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| Tumeez | http://i.imgur.com/aMasPDO.jpg | 03:02 |
|---|---|---|
| Tumeez | How I can take logs? | 03:02 |
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| pahartik | Tumeez: "journalctl --help" | 04:21 |
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| stephg | morning everyone | 07:01 |
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| pawky|3 | stephg: morning | 07:17 |
| rigo | pawky|3: have you seen my link to blackphone? | 07:19 |
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| pawky|3 | rigo: yes, and I wrote to back to you in here yesterday.. :-) | 07:22 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: with lots of comments | 07:22 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: pawky pawky|3 is the same person... ;-) | 07:23 |
| stephg | no I'm pawky! | 07:23 |
| stephg | ;) | 07:23 |
| pawky|3 | stephg: in your dreams buddy ;-) | 07:23 |
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| rigo | ahh, highlighting defunct on my side... | 07:25 |
| rigo | looks like we share the feeling. But my experience is that it is not a bad thing to let people try things (if you have a good contract) | 07:26 |
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| pawky|3 | rigo: the conclusion is, it's far better to make an ordinary phone secure, than go buying one that screams "I am going to do questionable things"... | 07:26 |
| rigo | looks like the geekphone hardware is rather limited, compared to the jolla | 07:26 |
| pawky|3 | If someone invents something secure, it will certainly draw peoples attention and they will do anything to hack it. | 07:27 |
| rigo | pawky|3: but the decisive thing for me was to get the right conclusion in your head :) | 07:27 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: check that youtube link I put int here yesterday for you | 07:27 |
| rigo | => jolla is a good platform for secure communications, Finland has enough trust and jolla too, so get a cooperation partner... :) | 07:27 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: I believe the Jolla platform is a far better one to build security upn, usin opensource stuff | 07:27 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: I second that :-) | 07:28 |
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| * rigo goes looking, but everytime I go youtube I have to unblock firewall things, enable flash and things ... :) | 07:28 | |
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| pawky|3 | rigo: Search for "protect and infect 303c jacob appelbaum " 1:02:42 h version | 07:35 |
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| pawky|3 | rigo: 1:02:43 it should be... | 07:36 |
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| rigo | pawky|3: I'm co-Chairing https://www.w3.org/2014/strint/ together with Stephen Farrell, IETF Security AD | 07:37 |
| eitzei | rigo, u should use youtube-dl to watch youtube videos. No need to enable flash;) | 07:37 |
| rigo | unfortunately, I haven't seen Appelbaum life, but many things were clear long ago, Snowden just confirmed them | 07:38 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: exactly... or, people saw a lot of things not necessarely related, and the snowden documents made the puzzle pieces fit.. | 07:39 |
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| rigo | eitzei: nice tool | 07:40 |
| rigo | if you're producer of a phone, you can create opportunistic encryption if you have communication between two jollas | 07:40 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: cool | 07:40 |
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| rigo | BTW, call for papers open until monday, 2 pager sufficient :) | 07:40 |
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| rigo | the challenge is not how to create a crypt-phone for the masses. The challenge for me is how to make them usable | 07:41 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: I am thinking about some open source raspberrypi thingy with some snort softy looking for odd packages at the firewall as a unified solution to people.... | 07:42 |
| rigo | BTW, jolla is also a great platform for web-apps via the QT framework. This way you can run mozilla apps in another sandbox :) | 07:42 |
| rigo | pawky|3: that sounds like snakeoil :) | 07:43 |
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| pawky|3 | rigo: because? | 07:43 |
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| pawky|3 | rigo: If people start listening upon whatever is actually going in and out of their network, it would certainly increase the awareness of things... | 07:44 |
| rigo | because it filters things and my experience is that those filters a/ slow everything b/ pave the way for other filters c/ are in current firewalls anyway d/ distract from securing the devices that are traveling around | 07:45 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: Well, security has it's price... speed | 07:45 |
| rigo | not if you improve things on the endpoint | 07:46 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: how do you mean firewalls distract? | 07:46 |
| rigo | the lesson for me is that we have already too many middle boxes | 07:46 |
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| pawky|3 | rigo: Well, if you have, you should certainly listen in to what it's doing... | 07:46 |
| rigo | and too many of those middle boxes are annoying or break the web | 07:47 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: therefore a raspberrypi with open soucre software coudl be a cheap solution... | 07:47 |
| tneo | Hello. I've migrated my Nokia contacts over using bluetooth and now in the documents directory on my jolla are all those vcf files stored, can I remove those or will I delete the contact from the jolla? | 07:47 |
| pawky|3 | tneo: after you have installed them you can remove them. Always good to backup though. | 07:48 |
| tneo | thanks pawky | 07:48 |
| pawky|3 | tneo: your welcome | 07:48 |
| Quu | my welcome? | 07:48 |
| pawky|3 | tneo: as .vcf's are tiny I would just keep them in some sub folder | 07:48 |
| pawky|3 | Quu: yes you are | 07:49 |
| rigo | pawky|3: if I do hacking forensics, I certainly do need such a filter (wireshark will do). But not each and everybody should do forensics. So pondering about how to better secure the phone (by using 3 random generators and at least one in software) is IMHO a much better use of time. If something is fishy from factory, the Appelbaums of this world will find it | 07:49 |
| rigo | on the other hand, who am I to influence preferences :) | 07:50 |
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| pawky|3 | rigo: I second that, but at least have something generic that at least will tell you if something odd is going on (not necessarily going to deep into it) might be a good waring for spywares, NSA etc.. | 07:50 |
| rigo | pawky|3: but if you're odd, like me, there is always something odd going on on my network =:-) | 07:52 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: Of course, you could also flash a Netgear router with DD-WRT or equivalent, and also install tools on that one if you want.. | 07:52 |
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| pawky|3 | rigo: true... but I am just talking about mass surveilance here, and how to counteract | 07:52 |
| rigo | the workshop will deal exactly with that. Surveillance is mostly done by middle boxes passively listening. You can't detect that with a filter | 07:53 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: most people can afford a raspberrypi, and most could put an image upn a SDcard. and an extra Ethernet dongle | 07:53 |
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| pawky|3 | rigo: true... | 07:53 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: but for those who got stuff installed upon their recently bought hardware, might be able to detect things.. | 07:54 |
| rigo | and imagine you could use your jolla to secure all communications, even if you use your computer | 07:54 |
| rigo | in Japan that's already reality | 07:54 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: and the use of botnets, etc | 07:54 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: Jolla is a good platform for it :-) | 07:54 |
| rigo | hm, make that raspberrypi in windows :) | 07:54 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: thats a no no... | 07:55 |
| rigo | http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2007-09-09/ | 07:55 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: for security reasons, Microsoft, and its softwares is a No No | 07:55 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: meeeting time.. | 07:56 |
| rigo | but but... You said that this is for people who got stuff installed upon their recently bought hardware | 07:56 |
| rigo | and that's normally windows :) Happy meeting time | 07:56 |
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| pawky|3 | rigo: Yes, thats windows, installed upon some Dell computer, already prepared hardware wise by the NSA... | 07:57 |
| pawky|3 | rigo: which you might..... track with some snort software.. | 07:57 |
| suosaaski | It's not like Linux is not affected by NSA surveillance. | 07:59 |
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| jake9xx | suosaaski: would you know if the CyanogenMod android has been modified by google or is it still full source delivery? | 08:13 |
| suosaaski | nope. | 08:13 |
| suosaaski | (I wouldn't, that is) | 08:13 |
| jake9xx | suosaaski: ok | 08:14 |
| suosaaski | By the way, speaking of other halfs here yesterday (I think)... I may have heard that the case I may have talked about may be out in not so distant future :) | 08:15 |
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| CoderCandy | is there a way to upload files with jolla browser? | 09:47 |
| Plnt | CoderCandy: currently not | 09:47 |
| CoderCandy | Aww =( | 09:47 |
| Plnt | CoderCandy: what you can do to workaround it is to install firefox for android and upload it via that | 09:47 |
| Plnt | CoderCandy: you can upvote my request :) .. https://together.jolla.com/question/1006/add-file-upload-functionality-to-web-browser/ | 09:47 |
| CoderCandy | I tried that, but firefox lost internet access | 09:47 |
| Plnt | ah | 09:48 |
| Plnt | well.. you can also use curl on the command line but i guess that's not what you wanna hear :) | 09:48 |
| Plnt | strange that firefox lost the connection. afaik there were some comments regarding this on together and some workarounds by restarting the alien dalvik service | 09:49 |
| CoderCandy | eh, I was gonna scp the file to my computer at home and use vnc to upload the file from my desktop... | 09:49 |
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| mornfall | CoderCandy: you could try webcat (don't know if that works though) | 10:23 |
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| Kiranos_ | is there an openstreetmap compatible gps software for jolla yet? | 10:25 |
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| Kiranos_ | would love to use downloaded maps | 10:26 |
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| CoderCandy | webchat? | 10:26 |
| CoderCandy | You mean for IRC? | 10:26 |
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| Kiranos_ | no for use with the gps | 10:26 |
| Kiranos_ | and to locate where you are | 10:26 |
| Pnuu | webcat, the browser | 10:26 |
| Kiranos_ | sorry | 10:26 |
| CoderCandy | ooh, /me misread | 10:27 |
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| CoderCandy | eh, I already solved it... somewhat | 10:28 |
| tbr | Kiranos_: maeps | 10:28 |
| roboro | yeah maeps works pretty well... | 10:29 |
