| sledges | ? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| sledges | fingerterm just built | 00:00 |
| sledges | will kick lipstick one more time | 00:00 |
| sledges | fingers cross(compil)ed ;) | 00:00 |
| zbenjamin | i mean on your own machine | 00:01 |
| zbenjamin | because you are a nemo junkie ;) | 00:01 |
| sledges | :D | 00:01 |
| sledges | not on this machine | 00:01 |
| sledges | and not now | 00:01 |
| sledges | historically I ran into many problems building locally with `mb build` | 00:02 |
| sledges | there are so many ways to build in nemo :D | 00:02 |
| zbenjamin | the wrong version numbers suck | 00:03 |
| zbenjamin | if you use mb build | 00:03 |
| sledges | i've seen too many errors there :{ | 00:04 |
| sledges | so i go for obs build | 00:04 |
| sledges | or semi-local -- osc build | 00:04 |
| zbenjamin | still blocked? | 00:05 |
| sledges | sadly yes | 00:07 |
| sledges | weird | 00:07 |
| sledges | maybe some deps are rebuilding | 00:07 |
| zbenjamin | ok lets wait for tomorrow then | 00:09 |
| sledges | yup | 00:09 |
| sledges | as i said, the new day will dawn | 00:09 |
| sledges | and everyone will see what we've done :D | 00:09 |
| special | "service in progress" is a bit strange. | 00:09 |
| sledges | gNight for now :) | 00:09 |
| sledges | yes | 00:09 |
| sledges | needs a kick i reckon | 00:09 |
| sledges | (as Mer core is not rebuilding now) | 00:10 |
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| zbenjamin | night | 00:12 |
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| zbenjamin | i just found a new bug just by looking at journalctl | 00:12 |
| zbenjamin | great now i need to fix it | 00:12 |
| special | haha, yup | 00:13 |
| zbenjamin | anyway gnight now | 00:28 |
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| Morpog_N9___ | morning | 04:35 |
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| Morpog_N9___ | good job sledges, zbenjamin | 04:41 |
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| locusf | morning | 05:58 |
| sledges | hello | 06:03 |
| sledges | lipstick obs needs a good kick though.. | 06:03 |
| sledges | Stskeeps: maybe you? :) | 06:04 |
| sledges | thanks Morpog_N9___ | 06:04 |
| sledges | (link to it on #mer) | 06:09 |
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| ZogG_laptop | \o | 07:42 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | morning ZogG_laptop ! | 07:58 |
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| sono | i got an n900 from an irc pal because i never had one, and the idea of a linux based phone appeals, of course.. | 08:04 |
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| sono | thing is i tried the nemo image, and it doesn't seem ready for daily use, it's very slow.. | 08:04 |
| sono | i would like to go "bleeding edge", i do professional work on the AM335x, so yea.. | 08:04 |
| sono | would you say that nemo on the n900 is ready for daily use, if i do it right? | 08:05 |
| sono | or should i just use maemon and a chroot debian | 08:05 |
| sono | -n | 08:05 |
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| sono | the battery status indicator remains blank.. hmm | 08:08 |
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| sono | i don't mind that stuff is incomplete | 08:09 |
| sono | but everything is extremely sluggy.. | 08:09 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | sono: nemo is not for daily | 08:11 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | sono: we are doing a technologic transition | 08:12 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | Nemo might be (in the future) a good alternative to Maemo or MeeGo | 08:12 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | but right now, ... no | 08:12 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | you are free to test and contribute by talking to us and get more interested in nemo project tohugh | 08:13 |
| zbenjamin | morning | 08:13 |
| zbenjamin | sledges: did it build? | 08:13 |
| sono | thank you Sfiet_Konstantin =) | 08:14 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | sono: welcome in nemomobile channel :) | 08:15 |
| sono | thanks | 08:15 |
| sono | i shall set up the build system tonight | 08:15 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | alright | 08:15 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | so hacking already ? | 08:15 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :) | 08:15 |
| sono | i'm at work, doing work stuff | 08:15 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | understood | 08:16 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | I'm at school, doing school stuff | 08:16 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :D | 08:16 |
| sono | =D | 08:16 |
| sono | sleep well =p | 08:16 |
| zbenjamin | lets agree everyone is everywhere doing stuff ;) | 08:16 |
| faenil | morning | 08:16 |
| zbenjamin | faenil: morning | 08:17 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | hi boss, faenil | 08:17 |
| faenil | Sfiet_Konstantin, lol | 08:17 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :D | 08:17 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | didn't had time to contribute to nemo the latest days | 08:17 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :( | 08:18 |
| faenil | I decided, I'll start studying today (last words...) | 08:18 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | for an exam ? | 08:18 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | faenil: I have exam next week :( | 08:18 |
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| faenil | Sfiet_Konstantin, yeah, the huge exam I've been postponing this month :( | 08:21 |
| faenil | good luck with yours | 08:21 |
| faenil | ! | 08:21 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | oh | 08:21 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :( | 08:21 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | mine might be rather easy | 08:21 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | rather | 08:21 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | not easy | 08:21 |
| zbenjamin | faenil: patches are merged btw | 08:21 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :( | 08:21 |
| faenil | zbenjamin, yeah, awesome :) | 08:23 |
| faenil | Sfiet_Konstantin, eh :( | 08:24 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | faenil: good lock with yours too | 08:24 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | especially since it is huge | 08:24 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | better graduate and then no exams ! | 08:24 |
| zbenjamin | faenil: next steps will be: make desktop and apps rotate | 08:24 |
| faenil | zbenjamin, yeah | 08:25 |
| zbenjamin | faenil: is the desktop using components too? or a homegrown rotation handing? | 08:25 |
| faenil | Sfiet_Konstantin, yeah :( if I manage to pass this exam on Nov14th, I'll finish exams in Jan! \o/ | 08:25 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | cooool | 08:25 |
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| faenil | zbenjamin, it's using qtcomponents, but I don't know if the orientation is handled by components as well, as it is a special window in compositor iirc, where they do direct rendering, so it might be treated differently. w00t or special may say something more about this | 08:26 |
| faenil | Sfiet_Konstantin, yeah, cool indeed, I just have to start studying :( and study all days from morning to evening for more than 1 month.. | 08:27 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :( | 08:27 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | no boss in nemo :( | 08:27 |
| faenil | which is something I have never done :P (except projects of course, but that's much more fun) | 08:27 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | any compilers exams ? | 08:27 |
| faenil | passed that :) | 08:27 |
| faenil | but it's all theory, don't ask anything about gcc or anything ( unfortunately :( ) | 08:28 |
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| zbenjamin | sounds like "fun" ;) | 08:30 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :D | 08:30 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | indeed | 08:30 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | I just remember that compilers was faenil's nemesis | 08:30 |
| faenil | Sfiet_Konstantin, yeah, I love theory about that stuff, it's just we had the wrong professor... | 08:31 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ... | 08:31 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :( | 08:31 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | the professor is indeed the most important component of a course | 08:31 |
| faenil | anyway, I've been very lucky in that exam, the prof has been extremely kind to me, so, it's all history :) | 08:32 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :) | 08:32 |
| faenil | now, if only TextArea offered the line of the cursor position...I'd be happier :P | 08:33 |
| zbenjamin | i thought you have to study all day long ;) | 08:33 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | faenil: compute it | 08:34 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | QFontMetrics ? | 08:34 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | and +1 zbenjamin | 08:34 |
| faenil | zbenjamin, I thought as well :D | 08:34 |
| faenil | Sfiet_Konstantin, not that important to go down to c++ | 08:34 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | someone please /kick faenil | 08:34 |
| faenil | it's for the livecoding page I'm pushing to qqc Nemo :) | 08:34 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | faenil: it is the worst case scenario | 08:34 |
| zbenjamin | kickban for a month ;) | 08:35 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | I won't risk myself for QFontMetrics | 08:35 |
| faenil | ehehe | 08:35 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | faenil: ah, livecoding page ? | 08:35 |
| faenil | yep, to develop new components :) | 08:35 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | isn't there already some coude out there | 08:35 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | code | 08:35 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | like venemo's terminal ? | 08:35 |
| faenil | could be, haven't checked ;) wanted to do mine :) | 08:35 |
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| sono | you know how it is.. young guys like to do it by themselves a lot | 08:37 |
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| faenil | lol | 08:38 |
| sono | "hmm i don't quite like this clock app, let's make a better one" =) | 08:38 |
| sono | it's cute | 08:38 |
| faenil | lol | 08:39 |
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| faenil | sono, you know, livecoding is so short you'd spend more time reading someone else's code than writing yours ;) so, there's a point in what I do :) | 08:39 |
| sono | true | 08:39 |
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| faenil | you know what, no line counting for now :) you'll do that with your finger, lol | 08:45 |
| * zbenjamin hates sql | 08:45 | |
