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| atlaz | What a little tease | 05:43 |
|---|---|---|
| atlaz | My phone said "System update available" this morning | 05:43 |
| atlaz | but now it says up to date | 05:44 |
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| Kharn | Mine did the same thing a few times. I didn't memorize the advertised version though, to check if its the same its running currently. | 05:46 |
| atlaz | Kharn: it sais 1.0.2.5 | 05:48 |
| atlaz | *said | 05:48 |
| atlaz | ie. the current | 05:48 |
| tbr | known bug, fix in next update | 05:50 |
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| AL13N_work | netsplit... | 09:06 |
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| pvanhoof | i have an update for my sailfishos, but when i tap it in the events screen .. nothing happens | 09:35 |
| Nicd- | OS update? | 09:36 |
| pvanhoof | ues | 09:36 |
| pvanhoof | yes | 09:36 |
| Stskeeps | pvanhoof: bug in the 1.0.2.5 store client | 09:36 |
| pvanhoof | rebooted, taken battery out, etc | 09:36 |
| pvanhoof | so, how to get the update ? :) | 09:36 |
| Nicd- | go to settings -> system settings -> about -> pull down | 09:37 |
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| pvanhoof | ok, update device menu item. selected it. (nothing happens) | 09:37 |
| Nicd- | what is your current version? | 09:38 |
| pvanhoof | 1.0.0.5 | 09:38 |
| Stskeeps | did you at any time touch 'developer updates' in developer mode? | 09:38 |
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| pvanhoof | i tried enabling developer mode, but that didn't succeed | 09:39 |
| pvanhoof | allow developer updates is turned off now | 09:39 |
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| Stskeeps | okay, if you touched that at any point on 1.0.0.5, you cannot do updates or install apps from store.. | 09:40 |
| pvanhoof | owk, so how can i get out of the situation? | 09:40 |
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| tbr | need to factory reset | 09:42 |
| pvanhoof | ok, trying reset device | 09:43 |
| pvanhoof | plz warn customers about this :) | 09:43 |
| * tbr has been warning people to never touch the 'developer updates' button | 09:43 | |
| pvanhoof | officially | 09:44 |
| tbr | new devices come with newer firmware out of factory AFAIU | 09:44 |
| AL13N_work | ic | 09:44 |
| pvanhoof | reconfiguring device minimally, hoping that now the update works.. | 09:45 |
| ggabriel | pvanhoof: the only thing i configured before upgrading to latest is the WLAN :) | 09:45 |
| sharpneli | tbr: You mean newer sailfish or new stuff for the HW? | 09:45 |
| AL13N_work | i just configured basic and wlan and registered for the store and then did update | 09:45 |
| ggabriel | it and was as smooth as butter in a not so cold weather | 09:45 |
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| AL13N_work | tbr: which batch is that? the 01-2014 or the 02-2014 ? | 09:46 |
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| tbr | AL13N_work: no clue, I think I've heard that from someone when they got theirs in january | 09:46 |
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| AL13N_work | tbr: i got mine in januari | 09:48 |
| AL13N_work | it was 1.0.0.5 | 09:48 |
| AL13N_work | i have batch 12-2013 | 09:48 |
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| AL13N_work | i would hope future devices got that SIM detection thing convered | 09:49 |
| tbr | k | 09:49 |
| Stskeeps | will be 01-2014 and beyond, or very last part of 12- | 09:49 |
| AL13N_work | nice | 09:49 |
| Nicd- | 11-2013 ftw | 09:49 |
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| AL13N_work | even though i had no trouble with that sim detection thing | 09:50 |
| ggabriel | Nicd-: you've just earned a badge "Early Adopter" | 09:50 |
| AL13N_work | perhaps because i cut my SIM | 09:50 |
| pvanhoof | ok so while it's doing system updating, it's not going to go into android wakelocks deep sleep, right? | 09:50 |
| AL13N_work | we'll have to see when i put in the new sim later | 09:50 |
| sharpneli | Nicd-: What was your number? It's comparison time! :D | 09:51 |
| AL13N_work | pvanhoof: i didn't have such issues | 09:51 |
| AL13N_work | oh gods... not again | 09:51 |
| * pvanhoof keeps it awake anyway | 09:51 | |
| AL13N_work | hahaha | 09:52 |
| Nicd- | sharpneli: the 450 event number? | 09:52 |
| AL13N_work | it should reboot, iirc | 09:52 |
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| pvanhoof | ok it's updating.. | 09:53 |
| pvanhoof | lost my data and didn't bring my n9 with me to resync, but i can do that this evening :) | 09:53 |
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| pvanhoof | download complete, installing | 09:54 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 09:54 |
| Frye | sharpneli, 235 here :-) | 09:54 |
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| pvanhoof | you sailfish guys are lucky that i didn't do much yet, goddamned having to reset my device to do a simple upgrade. grmbl. that bug better be fixed Stskeeps ! :) | 09:54 |
| Stskeeps | it is, but time travel is impossible | 09:55 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:55 |
| pvanhoof | :P | 09:55 |
| Nicd- | also people shouldn't touch developer mode and expect stuff not to break ;) | 09:55 |
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| pvanhoof | but im a developer! :) | 09:55 |
| Nicd- | so you should've expected that | 09:55 |
| ggabriel | pvanhoof: then surely you got 2 phones: a "serious" one and a "dev" one ;-) | 09:56 |
| pvanhoof | ggabriel, actually i do | 09:56 |
| ggabriel | ha! | 09:56 |
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| ggabriel | actually, installing sailfish on the n9 would make a good dev option | 09:56 |
| pvanhoof | but but but my street phone also needs dev stuff.. gah mmrlbl you're right i suppose | 09:56 |
| ggabriel | at no extra cost | 09:56 |
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| ggabriel | pvanhoof: i totally agree... i'm not developing but i do have dev mode | 09:56 |
| pvanhoof | nono i have two jolla's, i might need to send the first one back some day though | 09:57 |
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| pvanhoof | im working on tracker for aard, so i have a dev phone. bought this one for street use :) | 09:57 |
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| pvanhoof | and yeah i was planning to flash my n9 with sailfishos too, and give it to my gf (after this one works well enough for my daily use) | 09:58 |
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| ggabriel | the n9 still has some issues i think | 09:58 |
| pvanhoof | good idea to first put sailfishos on it ggabriel :) | 09:59 |
| ggabriel | to give it to a non tech gf, that is | 09:59 |
| ggabriel | unless you do multiboot and she uses harmattan | 09:59 |
| pvanhoof | guess i can look into the issues too | 09:59 |
| FIQ | isn't n9 dead? | 09:59 |
| FIQ | like, even worse off than N900 | 09:59 |
| ggabriel | FIQ: that's still my main phone | 09:59 |
| AL13N_work | btw: anyone have a vlc build? i didn't find one | 09:59 |
| ggabriel | well, define "worse off" | 09:59 |
| ggabriel | i don't have an n900 | 09:59 |
| ggabriel | so it can't be worse | 09:59 |
| FIQ | as nokia dropped support, but unlike N900, n9 lacks something like cssu :p | 10:00 |
| FIQ | to keep updating | 10:00 |
| ggabriel | there is openrepos | 10:00 |
| ggabriel | and it depends on what you use it for | 10:00 |
| Nicd- | hmm, maybe I should reflash my N900 and use it for something | 10:00 |
| FIQ | and not sure if the repositories are still alive | 10:00 |
| Nicd- | CSSU made it not boot :D | 10:00 |
| FIQ | Nicd-: nice :P | 10:00 |
| pvanhoof | ok, updated | 10:00 |
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| * FIQ solves that by waiting a few days before updating | 10:00 | |
| pvanhoof | about the n9, just chmod -x smartsearchd after rooting it (or just gainroot it) | 10:01 |
| pvanhoof | it'll work fine | 10:01 |
| FIQ | smartsearchd? | 10:01 |
| pvanhoof | yes a daemon that extract textual data from tracker's meta.db by manually connecting to the sqlite db, and that drains your battery because of it | 10:02 |
| FIQ | lol | 10:02 |
| * FIQ never liked N900 tracker | 10:02 | |
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| pvanhoof | we tried to talk sense into the guys in that team, but they where lost. And that crap got shipped on the device | 10:02 |
