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| bennypr0fane | find it on Jollatides | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| bennypr0fane | keywords "battery life, nfc chip" prolly | 00:00 |
| Pnuu | pawky: https://together.jolla.com/question/597/fix-power-consumption-other-half/ | 00:00 |
| pawky | ahh.. i can finally see the sailfish in that logo :-D | 00:01 |
| Pnuu | check the answer by petros | 00:01 |
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| bennypr0fane | guys does anyone still have the screen protector on? | 00:04 |
| Tatuus | i do =) | 00:04 |
| pawky | Pnuu: reading at best :-) | 00:04 |
| bennypr0fane | bcs I do, and I'm very much not satisfied with display precision and responsiveness | 00:04 |
| bennypr0fane | i've had incidents of like 5 attempts of double-tap to wake | 00:05 |
| Tatuus | i take it off when i have some sort of case for the phone to my belt etc | 00:05 |
| pawky | Pnuu: where do I find wget and cpan to install? | 00:05 |
| pawky | Pnuu: they are obviously not in the standard repos... :-( | 00:05 |
| bennypr0fane | and in browser, some links actually respond to tapping an area *beside* them | 00:06 |
| Tatuus | yep, benny, and writing an sms... | 00:06 |
| bennypr0fane | ...so Iw as wondering whether taking of the protection would help with this problem | 00:06 |
| bennypr0fane | Tatuus, oooh yes, that | 00:06 |
| Pnuu | pawky: use curl -O as a wget workaround | 00:06 |
| pawky | and cpan? | 00:07 |
| Pnuu | what's that?-) | 00:07 |
| bennypr0fane | do you guys think the screen will be more responsive if I take it off? | 00:07 |
| Pnuu | bennypr0fane: https://together.jolla.com/question/2893/bug-double-tap-did-not-unlock-properly/ | 00:07 |
| Pnuu | happens to me quite ofthen, too | 00:07 |
| pawky | Pnuu: perl repo? :-) | 00:08 |
| Eztran | neildk's OpenRepos, er, repo, has wget. (also, some nice other CLI tools) | 00:08 |
| Pnuu | bennypr0fane: I guess it got a bit better, and the protector started to peel off anyways | 00:08 |
| special | pawky: perl-CPAN is available. | 00:08 |
| Pnuu | pawky: oh, yeah, that.. no idea if it's available | 00:08 |
| Tatuus | protector on mine also wanting to come off already | 00:08 |
| special | pawky: it's in mer-core. | 00:08 |
| bennypr0fane | Pnuu, thanks, but that's not it. It actually remained asleep always. just refused to wake up. the gesture is not working reliably | 00:09 |
| bennypr0fane | Pnuu, you're like the link-finding master though :-) | 00:09 |
| Pnuu | bennypr0fane: how about this? https://together.jolla.com/question/6096/double-tap-occasionally-fails-to-wake-device/ | 00:09 |
| Tatuus | have you updated benny? latest is called Maadajärvi | 00:09 |
| Pnuu | seems to be duplicates.. | 00:09 |
| Tatuus | my double-tab to wake up the phone works tiptop | 00:10 |
| Pnuu | ah, no, not exactly duplicates | 00:10 |
| bennypr0fane | Tatuus, yes, I have Maadajärvi, still have that problem | 00:11 |
| bennypr0fane | Pnuu yes, that's the exact one | 00:12 |
| bennypr0fane | not duplicates | 00:12 |
| Tatuus | it must be that protector though, benny, and maybe your touch is more gentle than mine :-) | 00:12 |
| Pnuu | now, sleep | 00:14 |
| bennypr0fane | Tatuus, so you are gonna keep using one, yes? | 00:15 |
| Tatuus | using the protector? not long now... it's coming off by itself | 00:15 |
| bennypr0fane | interesting, mine is like super-glued to the display | 00:17 |
| bennypr0fane | the reason I use it is only bcs somehow it doesn't get greasy, you can't see the usual greasy swipe-marks | 00:18 |
| Tatuus | BTW, i thought to fill my 1st Other Half with most not-so-easy to memorize linux commands with a magic marker :-) | 00:18 |
| bennypr0fane | Tatuus, haha, you could make custom one complete with man pages :-D | 00:19 |
| Tatuus | Terminal can save one from alot of trouble indeed, when in the know what to do | 00:19 |
| bennypr0fane | Tatuus, ...and can get you into a lot of trouble as well | 00:20 |
| Tatuus | Yes i forgot... -when i started with Linux, i made couple of terrible mistakes :D | 00:21 |
| pawky | chem|st: I am starting to get the hang of it now, regarding the swype and all... :-) | 00:21 |
| mtd | sorry for the dumb question, but is there an easy way to develop apps on the device? As in something like: 1) clone https://github.com/amarchen/helloworld-pro-sailfish on the device; 2) pkcon sdk-setup ...; 3) emacs-24.1-nox .../<something>.qml ; 4) launch app from Home; 5) goto 3) | 00:21 |
| pawky | and its just soooo cool, having perl on the phone :-D | 00:21 |
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| bennypr0fane | Tatuus, just a couple? | 00:23 |
| Tatuus | Just a couple, yep, i wasn't all blindly rushing to things after the first big mistake :D | 00:24 |
| bennypr0fane | on the N900, I've created a mess quite a few times. I tend to just try things | 00:24 |
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| bennypr0fane | not blindly, but short-sightedly *g* | 00:25 |
| bennypr0fane | gotta go. ahoi! | 00:25 |
| Tatuus | g'night | 00:25 |
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| alight | (late) bennypr0fane: "everybody calls different things intuitive" word up | 00:26 |
| alight | http://www.asktog.com/papers/raskinintuit.html | 00:26 |
| Eztran | You managed to respond like 30 seconds after he left. :) | 00:26 |
| alight | aaaarrrrr | 00:26 |
| alight | had to read up. and I read slow | 00:27 |
| Tatuus | i find the gesture of closing an app and finally the display, swipe from up - down, really cool for some reason :) | 00:27 |
| alight | there has been a lot of research about these kind of things, if you know where to look | 00:28 |
| alight | still waiting for my jolla though, so can't see how it holds up to the N9 quite yet | 00:29 |
| Tatuus | it's really good, i love it, and remember, it's still on beta i think | 00:29 |
| alight | is the social feed still in there? | 00:30 |
| alight | hi by the way | 00:31 |
| Tatuus | you gotta get bunch of stuff from the store after you got it going 1st time | 00:31 |
| Tatuus | like calendar etc... | 00:31 |
| Tatuus | and yea, hi :) | 00:32 |
| Tatuus | what i installed right away from Aptoide or Yandex, and work like charm (android compatibility): Spotify, Bambuser, Instagram, K-9 Mail.... | 00:34 |
| alight | cool | 00:34 |
| alight | I need spotify, would be hard to live without | 00:34 |
| Tatuus | Twitter, Opera, Firefox, Yaaic (irc) | 00:35 |
| Tatuus | Yes, same here | 00:35 |
| alight | when they announced spotify would get to N9 it was a no brainer | 00:35 |
| alight | ended up with three different spotify clients ;D | 00:35 |
| Tatuus | i recommend that Yaaic for irc client for now on Jolla, it's very clear and works like it should | 00:36 |
| alight | I'll remember to check it out. My order hasn't been picked yet though. it's three weeks tomorrow and still not event sent from jolla :( | 00:36 |
| Tatuus | not everything (yet) work right on thru that android compatibility mode | 00:36 |
| Tatuus | Maybe to email them? I bet they're workin' their asses off with deliveries and updates and whatnot though | 00:38 |
| alight | it says 3-4 weeks in the shop, so they have not broken any promises yet | 00:40 |
| Tatuus | aww yes, right | 00:40 |
| alight | need to get some sleep now though | 00:40 |
| Tatuus | nighty | 00:40 |
| alight | cya | 00:40 |
| bara | how does this google doc with the listed orders work? just add my order in a new line? | 00:43 |
| pawky | where are all the files you download by bluetooth located? | 00:43 |
| pawky | oh... they get put in different directories depending on extention :-) | 00:44 |
| Tatuus | pawky, i use search (esxtension) usualy when i can't find | 00:44 |
| Tatuus | simple "apk" finds quickly all the .apk's | 00:45 |
| Tatuus | since i didn't find downloads which i made with FireFox.. | 00:46 |
| pawky | Tatuus: duh, firefox? cannot find that one on the Jolla store... | 00:49 |
| Tatuus | get it from Yandex | 00:50 |
| pawky | uh.... that must be a rather slow solution... | 00:50 |
| Tatuus | not at all | 00:52 |
| petantik | ssh/mosh+tmux+weechat | 00:52 |
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| covox | interesting, msyncd and timed-qt5 are fighting for supremacy of all the phone's CPU time | 04:03 |
| covox | one of them is spawning those "Problem with connection" banners every second | 04:03 |
| covox | ok it's all timed-qt5 now :) | 04:05 |
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| atlaz | Merry friday and a happy weekend | 05:59 |
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| Sidde | atlaz: o yes. only a day's work until the alcohol intake begins | 06:34 |
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| Turski | begins? | 06:37 |
| Turski | thursday was already | 06:37 |
| Sidde | Turski: true, but the count resets every morning | 06:37 |
| Turski | Sidde: didn't sleep last night... | 06:38 |
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| Sidde | Turski: you're in for a long day today then? | 06:38 |
| Turski | Sidde: student parties are at thursdays and friday school day starts at 8:15 | 06:38 |
| Turski | ;) | 06:38 |
| Sidde | in those days... | 06:39 |
| Turski | i'm not very interested about the topic of lesson at the moment though | 06:39 |
| Sidde | haha | 06:39 |
| Turski | but at least it was fun night last night | 06:40 |
| Sidde | it can't be unhealthy if it's fun | 06:40 |
| Turski | yeah | 06:41 |
| tbr | heh | 06:42 |
| * tbr gets to have fun with some students today. A new load of internationals arrived and I promised to put them through the paces. | 06:42 | |
| Turski | tbr: which land/city? | 06:43 |
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| tbr | Turski: at TTY | 06:43 |
| Turski | tbr: oh, i'm at TAMK | 06:43 |
| tbr | well I'm not a student anymore, since 3 years | 06:44 |
| tbr | but I still help the international club | 06:44 |
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| tbr | I live across the street anyway | 06:44 |
| Turski | tbr: btw, did you have something to do with fingerterm? | 06:44 |
| tbr | that was my colleague: Hq` | 06:45 |
| Turski | specifically why bash doesn't work correctly with fingerterm | 06:45 |
| * tbr only uses it | 06:45 | |
| Turski | tbr: i were told you had a theory about it | 06:45 |
| tbr | there seem to be some corners, yes | 06:45 |
| Turski | tbr: and i partially solved it | 06:45 |
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| tbr | it burps on small font settings and folds wrong | 06:46 |
| Turski | tbr: i were talking about bash invocation | 06:46 |
| Turski | tbr: .bashrc and so on | 06:46 |
| tbr | ah, you mean why it behaves different than the bash in the ssh session? | 06:46 |
| Turski | tbr: yep | 06:47 |
| Turski | tbr: doesn't load .bashrc | 06:47 |
| Jope | I was looking at that yesterday | 06:47 |
| Jope | not all of the interactivity requirements for bash are satisfied when it is launched from lipstick.. I didn't verify, but my guess is the isatty() calls for the filehandles for stderr and stdin fail | 06:48 |
| Turski | tbr, Jope i investigated that for quite many hours day before yesterday | 06:48 |
| Jope | the easiest way to make it happy was to invoke a shell to launch the shell | 06:48 |
| Turski | tbr Jope: see that https://together.jolla.com/question/5561/make-fingertermbash-startup-execute-standard-profilebashrc-scripts/?answer=12285#post-id-12285 | 06:49 |
| Jope | yes | 06:49 |
| Jope | that post inspired me to look into the code | 06:49 |
| Turski | Jope: yeah, that's me | 06:49 |
| Jope | thanks for the inspiration :-) | 06:49 |
| tbr | :) | 06:49 |
| Turski | i was annoyed why it doesn't work | 06:49 |
| Jope | I was running the newer silica based version on my device and it no longer worked with your solution | 06:49 |
| Jope | hence I had to fix it elsewhere | 06:49 |
| tbr | ooo, silica version :D | 06:50 |
| Jope | let's see if thp pulls it in or if my code was deemed too shitty | 06:50 |
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| Turski | but problem is that invoker sets POSIXLY:CORRECT and doesn't clear it | 06:50 |
| Jope | that is part of the problem | 06:50 |
| Jope | but at least in the version I was running, it wasn't enough | 06:50 |
| Jope | when I unset it in the code, it still didn't work | 06:50 |
| Turski | that's true for me too | 06:50 |
| Turski | on jolla device | 06:50 |
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| Jope | to me it seems that the problem is that the fingerterm process doesn't have a valid tty | 06:51 |
| Jope | yet it gets execed to a shell | 06:51 |
| Jope | so the shell will never be happy | 06:51 |
| Turski | i just don't understand why it's a problem | 06:51 |
| Jope | if (forced_interactive || /* -i flag */ | 06:51 |
| Jope | (!command_execution_string && /* No -c command and ... */ | 06:51 |
| Jope | wordexp_only == 0 && /* No --wordexp and ... */ | 06:51 |
| Jope | ((arg_index == argc) || /* no remaining args or... */ | 06:51 |
| Jope | read_from_stdin) && /* -s flag with args, and */ | 06:51 |
| Jope | isatty (fileno (stdin)) && /* Input is a terminal and */ | 06:51 |
| Jope | isatty (fileno (stderr)))) /* error output is a terminal. */ | 06:51 |
| Jope | init_interactive (); | 06:51 |
| Jope | because of that | 06:51 |
| Jope | I may be mistaken, but this is how it seems to me | 06:51 |
| Jope | I didn't bother debugging bash there but that's basically the only thing that really can fail | 06:52 |
| Turski | would kinda make sense | 06:52 |
| Jope | posixly correct is half of the solution | 06:52 |
| Turski | but doesn't explain why it fails when launched with invoker? | 06:52 |
| Jope | and sh -c "exec bash -l" was the second half | 06:52 |
| Jope | invoker doesn't give it a real tty? | 06:53 |
| Jope | is what I've been trying to say | 06:53 |
| Jope | so it will fail | 06:53 |
| Turski | but why would fingerterm need tty? | 06:53 |
| Jope | it doesn't | 06:53 |
| Jope | but the shell it execs does | 06:53 |
| Jope | and that shell gets the tty only after it has been execed | 06:53 |
| Jope | again I may be mistaken, but this is what it looked like | 06:53 |
| Turski | isn't it fingerterm's job to create the tty for shell? | 06:53 |
| Jope | it is | 06:53 |
| Jope | and it does | 06:54 |
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| Jope | but the shell is invoked first, then the tty gets passed to it | 06:54 |
| Turski | so "isatty (fileno (stdin)) &&" makes the problem? | 06:55 |
| Turski | or triggers it | 06:55 |
| Turski | or... | 06:55 |
| Jope | y | 06:55 |
| Turski | i see | 06:55 |
| Turski | Jope: btw, are you a sailor? | 06:56 |
| Jope | y | 06:56 |
| Turski | good | 06:56 |
| Jope | in case some real guru is interested in looking into this, I'd love to hear whether my deduction was right | 06:56 |
| Jope | I used some hours with this too yesterday | 06:56 |
| Turski | yes, i'm not a real guru | 06:56 |
| Turski | just fixed it for me | 06:56 |
| Jope | didn't mean to imply anything about your guruness there :-) | 06:57 |
| Turski | i'm just saying that | 06:57 |
| Turski | i have no much experience with that stuff | 06:57 |
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| Turski | i've just been using linux as my main OS for about 9 years | 06:58 |
| pawky|3 | Turski, yeah thats really a short time span... | 06:58 |
| Turski | i started using linux when i was 13 years old or so | 06:59 |
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| pawky|3 | Turski, its not about the years, but rather what you have accomplished... ;-) | 07:01 |
| Sidde | pawky|3: it's about how much money you have made on your linux experience ;) | 07:03 |
| pawky|3 | Sidde: Nah, we are always underpaid and under apreciated... ;-) | 07:04 |
| Sidde | more money = more linux-toys = more fun | 07:04 |
| pawky|3 | Sidde: being poor makes you hungry and striving. :-) | 07:05 |
| pawky|3 | why is networkmanager still such a crappy app... work damn you work!! give me a "#¤! ip on usb0 | 07:05 |
| Sidde | my jolla phone is going to incorporate linux into my boat. So i can have even more fun when sailing | 07:06 |
| pawky|3 | Sidde: :-) | 07:06 |
| entil | is it possible to change the keyboard? like, is there an api for keyboard input and a setting for which app it uses? | 07:07 |
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| jayaura | Greetings everyone. After going through a variety of resources on the net about jolla, my question is, is this open hardware ? | 07:12 |
| tbr | by most definitions probably no | 07:13 |
| pawky|3 | tbr: second that | 07:13 |
| jayaura | tbr, so only the software part is open, right ? | 07:13 |
| tbr | most of the software on it is open source though and interesting interfaces on the hardware are accessible and documented | 07:13 |
| Sidde | not all software is open source though | 07:14 |
| jayaura | tbr, okay | 07:14 |
| jayaura | Sidde, you mean the firmware, right? like wifi and stuff | 07:14 |
| Sidde | the sailfish ui | 07:14 |
| tbr | graphics drivers | 07:14 |
| tbr | modem drivers | 07:14 |
| tbr | although the higher parts of the telephony stack are open | 07:15 |
