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| newin | hi guys | 01:30 |
|---|---|---|
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| newin | I just found this: http://www.darlinghq.org/for-developers/ios-support-information ... that could be interresting to see some (very) experimental support of IOS app | 01:36 |
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| Ingvix | san make webpirate somehow the default webbrowser for opening links from other apps? | 06:39 |
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| Ingvix | okay I found the solution | 06:44 |
| Ingvix | https://openrepos.net/content/enigma/default-browser-setting | 06:44 |
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| Ingvix | oh, it wasn't for sailfish | 06:46 |
| Ingvix | lol | 06:46 |
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| Ingvix | so the question is still open | 06:51 |
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| tortoisedoc | hello sailors! | 08:06 |
| lpotter | yo | 08:07 |
| tortoisedoc | to another day of fresh breezes! | 08:07 |
| Stskeeps | storms? | 08:07 |
| lpotter | them sea's gettin' a big rough... batten down the hatches! | 08:07 |
| tortoisedoc | aie, pour the rum down! | 08:07 |
| lpotter | lower the sails! | 08:08 |
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| tortoisedoc | up the bottles! | 08:08 |
| lpotter | that's be cool is jolla's next comms were are in sailing/pirate jargon | 08:09 |
| lpotter | if | 08:09 |
| tortoisedoc | heh | 08:09 |
| tortoisedoc | just missing them raising the pirate flag :/ | 08:09 |
| frinring_ | coderus, SfietKonstantinW : jay for open sources. reading the sources (though not fully grasping) of qml 5.3 as used in sfos gave me some idea what info might be missing for the qml engine there. qRegisterMetaType was not enough for a pointer type just used for passing between properties, it also wanted qmlRegisterUncreatableType on the pointed-to type, even if that's properties are nowhere accessed. seems qt 5.5 is more smart there, | 08:10 |
| frinring_ | but do not know why. in any case, this was the key to pass this stopper :) | 08:10 |
| lpotter | help me hoist it up 'der! | 08:10 |
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| tortoisedoc | aie here it comes! | 08:11 |
| lpotter | she's takin on water! bail faster! | 08:12 |
| tortoisedoc | man overboard! | 08:12 |
| tortoisedoc | at least we would have some communication from jolla :P | 08:13 |
| lpotter | that will be just like I said ^ :) | 08:13 |
| lpotter | if I was head of comms, thats what it would be like | 08:15 |
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| lpotter | which is probably why I am not head of comms | 08:15 |
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| tortoisedoc | lpotter : and w0t are you, then :P | 08:19 |
| lpotter | I'm just one of the guy with an oar | 08:25 |
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| stephg | lpotter: who has the drum then | 08:33 |
| lpotter | that got outsourced to a drum machine | 08:33 |
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| zGrr | moin :) | 08:37 |
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| frinring_ | can somebody point to some silica-based sample with an exclusive button group? where only one button can be checked (or none if unset) | 08:40 |
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| stephg | lpotter: lol | 09:02 |
| stephg | the relentless rise of automation :P | 09:02 |
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| Ingvix | where's default music player config located? | 09:07 |
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| entil | Stskeeps: would you have a moment to talk about how the sdk qtcreator gets its qDebug() output etc? I heard it's gdbserver but I found no hints of it; wondering if it's possible to get that over merssh | 09:09 |
| Stskeeps | entil: i have no idea :) | 09:09 |
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| entil | damn, I don't think anyone has, then :( | 09:10 |
| entil | the sdk ide likes to take its time compiling everything, building from the shell looks like it understands not all files were changed, but I lose that if I use the sdk ide to run the app, as it compiles so long | 09:10 |
| entil | maybe there's a way of making it print the qDebug() stuff then | 09:13 |
| r0kk3rz | entil: you can run the app from the shell, it will print the qdebug | 09:20 |
| entil | r0kk3rz: yeah, I just noticed I should probably find a way to inject merssh qmake CONFIG+=debug CONFIG+=declarative_debug CONFIG+=qml_debug into it | 09:21 |
| entil | but qmake seems to ignore that | 09:21 |
| entil | I think it might have actually worked, it's weird, let's wait for it to compile and see what happens :) | 09:22 |
| lainwir3d | o/ | 09:22 |
| entil | "CONFIG+=debug CONFIG+=declarative_debug CONFIG+=qml_debug -o Makefile" is visible when I say merssh make | 09:23 |
| entil | but later -DQT_NO_DEBUG | 09:23 |