| FIQ | basically turned it off ASAP when I found out how | 10:02 |
| pvanhoof | n900 tracker has gotten rewritten during harmattan | 10:02 |
| pvanhoof | almost completely | 10:02 |
| Nicd- | I bought the Mugen XL battery for my N900 so I never had to worry about battery life :p | 10:03 |
| pvanhoof | on git.gnome.org n900 tracker is the 0.6 branch, you can make a diff between the 0.6 and 0.7 branch to know how harmattan's tracker project got started | 10:03 |
| FIQ | heh | 10:03 |
| pvanhoof | what runs on your jolla is obviously the rewritten stuff from the n9, plus some upstream improvements | 10:03 |
| pvanhoof | and without smartsearchd crap | 10:04 |
| flux | I've been much happier with jolla battery than with n9's though (can't remember n900 default battery anymore) - after disabling tohd, of course | 10:04 |
| FIQ | Nicd-: you're nicd on qnet? | 10:05 |
| pvanhoof | n900 wasn't bad, but many of the people who worked on it where younger back then, so less experienced. A lot of its apps had some problems like not going to sleep correctly or writing files that tracker therefor must pick up and wake up other processes, etc. That causes battery drain too | 10:06 |
| Nicd- | FIQ: yes | 10:06 |
| FIQ | Nicd-: cool | 10:06 |
| FIQ | pvanhoof: heh | 10:06 |
| pvanhoof | And also its tracker was a big mess | 10:06 |
| Nicd- | FIQ: I noticed you ages ago but never said anything :P | 10:06 |
| pvanhoof | that's why we rewrote it :) | 10:07 |
| FIQ | Nicd-: :P | 10:07 |
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| * pvanhoof reinstalls all the apps | 10:08 | |
| FIQ | the joy of factory reset device | 10:08 |
| pvanhoof | ah damn, the multiselect thing is gone from the store? i have to install them one by one? | 10:09 |
| FIQ | takes a while for me to get my N900 usable after a reflash, I guess the same applies for jolla | 10:09 |
| pvanhoof | Im somewhere in the middle on this, i didn't like how so much got preinstalled on the n9 and n900, but letting the email client be an app instead of standard infrastructure .. | 10:10 |
| FIQ | allthough the biggest reason it takes me a while is HAM... so I guess it's a bit smoother for jolla user | 10:10 |
| FIQ | s | 10:10 |
| pvanhoof | ah the store just crashed | 10:11 |
| FIQ | or not | 10:11 |
| pvanhoof | ok so, bugreport :). install a lot of apps in the background, when the mail app is installed store crashes | 10:11 |
| pvanhoof | not reproducable btw | 10:12 |
| Stskeeps | 1.0.0.5? | 10:13 |
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| Stskeeps | VDVsx: ^ | 10:13 |
| AL13N_work | pvanhoof: btw: wrt to Tracker, if i'm having NFS mount points the tracker doesn't handle it too well (for music and videos) | 10:17 |
| AL13N_work | it takes age | 10:17 |
| AL13N_work | *ages | 10:17 |
| AL13N_work | otoh, if i was able to select in media player something untracked, then that problem would dissapear :-) | 10:17 |
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| pvanhoof | Right now there is nothing special in upstream nor downstream tracker to handle nfs mounts , and some metadata extraction of some filetypes might not be ideal for nfs | 10:18 |
| pvanhoof | However, I know of at least one company that is planning to integrate tracker with samba and other such network file sharing technologies | 10:19 |
| pvanhoof | Perhaps they will improve this? You can follow this in the upstream mailing list | 10:19 |
| pvanhoof | Wrt integrating this on jolla, to select not to track it or something: i guess that could be done. Convince aard to put it on my backlog :) | 10:20 |
| AL13N_work | well, tbh, i'd prefer to actually not track them, since mounts can appear and disappear if wlan is broken and stuff like that, but meh | 10:20 |
| pvanhoof | I guess it shouldn't track them idd, I wonder howcome it is doing that .. | 10:21 |
| AL13N_work | pvanhoof: no, i'd just mount it outside of ~nemo/Music/ to begin with :-) | 10:21 |
| pvanhoof | yes, if you mount it in ~nemo/Music then tracker doesn't know and sees that as a directory being added | 10:21 |
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| pvanhoof | I guess the fix would be not to mount it there in case of a nfs mount | 10:21 |
| AL13N_work | no, i mkdir ~nemo/Music/server | 10:21 |
| AL13N_work | and mounted there | 10:21 |
| AL13N_work | and that worked | 10:21 |
| AL13N_work | but very slowly | 10:22 |
| pvanhoof | yes, to be expected.. | 10:22 |
| pvanhoof | However the media player needs the metadata to display your files | 10:22 |
| AL13N_work | if media player could play outside of tracker (ondemand) then, i would mount it outside | 10:22 |
| pvanhoof | nod, that's for mediaplayer team to implement though | 10:22 |
| AL13N_work | yes | 10:22 |
| tbr | filebrowser doesn't launch media player? | 10:23 |
| pvanhoof | perhaps I can provide a minimal extraction in case of nfs mount being detected | 10:23 |
| AL13N_work | i'd prefer that, to tracker handling network mounts | 10:23 |
| pvanhoof | that's a possibility | 10:23 |
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| pvanhoof | in that case I would just annotate it with the right mime type so that media player sees the files, but don't do metadata extraction | 10:23 |
| AL13N_work | tbr: pvanhoof: filebrowser to launch media player on a directory would be enough for me | 10:23 |
| pvanhoof | and that would be fast then | 10:23 |
| AL13N_work | pvanhoof: or only when being played | 10:23 |
| pvanhoof | i think the app developers want to target only one method of finding music pieces | 10:24 |
| AL13N_work | well, it doesn't have to be easy, i just want the possibility | 10:24 |
| AL13N_work | cli if it must | 10:24 |
| pvanhoof | it's basically a sparql query and a callback on our signal that tells them when there is new content | 10:24 |
| pvanhoof | well i think detecting nfs and then making the decision not to do a full metadata extraction | 10:25 |
| pvanhoof | For that i need udisks2 and gvfs Aard :) | 10:25 |
| pvanhoof | In your use-case that 'server' directory is being seen as just a directory to recursively index, AL13N_work | 10:25 |
| pvanhoof | On NFS that'll go slow and bad, indeed | 10:26 |
| pvanhoof | Carlos is working upstream on two-phase extraction | 10:26 |
| pvanhoof | That'll also solve it | 10:26 |
| pvanhoof | That means that we do a minimal upfront, and music player will already see it, and then slowly in the background a second phase that fetches the rest of the metadata | 10:27 |
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| pvanhoof | But this is not for today, he's doing the rework and refactoring now and it'll probably be for upstream 0.18.x, whereas next jolla upgrade is expected to get a 0.17.x tracker and current is 0.14.x | 10:28 |
| pvanhoof | Also this is something you can followup at upstream tracker mailing list | 10:28 |
| pvanhoof | And you can help the guys working on this :) | 10:28 |
| pvanhoof | https://git.gnome.org/browse/tracker/log/?h=wip/passive-extraction | 10:28 |
| pvanhoof | That's the branch | 10:28 |
| pvanhoof | I'll also need to test this new stuff really really well before pushing it to Jolla | 10:29 |
| pvanhoof | As it's a big change in architecture | 10:29 |
| pvanhoof | AL13N_work, Two-phase or passive-extract as Carlos calls it will not improve network bandwidth utilization though, so don't do this over a NFS mounted using roaming 3G network ;-) | 10:30 |
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| AL13N_work | pvanhoof: and i also need a higher buffer for media player (some kind of settings), cause my WLAN isn't working well | 11:02 |
| pvanhoof | That's for the mediaplayer guys | 11:02 |
| zutto | what player does jolla commonly use? | 11:02 |
| AL13N_work | well, i'd hope that the wlan get fixed really | 11:02 |
| pvanhoof | ok, file a bug :) | 11:02 |
| AL13N_work | i did | 11:03 |
| AL13N_work | i get duplicated traffic and lotsa packet loss | 11:03 |
| pvanhoof | be patient, small company, lot's of work to do :) | 11:03 |
| AL13N_work | and it's sort of in bursts working | 11:03 |
| AL13N_work | pvanhoof: i know | 11:03 |
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| pvanhoof | they work insanely hard though | 11:03 |
| pvanhoof | and/or help out. find the kernel module being used, check out its code. Perhaps it's something obvious | 11:05 |
