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| nadriel | Ahoy, | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| nadriel | Anyone where should I report bugs? Don't know if the best way would be through care@jolla | 00:02 |
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| FireFly | I think they're working on some better way to report bugs | 00:03 |
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| nadriel | Dangit.. whatever that was.. | 00:06 |
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| pdanek | I'm now really worried, that Jolla won't arrive until Christmas. :( | 00:10 |
| pdanek | Is there any chance, that it has been already shipped, even if I didn't receive tracking number? | 00:11 |
| faenil | pdanek, don't worry, keep tight :) | 00:18 |
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| faenil | good night o/ | 00:18 |
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| artemma | pdanek: check crowdsourced order status table, see if statuses around your orders are shipped | 00:18 |
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| Turski | nadriel: this channel works too for bug reporting :P | 00:21 |
| Turski | nadriel: there's a handful of jolla developers here | 00:21 |
| pdanek | artemma: where do I find this? | 00:21 |
| pdanek | in shop.jolla.com I still see Order Status: Paid | 00:22 |
| pdanek | and I paid on 11/27/13 | 00:22 |
| artemma | What is qt5-qtdeclarative-import-models2? And what is the normal procedure to figure out the package content? | 00:23 |
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| Turski | pkcon get-details qt5-qtdeclarative-import-models2 | 00:24 |
| artemma | pdanek https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqcXroZyLBjPdGJ4WmhOMlZBaVdEc2g1TmY3cXNLeWc&usp=drive_web | 00:24 |
| Dima^ | allright.. I'm gonna sell my N9 | 00:24 |
| artemma | Turski: thanks. Didn't clarify enough for me though :/ | 00:25 |
| artemma | Is it needed for XmlListModel for example? | 00:25 |
| pdanek | Do you think shipping country matters? (except Finland) | 00:26 |
| pdanek | Or it's all about who pre-ordered 1st? | 00:26 |
| pdanek | If I knew shipping country matters, I would ship to Poland instead of Slovakia maybe. | 00:26 |
| Turski | artemma: i have no idea | 00:27 |
| Turski | artemma: you probably should ask google | 00:27 |
| artemma | Hmm, import QtQuick.XmlListModel 2.0 is enough for photoviewer, but in my app I get Uncaught exception: XmlListModel is not defined | 00:27 |
| Turski | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91116 | 00:28 |
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| pdanek | artemma: thanks for link, it's perfect | 00:33 |
| pdanek | artemma: already fixed the data of my order there :) | 00:33 |
| artemma | ah, that was missing XmlListModel import in my test file | 00:35 |
| artemma | pdanek, u r welcome | 00:35 |
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| pdanek | Do you think Jolla already attracted same or more developers than Hartmann did, or not even close? | 01:09 |
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| Yaniel | so um | 01:19 |
| Yaniel | how do I boot the phone when it has < 15% battery and is charging | 01:19 |
| Yaniel | it powers on but only shows the "charging" symbol + percentage | 01:19 |
| Yaniel | doesn't boot to the actual UI | 01:19 |
| Yaniel | (or I'm doing something wrong) | 01:20 |
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| pdanek | http://forum.jollausers.com/jolla-phone/first-jolla-droptest/ | 02:23 |
| pdanek | hm... my N900 dropped to pavement so many times and survived like a tank | 02:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Get a third party warranty. | 02:24 |
| SpeedEvil | ^that covers accidental damage | 02:24 |
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| pdanek | has this IRC channel become like semi-official? | 03:39 |
| pdanek | considering topic like: business inquiries at info@jolla.com | 03:39 |
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| smokex | single # channels are indeed official pdanek | 04:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Or legacy ones nobodies complained about | 04:58 |
| SpeedEvil | #nethack springs to mind | 04:58 |
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| Nicd- | smokex: this channel is not official | 07:20 |
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| Stskeeps | good morning | 07:55 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer05: you're berlin based aren't you, or do i remember wrong? | 07:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope, other end | 07:57 |
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| Stskeeps | okiedokie | 07:58 |
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| CoderCandy | Hi people! | 08:32 |
| Stskeeps | hewwo | 08:33 |
| CoderCandy | Guess what kind of phone I have | 08:33 |
| Stskeeps | a nexus 4? | 08:33 |
| CoderCandy | Nope | 08:33 |
| CoderCandy | A really old Nokia, because the estimated delivery time for Jolla is long as hell :< | 08:34 |
| CoderCandy | But this thursday or somewhere in the next week it should FINALLY be here! | 08:34 |
| CoderCandy | Soo... What can I expect when it actually arrives? | 08:34 |
| Stskeeps | it said 3-4 weeks from payment time when you ordered, didn't it? | 08:36 |
| Stskeeps | many are getting it before though | 08:36 |
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| ShadowJK | Awesomeness and an unpolished diamond | 08:37 |
| Stskeeps | ShadowJK: the jolla? | 08:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:37 |
| ShadowJK | that's what reviewers say | 08:37 |
| ShadowJK | :P | 08:37 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 08:37 |
| * ShadowJK is waiting for his still | 08:37 | |
| Stskeeps | polishing is for updates ;) | 08:37 |
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| MFaro-Tusino | off topic n00b question - how do you get the formatting like " () ShadowJK is waiting for his still" | 08:56 |
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| CoderCandy | oh | 08:57 |
| CoderCandy | I haven't gotten mine yet though :( | 08:58 |
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| Stskeeps | MFaro-Tusino: /me does something | 08:59 |
| nadriel | i have and i like it. | 08:59 |
| * MFaro-Tusino tests what stskeeps said | 08:59 | |
| MFaro-Tusino | WOO | 08:59 |
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| tbr | In that sense I have a banana phone. got it fully green and it's now ripening with me, the customer. ;) | 09:01 |
| nadriel | CoderCandy, It's not just Jolla, for some weird reason my jolla took 5 days to get from Vantaa Itella logistics center to Turku. | 09:01 |
| Stskeeps | jolla, the true bananaphone | 09:01 |
| tbr | yup, exactly my thought | 09:02 |
| tbr | banana-other-half? | 09:02 |
| CoderCandy | nadriel, ah, you got tracking on your? | 09:02 |
| nadriel | Well, there was weekend in between, but you'd think during christmasttime they've got people over weekends in logistics | 09:02 |
| CoderCandy | yours* | 09:02 |
| tbr | turns more yellow with every update | 09:02 |
| nadriel | CoderCandy, already got mine in hand. | 09:02 |
| CoderCandy | ah | 09:02 |
| nadriel | Got on wednesday | 09:02 |
| CoderCandy | I ordered mine at 28th of November | 09:02 |
| nadriel | I was preorderer in 1st wave | 09:03 |
| CoderCandy | I don't know which one I was in | 09:03 |
| CoderCandy | Probably not first anyway | 09:03 |
| nadriel | Stskeeps, mine tends to go pink/purple. I want bananayellow. | 09:03 |
| nadriel | Did you get a beanie or t-shirt with your order or was there even a chance? | 09:04 |
| CoderCandy | don't think so | 09:05 |
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| CoderCandy | no I did not get the chance to get any sort of other stuff | 09:05 |
| CoderCandy | except for the jolla itself that is. | 09:05 |
| CoderCandy | I really hope there will be a HW keyboard OH at some point.. | 09:05 |
| nadriel | Oh, maybe not preorderer then. HW kbd would be nice, even though this finger term and virtual kbd works fine. | 09:06 |
| nadriel | My old phone was HTC Desire Z. | 09:06 |
| CoderCandy | I joined when there was this $0 prebooking whatever | 09:06 |
| nadriel | Aaaa, then you're preorderer and they'll work their asses off to get the phone for you and apologize in the mix for taking so long. | 09:07 |
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| CoderCandy | Hahaha, lol | 09:08 |
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| * mattaustin has a Nexus 4 haning around which was used for Android app development (never as my actual phone). Will use my Jolla as my phone, but if you will need beta testers on other hardware, I volunteer! | 09:11 | |
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| nadriel | http://www.jollatides.com/2013/11/29/jolla-how-to-access-google-play/ | 09:20 |
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| Nicd- | their command is broken | 09:28 |
| Nicd- | since -- is turned into – | 09:28 |
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| nadriel | Nicd-: ah ok. | 09:37 |
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| nander | http://www.baldursgate.com/android.en.html << would this work on jolla? | 09:40 |
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| nadriel | nander: probly | 09:43 |
| Nicd- | if the specs allow it | 09:43 |
| nander | It used to run on (I think) 64 MHz ;) | 09:44 |
| nander | Back in '98 | 09:44 |
| nadriel | I bought BGII several times. : ) | 09:45 |
| nadriel | Them bloody CD's kept blowing up in the drive. | 09:46 |
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| Nicd- | nander: yeah but these reimplemented games usually require higher specs | 09:46 |
| Nicd- | my dual-core macbook barely runs Descent II as released by GoG | 09:47 |
| nadriel | Interweb claims tegra 2 or equivalent, android 4.0 or newer and at least 2,5 GB or free space | 09:49 |
| nadriel | s/or/of | 09:49 |
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| Dotti | Screen on jolla might be too small for that. I ported GemRB (with BG2) to N9 but it was not really playable | 09:53 |
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| nadriel | Hoh, Jolla might have too many pixels for Arcanum. : ) | 09:56 |
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| nadriel | I recently replayed it with my 27" 2560x1440 display. Them pixels were more like boxes they were big. | 09:57 |
| nadriel | boxels | 09:57 |
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| Tofe | morning! | 09:58 |