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| mornfall | CoderCandy: webcat, the browser | 10:29 |
| roboro | is it possible to sms from command line on Jolla? | 10:30 |
| roboro | just wondering if I can do SMS messages over ssh from my puter :) | 10:30 |
| mornfall | roboro: most likely, yes :) | 10:30 |
| roboro | I hate tapping screen keyboards | 10:30 |
| roboro | mornfall: dbus? | 10:31 |
| mornfall | roboro: no idea how, I just find it very unlikely it'd be impossible | 10:31 |
| roboro | heh... true... although it would be nice to work out how.... | 10:31 |
| mornfall | telepathy probably takes care of that? | 10:31 |
| roboro | http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/spec/ | 10:32 |
| roboro | oooh goood | 10:32 |
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| Kiranos_ | tbr: roboro: thanks! it wors with directions aswell? | 10:32 |
| roboro | dbus interface | 10:32 |
| roboro | Kiranos_: I haven't tried anything with directions... but I don't believe its that advanced yet | 10:33 |
| Kiranos_ | cant find its homepage | 10:33 |
| Kiranos_ | google doesnt seem to index it very high | 10:33 |
| Kiranos_ | M.A.E.P.S. – Malaysia Agro Exposition Park Serdang | mycen.my maps | 10:33 |
| Kiranos_ | cant be right :P | 10:34 |
| roboro | heh... its in the jolla store... or warehouse | 10:34 |
| mornfall | Kiranos_: it's maep(-qt) | 10:34 |
| mornfall | without s | 10:34 |
| mornfall | and yes, both on openrepos and jolla | 10:34 |
| Kiranos_ | thanks! | 10:34 |
| roboro | mmm leave comments for feature requests... directions would be good... if its not there already | 10:35 |
| roboro | would also be nice to be able to feedback to openstreetmaps somehow | 10:36 |
| mornfall | roboro: maep is actually pretty old and crumbly | 10:36 |
| mornfall | roboro: and it's not a navigation software | 10:36 |
| mornfall | roboro: you probably want marble :-) | 10:36 |
| roboro | mmm just mapping based on location | 10:36 |
| mornfall | but I haven't seen a port | 10:36 |
| roboro | mmm... a lot of the stuff going into store at the moment is pretty basic... | 10:37 |
| roboro | devs still getting used to what they can code | 10:37 |
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| roboro | I'm tinkering with a TVHeadend interface... but I don't have a lot of coding time... full time job, you know ;) | 10:38 |
| tbr | Kiranos_: if you want something with routing, try the android OSMAND app, supposedly it can do routing | 10:38 |
| Yaniel | anyone around who got eduroam wlan working? | 10:38 |
| Kiranos_ | http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Marble/MeeGo | 10:39 |
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| Morpog_Jolla | harbour qa is restrictive about unstable dependencies roboro s | 10:39 |
| Yaniel | I get only "connect failed" in journalctl | 10:39 |
| Kiranos_ | seems pretty nice, mornfall: tjhanks for the point | 10:39 |
| Kiranos_ | I wonder if its in active development | 10:39 |
| roboro | Morpog_Jolla: I know... I tend to code in python... so that's a no-go for Harbour at the moment | 10:39 |
| Morpog_Jolla | and also no paid apps supported yet | 10:40 |
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| roboro | annoying that JSON isn't native in qt... I had to write a bit of JavaScript to format objects on the REST API exposed by tvheadend... | 10:41 |
| roboro | yeah... that's going to put off a fair number of devs for a while | 10:41 |
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| ^cvp | hello | 10:46 |
| roboro | hi | 10:46 |
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| ^cvp | get some one the 100€ Preorder Voucher? | 10:47 |
| joonahoi | roboro: the tools are already usable, if you want to develop using python | 10:48 |
| joonahoi | it's just that you can't push it to harbour yet | 10:48 |
| joonahoi | but I think they already have fixed versions for python & pyotherside etc, waiting for go-live | 10:49 |
| roboro | yeah... I've been reading up on it... | 10:49 |
| Yaniel | anone with experience with connman? | 10:49 |
| roboro | I haven't ever used python with qt before... so a bit of a learning curve ahead... but I fully intend to develop on this basis | 10:49 |
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| roboro | should be straightforward from what I've seen so far... | 10:50 |
| joonahoi | roboro: me too, now is the perfect time to do so. you'll get to know the environment and its tricks and also will be contributing towards getting python & pyotherside harbour ready by ironing out the bugs | 10:50 |
| joonahoi | it is | 10:50 |
| roboro | would be nice to see some example code for sailfish with python | 10:51 |
| joonahoi | there is, links from thp's page | 10:51 |
| joonahoi | 2sec | 10:51 |
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| joonahoi | http://thp.io/2011/pyotherside/ | 10:51 |
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| Kabouik | Hi guys. It seems that when you share a picture taken with the camera by email, and have several active Gmail accounts set in the Jolla, you cannot chose which one to use to send the picture. I think it used the last accound I configured. Is it reported in TJC already? | 10:51 |
| roboro | joonahoi: you rock | 10:52 |
| joonahoi | no, thp does, i'm just a link bot | 10:52 |
| Kabouik | Seems quite similar to the need for proper discrimination of account names in the account menu (only "Google" is displayed), and being able to chose which account to use for instant messaging too | 10:52 |
| joonahoi | ;) | 10:52 |
| Yaniel | nvm, wrong passphrase | 10:53 |
| Yaniel | -.- | 10:53 |
| roboro | damn... introduction in Finnish :D:D:D: | 10:53 |
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| vanadis | oh hai | 10:53 |
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| vanadis | Is there a way to import SMS from WP8 to Sailfish? | 10:54 |
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| joonahoi | roboro: check https://github.com/thp/pyotherside/tree/master/examples | 10:54 |
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| roboro | joonahoi: thanks... I'll start playing with this soonish... have a deadline for work though.. and then on vacation through much of Feb... but will try to steal some minutes here and there... | 10:56 |
| roboro | adding links to bookmarks | 10:56 |
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| VDVsx | Kabouik, in the email composer click in the 3 dots to expand, then select the account to send from the list | 10:56 |
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| Kabouik | Oh right, absolutely, my bad | 10:57 |
| Kabouik | Then, is there a TJC about the choice of account to use for instant messaging, and proper naming of accounts in the "Accounts" page? | 10:57 |
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| Kabouik | (Have to go to lunch with colleagues, I'll check here later if someone replied) | 11:00 |
| Kiranos_ | http://nienhueser.de/blog/?p=571 | 11:01 |
| Kiranos_ | anyone know who bernhard is? | 11:01 |
| Kiranos_ | about marble | 11:01 |
| Kiranos_ | and the active maintainer | 11:01 |
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| Yaniel | yay, eduroam & uni wlan working | 11:04 |
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| vanadis | Yaniel, great. Does it work out of the box? | 11:05 |
| Yaniel | no | 11:05 |
| Yaniel | I had to download the certificate bundle and manually write config files for connman for both | 11:05 |
| tachikoma | ich hab etz nerdbackpfen gelesen | 11:07 |
| tachikoma | oops, wrong window, sorry | 11:07 |
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| vanadis | Yaniel, could you please post a tutorial somewhere? | 11:19 |
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| Yaniel | it was essentially this: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1399365&postcount=2186 | 11:19 |
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| Yaniel | just remember to use user@domain for Identity | 11:19 |
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| Nicd- | hope we get a UI for that soon | 11:21 |
| Yaniel | yeah | 11:21 |
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| yanoo | hi, are you using Sailbox app? | 11:25 |
| Pnuu | I've tested it briefly | 11:25 |
| yanoo | Does downloading files works for you? | 11:26 |
| chem|st | vanadis: do not write the file while wlan is active, it killed the device more or less instantly when I did that by accident | 11:27 |
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| yanoo | ah, facepalm. I didn't notice that I actually have to click download twice to make it happen. Strange UX :) | 11:27 |
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| Yaniel | chem|st: didn't happen to me | 11:28 |
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| Yaniel | but I had wlan off most of the time during edits anyway | 11:28 |
| chem|st | Yaniel: put in a typo and you will see | 11:28 |
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| Yaniel | that might be | 11:28 |
| Pnuu | yanoo: yes, but it's complicated and I don't know where the files go :-D | 11:29 |
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| yanoo | ~/dropbox | 11:29 |
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| yanoo | click on file, download, go to transfers screen, click download at the bottom - transfers will begin | 11:30 |
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| gabriel9|work | my jolla is marked as shipped | 11:32 |
| gabriel9|work | o/ | 11:32 |
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| gabriel9|work | how long does it take to deliver now? | 11:32 |
| Yaniel | btw I kinda dislike having plaintext passphrases around... | 11:33 |
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| yanoo | gabriel9|work: for me, they send it at Friday and I got at Monday (Poland) | 11:35 |
| Erroroman | Hi there, got my jolla yesterday and i have strange problem - system sound and vibration appears frequently when phone is in use, aslo resets my ambience photo to deafult, any ideas? | 11:35 |
| Erroroman | latest update applied | 11:36 |
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| Nicd- | Erroroman: sounds like the nfc thinks your back cover was disconnected and reconnected | 11:37 |
| Nicd- | so it changes to that cover's ambience photo | 11:37 |
| Erroroman | Nicd-: i see, i'll try to disconnect and connect it again? should i turn off the phone? | 11:38 |
| Erroroman | btw, the phone is great :-) | 11:39 |
| Nicd- | I'd do the aluminum foil trick to shut down the nfc chip entirely | 11:39 |
| Nicd- | it will boost your battery life tremendously | 11:40 |
| Erroroman | what is this trick? | 11:40 |
| Pnuu | I'd prefer the software solution.. | 11:42 |
| Nicd- | Pnuu: that requires developer mode though | 11:42 |
| Pnuu | https://together.jolla.com/question/597/fix-power-consumption-other-half/ | 11:42 |
| Pnuu | Nicd-: and the foil-trick needs to be sure that not to short any of the pins | 11:43 |
| gabriel9|work | so it should get in three days | 11:43 |
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| Sidde | Nicd-: is there people not running developer mode? | 11:45 |
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| Erroroman | okay, ill try to stop the NFC service | 11:45 |
| Nicd- | Sidde: I bet some. I wouldn't recommend using dev mode if people aren't familiar with the terminal | 11:46 |
| Nicd- | if they are, they'll find about it themselves | 11:46 |
| Pnuu | my collegue is, but she'll stop tohd for power saving | 11:46 |
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| Sidde | Nicd-: some things like your full name in the email is hard to do without a terminal | 11:46 |
