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| sandsmark | hmm, has anyone tried building a grsec kernel for the jolla? | 00:10 |
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| special | sandsmark: what are you interested in from grsec, in particular? | 00:23 |
| sandsmark | well, nothing in particular, but it blocks a lot of common attack vectors | 00:24 |
| sandsmark | uderef would be really nice | 00:24 |
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| sandsmark | actual aslr is also nice :) | 00:29 |
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| HBP_ | the common attack vector on mobile is the stupidity of the user, I think | 01:07 |
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| ShadowJK | mmm | 01:15 |
| ShadowJK | Considering that, even on Jolla, even such a simple thing as flasighliht, turned out to be bad | 01:15 |
| ShadowJK | ... I believe it's impossible to stop malware with the current methods, regardless of platform | 01:16 |
| ShadowJK | .. And how was user supposed to know not to download the flashlight app? hm? | 01:18 |
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| ShadowJK | Android as a whole has the issue of "Yes, it's bad, if you don't like it, don't use it" | 01:22 |
| ShadowJK | In the case of flashlight app, once it was revealed, the author relented and gave up, replacing spyware app with clean app | 01:23 |
| ShadowJK | But "peer pressure" only worked because sailfish is small enough | 01:23 |
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| HBP_ | yeah | 01:29 |
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| sandsmark | ShadowJK: true, proper sandboxing/permission system would be good as well | 04:05 |
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| sandsmark | gah, silica makes me feel so stupid | 04:39 |
| sandsmark | I want a page that disappears when the user swipes back from it | 04:40 |
| sandsmark | but if I call destroy() when the state is inactive, silica starts complaining about properties it can't set, and if I try to pop the page stack, it says I can't do it in the middle of an animation :V | 04:41 |
| sandsmark | and if it is a dialog, and I reject it, it isn't removed from the page stack | 04:46 |
| sandsmark | (it was me being stupid) | 05:08 |
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| tbr | interesting http://whiteboxcrypto.com/ | 07:16 |
| tbr | both on a platform and individual application level | 07:16 |
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| DiosDelRayo | morning | 07:46 |
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| tbr | moaning | 07:49 |
| DiosDelRayo | tbr I read this about wbc and beside that it is a really bad idea to store keys of any sort in an application I think it can never make something else then hide, and if you hide something you can still find it. So maybe an attacker would need a little bit more time to get the key, but in the end he will get the key if he has access and controll over the system. so imho I think is waste of ressources. key should in my opinion simply never | 07:50 |
| DiosDelRayo | be hardcoded. | 07:50 |
| tbr | DiosDelRayo: I agree, generally. API keys with rules attached to them to "never disclose", while not making sense, are a reality though. | 07:51 |
| DiosDelRayo | yep, API keys are a big mess. Good that I never used some :) | 07:55 |
| tbr | I'm still thinking of how we could solve the distribution problem for building software that needs such keys on OBS. | 07:58 |
| DiosDelRayo | what kind of software really need something like that? facebook-apps, youtube-apps,....? | 08:04 |
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| DiosDelRayo | anyway in an open system you can store it simply open and put in the file that api-keys which must be distributed to different clients is still stupid and the problem of the party which fore you to do so. | 08:08 |
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| tbr | putting keys in the open gets them revoked, however stupid you may find that, real life is a bitch | 08:10 |
| DiosDelRayo | http://www.opengroup.org/security/cdsa.htm | 08:10 |
| DiosDelRayo | I think something like that should be anyway implemented ;) | 08:10 |
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| DiosDelRayo | It's also something I miss really on my Jolla at the moment | 08:11 |
