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| TSCHAKMac | weird, I plug my Jolla phone up to my Mac, and I don't see a storage device | 01:48 |
|---|---|---|
| TSCHAKMac | does this only show up if there is an SD Card in the slot? | 01:48 |
| TSCHAKMac | if so, bummer, don't have one, just have the 16GB on the phone | 01:48 |
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| Yaniel | don't think there are mtp drivers on osx by default | 01:52 |
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| Yaniel | TSCHAKMac: the thing is, "connect to pc" uses the mtp protocol, which works by default on windows but apparently not much else | 02:04 |
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| alight | trying to get ssh via usb to work from my macbook | 02:12 |
| Yaniel | you need a 3rd party driver for that | 02:13 |
| special | you don't | 02:13 |
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| Yaniel | oh, since when? | 02:13 |
| alight | wot | 02:13 |
| special | if the device is in developer mode, it should appear as a network interface. Configure IP and netmask for 192.168.2.1 and 255.255.255.0 | 02:14 |
| special | phone should be at 192.168.2.15 | 02:14 |
| special | Yaniel: since always? :_) | 02:14 |
| Yaniel | last time I checked usbnet did not work by default on osx | 02:14 |
| Yaniel | as in did not exist | 02:14 |
| special | it's been months, but I was using it that way for a long time | 02:14 |
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| alight | you mean I need to configure the network settings on the mac? | 02:16 |
| alight | all this, just to transfer some audiobooks | 02:17 |
| Yaniel | that you need to do anyway | 02:17 |
| alight | life without an ssd card | 02:18 |
| Turski | network interface just can't work without ip... | 02:18 |
| Turski | it's cruel world | 02:18 |
| Yaniel | com.apple.Dont_Steal_Mac_OS_X | 02:18 |
| Yaniel | wat | 02:18 |
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| alight | or | 02:20 |
| alight | I can just throw the usb cable to hell and use the wifi | 02:20 |
| alight | btw, what does Maadajävri even mean | 02:21 |
| atlaz | Its a lake in FInland | 02:22 |
| alight | makes sense | 02:24 |
| TSCHAKMac | ok, why did Jolla decide to do _THAT_ ? | 02:25 |
| alight | thanks for the help, even though I took the easy way out (: | 02:25 |
| TSCHAKMac | seeing as, USB Mass Storage works... | 02:25 |
| TSCHAKMac | PRETTY MUCH EVERYWHERE. | 02:25 |
| TSCHAKMac | I can't plug this into my car's USB, for example, | 02:25 |
| TSCHAKMac | this phone is awesome, but damn, that's pretty bone headed | 02:25 |
| alight | why do you want to do that? | 02:26 |
| special | TSCHAKMac: it's more complicated than you'd expect | 02:26 |
| TSCHAKMac | special: ok, spill. | 02:26 |
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| atlaz | TSCHAKMac: Also, the phone is still in Beta | 02:26 |
| special | offering it as real mass storage requires a filesystem the OS understands | 02:26 |
| special | which means FAT | 02:26 |
| TSCHAKMac | I know. | 02:26 |
| special | which means all sorts of awful things. | 02:27 |
| TSCHAKMac | I know. | 02:27 |
| TSCHAKMac | but that's a fucking cop out. | 02:27 |
| * TSCHAKMac has done plenty of work in this area, I know.. but not dealing with it and side stepping it using a protocol almost nothing supports IS NOT THE ANSWER, EITHER. | 02:27 | |
| TSCHAKMac | it's _retarded_ | 02:27 |
| special | MTP was easy because MTP support already existed. | 02:28 |
| special | what else may happen in the future, I don't know. But there's an update every month and it's a known problem. | 02:28 |
| TSCHAKMac | I know. | 02:28 |
| * pahartik always has to mount "/home/user/MyDocs/" manually after boot, because I want it to be "ext2" | 02:28 | |
| special | then your tone is confusing to me | 02:28 |
| * pahartik always has to mount "/home/user/MyDocs/" manually after boot on "Nokia N900", because I want it to be "ext2" | 02:29 | |
| alight | apparently you already know everything, so what do you want to say? | 02:29 |
| TSCHAKMac | special: how can it be? You do realize that this counts as a big negative for reviewers, right? | 02:29 |
| TSCHAKMac | just one example | 02:30 |
| TSCHAKMac | not to mention a lot of confused users running Mac's. | 02:30 |
| TSCHAKMac | but whatever. | 02:30 |
| TSCHAKMac | either it will be fixed, or it won't. | 02:30 |
| special | we're not dumb, just busy ;) | 02:31 |
| covox | TSCHAKMac: your car has a USB but not an aux in? | 02:31 |
| atlaz | Ok guys. So a sitrep. Now. | 02:35 |
| atlaz | I need to find whoever said waking up at 4:15 AM was a good idea | 02:36 |
| atlaz | Then bring him to me. | 02:36 |
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| covox | also sure you're not mistaking that natural glazed-over expression for confusion | 02:38 |
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| Yaniel | atlaz: I need to find whoever thought doing homework even if it takes until 4:15 AM was a good idea | 02:40 |
| atlaz | I'll go to the airport to check if i find him there | 02:40 |
| Yaniel | good luck | 02:41 |
| * pahartik tries to figure out further details about "Sailfish Linux" | 02:41 | |
| special | pahartik: like? | 02:42 |
| pahartik | special: Since "aiccu", "avahi-daemon", "radvd" are not available, maybe I could someday build them instead of taking executables from "Debian packages" | 02:45 |
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| special | pahartik: yep. In the absolute easiest case, you can copy a package from the fedora (for example) target on build.opensuse.org and mer OBS will build it for sailfish. | 02:47 |
| Turski | atlaz: I decided to take a nap at 17:15 and set jolla to wake me at 18:00. I woke at 0:15 since jolla had shut down... | 02:47 |
| Turski | so i've been 4½ hours awake already :P | 02:48 |
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| Turski | i think i can't trust jolla alarms anymore | 02:49 |
| special | Turski: any idea why it shut down? | 02:49 |
| Turski | special: i'm having those sudden shutdown constantly | 02:49 |
| special | ok | 02:49 |
| Turski | special: maybe i should get a new device from DNA? | 02:50 |
| Turski | special: or maybe i should bring this device to jolla HQ so you can investigate it ;) | 02:50 |
| special | I don't know anything about that problem, other than that there's work ongoing to investigate it | 02:50 |
| special | chat with Stskeeps if you haven't already | 02:51 |
| Turski | k | 02:51 |
| Yaniel | the one time my jolla randomly shut down the alarm did ring the next morning as expected | 02:55 |
| * pahartik has reached 17 days of uptime on "Jolla Mobile", most important task being IPv6 routing between Bluetooth PAN and mobile network, with some occasional HTML browsing while on move | 02:55 | |
| Yaniel | so expected that I forgot to actually turn on the device until noon | 02:56 |
| Yaniel | (the battery had run out overnight) | 02:56 |
| pahartik | special: What do you do with "Jolla Mobile"? | 02:56 |
| Yaniel | what is this thing with "quoting" random "terms"? | 02:58 |
| special | pahartik: Development, mostly Qt and QML. I'm responsible for the messaging. | 02:58 |
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| pahartik | special: Does it go through "D-Bus"? | 02:59 |
| Yaniel | pahartik: I think he means the "messaging" that usually happens at a "Bus Stop" | 03:00 |
| special | SMS and IM happen via Telepathy. | 03:00 |
| pahartik | special: Very good | 03:01 |
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| Turski | Yaniel: alarm was still set as active when i started the device, so i assume it really didn't wake | 03:05 |
| Turski | or maybe it had sudden shutdown when trying to wake for alarm | 03:05 |
| Yaniel | hm, well the shutdown I got was totally normal so I guess that case does not really count | 03:06 |
| special | in normal cases it should wake itself up to ring alarms | 03:06 |
| special | all bets are off with the sudden shutdowns.. | 03:06 |
| Turski | special: yep | 03:06 |
| Yaniel | yep | 03:06 |
| Turski | or, if it had sudden shutdown at less than minute till the alarm | 03:07 |
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| Turski | if you shut the device at say 5:29 and you have set alarm at 5:30, it will not alarm | 03:07 |
| Turski | but if you shut it at 5:28, then it will wake :P | 03:07 |
| Turski | since it wakes up one minute before the alarm | 03:08 |
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| TSCHAKMac | does the phone support the 1900mhz 3G/HSPA band? | 03:32 |
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| stephg | morning all | 08:02 |
| sejo | morning | 08:02 |
| sejo | day 9 of the wait | 08:02 |
| sejo | :p | 08:02 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | sejo: soon | 08:02 |
| sejo | up to 4 weeks... | 08:04 |
| sejo | 's going to be a long wait :P | 08:04 |
| sejo | has anyone tested ingress on the jolla? | 08:04 |
| sejo | I can send an invite if you need one | 08:04 |
| AL13N_work | i got it pretty fast, i didn't expect 3 weeks | 08:06 |
| sejo | AL13N_work: aren't you in located in Belgium? | 08:07 |
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| AL13N_work | yes | 08:07 |
| AL13N_work | sejo: how did you know? | 08:07 |
| sejo | magic :p | 08:07 |
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| AL13N_work | i had expected 4 weeks, but it was less | 08:07 |
| sejo | no I found a post by you on the forum where you stated you were from belgium | 08:07 |
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| AL13N_work | heh, k | 08:09 |
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| narchie | coderus: reading your issuetracker | 08:18 |
| narchie | is it true whatsapp just recently changed sync mechanisms? | 08:18 |
| narchie | I'm getting 404 although a week ago everything was working perfectly | 08:18 |
| narchie | oops, wrong channel | 08:19 |
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| tachikoma | moin | 08:26 |
| tachikoma | is there info on debugging qml apps? | 08:26 |
| tachikoma | specifically for debugging when launching it on the jolla device using the sdk | 08:27 |
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| Pnuu | tachikoma: I guess the folks on #sailfishos would know better :-) | 08:47 |
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| Mirv | nice that lbt_ is handling all the LWN commenting so I don't have to :) good answers. | 08:53 |
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| tachikoma | Pnuu: thx | 09:05 |
| flux | is there a way to control the powersaving on jolla? it's powersaving fine, infact a bit too good, because if its screen is turned off for long enough, I cannot seem to connect it over wlan (if it's on wlan) or over 3g (over VPN) | 09:07 |
| AL13N_work | flux: donno, but someone discovered a way to keep a permanent wake_lock | 09:08 |
| flux | and so dies battery?-) | 09:08 |
| flux | I think it wouldn't need to be be always active, maybe once every 5 seconds would do.. | 09:08 |
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| mornfall | flux: that's strange, because interrupts (coming from wlan) should wake the thing up | 09:17 |
| mornfall | flux: any chance you actually lost connectivity? | 09:18 |
| mornfall | I seen the phone disconnecting on its own at least once. | 09:18 |
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| lpotter | the connection does get disconnected during sleep. known issue | 09:22 |
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| lbt_ | Mirv: :D .... but feel free, it does feel a bit like I'm advertising and that's not so good | 09:51 |
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| flux | mornfall, I'm at 3g | 10:07 |
| flux | (regardless, it is the same at home wlan) | 10:07 |