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| Sidde | Nicd-: so one is a bit limited without it | 11:46 |
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| Erroroman | stopped the service ... i'll play a bit to see if that worked | 11:50 |
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| Pnuu | Erroroman: to make it persistent between boots, also systemctl mask tohd.service is needed | 11:51 |
| Nicd- | what's the difference between systemctl mask and systemctl disable btw? | 11:52 |
| Erroroman | Pnuu: got that, thanks :-) | 11:52 |
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| VDVsx | Kabouik, you can also change accounts names, under accounts, there's a display name there, that makes them more identifiable if you have many of the same type | 11:54 |
| Pnuu | Nicd-: with disable other processes (or services?) can still start the service | 11:54 |
| Nicd- | ah, so mask forbids from starting it as well | 11:55 |
| Erroroman | okay, i seems like that was the problem, thank you very much guys! | 11:55 |
| Erroroman | okay, seems like that was the problem, thank you very much guys! | 11:55 |
| Pnuu | Erroroman: note that before installing the next update, it might be safer to re-enable the service | 11:56 |
| Pnuu | although the previous update worked fine even with tohd stopped and masked | 11:56 |
| Erroroman | yeah, i'll remeber that | 11:56 |
| roboro | since the jolla crew should be aware of the fact that a fair number of people have done this... it would be good if they could check this during the update and re-enable as required | 11:57 |
| roboro | just in case people forget | 11:58 |
| benthorben | hi guys. the people over at #mer send me here to draw your attention to https://together.jolla.com/question/16259/credential-storage-security-issues/ | 11:59 |
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| roboro | thanks benthorben... just commented and upvoted | 12:02 |
| roboro | where is the file location? | 12:02 |
| roboro | I'd like to check it out myself | 12:03 |
| anacron | me too | 12:03 |
| Tofe | benthorben: I don't like per-app sandboxing. I can't say why exactly, sorry :) | 12:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Access to a secure file store per app isn't quite sandboxing. | 12:04 |
| benthorben | SpeedEvil: it's sort of reverse-sandboxing ^^ | 12:04 |
| roboro | lol | 12:05 |
| roboro | I like the description | 12:05 |
| flux | I know! we should port aegis for jolla! | 12:05 |
| roboro | I haven't seen this implemented too much... but its a nice way to deal with this issue across applications | 12:05 |
| SpeedEvil | I think aegis in fact was a damn good idea. Just configured very wrong. | 12:05 |
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| flux | speedevil, I actually agree with you | 12:06 |
| flux | that and there wasn't enough documentation on how to use/configure it | 12:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Add the ability to force local install of apps, and other root 'stores' - and great. | 12:06 |
| benthorben | Tofe: so what's your favourite philosophy for preventing malicious apps from bashing each other's heads in? | 12:06 |
| flux | I'm not convinced SELinux or AppArmor are any better than Aegis | 12:06 |
| flux | (actually I don't even know if they (at least AppArmor) even provide the same functionality) | 12:06 |
| flux | but it'd be nice to say that ok, apps that have the camera ability are able to interact with the camera functionality | 12:07 |
| flux | not sure how that would be implemented currently. | 12:07 |
| benthorben | roboro: I deliberately refrained from mentioning the exact file name. but I provided enough information for you to find it as well within 5 minutes ;) | 12:07 |
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| roboro | grep -rn 'MySecretPassw0rd' ./ | 12:10 |
| roboro | mmm binary file | 12:10 |
| roboro | still point taken | 12:10 |
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| roboro | mmmm my connection is flakey | 12:11 |
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| chem|st | would be nice to have some update delete all the unneeded files and folders some time | 12:17 |
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| benthorben | roboro: "binary file" -> let me introduce you to the posix command "file" to determine what kind of binary file ;) | 12:23 |
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| roboro | benthorben: fairy nuff! | 12:24 |
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| tango_ | oh I finally got my First One | 12:34 |
| tango_ | (poppy red TOH) | 12:34 |
| tango_ | how do i re-enable nfc so that I can actually use it? 8-D | 12:34 |
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| benthorben | tango_: systemctl start tohd.service as root | 12:37 |
| benthorben | you may or may not have to unmask the service again though | 12:37 |
| tango_ | hm "problem witht the store, this TOH is not working" | 12:39 |
| tango_ | duh | 12:39 |
| ln- | tango_: try detaching TOH and re-attaching | 12:40 |
| tango_ | ln-: doing just that, yes | 12:40 |
| ^cvp | get some on here the 100€ Pre-order Voucher code? | 12:40 |
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| Pnuu | what's that? | 12:42 |
| ^cvp | Pre-Booking Jolla phone (100€) and you get 100€ Code to buy something on the store | 12:42 |
| tango_ | hm now I get a very fast message | 12:42 |
| tango_ | too fast in fact | 12:42 |
| tango_ | I can't even read it | 12:43 |
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| Kiranos_ | [12:29:34] <Kiranos_> any info if marble touch will be ported to sailfishos (jolla) | 12:44 |
| Kiranos_ | [12:29:52] <Kiranos_> seems like the n900 is still in active development | 12:44 |
| Kiranos_ | [13:01:39] <shentey> Kiranos_: unlike the n900 version, marble touch is currently unmaintained | 12:44 |
| Kiranos_ | [13:02:49] <shentey> Kiranos_: it'd need some volunteer to fix remembering basic settings, in which case I'd call it maintanable again | 12:44 |
| Kiranos_ | someone up for it :) | 12:44 |
| Pnuu | ^cvp: haven't seen that before | 12:45 |
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| CoderCandy | Hey guys! | 12:52 |
| CoderCandy | Is there a jolla flipcase or similar yet? | 12:52 |
| CoderCandy | Because I kinda want one :P | 12:53 |
| roboro | CoderCandy: its a frequently requested feature :) | 12:53 |
| roboro | I think there is a post on together about it | 12:53 |
| pawky|3 | CoderCandy: 3dprinters.com ... | 12:53 |
| roboro | heh | 12:54 |
| pawky|3 | CoderCandy: and good luck.. | 12:54 |
| roboro | pawky|3: doing your 3d sell again?!!! | 12:54 |
| pawky|3 | roboro: B-D | 12:54 |
| CoderCandy | heh | 12:54 |
| pawky|3 | CoderCandy: any shape and form you want :-) | 12:55 |
| roboro | looking at my gf's flip cover for her S3... it should be fairly straightforward to adapt a supplied TOH to make one | 12:56 |
| roboro | just depends on what you're looking for | 12:56 |
| roboro | I want a TOH that has a lens cover, preferably with a switch in it... and of course, the flip cover | 12:57 |
| CoderCandy | and qwerty keyboard | 12:57 |
| CoderCandy | And while we're at it, why not throw in some extra batteries | 12:57 |
| CoderCandy | and maybe an FM transmitter | 12:57 |
| roboro | and OLED display... and FM transmitter.... | 12:57 |
| leinir | yay! my limited edition TOH just arrived :) | 12:57 |
| roboro | heh | 12:57 |
| CoderCandy | and IR hardware | 12:57 |
| roboro | mmmm TOH that's bigger than the phone itself | 12:58 |
| roboro | that i2c is gonna be a limitation sooner rather than later... | 13:00 |
| roboro | need a bigger bus to work across | 13:00 |
| chem|st | a modular toh | 13:01 |
| roboro | chem|st: I like it... slots that you can just plug things into | 13:01 |
| pawky|3 | leinir: whats the difference compared to mine bought att DNA? | 13:01 |
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| chem|st | roboro: as soon as I get hands on a spare one I will do a breakout-toh - final version will preferably dockable | 13:03 |
| CoderCandy | Btw, is it possible to connect to PEAP-mschapv2 networks with jolla? | 13:03 |
| * CoderCandy is too lazy to google... | 13:03 | |
| chem|st | CoderCandy: yes | 13:03 |
| roboro | chem|st: I will definitely be a customer for a breakout | 13:04 |
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| CoderCandy | oh, then I guess google is required... | 13:04 |
| chem|st | CoderCandy: https://together.jolla.com/question/315/wpa2-pskaesothers-wifi-support-needed-workaround/ | 13:04 |
| CoderCandy | LOL eduroam... the exact thing I wanna connect to :P | 13:05 |
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| pettter | CoderCandy: connman-confs ftw | 13:05 |
| CoderCandy | nice | 13:05 |
| CoderCandy | Also, how to install stuff for terminal? Which package manager are we using? | 13:06 |
| chem|st | CoderCandy: just copy it the exact way it is written there and ignore any custom entries you might need from your university | 13:06 |
| chem|st | CoderCandy: pkcon is there and you might want zypper | 13:06 |
| pawky|3 | can any one tell if there is a difference between the jolla from DNA and the limited edition? | 13:07 |
| tango_ | poppy red TOH with custom stuff | 13:07 |
| chem|st | pawky|3: there is no limited edition jolla | 13:07 |
| chem|st | pawky|3: it is only the poppy-red-the-first-one-toh | 13:07 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st: ok, so it was all about the T-shirt then? | 13:07 |
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| chem|st | pawky|3: and the toh | 13:08 |
| chem|st | and being the first | 13:08 |
| chem|st | well you got a t-shirt and toh for free | 13:08 |
| chem|st | and some stickers | 13:08 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st: do I get it right it has a red backplate? | 13:08 |
| chem|st | pawky|3: what? the ltd toh? | 13:09 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st: yes? | 13:09 |
| chem|st | it is some like dirty orange | 13:09 |
| chem|st | 'poppy red' | 13:09 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st: so... my white one is mainstream? :-( | 13:09 |
| chem|st | it is apart of the "the first one" slogan the same | 13:09 |
| chem|st | pawky|3: the white one is the "shipped with" toh | 13:10 |
| pawky|3 | :-( | 13:10 |
| chem|st | that is in all Jolla boxes | 13:10 |
| pawky|3 | :-( :-( | 13:10 |
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| chem|st | yes I read ltd edition jolla with ltd edition toh on the website but was turned down | 13:10 |
| pawky|3 | :-( | 13:11 |
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| chem|st | I hope they give us some love with the poppy red toh in the future | 13:12 |
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| chem|st | I want people bite their ass when they sold it on ebay | 13:12 |
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| pawky|3 | chem|st: I believe Jolla should keep one color for all people bying it when still in beta, a sign of them being faithfull good willing early adopters | 13:13 |
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| chem|st | Stskeeps: can you put that on your 6month from now roadmap? "I want people bite their ass when they sold it on ebay" | 13:14 |
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| pawky|3 | chem|st: also a quick excuse when people want to 'try it out'. you can say, well its the cyan beta model... | 13:15 |
| Stskeeps | what? | 13:15 |
| pawky|3 | Stskeeps: to whom? | 13:15 |
| chem|st | pawky|3: I'd like to have those toh boxes available for ltd. edition preorders only filled with ltd. toh with the first one written on it | 13:15 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st: :-) | 13:15 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: have people who sell their poppy-red toh on ebay bite their ass in a few months | 13:16 |
