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| Normal | Hi. | 00:27 |
|---|---|---|
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| Guest77367 | How would start going about changing the way the pull down gesture works? | 00:28 |
| Guest77367 | From the top of the screen. | 00:29 |
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| Manontherightoft | Maybe now isn't the right time. | 00:33 |
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| Manontherightoft | \quit night time here. | 00:42 |
| Manontherightoft | \quit night time here. | 00:42 |
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| eternal_sorrow | hi all | 01:38 |
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| elenril | so..did the recent update reenable fastboot? | 07:07 |
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| tbr | elenril: I thought that had already been done, but you need to unlock the device or such | 07:12 |
| zoldyck | is it ok to clear /data/data/<appname>/* to delete an Android application's data? | 07:13 |
| tbr | IIRC yes | 07:14 |
| elenril | ah, i see it's in the recovery menu | 07:15 |
| elenril | i assume i can then lock it again when i'm done? | 07:15 |
| tbr | not sure what it does etc | 07:18 |
| tbr | on android this would nuke all your data, just saying | 07:18 |
| elenril | that would be quite unpleasant | 07:19 |
| tbr | make a backup first then :) | 07:20 |
| elenril | there's nothing much important there so far | 07:21 |
| elenril | and yes, seems it is possible to re-lock | 07:22 |
| elenril | that's good | 07:22 |
| zoldyck | is it ok to symlink /data/sdcard to /media/sdcard/android? :) | 07:25 |
| Stskeeps | elenril: you use recovery menu and you can lock/relock at will | 07:29 |
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| Stskeeps | note that this might change in case a emmc encryption is put in place though, ie, that it might cause a factory reset | 07:30 |
| Stskeeps | but no clue about that | 07:30 |
| elenril | hmm, is 'fastboot -i 0x2931 boot boot.img' supposed to boot into the new image immediately | 07:31 |
| elenril | because that does not seem to happen | 07:31 |
| Stskeeps | sure you made it right? | 07:31 |
| elenril | i was using this image before the update | 07:32 |
| elenril | it worked fine | 07:32 |
| Stskeeps | may be that only flash works | 07:32 |
| Stskeeps | if so, grab a copy from /boot or how was it of the current system one | 07:32 |
| zoldyck | how can I get the version of an installed Android app? (it was installed from .apk) | 07:33 |
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| elenril | maybe something changed in initrd that's not needed for boot... | 07:36 |
| elenril | or wait, iirc there was no initrd at least before the update | 07:36 |
| Stskeeps | 1.0.4 has a initrd now afaik | 07:37 |
| elenril | then i guess i'll have to extract it and repack my image | 07:38 |
| elenril | sigh, i already forgot how to work with those android tools | 07:38 |
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| AL13N | Stskeeps: is there a howto somewhere to manually chroot into / and /home from the recovery mode or whatnot? | 08:05 |
| Stskeeps | hmm not offhand | 08:06 |
| elenril | ok, success | 08:09 |
| Stskeeps | it was that? | 08:09 |
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| elenril | my old kernel with a new initrd boots | 08:09 |
| Stskeeps | good | 08:09 |
| Dr_Cain | wonder how much they changed since | 08:12 |
| elenril | from what i saw it's just three new options enabled in config | 08:12 |
| Dr_Cain | oh | 08:14 |
| elenril | the initrd seems to be just busybox + root mounting script | 08:14 |
| Stskeeps | it sorts out some bad btrfs bootlop behaviour | 08:14 |
| elenril | ah | 08:14 |
| elenril | i'm not exactly a fan of btrfs, been wondering how suicidal it'd be to replace it with ext4 | 08:15 |
| Stskeeps | fairly | 08:15 |
| elenril | well beyond the boot scripts nothing should really depend on it | 08:16 |
| Stskeeps | factory reset, as an example | 08:16 |
| elenril | right | 08:17 |
| elenril | i can do snapshots with lvm too | 08:17 |
| Stskeeps | well, we use ext4 on the sailfish for android stuff | 08:17 |
| elenril | why doesn't btrfs work there? | 08:18 |
| Stskeeps | well, we sideload into the userdata partition | 08:19 |
| Stskeeps | so that's why :P | 08:19 |
| elenril | heh | 08:19 |
| Dr_Cain | ah | 08:20 |
| Stskeeps | and a loop device with btrfs is more insanity than i'd like ;) | 08:20 |
| zoldyck | Stskeeps: what do you mean by android stuff? mount only shows /persist /drm /var/systemlog as ext4 partitions | 08:21 |
| Stskeeps | zoldyck: the sailfishos for existing android devices | 08:22 |
| zoldyck | ah, ok | 08:22 |
| Dr_Cain | on android hw I believe | 08:22 |
| Dr_Cain | yeah | 08:22 |
| AL13N | you could convert the ext4 to btrfs and keep ext4 usable... but that's quite the insanity | 08:25 |
| AL13N | mounting as ext4 just hides the new btrfs-only stuff | 08:26 |
| AL13N | it's just, i wouldn't trust fsck with that kind of partition | 08:27 |
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| merlin1991 | lbt / tbr I need an idea how I can do a local build of stuff for chum 1.0.4.20, the sailfishos sdk doesn't work since it's way behind with the python stuff, and I have no idea how I'd bootstrap a new target for 1.0.4.20 | 08:40 |
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| coderus | merlin1991: ssh to mer vm and mb/mb2? | 08:41 |
| merlin1991 | coderus: see the bit about "sailfishos sdk doesn't work since it's way behind with the python stuff" | 08:42 |
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| coderus | no way to fix it for you? :) | 08:51 |
| merlin1991 | I'm currently reading through how obs builds his sailfishos 1.0.4.20 target | 08:53 |
| merlin1991 | and it seems like it just uses https://releases.jolla.com/releases/1.0.4.20/jolla/armv7hl/ as base repo | 08:53 |
| Stskeeps | osc build --help | 08:53 |
| Stskeeps | use mer platform sdk | 08:53 |
| merlin1991 | creating a copy of the sailfish target on the mer vm relocating the url to the newer repo and zypper dup should work aswell? | 08:56 |
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| merlin1991 | I'm asking because I'm running low on disk space ... | 08:57 |
| * tbr would hope it does | 08:58 | |
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| AL13N | this reminds me, i need to update my build chroot on-device too | 08:59 |
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| * merlin1991 just realized he already has the platform sdk installed from playing around with nemo | 09:05 | |
| merlin1991 | so I'll bump that to a current version and go the osc route | 09:05 |