| flux | mornfall, does it try to reacquire connection when I open the lock screen? | 10:08 |
| flux | maybe I should add a network monitoring to the vpn to a) collect logs b) check if it affects battery consumption | 10:08 |
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| {cms} | my android spotify client stopped producing audio output on my jolla this morning. Any tips as to how I would best start debugging this? | 10:16 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | {cms}: first, tried the restart ? | 10:18 |
| flux | android di.fm client stopped playing for me as well, though I regarded it as a networking issue (inside dalvik) | 10:19 |
| flux | reboot solved it yes, but perhaps it's not the way to actually -solve- it :) | 10:19 |
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| osaton | i have had netflix play movies without audio many times. restarting the application usually works | 10:23 |
| ballock | {cms}: I saw some native spotify client, why not use that? | 10:24 |
| cvp | "CuteSpotify" | 10:27 |
| ballock | btw, there's an app that soft-reboots Jolla, but I'd more use an app the restarts the aliendalvik.service | 10:28 |
| {cms} | yup, that is also an optioin | 10:28 |
| {cms} | I did restart the phone a few times, no change | 10:28 |
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| {cms} | I was just interested in troubleshooting really, but not clear where to even start | 10:28 |
| {cms} | something stateful seems to have happened to that app | 10:28 |
| {cms} | cutespotify is installed and works well, but it doesn't scrobble to last.fm | 10:29 |
| ballock | my std stuff for android bugs is devel-su systemctl restart aliendalvik.service | 10:29 |
| {cms} | which is a feature i like | 10:29 |
| {cms} | ballock: ok, noted, I'll give that a go | 10:29 |
| flux | there should be a daemon that detects shaking of phone and issues systemctl restart aliendalvic.service! | 10:29 |
| {cms} | does the aliendalvik log anything ? | 10:29 |
| ballock | afaik this piece is closed-source, I don't really bother debugging this thing | 10:30 |
| ballock | (though I wouldn't mind it would work) | 10:30 |
| {cms} | well, the app thinks it's working fine, so something system level is failing to write audio perhaps | 10:31 |
| {cms} | are there kernel logs? | 10:31 |
| {cms} | I have had this phone precisely one day :-) | 10:31 |
| flux | {cms}, did you try native audio apps? | 10:31 |
| {cms} | yeah, native audio works fine | 10:31 |
| flux | soo, doesn't sound like there a problem producing sound in general, so an aliendalvik issue instead? | 10:32 |
| {cms} | yes | 10:32 |
| ballock | out of curiosity, did you try the volume buttons? I found it controls separate aspects depending on context | 10:32 |
| {cms} | and very stateful, so maybe a stale lock or something | 10:32 |
| {cms} | I tried the volume , it works, volume bar claims to be going up and down | 10:32 |
| {cms} | track scrubber ticks along happily, just silent | 10:32 |
| flux | you could get the list of clients from pulseaudio | 10:32 |
| {cms} | ah, it's pulseaudio is it | 10:32 |
| {cms} | that gives me something to dig into , thanks | 10:33 |
| ballock | I might have been told that there's some kernel patch for special treatment of aliendalvik sound | 10:34 |
| ballock | so it might or might not go through pulseaudio | 10:34 |
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| {cms} | righto. logfiles would be a starting point, are there any? /var/log/messages doesn't seem to be a thing | 10:35 |
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| flux | devel-su journalctl | 10:35 |
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| {cms} | aha | 10:35 |
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| flux | or, via systemctl status aliendalvik.service (for example) | 10:37 |
| {cms} | this is nu-world systemd logging stuff. I've not used that before. | 10:38 |
| {cms} | lots of things to learn | 10:38 |
| ballock | darn, where is 'less'? | 10:40 |
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| {cms} | this phone is like an AR game :-) | 10:40 |
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| Eztran | ballock: think it's in mer-tools. | 10:42 |
| mkpaa | does someone else have issues with Aptoide app store auto update? It "starts download", but doesn't really do anything. How to fix/debug? | 10:43 |
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| AL13N_work | ballock: i installed less | 11:09 |
| AL13N_work | more was on there, but it's less than optimal | 11:10 |
| ballock | I just found that my pkcon wasn't finding a thing as it was off network | 11:11 |
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| roboro | less is more | 11:11 |
| roboro | as the saying goes | 11:11 |
| roboro | :) | 11:11 |
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| sjtoik | subtle linux joke there. i like it | 11:13 |
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| PeterPark | the download numbers in jolla market .. are they realistic or fake? | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | it usually takes more effort to fake | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:18 |
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| PeterPark | I mean fake like hardcoded as on harbour page | 11:19 |
| PeterPark | they are quite low.. if you are looking into the jolla tools.. around 10000 downloads.. | 11:20 |
| suosaaski | well, 10000 would be like 20% of Jolla owners? | 11:22 |
| PeterPark | [suosaaski] really? 50000 Units sold? | 11:23 |
| PeterPark | 10000+ downloads of central tools as calendar/mail/android support sounds more like 20.000 units | 11:23 |
| PeterPark | may be even less | 11:24 |
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| suosaaski | not sure what those tools are (and if they are a required download to get basic functionality), but I do remember reading something like 50000 units somewhere, but not sure if that was sold or manufactured or what :) | 11:26 |
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| PeterPark | I just read the downloads in market app: Android support : 133444 ; mail: 11046; calendar: 10968 | 11:30 |
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| PeterPark | I think it is quite low, either most people are using a naked(?) phone without any apps, the download numbers are wrong or the 50000 units have a long way to go. each possibility points to a problem which should be addressed fast | 11:32 |
| Elleo | {cms}: I will be adding last.fm scrobbling in the future :) | 11:33 |
| Elleo | (to cutespotify that is) | 11:34 |
| tachikoma | PeterPark: yeah, i only installed some of the jolla apps and not much more | 11:38 |
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| {cms} | Elleo: amazing | 11:45 |
| {cms} | Elleo: I am an ex-lastfm staffer, so I'm quite custodial of my scrobble history | 11:45 |
| Elleo | unfortunately I had to remove the old liblastfm based scrobbling from meespot as that used liblastfm incorrectly from a legal standpoint | 11:46 |
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| Elleo | but libspotify now has some scrobbling code itself, so I just need a quick rewrite to use that instead :) | 11:49 |
| {cms} | interesting | 11:49 |
| Elleo | although when I have more time I might try doing something more general so it can scrobble to more services (I'm also a gnu fm/libre.fm developer :) ) | 11:51 |
| {cms} | ah, cool | 11:51 |
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| {cms} | well, it's a nice app, and I'd be happy to use it for most of my jolla music if scrobbling happens. | 11:52 |
| Elleo | :) | 11:52 |
| {cms} | i just get a bit compulsive about lost scrobbles :-) | 11:52 |
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| Venemo_j | hey | 12:29 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | Venemo_j: hey ! | 12:31 |
| Venemo_j | hi Sfiet_Konstantin :) | 12:31 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | Venemo_j: how are you ? | 12:31 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | how's irc chatter behaving ? :) | 12:31 |
| Venemo_j | Sfiet_Konstantin: it's fine | 12:34 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | Venemo_j: :) | 12:35 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | so soon in store ? :) | 12:35 |
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| Venemo_j | Sfiet_Konstantin: soon :) yes. | 12:36 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :) | 12:36 |
| Venemo_j | unless we find any serious bugs | 12:37 |
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| bennypr0fane | is anyone else getting notifications that Sf update 1.0.2.5 is available, even though that's we're already on now? | 12:43 |
| bennypr0fane | has happened twice already | 12:43 |
| ballock | bennypr0fane: known bug | 12:43 |
| ballock | stops happening at some point, though | 12:43 |
| ballock | a reboot or something | 12:44 |
| bennypr0fane | ballock ah. Any rumours out there, that the actual next update is | 12:44 |
| bennypr0fane | *might be close? | 12:44 |
| ballock | yes, soon(TM) | 12:44 |
| bennypr0fane | :-D | 12:44 |
| bennypr0fane | how soon? | 12:44 |
| bennypr0fane | you heard anything or not? | 12:44 |
| Venemo_j | very | 12:45 |
| bennypr0fane | Venemo_j, because you really want it to, very badly, or because someone reliable said it is? | 12:46 |
| Venemo_j | IIRC 1 update / month was promised | 12:46 |
| ln- | and there were 3 in december, so the next one could be in march and the promise would still be fulfilled on average. | 12:47 |
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| bennypr0fane | ln- right, if they are calculating this way | 12:47 |
| ballock | bennypr0fane: missing some cool feature that you can't wait till March? | 12:48 |
| Pnuu | bennypr0fane: https://together.jolla.com/questions/scope:all/sort:votes-desc/tags:roadmap/page:1/ | 12:48 |
| ballock | yeah, right | 12:48 |
| bennypr0fane | ballock, not exactly feature (except caldav maybe), but more bugfixes | 12:49 |
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| bennypr0fane | can't wait for more of those to happen | 12:49 |
| w00t | I think march is being rather pessimistic | 12:49 |
| bennypr0fane | in browser | 12:49 |
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| bennypr0fane | w00t, +1 | 12:49 |
| bennypr0fane | end of feb. tops | 12:50 |
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| Venemo_j | why? last update was ~1 month ago | 12:51 |
| bennypr0fane | my personal top priorities are system wide portrait mode, clipboard and caldav. proper text editing in browser | 12:51 |
| bennypr0fane | Venemo_j, right. it's kinda due by now | 12:52 |
| Venemo_j | we have system wide portrait mode already, don't we? | 12:52 |
| bennypr0fane | Venemo_j, waht | 12:52 |
| bennypr0fane | ? | 12:52 |
| bennypr0fane | damn, I have more than 3 top priorities | 12:52 |
| bennypr0fane | oops, sorry | 12:53 |
| Venemo_j | bennypr0fane: you said you wanted sytem wide portrait mode... | 12:53 |
| bennypr0fane | I emant landscape | 12:53 |
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| Venemo_j | meh | 12:53 |
| bennypr0fane | oc | 12:53 |
| Venemo_j | ok | 12:53 |
| bennypr0fane | it'S a must. I MUST HAVE better text input! | 12:53 |
| bennypr0fane | anya improvement to text input is an improvement to my life | 12:54 |
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| Venemo_j | okay bennypr0fane I understand | 13:07 |
| Venemo_j | I personally just want to see 3 things: 1) fixing the email app 2) fixing the browser 3) more allowed apis in harbour | 13:08 |
| bennypr0fane | Venemo_j, why thank you for being understanding | 13:08 |
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| Venemo_j | nah, ttyl guys :) | 13:10 |
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| roboro | mmm just saw that my jolla has an /etc/exports does this mean an nfs kernel server is installed? | 13:11 |
