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| sabgenton | if I want to use sailfish for commad line utills is there something like apt-get? | 04:08 |
|---|---|---|
| sabgenton | I'm assuming ubuntu has more commandline tools than sails fish having so many debian packages am I wrong? | 04:09 |
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| zoldyck | sabgenton: Sailfish uses .rpm and the utility pkcon | 05:47 |
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| tbr | VDVsx: let me guess, for IDLE during standby you need to work a iphb wakeup into the loop?. was quite easy with the mqtt code I hacked on, but wasn't exactly perfect, more like a hack. | 07:52 |
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| VDVsx | tbr, no but similar, via our keepalive apis, quite easy to do, atm working in other area so unfortunately no time to do that | 10:06 |
| tbr | VDVsx: sure, just curious :) | 10:06 |
| VDVsx | tbr, this one: https://github.com/nemomobile/nemo-keepalive | 10:08 |
| tbr | tnx | 10:08 |
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| VDVsx | it uses ipbh plus the android wake locks stuff | 10:08 |
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| tbr | VDVsx: yeah, guessed that by the description, cool stuff. Useful for all use cases where it's not just enough to be woken up by iphb to send a keepalive on a connection, but you need the device to be really awake and do further processing and faster than glacial speed | 10:14 |
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| ilpianista | hi all, so I got my Jolla today! :-) | 12:20 |
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| ilpianista | but it seems it doesn't support 802.1x wifi...so I'm trying to setup it following this https://together.jolla.com/question/315/wpa-8021x-enterprise-others-gui-wifi-support-needed-workaround/ | 12:21 |
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| ilpianista | without any result...where do I start? | 12:21 |
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| tbr | by looking at the logs | 12:24 |
| ilpianista | tbr: journalctl -u connman says nothing | 12:25 |
| ilpianista | also wpa_supplicant.log says nothing | 12:25 |
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| ilpianista | tbr: solved and I feel dumb | 12:28 |
| ilpianista | there was a typo in the SSID | 12:28 |
| tbr | :) | 12:29 |
| tbr | it's often those little things | 12:29 |
| ilpianista | tbr: uhm, the store doesn't work but Internet does, any idea? | 12:32 |
| ilpianista | works now... | 12:34 |
| tbr | :) | 12:35 |
| javispedro | that's the connman ready vs online thing that was mentioned in t.j.c I guess | 12:35 |
| tbr | might have been a cached state or such | 12:35 |
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| javispedro | https://together.jolla.com/question/54944/bug-some-applications-require-online-network-state-before-working/ | 12:36 |
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| javispedro | I've found it a few times that the store would refuse to work but the browser did | 12:36 |
| tbr | oh, the infamous online state | 12:37 |
| tbr | nobody seems to use that on the desktop anymore | 12:37 |
| tbr | firefox did for a while, but there were so many issues that they dropped it | 12:38 |
| javispedro | meh, soon systemd-network will provide a connectivity state and then everyone'll do it again | 12:40 |
| javispedro | in the meantime vote for that because it is annoying :) | 12:41 |
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| tbr | javispedro: btw: I'm taking bets how long until someone comes up with a wireless charging pad that fits on your wrist and extends android watch battery life to something usable. | 12:51 |
| javispedro | what I dislike most re battery life is why isn't the metawatch/pebble/$otherReflectiveLCDWatch battery life more spectacular | 12:53 |
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| javispedro | the gear2 is currently lasting me ~4days, with light use (it is connected to my jolla but I don't know how to forward notifications to it yet, so just syncing time) | 12:53 |
| javispedro | the mw would last me ~7 or so days | 12:54 |
| javispedro | yes, the mw has always-on LCD... but... well | 12:54 |
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| javispedro | I expected more difference. | 12:54 |
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| tbr | javispedro: it's a while since the meetup with the metawatch guys, but in the default case it seems the micro controller is the main thing | 12:55 |
| javispedro | obviously the 12h from the moto360 are ridiculous, probably because they went with a significantly smaller battery plus a generation-old omap3 | 12:55 |
| javispedro | (more than a generation old by now :( ) | 12:55 |
