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| coderus | m4g0g: did you resolved your context menu problem? | 01:55 |
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| m4g0g | coderus: no. I think context menu doesn't change size of Column | 03:47 |
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| coderus | hate peoples asking questions and then leaving IRC | 05:03 |
| coderus | :D | 05:03 |
| Sidde | coderus: but why don't you have an alarm bell at home that wakes you up when someone highlights you. I thought everyone had that... | 05:07 |
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| coderus | hehe | 05:48 |
| coderus | i'm using irssi on my remote vserver | 05:48 |
| coderus | i can't make notifications from it :) | 05:48 |
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| coderus | maybe i'll do email notifications someday :) | 05:49 |
| m4g0g | coderus: Did you have anything to say about ContextMenu in Column? | 05:50 |
| coderus | m4g0g: you should use ComboBox, not context menu | 05:51 |
| m4g0g | It's a pity that irc channel hasn't logs ( | 05:51 |
| m4g0g | coderus: I'l try | 05:51 |
| coderus | m4g0g: http://merproject.org/logs/%23sailfishos/ | 05:52 |
| coderus | and image data you can get only with c++ helper afaik | 05:57 |
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| squidd | coderus: email notifications, dat spam :D | 06:09 |
| coderus | squidd: my nickname is not highlighted so frequently :) | 06:10 |
| m4g0g | coderus: I found way via Context and Canvas | 06:10 |
| m4g0g | about image data | 06:10 |
| coderus | m4g0g: what is way? | 06:10 |
| squidd | coderus: yeah but now its about to change cos you just told you might make email notifications | 06:10 |
| squidd | ;D | 06:10 |
| m4g0g | coderus: create Canvas, load image, get 2D context, get imagedata | 06:10 |
| coderus | m4g0g: why you doing it? :D | 06:11 |
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| m4g0g | why what? Why I need this? Because application has only 1 c++ class - CustomNetworkAccessManager and all others doing in qml including send/recieve data via XmlHttpRequest | 06:12 |
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| coderus | m4g0g: i mean why you ignoring easy c++ ways? | 06:13 |
| coderus | so, its your choose ofc., i just want to know why peoples doing that :D | 06:14 |
| m4g0g | coderus: it's interesting =) | 06:24 |
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| m4g0g | coderus: is it possible to show label in combobox in center (not in left side)? | 06:30 |
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| ryukafalz | coderus: I use weechat on my server and have it notify me of highlights via XMPP | 06:32 |
| ryukafalz | works quite well | 06:32 |
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| Nicd- | ryukafalz: how do you do that? | 06:34 |
| Nicd- | I'm interested :) | 06:34 |
| ryukafalz | and then I have an XMPP client on my phone and a smartwatch... end result, my wrist vibrates when I get highlighted ;) | 06:34 |
| ryukafalz | Nicd-: Weechat has an XMPP script in its scripts repository | 06:34 |
| Nicd- | what's it called? | 06:35 |
| coderus | m4g0g: use MenuItem as delegate | 06:35 |
| ryukafalz | http://weechat.org/scripts/source/highlightxmpp.py.html/ | 06:36 |
| ryukafalz | Nicd-: ^ | 06:36 |
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| Nicd- | ryukafalz: so I need two XMPP accounts set up? | 06:38 |
| ryukafalz | yep | 06:38 |
| Nicd- | on some network | 06:39 |
| ryukafalz | one for the bot, the other for receiving the messages | 06:39 |
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| ryukafalz | if you already have an XMPP account that you use, that can be the latter :P | 06:39 |
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| coderus | i'm using gtalk, i cant use xmpp bot | 06:50 |
| coderus | gtalk not accepting offline messages | 06:51 |
| ryukafalz | since when? o.o | 06:53 |
| ryukafalz | and anyway gtalk is a dying platform, I'd suggest another provider as it's unclear if/when gtalk will be going away | 06:53 |
| coderus | no thanks :) | 06:54 |
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| ryukafalz | hah, alright, but if it disappears one day you'll have only yourself to blame ;) | 06:54 |
| coderus | lol, i dont care :) | 06:57 |
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| coderus | highlight me for test | 07:01 |
| squidd | coderus: | 07:01 |
| coderus | good, working, thanks for highlight | 07:02 |
| coderus | :) | 07:02 |
| coderus | https://github.com/alanhamlett/AwayMail-Irssi-Plugin | 07:02 |
| coderus | it have limits for messages-per-10-minutes :) | 07:03 |
| squidd | guess I need to put that too now! :D | 07:04 |
| coderus | ;) | 07:04 |
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| squidd | coderus: your turn to highlight | 07:13 |
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| coderus | squidd: my pleasure :) | 07:22 |
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| squidd | \o/ | 07:28 |
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| faenil | I hope one day Jolla will listen and act :( | 08:46 |
| faenil | https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/893012 | 08:46 |
| faenil | that's the kind of info many are looking for | 08:46 |
| faenil | https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/926139 | 08:46 |
| Stskeeps | hmm? | 08:47 |
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| Sail0r | ? | 08:47 |
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| faenil | plans, details | 08:51 |
| faenil | roadmaps, updates | 08:51 |
| faenil | tech details explained to community | 08:51 |
| faenil | fresh news as soon as they have it | 08:51 |
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| faenil | always keeping community up to date as much as possible | 08:52 |
| Sail0r | read the mailinglist ;) | 08:52 |
| Sail0r | for update 6 / 7 it's already there :) | 08:52 |
| faenil | I read it, that's a good step in that direction, but let's not compare the two, sorry :p | 08:52 |
| Sail0r | yeah, it's not perfect | 08:53 |
| Sail0r | but much better then before | 08:53 |
| faenil | sure, I've been talking about this since like, 8months? more actually | 08:53 |
| faenil | maybe I was alone, otherwise I have no explanation why it took so long | 08:53 |
| Sail0r | because they have too much work maybe? | 08:54 |
| Sail0r | it's a small company remember that | 08:54 |
| faenil | I did an internship there, man :D | 08:54 |
| Sail0r | it's not always easy to keep people up to that | 08:54 |
| Sail0r | *dtae | 08:54 |
| Sail0r | *date ... | 08:54 |
| Sail0r | sry cannot write today it's friday ^^ | 08:54 |
