#jollamobile log for Monday, 2014-02-10

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madkHey guys. Anyone here use Hackernews? I'm considering porting my hackernews app to sailfish01:00
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starkerswhy not just aim for html5 then its easy to port :)01:00
madkIt's already qt/python01:00
starkerswoot :)01:01
madkIt's for BB10. I'd only need to change the UI.01:01
madkI just want to know if anyone here uses it. And also how many people here actually have a device?01:02
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* pahartik does not know what "Hackernews" is01:35
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madkpahartik: news.ycombinator.com03:49
pahartikmadk: DNS entry without AAAA acknowledged03:53
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madkhttps://news.ycombinator.com/04:00
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pahartikmadk: That application would provide easy interface for commenting and things?04:21
madkYes04:23
bef0rdhi madk04:24
madkOh hi bef0rd04:25
madkWhat's up?04:25
madkI decided to hang out here because I thought it would be more happening. I was wrong :P04:26
specialweekend :p04:26
specialalso very early morning european time04:26
madkTrue.04:26
pahartikmadk: Is it your code for "BB10"?04:37
madk?04:37
madkWhat do you mean? Did I make the BlackBerry 10 app? Yeah I did.04:37
pahartikmadk: Yes, that was my question, but then I looked backwards again and found it already answered04:38
madkAlright!04:40
madkDo you have a Jolla by the way?04:40
pahartikmadk: I got "Jolla Mobile" device on 2013-12-27 from local store04:42
madkNeat! I wish I had one.04:43
pahartikmadk: First native IRC client was released just two days ago04:44
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madkOh yeah I saw a tweet regarding it. How does it run? What does it look like?04:46
madkScreenshot please!04:46
pahartikmadk: Do you have IPv6?04:54
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madkDon't think so.05:08
pahartikmadk: Bitmap image at "http://vulpine.pahartik.iki.fi:8000/20140210065233.jpg", but it only has IPv605:12
pahartikmadk: If you tell address and port, I can send it directly to you with "nc"05:14
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madkNo idea what you're talking about...05:16
madkWhy not just put it on imgur or something05:16
Bryalimgur screenshot of jolla irc clienthttp://m.imgur.com/PVhOVgd05:16
chriadamcheetah's _are_ pretty quick ;-)05:17
madkNice! How does navigation work?05:17
chriadamminus the apostrophe05:17
pahartikmadk: "netcat" AKA "nc" is very simple and useful networking tool05:18
BryalAll geastures and pulley menues05:19
madkCool stuff. I really want a device!05:19
Bryalpull up to join channels, left to jump between saved ones and right to list users05:20
BryalQuite nice really05:20
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pahartikmadk: Network/Channel/Queue tree on left side, nickname list on right side05:21
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slateah, proxy works perfectly.05:26
pahartikslate: So far I have not found image storage service that I like05:28
madkMake your own!05:29
pahartikslate: And that was not message intended for you05:29
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slateheh, no worries05:30
pahartikslate: But, IRC proxy is very good05:30
pahartikmadk: Knowing myself, it would probably be IPv6 only as well05:32
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pahartikmadk: Also, since you asked for screenshot, I had reason to choose and install application to get it05:41
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madkHaha, well thanks for trying.05:44
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pahartikmadk: Bitmap image at "http://5w.fi/~pahartik/20140210065233.jpg"05:49
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madkI can see that one!05:50
madkLooks good, the wallpaper shinethrough feature on sailfish is so awesome05:50
fravaccaroI everyone!05:50
fravaccaro*hi05:51
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pahartikmadk: Server of local hackerspace helped05:51
fravaccaroirc on Jolla is gorgeous05:51
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pahartikmadk: Damn, I do not like that "screenshot" application, defaults to "image/jpeg" and does not even offer "image/png"...05:56
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* pahartik thinks screenshots should be pixel perfect by default, with optional lossy compression05:59
tango_what does the wlan symbol with exclamation mark mean? it's not in the guide tha I can see06:01
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pahartiktango_: I think I have had exclamation mark on mobile network symbol when I initiated connection outside GUI (from shell)06:04
PeperJohnnytango_: Problem with connection most of the times iirc06:06
tango_well I'm connected fine06:06
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pahartiktango_: I have simple script to reconnect whenever mobile network appears to have disconnected06:06
PeperJohnnySometimes it feels like it is not updating properly :/06:07
