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| Nicd- | yay, arch already has a fix for it :) | 05:11 |
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| coderus | I need two testers for Mitakuuluu: 1 who can quickly reproduce cpu bug, 2 who have no_routes error during registration. | 07:38 |
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| zGrr | moin :) | 08:00 |
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| Hartzi | coderus: well I have produced cpu bug 2 times in normal use during last two days and I ever had no_routes error :P | 08:04 |
| Merbot` | Mer bug 2 in Other "ldd does not work in build environment" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2 | 08:04 |
| DevBot` | Bug https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2 normal, Undecided, ---, carsten.munk, RESOLVED FIXED, ldd does not work in build environment | 08:04 |
| DevBot` | Bug 2: normal, Undecided, ---, carsten.munk, RESOLVED FIXED, ldd does not work in build environment | 08:04 |
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| coderus | stupid bots :D | 08:09 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | veskuh, hi | 08:38 |
| dr_gogeta86 | wanna replicate browser glitch | 08:39 |
| dr_gogeta86 | open two simple tab | 08:39 |
| dr_gogeta86 | on second tab open jolla website e begin to scroll ... animated divs become glitchy | 08:39 |
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| coderus | dr_gogeta86: on latest sailfish-browser build with gecko31? | 08:42 |
| dr_gogeta86 | stock | 08:42 |
| * inte installed the beta-browser from openrepos and that seems really buggy | 08:43 | |
| inte | has this glitch on every second page | 08:43 |
| inte | I also installed the cutnpaste addon for the experimantal browser | 08:43 |
| inte | but i couldnt figure out how to use it... | 08:43 |
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| coderus | inte: on openrepos browser is very out of date. it's even older than update8 one, you shouldn't use it :) | 08:45 |
| inte | oh ok :) | 08:45 |
| inte | hey, wasnt it you who put it up there? | 08:45 |
| coderus | inte: install patchmanager and apply installed patches :) | 08:45 |
| coderus | thats all you need. | 08:46 |
| inte | ah cool thanks | 08:46 |
| inte | so i just need to disable the repo and reinstall the browser right? | 08:46 |
| coderus | inte sure, but i have no time to rebuild browser now. | 08:46 |
| inte | ah | 08:46 |
| coderus | inte: yes, browser and all its components | 08:46 |
| inte | my imagination of "nightly" was rather something "daily" in the first point :) | 08:47 |
| inte | dont worry, just kidding :) | 08:47 |
| coderus | well, it shoould be so, but unfortunately i have no time to keep it up to date now | 08:47 |
| coderus | thats why i just created patches for now | 08:47 |
| inte | jep | 08:47 |
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| inte | dont worry your doing so much and great work anyways | 08:48 |
| inte | and the stock browser does its job quite well | 08:48 |
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| r0kk3rz | coderus: need to write a build script that watches for git commits | 09:06 |
| r0kk3rz | then builds and uploads to openrepos | 09:06 |
| r0kk3rz | then you'll have a proper nightly | 09:07 |
| stephg | webhook | 09:07 |
| r0kk3rz | surely something already exists | 09:09 |
| stephg | webhook! | 09:12 |
| stephg | :) | 09:12 |
| satmd | I guess this has been asked before | 09:17 |
| satmd | sailfishos (on the jolla) is vulnerable to the bash exploit | 09:17 |
| satmd | who shall I contact about this? | 09:17 |
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| r0kk3rz | satmd: they know about it | 09:18 |
| stephg | we think it is and we think they know | 09:18 |
| satmd | ok | 09:18 |
| Nicd- | 00:28:21 AardNaranek: will probably be fixed in u9 | 09:18 |
| Aard | and it seems the patches out so far don't fully patch it. http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2014/q3/685 | 09:22 |
| Aard | *sigh* | 09:22 |
| r0kk3rz | ah | 09:23 |
| r0kk3rz | that sucks | 09:23 |
| Nokius | tbr: Hi where is the sowatch which works with the Sailfish I know its still a WIP but iirc its bit usefull already can you give me a hind :) | 09:24 |
| tbr | Nokius: javispedro put it on OBS IIRC, check his home repo | 09:25 |
| Nokius | tbr: nice thanks | 09:26 |
| tbr | ssu ar salmeta https://... | 09:26 |
| tbr | It works already very well for me | 09:26 |
