holder replaced (and also their battery but I am not sure if that really affected it) and it seemed to solve the shutdown problem (it also solved the sim card disconnection problem) | 20:49 |
| Turski | well, if those are being replaced, i'm pretty much sure that Jolla is already aware about that... | 20:50 |
| flanag | it doesn't seem that they are | 20:50 |
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| flanag | or their communication is really lacking | 20:50 |
| flanag | there are tons of people on the thread with these problems | 20:50 |
| Turski | for me it just looks like they don't want to admit or tell about problems... | 20:51 |
| Stskeeps | it's not so simple as that.. | 20:51 |
| Turski | don't want / can't / aren't allowed or something | 20:51 |
| flanag | well, you are probably in a big hurry now, so I am not blaming you | 20:51 |
| Stskeeps | as an example, telling about a problem usually means that people then want it fixed; but that requires knowing what the problem is in the first place and what the fix is | 20:51 |
| Stskeeps | and waiting 3 months for a care case isn't exactly going to help people's moods | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | not talking specifically about this problem, fwiw | 20:52 |
| flanag | I'm pretty sure already that it is the sim card holder (of course that's only my opinion but at least Jolla should inspect the problem) | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | admitting problems is easy but the follow up is 'so what are you going to do about it', which is a very fun issue to deal with when your device is made by >100 suppliers | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | at least we can be quite open on the sw issues | 20:53 |
| flanag | yeah, I just can't send my device in for repair and then get it back with a notice "software upgraded" | 20:53 |
| flanag | it's just so annoying when the service thinks people are idiots | 20:54 |
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| Stskeeps | https://xkcd.com/806/ | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:54 |
| flanag | :) | 20:55 |
| flanag | my point just is that if this problem was more "official" maybe they would just straight away replace the sim card holder as it's known that it probably solves it | 20:56 |
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| Stskeeps | if anybody is having problems with their jolla and they think it's a hardware issue, contact your point of purchase, be it jolla care or dna, i think | 20:56 |
| Stskeeps | in any mass production there's a risk of bad devices; because you can't keep up production and do 100% QA (this is exaggrated) | 20:57 |
| flanag | yeah but the link that you posted explains the problem with that :) | 20:57 |
| flanag | (just going to a store and saying "fix this") | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | nod | 20:57 |
| ali1234 | also people are hypochondriacs and will assume that every problem they have is caused by the problem you just announced | 20:58 |
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| Stskeeps | i only speak on behalf of myself; fwiw | 20:58 |
| ali1234 | the iphone "holding it wrong" thing was a good example of that | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | but only way to really start a process is to explain your symptoms and why you think they're not sw issues | 20:59 |
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| slate | flanag: its also annoying when people think service are idiots | 21:00 |
| flanag | slate: well.. | 21:00 |
| flanag | the service people aren't idiots, I'm not saying that | 21:00 |
| slate | sw-updates can fix pretty weird problems. Some that people think cant be sw-related | 21:01 |
| flanag | slate: SW can't fix a sim card disconnection (that can be verified by gently touching the sim card holder) | 21:01 |
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| flanag | someone already explained this problem on TMO | 21:01 |
| flanag | it's caused by the little golden triangle that (if I remember correctly) detects if the sim card is in place | 21:02 |
| pp_ | some linksys routers used to be overclocked, some part only worked reliably when it was slightly hot :-) | 21:02 |
| flanag | heh | 21:03 |
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| flanag | if anyone wants to check: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92243&page=4 | 21:05 |
| flanag | there's the explanation | 21:05 |
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| slate | I'm familiar with that, I'm not saying all can be fixed by sw ;) | 21:06 |
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| slate | maybe add 10ms timeout before disconnect if the switch cuts out for a short while etc. aka. purkkaviritys. | 21:07 |