| DiosDelRayo | an other question, is there a unique id you can rely on the Jolla and in future on the Jolla Tablet? | 08:12 |
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| tbr | I think we had that topic at some point and identified a few things. I'm not sure if there is an official to the OS way. | 08:14 |
| DiosDelRayo | I was thinking about that after I installed tonight an from the Warehouse DeviceId and get ther Device Id xxxxx - Not unique | 08:14 |
| * tbr doesn't go anywhere near warehouse | 08:14 | |
| DiosDelRayo | why? | 08:15 |
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| tbr | wharehous is an amalgamation of random binaries of unknown provenance passed off as legitimate. No QA, no rules, just upload random stuff, no traceable source code. | 08:23 |
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| Morpog_PC | just like jolla harbour | 08:24 |
| * Morpog_PC hides | 08:24 | |
| coderus | tbr: ifharbour can be less restrictive for at least obs builds it will make sense :) | 08:25 |
| coderus | but you know | 08:25 |
| coderus | we decided it many times | 08:25 |
| coderus | and we're all know reasons :) | 08:25 |
| tbr | 'decided'!? | 08:25 |
| coderus | oh | 08:25 |
| coderus | discussed i mean :) | 08:25 |
| coderus | other half of my brain didnt wake up yet :D | 08:26 |
| tbr | sure, I'm just restating my point and it hasn't changed a bit. | 08:26 |
| tbr | DiosDelRayo was not part of those conversations, so it might be new for him. | 08:26 |
| coderus | BasilSemuonov always saying obs - openrepos bridge almost done | 08:26 |
| coderus | but he always busy to test and launch it :D | 08:27 |
| * Morpog_PC whips BasilSemuonov | 08:27 | |
| coderus | if you choose obs in openrepos, you can't upload random binaries to application, and it will be marked with OBS TRUSTED tag :) | 08:28 |
| coderus | and you can setup warehouse to display only trusted stuff :D | 08:28 |
| tbr | I belive I've stated that before, this still doesn't address many other issues | 08:28 |
| tbr | something being built on OBS doesn't make it more trusted | 08:29 |
| coderus | tbr: but well, many of yours can use warehouse then :D | 08:29 |
| Morpog_PC | tbr, well even apps in harbour could have nasty stuff deep hidden | 08:29 |
| tbr | 'yours'? | 08:29 |
| coderus | you say "cannot trace source code" :D | 08:29 |
| coderus | Morpog_PC: thats true | 08:29 |
| tbr | coderus: yes, but that is not my only criticism. Addressing ONE point doesn't make the WHOLE problem go away. | 08:30 |
| coderus | i'm doing this to make my app pass QA :D | 08:30 |
| coderus | tbr: sure | 08:30 |
| Morpog_PC | :D | 08:30 |
| tbr | coderus: go back to square one, don't pass start, don't collect trust bonus | 08:30 |
| coderus | it just makes easier to check sources/maintainer and decide :) | 08:30 |
| tbr | it is small step in the right direction, yes | 08:30 |
| tbr | and as you said, we've had this discussion before, unless you are bringing something new to the table there is no need to go through this. | 08:31 |
| coderus | i never say it solves all problems :) | 08:31 |
| Morpog_PC | warehouse could have a chum section where only QA'ed apps appear from obs | 08:31 |
| coderus | just saying about some improvements pending :) | 08:31 |
| coderus | Morpog_PC: openrepos can be setup to show applications only from trusted section of obs | 08:32 |
| tbr | to sum this up, there's nothing new. Caveat emptor wrt Wharehouse. | 08:32 |
| * Stskeeps looks at coffee machine | 08:32 | |
| coderus | and yes we can create own obs openrepos_trusted section | 08:32 |
| coderus | and do QA here :) | 08:32 |
| tbr | we can close this discussion, if anyone wants to go through this, they can look at the previous logs on this. nothing new. | 08:32 |
| coderus | tbr: EXACTLY :) | 08:33 |
| Morpog_PC | tbr, sure but you tell newcomers always your points about warehouse | 08:33 |
| Morpog_PC | they don't know the whole discussion | 08:34 |
| tbr | Morpog_PC: yes, because even more often people will say "just go to whorehouse" it fixes everything, without clarifying anything | 08:34 |
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| tbr | Morpog_PC: and I'm happy to point out the previous discussions, as you noticed | 08:35 |
| Morpog_PC | true | 08:35 |
| tbr | Morpog_PC: people need to be aware and I don't think they are | 08:35 |
| coderus | tbr: but well, now my eyes are blind and i see only: "i'm not using any of your apps from openrepos" :D | 08:35 |
