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| yogi | so, my jolla is stuck in a reboot loop :( | 10:24 |
|---|---|---|
| Nicd- | pull the battery for 10 minutes | 10:25 |
| yogi | I can get it into recovery mode (well, I think -- top left of screen says "fastboot mode") but can't get usb networking to work | 10:25 |
| yogi | I left the battery out overnight to no avail | 10:25 |
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| yogi | have tried both windows (with the rndis driver install etc) and linux (modprobing usbnet/cdc_ether etc.) | 10:26 |
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| yogi | will try the battery thing again as it's acting even more weird now (only way to switch on is by plugging in USB) | 10:27 |
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| clau | yogi, have you done something that might have caused it? | 10:32 |
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| yogi | not really - it's possible the fs needs a fsck. It went into the loop last night while it was in my pocket, but I'd been taking the back cover off earlier in the day to demo TOH | 10:33 |
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| yogi | it was doing a lot of random reboots yesterday, and I had to issue a few manual reboots due to stuff glitching out (problems with network connection etc.) | 10:36 |
| clau | have you tried to search on together.jolla.com for this issue? maybe there are some useful advices there. | 10:37 |
| yogi | yeah, they suggest using recovery mode to fix it with either fsck or factory reset | 10:37 |
| yogi | but I can't get usb networking in recovery mode to work | 10:38 |
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| yogi | I've been using my old N9 usb cable though, but I doubt that makes a difference | 10:40 |
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| yogi | OK - so after 10 mins, power button works again w/ battery in, but it just displays image with usb cable pointing to stripey power square thing. So presumably battery is a bit dead from all the looping. So I plug in USB, and then it just goes into a loop again :( | 10:42 |
| yogi | so unplug USB, loop stops and it's dead. Replug in USB with volume down held, goes into fastboot mode, but still no USB networking :( | 10:44 |
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| yogi | LED is solid blue once in fastboot if that means anything | 10:48 |
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| FireFly | I could get you the list of LED patterns if you want to match against that, but I don't know more about them than you do | 11:02 |
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| yogi | yeah, I just noticed in https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sailfish/Backup_Device they talk about the LED going red once networking is up | 11:03 |
| yogi | of course following that, the "fastboot -i 0x2931 boot boot-telnet-initrd.img" step fails because of the bootloader update | 11:04 |
| yogi | (presumably) | 11:04 |
| FireFly | Does 'solid blue' mean no blinking? is it blue as in #00F or more cyan-y blue? | 11:05 |
| FireFly | Oh, yeah | 11:05 |
| yogi | no blinking, light blue | 11:05 |
| yogi | so yeah more cyan-y | 11:06 |
| FireFly | Hm | 11:06 |
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| FireFly | "PatternDeviceOn=254;0;0;0;0;0000ff" "PatternDeviceSoftOff=253;0;0;0;0;00ffff" | 11:06 |
| FireFly | Either of those, I guess | 11:06 |
| yogi | "fastboot -i 0x2931 reboot" works in that it triggers the reboot loop | 11:06 |
| FireFly | You could perhaps ask Stskeeps tomorrow or something | 11:07 |
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| yogi | looks like I'm in the same boat as this guy: https://together.jolla.com/question/30671/unable-to-recover-i-can-get-only-to-fastboot-mode-and-it-doesnt-answer-to-pc/ | 11:35 |
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| yogi | syslog indicates I had rndis working at one point, but can't figure out how to do it | 11:35 |
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| tbr | yogi: make sure you try also with the usb cable disconnected to enter recovery | 11:37 |
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| yogi | tbr: I think the battery is too flat to do that | 11:39 |
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| yogi | trying to find a way of charging it | 11:39 |
| Venemo | good morning guys :) | 11:39 |
| yogi | obvious approach results in boot loop which doesn't seem to effective at charging | 11:40 |
| yogi | *too | 11:40 |
| yogi | I've managed to somehow get it stuck in a state where it is frozen with the jolla logo showing only, hopefully that'll work | 11:41 |
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| yogi | yay, progress! | 11:50 |
| yogi | got into telnet finally | 11:50 |
| yogi | and it boots! (after doing the btrfs recovery) | 11:52 |
| tbr | so was it the usb cable? | 11:52 |
| yogi | so the trick was to do PWR+VOLDN with USB connected to power not to laptop | 11:53 |
| tbr | ah | 11:53 |
| yogi | if I did it with laptop, it entered fastboot mode which is apparently different to recovery mode (despite some misinformation out there to the contrary) | 11:53 |
| tbr | yes, very different :) | 11:54 |