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| Nokius | tbr: will give it a try | 09:28 |
| Nokius | ;) | 09:28 |
| coderus | satmd: oh, vulnerability? do you have a working exploit for this? :D | 09:28 |
| tbr | coderus: all over the web | 09:29 |
| coderus | r0kk3rz: openrepos will have obs integration soon. | 09:29 |
| tbr | I expect this and the NSS bug, which is IMHO much more dangerous to be fixed in next weeks update | 09:29 |
| r0kk3rz | coderus: that sounds cool | 09:30 |
| coderus | r0kk3rz: featres are under testing, but i havd webhook bugs in obs and gave it up for a while :) | 09:30 |
| Nokius | tbr: mh | 09:36 |
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| Nokius | tbr: pkcon retuns a missing so …. so no luck for me … | 09:46 |
| tbr | Nokius: you need to install libgato from the same repository | 09:47 |
| tbr | Nokius: he might not have spelled out the dependency | 09:48 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: i'm starting to wonder if somebody out there is watching our release schedule and releasing big bad things when we're in last phases before releases.. | 09:49 |
| Stskeeps | it's happened a little too often now :) | 09:49 |
| SK_work | +1 | 09:49 |
| stephg | ha | 09:49 |
| stephg | apropos of nothing I've just come across this: https://github.com/ajalt/fuckitpy | 09:49 |
| stephg | particularly like the unit tests | 09:50 |
| Nokius | :) | 09:50 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: well, still in time and both should be fairly low impact. so feel lucky that it's just some retesting | 09:50 |
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| Stskeeps | nss -> rpm -> everything | 09:50 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:50 |
| Aard | we had nss for u8 already as well, I think. that's basically "commit, and go do something else for a day" | 09:53 |
| Stskeeps | http://xkcd.com/303/ comes to mind | 09:54 |
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| Aard | stephg: it sounds like something I could use to reduce my agressions when I have to work stuff written in python | 09:59 |
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| stephg | :) | 10:06 |
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| nh1402 | Rather a strange question, but I was wondering what your opinion would be on a software development team name being "Crapp Software", with aims to release apps under than name. I'm personally vehemently against such a group name as it's not professional, and could be shied away from releasing apps purely because of the group name | 10:28 |
| Wnt | :D | 10:29 |
| SK_work | Oo | 10:29 |
| Wnt | and what benefits would that kind of name bring? | 10:30 |
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| Stskeeps | nh1402: does anybody look at the authors of apps these days? | 10:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Name recognition. | 10:31 |
| zGrr | there is quite interesting russian page | 10:31 |
| zGrr | http://govnokod.ru/ | 10:31 |
| Nicd- | nh1402: hehehehe, I am currently developing an app for Sailfish called WeeCRApp | 10:31 |
| zGrr | govnokod stands for shitcode :) | 10:31 |
| Nicd- | but it probably won't make it through harbour QA with that name :P | 10:31 |
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| tbr | pfff, nothing measures up to me putting my toilet on twitter! ;) | 10:32 |
| cos- | QA team is finnish, so i believe they have quite thick skin on offensive stuff | 10:32 |
| Nicd- | yeah, but jolla customers might not | 10:33 |
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| Wnt | tbr: :D did you make it to the frontpage of slashdot? | 10:33 |
| nh1402 | Another thing is I'm working on an app myself, and once released, I would add it to the CV, and don't really know how it will swing with potential employers | 10:34 |
| entil | you learn something new every day... I thought "dermo" was russian for shit, but I guess it makes sense there'd be many words :D | 10:34 |
| entil | gowno is polish anyway, so that's close | 10:34 |
| BasilSemuonov | entil, that word can be used in variety of cases, and Govno Inc. is a registered company ;) | 10:37 |
| entil | hehe | 10:38 |
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| nh1402 | So you're saying it doesn't really matter | 10:40 |
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| Nicd- | https://gist.github.com/anonymous/929d622f3b36b00c0be1 | 10:46 |
| stephg | Nicd-: yup | 10:47 |
