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| tortoisedoc | blaaa | 08:08 |
|---|---|---|
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| zGrr | moin :) | 08:27 |
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| bluszcz | is there any api to add xmpp accounts? I think there is still no frontend, but maybe api at least so i could play on my own? | 10:03 |
| lainwir3d | I think it's using telepathy | 10:04 |
| lainwir3d | (not sure) | 10:04 |
| bluszcz | http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/doc/book/ hnm | 10:04 |
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| *** electrolux is now known as electrolux_off | 10:13 | |
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| tbr | bluszcz: XMPP was always there. SIP isn't done yet | 10:20 |
| tbr | but yeah, you can also create accounts using mc-tool | 10:21 |
| bluszcz | tbr: what do y ou mean 'was always there'? | 10:21 |
| tbr | Adding an XMPP account had a UI from the start | 10:21 |
| bluszcz | hmmmm | 10:25 |
| TemeV | doesn't support group chats though | 10:25 |
| bluszcz | sorry, I confused with my question - i wanted to ask about possibility to add contacts, not accounts. | 10:26 |
| TemeV | Not possible afaik | 10:27 |
| bluszcz | but internals are in the place (api), only gui is missing, right? | 10:27 |
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| tbr | yeah | 10:28 |
| tbr | the message ui is closed source, so meh. but you could take the nemo messaging ui code and write a nice app based on that, preferably with glacier components. :) | 10:29 |
| zGrr | lack of SIP was the reason, why i didn't buy a jolla phone. | 10:29 |
| TemeV | IIRC middleware is also missing something | 10:29 |
| TemeV | I think I had almost working fix for adding contacts and groupchats. I should maybe try to finish it someday | 10:30 |
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| TemeV | It requires patching the messaging app of course | 10:33 |
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| bluszcz | TemeV: ok | 10:48 |
| bluszcz | TemeV: do you have it somewhere available to have a look? | 10:48 |
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| TemeV | I have pushed something to github, but I don't remember if it's all there and it propably wont merge nicely to current versions | 10:51 |
| TemeV | https://github.com/TemeV/commhistory-daemon | 10:51 |
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| TemeV | hmm... libcommhistory is not there, weird, I'm sure I have that also in github | 10:52 |
| TemeV | and now that I checked, my commit there is just about chatrooms | 10:53 |
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| coderus | jolla-settings-accounts-extensions-sip | 10:56 |
| coderus | in jolla repos | 10:57 |
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| coderus | how to properly install QTranslator from plugin? | 14:43 |
| fledermaus | hm. know much about jolla hardware? I dropped my phone (sad face) and on a couple of occasions the speakers have just stopped any audio output. It seems fine now but I'm wondering of there's a loose connection now, and if so how easy/hard.impossible it wuld be to find and fix. | 14:46 |
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| chem|st | fledermaus: PA is sometimes hung, no sound at all, killing lipstick usually helps | 14:50 |
| chem|st | fledermaus: not specifically a hardware issue when both speakers do not work | 14:50 |
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| fledermaus | chem|st: headphones worked though. | 14:51 |
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| chem|st | fledermaus: maybe it is stuck with headphones pipeline | 15:06 |
| fledermaus | hm. | 15:06 |
| fledermaus | well, I'll keep an eye on it. | 15:06 |
| chem|st | if it works after a reboot it is probably software | 15:06 |
| fledermaus | I'm just suspicious because it didn't happen before the drop, and a reboot didn't help. | 15:06 |
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| chem|st | ok so it is permanent now? | 15:07 |
| fledermaus | no. | 15:07 |
| fledermaus | I took the back off to check for obvious cracks or anything loose. | 15:07 |
| fledermaus | and while I was prodding it the sound came back. | 15:07 |
| fledermaus | it's been mostly back since then. | 15:07 |