| yogi | such a relief that it's working again now | 11:54 |
| yogi | only took 3 hours :) | 11:54 |
| * tbr can imagine that | 11:54 | |
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| clau | yogi, congrats :) | 12:27 |
| clau | make sure you vote on the solution(s), if you found it on TJC, so people have a better chance to solve it themselves. | 12:27 |
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| yogi | yeah I added a comment to the main TJC q/a about boot loops | 12:29 |
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| kimmoli | promoting rather old answer https://together.jolla.com/question/1009/gallery-zooming-in-and-out-to-photos/?answer=5375#post-id-5375 | 12:43 |
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| chem|st | yogi: for the next time, the device seems to charge in recovery mode (Jolla logo) | 13:30 |
| yogi | ah cool, thanks | 13:31 |
| chem|st | at least my sister's got out of the bootlooping issues with 98% battery | 13:32 |
| chem|st | she tried to get to the recovery screen on the device for +30min | 13:32 |
| chem|st | then I helped her another 30min and finally it was booting again | 13:33 |
| chem|st | some time in between it was stuck on the jolla screen without interaction so that would mean it charges (was never confirmed by anyone) | 13:33 |
| Venemo | how does this even happen? my jolla's never had any such issues | 13:34 |
| chem|st | Venemo: the btrfs gets corrupted | 13:34 |
| Venemo | chem|st: how? | 13:34 |
| chem|st | probably powerloss during write | 13:34 |
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| Venemo | heh | 13:34 |
| Venemo | how is that possible? | 13:35 |
| Venemo | taking out the battery at the wrong moment? | 13:35 |
| clau | and why doesn't btrfs self heal? | 13:35 |
| Venemo | because it's shit? | 13:36 |
| clau | older, less sophisticated fs's do a better job at that | 13:36 |
| chem|st | could be several things happening lie the bat goes flat or a controller has hickup and bootloops without shutdown | 13:36 |
| Venemo | I had a btrfs partition on my laptop which decided it ran out of space, even though the partition was half empty | 13:36 |
| clau | that's a reasonable answer, venemo :) | 13:36 |
| chem|st | Venemo: inodes... | 13:37 |
| Venemo | fortunately, the guys at #btrfs were quite helpful and showed me how to rebalance it | 13:37 |
| chem|st | what was it? | 13:37 |
| clau | newfs ? :P | 13:37 |
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| Venemo | what was what? | 13:38 |
| chem|st | clau: do you know a bootloader being able to repair a bootpartition's fs on the fly | 13:38 |
| chem|st | Venemo: what did you do to fix it? | 13:38 |
| clau | I'm not into that stuff, all I can compare it to is desktops. | 13:39 |
| Venemo | chem|st: I rebalanced the filesystem according to: https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Problem_FAQ#I_get_.22No_space_left_on_device.22_errors.2C_but_df_says_I.27ve_got_lots_of_space | 13:39 |
| clau | chem|st: why would the bootloader have to deal with it anyway? | 13:40 |
| chem|st | Venemo: so yes the fs occupies all metadata space | 13:41 |
| clau | how corrupt has the fs have to be such that the bootloader can't load the kernel etc | 13:41 |
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| Venemo | chem|st: it seems that btrfs doesn't handle well the use cases when there's a LOT of small files | 13:41 |
| chem|st | clau: when the bootpartition is corrupted the bootloader is the only one who could repair it | 13:41 |
| Venemo | chem|st: from that time on, I basically had to rebalance it every month or so | 13:41 |
| chem|st | hmm | 13:42 |
| clau | I'm sorry, but my bootloader on desktop never had this issue. | 13:42 |
| chem|st | that is something they need to fix, cause that makes it basically unfit for / | 13:42 |
| clau | the os always deals with fs corruption. | 13:42 |
| chem|st | clau: you never had a corrupted disk? | 13:42 |
| Venemo | chem|st: this was maybe a year and a half ago, I'm sure they've improved it a lot since then | 13:42 |
| Venemo | chem|st: anyway, I decided not to take any more chances and I don't use btrfs on the laptop | 13:43 |
| clau | oh, I had. but not as bad as to not be able to load the kernel. | 13:43 |
| clau | if it gets so corrupted, there's something terribly wrong with the fs. | 13:43 |
| chem|st | clau: remove the fstables from your boot partition and reboot... you will see that you wont get anywhere without a second partition you can boot into a recovery mode | 13:44 |
| Venemo | also, I'm not sure how old the btrfs implementation of the jolla is | 13:44 |
| Venemo | I know they backported it from a newer kernel or something | 13:44 |
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| Venemo | but I heard it's still incompatible with recent kernels... | 13:45 |
| clau | chem|st: why can that happen? | 13:45 |
| chem|st | powerloss while the table gets written | 13:45 |
| clau | it's not done correctly then. | 13:46 |
| clau | see freebsd's softupdates for instance. | 13:46 |
| chem|st | that is why any machine with raid or fancy setups should have a recovery partition or batteries | 13:46 |
| Venemo | so, don't unplug the battery then the firmware is being updated | 13:46 |
