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| olpe | Nokius: pong | 07:37 |
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| Nokius | olpe: Tired working hours on the find5 (SFOS port) (dirty instaalation due to some missing package to install but GUI is broken What I can see will fix the install process and then I will send you some screenshots | 08:05 |
| olpe | okey thx Nokius | 08:07 |
| Nokius | olpe: may some libs are missing so may it's not losted | 08:07 |
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| olpe | Nokius: Is that because of the alpha build of SFOS you are running or is it something I should care about? | 08:38 |
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| Nokius | olpe: may I miss some package I will ask sledges about in will test than again and send you screenshots | 08:40 |
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| olpe | ok. no hurry. I'm too busy with school for another 2 weeks or so. Will be working on WHT later | 08:41 |
| Nokius | olpe: okay | 08:45 |
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| lantizia | you know how sailfishos is rpm not deb based? is that because mer these days is? | 10:31 |
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| oh8gnz_ | most likely | 10:32 |
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| Stskeeps | lantizia: it's rpm based since it's based off meego which is based off moblin which is based off fedora and opensuse in practice | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | deb based mobile os'es include ubuntu touch | 10:33 |
| lantizia | right but at one point mer was based off maemo | 10:33 |
| lantizia | not meego | 10:33 |
| lantizia | what happened to the old mer that was maemo based | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | died along with meego introduction | 10:34 |
| Stskeeps | wasn't worth doing two things at same time | 10:34 |
| lantizia | so no one continued that branch? | 10:34 |
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| Stskeeps | right | 10:34 |
| Stskeeps | it wasn't really sustainable anyway | 10:34 |
| lantizia | so it's either maemo with it's deprecated hildon interface, or ubuntu phone with it's horrid unity interface | 10:34 |
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| Stskeeps | yep | 10:35 |
| Stskeeps | or sailfishos, if you don't care about the packaging format and enjoy experience instead :) | 10:35 |
| lantizia | i'll stick with android | 10:35 |
| lantizia | at least that's all open source unlike sailfish | 10:35 |
| Stskeeps | except it's not, only AOSP is; in practice most of your experience is GMS based | 10:35 |
| lantizia | android is - g-apps isn't - there is a difference | 10:35 |
| Stskeeps | on a standard android phone | 10:35 |
| lantizia | you haven't got much of a sailfish without the parts jolla made right? | 10:36 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. but you should see how much stuff is tied to that nowadays :) | 10:36 |
| lantizia | where as aosp can stand on it's own - and others can do with it their own things like amazon have | 10:36 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not denying that sailfishos isn't fully open source, just saying that the grass isn't always greener on the other side | 10:36 |
| Yaniel | how many devices are there that can really run a 100% open android | 10:36 |
| Stskeeps | and it is still a massive load to productise a AOSP with everything around it | 10:37 |
| lantizia | Yaniel, i would direct you to see the cyanogenmod list given it's a fork of aosp and doesn't require g-apps to function | 10:37 |
| Stskeeps | anyway, you've probably made up your mind anyway, so it's your choice | 10:37 |
| lantizia | Stskeeps, F-Droid is all you'd need to keep it open source... a perfect app store for getting more open source apps | 10:38 |
| HelleDaryd | ick, I really have too many open Sailfish projects, half finished stuff | 10:38 |
| Yaniel | lantizia: yeah but doesn't that too use closed drivers? | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | closed drivers is the monster stepson we all keep in the attic | 10:38 |
| tbr | lantizia: if you care about open source, you toss out the sailfish binaries, pull in Nemomobile and have at least the top of the stack open. | 10:38 |
| lantizia | you may need closed source driver but *only* if your hardware needs them - no different to GNU/Linux on a PC today | 10:38 |
| tbr | lantizia: the bottom of the stack on pretty much _all_ devices will have lots of ugly closed bits. Sad reality. 3d gpu blobs, sensors, foo. | 10:39 |
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| lantizia | tbr, surely mer + nemo has nothing to do with sailfish or jolla then? | 10:39 |
| tbr | lantizia: it's a bit complicated, but pure nemo enables a fully open source phone UI | 10:40 |
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| tbr | lantizia: sailfish replaces many of those things with proprietary bits, foremost the silica UI framework. Arguably some of those are working much better or are unique. | 10:41 |