| entil | close, but no bonus | 09:24 |
| entil | lainwir3d: should it be enough to tell qmake about those CONFIGs? | 09:24 |
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| lainwir3d | sorry, haven't read. I'll do that now | 09:26 |
| lainwir3d | ;-) | 09:26 |
| lainwir3d | what are you trying to do ? | 09:26 |
| entil | get the debug outputs for anything I run over ssh on the emulator without using qtcreator | 09:26 |
| entil | of course I wouldn't mind warnings and errors as well :D but qDebug() << "hey, we hit this code!"; is kinda important ;) | 09:27 |
| pykape | hi | 09:27 |
| pykape | is there a way to set the Silica TimePicker so that you can select seconds and minutes, not minutes and hours? | 09:28 |
| entil | lainwir3d: what the sdk tells me is: 18:03:12: Starting: "/home/mjt/.config/SailfishBeta7/mer-sdk-tools/MerSDK/SailfishOS-i486/qmake" /home/mjt/projects/SailfishOS/harbour-owncloud/harbour-owncloud.pro -r -spec linux-g++-32 CONFIG+=debug CONFIG+=declarative_debug CONFIG+=qml_debug | 09:28 |
| entil | afaik those things come from the environment as well | 09:29 |
| entil | MER_SDK_PROJECT_PATH=share//projects/SailfishOS/harbour-owncloud/ and stuff | 09:29 |
| djselbeck | pykape: you should have a look here: https://github.com/a-dekker/cooktimer | 09:29 |
| lainwir3d | hmmm | 09:30 |
| lainwir3d | weird | 09:30 |
| entil | I'll try the exact one that I got from the sdk to see if I can reproduce it | 09:30 |
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| lainwir3d | do you execute it remotely via a ssh command, or do you execute it inside a ssh session ? | 09:30 |
| pykape | djselbeck: thanks! I'll check it out | 09:31 |
| entil | remotely, I whipped this up yesterday; https://gist.github.com/mjtorn/5b713379897b733b0bc0 with aliases and env variables | 09:31 |
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| entil | I think I need a new alias build-debug but the problem is that if I can't get it running with debugs at all, I can't make an alias for it | 09:32 |
| entil | so the idea is I can say build && deploy && emu-run /usr/bin/harbour-owncloud | 09:33 |
| lainwir3d | are you launching the app directly ? Did you try prefixing with a bash instance ? | 09:34 |
| lainwir3d | probably won't change anything, but maybe worth a try | 09:34 |
| entil | bash doesn't understand how to run it | 09:35 |
| entil | emu-run bash /usr/bin/harbour-owncloud # <- if that's what you mean | 09:35 |
| entil | got this kind of stuff visible now tho "-DQT_QML_DEBUG -DQT_DECLARATIVE_DEBUG" | 09:35 |
| entil | by copypasting what the sdk gave me, basically | 09:36 |
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| entil | there should be qml-related debug on startup | 09:36 |
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| entil | lainwir3d: ok, fine, if I ssh in and then run it, I get debugs :) thanks for the help! | 09:43 |
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| lainwir3d | entil: yeah, but it's weird you can't have it by running "remotely" :-/ | 09:46 |
| entil | the app output in the sdk is a different tab/pane/window/thing so maybe it covertly opens an ssh connection and displays that | 09:47 |
| entil | googling for the gdb stuff it looks like it's required/launched when I choose to debug the app | 09:47 |
| entil | so that's a good hint but not applicable right now to this | 09:48 |
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| tortoisedoc | hmhm | 10:01 |
| coderus | frinring_: no, use ComboBox instead | 10:02 |
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| coderus | entil: you can stop using qDebug() and use QTextStream(stdout) << | 10:03 |
| jimbojambo | Hi there, some days ago I asked here how can i resolve zsoelim-groff conflict from nieldsk package to install man command. I tried to repackage it with merSDK without any success, I didn't understand how to import the directory structure of the already man package into the new project for found it in the merSDK. But this can't beat me, so I copied the entire files placement in the sailfishPhone and. | 10:04 |
| jimbojambo | . tadahh man works fine, but the è à ò é letters. | 10:04 |
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| entil | coderus: thanks, I might do that | 10:04 |
| frinring_ | coderus: sadly does not match the existing UX I am porting to Silica. There are three options whose spatial ordering also has spatial meaning, showing all three icons at the same time would be good to keep. currently playing with a row of switches, might work | 10:04 |
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| coderus | frinring_: show me original screenshot what you porting | 10:21 |
| coderus | there is no radio group or exclusive buttons in silica UX | 10:22 |
| coderus | and imo combobox is best for this case | 10:22 |
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| Ingvix | is there a command to create a alias kind of thing inside a bash file that doesn't create an alias that works outside the bash file or do I have to just unalias it in the end? | 10:27 |