| Gordon` | I just hard-reseted my Jolla, and while reinstalling apps, I get “void Package::InstallTransactionPkgKit::giveUpOrRetry(const QString&) "could not find package sailfish-maps"” in my logs, and can’t install some apps | 13:47 |
| chem|st | clau: sure but be aware there is always a way how to fuckup a partition | 13:47 |
| Gordon` | do someone know how to fix this? | 13:47 |
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| clau | chem|st: no doubt about it :) | 13:47 |
| chem|st | that is why they are working so hard on it, I had no corrupted partitions for at least 5 years now and am pretty impressed | 13:47 |
| clau | I'm just saying it can be improved. | 13:48 |
| Venemo | Gordon`: have you updated to the latest software version since the hard reset? | 13:48 |
| chem|st | clau: btrfs is young, give it some more years | 13:48 |
| Gordon` | yes, I’m in 1.0.3.8 | 13:48 |
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| chem|st | clau: and as we are talking, it could also be that the controler is stuck | 13:49 |
| chem|st | so completely unrelated to the actual fs | 13:49 |
| Gordon` | I also get some “Device not registered -- skipping credential update” | 13:49 |
| chem|st | Gordon`: your jolla account is not working as expected | 13:49 |
| chem|st | what does ssu domain say? | 13:50 |
| Venemo | Gordon`: I have no idea, maybe someone from Jolla can help - have you tried asking on together? | 13:50 |
| Gordon` | chem|st: how can I see that? | 13:50 |
| chem|st | did you enter the account? | 13:50 |
| chem|st | have you developer mode? | 13:51 |
| Gordon` | yes | 13:51 |
| Gordon` | (for both questions) | 13:51 |
| chem|st | ok | 13:51 |
| chem|st | on terminal | 13:51 |
| chem|st | ssu domain | 13:51 |
| chem|st | what does it tell | 13:51 |
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| Gordon` | “Device domain is currently: sales” | 13:52 |
| chem|st | ok | 13:52 |
| chem|st | ssu ur | 13:53 |
| Gordon` | no output | 13:53 |
| chem|st | did you touch activation developer repos in settings? | 13:53 |
| Gordon` | nope | 13:54 |
| chem|st | ok,please don't | 13:54 |
| chem|st | pkcon refresh | 13:54 |
| chem|st | output? | 13:55 |
| Gordon` | update done without errors | 13:56 |
| Gordon` | trying to install again | 13:56 |
| chem|st | pkcon update | 13:56 |
| Gordon` | done without errors. Then I tried to install the app, and the phone halted… | 13:58 |
| Gordon` | that’s because of those halts that I hard-reseted in first place | 13:58 |
| Gordon` | so, I guess my phone is still unusable… | 13:58 |
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| Venemo | let's hope the march update will fix everything | 13:59 |
| chem|st | if your account is unable to sync with jolla it will get stuck in the request | 13:59 |
| chem|st | ehrm unable logging in | 13:59 |
| Gordon` | Venemo: I really hope so | 14:00 |
| chem|st | I had that too, I reset my device like 5 times till everything was working like expected | 14:00 |
| Gordon` | I don’t know if this error is related to the reboot, but I got 3 of that: | 14:00 |
| Gordon` | Store::Server::slotLikesListFinished:900 - Store::Server::slotLikesListFinished | 14:00 |
| chem|st | is it a big deal to factory reset again? | 14:00 |
| Gordon` | Store::Server::slotLikesListFinished:901 - error code: 0 | 14:00 |
| Gordon` | just before the halt | 14:00 |
| Gordon` | nope | 14:01 |
| chem|st | oh that sounds like harbour is fscked up | 14:01 |
| Gordon` | fsck indeed :/ | 14:01 |
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| Gordon` | so, do you think I should hard-reset as soon as I encounter an unwanted halt? | 14:01 |
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| chem|st | try the soft way, go to settings and reset there, once booting again skip everything | 14:02 |
| Venemo | man, how glad I am that I've never hardreseted and my jolla never had any of these issues | 14:02 |
| chem|st | the whole starting stuff just skip it | 14:02 |
| chem|st | then enter the jolla account in settings and see what happens then, reboot, install devel (to have terminal later if need be) and then start upgrading | 14:04 |
| chem|st | being in 2.5 do not upgrade to 3.8 | 14:05 |
| chem|st | do not install openrepos or anything, leave android support uninstalled | 14:05 |
| chem|st | check what you can do from there | 14:06 |
| Gordon` | GRMBL, boot loop, as soon as I soft-reseted… | 14:06 |
| Gordon` | well, the loop stopped itself | 14:07 |
| chem|st | uh | 14:07 |
| chem|st | does it boot again or is it stuck in bootlooping? | 14:07 |
| Gordon` | nope, the loop has ended | 14:08 |
| Gordon` | and now it shows me the standard welcome menu | 14:08 |
| chem|st | so it is booted again? | 14:08 |
| chem|st | ok skip everything | 14:08 |
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| chem|st | setup wlan, setup jolla account | 14:09 |
| chem|st | you might want to see if you get a new oauth token on jolla.com | 14:09 |
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| Gordon` | yes | 14:12 |
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| Gordon` | after the setup of my account, rebooted, the OH was recognized, but the ambience installation failed | 14:15 |
| chem|st | I think there is something wrong with your account, not your phone | 14:16 |
| Gordon` | I’ll still try to upgrade the system | 14:17 |