| * zbenjamin hates it even more if a query fails but does not return ANY error messages | 08:45 | |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | zbenjamin: then you will like sqlite | 08:46 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | and Qt SQL management | 08:46 |
| zbenjamin | i'm on psql + qt | 08:46 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :( | 08:47 |
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| zbenjamin | seriously, qsql can not give me the error message from the server? gngngngngngngn | 08:56 |
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| * sono doesn't do Qt since some years.. | 09:00 | |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | zbenjamin: QSqlQuery::lastError ? | 09:00 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | no ? | 09:00 |
| zbenjamin | its empty :/ | 09:01 |
| sono | can you try the same query in a more fully featured query editor? | 09:01 |
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| zbenjamin | yeah i found the error already pasting it in a editor, but that sucks ;) | 09:01 |
| sono | yea, that seems unusual. | 09:02 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | driver problem ? | 09:02 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | it sould work :( | 09:02 |
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| zbenjamin | ah i found it, when the code throws a exception it does not include driverText() | 09:04 |
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| * Morpog_N9 yawns | 09:18 | |
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| * sono loses grip of his n900, which flips into Morpog_N9's gaping mouth | 09:19 | |
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| * sono pulls the phone out | 09:27 | |
| sono | noooo | 09:27 |
| zbenjamin | this conversation starts to get weird | 09:29 |
| sono | no weirder than what i'm doing at work right now | 09:29 |
| * sono had to do some minor changes on a legacy product built with freescale codewarrior and renesas hew | 09:30 | |
| * sono now battles the build process, which is neither automated nor sane | 09:30 | |
| zbenjamin | yeah build systems .... | 09:31 |
| zbenjamin | when are they ever sane? | 09:31 |
| sono | i've seen some shit in my life but this is second worst | 09:31 |
| sono | worst was CE platform builder | 09:31 |
| zbenjamin | my next task is to rewrite the build process of a big product to cmake .... that will be __fun__ | 09:32 |
| sono | could be worse | 09:32 |
| sono | could be autotools | 09:32 |
| zbenjamin | haha true lol | 09:32 |
| zbenjamin | normally i prefer qmake, but that is just a bit too complex for qmake | 09:33 |
| sono | nobody ever got fired for using cmake | 09:33 |
| zbenjamin | lets hope it stays that way ;) ! | 09:33 |
| sono | this unholy conglomerate of proprietary IDEs and batch files on the other hand, ... did | 09:33 |
| sono | so now our team gets to maintain it | 09:34 |
| sono | \o/ | 09:34 |
| zbenjamin | ouchy | 09:34 |
| sono | i've built this thing before... | 09:34 |
| sono | once... | 09:35 |
| zbenjamin | once there was a time ... | 09:37 |
| zbenjamin | where buildsystems didn'T suck ;) | 09:37 |
| chriadam | qbs | 09:38 |
| zbenjamin | chriadam: is qbs ready for daily use? | 09:38 |
| chriadam | I don't know from personal experience, tbh, but there was a blogpost about it on blog.qt.digia.com a while back, saying that it was ready for primetime iirc | 09:39 |
| zbenjamin | yeah but that was the last time anyone talked about it, which usually is not a good thing ;) | 09:39 |
| chriadam | haha | 09:40 |
| zbenjamin | https://qt.gitorious.org/qt-labs/qbs/activities but its active | 09:40 |
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| aknight | qbs was mentioned quite a bit at devdays | 09:49 |
| aknight | there is definitely interest/engagement in it | 09:50 |
| aknight | i also learned that it's pronounced "cubes" :) | 09:51 |
| zbenjamin | aknight: yeah i didn't make it to devdays this year :/ | 09:52 |
| aknight | zbenjamin: well then you missed wiggly running on the surface rt :P | 09:53 |
| zbenjamin | hmpf ! | 09:53 |
| zbenjamin | how is state of the network module btw? | 09:53 |
| aknight | not sure, i haven' | 09:53 |
| aknight | t had time to check | 09:54 |
| zbenjamin | i would like to compile my quassel app without all that ugly jailbreaking | 09:54 |
| aknight | indeed | 09:54 |
| aknight | i inherited a surface rt now so i would like to see quassel running on it as well | 09:54 |
| zbenjamin | i can maybe send you the package | 09:54 |
| zbenjamin | but its my hacked version | 09:55 |
| aknight | using glacier components, perhaps? ;) | 09:55 |
| zbenjamin | nah the normal QtGui version | 09:55 |
| zbenjamin | sorry its Widgets now | 09:55 |
| aknight | sure, i just mean it would be nice to do a controls version eventually | 09:55 |
| zbenjamin | thats true | 09:56 |
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| faenil | line counting works \o/ | 10:08 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | faenil: go to study | 10:10 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :D | 10:10 |
| faenil | Sfiet_Konstantin, stfu :P :D | 10:10 |
| sono | 10:18 < faenil> I decided, I'll start studying today (last words...) | 10:12 |
| sono | technically, if he sits down at 23:58 and opens his notes, ... | 10:13 |
| faenil | sono, now you're talking | 10:15 |
| zbenjamin | haha lol | 10:15 |
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| faenil | please review: https://github.com/nemomobile/qtquickcontrols-nemo/pull/6 | 11:02 |
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| faenil | sledges, locusf ^ | 11:04 |
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| faenil | bbl, lesson :( | 11:29 |
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| sledges | zbenjamin: faenil, lipstick is now built with orientation | 12:35 |
| sledges | dup away :) | 12:35 |
| locusf | excellent | 12:35 |
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| locusf | gaah, black screen :/ | 12:39 |
| sledges | locusf: lipstick-colorful-home latest? | 12:39 |
| locusf | oh yeah not | 12:40 |
| sledges | :D | 12:40 |
| sledges | ? | 12:40 |
| sledges | not to what? ;) | 12:40 |
| locusf | not updated to latest :) | 12:41 |
| sledges | :D | 12:41 |
| sledges | good | 12:41 |
| sledges | whew ;P | 12:41 |
| locusf | has the qtcomponents rotation been fixed? | 12:42 |
| sledges | yes | 12:42 |
| sledges | fignerterm also | 12:42 |
| sledges | it should rotate | 12:42 |
| sledges | (if latest ver ;D) | 12:42 |
| sledges | and iÄf ...-sensorfw plugin installed manually | 12:42 |
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| locusf | ah | 12:43 |
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| sledges | locusf: does it rotate? | 13:08 |
| sledges | i wanna tweet :D | 13:08 |
| zbenjamin | i want to know too ;) | 13:10 |
| zbenjamin | desktop does not rotate , only fingerterm will atm | 13:10 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | faenil: why did you called a button "butt" ? | 13:13 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | seriously, it don't sound good :D | 13:13 |
| sono | haha. | 13:13 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | faenil: talking about https://github.com/nemomobile/qtquickcontrols-nemo/pull/6/files#diff-3b3f98e936447dc166eab5c4a3a85d7fR24 | 13:13 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :D | 13:14 |
| sono | butt.pressed() | 13:14 |
| sledges | xD and it all LGTM :D | 13:14 |
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| locusf | sledges: it doesn't or I don't know how to activate the rotation? | 13:21 |
| sledges | (locusf the fingerterm that is) | 13:22 |
| locusf | it doesn't rotate | 13:22 |
| sledges | zbenjamin: ^ | 13:23 |
| zbenjamin | hm you also updated fingerterm? | 13:23 |
| locusf | yes | 13:23 |
| zbenjamin | if you start lipstick with debug enabled it should print messages about rotation | 13:23 |
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| sledges | locusf: zypper se (inlove) | 13:24 |
| sledges | locusf: zypper se qt5-qtsensors-plugin-sensorfw | 13:24 |
| sledges | :D | 13:24 |
| locusf | wtf | 13:24 |
| sledges | is it installed and are you inlove with nemo? :D | 13:24 |
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| locusf | it wasn't | 13:26 |
| locusf | is now | 13:26 |
| sledges | ah | 13:26 |
| sledges | should work now | 13:27 |
| locusf | it does | 13:27 |
| sledges | :D | 13:27 |
| locusf | beautiful | 13:27 |
| sledges | rotates? | 13:27 |
| zbenjamin | yay ;D | 13:27 |
| locusf | yes | 13:27 |
| sledges | perrrfect! | 13:27 |
| sledges | :D | 13:27 |
| locusf | calendar also rotated | 13:28 |
| zbenjamin | huh? | 13:28 |
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| locusf | or started as landscape | 13:28 |
| zbenjamin | all apps will now start in the orientation of the phone | 13:28 |
| locusf | nice | 13:28 |
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| zbenjamin | correction: all apps using qt-components do | 13:29 |
| locusf | yeah | 13:29 |
| locusf | glacier components gallery doesn't | 13:29 |
| locusf | always landscape, but no biggie | 13:29 |
| zbenjamin | could be locked | 13:29 |
| zbenjamin | as dialer also doesn't do it | 13:30 |
| sledges | qqc does not have rotation support | 13:30 |
| sledges | we'll have to come up with something | 13:30 |
| sledges | iirc | 13:30 |
| locusf | ok | 13:30 |
| zbenjamin | faenil does not like my idea of reusing the qtcomponents rotation code | 13:31 |
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| sledges | have we looked at QtForTizen qqc rotation code if any? | 13:39 |
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| zbenjamin | i did not but good idea | 13:44 |
| sledges | it is: http://www.merproject.org/logs/%23nemomobile/%23nemomobile.2013-10-10.log.html#t2013-10-10T13:11:45 | 13:45 |
| sledges | :) | 13:45 |
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| sledges | zbenjamin: haha https://twitter.com/faenil/status/388662338087579648 | 13:59 |
| sledges | a voice from above :D | 13:59 |
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| zbenjamin | sledges: lol , good to know ;) | 14:08 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | lol | 14:15 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | nice :) | 14:15 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | faenil YOU SHOULD WORK | 14:15 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | don't even tweet !!! | 14:15 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :D | 14:15 |
| faenil | bhuahuaha | 14:24 |
| faenil | back o/ | 14:24 |
| sledges | :D | 14:24 |
| faenil | you shouldn't post interesting stuff on log while I'm at lesson, or my 6th sense forces me to refresh the page :P | 14:24 |
| sledges | telepethy eh :)) | 14:25 |
| faenil | :D | 14:25 |
| faenil | sledges, but yeah I have been wanting to reply to chat stuff from twitter for a long time :D | 14:25 |
| sledges | :)) | 14:25 |
| * faenil prepares new PR | 14:26 | |
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| sledges | 8)~ | 14:28 |