| tbr | I thought the silica parts were being open sourced? | 07:15 |
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| jayaura | Sidde, Sailfish UI ? I dont get it, sailfish being open, why would the UI be closed? whats the whole point then ? | 07:16 |
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| pawky|3 | tbr: that sounds like you are thinking about Openmoko... | 07:17 |
| Sidde | jayaura: i have no idea why. It's very disappointing to say the least | 07:18 |
| jayaura | pawky, i know openmoko was a failure. Is that the reason for this partially closed nature ? | 07:18 |
| Sidde | jayaura: maybe they have uses source code that is not open... | 07:18 |
| pawky|3 | Jayaura: nah, in my oppinion (who oned one A02) it was about having hardware problems with the microphone... | 07:19 |
| tehdely | what aspects of sailfish are closed | 07:19 |
| tbr | Sidde: if you are looking for totally open hardware/software, then this is not for you | 07:19 |
| tehdely | aside from the baseband, obvs | 07:19 |
| Sidde | tbr: true. but it is marketed as open source which is a bit misleading | 07:19 |
| tehdely | baseband is never open. NSA/GCHQ has gotta stash their nastiness somewhere ;) | 07:19 |
| pawky|3 | jayaura: they do have newer versions though, if not misstaken.... | 07:19 |
| Sidde | tbr: it's like apple saying osx is open source... | 07:19 |
| tbr | Sidde: open source != open hardware | 07:19 |
| tbr | and most of the OS is open source | 07:20 |
| Sidde | tbr: silica is not open source... | 07:20 |
| tehdely | apple doesn't pass OS X off as open source. they just point out that they use a lot of it | 07:20 |
| Sidde | tehdely: indeed | 07:20 |
| tbr | Sidde: which is a tiny part and it IS being open sourced AFAIU | 07:20 |
| jayaura | tehdely, so will the UI be open eventually | 07:20 |
| pawky|3 | jayaura: I owned an Openmoko for 2 years, and succeded with 0.5 phonecalls on it (the person couldn't hear me well enough... | 07:20 |
| tehdely | so anyhow what of sailfish is NOT currently free/OSS? | 07:20 |
| tbr | Sidde: I'd recommend to look at the OS architecture to get an idea how much is open source | 07:20 |
| tehdely | jayaura: that i don't know. i'd certainly like to find out | 07:21 |
| Sidde | tbr: yes, i know. I'm just saying that everything is not open | 07:21 |
| tbr | tehdely: hw-adaptation, android runtime, some 3rd party parts, some UI bits. not much really if you look at the whole | 07:21 |
| tbr | Sidde: and I said, that if you look for 100% open then this is not for you. (and good luck finding such a thing, the last few % become insanely hard) | 07:22 |
| Sidde | tbr: i know. That is why i settled with jolla/sailfish instead of buing a linux-arm board with all sensors needed | 07:23 |
| tehdely | are the individual jolla applications (phone, calendar, etc.) OSS? | 07:23 |
| tehdely | i ask because i'm interested in hacking on some of them at some point | 07:23 |
| jayaura | tbr, indeed, but the only place where you need to be closed would the firmware related space. If UI is closed, how can someone be sure that NSA doesnt have a hand in this ? | 07:24 |
| tehdely | jayaura: the NSA has better places to stash their shit than the UI | 07:24 |
| tbr | +1 | 07:24 |
| stephg | yup | 07:24 |
| tehdely | find me a shipping 3G-or-greater phone with an open baseband firmware | 07:24 |
| tehdely | you won't | 07:24 |
| tbr | exactly | 07:24 |
| tehdely | that is where everything awful will be found | 07:24 |
| tehdely | the ability to track you without your consent, activate your microphone, etc. etc. | 07:25 |
| tehdely | it's way down the stack :) | 07:25 |
| tehdely | somewhere even your vendor can't touch | 07:25 |
| jayaura | tehdely, yes I get it :) | 07:25 |
| tbr | the baseband CPUs have become quite powerful, and they usually share the _full_ memory address space with the regular CPU | 07:25 |
| pawky|3 | tehdely: I think its doable, if being persistent enough... | 07:25 |
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| pawky|3 | tehdely: in the end its in the firmware.... | 07:26 |
| tehdely | yes | 07:26 |
| tbr | pawky|3: which means you have to go with hardware that's at least 2 generations behind | 07:26 |
| tbr | but yes, if that's acceptable | 07:26 |
| tehdely | and the reason they can get away with it there, is because there's only a handful of baseband implementations made by a handful of companies . and they're all compromised out the door. they wouldn't get the necessary certifications (FCC, etc.) if they weren't. | 07:26 |
| pawky|3 | tbr: no, but with a phone you can fetch and upload firmware | 07:26 |
| tbr | pawky|3: if such doesn't exist as open source, you're at square 1 again | 07:27 |
| tehdely | if you want an uncompromised phone, you can probably put together one that's GSM-only. i'm pretty sure there's straight-up GSM chipsets you can bolt onto a gumstix | 07:27 |
| jayaura | pawky, I think you also need 7 digit money to get into the list for making gsm layer 1 | 07:27 |
| tehdely | and then you're only being spied on via the network | 07:27 |
| pawky|3 | tbr: no... its just called reverse engineering :-) | 07:27 |
| tbr | pawky|3: show me a fully RE'd 3G chipset, NOW | 07:27 |
| tbr | pawky|3: my point being is that RE takes time, hence you loose at least one or two generations of hw due to time | 07:28 |
| tbr | most people conveniently ignore that | 07:28 |
| jayaura | tbr, as if you will build a phone now if you got an open 3g chipset :D | 07:28 |
| tehdely | yep. that's the compromise you have to accept. being a little stuck in the past | 07:28 |
| pawky|3 | tbr: that might be, it depends upon the crowd working with it, but it IS fully doable | 07:28 |
| tehdely | think of the gluglug x60s laptop | 07:28 |
| tehdely | the FSF certified it as being 100% Free | 07:29 |
| sharpneli | In practice RE takes more time than just taking the specs into your own hands and just making a new implementation. | 07:29 |
| tehdely | but they achieve that by taking a machine old enough that they can work out its nooks and crannies | 07:29 |
| tehdely | and support it with a free BIOS | 07:29 |
| pawky|3 | tbr: thats actually the part I miss when switching away from Windows... :'( | 07:29 |
| pawky|3 | tbr: you never need to RE any software when using linux... :'( | 07:30 |
| tbr | pawky|3: join the XDA forums, they like to binary patch stuff (instead of recompiling it) | 07:30 |
| pawky|3 | tbr: I know :-) | 07:31 |
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| tbr | bbl, time to head to the orkplace | 07:31 |
| pawky|3 | tbr: cool! a place full of orks :-) | 07:32 |
| sharpneli | Need moar dakka! | 07:32 |
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| pawky|3 | sharpneli: ok here you are: "dakka, dakka,dakka,dakka...." ;-) | 07:33 |
| sharpneli | tbr: I'd truly wish the graphics drivers in Jolla would be updateable. It doesn't matter if they are closed source but as long as the manufacturer would bother to allow people to upgrade their drivers :E | 07:34 |
| sharpneli | The HW supports OpenGL ES 3.0. The driver version in Jolla is so ancient that it doesn't support it yet :( | 07:34 |
| tbr | pawky|3: yup, just in case I take my Ogre-slaying-knife (+9 against ogres), maybe they work with orks too | 07:34 |
| pawky|3 | tbr: LOL | 07:35 |
| Turski | pawky|3: well, i've accomplised at least that: http://turski.dy.fi/foo/curses_ei_nain.png | 07:35 |
| tbr | sharpneli: try it, but make sure that you can do factory reset from recovery first... | 07:35 |
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| sharpneli | tbr: Any idea if it's going to require changes to the kernel? | 07:37 |
| Stskeeps | probably will require a new kgsl | 07:37 |
| Stskeeps | the real problem would be that the drivers that are available are the ones in AOSP which has funny licensing | 07:37 |
| tehdely | won't someone think of the children | 07:38 |
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| sharpneli | Funny in what way? They are for personal use only or? | 07:38 |
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| Stskeeps | sharpneli: yeah, well, i'm not a lawyer | 07:39 |
| Stskeeps | in our case we get a package from ODM and that's pretty much it + bug fixes in terms of upgradeability | 07:39 |
| sharpneli | Me neither. I've never ever understood the manufacturers who place limits like that. | 07:39 |
| sharpneli | Yeah | 07:40 |
| pawky|3 | Now this is really crappy, why does usb0 get an directly when plugin in my N9 in dev mode, but not the Jolla??? | 07:40 |
| pawky|3 | with networkmanager... | 07:40 |
| Turski | pawky|3: huh? | 07:40 |
| sharpneli | Desktop world is refreshing compared to mobile. AMD/Nvidia/Intel provide the drivers to everyone. Because they are useful only if you have their HW so what's the harm in distributing them? | 07:40 |
| pawky|3 | Turski: huh, like huh that sounds strange, or, huh what is usb0? ;-) | 07:41 |
| Turski | pawky|3: huh about what N9 gets automatically? | 07:42 |
| Turski | ip? | 07:42 |
| pawky|3 | Turski, well the N9 doen't get anything, but Networkmanager gives the usb0 connection an ip address when plugin in the N9, but refuses for the Jolla | 07:42 |
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| Turski | ah, so it's networkmanager stuff | 07:43 |
| pawky|3 | Turski: In a way.... but its also Jolla versus N9 | 07:43 |
| Turski | i'm using only dhcpcd on my desktop and netctl on my laptop | 07:43 |
| pawky|3 | Turski: I cannot see the difference between these two connections to be honest, both will be usb networking... | 07:44 |
| Turski | pawky|3: is there dhcp running on N9 then? | 07:45 |
| pawky|3 | Turski: I certainly belive so, but not on the Jolla as it doesn't give me any IP... :-( | 07:46 |
| Turski | that would explain it | 07:46 |
| Turski | yes, there's no dhcp on jolla | 07:46 |
| pawky|3 | Turski, but why isnt it running by default then??? | 07:46 |
| pawky|3 | Turski: ehh.. why not? | 07:46 |
| Turski | that's a good question | 07:46 |
| pawky|3 | Turski: duh, there seem to be no dhcpd to be found?... | 07:49 |
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| Turski | ... | 07:49 |
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| tachikoma | has anyone used SoundEffect in qml apps on jolla? | 07:53 |
| tachikoma | it seems not to be affected by the system volume setting | 07:53 |
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| tachikoma | i just got a notification about a new system update but upon clicking that I am told that the system is up to date ... | 08:41 |
| Stskeeps | yes, it's a bug | 08:41 |
| Stskeeps | we can't time travel to fix it since it's client side | 08:41 |
| tachikoma | np | 08:43 |
| tachikoma | was just confused | 08:43 |
| tachikoma | but you should do time travel enabled development, so much more customer satisfaction with that ;) | 08:43 |
| flux | hmm, they're denying it, so probably jolla is going to have time travel some time soon.. | 08:43 |
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| Stskeeps | flux: i have on occasion wanted that we employ a few time travellers. | 08:44 |
| Stskeeps | it would make the QA process so much easier | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:45 |
| tachikoma | i always have to think of this when it comes to time travel: | 08:45 |
| tachikoma | http://www.tor.com/stories/2011/08/wikihistory | 08:45 |
| sharpneli | How do you know someone is dedicated to his task: First thought about time travel is "QA would be so much easier" | 08:45 |
| Gorith | :D | 08:49 |
| AL13N_work | hehe | 08:51 |
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| ggabriel | morning | 09:20 |
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| ballock | morning! | 09:26 |
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| chem|st | pawky|3: :) | 09:47 |
| chem|st | morning! | 09:47 |
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| netzvieh | is there a possibility to merge contacts? | 10:26 |
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| leinir | netzvieh: you're looking for the term link :) | 10:28 |
| chem|st | how do I get back to a drafted msg? | 10:28 |
| chem|st | netzvieh: pulley-menu -> Link | 10:28 |
| leinir | chem|st: not knowing it, but a wild guess would be swipe to the attached page with folders, guessing there might be a drafts folder? | 10:28 |
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| netzvieh | ah thanks leinir & chem|st | 10:29 |
| chem|st | leinir: ta | 10:29 |
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| leinir | chem|st: you're welcome :) just a guess, but hey :) | 10:31 |
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| chem|st | Stskeeps: longterm... have multiple windows of mail/sms/IM possible... maybe by a setting activatable | 10:31 |
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| Stskeeps | chem|st: good item for together.*, our designers are there | 10:32 |
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| Venemo_j | hey | 10:36 |
| Stskeeps | morn Venemo_j | 10:36 |
| Kiranos_ | Stskeeps: really nice initiative with together, how do jolla feel about it, is it managable or growing to much? | 10:36 |
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| tbr | mooo | 10:36 |
| Stskeeps | Kiranos_: i'll have to ask the hivemind how it feels | 10:36 |
| Venemo_j | moo | 10:36 |
| Stskeeps | Kiranos_: we have our cto, designers there, many other people lurking and reading.. i'd say it's a sucess | 10:37 |
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| chem|st | https://together.jolla.com/question/13085/real-multitasking-for-composing-apps-mail-sms-mms-im-browser/ | 10:41 |
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| Kiranos_ | Stskeeps: nice! | 10:48 |
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| chem|st | https://together.jolla.com/question/13096/bash-completion/ | 10:56 |
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| Kiranos_ | chem|st: yikes must login an upvote that when I get home | 10:58 |
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| chem|st | Kiranos_: it is the jolla login | 11:00 |
| Kiranos_ | yea have it at home | 11:00 |
| Kiranos_ | dont own a jolla | 11:00 |
| chem|st | ah :) | 11:00 |
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| netzvieh | hmm on the bottom of the jolla only the left is loudspeaker & the right is mic? | 11:01 |
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| Morpog_PC | yes | 11:02 |
| ggabriel | netzvieh: one is speaker, the other one is mic, can't remember which is which | 11:02 |
| Stskeeps | one is speaker one is cosmetic | 11:02 |
| netzvieh | oO okay why only cosmetic? | 11:02 |
| ggabriel | because pretty :P | 11:03 |
| netzvieh | okay, i'll give you that, but why not two speakers? | 11:04 |
| ln- | i'd give -1000 to bash-completion if i could | 11:04 |
| ggabriel | complexity, price, etc i'd say | 11:04 |
| clau | netzvieh, let me ask you a better question: why two? :P | 11:04 |
| ggabriel | not sure what a stereo set up would do on a phone tbh | 11:04 |
| ggabriel | just plug in headphones | 11:04 |
| netzvieh | clau: stereo :D | 11:04 |
| clau | when the speakers are 2cm apart? | 11:05 |
| ggabriel | netzvieh: search for dolby stereo or similar and check out the recommended layout of speakers | 11:05 |
| clau | if they'd at least be on sides, it would make sense, but having them both at the bottom with the same orientation would mean you wouldn't even be able to tell if it's stereo or not. | 11:06 |
| netzvieh | clau: maybe my head is just 1.5cm wide? ;) no but yeah theres not really a reason why s1 would need two speakers there | 11:06 |
| clau | :D | 11:06 |
| netzvieh | ln-: why? | 11:07 |
| ggabriel | ln-: i don't like debian-like bash completion either, but not so much ;-) | 11:08 |
| ln- | netzvieh: because it's annoying as hell. requires more manual typing when bash-completion refuses to complete a filename it thinks isn't appropriate for the current context. | 11:09 |
| clau | did anyone receive the poppy red o.h.? | 11:12 |
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| Kiranos_ | ln minus a 1000, cant see why? :) | 11:13 |
| ggabriel | interesting use case: scanning through rss feeds in an active cover, while watching a video on another one. something i wasn't able to do before. nice :-) | 11:13 |
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| Kiranos_ | oh I remember my n900 | 11:14 |
| chem|st | clau: cause you block one speaker when holding the device landscape - for example | 11:15 |
| chem|st | ln-: then it is not properly set up | 11:16 |
| the_mgt | clau: i did | 11:16 |
| clau | chem|st, that's a good point | 11:16 |
| clau | the_mgt, were you announced when it was sent to you? | 11:16 |
| chem|st | clau: poppy red it is... | 11:16 |
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| chem|st | clau: it was shipped with the device | 11:17 |
| dazo | clau: Are you sure it's stereo loudspeakers? I've heard that one of the "grills" is for the loudspeaker while the other one for the microphone ... but I haven't checked the facts myself | 11:17 |
| chem|st | dazo: we are at that point | 11:17 |