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| Morpog_PC | but in the other side there are well known and trusted community developers and even jolla sailors publishing apps there. Should we really warn about these too? | 08:36 |
| tbr | making informed decisions is important on a platform that emphasizes privacy amont other things | 08:36 |
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| tbr | Morpog_PC: they do so as private people, this does not add any legitimacy to the platform as a whole, it rather subverts it. | 08:36 |
| Morpog_PC | community devs like coderus are always private persons | 08:37 |
| DiosDelRayoOTG | i lost some parts Ehen i switched oder, is there a way to read what happened before I got connected on a channels? | 08:37 |
| Morpog_PC | DiosDelRayo, there are oublic logs | 08:38 |
| tbr | Morpog_PC: I will always warn about the platform due to its inherent risks. It is about making informed decisions. If someone trusts someone because they are a sailor or santa claus, then they should carefully install _exactly_ those apps. Making sweeping statements like you just did, legitimizing a platform by pars pro toto is outright irresponsible and dangerous. | 08:38 |
| Morpog_PC | DiosDelRayo, http://www.merproject.org/logs/%23sailfishos/latest.log.html | 08:39 |
| DiosDelRayoOTG | but inside irc is no Commando to get 5 min before, not. | 08:39 |
| Morpog_PC | well, I don't always see the world as black and white only. Seems we won't comply on that discussion ever :) | 08:40 |
| Morpog_PC | DiosDelRayo, not that I know of | 08:40 |
| coderus | Morpog_PC tbr we should really end this discussion | 08:40 |
| coderus | i agree: there are nothing new we can tell now | 08:41 |
| DiosDelRayoOTG | thanks a lot, got it :) | 08:41 |
| coderus | Morpog_PC: even mitakuuluu have small part of code not opensourced, but contains it in binaries on openrepos. | 08:42 |
| coderus | it can contain malwares :D | 08:42 |
| kimmoli | i have noticed few tweets containing dropbox link and "beta-test my game, download here" | 08:43 |
| Morpog_PC | :D | 08:43 |
| coderus | at the other side webOS TV Remote application contains hidden parts of code, hidden from QA to successfully pass it, and this parts contains coll stuff making application better, but these parts are not legal for Harbour :D | 08:43 |
| Morpog_PC | btw nice app there coderus tried it on my dads LG | 08:43 |
| Morpog_PC | mouse support could need a bit acceleration | 08:44 |
| Morpog_PC | At least on that 4K TV :D | 08:44 |
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| coderus | Morpog_PC: well, i don't want to add any settings, but maybe just some trigger enabling acceleration - yes :) | 08:46 |
| coderus | Morpog_PC: ping me when you will be in your dads home | 08:47 |
| coderus | i need to get some tv configs | 08:47 |
| coderus | probably i can just enable/disable acceleration based on this | 08:47 |
| DiosDelRayoOTG | Hm, short thought, what makes me trust companies Mord then "private" person? | 08:47 |
| coderus | Morpog_PC: detect high resolution and enable acceleration | 08:47 |
| DiosDelRayoOTG | s/Mord/more | 08:47 |
| coderus | DiosDelRayoOTG: because of QA procedure for apps | 08:48 |
| Morpog_PC | coderus, I am there atm | 08:48 |
| coderus | cool~ | 08:48 |
| coderus | ! | 08:48 |
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| tbr | DiosDelRayoOTG: I wouldn't even think of it in that perspective. In most cases it's some sort of conventions and process that can create trust | 08:49 |
| tbr | process adds overhead and "problems" for developers, so they hate it | 08:49 |
| tbr | from a developer perspective it's so much nicer if you just build a RPM, upload it and are done. | 08:50 |
| tbr | we had quite interesting discussions on that topic in Tampere at NewFactory a while ago | 08:51 |
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| DiosDelRayoOTG | i think it's a big missery nowadays that "we" trust Mord in laws, rules, organizations, companies, "experts" and "authorities" instead trusting in persons | 08:51 |
| coderus | Morpog_PC: are you on linux pc? | 08:53 |
| Morpog_PC | nope, but well I got a Jolla :D | 08:53 |
| DiosDelRayoOTG | i changing my life and thia process leads me also to Jolla, back to OSS. | 08:53 |
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| coderus | Morpog_PC: well, you need some ssdp sniffer | 08:53 |