tango_oh I think it forgot to update since tonight when the DSL went down06:07
pahartiktango_: In my case it probably was sign of GUI not being in control or not being sure about state06:08
tango_(irc client)06:08
tango_wow just sent message to wrong window with irsi0si in tmux via ssh from jolla terminal06:09
pahartiktango_: I was afraid of such, and never tried IRC from "fingerterm"06:12
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tango_but I like my setup :(06:14
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pahartiktango_: Even on "Nokia N900" with that tiny keyboard, creating single character alphanumeric aliases for often used shell command combinations was essential06:17
Pnuumessages to wrong channels happen anyway, no matter what one's using :-P06:17
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tango_Pnuu: true, but fingerterm left/right swipes shouldn't be so easy to trigger while typing06:19
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pahartikPnuu: Character terminal with full keyboard can be comfortable, but when input device shrinks... It quickly turns opposite06:21
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Pnuuthat hasn't happened to me, but after esc+number, when trying to get the vkb away, it almost always (95 % of the time) interprets the touch as left-swipe :-P06:21
Pnuupahartik: well, yeah, I prefer to use a full sized keyboard, too, but not really feasible with a phone :-P06:22
tango_let's hope the qwerty toh delivers06:22
pahartikPnuu: Disappointment with "Nokia N900" for me was that it never got good IRC client... "Jolla Mobile" has one already06:24
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Pnuuyeah, ssh 8-)06:24
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fravaccarohave you looked into toh on tmo? tango_06:28
pahartikPnuu: If I need to respond with more than two words while on move, I probably put "Jolla Mobile" back to pocket and flip out laptop workstation06:30
slatevgrade: proxy works well when /ircnet and /server are set correctly, so the proxy can map the settings right.06:33
tango_fravaccaro: I'm not following the tmo discussion but I saw the latest vimeo video06:34
fravaccaroare you considering buying it or are you waiting for an official one?06:41
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opukanyone else had issues with gps and androidapps?07:16
opukspecifically when in a car07:16
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madktango_: Is qwerty toh actually happening?07:40
stephgquick question: the media app supports ogg right?07:40
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* stephg collating radio to take to work this week07:40
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Stskeepsstephg: afaik07:41
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tbrstephg: ogg is an container, yes it supports that.07:41
stephgit's what I thought but just wanted to check07:41
stephgthx guys07:41
* tbr said nothing about the codecs inside the container07:44
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stephgs/ogg/vorbis/ then ;)07:44
vesurivsno support for vorbis on a mobile music player would be bad07:46
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tbrvesurivs: gst-inspect-0.10 on the device tells me it supports ogg encapsulated Vorbis but NOT Opus07:51
* tbr considers that a bug07:51
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tango_madk: seems to07:52
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tango_vesurivs: why would vorbis on a mobile music player be bad?07:53
Yaniel*no vorbis07:54
vesurivsyeah, no vorbis would be bad07:55
Yanielno Opus is atm not that bad07:56
Yanielbut still a bit sad07:56
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vesurivsfingers crossed for opus support in the near future07:59
tango_oh NO vorbis07:59
tango_don't know why I misread that thing07:59
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vesurivsthe guys at xiph know what theyre doing with them codecs08:01
tbrindeed08:02
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Yanielbtw why gstreamer-0.1008:03
Yanieland not the current one08:03
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vesurivshttps://together.jolla.com/question/5556/upgrade-gstreamer-to-support-opus-codec/08:10
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vesurivsYaniel: "upgrading to Gstreamer 1.x has been in our plans, however is not a trivial nor short task to do and, while in our roadmap, it might take up to 6 months to make it functional and stable."08:11
vesurivslets see ;)08:11
Yanielnice08:12
Yanielwait "port xulrunner (open)"08:12
Yanielhow is that related to gst08:12
YanielI thought XUL was only a curse of firefox08:12
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* tbr might still take a stab at getting an gst 0.10 opus plugin to work08:13
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P_irtunew irc client seems to work nicely08:14
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nxthrxkhyes, just connected from it!08:14
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stephghttp://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/neither-microsoft-nokia-nor-anyone-else-should-fork-android-its-unforkable/?comments=1&post=2619942308:28