| roboro | that would mean that you could export your filesystem via NFS as an alternative to using sftp or scp | 13:12 |
| tachikoma | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPcV9uIY5i4 | 13:15 |
| tachikoma | awesome | 13:15 |
| Pnuu | roboro: https://together.jolla.com/question/976/nfs-access/ | 13:16 |
| roboro | that would be the other way around :) | 13:16 |
| roboro | so I realize that you can mount nfs from the jolla... but was wondering if you could export your nemo home directory on the jolla and then nfs mount it from another machine | 13:17 |
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| roboro | I'll probably stick with sftp since it works fine... but you never know... there may be a use-case :) | 13:19 |
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| ballock | the only use case I got was missing sshfs package from a system | 13:20 |
| ballock | while needing to have a fs accessible, not just to copy some files | 13:20 |
| ballock | (not from Jolla though) | 13:20 |
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| roboro | yeah... its not a likely scenario... was just exploring the phone and saw that there was an exports config file... which made me wonder if the phone had an nfs server available | 13:22 |
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| ballock | seems not, kernel config says NFSD is not enabled | 13:23 |
| roboro | ah... okie | 13:23 |
| ballock | if you really really need it, the kernel sources must be around | 13:24 |
| roboro | nah... I'm all good | 13:24 |
| ballock | On the other hand, you could get unfsd or some userspace NFSD | 13:25 |
| ballock | especially that you don't need to bother about locking issues or some uther unimplemented functionality | 13:25 |
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| ballock | I was running unfsd on my openwrt Asus router at some point | 13:26 |
| roboro | mmm will keep it in mind... if I come up with some obscure situation | 13:26 |
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| ballock | On second thought, I wouldn't mind a UI for accessing NFS. Actually my movies are on NFS "share" at home | 13:27 |
| roboro | yeah... that's a definite.. | 13:28 |
| roboro | preferably one that can unmount as soon as wifi drops | 13:28 |
| ballock | mount option "soft" | 13:28 |
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| roboro | mmm useful | 13:28 |
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| roboro | also... apps like media players maybe shouldn't index nfs shares... or if they do, only update indexes if mounted | 13:29 |
| ballock | although it doesn't umount, it wouldnt make your phone unresponsive waiting for IO | 13:29 |
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| roboro | true... I've run into that before... but not on phone | 13:30 |
| ballock | wow, that might take *ages* | 13:30 |
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| roboro | heh... my pi handles it :) | 13:31 |
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| ballock | I guess locally, not through network | 13:31 |
| roboro | no... over network... | 13:32 |
| ballock | how much data/time was that? | 13:32 |
| roboro | mmmm not sure offhand... took a long time though | 13:32 |
| ballock | (don't tell me... 100Mbit?) | 13:32 |
| ballock | (nay, would be too fast) | 13:33 |
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| roboro | 54mbps... 802.11g | 13:33 |
| Raim | ballock: NFS mounting works, but requires -o nolock as there is no rpc running. be aware of the implications that has. | 13:34 |
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| roboro | mmm avoid writes :) | 13:34 |
| ballock | no, I guess more like 'avoid concurrent write access' | 13:35 |
| ballock | but it should be ~ok for accessing movies | 13:35 |
| roboro | sure... I'd only really use nfs on my phone to access media and maybe provide access to some other files | 13:36 |
| ballock | what would you suggest, an mount script fired on my home wifi access? | 13:36 |
| ballock | or... automounter? | 13:36 |
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| roboro | hmmm not sure... I'd be happy with a mount script | 13:37 |
| Raim | my experiences of automounter are that it tends to hang on a flaky network | 13:37 |
| ballock | AUTOFS4 seems to be enabled on kernel level | 13:37 |
| roboro | yeah... I've heard a few complaints about automounter before | 13:37 |
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| ballock | I guess a fuse nfs client would be a safer call... is there one? | 13:39 |
| roboro | not really sure of the benefits of automount | 13:39 |
| ballock | roboro: no real mount after home wifi connection established | 13:39 |
| roboro | ballock: you thinking of making us a UI? ;-) | 13:39 |
| ballock | only on read attemts? | 13:39 |
| roboro | once you're on home wifi... having NFS mounted even if unused is fine | 13:40 |
| ballock | no, I'm selfish, I think of my own comfort in the first place | 13:40 |
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| roboro | heh... well share some of your selfish output once you're done... even if just a quick script | 13:41 |
| ballock | I don't think so, I'm not *that* sure the soft mount option will handle all cases gracefully | 13:41 |
| ballock | thus each carry-out would cause a broken fs mount | 13:41 |
| roboro | mmm I haven't payed around with it enough to test that | 13:41 |
| flux | ballock, use openvpn and use nfs over 3g! | 13:41 |
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| roboro | heh | 13:41 |
| ballock | an umount would only be possible *after* network disconnection, kind-a late | 13:42 |
| ballock | flux: I'm not *that* twisted, you know? | 13:42 |
| flux | have a daemon automatically unmount them if it disappears from the network. possibly with umount -l. | 13:42 |
| flux | actually autofs might work fine | 13:43 |
| flux | it would only remain mounted when you actually use it | 13:43 |
| flux | in fact, I should set that up :-o | 13:43 |
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| ballock | umount -l sounds good | 13:43 |
| ballock | would need to pass it in some way to autofs4 too... | 13:44 |
| flux | you've got the source! | 13:44 |
| ballock | yeah, I feel empowered to do all the ugly hacks in the world | 13:45 |
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| flux | that being said, probably sshfs is less of a hassle :) | 13:45 |
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| flux | first of all, you don't need to think about user id mapping.. | 13:47 |
| ballock | flux: you sound like you don't have a Kerberos infrastructure and a proper user mapping for NFS4 | 13:48 |
| ballock | :p | 13:48 |
| flux | I really should set that shit up some day as a learning experience. well, a week probably.. | 13:49 |
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| ballock | shouldn't be that bad, a friend of mine set it up to learn for RHCE | 13:50 |
| ballock | (although RHCE only covers client use of Kerberos, but he needed something to practice on) | 13:50 |
| ballock | and I believe he spent a week to learn for RHCE, so only a fraction must have been KDC setup | 13:51 |
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| kelvan | my le toh just arrived but ambience installation never finish, any workaround known? | 14:21 |
| Waitee | did you update your device? | 14:21 |
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| kelvan | I have 1.0.2.5 | 14:22 |
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| kelvan | store shows "The First One" in my apps, but it's impossible to activate it because ambience selector shows installing | 14:25 |
| kelvan | after reboot ambience vanished | 14:25 |
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| flux | try replugging toh? | 14:29 |
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| kelvan | then I got multiple "installing" in ambience | 14:33 |
| kelvan | rebooted several times | 14:33 |
| flux | it's surprising how much trouble toh-support has, given how it was announced to be a great feature of jolla ;-) | 14:33 |
| kelvan | flux: not the only thing buggy/broken on sailfish :( | 14:34 |
| AL13N_work | i don't have any issues, but then, i don't have an LE | 14:34 |
| AL13N_work | kelvan: i would reboot without an TOH | 14:34 |
| AL13N_work | then plug it in | 14:34 |
| kelvan | AL13N_work: normal toh worked after the first reattach | 14:35 |
| AL13N_work | kelvan: maybe some kind of auth is missing wrt the store settings in relation to the LE TOH | 14:35 |
| kelvan | i booted with the white one at the first attempt | 14:36 |
| kelvan | but i'll check journald if there is some hint | 14:36 |
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| kelvan | shop doesn't show any error | 14:36 |
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| teve | have you looked gallery -> ambience and set tfo as a favorite? | 14:38 |
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| kelvan | teve: it's not shown in the gallery at all | 14:40 |
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| ballock | I had this issue when I was away from network. When you come to think of this it's obvious - it's trying to install the ambience by downloading it from /dev/null ;) | 14:44 |
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| kelvan | ballock: the jolla had a stable connection to my server through ssh at the same time, but network is always buggy on sailfish :S | 14:56 |
| Stskeeps | idle curiousity, who here would be interested to help out with improving SD card support on sailfishos and get fingers dirty together with sailors? | 14:57 |
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| petantik | gut a few fish? | 15:01 |
| javispedro | *cricket sound* | 15:01 |
| petantik | how dirty. i don't have an sd card being used at the momnent, so yes possibly | 15:01 |
| petantik | oh, perhaps not. i'm away on break next week, so might not have the time | 15:02 |
| supauli | I tried inserting the SD and it worked fine as far as i observed (got mounted, and the mp3 in there played nicely) | 15:02 |
| supauli | Stskeeps: And same (what petantik said) goes for me, if its 'test this out' thats suits fine | 15:07 |
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| Stskeeps | :nod: | 15:09 |
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| kor | anyone know how fast the reader for the sd card is? | 15:12 |
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| supauli | try out with 'dd' ? ;) | 15:17 |
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| Morpog_Jolla | kor, i got about 5,5 MB/s write apeed over usb scp | 15:26 |
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| Morpog_Jolla | speed | 15:27 |
| petantik | isn't scp quite slow? | 15:27 |
| Morpog_Jolla | dunno | 15:27 |
| petantik | i think it is. | 15:28 |
| petantik | copy over ssh basically | 15:28 |
| friese | wohoo, my le toh just arrived :) | 15:29 |
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| supauli | dd with input = sd card file and output to dev-null ? | 15:31 |
| AL13N_work | petantik: well, you have the SSH overhead, but it's still quite fast | 15:32 |
| AL13N_work | nfs is very close to maximum | 15:32 |
| AL13N_work | and doesn't rely on CPU for the encryption of SSH | 15:32 |
| AL13N_work | one could also do a few nc commands to test that | 15:33 |
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| ballock | well, you still have usb overhead, or over-wifi encryption | 15:33 |
| AL13N_work | yes | 15:33 |
| AL13N_work | perhaps if you free enough space, you could set up tmpfs and dd from there | 15:34 |
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| AL13N_work | to test something, you need something that's guaranteed to be faster | 15:34 |