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| chem|st | https://together.jolla.com/question/16307/rainbow-toh-boxes-ltd-edition/ | 13:23 |
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| chem|st | **vote** | 13:23 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st: do you count DNA buyers as 'pre order' people? | 13:24 |
| chem|st | pawky|3: ltd. edition pre-order the one with the 100€ tag on it | 13:25 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st: :-( | 13:25 |
| chem|st | the day-one supporters | 13:25 |
| chem|st | did you preorder with dna or just buy it there? | 13:26 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st: Well, I supported the blodoy thing from day one, but they never let me be able to pay the !"#¤% €100 :-( or else I would have been one. | 13:26 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st: So, my only option was to order it from DNA, but then again... it seems that was actually a faster way to get it. | 13:27 |
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| pawky|3 | I would say, people bying the phone up to today and some time to come, are all supporters of this unit, and should be premered for it. The phone works, but it has some way to go still | 13:28 |
| chem|st | pawky|3: just added pre-orderers to the suggestion | 13:28 |
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| roboro | mmm that would be nice... but I accept that my order was a bit later than a pre-order | 13:29 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st: I preordered from Jolla, but when I did you could only pay using PayPal, when the credit card option came, there was no way to click to do the payment for an order already existing... :-( | 13:29 |
| roboro | these guys also need to make some money to make sure this whole thing takes off | 13:29 |
| chem|st | pawky|3: stupid you! you can pay any paypal order with creditcard without even logging in to paypal afaik | 13:30 |
| pawky|3 | roboro: Then they should have made me able to pay with my card... right? | 13:30 |
| roboro | heh | 13:30 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st: yes, but when wanting to do so, i couldn't return to the order being there and pay.... | 13:30 |
| chem|st | ? | 13:31 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st: let's say, the order site is..... a bit limited... | 13:31 |
| roboro | I'm okay with not being recognized for my early adoption... I'm just hoping that I will benefit by switching to a better environment than android/iOS | 13:31 |
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| chem|st | roboro: oyu should already benefit... | 13:31 |
| roboro | I do!!! | 13:31 |
| chem|st | you see :) | 13:31 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st: clicking paypal... then cancelling it... going back a while later, didn't make you be able to enter the paypal part again... the site only told you "awaiting payment" or similar.. | 13:32 |
| chem|st | if they port sailfish to nexus 7 I have a galaxy tab2 7" to sell... anyone? | 13:32 |
| roboro | also... I can start getting familiar with the SDK and a deployment on real hardware... by the time the rest of the world has a jolla... I should be able to develop some sweet apps | 13:32 |
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| chem|st | pawky|3: so what you messed up your order... I put it straight in not clicking back anywhere... | 13:33 |
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| chem|st | roboro: like? | 13:34 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st: so what?... well what, as in I couldn't support Jolla when I wanted to... and had to wait until december... that's what... | 13:34 |
| pawky|3 | :bn | 13:34 |
| pawky|3 | oops | 13:35 |
| roboro | chem|st: like what? what apps? good question... still trying to think of something that won't become too time-consuming to maintain | 13:35 |
| roboro | I'm torn between trying to make my own TOH... or staying away from hardware for now and just write code | 13:36 |
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| pawky|3 | roboro: I'll think I will by a 3d printer soon, the question is witch one... | 13:39 |
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| roboro | pawky|3: I know... I went through that list you sent and really struggled with it | 13:39 |
| roboro | I don't think I can really afford/justify it at the moment | 13:40 |
| pawky|3 | roboro: maybe thats the way to go, an ap where people can order and pre pay their cover, and then it will get 3d printed and sent back to them :-) | 13:40 |
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| roboro | if you get your printer... I'll work on that with you :D | 13:40 |
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| pawky|3 | gabriel9|work: :-) | 13:40 |
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| pawky|3 | roboro: :-) | 13:41 |
| roboro | seriously though... if you get a 3d printer... I would be keen to work on some ideas | 13:41 |
| pawky|3 | roboro: I'll let you know as soon as its on my desk :-) | 13:42 |
| roboro | awesome... if its all its cut out to be... I might consider getting one | 13:42 |
| pawky|3 | roboro: :-) | 13:43 |
| roboro | I really liked the idea of the Pirate 3D... just because it looks so cool... but its pre-order and I'd like to see some more review on it | 13:43 |
| roboro | the videos are pretty good | 13:43 |
| roboro | they've thought of a lot of things to make it friendly | 13:44 |
| pawky|3 | roboro: link? | 13:44 |
| roboro | mmm http://www.pirate3d.com/ | 13:44 |
| roboro | you might need to search youtube for some decent vids | 13:44 |
| roboro | they've got some demo stuff out | 13:44 |
| roboro | brb... afk for a bit | 13:45 |
| pawky|3 | roboro: looks cool that one | 13:45 |
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| supauli | pirate3d.com -> careers -> general : desc == fdsfd ;) | 13:47 |
| supauli | i mean "fdsfd" really | 13:47 |
| zutto | lol :P | 13:47 |
| pawky|3 | supauli: Its a very important position at their place! :-) | 13:48 |
| roboro | lol... very under construction | 13:48 |
| pawky|3 | First Doer Support and Fixer Dude | 13:48 |
| roboro | I think their kickstarter link has a lot more info | 13:49 |
| pawky|3 | fdsfd... | 13:49 |
| roboro | most important dude at the company | 13:49 |
| roboro | wearing of a patch is compulsory | 13:49 |
| pawky|3 | defenitely... | 13:49 |
| roboro | http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pirate3d/the-buccaneer-the-3d-printer-that-everyone-can-use | 13:50 |
| roboro | nearly $1.5m pledged | 13:50 |
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| pawky|3 | roboro: wow... | 13:50 |
| pawky|3 | Wapor ware? | 13:51 |
| roboro | mmm on youtube there are videos of them in action at their lab... I think it will make it to market | 13:51 |
| roboro | with that much money pledged... it would be mad not to | 13:51 |
| pawky|3 | roboro: questionable wether they will be able to handle the volume, and support.. | 13:52 |
| roboro | mmm true | 13:52 |
| roboro | but they could probably get backing for it pretty easily with that demand | 13:53 |
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| pawky|3 | roboro: It will take them atleast a month just to send the item to the first 3520 people | 13:54 |
| roboro | indeed... which is what put me off buying :) | 13:55 |
| roboro | I couldn't even find a fixed release date... | 13:55 |
| pawky|3 | roboro: its stated June, on their site | 13:55 |
| roboro | ah | 13:55 |
| roboro | so probably December then :P | 13:56 |
| pawky|3 | roboro: I doubt, they could do it as fast as Jolla... | 13:56 |
| pawky|3 | 3 weeks, from order | 13:56 |
| pawky|3 | (release date) | 13:56 |
| roboro | would be awesome | 13:56 |
| roboro | its a really nice design... prettiest low-end and cheap 3d printer I've seen on the market | 13:57 |
| pawky|3 | roboro: maybe going for one thats been around for a while might be a better idea in the end.. | 13:57 |
| roboro | not sure how well it prints though | 13:57 |
| roboro | true... I considered a reprap | 13:57 |
| pawky|3 | roboro: :-) | 13:58 |
| roboro | I keep considering it :D:D:D:D | 13:58 |
| pawky|3 | roboro: :-) | 13:58 |
| roboro | consideration is everything | 13:58 |
| roboro | I am a very considerate person | 13:58 |
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| mornfall | roboro: peachy printer! | 14:16 |
| roboro | mornfall: yeah... just wish it was available already | 14:16 |
| roboro | I don't like parting with cash until something is really shipping | 14:17 |
| roboro | sorry Jolla, I had to wait until you came to market | 14:17 |
| mornfall | stepper motors suck | 14:19 |
| roboro | see this tech is still evolving... I'm still not sure what to look for if I buy a printer | 14:19 |
| roboro | too many variables | 14:20 |
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| mornfall | possibly also look for something with bigger print plane than 15x10cm | 14:20 |
| roboro | yeah... I did notice that | 14:20 |
| pawky|3 | roboro: speed, resolution.... | 14:20 |
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| pawky|3 | roboro: build dimensions | 14:21 |
| roboro | pawky|3: someone else who has one and is raving about it... and doesn't have any reason to rave other than it just works well | 14:21 |
| mornfall | well, speed is probably not a strong point of peachy | 14:22 |
| * roboro waits for pawky|3 to buy a printer... :D | 14:22 | |
| pawky|3 | pawky|3: will look at it at the end of the month :-) | 14:23 |
| mornfall | I'll buy a peachy, eventually. :-) Unless something substantially better comes around in the meantime... | 14:23 |
| pawky|3 | roboro: In the end, it doesn't matter who ownd it, as long as one can print.. | 14:23 |
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| pawky|3 | roboro: What vill be rather an upphill battle is to figure out a 3d software's workings | 14:24 |
| roboro | yeah... every year I open up some or other CAD software and fiddle for a few hours and then give up :D:D:D | 14:25 |
| supauli | roboro: just write python that does the proper objects ;) | 14:25 |
| mornfall | being able to print blueprints off the shelf is good enough for a start :-) | 14:25 |
| pawky|3 | roboro: right | 14:26 |
| pawky|3 | supauli: yeah, sure... like FreeCAD that hangs when you least wants to.. all written in python... | 14:26 |
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| chem|st | how do I restart dalvik? | 14:27 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st: reboot phone? | 14:27 |
| sejo | chem|st: devel-su systemctl restart aliendalvik.service | 14:27 |
| chem|st | pawky|3: I want to restart a service not reboot the phone... | 14:28 |
| pawky|3 | sejo: :-) | 14:28 |
| chem|st | sejo: ty | 14:28 |
| sejo | chem|st: and that without even ever owning a jolla ;p | 14:28 |
| sejo | https://together.jolla.com/question/14881/how-to-restart-just-the-android-vm/ | 14:28 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st: but it is a way to restart it, isnt it? ;-) | 14:28 |
| mornfall | in my experience it doesn't reboot the dalvik quite completely | 14:28 |
| mornfall | when apps start crashing, it sometimes takes a full jolla reboot to fix it | 14:29 |
| pawky|3 | mornfall: I'll rest my case :-D | 14:29 |
| chem|st | pawky|3: you sound like a windows user | 14:30 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st: you wish... | 14:30 |
| chem|st | mornfall: the apps crash with 6 covers on home-screen but not with 2... for some reason, but what I have now is no internet for android apps | 14:30 |