| Ingvix | of the script | 10:27 |
| coderus | whaе are you talking about? | 10:28 |
| tortoisedoc | wow | 10:28 |
| tortoisedoc | an alias within a bash, which is not in a bash, and is not an alias in the first place? | 10:28 |
| * tortoisedoc confused | 10:28 | |
| Ingvix | I didn't say so | 10:29 |
| tortoisedoc | kidding | 10:29 |
| tortoisedoc | can you be more specific? | 10:29 |
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| coderus | Ingvix: put executable in PATH? :) | 10:30 |
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| tortoisedoc | hoho | 10:39 |
| tortoisedoc | pretty serious support case in tjc | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | hm? | 10:39 |
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| Ingvix | okay no problem anymore | 10:43 |
| tortoisedoc | https://together.jolla.com/question/122315/paid-updates-to-support-development-what-do-you-think/ | 10:43 |
| tortoisedoc | Stskeeps : ^ | 10:43 |
| tortoisedoc | aah | 10:43 |
| tortoisedoc | wrong url :P | 10:43 |
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| tortoisedoc | https://together.jolla.com/question/122390/hello-jolla-ive-been-waiting-for-a-repair-since-august/ | 10:43 |
| tortoisedoc | THIS ^is the correct one | 10:43 |
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| zGrr | paid support is a good idea, i think. i would go for it. | 10:46 |
| zGrr | but would that be enough to keep jolla afloat? | 10:46 |
| Yaniel | I kinda doubt enough people would go for it | 10:47 |
| zGrr | why not? | 10:47 |
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| Yaniel | they don't pay for android or ios updates either | 10:48 |
| Yaniel | or support | 10:48 |
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| zGrr | they do. just diffrently. | 10:48 |
| Yaniel | "what do you mean I paid for the phone and now I need to pay extra for the OS?" | 10:50 |
| zGrr | if you buy apple you pay for device and for support bundled together. | 10:50 |
| Yaniel | and you expect people to care? | 10:51 |
| Yaniel | sure, the geek crowd would probably understand (mostly) | 10:51 |
| Tofe | I think the most promising way is via sailfish licensing and porting; I would pay for sailfish on a third-party high-end phone, for instance. | 10:51 |
| Yaniel | ^ sounds more reasonable IMHO | 10:51 |
| zGrr | so would i | 10:51 |
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| Stskeeps | Tofe: out of morbid curiousity, is it due to the UX, the fact it cares about your privacy, or the gnu/linux core? | 10:52 |
| zGrr | but then, who would license it if not the end user? | 10:52 |
| zGrr | how do you want to make samsung or htc or even makers of the shenzen smartphones to sign the contract with jolla? | 10:54 |
| zGrr | might be easier to ask end users. | 10:54 |
| zGrr | i would definitely go for it. | 10:54 |
| Yaniel | this only works for 3rd party devices | 10:55 |
| Yaniel | (okay that is not that much of an issue given how many jphones there are to begin with) | 10:55 |
| Stskeeps | Tofe: because sometimes the latter is a real pain in the ass :) | 10:55 |
| zGrr | what you mean by "third party devices"? | 10:55 |
| Yaniel | "not made by jolla" | 10:55 |
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| Yaniel | I suppose jolla could sell device+sfos readily flashed bundles | 10:56 |
| zGrr | ... it tried | 10:56 |
| Stskeeps | what i'm trying to get at, let's imagine that jolla didn't exist yet, today, what would you want for a different experience on your mobile devices? | 10:57 |
| Stskeeps | and n9 died suffucating in it's sleep and nothing continued possible | 10:57 |
| Yaniel | mostly the privacy + hackability that comes from the _actually exposed_ linux core | 10:57 |
| zGrr | i think that we live in a strange world where end users are not your customers. | 10:57 |
| Yaniel | but yeah, that's just me | 10:57 |
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| Stskeeps | Yaniel: then again, if the basics there are working telephony, bluetooth, wifi, nfc, etc middleware, who'd want to touch those? | 10:58 |
| SfietKonstantinW | Stskeeps: at first I would go privacy hackability | 10:58 |
| Stskeeps | ignoring all the ux parts | 10:58 |
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| SfietKonstantinW | but after thinking about it, UX is very important | 10:58 |
| Yaniel | I didn't mean hacking those | 10:58 |
| zGrr | i don't know mobile phone market, but i see that most people don't buy their mobiles. they get it bundled together with the contract from the network. | 10:59 |
| Yaniel | but the base system offers a lot of functionality other than that | 10:59 |
| zGrr | some are frustrated with the lack of choice. | 10:59 |
| Yaniel | (shell, fs access, cron, scripting with python/whatever, ssh, ...) | 10:59 |
| zGrr | and those frustrated ones are you potential customer base. | 10:59 |