| Stskeeps | prolly a surplus of omap3s | 12:55 |
| javispedro | tbr, one would think a msp430 with .. 16Mhz? would provide significant savings compared to a ... DualCore 1Ghz Qualcomm. | 12:56 |
| javispedro | tbr, so I suspect the problem is still bluetooth, basically. | 12:57 |
| tbr | it gets far worse if you do additional things like vibra, light or use the accelerometer | 12:57 |
| tbr | the accelerometer has several modes though. if you program it for a pattern and have it send an interrupt, then it's moderate. if you keep reading a raw data stream then it blows super fast | 12:57 |
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| javispedro | tbr, I remember they switched accelerometer models in the gen2 metawatch, which contributed to the ~3days increase | 12:59 |
| javispedro | despite the fact I don't think you could even turn the accelerometer on in the gen1 ones... | 12:59 |
| tbr | yes, bt is also quite taxing | 12:59 |
| * kimmoli likes my RW watch, no batteries included. | 12:59 | |
| tbr | I'd be interested to see how much going from SPP to GATT gets you though | 13:00 |
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| javispedro | tbr, I suspect we won't see much difference in mw | 13:02 |
| * tbr detex, kimmoli is totally oldsk00l | 13:02 | |
| javispedro | tbr: btw I started the sailfish' sowatch https://gitorious.org/javispedro-jolla-misc/salmeta/ | 13:04 |
| javispedro | it'll be a rewrite because I'll use the gen2 UI (the one with the multiple builtin watchfaces and 4x4 grid of widgets | 13:04 |
| javispedro | and GATT | 13:04 |
| javispedro | this reminds me... | 13:05 |
| tbr | javispedro: \o/ | 13:05 |
| javispedro | Jonni, I assume your answer in https://together.jolla.com/question/37710/dbus-monitor-shows-exchange-mail-password-in-clear-text/ means a future release is probably going to block session dbus eavesdropping? | 13:06 |
| * tbr is hoping for something less radical, ACLs or such | 13:08 | |
| pp_ | lots of other stuff goes there too | 13:08 |
| tbr | as listening for dbus events is very useful | 13:08 |
| javispedro | meh, I know how large the "security" banhammer is.. | 13:09 |
| pp_ | "any app" probably shouldn't have access to the dbus | 13:11 |
| pp_ | at least if it's used for the things it is now :-) | 13:12 |
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| Jonni | javispedro: answer means that we are aware of the problem, and fix might come on some unforseen future release :) | 13:14 |
| javispedro | <girly voice> maybe a bit more detail pleaaase ;) | 13:16 |
| tbr | Jonni: yes, but if an app listens e.g. for notification events on dbus, like salmeta or the pebble app, there might be a problem | 13:16 |
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| javispedro | I'm not sure if you can "tear down" holes via installing /etc/* files if default is to lock eavesdropping | 13:17 |
| javispedro | because d-bus has no way of identifying clients... | 13:18 |
| javispedro | (not sure if UID would work in session d-bus) | 13:18 |
| javispedro | so blocking eavesdropping could be.. problematic. | 13:18 |
| coderus | #DoNotDisableDBusSignals! | 13:18 |
| coderus | #SaveDBusSignals! | 13:18 |
| tbr | #outcry #outrage #pitchforks #endoftheworld ;) | 13:18 |
| javispedro | coderus, signals would always work though :) | 13:19 |
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| javispedro | obviously the proper solution is to add back mnotificationsink to lipstick | 13:21 |
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| tbr | mind you, I'm not a dbus expert, but isn't there something that could be used for that in the desktop world already? something that would handle ACLs and such | 13:22 |
| pp_ | basically it's an af_unix socket that you either have access to, or you don't, right? | 13:23 |
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| pp_ | and that has equivalents of naked celebrity pics transmitted over it, or it doesn't | 13:23 |
| javispedro | the problem is that currently I think the only ACL that is applied to session d-bus is: is your $USER nemo? period | 13:23 |
| javispedro | and in fact without labels, etc. it would be hard to implement ACLs. | 13:24 |
| javispedro | *any other type of ACL | 13:24 |
| javispedro | so blocking all eavesdropping sounds like the only viable option. | 13:25 |
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| javispedro | well obviously you could start having multiple buses, etc. but that sounds too complicated | 13:25 |
| pp_ | apps could just poke around memory of other pids running as same user tho, getting the same result | 13:25 |
| tbr | pp_: that you'd probably cover by introducing separation on process level | 13:27 |