| merlin1991 | tbr: I'm going to build python-requests for chum, I guess for the sake of completeness the spec should build python2 packages aswell? | 09:08 |
| tbr | merlin1991: uh, I'm not familiar with the python ecosystem | 09:12 |
| merlin1991 | well in order to use the library from python2 or python3 it has to be in different folders, my target is python3 but I guess it makes sense to have the buildprocess also spit out a python2-requests package that drops the file in the python2 library folder | 09:13 |
| tbr | does sailfish ship python2? | 09:14 |
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| merlin1991 | yes by default | 09:14 |
| merlin1991 | hm or not anymore | 09:15 |
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| merlin1991 | in 1.0.3.8 it was still there | 09:15 |
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| tbr | is it on the device? | 09:16 |
| merlin1991 | it is not on device anymore, but in the repo (package python) | 09:18 |
| merlin1991 | on 1.0.3.8 it was even on device | 09:18 |
| Stskeeps | for third party we'd prefer people to use python3 i guess | 09:18 |
| Stskeeps | thp would know more | 09:18 |
| merlin1991 | on the other hand as long as python2 is in the base image it doesn't hurt having a build for python2 aswell I guess? | 09:21 |
| tbr | I personally would prefer to get with the intention of jolla and go for python3 I guess | 09:24 |
| tbr | but this should be really indicated by Stskeeps (as he just did) and lbt and other sailors in their official capacity | 09:24 |
| merlin1991 | python3 it is then | 09:25 |
| coderus | how to show video file preview in qml? | 09:25 |
| coderus | cant find anything useful in multimedia things yet | 09:25 |
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| merlin1991 | I'm trying to follow https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Osc_Setup#Setup_osc_credentials but obviously https://api.pub.meego.com is outdated, what's the correct url nowadays? | 09:34 |
| coderus | irc channel a bit useless last time for me :D | 09:35 |
| coderus | but i'm helping many peoples :D | 09:35 |
| Stskeeps | merlin1991: osc -A https://api.merproject.org | 09:36 |
| merlin1991 | thanks, I'll update the setup osc page | 09:37 |
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| bentz | hello! | 09:40 |
| Stskeeps | hewwp | 09:40 |
| tbr | didn't we clean up the wiki? | 09:43 |
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| * lbt wonders why he's apparently one of the few people who can see the '[edit]' link ... maybe it's because I have a wide screen? | 09:46 | |
| merlin1991 | lbt regarding https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Osc_Setup#Getting_Access is Niels still an admin? | 09:47 |
| lbt | technically yes, but he doesn't have much time atm so no :) | 09:48 |
| tbr | also that's still COBS, where it was needed | 09:48 |
| tbr | with mer obs it's self service | 09:48 |
| tbr | your mer bugzilla account just works | 09:48 |
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| lbt | all done | 09:53 |
| merlin1991 | tbr: so no admin action nneded at all? | 09:53 |
| lbt | nope | 09:53 |
| merlin1991 | damn lbt I had that 90% finished | 09:53 |
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| lbt | sorry :) | 09:53 |
| merlin1991 | ah well you were faster :D | 09:53 |
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| lbt | with bigger pages the section editing reduces edit collision risk | 09:54 |
| lbt | and is more collaborative | 09:54 |
| merlin1991 | since I stated some lines above I'll do the edits I didn't think someone from in here would go and do the very same thing | 09:55 |
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| * fk_lx thinks that python2 and python3 should be equally supported, especially that most of enterprise world still uses python2 and some of the most popular frameworks like Twisted don't have python3 version | 10:07 | |
| fk_lx | python3 is still not a mainstream in python world | 10:07 |
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| Stskeeps | true | 10:08 |
| * fk_lx recalls in 2008 on first PyCon PL that the hot topic was "Migrating apps from Python 2 to Python 3" and the topic is still valid today, as not many people willing to transition | 10:08 | |
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| merlin1991 | meh: Files could not be expanded: service daemon error: 400 remote error: /usr/lib/obs/service//download_url No such file or directory | 10:09 |
| fk_lx | and there are still valid points why some people (well known in Python world) like Armin Ronacher are not enthusiastic about switch to Python 3: https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2011/12/7/thoughts-on-python3/ | 10:10 |
| fk_lx | so if my voice is worth anything I vote for equal support for Python 2 and Python 3 on Sailfish OS | 10:10 |
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| fk_lx | let's include as many developers as possible, not enforce transition from Python 2 to Python 3 as it is a topic for Python world to resolve | 10:11 |
| * fk_lx ends his rant | 10:12 | |
| merlin1991 | lbt: above "meh: ..." means that upload from remote url does not work | 10:14 |
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| Stskeeps | fk_lx: fwiw the reason of python3 is that python2 is not upgradeable in our stack without a world rebuild ;) so that's why python3, as python2 is used for system packages and build | 10:19 |
| Stskeeps | but now i need to jump in the metro | 10:19 |
| fk_lx | Stskeeps: well that also shows python2 still rules if it's used for system packages and build ;-) | 10:20 |
| Stskeeps | yes ;) | 10:20 |
| fk_lx | fk_lx: one another reason to treat it equally for developers wanting to create apps in it | 10:21 |
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| lbt | merlin1991: sorry - I didn't see that line when I was reading the backlog | 10:35 |
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| lbt | merlin1991: also I'm doing some maintenance work atm - I'll take a look in a while. You probably need some kind of src service - I've not done an osc build for a *loong* time now | 10:36 |
| merlin1991 | that happened on the webinterface when I tried to add the upstream tar.gz to sources via remote url | 10:36 |
| lbt | oh, right | 10:37 |
| lbt | yeah - I'm not sure I'm running the remote download service | 10:37 |
| lbt | we're updating the obs soon and I'll review what services we use | 10:37 |
| lbt | s/use/offer/ | 10:38 |
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| merlin1991 | Stskeeps: I tried "osc build armv8el" but that fails with "error: File /home/abuild/rpmbuild/SOURCES/requests-2.1.1.tar.gz: No such file or directory" | 11:02 |