| chem|st | Gordon`: have you setup a nickname for your account for together? | 14:19 |
| chem|st | people reported that using their email for the account on the device did cause this kind of behaviour | 14:20 |
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| chem|st | using the nickname did work for them | 14:20 |
| chem|st | https://together.jolla.com/question/2606/cannot-install-apps-from-harbour/?answer=12337#post-id-12337 | 14:21 |
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| Gordon` | oh, well | 14:22 |
| Gordon` | I’m downloading the 1.0.12.5, I will thange my settings after | 14:23 |
| chem|st | ok, if that does not help I am out of info, it happened to me once in Dec and never afterwards so either wait for some jolla guys or contact care, maybe your account needs to be reset on their end | 14:24 |
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| Gordon` | chem|st: the nickname for my account on together is “gordon”, but how do I set that on the device? | 14:43 |
| Gordon` | logging in with that username doesn’t work | 14:43 |
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| Gordon` | oh, that was the wrong login >_< | 15:02 |
| Gordon` | but as I entered the good, the device restarded. Again. | 15:02 |
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| chem|st | Gordon`: did it just restart? or bootlooping again | 15:16 |
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| Gordon` | a simple restart | 15:27 |
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| Gordon` | and just now, I downloaded 1.0.3.8, started the install, and it just rebooted | 15:27 |
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| chem|st | Gordon`: everything working now? | 15:48 |
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| Gordon` | chem|st: yes, for now. I’ll wait for reboots now | 16:14 |
| Gordon` | (and restore my data) | 16:14 |
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| Trizt | sailfish 1.0.12.5 out already? | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | .. 12? | 17:31 |
| Trizt | <Gordon`> I’m downloading the 1.0.12.5, I will thange my settings after | 17:32 |
| Trizt | don't ask me | 17:33 |
| locusf | prolly a typo | 17:33 |
| Trizt | maybe he ment 1.0.2.5 then | 17:34 |
| locusf | yeah | 17:34 |
| Trizt | just been hoping to see something new | 17:34 |
| * ggabriel waiting for sailfish 3.1.4.5 | 17:35 | |
| Stskeeps | wild predictions on sailfish 2.0 welcome | 17:37 |
| Trizt | Whats todays marketshare for sailfishos compared to the other mobile phone operating systems? | 17:38 |
| ggabriel | 100% | 17:38 |
| ggabriel | coz the others can hardly be called operating systems ;-) | 17:38 |
| ggabriel | well, maybe the bb one | 17:39 |
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| Trizt | you mean the unix one? | 17:40 |
| ggabriel | qnx | 17:40 |
| ggabriel | Stskeeps: depends how much jolla grows and/or how much jolla can offload to the community/other companies :) | 17:42 |
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| Stskeeps | ggabriel: hehe | 17:43 |
| Stskeeps | -i'm- not even sure how sailfish 2.0 would look | 17:43 |
| ggabriel | i'm only thinking that most folks will want more features | 17:43 |
| ggabriel | but granted that the UX side of sailfish has a lot to offer and there is a lot more room | 17:43 |
| ggabriel | i'd expect at least that sailfish 2.0 would provide a seamless experience for phones and tablets | 17:44 |
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| Stskeeps | i don't have any say in this, but i wouldn't be totally against making 2.0 == put dynamite under the native app story and look at it afresh again | 17:44 |
| ggabriel | well, depends on the timeline IMO | 17:45 |
| ggabriel | i've put dyanmite under the native apps a long time ago already | 17:45 |
| ggabriel | but there are some basic things that you need native still (browser, maps, sports tracker) but not most applications | 17:45 |
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| Stskeeps | well not saying not having a native story | 17:47 |
| ggabriel | ofc not | 17:47 |
| ggabriel | i know what you mean | 17:47 |
| ggabriel | after seeing some things in the store | 17:47 |
| ggabriel | like "birthday calculator" | 17:47 |
| ggabriel | lol | 17:47 |
| wickwire | Stskeeps: sorry, just landed - what's the native app story...? | 17:49 |
| M4rtinK | yeah, the current store client is not really good | 17:49 |
| M4rtinK | and the package management logic is IMHO rather horrendous (see all those false/broken app & system upgrades) | 17:50 |
| M4rtinK | so what about just forking the Warehouse code ? :) seems to be much more reliable & has really nice UI | 17:50 |
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| skvark | https://vimeo.com/88590219 | 20:04 |
| mornfall | so, the update. .. when? | 20:04 |
| tbr | during the next couple of days, presumably | 20:05 |
| mornfall | pretty annoyed to reboot 2 or 3 times a day | 20:05 |
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| * tbr wonders what he did differently as it's not happening on either of his devices | 20:06 | |
| mornfall | any confirmation which bugs are known to be fixed? | 20:07 |
| M4rtinK2 | well there is the mar14 tag on together | 20:07 |