| AL13N_work | :-) | 15:34 |
| AL13N_work | /dev/null and /dev/zero are not representative imho | 15:35 |
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| ballock | /dev/null and /dev/zero are the fastest IO devices on the planet! | 15:35 |
| AL13N_work | exactly | 15:35 |
| AL13N_work | too fast | 15:36 |
| ballock | Benchmarks should compare SSD drives with that! | 15:36 |
| AL13N_work | or rather, the data /dev/zero generates isn't really representative | 15:36 |
| FireFly | I store all my data in /dev/null | 15:36 |
| FireFly | It's super efficient too | 15:36 |
| AL13N_work | it needs to be random data in order to have an accurate test | 15:36 |
| AL13N_work | so you should dd /dev/random to a tmpfs file | 15:36 |
| FireFly | Well, super efficient 'til you need to retrieve it | 15:36 |
| ballock | on the other hand /dev/urandom takes CPU cycles too | 15:36 |
| AL13N_work | and then dd from there to your testing place | 15:36 |
| ballock | no way, /dev/random is a couple of bytes/s | 15:37 |
| ballock | (depending on your hw, of course, but mostly it is) | 15:37 |
| AL13N_work | ballock: that's why you need to store it into a file first | 15:37 |
| AL13N_work | a tmpfs file | 15:37 |
| sharpneli | Or just use /dev/urandom | 15:37 |
| AL13N_work | that should be faster than the card | 15:37 |
| sharpneli | It doesn't block. | 15:37 |
| AL13N_work | sharpneli: actually, i don't think that's true anymore | 15:38 |
| Raim | of course that's still true | 15:38 |
| Raim | at least for Linux, it's different in the *BSD world | 15:38 |
| ballock | AL13N_work: That might be a good test case, with tmpfs you kinda get rid of possible device buffers ;) | 15:38 |
| sharpneli | Yap. It still applies. | 15:38 |
| sharpneli | Even if you use tmpfs you still should use urandom | 15:39 |
| AL13N_work | just use tmpfs, that much surer | 15:39 |
| AL13N_work | sharpneli: why? | 15:39 |
| sharpneli | Mostly because it's way faster to use | 15:39 |
| sharpneli | because it's a lot faster to create the file. | 15:39 |
| ballock | no issue that the writes to sdcard were buffered, as you're out of ram :p | 15:39 |
| AL13N_work | but that doesn't matter | 15:39 |
| sharpneli | In worst case you could wait for hours when makign a sizable file from /dev/random whereas with urandom it would be a minute or less | 15:39 |
| Raim | AL13N_work: /dev/random runs out of data pretty quickly and it takes a long time to gather enough entropy again | 15:40 |
| AL13N_work | it doesn't matter how long it takes to fill the tmpfs, it's more important to make sure it's uncompressable | 15:40 |
| sharpneli | Only use /dev/random if you need to generate a private key | 15:40 |
| sharpneli | And urandom is uncompressable | 15:40 |
| AL13N_work | sharpneli: not like you have that much free RAM in tmpfs :-) | 15:40 |
| sharpneli | I think you overestimate the power of /dev/random | 15:40 |
| ballock | a quick test on my server machine: | 15:40 |
| ballock | dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/null bs=1 | 15:41 |
| ballock | 80 bytes (80 B) copied, 25.2433 s, 0.0 kB/s | 15:41 |
| sharpneli | :D | 15:41 |
| * cb400f is going to pick up his jolla at FedEx very shortly \o/ | 15:41 | |
| AL13N_work | ballock: VMs don't count | 15:41 |
| ballock | it would take ages to create a reasonable-size file | 15:41 |
| AL13N_work | a jolla should have alot of ways to generate random data | 15:41 |
| ballock | It's a physical server. | 15:41 |
| AL13N_work | if you're using the touchscreen alot, you might gather more entropy | 15:42 |
| Raim | as I said, it will take a long time to get enough data from /dev/random :-) | 15:42 |
| ballock | i7-3770S | 15:42 |
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| ballock | damn, I'll give it a try on Jolla | 15:42 |
| sharpneli | I tried it on jolla | 15:42 |
| sharpneli | 230 bytes in 9 seconds | 15:42 |
| Raim | anyway, I would rather recommend bonnie++ or iozone for any tests like that as that also tests seeks etc. | 15:43 |
| sharpneli | So yeah Jolla generates way more random data than the server ;D | 15:43 |
| sharpneli | But not quite enough :D | 15:43 |
| sharpneli | Whereas dev/urandom works at 125kb/s | 15:43 |
| sharpneli | 25 bytes per second versus 125kb/s ;D | 15:44 |
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| AL13N_work | sharpneli: try to use your touchscreen alot to generate more entropy :-) | 15:44 |
| ballock | sharpneli: you seems you got a more random model! I got 0 bytes in 142 | 15:44 |
| ballock | sorry, in 14s | 15:44 |
| sharpneli | AL13N_work: You can never genrate kilobytes of entropy from that | 15:44 |
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| supauli | huh, just dd '/' to generate 'random' data ? You dont need really random data i think .. ? | 15:45 |
| sharpneli | AL13N_work: I did use it. Probably that's why it was up to 25 per second | 15:45 |
| AL13N_work | nice, entropy goes up quite alot | 15:45 |
| sharpneli | supauli: Or just use the /dev/urandom | 15:45 |
| ballock | another attempt got me 24bytes/26s, less then 1B/s | 15:45 |
| sharpneli | I really don't understand why anyone would want to use random when making a simple test file :D | 15:45 |
| supauli | ya :) | 15:46 |
| AL13N_work | well, i donno if network usage is also used, cause i don't have a SIM in my jolla | 15:46 |
| ballock | it seems AL13N_work is tryink to make prank. Imagine a couple of Jolla guys tapping on the screen to get a couple of useless for the test case random bytes. | 15:46 |
| sharpneli | Agreed :D | 15:47 |
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| AL13N_work | lol | 15:47 |
| sharpneli | Especially as the only benefit of /dev/random is that it's more resiliant to attacks :D | 15:47 |
| AL13N_work | isn't that funny | 15:47 |
| ballock | A good joke, AL13N_work :p | 15:47 |
| Venemo_j | hey hey | 15:47 |
| AL13N_work | can you imagine all these guys on their jolla's? | 15:47 |
| Eztran | 'who're you texting then?' 'Oh, nobody, just trying to generate entropy.' | 15:47 |
| AL13N_work | hahaha | 15:47 |
| Venemo_j | what's the fun? | 15:48 |
| AL13N_work | oh noes! something ate up all my entropy | 15:48 |
| AL13N_work | and i had like 800+ entropy too | 15:48 |
| ballock | what? did you dd it to /dev/null? Hah, that was my prank now! | 15:48 |
| AL13N_work | lol | 15:50 |
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| AL13N_work | actually /dev/urandom does block, it only gives my jolla 2.5MB/s while /dev/zero (which doesn't block) gives me about 15MB/s | 15:50 |
| AL13N_work | :-) | 15:50 |
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| sharpneli | ... | 15:51 |
| sharpneli | It's slow because it takes time to generate the stream | 15:51 |
| Venemo_j | btw guys, I must say something | 15:51 |
| sharpneli | The point is that urandom doesn't block and wait for more entropy | 15:51 |
| Venemo_j | ambience is THE BEST IDEA EVER! | 15:51 |
| sharpneli | It doesn't mean it's going to repeat the same crap. | 15:51 |
| sharpneli | It just means it's not cryptographically secure. | 15:52 |
| AL13N_work | ? | 15:52 |
| petantik | AL13N_work: I've never found scp fast at all. especially on embedded systems. | 15:52 |
| AL13N_work | i have little experience with scp on embedded systems | 15:52 |
| stephg | petantik scp is, frankly, crap | 15:52 |
| Venemo_j | whoever came up with the idea of ambience, I owe them a beer | 15:52 |
| stephg | Venemo_j your phone just arrived? | 15:52 |
| ballock | What colour did you get? Blue? | 15:53 |
| petantik | AL13N_work: it's like a magnitude difference between scp and ftp | 15:53 |
| Venemo_j | stephg: no, I've had it for a month. why? | 15:53 |
| stephg | petantik there will be an encryption overhead but ftp vs rsync over ssh is nearly always fairer | 15:53 |
| Venemo_j | ballock: the phone is white, the ambience is, well, I always change it :) | 15:54 |
| stephg | Venemo_j why the love for ambiance! | 15:54 |
| ballock | It just came on us like out of the blue. Why such awe after a month? | 15:54 |
| sharpneli | AL13N_work: Just read the random manpage. It explains everything. | 15:54 |
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| sharpneli | AL13N_work: man 4 random | 15:54 |
| AL13N_work | sharpneli: yes yes... | 15:54 |
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| AL13N_work | sharpneli: i'll stop trolling, please give it a rest :-) | 15:55 |
| sharpneli | my sarcasm detectors have been broken due to internet :D | 15:55 |
| sharpneli | And seeing too many people being serious :E | 15:55 |
| sharpneli | "Is he stupid or just trolling?" :( | 15:55 |
| Venemo_j | stephg: the more I experiment with it, the better it becomes | 15:55 |
| AL13N_work | i love how you can start something and some people really go off on it | 15:55 |
| AL13N_work | Venemo_j: did you mean the ambience generation from pictures? | 15:55 |
| Venemo_j | eg. search for the wallpaper called 'dawn in madrid' - this produced the prettiest ambience for me so far | 15:56 |
| Raim | Venemo_j: I am not so sure about the "ambience". even with the included images the transparency hinders readability in some dialogs. maybe I just need better pictures... | 15:56 |
| AL13N_work | Raim: perhaps you too need to experiment with the picture generated ambiences | 15:56 |
| Venemo_j | Raim: well yes, some pics produce less readable results | 15:57 |
| Venemo_j | but I love the feature in general | 15:57 |
| AL13N_work | Venemo_j: so, you're saying that it's not ambiences that's the best feature, it's the ambience generation of pics | 15:57 |
| Raim | for example, the pre-installed Moon Ship ambience has that large white spot in the corner while the font is white as well. | 15:57 |
| Venemo_j | this is really the best way to customize a theme | 15:58 |
| {cms} | I like the procedurally generated themes *a lot* | 15:58 |
| Venemo_j | AL13N_work: both, but I like the ambience feature in general | 15:58 |
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| Venemo_j | AL13N_work: the whole idea is genious | 15:58 |
| {cms} | i have an emacs theme I spent years tweaking, so I took a photo of it and made it into an ambience, quickest theme port ever | 15:58 |
| Eztran | Seems the feature itself will be more useful when more things can be attached to it. | 15:58 |
| AL13N_work | Venemo_j: i'm a bit of an exception, in that i don't really care about look, and i think the fingerterm is the best feature | 15:59 |
| Venemo_j | AL13N_work: fingerterm is horrendously unusable | 15:59 |
| AL13N_work | i mean, the black and the white | 16:00 |
| Venemo_j | ah. | 16:00 |
| AL13N_work | but i think fingerterm is quite usable though | 16:00 |
| AL13N_work | alot better than those android keybs | 16:00 |
| Venemo_j | well, ok, I accept your opinion, but I do like colorful stuff | 16:00 |
| AL13N_work | Venemo_j: don't worry, i accept your opinion too | 16:00 |
| AL13N_work | :-) | 16:01 |
| Venemo_j | AL13N_work: awedome, thanks :) | 16:01 |
| Venemo_j | awesome* | 16:01 |
| AL13N_work | btw: any of you gguys coming to FOSDEM? | 16:01 |
| Venemo_j | I dunno | 16:01 |
| Venemo_j | faenil & fk_lx kind of convinced me to go | 16:02 |
| Venemo_j | faenil and fk_lx kind of convinced me to go | 16:02 |
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| Venemo_j | AL13N_work: however I have no place to sleep yet, and not much money for it | 16:08 |
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| Venemo_j | hm | 16:17 |
| Venemo_j | I have download whose size is -1B | 16:17 |
| clau2 | Venemo_j, so it was actually an upload then? :P | 16:18 |
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| Wnt | I tested my Jolla's internal flash and sd card performance with a 16 MB file created from /dev/urandom. Tests were performed with dd, conv=fdatasync enabled. Internal flash write speed is about 9MB/s, sd card write 6MB/s, read speed 16 MB/s. | 16:22 |