| faenil | I know, I know, but it's just about priorities | 08:55 |
| Sail0r | you are right, I also hoped that official statements come faster | 08:55 |
| faenil | and imho, with the current users pool, having a high quality communication with the community is essential | 08:55 |
| Stskeeps | faenil: technical details missing is explained; it gets collected during iteration planning, we wanted status out first | 08:55 |
| Sail0r | like a statement for the reboot and or HW issues | 08:55 |
| faenil | Stskeeps, yeah, I read that...just noticed the new pathofexile updates and thought I'd mention the issue once more, you know :p | 08:56 |
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| faenil | just because it's not the first time I hear "we're about to start giving info" or similar :/ | 08:57 |
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| Stskeeps | well, this is a new thing, was agreed in community meeting, now executed? | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | so that's from that meeting | 08:58 |
| faenil | didn't mean the meeting :p but anyway, yes I'm glad to see something moving | 09:00 |
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| * Stskeeps is so tired today | 09:04 | |
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| SK_work | faenil: think that path of exile have more things to say than Jolla | 09:10 |
| SK_work | item rarities etc is a subject of discussion | 09:10 |
| SK_work | while features are less | 09:10 |
| faenil | SK_work, oh about company size Sail0r...PathOfExile people are like.....20! XD | 09:11 |
| faenil | SK_work, no it's just about choices | 09:11 |
| faenil | you have at least as many choices in an OS as you have in a game don't you agree | 09:11 |
| faenil | they've been making dev journals when they were developing the game as well | 09:12 |
| SK_work | faenil: hum, their article about graphical problems is interesting | 09:12 |
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| SK_work | though, I would prefer a blog post from devs themselves (if applied at Jolla) | 09:12 |
| faenil | I told Stskeeps about this many times in the past already :) | 09:12 |
| SK_work | (think w00t and Qt experience, or sledges and Android ?) | 09:12 |
| SK_work | but they might don't want to do that, if they don't like | 09:13 |
| faenil | SK_work, read the desync article, it's not marketing bs, it's good aricles | 09:13 |
| faenil | and you need people writing those, you can't have devs do that (well, that would be great) | 09:13 |
| SK_work | the feature plan for U6 / 7 is already good though :) | 09:13 |
| SK_work | faenil: desync ? | 09:13 |
| faenil | on the same subforum | 09:13 |
| * sledges cringes | 09:13 | |
| faenil | as said, the feature plan is a tiny step in the good direction, I'm just hoping it will evolve super fast into something much more comprehensive | 09:14 |
| faenil | (not the feature plan itself, but the "keeping users up to date with our choices" plan) | 09:14 |
| faenil | and the PathOfExile analogy suits our case perfectly imho | 09:15 |
| SK_work | faenil: reading PoE articles at work sounds wrong :D | 09:15 |
| SK_work | faenil: +1 about keeping users up-to-date with our choices | 09:15 |
| SK_work | and this can happen in several level | 09:15 |
| faenil | a very small company which is making a lot of money, probably (that's my opinion) also because of such good communication with users | 09:16 |
| SK_work | devs speaking about tech to execs speaking about partnerships | 09:16 |
| SK_work | faenil: +2 | 09:16 |
| SK_work | faenil: hey, raise this in ML and let's discuss on next meeting ? | 09:16 |
| faenil | free game, only cosmetic transactions, yet people buy a lot of them | 09:16 |
| faenil | I'm stupid because I was too busy playing the game and forgot to attend the last 2 meetings xD | 09:16 |
| SK_work | faenil: please come back :D | 09:17 |
| faenil | yeah I have to, need to start studying :D | 09:17 |
| faenil | btw as Stskeeps said already, this is already execution of what was told in the community meeting | 09:17 |
| faenil | so...I guess we just have to wait and see | 09:17 |
| faenil | time will tell | 09:17 |
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| SK_work | faenil: suggestions and feedback could be nice, based on this | 09:22 |
| SK_work | I already said in ML that I would like also some technical decisions | 09:23 |
| SK_work | to see if community can write code to Nemo too | 09:23 |
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| faenil | I have to read meetings logs | 09:24 |
| faenil | want to see if there was any update regarding the documentation of nemo | 09:24 |
| faenil | as I haven't seen any PR or anything re that | 09:24 |
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| SK_work | faenil: haha | 09:25 |
| SK_work | well, how to say | 09:25 |
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| SK_work | nobody write them | 09:25 |
| SK_work | because as we are all devs, we don't like writing docs | 09:26 |
| SK_work | :P | 09:26 |
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| faenil | SK_work, to that I'd reply "okay, let's fail then, because we're devs" | 09:27 |
| SK_work | faenil: you know, it's hard to maintain docs for components that change a lot | 09:28 |
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| SK_work | and if you don't have a policy of: you break something, you rewrite docs | 09:28 |
| faenil | SK_work, maybe if you start writing docs devs will make more pondered choices about API | 09:29 |
| faenil | instead of playing around because "we can always change it later" | 09:29 |
| faenil | and Jolla will never get to a better state this way | 09:29 |
| faenil | and it's the same for the rest | 09:30 |
| SK_work | faenil: I think it could be easy to start selecting some components and start writing docs yeah | 09:30 |
| SK_work | (eg some nemo plugins) | 09:30 |
| faenil | and it's the same for technical choices (cc Stskeeps who's lurking :P ) | 09:30 |
| SK_work | another topic to be discussed then | 09:30 |
| faenil | if you have to tell people about it, then maybe the dev will make a better research | 09:30 |
| SK_work | speaking of technical choices, there is an urgent need of having autodocs | 09:30 |
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| faenil | I think an overview of the module and its features takes 1-2 days for each dev | 09:47 |
| faenil | and all mw would be covered | 09:47 |
| faenil | *if only* people would be willing to write that | 09:47 |
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| faenil | gah, whatever :/ | 09:52 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | good morning | 10:15 |