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| chem|st | oh my, it can have so many reasons why, next time you have it, reboot, if that does not help do nothing else but shutdown and remove the battery for 5 minutes | 15:09 |
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| chem|st | can be the chipset being in an odd state for some reason and as long it is not shutdown completely eg powerloss it wont recover... I had that with wlan in somewhat 1.0.2 | 15:10 |
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| fledermaus | chem|st: I see. | 15:10 |
| chem|st | if it reappears, contact care (zendesk) for fixing it | 15:10 |
| fledermaus | as I say, it's working now, so hopefully it is ok. | 15:10 |
| fledermaus | thanks for the info. | 15:11 |
| chem|st | start playback and abuse your phone, and you will see if it is a loose conenction somewhere | 15:11 |
| fledermaus | that's what seemed to work - of course 1 incident is not conclusive :) | 15:11 |
| chem|st | I had once no sound but BT (regularly, like every other day), no issues ever since | 15:12 |
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| coderus | how to properly install QTranslator from plugin? | 18:34 |
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| coderus | plzzz | 18:51 |
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| coderus | okay, right way is by using initializeEngine | 19:23 |
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| FloR707 | I would like to do a notification in my app like the one you see when getting a SMS. Does anybody know where I can find the code for that? | 19:26 |
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| FloR707 | Why is it not possible for Qt.formatDateTime to transform this date object Thu Mar 17 23:00:00 2016 GMT+0200? I created the date object with new Date() | 19:49 |
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| coderus | FloR707: https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/nemo-qml-plugin-notifications/ | 19:57 |
| FloR707 | Thanks! Why do I never find the stuff I am looking for on the web… | 19:59 |
| coderus | same docs also available by pressing F1 in Qt Creator | 20:04 |
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| FloR707 | I solved my issue with having wrong dates in my XmlListModel. The problem was that the time stamps when converted to a date were a few seconds off. I read the time stamp from the xml file like this XmlRole { name: "datum"; query: "datum/number()" }. This modified the time stamp on the last two digits! Now I read it as a string and multiply it by 1000 bevor using Qt.formatDateTime. Is this a bug or did I do the XmlRole wrong? | 20:20 |
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| coderus | you should respect xml items data types :) | 20:28 |
| coderus | Ambience Powermenu2 patch: https://openrepos.net/content/coderus/powermenu2-ambience-switcher | 20:28 |
| FloR707 | Nice. Are you putting it on harbour? | 20:31 |
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| coderus | of course no | 20:41 |
| coderus | its so complex for harbour qa | 20:41 |
| coderus | they will reject it after seeing screenshot :D | 20:42 |
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| juiceme | deztructor, just going back to home from the party. was really nice meeting you! ;) | 20:50 |
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| M4rtinK | I kinda wonder if some of the Harbour rules should be rethinked, given the current situation | 21:02 |
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| Stskeeps | raise it | 21:02 |
| M4rtinK | as more apps in Harbour could only be good for the platform | 21:02 |
| M4rtinK | Stskeeps: yeah, it might be a good topic | 21:02 |
| r0kk3rz | the last meeting about harbour wasnt that productive really | 21:04 |
| M4rtinK | overall something like "making Harbor more accessible for developers/apps" | 21:05 |
| M4rtinK | there might be more ways how to go about it | 21:06 |
| M4rtinK | well, yeah | 21:06 |
| M4rtinK | I think Harbor (well, the official platform app store) has been a mess since ever | 21:07 |
| r0kk3rz | without having a clear idea of what goal QA is trying to achieve, its hard to give good suggestions on how the community can help with that | 21:07 |