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| r0kk3rz | yeah well like the systemd fork called uselessd | 11:03 |
| zGrr | :) | 11:03 |
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| tadzik | :D | 11:25 |
| tbr | Wnt: yes, that was my sh*t on the /. frontpage, so to say. ;) | 11:39 |
| Wnt | haha | 11:46 |
| r0kk3rz | hah you're the toilet meter guy, internet is a small place sometimes | 11:47 |
| tbr | :> | 11:48 |
| tbr | r0kk3rz: and according to finnish yellow press my push notification service for sailfish will use the "toilet protocol" ;) | 11:49 |
| tbr | (I'm using MQTT in both) | 11:49 |
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| r0kk3rz | haha thats hilarous | 11:49 |
| tbr | I found that statement mildly funny and didn't object | 11:49 |
| tbr | their article over all was _very_ well done | 11:50 |
| r0kk3rz | technically correct too | 11:50 |
| r0kk3rz | which is the best kind of correct | 11:50 |
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| r0kk3rz | hmm its annoying to google 'Tracker' because its such a commonly used word for other things | 12:36 |
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| Nokius1 | tbr: wow so much new :) javispedro thx! | 13:34 |
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| Nokius1 | tbr: javispedro is there a new firmware needed on the meta? | 13:36 |
| tbr | Nokius1: running 1.5.3 is recommended | 13:36 |
| Nokius1 | tbr oh have 1.35 :P | 13:37 |
| tbr | update tiem! ;) | 13:37 |
| kimmoli | tbr: caution with those phrases | 13:37 |
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| tbr | :D | 13:38 |
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| tbr | yeah, I'm sure some people just had an heart attack | 13:38 |
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| kimmoli | 4sure | 13:38 |
| Nokius | ^^ | 13:38 |
| Nokius | ah new webpage ... | 13:39 |
| javispedro | Nokius, do you have MW prototype, or the final sales one? | 13:45 |
| Nokius | hope final ^^ | 13:47 |
| javispedro | prototype was the one sold via TexasInstruments store | 13:47 |
| Nokius | KK | 13:47 |
| javispedro | if you ahve final then yeah update to the latest one | 13:47 |
| Nokius | Kickstarter | 13:47 |
| javispedro | yep, that's final too | 13:48 |
| Nokius | I love this Windows tool | 13:49 |
| Nokius | :p | 13:49 |
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| javispedro | well it just sends some file over a serial port | 13:52 |
| javispedro | it would be trivial to port | 13:52 |
| Nokius | ah need a driver | 13:53 |
| javispedro | I don't think so | 13:54 |
| javispedro | just need a program that speaks the protocol | 13:55 |
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| Nokius | they told this on there support page (blue clip) | 13:57 |
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| Nokius | will try it later watch stays in Firmware update rady mode | 14:01 |
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| tbr | the "driver" is just a plain FTDI usb-serial driver | 14:09 |
| tbr | linux has that already | 14:09 |
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| coderus | talking about resoring mmcblk0p28 backup back to device | 14:29 |
| coderus | there is only way is using ext4/btrfs formatted sd card? | 14:29 |
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| satmd | coderus: like other people stated, the bash exploit is all over the web: CVE-2014-6271 | 15:10 |
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| inte` | fedora is bash | 15:51 |
| inte` | woups | 15:51 |
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| coderus | satmd: so, whaere is exploit for Sailfish? | 16:04 |
| satmd | none for sailfishos in general, but potentially for any application using bash and setting variables based on user/remote input | 16:06 |
| satmd | the exploit for other platforms is the same | 16:07 |
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| satmd | just the attack vector is different | 16:07 |
| inte` | i read that it could be even utilized remotly through a malicious dhcp-answer | 16:07 |
| inte` | could be bad if the jolla wifi could be attact through hotspots | 16:08 |
| inte` | is it patched on sf already? | 16:08 |
| satmd | that too | 16:08 |
| inte` | updated my fedora desktop last night | 16:09 |
| inte` | or, well today in the morning | 16:09 |
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| Morpog_PC__ | it will be fixed in update 9 | 16:15 |
| Morpog_PC__ | next week probably | 16:15 |