| chem|st | dazo: it is single speacker | 11:17 |
| chem|st | speaker | 11:17 |
| the_mgt | clau: was shipped with the device and that was announced | 11:17 |
| dazo | chem|st: the_mgt : some of us got a little paper instead, saying TOH would be shipped later on | 11:17 |
| clau | I only got the device and a promise I will get the poppy red later :| | 11:17 |
| chem|st | the_mgt: announced the day I received it, after I received it... | 11:17 |
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| chem|st | with a trcking number ending with E-14 | 11:18 |
| the_mgt | stereo in mobilephones... shouldn't we have 7.2 thx certified dts by now? matching the fullhd displays... | 11:18 |
| clau | chem|st, happened to me to, but haven't got the extra toh | 11:18 |
| chem|st | clau: out of stock then | 11:18 |
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| clau | *too | 11:18 |
| chem|st | clau: it is nothing that special yet | 11:18 |
| the_mgt | I do not use mine, it is nice to have, but i am a little disappointed | 11:19 |
| chem|st | a hivemind ringtone and some other tunes | 11:19 |
| the_mgt | I'd rather have the light cyan as a color | 11:19 |
| clau | it's not that important, I was just wondering because I'm currently traveling and if they send it there might be noone to get it. | 11:19 |
| chem|st | I actually use it to have a differnet toh on it than my sister | 11:19 |
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| ggabriel | hivemind ringtone sounds cool :) | 11:20 |
| dazo | the_mgt: (7.1/thx/dts) funny! :) | 11:20 |
| clau | as far as I am concerned, these simple toh's are overrated. | 11:20 |
| chem|st | the_mgt: there is yet to come some special features to toh and ambiences | 11:20 |
| clau | replacing them too often isn't a good idea probably. | 11:20 |
| ggabriel | clau: we had somebody yesterday here asking about how to integrate it with their hockey (or some sport) application | 11:20 |
| ggabriel | technically, it's not a big deal, but you can do cool things | 11:21 |
| chem|st | as soon as I am able to order toh I will build a breakout toh and start a kickstarter | 11:21 |
| ggabriel | for technically cool things, check out solar panel, oled display, keyboard :) | 11:21 |
| clau | I'm going to wait for something more functional | 11:21 |
| clau | yep, I've seen the solar panel. pretty cool thingie. | 11:21 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: paperwhite toh would be cool | 11:21 |
| the_mgt | daisy-chainable qwertz/y please | 11:22 |
| clau | I wonder for how many changes is the phone rated. eventually it will get worn out. | 11:22 |
| clau | and while getting a new TOH won't be very expensive, getting a new phone will hurt. | 11:23 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: you mean snow white? yeah, i really like the background | 11:23 |
| the_mgt | i guess the OH will surrender before the phone does | 11:23 |
| chem|st | the_mgt: daisy chain? | 11:23 |
| the_mgt | chem|st: so you can plug another OH on the back of the keyboard | 11:23 |
| chem|st | the_mgt: I do not need multiple qwerty kbds | 11:23 |
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| chem|st | ah yeah that was actually an idea I had in the beginning but it will double the size... | 11:24 |
| chem|st | fat bugger it would be | 11:24 |
| ggabriel | clau: as long as the material of the other half is softer than the material in the main phone, i don't see how the phone will break | 11:24 |
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| the_mgt | chem|st: yes, maybe | 11:25 |
| ggabriel | so basically beware of dodgy other halves | 11:25 |
| chem|st | clau: the clipon system is made to limit wear | 11:25 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st: this instruction might be good and all, but to where am I to copy that system directory? | 11:26 |
| chem|st | and the thing wearing is toh | 11:26 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st http://www.jollatides.com/2013/11/29/jolla-how-to-access-google-play/ | 11:26 |
| chem|st | pawky|3: you copy system to your home/nemo/ | 11:26 |
| clau | chem|st, good to hear | 11:26 |
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| pawky|3 | chem|st aahhh.... RFM error on my side... ;-) | 11:27 |
| chem|st | pawky|3: if you copy and paste the lines be aware of a - -- fault that can happen for the copy command | 11:27 |
| chem|st | and do exactly the way described | 11:28 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st ok | 11:28 |
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| pawky|3 | chem|st "install GooglePlay services to jolla...." like, from Yandex? | 11:34 |
| chem|st | pawky|3: RTFM read again... | 11:35 |
| netzvieh | its a link. klick on it. download apk. install apk := | 11:36 |
| netzvieh | :) | 11:36 |
| chem|st | the "GooglePlay services" is a link | 11:36 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st ohh..... a liiiiiiink...... :-D | 11:36 |
| chem|st | so is the "Google Play Store" | 11:36 |
| chem|st | and do in that order | 11:36 |
| the_mgt | one is an apk, the other a zip, iirc | 11:37 |
| pawky|3 | chem|st: what happened to the good old link underscores, so one could tell the difference?... ;-) | 11:38 |
| netzvieh | pawky: it has another color ;) | 11:38 |
| netzvieh | rather blackish than the light grey :D | 11:38 |
| pawky|3 | netzvieh, may I inform you black is not a color? :-D | 11:39 |
| pawky|3 | Will jolla automatically install downloaded apk's? or do I have to go root on myself? :-) | 11:40 |
| the_mgt | you have to "click" it, but yes, the rest is automatically | 11:41 |
| pawky|3 | the_mgt ahhh there we are ! a play store :-D | 11:42 |
| Venemo_j | why's everyone so interested in the play store? | 11:42 |
| the_mgt | it failed for me a few times while it intransparently downloaded updates, etc | 11:42 |
| Venemo_j | it's just a load of android crap | 11:43 |
| pawky|3 | Venemo_¡ its called, your bank apps.... and Gleeo :-) | 11:43 |
| the_mgt | Venemo_j: out of curiosity. I found most android apps are butt ugly and those I have installed are just so that i might use them sometimes. like vnc, rdp and teamviewer | 11:44 |
| dazo | Venemo_j: several of the services from different companies where I live only publish their stuff in Google Store | 11:44 |
| pawky|3 | dazo: I second that | 11:44 |
| ggabriel | pawky|3: it's interesting that you trust android to run your bank application | 11:44 |
| ggabriel | well, that anybody trusts android to run their bank application... | 11:44 |
| pawky|3 | Until Jolla gets these companies to write a native app, we seem to be stuck having to use android... | 11:44 |
| phdeswer | especially since there are these nice banking apps that save your credentials on the phone... | 11:45 |
| pawky|3 | But I am very happy i can do it in a jolla | 11:45 |
| ggabriel | dunno, i use my laptop for banking | 11:45 |
| dazo | ggabriel: why would a jolla app be safer? | 11:45 |
| ggabriel | and i used my phone's browser in emergencies | 11:45 |
| pawky|3 | phdeswer, to which they have not much use as its one time passwords.. | 11:45 |
| ggabriel | dazo: i never said anything about safe/secure | 11:45 |
| ggabriel | i'm talking about trust :) | 11:45 |
| pawky|3 | ggabriel: and I am talking about reality | 11:46 |
| ggabriel | pawky|3: yeah, me too... i do onlinen banking too | 11:46 |
| the_mgt | iirc, in germany, you can use hbci keyfiles for online banking, so it works without a pin/tan | 11:46 |
| the_mgt | even on smartphones. it works on ios | 11:46 |
| ggabriel | (onlinen is the german term btw :P ) | 11:46 |
| dazo | ggabriel: trust is related to security ... you can't have security without trust, and trust without security is kind of moot too, IMHO | 11:46 |
| ggabriel | anyway, i find it interesting, that's all | 11:46 |
| ggabriel | dazo: i disagree | 11:47 |
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| ggabriel | dazo: security assessments would require the source code, which you won't have | 11:47 |
| dazo | hence the trust element | 11:47 |
| phdeswer | pawky|3: depends on the bank and how the app does things... This is a nice example why you should not use apps like that http://www.encripto.no/forskning/whitepapers/Nordea_mobilbank_android_multiple_vulnerabilities.pdf | 11:47 |
| ggabriel | trust is different, as it's built and it's, well, irrational | 11:47 |
| pawky|3 | when it comes to bank security, its THEIR headache, not mine... | 11:47 |
| dazo | ggabriel: you trust that the bank provides an app which is secure for you | 11:48 |
| ggabriel | pawky|3: well, i remember the story told in a ccc years ago about a guy who lost money due to bank's incompetency, so it's kinda one's problem too | 11:48 |
| ggabriel | dazo: but i don't trust android, which is made by google, which announced they'd do evil things since 2010... | 11:48 |
| ggabriel | anyway | 11:48 |
| ggabriel | dind't want to start a fight | 11:48 |
| dazo | fair enough | 11:48 |
| ggabriel | just find it interesting | 11:48 |
| dazo | :) | 11:48 |
| pawky|3 | ggabriel: depends upon country... | 11:49 |
| ggabriel | pawky|3: true, this happened in the uk and the court was a uk one | 11:49 |
| ggabriel | sadly, there's an economic element to these things | 11:49 |
| dazo | ggabriel: but wouldn't aliendalvik actually provide a better trust level towards the android platform? As it's the android API, but implemented by other people | 11:49 |
| ggabriel | so, if you lose 2k, there's no point elevating this to an EU court | 11:49 |
| zutto | ggabriel: you better start avoiding sending any packets trought US/UK/SE/NZ/JP or any other country for that matter if you avoid google for doing evil things | 11:49 |
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| pawky|3 | ggabriel: luckily that's NOT my country :-D | 11:50 |
| ggabriel | dazo: yeah, but the fact that you need it in your jolla, means that you already used it in an android :) | 11:50 |
| ggabriel | zutto: that's relative, but yeah | 11:50 |
| chem|st | I do not trust an app on the device I receive SMS-tan to... | 11:50 |
| dazo | ggabriel: well, not in my case ... I switched from N900 ... but I'd like some of the Android apps which is only available there, to make my life easier ;-) (as I have friends and a wife who uses them) | 11:51 |
| ggabriel | dazo: yeah, that's fair enough | 11:51 |
| ggabriel | i'm quite anal myself tbh | 11:51 |
| ggabriel | i don't necessarily "trust", but i make sure that my traffic goes through my isp, who i pay to | 11:51 |
| ggabriel | so they are liable | 11:51 |
| ggabriel | it's hard to do that with a phone | 11:52 |
| ggabriel | well, jolla is actually much easier | 11:52 |
| dazo | agreed | 11:52 |
| pawky|3 | With Jolla, I am in the end in control (i hope) what the phone does and when, to whom... | 11:52 |
| dazo | pawky|3: you're in control there in the moment you log all the traffic in and out and gets alerts when something unexpected is happening | 11:53 |
| ggabriel | pawky|3: i never noticed that flashlight was logging usage tbh ;-) | 11:53 |
| pawky|3 | great, the app bank works perfectly | 11:53 |
| pawky|3 | (bank app) | 11:54 |
| pawky|3 | ggabriel: interesting :-) | 11:54 |
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| ggabriel | but you can have tcpdump in sailfish | 11:54 |
| ggabriel | which is cool | 11:54 |
| pawky|3 | Until someone ports a great app like Gleeo to Jolla, I will be stuck having to use Android through Jolla... :-) | 11:55 |
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| pawky|3 | you should all try it.. kind of interesting gui, an inspiration for jolla? :-) | 11:56 |
| ggabriel | i think i'm a bit more disorganised than you pawky|3 | 11:56 |
| ggabriel | i only track when i do some sport | 11:56 |
| dazo | pawky|3: so you're tracking how much time you spend on this IRC channel?!? | 11:57 |
| * dazo ducks | 11:57 | |
| pawky|3 | ggabriel: lol, well i might actually be disorganized with the difference of at least trying, or prettending not to be ;-) | 11:57 |
| pawky|3 | dazo: LOL... well I hope my boss next to me doesn't ;-) | 11:57 |
| pawky|3 | Am I the only person a bit worried, my phone has already eaten 20% of the battery? | 11:58 |
| dazo | pawky|3: did you stop the tohd service? | 11:58 |
| Pnuu | have you disabled tohd.service? | 11:58 |
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| dazo | my phone lasts 2-3 days, with fairly active use (including wifi and bluetooth headset) | 11:59 |
| ggabriel | dazo: same here, no android tho, it's pretty cool | 11:59 |
| Tofe | yep, same here | 11:59 |
| pawky|3 | will android apps eat more battery? | 12:00 |
| pawky|3 | and, do I have to turn of that NFC chip to make it last these 2-3 days? | 12:00 |
| ggabriel | yup, alien dalvik has been reported to eat a bit more battery, but the key here is to stop tohd.service | 12:00 |
| ggabriel | pawky|3: YES, switch off the nfc thing | 12:00 |
| ggabriel | that's the main thing | 12:00 |
| dazo | at least until they've fixed the bug related to the nfc battery drain | 12:01 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | it eats battery something like 3 % per hour if you dont stop that nfc thing | 12:02 |
| pawky|3 | once you connected only charging, can you change to dev-mode ssh, without unplugging ? | 12:02 |
| pawky|3 | Harhaanjohtaja: something to disable in rc.local then? | 12:03 |
| Pnuu | via wlan, yes | 12:03 |
| ggabriel | pawky|3: (with root) systemctl stop tohd.service | 12:03 |
| ggabriel | but you have to do that every time you reboot | 12:03 |
| dazo | systemctl disable tohd.service ; systemctl mask tohd.service | 12:04 |
| dazo | that'll make it persistent through boots too | 12:04 |
| pawky|3 | ggabriel: why not put it in a boot rc ? | 12:04 |
| Pnuu | stop+mask is the way to go | 12:04 |
| ggabriel | if you mask/disable, though, remember to unmask/enable before the next upgrade just in case | 12:04 |
| pawky|3 | dazo: thanks.. | 12:04 |
| ggabriel | pawky|3: no rc in jolla? :) | 12:04 |
| dazo | yupp!! | 12:04 |
| pawky|3 | Pnuu: duh? stop+mask? | 12:04 |
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| pawky|3 | ggabriel: rc..... or similar :-) | 12:04 |
| ggabriel | pawky|3: yeah, that's what systemctl does | 12:05 |
| dazo | pawky|3: systemd is the next-gen rc stuff | 12:05 |
| ggabriel | i'm personally not disabling/masking | 12:05 |
| pawky|3 | ggabriel: untili you reboot right? | 12:05 |
| ggabriel | dazo: open-rc folks will disagree :P | 12:05 |
| ggabriel | pawky|3: i stop every time i reboot | 12:05 |
| dazo | ggabriel: hehehe | 12:05 |
| ggabriel | because i'll forget | 12:05 |
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| Pnuu | pawky|3: devel-su systemctl stop tohd.service && devel-su systemctl mask tohd.service | 12:06 |
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| dazo | Pnuu: do you know why 'disable' isn't good enough, instead of 'mask'? | 12:06 |
| Pnuu | dazo: with disable other processe can still start the service | 12:07 |
| Pnuu | processes | 12:07 |
| dazo | Pnuu: ahh, okay | 12:07 |
| dazo | thx! | 12:07 |
| Pnuu | masking prevents that | 12:07 |
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| pawky|3 | Pnuu: won't the services being able to start the service also be able to stop it once done? | 12:08 |
| Tofe | Pnuu: however, this modifies permanently (until unmask is done) the way the services are started on the device. Only doing "stop" is a little bit safer with regards to that | 12:08 |
| ggabriel | it'd be interesting to know what else has stopped after masking+reboot | 12:09 |
| Pnuu | Tofe: true, I guess | 12:09 |
| chem|st | pawky|3: "systemctl mask $tool.service" symlinks it to dev null | 12:09 |
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| ggabriel | some folks reported weird behaviour by having tohd.service masked/stopped | 12:09 |
| Pnuu | the 1.0.25 update worked fine with mask, but well, YMMV | 12:09 |
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| Tofe | ggabriel: do you have an example ? | 12:09 |
| AL13N_lappy | i got my Jolla! | 12:09 |
| Pnuu | yay! | 12:09 |
| AL13N_lappy | i didn't expect it so early | 12:10 |
| ggabriel | Tofe: i can't remember, something related to sync'ing or something like that? | 12:10 |
| ggabriel | it's in tjc | 12:10 |
| Tofe | okay | 12:10 |
| AL13N_lappy | btw: after you type in the wrong password in a WLAN, how can i retry/reconfigure? | 12:10 |
| ggabriel | Tofe: tbh, i'll wait until this is fixed for real before reporting new "strange" bugs :) | 12:10 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: that behaviour was unrelated to the masked service | 12:10 |
| pawky|3 | who uses NFC anyway?.... | 12:10 |
| netzvieh | AL13N_lappy: should be able to "Forget" | 12:10 |
| pawky|3 | I love /dev/null :-D | 12:10 |
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| ggabriel | pawky|3: i have 2 nokia 360 speakers | 12:11 |
| ggabriel | it's good to impresss your friends | 12:11 |
| Tofe | ggabriel: yes, let's hope it comes with the next bugfix update | 12:11 |
| AL13N_lappy | i tried press and hold | 12:11 |
| netzvieh | AL13N_lappy: long press on network name -> Forget network | 12:11 |