| M4rtinK2 | so either March 14 | 20:07 |
| M4rtinK2 | OR, as hinted by pycage on TMO March(20)14 -> so sometime in March ? :) | 20:07 |
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| mornfall | hmm, here any movement is likd to provoke network instability and gestures will get stuck soon after | 20:08 |
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| mornfall | I suspect that it's networking that is pretty much fscked up since 1.0.3 ... walking away from wifi without turning it off first is especially disastrous | 20:15 |
| Eyea | jolla Hola joh | 20:15 |
| mornfall | (also, 3G happily connects in roaming now, even though forbidden... and delivery notices get disabled on every reboot, even though dunno if that's part of networking or something else) | 20:16 |
| flanag | I'm starting to think that the tohd service is causing some of the sudden shutdowns/reboots because before the 1.0.3.8 update I had never seen one. After the update I unmasked the service (because the nfc bug was fixed) and now I'm getting these shutdowns/reboots. And the fact that lifting a corner of the other half can end the reboot loop would also suggest that this is somehow connected to the nfc/tohd service. | 20:17 |
| mornfall | so yeah, if it's going to be more than couple days, it's reflashing time | 20:17 |
| clau | mornfall, I don't really have the problem with the wifi | 20:17 |
| clau | it tries to reconnect, and the phone becomes laggy for a short while | 20:18 |
| flanag | mornfall: what do you think of my view on the problem? have you masked the service? | 20:18 |
| clau | but it recovers eventually | 20:18 |
| mornfall | flanag: I have unmasked tohd | 20:18 |
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| clau | only once did it go crazy, when 3G was available but blocked by provider | 20:18 |
| mornfall | flanag: but I don't get a sudden reboot most of the time | 20:18 |
| clau | took me a while to disable the damn thing | 20:18 |
| mornfall | just gestures stop working so I have to reboot manually | 20:19 |
| clau | TOHD should be optional IMO | 20:19 |
| flanag | ok | 20:19 |
| mornfall | well, green flashing is fairly common, "all apps crash" isn't all that rare either | 20:19 |
| clau | some people will simply (almost) never need it | 20:19 |
| clau | and no matter how optimized it is, it will still suck battery | 20:19 |
| flanag | yeah, I masked the service again so I can see if it has any effect on the reboots | 20:20 |
| M4rtinK2 | well, if it works as it should, it power consumption should not be an issue at all | 20:21 |
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| M4rtinK2 | there is a mechanical switch | 20:21 |
| flanag | mechanical? | 20:21 |
| clau | I had no idea | 20:21 |
| M4rtinK2 | which is pressed once you mount a new TOH | 20:21 |
| M4rtinK2 | yep | 20:21 |
| clau | will it also unmount the sd card? | 20:21 |
| clau | when you take the toh off | 20:21 |
| flanag | I thought it was only an NFC tag | 20:21 |
| M4rtinK2 | so it should start scanning only once the switch is pressed, for a short time | 20:21 |
| clau | flanag, me too | 20:21 |
| M4rtinK2 | clau: nope, it won't | 20:22 |
| clau | would be a nice feature, though | 20:22 |
| mornfall | clau: or a horrible feature :) | 20:22 |
| M4rtinK2 | clau: yeah, could be a nice option for some | 20:22 |
| M4rtinK2 | or an app idea - might not do it outright but show a dialog | 20:23 |
| mornfall | especially if it means killing apps and/or losing data :-) | 20:23 |
| flanag | the connectivity is a large problem atm I think, the phone also switches to 2G too easily | 20:23 |
| clau | mornfall, definitely. | 20:23 |
| clau | on the other hand, if you play with the sd card often, this might avoid corrupting it. | 20:23 |
| M4rtinK2 | yeah, also have those connectivity issues | 20:23 |
| M4rtinK2 | damn annoying :) | 20:23 |
| clau | so, let it be optional :) | 20:23 |
| M4rtinK2 | there are times when you just want to swap the TOH, not change the SD :) | 20:24 |
| clau | flanag, I have the 2g issue too, but I live in an area with low signal, so I had it with n9 too :\ | 20:24 |
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| clau | hey, M4rtinK, there are two of you here. :) | 20:25 |
| flanag | clau: the solution (for me at least) would be a switch to force 3G (like in many other phones), the only option now is 2G or _prefer_ 3G | 20:25 |
| mornfall | well, connectivity... the fact that connectivity problems first cause me to click on random stuff for a while instead of minimising apps (unintentionally calling people FTW) and then reboot the phone is a much bigger problem | 20:25 |
| mornfall | this also happens intermittently when changing networks, eg., which makes it really hard to predict whether a swipe is going to work or do a tap in the middle of the screen instead | 20:26 |
| flanag | I have never seen that problem before | 20:27 |
| mornfall | I am almost convinced this is related to some focus-stealing issue with the notification popups... | 20:27 |
| mornfall | "network problem" is a good predictor of gestures failing | 20:28 |
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| mornfall | restarting network sometimes fixes the gestures, but not always | 20:28 |