| faenil | https://github.com/nemomobile/qtquickcontrols-nemo/pull/7 | 14:32 |
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| zbenjamin | faenil: you got orientation handling already for qqc's ? are you studying at all? | 14:34 |
| faenil | zbenjamin, nope | 14:34 |
| faenil | (not studying, lol) | 14:34 |
| zbenjamin | thought so ;) | 14:35 |
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| alterego | Hmmm | 14:38 |
| faenil | alterego, sup | 14:40 |
| * faenil merges | 14:43 | |
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| sledges | shall I tag it faenil ? | 14:46 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | faenil: please, correct butt | 14:48 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | call it button or anything else | 14:48 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | anything but butt | 14:48 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :D | 14:48 |
| sledges | why so sensitive Sfiet_Konstantin ? ;) | 14:48 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :P | 14:48 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | my butt is sensitive | 14:48 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | sorry it is friday | 14:48 |
| locusf | ... | 14:48 |
| sledges | variables are often abbreviated, and button is one of the most frequent variables these days :D | 14:49 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | at least in QML you have scopes | 14:49 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | or you can call it root or container | 14:49 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | I'm quite against abbreviated stuff | 14:49 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | only tolerated stuff is really explicit stuff like qml or db | 14:50 |
| sledges | fair play | 14:50 |
| faenil | Sfiet_Konstantin, ahahah lol | 14:50 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | but usually, my variable names are rather long | 14:50 |
| sledges | x) still friday Sfiet_Konstantin ? :D | 14:50 |
| faenil | sledges, I hope another PR will come soonish, so no need to tag right now I think | 14:50 |
| zbenjamin | locusf: i'm also really worried about that butt conversation ;) | 14:50 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | but it is not really about a defect here, more about conventions | 14:50 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | no abbreviated stuff plz people :) | 14:50 |
| sledges | :D | 14:50 |
| sledges | faenil: ok | 14:51 |
| faenil | Sfiet_Konstantin, you shouln't exploit scope in QML :P | 14:51 |
| sledges | i got my guns loaded | 14:51 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | faenil: why not ? | 14:51 |
| sledges | was quite trigger happy yesterday :)) | 14:51 |
| zbenjamin | Sfiet_Konstantin: abbreviated stuff? like plz? | 14:51 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | zbenjamin: in variable names | 14:51 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :D | 14:51 |
| sledges | :D | 14:51 |
| faenil | Sfiet_Konstantin, it's on all guidelines, avoid it unless you're in the same item | 14:51 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | well played zbenjamin | 14:51 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | well played :D | 14:51 |
| zbenjamin | ;) | 14:51 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | faenil: ok :) | 14:51 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | np | 14:51 |
| faenil | :) | 14:51 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | but you have to avoid abbreviated stuff too :) | 14:52 |
| NeeDforKill__ | hey guys | 14:52 |
| sledges | hya | 14:52 |
| faenil | Sfiet_Konstantin, deal :D | 14:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | hey NeeDforKill__ | 14:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | faenil: : | 14:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :) | 14:52 |
| faenil | Sfiet_Konstantin, I hate abbreviated names myself :/ | 14:52 |
| NeeDforKill__ | what's new? | 14:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | NeeDforKill__: my headache ? | 14:52 |
| faenil | Sfiet_Konstantin, I like nameWhichExplainsWhatThisVarIsFor more | 14:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | faenil: +1 | 14:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | me too :) | 14:52 |
| faenil | back to page :P | 14:53 |
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| faenil | for those who want to help, let's research how toolbar animations work in other toolkits (qt-components, ubuntu touch, etc9 | 14:57 |
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| faenil | so many people...I'm amazed :P | 15:06 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | faenil: lol | 15:07 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | leave me alone | 15:07 |
| locusf | where, here? | 15:07 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :D | 15:07 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | I'm hacking ! :D | 15:08 |
| faenil | Sfiet_Konstantin, you're hacking the right thing :P | 15:08 |
| faenil | wrong* sorry | 15:08 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | faenil: :D | 15:08 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | not sure that it is wrong | 15:08 |
| faenil | are you doing the trumpet? | 15:08 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | no | 15:09 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | taking a break from the trumpet | 15:09 |
| faenil | then it's the wrong thing ;) | 15:09 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | doing something that is as painful | 15:09 |
| locusf | I'm doing the trumpet, somewhat | 15:09 |
| faenil | locusf, great :) | 15:09 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | locusf: please do it, I can take your code afterwards | 15:09 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | or if you don't want, I can keep doing it :) | 15:09 |
| locusf | Sfiet_Konstantin: https://github.com/locusf/qtquickcontrols-nemo/commit/60da79612423befb7b168e5158ca88a2365ab6b8 | 15:10 |
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| locusf | hackish stuff | 15:10 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | locusf: did you sent it to PR ? | 15:10 |
| * Morpog_PC thinks deep inside you guys all love that trumpet :D | 15:10 | |
| locusf | it is in PR now | 15:10 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | IIRC I took your code as an inspiration | 15:10 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | Morpog_PC: everybody loves the trumpet :/ | 15:10 |
| locusf | damn trumpet | 15:11 |
| faenil | I think it's not a good idea because of the space it takes, but we agreed :) | 15:11 |
| faenil | alterego, ping | 15:12 |
| alterego | Yessir? | 15:12 |
| sledges | fast | 15:12 |
| faenil | alterego, what are the cons of having a toolbar in each page | 15:13 |
| faenil | instead of having it in appwindow and animating its content | 15:13 |
| faenil | because having one for each page suits QQC best | 15:13 |
| alterego | Well, it's really just page loading time. | 15:13 |
| alterego | And even that is probably not noticeable. | 15:14 |
| faenil | but, you're loading the content in any case | 15:14 |
| faenil | so what's the perf increase, not loading the container? :/ | 15:14 |
| faenil | sledges, good boy :D | 15:15 |
| sledges | ay? | 15:15 |
| alterego | Well, I suppose there are three ways, 1) Do like Qt Components did, and use one toolbar and read pages. 2) Have a toolbar per page instantiated by the page when it's loaded. 3) Have a global toolbar that is assigned to the page when it's selected. | 15:15 |
| alterego | From my perspective, it's more about how you plan on doing transitions between pages and potentially applications. | 15:15 |
| faenil | yeah... | 15:15 |
| alterego | Performance isn't going to be a massive concern. | 15:15 |
| locusf | Morpog_PC: qwazix: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/286182/slider-hug.png | 15:15 |
| faenil | alterego, I was thinking about letting user modify transitions | 15:16 |
| locusf | Morpog_PC: qwazix: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/286182/slider-stretch-hug.png | 15:16 |
| zbenjamin | faenil: in ubuntu touch the toolbar slides out of the window, but its a own toolbar in every window | 15:16 |
| faenil | this is already possible in QQC for what concerns page transition | 15:16 |
| zbenjamin | you can slide it in with a swipe up | 15:16 |
| sono | week.end(); | 15:16 |
| sono | \o/ | 15:16 |
| faenil | sono, ahaha | 15:16 |
| alterego | faenil: I quite like how Windows Phone does it, they provide a set of tincan transitions and the developer can choose whatever one, or have them executed randomlu. | 15:16 |
| sono | faenil: butt.push()! | 15:16 |
| alterego | ~randomly. | 15:16 |
| faenil | zbenjamin, yes of course each page has its own toolbar...what about the component itself though | 15:17 |
| faenil | sono, o/ | 15:17 |
| sono | \o/ | 15:17 |
| alterego | Might be a good idea to add transition theming support, at least that's what I was thinking of doing with something I'm working on anyway :) | 15:17 |
| zbenjamin | faenil: what do you mean? | 15:17 |
| faenil | alterego, yep | 15:17 |
| sono | even thought one might wonder how i managed to push with both arms up. | 15:17 |
| sono | afk, laters =) | 15:17 |
| faenil | alterego, QQC already provide page transitioning feature | 15:17 |
| faenil | alterego, code from silica I'm using for Page provides orientation transitioning handling | 15:17 |
| faenil | toolbar is the only missing :) | 15:18 |
| faenil | though it's automatic if there's one toolbar each page | 15:18 |
| alterego | Just do it per page for now. | 15:18 |
| alterego | We can always review the pros & cons. | 15:18 |
| zbenjamin | faenil: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-13.04/qml/ui-toolkit/qml-ubuntu-components0-page.html | 15:18 |
| alterego | I'm sure there are more important things to do that worry about that for now ;) | 15:18 |
| alterego | ~than .. | 15:18 |
| faenil | yeah, can't see real reason why we would not want that, except if we want a bar which stays still, like bb10 in some apps | 15:19 |
| faenil | and page transitions | 15:19 |
| alterego | That can be replicated with transitions. | 15:19 |
| alterego | Keep toolbar anchored to window, and fade out then fade in new toolbar. Or whatever. | 15:19 |
| alterego | It's pretty arbitrary when you think about it :) | 15:19 |
| faenil | alterego, have to check if that's the case for qqc transitions in stackview | 15:19 |
| Morpog_PC | locusf, looking good so far | 15:20 |
| Morpog_PC | font is wrong or? | 15:20 |
| Morpog_PC | and not really centered? | 15:20 |
| locusf | Morpog_PC: yup, known issue | 15:20 |
| faenil | zbenjamin, ToolBarActions could just be the content of the toolbar, not the toolbar itself | 15:21 |
| Morpog_PC | where is the finger on 2nd pic? | 15:21 |
| locusf | I don't remember :D | 15:21 |
| Morpog_PC | on the end of blue rectangle, or? | 15:21 |
| zbenjamin | faenil: as you can see the toolbar is part of the page, there is no Toolbar component imho | 15:21 |