| pvanhoof | you can try making the mtu smaller, ifconfig $device mtu 1000 | 11:05 |
| pvanhoof | and/or the txqueue and rxqueue | 11:05 |
| AL13N_work | increase the buffers ... | 11:06 |
| pvanhoof | mtu is the size per ip packet, rxqueue is receive queue, txqueue is transmit queue | 11:06 |
| pvanhoof | if your queues are filled up, i think the network stack of the kernel drops packets | 11:06 |
| pvanhoof | But this can depend on the implementation of the wifi hw's kernel module. I've seen really bad ones that just ignore those settings | 11:07 |
| AL13N_work | i'm looking for aard's reply on that wlan thing | 11:07 |
| pvanhoof | I haven't looked at the code that the jolla hw uses though | 11:07 |
| AL13N_work | on together there is one | 11:07 |
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| AL13N_work | pvanhoof: | 11:08 |
| AL13N_work | https://together.jolla.com/question/4047/wifi-issues-sometimes-keeps-disconnecting-and-reconnecting/#comment-13942https://together.jolla.com/question/4047/wifi-issues-sometimes-keeps-disconnecting-and-reconnecting/#comment-13942 | 11:08 |
| pvanhoof | And for some hw certain settings yield better results. ie. if usb is used a mtu of 1500 (default for most devices) is usually good | 11:08 |
| AL13N_work | https://together.jolla.com/question/4047/wifi-issues-sometimes-keeps-disconnecting-and-reconnecting/#comment-13942 | 11:08 |
| AL13N_work | sorry | 11:08 |
| pettter | so, there's no way to add XMPP contacts? | 11:09 |
| pvanhoof | ok yes, but im no expert in this for jolla's hw. So although those are the tips i gave you i'm still the wrong person to ask :) | 11:09 |
| AL13N_work | pvanhoof: not sure if what AArd is talking about will actually fix my issue, or if it's a HW issue | 11:09 |
| pvanhoof | things are rarely a hw issue, but if they are they are :) | 11:09 |
| AL13N_work | pvanhoof: i'm just afraid that it'll end up being an issue noone else has and i'd have to send my jolla back | 11:10 |
| pvanhoof | try to get your hands on the code dealing with the wifi hw, and see if it's sane | 11:10 |
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| pvanhoof | unlikely, if it's a hw issue with your phone I would expect that wifi wouldn't work at all | 11:10 |
| AL13N_work | latency is flaky, sometimes i have packet loss for a few packets and sometimes i have duplicate traffic | 11:11 |
| AL13N_work | it sounds like a firmware issue | 11:11 |
| AL13N_work | but | 11:11 |
| AL13N_work | donno | 11:11 |
| AL13N_work | (or driver) | 11:11 |
| pvanhoof | try another type of router too btw, some combinations have weird behavior | 11:11 |
| pvanhoof | And the router market is filled up with idiots | 11:11 |
| pvanhoof | you have no idea.. | 11:12 |
| AL13N_work | i don't doubt that | 11:12 |
| AL13N_work | but i was looking at the air from laptop wifi | 11:12 |
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| AL13N_work | to exclude the router | 11:12 |
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| pvanhoof | did some work for option a few months ago: it wasn't unusual that just the presence of some junk hw (being turned on) was killing any performance of each and every wifi of type X | 11:13 |
| pvanhoof | because there was a firmware bug in X being triggered by the turned on junk hw | 11:14 |
| pvanhoof | making the firmware reset itself each 2 minutes | 11:14 |
| pvanhoof | so every 2 minutes you'd have huge packet loss until the reset is done, and then it would work for two minutes and reset again | 11:14 |
| pvanhoof | Welcome to the world of idiots in the router industry | 11:15 |
| FIQ | bad routers... uhhh | 11:15 |
| pvanhoof | Cheap routers because consumer don't want to pay more than 100 dollars for their network equipment, so cheap salaries, so much idiots | 11:15 |
| FIQ | don't remind me of thomson | 11:16 |
| pvanhoof | nod :) | 11:16 |
| FIQ | not sure if the router itself is bad per se, but our ISP decided it was a good idea to make that router unusable and buggy | 11:16 |
| AL13N_work | that seems nice... | 11:16 |
| pvanhoof | AL13N_work, workaround that i saw for a file descriptor leak in libgobi*something for software that manages a gobi 3g: | 11:16 |
| pvanhoof | AL13N_work, every 5 minutes do killall mcmd (the daemon managing the 3g hw), and let it get restarted by the watchdogd | 11:17 |
| pvanhoof | Note that restart of that mcmd process mean connection reset of all tcp sessions | 11:17 |
| AL13N_work | i thought we were talking about wifi | 11:17 |
| pvanhoof | yes ok but the wifi world is equally bad | 11:18 |
| AL13N_work | oic | 11:18 |
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| pvanhoof | Fixing a leak? nooooo, let's just kill processes! | 11:18 |
| AL13N_work | well, that's easy | 11:18 |
| pvanhoof | We have no time to do real programming, features are king! kill -9 works! | 11:18 |
| AL13N_work | :-) | 11:18 |
| Pnuu | and then there's reboot, too! | 11:19 |
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| pvanhoof | First thing to do is put openwrt on all your wifi routers AL13N_work , and with openwrt you're at least sure that not everything is junk code | 11:19 |
| pvanhoof | Pnuu, idd | 11:19 |
| AL13N_work | the router has openwrt :-) | 11:19 |
| pvanhoof | ok, then the hw might be running firmware written by idiots too | 11:20 |
| AL13N_work | sure | 11:20 |
| AL13N_work | it's a netgear | 11:20 |
| AL13N_work | with atheros chipset | 11:20 |
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| pvanhoof | but yes, because you're using openwrt that sort of means that you can exclude the router being junk .. | 11:21 |
| CoderCandy | Ooh, bad routers? | 11:22 |
| CoderCandy | You mean like those that reboots for no apparent reason all the time | 11:23 |
| FIQ | mine does this :( | 11:23 |
| pvanhoof | the reason is idiots at work | 11:23 |
| CoderCandy | and port forwarding works... sometimes? | 11:23 |
| FIQ | I thought it was dodgy connection at first | 11:23 |
| FIQ | Then I noticed a significant detail | 11:23 |
| pvanhoof | you just have to name the problem repeatedly and maybe the idiots will finally realize that they need to find another job | 11:23 |
| FIQ | if I rebooted the router forcibly, it made this click sound | 11:24 |
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| FIQ | and I came to the conclusion that the router simply rebooted from time to time | 11:24 |
| FIQ | without provocation | 11:24 |
| pvanhoof | another problem is project managers liking idiots more than good developers, because idiots don't ask questions and commit that change to the crontab configuration to reboot the router every hour | 11:24 |
| CoderCandy | I'd totally choose my own router, if it weren't for the fact that my router is also my dsl modem | 11:24 |
| FIQ | stupid thing | 11:24 |
| FIQ | my router is a retarded isp gateway | 11:25 |
| FIQ | hate it with a passion | 11:25 |
| FIQ | but I'm stuck with it | 11:25 |
| pvanhoof | the fix is to completely ignore what the project manager and junior developers have made, and use openwrt. | 11:25 |
| CoderCandy | and there's no way to disable the router functionality on my isp's "patched" firmware | 11:25 |
| pvanhoof | just buy a openwrt-capable router and connect it to that ISP DSL modem somehow | 11:26 |
| pvanhoof | and ignore their crap | 11:26 |
| FIQ | there is a work-around for my retarded router | 11:26 |
| pvanhoof | good old cat6 | 11:26 |
| FIQ | but it's convulted, and tends to simply not work occasionally | 11:26 |
| FIQ | and breaks after a while, needing to redo it again | 11:26 |
| CoderCandy | Sure, but I can't disable NAT on my dsl modem | 11:27 |
| CoderCandy | And I don't want double NAT | 11:27 |
| pvanhoof | the dsl modem has no utp cable connection without nat? | 11:27 |
| pvanhoof | ah just configure your openwrt to be a bridge then | 11:27 |
| FIQ | it involves resetting the router, rooting it, attach isp DSL cables, stay logged in to the deleted admin account (yay bugs!), create your own, and from this, enable sane configuration (read: bridge mode to a real router) | 11:28 |
| pvanhoof | ebtables or something | 11:28 |
| FIQ | but it breaks each time the ISP decides to update the firmware | 11:28 |
| CoderCandy | FIQ, ooh, what router do you have? | 11:28 |