| M4rtinK | it always felt really really neglected | 21:07 |
| r0kk3rz | M4rtinK: yeah agreed, many promises and not a huge amount of delivery | 21:07 |
| M4rtinK | r0kk3rz: that's why I'm not holding my breath | 21:07 |
| M4rtinK | as even *much* simpler stuff took ages to implement | 21:08 |
| M4rtinK | and tons of stuff have been requested or even promised but are still not there | 21:08 |
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| r0kk3rz | perhaps jolla didnt see themselves in the services business | 21:09 |
| r0kk3rz | just the operating system business | 21:09 |
| M4rtinK | like there are still no comment notifications for developers to this day | 21:11 |
| M4rtinK | not to mention even a very simple Web interface | 21:11 |
| M4rtinK | Basil had both on OpenRepos basically since day one | 21:11 |
| M4rtinK | I think these things are seriously damaging the platform | 21:11 |
| M4rtinK | well, people kinda expect an appstore/application repository on a mobile OS these days | 21:12 |
| M4rtinK | and it should not be *that* difficult to do properly | 21:13 |
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| r0kk3rz | well coming from android/ios/windows youd expect more than just a store | 21:13 |
| r0kk3rz | push notifications, cloud storage, the whole shebang | 21:13 |
| tbr | nobody cared enough about my push notification concept, so I dropped the ball | 21:15 |
| M4rtinK | and I don't really see OEMs handling that | 21:15 |
| M4rtinK | like Intex launching a native Sailfish OS appstore... | 21:15 |
| r0kk3rz | tbr: nobody at jolla anyway | 21:15 |
| M4rtinK | not to mention that would place a considerable burden on application developers | 21:15 |
| M4rtinK | having to upload stuff to multiple app stores for no good reason at all | 21:15 |
| M4rtinK | tbr: yeah, that was a rather sad affair how your push project was ignored... | 21:16 |
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| M4rtinK | and I'm afraid this happens all around Sailfish OS - people trying to help being ignored | 21:17 |
| M4rtinK | like the guy trying to port various SDL based games: https://together.jolla.com/question/109036/bug11928-sdl2-is-still-broken/ | 21:18 |
| M4rtinK | SDL2 has been broken for ages and if he tries to use a workaround it gets rejected by Harbor QA | 21:19 |
| M4rtinK | I'm afraid this can't get much worse... | 21:20 |
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| M4rtinK | also there is also some other developer who already has a bunch of N9 apps ported but is still waiting for paid apps support to release them | 21:24 |
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| r0kk3rz | payment processing does create a new legal headache though | 21:27 |
| tbr | I always wonder why developers insist on an in-shop solution. There are ways to roll your own. | 21:28 |
| r0kk3rz | activation keys is a good tried and true method | 21:29 |
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| M4rtinK | OK, added some topics | 21:54 |
| M4rtinK | (https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meeting-planning/) | 21:54 |
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| r0kk3rz | M4rtinK wasnt sdl2 an upstream problem? | 22:11 |
| M4rtinK | r0kk3rz: it's your problem once you ship it as part of your product :) | 22:12 |
| r0kk3rz | M4rtinK: true enough | 22:12 |
| M4rtinK | or at least instruct your QA not to block developers who are working around your broken libraries | 22:13 |
| M4rtinK | it feels kinda bizzare with all that we-will-only-ship-100%-stable-stuff-even-if-this-might-kill-our-platform-due-to-not-having-any-apps attitude | 22:14 |
| M4rtinK | that you have stuff that's is allowed but unusably broken... | 22:14 |
| M4rtinK | no wonder many developers don't bother with Harbor and go straight to OpenRepos | 22:15 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah i never did | 22:15 |
| M4rtinK | but I'm afraid unfortunately many developers just don't bother with Sailfish OS anymore when the hit stuff like this | 22:16 |
| [ol] | The problem with this approach is that many users don't bother with OpenRepos and use just Harbour. | 22:16 |
| M4rtinK | r0kk3rz: I basically need to have 2 modRana package version | 22:17 |
| r0kk3rz | M4rtinK: unsurprising, a butchered harbour version, and an openrepos fully featured version | 22:17 |