| zbenjamin | err afaik | 15:21 |
| locusf | Morpog_PC: pretty much yeah | 15:21 |
| locusf | Morpog_PC: I can't see the value if thats what you are wondering | 15:22 |
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| faenil | zbenjamin, maybe you haven't looked deep enough :) https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/saucy/view/head:/modules/Ubuntu/Components/MainView.qml#L287 | 15:22 |
| zbenjamin | grmbl ok | 15:23 |
| faenil | zbenjamin, :) so ubuntu touch has only one toolbar as well, and pages just replace its content | 15:23 |
| zbenjamin | looks like it | 15:24 |
| Morpog_PC | you can't see the value?? | 15:24 |
| alterego | They probably copied a lot from qt-components ;) | 15:25 |
| faenil | alterego, just what I was thinking | 15:25 |
| faenil | even if code is much more readable | 15:25 |
| faenil | and less messy : | 15:25 |
| faenil | :P | 15:25 |
| alterego | They probably just cleaned it a bit :P | 15:26 |
| faenil | :) anyway... | 15:26 |
| faenil | not sure if it's worth having an orientation transition at page level like silica | 15:26 |
| faenil | maybe appwindow level | 15:27 |
| alterego | Anyone here used git-pkg ? | 15:29 |
| alterego | nvm, I'll just see if I can break it :) | 15:30 |
| faenil | alterego, to do what | 15:31 |
| alterego | I was just reading the wrong instructions, found some better ones now ;) | 15:31 |
| faenil | :) | 15:32 |
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| faenil | guys, I was thinking that if we use the Theme element we can't provide compatibility with standard QQC apps :( | 15:43 |
| faenil | as they will have to import QQC.Styles.Nemo | 15:43 |
| faenil | not a big problem | 15:44 |
| faenil | they just have to install nemo components | 15:45 |
| faenil | then they can use default QQC apps, but with Nemo styling | 15:45 |
| faenil | if they don't want/havetime to port them to Nemo QQC | 15:45 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | faenil: indeed. Nemo theming should be used with Nemo IMO | 15:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | we need to extend QQC, since we have our specific stuff | 15:53 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | it eases ports but do not dispense from doing ports | 15:53 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | right now QQC is not mature enough so we cannot guarantee anything anyway | 15:53 |
| faenil | Sfiet_Konstantin, it is important to have QQC apps running on Nemo Styling without needing to port though | 15:53 |
| faenil | yea, that's the problem | 15:53 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | faenil: wait for Qt 5.3 ? | 15:53 |
| faenil | holy f, :D | 15:53 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | and cooperate with upstream | 15:54 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | Qt 5.3 is in just 6 month | 15:54 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | it is nothing | 15:54 |
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| zbenjamin | i hate javascript ....it works for small code pieces here and there | 16:00 |
| zbenjamin | but for apps in the browser ... argh | 16:00 |
| faenil | :) | 16:01 |
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| faenil | I feel guilty when I have to do stuff like | 16:07 |
| faenil | var backgroundItem = data[1].parent.parent | 16:07 |
| faenil | it's like "I want to get there, I know I shouldn't, but this is JS and I want to do it" xD | 16:07 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | MOAAAR Pull requests | 16:18 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | faenil: don't feel guilty, be ashamed | 16:18 |
| faenil | :) | 16:18 |
| faenil | I'm having such fun hacking to get this stuff done :D | 16:19 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :D | 16:21 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | just pushed 4 PR in the same time :D | 16:21 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | (not related to components though) | 16:22 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | (sorry) | 16:22 |
| faenil | (fu :P) | 16:22 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | still related to nemo :) | 16:23 |
| faenil | :) | 16:24 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | anyway | 16:24 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | gtg bbl | 16:24 |
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| faenil | orientation working \o/ | 17:38 |
| NeeDforKill__ | gratz | 17:40 |
| NeeDforKill__ | =))) | 17:40 |
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| locusf | completely working? | 17:40 |
| faenil | locusf, completely as in? :D | 17:43 |
| locusf | faenil: lipstick rotation? | 17:43 |
| faenil | I'm working on qqc glacier controls.. | 17:43 |
| locusf | *orientation | 17:43 |
| faenil | -.- | 17:43 |
| locusf | ah | 17:43 |
| locusf | well good nevertheless :) | 17:43 |
| faenil | do we need rotation in lipstick? the homescreen will be rewritten anyway | 17:44 |
| faenil | using qqc | 17:44 |
| locusf | well not really then | 17:44 |
| faenil | so it doesn't make much sense making it rotate now..does it | 17:44 |
| locusf | nope | 17:44 |
| faenil | gtg, guess I will have to wait for tomorrow to publish it :( | 17:50 |
| faenil | bbl | 17:50 |
| qwazix | backlogs become longer by the day! yay! | 18:04 |
| qwazix | <faenil> [22:48:19] we can avoid that by not allowing levels when in landscape | 18:04 |
| qwazix | or we can auto-hide the header | 18:04 |
| qwazix | and how did you remove the button hack? | 18:04 |
| qwazix | and icon limit: noted | 18:04 |
| qwazix | and locusf trumpet looks good to me. Still using image? If yes we should find a way to be able to change the color programmatically | 18:05 |
| locusf | yes | 18:08 |
| qwazix | Morpog_PC, do you think we can fit arrows in the vkb (at least < >) or should we put them in the selection magnifier like BB10? | 18:08 |
| sandy_locke | qwazix, screenshot for that ^ ? | 18:15 |
| sandy_locke | the bb10 magnifier | 18:16 |
| qwazix | sandy_locke, saw your mail, I had just forgotten about it, just a sec | 18:16 |
| sandy_locke | ok | 18:16 |
| sandy_locke | np ;) | 18:16 |
| qwazix | I like the progress bar, it needs a bit of polish but we can go on with that. | 18:17 |
| sandy_locke | thx :) | 18:17 |
| sandy_locke | yeah it's far from production quality | 18:17 |
| qwazix | The switch is not bad, it looks a bit like the one I had drafted at first, but I'm not sure it is a substantial improvement over what we already specced, so let's not do duplicate work. | 18:18 |
| sandy_locke | ok, it was just a thought mocked up quickly | 18:19 |
| sandy_locke | what's the current spec ? the one from the repo ? | 18:19 |
| qwazix | sandy_locke, http://play.qwazix.com/shared/IMG_00000015.png | 18:19 |
| qwazix | yep, repo | 18:20 |
| qwazix | and http://play.qwazix.com/shared/IMG_00000015.png | 18:20 |
| qwazix | oops http://play.qwazix.com/shared/IMG_00000011.png | 18:20 |
| sandy_locke | qwazix, yeah, like those kind of magnifier, but be careful to put it above the text to be selected if implemented | 18:20 |
| qwazix | when you tap the circle, it works like arrows if you tap the right half it moves one letter to the right | 18:21 |
| sandy_locke | I'm angry agains apple and nokia to have put the magnifier just on top of the text | 18:21 |
| qwazix | very nice feature | 18:21 |
| sandy_locke | mmh, clever, so the magnifier stays even if you release the touch ? | 18:21 |
| qwazix | yep, and you can see it's not really a magnifier | 18:22 |
| qwazix | it's just a handle to move the cursor | 18:22 |
| qwazix | I find it much easier to use than nokia/apple solution | 18:22 |
| sandy_locke | yeah seems like it | 18:23 |
| sandy_locke | you own a bb ? | 18:23 |
| sandy_locke | you tried ? | 18:23 |
| qwazix | but the nudging feature is killer, all those times you are just off by a letter... | 18:23 |
| qwazix | yeah, using a Z10 as daily phone | 18:23 |
| sandy_locke | mmh, would have tried it if it weren't from bb (the one who spied on their bbm in london few years ago) | 18:24 |
| sandy_locke | but now bb is dead, though the Z10 seem like a nice little device ;) | 18:24 |
| sandy_locke | like their UI, but never experienced it | 18:25 |
| sandy_locke | anyway, you plan on adding this kind of "magnifier" into nemo ? | 18:25 |
| qwazix | I don't like their UI much, it's a bit confusing and it looks last-gen design. | 18:25 |
| sandy_locke | seriously ? | 18:25 |
| sandy_locke | seemed to me that they had quite advanced swipe interface and nice presentation | 18:26 |
| qwazix | yeah, too many menus all over the place, and their notifications system is too complicated | 18:26 |
| qwazix | http://play.qwazix.com/grog/?p=296 | 18:26 |
| qwazix | BUT, it is a very very productive device | 18:26 |
| qwazix | you can do almost everything, without being stupidly limited by the system. Real multitasking, file system access | 18:27 |
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| sandy_locke | qwazix, hmm interesting article | 18:32 |
| sandy_locke | though some of those quircks can be found in harmattan | 18:32 |
| sandy_locke | (i.e: the disappearing back button, and for me the swipe down keyboard doesn't work^^) | 18:33 |
| qwazix | harmattan is much simpler, and a bit more limited too | 18:33 |
| sandy_locke | yes but simpler is what I like about this os | 18:33 |
| qwazix | but it compensates by being more open | 18:33 |
| qwazix | harmattan is more open even with aegis turned on | 18:34 |
| sandy_locke | although it's true that without all the community behind it and it's openness it would not be a poweruser phone | 18:34 |
| Morpog_Mobile | qwazix: i would prefer it in magnifier selection, as on localized vkb's it would get too narrow. So being more consistent if it's not only on some vkb | 18:34 |
| sandy_locke | Morpog_Mobile, qwazix, and did you see the arrow stick from webos community edition ? | 18:35 |
| qwazix | sandy_locke, no, screeny? | 18:35 |
| sandy_locke | qwazix, just a sec | 18:35 |
| Morpog_Mobile | Same | 18:35 |
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| sandy_locke | qwazix, Morpog_Mobile, no way to find it. I could launch my touchpad if it still had batteries ^^ I'll make a sshot someday | 18:48 |
| sandy_locke | but essentially it's a round stick that stands on the top right corner of the vkb | 18:49 |
| sandy_locke | and it behaves like a physical stick | 18:49 |
| qwazix | sandy_locke, sounds nice | 18:50 |
| sandy_locke | just put your finger on it, then move slightly to the right and the cursor moves to the right, and the farther you go with your finger, the fastest the cursor moves | 18:51 |
| sandy_locke | the guys who did that made an excellent job, and this stick is flawless, and extremely accurate | 18:51 |
| sandy_locke | I miss it ! | 18:51 |
| qwazix | sandy_locke, Morpog_Mobile, idk if it is feasible but we could implement swipe on spacebar to nudge cursor left - right | 18:52 |
| sandy_locke | although I'm sure there's a way to make it less "monolithic" (because it takes from what really exists physically, the stick, so it's just an adaptation for screens) | 18:52 |