| r0kk3rz | Stskeeps: something that pushes more on the 'mobile computer that just happens to have telephony' than the 'mobile phone that also kinda computes' | 11:00 |
| Yaniel | that's what I'd look for form a geekphone | 11:00 |
| Yaniel | s/form/in/ | 11:00 |
| zGrr | i don't mind to pay extra just to have a system i like and find useful. | 11:01 |
| Yaniel | since it is a phone after all I expect all the telephony etc stuff to "just work" | 11:01 |
| Stskeeps | nod | 11:02 |
| r0kk3rz | Stskeeps: also i think the main issues are not so much the device or the OS itself, but the services that go along with it | 11:03 |
| zGrr | a lot of people need and want a mobile ultraportable communicator. voice is just one of it's functions. not even the most important one in many cases. | 11:03 |
| r0kk3rz | AAPL does the whole walled garden thing, GOOG does the 'you can do what you want but we're watching' thing | 11:03 |
| r0kk3rz | theres room for a 'actually just serve the customer' thing i think | 11:04 |
| zGrr | they are definitely watching, but you cannot do what you want, r0kk3rz | 11:04 |
| SfietKonstantinW | r0kk3rz: what kind of services do you think that they are important ? | 11:05 |
| Yaniel | +1 for the 'actually just serve the customer' | 11:05 |
| r0kk3rz | you can sideload (ugh) apps, use third party stores, replace goog apps with other similar apps | 11:05 |
| r0kk3rz | SfietKonstantinW: things like push notifications primarily | 11:05 |
| r0kk3rz | maybe not everything that google play services does, but a kinda play services alike that isnt attached to an advertising company | 11:06 |
| Yaniel | Jolla Sail Services | 11:07 |
| zGrr | there are also corporate customers | 11:07 |
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| zGrr | currently they don't have much choce with mobile phones. | 11:07 |
| tbr | someone said push services? ;) | 11:07 |
| r0kk3rz | Stskeeps: ive also been toying with the idea of a 'spotify for apps' type subscription service, all apps available, no spying, no ads, maybe some email and cloud storage thrown in for more value | 11:08 |
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| tbr | r0kk3rz: like office360. software as subscription/service | 11:08 |
| Yaniel | r0kk3rz: spotify kinda skips the no spying part though | 11:08 |
| r0kk3rz | Yaniel: theres a minimal level of usage tracking you need for that model | 11:09 |
| Yaniel | that does not contain access to my address book though | 11:09 |
| r0kk3rz | ie. aggregated usage stats that said 1000 users use your app this month, you get million dollar | 11:09 |
| Yaniel | sure | 11:09 |
| urjaman | lol | 11:09 |
| r0kk3rz | tbr: yeah basically what microsoft is doing, except without being microsoft | 11:09 |
| tbr | hehe | 11:10 |
| Yaniel | I'm fine with that | 11:10 |
| tbr | basically this goes in the direction of a freemium model | 11:10 |
| urjaman | i'd expect those numbers to be the other way around really... | 11:10 |
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| r0kk3rz | urjaman: yes its a trite example | 11:10 |
| Yaniel | they can know what user I am and what I use to connect to their service - because that is relevant to actually providing the service | 11:10 |
| Yaniel | but they don't need to know any phone numbers I'm storing on my device | 11:11 |
| r0kk3rz | tbr: usually 'freemium' is supported by backhanded tactics though, like in app purchases, or ads | 11:11 |
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| tbr | r0kk3rz: depends, reduced functionality/features is also common | 11:12 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah thats true | 11:12 |
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| r0kk3rz | but the other part of the idea was to be platform agnostic as much as possible | 11:15 |
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| r0kk3rz | androidy runtime is becoming a defacto standard of sorts, the problem is play services | 11:16 |
| r0kk3rz | although MS just dropped their androidy runtime for windows phones | 11:17 |
| leinir | well, they did, because the way they were doing it was... well, not zero-effort for developers... even blackberry's just-wrap-your-stuff-in-a-bar thing was too much for most | 11:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | I was going to mention sailfishes alternative, then I noticed the channel. | 11:25 |
| SpeedEvil | ) | 11:25 |
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| Tofe | Stskeeps: the latter comes first, then privacy, then UX | 11:52 |
| zGrr | there are no alternatives i would know of. | 11:52 |
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| Tofe | Stskeeps: I don't want to use a system I don't understand, not for an important tool such as my main phone; also I want a minimum of consistency between the systems I use at home. That way, the possibilities are almost endless, without always relying on third-party apps. | 12:04 |