| tbr | if you look closer at OSS, you'll find an immense emphasis on trust in conventions and processes, abstracting the trust relationship by many levels away from you | 08:54 |
| Morpog_PC | I could get some ubuntu in virtualbox | 08:54 |
| Morpog_PC | or fedora | 08:55 |
| coderus | Morpog_PC: pm | 08:55 |
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| DiosDelRayoOTG | i personally decided to trust only in people. and if there is no personal contact then you can only trust in what someone die and not what someone declare so open source is a essential part oft trust. | 08:57 |
| DiosDelRayoOTG | s/oft/of/ | 08:57 |
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| tbr | DiosDelRayoOTG: out of interest, how many authors of open source software that is on your computer do you personally know and trust? | 09:00 |
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| DiosDelRayoOTG | not one. but I can, if I want read the source. | 09:01 |
| tbr | my point being, you are vesting trust in a structured process and community, if you install a linux distribution. It is not a person, it is many layers of abstraction. | 09:01 |
| DiosDelRayoOTG | I used almost 10 years apple products. how many apples workers I know personally? also none. but can I verify their promises? no, I cant | 09:02 |
| tbr | that does not invalidate my argument, this is a tangential point | 09:03 |
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| DiosDelRayoOTG | I was writing before I read ;) but anyway, I used often a piece of code which was not in a distribution to get things work, I haven't even read the source code sometimes, but the existence of the sour… | 09:06 |
| DiosDelRayoOTG | …ce, which you compile or can compile gives in my opinion a trust, because people with bad intention normally try to hide there acts | 09:06 |
| DiosDelRayoOTG | so a process, organization, company or whatever don't give me more trust | 09:07 |
| DiosDelRayoOTG | if I want to get something bad on apples appstore I can succeed if I put enough effort inside. so why I should trust? | 09:09 |
| DiosDelRayoOTG | it's the same in real world, you think laws or rules change people and there acts? I don't think so. the only thing what it's changing is the power of people in the structure of the system. | 09:11 |
| DiosDelRayoOTG | I personally would never trust a policeman only because he has a badge, contrary if he needs a badge my trust is already gone. | 09:12 |
| DiosDelRayoOTG | I think this relying on processes and organizations make the thing so bad in Germany and the rest of the world. | 09:13 |
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| DiosDelRayoOTG | hm, looks like I said something wrong. now everybody is quit here :S I'm probably to extreme. | 09:24 |
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| r0kk3rz | https://sailfishos.org/sailfish-silica/qml-sailfishsilica-textfield.html | 10:17 |
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| r0kk3rz | presumably this qmltype works? | 10:17 |
| r0kk3rz | getting a could not resolve prototype in qtcreator | 10:17 |
| r0kk3rz | and doesnt seem to show anything in the app | 10:18 |
| Nicd- | qtcreator complaining is normal | 10:19 |
| r0kk3rz | wait it does work | 10:20 |
| r0kk3rz | just doesnt show the label like i expected it to | 10:20 |
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| r0kk3rz | ah, really needs the width property being set | 10:26 |
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| r0kk3rz | https://together.jolla.com/question/321/file-picker-needed/ | 10:54 |
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| r0kk3rz | presumably there is still no silica version of filepdialog | 10:54 |
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| meklu | the existing supposed file dialogs are too abstract and pander to the 'library' generation of file management :/ | 10:59 |
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| meklu | and also only pick up media files and documents | 11:00 |
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| Yaniel | added an idea to that question | 11:00 |
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| Yaniel | just a rought concept but please add your thoughts on it | 11:03 |
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| r0kk3rz | i want to pick a directory in a settings menu | 11:17 |