| sandy_locke | qwazix, but you lose up down then | 18:53 |
| sandy_locke | and left right w/o up down is damn frustrating ! | 18:53 |
| sandy_locke | it feels hal baked | 18:53 |
| sandy_locke | *half | 18:53 |
| qwazix | maybe up/down too, if the swipe starts on space bar and ends anywhere | 18:54 |
| sandy_locke | qwazix, yes I can see that: to make it feel right we must also find a way to have visual&haptic feedbacks | 18:55 |
| qwazix | :nod: | 18:55 |
| sandy_locke | visual means that we see the space bar "roll" slightly in the way of the swipe | 18:55 |
| sandy_locke | but yes, it's the best way to have cursor control without requiring more space | 18:57 |
| qwazix | or design a small compass-like icon on the space bar | 18:58 |
| sandy_locke | means a spacebar designed in two parts? or is it just for the visual feedback ? | 18:59 |
| sandy_locke | icon seems good for visual feedback, although it adds clutter | 19:00 |
| qwazix | just for the visual feedback, and with an opacity of say .2 just to give a hint | 19:05 |
| qwazix | (or we could use the accelerometer and tap on the sides like flipper :P) | 19:06 |
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| Morpog_Mobile | Or long press on spacebar activates an overlayed cursorblock | 19:11 |
| faenil | qwazix, https://github.com/nemomobile/qtquickcontrols-nemo/commit/8a8af5da25acecc617bcfbb149dc84270015c0bf | 19:12 |
| faenil | also, how do you move down if you have to start swiping from the space bar? | 19:12 |
| qwazix | faenil, there is a bit of space, I don't know if it's enough, we're just brainstorming | 19:13 |
| faenil | qwazix, also, that would conflict with swipe to exit from app | 19:14 |
| qwazix | btw butt.behavior is a new upstream property? | 19:14 |
| faenil | qwazix, it's always been there, it's an internal property, __behavior | 19:14 |
| faenil | and I didn't notice it before | 19:14 |
| qwazix | cool | 19:14 |
| faenil | it's not in API | 19:14 |
| qwazix | on harmattan you can't swipe from bottom while vkb is popped up | 19:15 |
| faenil | yeah, I put the Button in a SplitView and it stopped working xD so I had to find a solution :P | 19:15 |
| faenil | qwazix, ok | 19:15 |
| qwazix | anyway it's not the best of ideas, if you have something cooler I'm all ears | 19:15 |
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| qwazix | BB10 solution is not bad, that virtual tracking stick also might be a solution, or plain old vkb arrows | 19:16 |
| faenil | yeah, who knows | 19:16 |
| * Morpog_Mobile still votes not to do it via vkb | 19:16 | |
| qwazix | Morpog_Mobile, 5th row, optional? | 19:17 |
| Morpog_Mobile | Mmmh | 19:17 |
| Morpog_Mobile | Aweful on landscape | 19:18 |
| qwazix | (for portrait, landscape has enough space for arrows) | 19:18 |
| qwazix | Morpog_Mobile, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88453 | 19:18 |
| qwazix | not very good looking but despite very low height, keys are perfectly usable | 19:19 |
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| Morpog_Mobile | Could work | 19:21 |
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| qwazix | faenil, I was fixing the ButtonRow spec with what we discussed and saw this "and...I did not understand the "adventorous hacker" part of button row" which I had missed. | 19:27 |
| qwazix | The easiest way to implement a ButtonRow is with buttons that have equal width | 19:27 |
| faenil | yes | 19:28 |
| qwazix | The "adventurous hacker edition" of the buttonRow has unequal widths | 19:28 |
| faenil | yes but you say that will let you fit more buttons | 19:28 |
| qwazix | and arranges the contents by having equal distances between labels | 19:28 |
| faenil | which is not true if buttons have long texts | 19:29 |
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| qwazix | If all buttons have long texts it will be the same | 19:29 |
| faenil | it will not | 19:29 |
| qwazix | why? | 19:29 |
| faenil | look at your picture | 19:31 |
| faenil | if all were "bristlemouth" | 19:31 |
| faenil | it would fit only 2 of them | 19:31 |
| qwazix | if all were bristlemouth it would fit only 2 either way | 19:31 |
| qwazix | (left is equal width buttons, right is equal spacing) | 19:31 |
| faenil | then I didn't get your standard way of doing it | 19:32 |
| qwazix | sorry, top vs bottom | 19:32 |
| faenil | yes but if you set width = totalWidth / buttCount | 19:32 |
| faenil | more of them fit | 19:32 |
| qwazix | You just calculate the available space (buttonrow.width - text1.width - text2.width ...) and then divide it by the count of the buttons | 19:32 |
| qwazix | and you get the space between texts | 19:32 |
| faenil | you can fit 5 bristlemouth if you cut the text | 19:33 |
| qwazix | yeah, ok | 19:33 |
| qwazix | I wasn't talking about cutting text | 19:34 |
| qwazix | You can cut the text anyway | 19:34 |
| qwazix | I feel that even when all items are short the bottom arrangement feels more natural | 19:34 |
| faenil | ok, I got what you meant now | 19:35 |
| qwazix | but it makes it more difficult to do the sliding effect of the rectangle, because you have to dynamically change the width based on position | 19:35 |
| qwazix | it's not a huge usability gain, so I left it there as an option if you want to play with it | 19:35 |
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| faenil | so basically you split width, then get the buttons which still have empty space left | 19:37 |
| faenil | and split that space between all buttons | 19:37 |
| qwazix | yep, that's the long way around but yeah | 19:39 |
| faenil | well, that's the algo I see | 19:40 |
| qwazix | I would just describe it as "take all the empty space and split it to equal parts" but yeah, we are saying the same thing. | 19:44 |
| sandy_locke | qwazix, just a quick look at the idea from before : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53739998/vkb-with-cursor-control.gif | 19:45 |
| sandy_locke | really quick look ^^:P | 19:46 |
| qwazix | sandy_locke, I like! | 19:46 |
| qwazix | sandy_locke, maybe put it between T, Y and G like thinkpad trackpoints? | 19:47 |
| sandy_locke | the swipe up could be managed, but what about swipe down, if you're stuck by the edge of the screen ? | 19:47 |
| qwazix | that would solve the swipe down | 19:48 |
| sandy_locke | yes, nice idea, and would make ibm users comfortable ;) | 19:48 |
| qwazix | space is small yeah, but we just need an indicator, real touch area can be quite big | 19:48 |
| qwazix | it will only trigger on swipe | 19:48 |
| qwazix | (and we can do it red just as a wink) | 19:49 |
| sandy_locke | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53739998/vkb-with-cursor-control2.png | 19:51 |
| sandy_locke | qwazix, we'd have patent issues :P | 19:51 |
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| qwazix | looks very good | 19:52 |
| sandy_locke | it's non-obtrusive, but is it implementable ? | 19:53 |
| qwazix | locusf, pls check out the latest images posted by sandy_locke, you think it's doable? | 19:53 |
| qwazix | sandy_locke, we'll find out soon | 19:53 |
| sandy_locke | I mean what will Maliit say ? ;) | 19:53 |
| qwazix | that's why I asked locusf. Maliit definitely has support for gestures and cursor control (even on N9) so it must be possible | 19:54 |
| sandy_locke | yes but has it ways of floating components in between rows and above other keys ? | 19:56 |
| qwazix | if I am not looking at the wrong repo it's just QML so we can do anything https://gitorious.org/maliit/maliit-plugins/source/796f421d2c8eec210723d490c48bbb2367e96639:nemo-keyboard/org/nemomobile/FunctionKey.qml | 19:58 |
| Morpog_Mobile | It's qml | 19:59 |
| qwazix | I was looking at the wrong repo, but it's still qml https://github.com/maliit/plugins/tree/master/nemo-keyboard | 19:59 |
| qwazix | Morpog_Mobile, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53739998/vkb-with-cursor-control.gif https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53739998/vkb-with-cursor-control2.png | 19:59 |
| qwazix | (I see you joined after sandy_locke posted them) | 20:00 |
| qwazix | err, that was just a hiccup, sorry for spam | 20:00 |
| Morpog_Mobile | I checked on log | 20:00 |
| qwazix | comments? | 20:01 |
| Morpog_Mobile | Irc crashed on damn nexus 7 | 20:01 |
| qwazix | meh, android | 20:01 |
| Morpog_Mobile | Could 2ork well, especially 2nd pic like ibm | 20:02 |
| qwazix | :nod: | 20:03 |
| Morpog_Mobile | Gimme stable nemo on it and i change instsnt :) | 20:04 |
| qwazix | isn't what we are all trying to do? | 20:05 |
| Morpog_Mobile | Well yeah | 20:05 |
| sandy_locke | for christ sake ;) | 20:05 |
| Morpog_Mobile | Just takes ages :D | 20:06 |
| qwazix | yeah but we'll have our very own mobile OS :)) | 20:06 |
| sandy_locke | can't you install sailfish on it Morpog_Mobile ? Isn't there a build for it somewhere ? | 20:06 |
| Morpog_Mobile | And ruins studies like faenil :) | 20:07 |
| qwazix | and we aren't that many hands! | 20:07 |
| Morpog_Mobile | sandy_locke: not outside jolla | 20:07 |
| sandy_locke | arf :/ | 20:07 |
| qwazix | heh, studies, who needs them... :P | 20:07 |
| sandy_locke | they preserve their hard work | 20:08 |
| sandy_locke | self teaching rule ;) | 20:08 |
| sandy_locke | qwazix, read you pm's | 20:09 |
| rcg | well, imho, studies == self teaching | 20:09 |
| rcg | but then, well, yeah... | 20:10 |
| qwazix | joking apart, studies are just a facilitator. Most freshmen know much less than somebody who hacked a bit on his own. | 20:11 |
| sandy_locke | rcg, ah the semantic's ;) | 20:11 |
| qwazix | If you have studied, and hack a bit on your own though, you learn faster | 20:11 |
| rcg | hehe, yeah, there are many ways to get a degree and now nothing | 20:12 |
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| rcg | was kinda surprised on the last interviews we had for a job, none of the applicants hacked at home, which was pretty frustrating | 20:12 |
| rcg | why would i want to give someone a job who doesn't show any passion and love for what he is doing | 20:13 |
| qwazix | exactly | 20:13 |
| sandy_locke | yeah hopefully (for me) in our line of work degrees are only a small part of the required stuffs ;) | 20:14 |
| qwazix | recent interview, guy showed up for UI Developer, I asked what comes through your mind when I say UI Framework? He responds "Nothing" | 20:14 |
| sandy_locke | The guy has nothing to give, then | 20:14 |
| qwazix | obviously | 20:14 |
| rcg | qwazix, hehe, there was that guy: q: "do you know test driven development", a: "yeah, i learned about it when i prepared for the interview", q: "great, so what can you tell me about tdd?", a: "oh, well, apparently, i didn't learn that much." | 20:15 |
| qwazix | lol, sounds like a dilbert strip | 20:16 |
| sandy_locke | tdd is interesting, although I really don't like getting errors when I code ! | 20:18 |
| sandy_locke | but you can never do without them... | 20:18 |
| rcg | sandy_locke, i love tdd | 20:19 |
| rcg | at least in all my java and clojure projects i try to strictly follow tdd | 20:19 |
| sandy_locke | rcg, I can see why, it's a good way to debug inline | 20:19 |