| nadriel | morning | 09:59 |
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| Tofe | I'm getting nearer to my jolla phone :) | 10:01 |
| Milo- | physically or emotionally? | 10:01 |
| nadriel | You should take this time and be in solitude so you will enjoy it even more. | 10:02 |
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| Milo- | or you could install the SDK and be like "what the heck is qml" ._· | 10:02 |
| Tofe | physically, at least | 10:02 |
| Tofe | Milo-: qml is great ! | 10:03 |
| Milo- | I'm so very confused by that. | 10:03 |
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| Stskeeps | http://qmlbook.org/ | 10:04 |
| Tofe | The approach is a bit new, but the learning curve is steep | 10:05 |
| Milo- | last time I did qt-development was when qml was still in experimental stage | 10:05 |
| Milo- | back when n900 was released. | 10:05 |
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| Tofe | well, the basics are still there | 10:06 |
| nadriel | Wow, you must be like... Ancient in terms of modern technology. | 10:06 |
| nadriel | But are you obsolete? | 10:06 |
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| Milo- | Stskeeps a book about qt5, but isn't it qt4.8 or 4.9 in the sailfishOS? | 10:07 |
| Stskeeps | no | 10:07 |
| Stskeeps | qt5 | 10:07 |
| Stskeeps | we changed in mid product | 10:07 |
| Tofe | hopefully :) | 10:07 |
| Milo- | oh. makes sense. | 10:07 |
| Milo- | been scanning nemo repos and saw a lot's of qt5 references from several months ago | 10:08 |
| Milo- | but couldn't say for sure if it was for future or for current versions. | 10:08 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, we kinda decided it was a good bet at the time, despite delays caused | 10:09 |
| Tofe | qt5 really brings new horizons | 10:09 |
| Milo- | bleeding edge, in so many ways :) | 10:09 |
| Stskeeps | for something that was experimental technology a year ago, we're quite well alogn, yeah | 10:10 |
| Milo- | Todo | 10:12 |
| Milo- | To be written | 10:12 |
| Milo- | hah :) | 10:12 |
| Tofe | boarding, bye! | 10:15 |
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| nadriel | Aw man, for some reassons when I try to load email from the notifications windows they don't load. | 10:19 |
| Nicd- | nadriel: white screen? | 10:20 |
| nadriel | Yarp | 10:20 |
| Nicd- | yeah it does that | 10:20 |
| Nicd- | usually if you try to open them too quickly | 10:20 |
| nadriel | Well, wiping left to right and then tapping on the email makes it reload. | 10:21 |
| nadriel | Basically it informs you then it loads the mail? | 10:22 |
| Nicd- | dunno what it does | 10:22 |
| TheBootroo | WHO THE FUCK DESTROYED THE SPREADSHEET ? | 10:24 |
| atlaz | Has anyone figured out why gif-animations don't always seem to load? Browsing imgur on the shitter gets annoying when you gotta reload the page to view the animation | 10:24 |
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| TheBootroo | ggabriel: why can't i find he spreadsheet anymore ? did the author delete it ? | 10:26 |
| Milo- | TheBootroo how's your shipment going? | 10:26 |
| TheBootroo | Milo-: no update since 27th nov :-( | 10:26 |
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| TheBootroo | you guys don't understand why spreadsheet was SOOO important : it was something we could refresh and actually see moving, not like our freaking frozen order page which didn't move yet... | 10:30 |
| TheBootroo | now back refreshing that bloody page, and whinning on IRC as there is nothing else i can do | 10:31 |
| Nicd- | what was the spreadsheet url? | 10:31 |
| TheBootroo | Nicd-: dunno, i starred it in my Gdoc and now i can't see it anymore | 10:32 |
| Nicd- | who created it? | 10:32 |
| TheBootroo | dunno | 10:32 |
| Milo- | it seemed a bit illegal if I'm honest. | 10:32 |
| Milo- | plus it's not very factual as jolla did have some shipping problems | 10:33 |
| TheBootroo | Milo-: whatever you can say, it WAS moving | 10:33 |
| Milo- | which caused series of phones not to be shipped, while phones ordered/paid later on got delivered. | 10:33 |
| Milo- | I got my phone before someone whose order number started with 1, and the last numbers were between 1 and 50. | 10:35 |
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| nadriel | My order nmbr was 106 and I got it on this wednesday. | 10:36 |
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| Milo- | are you a "first one" orderer? | 10:36 |
| nadriel | Ye | 10:36 |
| nadriel | "the first one" | 10:37 |
| TheBootroo | my order is #200002549 so i can die before i get it | 10:37 |
| nadriel | Uh oh.. You in fin? | 10:37 |
| TheBootroo | no | 10:37 |
| TheBootroo | france | 10:37 |
| nadriel | I hope you can get yours before christmas.. Mail is getting slower during evetry christmas. | 10:38 |
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| nadriel | It's kind of funny to get a greeting card sent in december in January | 10:38 |
| TheBootroo | nadriel: frankly i don't believe in it anymore | 10:39 |
| TheBootroo | too many not-shipped people before me | 10:39 |
| nadriel | But hey | 10:39 |
| nadriel | There's going to be second update soon | 10:39 |
| hene- | really? | 10:39 |
| nadriel | You'll get better device in hands than I did. : ) | 10:39 |
| hene- | when? | 10:39 |
| nadriel | I think they promised one in beginning of january. Don't trust me, I'm not a reliable source. | 10:40 |
| Stskeeps | we already shipped first before most people got their devices, so, Soon(TM) | 10:40 |
| Milo- | I walked into a DNA-store and bought my device from there | 10:40 |
| hene- | nadriel: okok :) | 10:40 |
| nadriel | Stskeeps, high hopes for the OS. | 10:42 |
| TheBootroo | Stskeeps: is someone working on order @jolla today ? | 10:42 |
| Stskeeps | TheBootroo: i wouldn't know, sorry | 10:42 |
| nadriel | Works more intuively than android, imo. | 10:42 |
| TheBootroo | anyway, as spreadsheet is dead, we can't see any update until our own order get processed | 10:42 |
| TheBootroo | IMHO, Jolla should care more about not disappointing fans, becaus they are pretty much all they have ATM, without fans, Jolla is going to fail | 10:44 |
| TheBootroo | and fans can't be happy with generic PR message on twitter, copy-an-pasted to each and everyone | 10:44 |
| nadriel | Well, I'd appreaciate the fast informs if there's problem with shipping etc. | 10:45 |
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| * TheBootroo put all his money (don't have a lot) on his Jolla for Christmas and isn't going to have any other gift, and now really depressed about not having it in time.... only 10 days remaining to get it picked, shipping, shipped, and delivered.... | 10:49 | |
| TheBootroo | :-( | 10:49 |
| Nicd- | yes, we know, you've told us many times | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | we're sad to announce that santa got a jolla and no longer cares about anything else than playing with it | 10:51 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:51 |
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| TheBootroo | i really can't understand why shipping ~4k device can take more than 3 weeks (yeah 3 weeks since start of orders) | 10:51 |
| Nicd- | they said they had problems with shipping | 10:52 |
| TheBootroo | Stskeeps: grrr, no more in mood of doing/reading jokes | 10:52 |
| nadriel | Stskeeps: : D | 10:52 |
| nadriel | Santa's a dirty old f*cker | 10:52 |
| TheBootroo | Nicd-: on the small amout of phones that were already processed, let's say 200, now that issue is fixed, all should go faster, but it doesn't, at least doesn't seems so | 10:53 |
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| AL13N_lizzy | only 200 phones processed? i don't believe that at all | 10:55 |
| nadriel | At least 450. : ) | 10:55 |
| AL13N_lizzy | imho several k's are already delivered | 10:55 |
| AL13N_lizzy | there's even 5 jolla's on ebay and one already sold | 10:56 |
| Nicd- | clock app has been downloaded 3600 times so I'd estimate at least 2000 jollas | 10:57 |
| nadriel | Clock app needs function that calculates the sleeptime. : ) | 10:58 |
| Nicd- | oh yeah, pizza online added their android app to jolla store \o/ | 10:58 |
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| Nicd- | hope they'll make a native one too | 10:59 |
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| Kiranos | TheBootroo: again relax, it wont get better no matter the x-amount of times you say you want your device before christmas, you have to come to terms that jolla isnt samsung/apple | 11:01 |
| Nicd- | also spare us from your whining | 11:01 |
| nadriel | Drink beer and be merry | 11:02 |
| Quu | Nicd-: maybe not everyone have downloaded the clock.. :p | 11:03 |
| Nicd- | Quu: that would just make the amount of jollas in circulation higher | 11:04 |
| Quu | yes. | 11:04 |
| Nicd- | hehe, circulation :P | 11:04 |
| Nicd- | maybe not the best word | 11:04 |
| Quu | i know couple people who havent installed anything yet | 11:04 |
| AL13N_lizzy | jolla on eBAY: Sold at 850£; $1050 (9h left); 315£ (1d left); 680£ (2d left); $570 (4d left); $585 (5d left) | 11:05 |
| TheBootroo | Kiranos: i('ll) never give my money to Apple/Samsung as I don't trust them, but i used to trust Jolla, so i gave my money to them, that's the reason i care / whine | 11:05 |
| Quu | TheBootroo: they said youll get it in december. | 11:06 |
| Quu | its december | 11:06 |
| TheBootroo | Quu: they also said many other things that weren't true, so i don't see why this december thing would be respected than the rest | 11:06 |
| Kiranos | ok :) dont know what your trust issues are with the others but I have an ipad and a samsung tv, I got what I bought, no issues | 11:06 |
| Kiranos | TheBootroo: its a beta phone manly targeted to developers and tech geeks. Its what you expect | 11:07 |
| Kiranos | or beta os that is | 11:07 |
| TheBootroo | Kiranos: trust issue are not about the fact they can take your money happily and give you a device, but more about their intentions and philosophy | 11:07 |
| Kiranos | well its buisness, make money sheddar :) | 11:07 |
| Stskeeps | regarding update2: | 11:08 |
| TheBootroo | Kiranos: i"m a dev, i don't have any issue with beta os | 11:08 |
| Stskeeps | Stefano Mosconi @zzste 3m | 11:08 |
| Stskeeps | @AnttiSaarnio we target another bugfix update before EOY. New features during Q1/14. // @vheikkol @JollaHQ | 11:08 |
| Quu | yay | 11:08 |
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| Nicd- | Stskeeps's first line (with "Stefano Mosconi") breaks my weechat :o | 11:09 |
| nadriel | Stskeeps, kewl | 11:09 |