| mornfall | chem|st: interesting observation... you might be right actually ;-) | 14:31 |
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| chem|st | mornfall: no idea why | 14:31 |
| chem|st | but still no internet for android... any idea | 14:31 |
| chem|st | ? | 14:31 |
| mornfall | nah, I have 6 covers and dalvik works | 14:31 |
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| mornfall | must be something else involved | 14:32 |
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| chem|st | mornfall: after I got it to not close the apps instantly it works for me too | 14:35 |
| chem|st | for a while | 14:35 |
| slate | Any idea why I lost GPS-reading on android side suddenly. Worked fine until 2 weeks ago it stopped. Works on sailfish-apps though. | 14:42 |
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| supauli | pawky|3: uh, no i didnt mean that roboro should write python 3D gui to make objects, he should write code that writes .obj files directly. | 14:59 |
| roboro | supauli: another learning curve ahead :) | 14:59 |
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| * roboro discovers vpython | 15:02 | |
| pawky|3 | supauli: yes, and he should write it in perl... :-) | 15:03 |
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| micko_ | i just had my first mystery shutdowns. i had checker irc few minutes back and put the phone back to the table. when i double tapped, nothing happened | 15:39 |
| micko_ | tried it several times mlre and nothing | 15:39 |
| Nicd- | seems this is a pretty widespread problem | 15:40 |
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| micko_ | even pressing the power button for a long time did nothing except swithed red led on | 15:40 |
| micko_ | took the battery out and phone started up normally | 15:40 |
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| mornfall | we have an irc client? :) | 15:44 |
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| Morpog_Mobile | Soon | 15:46 |
| mornfall | nice, I didn't like any of the android clients | 15:47 |
| Morpog_Mobile | Andchat is good | 15:48 |
| jpnurmi | mornfall: if you're comfortable building yourself, you can give it a try already ;) | 15:48 |
| mornfall | jpnurmi: I do have the SDK installed, and I managed to make a small app. | 15:48 |
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| mornfall | gimme a VCS url and I'll try it out :-) | 15:49 |
| jpnurmi | mornfall: we're about to announce a beta, so it's in quite ok shape: https://github.com/communi/communi-sailfish | 15:49 |
| jpnurmi | feedback would be very much appreciated :) | 15:50 |
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| mornfall | hmm, I need to install something into the build VM? got zncmanager.h: No such file or directory | 15:51 |
| jpnurmi | mornfall: run "git submodule update --init" in the project root | 15:51 |
| mornfall | ah, those git traps | 15:52 |
| jpnurmi | :p | 15:52 |
| mornfall | (but considering that I am on ZNC, I find the idea of a zncmanager.h quite promising ;-) | 15:53 |
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| mornfall | this is going to take a while :-) | 15:55 |
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| mornfall | hey, fancy... but no landscape? | 16:01 |
| mornfall | (typing this on jolla... :) | 16:01 |
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| jpnurmi | i'm expecting that to work out of the box once the silica components start supporting it | 16:03 |
| mornfall | I see, so the apps that do landscape specifically code for it? | 16:03 |
| jpnurmi | hmm, i never actually tried changing the value of Page::allowedOrientations | 16:04 |
| mornfall | you could try :-) | 16:06 |
| slate | android-apps do landscape | 16:06 |
| jpnurmi | i'm on it :) | 16:06 |
| mornfall | slate: some non-android do too | 16:07 |
| slate | okey | 16:07 |
| mornfall | webcat and tidings at least | 16:07 |
| slate | Ah true. | 16:07 |
| arnbak | is there a way to choose which calendar to add an event too, or is there something I'm not seeing ? | 16:09 |
| mornfall | arnbak: there's no upward sync yet, so no editing non-default calendars | 16:10 |
| arnbak | mornfall: not for caldav no, but at some point I was able to add events to activesync calendars | 16:10 |
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| mornfall | ah interesting, I didn't try activesync | 16:11 |
| arnbak | *exchange based work email/calendar | 16:11 |
| mornfall | if you managed to get multiple writeable calendars and you can't choose where to put new events, that sounds like a problem :) | 16:11 |
| arnbak | yes :-) | 16:12 |
| slate | I cant see any option to choose where to save.. I got activesyn on. | 16:12 |
| slate | sync* | 16:12 |
| arnbak | I have two devices, one one of them it chooses my activesync calendar as default :-) | 16:13 |
| arnbak | on the other its the "default" as in the device's own calendar. | 16:13 |
| mornfall | :D | 16:13 |
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| mornfall | jpnurmi: being able to not see join/part notices on the phone might be quite useful | 16:15 |
| slate | hmm phone app suddenly lost all contacts. call list is only numbers. Peoples-app still has the data. | 16:15 |
| slate | rebooot. | 16:15 |
| jpnurmi | mornfall: yes, we're planning to have a bunch of settings as soon as the settings app becomes available | 16:15 |
| mornfall | OK, makes sense. | 16:16 |
| slate | jpnurmi: building an irc-client? | 16:16 |
| jpnurmi | mornfall: i have a settings prototype, but it's not allowed by the current harbour rules :/ | 16:16 |
| arnbak | anyone experience connection loss/white noise in an actual call ? | 16:16 |
| mornfall | jpnurmi: (although at least hiding the hostname by default would make most notices one line) | 16:16 |
| roboro | jpnurmi: why not put the settings prototype on openrepos? | 16:17 |
| slate | reboot did not do it. numbers are gone. next step resync from activesync. | 16:17 |
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| jpnurmi | roboro: hmm, we could do that indeed | 16:18 |
| jpnurmi | mornfall: good point, thanks | 16:19 |
| slate | resync with mail-sync on and the contacts are back. | 16:20 |
| slate | awesome. | 16:21 |
| jpnurmi | slate: yep, we've been writing one with Venemo over the past weeks | 16:21 |
| slate | without mail-sync, nothing syncs. | 16:21 |
| slate | jpnurmi: nice, waiting forward to it. | 16:21 |
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| vesqu_ | hi | 17:47 |
| vesqu_ | anyone had idea my jolla shutdown and then its boot loop, try boot recovery mode, but cannot restore factory defaults, says mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p28 on /mnt failed: Invalid argument | 17:49 |
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| TSCHAKMac | I've had an N900, an N950, and an N9 here on T-Mobile, which run at 3.5G (HSPA)…now I have a Jolla phone that seems to have connected at GSM…is the Jolla missing some freq band support? is LTE also not possible on T-Mobile in the US? If not, what cell company should I jump for? | 17:58 |
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| PeperJohnny | LTE isn't working alltogether at the moment, but Jolla is working on it | 17:59 |
| PeperJohnny | Or rather it's not implemented yet | 17:59 |
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| TSCHAKMac | \ok | 17:59 |
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| CraigA | TSCHAKMac | 18:00 |
| CraigA | I don't think any US carrier will support LTE on the Jolla | 18:00 |
| CraigA | in fact, I think Bell Canada and Rogers Wireless are the only carriers in North America that'll support Jolla LTE | 18:02 |
| TSCHAKMac | sigh. | 18:02 |
| TSCHAKMac | fuck | 18:02 |
| TSCHAKMac | what about HSPA? | 18:02 |
| CraigA | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LTE_networks | 18:02 |
| TSCHAKMac | they're using a software radio | 18:02 |
| CraigA | look at DNA on that list | 18:02 |
| TSCHAKMac | that can be conifgured for ANY bands | 18:02 |
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| arnbak | TSCHAKMac: https://together.jolla.com/question/2764/is-jolla-dc-hsdpa-compatible/ | 18:03 |
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| TSCHAKMac | ok, well | 18:04 |
| TSCHAKMac | this is a step back | 18:04 |
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| TSCHAKMac | especially considering the hell it took to get the phone over here to the US in the first place | 18:05 |
| TSCHAKMac | but anyway. | 18:05 |
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| kor | TSCHAKMac: where does it say that | 18:09 |
| CraigA | TSCHAKMac, I agree that it would have been nice to support AWS, as the n900 and n9 did | 18:10 |
| CraigA | i just got plain lucky that my carrier has the 2600 band deployed | 18:10 |
| mornfall | wish the android qa queue was separate and native apps would take precedence | 18:10 |
| mornfall | the delay is frustrating when android apps appear in the store all the time... | 18:11 |
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| vanadis | Got my device :3 | 18:25 |
| faenil | vanadis, congrats! :) | 18:25 |
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| Iltsu | what was that *#*# -code for test application? | 18:28 |
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| Quu | 310 | 18:36 |
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| Iltsu | *#*#310 -what? | 18:50 |
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| Jettis | #*#* | 18:50 |
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| Raim | Iltsu: if you have developer mode, just run 'csd' from terminal | 18:53 |
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| Iltsu | ty | 18:58 |
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| Iltsu | fuuuuuu | 18:58 |
| Iltsu | seem like my vibrate doesn't work :d | 18:59 |
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| thessy | any news when tohd bug will be fixed? | 19:22 |
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| Quu | thessy: iirc next patch/update/whatever | 19:28 |
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| slate | One report was that its more complicated than thought. | 19:29 |
| thessy | ok | 19:29 |
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| tango_ | so thefirstone TOH only has the poppy red ambience? | 19:34 |
| tango_ | or am I supposed to find also additional stuff such as ringtones or whatever? | 19:34 |
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| Nicd- | tango_: it has a ringtone as well | 19:35 |
| Nicd- | which is unusable as a ringtone though :P | 19:35 |
| tango_ | Nicd-: wut? | 19:35 |
| Waitee | tango_: when you enable the ambiance it changes your ringtone to special one | 19:35 |
| Waitee | try | 19:35 |
| tango_ | how do I test the ringtone | 19:36 |
| ln- | call the phone | 19:36 |
| Waitee | exactly | 19:36 |
| tango_ | no sim card yet | 19:36 |
| Waitee | lol | 19:36 |
| Nicd- | tango_: it's just a sound file of people clapping, partying and marc talking about jolla being a movement and that sort of stuff | 19:37 |
| Nicd- | not really something I'd use as a ringtone :P | 19:37 |
| tango_ | it doesn't appear in the list of ringtones though? | 19:38 |
| vesqu_ | no | 19:38 |
| Waitee | no it doesnt | 19:38 |
| Waitee | because it's related to the special ambience | 19:38 |
| tango_ | I see | 19:38 |
| vesqu_ | jolla ringtone is select and fisrt one ambience in use then its ringing that | 19:38 |
| tango_ | so if I change ambience I lose it? | 19:39 |
| vesqu_ | its only useable in fisrt one ambience | 19:39 |
| tango_ | ok | 19:39 |
| Quu | unless someone rips it out and uploads :p | 19:40 |