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| FIQ | thomson tg789vn | 11:29 |
| pvanhoof | men i kinda feel sorry for the world for having to be exposed to the telecom-routers industry | 11:29 |
| sremes | does the ISP not allow 3rd party dsl modems? | 11:29 |
| pvanhoof | If I hear FIQ's story it all comes back ... | 11:29 |
| FIQ | no, I have to use this | 11:29 |
| CoderCandy | Heh, same router | 11:29 |
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| CoderCandy | I think | 11:29 |
| CoderCandy | What I want from my ISP is an ethernet port with a non-nat connection | 11:30 |
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| CoderCandy | then I can plug whatever into the port and be happy! | 11:31 |
| FIQ | did I mention that the ISP happily allows bridging for you themselves... if you call their premium support line | 11:31 |
| pvanhoof | Basically, the consumer routers industry has lost it. They are completely broken. Almost no firm still make quality routers. Better get that old linksys out of the box in your attic and put openwrt on it. That's way better than whatever you can buy today (if your linksys still works) | 11:31 |
| FIQ | :D | 11:31 |
| FIQ | (i.e. w/o necessity to "root" it yourself) | 11:32 |
| pvanhoof | And hope for better times, a company in the industry seeing that hiring bad project managers and cheap developers isn't the right way to do it | 11:32 |
| CoderCandy | Or break your wallet and buy industry network equipment... | 11:32 |
| pvanhoof | yep | 11:32 |
| pvanhoof | and the bad stuff is even leaking to the industry network equipment too nowadays | 11:32 |
| sharpneli | pvanhoof: Well it is. The routers made that way are cheaper and thus they get more money. | 11:32 |
| FIQ | I had an earlier router before this, before we (read: my mom) changed data plan | 11:33 |
| pvanhoof | sharpneli, unfortunately yes. Capitalism is failing here because consumers don't understand. And now there are NO good brands anymore | 11:33 |
| FIQ | it didn't run openwrt, but it was definitely good enough | 11:33 |
| Nicd- | I'm quite happy with my Asus router | 11:33 |
| AL13N_work | anyway, i've used this router for a while with openwrt, only the jolla has issues, i'm more inclined to look at the jolla | 11:33 |
| FIQ | as it allowed you some real freedom and configuration | 11:33 |
| Nicd- | though installed DD-WRT on it to enable SSH | 11:33 |
| kehnoo | eh, I've got tons of those old Linksys' boxes but alas, they're limited to 11g which is painfully slow | 11:34 |
| pvanhoof | Nicd-, that DD-WRT explains why you're satisfied. Mostof the problems in the routers industry has to do with its software developers | 11:34 |
| pvanhoof | The hw is used in other appliances too so that's usually okay-ish | 11:34 |
| CoderCandy | I'm thinking of building my own system, using an old computer as NAT, and a switch to connect stuff to it | 11:34 |
| Nicd- | well, I didn't try the stock firmware at all | 11:34 |
| pvanhoof | goodthinking | 11:34 |
| CoderCandy | Can't be worse than what's on the market... | 11:34 |
| kehnoo | same, but I use tomato-USB because I like pretty web guis :p | 11:35 |
| AL13N_work | :-) | 11:35 |
| Nicd- | I do have an Apple Airport Extreme too, that has stock firmware (naturally) and I'm really happy with it too | 11:35 |
| FIQ | (my previous router was called "AirLink") | 11:35 |
| FIQ | weird name, never seen it anywhere | 11:35 |
| FIQ | probably inferior to openwrt, but it did what I wanted | 11:36 |
| FIQ | so it was good enough | 11:36 |
| CoderCandy | But it worked? | 11:36 |
| atlaz | Oh man, i just found some code i've documented after watching Full Metal Jacket (again) | 11:36 |
| FIQ | yeah | 11:36 |
| atlaz | $toobeaucoup = $this->Cart_model->checkCartForOverlySizedProducts(60); // fifteen dolla, too beaucoup | 11:36 |
| FIQ | it worked | 11:36 |
| atlaz | if($toobeaucoup){ // What we have here, little yellow sister, is a magnificent specimen of pure Alabama Blacksnake. But it ain't too goddamned beaucoup. | 11:36 |
| CoderCandy | Also, really want that hw kbd OH... | 11:36 |
| CoderCandy | I have SOO much trouble with touchboards | 11:37 |
| FIQ | the 2 main reasons as to why I don't have a jolla | 11:37 |
| FIQ | is inferior TS (imo) and lack of hw-kbd | 11:37 |
| CoderCandy | TS? | 11:37 |
| ggabriel | timestamp? | 11:37 |
| ggabriel | :) | 11:37 |
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| FIQ | but I'm considering getting one if my N900 decides it's time for it to sleep forever | 11:38 |
| FIQ | no, touch screen | 11:38 |
| ggabriel | touchscreen is pretty good actually | 11:38 |
| CoderCandy | Oh, good old capicstive? | 11:38 |
| ggabriel | prolly needs some tweaking tho | 11:38 |
| FIQ | it's capacitive :p | 11:38 |
| ggabriel | ah, so that thing | 11:38 |
| ggabriel | i really don't care that much about that | 11:39 |
| CoderCandy | Me neither :P | 11:39 |
| FIQ | haven't used jolla screen specifically, but I find iphone/android a pain to use due to that | 11:39 |
| FIQ | *iphones/androids | 11:39 |
| ggabriel | i find ios/android a pain to use because they are ios/android :) | 11:39 |
| FIQ | that too, obv | 11:39 |
| ggabriel | n9 is a breeze in comparison | 11:39 |
| CoderCandy | Eh, I did enjoy being able to "feel" the touch of my n900 | 11:40 |
| ggabriel | did the nokia 5800 have resistive too? | 11:40 |
| CoderCandy | But I also enjoy the multitouch of jolla | 11:40 |
| ggabriel | (was it resistive?) | 11:40 |
| FIQ | regardless of what your opinion on ts tech are | 11:40 |
| faenil | ggabriel, yes 5800 resistive | 11:40 |
| FIQ | there's one major showstopper for me | 11:40 |
| ggabriel | yeah, it's quite fun to "feel" the touch | 11:40 |
| FIQ | and that's the lack of hw-kbd | 11:40 |
| ggabriel | FIQ: i'm waiting for a hw-kbd other half, mind you | 11:41 |
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| FIQ | (oh and fyi, resistive screens can do multitouch :p) | 11:41 |
| zutto | i'm waiting for keyboard to jolla too ;O | 11:41 |
| Nicd- | I thought the N900 screen was terrible | 11:41 |
| ggabriel | yup, the 5800 used to do pinch to zoom | 11:41 |
| CoderCandy | The n900 couldn't | 11:41 |
| Nicd- | I didn't like the resistive style at all | 11:41 |
| faenil | FIQ, did they make any advancement for the curving resistive ts issue? | 11:41 |
| Nicd- | and much prefer modern capacitive displays | 11:41 |
| FIQ | Nicd-: I love n900's touch screen | 11:41 |
| faenil | you know, after a long time the upper layer touches the lower one, and you get all kind of fun | 11:41 |
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| CoderCandy | Woo, fun! | 11:42 |
| FIQ | allthough there's terrible resistive screens | 11:42 |
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| ggabriel | resistive is a lot easier to use with gloves tho | 11:42 |
| CoderCandy | True | 11:42 |
| kehnoo | I just use my Jolla and refuse to go out if I need gloves | 11:42 |
| ggabriel | kehnoo: lol | 11:43 |
| FIQ | faenil: well, my N900 is pixel perfect :p | 11:43 |
| kehnoo | :p | 11:43 |
| CoderCandy | I used to make a joke with "I can control my phone with ANY phone" | 11:43 |
| ggabriel | kehnoo: that's the best excuse to stay in i heard in a while | 11:43 |
| FIQ | I heard *capacitive* screens have curve issues though, at least around the corners | 11:43 |
| FIQ | maybe you're mixing stuff up? | 11:43 |
| CoderCandy | And then I proved it by touching their phone to my phones touchscreen xD | 11:43 |
| faenil | FIQ, yeah, though you don't need the 5px at the edge usually | 11:43 |
| kehnoo | also you can use your nose outside instead of fingers | 11:43 |
| faenil | FIQ, no no it's two completely different issues | 11:44 |
| ggabriel | kehnoo: O.O that's a great idea | 11:44 |
| FIQ | faenil: mkay | 11:44 |
| FIQ | well, N900's screen is perfect | 11:44 |
| CoderCandy | Or get ts friendly gloves? | 11:44 |
| kehnoo | somehow I have bad circulation and when I had iPhone I had to answer it quite many times with my nose | 11:44 |
| ggabriel | CoderCandy: if you do different sports, there aren't ts friendly gloves for everything | 11:45 |
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| kehnoo | so my fingers wouldn't register as live? or something :D | 11:45 |
| FIQ | at least when I tried a few years ago, perhaps it has been damaged slightly since but unlikely | 11:45 |