| netzvieh | works for me | 12:11 |
| pawky|3 | ggabriel: isn't bluetooth better suited? | 12:11 |
| ggabriel | pawky|3: that's exactly what it does :P pairs automatically | 12:11 |
| Pnuu | pawky|3: TOH uses NFC | 12:11 |
| pawky|3 | ggabriel: as you can hear, never used NFC... | 12:12 |
| ggabriel | nfc is quite cool, but i won't miss it | 12:12 |
| Venemo_j | I used NFC every day | 12:13 |
| Venemo_j | so I miss it a bit | 12:13 |
| pawky|3 | Venemo_j: for what exactly? | 12:14 |
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| pawky|3 | reading pasport RFIDs? :-) | 12:14 |
| Venemo_j | to connect to my headset | 12:14 |
| Venemo_j | now I have to crawl in to the settings to do it | 12:15 |
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| Venemo_j | it's a hassle now | 12:16 |
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| AL13N_lappy | netzvieh: ok, it didn't get registered yet, i just had to turn off wifi and back on again, and i can retry, but it keeps being on connecting for a long time | 12:20 |
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| AL13N_lappy | ok, nvm, it worked | 12:20 |
| netzvieh | AL13N_lappy: hmm strange, usually it should work quite fast | 12:21 |
| netzvieh | ah okay :D | 12:21 |
| netzvieh | good | 12:21 |
| AL13N_lappy | should i register first? or first update to 1.0.2.5 ? | 12:21 |
| AL13N_lappy | Pnuu: ^^ | 12:21 |
| Venemo_j | Stskeeps, are you aware of any wifi + bt coexistence issues? | 12:21 |
| Stskeeps | there's one with BT LE at least | 12:22 |
| Stskeeps | but not sure about BT normal | 12:22 |
| AL13N_lappy | Venemo_j: what IRC app did you use? | 12:23 |
| Pnuu | AL13N_lappy: upgrade asap | 12:23 |
| Pnuu | before updating any software atleast | 12:23 |
| AL13N_lappy | i had to do WLAN connection at least | 12:23 |
| AL13N_lappy | should i register the phone with jolla first? | 12:23 |
| Pnuu | AL13N_lappy: might help contacting the store :-) | 12:24 |
| tbr | :> | 12:24 |
| AL13N_lappy | exactly :-) | 12:24 |
| Venemo_j | Stskeeps, any about A2DP? | 12:25 |
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| Stskeeps | Venemo_j: well that's BT too | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | i haven't tested A2DP mself | 12:26 |
| Venemo_j | AL13N, I use IRC for Sailfish | 12:26 |
| Venemo_j | Stskeeps, sometimes weird things happen if I try to connect to wifi while using A2DP | 12:27 |
| Venemo_j | Stskeeps, I also have an incriminating dmesg output | 12:27 |
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| Trizt | thought there was a new update pushed out, but no it's just a renotification of the 1.0.2.5 release | 12:28 |
| Venemo_j | yes, it happens | 12:28 |
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| AL13N_lappy | i'm checking update, but it seems to take quite a while... | 12:35 |
| Pnuu | it does | 12:35 |
| AL13N_lappy | well, i'll see what happens | 12:36 |
| Trizt | update check don't take long at all for me | 12:36 |
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| Venemo_j | what, is there a new update? | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | no, just bad notifications from a obsessed store clients | 12:38 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:38 |
| Stskeeps | -s | 12:38 |
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| AL13N_lappy | Stskeeps: well, there is more than one :-) | 12:38 |
| ggabriel | Stskeeps: between the update to tidings and the update to flashlight i didn't get any sailfish update notification :) | 12:38 |
| Trizt | Stskeeps: is there an update planed for this month? | 12:38 |
| Stskeeps | Trizt: plans can always go awry | 12:39 |
| Trizt | sure they can | 12:39 |
| AL13N_lappy | they did promise a feature update in Q1 this year :-) | 12:39 |
| Venemo_j | so Sts, are you interested in that dmesg? | 12:40 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_j: i am | 12:40 |
| Stskeeps | mail it to me | 12:40 |
| Venemo_j | ok, will send as soon as I get home | 12:40 |
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| svuorela | are there any other halfs available yet ? the white one already seems to become dirty | 13:18 |
| ggabriel | svuorela: no... did you try cleaning it? :) | 13:19 |
| svuorela | yes. it is a daily experience | 13:20 |
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| ggabriel | uhm... hydrophobic other half sounds like a good idea then | 13:21 |
| Pnuu | 3D-print more :-) | 13:21 |
| ggabriel | or just clean the white one and spray it with hydrophobic stuff | 13:21 |
| vegai | I liked the solar panel idea | 13:21 |
| vegai | dunno if that's realistic | 13:21 |
| Pnuu | vegai: this one? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92317 | 13:22 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: lipophobic...not hydrophobic | 13:22 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: i'm unsure, i thought the nano technology would do the same thing | 13:23 |
| ggabriel | but *shrug* | 13:23 |
| ggabriel | you get the idea | 13:23 |
| chem|st | vegai: I'd do a CIGS coated TOH with direct connectors | 13:23 |
| jussi | svuorela: Im fairly certain you can find one of the limited edition ones on ebay... if you pay enough :D | 13:24 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: the dirt is organic moist so lipophobic | 13:24 |
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| svuorela | jussi: lol. | 13:24 |
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| vegai | Pnuu: I suppose that's it | 13:28 |
| vegai | " I haven't seen sun in a month or so here in Finland so the test was performed under 70 W halogen, distance ~10 cm." :-( | 13:28 |
| Pnuu | it's been a bit cloudy here.. | 13:29 |
| vegai | chem|st: what are you, a chemist? :P | 13:29 |
| zbenjamin | svuorela: there is a sprayable color that can be pulled of if you don't like it anymore. Sadly i forgot the name | 13:30 |
| zbenjamin | its like foil out of a can | 13:30 |
| Venemo | chem|st: CIGS=? | 13:31 |
| svuorela | zbenjamin: that's the kind of experiment I wouldn't mind doing if it was possible to get a couple of more white ones for teh experimentations | 13:32 |
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| zbenjamin | i think it was PlastiDip | 13:33 |
| zbenjamin | svuorela: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5ak_v_76iI | 13:33 |
| kehnoo_ | I've got extra white one | 13:34 |
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| svuorela | kehnoo_: how does one get such ones ? | 13:34 |
| kehnoo_ | just bad/good luck I guess :p | 13:35 |
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| Venemo | viq: ping | 13:47 |
| viq | Venemo: pong | 13:47 |
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| Venemo | viq: does the modified sd card mount thing still work? | 13:50 |
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| viq | Venemo: couple hours ago I rebooted my phone and the card is mounted, so yes | 13:53 |
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| viq | Venemo: though in that thread the guy was saying that the FS_ID or whatever it was called was not necessary, I have not tried to verify that. | 13:55 |
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| chem|st | Venemo: CIGS is a printable photovoltaic material | 14:25 |
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| chem|st | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_indium_gallium_selenide | 14:25 |
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| chem|st | vegai: you guessed right^^ | 14:27 |
| chem|st | vegai: I work at an institute for surface and thinfilm analytics in the field of 3D atom probe tomography | 14:29 |
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| Venemo | viq: great, can you gimme a link to the script again? also, do you think you can create a pull request on github to get it fixed in upstream | 14:36 |
| viq | https://gist.github.com/viq/8201021 | 14:36 |
| Venemo | viq: thanks! and which file do I have to override with this? | 14:37 |
| viq | Venemo: also, there already is a pull request, that's where I originally got the file from, https://github.com/nemomobile/sd-utils/pull/8 | 14:38 |
| Venemo | ok! | 14:38 |
| Venemo | so where do I put this file? | 14:39 |
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| viq | I think it's in /usr/bin or /usr/sbin | 14:39 |
| Venemo | viq: is it /usr/sbin/mount-sd.sh ? | 14:41 |
| viq | sounds right | 14:41 |
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| Venemo | btw, is there a way to change the hostname of the jolla? | 14:42 |
| Venemo | it is now just 'localhost' | 14:42 |
| chem|st | Venemo: write /etc/hostname | 14:42 |
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| Venemo | chem|st: there is no such file | 14:43 |
| Venemo | chem|st: shall I create it? | 14:43 |
| chem|st | exactly | 14:43 |
| Venemo | k | 14:43 |
| chem|st | if the device gets a DHCP hostname it will use that instead of /etc/hostname | 14:43 |
| Venemo | heh | 14:44 |
| chem|st | think there needs to be some hacking of connman be done to change that behaviour | 14:44 |
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| Venemo | ah, works | 14:45 |
| Venemo | viq: you script works too | 14:45 |
| Venemo | thanks :) | 14:45 |
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| stezz | pvuorela: I found out that we have a DAY VIEW in calendar | 14:59 |
| stezz | I have shown it to VDVsx and the other guys here | 15:00 |
| stezz | and they were all : WOW! Amazing! Never seen that! | 15:00 |
| stezz | just wondering… are you aware of it ? Because it seems to need a LOT of love :D | 15:00 |
| stezz | I guess I am writing on the wrong channel ... | 15:00 |
| Yaniel | it does | 15:01 |
| stezz | :/ | 15:01 |
| Yaniel | if you mean the day-by-hour view | 15:01 |
| stezz | Yaniel: yeah I meant that | 15:01 |
| Yaniel | it feels really promising though | 15:01 |
| Venemo | stezz: where's that day view? | 15:02 |
| stezz | I won't tell now otherwise you will open bugs :D | 15:02 |
| Venemo | stezz: "go to today" will only go to today on the month view | 15:02 |
| Yaniel | Venemo: try poking around, might be worth an issue on tjc | 15:03 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | press today | 15:03 |
| ggabriel | Venemo: click on "today" :P | 15:03 |
| ggabriel | s/click/tap/ | 15:03 |
| Venemo | man, I would NEVER have found that by myself | 15:03 |
| Yaniel | it's quite sneaky | 15:03 |
| Yaniel | I found it by accident | 15:03 |
| Yaniel | because the last thing that label looks like is something clickable | 15:04 |
| Venemo | +1 | 15:04 |
| stezz | Venemo: I have been using this phone for 6 months and I found out yesterday ... | 15:04 |
| ggabriel | i found it because stezz mentioned it | 15:04 |
| ggabriel | and i played zelda | 15:04 |
| Tofe | wow | 15:04 |
| w00t | stezz: to be fair I don't think it existed six months ago :D | 15:05 |
| Venemo | stezz: wow. I suggest putting a link to this page to the pulley menu | 15:05 |
| Venemo | but yes, generally, this is the bad thing about every minimalist UI - you can never know what's clickable :D | 15:05 |
| leinir | s/minimalist/flat/ | 15:06 |
| stezz | Venemo: Yeah I would suggest the same :) | 15:06 |
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| leinir | but yes, that's quite useful :) | 15:06 |
| Venemo | stezz: I know you probably heard this from me already, but please tell me that the email client is getting some love! | 15:07 |
| stezz | Yes it is | 15:07 |
| Venemo | also please follow the "release early, release often" model | 15:07 |
| stezz | (actually all the apps are constantly improving, not only email) | 15:07 |
| Venemo | I would welcome an update to the email client, even if it fixes only one of the bugs | 15:08 |
| stezz | I thought that having released 2 updates in one month was living up to that standard ;) | 15:08 |
| Pnuu | :-) | 15:08 |
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| Venemo | well, those were 2 "big" updates and it was VERY nice stezz :) | 15:08 |
| ggabriel | i want an update for my birthday please | 15:08 |
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| Venemo | stezz: but phaeron and the other guys explained to me that the Jolla apps can be (and are) updated independently of the OS. so there's nothing stopping you from releasing a new version of the email client every day as a new bugfix is implemented | 15:09 |
| Venemo | ok, every day is a bit too hard maybe | 15:09 |
| stezz | Venemo: we need to do some testing Venemo, we are not cowboys :D | 15:09 |
| ggabriel | ...unless it has a dependency with a OS component? | 15:09 |
| Venemo | stezz: sure, I understand! but yes, you are cowboys! | 15:10 |
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| w00t | yeeee haw | 15:11 |
| Venemo | stezz: for me, the most frustrating thing right now is that I can't reply to any mailing list with the Jolla email client. but there're so many bugs in it that I'd welcome an update even if it just fixes one bug | 15:11 |
| * w00t puts a saddle on Venemo and rides off into the sunset | 15:11 | |
| Tofe | cowmunity boys ? | 15:11 |
| Venemo | w00t: am I a horse? | 15:11 |
| w00t | Venemo: hey, if we're cowboys, we have to have something to ride :p | 15:11 |
| stezz | Lots of things are being fixed, I think that for the good of everyone we sync still for a couple of updates the app schedule with the OS schedule | 15:12 |
| ggabriel | w00t: do you have sunsets right now? :) | 15:12 |
| Venemo | w00t: I thought you have small boats for that :P | 15:12 |
| stezz | for the reason that ggabriel pointed out | 15:12 |
| Tofe | ggabriel: I guess it was an hour ago... | 15:12 |
| Venemo | stezz: okay! thanks for the hard work :) | 15:12 |
| stezz | Venemo: it was 10 euros for the consultation ;) | 15:13 |
| ggabriel | Tofe: hehe, ok, not so north then | 15:13 |
| Venemo | stezz: what consultation? | 15:13 |
| stezz | the one I just gave you | 15:13 |
| Venemo | you are very funny :) | 15:13 |
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| Venemo | stezz: but I'm giving you something better than 10 euros. in fact, go to the store and download my app :P | 15:14 |
| stezz | Ok, we can consider it even. This time. ;) | 15:14 |
| Venemo | stezz: it's got 1503 downloads so far, so you still owe me 15020 € worth of consultations | 15:16 |
| stezz | I haven't signed any agreement… have I :D | 15:16 |
| Venemo | :P | 15:17 |
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| Venemo | stezz: on a more serious note though, I truly recommend trying the app :) | 15:18 |
| stezz | what app? | 15:18 |
| stezz | (no jokes :) ) | 15:18 |
| Trizt | is there any hack to get the alien dalkvik to continue to run application while phone is standby? | 15:18 |
| Venemo | stezz: it's called Puzzle Master | 15:19 |
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| Venemo | stezz: you can find it in games / puzzles | 15:22 |
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| * ggabriel observes as how we lose stezz's interest in jolla and dedicates his life to playing puzzle master | 15:25 | |
| liar | can somebody with a jolla phone help me test a few things? (execute a few commands) | 15:26 |
| ggabriel | liar: yeah, go on | 15:26 |
| FiSHBoY | should you really trust someone named liar? ;) | 15:27 |
| ggabriel | i'm not executing blindly FiSHBoY ;) | 15:27 |
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| FiSHBoY | hehe | 15:27 |
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| krnlyng | FiSHBoY: only non destructive commands and if something breaks anyways i would help getting the device back to the original state :) | 15:32 |
| Venemo | non-destructive commands like su - -c 'rm -rf /' ? :P | 15:33 |
| Tofe | some tr piping would make it more trustable, of course | 15:33 |
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| zbenjamin | i'm wondering when the next update will be released ;) | 15:53 |
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| zbenjamin | anyone has any informations about that? | 15:53 |
| Venemo | soon™ | 15:54 |
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| zbenjamin | When Its Done™ | 15:54 |
| ggabriel | zbenjamin: i trust for my birthday | 15:54 |
| zbenjamin | ggabriel: when is your birthday? | 15:55 |
| ggabriel | close to the end of this month :) | 15:55 |
| Venemo | ggabriel: when's your birthday? | 15:55 |
| zbenjamin | ok so i trust in your birthday too ;) | 15:55 |
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| ggabriel | altho technically i did say that i wouldn't have any further birthday for 5 years, so maybe not | 15:55 |
| zbenjamin | ggabriel: reaching 30 ? ;) | 15:56 |
| ggabriel | zbenjamin: nope, well over it | 15:56 |
| ggabriel | but i look younger | 15:56 |
| zbenjamin | of course ;) we all do | 15:56 |
| ggabriel | and one cab driver asked my age and was so surprised that almost crashes | 15:56 |
| ggabriel | so, for my safety, i'll wait 5 years and continue counting | 15:56 |
| ggabriel | nb: most get surprised, only one almost crashes :P | 15:57 |
| ggabriel | (as in, they are not all bad) | 15:57 |