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| inte` | ok. is it actually prooven dhcpd could be an attack vector? Then, no public wifi until next week? | 16:23 |
| inte` | thanks anyways | 16:23 |
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| coderus | Mitakuuluu v0.8.9 released. CPU fastfix and more: https://github.com/CODeRUS/mitakuuluu2/releases/tag/v0.8.9 Check for updates https://openrepos.net/content/coderus/mitakuuluu | 16:43 |
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| TMavica | thanks | 16:47 |
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| merlin1991 | coderus: this probably silly, but i didn't find where i change my profile oic in mitäkuuluumitäkuuluu | 17:02 |
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| coderus | merlin1991: in account page of course | 17:08 |
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| merlin1991 | coderus: now for the hard question, where do i find it? | 17:11 |
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| coderus | merlin1991: you can find it where picture | 17:15 |
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| piggz | in a qtquick2applicationviewer application, how can i force landscape on sailfish? | 18:27 |
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| r0kk3rz | piggz: https://sailfishos.org/sailfish-silica/qml-sailfishsilica-applicationwindow.html#enabling-orientation-changes | 18:29 |
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| piggz | r0kk3rz: its not a silica app | 18:29 |
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| piggz | its a plain qquickview | 18:29 |
| r0kk3rz | its probably the same | 18:30 |
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| r0kk3rz | yeah it is | 18:36 |
| r0kk3rz | http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5/qquickview-members.html | 18:36 |
| r0kk3rz | contentOrientation | 18:36 |
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| louisdk | I've been playing with the SDK and found out that GNU tools like bash, tar, cp etc. is all in older versions licensed under GPL2 from about 2007. Why don't uses the newest upstream versions? Does Jolla have something against GPLv3? | 20:04 |
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| w00t | louisdk: mer (and jolla) don't accept anything with (L)GPLv3 licensing, yes | 20:11 |
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| louisdk | w00t, any explanation to that choice? | 20:14 |
| w00t | louisdk: the license is pretty widely considered inappropriate to those wanting to make devices | 20:15 |
| louisdk | w00t, do to GPLv3 strong focus against patents? | 20:16 |
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| keithzg | That's rather depressing. I guess now that everything has to be manufactured in China, we've lost the patent provision battle. | 20:23 |
| keithzg | But it's not like you're linking against bash, so why would GPLv3 not be acceptable for GNU utilities like that? | 20:24 |
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| wmarone | it's probably also the anti-tivoization aspects. It's generally bad for those who want to make devices that control their users. | 20:25 |
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| w00t | http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=118236278730043&w=4 is a good read on some related issues | 20:26 |
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| r0kk3rz | fancy licences are all well and good | 20:36 |
| keithzg | w00t: Sure (although I think some of the later interpretations of the GPLv3 have disproven or questioned some of Linus' old conclusions there, but anyways), but how does that apply to just shipping bash? | 20:36 |
| r0kk3rz | but has anyone heard of a case where GPL type licences have been protected? | 20:36 |
| r0kk3rz | i havent... | 20:36 |
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| keithzg | (Also, I think in Linus' post he's taking certain morals he has for granted, and thus not noticing they're enforced by the GPLv2. Again, though, somewhat besides the point of "...so why not still ship bash?") | 20:38 |
| keithzg | (Anyways, all these issues will be solved when we move over to copyleft-next ;) ) | 20:40 |
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| M4rtinK | well I kinda can understand it in Mer (vendors might want to use it in Tivoized devices) | 20:58 |
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| M4rtinK | and Jolla wants as many people using Mer as possible of course | 20:58 |