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| tango_ | but then we'd lose our special privieges of being preorderers | 19:40 |
| tango_ | is there a barcode/qcode reader for jolla? | 19:40 |
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| slate | maybe an android one? | 19:41 |
| Nicd- | don't think there's a native one yet | 19:41 |
| ottulo | haven't seen a native one but I do hope we'll get one | 19:42 |
| ottulo | tango_: barcode reader for android works smoothly | 19:42 |
| ottulo | only lacking copy to clipboard (and even that wouldn't work system-wide, only within android apps) | 19:42 |
| slate | One of those apps I personally dont need native | 19:42 |
| ottulo | slate: it's a bother trying to get anything from it to some other app that's native | 19:43 |
| ottulo | say, the secret to gauth apps | 19:43 |
| slate | mm, true | 19:44 |
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| benthorben | hm. weird. some deep energy-saving mode seems to get triggered even though I'm ssh'd into my phone. I keep having to touch the screen in order to be able to work on the remote console | 20:12 |
| benthorben | any ideas how to fix that? | 20:12 |
| benthorben | (it's connected to my machine via usb) | 20:12 |
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| clau | benthorben, see this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92183 | 20:18 |
| clau | you can change the suspend policy via mcetool, but be sure you read the entire thread before you do anything. | 20:20 |
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| benthorben | clau: thanks, seems to have worked | 20:22 |
| clau | sure, np | 20:23 |
| clau | it will eat more battery though, but it's quite ok | 20:23 |
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| mornfall | is there any openvpn systemd integration to be found for jolla? | 20:25 |
| * clau off | 20:25 | |
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| * Quu on | 20:26 | |
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| benthorben | ok, it didn't work after all | 20:30 |
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| pdanek1 | ZogG_laptop? | 20:59 |
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| pdanek1 | Do you guys think that Jolla may actually release keyboard-half at MWC 2014? | 21:00 |
| pdanek1 | What else would they show? | 21:00 |
| Quu | angry birds TOH | 21:00 |
| Quu | native angry birds app. | 21:00 |
| kehnoo_ | I got so used to virtual keyboards on N9 that I rarely miss qwerty tbh | 21:00 |
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| pdanek1 | kehnoo_: still lot of Jolla owners would actually prefer HW-KBD. | 21:01 |
| ottulo | pdanek1: +1 | 21:01 |
| Jartza | I would prefer good hw-kbd on any platform | 21:02 |
| Jartza | I still use n900 quite often because of the kb | 21:02 |
| joonahoi | yay, got automatic image upload to google drive from camera working finally | 21:02 |
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| pdanek1 | yes, laptops included (ThinkPads ruled... though last 2 generations suck) | 21:02 |
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| pdanek1 | I used N900 MUCH MORE often. | 21:03 |
| pdanek1 | I'm realizing that Jolla mostly stays in my pocket. | 21:03 |
| pdanek1 | Only because of missing keyboard. | 21:03 |
| kehnoo_ | so what do I do to make my sd card show up again? | 21:03 |
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| mord | pdanek1: http://www.dansdata.com/images/clicky/ballboard1024.jpg + http://handheldsci.com/kb ? | 21:05 |
| Jartza | on bigger device the on-screen-kb is ok | 21:05 |
| Jartza | like ipad mini etc | 21:05 |
| pdanek1 | mord: amazing, but not portable :( -> nothing beats Psion: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Psion_5mx_17o06.jpg | 21:06 |
| pdanek1 | Jartza: not for everyone | 21:06 |
| pdanek1 | Jartza: it's still onscreen, no tactile feedback | 21:06 |
| Jartza | of course it depends how device is used | 21:07 |
| shanttu | i always go to my laptop if i need to post more than 10 words. phone or tablet. | 21:07 |
| kehnoo_ | get one of those bluetooth keyboards? :p | 21:07 |
| Jartza | and that depends of the people using those devices :) | 21:08 |
| pdanek1 | but there is no balance anymore :( I want keyboard-less devices, but I want balance | 21:09 |
| pdanek1 | there are those eras of something | 21:09 |
| joonahoi | i love tactile feedback on the kbd as well, but the biggest problem in on screen keyboards is the reserved display space, i agree with Jartza on that one. | 21:09 |
| pdanek1 | joonahoi: as for me goes, I don't care about space at all, all about typing | 21:09 |
| shanttu | last time i tried n900 someone messaged me on gtalk. damn i was happy to type back. | 21:10 |
| shanttu | i want the hwkb! | 21:10 |
| kehnoo_ | only time I need the tactic feedback during writing is when I'm writing while driving and that's something I really shouldn't do anyway | 21:10 |
| kehnoo_ | so in a way Jolla without hw qwerty makes me safer driver :p | 21:10 |
| pdanek1 | before it was era of keyboard smartphones and even people with keyboard-less Palm PDAs carried Bluetooth KB everywhere | 21:10 |
| pdanek1 | now we have era screen-only | 21:10 |
| joonahoi | the transition has been pretty smooth for me, considering that this is my first phone without hw qwerty kbd in about ten years | 21:12 |
| joonahoi | things could be better, but i get the stuff done | 21:12 |
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| pdanek1 | Btw, maybe I'm alone, but I'm also starting to miss Fremantle a bit, with Jolla. | 21:21 |
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| joonahoi | what's that? | 21:22 |
| Jartza | I actually use Jolla now only for development | 21:22 |
| Jartza | went back to nexus 4 as a daily-use phone | 21:22 |
| pdanek1 | joonahoi: Maemo 5 -> Nokia N900 | 21:23 |
| joonahoi | pdanek1: ah, ok | 21:23 |
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| pdanek1 | N900 was just superior time-less device | 21:24 |
| rigo | shanttu, we should create a pressure group for a hardware keyborad in the other half... | 21:25 |
| pdanek1 | And N900 was made by moles! While Jolla is made by Chinese. :D | 21:25 |
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| Jartza | N900 just had shitty usb-plug | 21:30 |
| Jartza | luckily I got new one soldered to place | 21:30 |
| Jartza | and I still have one N900 as a sparepart-device :) | 21:30 |
| slate | no pads ripped then | 21:30 |
| slate | :) | 21:31 |
| Jartza | fortunately no :) | 21:31 |
| slate | saw a lot of pad-failures back in the day | 21:31 |
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| slate | got swapped to n8 | 21:31 |
| slate | happy users | 21:31 |
| slate | .. | 21:31 |
| TSCHAKMac | anyone found a good android GPS that I can grab, that has US maps, that works on Jolla? Sygic complains about lack of google play (not ready to hack my device to make google play work), and Navfree doesn't have maps for the US. | 21:32 |
| slate | no idea, my gps wont work anymore on android-side | 21:33 |
| Jartza | gps seems to work, compass doesn't | 21:33 |
| Jartza | and speed is not reported? | 21:33 |
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| nickg__ | hey all, even though I now have tinfoil taped to the inside of my otherhalf, I have a problem where unless I have charged my phone very recently, my Jolla phone turns itself off before getting to the unlock screen | 21:34 |
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| nickg__ | when I plug it it says it is 98% charged | 21:34 |
| Quu | TSCHAKMac: iirc you need to transfer map files from old install (or pirate them) | 21:35 |
| Quu | then it should work | 21:35 |
| Quu | oh and also, you need chmod the folder where it saves the files | 21:35 |
| Nicd- | nickg__: might be the random shutdown problem some people have (like me) | 21:35 |
| Quu | otherwise it cant read/write configs | 21:35 |
| nickg__ | does anyone know how to fix it? | 21:35 |
| Nicd- | nickg__: not yet | 21:35 |
| nickg__ | Nicd-: what have you done about it? | 21:35 |
| joonahoi | nickg__: are you sure you haven't shorted the pins? | 21:35 |
| Nicd- | nickg__: nothing, nobody knows what causes it afaik | 21:36 |
| nickg__ | joonahoi!?! | 21:36 |
| joonahoi | with the tinfoil | 21:36 |
| nickg__ | I fucking hope not | 21:36 |
| joonahoi | or were you experiencing the problem prior to foiling it | 21:36 |
| nickg__ | I think I had the problem before | 21:37 |
| nickg__ | it was working fine the first week I had it | 21:37 |
| joonahoi | try removing the foil for a while | 21:37 |
| slate | check the battery connectors | 21:37 |
| nickg__ | how can I diagnose what's wrong? | 21:37 |
| joonahoi | trial and error mostly i guess | 21:37 |
| slate | those pins should be visible in the battery | 21:37 |
| slate | drop the device once or twice and they might get smacked inside | 21:38 |
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| slate | so the connection is too loose | 21:38 |
| nickg__ | slate:how should I check the connectors? - would they look different? | 21:38 |
| Quu | its lovely how people always give non-helping advice with random shutdowns :) | 21:38 |
| slate | Quu: worked with mobile phone repairs for years. | 21:38 |
| slate | I maybe have experienced a problem or two. | 21:38 |
| Quu | well, nothing helps with this one | 21:38 |
| slate | Bad stuff. | 21:39 |
| slate | :) | 21:39 |
| nickg__ | it is very depressing to have a broken phone like this | 21:39 |
| joonahoi | well, that doesn't seem to be very random | 21:39 |
| nickg__ | when the phone has been plugged in for a while it will work fine | 21:40 |
| Quu | joonahoi: only mutual thing is: the phone is ON before it shutdowns. | 21:40 |
| nickg__ | it's like the battery has a very short life but reports as being around 95% charged | 21:41 |
| Quu | you can check it with voltmeter. | 21:41 |
| Quu | its not that. | 21:41 |
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| nickg__ | do you think this wil gte fixed with the next update or is my hardware broken? | 21:42 |
| joonahoi | doesn't seem so random if it happens on every boot | 21:43 |
| nickg__ | should I send it back to Jolla or just wait? | 21:43 |
| Quu | it might randomly get fixed with next update | 21:43 |
| Quu | but i doubt it because they have no idea what causes it | 21:43 |
| nickg__ | awesome | 21:43 |
| Quu | not even new battery | 21:43 |
| slate | and the factory is off for 6 weeks now ? M) | 21:43 |
| nickg__ | Jolla ahould make an otherhald without the NFC thing | 21:44 |
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| Yaniel | aka "cover"? | 21:46 |
| nickg__ | Yaniel: yep - why have an NFC chip just to get some extra themes (aka ambiances) | 21:48 |
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| slate | maybe theres more to come | 21:48 |
| FireFly | Well, the NFC chip could contain other things as well | 21:48 |
| nickg__ | sure, but the white one I have has non | 21:49 |
| joonahoi | nickg__: https://together.jolla.com/question/7144/jolla-randomly-shuts-down/ | 21:49 |
| joonahoi | check that | 21:49 |
| AL13N | and the NFC tag is even open, unlocked and writable and has 48 free pages | 21:49 |
| FireFly | but really, why *not* have an NFC tag? | 21:49 |
| joonahoi | someone has reported success with reseting the phone to factory defaults and upgrading the software up again | 21:49 |
| FireFly | It's not as if it changes much | 21:49 |
| nickg__ | you need both sides, so tey should keep the part in the phone, but just have a cover which does nothing and does NOT BREAK THE PHONE | 21:50 |
| Quu | joonahoi: and comment says it didnt fix anything | 21:50 |
| AL13N | nickg__: the thing is, that even with current hardware, there's still alot of possibilitiees | 21:50 |