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| zbenjamin | lol, last time someone guessed my age i was like 9 years younger. But a guy standing right there too was guessed 6 yeears older than he actually was | 15:58 |
| zbenjamin | good day for me ;) | 15:58 |
| zbenjamin | sorry they guessed me 9 years younger | 15:58 |
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| Venemo | ggabriel: ok, so when's your birthday? mine is 22nd january | 15:58 |
| ggabriel | Venemo: 21st | 15:58 |
| Venemo_j | nice | 15:58 |
| ggabriel | zbenjamin: that's fun unless they don't let you in a club because they think that you're <18 | 15:59 |
| ggabriel | and in fact you're 27 | 15:59 |
| zbenjamin | na even when 9 years younger i would still be oder than 18 :( | 15:59 |
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| Venemo_j | ggabriel: so how old're ya? | 15:59 |
| zbenjamin | damn i'm old | 15:59 |
| ggabriel | Venemo_j: 35 | 15:59 |
| ggabriel | zbenjamin: yup, passed that threashold too | 15:59 |
| Venemo_j | ggabriel: ah, congrats! :) | 15:59 |
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| ggabriel | Venemo_j: why congrats? :) | 16:00 |
| Venemo | ggabriel: for your birthday (which almost coincides with mine) | 16:00 |
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| ggabriel | Venemo: :) | 16:00 |
| SK_Jolla | test | 16:00 |
| Venemo_j | hey SK_Jolla | 16:01 |
| zbenjamin | SK_Jolla: test failed | 16:01 |
| Venemo_j | lol | 16:01 |
| ggabriel | XBOX Sign Out | 16:01 |
| ggabriel | oh, it doesn't work here | 16:01 |
| zbenjamin | ggabriel: all your savegames are deleted .... | 16:02 |
| zbenjamin | .... | 16:02 |
| zbenjamin | done | 16:02 |
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| zbenjamin | ;) | 16:02 |
| stephg | happy friday everyone | 16:02 |
| zbenjamin | aaa yeah its friday | 16:02 |
| stephg | \o. | 16:02 |
| stephg | \o/ even | 16:02 |
| ggabriel | happy friday indeed | 16:03 |
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| zbenjamin | stephg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi00ykRg_5c | 16:04 |
| stephg | oh god not again | 16:04 |
| zbenjamin | stephg: haha ;) | 16:04 |
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| zbenjamin | its the death metal version, much more fun imho | 16:05 |
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| pawky | Am I the only one thinking the rattling volume button gives the phone a bit of a cheepish feeling, even though everything is pretty solid? :-( | 16:28 |
| pawky | (cheapish) | 16:28 |
| ggabriel | pawky: agree, the rocker seems flaky | 16:28 |
| pawky | ggabriel, I wish one could open the phone up and fix it... | 16:29 |
| ggabriel | power button too | 16:29 |
| ggabriel | pawky: you can :) | 16:29 |
| ggabriel | not sure that's fixable tho | 16:29 |
| pawky | ggabriel, the power button is firm on mine... | 16:29 |
| ggabriel | they are rubber buttons apparently | 16:29 |
| pawky | rubber? | 16:29 |
| pawky | inside you mean | 16:29 |
| ggabriel | pawky: my power button is firmer than the volume rocker, let's put it that way | 16:29 |
| ggabriel | pawky: yup, inside | 16:29 |
| ggabriel | well, somebody reported thta | 16:29 |
| ggabriel | i didn't open mine | 16:29 |
| pawky | Do I get it right, wether they are firm or not is a batch issue? | 16:30 |
| ggabriel | pawky: maybe, i haven't seen any other jolla | 16:30 |
| ggabriel | and this is hard to see in a video too | 16:31 |
| pawky | ggabriel: tre.. | 16:31 |
| pawky | ggabriel: true... | 16:31 |
| ggabriel | i'm not too worried aobut that though | 16:31 |
| pawky | ggabriel: me neither, but as you know, everybody wants to see, feel and touch on demoes.... | 16:31 |
| ggabriel | "can I SEE? with my hands??" | 16:32 |
| ggabriel | :) | 16:32 |
| ggabriel | that's the only good thing that samsung did | 16:32 |
| ggabriel | a commercial taking the piss of apple | 16:32 |
| pawky | Microsoft, with its .... exchange can enforce having control over your mobile to be able to erase it etc (big brother style) would you come in unfavour of your company, will this work if using an android exchange client? or could one just walk home laughing? :-) | 16:33 |
| pawky | highly hypothetically speaking that is.... :-D | 16:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Note that that may lead to you no-longer being employed. | 16:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Secure erasing of devices you may access corporate data from does actually have a point. | 16:34 |
| pawky | SpaedEvil, my laughing you mean? :-D | 16:34 |
| pawky | SpeedEvil, no it does NOT... | 16:35 |
| pawky | its totally pointless | 16:35 |
| pawky | except for big brother 'we don't trust you, but do trust us' style... | 16:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Refuse to use your own phone for work. | 16:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Problem solved. | 16:35 |
| pawky | SpeedEvil, this is a hypothetical question... of course in real life i have already worked around this.... | 16:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Companies may be legally required to take such measures. | 16:35 |
| pawky | SpeedEvil, I highly doubt it.... legally speaking... | 16:36 |
| ggabriel | hehe "may" | 16:36 |
| pawky | "Hi, we trust you to have this data, but we do not trust you being able to acutally handle it.... thus we enforce an erase function"..... eehh... | 16:37 |
| pawky | stupidity at best in my point of view... | 16:37 |
| pawky | actually anybody sending anything secret using E-mail must be rather stupid in the first place... | 16:37 |
| pawky | E-mail.... come on.... | 16:38 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.techrepublic.com/article/what-the-sarbanes-oxley-act-means-for-it-managers/ | 16:38 |
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| ggabriel | depends on the level of confidentiality | 16:38 |
| SpeedEvil | For example, as one law that affects email | 16:38 |
| ggabriel | fwiw, email goes encrypted these days by default | 16:38 |
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| walokra | transfers yes, content no | 16:39 |
| pawky | SpeedEvil.... ehhh... I am talking about a DEMOCRATIC country.... | 16:39 |
| pawky | SpeedEvil, or I mean a country with democracy.... to be more correct... not the States.... | 16:39 |
| walokra | s-oxley affects also other countries if you work in usa/canada company | 16:40 |
| teve | like sweden (FRA)? | 16:40 |
| pawky | ggabriel... until they reach your little inbox... | 16:40 |
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| ggabriel | pawky: what's wrong with my inbox? | 16:41 |
| ggabriel | it's probably one of the mostly secured out there | 16:41 |
| ggabriel | erm most secure even | 16:41 |
| pawky | ggbabriel, but its not the wire tapping i am refering to, but rather the totally impossibility for most people to actually verify the sender, is who they say they are.. | 16:41 |
| pawky | ggabriel: no encryption there... | 16:41 |
| ggabriel | well, one day i'll do disk encryption | 16:41 |
| ggabriel | but otherwise my imap access is encrypted | 16:41 |
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| ggabriel | and so far nobody has broken in and stolen data so gg | 16:41 |
| SpeedEvil | pawky: There are all sorts of legal requirements on companies. SO is by far not the only one. Your thoughts on the sensibility of email as a buisness device do not mean that the law agrees with you. | 16:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Nor does your violation (supposed) of corporate IT policy mean that that is not legitimate grounds for disciplinary action. | 16:42 |
| pawky | SpeedEvil, well none that will enforce them having to erase your phone... | 16:42 |
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| pawky | SpeedEvil, but of course they would very much like to.... but thats different | 16:43 |
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| * ggabriel agrees that the best thing to do is to have separate work and personal phone | 16:44 | |
| pawky | SpeedEvil: Security cannot be built upon an idea having to erase things after the information is sent. | 16:44 |
| pawky | ggabriel: normally that is a good thing, until they enforce you to have a certain type of phone... | 16:44 |
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| pawky | ggabriel: I have of course already solved this matter, but my question was, what will happen if an android exchange client wants to erase a phone, and also is the Jolla phone this .... erase blaha... compliant? | 16:46 |
| ggabriel | pawky: they gave me an iphone, at least i can complain about it with good reason :) | 16:46 |
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| ggabriel | pawky: can they actually do that? an application having access to the full phone? | 16:46 |
| pawky | ggabriel: i second that.... they wanted to do the same with me.... | 16:46 |
| pawky | ggabriel: I just smiled and made a work around... | 16:46 |
| pawky | ggabriel: of course fully "company policy compliant" :-) | 16:47 |
| pawky | But, what I am fishing for, is wether the phone is this remote control compliant, or not... and what actually happens when running an exchange client in the alien dalvik that would get a factory reset request.. | 16:48 |
| slate | why to run exchange on android-box? | 16:49 |
| walokra | because jolla isn't exchange security policy compliant | 16:49 |
| slate | tweak your server | 16:49 |
| slate | :D | 16:49 |
| walokra | but neither is exchange in android-box or at least k-9 didn't work | 16:49 |
| walokra | tweak my corporate server, yep :) | 16:50 |
| pawky | slate: could be to circumwent EAS policy enforcement | 16:50 |
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| mord | hmhm. the remote-wipe -capable device manager role seems to actually be required for exchange compliance | 16:50 |
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| pawky | mord: so... is the Jolla phone actually compliant?... | 16:51 |
| slate | walokra: hehe ;) | 16:51 |
| walokra | not yet | 16:51 |
| slate | Understood. | 16:51 |
| pawky | GREAT! :-D | 16:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | pawky: The problem with 'security cannot' - is that you can actually be put in jail in some cases for not complying with these sort of policies. | 16:51 |
| pawky | slate: and what would a remote wipe instructin lead to when running an android client? | 16:51 |
| SpeedEvil | pawky: Arguing technical facts does not change the law. | 16:51 |
| pawky | SpeedEvil: you can be put in jail for nothing, ask the americans... but that doesn't necessarily mean they are right | 16:52 |
| walokra | i think the aliendalvik isn't compliant either | 16:52 |
| pawky | walokra: thats what I am suspecting as well... :-) | 16:52 |
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| walokra | as doesn't it use the underlying features and if sailfish can't do it then... | 16:53 |
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| pawky | SpeedEvil: exactly what law enforces you to have a remote wipeable device? I haven't heard of one yet... i believe in the end you shouldn't have sensitive information upon something you would have to do remote wipes upon in the first place... | 16:54 |
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| pawky | SpeedEvil: There are laws though restricting where sensitive data should be stored upon, backed up yada, yada... | 16:55 |
| SpeedEvil | The legal requirements are largely on companies, as I understand it. If you're not in charge, then the worst that will generally happen is being fired. | 16:55 |
| pawky | SpeedEvil: exactly :-) | 16:56 |
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| pawky | but, to all in here, i am not conspiring upon something, i am just wondering about the EAS compliance policy and remote wipe wise, as Jolla does have an exchange client, and i believe one could download it for android as well... :-) | 16:58 |
| ggabriel | pawky: too late, the helicopters should be there soon | 16:59 |
| pawky | ggabriel: "Run Forrest, Run!" :-) | 16:59 |
| SpeedEvil | pawky: For example - under the data protection act in the UK - and EU countries - companies are under an obligation to handle personally identifiable information in a secure manner. What 'secure' means is debatable - but if you are holding unencrypted emails on a buisness device, you need to be able to wipe that data.And yes, I'm aware that storing data unencrypted is bad anyway. Not having such a corporate policy could lead to prosecution | 17:01 |
| SpeedEvil | under the act. | 17:01 |
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| netzvieh | SpeedEvil: so BYOD is dead then? because it's not compliant? | 17:02 |
| SpeedEvil | netzvieh: Well - if you're willing to have your device wiped - it works just fine. | 17:03 |
| netzvieh | so its basically BYODWCBWR? | 17:04 |
| netzvieh | which can be wiped remot...ly | 17:04 |
| netzvieh | how the hell does one spell that? | 17:04 |
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| netzvieh | ah with an e *remotely | 17:05 |
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| netzvieh | hmm. would it be sufficient to force all employees to encrypt their phone? | 17:08 |
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| pawky | SpeedEvil: keeping secure personally identifiable data on a phone, must be a violation of this data protection act in the first place, using E-mail to send it must be even worse... | 17:10 |
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| pawky | SpeedEvil: i believe, keeping person identifiable data on a phone could lead to prosecution... | 17:11 |
| netzvieh | pawky: in germany it's allowed to send PID via email, as long as the mail is encrypted | 17:13 |
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| pawky | netsvieh: there goes security.... | 17:14 |
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| netzvieh | security is a lie :) | 17:19 |
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| Venemo_j | hey :) | 18:40 |
| Pnuu | evening | 18:41 |
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| clau | o/ | 18:47 |
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| Quu | herp | 18:48 |
| Quu | new battery, day 1: 0 shutdowns | 18:49 |
| Pnuu | :-) | 18:49 |
| Venemo_j | had an awesome match of tennis :) | 18:49 |
| Venemo_j | Quu: where did you get a new battery? | 18:49 |
| Quu | atleast one of Jolla happens to live in this city | 18:50 |
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| Quu | dont want to hilight him :) | 18:50 |
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| Venemo_j | Quu: which city? | 18:54 |
| Quu | jyväskylä | 18:54 |
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| Venemo_j | Quu I'm dumb, haven't heard of it :( | 18:57 |
| Quu | middle of finland | 18:57 |
| Quu | ~7th largest "city" in finland, not even city according to EU-standards | 18:58 |
| Pnuu | no, in middle of central finland, but far from middle of finland :-D | 18:58 |
| fk_lx | Quu: number of inhabitants? | 18:58 |
| Venemo_j | Okay :) | 18:58 |
| Pnuu | (and the middle-point of central finland is uurainen) | 18:58 |
| Quu | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyv%C3%A4skyl%C3%A4 | 18:58 |
| ggabriel | Quu: what eu standards? in the uk you're a city if you have a cathedral :P | 18:58 |
| Pnuu | thousand lakes rally, matti nykänen, jyp, ... | 18:59 |
| Pnuu | ggabriel: in finland it's nowadays enough that the municipality says "ok, now we are a city" | 18:59 |
| friese | awh, jyväskylä, been there two times, it's slowly getting time for the third :) | 18:59 |
| Pnuu | I went to highschool in jyväskylä | 19:00 |
| ottulo | Pnuu: doesn't it require certain public services to be called a city? | 19:00 |
| ottulo | like a hospital | 19:00 |
| friese | iirc they have one, yes | 19:00 |
| tuomasjjrasanen | I'm from Jyväskylä too! | 19:01 |
| Quu | ok, time to schedule Jolla meeting then | 19:02 |
| Quu | lol | 19:02 |
| clau | it looks nice though (the city) | 19:02 |
| friese | the view with the lake, the bridge and that little island they had there, yeah quite nice | 19:03 |
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| Quu | yeah, Kuokkalan silta, also known as "bridge of death" at winter | 19:04 |
| clau | all cities are like that, they have a small beautiful part and everything else looks like a post-apocalyptic cheap movie. | 19:04 |
| FireFly | Quu: why the name? | 19:04 |
| clau | "bridge of death" at winter | 19:05 |
| clau | hmm | 19:05 |
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| friese | okay, i probably haven't been to the bad parts of jyväskylä, but it looked quite nice overall. sure, some flat-districts, but not that bad... | 19:05 |
| Quu | FireFly: its long and rises nicely over the lake | 19:05 |
| Quu | -25c, hard winds | 19:05 |
| FireFly | Oh, ouch | 19:05 |
| Quu | i cant english | 19:05 |
| Quu | but yeah, anyway | 19:05 |
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| friese | Quu: what was the name of that little uninhabited island there exactly? i know there was some funny story there as well... | 19:06 |