| M4rtinK | but I can't really come with any reason for not having newer version (not only of Bash) in Sailfish itself other than: | 20:59 |
| M4rtinK | "we don't want to QA two branches" | 20:59 |
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| keithzg | But eventually it'll get even worse, when the GPLv2 versions of the GNU utils stop getting patches. | 21:02 |
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| keithzg | Also, I find it weird that Apache is okay for manufacturers then because it also has patent grants, although I'm probably just forgetting some distinction between how it works in Apache and GPLv3 respectively, and I guess if manufacturers wanting to tivo-ize is the primary concern that'd be a tangental point anyways. | 21:03 |
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| M4rtinK | isn't Apache just a fancier BSD ? | 21:05 |
| M4rtinK | eq. you can just take it all and incorporate it into your proprietary garbage ? | 21:05 |
| keithzg | Yeah . . . and the fancier part is patent provisions! | 21:05 |
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| keithzg | http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#apache2 | 21:06 |
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| keithzg | And AOSP does indeed use ASL2.0, which has those provisions. | 21:07 |
| M4rtinK | and that's why we have all those unupdatable hacked together binary only ROMs :) | 21:08 |
| keithzg | In that sense, ironically, GPLv2 is more permissive. | 21:08 |
| keithzg | Yup, because Google wants a license that gives them legal shielding from being sued by contributors to Android, but doesn't really care too much if users can't actually modify their own devices :( | 21:09 |
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| keithzg | In fact, in https://source.android.com/source/licenses.html the ability to restrict users from modifying their devices is spun as a positive (and of course, it IS hard to get OEMs and carriers behind you otherwise). | 21:10 |
| keithzg | But of course personally, I read "to minimize the burden on these companies" and I don't exactly find sympathy for the companies! | 21:11 |
| M4rtinK | exactly :) | 21:11 |
| M4rtinK | one more reason a copyleft licensed mobile OS needs to steamroll the rest | 21:12 |
| M4rtinK | preferably Sailfish OS :) | 21:12 |
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| M4rtinK | thinking about it, Canonical with their CLA might be similarly problematic as Android | 21:13 |
| stephg | good evening guys | 21:13 |
| M4rtinK | not to such regard, but still | 21:13 |
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| M4rtinK | they could dual license the CLAed components to others under some restrictive license | 21:14 |
| keithzg | Yeah, I think the CLA largely exists for the exact same reason, so that OEMs and carriers can modify Ubuntu Phone without being at all public. | 21:14 |
| keithzg | It restricts Canonical to also releasing sources under the terms of whatever license the code is under, but they can pass the code to third parties under any license they feel like. | 21:15 |
| keithzg | Hence why the KDE contributors weren't feeling okay with adopting LightDM for the Wayland transition, and have gone over to SDDM instead. | 21:16 |
| Aard | problem with going the copyleft route is that a lot of stuff nowadays is gplv3. while I do appreciate its powers against asshole companies who just try to take the components and lock things down it is a problem for companies like us who have no interest in locking things down. stuff like having a secure bootloader, and secure boot, giving you the opportunity to hack that, but then lose the full trust chain is strictly speaking a gplv3 violation | 21:16 |
| keithzg | Aard: Welllll, that has been solved rather simply with shim bootloaders. | 21:18 |
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| Aard | keithzg: it's not that easy in the embedded space where you need to rely on odm bits | 21:19 |
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| keithzg | Aard: Fair enough, I'm sure it's way more complicated than I imagine when you're actually dealing with the bottom layer of it all. | 21:20 |
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| keithzg | The problem comes from the proliferation of component manufacturers who demand their portions of the software stack above remain closed, I suppose. | 21:24 |