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| teve | do you have enough free space (>1.5GB) ? https://together.jolla.com/question/30822/root-and-home-disks-full-and-causing-various-problems/ | 20:31 |
| mornfall | <6G used | 20:32 |
| clau | flanag, I would like to have that option too | 20:32 |
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| clau | if you have a link to a TJC post about it, I will vote on it (unless I already did :\ ) | 20:32 |
| flanag | I haven't posted anything on it but I think I saw a post about it at some point | 20:32 |
| flanag | I'll have a look and post a link if I find it | 20:33 |
| mornfall | ha, gesture worked... once | 20:33 |
| mornfall | using the power button to switch apps kinda sucks :P | 20:33 |
| flanag | clau: here you go https://together.jolla.com/question/5894/control-2g3g-individually/ | 20:34 |
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| mornfall | rootfs 14G 4.7G 8.7G 36% / | 20:34 |
| mornfall | mem 10M free, 150M buffers&cache | 20:35 |
| mornfall | swap 340M free | 20:35 |
| clau | flanag, yep, I've already voted on it | 20:36 |
| flanag | at least stskeeps has updated something on the post (a tag maybe) so at least they are aware of it | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | o | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | i've done what.. | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:37 |
| clau | there's a way to see the history | 20:37 |
| flanag | I guessed you would come here :p | 20:37 |
| clau | too lazy to check, though D: | 20:37 |
| mornfall | is a bugtracker planned? together is less than useful, and there's basically no feedback | 20:38 |
| flanag | Stskeeps, promise me that you'll include that *only* 3G option | 20:38 |
| flanag | :D | 20:38 |
| clau | Stskeeps, was wondering, would it be possible to make a new btrfs snapshot, and use it later for recovery? | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | clau: there's a shell prompt at your disposal in recovery mode | 20:38 |
| clau | luckily I never had to check that so far :) | 20:39 |
| mornfall | clau: booting from a btrfs snapshot may be somewhere between hard and impossible | 20:40 |
| clau | but I'm considering doing a reset before next update, and after I have the latest (without installing any other app), just make a new snapshot. | 20:40 |
| clau | I have absolutely no experience with btrfs, that's why I'm asking | 20:40 |
| mornfall | well, it may not be *that* hard, but it's something that may fail in new and interesting ways | 20:41 |
| mornfall | another consideration to make is that since / and /home are the same fs, after you make a snapshot, deleting files no longer frees up space | 20:43 |
| Eyea | how do you get a sd card to show up in sailfish on Jolla | 20:44 |
| Eyea | ? | 20:44 |
| Eyea | any one | 20:44 |
| Eyea | ? | 20:44 |
| Yaniel | devel-su mount .... | 20:45 |
| mornfall | Yaniel: seriously? (I didn't get an sd card yet :-P) | 20:45 |
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| Yaniel | unless it is formatted as fat in which case it should show up automatically | 20:47 |
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| clau | mornfall, deleting files that were caught in the snapshot, yes. deleting files that were created after the snapshot, no. | 20:49 |
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| clau | I would do it strictly to have a newer recovery point. | 20:50 |
| mornfall | clau: well, yes, but that can be even more frustrating, as users won't necessarily know which files are stuck in snapshots | 20:50 |
| clau | to avoid going through so many updates if I need to clean the system | 20:50 |
| clau | I only care about one user in this problem: me :) | 20:51 |
| clau | I'm not asking for a new feature, was just wondering if it's doable right now | 20:51 |
| M4rtinK_ | oh so that mount.sh script has not yet been fixed ? | 20:51 |
| Eyea | it there an easy way to install google play store? | 20:52 |
| chem|st | Eyea: mount it? | 20:52 |
| Eyea | link just run the apk | 20:52 |
| Eyea | like as in just run an apk | 20:52 |
| chem|st | Eyea: you need to copy some stuff and run an apk... | 20:53 |
| chem|st | afaik | 20:53 |
| Eyea | i had a look online there is some info | 20:53 |
| chem|st | it is the internet, there is always some info | 20:53 |
| clau | freetype2 security issue --> https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?41697 | 20:54 |
| mornfall | clau: reverting a snapshot using the new system should work, as long as you can sort out the kernels... it won't help if an update screws up booting | 20:54 |
| clau | makes sense | 20:54 |
| Eyea | where do you copy thoses files to | 20:54 |
| Eyea | it say to jolla | 20:54 |
| Eyea | does that mean root | 20:54 |
| Eyea | or somewhere els | 20:55 |
| clau | Eyea, I think there's a "howto" post on together.jolla.com about it | 20:55 |
| clau | do a search there | 20:55 |
| chem|st | to jolla means user space jolla | 20:55 |
| chem|st | https://together.jolla.com/question/30926/howto-install-google-play/ | 20:55 |
| chem|st | man people cannot even type google into a search box... first hit on tjc when you enter google :D | 20:55 |
| M4rtinK_ | clau: ouch | 20:56 |
| M4rtinK_ | better than libpng, but still nasty :) | 20:56 |