| TheBootroo | as i leave on saturday, i need the phone on friday at least, so if it takes 24/48h to deliver, it must absolutely be processed monday, tuesday or wednesday | 11:09 |
| TheBootroo | so if it isn't the case, expect to see me here, on IRC, whinning and raging more than you have ever seen in your life | 11:10 |
| TheBootroo | so @Jolla, you have 3 days, deal with it | 11:10 |
| Kiranos | TheBootroo: be prepared that its not coming and dont get your hopes up, if it arrives take it as a surprise, | 11:10 |
| Stskeeps | i hope it comes during next week, too, personally | 11:10 |
| Stskeeps | and i'm at a higher number than TheBootroo | 11:10 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:10 |
| nadriel | I'm going to add fuel to the flame | 11:11 |
| stephg | TheBootroo there's nothing we can do about it, try to be patient, there's lots of us waiting also | 11:11 |
| TheBootroo | Kiranos: i can't, it's my only xmas gift, how cool will be xmas party if everyone but me has its gift ? | 11:11 |
| Stskeeps | TheBootroo: oh i tried that | 11:11 |
| Milo- | Stskeeps you haven't received your personal jolla phone yet? :P | 11:11 |
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| Stskeeps | Milo-: no, i ordered too late | 11:11 |
| nadriel | It's magical, you're missing a lot | 11:11 |
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| Kiranos | everyone hopes that it comes as fast as possible, I dont think its one out there that says, we'll I hope it comes first in january, id hate to get it til christmas" | 11:11 |
| Milo- | ah. :) | 11:11 |
| TheBootroo | would be curious to know which priority order have been chosen for this week | 11:12 |
| TheBootroo | is it the order number or some random stuff ? | 11:12 |
| Milo- | TheBootroo you could start doing what you are supposed to do though. | 11:12 |
| Milo- | furiously developing sailfishOS native applications while waiting for your device! | 11:12 |
| TheBootroo | i mean, have my order any chance to be processed in sequential ranking or not | 11:12 |
| Stskeeps | TheBootroo: i'm fairly sure they're sequential | 11:13 |
| nadriel | But hey, if you don't have your new phone on christmas you have more time for relatives and shit, you know being social. ; D | 11:13 |
| TheBootroo | Milo-: nope, i've been doing it, already one app in store, and two under the hood, but i won't produce anything more until i get my phone | 11:13 |
| TheBootroo | nadriel: i don't like social stuff | 11:13 |
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| nadriel | Don't be all monday person on christmas. | 11:14 |
| TheBootroo | anyway, i don't see what i could do now : spreadsheet is in /dev/null, TMO thread is annoying as hell cause full of idiots dueling about semantics, and order page fuc***n frozen.... | 11:16 |
| stephg | TheBootroo look at the revision history in the spreadsheet (unless the sheet itself was deleted) | 11:16 |
| Nicd- | TheBootroo: you could be quiet for a while | 11:17 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | TheBootroo: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqcXroZyLBjPdGJ4WmhOMlZBaVdEc2g1TmY3cXNLeWc&usp=sharing#gid=0 | 11:19 |
| nadriel | Oh that's just a whole new fanboy level. : | | 11:21 |
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| TheBootroo | stephg: deleted it was | 11:31 |
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| TheBootroo | Nicd-: NO. | 11:44 |
| TheBootroo | HarhaanJohtaja: thx for restored version | 11:48 |
| TheBootroo | this (epic) spreadsheet has one therapeutic effect : makes us feel less alone in desperation | 11:48 |
| nadriel | http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/sigarch/projects/sensornode/ | 11:49 |
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| nadriel | Webserver turned into Marvin. :) | 11:51 |
| AL13N_lizzy | TheBootroo: which apps are you working on? http://elinux.org/Jolla#Interesting_native_apps_possibly_in_the_works | 11:51 |
| TheBootroo | AL13N_work: CityBike -> PUBLISHED, Feedly Client with offline mode -> WIP, StackExchange client -> WIP | 11:52 |
| AL13N_lizzy | ok, i'll add | 11:53 |
| AL13N_lizzy | added http://elinux.org/Jolla#Interesting_native_apps_possibly_in_the_works | 11:53 |
| AL13N_lizzy | TheBootroo: is it called CityBike'me or CityBike ? | 11:54 |
| TheBootroo | CityBike'me | 11:54 |
| AL13N_lizzy | ok, then i got it right the first time :-) | 11:54 |
| TheBootroo | the two others are Feed'me and Staq'me | 11:54 |
| AL13N_lizzy | oic | 11:54 |
| AL13N_lizzy | i'll change those names | 11:54 |
| TheBootroo | some recurrent naming scheme | 11:54 |
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| TheBootroo | cybette: are you working today ? | 12:12 |
| Nicd- | probably not, it's sunday | 12:13 |
| cybette | TheBootroo: i'm working on updating Jolla's chinese SoMe (it's been sadly neglected recently due to everything else going on) and some planning stuff for next week | 12:15 |
| cybette | Nicd-: what's sunday? :) | 12:15 |
| TheBootroo | cybette: if you are working does it mean some guys are working at shipping too ? | 12:16 |
| Nicd- | cybette: hehehe | 12:16 |
| TheBootroo | (eg: updating website to match real shpping status ?) | 12:16 |
| Nicd- | cybette: it's a day when you get out of your office and see the sun. doesn't work this time of year though | 12:16 |
| cybette | TheBootroo: honestly i don't know. at least friday they were working late into the night. | 12:18 |
| cybette | Nicd-: ah yes, sun. maybe i'll see it in a few months | 12:18 |
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| Nicd- | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjXVQbyiAWE -- MTV3 "rebooted" on the air last night :D | 12:25 |
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| Acce | Nicd-, :D | 12:29 |
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| macmaN | that is indeed funny | 12:30 |
| nadriel | Nicd-, someone wanted to see from television what he was doing. | 12:30 |
| Nicd- | I saw it live, was a little WTF moment | 12:30 |
| Acce | reminds me of the entertainment system on Finnair planes, it's also based on linux and after seating you can watch it boot | 12:30 |
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| Nicd- | of course the national papers had headlines "STRANGE CODE TOOK OVER MTV'S PROGRAMME" | 12:31 |
| nadriel | I bet the maintainer was watching the same show. ; ) | 12:31 |
| Yaniel | Nicd-: did they? | 12:31 |
| Acce | Yaniel: yep, seems so | 12:32 |
| stephg | CentOS 5.5 | 12:33 |
| stephg | oooooold | 12:33 |
| Acce | I guess they use linux to show onscreen texts and stuff? or does someone know better | 12:33 |
| Nicd- | Yaniel: what? | 12:34 |
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| Yaniel | was it mentioned in any newspaper | 12:35 |
| Acce | by the way, does someone know how Jolla is supposed to handle multiple email accounts? I added an account today but only mails from first account are showing up | 12:35 |
| Nicd- | Yaniel: http://www.iltasanomat.fi/viihde/art-1288632419092.html | 12:35 |
| Nicd- | Acce: I have 4 accounts and they are working fine | 12:36 |
| Yaniel | dat misinformation | 12:36 |
| Nicd- | yeah | 12:37 |
| Nicd- | I remember an article about people who had gotten MMS's from 1970 | 12:37 |
| nadriel | Lol, käskyrivejä. : ) | 12:38 |
| Nicd- | some manager from the operator said in an interview that she thinks they may have been testing MMS features back in 1970 and the messages had gotten stuck in the system | 12:38 |
| Nicd- | and only now got through | 12:38 |
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| Acce | Nicd-: so that's how you do 30 years worth of testing! | 12:39 |
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| Yaniel | nadriel: I'm pretty worried it the guy who said that was really one of the maintenance guys | 12:41 |
| Yaniel | like the article implies | 12:41 |
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| nadriel | Yaniel: Well there must be a reason they're working for MTV and not google. : ) | 12:48 |
| Acce | well either the maintenance guy was that "it's not working, let's reboot" type, or then he thought the readers wouldn't know anyways even if he explained it properly | 12:54 |
| nadriel | Acce, "we were in the processs of feeding the Linux servers, those things eat like crazy and if they get too hungry they start firing hieroglyphs all over the screen" | 12:56 |
| nadriel | That would've been epic. | 12:57 |
| Acce | :D | 12:57 |
| Yaniel | <insert server farm joke> | 12:58 |
| nadriel | Server farmer http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Farmer,_Nicaragua.jpg | 12:58 |
| Acce | heh.. maybe in the future we will grow biological computers on the fields | 12:59 |
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| Acce | Then the server farms would become proper terminology | 13:00 |
| Yaniel | will turning them off be considered murder then= | 13:00 |
| Yaniel | ? | 13:00 |
| nadriel | Yeah, and this will be the last one. Farmer of tomorrow http://www.adweek.com/files/imagecache/node-detail/news_article/ram-farmer_0.jpg | 13:00 |
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| Acce | Does someone know how simultaneous key presses are best handled in QML? | 13:11 |
| Acce | if I want to use the auto repetition | 13:11 |
| Yaniel | isn't there a keyRepeated signal or something? | 13:12 |
| Acce | the KeyEvent has property isAutoRepeat, do you mean that? | 13:13 |
| Yaniel | yes | 13:13 |
| Acce | the problem is that if I press second key, the first key stops autorepeating | 13:13 |
| Yaniel | ah | 13:13 |
| Yaniel | I think that is how Qt key input works | 13:13 |
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| Acce | For now I made some bools for each key and then set them and check them when timer is triggered | 13:14 |
| Yaniel | works | 13:14 |
| Acce | yeah, just wondering if there is some "proper" or better way to do it | 13:14 |
| Yaniel | if you want multiple repeated keys... well I'm guessing something messy is going down | 13:15 |
| Yaniel | and you might want to rethink your approach | 13:15 |
| Yaniel | is it really repeats that you are interested in etc.. | 13:15 |
| Acce | hmm.. well, how would you implement moving an object with the arrow keys? rotate on left and right, and move forward with up key? | 13:20 |
| Acce | I guess the timer approach is good for me, because there might be some objects that need to move without user interaction | 13:20 |
| Yaniel | umm yes you totally don't want to rely on keyrepeat events for that | 13:21 |
| Yaniel | 1. there are only a handful of keys you are interested in | 13:21 |