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Acceanyone here tried this https://projects.kde.org/projects/playground/www/qmlweb/repository ? looks interesting :o08:41
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Accebut demos felt quite slow, and not a surprise since the mechanism is to create js object model and render it on a html5 canvas..08:42
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Accewell this doesn't feel so slow http://www.kdab.com/~thomas/devdays2013/MineHunter.html08:46
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jmlichHi, I have a trouble with notifications screen. After selecting the twitter and clicking anywhere, the screen gets darker and the gestures are not working anymore..09:19
jmlichThe problem came with last update.09:20
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jmlichsometimes the dark area is not covering whole screen.09:22
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joonahoijmlich: i noticed the same, but it seems like it's related to showing some linked images in the feed09:23
joonahoididn't find a reliable way to reproduce the problem though09:24
jmlichsee screenshot http://pcmlich.fit.vutbr.cz/tmp/20140210101902.jpg09:24
joonahoiyeah, you can "reset" it by opening the pulley menu09:25
joonahoiafter you get out from the twitter notifications app09:25
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joonahoibecause as you noted, while in the twitter notifications it doesn't respond to other gestures than swipe from top (close)09:25
jmlichyes, but, in the twitter screen, there is not pulley menu. I have to lock and unlock phone using hardware button09:25
joonahoiand even that after a while09:26
jmlichStskeeps, ^ any idea with that?09:26
specialjmlich: joonahoi: there is an internal bug about this09:26
joonahoiok, great09:26
specialit can happen in a few places with those dimmers (pulley menus, context menus, etc). hard to reproduce.09:26
jmlichI am facing this problem at least one per day )-;09:27
joonahoithe twitter events feed is the only place where i have seen it, and it only happens when there's linked images in the tweets09:28
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specialadded those comments09:29
joonahoicool09:29
Sail0rmy icons in store got messed up under "my apps"09:30
Sail0rsome of them have the icon of saildoku09:30
Sail0rbut i don't have it installed09:30
Sail0rand in the normal launcher the icons are ok09:30
Sail0ronly in "my apps" they are replaced09:30
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vatte_sailingirc looks nice :)09:48
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vatte_sailingif only it could run in my screen09:49
Yanielbouncers were invented for a reason09:50
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vatte_sailingYaniel: ?09:51
Yanielan irc bouncer (relay, proxy) is basically an irc client intended to be run on a remote host so that other irc clients can connect to it09:52
Yanieland disconnect09:52
Yanielbut the connection from the bouncer to the irc network stays up (keeping your nick and backlogs)09:52
Yanielirssi and weechat have this sort of functionality builtin09:53
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Acceirc on sailfish; increasing peoples knowledge about bouncers since 201409:54
Yaniel:D09:54
Sail0rlol09:55
Yanielmight be worth adding a note in the description?09:55
Accei heard of bouncers too when i started using this :P09:55
vatte_sailingYaniel: ok, I guess I have to setup a bouncer :)09:55
kehnooif you have irssi, just /load proxy09:56
vatte_sailingso to be sure I'll get my irssi backlog and nick to the app in the end09:56
vatte_sailing?09:56
Yanielyup09:57
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Yanielbacklog might be a bit flaky09:57
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Yanieland need some tweaking09:57
kehnooeh, I just check my backlog with terminal09:57
vatte_sailingkehnoo: kehno solution :P09:57
Yanielbut when you really need it you can just go the traditional way of ssh:ing in and attaching your screen09:58
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SailEvilVenemo_j: yay10:02
stephgwhat does the triple flash of a green LED mean? think it was introduced in 103810:03
SpeedEvilI think that means 'near the ocean at sunset with clear weather, facing west'10:04
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spiiroinstephg: ui has trouble acknowledging ui start ipc associated with display unblanking10:04
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stephgyeah that'd figure10:04
stephgI'm in the connection loop so everything is sluggish10:05
stephgat least I have developer mode so I can watch the look on journalctl10:05
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* stephg and around and around we go...10:05
stephgs/look/loop/10:05
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korhow do you watch that?10:08
korand connection loop? like, disconnecting and reconnecting all the time?10:08
mikmayeah10:08
stephgjournalctl -f --no-pager -o cat > /run/user/100000/media/sdcard/journal.log10:09