| dr_gogeta86 | coderus, is da house ? | 10:15 |
| TMavica | is it possible let the copy paste button appear, if the bar hided | 10:15 |
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| Armadillo | is it possible to send an app directly to background/Cover mode after the start? | 10:41 |
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| Nicd- | yes | 10:42 |
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| Armadillo | how? :) | 10:42 |
| Armadillo | I already tried to deactivate the applicationwindow through qml | 10:43 |
| Nicd- | maybe ask Jonni, he did it for his IP address program | 10:43 |
| Nicd- | I just know it's possible because his app does that | 10:44 |
| Jonni | there are multiple ways to do it. Easiest is from C++ side. | 10:44 |
| Jonni | from QML side it's a bit trickier, but still possible. | 10:45 |
| Armadillo | hehe I already recognized the trickyness | 10:45 |
| Armadillo | can you give me a hint how I can get it through qml? | 10:46 |
| Jonni | applicationwindow has deactivate() method which minimizes the app. | 10:46 |
| Armadillo | yes I already tried it, but it didn't work, maybe because it is called too eraly | 10:47 |
| Armadillo | early | 10:47 |
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| Jonni | (and harder way is just to get window object and call lower() on that (thats how ipaddress app does it, because I did the app before deactivate() method was avail). | 10:48 |
| Armadillo | hm | 10:49 |
| Jonni | Armadillo: You might want to wait for Component.onCompleted before calling deactivate() | 10:49 |
| Armadillo | so maybe I have to call a c++ function through qml to get this working | 10:49 |
| Armadillo | yes I'm currently trying this | 10:50 |
| Armadillo | pagestatus.active doesn't work | 10:50 |
| Jonni | personally Im just triggering 100ms timer onCompleted and calling lower then | 10:50 |
| Armadillo | well I wanted to avoid such hacks, to avoid problems on busy devices where the application startup would take more time | 10:51 |
| Jonni | any pastebin available what are you currently calling onCompeted function? | 10:53 |
| Armadillo | http://pastebin.com/4k7EN6CT | 10:54 |
| Armadillo | it's in line 12 | 10:54 |
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| Jonni | you need to call deactivate on mainWindow, or is taskListWindow your main window? | 10:55 |
| Armadillo | yes | 10:56 |
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| Jonni | so your renamed main.qml window id to be taskListWindow? | 10:56 |
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| Armadillo | exactly | 10:57 |
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| Jonni | hmm, then its wierd. | 10:57 |
| Armadillo | interesting is, that the applicationStatus var is false in both cases | 10:57 |
| Armadillo | before and after the deactivation | 10:58 |
| Armadillo | applicationActive | 10:58 |
| Armadillo | sorry | 10:58 |
| Armadillo | I'll do some more debugging and post the results to the mailing list | 10:59 |
| Armadillo | the timer hack works :-/ | 11:04 |
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| Armadillo | it seems the application is not really completely started when the onComplete Event occurs | 11:08 |
| Armadillo | thanks Jonni and Nicd- | 11:08 |
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| coderus | dr_gogeta86: ? | 11:37 |
| m4g0g | hello | 11:39 |
| m4g0g | we have 306 users here and we have so little amount of native applications (( | 11:40 |
| Nicd- | more will come :) | 11:41 |
| nthu | indeed! | 11:43 |
| Juuba | i'm just an user :D and test engineer, so I just like to follow the chat and report issues if&when I can | 11:44 |
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| Nicd- | I'm programming whenever I have time but it's a slow process | 11:45 |
| walokra | ^ same here | 11:46 |
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| Armadillo | well | 11:52 |
| Armadillo | I'm already planning my next app | 11:52 |
| m4g0g | what app? | 11:53 |
| Armadillo | but as I'm only a sysadmin, not real developer all programming takes more time :-/ | 11:53 |
| m4g0g | and what is ur previous app? | 11:53 |
| Armadillo | TaskList is my first | 11:53 |
| Armadillo | I'm planning a packet tracking app for multiple shipping distributors | 11:53 |
| Armadillo | maybe with a barcode integration | 11:53 |
| m4g0g | sounds very tasty | 11:54 |
| Armadillo | but there's much work to do :-/ | 11:54 |
| Armadillo | and so little free time | 11:55 |
| Armadillo | oh come on... why the hell does the timer hack work on the emulator, but not on the device | 11:55 |
| Armadillo | -.- | 11:55 |
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| coderus | which hack? | 11:56 |
| Armadillo | the applicationwindow-deactivate issue we discussed above | 11:57 |
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| coderus | i have no problems with active state | 11:59 |
| coderus | you want to get state when your window minimized and maximized? | 12:00 |
| Armadillo | I want to minimize the window directly with the startup | 12:00 |
| Armadillo | but it seems the oncomplete event occurs to eraly | 12:00 |
| Armadillo | early | 12:01 |
| coderus | didnt tried, but probably exporting QGuiApplications object to qml will be better idea | 12:01 |
| Armadillo | it works with a timer of 50ms between the start and the deactivation | 12:01 |
| coderus | Armadillo: why not to set it on activeChanged state? | 12:01 |
| Armadillo | because I didn't know there is such a state :D | 12:02 |
| Armadillo | oh that's not true | 12:02 |
| Armadillo | you mean this one? case PageStatus.Active: | 12:03 |
| coderus | appWindow.active property have onPropertyChanged signal of course :) | 12:03 |
| Armadillo | hm | 12:03 |
| Armadillo | good point | 12:03 |
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| coderus | means appWindow.onActiveChanged | 12:03 |
| Armadillo | it seems I should read the signal documentation^^ | 12:10 |
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| Yaniel | what was the channel for caldav/carddav sync on sailfish again? | 12:42 |
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| CissWit | Hi, trying to play with the SDK, i have a problem. Qt creator can't connect to MerSDK and SailfishOS Emulator VMs. Is there something special i need to do to make it work that i missed in the documentation ? | 13:10 |
| SK_work | CissWit: OS ? | 13:11 |
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| SK_work | (for host) win linux mac ? | 13:11 |
| CissWit | Debian squeeze, linux | 13:11 |
| CissWit | the VM are correctly launched by QT creator, just it can't connect to them | 13:12 |