| faenil | FIQ, resistive is made of two layers, so potentially if the upper layer deformes over time and touches the lower layer, you're screwed | 11:45 |
| faenil | and that happened on a lot of phones after some time | 11:45 |
| FIQ | faenil: sounds.. "fun" | 11:45 |
| kehnoo | oh and the touch screen on E7 worked with my work gloves on, I guess they were leather or something | 11:45 |
| FIQ | I had an odd bug for a few days a few months ago with a small area on n900 completely losing proper touch | 11:46 |
| CoderCandy | I don't have gloves | 11:46 |
| faenil | FIQ, indeed, capacitive doesn't have that problem, but it's less precise and requires contact | 11:46 |
| FIQ | (it was like 20px off) | 11:46 |
| CoderCandy | I'm cold xD | 11:46 |
| FIQ | but it fixed itself afterwards | 11:46 |
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| FIQ | perhaps this was the cause? | 11:46 |
| ggabriel | CoderCandy: i can't avoid them when y cycle/run these days | 11:46 |
| faenil | FIQ, could be | 11:46 |
| CoderCandy | Time to get off train, see ya | 11:47 |
| ggabriel | cycling is ok, but when running i need to check the speed every once in a while | 11:47 |
| * FIQ have had his phone for 4 years, and it has started to break apart in some places | 11:47 | |
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| FIQ | main issues for me being broken usb | 11:48 |
| FIQ | (semi broken) | 11:48 |
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| FIQ | *issue | 11:48 |
| ggabriel | my gf's e7's usb is broken :( | 11:48 |
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| FIQ | it works | 11:48 |
| ggabriel | sadly, she'll get my n9 when i switch | 11:48 |
| FIQ | I can reflash on emergency | 11:48 |
| FIQ | but it *barely* works | 11:48 |
| ggabriel | (and she'll most probably break/scratch it) | 11:48 |
| FIQ | so I charge externally | 11:48 |
| FIQ | and refuse to use the usb port | 11:49 |
| ggabriel | yeah, that's something that you can't do with the e7 :) | 11:49 |
| FIQ | heh... | 11:49 |
| FIQ | non-removable battery? | 11:49 |
| kehnoo | yup | 11:49 |
| FIQ | ouch | 11:49 |
| ggabriel | yup, same as n9 | 11:49 |
| FIQ | evil | 11:49 |
| ggabriel | it's a good thing that the jolla has a removable one | 11:49 |
| FIQ | *cough*planned obsolence | 11:49 |
| ggabriel | i have to say tho: a lot less dust goes into the phone internals | 11:49 |
| kehnoo | I've got spare E7 and spare scratch-free almost new housings (black, pink and white) and screen for N9 :) | 11:50 |
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| Milo- | Any clue when the next OS update is to be launched? | 12:25 |
| Milo- | other than "when it's ready" :) | 12:25 |
| Nicd- | DNA told me this month | 12:26 |
| tabasko | this year | 12:27 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | https://twitter.com/JollaHQ/status/425976105024380929 | 12:27 |
| zutto | the next 10 years is a good timeframe | 12:27 |
| ggabriel | Milo-: def 31st january | 12:28 |
| ggabriel | (or earlier) | 12:28 |
| Milo- | HarhaanJohtaja cheers | 12:28 |
| pp_ | suppose it's better that they fix as much as possible so less reason to wait for the update after this one :P | 12:28 |
| Milo- | ggabriel har har! :) | 12:28 |
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| Milo- | I'm still waiting for someone (else) to port ecoach or sportstracker :P | 12:29 |
| ggabriel | i keep my expectations low tho | 12:29 |
| ggabriel | i want meerun | 12:29 |
| ggabriel | there's a sport tracker or similar, but didn't try it | 12:29 |
| Milo- | not in harbour | 12:29 |
| ggabriel | i can wait for meerun or use the n9 accordingly | 12:29 |
| ggabriel | Milo-: in the jolla store | 12:29 |
| ggabriel | well, i think i saw one | 12:29 |
| ggabriel | i may be wrong | 12:29 |
| Milo- | must have been an android app | 12:29 |
| ggabriel | oh, they mix them, don't they | 12:30 |
| Milo- | I don't register those, because the UX is just horrible. | 12:30 |
| ggabriel | could well be | 12:30 |
| * ggabriel cd coffee | 12:30 | |
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| pp_ | looks like they've been busy committing to nemomobile github in the last few days | 12:32 |
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| Milo- | meerun seems interesting | 12:40 |
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| ggabriel | Milo-: prolly not as complete as sportstracker just yet, but you can export your activity to open standards :D | 12:43 |
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| Milo- | yep :) | 12:44 |
| Milo- | ecoach has the same "issue" | 12:45 |
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| Nicd- | yay, my first TJC post: https://together.jolla.com/question/18948/request-save-phone-model-in-photo-exif/ | 12:53 |
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| dazo | Is it expected that the WLAN disconnects regularly? I'm using ActiveSync against two servers with push ... and that kind of fails when WLAN disconnects automatically. The N900 never did this, and other WLAN equipment have stable connections when this happens | 14:24 |
| dazo | (I'm also often seeing "Problem with connection" errors when I use the WLAN actively, like browsing web sites) | 14:25 |
| ggabriel | dazo: that seems to be a known error, there is a post in tjc (or several) | 14:27 |
| ggabriel | e.g., y restarted my AP the other day and the jolla never connected again | 14:27 |
| ggabriel | i even crashed it trying to reconnect | 14:27 |
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| dazo | ggabriel: ahh, okay ... thx! Then I know it's not just me :) | 14:37 |
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| flux | one thing I like about jolla is that I can put it on its side and it stays up. surprisingly well, infact, given how thin it is. | 15:29 |
| flux | could be useful for taking pics :) | 15:29 |
| ggabriel | ha, so true | 15:29 |
| ggabriel | now we need a timer function :P | 15:30 |
| ggabriel | or even better | 15:30 |
| ggabriel | you shout at it | 15:30 |
| ggabriel | "eeehh, take a picture" | 15:30 |
| ggabriel | waits a second for you to smile and does it | 15:30 |
| * pvanhoof 's going to press refresh in jolla store waiting for ggabriel's app that does that | 15:31 | |
| ggabriel | pvanhoof: :) i don't program i'm afraid ENOTIME | 15:31 |
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| mikma | heh, for some reason my jolla didn't play any ringtones when i had volume on | 15:42 |
| mikma | i had to do a factory reset | 15:42 |
| ggabriel | i think a few folks had that issue | 15:43 |
| ggabriel | i blame android | 15:43 |
| ggabriel | because it's free ;-) | 15:43 |
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| * Acce yawns | 15:52 | |
| Acce | how is everyone doing? | 15:52 |
| * ggabriel wants more holidays or a jolla update, but not together as that may cause heart failure due to excitement | 15:53 | |
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| Acce | ggabriel: update would be nice, but no more holidays for me starting tomorrow, I hope | 15:55 |
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| * AL13N_work wants a new job :-) | 16:30 | |
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| Acce | AL13N_work: what are you doing currently then? :o | 16:35 |
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| AL13N_work | Acce: Consultant at a small Linux firm | 16:41 |
| AL13N_work | for about 10y | 16:41 |
| AL13N_work | Acce: i can understand that most people would think this a dream job... | 16:41 |
| AL13N_work | i would like to be paid to work on open-source... | 16:41 |
| AL13N_work | cause, i'm sorta at a dead end | 16:42 |
| AL13N_work | Acce: so, you've been ill or something and starting a job? | 16:42 |
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| Acce | AL13N_work: I see.. too bad! Yeah, I'm having a meeting about a project I'll probably get into. Too bad it will take some sailfish time from me though :) | 16:46 |
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| Kiranos | pretty quite on the jolla news front, :( | 18:38 |
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| pvanhoof | Kiranos, people are working hard. Fixing insanely hard bugs that cause a huge amount of frustration, caused by several layers of legacy, nih, abstractions and worst of all crap 3th party developers | 18:42 |
| pvanhoof | Kiranos, any other news items you need or expected? | 18:42 |