| Wnt | The sd card is a class 10 64GB SanDisk with a btrfs filesystem. http://www.sandisk.co.uk/products/memory-cards/microsd/ultra-class10-for-android/ | 16:22 |
| Wnt | The sd card was unmounted and remounted between writing the test file there and reading it again | 16:23 |
| Wnt | Didn't bother to reboot the device to measure the internal flash read speed | 16:23 |
| ballock | Wnt: You mean with a 16 GB file, right? | 16:24 |
| Wnt | ballock: nope, 16 MB file | 16:24 |
| Venemo_j | clau2: no, it's negative space! the more I download a file like this the more free space I'll have on da device | 16:25 |
| ballock | That's kind of tiny test case and I'm not sure I trust fdatasync that much | 16:26 |
| tj____ | Wnt, better test with a > 1GB file from /dev/zero .. | 16:26 |
| ballock | but the numbers seem probable | 16:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | dev/urandom may be limited by CPU | 16:26 |
| tj____ | yes | 16:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Check what speed it gets. | 16:26 |
| SpeedEvil | time dd if=/dev/urandom bs=1024 count=1024000 of=/dev/zero | 16:27 |
| Wnt | the file used for tests was created before running the tests | 16:27 |
| tj____ | of=/dev/null i suppose | 16:27 |
| tj____ | /dev/null != /dev/zero | 16:27 |
| ballock | no, store them in zeros for later use | 16:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Wnt: then youi're also relying on the read speed of the other device | 16:27 |
| tj____ | /dev/null for discarding writes, /dev/zero for unlimited source of 0x00 bytes for free | 16:28 |
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| Wnt | I read somewhere that writing only zeros to a flash device might be optimized on the flash device level so that you might get a lot higher speeds than writing actual data | 16:28 |
| SpeedEvil | That is plausible. | 16:28 |
| tj____ | maybe, wouldn't know about that | 16:29 |
| ballock | umm... I;m not sure that SD cards may have such intelligence | 16:29 |
| ballock | more like SSD intelligence | 16:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Protip. | 16:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | SSDs and SDs are the same thing. | 16:30 |
| SpeedEvil | It's just most SDs are much, much dumber than most SSDs. | 16:30 |
| ballock | Well, I get 170MB write speed on my SSD and 5MB on SD | 16:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Because they have to fit the controller on one tiny chip with - comparatively - little resource. | 16:30 |
| ballock | it's not just dumbness :p | 16:30 |
| tj____ | http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3554 but there's intelligence inside each sd card too though | 16:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Not solely - no. | 16:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | But the dumbness is why many SD cards can be slower than floppy at random-write. | 16:31 |
| ballock | You really haven't seen floppies for a looong time. | 16:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | Admittedly - slower than floppy at sustained write | 16:36 |
| jubo2 | So if I go to DNA kauppa tomorrow there is Jolla phone to try and potentially buy ..? | 16:37 |
| SpeedEvil | And I have a large box of floppy drives I am meaning to gut for parts. | 16:37 |
| javispedro | AL13N_work: I am going to fosdem | 16:38 |
| javispedro | hmhm.. should probably follow the together.j.c question.. | 16:38 |
| javispedro | https://together.jolla.com/question/11303/are-you-going-to-fosdem-2014-irl-floss-meeting-in-belgium/ | 16:39 |
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| jubo2 | what is this rubbish I hear of the NFC chip being on for TX without prior or posterior approvement by user ? | 16:42 |
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| Pnuu | jubo2: it is on for TOH, it can't be used for much more | 16:45 |
| jubo2 | NFC should be activated for TX only in case of user approvement by gesture for maximum consumer protection | 16:45 |
| jubo2 | Pnuu: what's TOH? | 16:45 |
| AL13N_work | The Other Half | 16:45 |
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| AL13N_work | jubo2: actually, some research showed that TOH was untracable if it's near the jolla (~3cm) | 16:47 |
| AL13N_work | so, it's actually a "feature" :-) | 16:47 |
| jubo2 | I'd keep it listening all the time but require user auth for any TX, before or after touching an active device | 16:47 |
| AL13N_work | jubo2: in other words, if you have a TOH on your phone, you're effectively untracable with NFC | 16:47 |
| AL13N_work | jubo2: people are thinking about using the NFC for something else, but it may or may not be possible | 16:48 |
| AL13N_work | unsure yet | 16:48 |
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| AL13N_work | i'm sure if it's actually usable for something else that this kind of authentication will be done | 16:48 |
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| jubo2 | NFC should be great for bootstrapping apps and bluetooth and wlan comms | 16:51 |
| jubo2 | The mass transit vehicle tags are also a killer application when you can access the reittiopas with data "I am onboard vehicle X and would like ot wind up in Y" | 16:52 |
| ShadowJK | Even if TX was on all the time, and it received something, all that would happen is probably some app going "plz to Give me all your personal data and browsing history kthx? No ambience with such a name exists" | 16:52 |
| jubo2 | Good of Nokia to add the device class "transponder" to NFC machines | 16:53 |
| jubo2 | like I imagine that once NFC has hit through all the rubbish bins and recycling bins will have NFC transponders that just toss the link to the app to report information regarding bins | 16:55 |
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| jubo2 | "Touch this icon to report full or almost full bin." | 16:56 |
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| ShadowJK | $work has bin that sends sms to garbage truck when it approaches full | 16:56 |
| javispedro | "the internet of trash" | 16:57 |
| jubo2 | "Touch this to X" is the whole idea with transponder devices | 16:57 |
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| sjo__ | i bought jollamobile today. i cant login my jolla-account with phone but i can with computer. what do i need to do? | 17:00 |
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| tbr | sjo__: is the internet connection working? | 17:02 |
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| sjo__ | yes i use wlan | 17:02 |
| ShadowJK | hm | 17:04 |
| ShadowJK | My jolla's settings app took ages to start, wifi was disabled and tapping it didn't change anything. Same for mobile data. So I powered off, and now it's sitting with red led lit. | 17:05 |
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| javispedro | yeah, no shutdown watchdog | 17:11 |
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| slate | Waiting for a new update is like waiting for christmas. Except you never know when the updates going to come. | 17:17 |
| slate | But still, checking like twice a day manually. :) | 17:17 |
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| Morpog_PC | https://together.jolla.com/question/15881/sailfish-browser-doesnt-dither-correctly/ | 17:18 |
| javispedro | btw | 17:19 |
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| Stskeeps | hrm | 17:19 |
| javispedro | mine is reporting that update 1.0.2.5 is available every time I check | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: yes, bug | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | we can't time travel to fix it though | 17:19 |
| Morpog_PC | vote up please :D | 17:19 |
| javispedro | oh, thought I messed up pkg db | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | why do we render in 16-bit.. | 17:20 |
| slate | I got that too every once and a while. Oh the joy when I realize its the same ol'. | 17:20 |
| ShadowJK | Ah, finally it shut down. And booted | 17:20 |
| slate | ShadowJK: did you take the battery out or just waited? | 17:21 |
| ShadowJK | waited | 17:21 |
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| slate | Exceptional feature in a 2013 smartphone, removable battery. | 17:21 |
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| Tumeez | Stskeeps Can you help sjo__ Jolla Account problem? :) | 17:23 |
| slate | Could someone render me a second half with canon EF-socket in it. Kidding. But why not make a solid socket for those cheapo chinese addonlenses for smartphones. | 17:23 |
| sjo__ | what do i need to do? i did jolla account with computer but i cant login with phone | 17:23 |
| Stskeeps | Tumeez: mmm jolla accounts are really not my area | 17:24 |
| Morpog_Mobile | Well stskeeps, it looks like 16bit rendering | 17:24 |
| Stskeeps | sjo__: same login / password as on account.jolla.com | 17:24 |
| Morpog_Mobile | Look at the image in browser | 17:24 |
| sjo__ | yes i can login with internet but i cant with phone | 17:25 |
| Morpog_Mobile | The non smooth gradient | 17:25 |
| javispedro | Morpog_Mobile: Stskeeps: browser is rendering in 5-6-5, can be test visually via e.g. http://battletech.hopto.org/html_tutorials/colourtest/ | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | okay | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | i wonder why | 17:26 |
| Stskeeps | rest of stack is rgba8888 surfaces | 17:26 |
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| javispedro | browser also lies and tells javascript "32-bit" | 17:26 |
| javispedro | (screen.colorDepth) | 17:27 |
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| AJAX555 | so, update is now available, does this include nfc bugfix? | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | erm, update is available? | 17:41 |
| AJAX555 | oh, sorry, my bad | 17:41 |
| AJAX555 | next time I should read the whole title.. | 17:41 |
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| supauli | mhmhmhm, i got developer ide fired up but its complaining 'outside of shared home /home/pauli' though the project is at '/home/pauli/jolla_test0'. | 17:46 |
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| supauli | I thought it would be due my /home is symlink to /data/home but making the project inside /data/home/pauli didnt help | 17:46 |
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| supauli | fuck me. i removed the installation with rm -rf and now the SDK doesnt install anymore 'you have existing installation, please remove it first .. ' (using the program i have removed .. ) | 18:01 |
| slate | does sdk uninstall | 18:03 |
| sremes | supauli: did you remove the virtual machines too? | 18:05 |
| supauli | I tried, i just cannot find out what else to remove, i tried stracing and find . -newer | 18:07 |
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| supauli | .VirtualBox, .VirtualBox2 .config/Trolltech.conf, .config/SailfishAlpha3, .scrachbox2 (some might be from N9 developer installation .. ) | 18:08 |
| supauli | i would image strace with the launch should pinpoint me what file it finds annoying .. | 18:08 |
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| cb400f | hey, just got my Jolla. I have a micro sim card that I manually cut down from a standard sim card, it's been working nicely for 2½ years on the N9, but the Jolla doesn't see the sim card. Anybody got any pointers? | 18:19 |
| Stskeeps | cb400f: make sure that the leftmost sim detector is properly triggered | 18:20 |
| mikma | cb400f: get a fresh micro-sim from your operator | 18:20 |
| Stskeeps | but yeah, that too | 18:20 |
| Nicd- | cb400f: have you tried removing it and putting it back a few times? | 18:20 |
| Pnuu | https://together.jolla.com/question/1358/sim-card-connection-to-phone-lost-easily/ | 18:21 |
| Nicd- | mine didn't work the first time but I've had no problems since I reinserted it | 18:21 |