| Stskeeps | nod | 12:04 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | also first Linux, then privacy then UX for me | 12:06 |
| Ingvix | is "or" a working condition if used after "if"? | 12:07 |
| Ingvix | or is it just if...else...fi | 12:07 |
| Stskeeps | M4rtinK_tohkbd: i'm actually privacy, UX, then the core matters less as long as i can browse it | 12:07 |
| Stskeeps | we already have a massive amount of android drivers | 12:08 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | preferaly in a somewhat usale overall shape though | 12:08 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | say early n900 or jolla, not FreeRunner | 12:08 |
| Ingvix | can I use if...or...else...fi? | 12:08 |
| Ingvix | oh, forgot then | 12:09 |
| Ingvix | but anyway | 12:09 |
| Tofe | Ingvix: if you don't even say what language you want to use, it will be pretty impossible to answer... | 12:09 |
| Ingvix | I don't know what language it is by name in linux | 12:09 |
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| coderus | bash? | 12:10 |
| Ingvix | oh, yeah | 12:10 |
| coderus | google bash conditions please :) | 12:10 |
| coderus | teach yourself | 12:10 |
| Ingvix | I don't like to use google | 12:10 |
| coderus | use other search you like | 12:10 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | Stskeeps: I still thing the core is very important for app development purposes | 12:11 |
| Ingvix | maybe I will | 12:11 |
| Stskeeps | M4rtinK_tohkbd: well, qt is practically it's own library OS.. | 12:11 |
| Ingvix | tho it would be faster just to say no or yes | 12:11 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | Stskeeps: current mobile options are actively harming that | 12:11 |
| Stskeeps | hm? | 12:12 |
| rbn | so, is there more information about what's going on with jolla (and sailfishos), or just some finnish newspaper articles? | 12:12 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | not to mention needlessly ruining cross platform compatiility | 12:12 |
| Stskeeps | rbn: there'll be more coming during today i think | 12:12 |
| rbn | Stskeeps: ok.. i really would like to continue using sailfish :/ | 12:12 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | or being asically unupdatale (security!!) and locked down | 12:13 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | Stskeeps: sure, but what mobile OS are left with default Qt support ? | 12:14 |
| Stskeeps | M4rtinK_tohkbd: probably not many by now :) | 12:14 |
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| locusf | nemo? | 12:15 |
| coderus | BB10 | 12:15 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | and while Qt is comprehensive, more advanced apps might require a sane OS underneeth | 12:15 |
| Tofe | LuneOS ;) | 12:15 |
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| rbn | i think btw. that sailfish has really the potential to be a true opensource mobile os.. the communitiy is great, look at all the hybris ports. and new apps are still coming in. | 12:17 |
| Tofe | M4rtinK_tohkbd: with systemd / wayland / Qt, you get a quite sane set of functionalities | 12:18 |
| coderus | harbour too strict, no paid apps support = no future | 12:18 |
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| Tofe | coderus: harbour being strict is subjective: you can't do low-level apps, but you get stability through updates | 12:21 |
| coderus | you cant make share plgins, you cant make accounts plugins, you cant make apps autostart, you cant put settings in settings - apps menu, you cant use dbus services, you cant make anything working in background. etc.etc.etc. | 12:23 |
| Tofe | ok, you win :) | 12:24 |
| coderus | i'm sure 80% users using only apps from Jolla Store, not downloading any rpms, not adding any obs repositories, not installing warehouse. | 12:24 |
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| coderus | they see very little amount of apps and services, using android apps for a while, then selling phone. | 12:25 |
| coderus | as result no recomendations to friends, jolla sales not growing | 12:25 |
| coderus | company cant live selling devices to geeks only | 12:26 |
| coderus | << everything is just imho | 12:26 |
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| Smar | bootstrapping is expensive :) | 12:27 |
| lainwir3d | well, i'm using jolla store only, and i'm pretty much happy :P | 12:27 |
| Smar | but I’d hope it’d be more than 80 % users not using warehouse or jolla’s sales really, really tiny... | 12:27 |
| lainwir3d | but I admit I'm not a good representation of a "normal" smartphone user | 12:28 |
| r0kk3rz | Smar: guestimates put the number under 100k maybe not even 50k | 12:29 |
| coderus | well, in my experience enough peoples downloading pacages from internet, even if satisfied with native store app | 12:29 |
| coderus | just because exclusive apps outside store. that doesnt mean that users are geeks or so | 12:30 |