| M4rtinK | r0kk3rz: as modRana uses APIs that are provided by the Nemo middleware | 22:17 |
| M4rtinK | r0kk3rz: but even after being stable for years are still not officially allowed... | 22:18 |
| M4rtinK | r0kk3rz: exactly | 22:18 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah the double standard is very annoying 'we can ship things with package x, but you cant because unstable api" | 22:18 |
| M4rtinK | r0kk3rz: of course it took nontrivial amount of time to make it work like this | 22:19 |
| r0kk3rz | if you shipped the sdk update *before* the main release then devs can update their broken apps if need be | 22:19 |
| M4rtinK | r0kk3rz: time I could have used to improve the application itself instead of jumping though stupid hoops... | 22:19 |
| M4rtinK | r0kk3rz: yeah, that's a really big bucket of fail | 22:20 |
| r0kk3rz | to put it politely, yeah | 22:20 |
| M4rtinK | well, at least this can be already done partially thanks to the first wave updates | 22:21 |
| M4rtinK | at least if you don't actually use the SDK like me ;-) | 22:21 |
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| M4rtinK | even though I actually don't think modRana was ever broken by an update so far :-) | 22:22 |
| M4rtinK | so much for unstable API's | 22:22 |
| [ol] | This "double standard" makes perfect sense. If you ship an OS, when unstable API changes, you can fix your applications, but you can't fix all third-party applications. But users will blame you that upgrade breaks their favourite apps. | 22:22 |
| M4rtinK | yeah, if they have no apps, no apps can break :) | 22:23 |
| r0kk3rz | [ol]: yeah it makes sense, but its still annoying | 22:23 |
| M4rtinK | there is of course no perfect solution (at least with the budget Jolla has (or had :P) ) | 22:24 |
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| M4rtinK | but I think you might need to make a compromise sometimes | 22:24 |
| r0kk3rz | better to compromise and give devs a bit more freedom, but expect more responsibillity from them | 22:24 |
| M4rtinK | or you can still be perfect, all the way down to the bottom | 22:25 |
| M4rtinK | especially in the current situation | 22:25 |
| M4rtinK | also, there are already apps that no longer work | 22:25 |
| M4rtinK | the 3D dice lbt made back in 2013 for example | 22:26 |
| M4rtinK | even with all the lib-stability-theater | 22:26 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah i think broken apps is an eventuality that needs to be planned for and handled | 22:27 |
| M4rtinK | not to mention that abandoned apps using outside APIs will still break sooner or later | 22:27 |
| r0kk3rz | because, you'know, real world and stuff | 22:27 |
| M4rtinK | distros handle this basically in two ways: | 22:27 |
| M4rtinK | 1) stuff is opensource so can be rebuilt & patched by non-maintainers | 22:28 |
| M4rtinK | well, that's something Jolla might not be able to assure for all apps in the store | 22:28 |
| M4rtinK | even though it might be good PR from the security standpoint | 22:28 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah, plus maintainer manpower | 22:28 |
| M4rtinK | "apps in the open source category can be audited and are scanned by coverity/whatever" | 22:29 |
| M4rtinK | yeah | 22:29 |
| M4rtinK | 2) software has maintainers | 22:29 |
| M4rtinK | stuff that looses maintainer is dumped from the distro | 22:29 |
| M4rtinK | and that's basically it | 22:30 |
| M4rtinK | kinda brutal but works | 22:30 |
| [ol] | And now imagine how it looks from a point of regural user's view. | 22:30 |
| [ol] | "Your upgate is broken! My favourite apps don't work anymore!" | 22:30 |
| M4rtinK | sure, he has actually something to install | 22:31 |
| r0kk3rz | [ol]: they do that now, only with openrepos apps instead | 22:31 |
| r0kk3rz | or patches | 22:31 |
| M4rtinK | might need to switch to a different RSS reader once every 2-3 years though | 22:31 |
| [ol] | This is because OpenRepos is officially unsupported, and majority of users don't even know about it. | 22:31 |
| M4rtinK | well, I still get more users from OpenRepos | 22:32 |
| r0kk3rz | i do wonder whether they could abuse the rpm standard to get apps to signify which versions of libs they are tested with | 22:32 |
| M4rtinK | at least as far as I can find out from the limited stats harbour provides | 22:32 |