| Pnuu | there's some discussion | 18:21 |
| cb400f | Stskeeps: leftmost from the backside? that slot I left empty, I'm using the right one | 18:22 |
| Stskeeps | well, in the sim slot, there's a detector in the top left | 18:22 |
| Raim | cb400f: there is a small switch that needs to be triggered, http://relativity.fi/jolla_sim/sim_problem.JPG | 18:22 |
| Raim | it's known to fail with manually cut sim-cards when they do not match the form exactly | 18:23 |
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| TSCHAKMac | are there qml components for pushing things onto the Notifcation or clock panels? | 18:23 |
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| ballock | I just started exploring the packages available through pkcon. | 18:34 |
| ballock | found some voicecalls ofono plugins... | 18:35 |
| ballock | what could that be doing? | 18:35 |
| ballock | sip calls? | 18:35 |
| Stskeeps | well, we use telepathy-ring atm | 18:36 |
| Stskeeps | -ofono was for a telepathy-less stack | 18:36 |
| Stskeeps | but that seems not to really be sane | 18:36 |
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| supauli | Huh, i got the SDK again running (after reboot, i think there was some process running that prevented the install) | 18:38 |
| supauli | but still no luck with running, the example project build fails with '/data/home/mersdk//build-jolla0-MerSDK_SailfishOS_i486_x86-Debug' -- i dont see where that mersdk comes there | 18:38 |
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| ballock | so... with the telepathy service - how far are we from making sip calls? | 18:41 |
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| ballock | just ui elements? | 18:41 |
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| Stskeeps | hmm, sec | 18:42 |
| Stskeeps | ballock: https://together.jolla.com/question/415/sip-voip-native-integration/#post-id-704 | 18:42 |
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| Stskeeps | ballock: Aard would know more | 18:43 |
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| Aard | ballock: ui elements and accounts integration is missing | 18:43 |
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| Stskeeps | Aard: for multiple telepathy accounts in dialer, or for setting it up in UI? | 18:44 |
| Stskeeps | ie, if it's possible to add through shell | 18:44 |
| Aard | Stskeeps: both | 18:44 |
| Stskeeps | oki | 18:45 |
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| Stskeeps | Aard: didn't the old nemo dialer have that? | 18:45 |
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| Aard | there were some hacks directly polling telepathy accounts | 18:45 |
| ballock | so I can't yet make a script that would transfer incoming calls to my sip phone at home while on home wifi, I guess? | 18:46 |
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| Aard | depends on your definition of 'script' :) | 18:47 |
| ballock | bash? | 18:47 |
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| ballock | python? | 18:47 |
| Aard | my guess is it'll involve some c-hacking and diving into telepathy | 18:47 |
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| ballock | asterisk? | 18:47 |
| ballock | c-hacking sounds like no scripting... | 18:48 |
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| * TSCHAKMac chuckles | 18:49 | |
| TSCHAKMac | it's not really specified, but, can an app add elements to either the notification or clock/alarm panels? | 18:50 |
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| Nicd- | TSCHAKMac: those are #sailfishos issues. at least coderus has notifications in his app | 18:58 |
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| slate | Has anyone stumbled to this bug in together. already? Device sleeps, press the power button once, nothing happens, press again and for 4,6 nanoseconds the screen turns on and off again. | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, it sometimes takes a bit long to start up | 19:03 |
| attah | slate: yep | 19:03 |
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| slate | I waited a bit and still it did not load. But right after pressing the button again it flashed. | 19:04 |
| attah | same here.. | 19:04 |
| TSCHAKMac | Nicd-: thank you :) | 19:05 |
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| cb400f | Raim: Stskeeps: thanks, one of two jollas with the problem solved. For the other it seems I'll have to get an "official" micro sim | 19:10 |
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| ballock | Seems it was a lucky cut for me - no sim issues whatsoever. | 19:15 |
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| ballock | I guess it's a common question, but uncle Google is not helpful - is there an X server emulation layer where I could use some regular X apps? | 19:18 |
| special | I haven't seen anything for sailfish so far | 19:18 |
| special | for desktop wayland, xwayland does this | 19:19 |
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| supauli | uhh, seems like i really cannot get the build system working with my machine (my guess is that /home as symlink is the problem). Best i can do is 'is outside of mer src ...' or 'cannot cd /data/home/mersdk/<build dir>' | 19:20 |
| supauli | has anybody installed and got working the on none $HOME/ installation ? | 19:20 |
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| Pnuu | supauli: try #sailfishos, perhaps? | 19:21 |
| special | supauli: I used it outside of $HOME months ago. It should be basically the same process for setup. | 19:21 |
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| supauli | K, so its 'should work' anyway, thanks both, sorry for frustration openings :/ | 19:21 |
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| rigo | pawky: Have you seen blackphone? http://thenextweb.com/mobile/2014/01/15/blackphone-new-privacy-focused-smartphone-silent-circle-geeksphone/ | 19:25 |
| rigo | pawky: that's what I meant by saying make it privacy friendly and use opportunistic encryption | 19:26 |
| rigo | pawky, when we discussed last time | 19:26 |
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| mornfall | so how much does QA on Harbour typically take? | 19:31 |
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| Quu | very | 19:35 |
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| attah | I hope they got access to RRC signalling and turn down extraneous positioning ;) | 19:39 |
| attah | TBH i would like to do stuff like that on my Jolla.. | 19:41 |
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| Jonni | mornfall: about a week, depends on queue. | 19:42 |
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| mornfall | oh golly | 19:46 |
| mornfall | why does it say 48h on harbour then? :) | 19:46 |
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| attah | My poor mac can't take firefox and virtual machine, let alone two :( | 19:52 |
| attah | Anyone got recommendations on a linux laptop? | 19:52 |
| special | new mac? :> | 19:52 |
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| attah | no.. 2011 cheapest macbook air with 2gb ram | 19:53 |
| attah | from when i was a student.. | 19:53 |
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| attah | make that 2010 | 19:54 |
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| special | yes; buy a new mac. | 19:55 |
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| attah | but they have messed up the os so badly now :( | 19:56 |
| attah | or you meant to run linux on? | 19:56 |
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| special | I'm still using OS X. | 19:57 |
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| attah | okay.. and it works well for you? mavericks? | 19:58 |
| special | it does | 19:58 |
| eitzei | Hi, is there information about dates when jolla has released updates? Because I am pretty sure I already had 1.0.2.5 version but just a minute ago my Jolla told me to install a update:o | 19:59 |
| attah | it just seems that building anything with even one dependency is such a hassle.. but it could just be me being a noob | 19:59 |
| attah | eitzei: common bug | 19:59 |
| special | eitzei: there is no new update, it's a bug in the store client that will be fixed in the next (real) update | 19:59 |
| special | attah: you know of homebrew, I assume? | 20:00 |
| eitzei | Aah,thanks! | 20:00 |
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| attah | special: more or less.. i have macports.. kind of like using more instead off less i presume.. | 20:00 |
| special | yeah; homebrew is much nicer. | 20:00 |
| special | to be fair, I do my mobile development within a linux VM. | 20:00 |
| attah | busted ;) | 20:01 |
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| attah | what do you feel the mac does better than a generic linux distro? (if we try to overlook that ubuntu borked their WM) | 20:04 |
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| Pnuu | attah: the first thing I do on a new ubuntu installation is to replace unity with gnome-shell | 20:06 |
| Pnuu | can't stand unity.. | 20:06 |
| special | hardware and hardware support (for their own hardware, of course); I dislike gnome/kde/unity/*; application and WM polish | 20:07 |
| edgars | f-u-c-k | 20:08 |
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| attah | Pnuu: my thoughts exactly.. i had one running some scrips when i did my thesis.. never imagined multitasking a terminal and a file browser could be that hard | 20:08 |
| edgars | no sound, no answer from care@ | 20:08 |
| edgars | and now phone randomly shut's down :/ | 20:08 |
| special | edgars: care@ is pretty overloaded.. there will be an answer eventually :| | 20:09 |
| edgars | special: much more broken devices than expected? :) | 20:09 |
| special | they do a lot more than broken devices ;) | 20:10 |
| edgars | heal broken hearts? ;) | 20:10 |
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| slate | common customer support maybe? | 20:11 |
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| edgars | slate: you sounds angry ;) | 20:13 |
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| attah | btw special, thanks for the input.. since i don't share your use and preferences (although good points) it makes me just a bit more inclined to go full linux | 20:14 |
| slate | Naa, used to work at Care with one other company. Fixing devices was not the whole deal. | 20:14 |
| special | attah: you're probably a better person than I ;) | 20:14 |
| attah | i doubt it ;) | 20:15 |
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| edgars | well, fixing broken devices is a smallest and easies part | 20:15 |
| attah | edgars: true that.. broken humans are worse! | 20:16 |
| slate | swapping broken devices is the easiest part. ;) | 20:16 |
| slate | But, swap-pool with Jolla's cant be too large atm? | 20:17 |
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| edgars | it depends who put all parts together | 20:18 |
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| clau2 | has anyone had any success in connecting to one of those wifi networks for which a page is automaticaly opened to sign in? | 20:22 |
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| rigo | attah, I have dell quadcore latitude with 8gb & ssd and opensuse + kde. It is not as good as mac, but it works | 20:23 |
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| clau2 | I had a horrible experience with one, the phone kept opening new tabs in browser. took a while to stop the madness. | 20:23 |
| rigo | whatever you get, get an SSD, not a HD | 20:23 |
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| attah | rigo: yeah.. dells are pretty nice.. the linux xps13 looks rather promising.. i'll look at latitude. yep, know that (that's partly why I'm on a MBAir) | 20:25 |
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| slate | clau: yea. | 20:26 |