| SK_work | CissWit: use your virtualbox and launch the SDK ? | 13:12 |
| SK_work | tried ssh into it ? | 13:12 |
| SK_work | ssh -p 2222 -i/path/to/SDK/emulator/vmshare/mersdk/mersdk mersdk@localhost | 13:12 |
| SK_work | (something like that, forgot exactly where the mersdk private key is) | 13:12 |
| CissWit | it works | 13:15 |
| CissWit | ok its working now dumb problem on my side | 13:17 |
| CissWit | sorry :) | 13:17 |
| SK_work | CissWit: then when pressing the "connect to SDK" in QtC ? | 13:17 |
| CissWit | well the problem was that "localhost" resolved as IPv6 but it's not listnening on the IPv6 interface.. so it timed out | 13:19 |
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| SK_work | :D | 13:21 |
| SK_work | ipv6 :( | 13:22 |
| CissWit | btw i have the same issue than https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2013-December/002148.html. I have to unplug the charger so the battery isn't full and the VM doesn't detect an empty battery. | 13:23 |
| m4g0g | how to detect end of listview reacing? | 13:27 |
| m4g0g | lol, launching app from qtcreator and from emulator are different | 13:31 |
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| coderus | m4g0g: detect what? | 13:36 |
| m4g0g | coderus: thai user reaced end of list | 13:37 |
| m4g0g | that* | 13:37 |
| m4g0g | reached* | 13:37 |
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| SK_work | m4g0g: listView.atX(Y)End ? | 13:38 |
| coderus | atYEnd | 13:38 |
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| m4g0g | fuck, i can't continue programming because can't solve six-pages problem.Does anybody has applications with many pages in stack? | 13:51 |
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| Nicd- | maybe SK_work's Friends? | 13:51 |
| m4g0g | no | 13:53 |
| m4g0g | i check. There is no many pages in stack | 13:53 |
| m4g0g | there are* | 13:53 |
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| coderus | m4g0g: possible solution: push ApplicationWindow component :) | 13:55 |
| m4g0g | hm | 13:58 |
| m4g0g | is it possible? | 13:58 |
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| m4g0g | coderus: no, it's impossible. this page show from very beginning | 14:00 |
| SK_work | m4g0g: how come ? | 14:01 |
| SK_work | why do you have so many pages in stack | 14:01 |
| SK_work | and what's the problem | 14:01 |
| SK_work | (Friends handles 6 rather heavy pages) | 14:01 |
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| SK_work | m4g0g: what the six-pages problem ? | 14:05 |
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| m4g0g | SK_work: problem - how to decrease amount of pages to 4 | 14:10 |
| SK_work | m4g0g: why ? | 14:10 |
| SK_work | explain me the flow as well | 14:11 |
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| SK_work | kind of app, what do you put in each page | 14:11 |
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| m4g0g | I am developing goodreads client. I have next pages: profile -> user groups -> search groups -> group detail -> group folders -> group's folder's topics -> topic | 14:13 |
| m4g0g | and I don't know what pages I can unite or replace in this case | 14:14 |
| Sidde | How for away is qt 5.2 in sailfish now? before or after the summer? | 14:15 |
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| faenil | Sidde, good question, it seems it's not part of update7 plan? | 14:15 |
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| m4g0g | SK_work: any ideas? | 14:28 |
| SK_work | m4g0g: explain me more the content of the pages and what pages goes to which one | 14:31 |
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| SK_work | thought about a global menu to access user groups, search groups, details with group folders ? | 14:32 |
| SK_work | global groups detail topics topic ? | 14:32 |
| SK_work | it's 5 | 14:32 |
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| m4g0g | SK_work: user profile page with profile menu (friends. groups, books) | 14:37 |
| m4g0g | groups page - list view with groups | 14:37 |
| m4g0g | search - search field with list view | 14:37 |
| m4g0g | group details - page with list view and some Labels and Images | 14:37 |
| m4g0g | group folders - list view | 14:37 |
| m4g0g | folders topics - list view | 14:37 |
| m4g0g | topic - widget with text, list view, buttons | 14:37 |
| SK_work | m4g0g: tell me the priority: which pages the users stays the most ? | 14:39 |
| SK_work | folder topics and topics right ? | 14:39 |
| SK_work | and there is a hierachy, like group -> folders -> topic | 14:40 |
| SK_work | so IMO I propose you something like: main (user profile, search group, available groups) -> group detail and folders (details in attached page) -> topic folders -> topic ? | 14:41 |
| SK_work | what do you think ? | 14:41 |
| m4g0g | SK_work: what do you mean under "attached page"? | 14:43 |
| SK_work | m4g0g: used friends ? | 14:43 |
| m4g0g | yes | 14:43 |
| SK_work | the menu on the right is attached page | 14:44 |
| SK_work | (or same in messages app, in conversation, you have info of the contact attached) | 14:44 |
| m4g0g | but this is one more level, isn't it? | 14:45 |
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| m4g0g | hm.I am thinking about your idea. Thank you very much | 14:48 |
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| alexxy | hi all | 15:46 |
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| alexxy | how to make a screenshot on jolla? | 15:46 |
| faenil | alexxy, there are apps for it, or there's a dbus call, or a bin you can call | 15:47 |
| Plnt | alexxy: there is an app for that in the jolla store | 15:47 |
| faenil | many ways :) | 15:47 |
| alexxy | ok i have ssh enabled =) | 15:47 |
| alexxy | any how to? | 15:47 |
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| faenil | want to go apps? or use the bin? | 15:48 |
| alexxy | bin =) or dbus call | 15:48 |
| alexxy | or there is regular wayland way? | 15:48 |
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| faenil | wayland is just a protocol :) | 15:49 |
| alexxy | i'm not familar with it =) | 15:49 |
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| faenil | alexxy, this is for the dbus call | 15:51 |
| faenil | https://github.com/nemomobile/lipstick/blob/master/src/shutdownscreen.xml | 15:51 |
| faenil | oops sorry wrong file | 15:51 |
| faenil | https://github.com/nemomobile/lipstick/blob/master/src/screenshotservice.xml | 15:51 |
| faenil | and this is the bin, which is just a script using the dbus call | 15:52 |
| faenil | https://github.com/nemomobile/lipstick/blob/master/tools/screenshottool/screenshottool | 15:52 |