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| merlin1991 | it looks like the SOURCES got copied to /var/tmp/build-root/home/abuild/rpmbuild/SOURCES/ but not to /var/tmp/build-root/target/home/abuild/rpmbuild/SOURCES/ | 11:09 |
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| IRC2312 | hi | 12:15 |
| IRC2312 | i had some wifi connection issues | 12:16 |
| IRC2312 | as a side effect i miss status icons in the settings for flightmode, wlan .. | 12:17 |
| IRC2312 | i can add favourites but they are only shortcuts and do not show the service status | 12:18 |
| IRC2312 | i think i removed those before manually | 12:19 |
| IRC2312 | any chance to get them back? | 12:19 |
| vesurivs | go to the respective settings and press them long, a menu opens and choose favorite setting or something and it appears in the main screen of settings | 12:22 |
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| IRC2312 | veserivs: i only get a shortcut to thr corresponding settings, it does not show me the status if wifi is active or not | 12:24 |
| phaeron | IRC2312: don't favorite the menu item , go inside the wlan setting and favorite the actual setting item | 12:24 |
| IRC2312 | good to know | 12:26 |
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| IRC2312 | many thanks phaeron | 12:26 |
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| * merlin1991 headdesks a lot | 12:34 | |
| merlin1991 | well I found out why my build doesn't work, v2.1.1 vs v2.2.1 | 12:34 |
| merlin1991 | and I learned a lot about the osc build system on the way :D | 12:35 |
| Yaniel | well, I made that settings mistake too in the beginning _/ | 12:35 |
| Yaniel | :/ | 12:35 |
| merlin1991 | I essentially traced the osc code through all calls to chroot sudo and whatnot untill I finally ended up in the innermost scratchbox and found out it's a version number typo | 12:35 |
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| merlin1991 | but hey, now I know exactly what 'osc build' does :D | 12:36 |
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| Yaniel | merlin1991: :D | 12:37 |
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| rusty88 | hey guys, just having some problems with deploying an application... the IDE says "Sailfish OS Emulator: Could not connect to Sailfish OS Emulator Virtual Machine" | 13:25 |
| rusty88 | i've checked everything and I don't get it why it's not deploying | 13:26 |
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| Acce | tried restarting and reconnecting the emulator? | 13:27 |
| rusty88 | yes and still nothing | 13:29 |
| rusty88 | ohh my bad... i started the emulator outside of the IDE | 13:30 |
| merlin1991 | tbr: I think I submitted my package to sailfishos:chum:1.0.4.20:testing, but it doesn't show up in https://build.merproject.org/project/requests?project=sailfishos%3Achum%3A1.0.4.20%3Atesting am I looking in the wrong place? | 13:33 |
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| tbr | merlin1991: that's some OBS weirdness that lbt would need to look into. It does show up in my work queue though. | 13:37 |
| merlin1991 | ah okay, so I guess we're good for now :) | 13:37 |
| tbr | It's building now: https://build.merproject.org/package/live_build_log?arch=armv8el&package=python3-requests&project=sailfishos%3Achum%3A1.0.4.20%3Atesting&repository=1.0.4.20_armv7hl | 13:38 |
| merlin1991 | how does the update workflow work on obs? or rather what do I need todo when upstream releases a new version to get that into chum? | 13:40 |
| tbr | it's available in testing now. I'd like to have feedback from someone who knows what this should be doing, like e.g. thp before I promote it to chum proper | 13:40 |
| tbr | you update your packaging and submit a new SR | 13:40 |
| tbr | at least that's how it works at the moment | 13:40 |
| merlin1991 | I'll pester thp on tuesday so he'll give his thumbs up :) | 13:41 |
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| merlin1991 | any idea why the version ended up as 2.2.1-10.7.1.jolla ? | 13:43 |
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| tbr | could it be that $release is some constant on OBS? because that's what seems to have been overwritten | 13:47 |
| thp | merlin1991: obs adding some release versioning there | 13:47 |
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| thp | merlin1991: as for the python3-requests packaging, i'm not sure whether the manual tarball extraction in the .spec file is necessary; %setup should do that for you, no? | 13:49 |
| merlin1991 | no because that includes cd into $packagename | 13:50 |
| merlin1991 | which fails because the source isn't inside a python3-requests folder | 13:50 |
| thp | there's some argument to %setup that can deal with that | 13:50 |
| carepack_ | hey guys | 13:51 |
| thp | merlin1991: http://rpm.org/max-rpm/s1-rpm-inside-macros.html -> %setup -n | 13:51 |
| merlin1991 | I tried to look the setup macro up in /var/lib ... but didn't find it in there | 13:51 |
| carepack_ | is a kickstart file for mako available? | 13:51 |
| Morpog | carepack, /msg sledges for more information | 13:51 |
| merlin1991 | okay I'll change that | 13:52 |
| carepack_ | already done-. but forgot to ask him. he's not available atm | 13:52 |
| carepack_ | thx Morpog | 13:53 |
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| Morpog | carepack_, afaik it's not released yet, but will be "soon" | 13:53 |
| thp | merlin1991: iirc the BuildRoot: specified in the .spec can also usually be removed, it will have some sane value if not specified | 13:53 |
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| thp | (also, there's a trailing ")" there which you might now want to have ;) | 13:53 |
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| * artemma discovered that harbour started showing to app store users "what's new" text that was supposed to be for app store testers only.. *sigh* is communication about coming changes against jolla religion or what? | 14:17 | |
| * artemma is happy he didn't have any testing account credentials listed there | 14:17 | |
| thp | artemma: wasn't there a separate field for "message to testers"? iirc the what's new is always shown to users | 14:19 |
| artemma | thp: there was. It was called "Recent changes" :) | 14:20 |
| artemma | now it is shown to users | 14:20 |
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| thp | artemma: "Recent changes - Optional info about updates" it says now in harbour. | 14:20 |
| thp | artemma: iirc it was always shown in the store client ui, but i could be mistaken | 14:21 |
| artemma | thp: I think it was always this way. It was never shown to users and there was a message that it was supposed to be used for communication to testers | 14:21 |