| lantizia | i'd really love it if someone like MATE would revive Hildon (like they did Gnome 2) | 10:42 |
| tbr | lantizia: you can toss out all the closed packages (top of stack) and have a working nemo on e.g. a jolla phone (or any of the other phones with a sailfish adaptation) | 10:42 |
| lantizia | hildon was the best UI I ever used | 10:42 |
| lantizia | nothing has really beaten the n900 i used to use tbh | 10:42 |
| lantizia | android is tolerable as a UI | 10:42 |
| tbr | I don't think new entrants to the mobile UI scene are at all likely | 10:42 |
| lantizia | well tizen will die - i'm sure the linux foundation will be stupid enough to yet again back a looser | 10:43 |
| * Stskeeps is still waiting for the alternative wearable uis instead | 10:43 | |
| lantizia | was the n9/n950 qt interface even remotely like hildon (like the n900)? as i never used an n9/950 | 10:44 |
| Yaniel | no | 10:44 |
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| Yaniel | but it was awesome | 10:45 |
| lantizia | why was it? | 10:45 |
| Yaniel | from what little I have used a N9 at least | 10:45 |
| lantizia | i loved how at all times hildon had a button that was minimize/task-switch, app-list & home screen in one (hate how android has two buttons for this) and always had a close button! | 10:46 |
| Stskeeps | and sailfishos doesn't have buttons | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:47 |
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| tbr | yeah, that button essentially was replaced with a gesture on harmattan and jolla went further with the idea | 10:47 |
| lantizia | if I could merge the bottom back/home/task buttons on android with the top bar that has status - and make the home button double up as both home & open app-list... i'd be in heaven | 10:47 |
| lantizia | oh and a close button wouldn't kill them - rather than having to open a stupid task list first | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | did you ever actually try out jolla ui? :P | 10:48 |
| Stskeeps | or check the ui | 10:48 |
| tbr | that used to be a single swipe on the jolla UI, but supposedly they are killing it off for 2.0 | 10:48 |
| lantizia | i'd need jolla hardware surely - won't install on my n900 | 10:48 |
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| Stskeeps | well, check some youtube videos | 10:48 |
| lantizia | will it go on nexus 4? | 10:49 |
| tbr | or one of the https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris | 10:49 |
| Stskeeps | it will | 10:49 |
| Yaniel | yeah well if you want a n900 you obviously won't like sailfish | 10:49 |
| tbr | sure | 10:49 |
| Stskeeps | Yaniel: well, our chief designer did the n900 ui too.. | 10:49 |
| lantizia | Yaniel, ok well no point in looking then | 10:49 |
| Yaniel | that would be like comparing... hmm let's say winxp to the wii | 10:49 |
| Stskeeps | not to mention tohkbd | 10:49 |
| lantizia | Stskeeps, surely gnome did the hildon ui - not the n900 designer | 10:49 |
| Stskeeps | lantizia: nooo | 10:49 |
| tbr | lol | 10:49 |
| Stskeeps | trust me, gnome had no hand in that ui :) | 10:50 |
| lantizia | ok then why is it a gnome project | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | it was gtk based, sure, but the ui was for sure nokia originated | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | some misguided attempt at trying to move closer to gtk who didn't want the patches anyway | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | and then went on a insanity spree leading to gnome3 | 10:50 |
| lantizia | well yeah I know the gnome folks have gone to insanity-ville | 10:51 |
| r0kk3rz | shame really | 10:51 |
| Stskeeps | and all the artwork surrounding n900 ui was nokia closed source too | 10:51 |
| lantizia | that's why I'm kinda hoping someone like MATE will revive Hildon | 10:51 |
| lantizia | but revive it with the UI that nokia did basically | 10:51 |
| lantizia | since they revived gnome 2 - wouldn't it be nice to see a mobile MATE :P | 10:51 |
| Yaniel | no | 10:51 |
| lantizia | or a QT based interface that is the same | 10:51 |
| Stskeeps | i've tried to revive hildon and get it working without nokia's help. that wasn't a happy experience. | 10:52 |
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| r0kk3rz | sounds like a job for the nemo guys | 10:55 |
| r0kk3rz | maybe not hildon exactly, but developing along those lines | 10:55 |
| Stskeeps | in practice anybody can make a much easier experience and nicer with a bit of lipstick magic, qt components and a lot of grease | 10:56 |
| HelleDaryd | anyone happen to know if it's easy to add just a new sharing service (as in 2-3 hours of work), I have a API to just work to, but the documentation on Sailfish side seems a bit of magic | 10:56 |
| lantizia | tbh i'd love to see something that has compatibility with the old maemo packages | 10:56 |
| lantizia | there are so many great apps still on that | 10:56 |