| faenil | opensource FTW :D | 15:52 |
| alexxy | =) | 15:53 |
| alexxy | thanks =) | 15:53 |
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| faenil | np ;) | 15:53 |
| alexxy | btw why in announce of next features said that lte will be enabled for Finland and Estonia only? | 15:54 |
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| faenil | no idea, maybe certifications related? | 15:55 |
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| SK_work | alexxy: testing before widespread ? | 15:55 |
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| faenil | or maybe just because Finland and Estonia operators are trusting Jolla and they give them a priority? | 15:55 |
| SK_work | alexxy: reminder: Jolla is official only in FI / Estonia | 15:55 |
| faenil | or yeah, just for testing purposes :) | 15:55 |
| SK_work | (not even in HK) | 15:55 |
| SK_work | they have offices in HK though | 15:55 |
| alexxy | he he =D | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | * 4G support for users in Finland, Hong Kong and Estonia | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | https://together.jolla.com/question/2135/enable-4g-lte/ | 15:56 |
| alexxy | FI and Estonia not too far from me =D | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | For the next update (update 7), we have planned the following new additions: | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | * LTE enabled for everyone https://together.jolla.com/question/2135/enable-4g-lte/ | 15:56 |
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| TMavica | Hong Kong got official LTE support too | 15:58 |
| TMavica | 3 country: Finland, Hong Kong, Estonia | 15:59 |
| TMavica | i am ready for 4G , sim card changed | 15:59 |
| TMavica | LOL | 15:59 |
| SK_work | TMavica: :D | 16:00 |
| SK_work | you are lucky | 16:00 |
| SK_work | as one of the only Jolla user in HK | 16:00 |
| TMavica | there is 3 i know | 16:00 |
| TMavica | 1 is girl | 16:00 |
| SK_work | TMavica: that is not amanda lam | 16:00 |
| TMavica | yes, not her | 16:01 |
| TMavica | other one | 16:01 |
| TMavica | she told me she will rush for the aloe TOH when release there | 16:01 |
| TMavica | LOL | 16:01 |
| SK_work | TMavica: aloe one is quite good yeah | 16:01 |
| SK_work | but I prefer the orange | 16:01 |
| SK_work | (poppy red) | 16:01 |
| SK_work | (not first one though) | 16:01 |
| SK_work | (nor "made this" :() | 16:02 |
| TMavica | I am surprise that have girl use Jolla | 16:02 |
| SK_work | TMavica: honestly ? ambiences and colored OHs attracts girls | 16:02 |
| SK_work | :) | 16:02 |
| SK_work | still too geeky right now to be used by non-geek girls | 16:02 |
| TMavica | i havent buy the poggy red, because I feel it totally same as my first one.. | 16:02 |
| SK_work | but it's going toward stability | 16:02 |
| SK_work | TMavica: yes, poppy red is useless if you have 1st one | 16:02 |
| TMavica | yes. i havent buy it | 16:03 |
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| TMavica | in the update 6, i really concern how the handwriting work. | 16:03 |
| TMavica | made by Penpower or made by..? | 16:03 |
| SK_work | TMavica: why ? | 16:03 |
| SK_work | not penpower IMO | 16:04 |
| TMavica | how u know | 16:04 |
| TMavica | lol | 16:04 |
| SK_work | TMavica: because no partnership | 16:04 |
| SK_work | TMavica: is penpower that much better ? | 16:04 |
| TMavica | O, you right | 16:04 |
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| TMavica | yes, Penpower is most useful and recognize word I ever use before | 16:05 |
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| TMavica | but how the LTE limited to 3 country only | 16:06 |
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| SK_work | TMavica: IMO it will work that's all | 16:06 |
| SK_work | TMavica: dunno | 16:06 |
| TMavica | if that country support LTE for Jolla, cant use it? strange | 16:06 |
| TMavica | i mean the sim card support LTE | 16:07 |
| TMavica | and same frequency as Jolla mentioned | 16:07 |
| SK_work | TMavica: use radio switches | 16:07 |
| SK_work | :) | 16:07 |
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| TMavica | I ever use it, it work | 16:07 |
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| TMavica | I just afraid Jolla is limited for 1 operator | 16:07 |
| TMavica | not my operator.. | 16:08 |
| SK_work | TMavica: don't think so | 16:09 |
| SK_work | I'm using 4G with "Free" in France without issue | 16:09 |
| SK_work | even if "Free" prevents users to profit from their 20Go data plan without 4G | 16:10 |
| SK_work | it detects the Jolla as 4G, so, I can have 4G | 16:10 |
| TMavica | but Jolla said 3 country only, what they mean | 16:10 |
| SK_work | TMavica: they don't limit to an operator tjhough | 16:11 |
| SK_work | they limit to country | 16:11 |
| SK_work | note that U7 will remove this limitation as well | 16:11 |
| TMavica | ic | 16:11 |
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| TMavica | is Marc everytime been to that country when Jolla official release there? | 16:13 |
| TMavica | like Estonia | 16:13 |
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| ryukafalz | Has anyone ported Sailfish to the 2012 Nexus 7? And if so, is the image/kickstart file available anywhere? | 16:39 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: I've been using the N4 build full time for a few weeks now and I stand by my statement - for my usage, this is very nearly "good enough", but sadly I just can't take the home screen crashing / locking up 3 times a day and requiring me to hard power-cycle the phone | 16:39 |
| dwangoAC | The other feature that I'm still struggling with is the lack of Bluetooth, as it means that I can't make calls while driving (which I do infrequently, but needed to do last night to let my wife know I was headed home) | 16:39 |
| dwangoAC | Are there any plans for another Nexus 4 build in the near future? | 16:40 |
| dwangoAC | I'm very appreciative of the work you and stephg have done on this, though! | 16:41 |
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| Stskeeps | dwangoAC: yes, we're waiting for next sailfishos updat | 17:18 |
| Stskeeps | e | 17:18 |
| Stskeeps | i didn't crack bluetooth yet | 17:18 |
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| vgrade | evening all | 18:07 |
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| Stskeeps | evening vgrade | 18:10 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: Thanks for the update | 18:10 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: Anything interesting coming in the next update? | 18:10 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 18:10 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: In particular, anything toward getting it to not crash as often? :) | 18:10 |