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| javispedro | I'm reading you can actually make ACLs based on gid too http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-daemon.1.html | 13:27 |
| javispedro | that opens the door to a "privileged" type solution | 13:28 |
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| pp_ | pid per app, yes | 13:29 |
| pp_ | err, uid | 13:29 |
| javispedro | sailfish already has nemo:nemo and nemo:privileged apps | 13:29 |
| pp_ | in the end you'll reinvent selinux/whatnot badly, and you didn't want selinux in the first place | 13:30 |
| Sidde | or just use selinux | 13:31 |
| javispedro | ah, the good old security in sailfish discussion. | 13:31 |
| Sidde | selinux is the future of the linux platform | 13:31 |
| * SpeedEvil liked Aegis. | 13:31 | |
| SpeedEvil | (in principle, if admined right) | 13:31 |
| javispedro | I guess Smack comes from the Aegis folks because many concepts seem similar | 13:32 |
| Sidde | it would not be that hard to make a selinux policy to every application | 13:32 |
| javispedro | I miss wildcards in smack though | 13:32 |
| javispedro | ie you can't say "friggin_real_root" user has * permissions over * objects | 13:32 |
| SpeedEvil | (admined right would require of course the possibility of user-added stores with as much priviledge as the original) | 13:32 |
| SpeedEvil | err - owner added | 13:33 |
| pp_ | chatted to one of the aegis guys a while ago, he was proud except design flaw of relying on pathnames :-) | 13:33 |
| tbr | javispedro: SMACK comes from the MSSF people, who were trying to do it right and learning from the aegis screwups | 13:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Aegis screwups were mostly policy. | 13:35 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: I suspect "their" definition of screwups is opposite to ours :) | 13:35 |
| SpeedEvil | likely | 13:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Something like aegis was required for a mass market phone platform. The n9 as a sole model not promoted in all areas fell short of that ambition | 13:36 |
| * SpeedEvil looks up SmaCK | 13:37 | |
| javispedro | https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/security/Smack.txt | 13:38 |
| javispedro | but the big idea is generally that you apply a security label to each file | 13:39 |
| javispedro | if file is executable the label is applied to that process when you exec() that file | 13:39 |
| javispedro | and then you have a rules file with | 13:39 |
| javispedro | oops, phone call :) | 13:41 |
| SpeedEvil | interesting | 13:42 |
| javispedro | "source_label operations_that_are_allowed destination_label" | 13:42 |
| javispedro | so e.g. "dialer read+write modem" | 13:42 |
| javispedro | which obviously means that anything running under the dialer label can both read and write to any file under the modem label | 13:43 |
| javispedro | and like aegis some programs (d-bus daemon for example) are expected to help enforce the rules | 13:44 |
| javispedro | at the end I see selinux as "I have this complex interrelated platform and I want to close all those pesky holes" while I see smack as "I have these few general ideas let's enforce them" | 13:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | So SMACK rulesets will generally be simpelr and rather easier to write | 13:48 |
| javispedro | seemingly so | 13:49 |
| javispedro | but you'll also have less granularity | 13:49 |
| SpeedEvil | indeed - file based access doesn't quite cut it in many cases. | 13:49 |
| javispedro | it's not entirely file access, because IPC servers are expected to enforce the rules too | 13:50 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 13:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Of course - android seems to be going the other way | 13:50 |
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| javispedro | Possibly because Android already has a basic sandbox | 13:50 |
| SpeedEvil | munging permissions together into massive heaps of them | 13:50 |
| javispedro | so they are at the "let's close the remaining small leaks" stage | 13:50 |
| javispedro | which is what selinux excels at (IMHO) finetuning daemon permissions, etc. | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | http://xkcd.com/1200/ | 13:51 |
| javispedro | ah | 13:51 |
| javispedro | you mean the new google play "summarized" permissions :) | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Is basically waht I was referring to - it doesn't help if the OS is secure, if the application can leak your phone number, ... | 13:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | And that 5/6 of the calculator apps on play have the permissions they need to scan your network at night and act as a proxy server back to china | 13:52 |