| pvanhoof | Oh, it's also in the news that the jolla device still can't go faster then the speed of light, just like it was predicted by scientists all over the world. | 18:44 |
| pvanhoof | Working on that, though | 18:44 |
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| Quu | egh | 19:12 |
| Quu | feking pycage keeps posting "answers" | 19:12 |
| Quu | and they are so wrooong | 19:12 |
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| Stskeeps | Quu: such as? | 19:14 |
| Quu | well, first one was "factory reset helps" | 19:15 |
| Quu | now he posted that it started after 1.0.2.5 update | 19:15 |
| Quu | and is dependant on cell-towers | 19:15 |
| Quu | and automatic time update | 19:15 |
| Quu | and i cant even post comments and yell at him | 19:15 |
| AL13N | why not? | 19:17 |
| Quu | cant post comments? i dont know | 19:18 |
| Quu | never worked for me | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | what browser? | 19:18 |
| Quu | chrome AND firefox | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | odd | 19:19 |
| Quu | firefox has 0 addons installed | 19:19 |
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| AL13N | Quu: not logged in? | 19:20 |
| AL13N | account blocked? | 19:20 |
| AL13N | i have firefox | 19:20 |
| Quu | please im not that stupid ;p | 19:20 |
| AL13N | how about a hacked firefox? | 19:20 |
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| AL13N | or perhaps DNS blacklisting | 19:21 |
| Quu | i can access the site and vote stuff | 19:21 |
| Acce | How exactly does it not work? no buttons? sending just doesnt work? | 19:21 |
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| Quu | after i press the-whatever-send-button, it just reloads the page and nothing happens | 19:22 |
| AL13N | old FF?, new FF? | 19:22 |
| Quu | should be newest | 19:22 |
| AL13N | too new | 19:23 |
| AL13N | i got 24.1.1 | 19:23 |
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| motiejus | hello. I am trying to update from sailfish 1.0.0.5, and it says "up to date" | 19:24 |
| motiejus | though apparently there is at least 10.0.1.x | 19:24 |
| motiejus | any ideas how to update? | 19:25 |
| AL13N | go to settings | 19:25 |
| AL13N | device info | 19:25 |
| AL13N | pull down to check updates | 19:25 |
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| pvanhoof | Import contacts at settings->apps->people only shows From SIM card | 19:32 |
| pvanhoof | Why isn't it showing any other source? Like from vcf file? | 19:32 |
| Acce | pvanhoof: if you download a vcf file to your phone, it should show up there | 19:32 |
| Acce | at least, for me it did | 19:32 |
| pvanhoof | it must be in the download folder? | 19:32 |
| Acce | hmm try that, if other location is not workign | 19:33 |
| pvanhoof | ok | 19:33 |
| Acce | I just sent it to myself by email, so it probably was saved to Downloads | 19:33 |
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| pvanhoof | nod | 19:34 |
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| pvanhoof | all this stuff needs to be made more easy . | 19:35 |
| Raim | I opened the .vcf from the Files app. that worked, too | 19:35 |
| pvanhoof | yes, from file suddenly appears | 19:36 |
| pvanhoof | i like the idea but it's all too vague and unconnected .. | 19:36 |
| Raim | too much magic, I would not have looked there because there was no such option visible before | 19:36 |
| pvanhoof | you need to know that Downloads folder is 'special' | 19:37 |
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| pvanhoof | yeah a button in the people's settings pane 'look somewhere else' would have been nice .. | 19:37 |
| motiejus | @AL13N did that. Says "up to date" after checking for updates | 19:38 |
| pvanhoof | how was i supposed to know this shit? | 19:38 |
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| motiejus | internet connectivity confirmed working as well. | 19:38 |
| pvanhoof | im a developer with years of experience, i understand this. Normal people just wont | 19:38 |
| AL13N | motiejus: i did this 3 times, and/or waited a bit | 19:38 |
| pvanhoof | they just wont | 19:38 |
| AL13N | it didn't work right away | 19:38 |
| motiejus | @AL13N will retry every half hour or so then. | 19:38 |
| AL13N | and i did have to register for the store | 19:38 |
| pvanhoof | and they shouldn't | 19:39 |
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| pvanhoof | it was already quite hard to grasp that i needed to go to settings to import contacts into people | 19:39 |
| pvanhoof | contacts in mu people all aren't settings, they are data | 19:40 |
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| pvanhoof | im all for breaking ui paradigms, but just shifting concepts like settings and data and mixing it all up isn't helping | 19:40 |
| pvanhoof | Whoever is telling you that it's ok is a fanboy. ignore them | 19:41 |
| Acce | pvanhoof: you could post to together.jolla.com about it if you didn't already | 19:41 |
| Acce | It seems to me devs at Jolla are reading it more often that IRC | 19:42 |
| pvanhoof | oh, don't worry, i can ping devs at jolla | 19:42 |
| pvanhoof | just trying to 'get' the current jolla ui | 19:42 |
| Acce | ok | 19:43 |
| pvanhoof | I think it's too much of 'let's try this, to be different', and not enough: just make stuff that just works | 19:43 |
| AL13N | pvanhoof: afaiu, the app settings are all there (which is also advanced options) | 19:43 |
| Acce | I guess I was just lucky then, since I emailed my contacts and then opened the file in transfers after downloading it and that was it | 19:43 |
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| pvanhoof | sorry for being critical :), I'm totally for the general idea behind jolla | 19:43 |
| AL13N | nono | 19:43 |
| AL13N | i'm just saying it like i see it | 19:44 |
| pvanhoof | yes but app settings have nothing to do with app data | 19:44 |
| AL13N | i think it's like this, the app stuff is for what you use every day | 19:44 |
| AL13N | and the settings apps is for stuff you need every now and then | 19:44 |
| pvanhoof | If the app is contacts or people, then the data is my friends' data or people or contacts | 19:44 |
| pvanhoof | the settings are things like where to get that data from | 19:44 |
| pvanhoof | the settings aren't the data itself | 19:44 |
| AL13N | isn't import also a setting? | 19:45 |
| Acce | I have to agree that having an "import contacts from a file" somewhere would be clearer | 19:45 |
| pvanhoof | no not in my paradigm | 19:45 |
| pvanhoof | but im old, im from the eighties | 19:45 |
| AL13N | i would've liked a way for each app to get directly to the app settings | 19:45 |
| pvanhoof | i agree. i must be ok with new paradigms | 19:45 |
| AL13N | i'm from '81 | 19:45 |
| pvanhoof | oh, im 81 too :) | 19:45 |
| Acce | but since Jolla hasn't yet made a file picker.. | 19:45 |
| pvanhoof | anyway | 19:45 |
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| pvanhoof | you don't need a file picker if you do buteo-mtp right | 19:46 |
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| pvanhoof | if a vcf file arrives, buteo-mtp could inform any app that could ever be interested in it about it | 19:46 |
| pvanhoof | no need for a file picker that way | 19:46 |
| Acce | I see | 19:47 |
| pvanhoof | and with tracker that's just a sparql insert, and for the apps a sparql query | 19:47 |
| pvanhoof | and a signal handler on dbus for real-time changes | 19:47 |
| AL13N | i still want a file picker | 19:48 |
| AL13N | and a reasonable file browser | 19:48 |
| pvanhoof | 'Downloads' dir is just a directory, any file that is a vcf should have been listed by that settings-pane of the People app | 19:48 |
| AL13N | if only the file picker for the browser in forms | 19:48 |
| pvanhoof | i agree with a file picker until the integration with tracker isn't perfect | 19:49 |
| AL13N | all these new stuff that hide all the files, that's just stupid | 19:49 |
| pvanhoof | but with perfect integration it's indeed not needed | 19:49 |
| AL13N | well, it might not be needed, but i don't like that | 19:49 |
| pvanhoof | sure a file picker should be an option for geeks like you and me | 19:50 |
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| pvanhoof | no idea why not | 19:50 |
| pvanhoof | but right now it's left out | 19:50 |