| dwangoAC | k | 18:10 |
| vgrade | \o Stskeeps | 18:11 |
| Stskeeps | https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2014-May/004167.html and yes, hopefully | 18:11 |
| Stskeeps | and we fixed audio controls, at least | 18:13 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: Cool! | 18:14 |
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| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: I'm looking forward to it. Will there be a way to get Android App compatibility on the Nexus 4? | 18:14 |
| dwangoAC | (Even if I have to hack it in somehow? :) | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | perhaps at some point in the future | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | basics first | 18:14 |
| dwangoAC | What's holding that up from working, store support? | 18:14 |
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| Stskeeps | it's a commercial product as a start | 18:15 |
| dwangoAC | Something you plan on selling, in other words? | 18:15 |
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| Stskeeps | long story short, there's something called a SW Bill Of Materials too. when you buy let's say, a jolla phone, the SW BOM is included, which contains things/licenses/codecs/apps you pay per device | 18:15 |
| Stskeeps | on a non-jolla device we'd be taking a loss if we gave it for free per device -- so that needs to be figured out how to be handled sanely | 18:16 |
| Stskeeps | we have some value add things like audio/video codecs, exchange support, HERE positioning/maps, android runtime on the jolla, as an example | 18:16 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: The Raspberry Pi foundation had the same problem with MPEG2 codecs | 18:17 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: They solved it by having a separate license you could buy | 18:17 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 18:17 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: Question, if you don't mind me asking - how much does Alien Dalvilk cost you? | 18:17 |
| dwangoAC | Feel free to not answer if that is private information | 18:17 |
| Stskeeps | can't answer, sorry | 18:17 |
| dwangoAC | I understand. Just trying to get a bead on what a fiar price would be | 18:18 |
| dwangoAC | *fair | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | less than 399 EUR ;) | 18:18 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: In reality, while the SailfishOS should stay free (IMHO, with my "President of a Linux LUG" hat on) | 18:18 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: Per phone, or total? :) | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 18:18 |
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| dwangoAC | But, yeah, whil I think the OS should be free, I think you should be paid | 18:18 |
| dwangoAC | For things like the extra software for Alien Dalvlk (always misspell that) | 18:19 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. i think (personally!) that it doesn't make much sense to try and spread a mobile OS by charging for it | 18:19 |
| Stskeeps | other business models needed | 18:19 |
| dwangoAC | Right | 18:19 |
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| dwangoAC | SUpport models, etc. | 18:19 |
| dwangoAC | Red Hat is the shining example | 18:19 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but when did you last see anybody talking to a mobile phone care line? ;) | 18:19 |
| dwangoAC | I'm here to say that if you can make it available, I would pay a reasonable amount up-front for all of the software you mentioned | 18:19 |
| Sidde | redhat is not opensource and not free | 18:19 |
| Stskeeps | (nor is sailfish, fwiw) | 18:20 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:20 |
| Stskeeps | as in, fully oss | 18:20 |
| Sidde | correction, rhel is not | 18:20 |
| dwangoAC | Sidde: Not in the strictest sense of free, but things like Scientific Linux are | 18:20 |
| Sidde | dwangoAC: yes | 18:20 |
| dwangoAC | Sidde: Right | 18:20 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: So how much would you consider a fair price for the codecs, exchange support, Android App Compatibility, etc. as a "OS for free, SailfishOS Plus costs..."? | 18:21 |
| dwangoAC | Something like $30 per phone up-front? | 18:21 |
| Stskeeps | sorry :) | 18:21 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: Or are you thinking a subscription model? | 18:21 |
| Stskeeps | very good questions, though | 18:21 |
| ryukafalz | Looking at hardware things... Moto G and Jolla both have a Snapdragon 400, wonder how easy it would be to port considering that. Of course that doesn't take other hardware into account... | 18:21 |
| Stskeeps | ryukafalz: i've at some point in my past put sailfishos on a crappy little alcatel one touch fire.. | 18:21 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: Long and the short of it, as a consumer that is willing to pay I would prefer to only have to pay once, and I would prefer to pay a "reasonable" amount, where reasonable is hard to define but no more than, say, $70 USD at the very most | 18:22 |
| ryukafalz | Stskeeps: Aha, and with all the hardware working? | 18:22 |
| Aard | dwangoAC: it'd depend on volumes as well, for some of the parts. so we might need to start charging something quite high, and have the ability to lower it eventually | 18:22 |
| dwangoAC | Aard: Of course | 18:22 |
| Stskeeps | ryukafalz: well, gpu is enough for PoC | 18:22 |
| dwangoAC | Aard: And, quite honestly, I'd prefer ala carte pricing | 18:22 |
| dwangoAC | Aard: I do not require Exchange support, for instance | 18:22 |
| dwangoAC | But I'd want to be able to buy it once for my "account" and use it on a new phone if I buy a new one, and as a greedy consumer I'd want ongoing software updates to be free, and... yeah, consumers are demanding | 18:23 |
| Stskeeps | dwangoAC: 70 USD in total over let's say 12 months would be a 'good deal' from subscription pov -- whatsapp's evaluation of what, 5 billion, was due to people paying 1 usd/year or something like that | 18:24 |
| Aard | dwangoAC: _if_ we find a way to charge for stuff my personal position would be to go through store and do it component based (apart from our own 'flagship' device, when we sell it in the store it probably should just have all the options) | 18:24 |
| dwangoAC | So at that point, WingIDE's licensing model seems the most sane - you get all updates of major versions (3.x license gets you all 3.x updates), and you get a discount on major versions (to 4.x, etc.) | 18:24 |