| artemma | I can try finding the reference if you like, but I clearly remember it was intended for it and I used it for it | 14:21 |
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| thp | in any case, the "message to testers only" field would be useful to have in some cases (test account as you mentioned) | 14:22 |
| Almindor | what's the right way to bind a C++/QObject class into the QML with SailfishApp? | 14:22 |
| artemma | and BTW, it also means that right now there is no way to pass testing account credentials to testers. Except this IRC channel as usual :) | 14:22 |
| Almindor | do I have to stop using the ::main call and do it all manually or is there a shortcut to bind something to a qml? | 14:22 |
| thp | Almindor: yeah, you have to stop using main and do it manually | 14:23 |
| artemma | Almindor: all the standard Qt ways work fine | 14:23 |
| Almindor | I see | 14:23 |
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| artemma | Almindor: https://github.com/amarchen/helloworld-pro-sailfish/blob/master/src/main.cpp | 14:23 |
| thp | Almindor: because at that point, you usually want to deal with lifecycle of your C++ objects and stuff | 14:23 |
| thp | Almindor: https://github.com/sailfish-sdk/libsailfishapp/blob/master/src/sailfishapp.cpp#L83 <- this is SailfishApp::main(), you can use it as a starting point for your customization | 14:24 |
| Almindor | ah cool | 14:24 |
| thp | (you can't use SailfishAppPriv, but your app name you should know, anyway :) | 14:24 |
| Almindor | yeah I had it done once in beta times | 14:24 |
| Almindor | I think it wasn't using SailfishApp yet back then | 14:24 |
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| thp | Almindor: sailfishapp + its ::main() is usually to hide away implementation details like booster usage that you shouldn't care about. there's less of a benefit in creating wrappers for setting context properties and stuff | 14:27 |
| thp | and ::main() in particular is just convenience for the generic case where you don't need/want to do anything special in c++ (at which case you can also use qml-only sailfish apps without a main binary using the sailfish-qml launcher) | 14:28 |
| Almindor | yeah | 14:28 |
| * artemma is trying to create an "updated, here are new features!" note on top of a page. In hierarchy it is next to and after Flickable, but.. somehow clickable Flickable areas remain clickable through banner.. | 14:31 | |
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| artemma | Apparently SilicaFlickable somehow embeds itself into the Page structure for flicking etc | 14:32 |
| artemma | but then how do I implement a temporary modal note banner on top of it? | 14:32 |
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| artemma | hmm, Labels inside flickable seem to be painted on top of the labels declared after it | 14:42 |
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| artemma | r-r-r, I don't want to use Dialog for an update notification. Modal note on top of main page should look better | 14:48 |
| artemma | yes, flickable seems to be painted on top of whatever.. | 14:51 |
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| Nightmare__ | you can draw a info item inside the flickable | 15:00 |
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| thp | tbr: https://build.merproject.org/request/show/642 looks good to me now, if it builds, should be good to promote it to the next stage | 15:13 |
| artemma | Nightmare__: I'd like it to be modal on top of flickable. Possibly I am doing something very wrong as flickable's labels seem to ignore hierarchy of painting somehow | 15:14 |
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| artemma | what is proper backgtound color to be used? Theme.secondary color seems to be for texts, etc, not for backgrounds | 15:14 |
| artemma | or is background supposed to be always just transparent? | 15:14 |
| thp | artemma: Theme.highlightColor maybe? | 15:15 |
| artemma | thp: "highlightColor - adds emphasis to active and selected areas of the UI".. hmm, maybe it means background indeed.. didn't come to my mind | 15:16 |
| artemma | thx, will try | 15:16 |
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| lbt | I think there's a BackgroundItem or something | 15:22 |
| * lbt goes back to his servers | 15:23 | |
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| merlin1991 | sings of a good sysadmin | 15:30 |
| merlin1991 | #1 claiming the servers are "his" | 15:30 |
| merlin1991 | or was that sings of a bofh? | 15:31 |
| * lbt also looks at who pays the hosting bills :) (me, Carsten, vgrade, Jolla, PlasmaActive) | 15:31 | |
| lbt | 'donations accepted' too :) | 15:33 |
| lbt | PSA: OBS is going to go down for a while | 15:34 |
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| artemma | lbt: background item is for clickable things I thought.. | 15:36 |
| lbt | artemma: check the src for it :) | 15:37 |
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| lbt | I'm not the guy to ask about what it is intended for | 15:37 |
| artemma | lbt: well docs told it's for backgrounds :) I think it's highlighted on tap. Sure I can override with MouseArea, but then I can also override just color for Rectangle :) | 15:38 |
| artemma | trying.. | 15:38 |
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| Morpog | artemma, there is also Theme.highlightBackgroundColor | 15:47 |
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| Morpog | and you could alter the theme colors with Qt.darker() and Qt.lighter() | 15:48 |
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| new299 | Hi guys, if I want to buy a phone to play around with sailfishos on and maybe do some development what's my best bet? | 16:32 |
| lbt | a Jolla | 16:32 |
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| new299 | lbt: thanks, didn't realise that was shipping now. Someone needs to update the Sailfish OS hardware list on the wikipedia page. | 16:36 |
| lbt | ! | 16:36 |
| lbt | http://shop.jolla.com | 16:37 |
| lbt | :) | 16:37 |
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| cos- | yesterday my phone dropped gsm network totally. i tried switching to airplane mode & back, but only full reboot helped. | 16:38 |
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| cos- | i was underground at local hacklab where gsm reception is poor when i noticed the issue | 16:39 |
| Acce | I had same problem few days ago | 16:39 |
| new299 | SailfishOS uses a stock Linux kernel and glibc? Has the full source for the Jolla been released? | 16:40 |
| lbt | new299: all open source is released | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | new299: yes, there's a source code request in the about product that works for getting all gpl/lgpl sources and a bit more | 16:42 |