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| Aard | yes, plus back then were several companies who closed down their boxes completely and basically went "well, here's the sourcecode, but unfortunately we don't allow you to flash custom firmware on the boxes, so go have fun" | 21:25 |
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| Aard | gplv3 solves that, but as side effect causes issues for companies like us who have no intention locking things down | 21:25 |
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| keithzg | In theory wouldn't providing users the ability to flash their own keys then make it GPLv3 compliant? | 21:27 |
| keithzg | Not saying that'd be easy or practical. | 21:27 |
| Aard | yes. not practical, unfortunately, unless you have enough money to convince odms of that idea | 21:27 |
| keithzg | Yeah. Sigh. | 21:28 |
| Aard | plus bootloader was just one example, there are other scenarios | 21:28 |
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| keithzg | And even Google doesn't seem able or perhaps isn't willing to do so for their flagship developer devices. | 21:28 |
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| keithzg | I guess if you're Qualcomm, you get to just dictate the terms. | 21:30 |
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| M4rtinK | well, the 64 bit arm server spec requires UEFI & secureboot that it off by default & where you can import your own keys | 21:30 |
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| M4rtinK | would be interesting to see a compliant mobile device or similar mobile spec version :) | 21:30 |
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| javispedro | hm? | 21:31 |
| * javispedro quickly goes read backlog | 21:31 | |
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| Aard | let's say we have a contract with some company for some service. this company has api-keys, and demands we protect those. you can't get api-keys unless you pay them a lot of money. we do a plugin for that service in a chain where there's a gplv3 component. we release all sources. if you rebuild it and put that plugin on the device you lose that service due to lack of api-key. how would you solve that? | 21:31 |
| javispedro | is there a problem to solve? | 21:32 |
| M4rtinK | well, you would not have their service and that's it | 21:32 |
| keithzg | Aard, are you sure that losing the service would be a GPL violation? As long as the software itself is functional and it's an external service that's refusing to respond I'm not sure that's true. | 21:32 |
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| Aard | keithzg: gplv3 specifies that you must be able to recompile the software, and put it onto the device without losing functionality | 21:33 |
| M4rtinK | don't see why this should relate to license compliance at all | 21:33 |
| Aard | losing the service would be losing functionality | 21:33 |
| M4rtinK | I think that is a rather broad interpretation | 21:33 |
| javispedro | what needs to continue working is the program | 21:34 |
| keithzg | Yeah, there are definitely Twitter clients out there under the GPLv3 that would have that exact same issue. | 21:34 |
| stephg | M4rtinK: if you're in Jolla's position you want to be the test case? | 21:34 |
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| javispedro | they're the test case of a shitton of things already | 21:35 |
| javispedro | things I'd much more worried about | 21:35 |
| Aard | M4rtinK: the problem is, the license text can be interpreted that way (we went though that more than once with lawyers). if it will be interpreted like this when you're getting sued is a different matter | 21:35 |
| javispedro | libhybris and generally ripping off android internals comes to mind | 21:35 |
| stephg | javispedro: legal ones? with scary land-sharks (with money) on the other side? | 21:35 |
| M4rtinK | javispedro: exactly | 21:35 |
| Aard | thing is, it is risky, and as basically every odm worries about gplv3 because of that you lose potential partners if you still use gplv3 (which I assume is one reason why it took so long for canonical to find an odm) | 21:36 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, just look at gitorious | 21:36 |
| stephg | (not trying to be provocative, merely curious) | 21:36 |
| M4rtinK | theyr codebase is AGPLv3 | 21:36 |
| w00t | I don't think the people in this channel is necessarily the ones you need to convince | 21:36 |