| Yaniel | 2. the keys are actually irrelevant :P | 13:21 |
| Yaniel | so if you get a keyDown event and the key is one of your controls, set the corresponding control flag to true | 13:22 |
| Yaniel | and when you receive a keyUp event for that key, clear that flag | 13:22 |
| Yaniel | then just check the flag in your logic | 13:22 |
| Yaniel | the control scheme is irrelevant to that | 13:23 |
| Yaniel | rotate + forward might work depending on your app | 13:23 |
| Yaniel | but don't go polling keys all the time | 13:23 |
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| Acce | Ok, thanks for the advice! | 13:25 |
| nander | will games made using pygame be allowed in store in the future? | 13:26 |
| Yaniel | not that this also allows you to configure your controls much easier | 13:26 |
| Yaniel | note* | 13:26 |
| Yaniel | since you can just change the key->control action mapping | 13:27 |
| Yaniel | and store all mappings in one place | 13:27 |
| nander | sdl is annoyingly lowlevel | 13:27 |
| Yaniel | nander: pygame is essentially a python wrapper for SDL? | 13:27 |
| Yaniel | afaik | 13:27 |
| nander | lol, qt5 has canvas ;) | 13:28 |
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| Yaniel | but yes I'd think so, once python is allowed in the first place etc | 13:28 |
| Yaniel | nander: si did Qt4 | 13:28 |
| Yaniel | so* | 13:28 |
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| nander | Canvas is a lot more nice to use than sdl.. | 13:29 |
| nander | If it is able to keep decent framerates | 13:29 |
| nander | I'm gonna try to port some js I already did on html5 canvas to qml canvas | 13:30 |
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| Yaniel | dunno, SDL is quite limited to its specific field | 13:31 |
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| Yaniel | or at least used to be | 13:31 |
| Yaniel | I have yet to look at SDL2 | 13:31 |
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| nander | SDL didn't even seem to be amazingly fast | 13:32 |
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| nander | It could be that it limits to native refresh rate though | 13:32 |
| Yaniel | what do you expect from a sw blit | 13:32 |
| Yaniel | well now it has hw acceleration too | 13:32 |
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| Turski | Yaniel: at least python is already in repos | 13:35 |
| Yaniel | good | 13:36 |
| nander | is it possible to use pure html5 in qt? | 13:37 |
| Yaniel | QWebkitView | 13:38 |
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| Chaz6 | Not sure if this is of any interest to anyone http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2013/12/13/opera-launches-commercial-grade-chromiumblink-engine/ | 13:40 |
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| M4rtinK | well, after the recent LG phone-home fiasco, I've decided any multimedia setup will be self built & using FOSS software | 13:49 |
| M4rtinK | so good luck Opera with those set top boxes :) | 13:49 |
| Yaniel | $linuxdistro + mpd | 13:50 |
| Yaniel | and mpv or something for videos | 13:51 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, regarding hardware for such setup, I'm thinking about cubox | 13:51 |
| Stskeeps | how would sailfish for TV look to you guys? | 13:52 |
| M4rtinK | should have quite good performance, comes with a case & has IR (in/out) interface built in | 13:52 |
| Chaz6 | Our ouya running xbmc works well | 13:52 |
| Yaniel | for tv? hmm | 13:52 |
| Chaz6 | It has a tiny board that can do 1080p | 13:52 |
| Yaniel | no touch interface there I guess | 13:52 |
| Yaniel | maybe if you have a wiimote or so | 13:53 |
| M4rtinK | hmm, using swipe gestures on a big touchscreen tv :) | 13:53 |
| Chaz6 | Some tv's are now shipping with a kinect clone | 13:53 |
| Chaz6 | for gestures | 13:53 |
| Stskeeps | perhaps think jolla phone + tv | 13:53 |
| Yaniel | but in general I think steam big picture mode is pretty good | 13:53 |
| Yaniel | jolla phone + tv is a different thing :P | 13:53 |
| Stskeeps | ie, phone as remote control | 13:53 |
| Chaz6 | Really with miracast you can use your phone as the media centre :) | 13:53 |
| Yaniel | I imagine that would work somewhat like jolla phone + mpd | 13:53 |
| Stskeeps | and please don't suggest 'web browsing on the tv' | 13:54 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:54 |
| Stskeeps | worst usecase, ever | 13:54 |
| Yaniel | please, no | 13:54 |
| Yaniel | Stskeeps: have you had a look at smpc in the app store? | 13:54 |
| Stskeeps | i didn't | 13:54 |
| Yaniel | that's about how I'd imagine using the phone as a remote | 13:54 |
| Yaniel | just with a better ui | 13:54 |
| Yaniel | the current one is quite crude | 13:55 |
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| Stskeeps | oh talk.maemo.org: http://host-d.oddcast.com/php/application_UI/doorId=1177/clientId=299/?mId=53328249.3 | 14:02 |
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| Yaniel | glorious :D | 14:11 |
| Yaniel | and kind of creepy | 14:11 |
| ShadowJK | What is it? | 14:12 |
| Yaniel | jolla guys as christmas elves | 14:12 |
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| phdeswer | Well stezz, Tommi, Marc, cybette and w00t I believe | 14:20 |
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| covox | ok no sleep tonight | 14:26 |
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| cybette | OMG | 14:35 |
| Nicd- | :OOO | 14:35 |
| cybette | it is creepy :P | 14:35 |
| Stskeeps | there's two of them | 14:36 |
| Nicd- | oh | 14:36 |
| Stskeeps | http://host-d.oddcast.com/php/application_UI/doorId=1177/clientId=299/?mId=53331766.3 too | 14:36 |
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| cybette | hahahahaha | 14:37 |
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| pdanek | Nokia is going to release Android phone :O .... We may actually see Sailfish Nokia phone too, who knows :O | 14:39 |
| Nicd- | I don't think they are going to | 14:40 |
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| Turski | they maybe were going to... | 14:41 |
| ggabriel | that was elop's strategy of "buy us or else..." | 14:42 |
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| Turski | i'm trying what scaling governor change to msm-dcvs from ondemand does for battery life... | 14:55 |
| Turski | ui seems to struggle a bit though... | 14:55 |
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| disharmonic | Evening | 14:56 |
| ShadowJK | I would imagine that "race to idle" still is the best approach | 14:58 |
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| Turski | might be | 14:58 |
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| Turski | ShadowJK: umm... you mean performance governor? | 14:59 |
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| ShadowJK | nah | 15:00 |
| ShadowJK | what ondemand does it immediately goes to highest frequency, and then steps downwards | 15:01 |
| ShadowJK | It takes time to switch frequencies, so if demand increases, it goes to max immediately, and if load goes away it steps down one step at a time | 15:02 |
| ShadowJK | CPU should spend most of its time at 0 MHz :) | 15:03 |
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| disharmonic | Why are you discussing Android governors? | 15:05 |
| * ShadowJK talks about a linux governor | 15:07 | |
| phdeswer | ShadowJK: that is not the ondemand governor. That one goes up in steps. You are thinking of interactive | 15:07 |
| phdeswer | However the default values for it are pretty bad. | 15:07 |
| ShadowJK | I thought conservative was the one that went up in steps | 15:09 |
| phdeswer | conservative steps up a lot slower and ramps down more quickly | 15:09 |
| Turski | i would have thought that msm-dcvs would be good since it was made by qualcomm(?) | 15:09 |
| phdeswer | ondemand jumps higher but not always immediately to max | 15:09 |
| Stskeeps | Turski: there's some stuff about cpu scaling in relation to input, too | 15:10 |
| phdeswer | Anyway the whole governor stuff is a lot more complex than it seems from the surface | 15:11 |
| Turski | at least msm-dcvs is laggy :P | 15:11 |
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| Turski | Stskeeps: anything new on store auth problems? | 15:13 |
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| Stskeeps | Turski: not yet, been a bit of a family day for me today | 15:15 |
| Turski | Stskeeps: ok | 15:15 |
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| disharmonic | my bad :P | 15:19 |
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| phaeron | Turski: did you try removing and readding the jolla account ? | 15:29 |
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| pdanek | Bigger and bigger smartphone displays... | 15:34 |
| pdanek | Is it because display technologies and resolutions get higher, or human hands are getting bigger and bigger each year? | 15:34 |
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| pdanek | I mean, why didn't we have 5" phones everywhere 2 years ago, but now? | 15:35 |
| Chaz6 | Korean/japanese phones are still pretty small | 15:35 |
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| Yaniel | pdanek: in america everything is bigger | 15:35 |
| Yaniel | and others are influenced by them | 15:36 |
| Acce | Chaz6: as far as I've seen, atleast in japan they're aggressively marketing the big screen smartphones and all my friends had one | 15:36 |
| pdanek | Do you think, that if you throw 5" smartphones at people 3 years ago, sales would be much smaller? Because it would be too radical change? | 15:37 |
| pdanek | But now, people are getting used to it, by little inch every year? | 15:37 |
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| Morpog | seems so, but there will be an end in size | 15:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Morpog: Well - maybe. | 15:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Morpog: Or phones will get handgrips on the back. | 15:38 |
| ggabriel | i'd like to use my phone with 1 hand most of the time | 15:38 |
| Morpog | SpeedEvil, I cannot imagine anyone running around with a Nexus 7 sized smartphone | 15:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Morpog: And clothing with front tablet pockets will come in. | 15:38 |
| ggabriel | i guess i'll struggle a bit with the jolla | 15:38 |
| ggabriel | but that remains to be seen | 15:38 |
| ggabriel | Morpog: yeah, end size 130" :) | 15:39 |
| Yaniel | the jolla is a bit too large IMO | 15:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Morpog: Imagination failure IMO. | 15:39 |