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| sandy_locke | and it's a pleasure to know that your errors wil go away with just "this line!" | 20:22 |
| rcg | sandy_locke, imho there are many benefits, it changes the way you think about problems, fosters modular design, you get your regression tests for "free", refactoring is so much easier when you have a test suite you can use to verify the results, you can reproduce things automatically etc. | 20:22 |
| rcg | :) | 20:23 |
| sandy_locke | will try that in my next app | 20:24 |
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| sandy_locke | see how I like it in situation | 20:24 |
| rcg | also in debugging, first get a test case that fails the way the bug is described. then fixing the bug is just another test made succeed | 20:24 |
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| rcg | there are also unit tests for qt and qml but for some reason i never started an qt/qml project the tdd way | 20:25 |
| sandy_locke | it's true that it must make you see bugs as just normal proceedure, lessening the anger from further not wanted errors | 20:25 |
| rcg | dunno why actually | 20:25 |
| rcg | sandy_locke, and with each test case you get more confidence in your product | 20:26 |
| rcg | of course just the number of tests doesn't tell anything about coverage etc. but i don't wanna go into the very details :) | 20:27 |
| sandy_locke | yes true, because you can then list the bugs that could happen, but were taken care of eventually during the coding | 20:27 |
| rcg | sandy_locke, nah, it's not about the bugs that can happen | 20:27 |
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| rcg | in the first place it's about the functionality you want | 20:28 |
| sandy_locke | yes, I'm listening, find it interesting | 20:28 |
| rcg | in the second step it's a nice way that you can model bug reports as tests first and then fix them in a controlled an reproducible manner | 20:28 |
| qwazix | I always wondered what if you have a bug in your test? Doesn't that fuck you up for good? | 20:28 |
| rcg | qwazix, hehe, yeah, i see you spotted the hen and egg problem there | 20:29 |
| rcg | but usually you start with very simple tests and then increase complexity | 20:29 |
| qwazix | I mean if you need to code f(x)=y don't you need to erm, implement g(x)=y to test your f(x)? | 20:30 |
| rcg | furthermore, you can add tests to check that your pre-conditions for a test are fulfilled and the test runs the way it should | 20:30 |
| rcg | qwazix, kinda, but usually g(x) is rather simple | 20:30 |
| sandy_locke | it's a good way to have a beautiful code, no ? I mean, where you can clearly see the blocks, if you handle it well | 20:31 |
| qwazix | because you choose an arbitrary case rather than a general one? | 20:31 |
| rcg | say i want an add function f(x)=a+b), then i could construct test cases a=1,b=2,f(x)should be 3 etc. | 20:31 |
| qwazix | :nod: | 20:31 |
| rcg | and maybe i also want a test case for negative numbers as well | 20:32 |
| rcg | of course you don't do all test cases for N | 20:32 |
| qwazix | yeah but you can do at each part of f where it is monotonous, and you really have tested everything | 20:33 |
| rcg | usually, it's a bit like the peano axioms, you test the basics and critical cases that matter | 20:33 |
| rcg | qwazix, yeah like test for i and i+1 and then you can be pretty sure that it holds for all values.. more or less | 20:33 |
| rcg | that's of course very simplified | 20:34 |
| qwazix | :nod: | 20:34 |
| rcg | e.g. if you want to test a division function one test for sure should be divide by zero | 20:34 |
| rcg | on the other hand, in case you deal with really complicated functions there are even way to automatically generate your test data | 20:35 |
| rcg | *ways | 20:35 |
| sandy_locke | but what does it give to make the test fail instead of making it work with known results ? | 20:36 |
| rcg | sandy_locke, it's also not really about the beauty of the code. it changes the way you think, and (i'm talking about bottom up here), you learn how to split your big problems into smaller ones and make more modular designs | 20:36 |
| rcg | sandy_locke, ? | 20:36 |
| rcg | usually you write the test first, making sure everything compiles by implementing stubs, the logic doesn't matter at first. at that point your test fails | 20:37 |
| rcg | then you implement the logic making your test succeed | 20:37 |
| rcg | or mocks | 20:37 |
| rcg | i.e., stubs or mocks | 20:38 |
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| sandy_locke | do you have an example , rcg ? like a link where I can see the first steps ? | 20:39 |
| rcg | e.g., in case of an addition function, i'd write a test for f(a,b) that says f(1,2)=3. in order to compile it i need at least some f(x). as i don't care about the logic i would chose f(a,b)=0 | 20:39 |
| qwazix | very interesting... I always thought it more like of a way to keep your developers on a leash, if you've got hordes of them. | 20:39 |
| qwazix | I hadn't heard anybody really like the approach in the actual coding part | 20:40 |
| qwazix | I'll certainly look more into it | 20:40 |
| sandy_locke | yeah me too | 20:40 |
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| rcg | qwazix, actually, the coders are the ones who benefit most, i think :) | 20:41 |
| sandy_locke | rcg, and what would you get with f(a,b)=0 in the debugger for instance ? what would be the output ? | 20:42 |
| rcg | my test is f(1,2)=3, f(a,b)=0, so the test fails | 20:43 |
| rcg | it's not about the debugger btw. | 20:43 |
| rcg | the debugger is something different again | 20:43 |
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| rcg | imagine you want to test f(a,b) the "normal" way as console application, you would code the application, compile it and then manually invoke f(a,b) with a=1 and b=2 just to see it fail | 20:44 |
| rcg | one point of testing is to automate things such that you don't need to do all the cumbersome stuff yourself | 20:45 |
| sandy_locke | and when the test fails in this instance, how does it give you a clue that the test went "well" ? | 20:45 |
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| rcg | well, 1. the code compiled, 2. the test didn't give an error which means that code-wise everythings ok so far, just the logic is not working | 20:45 |
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| rcg | so from there you would start to implement f(a,b), e.g., as f(a,b) = a+b | 20:46 |
| rcg | implement the logic, that is | 20:46 |
| rcg | and when you run the test again after you implemented the logic f(a,b)=a+b, your test f(1,2)=3 should succeed | 20:46 |
| rcg | btw. tests giving and error and tests failing are two different things ;) | 20:47 |
| rcg | if a test fails it means that everything compiles and runs, whereas an error means that something broke even in the testing part itself | 20:48 |
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| sandy_locke | so if I set up a function and omit a variable on purpose, is it a fail or an error ? | 20:50 |
| sandy_locke | *variable declaration | 20:51 |
| sandy_locke | because the code compile, although the function give no result since the variable is not set | 20:51 |
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| sandy_locke | rcg ^ | 20:52 |
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| sandy_locke | well, I'll be afk but still waiting for the answer ;) | 20:55 |
| rcg | in the addition example i would first write a test, define a=1 and b=2 then call c=add(a,b) and finally compare c=3, add is the function i want to implement | 20:55 |
| rcg | then, apparently, to make the test compile i have to add a function "add" that takes exactly two arguments | 20:55 |
| rcg | at first, i just want the thing to compile so i'd do something like "int add(int a, int b) { return 0; }" | 20:56 |
| rcg | so, automatically, i have to implement that function with the right number of arguments because else my compiler would throw errors | 20:57 |
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| rcg | once that works and the test runs then i can go into the details of implementing the logic inside the "add" procedure | 20:57 |
| sandy_locke | rcg, so basically you first implement dummy functions with dummy variable to see if it compiles, and then put the real variable while enhancing the code ? | 21:03 |
| rcg | btw. in more complex setups where you need to have certain pre-conditions, like assuring that a database is initialized and contains certain values you use so called "setup" and "tear down" methods to prepare your test environment and to clean it afterwards | 21:03 |
| rcg | yep | 21:03 |
| rcg | that's what stubbing and mocking does | 21:03 |
| rcg | in the example the dummy "add" function would be the stubb | 21:04 |
| rcg | *stub | 21:04 |
| sandy_locke | ok | 21:04 |
| faenil | qwazix, sorry I'm afk guys, can you please elaborate more on landscape header | 21:04 |
| faenil | levels etc | 21:04 |
| faenil | bbl | 21:04 |
| sandy_locke | rcg, yeah, I asked myself about cleaning the code, do you have ways to automate the process, w/o cleaning by hand ? | 21:05 |
| rcg | *set up* | 21:05 |
| rcg | sandy_locke, cleaning the code? | 21:05 |
| rcg | tdd doesn't prevent you from writing ugly code. if it's that what you mean | 21:06 |
| rcg | you can make all your tests pass even with stupid code | 21:06 |
| sandy_locke | I mean, when you put stuffs just for testing purpose, but don't need it afterward, and taken that the testing code is redundant too, so a lot of it | 21:06 |
| sandy_locke | ok | 21:06 |
| rcg | but if you find ugly code and refactor it, you can run the same tests and check easily that your refactoring didn't break anything | 21:07 |
| sono | ^ this | 21:07 |
| sono | now give this man a pint | 21:07 |
| alterego | Unit tests are extremely important | 21:07 |
| alterego | For any medium to large project. | 21:07 |
| rcg | sandy_locke, well, the tests are somewhat code that never goes into production, in fact, you usually design your tests explicitly this way such that the end-user never sees them. e.g., in an java eclipse project you would put all your tests into a different source folder | 21:09 |
| sandy_locke | rcg, ok but with complex code, testing refactored code need to change lot of stuffs no ? Or did I miss something ? | 21:09 |
| sandy_locke | mmh ok | 21:09 |
| rcg | sono, me? thanks am already working on it :) | 21:09 |
| sandy_locke | so you never test inline in the same source ? you always create testing files ? | 21:10 |
| sono | rcg: =) | 21:11 |
| rcg | sandy_locke, that's one reason i prefer bottom up testing. it keeps the the modules small at first and then increases complexity bit by bit. | 21:11 |
| rcg | and even if you change your design later on, your smaller modules are still reusable and tested | 21:11 |
| rcg | sandy_locke, yep | 21:11 |
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| sandy_locke | yeah modular designs are good | 21:11 |
| rcg | tests are should be completely disjoint from the product source code | 21:11 |