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| new299 | Stskeeps: awesome! just bought a geeksphone revolution but have been put off by the fact that they've not relased the source. | 16:45 |
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| lbt | new299: there is a 'legal compliance' release - but more importantly most (and, in future, more) work on open code is done on open git repos | 16:48 |
| Stskeeps | new299: in practice, a large majority of sailfishos is open source, but, UI and parts of hardware adaptation is closed (not all is ours) | 16:48 |
| Stskeeps | but kernel source is there for sure | 16:48 |
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| new299 | Stskeeps: awesome, and is it compiled against BOINC or stock glibc? I understand it uses some parts of Android? | 16:50 |
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| Stskeeps | new299: it is a glibc system but leverages bionic based hardware adaptation through something called libhybris | 16:52 |
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| new299 | Stskeeps: that sounds like a neat solution to a problem I've generally seen with Android based stuff. I'll have to read up on libhybris | 16:55 |
| ryukafalz | As far as UI goes, think that'll be opened up in the future? | 16:57 |
| Stskeeps | it helps but also introduces new headaches | 16:57 |
| Stskeeps | ryukafalz: well, sailfish browser is now open source.. | 16:57 |
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| Stskeeps | https://together.jolla.com/question/3014/clarification-of-open-source-policy/#post-id-6768 | 16:57 |
| Stskeeps | that's practically the policy | 16:57 |
| Stskeeps | it isn't 'we won't ever open source the ui', but that we need to evaluate it carefully if we do want to open source something | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | in return, everything else is no questions asked, just open source it | 16:58 |
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| new299 | Stskeeps: I can guess that it would. I'm kind of suprised that Jolla, having spec'd the hardware couldn't get a completely natively glibc environment. | 16:59 |
| Morpog | new299, you need deep pockets for that | 17:00 |
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| lbt | can't spec a new GPU with drivers :) | 17:00 |
| new299 | Stskeeps: I'm guessing it's the OpenGL problem, where the chip vendor has supplied OpenGL drivers compiled against BOINC again... | 17:00 |
| lbt | yes, and that's whay libhybris is for | 17:01 |
| Stskeeps | new299: yup, it's almost impossible to get a x11 opengl driver that's sane today | 17:01 |
| Stskeeps | bionic, fwiw | 17:01 |
| Stskeeps | boinc is a bit cooler project ;) | 17:01 |
| * lbt prefers boinc | 17:01 | |
| new299 | Syskeeps: heh | 17:01 |
| Stskeeps | new299: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed8duAnlwHc | 17:01 |
| Stskeeps | talk of mine, explains libhybris, too | 17:01 |
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| ryukafalz | Stskeeps: That's a fair enough policy IMO - and it's far better than Google's policy for Android :P | 17:04 |
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| new299 | Stskeeps: thanks looks very interesting I'll check it out. | 17:05 |
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| ryukafalz | The only thing that concerns me is applications written with Sailfish QML components... since they're closed, such applications can effectively only run on Sailfish unless ported. Not sure how feasible a common component API would be though... | 17:08 |
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| Morpog | there are apps like gpodder which run on several platforms | 17:11 |
| Morpog | like gpodder 4.0 runs with qt5 on bb10 and sailfishos | 17:11 |
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| cos- | i'd love to see common components for QML, but they don't exist yet. that's why siilihai does not use silica. | 17:12 |
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| Morpog | cos-, they are working on that, qt quick controls it's called | 17:12 |
| cos- | i don't have the time to maintain two ui's as a hobby project, even if i'd love to have sailfish version | 17:12 |
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| Morpog | and glacier ui controls are based on top of them | 17:12 |
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| ryukafalz | On that note, I'm impressed with the example Android app for Qt Quick Controls | 17:19 |
| artemma | Well, actually most of Sailfish Controls are sourced under BSD licence. Just look at e.g. Page.qml sources in SDK | 17:19 |
| artemma | They won't work right away as some bits are closed (most notably Theme), but work to make them working fine is quite minimal I imagine | 17:20 |
| ryukafalz | artemma: I read that the QML parts were open source but the C++ parts are closed - http://lwn.net/Articles/561463/ | 17:20 |
| artemma | Cloning Sailfish apps on the other hand is a different story | 17:20 |
| * fk_lx wonders when the whole Sailfish OS source code will leak ;-) | 17:21 | |
| artemma | ryukafalz: exactly, but to my understanding 90% (if not 100%) of those closed C++ part is just Theme object | 17:21 |
| Shaan7 | well leaks will cause the ship have trouble with sailing , right? :P | 17:21 |
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| artemma | It also depends on the goal of open sourcing everything. If it's for detecting bugs and raising trust level, Jolla could craft some license "free for reading and compiling for yourself, but not allowed to redistribute even for free" | 17:22 |
| fk_lx | Shaan7: such leaks/piracy also has it's value - might boost popularity of the OS ;-) | 17:22 |
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| * artemma would actually love to borrow such license for himself. Thinking of starting Telegram client soon: open sourcing is important for raising trust to a secure messenger, but I am not fine with others creating clones the next second | 17:25 | |
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| cos- | Jolla is a company trying to make a profit, so i don't think it's smart to open source everything | 17:27 |
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| artemma | well, license to read the code doesn't mean the right to replicate and resell code. MIT and BSD are not the only licenses possible | 17:30 |
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| artemma | Creative Commons Non-Commercial license would already prohibit commercial reuse of Sailfish. Non-commercial reuse of Sailfish may or may not be a threat still. Lawyers could prohibit it too | 17:31 |