| chem|st | Eyea: copy the three files needed to jolla via any way you like, just make sure they end up in /opt/alien/system/app in the end | 20:57 |
| clau | currently we have 2.4.9 on jolla, I think | 20:57 |
| clau | there was another security issue not long ago, so there are probably at least two by now that affect jolla | 20:58 |
| Eyea | thanks | 20:58 |
| chem|st | yw | 20:58 |
| clau | M4rtinK_, CVE-2012-5668, CVE-2012-5669, CVE-2012-5670 | 20:59 |
| M4rtinK_ | +gnutls | 20:59 |
| clau | these were fixed in 2.4.11, if I understand correctly | 20:59 |
| clau | there was at least one in openssl | 21:00 |
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| clau | haven't checked after the latest update though | 21:00 |
| clau | I hope we will see soon security hotfixes. | 21:01 |
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| flanag | well, they said that the fixes would come as soon as possible | 21:02 |
| clau | yeah, a very helpful statement :) | 21:03 |
| mornfall | flanag: there doesn't seem to be any other update channel other than a system upgrade yet | 21:03 |
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| flanag | that's true | 21:03 |
| mornfall | so hotfixes are a pipe dream | 21:04 |
| clau | hopefully things will settle and jolla will do it | 21:04 |
| mornfall | but that's the case with security in general :) | 21:04 |
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| clau | well, on freebsd I have two nice tools, one dealing with the OS, one with the installed packages | 21:04 |
| clau | and they are keeping a nice db with all vulnerabilities | 21:05 |
| mornfall | clau: many distros have tools like that | 21:05 |
| clau | and I can check at any point if there's one vulnerable package installed | 21:05 |
| clau | plus, update, of course | 21:05 |
| mornfall | I don't think mer has one though. | 21:06 |
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| teve | zypper has support for patch and update | 21:06 |
| Aard | mornfall: if you do ssu lr on the device you should see an enabled 'hotfixes' repo | 21:06 |
| mornfall | teve: I mean a database of security vulnerabilities in particular package (versions) | 21:07 |
| clau | well, small system udpated could be provided as hotfixes | 21:07 |
| clau | there's no need for extra software to make it work | 21:07 |
| mornfall | clau: how would it work? something needs to install the packages | 21:07 |
| clau | and while I would appreciate a db and a tool to query it, I don't find it really necessary, as long as updates are pushed | 21:07 |
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| Turski | clau: trough system upgrade? | 21:08 |
| Turski | mornfall^ | 21:08 |
| clau | yes | 21:08 |
| clau | why not? | 21:08 |
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| clau | the user can see it, accept, do it or not. | 21:08 |
| Turski | mornfall: you know, sailfish already has a system upgrade tool ;) | 21:08 |
| clau | :D | 21:08 |
| mornfall | Turski: but it doesn't do that | 21:09 |
| clau | hmm, I guess the freebsd db could be used, since most packages from sailfish are likely present on fbsd too | 21:09 |
| Turski | mornfall: that's exactly what it does | 21:09 |
| clau | mornfall, think about how you got the last update | 21:09 |
| mornfall | Turski: no, the upgrade tool uses out-of-band metadata to change the repo URLs and then runs a one-off update | 21:10 |
| clau | you were notified | 21:10 |
| clau | you could a message | 21:10 |
| clau | and you had a choice to go on, or postpone | 21:10 |
| clau | 1.0.3.8 | 21:10 |
| mornfall | you need a different mechanism to use the hotfixes | 21:10 |
| Turski | mornfall: ? | 21:10 |
| Aard | mornfall: no | 21:10 |
| clau | now, a 1.0.3.9 could be release as a hotfix | 21:10 |
| Turski | mornfall: just bump the version | 21:10 |
| clau | released* | 21:10 |
| mornfall | Aard: hmm? | 21:10 |
| clau | there's absolutely nothing special about security fixes | 21:10 |
| clau | it's just an update | 21:10 |
| mornfall | - hotfixes ... https://releases.jolla.com/releases/1.0.3.8/hotfixes/armv7hl/ | 21:10 |
| mornfall | it says 1.0.3.8 in the URL | 21:11 |
| Aard | yes. hotfixes are release-specific | 21:11 |
| mornfall | so it needs a different way to upgrade other than bumping the release number | 21:11 |
| clau | so, no need to increase version number then? | 21:11 |
| Aard | no. :) | 21:11 |
| Turski | mornfall: but the mechanism is just the same, it downloads packages with higher version number than installed ones and installs them | 21:11 |
| mornfall | Aard: but how does the actual upgrade work? a cronjob? | 21:11 |
| Turski | mornfall: os upgrade doesn't need to touch every single package | 21:12 |
| mornfall | I haven't seen a single notification, so either there are no hotfixes ever, or it updates silently... | 21:12 |
| Aard | on backend side, a hotfix is a filled hotfixes-repository, which contains a version package (and therefore upgrades version), with the rest of the base-version linked to the hotfix-release as well | 21:12 |
| clau | there was one in december, right? | 21:12 |
| Aard | that way we can easily track hotfix installation status | 21:12 |
| Sail0r | until now there are no upgrades which are not releases ? | 21:13 |
| Sail0r | because i have never noticed that a single packet was upgraded in background | 21:13 |