| Quu | friese: no idea what island you mean :) | 19:06 |
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| clau | "Ah, God," says Bokonon, "what an ugly city every city is." | 19:07 |
| clau | obviously, he wasn't a big fan of cities. | 19:07 |
| clau | (it's from Cat's Cradle, Vonnegut) | 19:09 |
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| friese | humm, guess im going crazy then, can't seem to find that island on here satellite-view... | 19:11 |
| tuomasjjrasanen | friese: hmm.. do you mean Lehtisaari? | 19:11 |
| tuomasjjrasanen | http://www.lehtisaarenkesakoti.net/historia/ | 19:11 |
| Quu | tuomasjjrasanen: but its not uninhabited | 19:11 |
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| Quu | iirc. | 19:12 |
| friese | closest thing i can see is that place between slitakatu and suuruspääntje, maybe it looked uninhabited to me because of the many trees.... | 19:13 |
| tuomasjjrasanen | Quu: well, there's a building for summer activities but no one lives there | 19:13 |
| Quu | friese: that place is some sort of errrh | 19:13 |
| Quu | place for abused women and their kids | 19:13 |
| friese | ehrm okay, didn't know that | 19:14 |
| Quu | but it might have been lehtisaari like tuomasjjrasanen said | 19:14 |
| friese | well, thats quite some kilometers away from jyväskylä (if here found the right one) | 19:16 |
| netzvieh | is there is builtin software way to reboot the jolla? | 19:17 |
| Pnuu | devel-su reboot | 19:17 |
| friese | ah okay, found another lehtisaari far nearer, which here strangely didn't list... yeah, that could also be it... | 19:18 |
| Quu | shutdown -r now | 19:18 |
| Quu | :p | 19:18 |
| netzvieh | but no gui way atm? | 19:18 |
| Pnuu | netzvieh: power button? :-P | 19:18 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | there is now an pplication in the store | 19:19 |
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| HarhaanJohtaja | SailfishReboot | 19:19 |
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| netzvieh | reboot & shutdwon -r should do the same :D they did in SysVinit times iirc :D | 19:20 |
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| netzvieh | Pnuu: yeah, but I usually try not to use that | 19:20 |
| Quu | "reboot" didnt work for me | 19:20 |
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| netzvieh | HarhaanJohtaja: yep, I saw the app, but I thought there would be a builtin way | 19:21 |
| netzvieh | Quu: as root it worked here | 19:21 |
| Quu | ok, maybe wasnt root then | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | http://stezz.blogspot.com/2014/01/a-journey-of-year-more-or-less.html | 19:21 |
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| slate | Stskeeps: nice | 19:24 |
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| Pnuu | yay, I'm in that tjc screenshot :-D | 19:28 |
| Quu | Stskeeps: good info about stuffs there :) | 19:28 |
| slate | was the original shipping date given before or after you guys decided to dump x11 and qt4.8 or after? :) | 19:28 |
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| attah | Stskeeps: I envy you guys! Experiences like this is what makes like worthwhile. | 19:32 |
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| netzvieh | "Ah and we released 2 updates and 1 hotfix in 1 month, more than most of the devices out there will ever get in their lifetime. " Truth to be told! | 19:34 |
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| ggabriel | i recommend agasint tapas in barcelona | 19:38 |
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| Tofe | ggabriel: depends where! | 19:43 |
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| ggabriel | Tofe: where do you suggest? i did go to a few places, and proper restaurants were the best | 19:44 |
| ggabriel | not sure tapas originated in catalunya anyway, more of a traditional spanish thing | 19:44 |
| ggabriel | i do know that barcelona is in spain, but the tradition comes from where it wasn't | 19:44 |
| Tofe | ggabriel: well, the problem is I've not been in Barcelona for a couple of years, and I went there only for a week or so each time. I did eat marvelous tapas, though, several times. | 19:45 |
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| ggabriel | yeah, i'm not saying they're bad | 19:45 |
| Tofe | ggabriel: but I'm saying I forgot where I ate them :) | 19:45 |
| ggabriel | i'm saying that the restaurant experience with ham, wine, stew was a lot better | 19:45 |
| ggabriel | i felt like tapas was a kind touristic thing, even tho locals suggested it | 19:45 |
| ggabriel | also, overpriced | 19:45 |
| Tofe | ggabriel: could well be so, you seem to have more experience than me on that topic | 19:46 |
| ggabriel | ok, i'm testing bluetooth audio, a bit low in volume me thinks | 19:46 |
| ggabriel | Tofe: i like my food :) | 19:47 |
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| AL13N | huh | 19:51 |
| AL13N | well, i've been prepared of course | 19:51 |
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| AL13N | but after using it for a bit (no SIM in it yet), i only have a few minor annoyances: the native apps aren't visible in listing, no belgian azerty keyb, wlan password fail needs to turn off/on wlan, the accidental device lock | 19:55 |
| AL13N | but all in all, this is a very nice phone | 19:55 |
| AL13N | the browser isn't even half bad either | 19:56 |
| * AL13N like | 19:56 | |
| ggabriel | AL13N: :) | 19:56 |
| ggabriel | you aren't telling us anything new | 19:57 |
| ggabriel | which is good | 19:57 |
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| cvp | hello :) | 19:58 |
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| ggabriel | right... today i learned that nfc-to-pair-bluetooth devices is not as simple as i thought | 19:58 |
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| cvp | than make it easyer | 19:59 |
| cvp | ;) | 19:59 |
| ggabriel | no, it's good | 19:59 |
| ggabriel | it's kinda "secure" | 19:59 |
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| cvp | is it possible to read the nfc sticker from toh + edit and write it back ? | 20:01 |
| ggabriel | it's unlocked, most of it | 20:01 |
| ggabriel | let me check again | 20:01 |
| cvp | you have an nfc reader/writer ? | 20:02 |
| ggabriel | cvp: yeah, everything is unlocked | 20:03 |
| ggabriel | you can't alter hte id of course | 20:03 |
| ggabriel | cvp: yup, a tikitag :D | 20:03 |
| ggabriel | i actually spent most of today resetting it up, getting all the tools and so on | 20:03 |
| cvp | is the information inside big ? | 20:03 |
| ggabriel | a lot of fun | 20:03 |
| ggabriel | cvp: there is nothing... jolla uses the id afaik | 20:03 |
| cvp | can you copy past in pastabin ? | 20:04 |
| ggabriel | actually, uhm, maybe you can even change the id | 20:04 |
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| Pnuu | pastabin, a special italian trashbin | 20:06 |
| ggabriel | cvp: http://pastebin.com/9CdJBM5Q | 20:06 |
| ggabriel | i masked the id | 20:06 |
| ggabriel | and there is some data in blocks 2-5 | 20:07 |
| ggabriel | not sure what that is | 20:07 |
| cvp | i think all toh have the same information | 20:07 |
| cvp | ggabriel: thanks | 20:07 |
| ggabriel | i tried to look for the chap who posted in tmo too | 20:08 |
| ggabriel | but couldn't find it quickly | 20:08 |
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| cvp | yeah i bouth it an palm charger... hard to find in second hand | 20:11 |
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| attah | ping tanghus_ | 20:21 |
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| cvp | give it a irc client for sailfish ? | 20:28 |
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| Stskeeps | so how is everybody? | 20:35 |
| cvp | ? | 20:36 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:37 |
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| attah | For the record: pretty good :) Most of the background work is done for a upcoming album art app. | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | cool | 20:39 |
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| Pnuu | Stskeeps: beer and bowmore | 20:39 |
| attah | i.e. no code yet.. but I have the how-to pretty much nailed down | 20:39 |
| cvp | nice | 20:39 |
| special | coffee and too much work. | 20:39 |
| w00t | too little coffee and alcohol and too much code I don't understand | 20:40 |
| attah | w00t: +1 | 20:40 |
| special | what's a friday without coffee and alcohol? :< | 20:40 |
| w00t | special: a monday | 20:40 |
| Pnuu | special: sunday? | 20:41 |
| Pnuu | :-D | 20:41 |
| slate | a family night? | 20:41 |
| slate | ;) | 20:41 |
| Stskeeps | f..amily? | 20:42 |
| ottulo | special: my friday | 20:42 |
| ottulo | although the latter can be negociated | 20:42 |
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| Quu | whiskey | 20:47 |
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| Quu | in the jar | 20:47 |
| ottulo | not dirt? | 20:47 |
| Quu | nah, work tomorrow, cant do dirt today | 20:48 |
| attah | /rofl | 20:48 |
| netzvieh | cvp: there should be at least one irc client for sailfish, pretty sure there are more ;) & "gibt es" = "is there" ;) | 20:48 |
| cvp | yeah my english are bad :D | 20:49 |
| cvp | aber danke ;) | 20:49 |
| cvp | is bad :p | 20:49 |
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| pawky | Now this is a bit on the odd side... yesterday I got an update message, and updated to 1.0.2.5, which I did... and today I get an update message to 1.0.2.5 again! what on earth is going on? | 20:55 |
| teve | its "normal" | 20:56 |
| netzvieh | pawky: it wants to show its titties again :P | 20:56 |
| pawky | netzvieh: great! :-) | 20:57 |
| pawky | netzvieh, just don't tell my gf I am watching someone elses ... ... | 20:57 |
| special | pawky: it'll be fixed in the next update to the store client, I believe | 20:57 |
| pawky | special: I am doing the update.. I hope that was a good choice... | 20:58 |
| pawky | when at it, the google play store, suddenly went away, and i had to reinstall it... is it me, or my phone?.... | 20:59 |
| Pnuu | how many guesses I can use?-) | 20:59 |
| attah | pawky.. happened to me too.. but it has worked fine since re-installing | 20:59 |
| Quu | pawky: when that happens, reboot (or restarting the alien-dalvik.service (or whatever)) helps | 20:59 |
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| pawky | Quu, attah did a bit of both.... reinstalled, then i lost internet connection for good... rebooted, everything is fine again.... until it told me I also had to update the phone again to 1.0.2.5... now i installed it as well.. hope it will boot ;-) | 21:01 |
| attah | haha :) | 21:01 |
| Quu | well, reinstalling is bit "harder" as you need to remember commands | 21:01 |
| attah | Btw.. Is it some EU regulation that made jolla have that volume pop-down? And can i get rid of it? | 21:02 |
| Quu | .. or press up arrow on keyboard | 21:02 |
| Quu | volume pop-down? | 21:02 |
| attah | adjusting the volume above ~70% in the media player displays a warning | 21:02 |
| special | attah: yes, there are regulatory requirements for volume warning dialogs in quite a few places | 21:02 |
| pawky | Quu: nah, i just installed the google appstore, and it worked again.. that part was fairly easy, exept for me being a bit bewildered and wondering how stable the OS actually is at the moment... | 21:03 |
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| attah | but what if my headphones aren't even especially loud when i get it? | 21:03 |
| special | attah: then you must already be deaf ;) | 21:03 |
| pawky | But is the update, correct and having some bug fixes? or does it just reinstall the same 1.0.2.5? | 21:03 |
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| attah | special: oh shit! | 21:04 |
| Pnuu | pawky: my guess is, it does nothing | 21:04 |
| special | pawky: same version number == no changes | 21:04 |
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| Pnuu | the funny thing is, I haven't seen that re-appearance at all :-P | 21:04 |
| pawky | well, it reinstalled and booted nicely.... I presume i will have to do that mask tehd stuff again though to not drain the battery... right? | 21:04 |
| pawky | special: thought there might be some minor changes under the radar... | 21:05 |
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| Quu | pawky: you can pkcon/zypper and see what it installs ;) | 21:05 |
| Quu | or tries to install | 21:05 |
| Quu | or something. | 21:05 |
| Quu | i cant words today | 21:05 |
| special | pawky: nope. That version number bumps itself every time we touch anything. | 21:05 |
| pawky | This Alien Dalvik stuff really rocks... installed google sky... a bit worried it seems to read the orientation a bit wrong as now it will show the polar star being at the horizon, and.... well.... i am quite far away from the equator.... | 21:06 |
| pawky | special. How about "no tuchy, tuchy?" ;-) | 21:06 |
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| slate | pawky: no gyro support | 21:08 |
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| pawky | slate: well... it seems to, as it does things when i rotate the phone, are you sure? | 21:08 |
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| pawky | slate: oh... so thats just the compass then? | 21:09 |
| slate | accelerometer is supported, dunno if it uses that | 21:10 |
| slate | and magnetometer | 21:10 |
| slate | gyro would read the phones orientation based on earths gravity | 21:11 |
| slate | its supported in sailfish but not yet in alien dalvik | 21:11 |
| pawky | slate: well, i presume i am levitating then, considering the polar star position.... ;- | 21:12 |
| meShell | any qt hero here? | 21:13 |
| pawky | wow... this is cool, i get a "system update available" when I start google sky... :-) | 21:13 |
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| pawky | MeShell, i think I got both qt, and hero maps in my phone... so there they are... ;-) | 21:14 |
| pawky | meShell: couldne't help myself... :-D | 21:15 |
| netzvieh | meShell: prob. in #qt or #sailfishos? | 21:16 |
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| meShell | lol OK maybe that's enough ... I got this stupid QT-Error now on 2 different systems, first on OpenSUSE, then NOT on Ubuntu and now again on SailfishOS SDK: http://pastebin.com/0t5NQP0N | 21:16 |
| meShell | ah #qt good idea | 21:16 |
| pawky | :-) | 21:16 |
| meShell | it "may" have to do something with glib ... but mabye I would have to recompile qt qithout glib ... but would be cool to find someone who knows what is is | 21:17 |
| netzvieh | but osunds like glib yes | 21:19 |
| special | meShell: what are you trying to build..? | 21:19 |
| meShell | qt platform plugin | 21:21 |
| meShell | libQt5PlatformSupport.a(qeventdispatcher_glib.o) | 21:21 |
| special | yes, why? | 21:21 |
| special | are you trying to do a custom build of Qt for sailfish, or? | 21:21 |
| meShell | wanted something "special" ... trying to find out if SailfishOS supports qt platform plugin for qt apps . | 21:22 |
| dekiss | someone want to make 2000$ for 2 mobil apps that are so simple they can bedone in 2 hours message me . | 21:23 |
| meShell | ok I am preparing for around q2 this year ... you want to know details? | 21:23 |
| special | meShell: the wayland QPA plugin is used for all applications | 21:23 |
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| meShell | is it possible to launch sailfish qt apps with -plaform xyz? | 21:24 |
| meShell | didn't try it, was trying to compile before trying that | 21:25 |
| special | probably | 21:25 |
| meShell | cool | 21:25 |
| special | you'll find QT_QPA_PLATFORM=wayland in the default environment, that's how it's choosing a plugin now | 21:25 |
| special | but obviously one couldn't change that and still expect to have wayland windows, so I'm still unclear on what you're actually doing | 21:26 |
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| meShell | hehe | 21:26 |
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| meShell | I wouldn't need any wayland window then ... think like weston | 21:26 |
| special | you might find it interesting to look at lipstick | 21:27 |
| special | lipstick is the wayland compositor, uses a different platform to render to a framebuffer or something similar (depending on what target you're discussing) | 21:28 |
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| slate | hmm, new directory in home/ called deploy. Created last night. Inside that a dir called installroot with bunch of subdirs | 21:30 |
| slate | normal? | 21:30 |
| meShell | @special: did you see my query? | 21:30 |
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| meShell | will have a look at lipstick ... I know I read the word in the past somewhere .... | 21:32 |
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| slate | All sensors seen on alien dalvik side are vendored by Myriad Group, so its not raw data but emulated? | 21:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | The vendor IDs are generally rather bogus. | 21:58 |
| SpeedEvil | What they actually mean is what the android driver reports them as | 21:58 |