| rcg | *-are | 21:11 |
| sandy_locke | yeah of course, all of it make sense now | 21:12 |
| sandy_locke | thank you sensei ;) | 21:12 |
| rcg | np :) | 21:12 |
| rcg | i like tdd and it's kinda a passion to me since i discovered it | 21:12 |
| rcg | just makes things so much better :) | 21:13 |
| sandy_locke | no I have to figure a way to use this technic in my next project | 21:13 |
| sono | just start by writing a test. | 21:13 |
| rcg | that's the way, learning by doing | 21:13 |
| rcg | sono, +1 | 21:13 |
| sandy_locke | I figure you have to think about the structure including your testing scripts before hand ? | 21:14 |
| rcg | sandy_locke, try to force yourself to write a test first | 21:14 |
| sandy_locke | ok | 21:14 |
| rcg | sandy_locke, that's what unit testing frameworks, like junit etc. are for | 21:14 |
| rcg | qt also has some tools built in for testing and automation | 21:14 |
| sono | or cppunit or qtestlib | 21:15 |
| rcg | imho, the easiest step into tdd is with java+eclipse+junit | 21:15 |
| rcg | http://www.vogella.com/articles/JUnit/article.html | 21:15 |
| rcg | and as sono mentioned there are also frameworks for c++ and qt | 21:15 |
| sono | http://docs.python.org/3/library/unittest.html | 21:16 |
| sono | =p | 21:16 |
| sono | SCNR | 21:16 |
| rcg | yep, python has also cool testing features :) | 21:16 |
| sandy_locke | rcg, for me it will be jsUnity (just found it) because although I work with an eclipse like frontend, I use javascript (and derivated) for my apps | 21:18 |
| sandy_locke | I don't work with java, and don't know it | 21:18 |
| rcg | sandy_locke, sure, what ever you work with :) | 21:18 |
| rcg | as you see, there are testing frameworks for all popular languages | 21:19 |
| sandy_locke | rcg, is it hard to understand setUp and tearDown methods ? | 21:19 |
| rcg | sandy_locke, nope | 21:19 |
| rcg | those are just methods that are run before, respectively, after your test | 21:19 |
| sandy_locke | ok | 21:20 |
| rcg | and for the first, simple tests, you likely even don't need those | 21:20 |
| sandy_locke | ok | 21:21 |
| sandy_locke | I'll put myself into it tomorrow then | 21:21 |
| sono | sandy_locke: javascript as in npm and grunt or javascript as in chrome and such | 21:22 |
| sono | setup: instance = new object() | 21:22 |
| sono | etc.. | 21:23 |
| sono | teardown is just to deallocate resources | 21:23 |
| sono | if you're using GC | 21:23 |
| sandy_locke | sono, js more like npm and stuffs | 21:24 |
| sono | well https://npmjs.org/package/unit-test | 21:24 |
| sono | feel free to take that over | 21:25 |
| sono | https://npmjs.org/package/tdd | 21:25 |
| sono | or that | 21:25 |
| sandy_locke | well, sono, I don't use npm, but my work focus on the same stuffs | 21:26 |
| sono | there's plenty, i don't do javascript currently but i'm sure you can ask. | 21:26 |
| sandy_locke | I use the Alloy framework | 21:26 |
| rcg | qwazix, btw. there are also languages like acl2 that have features for automated reasoning and even proofs built into the language. | 21:28 |
| sono | hmm alloy | 21:28 |
| sono | thansk | 21:28 |
| rcg | qwazix, so in that case you could, for some scenarios, even really proof that f(x) is correct | 21:28 |
| sono | probably not going to need it tho | 21:29 |
| sono | always interesting | 21:29 |
| qwazix | rcg, wow, that sounds cool | 21:29 |
| sandy_locke | sono, ? | 21:29 |
| sono | nevermind me | 21:29 |
| sandy_locke | ok :) | 21:29 |
| qwazix | sandy_locke, http://kdeblog.mageprojects.com/2012/11/20/using-fonts-awesome-in-qml/ | 21:29 |
| sandy_locke | mmh, I'm using fontawesome in my new website | 21:30 |
| qwazix | faenil, I'll edit the header some more, and we'll discuss it tomorrow. I know this keeps you back but it's the most complex control we must do it right. | 21:31 |
| sandy_locke | qwazix, since the header tabs seem like their 'rolling' from the sides, couldn't we add a 'rolling' animation for the whole screen when switching tabs ? | 21:33 |
| qwazix | sandy_locke, it's a very nice way to do dpi independent monochrome icons | 21:34 |
| sandy_locke | qwazix ^ yes, svg is the future, I tell you | 21:34 |
| sandy_locke | I use it whenever I can | 21:34 |
| qwazix | sandy_locke, faenil is right that the buttonrow is not the best solution so there should be some more thought into that | 21:34 |
| sandy_locke | why ^ | 21:35 |
| sandy_locke | ? | 21:35 |
| qwazix | they tell me svg has performance issues in qt... | 21:35 |
| sandy_locke | because we can't see what's right and left ? | 21:35 |
| qwazix | (though even symbian used svg for icons since forever) | 21:35 |
| sandy_locke | in Qt I don't know (with wayland and opengl, are you sure ?) but with css and html they just work | 21:36 |
| qwazix | we could of course use svg and if we see significant slowdowns convert to png | 21:36 |
| sandy_locke | or meshes ? | 21:37 |
| qwazix | because a buttonRow is not a tab bar, and there is no clear indication that changing the button row will alter the controls below | 21:37 |
| sandy_locke | 3D meshes ? | 21:37 |
| sono | qwazix: prettiest web based code highlighting ever | 21:37 |
| sandy_locke | what's the difference between buttonRow and tabBar then, qwazix ? | 21:37 |
| sandy_locke | qwazix, yes if we use opengl in nemo, we could use 3d meshes to display 2D | 21:38 |
| sandy_locke | I did this in Lua some time ago | 21:38 |
| qwazix | http://play.qwazix.com/shared/tmp001.png | 21:38 |
| qwazix | this could make it a bit more clear, but it doesn't work with the current implementation | 21:39 |
| sandy_locke | ok, so I see the difference | 21:39 |
| sandy_locke | so what will buttonRow be used for ? | 21:39 |
| sono | Crayon Syntax Highlighter v2.4.1 | 21:40 |
| qwazix | sandy_locke, buttonRow is used to select one of many options. A tab bar is just a visual control, it tells the user that he'll only change views | 21:40 |
| sono | eep it's php | 21:40 |
| sono | what happened, i just forgot the last 2 minutes | 21:40 |
| qwazix | sono, ?? | 21:41 |
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| sandy_locke | qwazix, why not use the breeze buttonRows then ? | 21:41 |
| qwazix | I prefer to not confuse the two themes | 21:43 |
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| qwazix | A scrollable view would be the simplest and most intuitive thing but it would have a problem with the speedbumps and the levels | 21:44 |
| qwazix | a paged view is doable but a bit overcomplicated, and, if you have many sliders or buttonRows, the user will have to take care where he swipes | 21:44 |
| sandy_locke | qwazix, I realize: can you show me the actual buttonRow ? I don't find them ^^ | 21:45 |
| qwazix | http://play.qwazix.com/grog/?p=472 | 21:45 |
| sandy_locke | thx | 21:46 |
| qwazix | the thing is, there is a good amount of space in the headerDock so this situation will be really rare, but we still have to find an acceptable solution | 21:46 |
| sandy_locke | so the issue here is what ? the buttonRow itself, or the way pages are implemented ? | 21:47 |
| sandy_locke | (sorry, I'm a bit slow right now^^) | 21:48 |
| qwazix | the issue here is that I used a buttonRow in the wrong way | 21:48 |
| qwazix | I used an option control to do a job of a visual control and this is not right. | 21:48 |
| qwazix | but I think I have a better solution | 21:48 |
| sandy_locke | qwazix, arf I still don't understand in what situation a buttonRow is relevant ? ^^ | 21:52 |
| qwazix | correct ButtonRow usage is for example to choose a wallpaper scaling mode (clip, stretch, cover, fit, center, tile) | 21:53 |
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| sandy_locke | mmmh, all right ! | 21:53 |
| sandy_locke | thx | 21:53 |
| sandy_locke | ^^ | 21:53 |
| qwazix | or to choose a text size for something between predefined options (small, medium, large) | 21:54 |
| qwazix | it changes an option | 21:54 |
| qwazix | a tab bar does not change an option, it just shows a different part of the ui | 21:54 |
| sandy_locke | qwazix, how can it be triggered ? like taping on an image, or on a option icon ? | 21:57 |
| qwazix | the buttonrow? | 22:00 |
| sandy_locke | yes | 22:06 |
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| sandy_locke | qwazix, could sth like this be useful : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53739998/test-button-pop.gif ? | 22:12 |
| qwazix | the buttonrow is triggered by tapping on one of the options | 22:12 |
| sandy_locke | bit ugly, but the principle is : you tap on an element and buttons pop to let you choose options | 22:12 |
| qwazix | yes that could work too, but it requires one more tap. It is good for very space-constrained environments | 22:13 |
| qwazix | (like select/dropdown boxes) | 22:13 |
| sandy_locke | ok | 22:14 |
| sandy_locke | qwazix, you mean it's good to let the buttonRow in place so that user can switch between options easily ? | 22:14 |
| sandy_locke | what is your new solution? you have a mockup ? | 22:15 |
| qwazix | no it's completely different, I'll have mockup in a few minutes | 22:19 |
| sandy_locke | ok, sauce once done ;) | 22:19 |
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| qwazix | sandy_locke, http://play.qwazix.com/shared/tmp002.pdf | 22:27 |
| sandy_locke | qwazix, ok so now buttonRows are scrollable vertically and levels snap to the bottom of the component view, is that it ? | 22:33 |
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| sandy_locke | I thought you wanted to redo the buttonRow system completely ^^ but like that it's nice, it always annoys me when controls are half-way offscreen and on screen | 22:35 |
| qwazix | I think you still have the buttonRow confused with something else | 22:35 |
| sandy_locke | ^^ | 22:35 |
| sandy_locke | lol | 22:36 |
| sandy_locke | so what has change between the new and the old ? | 22:36 |
| sandy_locke | :confused: | 22:36 |
| qwazix | ok, let's take it from the beginning | 22:36 |
| sandy_locke | right, maybe I'll understand this time ^^ | 22:37 |
| qwazix | Our initial issue is: what to do if the developer wants to put more controls in the dock than available space | 22:37 |
| sandy_locke | ok that I understood | 22:37 |
| qwazix | the buttonRow is the control which has the long grey rectangle with the blue rectangle on top. The option with the blue rectangle is the one selected. | 22:39 |
| sandy_locke | ok that I understood too | 22:39 |
| qwazix | So, I thought, let's put a buttonRow at the top of the dock, and when the end-user clicks on one option, the controls below will change accordingly, more like tabs | 22:39 |
| sandy_locke | ok | 22:40 |
| qwazix | (like on MS software where you click on ribbon tabs and the controls of the whole ribbon change) | 22:40 |
| sandy_locke | ok, but it's a mix between tab and button then | 22:40 |
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| qwazix | yes, and it might be confusing, we shouldn't do that mix | 22:41 |
| sandy_locke | ok | 22:41 |
| qwazix | so after faenil pointed that out, I decided to ditch that idea | 22:41 |
| qwazix | this doesn't mean that we don't want buttonRows in the dock | 22:41 |
| sandy_locke | yes | 22:41 |