| pvanhoof | so then integration should be perfect, and not 'if it's in the Downloads folder, we'll see it. Else we don't' | 19:50 |
| pvanhoof | That's stupid. For the same money you just do a sparql query and you get all the files, not just that Downloads folder | 19:51 |
| pvanhoof | All the vcf files, all the contact cards, everything that can be imported as a contact. Indiscriminate whether it's a file or a facebook record retrieved over facebook's api | 19:51 |
| pvanhoof | Meh, im frustrating myself in how it should be, and Spinoza told me that I should focus on what i can steer and improve 'now' and stop frustrating about 'how it should be'. Apologizes :) | 19:53 |
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| roboro | philospher in the house! | 19:54 |
| pvanhoof | sorry for that :) | 19:54 |
| roboro | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQycQ8DABvc | 19:55 |
| roboro | pvanhoof: don't worry... studied phil myself | 19:55 |
| pvanhoof | Machiavelli influence on Spinoza: work with here and now, don't focus on how things are supposed to be. To change things, you must accept the here and the now | 19:56 |
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| roboro | sounds pretty buddhist :D | 19:56 |
| roboro | or taoist | 19:56 |
| pvanhoof | I guess it does, although I'm not a (spiritual) buddhist | 19:57 |
| roboro | yeah... don't go in for all that bardo rubbish | 19:57 |
| pvanhoof | Mindfulness is a good idea :) | 19:57 |
| roboro | indeed | 19:57 |
| pvanhoof | It's Dutch, but this book is in Flanders getting a lot of attention among phil. students nowadays: http://tinnekebeeckman.com/tag/door-spinozas-lens/ | 19:59 |
| pvanhoof | Hopefully somebody will translate it soon :) | 19:59 |
| roboro | heh... as a south african... I can sort of follow that :) | 20:00 |
| pvanhoof | Tinneke is a philosophy doctorate from bxl, her expertise is Spinoza. Sort of rising star here (among people who are into this) | 20:01 |
| AL13N | pvanhoof: i figured you'd be dutch, not Flemish | 20:01 |
| roboro | mmmm... interesting stuff... I never read spinoza... but have a cursory understanding of some of his ideas | 20:01 |
| pvanhoof | She wrote a humanly readable book about Spinoza, "Door Spinoza's Lens" is the title. I just finished it, which probably explains why I corrected my frustration a few minutes ago ;) | 20:02 |
| pvanhoof | AL13N, it's all the same :) | 20:02 |
| AL13N | no, cause | 20:02 |
| roboro | lol | 20:02 |
| AL13N | we'd have a dutch, belgian and south-african | 20:02 |
| AL13N | we could make a joke | 20:02 |
| roboro | the south african would be the joke | 20:02 |
| pvanhoof | Yes you should make one | 20:03 |
| AL13N | now it's just an SA and 2x BE | 20:03 |
| roboro | I'm sort of britishized now :D | 20:03 |
| AL13N | ah | 20:03 |
| AL13N | tssk | 20:03 |
| roboro | so joke away :D | 20:03 |
| AL13N | no real afrikaner likes the british | 20:03 |
| * AL13N hides | 20:03 | |
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| pvanhoof | After Tinneke's book, I'm totally into Spinoza nowadays, roboro | 20:05 |
| pvanhoof | I read Ethica before, but although some of my own interpretations a few years ago were similar I could't make much of it. Now after the book it all makes sense to me. | 20:06 |
| roboro | that's awesome... I haven't gotten into many of the older philosophers in a while... last I read was Heidegger's Being and Time... took forever to get through | 20:06 |
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| roboro | I tend to try to keep up to date with modern philosophers dealing with Consciousness work etc... probably coz I'm interested in AI | 20:07 |
| pvanhoof | Tried Kant too, and Descartes. Kant is horrible. Descartes was a bit too religious. But that's probably because we was so famous that he couldn't risk going against the church | 20:07 |
| roboro | I actually enjoyed Kant... although I think he is just wildly out of date | 20:08 |
| pvanhoof | Kant can't write, or he writes in incomprehensible sentences | 20:08 |
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| pvanhoof | or maybe im just too stupid | 20:08 |
| roboro | Descartes is interesting... but I agree... very religious writing... | 20:08 |
| roboro | ha ha... if you think Kant is bad... try heidegger | 20:09 |
| roboro | most of that book I spent re-reading sentences over and over and over... | 20:09 |
| pvanhoof | Well you must account for the power the church had. It was dangerous not to write good things about the church-people of his time | 20:09 |
| roboro | I could get through about a page before I fell asleep from pure mental exhaustion :D | 20:10 |
| pvanhoof | Just like how it would be dangerous to write bad things about the US (and not being seen as a t'errist) ;-) | 20:10 |
| AL13N | roboro: i liked this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Joubert_Duquesne | 20:10 |
| pvanhoof | +now | 20:10 |
| AL13N | speaking of t'errist | 20:10 |
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| AL13N | that man did a lot in his life time | 20:11 |
| AL13N | questionable, sure | 20:11 |
| AL13N | but somehow admirable, how many times he escaped prisons | 20:11 |
| roboro | wow... AL13N... I never heard of him... sounds really interesting | 20:11 |
| pvanhoof | I guess given that Descartes was so famous in his time, he couldn't risk not making a religious work. So he did just that, and still got his actual ideas written down and published. | 20:11 |
| roboro | and those ideas shaped the rest of western philosophy forever after... | 20:12 |
| * pvanhoof bookmarked that wikipedia about Fritz | 20:12 | |
| roboro | until twits like derida came along | 20:12 |
| pvanhoof | roboro, i think spinoza had more influence | 20:12 |
| roboro | Fritz reminds you that history is more complicated than ppl make out | 20:13 |
| pvanhoof | Perhaps not in a visible way. | 20:13 |
| roboro | seriously? | 20:13 |
| pvanhoof | I think so. | 20:13 |
| AL13N | pvanhoof: heh, you should, the FBI named it the greatest uncovered espionage ring | 20:13 |
| roboro | mmmm maybe I need to revisit spinoza | 20:13 |
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| HeraldFoxMeganC | Hi. I did a game (I am programmer), and I want to see if you like it :3 http://adf.ly/cWCUd | 20:13 |
| HeraldFoxMeganC | Sorry by the adf.ly, but I need a bit donation for a web server for the server xd | 20:14 |
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| pvanhoof | Some of his ideas around 1670ties where really revolutionary then, and very very much the case now | 20:14 |
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| pvanhoof | Like how he copied strategies of Machiavelli over to a strategy for yourself for ensuring your moral compass is pointing north | 20:15 |
| eyea | jOLLA JOLla joh | 20:15 |
| roboro | mmmm quick look at his wiki entry... Hegel was a big fan: "You are either a Spinozist or not a philosopher at all." | 20:15 |
| pvanhoof | yes :) | 20:15 |
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| eyea | hi all | 20:15 |
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| roboro | eyea: we are giving Jolla some moral direction | 20:16 |
| pvanhoof | :) yes we are | 20:16 |
| eyea | live life live jolla | 20:16 |
| pvanhoof | But that's not a bad thing | 20:16 |
| pvanhoof | Although it might be | 20:16 |
| roboro | lol | 20:16 |
| roboro | mmm definitely think I need to read this dude :D | 20:17 |
| eyea | Does any one knoe of a repo for jolla | 20:17 |
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| pvanhoof | But in Spinoza's philosophy you'd say that you either had sad feelings or glorious feelings about a thing | 20:17 |
| pvanhoof | So when Jolla creates glorious feelings, then this is morally what he would call 'good' | 20:18 |
| pvanhoof | When Jolla creates sad feelings, it's in his moral view what he would translate to 'bad' | 20:18 |
| roboro | sounds pretty sensible :) | 20:18 |
| eyea | Does anyone know of any Jolla Sailfish repos? | 20:18 |
| faenil | gotta love kimmoli https://twitter.com/LiKimmo/status/426447649605033984 | 20:18 |
| AL13N | anyone have a vlc build? | 20:18 |
| roboro | eyea: what are you on about? what repo do you want? | 20:19 |
| pvanhoof | So everything creates states-of-being, and people are agents that carry these states. You can have glorious, empowered feelings and you can have depressed, distressed, sad feelings | 20:19 |