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| Smar | not even 50k... well even then I’d say less than 20 % has warehouse installed | 12:30 |
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| Smar | it’s just that you’d first need to find warehouse and then you’d need to know what you want from there | 12:30 |
| Smar | it’s not good tool for advertising your package | 12:31 |
| coderus | btw, i have no idea why jolla never published info ho many phones sold, how manн active users and so | 12:31 |
| coderus | Smar: usually peoples just googling "xxx for jolla" "xxx for sailfish" and first links are openrepos :D | 12:31 |
| Smar | too low figures I guess, harder to lure investors | 12:31 |
| Smar | coderus: but you can install it from there directly, right? | 12:31 |
| coderus | yes | 12:32 |
| coderus | i'm not talking about warehouse | 12:32 |
| Smar | ah, sure | 12:32 |
| coderus | i'm talking about users in total installing any packages outside store, any methods | 12:32 |
| rbn | i have no idea why jolla never pushed the "we aren't spying on you" thing, even to politics. | 12:32 |
| Smar | I have non-googleplay android app installed too ;) | 12:32 |
| coderus | Smar: for android users it's easieк | 12:33 |
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| coderus | i mean for jolla owners who used android before | 12:33 |
| Smar | r0kk3rz: maybe they didn’t have enough budget for doing any real advertisement | 12:33 |
| Smar | rbn: * | 12:33 |
| coderus | most of them know what to do and where to install apk | 12:33 |
| Smar | coderus: why? | 12:33 |
| rbn | *? | 12:33 |
| Smar | I know how that worked from symbian... :P | 12:34 |
| Smar | I mean, setting the switch from settings so you can install third party packages | 12:34 |
| Smar | I guess that’s needed on jolla too | 12:34 |
| coderus | yeah, symbian imрo had about 70% apps outside ovi store :D | 12:34 |
| coderus | imho* | 12:34 |
| Smar | I used symbian before it had ovi store :) | 12:34 |
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| Smar | or any store, anyway | 12:34 |
| coderus | sure :) | 12:35 |
| coderus | Smar: sailfish have switch for installing 3rd paкty packages .lol | 12:35 |
| Smar | yeah anyway, I see it fairly intuitive that a person finds it from settings after package refuses to install itself | 12:35 |
| coderus | sure | 12:37 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | the store and general app developer side of Sailfish defnitely feels like the most neglected part of the effort | 12:43 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | at least IMHO | 12:43 |
| coderus | store should be the best part of sailfish, now it worst one | 12:44 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | given that apps are usually the lifeblood of a platform this feels weird | 12:44 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | even if you target oems | 12:44 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | no one will license os with the app ecosystem in this state | 12:45 |
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| ttyp0 | well, I suppose a big part of that problem is not being able to create paid apps | 12:53 |
| ttyp0 | why make something for free when Apple and Google pay you for your effot | 12:53 |
| ttyp0 | effort* | 12:53 |
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| Smar | I wish jolla had proper budget, then it could just pay for some companies (see Nokia with Rovio) to develop something decent just to lure some people in that way :P | 12:56 |
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| Smar | to give users something they want to use | 12:56 |
| tortoisedoc_ | no news yet? | 12:56 |
| Smar | guess that’s why apple has made some many ”own” apps too | 12:56 |
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| lainwir3d | ttyp0: I think it's quite difficult and costly to develop paying app support for all countries | 12:59 |
| lainwir3d | might have been better to limit it to some countries first | 12:59 |
| lainwir3d | or maybe offer a "pro sdk" paying sdk version, which could have helped them raise money for that | 12:59 |
| lainwir3d | in exchange for priority in harbour QA for example | 13:00 |
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| coderus | of course all app developers who publishing paid apps paying to store company monthly/year subscription | 13:02 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | I dont think whats asically paid software for individual people would work here | 13:02 |
| coderus | its how things works | 13:02 |
| Smar | well, doesn’t at least apple still charge you something for app development account | 13:02 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | same thing woth paid updates | 13:03 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | subscriptions imho only really work on the company/enterprise level | 13:03 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | they cam get awaz with this and other shit they force on the developers | 13:04 |