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| Tatuus | the next update takes us forward from beta phase? what 'cha think | 22:04 |
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| slate | why should it? | 22:04 |
| bennypr0fane | who can tell me how to move files between folders? can I do that in a GUI? | 22:05 |
| bennypr0fane | I have ambience background pics saved on the sdcard, but they don't show up in the Gallery | 22:06 |
| Yaniel | bennypr0fane: get Cargo Dock from the app store | 22:06 |
| bennypr0fane | I suspect I'd need to move them to internal storage | 22:06 |
| bennypr0fane | ? | 22:06 |
| bennypr0fane | Yaniel, is it native? | 22:06 |
| Yaniel | stuff might not show up in gallery / media player immediately as tracker takes some time to index the file system | 22:06 |
| Yaniel | bennypr0fane: yes | 22:07 |
| Yaniel | the best file manager for sailfish I know of | 22:07 |
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| bennypr0fane | afaik there is only one, plus this one you just told me about | 22:07 |
| Yaniel | there is one I never tried, jolla-fileman and cargodock | 22:08 |
| FireFly | there's a jolla one in the repos (not the shop) | 22:08 |
| bennypr0fane | so you mean the images should show in Gallery after a while, even if they're on sdcard? | 22:08 |
| ottulo | jolla-fileman has the benefit that you can install apk and rpm directly through there | 22:08 |
| FireFly | Yaniel: the one you didn't try being the one in the shop? | 22:09 |
| ottulo | but that's pretty much all there is apart from browsing | 22:09 |
| bennypr0fane | FireFly, Yaniel I ahve jolla-fileman installed, it's a huge diappointment | 22:09 |
| FireFly | I kinda liked that one after it got updated a bit | 22:09 |
| FireFly | like* | 22:09 |
| Yaniel | FireFly: yeah | 22:09 |
| bennypr0fane | it doesn't have copy/paste/move features | 22:09 |
| FireFly | "File Browser" by "Kari" | 22:09 |
| FireFly | ↑ that one is nice IMO | 22:09 |
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| bennypr0fane | all you can do is open files and make bookmarks in jolla-fileman | 22:10 |
| Yaniel | yeah I'm guessing that is the reason why jolla-fileman is not in the store (yet) | 22:10 |
| bennypr0fane | and file browser is the same | 22:10 |
| FireFly | bennypr0fane: it does have cut/copy/paste, at least the latest version | 22:10 |
| Yaniel | FireFly: I'll take a look | 22:10 |
| bennypr0fane | it literally lets you just browse them | 22:10 |
| FireFly | An earlier version didn't, which sucked | 22:10 |
| Yaniel | bennypr0fane: try cargodock | 22:10 |
| Yaniel | or mv in the terminal if you know how to use that | 22:10 |
| bennypr0fane | FireFly, which version exactly? | 22:10 |
| FireFly | bennypr0fane: long-press on a dictionary, and check in shop if it's up-to-date | 22:11 |
| bennypr0fane | Yaniel, I'm about to | 22:11 |
| FireFly | "Version 1.3" says About | 22:11 |
| bennypr0fane | dictionary? | 22:11 |
| FireFly | Well, or file I guess | 22:11 |
| FireFly | eh, directory | 22:11 |
| * FireFly blames tiredness | 22:11 | |
| FireFly | Apart from browsing the system tree and cut/copy/paste, it also seems to do xdg-open and "view as hexdump -C output". good enough for a start | 22:12 |
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| bennypr0fane | Firefly, I don't get it. I check my version number how? | 22:16 |
| FireFly | In the pulley menu there's an 'About' all the way to the top | 22:16 |
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| bennypr0fane | in jolla-fileman or in cargodock? | 22:16 |
| FireFly | eh, I meant in "File browser", the one in the shop | 22:17 |
| bennypr0fane | aaaah | 22:17 |
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| FireFly | http://i.imgur.com/y5qo5PF.jpg | 22:17 |
| bennypr0fane | so it made progress | 22:17 |
| bennypr0fane | cool | 22:17 |
| bennypr0fane | the store has been more populated I see | 22:17 |
| bennypr0fane | things starting to move | 22:18 |
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| bennypr0fane | I'm waiting for that larger wave of Meego apps to arrive | 22:18 |
| bennypr0fane | well in this case jolla-fileman is pretty unnecessary for now | 22:19 |
| Yaniel | yay, the earphones for my jolla arrived \o/ | 22:19 |
| bennypr0fane | what kind? | 22:19 |
| FireFly | Lol, nice creation date for those dirs.. 1970 | 22:20 |
| attah | btw.. anyone knows how it does file access? qfile is not allowed right? | 22:20 |
| attah | FireFly: Start of Unix time | 22:21 |
| FireFly | Yeah, I know | 22:21 |
| FireFly | https://github.com/karip/harbour-file-browser is the source code if you want to investigate, btw | 22:21 |
| FireFly | how it does it | 22:21 |
| attah | thx! | 22:22 |
| Yaniel | bennypr0fane: sony xba-h1 | 22:22 |
| Yaniel | as a nice side effect, the colour of the cable matches the poppy red TOH nicely ;D | 22:23 |
| Yaniel | actually the entire device | 22:23 |
| Yaniel | one side black, the other vermilion | 22:23 |
| attah | Yaniel: and how is the sound? | 22:23 |
| Yaniel | kinda bassy for my taste, I guess | 22:24 |
| Yaniel | but good anyway | 22:24 |
| Yaniel | I guess if I'd use these on a plane/train/car it would be just great | 22:24 |
| attah | Yaniel: hmm.. okay, sounds to reasonably fit my intended use | 22:25 |
| Yaniel | as it does to mine | 22:26 |
| Yaniel | however they do isolate a lot | 22:26 |
| attah | but i'm so ridiculously spoiled by by PS500.. so i'm afraid i won't like anything else.. even if it's just for travelling and so on | 22:26 |
| Yaniel | so if your ears are overly sensitive to pressure that might be bad | 22:27 |
| attah | i think that should be ok :) | 22:27 |
| Yaniel | the ps500 (grado?) look a bit too large to casually slip on on the bus ;) | 22:28 |
| attah | yes, grado :) indeed, and that's why I'm looking for iems | 22:28 |
| bennypr0fane | yaniel, I still don't see those pics in Gallery. are you sure they can be seen on sdcard? | 22:29 |
| bennypr0fane | also there in the android folder | 22:29 |
| Yaniel | bennypr0fane: where are they on the sd card? | 22:29 |
| bennypr0fane | *they are | 22:29 |
| Yaniel | I have pics on the sd card and they show up just fine | 22:29 |
| Yaniel | (some photos I carried over from my previous phone) | 22:29 |
| attah | bennypr0fane.. i have one pic in the root of my sdcard.. it shows fine | 22:29 |
| bennypr0fane | I don't quite understand this file system yet. it's a huge maze | 22:30 |
| attah | and you are sure it is really the sdcard you are putting then on? | 22:30 |
| Yaniel | it's not that bad | 22:30 |
| attah | /run/user/100000/media/sdcard/ | 22:30 |
| attah | not that bad eh? | 22:30 |
| FireFly | bennypr0fane: if you happen to be using a non-vfat filesystem for the SD card, I found that manually mounting it doesn't notify the scanner (which makes sense I guess) | 22:31 |
| bennypr0fane | I think the fs is vfat | 22:31 |
| Yaniel | attah: I didn't find memorizing that was a problem | 22:31 |
| FireFly | if it's automounted, it shoudl be | 22:31 |
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| bennypr0fane | attaha I'm actually not sure they're on the card | 22:32 |
| bennypr0fane | I never mounted it manually at least | 22:32 |
| pdanek | Do you know if dirkvl plans to sell/send some keyboard-halfs to donators later on? | 22:32 |
| attah | Yaniel: i know a lot of crazy shit by memory.. but this shall not become one ;) | 22:32 |
| pdanek | Or it's purely only proof of concept? | 22:32 |
| pawky | WTF.... why doesn't the screen rotate when using the web browser???!!! | 22:32 |
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| bennypr0fane | they are under something/something/sdcard/Downloads | 22:32 |
| pawky | I hope this is a bug... | 22:32 |
| Yaniel | pawky: NYI | 22:32 |
| FireFly | pawky: yeah, it doesn't support landscape yet unfortunately | 22:32 |
| pdanek | pawky: not a bug, simply not implemented feature yet | 22:32 |
| Pnuu | pawky: check tjc | 22:33 |
| bennypr0fane | pawky no landscape mode... | 22:33 |
| attah | bennypr0fane: so what did you do? | 22:33 |
| FireFly | Yaniel: that's a new acronym to me | 22:33 |
| pawky | Pnuu: will do.. | 22:33 |
| Yaniel | FireFly: Not Yet Implemented | 22:33 |
| FireFly | Oh | 22:33 |
| FireFly | Makes sense | 22:33 |
| bennypr0fane | is there like a graph of the complete fs tree somewhere? | 22:33 |
| Yaniel | `pkcon install tree && cd / && tree` ? ;) | 22:34 |
| bennypr0fane | ...and is there a way to go up in the hierarchy in cargo dock? | 22:34 |
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| FireFly | Ooo, `tree` respects LS_COLORS | 22:35 |
| FireFly | pretty | 22:35 |
| attah | g33kpr0n | 22:36 |
| FireFly | bennypr0fane: there's findmnt for printing mountpoints, at least | 22:36 |
| bennypr0fane | Yaniel, what is that? | 22:36 |
| Yaniel | tree shows... an ascii representation of the fs tree starting from cwd | 22:37 |
| Yaniel | or its argument, if provided (iirc) | 22:37 |
| bennypr0fane | could it be there are two sdcard folders? one under Jolla and one under Android? | 22:37 |
| Yaniel | yes | 22:37 |
| attah | the 'droid one is in the root | 22:38 |
| bennypr0fane | alright,. then my pics are inside the droid one in the sdcard folder | 22:38 |
| attah | the jolla one is on /run/user/100000/media/sdcard/ | 22:38 |
| bennypr0fane | well the folder named Android is a subdir of /data/sdcard, which is symlinked in / | 22:40 |
| bennypr0fane | which means my pics are in /data/sdcard/Downloads - not a subdir of the Android dir | 22:41 |
| bennypr0fane | does anyone have stuff in /data/sdcard that yr system can't see? | 22:41 |
| Yaniel | where does the symlink point to? | 22:42 |
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| attah | *should* the system see stuff there even? | 22:42 |
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| bennypr0fane | Yaniel, to /data/sdcard | 22:44 |
| bennypr0fane | attah, I dunno | 22:44 |
| attah | i'd go with "no" | 22:44 |
| bennypr0fane | but it looks like a dir from userland | 22:44 |
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| bennypr0fane | why are there two different sdcard locations anyway? | 22:44 |
| attah | sure.. but far from all are indexed by, say the gallery | 22:45 |
| bennypr0fane | ok, Filebrowser is definitely the best we have now | 22:45 |
| bennypr0fane | Cargo dock doesn't even let you navigate properly | 22:46 |
| attah | bennypr0fane: android might want one.. and it's practical to have it without requiring a real sd card | 22:46 |
| attah | so it's just a folder and has nothing to do with the actual sd card, if present | 22:46 |
| bennypr0fane | attah but in that case it should be inside the AlienDalvik vm, no? | 22:46 |
| Yaniel | okay I have no idea what /data/sdcard is pretending to be | 22:46 |
| bennypr0fane | Yaniel are you looking at it? | 22:47 |
| attah | "inside"? | 22:47 |
| Yaniel | yeah | 22:47 |
| attah | well i don't know dalvik | 22:47 |
| Yaniel | and all I can tell is that it definitely is not the physical sd card I inserted in the phone | 22:47 |
| bennypr0fane | Yaniel strange, right? | 22:47 |
| Yaniel | might be some dalvik stuff | 22:47 |
| bennypr0fane | attah, I meant "under" | 22:47 |
| attah | i just assumed it shared storage.. i have an app that has put stuff there | 22:47 |
| Yaniel | put your things in /rin/user/100000/media/sdcard and it should be fine | 22:47 |
| attah | *run | 22:48 |
| Yaniel | yes | 22:48 |
| bennypr0fane | is it possible for android apps to place stuff on the physical sdcard? | 22:48 |
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| attah | bennypr0fane.. make a link? | 22:48 |
| attah | i remember reading that someone did | 22:49 |
| bennypr0fane | I downloaded those pics with an Android app, and it actually offered my just the 4 folders in /data/sdcard for a choice | 22:49 |
| bennypr0fane | ...to store them in | 22:49 |
| attah | i like the fact that android can't spew it's stuff all over the place | 22:50 |
| pawky | has anybody gotten Shazam to work? | 22:50 |
| bennypr0fane | so maybe that's the only part of the file system that Android apps can see | 22:50 |
| pawky | or will android apps not be able to access hardware features like microphone, camera etc? | 22:51 |
| attah | pawky: through wrappers i think | 22:51 |
| pawky | attah, so.. any success with Shazam then? | 22:51 |
| attah | oh.. no.. don't even know what that is :) | 22:52 |
| attah | had a N9 up until now | 22:52 |
| pawky | attah: it complains aobut resource (microphone i presume) being blocked... | 22:52 |
| FireFly | I think camera access is enabled in the latest system update | 22:52 |
| FireFly | the 1.0.2.5 one | 22:52 |
| attah | true | 22:52 |
| attah | so mic might be yet to come? | 22:52 |
| FireFly | No clue | 22:52 |
| FireFly | Probably | 22:52 |
| bennypr0fane | I haven't heard about any complete listing of what Alien Dalvik does and does not get access to. I find as beta testers they should let is know | 22:52 |
| pawky | attah: well its for when you hear that annoying song on the radio, and wants to know what the hell it is, so you can avoid it until kingdom come.... or vise versa... | 22:52 |
| FireFly | bennypr0fane: you could ask on together possibly | 22:53 |
| bennypr0fane | so we can tell which apps it is pointless to try atm | 22:53 |
| attah | pawky.. it usually makes me want to turn off the radio.. but hey.. whatever floats your goat | 22:53 |
| FireFly | pawky: wait, what exactly does it do? | 22:54 |
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| FireFly | It shipped with my previous phone (Nokia E7), but I never even started it since it shipped with a whole bunch of other crap I wasn't interested in as well | 22:54 |
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| pawky | FireFly, it recognizes songs and tellyou what it is, so you can ....acquire them ... | 22:54 |
| FireFly | Oh | 22:54 |
| FireFly | Sounds interesting | 22:54 |
| FireFly | Now I wish I had tried it.. | 22:54 |
| pawky | FireFly it is... | 22:54 |
| pawky | FireFly, i think SonyEricsson was first with such an app... followed by Shazam | 22:55 |
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| attah | exactly | 22:55 |
| pawky | FireFly, great for when you hear some cool song on a commercial, and want to hear the whole song, by example | 22:56 |
| attah | and i think musicbrainz has something like it.. so write a native app? ;) | 22:56 |
| pawky | attah: true, but it isnt as accurate by far, to my experience | 22:56 |
| attah | that's a shame | 22:56 |
| bennypr0fane | finally, the pics have landed in my userland | 22:56 |
| bennypr0fane | these ambiences are amazing | 22:56 |
| pawky | attah, it might have improved by now though... :-) | 22:57 |
| attah | only one way to find out :) | 22:57 |
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| pawky | attah, but I don't believe music brainz will do anything more than scan your MP3's for a mach, not record live stuff, right? | 22:58 |
| FireFly | pawky: does it require an accurate recording, or would it for instance be able to figure things out if I played it on a piano? | 22:58 |
| pawky | FireFly, i was just going to write about it. No it doesn't | 22:58 |
| FireFly | Ah, okay | 22:58 |
| attah | pawky: well, maybe it was one of the other open places i was researching for the cover art app | 22:58 |
| FireFly | Now I feel like messing with a program for doing that... it'd be cool | 22:58 |
| pawky | FireFly: It doesn't matter so much if you have quite low volume, or if someone talks while your trying to figure it out... at least to my experience. | 22:59 |
| pawky | FireFly: It is cool... | 22:59 |
| FireFly | hmm | 22:59 |
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| pawky | well, the idea is.. i don't like any software that collects info of my personal preferences of music an what have not, but then again it has saved me a few times, so at times one migh be able to compromize ;-) | 23:00 |
| pawky | FireFly, it makes a fingerprint of music, so i believe it has to be the original recording. But the quality is not of importance... thats why its quite cool | 23:01 |
| FireFly | Hm | 23:02 |
| pawky | FireFly, you hear it on the TV, you press the scan button, Voila! it will tell you what song you are listening to | 23:02 |
| FireFly | I'd like to try it with some of the bands I listen to.. I wonder how well it'd do | 23:02 |
| pawky | FireFly, its a free app, so just grabb your Android.... whatever and start scanning :-) | 23:02 |
| FireFly | That assumes I have an android :P | 23:03 |
| FireFly | my jolla is my first device capable of running android apps | 23:03 |
| FireFly | I could grab my old phone, but my brother's borrowing it at the moment | 23:03 |
| FireFly | oh well | 23:03 |
| pawky | FireFly: I am fairly sure you can also find such an app for Iphone, etc | 23:03 |
| FireFly | thanks for the tip anyway, good to know about | 23:03 |
| pawky | FireFly: you must own at least a tablet right? | 23:04 |
| FireFly | nope :P | 23:04 |
| FireFly | And no apple devices either | 23:04 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | https://together.jolla.com/question/3050/soundhound-shazam-like-integrated-app-should-be-cool-for-jolla/ | 23:04 |