| Turski | phaeron: yes | 15:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Morpog: If it was robust enough, it wouldn't be an issue for many that don't use their phones for calls much. | 15:39 |
| pdanek | But why not instant big screen size before? | 15:40 |
| pdanek | Why adding a little every year? | 15:40 |
| ortylp | pdanek: My SG Note2 (5.5") is about the right size for a smartphone (SG Note 3 is even better => larger display, smaller device). On the other side a dumbphone with a week of battery life should be available in a size of a watch. I have Nokia 2630 as a backup and I cannot find anything smaller on the market :( | 15:40 |
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| ortylp | Morpog: well... I do: it still fits in a pocket and "phone" functionality is really rarely used by me | 15:42 |
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| ggabriel | i think ortylp has a point... eventually phone functionality has to go away into something way smaller | 15:43 |
| ggabriel | similar to the htc concept of having a mini phone to go with the massive display | 15:43 |
| ggabriel | but that wouldn't cover use cases such as walking around with the map open in the smartphone and the umbrella in the other hand | 15:43 |
| pdanek | or.. Google Glass like products | 15:43 |
| nander_ | Remote application finished with exit code 137. | 15:43 |
| Morpog | ortylp, I had my nexus 7 several times in my pocket, but it never was comfortable and never was long | 15:43 |
| ggabriel | pdanek: uhm... don't want a laser writing things on my eyeball, thanks ;-) | 15:44 |
| ggabriel | but yeah, something along those lines that's not to intrusive physically perhaps | 15:44 |
| Chaz6 | My company is trying to get a google glass trial but it's closed | 15:44 |
| Chaz6 | It has serious applications where I work | 15:44 |
| Chaz6 | A lot of them are safety oriented | 15:44 |
| Yaniel | I still want to see phones with builtin laser projectors | 15:44 |
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| ortylp | Morpog: it depends what you wear, and it does not have to be pocket in your trousers :D [5.5" still fits in my trousers] | 15:45 |
| Yaniel | actually, laser projectors in general | 15:45 |
| Chaz6 | e.g. not needing to hold a portable device so you have both hands for holding onto handrails etc | 15:45 |
| pdanek | ggabriel: when I see people zombie-walking on the streets with their head pointed down to their smartphones, I wish sometimes that all of us have Google Glass-like product. | 15:45 |
| Chaz6 | and getting information inside tight spaces | 15:45 |
| Chaz6 | I look down at my phone a lot when walking around :( | 15:45 |
| Chaz6 | We get in trouble for doing that at work | 15:45 |
| Morpog | ortylp, well, I was refering to trousers, as it's the place where most man put their phone | 15:46 |
| ggabriel | not sure walking around looking at somethign else (Phone, newspaper, whatever) is a big problem | 15:46 |
| ggabriel | it is if you do so in an unsafe place | 15:46 |
| ggabriel | such as crossing the road | 15:46 |
| pdanek | I believe that regardless how trustful Google company is, the Glass initiative is right way in terms of ergonomics. | 15:46 |
| Chaz6 | ggabriel: I work in an office and they're keen on it | 15:46 |
| Chaz6 | Trying to reduce the LTI (lost time injury) rate | 15:47 |
| Chaz6 | augmented reality is definitely the future | 15:47 |
| ggabriel | to me, it remains to be seen how "safe" is a google glass-like thing | 15:47 |
| Morpog | I guess it won't be allowed to use while driving a car | 15:48 |
| Chaz6 | It could have a car mode where it just gives you alerts of obstacles perhaps | 15:48 |
| pdanek | I don't think human body/head is made to be constantly looking down. | 15:48 |
| pdanek | It can trigger some small headaches etc.... looking straight or a little under the horizon is correct. | 15:48 |
| Chaz6 | and is otherwise silent | 15:48 |
| pdanek | That';s why you have instructions how to setup your monitor in office etc. | 15:48 |
| ggabriel | Chaz6: cars could draw things on the windshield, no need for glasses ;-) | 15:48 |
| ggabriel | pdanek: good point | 15:49 |
| ggabriel | i don't personally look at my smartphone all the time | 15:49 |
| ggabriel | just for maps, glance at an address, text, things like that | 15:49 |
| pdanek | Many people do, most of the time. | 15:49 |
| ggabriel | i won't read a book while walking :) | 15:49 |
| Chaz6 | ggabriel: but it's a lot easier to wear glass than upgrade your car | 15:49 |
| ggabriel | arguably, i cna see some, not everybody | 15:49 |
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| ggabriel | Chaz6: uhm... you could modularise/standardise that easily? | 15:50 |
| ggabriel | i dunno | 15:50 |
| ggabriel | just personally uncomfortable of how things are projected on your eyes | 15:50 |
| pdanek | I think 10 years from now, there will be dozens of Glass-like products on market, used by masses. | 15:50 |
| Chaz6 | haha standardize across the auto industry.. good one :) | 15:50 |
| Chaz6 | manufacturers cant even standardize their own models | 15:50 |
| ortylp | Morpog: most jackets can hold 6-7" device in the internal pocket, I prefer fleece and there you can fit 10" kindle :D in the internal pocket | 15:51 |
| ggabriel | Chaz6: yeah, a lot of things are standardised, some gov req's and some others just practicity | 15:51 |
| ggabriel | practicality, sorry | 15:51 |
| pdanek | ggabriel: even LCD that you are looking at, is kind of projecting light to your eyes, just not so precise/close/direct | 15:51 |
| ggabriel | pdanek: i know | 15:51 |
| pdanek | there is no laser-evil technology in it | 15:51 |
| ggabriel | but laser not so similar to light | 15:51 |
| Morpog | ortylp, sure but what do you do in summer? | 15:51 |
| ggabriel | also, spent a lot of yeras lookint at crt's | 15:51 |
| ggabriel | and i wear glasses now | 15:51 |
| Chaz6 | there is an israeli company called microvision that does laser huds | 15:51 |
| Chaz6 | with military applications | 15:51 |
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| pdanek | but I agree that current implementations of wearable tech is not perfect | 15:53 |
| ortylp | Morpog: short trousers with large pockets on the side of your leg, similar to trekking/military style | 15:53 |
| pdanek | just saying that it's future | 15:53 |
| ggabriel | pdanek: maybe i'm misinformed, but that's what i read some time ago. laser isn't evil, but my point is that we don't know if/how it will affect human vision | 15:53 |
| Tofe | ok, now I'm in the country to be | 15:53 |
| Morpog | ortylp, so I start to buy my trouser for the needs of my phone? :D | 15:53 |
| Chaz6 | It won't be long until we can swap our eyes with bionic ones | 15:53 |
| Chaz6 | (flashbacks of g'kar in babylon 5) | 15:54 |
| ggabriel | Chaz6: i'd rather a neural lace, if we go all sci fi here ;-) | 15:54 |
| Acce | aren't they developing foldable screens to solve the pocket size problem | 15:54 |
| pdanek | ggabriel: well you don't know how your brain will be affected 30 years from now, while living in city surrounded by 3g, lte, wifi, gsm... | 15:54 |
| ggabriel | Acce: yeap, that's a great idea actually | 15:54 |
| Chaz6 | ggabriel: keep your brain at home and rely on external sensors for input :3 | 15:54 |
| ggabriel | pdanek: true, but i think beer affects it more | 15:54 |
| pdanek | ggabriel: :D | 15:54 |
| ortylp | Morpog: in summer I have to have backpack anyway, getting outside without a bottle of water (south Germany) is not the best idea... | 15:54 |
| Chaz6 | It'll make the tourism industry very exciting | 15:54 |
| Morpog | ortylp, well, Ich habs bis jetzt immer überlebt hier in Baden-Württemberg :D | 15:55 |
| ggabriel | Chaz6: for sure, hehe | 15:55 |
| ggabriel | reflecting about it, we've been using wearable tech since watches came along | 15:55 |
| ggabriel | but you can't be walking around watching a film in a ~5" screen | 15:56 |
| ggabriel | i mean, sit down somewhere, relax, enjoy it | 15:56 |
| ortylp | Morpog: Ich rede über KA und PF, aber ich komme aus Danzig weit, weit von Norden :P | 15:56 |
| pdanek | ggabriel: you can, imagine how our lifes get faster and faster every day, before people could not even imagine making a phone call, while eating and working along with it | 15:57 |
| pdanek | next generation will think of it like we are old and don't understand | 15:58 |
| pdanek | now I see people standing & squeezed in public transport and holding their phones up and watching movies or playing games... and it's definitely not comfortable for them | 15:59 |
| ggabriel | pdanek: agree, but call me old fashioned: i prefer watching my films in surround sound and at >100" :) | 15:59 |
| pdanek | sure, me too... just saying that the same like our parents don't use many tech we do -> we won't use much of tech that our children will do | 15:59 |
| pdanek | and we will try to make arguments, but it will be pointless for the new generation | 16:00 |
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| Tofe | pdanek: "use IRC, my son !" | 16:00 |
| pdanek | :D | 16:00 |
| ggabriel | pdanek: uhm... my dad in particular likes technology, he just needs to be intorduced to it. my gf's parents are the same | 16:00 |
| ggabriel | it's tricky tho, as then they own you with every question | 16:00 |
| ggabriel | back to the big/small phone topic | 16:01 |
| pdanek | right | 16:01 |
| ggabriel | i'd love to have both options :) | 16:01 |
| pdanek | it may not happen | 16:01 |
| pdanek | I'd like to have both options: keyboard phones and keyboard-less..... not many choices now | 16:01 |
| pdanek | hard to buy high-end small display phone now | 16:01 |
| ggabriel | pdanek: nope, i want a keyboard other half for the jolla :) | 16:01 |
| pdanek | :P we all do :( | 16:02 |
| pdanek | I can't wait... | 16:02 |
| Tofe | why didn't they put a DNA store at the airport ? don't they now people come to finland for Jolla ? ;) | 16:03 |
| Stskeeps | Tofe: i vote for a pop-up store in the starbucks there | 16:03 |
| Tofe | know* | 16:03 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:03 |
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| pdanek | Tofe: Duty Free Jolla! | 16:05 |
| ggabriel | hehe, nice idea ;) | 16:05 |
| Tofe | :) | 16:05 |
| ggabriel | "i went to finland" "yeah? what did you see?" "the airport" | 16:06 |
| Tofe | nice airport, btw | 16:06 |
| pdanek | Finnair should start selling Duty Free Jolla during their long-distance flights. | 16:06 |
| Chaz6 | the only part of holland i've seen is schipol :( | 16:06 |