| javispedro | well google doesn't really care about privacy | 13:53 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 13:53 |
| javispedro | so you get those weekly blog reports where someone has decided to start wireshark and noticed his phone sending all hi spersonal info 50 times per hour to random servers in china | 13:53 |
| javispedro | s/in china// | 13:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Google has 'fixed' - for some value of fixed - apps that can be installed and do fundamental things to the phone that can't be undone by uninstalling them | 13:54 |
| javispedro | basically most "sandboxes" in most OSes are designed to protect the operating system vendor -- not the user. | 13:54 |
| javispedro | (this famously includes Aegis :) ) | 13:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Quite. | 13:55 |
| javispedro | a glaring example for me is the one in Windows 8 | 13:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Aegis/smack/... with somewhat more permissions, and user-stores could in principle be good for the user too. | 13:55 |
| javispedro | to install an application in the sandboxed environment you need to have a MS developer certificate ($99) | 13:56 |
| javispedro | to install an application in the non-sandboxed environment all you need is to accept ONE "are you sure?" prompt | 13:56 |
| javispedro | then the application can do everything it wants. | 13:56 |
| javispedro | so the entire purpose of the sandbox is to basically prevent software privacy, not protect you against random executables | 13:57 |
| javispedro | *piracy | 13:57 |
| javispedro | software piracy (argh) | 13:57 |
| javispedro | so yeah, something great _could_ be made | 13:58 |
| javispedro | I just wish it doesn't impede in my usual "i just ssh on this thing and run stuff" workflow | 13:58 |
| SpeedEvil | then there is the fun mac sandbox. | 13:58 |
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| SpeedEvil | 'filesystem? naah - you don't want that. | 13:58 |
| javispedro | similarly to the win8 example, it is ridiculously hard to piracy mac sandbox programs ('recipes', etc.) | 14:00 |
| javispedro | and thus the sandbox's purpose, instead of allowing one to run untrusted binaries safely, becomes a way for apple to ensure they are the only distribution channel. | 14:02 |
| tbr | yes, it was a layer-8 problem mostly | 14:02 |
| tbr | big bang introduction very late in the process, etc | 14:02 |
| tbr | or rather layer-9 (damagement) | 14:02 |
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| javispedro | I assume layer8 = PEBKAC? :) | 14:03 |
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| javispedro | btw, how is gdbserver installed on sailfish? whenever you enable developer mode? | 14:13 |
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| javispedro | I realized at some point gdbserver was missing on mine and thus QtC debugging would fail (with a cryptic error ofc) | 14:13 |
| javispedro | despite the fact I've been sshing and gdbing ever since I got it (and thus dev mode enabled) | 14:14 |
| javispedro | (gdb and gdbserver are separate packages) | 14:14 |
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| coderus | guys, your channel is awesome, i lost two days on ubuntu touch sdk channel with simple questions. nobody wants to answer me or answering "i dont know" "i dont using this" "this is working for me" :D | 14:18 |
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| tbr | quality stuff :) | 14:18 |
| coderus | much enthusiasts | 14:18 |
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| m4g0g | hi | 14:25 |
| m4g0g | Jolla has preinstalled Google plugin. Is it possible to add image share possibility to it (like in facebook)? | 14:26 |
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| tbr | m4g0g: the social plugins are now open source, so it is possible. If someone is going to step up and do it, is written on another page. | 14:57 |
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| m4g0g | I have experience with developing picasa client and want to add this to jolla google integration | 15:01 |
| coderus | how do you want to share something with google? | 15:04 |
| coderus | google drive or what? | 15:04 |
| m4g0g | picasa for images | 15:04 |
| gexc | is this a bug? -> https://together.jolla.com/question/52868/is-onorientationlockchanged-ever-executed/ | 15:05 |
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| coderus | m4g0g: is it using same credentials as google? | 15:06 |
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| m4g0g | In my application I use the same for drive and picasa, because there is no separete service Picasa in google api console | 15:09 |
| coderus | gexc: no it's not a bog of course | 15:09 |
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| gexc | a feature then :P | 15:09 |