| ryukafalz | Stskeeps: True, but not so nice as a daily driver :P | 18:24 |
| dwangoAC | Aard: Agree with you on "flagship" device | 18:24 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: But I hate subscription modeling as a consumer | 18:24 |
| * ryukafalz will likely get a Nexus 4 if he can find one at a reasonable price | 18:24 | |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: There's a really cool project called vim-adventure.com that teaches you how to use Vim by playing a video game, but after you get through the first level it says "Register for $25 to get a 6 months license" | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | dwangoAC: worst one i saw.. contraction counter | 18:25 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: That just offends me - for $25 for a simple game I expect to be able to "keep" it | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | after 3, it asks you to upgrade.. | 18:25 |
| Aard | dwangoAC: I like the model of goosync. they have subscription models, or you can pay a bit more once | 18:25 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: WHat the.. | 18:25 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: That's horrible | 18:26 |
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| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: You'd only find out after you were in the very moment when you needed it | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | i'm fairly sure that's the business model | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:26 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: "Hang on honey, I gotta find my credit card!" | 18:26 |
| dwangoAC | Aard: I'd be a "pay a bit more once" customer. Not familiar with goosync | 18:26 |
| dwangoAC | Aard: I'll have to look that one up | 18:26 |
| Aard | dwangoAC: they provide syncml interface to google services | 18:27 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: Anyway, take my feedback as merely suggestions from a consumer, and do what is right for your company. | 18:27 |
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| Stskeeps | :nod: | 18:27 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: If there is anything I can do to help out, just let me know. | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | dwangoAC: did you see Flattr ever at some point? | 18:27 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: Flattr? What's that? | 18:27 |
| * dwangoAC is oblivious to social media | 18:27 | |
| Stskeeps | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flattr | 18:27 |
| Aard | it's a way to send me money :p | 18:28 |
| dwangoAC | I am a Bitcoin supporter | 18:28 |
| dwangoAC | I've been mining Bitcoin since 2011 | 18:28 |
| dwangoAC | So for me, the only correct microtransaciton method is Bitcoin :) | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | well, anyhow, the flattr stuff is 'pay XX/month, decide what %'s go to what parties' | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | so you could state let's say, 10% go to sailfishos | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | good for oss | 18:28 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: I agree with the concept | 18:29 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: I think that is one of the best strengths of Bitcoin, is it's easy to send small amounts of money (and painless / costs nearly nothing) | 18:29 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 18:29 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: That allows new business models | 18:29 |
| Stskeeps | naturally | 18:29 |
| ryukafalz | it's not ideal for really small microtransactions though :P | 18:29 |
| mikma | it's like humblebundle, but not | 18:30 |
| dwangoAC | ryukafalz: Actually, it's not bad for that eiether | 18:30 |
| dwangoAC | ryukafalz: There was some blowback from Satoshidice | 18:30 |
| dwangoAC | ryukafalz: But in all honesty, if you want to move, say, 3 cents, it'd cost a fraction of a penny in a transaction fee if that's what you wanted to offer | 18:30 |
| ryukafalz | dwangoAC: Imagine 100 projects doing something similar to satoshidice though and what it would do to the blockchain | 18:31 |
| dwangoAC | ryukafalz: What's a problem now is that the Bitcoin Core wallet doesn't do a great job of setting transaction fees for small transactions | 18:31 |
| dwangoAC | ryukafalz: The blockchain handling definitely needs to improve to handle larger volumes of transactions of all sizes, not just small ones | 18:31 |
| dwangoAC | it's a scale question regardless of the size of the transactions | 18:32 |
| dwangoAC | ryukafalz: I would welcome 100 projects doing the same volume as Satoshidice (or, more likely, 100,000 projects doing 1% of what Satoshidice does) | 18:32 |
| ryukafalz | True, it's just a lot easier to up the transaction volume when you're shifting around tiny amounts :P | 18:32 |
| dwangoAC | Right :) | 18:33 |
| dwangoAC | But, I dgress | 18:33 |
| dwangoAC | *digress | 18:33 |
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| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: Oh, one other bug - on the Nexus 4, using the brwoser to scroll to the bottom of a slashdot.org page causes it to crash. | 18:33 |
| dwangoAC | I do not yet know why. | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | dwangoAC: hmm will keep that in mind | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | i currently have 'won't even start up' on my latest image, so, that takes first prio ;) | 18:34 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: Are browser logs stored somewhere I can look up for you? | 18:34 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: I imagine it would :) | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | what'd you do with a OS with built in bitcoin support, ooi? | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | (i'm doing research, so, don't taket his as official statements..) | 18:34 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: If it had NFC support I would use it to pay for stuff at stores that accepted Bitcoin | 18:34 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: And research is a good thing | 18:34 |
| ryukafalz | dwangoAC: Somewhat off-topic for this channel, but a possible solution is http://opentransactions.org/ - another project I'm following is looking into using that for per-packet microtransactions on a network | 18:35 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: Heck, if it didn't have NFC support but had QR support I'd scan a QR code and pay a vendor that way | 18:35 |