| lantizia | all in .deb | 10:56 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, good luck, it's all armhf today | 10:56 |
| Stskeeps | and that was softfp | 10:56 |
| lantizia | what was the n900? not armf? | 10:57 |
| Stskeeps | not armhf | 10:57 |
| lantizia | why is this guy install debian 7 armhf on an n900 then? https://wiki.debian.org/n900-wheezy-armhf | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | a chroot? | 10:59 |
| lantizia | no it looks directly on it | 11:00 |
| lantizia | there are instructions for partitioning | 11:00 |
| Stskeeps | replaces current system | 11:00 |
| lantizia | yeah | 11:01 |
| Stskeeps | anyway, we're going off topic for here, perhaps #maemo is more suitable for you | 11:01 |
| lantizia | wait you said n900 isn't armhf - that's wrong then? | 11:01 |
| Stskeeps | [12:56] <lantizia> tbh i'd love to see something that has compatibility with the old maemo packages | 11:01 |
| Stskeeps | everything is armhf today, so those can't | 11:01 |
| lantizia | right and if the n900 was armhf then packages made for it will be too | 11:02 |
| Stskeeps | and it's not | 11:02 |
| Stskeeps | n900/maemo | 11:02 |
| lantizia | what makes you think its not - since I've already provided a URL to indicate it *Is( | 11:03 |
| Yaniel | armf != armhf | 11:05 |
| Stskeeps | lantizia: because i've worked with the guys who made the toolchain for maemo/n900 and i can tell you, it's not | 11:05 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:05 |
| lantizia | Yaniel, except for my mistype earlier where i meant armhf - no one has mentioned or linked to armf | 11:06 |
| tbr | maemo5 was most decidedly not hardfloat. The actuall differences between emulated fp, soft-fp and hard-fp are lost on most people anyway. | 11:06 |
| lantizia | so debian calling their arch armhf is just a terminology thing - it doesn't explicitly mean hard float only? | 11:07 |
| lantizia | as wikipedia puts it "In Debian Linux and derivatives armhf (ARM hard float) refers to the ARMv7 architecture including the additional VFP3-D16 floating-point hardware extension (and Thumb-2) above" | 11:07 |
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| arnej | tbr: What are they killing off for 2.0? | 12:06 |
| r0kk3rz | arnej: go watch some youtubes about sfos2.0 from MWC | 12:10 |
| r0kk3rz | they're changing a lot of the ui and interaction design on the phone | 12:10 |
| arnej | Yes I saw that a lot changed in the UI. I hope they will not destroy my experience. I love the Sailfish UI :) | 12:12 |
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| r0kk3rz | so do i, but they have to compromise a lot to get good landscape support | 12:16 |
| schiggn | May someone give me a hint where to find default application definitions on my Jolla? Thanks! | 12:17 |
| tbr | arnej: the close gesture by swiping from the top, AFAIU | 12:20 |
| arnej | Oh no! | 12:20 |
| arnej | That's so handy | 12:20 |
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| r0kk3rz | jaakko has said that it encumbers the phone UX a bit compared to sfos1.0 | 12:23 |
| Acce | he also says: http://jaakkoroppola.blogspot.fi/2015/03/sailfish-os-growing-pains.html?showComment=1427269809947#c5912070213683127624 | 12:25 |
| arnej | Thanks for the link | 12:29 |
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| r0kk3rz | Acce: yeah I wouldnt get too worried about unreleased things | 13:16 |
| r0kk3rz | jolla moves fast | 13:16 |
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| r0kk3rz | things change | 13:17 |
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| compbio | Hello Everybody | 13:18 |
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| compbio | i would like to ask two questions | 13:18 |
| compbio | How can i download the SailFish OS source code ? | 13:19 |
| compbio | How can i boot it up on my Laptop ? | 13:19 |
| compbio | What are the devices Specs required to host a SailFish OS ? | 13:19 |
| Yaniel | that is a bit complicated | 13:19 |
| Yaniel | since SailfishOS consists of multiple parts | 13:20 |
| Nickleu | first of all, the silica ui is closed source | 13:20 |
| Yaniel | is mer/nemo as the core OS | 13:20 |
| Nickleu | but theoretically you can boot up a mer system on almost any device | 13:20 |
| Yaniel | then you need a hardware adaptation | 13:21 |
| Yaniel | and the Silica UI is jolla's closed-source thing | 13:21 |
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| compbio | What is Mer looking like ? is it just a linux system that boots up into shell console or what | 13:21 |
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| Yaniel | yes | 13:21 |
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| Yaniel | there is an open UI called glacier | 13:21 |
| tbr | yes, if you need an open source ui, look at nemomobile | 13:22 |
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| compbio | Yaniel , how can i download and add glacier ui to the source code , compile ,boot it up ? | 13:25 |