| eyea | for codecs | 20:20 |
| pvanhoof | We basically are those states, we exist because of the states and not we have those states because we exist | 20:20 |
| eyea | av | 20:20 |
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| roboro | eyea: check out openrepos.net | 20:20 |
| eyea | ok | 20:20 |
| AL13N | faenil: that's pretty good stuff | 20:20 |
| roboro | I think there was a codecs package there | 20:20 |
| eyea | thanks | 20:20 |
| faenil | AL13N, indeed | 20:20 |
| roboro | you should install warehouse if you want to use it | 20:20 |
| pvanhoof | Just like how the wings of a bird make that the bird can fly, the bird doesn't exist for wings to fly | 20:20 |
| AL13N | roboro: codecs is nice, but kinda need a player too | 20:20 |
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| roboro | pvanhoof: ooooh this is starting to sound like elements of heidegger | 20:21 |
| AL13N | NFS mounting into ~nemo/Videos/server/ will slow down tracker alot | 20:21 |
| eyea | what palyer are there? | 20:21 |
| eyea | players | 20:21 |
| eyea | media players | 20:21 |
| AL13N | i don't know anyone | 20:21 |
| pvanhoof | Anyway :). So we feel empowered thanks to Jolla's existence. Not the other way around | 20:21 |
| jubo2 | Dima^: you still selling that snow board or sold it already to someone else with 100€ | 20:21 |
| salami` | is there a separate channel for support/questions? | 20:21 |
| jubo2 | ..? | 20:21 |
| eyea | lol | 20:21 |
| pvanhoof | And when Mark Dillon figures that out, he'll be the best ceo and sales guy that exists :) | 20:21 |
| roboro | heh | 20:22 |
| AL13N | salami`: no, this is it :-) | 20:22 |
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| jubo2 | salami`: this is pretty much the support/questions channel | 20:22 |
| salami` | okay then :) | 20:22 |
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| roboro | we're supporting with philosophy | 20:22 |
| pvanhoof | It's the hardest way to make money, but also the best | 20:22 |
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| salami` | I just bought Jolla and when I go to the setting => about screen it says theres an update available, and when I pull the pulley menu down and try to update nothing happens | 20:22 |
| * roboro decides that we had best slow down on the phil lectures before we get booted from channel | 20:23 | |
| roboro | salami`: 1.0.2.5? | 20:23 |
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| pvanhoof | roboro, so yes: all 408 people here should read Spinoza. Although im sure most will think im crazy afterwards, some will be interested and that's good ;-) | 20:23 |
| AL13N | 1.0.2.5 is the latest and it has a bug that it sometimes tells you a new one is available, even though there isn't one | 20:23 |
| roboro | known bug... I think its discussed on together | 20:24 |
| AL13N | yes | 20:24 |
| AL13N | the funny thing about it, is that noone will actually get the new update when it's out | 20:24 |
| salami` | I'm on 1.0.0.5 | 20:24 |
| pvanhoof | roboro, And I should read heidegger | 20:24 |
| pvanhoof | ;-) | 20:24 |
| roboro | salami`: you should check out http://together.jolla.com/ | 20:25 |
| AL13N | salami`: don't install anything from store and update immediately | 20:25 |
| Acce | salami`: did you log onto your Jolla account? | 20:25 |
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| AL13N | salami`: need WLAN active and registered for store | 20:25 |
| roboro | pvanhoof: he's interesting but pretty obtuse... | 20:25 |
| salami` | yes I did log in and I installed few apps from yandex store | 20:25 |
| Acce | someone had problems downloading the update because they had not logged in | 20:25 |
| AL13N | then go to settings and device info, pull down to check update and then update | 20:25 |
| Acce | ok so it's something else | 20:25 |
| roboro | I do use lots of his ideas to explain things to people | 20:25 |
| pvanhoof | I'm first going to read Machiavelli, then Heidegger | 20:25 |
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| pvanhoof | I want to know about those political strategics | 20:26 |
| AL13N | salami`: possibly if you installed apps or did update from apps, you will not be able to upgrade to 1.0.2.5 and need factory reset, or so i heard | 20:26 |
| roboro | I read The Prince when I was at school... its pretty cool | 20:26 |
| roboro | was a long long time ago though :D | 20:26 |
| salami` | jolla store does not open either | 20:27 |
| pvanhoof | *mentally preparing myself for something like Sun tzu* | 20:27 |
| salami` | but anyway I'll check together | 20:27 |
| salami` | thanks anyway | 20:27 |
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| roboro | pvanhoof: I enjoy reading eastern philosophy... it is so tremendously different to the stuff that came out of the west... and yet there are lots of parallels | 20:28 |
| pvanhoof | nod. I only read Sun Tzu because it's one of those titles that you have to read (a hype). | 20:29 |
| pvanhoof | But before Machiavelli I wanted to protect my mind with Spinoza :) | 20:30 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | salami`: did you allow developer updates? | 20:30 |
| pvanhoof | So now my next book will be one written or about Machiavelli | 20:30 |
| salami` | HarhaanJohtaja: nope | 20:31 |
| roboro | recently read Thomas Metzinger... current philosopher on consciousness... he had some pretty interesting stuff... but very focussed on what consciousness is... | 20:31 |
| pvanhoof | nod. Might be important in future (AI, etc) | 20:31 |
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| roboro | pvanhoof: he talks about the myth of self... etc interesting... if somewhat nihilistic | 20:32 |
| pvanhoof | I think philosophic questions about genetics, the human after human .. will be important | 20:32 |
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| pvanhoof | Creating a new homosapiense | 20:33 |
| roboro | what about the human after jolla :P | 20:33 |
| roboro | homojolla | 20:33 |
| roboro | sorry... have to keep the changods happy :D | 20:33 |
| pvanhoof | He hates certain new ui paradigms that just don't make sense in jolla's ui :) | 20:34 |
| Acce | Homojolla Sapiens has mastered the UI of Jolla.. It's evolution | 20:34 |
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| roboro | heh | 20:34 |
| pvanhoof | That might be like how certain architects from Greece hated concrete when the Romans experimented with it.. | 20:35 |
| roboro | I have to go... need to eat something... may be back later to do a bit of work on a sailfish app | 20:35 |
| pvanhoof | cya | 20:35 |
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| roboro | nice chatting | 20:35 |
| pvanhoof | idd, see you | 20:35 |
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| roboro | totsiens... doei | 20:36 |
| jubo2 | NFC TX without user authorization == bad idea | 20:36 |
| pvanhoof | tot ziens :) | 20:36 |
| jubo2 | You are looking for a pocket-swiping menace if you can have NFC in TX mode without being on a whitelist of devices or the user turns the NFC on for 5 or more seconds with a touch gesture | 20:37 |
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| tehdely | i am waiting for slavoj zizek's review of jolla | 21:06 |
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| pvanhoof_ | tehdely, yeah, he'll probably say that jolla is the end times | 21:15 |
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| tehdely | actually it will be a 2-hour long meditation on the existential crisis posed by The Other Half | 21:18 |
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| Milo- | Uh oh.. the developer mode's password generator just generated a password that started with the letters "nsa" ._· | 21:28 |
| Milo- | should I be worried? | 21:28 |
| Milo- | :P | 21:28 |
| pvanhoof | tehdely, yeah | 21:29 |
| stephg | pwd | 21:30 |
| stephg | gah | 21:30 |
| pvanhoof | stephg, /home/nemo | 21:31 |
| * stephg looking forward to the day that the images are released with recovery information so that he can s/nemo/steph/g | 21:32 | |
| pvanhoof | I'm going to reply $HOME next time .. | 21:32 |
| stephg | heh | 21:32 |
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| krnlyng | does anybody know where i can find the GLES devel packages? | 23:03 |
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