| keithzg | The number of GPL lawsuits isn't exactly many (and generally is restricted to those who have standing to sue, which generally ends up meaning those who hold copyright on the code). I honestly doubt Bradley Kuhn would take legal action against a company trying to ship a GPLv3 device! | 21:36 |
| M4rtinK | and nobody wants them to release their config files, their user database, etc. | 21:36 |
| javispedro | stephg: they're shipping the FAT code. I ponder were the MS sharks are swimming around. | 21:36 |
| w00t | the fact is that this is just how the companies in this space are thinking, and operating now | 21:36 |
| M4rtinK | and I would need that to have the same functionality as Gitorious.org ! | 21:36 |
| w00t | and generally, that is that the moment "GPLv3" gets mentioned, they start running away very fast | 21:36 |
| * javispedro sighs | 21:37 | |
| javispedro | you could very well be saying this argument for the "GPL" in general | 21:37 |
| stephg | FAT is a special case IMO, anything else? | 21:37 |
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| w00t | javispedro: no, the success of the linux kernel is evidence that that is not happening | 21:37 |
| w00t | .. hmph | 21:37 |
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| w00t | javispedro: no, the success of the linux kernel is evidence that that is not happening | 21:37 |
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| Aard | javispedro: we're not shipping exfat because of licensing issues ;) | 21:38 |
| stephg | :) | 21:38 |
| * javispedro notes it's sadly not coincidental the one project with the most lenient gpl2 interpretation is the one having "success" | 21:38 | |
| M4rtinK | actually, you could just buy a license for it like for the codecs and other blobs, right ? :) | 21:39 |
| w00t | javispedro: you can believe I'm wrong if that makes you happier, I'm just speaking from experience | 21:39 |
| javispedro | obviously I believe you're wrong | 21:39 |
| w00t | (ironically, even today I had another call where the discussion of "GPLv3 caused our partners to get scared" came up in the conversation) | 21:39 |
| Aard | M4rtinK: there are a lot of bits you're using in a phone where you could have licenses for ;) | 21:39 |
| javispedro | the same way I believe the "lawyers who get scared when GPL is mentioned" from less than 2-3 years ago are wrong | 21:40 |
| w00t | javispedro: I'm not saying if it's right or wrong, I'm saying that it happens | 21:40 |
| keithzg | w00t: I don't doubt that you have companies running away as soon as the GPLv3 is mentioned; we just doubt they're scared for rational reasons! | 21:40 |
| Aard | keithzg: I agree that >90% of the worries about gplv3 are wrong. there are a few corner cases where it can bite 'friendly' users, though | 21:41 |
| javispedro | there's lots and lots of FUD the same way they were lots of FUD before the Google's slight GPL approximation | 21:41 |
| w00t | I think linus' opinions about GPLv3 are really the best (and least hyperbolic) I've heard | 21:41 |
| M4rtinK | and it just boils down that the current licensing mess turns most current mobile devices quite to paperweights | 21:41 |
| javispedro | and YES I would expect Jolla to be one of the companies that would be first to dispel them | 21:42 |
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| javispedro | I'm obviously not the CEO nor even a stockholder and thus can't complain. | 21:42 |
| M4rtinK | perfectly fine nice devices stuck to half broken firmware without an option to update, that's the root issue | 21:42 |
| M4rtinK | and GPLv3 is one of the things that could improve the situation | 21:43 |
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| w00t | M4rtinK: and I'd say that the solution to that is not forcing it through licensing, but free market | 21:43 |
| keithzg | Aard: That's probably true, although I suspect even most of the remaining worries are, in practice, not worth worrying about. None of the handful of folks who go after GPL violations aren't going to waste their time on a small company that's trying as hard as possible as Jolla is, for example. | 21:43 |
| Aard | javispedro: we've not given up on eventually starting to use gplv3 (plus we use gplv3 in components which are not flashed on the device, but later loaded from store) | 21:43 |
| w00t | but that same opinion is why I also don't tend to license my code under GPLv3 | 21:43 |
| keithzg | That's all fair enough. And entirely fair for Jolla to be timid about stepping into tricky waters. | 21:44 |
| M4rtinK | w00t: same thing :) | 21:44 |