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| gexc | the brighness or volume slider do change themselves if the values are changed elsewhere | 15:10 |
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| coderus | answered in TJC BTW | 15:16 |
| gexc | LOL | 15:17 |
| gexc | just launch another in the terminal | 15:18 |
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| coderus | WHY? | 15:18 |
| coderus | exposing system settings to other views? | 15:19 |
| coderus | learn to use your hacks properly | 15:19 |
| coderus | dont blame system | 15:19 |
| gexc | hmm, I made a plugin for quick orientation lock https://openrepos.net/content/gexc/orientation-control-plugin | 15:20 |
| gexc | and found that the slide does not update itself if the lock is changed in settings | 15:20 |
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| gexc | the example of two instance of settings app is to avoid the 'somthing wrong with your app' situation | 15:22 |
| gexc | btw, brighness and volume work fine with two instance of settings | 15:23 |
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| gexc | thought it should work since there is 'onOrientationLockChanged' LOL | 15:24 |
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| coderus | gexc: do you know what is backend for DisplaySettings? It's QSettings. Any questions why onSomethingChanged not working with QSettings? | 15:31 |
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| coderus | i hate so much "something wrong with your app" situation, when users trying to do anything extraordinary. | 15:32 |
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| gexc | hmm | 15:32 |
| m4g0g_ | ))) | 15:32 |
| gexc | not quite understand, I'm a n00b LOL | 15:33 |
| coderus | QSettings is ini files | 15:34 |
| coderus | ini tiles doesnt care if you opened it manually and changed | 15:34 |
| coderus | files* | 15:34 |
| gexc | is onOrientationLockChanged different with onBrightnessChanged? | 15:35 |
| gexc | why is one executed while the other is not | 15:35 |
| coderus | sure | 15:36 |
| gexc | if I replace 'onOrientationLockChanged' with 'onBrightnessChanged' in my qml file, the slide does update itself to show the current orientation lock after a brightness change | 15:37 |
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| coderus | brightness is come from sysfs | 15:39 |
| coderus | /system/osso/dsm/display/display_brightness | 15:40 |
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| coderus | i can't understand you these things if your mind is stick to QML with a super glue | 15:40 |
| coderus | oh | 15:40 |
| coderus | i mean i can't explain you | 15:40 |
| gexc | maybe LOL | 15:41 |
| * gexc is n00b | 15:41 | |
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| gexc | where can I find the /system/osso/dsm/display/display_brightness thing | 15:43 |
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| coderus | RTFM: https://github.com/nemomobile/nemo-qml-plugin-systemsettings/blob/master/src/displaysettings.cpp | 15:48 |
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| gexc | alright | 15:48 |
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| gexc | so orientationLockChanged() is not emitted at all | 16:00 |
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| coderus | gexc: lol :D | 16:05 |
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| coderus | Mitakuuluu v0.8.7 released with good changelog: https://github.com/CODeRUS/mitakuuluu2/releases/tag/v0.8.7 check for updates! https://openrepos.net/content/coderus/mitakuuluu | 19:37 |
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| FloR707 | Hi, am I the only one who cannot sign into Harbour? | 20:07 |
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| Tumeez | How I can transfers all my information (People numbers, messages etc) Jolla to OnePlus One? | 20:18 |
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| FloR707 | How can I open a link from within my app? I tried an regular html link but the browser is not reacting. | 20:55 |
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| r0kk3rz | dbus send url to browser | 21:25 |
| FloR707 | Hmm I am really surprised that there is no build in QML function for that. For the dbus thing I need another c++ class… | 21:32 |
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| FloR707 | That is nothing for tonight. CU | 21:33 |
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| r0kk3rz | there is actually | 21:46 |
| r0kk3rz | seems pretty easy to use as well | 21:46 |
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| coderus | Qt.openUrlExternallu("http://google.ru") | 22:02 |
| coderus | Qt.openUrlExternally ofc. | 22:02 |
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