| r0kk3rz | i might settle for a text field where the user can type it in | 11:17 |
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| r0kk3rz | but would be nice if it had some autocomplete or GUI way of doing it | 11:17 |
| r0kk3rz | without having to roll my own | 11:18 |
| r0kk3rz | might write a small library | 11:18 |
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| r0kk3rz | ive already got a recursing menu GUI i could probably use a filesystemmodel for | 11:21 |
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| coderus | r0kk3rz: there is should be browser internal filepicker | 11:27 |
| coderus | you can reuse | 11:27 |
| meklu | the browser file picker is abstract | 11:29 |
| meklu | it lets you select media and documents | 11:29 |
| r0kk3rz | coderus: any code examples? | 11:29 |
| meklu | (the stuff from import Sailfish.Pickers 1.0) | 11:29 |
| r0kk3rz | ah | 11:30 |
| r0kk3rz | sounds useful | 11:30 |
| meklu | I had a similar sounding use case | 11:30 |
| meklu | wanted to do folder selection but opted for a text field (for now) | 11:31 |
| r0kk3rz | basically i want the user to be able to tell me where their music lives | 11:31 |
| r0kk3rz | so i can filter out everything else | 11:31 |
| meklu | doesn't seem like it's possible with the stuff in Sailfish.Pickers | 11:32 |
| r0kk3rz | lame | 11:32 |
| meklu | unless they secretly added something sensible in Uitukka | 11:32 |
| meklu | it gives you media listings | 11:32 |
| meklu | it's like the gallery app but selection-only | 11:32 |
| r0kk3rz | i'll take a look | 11:33 |
| r0kk3rz | might be useful, might not be | 11:33 |
| meklu | it'll take you straight to the specific media type if you specify that hint or use the right kind of component | 11:33 |
| meklu | can't quite recall the semantics | 11:33 |
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| coderus | r0kk3rz: i not used it | 11:34 |
| coderus | r0kk3rz: check browser qml | 11:34 |
| meklu | coderus: it gives you a list of media files | 11:35 |
| meklu | coderus: it's not a real file picker | 11:35 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah i dont really want a file picker as such, more a directory picker | 11:36 |
| r0kk3rz | maybe filter out some directories that wont be useful like /dev /etc | 11:36 |
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| urjaman | 11:40 | |
| urjaman | ~ | 11:40 |
| coderus | r0kk3rz: just create your own then with QDirIterator | 11:41 |
| r0kk3rz | i think thats the go | 11:42 |
| r0kk3rz | roll it together into a small library so people can reuse | 11:42 |
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| coderus | kimmoli: can you tell about funky led emitting toh software? | 12:27 |
| kimmoli | coderus: still heavily WIP | 12:28 |
| kimmoli | but i can tell, what you want to know? | 12:29 |
| coderus | kimmoli: like disco features based on gstreamer :) | 12:29 |
| coderus | kimmoli: and amilight backlight based on ambience :D | 12:30 |
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| kimmoli | hmm... wonder where the repo is... | 12:33 |
| kimmoli | ah it was on my own private server | 12:34 |
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| kimmoli | which is few commits behind. fu. | 12:37 |
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| urjaman | + ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | 14:21 |
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| coderus | kimmoli: also what status of eInkTOH? | 16:09 |
| kimmoli | coderus: waiting for time to look for better display | 16:10 |
| kimmoli | and reply from one supplier... reluctant to reply | 16:10 |
| coderus | kimmoli: cool | 16:14 |
| coderus | it will be better than toholed 100x | 16:14 |
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| ln- | "Error fatal: There is no update candidate for harbour-paint-0.5-1.armv7hl" | 16:14 |
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| kimmoli | coderus: no | 16:15 |
| kimmoli | maube 1.2x | 16:15 |
| kimmoli | ln-: ? | 16:15 |
| kimmoli | ln-: uninstall and re-install. i moved to mer-obs, and vendor in rpm changed | 16:16 |
| ln- | oh, a known problem then... ok, i'll reinstall. | 16:18 |
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| coderus | kimmoli: at least for power it should be 1000x better :D | 16:35 |
| kimmoli | not necessarily | 16:36 |
| kimmoli | update takes power | 16:36 |