mikmaand blinking "connection problem" status ontop of screen over and over again, never stopping10:09
koryeah, that keeps happening10:09
stephgactually, was meaning to ask, power consumption wouldn't be too bad to be running that all the time would it10:09
tachikomai know that as well :)10:09
korstephg: wouldn't that require a sd card10:11
stephgwell yeah10:11
mikmakinda ;)10:14
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camerisdoes someone know where i can find documentation on the nemo middleware? cant seem to find anything on the mer wiki.10:30
sledgescameris: http://xavinux.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/nemo-os-components-functions.html10:32
camerissledges: awesome, thank you.10:33
sledgesthings changed over time, but it's simply a collection of opensource projects, which you can then examine individually10:34
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camerisi dont see anything that manages rtc wakeup for the opportunistic suspend.10:40
sledgeskernel, mce, dsme ?10:41
Stskeepsmce i think10:41
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cameriswill check that out. thx.10:44
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spiiroinStskeeps: cameris: rtc stuff is in dsme11:11
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Guest2439ping12:13
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Sail0rStskeeps: cool talk :)12:22
Sail0rjust watched it on youtube12:23
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clauSail0r: link please12:37
Sail0rhttp://youtu.be/Ed8duAnlwHc12:38
clauthanks12:39
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* starkers yawns12:39
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ballockI need a classical ethernet on my device, but I guess there's no way?12:52
Yanielover usb?12:53
ballockthe USB port will not handle USB->eth adapters?12:53
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Yanielinteresting question12:53
tbrcan the usb port even switch personality?12:53
tbrif yes, then that's an option12:53
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Yanielnot that I'm aware of it12:53
ballockI read on tjc that it's supposedly possible to connect a HDD if you supply power to its pins12:54
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tbrok, so it doesn't supply Vusb, which isn't a problem12:54
tbryou just take a powered switch12:54
tbrshould try that when I get home12:55
ballocklike how? even if I connect an USB->NIC adapter to a powered ethernet switch, it will not power the NIC adapter12:56
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ballockoh, but you meant a powered USB siwthc?12:56
tbryes12:56
tbrsorry12:56
ballocklet me know the outcome then, I'm eager to hear12:56
tbrpoke me in 3-4h :)12:57
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ppraspberry pi bridging rndis0 to eth0? :-912:57
ballockwell, the powered USB switch is already a problem, an external Pie might be an abuse of too much kind'12:58
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ballocktbr: https://together.jolla.com/question/50/why-its-not-possible-to-use-usb-otg/#post-id-25713:00
cffCan Sailfish OS run on Samsung S5230 Avila ?13:00
tbrcff: does that phone run cyanogenmod 10.1?13:01
cfftbr: no idea13:03
cfflet me check13:03
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ppLet the RPi power the jolla over usb?-) Probably could do PoE too13:07
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ballockI'll think about getting the power off TOH connectors13:13
ballockthere must be some way of providing power there13:13
tbryou can get 3.3V from the on-board rail13:14
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tbrnote that you should limit current though and will have to throw in a 5V step-up13:14
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ballocksounds like Ethernet Other Half ;)13:15
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Sail0r10G? ^^13:24
StskeepsSail0r: thanks13:24
Sail0r:)13:24
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ballockyeah, I'll connect a 10G USB->Ethernet adapter13:25
ballockmost probably just a 12,5Mbit, that's the most you can get with cheap chinise adapters13:26
Sail0rhehe13:28
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clauhas anyone tried Telegram on jolla? https://telegram.org13:47
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FettisAnyone know solution for "stuck" jolla messages app?14:17
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achipatbr: seems no hope for QtInfo on the harbour side, does too much black magic apparently :(14:38
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tbrachipa: is it open-source?14:43
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achipatbr: duh! https://github.com/achipa/qtinfo14:44
tbr:)14:45
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merlin1991achipa: maybe a thing for chum? https://build.merproject.org/project/show?project=sailfishos%3Achum%3A1.0.3.814:52
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louisdkDoes the Jolla phone have a serial number. I'm asking because I'm about to buy one used online and want to confirm that it's real.15:04