| Aard | Sail0r: we had iirc 2 hotfixes. to you as user there's no difference (apart from "a lot less packages downloaded") | 21:14 |
| mornfall | Sail0r: apparently, there was one in december (I didn't get a device until after the hotfix I presume) | 21:14 |
| mornfall | I get bogus upgrade notifications though. | 21:14 |
| Aard | we can't just silently install packages -> we always need to go through the 'there's an update, do you want to install it' | 21:14 |
| Sail0r | Aard: do these hotfixes also force a reboot? | 21:14 |
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| Aard | yes | 21:15 |
| Aard | it's exactly the same ui, you'll just notice that the banner graphics remains same, and only the last digit of the version number will increment | 21:15 |
| FireFly | To clarify, it's just like a regular update from the user-side, except smaller? | 21:15 |
| Sail0r | ok | 21:15 |
| FireFly | Right | 21:15 |
| Aard | FireFly: yes, all the magic happens in the backend | 21:16 |
| FireFly | Neat | 21:16 |
| Sail0r | It's like Fedora20 ^^ I do not understand why it always wants to reboot for minor updates *g* | 21:16 |
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| clau | so, we're looking forward for the next hotfix then :D | 21:16 |
| Sail0r | ok, reboot because it is the safest way. | 21:17 |
| mornfall | Sail0r: I already reboot more often than daily, what's another reboot every few months for a hotfix :P | 21:17 |
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| Sail0r | I rebooted three times since I have a Jolla | 21:17 |
| Sail0r | 2 times where a crash | 21:17 |
| Sail0r | ^^ | 21:17 |
| mornfall | I only reboot when I can't recover the system in any other way. :P | 21:17 |
| Aard | Sail0r: because some packages will not work easily without restart (for example, updating the compositor -> if we restart that we'll kill everything). right now we don't have packages marked as 'safe' or 'unsafe' for install without reboot -> until we have that offline install with reboot is safest | 21:17 |
| Sail0r | Aard: thx :) | 21:18 |
| Sail0r | Aard: but you work on updates without reboot? | 21:19 |
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| bjorn | With with safe/unsafe flag, you'd still need a mechanism to restart already running stuff in case of security updates. Not exactly trivial I think. | 21:19 |
| clau | it's definitely simpler to just reboot | 21:19 |
| bjorn | Even with* | 21:19 |
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| Sail0r | yep reboot is simpler | 21:19 |
| Aard | as for the gnutls/openssl issues: updated gnutls is part of the upcoming update, and we're currently checking if we can/should push it as hotfix before publishing the update. for openssl we have the fix, and are currently testing. we won't delay release of the next update because of that, so if all goes well it might be integrated, if not I'd expect that we'll push a hotfix shortly afterwards | 21:20 |
| mornfall | Aard: I still don't quite understand what the hotfixes repo does, btw. If the patchlevel of the OS version is bumped on a hotfix, doesn't it change all the URLs anyway? | 21:20 |
| clau | and I don't really see it as a problem, as long as I am not forced to do it when the phone wants it. | 21:20 |
| Aard | mornfall: it does change the urls, it's mostly to make things on the backend easier | 21:20 |
| clau | Aard, good to know, thanks for the information. | 21:20 |
| Aard | bjorn: not trivial, but doable | 21:21 |
| mornfall | Aard: I see... and about that release, is there a tentative schedule? (if you already know it's not going to happen for say 10 days, it might be a good idea to reflash) | 21:21 |
| Sail0r | next week all news say | 21:21 |
| flanag | yep | 21:21 |
| Aard | Sail0r: yes, it's being worked on, but very early in concepting phase, so will take quite some time to arrive | 21:21 |
| Sail0r | Aard: cool :) | 21:22 |
| Aard | mornfall: can't give a schedule yet, but I sure hope it won't take 10 more days ;) we're currently taking care of the last handful of issues | 21:22 |
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| mornfall | Aard: so with the beta label gone, is the fixed vs. created bugs going to be better than the last time? ;P | 21:23 |
| mornfall | +ratio | 21:24 |
| Sail0r | I say it's friday ^^ | 21:24 |
| Aard | mornfall: it was not that bad last time :p | 21:24 |
| mornfall | Sail0r: afternoon :-P | 21:24 |
| Sail0r | because march 14 can mean march the 14th or march 2014 maybe it's a double meaning march 14 2014 | 21:24 |
| Sail0r | xD | 21:24 |
| bjorn | Pi day! | 21:27 |
| bencoh | :] | 21:27 |
| Sail0r | and friday is always a good day to push changes into the wild *g* | 21:28 |
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| pp_ | start the weekend with a brick, then quickly drown your sorrows :-) | 22:07 |
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| AL13N | https://together.jolla.com/question/32050/have-gdisk-available-in-mer-tools-repository/ | 22:26 |
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| AL13N | (also some progress on https://together.jolla.com/question/26605/howto-install-a-chroot-for-building-apps/ ) | 22:26 |
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