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| dwangoAC | ryukafalz: I'll have to look into that, that sounds interesting (especially since I work on networking as my day job, albeit 100 Gbps equipment) | 18:35 |
| ryukafalz | dwangoAC: The project in question is http://projectmeshnet.org/ | 18:36 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: As far as what else I would do with an OS with built-in Bitcoin support, for the immediate future I would use it to buy gift cards from Gyft and to buy Humble Bundles | 18:37 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: As in, for the time being it would all be internet purchaes | 18:37 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 18:37 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: As vendors in brick-and-mortar stores start to adopt Bitcoin it would transition to in-person | 18:37 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: Also, you should consider 2-of-3 wallets - | 18:37 |
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| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: Very, very important concept | 18:37 |
| Stskeeps | 2-of-3 wallets? | 18:38 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: The phone would have one key, "you" or a bank would have the other | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 18:38 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: The third key would be in a safety deposit box | 18:38 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: When I want to make a transaction, it has to be signed by both the private key on the phone and the "bank" | 18:38 |
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| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: If the bank pulls a Greece, they can't take your money (they have only 1 key) | 18:38 |
| ryukafalz | Built-in support would be awesome for NFC or QR code bitcoin purchases at stores | 18:38 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: If you lose your private key, you recover using the "bank" + your key in the safety deposit box | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | interesting | 18:39 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: The "bank" uses sane anti-fraud methods to determine which transactions to allow | 18:39 |
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| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: So if, suddenly, you try to empty your entire wallet, the service the "bank" provides is checking with you by E-Mail first | 18:39 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: And text message, and a phone call, and whatever | 18:39 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: Depends on how "severe" the transaction is | 18:39 |
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| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: This is a huge opportunity. Just waiting for someone to implement it. | 18:40 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: Current leaders here are crypto-corp | 18:40 |
| ryukafalz | oh, that's cool, I hadn't thought of using 2-of-3 purchases for that use case | 18:40 |
| dwangoAC | ryukafalz: It's a really sane use case | 18:40 |
| dwangoAC | It's a way of mitigating the "risk" of using Bitcoin | 18:40 |
| ryukafalz | dwangoAC: Yeah. Also good for things like escrow - a neutral third party can verify that a product has been received | 18:41 |
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| ryukafalz | or am I thinking of something else... | 18:41 |
| dwangoAC | ryukafalz: That's different - those are 2-of-3 multisignature transactions | 18:41 |
| dwangoAC | ryukafalz: Those are fantastic for escrow | 18:41 |
| ryukafalz | right | 18:41 |
| dwangoAC | ryukafalz: And honestly, they are fantastic in general | 18:41 |
| dwangoAC | ryukafalz: The neutral party only gets involved if they have to | 18:41 |
| ryukafalz | it's really cool that bitcoin can do all this stuff | 18:41 |
| dwangoAC | ryukafalz: Yes, it just takes a platform to make it possible ( Stskeeps, that's where your wallet / Bitcoin support on the phone come into play) | 18:42 |
| dwangoAC | ryukafalz: It also takes one other odd thing that people haven't thought of | 18:42 |
| dwangoAC | ryukafalz: Vendors that accept Bitcoin need to start paying a part of their employee's compensation in Bitcoin | 18:42 |
| ryukafalz | though I'm not sure how necesary it would be to build it into the OS vs. just having a wallet app on the phone | 18:42 |
| dwangoAC | ryukafalz: WIthout that, the system never gets the feedback loop of adoption needed | 18:42 |
| dwangoAC | ryukafalz: It should be an unprivileged wallet app, outside of protecting the private key from theft | 18:43 |
| dwangoAC | ryukafalz: That's the only part that might need to be "in the OS" | 18:43 |
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| dwangoAC | All very exciting | 18:44 |
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| ryukafalz | oh, though some knowledge of bitcoin in the OS could be useful for in-app transactions (with authorization from the user, of course) | 18:48 |
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| ryukafalz | or rather, maybe some kind of generic "payment" API - pay X amount (local currency) to Y party via Z method | 18:49 |
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| Stskeeps | well, 'pay' button in contacts.. | 18:50 |
| ryukafalz | aha, that would be interesting | 18:51 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: That'd be good | 18:53 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: Coinbase has a "pay user by E-Mail" but it just makes the receipient sign up for a Coinbase account, not quite ideal :) | 18:53 |
| dwangoAC | Stskeeps: I suppose a user could have a bitcoin address associated with them, not ideal because it would reduce privacy, but it'd work | 18:54 |
| dwangoAC | (associted in address book) | 18:54 |
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| ryukafalz | dwangoAC: How would that reduce privacy? It's a local address book - same as the bitcoin client's address book. | 18:56 |
| dwangoAC | ryukafalz: Right, but ideally you want to make transactions to new addresses every time | 18:57 |
| ryukafalz | dwangoAC: For transactions between friends is that really that important though? | 18:58 |
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| ryukafalz | Anyway, gotta head to work - see you later | 19:02 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | Stskeeps , a single question .... | 20:55 |
| dr_gogeta86 | when will be possible to put on harbour rpms who extend share ui ? | 20:56 |
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| dr_ | Re | 21:06 |
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