| attah | Hmm.. maybe this: http://www.clevo.com.tw/en/products/prodinfo_2.asp?productid=472 | 20:28 |
| clau | slate, any idea if there's a report for it on TJC ? | 20:29 |
| Nicd- | I've been looking at 13" macbook pros since my current one is dying | 20:29 |
| Nicd- | mainly for the retina screen | 20:29 |
| clau | slate, I'm not even sure how to search for that :\ | 20:29 |
| slate | clau: having success to connect? | 20:29 |
| rigo | attah, it was actually pretty cheap compared to everything else, but you can feel that. Performance and battery life are ok | 20:29 |
| clau | success or failure, anything | 20:30 |
| clau | there's a chance that it works with some of those systems, and it doesn't with others. | 20:30 |
| slate | ah. worked at cdg, I could login. At one bar the page kept poppin up like you said. | 20:30 |
| attah | rigo: dells can do that, be cheap-ish without breaking all the time :) | 20:31 |
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| clau | slate, then it's probably some incompatability with some specific system | 20:34 |
| r2rien | Nicd-: if I had the money you might have for a macbook, i would rather go for http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/b/techcenter/archive/2013/11/14/ubuntu-on-the-precision-m3800.aspx#pi20987=2 | 20:35 |
| slate | clau: yup, when it kept popping up, I was not logging in. Dont know how it would have reacted if I had logged. | 20:36 |
| r2rien | ...whithout ubuntu but with arch and mate wich just entered [community] repository | 20:36 |
| Nicd- | r2rien: but the starting price is the same for a worse display :( | 20:38 |
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| attah | sweet! it comes without a numpad, that's rare in that size-range.. | 20:40 |
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| pawky | rigo: yes, I have seen it :-) | 20:50 |
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| pawky | rigo: i am not to sure though wether I would like to buy a phone made for pure security of a company I don't know much about. I'll think I would rather go for bying a phone just designed to be a phone and then open source security on top of it. OpenVPN and sip within or something... | 20:52 |
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| pawky | rigo: I believe the Jolla phone would be a much better platform to build security around.. :-) | 20:54 |
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| mornfall | attah: what about lenovo? :) | 20:57 |
| attah | mornfall: i had a thinkpad before my mac.. it was nice.. can't quite figure out if i like any of their current models though.. any favourites? | 20:58 |
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| Stskeeps | if i was to release a phone to collect data about a lot of people that are doing suspicious stuff, i'd advertise it as totally secure. | 20:58 |
| attah | ^evil genius | 20:59 |
| Quu | thats what NSA does with their VPN service | 21:00 |
| pawky | Stskeeps: Exactly my point | 21:00 |
| FireFly | Stskeeps: don't you mean "when I helped to release a phone [...]"? | 21:00 |
| mornfall | attah: I have a x230. | 21:00 |
| FireFly | s/to // | 21:00 |
| pawky | That's why Jolla is probably a much safer bet, used with open source security | 21:00 |
| FireFly | pawky: they seem to like emphasising valuing the user's security/privacy.. :p | 21:01 |
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| pawky | FireFly: It's a bit of a catch 22, if they actually succceed to make a secure phone, you know that the NSA with friends all over the world, will make sure they will hack it... | 21:02 |
| pawky | FireFly: even if it means talking to the chip manufacturers to put in a little "extra feature"... before soldering stuff on the board... | 21:03 |
| pawky | or selling it to the motherboard manufacturer... | 21:04 |
| FireFly | hardware malware scares me | 21:04 |
| FireFly | and things like hardware-based sidechannels | 21:04 |
| attah | mornfall: nice.. but perhaps just a bit on the small side.. and a few more vertical pixels would be nice | 21:04 |
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| mornfall | attah: seems to me you can get a fairly rugged laptop packed with solid hardware... at least compared to macs of similar price | 21:04 |
| pawky | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vILAlhwUgIU | 21:04 |
| mornfall | attah: yeah, well, the display isn't so great; good enough for emacs ;) | 21:04 |
| pawky | listen and learn folks... ;-) | 21:05 |
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| attah | mornfall: sure.. and imho thinkpads are prettier :) so many options.. | 21:06 |
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| stephg | evening all | 21:06 |
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| Quu | pewpew lazorz | 21:09 |
| pawky | X-p | 21:09 |
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| clau | the thing about security and privacy is that it's not black and white, it's more like shades of gray. | 21:17 |
| clau | you can still protect yourself against mass surveillance, but if you attract enough attention to become a target, there's not much you can do. | 21:21 |
| smokex | like: I spend my time wiping keyloggers and remote control viruses off peoples home systems | 21:21 |
| smokex | then a day later I could be working for a ceo that wants me to install the same kind of apps on every employees system in his corporation | 21:22 |
| petantik | plus, all the nasty stuff is probably in the baseband processor for your phone rather than the os. | 21:23 |
| clau | by black and white, and shades of gray I meant to say it's about levels | 21:25 |
| clau | it wasn't meant like black hat vs white hat. | 21:25 |
| clau | well, as far as I know even Jolla runs some binaries from Qualcomm, right? | 21:25 |
| clau | so even if everything else is completely secure, there's still a little bit of code you can't be 100% sure of. | 21:25 |
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| pawky | clau: Exactly... that'w why i believe that blackphone thingy will fail.. | 21:26 |
| clau | I tend to agree with you pawky, but I don't know much about it yet. | 21:26 |
| Stskeeps | in other news, Tizen gets advertised as "Safety first".. | 21:26 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:26 |
| clau | hihihi :D | 21:26 |
| smokex | how hard would it be to write open replacement drivers for the qualcomm devices | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | hard. | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | well | 21:27 |
| clau | if there are no specs... it would really suck. | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | there's people doing freedreno | 21:27 |
| Yaniel | just look at mesa | 21:27 |
| pawky | It's at places people believe they are safe, they are most vulnerable, as they tend to just trust security... and thats where you hit them... | 21:27 |
| pawky | using stuff that's not 100% safe, makes people more alert... | 21:28 |
| sahib_ | oops. anyone know the default permission-octets for / (dirs/files)? I set them to 777 by mistake... | 21:28 |
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| Stskeeps | sahib_: sounds like you'll have to deal with a factory reset soon | 21:29 |
| smokex | who would have thought to look in the math processor's random number generator | 21:29 |
| pawky | sabih_ great... just do an rm -rf afterards and youre done.... | 21:29 |
| clau | there's no such thing as 100% in security. if anyone wants to sell you a 100% secure solution, he's either lying or just doesn't know wtf he is talking about. | 21:29 |
| pawky | clau: exactly, but people TEND to believe there is, usually called anti virus... or firewall... or just... the state.. | 21:29 |
| sahib_ | Stskeeps: hmm.. didn't set the permissions recursively, just the files/folders in the root | 21:29 |
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| Stskeeps | either way, you might end up in a boot loop at next boot. | 21:30 |
| sahib_ | I could restore them, if someone would be so kind and tell me what they are :-D | 21:30 |
| clau | don't reboot yet :) | 21:30 |
| pawky | sahib_: be carefull and think twice before changing permissions... | 21:30 |
| sahib_ | pawky: always am, except today obviously. | 21:30 |
| pawky | sahib_: where did you change it? | 21:31 |
| sahib_ | pawky: chmod 777 * | 21:31 |
| mornfall | clau: actually, depends on what you are asking for | 21:31 |
| pawky | sahib_: don't say / .... | 21:31 |
| sahib_ | in / | 21:31 |
| sahib_ | pawky: but not -R | 21:31 |
| pawky | sahib_: well.. you are a bit lucky then... | 21:31 |
| pawky | is it on your phone? | 21:32 |
| sahib_ | yes | 21:32 |
| clau | if someone can give you the output of ls -l / | 21:32 |
| clau | you are almost saved :) | 21:32 |
| sahib_ | clau: that would be the bomb :-) | 21:32 |
| mornfall | anyway, zzz :) see you around | 21:32 |
| pawky | I second that... | 21:32 |
| pawky | ok.. most is actually 775 | 21:33 |
| pawky | except for... | 21:33 |
| pawky | some (null) files | 21:33 |
| pawky | they are 644 | 21:33 |
| pawky | and... | 21:33 |
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| pawky | Public, Playlist,system,Templates are 755 | 21:34 |
| pawky | sahib_: ^^ | 21:34 |
| sahib_ | pawky: thanks a bunch :-), very much appreciated | 21:34 |
| pawky | sahib_: put a bin paste somewhere of ls -l and il check if you got it right.. | 21:34 |
| pawky | (pastebin) | 21:35 |
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| clau | hehehe, not leaking anything, isn't it pawky ? :P | 21:35 |
| pawky | clau: well... an ls -l in root will not make me hack'em will it? ;-) | 21:35 |
| sahib_ | pawky: sure man, thanks. however, I've not got any (null) files | 21:35 |
| pawky | its probably some garbage left from some upgrade on mine... | 21:36 |
| sahib_ | pawky: I see :-) | 21:36 |
| sahib_ | there might be some discrepancies between our setups then | 21:36 |
| sahib_ | http://pastebin.com/nap4M7WY | 21:37 |
| sahib_ | this is my current / | 21:37 |
| pawky | sahib_: ehh... is that your Jolla phone? | 21:37 |
| sahib_ | sure is. | 21:37 |
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| pawky | sahib_: sorry dude.. i will have to give you my list... hold | 21:38 |
| pawky | sahib_: gave you /home/nemo by accident... | 21:39 |
| pawky | sahib_: hold.. | 21:39 |
| sahib_ | oh, that explains it :-) | 21:39 |
| pawky | sahib_: pastebin.com/KFSEZg33 | 21:40 |
| sahib_ | pawky: you're a lifesaver dude :-). thanks again | 21:41 |
| pawky | sahib_: your welcome | 21:41 |
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| pawky | sahib_: I believe in general you would survive by setting / to 755 and still getting it running, in emergencies that is... | 21:43 |
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| stephg | sahib_: you should also be able to repair the perms with some heavy rpm'ing | 21:44 |
| pawky | stephg: heavy, then... | 21:44 |
| sahib_ | stephg: that's fine though, I can replay it without much bother :-) | 21:44 |
| * stephg is just Ring TFM | 21:45 | |
| pawky | stephg: RTFM? | 21:46 |
| pawky | :-) | 21:46 |
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| smokex | :D | 21:46 |
| sahib_ | pawky: I got that manual, and it | 21:47 |
| smokex | TFM should have a disclaimer | 21:47 |
| sahib_ | 's called, "don't do stupid shit" | 21:47 |
| sahib_ | and I didn't read it. | 21:47 |
| smokex | this is linux and I gave you a terminal | 21:47 |
| stephg | sahib_ well yea ;) | 21:47 |
| smokex | don't do stupid shit | 21:47 |
| pawky | sahib_: Maybe they should add "No touchy, touchy" in the forewords ;-) | 21:47 |
| Stskeeps | isn't that what the 'may void your warranty' says? | 21:48 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:48 |
| smokex | :P | 21:48 |