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| M4rtinK | r0kk3rz: um, you can easily set state in your dependencies | 22:32 |
| [ol] | r0kk3rz: This is a standard RPM feature called Requires. | 22:32 |
| M4rtinK | *state that | 22:32 |
| M4rtinK | yeah | 22:33 |
| M4rtinK | Requires: libfoo <= 1.5 | 22:34 |
| M4rtinK | for example | 22:34 |
| M4rtinK | if you know that 1.6 won't work with it anymore | 22:34 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah im thinking something softer than a requires | 22:35 |
| eugenio | the package would be removed when an OS upgrade happens though, won't it? | 22:35 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah, no removal, just enough to tell lipstick to stop it from launching until it gets upgraded | 22:35 |
| [ol] | Also, how can you know that your package will become incompatible with some future version of that library? | 22:36 |
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| M4rtinK | just use Boost :) | 22:36 |
| M4rtinK | on a more serious note | 22:36 |
| M4rtinK | Sailfish might be using an old version | 22:36 |
| [ol] | r0kk3rz: There is no need to tell lipstick. App will just crash on startup. :-) | 22:36 |
| M4rtinK | and you know that the current upstream released one no longer works | 22:36 |
| r0kk3rz | [ol]: i thought the point was to stop appcrashes | 22:37 |
| M4rtinK | I think this could be turned into PR :) | 22:37 |
| [ol] | r0kk3rz: Not starting an app and crashing on startup is the same from user's POV. | 22:37 |
| M4rtinK | "our store only accepts apps with active maintainers" | 22:37 |
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| r0kk3rz | [ol]: minor difference, but sure still loss of function | 22:38 |
| M4rtinK | "so it does not contain unmaintained crap that no longer works due to API breakage and is full of security holes due to all the stuff we forced the developer to bundle" | 22:38 |
| r0kk3rz | but its easier for jolla to say 'app devs must update apps, not our problem' | 22:38 |
| M4rtinK | well, eventually this might solve this for most cases: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps | 22:38 |
| M4rtinK | but it's not there yet | 22:39 |
| [ol] | M4rtinK: Sure, an app has an active maintainer just because this maintainer is active enough to submit it to Harbour. Usually maintainers become inactive after some time. | 22:39 |
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| M4rtinK | not to say no one tried to run it on a mobile platform yet | 22:39 |
| M4rtinK | also Jolla probably does not have time to contribute to it at the moment | 22:40 |
| [ol] | There are very few apps that have no active maintainer from the beginning. :-) | 22:40 |
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| M4rtinK | but as designed it solves the issues with ABI stability and ads some pretty nice security sandboxing | 22:40 |
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| M4rtinK | [ol]: sure :) but there is indeed a lot of stuff on android from my experience that is effectively unmaintained | 22:41 |
| M4rtinK | [ol]: and it shows - it might launch only to crash a while later | 22:41 |
| M4rtinK | [ol]: or no longer work due to using discontinued APIs | 22:42 |
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| M4rtinK | [ol]: not to mention you are screwed if you hit bugs or would like to add a feature as the appls are often closed | 22:42 |
| M4rtinK | [ol]: without a maintainer | 22:42 |
| [ol] | Android API is maintained by a company that is quite larger than Jolla. | 22:43 |
| M4rtinK | yeah | 22:43 |
| M4rtinK | and my point is that it still results in apps being effectively broken when not maintained | 22:44 |
| M4rtinK | even with all the resources Google has to maintain API stability | 22:44 |
| [ol] | And Google cares less about users complaining about broken upgrades. Users will blame Samsung, HTC, Xiaomi or Huawei instead. | 22:44 |
| M4rtinK | (not to mention the Android API feels like a hack on top of hack anyway ;-) ) | 22:45 |
| [ol] | Or will not complain because when API got discontinued, their phone is already old enough that there are no more upgrades for it. | 22:45 |
| r0kk3rz | protecting users is for losers anyway :P | 22:49 |
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