| nickg__ | or they should release an OS update which just disables NFC | 21:50 |
| joonahoi | Quu: which comment? | 21:50 |
| Yaniel | there is much more the nfc chip can do | 21:50 |
| Quu | joonahoi: any of them.. | 21:50 |
| nickg__ | they can fix it later | 21:50 |
| Yaniel | even with its limited antenna | 21:50 |
| joonahoi | :) | 21:50 |
| AL13N | nickg__: i don't get it, why are you saying that you must have TOH on? | 21:51 |
| AL13N | how does it break the phone? | 21:51 |
| nickg__ | people are having to tape tinfoil inside their phones | 21:51 |
| joonahoi | i'm using the software approach | 21:52 |
| joonahoi | just shutting down the toh daemon | 21:52 |
| AL13N | nickg__: i didn't | 21:52 |
| nickg__ | so voiding the warranty? | 21:52 |
| AL13N | i have great battery life | 21:52 |
| nickg__ | mine is 5 minutes | 21:52 |
| AL13N | and didn't shut down tohd either | 21:52 |
| nickg__ | with tinfoil | 21:52 |
| AL13N | i have 2 days or something | 21:52 |
| nickg__ | good for you | 21:53 |
| joonahoi | i have voided the warranty so many times over already | 21:53 |
| nickg__ | I waited 6 months and paid £300 for a brick | 21:53 |
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| AL13N | maybe it's the fiddling that shuts it off? | 21:53 |
| AL13N | nickg__: maybe it's an android app that shuts your phone down | 21:54 |
| AL13N | i don't have android on my phone | 21:54 |
| nickg__ | don't have any android apps installed | 21:54 |
| joonahoi | AL13N: the problem seems to be reported by several people | 21:54 |
| AL13N | i don't have the android capability installed | 21:54 |
| AL13N | joonahoi: i've heard about it too | 21:55 |
| AL13N | maybe it's a bad contact with battery or something? | 21:55 |
| AL13N | i donno | 21:55 |
| AL13N | or it could be software | 21:55 |
| nickg__ | but it works for 5 mins | 21:55 |
| FireFly | nickg__: uh, sounds like something else is wrong | 21:55 |
| AL13N | nickg__: do you see the battery level go down? | 21:55 |
| AL13N | maybe the tinfoil shortcircuits stuff? | 21:56 |
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| nickg__ | after I have the problem and plug it into a charger the battery usually says 98 to 96% | 21:56 |
| joonahoi | oh well, back to voiding the warranty ;) -> | 21:56 |
| FireFly | I did disable tohd because of the power issues, but I could still easily get a day | 21:56 |
| AL13N | perhaps you should do as Quu said and check with a voltmeter | 21:56 |
| FireFly | before that | 21:56 |
| nickg__ | I haven't got one | 21:56 |
| nickg__ | I don't want to void my warranty - I might need the warranty! | 21:57 |
| FireFly | Well, shrug | 21:57 |
| Quu | so, disabling something with software voids warranty but gluing something to phone doesnt? | 21:57 |
| AL13N | nickg__: go to one of those shops, where they sell them, and use the model there :-) | 21:57 |
| nickg__ | I will try removing the tinfoil | 21:57 |
| AL13N | (to test the voltmeter) | 21:57 |
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| FireFly | nickg__: if you really wanted, you could remove the NFC tag from the OH instead, but don't complain to me if you want it back at a later point | 21:58 |
| AL13N | possibly a few of the 6 pins at the back will show something | 21:58 |
| FireFly | hm | 21:58 |
| FireFly | that wouldn't fix the power issue though I guess | 21:58 |
| AL13N | why don't you just remove TOH and test like that? | 21:58 |
| FireFly | Btw, does enabling developer mode *explicitly* void all warranty? | 21:59 |
| nickg__ | doing that now... | 21:59 |
| AL13N | FireFly: isn't that just basic usage? | 21:59 |
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| FireFly | I feel a lot safer disabling it in software than risking to short anything, but maybe that's just me | 22:00 |
| nickg__ | think i need to charge it again - jesus christ | 22:00 |
| AL13N | FireFly: true | 22:00 |
| Pnuu | agreed | 22:01 |
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| AL13N | btw: does anyone have more info on connman configuration? | 22:03 |
| AL13N | i've noticed that http://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/connman/connman.git/tree/doc/config-format.txt is very different from what's used in the phone | 22:03 |
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| nickg__ | ok it booted | 22:05 |
| meShell | lool @ connman ... 10 minutes before I wrote a sentence if anybody knows what is dns config on phone ... found out with netstat and didn't ask as I saw it's connmand ^^ | 22:05 |
| nickg__ | told it to sleep after 10 minutes | 22:06 |
| nickg__ | I want to see how long it can last | 22:06 |
| nickg__ | by the way - I took the cover off and took the battery out and in again | 22:06 |
| nickg__ | cover is still off | 22:06 |
| Quu | and it makes no diffrence \o/ | 22:07 |
| Quu | hurraaay | 22:07 |
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| Quu | nickg__: i have been testing every possible thing in past 3 weeks, nothing helps. | 22:07 |
| Quu | every combination of settings/stuff. | 22:07 |
| Morpog_Mobile_ | AL13N: https://github.com/mer-packages/connman | 22:07 |
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| nickg__ | Quu: how many of us have this problem? | 22:09 |
| Quu | nickg__: no idea, on IRC about 10-15 | 22:09 |
| nickg__ | pretty disastrous | 22:10 |
| meShell | if anyone can tell me how to query connmand about current dns tell me :) | 22:10 |
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| nickg__ | I was expecting bugs, but not power problems | 22:10 |
| nickg__ | I like the OS, and I like that it's open source but I can't recommend this to anyone :( | 22:11 |
| nickg__ | does anyone know if there's a way I can stop it turning the display off? | 22:11 |
| Pnuu | it would be very hard to go back to inferior UI | 22:12 |
| FireFly | nickg__: you can increase the delay in settings | 22:12 |
| nickg__ | yeah, I've put it up to the max of 10 minutes | 22:13 |
| FireFly | though I think it has a hardcoded short delay when at the lockscreen | 22:13 |
| nickg__ | I have it next to me - I will just scroll up and down every couple of mins | 22:13 |
| FireFly | well, the only way to disable it completely requries dev mode to me | 22:13 |
| FireFly | er | 22:13 |
| Pnuu | IIRC there was a suggestion that the screen turn-off could be set to "never turn off" | 22:13 |
| FireFly | s/ to me/ | 22:13 |
| FireFly | / | 22:13 |
| FireFly | that should've been "that I know of" or something | 22:13 |
| Pnuu | but yeah, I guess that in _lock_ even that shouldn't apply | 22:14 |
| FireFly | I think you can do that with.. hm.. what's that nokia tool thing called again | 22:14 |
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| FireFly | mce-tools | 22:14 |
| nickg__ | which ambiances are on the white otherhalf? | 22:15 |
| FireFly | mcetool says "Autosuspend policy: enabled"; I guess you could disable it | 22:15 |
| Pnuu | there's snow white ambiEnce | 22:15 |
| nickg__ | not sure I eer saw that one | 22:16 |
| nickg__ | eer -> ever | 22:16 |
| meShell | @nickg__: this evening I got it to the state as you would like to have it but it was an accident, my display never locked and was on all the tim ^^ I think this happend somehow when I plugged in USB and selected Developermode / pulled out plugged in again ... | 22:16 |
| nickg__ | meShell: no worries, I just want this so I ca see how long it can last | 22:17 |
| nickg__ | I can't tell the difference between when the display if off and when the device has turned itself off | 22:17 |
| nickg__ | if->is | 22:18 |
| nickg__ | maybe my tinfoil isn't working | 22:20 |
| nickg__ | I have foil that was folded over and over again | 22:20 |
| Quu | did you apply it to your head? | 22:20 |
| nickg__ | each time I thought I'd fixed the problem in the morning only for the problem to come back in the evening | 22:21 |
| nickg__ | maybe the foil was getting pressed closer together in my pocket throughout the day | 22:21 |
| Quu | random shutdowns are caused by something unknown, you cant fix it with tinfoil. | 22:21 |
| nickg__ | Quu: heh :) | 22:21 |
| joonahoi | everything can be fixed with tinfoil | 22:21 |
| nickg__ | just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out to get you - turns out the NSA were listening to everything all along | 22:22 |
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| joonahoi | that can be fixed with tinfoil too | 22:23 |
| joonahoi | maybe we'll have to cut the transatlantic cables also | 22:23 |
| joonahoi | but wrapping USA in tinfoil should be enough | 22:23 |
| slate | full metal NSA-proof TOH | 22:23 |
| slate | no connection at all though | 22:23 |
| nickg__ | this is actually a big selling point for Jolla - you can't trust closed source, especially if it's from an American company where employees can be forced to subvert their code without telling anyone | 22:24 |
| SpeedEvil | You can't trust Jolla - from that perspective. | 22:24 |
| nickg__ | a lot of non-technical people have noticed this NSA thing | 22:24 |
| nickg__ | well, they are not American | 22:25 |
| SpeedEvil | They either do not have, or cannot reveal the source to their binary blobs. | 22:25 |
| SpeedEvil | For example the ones running on the modem. | 22:25 |
| nickg__ | and a lot of the software stack is open source - more than Apple or Google | 22:25 |
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| Pnuu | joonahoi: like thanks-giving turkey?-D | 22:25 |
| joonahoi | yeah, the turkeys deserve faraday cages also | 22:27 |
| nickg__ | this is good - my phone is still on after 20 mins | 22:27 |
| nickg__ | with no cover | 22:27 |
| nickg__ | sorry, "other half" | 22:27 |
| joonahoi | they usually get eaten afterwards though, but I guess that's what would happen to anyone trying to wrap USA into foil as well ;) | 22:27 |
| nickg__ | can anyone describe the "snow white ambience" I'm not sure I ever saw it | 22:29 |
| nickg__ | ? | 22:29 |
| nickg__ | what's the wallpaper image of? | 22:29 |
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| joonahoi | i never saw that either, but i have a guess... | 22:29 |
| ln- | nickg__: vertical blueish bars of different shades | 22:29 |
| joonahoi | aaaand i was wrong | 22:30 |
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| nickg__ | ln-: I don't remember that | 22:31 |
| AL13N | maybe it's one of both from an LE TOH | 22:32 |
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| AL13N | maybe it's one of those 9 colors you could choose during initial wizard? | 22:32 |
| nickg__ | I never got the orange other-half - just a bit of paper in the box saying I would get sent one later | 22:32 |
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| AL13N | nickg__: still haven't gotten it? | 22:33 |
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| nickg__ | AL13N: haven't got what? | 22:34 |
| AL13N | the LE TOH? | 22:34 |
| nickg__ | the ambience? | 22:34 |
| nickg__ | nope | 22:34 |
| AL13N | i assume you emailed care@ about this? | 22:34 |
| meShell | Received my Red Puppy right today, still not unboxed ^^ | 22:35 |
| AL13N | oh | 22:35 |
| AL13N | that seems like good news | 22:35 |
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| nickg__ | yeah, emailed care@ just over a week ago | 22:35 |
| nickg__ | no reply | 22:35 |
| nickg__ | apart from the automatic one | 22:36 |
| AL13N | yeah, i think you'll need quite some time | 22:36 |
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| nickg__ | I imagine they have a very small support team | 22:36 |
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| AL13N | i've seen the jobs section wanting 2 care people | 22:36 |
| AL13N | anyway, i'm going to sleep | 22:37 |