| qwazix | we just want them to be real rows of buttons, that do things (for example in the latest pdf, change the aspect of images) | 22:42 |
| sandy_locke | ok | 22:42 |
| qwazix | so the difference of the new solution is that it deals with extra controls with scrolling, instead of the user having to click somewhere to reveal a new set of controls | 22:43 |
| qwazix | now he can scroll up and down and reveal new groups (which we call levels) of controls | 22:43 |
| qwazix | (each level is the controls between dotted lines) | 22:43 |
| sandy_locke | but then, there must be controls that are unnecessary with the selected button in buttonrow, no ? | 22:44 |
| qwazix | the whole idea behind the levels, is that the dock can be partially closed, so that only one or two (or more) levels are visible | 22:44 |
| sandy_locke | ok | 22:44 |
| sandy_locke | like that | 22:44 |
| qwazix | if there are such controls the developer of each app should disable them | 22:45 |
| sandy_locke | and enable them when the relevant button is selected ? | 22:45 |
| qwazix | yes, but this in not certain at all. In my example, changing the image aspect does not affect either font, color or alignment | 22:45 |
| sandy_locke | yes of course | 22:46 |
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| sandy_locke | maybe you can stipulate that if there are new controls for a selected button, they should appear *just below* the buttonRow ? | 22:47 |
| sandy_locke | to not confuse the user | 22:47 |
| qwazix | faenil, when you're back http://play.qwazix.com/shared/tmp002.pdf | 22:47 |
| sandy_locke | they know that new options are always just under the button they pressed | 22:47 |
| qwazix | sandy_locke, yes that can be part of the guidelines, though I would prefer enabled/disabled rather than appearing/disappearing controls | 22:48 |
| qwazix | ofc this some times is not very good as it eats too much space, but generally the dock isn't the best place for dynamically showing controls | 22:49 |
| qwazix | a settings page would be better for that. | 22:49 |
| sandy_locke | yes of course | 22:49 |
| qwazix | The dock is for controls that are used while working, and those shouldn't change too often, to help muscle memory | 22:49 |
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| sandy_locke | speaking of which, shouldn't we add a special settings panel for apps (a bit like ios) but where this is the *only* place where one can find the settings for the apps ? | 22:50 |
| faenil | back | 22:50 |
| sandy_locke | so that apps do not have settings panels inside, but in centralized place ? | 22:51 |
| sandy_locke | always dreamed of that | 22:51 |
| sandy_locke | for persistant settings of course, those that you do not change often | 22:52 |
| sandy_locke | I'm for banishing the settings panel inside apps ;) | 22:52 |
| sandy_locke | on those kind words, I'm gonna leave you | 22:55 |
| sandy_locke | reading time before sleep | 22:55 |
| sandy_locke | :D | 22:55 |
| sandy_locke | bye | 22:55 |
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| qwazix | faenil, if you opened the pdf please download again | 22:56 |
| qwazix | just fixed something | 22:57 |
| Hurrian | ohai qwazix | 23:00 |
| qwazix | hi Hurrian | 23:07 |
| Hurrian | so, what's happened since I went MIA? :P | 23:07 |
| qwazix | good stuff, thousands of lines of scrollback :) | 23:08 |
| qwazix | seen faenil's video? | 23:08 |
| Hurrian | the Glacier buttons? | 23:08 |
| Hurrian | they look great! | 23:09 |
| qwazix | yep! | 23:09 |
| qwazix | we also have an almost working slider | 23:10 |
| qwazix | and Glacier styled maliit. Today we were brainstorming on cursor control for maliit too | 23:11 |
| qwazix | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53739998/vkb-with-cursor-control.gif and https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53739998/vkb-with-cursor-control2.png | 23:11 |
| qwazix | also we are struggling a bit with the header, but I think we've almost nailed it | 23:11 |
| Hurrian | yep, was talking to faenil about that a few days ago - what's the solution you guys came to? | 23:12 |
| qwazix | http://play.qwazix.com/shared/header.pdf | 23:12 |
| qwazix | see the last page | 23:12 |
| qwazix | (there are changes in the other pages too) | 23:12 |
| Hurrian | qwazix: that's a mouse cursor control for maliit? that's something nicely new. | 23:13 |
| qwazix | yep, I wanted to have something to nudge the cursor left and right, either arrows, or like BB10 magnifier, and we came up with a thinkpad style trackpoint | 23:14 |
| qwazix | if you start a swipe from the trackpoint you can move the cursor around | 23:14 |
| qwazix | (or that's the idea, no implementation yet) | 23:14 |
| Hurrian | I'm guessing swiping left and right on the keyboard's reserved to "switch IME"? | 23:15 |
| Hurrian | I think the nipple mouse in the middle of the KB looks more balanced, though. | 23:16 |
| qwazix | we've not decided on that yet (it can be like harmattan, swipe from outside) but even if it's like that, you can swipe from anywhere except the trackpoint for that | 23:16 |
| Hurrian | ah. | 23:16 |
| qwazix | yep, that is much better, and it allows up and down too | 23:16 |
| qwazix | I just linked to the first which is a gif just to showcase how it should work | 23:17 |
| qwazix | or we could reserve swiping on space for "switch ime" like some android keyboards (samsung?) | 23:18 |
| qwazix | and leave the rest of the keyboard for other swipes (delete word, tab, etc) | 23:18 |
| Hurrian | nah, too much swipe controls gets confusing | 23:20 |
| qwazix | another idea, pressing and holding on the appswitcher grabs a window, and highlights half of the screen (like windows aero snap). Dropping on the top half creates a top half window, and respectively for the bottom. | 23:21 |
| qwazix | swipe from outside to dismiss the app | 23:22 |
| Hurrian | does swiping on the outside dismiss one app, or two? | 23:22 |
| qwazix | one | 23:22 |
| Hurrian | and then the other fills the space? | 23:22 |
| qwazix | no, the space is filled with the switcher, so that you can choose another app to place there | 23:23 |
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| qwazix | (or something) I've not given it much thought yet, just brainstorming | 23:23 |
| Hurrian | fitting the switcher into half the screen doesn't look too practical | 23:24 |
| Hurrian | it'd be nice if the app that remains stretches to fit the remaining screen space | 23:24 |
| qwazix | this can be so too, but there needs to be a way to fill the second half of the screen anyway | 23:24 |
| Hurrian | mmm. | 23:24 |
| qwazix | Let's say user drops an app to the top half | 23:25 |
| qwazix | the bottom half should display, if not the switcher, a grid of icons of open apps | 23:25 |
| qwazix | (or shrink the switcher, fade the thumbnails out and just keep the icons) | 23:26 |
| qwazix | so that the user can choose the second app | 23:26 |
| Hurrian | sounds good enough. | 23:26 |
| qwazix | second app can be chosen with a tap, no need to hold and drag | 23:26 |
| qwazix | so when dismissing, we can either fill the space with the one app or display that chooser again | 23:27 |
| qwazix | when the chooser is visible, there can be an arrow just outside the open app that makes it fullscreen | 23:28 |
| Hurrian | mmm. | 23:29 |
| qwazix | http://play.qwazix.com/shared/tmp0multiwindow.png | 23:31 |
| faenil | wow, just finished reading backlog | 23:33 |
| Hurrian | ohai faenil! | 23:33 |
| qwazix | faenil, lol | 23:33 |
| faenil | hey Hurrian | 23:33 |
| faenil | interesting talk about testing :) | 23:33 |
| qwazix | yep | 23:33 |
| * qwazix ponders having e-speak recite the irc log for him while at work | 23:37 | |
| qwazix | I doubt I'll understand anything thoug | 23:37 |
| qwazix | h | 23:37 |
| faenil | qwazix, "The view snaps in a way that the bottom is always a level boundary." | 23:38 |
| faenil | so you want both top and bottom to be at level boundary, tell me how to achieve that, without resizing the header xD | 23:38 |
| qwazix | not clear? | 23:38 |
| qwazix | sorry I was scrolled one line up | 23:38 |
| qwazix | not both | 23:38 |
| qwazix | only bottom | 23:38 |
| qwazix | "The bottom level cannot be clipped halfway (the top one can). " | 23:39 |
| faenil | but the picture showed a perfectly aligned top | 23:39 |
| qwazix | yeah, that was by chance, let me change it | 23:39 |
| faenil | I imagine this means blocking the header while the inner view is scrolling? | 23:41 |
| faenil | locking* | 23:41 |
| qwazix | ehm... | 23:42 |
| qwazix | if you mean if somebody scrolls fast enough and before scrolling ends tries to resize the header, yes | 23:42 |
| faenil | yes, well it's not difficult and unlikely to happen | 23:43 |
| faenil | it's actually quite likely to happen | 23:43 |
| faenil | and when you see you can't close the header, you get upset :D | 23:43 |
| qwazix | I'm not sure because of snapping, momentum will last up to the next boundary | 23:44 |
| qwazix | it's not like it's gonna scroll like the contacts list, we need high friction there, almost like the homepage | 23:44 |
| faenil | qwazix, so, in landscape you say levels are columns | 23:48 |
| qwazix | faenil, yes, if the developer has bothered | 23:49 |
| faenil | with what | 23:49 |
| qwazix | rearranging his levels to columns | 23:49 |
| *** Morpog_Mobile has quit IRC | 23:50 | |
| qwazix | (which might be impossible) | 23:50 |
| faenil | but no snapping | 23:50 |
| qwazix | when levels are columns snapping works just the same | 23:51 |
| faenil | :/ | 23:51 |
| faenil | you mean | 23:51 |
| faenil | | | | | | 23:51 |
| faenil | like that ^ | 23:51 |
| qwazix | faenil, ignore the clipped thing I just missed to delete it | 23:52 |
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| *** wmarone has quit IRC | 23:52 | |
| faenil | qwazix, I don't understand how I'm supposed to know if I have to do snapping or not on landscape | 23:52 |
| qwazix | see page 5 | 23:53 |
| qwazix | if levels have a width, then you use that width to do snapping | 23:53 |
| qwazix | (and you ignore the height completely) | 23:54 |
| qwazix | if levels do not have a width, you don't do snapping, and the levels are still rows just like they were in portrait | 23:54 |
| faenil | why shouldn't they have a width | 23:55 |
| qwazix | I just used width and height as a way to recognize if the developer has designed his levels for both orientations. It might be clearer to create a special property for that | 23:57 |
| qwazix | on portrait, width does not have a meaning (it's always screen.width) | 23:58 |
| qwazix | respectively for height in landscape | 23:58 |
| faenil | qwazix, also, it seems like you didn't use long text on purpose in the landscape example | 23:58 |
| faenil | try using "bye" and "doublelongsword" | 23:58 |
| faenil | and see how nice buttonrow becomes | 23:59 |
| qwazix | exactly why I said might be impossible to create column levels. In that case, the dev will not set width on his levels, and we will display them just like we did in portrait i.e. page4 | 23:59 |
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