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| Stskeeps | artemma: licenses are lovely when you're dealing with markets where copyright matters | 17:39 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:39 |
| artemma | @Stskeeps: yes, sure. Thing that mostly keeps me surprised is Sailfish controls. You know, so small part is closed there, that anybody who really wants could clone them anyway. Possibly within a day | 17:41 |
| artemma | and I would guess technical complexity of opening mostly :) | 17:41 |
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| artemma | Possibly Theme object is added by a big(gish) library responsible for other things as well | 17:42 |
| Stskeeps | artemma: there's some magic in there but at least it doesn't hinder people, as the qml is what most people want to copy-paste into their apps or specialize | 17:44 |
| ryukafalz | artemma: I have mixed feelings about Telegram | 17:44 |
| artemma | ryukafalz: ? | 17:45 |
| * Stskeeps wonders which one of the devices on his table is making 'power is low' sounds.. | 17:45 | |
| ryukafalz | artemma: The client is open source, but the server is not, and it's not really "secure" unless you use secret chats... IMO security should be the default | 17:45 |
| lbt | PSA Mer OBS is back | 17:46 |
| artemma | ah.. ryukafalz: /me doesn't care about security in messenger that much. NSA will anyway see it all if it wants :) | 17:46 |
| ryukafalz | artemma: That said, a KDE-Telepathy dev is mentoring a GSoC student for a Telegram CM for Telepathy, which I'd imagine would plug nicely into Sailfish's messenger ;) | 17:46 |
| * artemma cares about messenger popularity and secure image will definitely help it | 17:46 | |
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| ryukafalz | artemma: Sure, but I feel like popularizing an app with "secure" marketing is dangerous if it isn't actually secure - especially if it's centralized because then you have platform lock-in | 17:47 |
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| artemma | ryukafalz: well, it is definitely way more secure against man in the middle attack. So "more secure" claim is true. It's just "not secure enough" from ppl who have access to servers | 17:48 |
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| Raim | artemma: and if they want to, they also get into your flat. so you leave your door unlocked? | 17:49 |
| artemma | and still if users insist and care they can use secret chats with end-2-end encryption | 17:49 |
| ryukafalz | artemma: More secure than XMPP with SSL enabled though? Because that has existed for years now. | 17:49 |
| artemma | Raim: in Finland where whole country is pretty much on a master-key system in apartments, we pretty much do it, yes :) | 17:49 |
| ryukafalz | It makes me think of a centralized XMPP server with a few fancy features basically | 17:50 |
| ryukafalz | (and no federation) | 17:50 |
| * artemma remembers reading an article about cryptography expert who studied apartment key systems and figured that any system with the master key could be broken within a couple of hours.. and they was told that keys industry knew that for ages :) | 17:50 | |
| artemma | ryukafalz: public telegram servers exist and are cared after. Show me the public XMPP servers that do the same? | 17:51 |
| artemma | popularity is about marketing anyway | 17:51 |
| fk_lx | artemma: rather sum of marketing and good product | 17:52 |
| artemma | fk_lx: totally. So Telegram has this good product bit that they seem to market well | 17:52 |
| ryukafalz | artemma: jabber.org, duck.co, yax.im... | 17:53 |
| artemma | ryukafalz: remind me again why none of my friends isn't using these? | 17:53 |
| * artemma admits that he didn't even care to check abt secure XMPP servers existence and.. that's the whole point | 17:54 | |
| ryukafalz | artemma: Lack of marketing. Which is a social rather than technical problem and IMO doesn't require a whole new (in some sense inferior) technical solutoin. | 17:55 |
| ryukafalz | *solution | 17:55 |
| artemma | yeah, that's interesting discussion on its own. As for me, I just like doing useful products for many-many people and potentially with commercial potential. Can't see much as attractive as Telegram client at the moment | 17:56 |
| ryukafalz | Fair enough - if you're interested more in popularity then there you go. Personally, I'm only interested in the best technical solutions. :P | 17:56 |
| artemma | ryukafalz: then you can jut continue using your favorite XMPP client for Sailfish | 17:57 |
| artemma | just* | 17:57 |
| ryukafalz | I just don't like insecure things being paraded around as completely secure because it takes attention away from things that do it better | 17:58 |
| tbr | merlin1991 / thp - it's in chum proper now | 17:58 |
| ryukafalz | artemma: XMPP isn't the ideal solution either, my point was just that Telegram doesn't do anything particularly better than XMPP ;) | 17:58 |
| artemma | okay that was a bit too much, I aplogize | 17:58 |
| carepack_ | do you know threema? telegram alternative. end to end encryption? | 17:59 |
| ryukafalz | proprietary | 17:59 |
| artemma | ryukafalz: I am motivated by popularity*usefulness. I really-really have hard time imagining XMPP client having more usefulness effect on more people | 17:59 |
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| carepack_ | yeah. some parts not open source | 17:59 |
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| artemma | it's way less about tech stuff, it's way more about simplicity, first time use and accounts | 18:01 |
| ryukafalz | artemma: Why not though? It's just a protocol, and with a well-designed client the experience could be very similar to Telegram/WhatsApp/etc. | 18:01 |
| Eztran | If Telegram actually did something useful and new, that'd be great, I'd encourage people to use it. It kinda doesn't, though, its only real upside is a recent popularity bubble. | 18:01 |
| artemma | but then again I am in the camp of believers that most of ppl don't really care much abt security, what they do care about is being surprised, so you just have to be very clear on what exactly is secure | 18:01 |
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| ryukafalz | artemma: My opinion on that is that those of us building the tools should be the ones caring about security - so whether the users know it or not, their stuff is secure by default, and they don't even need to care | 18:03 |
| ryukafalz | I'm not there yet, working towards a CS degree, but my programming skills aren't up to snuff at this point | 18:03 |
| artemma | ryukafalz: that means that Telegram client built by you would have secure chats by default. Okay | 18:03 |