| pawky | HarhaanJohtaja: there you go :-) | 23:05 |
| pawky | HarhaanJohtaja: The Music Brainz will do it for you, if you want to start coding :-) | 23:05 |
| FireFly | That one mentions a verison of Shazam working actually | 23:05 |
| FireFly | (on the jolla, I mean) | 23:05 |
| attah | ..on an old version though | 23:06 |
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| attah | maybe they disabled the mic in the latest patch? | 23:06 |
| FireFly | Oh, hm | 23:06 |
| pawky | FireFly: Well, Shazam runs without any problems... on my it just cannot access the microphone as it seems locked by some other app, (or the NSA maybe)... | 23:07 |
| pawky | attah, nah, why would they? | 23:07 |
| attah | pawky: nasty security issues? bugs? i dunno | 23:07 |
| FireFly | I wouldn't call Shazam without mic functionality "working" :P | 23:08 |
| special | pawky: attah: a change like that would appear in the changelog. | 23:08 |
| pawky | attah: I think its a service hardware priority issue... | 23:08 |
| Turski | where are user ambiences stored? | 23:08 |
| FireFly | special: some people would say that about the controversial bootloader locking too :P | 23:08 |
| pdanek | Is there any bitcoin client for Sailfish already where I can buy/sell? | 23:08 |
| attah | special: yes, indeed.. thanks for pointing out that i should go to bed :) | 23:08 |
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| pawky | FireFly, whats conroversial about it? | 23:09 |
| special | FireFly: haha, point. | 23:09 |
| pawky | FireFly: what? is the bootloader locked??? | 23:09 |
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| pawky | come on.... no right minded hardware manufacturer would do such a thing would they? | 23:09 |
| FireFly | Yes, temporarily, for user privacy reasons | 23:09 |
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| FireFly | Temporarily meaning it'll be addressed in a future update | 23:10 |
| pawky | FireFly: interesting.... but how exactly would that create privacy?? | 23:10 |
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| special | pawky: it's a bad thing if you can access/overwrite the bootloader without the device's security code. | 23:10 |
| pawky | special: how so? | 23:10 |
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| special | you can easily compromise the device with nothing but a USB cable? | 23:10 |
| pawky | special: I cannot se any bad thing about it | 23:11 |
| pawky | special: hmm.... | 23:11 |
| FireFly | special: imagine if someone steals your company phone in the bar, and is able to extract information from it | 23:11 |
| FireFly | like mail history or messages or something | 23:11 |
| FireFly | er | 23:11 |
| FireFly | pawky* | 23:11 |
| special | the intent is not and never will be to stop you from modifying your device; but stopping others from modifying your security-code-enabled device is important. | 23:11 |
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| pawky | special: great to hear :-) | 23:11 |
| pawky | special: Ok, so it will only be locked if you have created a security code right? | 23:12 |
| FireFly | Yeah, though unfortunately they didn't mention it in the 1.0.2.5 release notes (which performed the change), which triggered a bit of an outrage :p | 23:12 |
| special | I believe it's locked in all cases as of the latest update | 23:12 |
| pawky | I love Jolla, and its product :-D | 23:12 |
| special | (but I don't know the area well at all) | 23:13 |
| FireFly | It's locked, but a future update will provide the functionality to unlock it somehow, probably from the developer mode settings panel or something, as I understand it | 23:13 |
| pawky | Full of right minded people surrounding this hardware :-) | 23:13 |
| special | we love you too | 23:13 |
| pawky | FireFly: well that will do it for me, not that I have to but that I could if I would | 23:14 |
| pawky | Freeeedoooom | 23:14 |
| FireFly | Yeah, that's my POV too basically | 23:15 |
| FireFly | I can imagine myself messing with ARM arch on it if someone does the work to get a multiboot thingy on it | 23:16 |
| pawky | FireFly: I had my Asus Transforme on a shelf for one year, unopened, until a root option was created... | 23:16 |
| FireFly | though I also value not voiding the warranty.. darn, tradeoffs.. | 23:16 |
| pawky | FireFly: port from the N900 maybe? | 23:17 |
| FireFly | Port of what? | 23:17 |
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| pawky | FireFly: a multi boot option? | 23:17 |
| FireFly | Oh | 23:17 |
| FireFly | I guess. I'm not going to mess with that though, I don't want to accidentally brick it by messing with things I don't fully understand | 23:18 |
| special | 0 | 23:18 |
| pawky | FireFly: i believe you can have it on that device, but I never played with it it even if being tempted to | 23:18 |
| FireFly | I mean, I'm not going to be the one getting it to run. I might install it when someone else has done the tricky part :p | 23:18 |
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| * FireFly is lazy :| | 23:18 | |
| FireFly | Yup, I had uboot and an arch image on the N900 | 23:19 |
| pawky | FireFly: yeah thats what its called | 23:19 |
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| dschoepe | special: in the case of the stolen phone, nothing short of encrypting the data stored on the phone will help though, since the thief could just disassemble it and read the contents of the memory card directly | 23:22 |
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| special | dschoepe: yes, of course | 23:23 |
| dschoepe | so how hard it is to circumvent the lockscreen seems unimportant to me in this scenario | 23:23 |
| special | (personally, I really want full disk encryption too.) | 23:23 |
| dschoepe | seconded! | 23:23 |
| pawky | FireFly: you can have Shazam on quite a few devices http://www.shazam.com/music/web/getshazam.html | 23:23 |
| FireFly | I'll just wait 'til I get my old phone back, or the mic works on jolla :-) | 23:24 |
| FireFly | in android apps | 23:24 |
| FireFly | dschoepe: I guess you could argue that it's security by obscurity, but at least there's a considerable difference in effort between "disassemble and manually read memory card" and "flash custom firmware and start phone" | 23:25 |
| pawky | special: cant you just create a crypt file and mount it? | 23:25 |
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| FireFly | but agreed that full disk encryption would be the proper way to handle it | 23:26 |
| pawky | I would go for the "do not loose your phone, or do not put sensitive stuff on it.... " option | 23:26 |
| special | pawky: full disk requires a lot of involvement with the boot process; and on a mobile device, storing/entering a full disk encryption key is ..different. | 23:26 |
| FireFly | You could say that about anything! :P | 23:26 |
| pawky | what is it with todays people suddenly storing sensitive stuff on gadgets? | 23:26 |
| FireFly | "I always use root, I just make sure not to run malware or bad commands" | 23:26 |
| pawky | special: i am talking about creating a dm(?) encrypted file, which you will mount using the loop back interface | 23:27 |
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| dschoepe | FireFly: okay, fair point | 23:27 |
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| FireFly | pawky: *I* don't do it, but I could see the argument being relevant for companies, what with using the device for mail and stuff | 23:27 |
| dschoepe | something like encfs might also work | 23:28 |
| special | pawky: yes, if your goal is to keep a selected set of files private, you can guarantee that information won't leak outside of that area, and you can assume that system files won't be modified, that's fine | 23:28 |
| special | dschoepe: do not use encfs for anything, ever, please. | 23:28 |
| dschoepe | special: How so? | 23:28 |
| pawky | FireFly: didn't we have this company discussion earlier today? ;-) | 23:28 |
| FireFly | Hm | 23:28 |
| pawky | like "do NOT use E-mail to send sensitive info.... " | 23:28 |
| FireFly | ...I guess | 23:29 |
| pawky | i am laughing everyday about the company I work for, regarding its security policy and how they are using mail etc... | 23:29 |
| dschoepe | (I know that it leaks metadata like file sizes and so on, but that's okay in some cases) | 23:29 |
| special | dschoepe: I can't find the article I'm thinking of at the moment, but, it's a nightmare of side channels and bad ideas. | 23:29 |
| pawky | FireFly: when it comes to encryption, can you not create a crypt file in Sailfish as of today? | 23:30 |
| FireFly | I don't know, I've never tried disk encryption | 23:31 |
| FireFly | (on any device) | 23:31 |
| * FireFly adds that to his mental "things to try on next linux install" list | 23:31 | |
| pawky | FireFly: no NOT disk encryption FILE encryption | 23:31 |
| special | pawky: encrypting particularly sensitive information is prudent, but it's useful under a much more limited set of circumstances than full disk encryption | 23:31 |
| FireFly | Oh | 23:31 |
| dschoepe | special: hm, that's odd, so far I haven't heard anything bad about it (and at the moment I'm using it for securing stuff on dropbox, so I'm rather curious) | 23:31 |
| FireFly | pawky: well I'm not the right person to ask about that anyway :P | 23:32 |
| pawky | FireFly: you create one file, in which you have a partion, which you can mount using the loop driver | 23:32 |
| pawky | FireFly: I think it is supported on the N9 | 23:32 |
| pawky | FireFly: at least you have it on the N900 | 23:32 |
| Jonni | pawky: yes, with fuse you can crypt file or loopdevice or partition. | 23:32 |
| dschoepe | special: there's also "ecryptfs" which has "enterprise" in its description on the website, so maybe that's the horrible one :) | 23:32 |
| special | might be. google is providing nothing about whatever specific article I was thinking of | 23:33 |
| pawky | Jonni: thank you, did you read my compliments yesterday by the way? thanks to your help I am now also a happy Jolla owner :-D | 23:33 |
| Jonni | pawky: yes I noticed, thanks. | 23:33 |
| special | it's certainly better than using dropbox directly | 23:33 |
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| pawky | FireFly: so there you are then :-) you can encrypt stuff if you want to :-) | 23:34 |
| FireFly | nice | 23:35 |
| dschoepe | special: I found http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/fulldisclosure/2010-08/0316.html but I'm assuming that's fixed by now | 23:35 |
| special | dschoepe: it's certainly weak by modern standards of cryptography | 23:36 |
| special | although it looks like those three issues were at least in some sense resolved | 23:36 |
| Jonni | and ecryptfs was not enabled in qualcomm kernel by default, but that will also be enabled at some point in future updates most likely. | 23:36 |
| dschoepe | I guess I ought to check up on this and possibly look for alternatives | 23:37 |
| pawky | Jonni: :-) | 23:37 |
| dschoepe | special: thanks for pointing that out in any case | 23:37 |
| special | I'm personally one of those anti-cloud and full-disk-encryption-everywhere people | 23:37 |
| pawky | special: I am the, do not store sensitive stuff, type of person ;-) | 23:38 |
| special | pawky: what's "sensitive"? | 23:38 |
| pawky | special: you decide :-) | 23:39 |
| special | I would answer "nearly everything" | 23:39 |
| dschoepe | special: me too, normally, but I have yet to find a similarly convenient mechanism for synchronisation as dropbox provides | 23:39 |
| pawky | special: really, you mother baking recephy for cookies? | 23:39 |
| dschoepe | (I tried open-source alternatives, but they were all not really up to the task) | 23:40 |
| pawky | dschoepe: not? how come??? | 23:40 |
| dschoepe | (and still cloud-based in a sense, albeit running on my own server, but I don't have physical control over that one either) | 23:40 |
| pawky | dschoepe: to my knowledge there are quite a few ones using ssh that will do it for you | 23:40 |
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| dschoepe | pawky: seafile kept reporting failures to index files and somehow didn't sync some files correctly, for instance | 23:41 |
| pawky | dschoepe: unless you don't trust ssh that is.. | 23:41 |
| Jonni | rsync and rsync-backup :) | 23:41 |
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| pawky | Jonny: exactly what I was thinking about! :-) | 23:41 |
| dschoepe | pawky: owncloud was awfully slow, about a year ago | 23:41 |
| pawky | just create a script | 23:41 |
| dschoepe | Jonni: well, ideally, I'd like something with automated synchronisation | 23:41 |
| pawky | dschoepe: automate your script? | 23:42 |
| special | I'm sure there are solutions out there these days | 23:42 |
| dschoepe | pawky: well, I could use inotify for detecting changes in the directory, but I'd have to do that on the server-side and somehow signal my clients as well, but all this gets messy fast | 23:43 |
| pawky | Jonni: would it be possible to rip the nav softy from the N9 into the Jolla? | 23:43 |
| FireFly | dschoepe: speaking of things that ought to be fixed by now, http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-announce/2014-January/002389.html | 23:43 |
| dschoepe | running unison or so every minute seems rather awful | 23:43 |
| Jonni | pawky: x11 vs wayland, so nothing from N9 will work. | 23:43 |
| Jonni | (or non-GUI console stuff works) :) | 23:43 |
| FireFly | (I guess you could say it's fixde by *now*. as in, today) | 23:43 |
| dschoepe | sparkleshare is still on my list to try though | 23:44 |
| dschoepe | FireFly: yeah, I saw that | 23:44 |
| FireFly | I find it hilarious | 23:45 |
| pawky | Jonni: The offline NAV softy was really one of the things Nokia got very right compared to their competitors... I really hope it will be implemented somehow also on the Jolla | 23:46 |
| dschoepe | FireFly: it's a bit frightening that it took so long to find this, although we've had static analysers for this kind of thing for some time | 23:46 |
| FireFly | I agree | 23:47 |
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| pawky | Jonni: which one is x11 by the way, Jolla? :-) | 23:49 |
| Jonni | n9 | 23:49 |
| pawky | :-( | 23:49 |
| FireFly | why the frown? | 23:50 |
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| pawky | May I address one serious design flaw with this phone?... as it is using swype left right here and there it is very unfortunate its a very slippery phone! I have nearly dropped it 4 times today... | 23:51 |
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| pawky | any unit you have to do actions in a sideway motion should have a none slip material, the N9 was like a soap, but the rubber shell made up for it | 23:52 |
| pdanek | Do you guys prefer Paypal or direct credit card payment? | 23:52 |
| pawky | pdanek: you can pay me in cash if you want :-) | 23:53 |
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| pawky | pdanek: I bought my phone using my card... | 23:53 |
| pdanek | pawky: if you make me good keyboard-half, I pay you a lot | 23:53 |
| pdanek | pawky: I'm suffering sooo hard on Jolla with virtual keyboard | 23:54 |
| pawky | pdanek: here you are :-) http://www.google.se/imgres?biw=1920&bih=1002&tbm=isch&tbnid=DEjILzalOJLLUM%3A&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.onehandedkeyboard.com%2Fhalfqwerty.html&docid=4ASCEZR_G6bszM&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.onehandedkeyboard.com%2Fimagesfolder%2Fhalfkeyboard.jpg&w=375&h=209&ei=LojQUsKpMJLCygOy0oGABg&zoom=1&ved=0CFAQhBwwAA&iact=rc&dur=562&page=1&start=0&ndsp=36 | 23:54 |
| pdanek | pawky: good old N900.... so until there is keyboard-half, N900 is officially a better phone! :D | 23:54 |
| pdanek | hehe | 23:55 |
| pawky | pdanek: you are right, good old N900 :-) | 23:55 |
| pawky | pdanek: you could get half of that one if you want :-D | 23:55 |
| pawky | pdanek: what do you prefer, the left side or the right? ;-) | 23:55 |
| FireFly | pawky: luckily a rubber-covered other half should be easy I suppose | 23:55 |
| FireFly | Possibly suggest it on together, as a potential other half to be provided by Jolla | 23:56 |
| pawky | FireFly: i surely believe so, but it came bundled with the N9 compared to Jolla | 23:56 |
| FireFly | Ah | 23:56 |
| FireFly | I've found it a bit hard to get a good grip on too, so I'd probably buy a rubber cover as well | 23:57 |
| pawky | FireFly: the N900 didn't have it, but by putting a leash on it, you could always "save" it if it jumped out of your hand.. | 23:57 |
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| pawky | FireFly: the N900 had a "leash hole" | 23:57 |
| FireFly | Well, the N900 I could easily pick up and slide out the screen with one hand with | 23:57 |
| FireFly | Safely (or at least I never had any accident that I remember) | 23:58 |
| pawky | FireFly: yeah, Jolla should sell a rubbery back plane... I will buy it | 23:58 |
| pawky | with a leather and leash, ambience to go with it B-) | 23:59 |
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