| Chaz6 | great idea | 16:06 |
| ortylp | pay 400€ for flight to get 400€ Jolla :D | 16:06 |
| Chaz6 | in some countries it's well worth it | 16:06 |
| Chaz6 | they can sell the phones for 10x the price | 16:06 |
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| pdanek | I wonder what's manufacturing cost of each Jolla. | 16:08 |
| pdanek | I mean, development costs not included. | 16:08 |
| Tofe | must be quite high, given its not really mass-produced like samsung | 16:09 |
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| pdanek | And do we know which Chinese company is manufacturing for Jolla? | 16:10 |
| pdanek | I don't think they have their own factory. | 16:10 |
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| anonfriese_ | flying to finland just to see an airport? man, you sure haven't been to tampere then ;) | 16:10 |
| anonfriese_ | almost the smallest airport i've ever seen | 16:11 |
| pdanek | Small = better! | 16:11 |
| Tofe | anonfriese_: I've done turku, it's not big either :) | 16:11 |
| anonfriese_ | ok, at least it's not that easy to loose your luggage, and the bus to city centre is also pretty fast and cheap | 16:12 |
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| Tofe | and walking on the snow to get to the plane's stairs is fun | 16:13 |
| anonfriese_ | and ortylp: if i had gotten free from work on launch day, i'd flown over to finland just to buy my jolla, yes :) | 16:13 |
| anonfriese_ | yeah, it's kinda fun, the un-fun thing is that ryanair delayed my flight back home for 2 hours because of the snow... | 16:14 |
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| Tofe | well, there's always plenty of coffee to help the waiting | 16:15 |
| ortylp | anonfriese_: it would be very tempting for me, but I was not invited, I have preordered a few hours too late... | 16:15 |
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| anonfriese_ | i've got my invite to helsinki and it really sucks, that i still have to wait instead of already having it in my hands... | 16:16 |
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| anonfriese_ | at least sailfish on n9 is running pretty well, so i guess i can still wait a few weeks | 16:16 |
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| pdanek | Nokia N9 camera is better than Jolla's, already confirmed. | 16:17 |
| ggabriel | pdanek: thanks, unsurprising though ;) | 16:17 |
| anonfriese_ | pdanek: i heard, but as long as it's not as bad as my old palm's or my htc dream, im happy ;) | 16:17 |
| pdanek | It's 2-years old phone, I hoped it may be at least the same quality. | 16:18 |
| ortylp | anonfriese_: can you point to installation instructions and image? Is there a way to make full backup of N9 Harmattan | 16:18 |
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| ggabriel | lens in the n9 are vrey special tho | 16:18 |
| anonfriese_ | ortylp: look at jolla users, they have a guide | 16:18 |
| anonfriese_ | you can use ubiboot -> meego and sailfish dual-boot | 16:18 |
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| pdanek | jolla users is slowly becoming new maemo.org/talk.maemo.org | 16:18 |
| pdanek | their forums are more and more active | 16:19 |
| ortylp | pdanek: I thought we all stay at maemo.org... | 16:19 |
| pdanek | ortylp: I do | 16:19 |
| pdanek | :D | 16:19 |
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| ggabriel | i lurked a bit in jollausers.com | 16:19 |
| ggabriel | they miss the "active threads" bit | 16:20 |
| ggabriel | and i think there's better content in tmo | 16:20 |
| anonfriese_ | i'm reading both anyways ;) | 16:20 |
| pdanek | ok, very slowly becoming | 16:20 |
| pdanek | :D | 16:20 |
| Tofe | as long as it's not becoming like xda, it's ok | 16:22 |
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| pdanek | Tofe: I hate xda. | 16:25 |
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| ShadowJK | Yaniel; iirc around 2008-2009, projector phones were at peak popularity | 16:32 |
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| ggabriel | ShadowJK: i vote for espresso making phones | 16:34 |
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| atlaz | Hmhm. I guess i'll make a go for deving an app for Jolla during the x-mas break. I have always wanted to make a triplog software, but the one for android is just too good, so i didn't really have the motivation to start building one myself | 16:38 |
| Chaz6 | I wish google latitude was still active | 16:39 |
| atlaz | I need my app to distinguish personal car-rides with business related drives | 16:40 |
| atlaz | So that mr. Tax-guy knows how much to pay me back in the end of the year | 16:40 |
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| Chaz6 | Great idea | 16:41 |
| atlaz | It needs to track start location, end location, who was driving and how many kilometers the trip was. Bonus features are: it somehow finds the street address from the GPS-coordinates + The app activates itself automatically when connected to ín-car bluetooth + the app remembers that if i have driven from place A to place B before, and that trip was personal, it should suggest it as an personal trip again | 16:42 |
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| atlaz | And ofcourse some kind of reporting so i can prove to Mr. Tax-guy that the kilometers i submit are actually true :) | 16:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | atlaz: Openstreetmap may be useful. | 16:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | I don't know what if any APIs are available for the Here data | 16:55 |
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| pdanek | What are best maps for Europe now? | 17:10 |
| pdanek | Is it Google Maps or Here? | 17:10 |
| Chaz6 | I think here maps are a bit better than google | 17:11 |
| Quu | here might be good when/if they get navigation | 17:11 |
| pdanek | But Google has lot of places/stores marked on the map. | 17:11 |
| Bysmyyr | google have better information, public transport times etc | 17:11 |
| pdanek | yes | 17:11 |
| Yaniel | here is getting there as well | 17:12 |
| Chaz6 | I wish google would by OS AL2/AddressBase so it gives you accurate locations for addresses | 17:12 |
| Chaz6 | *would buy | 17:12 |
| Chaz6 | Doesn't matter to me because i can get it through work | 17:12 |
| Chaz6 | But it would be convenient | 17:12 |
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| Frye | Hmm, is anyone else experiencing issues with their calendar on Jolla? | 17:14 |
| Frye | I try to create event for tuesday and when I Accept/Create it crashes the whole application | 17:14 |
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| AL13N_lizzy | jolla on eBAY: Sold at 850£; $1175 (3h left); 315£ (21h left); 680£ (2d left); $570 (3d left); $585 (4d left) | 17:27 |
| Frye | =) | 17:28 |
| disharmonic | The 3rd one is fair | 17:28 |
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| AL13N_lizzy | we'll see how long it'll say fair after the 3h one has gone | 17:28 |
| Frye | aye | 17:28 |
| AL13N_lizzy | *stay fair after 3 hours | 17:29 |
| Frye | 'Looks... interesting | 17:29 |
| disharmonic | Auctions then | 17:29 |
| AL13N_lizzy | 850£ > 1000£ > 1350$ | 17:29 |
| AL13N_lizzy | so, the first one was quite expensive | 17:29 |
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| AL13N_lizzy | i mean 1000€ | 17:29 |
| AL13N_lizzy | oops | 17:29 |
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| Quu | . | 17:30 |
| Quu | dollahs | 17:30 |
| AL13N_lizzy | still, the 315£ one only has a jolla on it, no extra, no box, no nothing | 17:31 |
| AL13N_lizzy | the expensive dollar one is unsealed | 17:31 |
| AL13N_lizzy | the 585$ one looks unsealed too, but unsure | 17:31 |
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| AL13N_lizzy | anyway, so it may not really be that fair after all | 17:32 |
| AL13N_lizzy | also, the 680£ one has a red poppy TOH (the first one) | 17:32 |
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| Frye | Ok, ran the calendar from command line and there definitely is something fishy. Seems like the db is corrupt. | 18:07 |
| Frye | Need to look into it more when kids are in bed. | 18:07 |
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| nander | Will pygame be supported officially? | 19:51 |
| nander | It works quite nicely | 19:51 |
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| ZogG_laptop | faenil: at the end frined postponed his trip | 19:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | so i'll get it later :0 | 19:55 |
| faenil | ZogG_laptop, oh no... | 19:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | he'll get device but i'll get it probably afte januar :( | 19:56 |
| AL13N_lizzy | jolla on eBAY: Sold at 850£; $1175 (30min left); 315£ (21h left); 680£ (2d left); 550£ (3d left); $570 (3d left); $585 (4d left) | 19:57 |
| tbr | <obama>notbad</obama> | 19:58 |
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| Turski | much less in huuto.net :) http://www.huuto.net/hakutulos?words=jolla&search-button=Hae | 19:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | faenil: what about help you needed? | 20:01 |
| pdanek1 | Does anyone want my N900 with only broken display backlight for free? Accessories included. | 20:01 |
| pdanek1 | wtf is huuto.net :D | 20:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | pdanek1: how much? | 20:01 |
| pdanek1 | ZogG_laptop: what how much? nothing... you just have to cover shipping fees | 20:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | pdanek1: i want | 20:02 |
| Milo- | pdanek1 finnish version of ebay. | 20:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | pdanek1: i have mine with usb broken | 20:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | i have display | 20:03 |
| faenil | ZogG_laptop, still thinking if it's worth creating a bugtracker since jolla is already working on something to enhance communication with users | 20:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | can combine to have one :) | 20:03 |
| pdanek1 | ZogG_laptop: what's your address? | 20:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | pdanek1: Israel | 20:03 |
| pdanek1 | ZogG_laptop: that's not gonna be so cheap, shipping from Poland or Slovakia | 20:03 |
| pdanek1 | ZogG_laptop: let me check the shipping fees tomorrow | 20:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | pdanek1: whe you'll get your jolla ask them how much | 20:04 |
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| Milo- | my weekend of jolla development didn't go quite as I planned. QML and the fact that I would have needed a reboot, in order to connect my phone to my machine kind of put me off.. | 20:04 |