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| ali1234 | i had a phone once that i was convinced it had some problem with the simcard holder | 21:07 |
| ali1234 | it would just randomly stop seeing the sim | 21:08 |
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| ali1234 | i had all bits of paper and stuff jammed in to make it "work" | 21:08 |
| ali1234 | then one day i got a new sim and it worked fine after that | 21:08 |
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| ali1234 | http://relativity.fi/jolla_sim/sim_problem.JPG <- those are the other half pogopins in the right side, yes? | 21:11 |
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| slate | I'd replace the sim, at least tried that | 21:12 |
| ali1234 | i didn't realise the pins were in the main body, i thought they'd have to be built on to the other half | 21:13 |
| ali1234 | (i only skimmed the docs and don't have a jolla yet) | 21:13 |
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| eyea_uk | Does any know any specs on Jolla 2 device | 21:26 |
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| keithzg | eyea_uk: I suspect even Jolla doesn't, other than maybe a wishlist and some parts-sourcing investigations ;) | 21:27 |
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| eyea | Jolla )olla job | 21:28 |
| eyea | joh | 21:28 |
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| flanag | Didn't get that.. | 21:28 |
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| eyea | Jolla | 21:28 |
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| flanag | heh, purkkaviritys is a nice word | 21:28 |
| flanag | well, I'll wait for the next update anyway but I am not too hopeful that it fixes it | 21:28 |
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| flanag | yeah but it's not that in my case, as I've got a new sim (and many many many many other people are having this same issue) | 21:28 |
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| AL13N | Raim: Sage-: bad luck :-( ... after mounting nfs points with fsc option, it still says fsc=no in /proc/fs/nfsfs/volumes | 22:08 |
| AL13N | even though /proc/mounts shows fsc fine | 22:08 |
| AL13N | giving up for now, to be continued | 22:09 |
| * zbenjamin wonders when the new update will be here | 22:10 | |
| zbenjamin | shouldn't it be already ? ;) | 22:10 |
| Nicd- | no | 22:11 |
| AL13N | is there a specific reason you want a new update? | 22:11 |
| AL13N | we'll get the update when they release it | 22:11 |
| Raim | AL13N: hm, there is also a CONFIG_NFS_FSCACHE | 22:12 |
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| AL13N | Raim: don't tell me it's disabled :-( | 22:12 |
| AL13N | ah wait | 22:12 |
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| AL13N | it's not the same thing | 22:12 |
| AL13N | ah no, i got it wrong | 22:13 |
| AL13N | Raim: does it depend on FSCACHE? | 22:13 |
| AL13N | Raim: it's weird, cause the /proc/fs/nfsfs/volumes does mention FSC | 22:13 |
| AL13N | i would expect it not to mention it if it wasn't enabled | 22:14 |
| AL13N | but then, i can be wrong | 22:14 |
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| Raim | AL13N: haven't checked, only saw it when I changed the config | 22:14 |
| AL13N | Raim: ah | 22:14 |
| AL13N | Raim: sadly, that'll probably not be easy to rebuild | 22:15 |
| Raim | so, yes, it must depend on FSCACHE because I did not see it before | 22:15 |
| AL13N | (i got confused with RPC caching earlier) | 22:15 |
| Frye | Hmm, any Idea where the local calendar is stored? And can it be manually backed up? | 22:17 |
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| Raim | AL13N: try this module, https://raim.codingfarm.de/jolla/cachefiles/nfs.ko with CONFIG_NFS_FSCACHE=y | 22:18 |
| AL13N | hmm | 22:18 |
| Raim | AL13N: but you need to 'modprobe nfs; rmmod nfs; insmod ./nfs.ko' to load dependencies first | 22:21 |
| AL13N | Raim: now, FSC is yes | 22:21 |
| Raim | alright :-) | 22:21 |
| AL13N | i just rmmod nfs and insmod nfs the new module | 22:21 |
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| Raim | yes, should be enough if you had it loaded before | 22:23 |
| AL13N | ok, it's doing some caching now at least | 22:24 |
| AL13N | i wonder if it works when network is down | 22:24 |
| AL13N | hmm, it did work for a while, but now it's hanging | 22:29 |
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| AL13N | we'll test it out some more and see how good it is | 22:33 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: Any new timeframe on a Nexus 4 beta build? I have not yet obtained a replacement phone for my wife, but I'm working on that so I can use her Nexus 4 as a test device for you. | 22:33 |
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| dwangoAC | I just want to make sure I have the phone swap done in time for your schedule. | 22:34 |
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