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| squidd | What is secure these days? | 18:04 |
| Eztran | 'very little' being the obvious answer, but the arguments around this have been made back-and-forth forever, and are always forgotten when the next person brings it up. | 18:04 |
| Acce | my brain is still secure.. or so I have been taught to believe! | 18:05 |
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| ryukafalz | artemma: It would, but that's not an ideal solution either really... at that point the experience suffers somewhat because you can't sync chat history between devices | 18:05 |
| ryukafalz | ideally you should be able to do that without any server having plaintext logs | 18:05 |
| artemma | I always find the security talks funny as 99% security is pretty much impossible practically (even without thermo-rectal cryptoanalysis involved), but if you care about it a little, you'll be already more secure than most. Just find your middle point | 18:06 |
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| ryukafalz | the problem for me I guess is my middle point is still higher than anything out there as of now... because I care about security, but I also care about user experience | 18:07 |
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| ryukafalz | if I wanted total security the best thing I could get now is probably retroshare, but the user experience for that is terrible | 18:07 |
| ryukafalz | basically my only security requirement is "don't have plaintext logs sitting on some server somewhere that I have no control over" | 18:08 |
| artemma | me thinks total security is possible (ask Snowden), but is so damned hard, you won't go there anyway | 18:08 |
| ryukafalz | it's not possible unless you use a one-time pad, and even then you have to worry about the hardware you're using being compromised... "total security" isn't ;) | 18:10 |
| ryukafalz | OTP is information-theoretically secure though | 18:10 |
| ryukafalz | but infeasible for practical use | 18:10 |
| carepack_ | bitmessage? | 18:19 |
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| ryukafalz | carepack_: proof of work requirement makes it infeasible for mobile clients | 18:20 |
| ryukafalz | as well as any sort of instant messaging use case in general | 18:20 |
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| carepack_ | atm | 18:22 |
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| ryukafalz | sure, but lowering the proof of work requirement makes it more vulnerable to spam, which in that particular case has the potential to cripple the network | 18:25 |
| carepack_ | right | 18:25 |
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| ryukafalz | and lest I forget that I'm in #sailfishos and not a more security-oriented channel... http://youbroketheinternet.org/ is all about this kind of thing haha | 18:31 |
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| artemma | Anybody who knows gstreamer here? | 18:49 |
| * artemma wonders if controling LED power level is possible via some GStreamer element property | 18:49 | |
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| tbr | which led? | 18:49 |
| artemma | camera LED | 18:49 |
| tbr | no idea. try gst-inspect on the device. that tends to dig out interesting things | 18:50 |
| artemma | current flashlight app is pretty much gst-launch-0.10 droidcamsrc mode=mode-video video-torch=true name=d d.vfsrc ! droideglsink | 18:50 |
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| artemma | or something close to that | 18:50 |
| artemma | I wonder if controling power level is somehow possible for video-torch | 18:51 |
| artemma | though it's name seems to suggest power isn't controllable | 18:51 |
| artemma | its* | 18:51 |
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| coderus | artemma: on N9 it wasnt possible to control torch power | 19:06 |
| coderus | only small red led power | 19:06 |
| artemma | coderus: to my understanding there are standard APIs for it. At QtMultimedia level for sure, I was wondering abt GStreamer level, I don't know it well and googling didn't help | 19:07 |
| artemma | sure it's up to Jolla to actually implement these APIs or not | 19:07 |
| * artemma updates his project list at the blog just because wants to link to some projects from the app and.. it means projects actually need to have own pages :) | 19:09 | |
| coderus | artemma: n9 camera was perfectly controlled by V4L | 19:10 |
| artemma | never worked with it.. | 19:11 |
| artemma | googling suggests that V4L might be able to control LED power https://lwn.net/Articles/437906/ | 19:11 |
| artemma | though that's could so close to HW, that doesn't make sense in jolla times | 19:11 |
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| coderus | i tried using v4l on jolla with no success | 19:23 |
| coderus | maybe you luck ) | 19:23 |
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| avivbyo | Quick question about app designing , can i change the wallpaper of the app (only my app) to a specific one i choose? | 19:57 |
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| avivbyo | No one knows if it's possible ? Bummer. | 20:11 |
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| Nicd- | it's possible | 20:11 |
| Nicd- | at least in a bad and hacky way | 20:11 |
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| Nicd- | why do you want to change it? | 20:11 |
| avivbyo | Any hints ? ;) | 20:11 |
| avivbyo | For an idea of designing my app | 20:11 |
| avivbyo | Want to make it pretty much Unique | 20:12 |
| Nicd- | hopefully not at the cost of integration | 20:12 |
| Nicd- | anyway, at least you could put a big image to the background with the z property | 20:13 |
| avivbyo | okay | 20:13 |
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| artemma | avivbyo: If you mean changing the background, I guess you can just put whichever image you like to cover all of the system background | 20:24 |
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| corne | hello, i'm trying to make a simple app to record audio | 21:21 |
| corne | but i get a warning that there are no input devices available | 21:22 |
| corne | [W] QNullInputDevice::start:91 - using null input device, none available | 21:22 |
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| jake9xx_ | corne: emulator? | 21:27 |
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| jake9xx_ | artemma: your long wished feature is now in testing of the SDK :) We'll soon know if it passes smokes and then normal QA run -> out | 21:28 |
| artemma | jake9xx_: which one? :) | 21:28 |
| jake9xx_ | artemma: editor | 21:28 |
| * artemma wishes a lot :) | 21:28 | |
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| artemma | uhm.. editor? | 21:29 |