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| pawky | sahib_: Always use full paths, and think thrice ( a new word?) before using -r -R ... | 21:49 |
| smokex | oh I have Sailfish on the N950 | 21:49 |
| sahib_ | pawky: I usually do, what I really shouldn't do is try to fix shit while riding a bumpy bus, while copmletely knackered coming home from work | 21:49 |
| smokex | and I mounted my Harmattan home partition to sailfish's home directory | 21:50 |
| pawky | sahib_: lol | 21:50 |
| pawky | smokex: cool | 21:50 |
| smokex | then I rm -fRed my home for a test | 21:50 |
| smokex | ... | 21:50 |
| smokex | seeing how much of the home dir would be auto generated by the oneshots | 21:51 |
| pawky | smokex: gosh... | 21:51 |
| pawky | smokex: you like to live on the wild side do you... | 21:51 |
| stephg | sahib_: it looks like rpm --setperms will do what you want | 21:51 |
| stephg | do you know just how badly you altered the permissions | 21:52 |
| smokex | eh its ok | 21:52 |
| stephg | as running that on every package... | 21:52 |
| pawky | stephg: I just did his / | 21:52 |
| smokex | I have all the partitions backed up in tars | 21:52 |
| pawky | stephg: so with my pastebin he should be A ok... | 21:52 |
| stephg | cool | 21:52 |
| stephg | as long as he didn't recurse ;) | 21:52 |
| pawky | stephg: he didnt..... i hope... | 21:52 |
| * stephg to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion | 21:53 | |
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| pawky | well... haven't we all accidentally done a rm -rf / at some point in our lives? .... B-) | 21:54 |
| Eztran | Y'know, you'd think nobody would ever do it, but... yeah. | 21:54 |
| smokex | for (i=1; i < 1; ++i) { cout() << "infinite recursion/n"; } | 21:54 |
| stephg | actually rpm --setperms filesystem shouldn't do any harm | 21:54 |
| stephg | (famous last words) | 21:54 |
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| pawky | lol | 21:55 |
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| pawky | I have seen grown men cry.... honestly... | 21:56 |
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| smokex | I rm -fR-ed my pronz!!! :(( | 21:56 |
| Eztran | I've made interesting growling noises after realising, after rm -rf'ing a directory, that I'd forgotten to unmount a drive from in it. | 21:57 |
| stephg | photorec | 21:57 |
| smokex | which is what I did | 21:57 |
| stephg | I say again, photorec | 21:57 |
| Eztran | stephg: Yup. Very yup. | 21:57 |
| stephg | :) | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | i was moving my backup hd from one building to another, while remaking the file server | 21:58 |
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| pawky | well my rm -rf / experience actually quickly ended after it deleted /bin and the very command rm .... | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | it broke out of the plastic bag and landed on the concrete street.. | 21:58 |
| pawky | so not to much of harm done to be honest... | 21:58 |
| stephg | ick | 21:58 |
| Eztran | Yeah, the computer tends to hang midway through commiting suicide-by-rm. | 21:58 |
| javispedro | Eztran: obviously the fault of those modern new-fangled desktop environments | 21:59 |
| Eztran | Almost, yeah... it should work 'til rebooting, right? ;) | 21:59 |
| pawky | quote "It's a passing thing"... | 21:59 |
| javispedro | during the times rm -rf / was actually a problem (ie back before the Fedora patch that prohibited it) | 22:00 |
| javispedro | I remember that Gnome2 would stay fully up during the adventure | 22:00 |
| pawky | javispedro: isnt that limit just an alias ? | 22:01 |
| javispedro | pawky: no, it's hardcoded into binutils | 22:01 |
| javispedro | pawky: obviously, I don't encourage you to try. | 22:01 |
| stephg | javispedro: really? | 22:01 |
| pawky | stephg: I know debian had it in alias | 22:01 |
| stephg | re: the hardcoding I mean | 22:01 |
| javispedro | *coreutils | 22:01 |
| kelvan | added log to firstone installation problem post: https://together.jolla.com/question/15895/firstone-installation/ i'm quite disappointed by the toh bugs :( | 22:02 |
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| javispedro | stephg: pawky: --no-preserve-root argument | 22:02 |
| stephg | ah | 22:03 |
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| pawky | javispedro: I wonder how many sysops will put the --preserve-root ... ever ? | 22:04 |
| javispedro | it's a default | 22:04 |
| pawky | its a bit lke... "i do know what I'm doing, then again... maybe I don't"... | 22:04 |
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| pawky | javispedro: I know... but who would explicitly put it on the CMD | 22:05 |
| Eztran | Well... it's not really the Linux way to stop you doing things entirely, even if you're stupid for even attempting it. | 22:06 |
| javispedro | dunno, why would people use gnome3? there are questions best left answered... | 22:06 |
| javispedro | oops, unanswered :) | 22:06 |
| stephg | ha | 22:06 |
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| Stskeeps | i've tried to use gnome3 twice and each time i've ended up bring up a terminal to start Sailfish for Desktop. | 22:07 |
| pawky | javispedro: because gnome3 is touch screen friendlier? | 22:07 |
| pawky | (if thats a word...) | 22:07 |
| Stskeeps | has anybody ever seen anybody use gnome3 with a touchscreen? | 22:07 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:07 |
| pawky | Stskeeps: me... | 22:07 |
| pawky | Stskeeps: but it's not complete.. | 22:08 |
| FireFly | Stskeeps: Sailfish for Desktop, you say | 22:08 |
| javispedro | it ain't complete until every application is indistinguishable from google Chrome | 22:08 |
| sahib_ | stephg: hah, still no recursion :-) | 22:08 |
| stephg | sahib_: hopefully you won't need to send your phone to Finland | 22:09 |
| pawky | sahib_: recurse makes you curse.... | 22:09 |
| sahib_ | so the story goes... | 22:09 |
| pawky | maybe recurse is a curse? :-D | 22:09 |
| pawky | "recurse your way to hell..." | 22:09 |
| sahib_ | almost done with this permission business, will give it the old salute and reboot it soon | 22:09 |
| Eztran | Recursion makes you curse again. Re-cursing. | 22:09 |
| pawky | Eztran: Stealing my pun are you... | 22:10 |
| pawky | or maybe you are iron man, steeling things... B-) | 22:10 |
| Eztran | That's worse. | 22:11 |
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| stephg | if I had a nickel for every time someone made a bad pun here... | 22:12 |
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| Quu | you would have nickel back? | 22:13 |
| javispedro | actually two out of every two computing language experts argues iteration is bad, recursion is good. | 22:13 |
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| stephg | right bed time, gnight folks, catch you in the morning | 22:14 |
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| pawky | stephg: don't let the code bugs bite.. | 22:14 |
| pawky | I'll think my jokes are getting dusty.... | 22:15 |
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| slate | date and weekday in this screenshot makes me think http://cdn.redmondpie.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/BeG-LEfCAAI58o7.png | 22:22 |
| slate | just a hoxhox or a "accidental" leak? | 22:22 |
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| pawky | slate: leak for what? | 22:26 |
| * ShadowJK notices dual sim | 22:28 | |
| pawky | Notice: dual picture? | 22:28 |
| slate | calendar date.. | 22:28 |
| slate | 25. tuesday | 22:29 |
| slate | 25.2. is tuesday | 22:29 |
| slate | http://www.mobileworldcongress.com/ | 22:29 |
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| javispedro | slate: interesting. it's indeed nokia's keynote day. | 22:31 |
| slate | yup | 22:31 |
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| pawky | slate: interesting... | 22:37 |
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| alight | lol. enjoying just typing jolla-gallery into the terminal via ssh and see the app pop up on the phone | 22:45 |
| slate | can I play some music via terminal? | 22:50 |
| slate | or a sound | 22:50 |
| slate | would be great when the phone gets lost at home | 22:50 |
| slate | ;) | 22:50 |
| special | yes | 22:51 |
| slate | "ping" and my pocket says "pong" | 22:51 |
| special | for amusement: pkcon install libngf-client | 22:52 |
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| special | ngf-client, then "play ringtone" | 22:52 |
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| slate | does not play when silenced, diem | 22:54 |
| alight | yeah! | 22:54 |
| alight | I'm enjoying myself way to much | 22:55 |
| sahib_ | pawky: managed to reboot successfully! again, cheers! | 22:55 |
| pawky | sahib_: you are welcome :-) | 22:55 |
| FireFly | slate: you remind me of when I lost the N900 and sshd to it and turned volume up and played a music file | 22:55 |
| FireFly | hmm, or did I | 22:56 |
| FireFly | maybe I just turned vibration on from /sys, I don't really remember | 22:56 |
| FireFly | useful, anyway | 22:56 |
| slate | yes | 22:56 |
| pawky | FireFly: interesting thing to do if someone steals your phone B-) | 22:56 |
| FireFly | Well, if someone steals your phone you probably won't be able to reach it anymore | 22:57 |
| pawky | FireFly: depends, if you have 3g data on.. | 22:57 |
| pawky | and an openvpn tunnel by example | 22:57 |
| FireFly | I don't know of any carrier that gives you an external IP | 22:57 |
| FireFly | Well yes, but you'd have to prepare for it on the phone in advance :P | 22:58 |
| pawky | FireFly: well you can have a vpn client on it... | 22:58 |
| slate | FireFly: i know one. | 22:58 |
| slate | in finland | 22:58 |
| pawky | slate: me to, in sweden | 22:58 |
| FireFly | Which one? | 22:58 |
| slate | Sonera | 22:58 |
| pawky | and norway | 22:59 |
| slate | Telia | 22:59 |
| FireFly | Huh. | 22:59 |
| pawky | Telenor | 22:59 |
| slate | different apn from normal though | 22:59 |
| FireFly | I'm fairly sure I get behind a NAT, and I have a Telenor subscription | 22:59 |
| FireFly | oh | 22:59 |
| pawky | slate: ehh.. what is "normal" ? | 22:59 |
| slate | internet | 22:59 |
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| slate | different is prointernet | 23:00 |
| FireFly | I have something cheap, 99 SEK/month | 23:00 |
| FireFly | so I guess that's why | 23:00 |
| pawky | FireFly: exactly | 23:00 |
| pawky | FireFly: pay more, get more :-) | 23:00 |
| FireFly | But hey, what do I care, AFAIK I still don't have any monthly limits | 23:00 |
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| pawky | FireFly: when did you buy it? | 23:01 |
| FireFly | well, when I bought the N900 | 23:01 |
| FireFly | so maybe three years ago or something, I don't really remember | 23:01 |
| pawky | FireFly: no the subscripton | 23:01 |
| FireFly | Yes, I bought the subscription at the same time | 23:01 |
| pawky | FireFly: then you might have unlimited | 23:02 |
| FireFly | It was unlimited when I bought it, I don't know if they've sneakily changed things since then | 23:02 |
| pawky | FireFly: They haven't | 23:02 |
| slate | usually they do | 23:02 |
| slate | :) | 23:02 |
| FireFly | Nice | 23:02 |
| pawky | FireFly: or... well they have... post easter | 23:02 |
| pawky | FireFly: but not on existing subscriptions | 23:02 |
| Eztran | Welp, you guys have reminded me I was supposed to be looking for a replacement contract. | 23:04 |
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| * pahartik changed mobile network data provider immediately when "DNA finland" moved non-data-only customers behind IPv4 NAT | 23:27 | |
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| * pahartik did not want to change IPv6 tunnel from "protocol 41" to inferior one that would pass IPv4 NAT | 23:29 | |
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