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ballocklouisdk: how much is it?15:05
dschoepelouisdk: There's a serial number on the invoice and under the battery cover, iirc15:06
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WntAt least each device has an unique IMEI number15:07
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fluxI probably wouldn't give my IMEI to some random internet guy wanting to buy something from me :)15:07
Siddesome android applications stops working correctly after a few days. Is there any cache or something that can be trashed?15:12
louisdkballock: Converted from danish kroners to € it's about 175€.15:12
louisdkdschoepe: Thanks15:12
ballockhalf the price then, might be real15:13
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ballock(still I'm wondering why anyone would sell one)15:14
slatelack of features etc.15:15
Yanielmore bugs than expected15:15
AL13N_workpeople forget that features will be added15:16
AL13N_workand don't want to wait15:16
AL13N_workpretty stupid if you ask me15:16
Sailor003no caldav, carddav, bt abap... so not usable, yet15:16
leinirnothing to do with forgetting - some people need a device which works now, not a device with potential15:16
ballockand that's the chance for louisdk15:16
AL13N_workleinir: still, isn't it better to work on another phone while you wait for it?15:16
ballockJolla got their 400, you'll get it for 175, sounds like a deal15:16
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Sailor003win.win :)15:17
AL13N_work:-)15:17
louisdkballock: He is selling on a local dealer site owned by ebay. I've this real name, phone number, adress, youtube and linkin profile. It seems like he is a man with money who just wwanted to try the newest mobile stuff and decided it was not for him.15:17
tachikomawhat is bt abap ?15:17
AL13N_workbluetooth profiles15:18
AL13N_workcar stuff15:18
Sailor003address book access protocol15:18
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Sailor003yes on car15:18
tachikomamh, ok - no idea about it, but my tomtom synced fine with it and was able to access the phonebook just fine ...15:18
tachikomaguess it uses some other profile then15:18
Sailor003but carddav is the deal breaker of those15:19
AL13N_worki'm betting the bt profiles will probably get in there next month, together with the 4G15:19
Sailor003no addressbook sync - so abap would not help ;)15:19
AL13N_workheh15:19
AL13N_worki'm pretty sure *dav will take some time15:20
AL13N_worki'm estimating 2 months for that15:20
tachikomaso, how does tomtom get the adresses ....15:20
tachikomajust wondering15:20
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Sailor003I soo want a slider keyboard...15:22
Sailor003an IR led also wouldnt have been a bad idea..15:23
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ballockcould someone please tell me what's the fuss with IR?15:24
ballockTV remote control?15:24
tachikomayeah, don;t get it either15:24
tachikomaas tv remote any ir that i had on a phone was too weak to be really usefull15:24
Sailor003yes . or dslr control. or home automatiob15:24
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tachikomaI don;t relly consider it a "remote" control when i have to get up and walk upto the tv in order to switch channels15:25
Sailor003n900 had a great dslr ctrl app15:25
tachikomabut - that sounds like a really simple toh project15:25
tachikomair led + i2c interface15:25
tachikomaand that one then can be powerful enough to also switch the tv of your neighnour :)15:26
Sailor003hopefully integrated into the slider keyboard toh :)15:26
krigI just had a brilliant idea I have to share here in the hope that someone will pick it up: A flappy bird-clone for Jolla called Flappy Boat, with a Jolla trying to avoid colliding with Ballmer/Elop/Gates15:26
slateSailor003: that app is the only reason i still use n90015:26
slateSailor003: timed shots15:27
Sailor003i also liked the radio transmitter15:27
slatekrig: wee, angry birds was first released for maemo?15:27
slatewell*15:28
Sailor003ios was first iirc15:28
krigslate: oh, was it first? I remember it came with the phone..15:28
krigor it was the first paid app15:28
* Yaniel wants a jolla-themed "angry seagulls"15:28
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leinirYaniel: Nah - needs to be much more joyful... Happy Seagulls! ;)15:29
Yanielor say, Angry Birds: Pirates15:29
Yaniel...of Scandinavia15:30
Yanielor Baltic Sea15:30
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Sailor003where you snap dailfishs that will stick in seagulls oO15:30
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Sailor003tachikoma: lol@mischat in #piratenpartei ;)15:36
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Milo-just received an email notification, but email client's cover still says the last sync time was 8 hours ago :)16:36
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slateI once got new mail notification while all dataconns off.16:41
Stskeepsslate: well, telepathy framework..16:41
slateNo idea how it causes that.16:42
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AL13N_jollaStskeeps: lol16:43