| ttyp0 | depends. I want to see Solu's subscription-based service succeed. | 13:04 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | as afaik ios apps are still the most profitable | 13:05 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | still I know a few people who quit ios development due to all that bullshit | 13:05 |
| ttyp0 | I dislike the closed ecosystem with all these stupid restrictions... 100MB hard-limit for cellular downloads? puh-lease. | 13:06 |
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| r0kk3rz | M4rtinK_tohkbd: given how bigger players such as BB and MS are struggling to find traction, maybe OEMs didnt want to take the risk | 13:19 |
| frinring_ | hmpf, IconButton does not inherit from BackgroundItem, other than claimed on https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/silica/qml-sailfishsilica-sailfish-silica-iconbutton.html/ | 13:21 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | but they did also some pretty stupid stuff to | 13:21 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | not to mention bb10 basically dumping app developer overboard | 13:22 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | *developers | 13:26 |
| coderus | frinring_: yeah, wtf :D | 13:26 |
| coderus | email to developer-care@jolla.com | 13:27 |
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| frinring_ | coderus: k, email sent | 13:36 |
| coderus | give me result values of dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.get_config string:"/system/osso/dsm/powerkey/dbus_action1" action1 to action6 on phone not using powermenu2 please | 13:37 |
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| Smar | ttyp0: heh, it changed like half a year ago, previously it was 50M... :P | 14:19 |
| Smar | ttyp0: but anyway, since apple targets to US, it makes sense | 14:19 |
| Smar | since their mobile connections are retarded | 14:19 |
| urjaman | apps that wont accept to use cellular to download their thing are the worst | 14:20 |
| urjaman | (i've had a phone as a wifi hotspot for other phone to DL stuff...) | 14:20 |
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| ttyp0 | I disagree with the sense part. If the device warned me and required confirmation before downloading bigger files over cellular it would be okay. It would also be okay if it was a setting that by default limits download size over cellular but one that I could disable from the settings | 14:54 |
| ttyp0 | but an absolute, forced hard limit is just inane. imo. | 14:55 |
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| coderus | anyone? | 14:58 |
| coderus | please anyone :) | 15:00 |
| tadzik | coderus: 1 moment | 15:01 |
| Smar | ttyp0: does your mobile broadband start charging extra after you’ve downloaded 50M in a month? :P | 15:02 |
| ttyp0 | no | 15:02 |
| ttyp0 | has no effect on my points above | 15:03 |
| tadzik | coderus: https://gist.github.com/tadzik/923467a529a5d99528b2 | 15:03 |
| Smar | the sense is in guarding people from their own stupidity, if I may say it rudely | 15:03 |
| coderus | tadzik: thank you :) | 15:04 |
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| tadzik | coderus: you're welcome :) | 15:04 |
| Smar | apple don’t want to sell something that’s useful, it wants to sell something people won’t complain about and wants to buy again | 15:04 |
| tadzik | are we in denial that apple is making useful stuff regardless of whether we agree with their philosophy or not? | 15:05 |
| ttyp0 | smar, which, imo, does not make sense. :D | 15:05 |
| ttyp0 | Darwin needs to get what Darwin is due, even if it was in terms of a stupid person's finances! | 15:05 |
| Smar | ttyp0: yes, since we know how to use the damn phone :P | 15:06 |
| ttyp0 | smar, I know I don't represent the majority on this :) | 15:06 |
| Smar | I mean, consider situation where almost all connections are rate-limited | 15:06 |
| Smar | that means about everyone else than europe by my expenience | 15:07 |
| ttyp0 | still, a setting that was on by default but could be disabled would be lovely | 15:07 |
| tadzik | Smar: where exactly in europe are you? :) | 15:07 |
| Smar | tadzik: finland | 15:07 |
| tadzik | hah | 15:07 |
| tadzik | inb4 check your priviledge | 15:07 |
| Smar | europe has rate limited connections too? :o | 15:07 |
| Smar | I mean | 15:07 |
| Smar | data amount limited | 15:07 |
| tadzik | yes | 15:07 |
| ttyp0 | smar, not sure about Korea, they have some insane broadband home connections for peanuts | 15:07 |
| Smar | okay | 15:07 |
| Smar | ttyp0: my 350/50 connection is 50 e/mo, I wanna it cheaper ;; | 15:08 |
| tadzik | I only recently switched from paying 7 PLN for 200 MB IIRC | 15:08 |
| Smar | :| | 15:08 |
| tadzik | now I have 2GB included in my 30 PLN packet | 15:08 |
| tadzik | before that I paid 3 PLN for 25 MB and I was happy | 15:08 |
| tadzik | (divide by 4 for €) | 15:08 |
| Smar | poor you | 15:09 |