| * keithzg just wishes, is all :) | 21:44 | |
| javispedro | w00t: sadly that seems the GPL vs BSD argument again, and "free market" has shown its preference quite often | 21:45 |
| w00t | javispedro: and I'm OK with that | 21:45 |
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| Aard | I was quite pro gplv3 before I spent two years building a device where I directly had to deal with licensing issues. now my preference is gplv2 | 21:45 |
| keithzg | w00t: I can't say I am. The free market has, time and time again, shown itself to be mostly rule by fear and short-term self-interest. | 21:46 |
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| * bjorn will just get some sleep. | 21:47 | |
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| keithzg | M4rtinK: Are you sure actually about the ARM 64-bit server spec requiring the ability to import you own keys? | 21:51 |
| keithzg | http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.den0044a/Server_Base_Boot_Requirements.pdf just says "If Secure Boot is implemented, it must conform to the UEFI 2.4B specification for Secure Boot. There are no additional requirements for Secure Boot." | 21:51 |
| M4rtinK | keithzg: I'm pretty sure that they mentioned it needs to be off by default | 21:52 |
| M4rtinK | indeed I'm a bit less sure about the keys now | 21:52 |
| M4rtinK | it was mentioned in one of the USEFI/Secure boot talk on Flock | 21:53 |
| M4rtinK | *talks | 21:53 |
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| M4rtinK | I think it might have been the one by Adam Williamson | 21:56 |
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| javispedro | there: https://together.jolla.com/question/56897/embrace-gplv3/ | 21:57 |
| M4rtinK | voted, proceeding to spread on social media :) | 21:59 |
| javispedro | and don't blame me when I put that link on twitter, it's all your fault for adding a gigantic "share on twitter" button =) | 21:59 |
| keithzg | Heh. | 21:59 |
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| keithzg | I'm actually pretty convinced by Aard that at the present day, it's not really practical for the entire device stack to be GPLv3. But I've voted anyways, since it definitely is worth noting that many folks use and olve SailfishOS because of a desire to see a truly free alternative in the mobile space, and any work that Jolla can do towards that is sincerely appreciated. | 22:01 |
| javispedro | I was listening to stevie's "superstition" during the above discussion -- quite appropriate :) | 22:01 |
| javispedro | keithzg: obviously not, if you make the entire stack GPLv3 _then_ you may have the "what about twitter keys" problem above | 22:02 |
| javispedro | but you can make that single binary "GPLv3 + jolla's we-do-what-we-must-because-we-can exception" | 22:02 |
| javispedro | since you'd own the copyright :P | 22:02 |
| keithzg | Heh. | 22:02 |
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| M4rtinK | retweets welcome: https://twitter.com/M4rtinK/status/515260419578269696 | 22:04 |
| M4rtinK | I really think that key argument is bullshit | 22:05 |
| keithzg | Still not sure about the Twitter app key issue; there are, after all, a number of GPLv3 clients. | 22:05 |
| M4rtinK | I consider that to be stuff that goes to configuration files and that's it | 22:05 |
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| stephg | M4rtinK no retweet but a new follower :) | 22:07 |
| javispedro | yeah I don't get the twitter argument either | 22:08 |
| javispedro | among other things you might as well just make it propietary | 22:08 |
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| javispedro | the "mere aggregation" rule (which has been proven many times) means that even if the rest of the OS is GPLv3 the twitter client is not forced to be GPLv3 | 22:09 |
| M4rtinK | stephg: thanks :) | 22:09 |
| keithzg | I admit that it's the kind of thing that a lawyer unfamiliar with the GPL and/or the FOSS community might bring up as a theory (lawyers being a fearful bunch, prone to panic and extreme conservativism), but I don't think it actually jives under any reasonable interpretation. | 22:09 |
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| stephg | oh I'm going potty | 22:26 |
| stephg | bugfix pls; impossible to take picture of jolla & n4 with lock screens in the dark with a real camera due to the display sleeping raaaaaah | 22:27 |
| stephg | (first world problems) | 22:27 |
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