| meShell | maybe they didn't expect that so many peaoply ask questions and use the phone? | 22:37 |
| AL13N | it's difficult to estimate such things if you're having a first product imho | 22:38 |
| AL13N | night all | 22:38 |
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| ballock | 'night AL13N | 22:38 |
| nickg__ | night AL13N - thanks fo your input | 22:39 |
| ballock | now, anyone else complaining about worse gsm range than on plain old Nokia pre-symbians? | 22:40 |
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| pdanek | nickg__: about trusting American company -> there are plenty Android ROMs based on AOSP only + you can use F-Droid store with them, I believe it's same safety as with Sailfish. | 22:40 |
| nickg__ | I think I will now try putting the cover with tinfoil back on - battery is now at 90% | 22:40 |
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| Pnuu | nickg__: well, yeah, if the whole crew is around 70 plp, the support staff might not be too numerous | 22:41 |
| Pnuu | ppl | 22:41 |
| nickg__ | ok, after putting cover on, display only stays on for 2 seconds | 22:42 |
| nickg__ | double tapping turns display on | 22:42 |
| nickg__ | the off again | 22:42 |
| nickg__ | actually 4 seconds | 22:42 |
| nickg__ | taken cover off again | 22:43 |
| nickg__ | display goes off after 4 seconds again | 22:43 |
| nickg__ | battery out and power on... | 22:44 |
| nickg__ | phone works again | 22:45 |
| nickg__ | so definitely a problem with the other half | 22:45 |
| nickg__ | battery still at 90% | 22:45 |
| nickg__ | I need a cover without this NFC stuff | 22:47 |
| Turski | O_o | 22:47 |
| Pnuu | nickg__: three choices | 22:47 |
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| Pnuu | 1) disable tohd, 2) tinfoil, 3) remove TOH sticker | 22:48 |
| nickg__ | yep? | 22:48 |
| Turski | systemctl mask tohd.service && systemctl stop tohd.service | 22:48 |
| nickg__ | well tinfoil hasn't been working so far | 22:48 |
| Turski | i just changed my journald settings to save logs to disk, interesting to see if there's something interesting after sudden shutdown | 22:49 |
| pdanek | nickg__: or wait till next update, it will be fixed in next update | 22:50 |
| nickg__ | any idea when that update will be out | 22:50 |
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| pdanek | nickg__: after I disabled tohd service, battery life is amazing | 22:50 |
| Turski | has there been any information about sudden shutdown? | 22:50 |
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| nickg__ | maybe I should switch back to my old N900, if I can get my micro-sim adaptor to work | 22:51 |
| pdanek | Turski: some people had it, so maybe devs know about it already | 22:51 |
| nickg__ | just while I wait for the update | 22:51 |
| Turski | pdanek: so answer is no | 22:51 |
| nickg__ | ok, I'm disabling that service | 22:51 |
| nickg__ | I need to turn eveloper mode on, right? | 22:52 |
| Turski | nickg__: yes | 22:52 |
| Pnuu | Turski: check together.jolla.com | 22:52 |
| nickg__ | "Enabling developer mode may void your warrenty" - gulp | 22:52 |
| pdanek | nickg__: after it's done, I believe you can disable developer mode again | 22:52 |
| Turski | pdanek: i'm just wondering if i can do something to help debugging that or just get a new device from DNA | 22:52 |
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| pdanek | Turski: no idea, Stskeeps may advise | 22:53 |
| Pnuu | nickg__: "may" == "don't brick it" | 22:53 |
| Jonni | nickg__: you can use mcetool to disable display off from commandline. | 22:53 |
| Turski | pdanek: yes, i'm waiting for his answer | 22:53 |
| pdanek | nickg__: yes, if you don't brick your phone, you won't lose warranty | 22:54 |
| Turski | pdanek: but getting a new device would be giving up... but if it had been found to be hardware fault then it would have been ok to get a new device ;) | 22:55 |
| nickg__ | ok, should I try "mask tohd.service && systemctl stop tohd.service" or something else? | 22:55 |
| winfriedd | better to do it the other way around | 22:55 |
| winfriedd | stop it first | 22:55 |
| nickg__ | ok | 22:56 |
| Turski | just doesn't look like hardware fault at all | 22:56 |
| Pnuu | nickg__: that's what I've used for 1,5 months or so | 22:56 |
| Turski | winfriedd: why? | 22:56 |
| nickg__ | cute terminal :) | 22:56 |
| nickg__ | access denied | 22:57 |
| winfriedd | it might not make a difference, but with mask you basically hide the systems service. | 22:57 |
| Turski | winfriedd: masking it first prevents theorethical possibility of starting it again before executing masking command | 22:57 |
| Pnuu | I don't know if it matters, I used stop&mask, iirc | 22:57 |
| Pnuu | Turski: valid point, that | 22:57 |
| Turski | winfriedd: at least i believe systemd can find running service file even it was masked | 22:58 |
| winfriedd | probably | 22:58 |
| petantik | Well, you should stop before mask, since if you mask it, then stop it's not looking at the right file | 22:58 |
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| winfriedd | I never tried, just seemed more logical to me | 22:58 |
| Turski | petantik: are you sure? | 22:58 |
| petantik | since masking just links it /dev/null | 22:58 |
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| Pnuu | and one thing to add, it _might_ be a good idea to re-enable tohd.service before upgrading | 22:58 |
| Turski | petantik: but does systemd save which file service was started from? | 22:59 |
| Turski | i would assume it does | 22:59 |
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| Pnuu | although the prev upgrade went fine, but that didn't touch the TOH-NFC stuff | 22:59 |
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| petantik | Turski: well, masking stops the service from starting, what makes you believe that it'll stop when you tell it to if it's already running? | 23:00 |
| Pnuu | and, now, I'm sleeping | 23:00 |
| Turski | because it wouldn't be able to restart/stop properly a service that has been overridden since start if it didn't know how it was started | 23:00 |
| pdanek | Pnuu: I believe they will count with it that 95% of people disabled the service, so even without enabling it again before update, should be fine | 23:00 |
| petantik | Turski: so how can it stop it? | 23:00 |
| Turski | systemd keeps track of services that are running... | 23:00 |
| nickg__ | okay, I stopped the service | 23:01 |
| petantik | Turski: but does it look at th service file to describe how/what should be done when servicing a stop apart from just killing pid? | 23:01 |
| Turski | petantik: and masking is just linking service to /dev/null | 23:01 |
| Turski | petantik: but possibly it understand to look service from /usr/lib/system if it was started from there | 23:01 |
| Pnuu | pdanek: I hope that's the case, but as a recommendation I would like to be on the safe side | 23:02 |
| nickg__ | should I mask it too? | 23:02 |
| petantik | Turski: so if you mask it, then try running a command, it looks for a service file, and it's linked to /dev/null | 23:02 |
| Turski | petantik: modifications are done to /etc/systemd/system | 23:02 |
| Turski | and /etc/systemd/system overrides /usr/lib/systemd/system' | 23:02 |
| petantik | That is true. | 23:02 |
| petantik | so the tohd that is masked, is masked in /etc? | 23:03 |
| Turski | and yes, mask is just symbolic link to /dev/null | 23:03 |
| tigeli | pöö | 23:03 |
| Turski | if tohd is masked, it's /etc/systemd/system/tohd.service --> /dev/null | 23:03 |
| Waitee | oh so thats what it does | 23:03 |
| petantik | Turski: so, if you do a stop on a service you just masked, it looks at /usr/lib/systemd? | 23:04 |
| Turski | petantik: that's the thing i'm not sure about, i would just assume so | 23:04 |
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| petantik | Turski: heh, maybe we should find out in #systemd | 23:05 |
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| Turski | petantik: or just try it out | 23:06 |
| Turski | petantik: but i would consider it a bug if it couldn't find proper way to stop running service | 23:06 |
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| winfriedd | bug or operator error is disputable .... | 23:08 |
| nickg__ | ok, stopped, masked and stopped again | 23:08 |
| nickg__ | going to put cover back on minus tinfoil | 23:08 |
| joonahoi | nickg__: i didn't mask it myself, masking only makes it unable to start again (for example on phone boot) | 23:09 |
| joonahoi | i haven't booted my phone since system update, but if i do, i'll just stop it again | 23:09 |
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| nickg__ | yeah, I understood that. I worry that if that service runs my phone becomes pretty much useless | 23:10 |
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| nickg__ | so far so good | 23:10 |
| nickg__ | display is still on | 23:10 |
| joonahoi | i don't think it's the service that has been causing the shutdowns | 23:10 |
| joonahoi | more likely the tinfoil ;) | 23:10 |
| nickg__ | heh | 23:11 |
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| nickg__ | will my problems have left something in a logfile? | 23:11 |
| joonahoi | keeping the service on just consumes more battery, i had around 30h uptime with normal phone use with the service on, getting well over 60 with the service off | 23:12 |
| joonahoi | no idea about that, but i doubt it | 23:12 |
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| nickg__ | well, i was having this problem a week ago and that was before I put the tinfoil in | 23:16 |
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| nickg__ | question: does it matter what kind of charger I use? I don't use the one that came with the phone as I live in the UK and we have different plugs | 23:18 |
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| petantik | i think, the only notable difference will be current output. that'll affect how fast you can charge the phone. | 23:21 |
| slate | might have problems with some cheap chinese chargers | 23:21 |
| petantik | unless you get cheap chargers that are not good in general. | 23:21 |
| petantik | but i reuse the charger i got with my tablet for my phone. | 23:22 |
| petantik | and that seems to work well enough | 23:22 |
| slate | I use a charger from N900. | 23:22 |
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| petantik | Turski: Your assumption seems correct. You can still stop the service after masking it. | 23:25 |
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| Turski | petantik: i'm testing that too currently :P | 23:30 |
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| meShell | Getting Info from connman: dbus-send --system --dest=net.connman --print-reply / net.connman.Manager.GetServices | 23:33 |
| petantik | Turski: i checked with a http service running on my server. | 23:35 |
| Turski | pawky|3: ah, i wrote a custom service to check that | 23:35 |
| Turski | petantik: ^ | 23:35 |
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| Turski | at least tried... | 23:37 |
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| petantik | Turski: nobody reads my site anyway, it was just the simpler path. | 23:42 |
| Turski | :) | 23:42 |
| Turski | but that was just the way i thought it should work | 23:43 |
| FireFly | I also use my N900 charger, works well thus far | 23:43 |
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| nickg__ | petantik:what's your site? | 23:47 |
| Turski | N9 charges is quite nice :) | 23:47 |
| Turski | already lost my jolla charger :P | 23:48 |
| Turski | (at school christmas party) | 23:48 |
| Turski | (also lost my boxers, but not more about that) | 23:49 |
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