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| muppis | Hello there. I tried to install SDK 1407 to Ubuntu 15.04, but it fails with TypeError: Result of expression 'version' [undefined] is not an object. Any workaround? | 16:42 |
| coderus | meklu: what fails? installation? sdk? applicatoin deployment? | 16:43 |
| muppis | SDK installation right after first Next -click. | 16:44 |
| muppis | Backtrace: <anonymous>()@://metadata//org.merproject/installscript.qs:107' | 16:44 |
| coderus | if you didn't get answer here quickly try mailing list | 16:45 |
| muppis | I'm not that hurry. :) | 16:45 |
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| muppis | coderus, any roadmap about Whatsapp? | 16:49 |
| meklu | coderus: bad tabbing? :D | 16:50 |
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| sandsmark | hum, my Dialog seems to get accepted immediately when I show it, without me clicking on it? | 17:49 |
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| sandsmark | is it a bad idea to have one dialog on top of another? | 18:00 |
| Nicd- | why does your confirmation need a confirmation? | 18:00 |
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| sandsmark | because I need two full-screen contents, and none of them should be permanent | 18:04 |
| sandsmark | first one to edit the picture, second one to select recipients | 18:04 |
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| sandsmark | otherwise I'm not sure how to close the first page when the dialog is accepted (trying to pop it when the accepted signal is triggered only tells me I can't pop during animations...) | 18:16 |
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| sandsmark | does org.nemomobile.thumbnailer work? for video files? | 19:07 |
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| ulvus | hi | 19:17 |
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| sandsmark | yo :D | 19:24 |
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| ulvus | doh, or are this not the simpsons channel ! rofl | 19:28 |
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| sandsmark | ? | 19:33 |
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| ulvus | homer simpsons says doh. | 19:36 |
| ulvus | Hi sandsmark | 19:37 |
| sandsmark | hi! | 19:37 |
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| nadley | hi all | 20:46 |
| ulvus | hi again nadley | 20:51 |
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| coderus | meklu: yeah... my tabs are wrong sometimes :D :D | 20:57 |
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| coderus | muppis: mid-end on January as i suppose. | 20:58 |
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| qt_junkie | Hi, does Jolla Store accept applications that sniff D-Bus? I was working on application that has to listen to incoming SMS messages, but now I'm wondering if it wil be accepted. | 21:19 |
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| anYc | Hi, can I somehow backup a RPM on the jolla that I want to replace with a patched RPM? | 21:27 |
| anYc | rpm --repackage doesn't work | 21:27 |
| tbr | why not pkcon download? | 21:28 |
| anYc | I'm not familiar with all these stuff yet. so I thought making a backup would be a safe choice. If pkcon will find the same package I'm fine with that, thank you | 21:31 |
| anYc | "this stuff" | 21:31 |
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| coderus | qt_junkie: listening dbus is permitted | 22:34 |
| coderus | anYc: once installed rpm you can't reconstruct it from device files | 22:35 |
| coderus | anYc: get it from repository if you (really?) need this | 22:35 |
| coderus | anYc: i mean why you need this if you can always reinstall it from repository anyway? | 22:35 |
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| anYc | I wasn't sure if I can simply download it again. I'm new to Mer/SFOS | 23:05 |
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| anYc | yay, got carddav sync working with owncloud without having to set rewrite rules on the server | 23:08 |
| coderus | its linux | 23:08 |
| coderus | all stuff in repos | 23:08 |
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| anYc | not every pkg in sfos :) | 23:09 |
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| anYc | well, doesn't matter now. thank you all, I will post a pull request tomorrow. | 23:11 |
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