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HarhaanJohtajahttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25743074 or nsa was kind enough to pass the message to you16:43
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slateprolly some service was a bit stuck.16:45
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slateStskeeps: I'm a bit on a slow mode. Unable to interact with realtime humor.16:48
slate;)16:48
Stskeepsthis is asynchronous humor16:48
Stskeeps:P16:48
slatedepends on the client16:49
Acceif we setup a company selling asynchronous humor services, do you think people will get it16:50
slateor type of connection to client -> server16:50
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tbrAcce: I'd buy it, LOL16:51
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keelI've played around with the Sailfish SDK a few times, but I would like to play with the actual OS as it comes with the Jolla phone, is there any progress on that?17:10
tachikomaamazon ist faszinierend17:10
tachikomawenn ich einen posten bestelle - giobts 1 euro liefergebuehr17:11
tachikomabestelle ich 2 posten - 3,50 liefergebuehr17:11
tachikomaargl17:11
Pnuuenglish, please17:11
tachikoma*facepalm*17:11
tachikomaPnuu: sorry wrong window - i'll never get used to multiwindow setup in irssi ...17:11
tachikomaI was just wondering about amazon delivery costs, they don;t go up lienar with what i buy17:12
Accekeel: what do you mean, "as it comes"?17:12
Accethe emulator is pretty much it17:12
keelAcce: really? surely if I buy a Jolla phone, there's more to it than what's inside the Sailfish SDK image17:13
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Accedo you mean like, the browser and email stuff?17:15
Acceand android layer?17:15
keelAcce: yes, among others (I'm not familiar with the installed software that comes with the Jolla phone)17:16
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Accehmm, I see17:16
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AcceI kinda have feeling that stuff isn't coming to the emulator anytime soon, but who knows17:17
keelI see, thanks Acce17:17
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Accekeel: you can try posting to together.jolla.com or search if someone has already asked it17:20
Accethat is the channel which is read by Jolla team most often17:21
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keelthanks, I'll check it out17:23
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debexpertHi all, topics in italian on channel ##jollait with fravaccaro and debexpert21:12
Quuok21:13
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starkersrawr21:30
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clauwhat's the proper way of dealing with apk's outside of Store?21:49
clauis there some tool similar to pkcon or rpm to handle them?21:49
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ln-i just download them with the browser and install them.21:52
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Quuyeah, that works21:54
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FireFlyor use apkd-install21:55
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HtheBmeow22:06
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starkers:)22:07
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Nicd-no shutdown today! woooo22:08
Nekron_congrats :)22:08
starkersrandom shutdowns?22:08
Nicd-yep22:08
Nicd-uptime almost 23 hrs22:09
* starkers shudders as he recalls windows 9522:09
Nicd-I got 4 days once with win98se22:10
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MrCarlthat is old22:11
MrCarli did once have a system with 3.11 for workgroups22:12
MrCarlnow that is old lol22:12
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starkersI had to reboot a server under a year recently :(22:12
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HtheBnever had a crash with DOS!22:13
HtheBTrolololol22:13
MrCarli never did22:13
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starkersohh I have lol22:13
MrCarldos 6.2222:13
starkersugh modern22:13
starkerssucked too much ram22:14
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HtheBganes crashed, but that were game bugs22:14
Nicd-I just had a system with 3.11 for workgroups, it was linux though :p22:14
HtheBgames22:14
HtheBlol22:14
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starkersit is pretty cool that I can compile up over 2gb of source these days before my laptop's batteries die22:15
starkersthings are better I have to tell myself sometimes22:15
starkerswat least I can watch whatever I want on the internet now with xbmc and no ads haha22:16
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artemmais .yaml's/.spec's QMakeOptions directive working during compilation only?23:01
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artemmaI have to modify standard Qt modules to satisfy harbour (e.g. modify qmldir file) and I'd like to parametrize it, so I could release a reusable modified modules like this one - https://github.com/amarchen/nemo-qml-plugin-policy23:02
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Abby26 I give you some pictures. I hope you like! http://bit.do/my_videos6923:54
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