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| corne | jake9xx_: no the device | 21:30 |
| artemma | jake9xx_: ah, you mean disabling or sane .yaml editor probably. That's good | 21:30 |
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| artemma | nowadays thing that slows me down most in SDK is that I don't have a workflow for updating just QML (or just .so binary, but usually QML is more important). I am usually shipping several libs that expect to be present in particular directories, so deploying to /opt isn't super-good idea | 21:32 |
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| M4rtinK | that's what's nice about just using Python & QML :) | 21:38 |
| M4rtinK | I don't need to use the SDK at all | 21:38 |
| M4rtinK | and can just rsync all of my code :) | 21:39 |
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| Acce | well, you can rsync it even if you use the sdk :P | 21:39 |
| artemma | M4rtinK: it's more about putting proper files to proper locations in my case. I deploy precompiled binaries too (e.g. prebuilt gstreamer). I guess your code could use some c++ libs too and then you'll need to deploy them too | 21:40 |
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| artemma | yeah, I need to take time one day and create an rsync workflow. Shouldn't be too difficult to deploy to /opt or maybe sudo rsync to /usr | 21:40 |
| M4rtinK | well, I'll just install the corresponding package | 21:40 |
| artemma | would be good to have built-in SDK support for it though | 21:41 |
| M4rtinK | or worst case the compiled lib would be part of the source tree | 21:41 |
| M4rtinK | definitely | 21:41 |
| artemma | M4rtinK: I am into making stuff for harbour, so I need to put everything to the app folders | 21:41 |
| M4rtinK | artemma: during development I just rsync the whole source tree & run it with qmlscene (the Python backend is loaded using the PyOtherSide QML Plugin) | 21:43 |
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| artemma | M4rtinK: that means that your compiled binaries need to exist right in the source tree, doesn't it? | 21:43 |
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| M4rtinK | artemma: but yeah, but for packaging I have quite an ugly function that works around all the limitations sailfish-qml has compared to qmlscene | 21:44 |
| M4rtinK | artemma: yes, if there were any | 21:44 |
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| M4rtinK | artemma: but for example you don't need to add them to Git & only package stuff that Git knows about | 21:46 |
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| artemma | sure | 21:46 |
| M4rtinK | artemma: like this you can have basically anything in the source tree, but only the relevant stuff will get packaged | 21:46 |
| M4rtinK | just an idea :) | 21:46 |
| artemma | Hmm, I think it will be more sane to rsync from INSTALLS folders | 21:46 |
| lbt | +1 | 21:47 |
| artemma | that would let qmake perform its things while skipping slow RM packaging | 21:47 |
| M4rtinK | still, making a simple rsync script for the QML files only should be super easy | 21:47 |
| artemma | though rsyncing qmls from source tree is a way faster indeed | 21:47 |
| M4rtinK | just find where they end up on the device after deployment | 21:47 |
| M4rtinK | and rsnc them there from your source folder | 21:48 |
| M4rtinK | *rsync | 21:48 |
| artemma | maybe I shouldn't try packaging all into one workflow. I can deploy to /opt with one script and then rsync just qmls to the deployed location | 21:48 |
| artemma | yep | 21:48 |
| M4rtinK | AFAIK you can even run scripts using a shortcut in QtCreator | 21:48 |
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| * artemma is not sure if rsync can deploy to folders owned by nemo, maybe it can | 21:48 | |
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| artemma | yeah, rsyncing just qmls to /usr location should work | 21:49 |
| artemma | thanks, will try | 21:49 |
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| * lbt notes that "make install" should take no time at all if no src has changed | 21:49 | |
| * artemma hopes somebody could publish a blog post with diagrams, scripts and blackjack about his workflow ;) | 21:49 | |
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| M4rtinK | BTW, I actually do it the other way around :) | 21:49 |
| M4rtinK | I have a script on the device, that rsyncs the source & runs the program :) | 21:50 |
| M4rtinK | so when I want to debug, I just ssh to the device and run the script | 21:50 |
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| M4rtinK | but I am not using any sophisticated debugging tools though | 21:51 |
| * artemma hopes SDK will have a working debugger soon. Sorta hard to unit test parts that go deeper into system such as nemo permissions, lipstick shortcuts and gstreamer | 21:51 | |
| M4rtinK | it's nice if one has time to write tests :) | 21:52 |
| lbt | in gdb: set debug-file-directory /opt/sdk/harbour-XXXX/usr/lib/debug:/usr/lib/debug | 21:53 |
| artemma | it's nice if one has time to fix bugs. /me finds tests cheaper :) | 21:53 |
| lbt | then an rsync'ed install will work | 21:53 |
| artemma | but then it's not that much of bug fixing to me, I use TDD more as a design method, tests are more of a welcome side effect | 21:54 |
| * artemma doesn't know gdb and to be honest is not into learning. Hope to survive with tests until Jolla ppl make UI debugger work | 21:54 | |
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| lbt | hmm.. on my box the actual "mb2 deploy" step takes 7 seconds in the SDK VM ... the install takes 4s of that and visually there is some rpm validation which should not be happening which takes 2s of the 4s | 22:02 |
| lbt | SDK is running qmake though - it should know not to do that | 22:04 |
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| _r_ | hey | 22:46 |
| _r_ | where is sledges | 22:46 |
| _r_ | im pretty psyched about the oppertunity to try sailfish on my nexus 4 :) | 22:47 |
| Arkkis | in London I think | 22:47 |
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| _r_ | oic | 22:47 |
| _r_ | any idea when he is coming back | 22:48 |
| Arkkis | nope :) | 22:48 |
| _r_ | o ahaha | 22:48 |
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| artemma | If I define several subpackages in my .yaml/.spec, can I instruct Qt Creator to install only one/few of them? | 23:57 |
| artemma | I want to create a subpackage that would drop an extra config file for increased logging. That is to be deployed to users which have issues with my app, but obviously I don't want to deploy it during daily development | 23:58 |
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