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| ZogG_laptop | pdanek1: thanks :P i would pay if it's not that many, as well i have address in Lux so my frined can bring it with my jolla, so try to find out how uch for Lux as well :P | 20:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | pdanek1: have you seen last south park? | 20:05 |
| pdanek1 | ZogG_laptop: yep | 20:05 |
| Milo- | kanyee west's girlfriend is a hobbit. | 20:06 |
| pdanek1 | ZogG_laptop: I think Luxemburg my be cheaper, I can actually send it next week, will see | 20:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | pdanek1: so i feel it's funny when some people try to shut up those who complain about jolla shippping problems | 20:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's like they telling "i'll send you to jelly school" :P | 20:07 |
| pdanek1 | lol | 20:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | are you hater? | 20:07 |
| pdanek1 | of course | 20:07 |
| pdanek1 | I hate you all guys. | 20:07 |
| Milo- | jellyschool. | 20:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | :P | 20:08 |
| Milo- | there is just one thing I'm missing from my jolla. mahjong. | 20:08 |
| Milo- | well.. and obviously battery life | 20:08 |
| pdanek1 | mahjong on N900 was amazing with stylus | 20:08 |
| Milo- | yeah. and N9 had fun new levels as well | 20:09 |
| pdanek1 | but no stylus :P | 20:09 |
| Milo- | nope, but still fun hobby to beat my old records over and over again | 20:09 |
| Milo- | faster... harder... mahjong! | 20:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | yeap | 20:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | greeat game | 20:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | why battery | 20:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | it was funny how jolla officialyy told 500 hours standby | 20:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | and everyone was "whooooooo" like cat in "puss in boots" movie | 20:10 |
| Milo- | I probably could get 50 hours with power turned on, while connected to mobile network (no 3g data, or wlan), with my phone sitting on the desk untouched and uncalled. | 20:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | http://brynabutler.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/oooh-cat.jpg | 20:12 |
| faenil | Milo-, than that means there is some software draining your battery | 20:12 |
| Milo- | faenil yeah.. either the operating system's core processes, or Jolla's settings client. | 20:13 |
| faenil | Milo-, or the android layer, or one of the core apps, or one of the ones you installed | 20:13 |
| Milo- | nothing visible is running. | 20:14 |
| nander | It works quite nicely | 20:14 |
| faenil | that doesn't mean it's not running :) otherwise the phone would be switched off | 20:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | or ..... 42 | 20:14 |
| nander | oops, sorry | 20:14 |
| Milo- | faenil I know. | 20:14 |
| Milo- | nothing launched by me is running. | 20:15 |
| faenil | Milo-, I understand, but that doesn't mean much | 20:15 |
| Milo- | indeed | 20:15 |
| Milo- | well, load avg is alarmingly high after a long period of idling (1-2 hours). | 20:17 |
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| Milo- | 15 minute load avg is at 0.46 | 20:18 |
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| nadriel | you can check from the terminal | 20:28 |
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| nadriel | pstree and top are your friends | 20:31 |
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| AntiHawk | Hello, I have a question: Any idea what is best way to make complete system backup from Jolla? | 20:39 |
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| AntiHawk | I have fought 2 to 3 hours and finally I got working set of everything that I need, it would be nice to have a snapshot or something to revert to when things go south | 20:41 |
| Quu | AntiHawk: probably nothing yet | 20:41 |
| Jonni | AntiHawk: backup from settings menu. Or rsync-backup is pretty nice tool also, as it supports incremental backups. | 20:41 |
| AntiHawk | hmm | 20:43 |
| AntiHawk | I was thing about rsync also but I haven't though about specifics yet | 20:43 |
| Jonni | AntiHawk: or btrfs snapshots, you can make a snapshot of current filesystem state and restore to it later | 20:43 |
| Jonni | (thats how restore factory settings is doing it, it restores you back to btrfs factory snapshot) | 20:44 |
| AntiHawk | okey it's filesystem feature then sounds good | 20:44 |
| AntiHawk | what to take a look | 20:44 |
| AntiHawk | *have to | 20:44 |
| Jonni | google "btrfs snapshot" :) | 20:45 |
| Jonni | btrfs stuff is pretty compilicated, for easier solution you might want to google rsync-backup | 20:46 |
| AntiHawk | I don't mind I just spend whole day with broken XenServer 6.1 environment and citrix support pages :D time to learn more :D | 20:47 |
| Jonni | https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Incremental_Backup might be also worth reading. | 20:47 |
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| AntiHawk | yeah thanks :) | 20:50 |
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| AntiHawk | I decided to go with rsync first as first backup because it's safer... | 21:10 |
| MSameer | AntiHawk: you can setup a git remote server and install rsync and push your backups to a remote server | 21:12 |
| MSameer | AntiHawk: deztructor can help you | 21:12 |
| AntiHawk | my linux box is currently down but yea thats very good idea :D | 21:13 |
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| AntiHawk | this makes me smile mkfs.btrfs /dev/mmcblk1p1 results first line | 21:18 |
| Bysmyyr | is this true also in sailfish, any ideas: http://everythingn9.com/terminal-developer-mode-off/ tldr. dev mode uses battery | 21:18 |
| AntiHawk | WARNING! - Btrfs v0.20-rc1 IS EXPERIMENTAL | 21:18 |
| ggabriel | AntiHawk: highly experimental according to the kernel config :) | 21:19 |
| AntiHawk | damn :D | 21:19 |
| ggabriel | many ppl use it tho | 21:20 |
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| faenil | it's been "experimental" for like 2 years now, fwiw :) | 21:23 |
| stephg | it'll be experimental for a while longer too faenil ;) | 21:25 |
| Nicd- | hey, phone users, can you check if this works on your phone? https://bitbucket.org/Nicd/sailtime/downloads | 21:27 |
| ln- | malware? | 21:28 |
| Nicd- | :( | 21:28 |
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| Nicd- | it's my uptime app | 21:28 |
| AntiHawk | damn no wget as stock | 21:29 |
| ln- | there should be curl, i think | 21:30 |
| AntiHawk | and right you are | 21:30 |
| teve | Nicd-: works fine. | 21:30 |
| Nicd- | yay | 21:31 |
| Nicd- | my spec and yaml files have differing version information, wonder if that's bad | 21:31 |
| Nicd- | guess I'll just push to harbour and see what qa says | 21:31 |
| ccha4 | about yandex store I can register from the phone because can't see the captcha... how can I register ? | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | ccha4: are you on finnish language? | 21:31 |
| ccha4 | nope | 21:31 |
| ccha4 | french | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | which then? | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | okay, try to switch to english, then try, you can switch back to french afterwards | 21:32 |
| ccha4 | ok | 21:32 |
| FireFly | For the notificationy things that pop up near the top of the screen sometime, is it possible to get more detailed messages? I get one saying "Problem with connection" when I try to use mobile data transfer over 3G | 21:34 |
| FireFly | pops up* | 21:34 |
| FireFly | (this is after selecting "mobile data" when the browser asks me for "select Internet connection") | 21:35 |
| pdanek1 | Can I survive with native apps only on Jolla? | 21:35 |
| pdanek1 | Like, is there IM messenger? | 21:35 |
| Nicd- | pdanek1: there's IM for google, facebook and xmpp | 21:36 |
| pdanek1 | Nicd-: :O, much less than N900 | 21:37 |
| ln- | how do i install the rpm? just "rpm -i", or something sudo-like? | 21:37 |
| Nicd- | ln-: pkcon install-local file.rpm | 21:38 |
| ln- | Nicd-: ok, well, the app installed and started, but it just says "Refreshing..." | 21:41 |
| AntiHawk | Nicd-: your app works well, my load was 4.8 (rsync running..) | 21:41 |
| Nicd- | ln-: hmm, try running it via the console and see if there's any output | 21:42 |
| Nicd- | AntiHawk: hehe, actually if you get over 9.99 load, the texts won't align properly | 21:42 |
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| AntiHawk | okey, maybe I don't try it then :D | 21:43 |
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| ln- | Nicd-: quite a bit of output, let's see if i can copy-paste it | 21:44 |
| Nicd- | ln-: pipe it to a file and email it to me | 21:44 |
| Nicd- | if you can | 21:44 |
| AntiHawk | I did rpm -i while in devel-su | 21:44 |
| Nicd- | I used pkcon install-local and it seems to run ok | 21:45 |
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| ln- | Nicd-: http://fpaste.org/62063/ | 21:50 |
| Nicd- | thanks ln- | 21:51 |
| ln- | no problem | 21:51 |
| ccha4 | Stskeeps: yes thnak you it works | 21:51 |
| Nicd- | ln-: can you also get the output of 'uptime'? | 21:52 |
| Nicd- | it seems my regex didn't match | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | ccha4: good | 21:52 |
| ccha4 | why yandex register doesn't with other languague ? | 21:52 |
| ln- | Nicd-: " 23:52:42 up 1 day, 11:43, 0 users, load average: 0.87, 0.59, 0.47" (re-typed, not copy-pasted) | 21:53 |
| Nicd- | ln-: can you pipe it to a file to make sure there are no typing errors please? | 21:54 |
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| Quu | 2 days 3hours :p | 21:54 |
| Quu | hmm | 21:54 |
| ln- | " 23:55:06 up 1 day, 11:45, 0 users, load average: 0.60, 0.57, 0.48" (copy-pasted from output file) | 21:56 |
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| Nicd- | thanks ln- | 21:57 |
| Nicd- | I'll upload a new version | 21:57 |
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| MSameer | pdanek1: depends on your usage you might or might not survive "now" | 21:59 |
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| Nicd- | ln-: I'll try again tomorrow | 22:04 |
| ln- | ok | 22:04 |
| Nicd- | for some reason bitbucket is logging me out every time I go to the downloads page | 22:04 |
| Nicd- | ... or might as well try clearing cookies now | 22:05 |