| compbio | and what are the specs of the device needed to boot up mer ? | 13:25 |
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| locusf | you need a special kickstart file in order to create a root filesystem which includes the glacier ui | 13:26 |
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| tbr | compbio: one thing that is maybe good to understand is that with Mer based systems there is a strict division between building binaries on one hand and creating the target filesystem on the other hand. | 13:29 |
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| tbr | the binaries are built and packaged using OBS - open build service. | 13:30 |
| compbio | tbr: what are the target filesystem | 13:30 |
| compbio | tbr :From where can i get the source code to build in the first place ? | 13:31 |
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| tbr | the target filesystem is created from those packages by a tool called MIC based on a kickstart file | 13:31 |
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| tbr | compbio: target filesystem == rootfs for the device that you are targetting | 13:31 |
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| compbio | tbr: MIC tool creates this rootFS during installation process on the hardware itself , kinda of linux | 13:32 |
| compbio | right ! | 13:33 |
| tbr | it does not create it _on_ the device, it creates it _for_ the device. | 13:33 |
| compbio | tbr: OOh | 13:33 |
| tbr | installing the rootfs, e.g. by flashing is yet another step | 13:33 |
| compbio | tbr: do you have gtalk account , | 13:34 |
| tbr | why? | 13:34 |
| compbio | accept my private | 13:34 |
| compbio | i need to chat with you privately if possible | 13:34 |
| compbio | tbr: if i need to understand all these steps in details for nemo , from where can i get tutorials for these | 13:36 |
| tbr | dm8tbr → gmail.com -- please note that I only offer private support in the form of paid consulting | 13:36 |
| compbio | sure that is what i need | 13:36 |
| locusf | I should start doing that too :) | 13:37 |
| tbr | locusf: want to start a mobile phone company? ;) | 13:37 |
| locusf | tbr: nono just private support for nemo :p | 13:37 |
| compbio | tbr: You are Thomas Ruecker ? | 13:38 |
| tbr | yes | 13:38 |
| compbio | i am talking with you through gtalk | 13:38 |
| compbio | may you answer me please there ? | 13:38 |
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| coderus | drama | 13:57 |
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| Morpog_PC | :D | 14:33 |
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| PaulfraOSAA | If I wanted to have a view of a Q(Sql)TableModel in Silica how would I do that? Use the TableView from Controls and skin it? | 16:17 |
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| coderus | PaulfraOSAA: if you want to port Controls to Sailfish - you welcome :) | 16:46 |
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| PaulfraOSAA | Well, I think maybe just using the TableViewStyle with the standard Theme values might get me some of the way. That would be an (the only?) option though, right? | 16:47 |
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| r0kk3rz | not the only, you can construct your own view for the model | 16:54 |
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| coderus | my jolla touch is crazy when phone connected to charger/pc | 20:58 |
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| arnej | coderus: Like not reacting on double-tap? | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | coderus: standard jolla charger? | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | or which charger | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | ESD is such a fun thing | 20:59 |
| r0kk3rz | sounds like somethings shorting out... | 21:00 |
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| coderus | arnej: no, double tap is okay | 21:19 |
| coderus | scrolling is laggy when connected to something | 21:20 |
| coderus | Stskeeps: yes jolla charger | 21:20 |
| coderus | same with N9 charger | 21:20 |
| coderus | probably something wrong with power here :D | 21:20 |
| coderus | *удусекшсшен | 21:21 |
| coderus | oh | 21:21 |
| coderus | *electricity | 21:21 |
| coderus | i'm in my mother house, not in my home | 21:21 |
| coderus | oh, it 242V here :D | 21:21 |
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| coderus | and jumping between 230-245 :D | 21:22 |
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| arnej | coderus: Didn't have that issue. My phone sometimes doesn't do anything when it's charging and locked and I double-tap to wake up the screen | 21:34 |
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| coderus | no, it awake, but feels very unresponsive on my touches when charging or connected to pc :) | 22:23 |
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| arnej | I will check the next days if that happens here too :) | 22:28 |
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