| tadzik | but that was in N900 days, which didn't have an ONN data usage policy | 15:09 |
| ttyp0 | I had 400/40 in Tallinn for about 43€/month but had to give it up when we moved :( | 15:09 |
| Smar | I used to have 25 MB package when I had a symbian phone, so it’s quite a long ago... :) | 15:09 |
| ttyp0 | now I just have a max. rate LTE | 15:09 |
| tadzik | hell, when I was in Norway a year ago I still paid insane amount for 200 MBs | 15:09 |
| Smar | well, it requires fiber to get cheap connection :) | 15:10 |
| tadzik | fsvo cheap at least :) | 15:10 |
| ttyp0 | while in Finland I have a rate unlimited data unlimited mobile contract but when I'm home it's 15GB/month and probably rate limited as well | 15:11 |
| ttyp0 | (Sonera Sopiva) | 15:11 |
| tadzik | where is home? | 15:11 |
| ttyp0 | 8km outside of Tallinn, Estonia | 15:12 |
| tadzik | ah | 15:12 |
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| zGrr | currently i pay 15 PLN for 5GB or 10 PLN for 3GB in poland | 15:22 |
| Stskeeps | heh, didn't know you were in poland :) | 15:22 |
| tadzik | Sailfish User Group! | 15:24 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, wonder if we have enough by now in warsaw area :P | 15:24 |
| tadzik | I recall making a post on TJC somewhere, but I don't remember if anyone responded | 15:24 |
| tadzik | https://together.jolla.com/question/93253/sug-sailfish-user-groups/?sort=votes&page=1#94649 yeah, there's one more person | 15:25 |
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| zGrr | i think, there are some jolla enthusiasts in poland. i knew qute a few N9 users. | 15:29 |
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| Stskeeps | i can probably offer reflashing services for a beer | 15:31 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:31 |
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| coderus | Stskeeps: so, the flasher exists? | 15:31 |
| Tofe | coderus: depends on the beer, I guess | 15:32 |
| Stskeeps | coderus: of course we have flashing capability. | 15:32 |
| Tomin | I think a lot of people are capable of flashing after enough beer ;) | 15:34 |
| zGrr | ... or flushing. :) | 15:34 |
| sakustar | Stskeeps: is there an app for that | 15:34 |
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| M4rtinK_tohkbd | Stskeeps: deal ;) | 15:46 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | see, yet another input stream | 15:46 |
| M4rtinK_tohkbd | literally | 15:46 |
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| Zombywuf | So, I have a weird issue with the contacts on my phone, where it has decided that two people are the same person | 15:58 |
| Zombywuf | One of them has both their numbers, when I delete the wrong number it comes back straight away | 15:59 |
| Zombywuf | For that number it displays an icon of a globe with a messages bubble | 15:59 |
| Zombywuf | I suspect it's seeing that there are messages from that number labeled as being the wrong person so adding that number back to the person | 16:00 |
| Zombywuf | Anyone any idea how to fix this? | 16:00 |
| Zombywuf | Preferably without wiping my phone | 16:00 |
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| sakustar | probably delete said messages if they are the cause | 16:03 |
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| urjaman | hmm, this press release has literally 2 lines that have some new information (atleast from my pov)... the topic, and the last line before - Ends - | 16:26 |
| Ingvix | what's the desktop folder is for anyway? | 16:26 |
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| leszek | urjaman: yeah. I suggest we just wait and see what happens. What else can we do | 16:32 |
| urjaman | yeah, not much ... anyways i meant to make some note about that its a bit funny to have a 2 sentence message delivered in 2 pages of text (oh and the pdf subject having Microsoft Word - blah blah.docx is a bit ... very FOSS company :P) | 16:35 |
| coderus | Ingvix: what you asking about? | 16:36 |
| Ingvix | the desktop folder in the nemo folder | 16:37 |
| urjaman | i guess ~/Desktop | 16:37 |
| Ingvix | why is it there | 16:37 |
| leszek | Ingvix: I guess because xdg standard dris creates it | 16:37 |
| Ingvix | okay | 16:37 |
| urjaman | yeah i was just saying i guess its part of some std skeleton | 16:38 |
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| Stskeeps | Alternative history: What if Jolla never existed? - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1488802#post1488802 | 18:14 |
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| kimmoli | visual basic O_o | 18:42 |
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| leszek | xD | 18:56 |
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| coderus | f*ck the transitions | 19:43 |
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| leszek | coderus: ? | 19:49 |
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| coderus | qml transitions | 20:47 |
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