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| Nicd- | yeah, not even changing browsers works | 22:08 |
| Nicd- | so I'll try again tomorrow | 22:08 |
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| Venemo | hey guys | 22:16 |
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| Acce | hello, Venemo | 22:22 |
| Venemo | hi | 22:22 |
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| Venemo | it seems that I suck at discrete time convolution | 22:22 |
| AL13N_lizzy | jolla on eBAY: Sold at 850£(1008€) and at $1175(855€); 315£(373€ (?)) (16h left); 680£(806€) (2d left); 550£ (0 bids, 2.5d left); $570 (0 bids, 3d left); $585 (4d left) | 22:23 |
| AL13N_lizzy | in 16h, a jolla will be sold with loss??? | 22:23 |
| AL13N_lizzy | how odd | 22:23 |
| Venemo | people're probably gonna bid on it more during those 16 hours | 22:23 |
| Acce | hmm | 22:23 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a seller with 1 feedback. | 22:24 |
| AL13N_lizzy | maybe, it's not moving for the last 2days though | 22:24 |
| AL13N_lizzy | ic | 22:24 |
| SpeedEvil | I personally never bid on anything on ebay till the last 7 seconds. | 22:24 |
| AL13N_lizzy | there is no red poppy TOH though | 22:24 |
| Acce | can you cancel the auction in ebay if you don't like the final price? | 22:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Acce: No. | 22:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Acce: In principle, anyway. | 22:25 |
| AL13N_lizzy | though you can bid for your own device, right? | 22:25 |
| Acce | SpeedEvil: that goes for both sides? | 22:25 |
| Acce | seller and buyer? | 22:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Acce: Again, in principle. | 22:25 |
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| Acce | okay, good | 22:25 |
| SpeedEvil | What actually happens if the seller doesn't ship and doesn't take payment is their seller account gets cancelled. | 22:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Which for someone who has never sold before is not a big issue. | 22:26 |
| Acce | I see | 22:26 |
| AL13N_lizzy | hence the 1 feedback thing | 22:26 |
| Acce | so the guy might be someone who just thought he'd sell for profit | 22:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Never, ever, ever pay by other means than paypal as a buyer. | 22:26 |
| Acce | because others got high bids? | 22:27 |
| AL13N_lizzy | SpeedEvil: why? | 22:27 |
| AL13N_lizzy | i never used ebay before, so i donno | 22:27 |
| Acce | they can do something about it if you don't get the goods if you use paypal? | 22:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Because in general, paypal has strong 'buyer protection' policies that exceed what is otherwise available. | 22:27 |
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| ln- | indeed, http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57352627-93/paypal-dispute-ends-in-destruction-of-violin/ | 22:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Paypal is great as a payment method for buyers. | 22:31 |
| SpeedEvil | For sellers - it has real issues. | 22:31 |
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| Acce | wow | 22:34 |
| Acce | so what, they demand the buyer to send a picture of the "fake" item destroyed before he gets his money back? | 22:35 |
| Acce | but quite bad terms for the seller | 22:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | In general, if you're in that situation as a buyer, that will not happen if you promplty refund the buyer. | 22:40 |
| SpeedEvil | And pay for return shipping. | 22:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | That only happens after the second stage of the dispute process. | 22:40 |
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| npm | sounds like people need bitcoin | 22:51 |
| npm | http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/chargeback | 22:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Bitcoin doesn't help. | 22:51 |
| SpeedEvil | It moves the liability to the seller. | 22:52 |
| SpeedEvil | ^buyer | 22:52 |
| SpeedEvil | The only way to 'fix' ebay is to have every item inspected by someone that can determine every possible fault a buyer may care about. | 22:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Otherwise you can't determine between 'he sent me a brick' and 'I sent him a laptop, he sent me a brick back when he returned it' | 22:53 |
| npm | why would that be a part of the protocol known as currency? | 22:53 |
| SpeedEvil | I was assuming you were addressing the above discussion. | 22:54 |
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| npm | i thought i was | 22:57 |
| ottulo | I don't think the currency has a great impact on the problem | 22:58 |
| ottulo | other than the fact that it's easier to transfer bitcoins directly between seller and buyer, unlike traditional currency that requires a third party, be it bank or the auction site | 22:59 |
| npm | it's just that credit card co's have moved the balance so far to once side that we come to accept a world of ease for the buyer and that everybody will bailout the fraud that such a system causes. | 23:00 |
| npm | kind of like... the rest of the banking system | 23:00 |
| ottulo | there is a concept that would fix a lot of the issues above, and much more | 23:01 |
| ottulo | let's see if I can find it | 23:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Escrow. And it adds considerable cost. | 23:01 |
| npm | why should "social" things be part of the currency... that's part of the market that gives the currency it's value | 23:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Or some third party that verifies the trnsction if not traditional escro | 23:01 |
| ottulo | SpeedEvil: escrow doesn't necessarily add costs, and it's not what I'm after | 23:01 |
| ottulo | what I'm referring to is a concept of a system where everyone's details are available in an open database | 23:02 |
| ottulo | this database can be used to report misbehaviour as well as to give positive feedback | 23:02 |
| npm | the concept is "trust" | 23:02 |
| ottulo | if you misbehave, it will be public, and people are less likely to trust you | 23:03 |
| npm | in both a social and cryptographic sense | 23:03 |
| ottulo | npm: indeed, what I'm talking about here is a more concrete way to implement that so that you can decide if someone new to you is trustworthy | 23:03 |
| SpeedEvil | ottulo: Great - but it relies on unforgeable identities. And people being unable to create new identities. Which has clear and obvious problems. | 23:04 |
| npm | e.g. http://bitcoin-otc.com/ | 23:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Web of trust. | 23:04 |
| ottulo | SpeedEvil: one point of the system was that anyone could suggest to link separate accounts if they know them to belong to the same person | 23:04 |
| ottulo | so while you could have separate accounts, it would be possible to be found out | 23:04 |
| ottulo | by being completely open it would discourage misbehaviour, as you'd get in trouble whether someone sues you or not | 23:05 |
| ottulo | so it sort of might eliminate the need for administration altogether (the whole legal system) | 23:06 |
| npm | of course that is what ebay is supposed to provide in the first place... | 23:06 |
| ottulo | it's really explained better in slideshow that is somewhere in the depths of the internet, but as I don't remember the name it's not easy to find.. | 23:07 |
| AL13N_lizzy | trust and accountability also deny privacy | 23:08 |
| AL13N_lizzy | big brother, or (how to get off "The Grid") | 23:08 |
| AL13N_lizzy | though, if you buy something face-to-face, money gets transferred while the object is transferred | 23:09 |
| AL13N_lizzy | if you go VIA something, someone or something will need to be trustworthy and take the risk | 23:10 |
| AL13N_lizzy | to eliminate these kinds of problems, one would have to A) buyer and seller prove authenticity and availability B) trusted party holds both "objects" (money + object) at the same time, while live feeds confirm authenticity for both buyer and seller wrt middle man C) same thing but in reverse | 23:13 |
| AL13N_lizzy | in case of any doubt, the trusted middle man has to be the judge or provide enough witnesses to prove all this in courts | 23:14 |
| AL13N_lizzy | i guess online can be some sort of providence for that, but ... sheesh | 23:15 |
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| ottulo | http://slid.es/mmalmi/identifi | 23:21 |
| ottulo | AL13N_lizzy: ^that's what I was after | 23:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | ottulo: So - an open-source compulsory facebook. | 23:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Great - what an awesome ide. I can't see anything whatsoever that can possibly be a concern with this. | 23:23 |
| ottulo | SpeedEvil: without the "one ring to rule them all" | 23:23 |
| ottulo | as it's p2p | 23:23 |
| SpeedEvil | ottulo: That doesn't make it inherently better. | 23:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Facebook without facebook as corporate owner is not better from many perspectives. | 23:24 |
| ottulo | no, but it does diminish the risk of one party having considerable power over single users | 23:24 |
| ottulo | I'm not saying it's the ultimate solution to all problems | 23:24 |
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| ln- | btw, the browser can be used to download an rpm, but can such downloads be installed through the gui? | 23:44 |
| ottulo | ln-: I usually tap the notification on top of the screen, it takes me to Transfers | 23:45 |
| ottulo | then I tap on the file there and it installs | 23:45 |
| ln- | hmm, i tapped an rpm file in transfers and nothing happened. | 23:45 |
| ottulo | it doesn't show much on the ui even if it installs, just a similar notification on top once it's done | 23:47 |
| ottulo | though it hasn't taken more than a second or two for any app I've installed so far | 23:47 |
| ln- | well, gotta try again some other day with some other rpm | 23:47 |
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| ottulo-j | yay | 23:48 |
| ottulo-j | now I can irc on the go as well! | 23:49 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 23:49 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if anyones trying to port quassel. | 23:49 | |
| SpeedEvil | (Though quasseldroid is OK) | 23:49 |
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| Turski | ln-: at least there seems to be opener in mimeinfo.cache for rpm | 23:53 |
| Turski | application/x-rpm=store-client-install.desktop; | 23:53 |
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