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| sledgeSim | g_morning | 05:49 |
|---|---|---|
| Stskeeps | morn sledgeSim | 05:49 |
| Stskeeps | sledgeSim: wasn't being sarcastic on the pandaboard and libhybris; wayland is unlikely to really ever come there :P | 05:50 |
| sledgeSim | interesting ideas! still context menu in a contentroll definition a bit blurry | 05:50 |
| sledgeSim | Stskeeps, understood that | 05:50 |
| sledgeSim | but the amount of onterest pamda gained half year ago took the wind out of my sales | 05:51 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 05:51 |
| Stskeeps | trying to see who can get some knowledge in using libhybris so | 05:51 |
| sledgeSim | and now i dedicate time for other rip roaring developmemt :) | 05:51 |
| sledgeSim | lol youre passing on the knowhow :) | 05:52 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 05:52 |
| sledgeSim | erm i got n4 here | 05:52 |
| sledgeSim | actually yyping from it | 05:53 |
| sledgeSim | (how ironic-typo in word typing) | 05:53 |
| Stskeeps | nexus 4? also good | 05:53 |
| sledgeSim | yup, need to finish soldering uart ftdi breakout cable | 05:54 |
| sledgeSim | zmc picked that up last time | 05:55 |
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| sledgeSim | dm8tbr started ;) | 05:56 |
| * sledgeSim imagines a pre-coffee dm8tbr roaring from pings somewhere atm | 05:57 | |
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| * sledgeSim goes back to sleep, doesnt do mor.ings lol 7am here | 06:00 | |
| * dm8tbr yawns | 06:01 | |
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| * Stskeeps passes dm8tbr the coffee | 06:38 | |
| dm8tbr | thanks *slurp* | 06:38 |
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| drachensun | stskeeps: thanks for the tips earlier, I've got the nemo root setup now | 08:02 |
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| Stskeeps | cool | 08:04 |
| drachensun | the next step is to build libhybris right? where should I get libhybris from? | 08:06 |
| drachensun | I didn't see it in the nemo repo | 08:06 |
| drachensun | or should I just get it straight from https://github.com/libhybris/libhybris | 08:07 |
| Stskeeps | just clone straight from there | 08:09 |
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| tablette | hi. I'd like to try nemo on my cheap china tablet. I've got u-boot source, kernel-source, android-source. I compiled a custom kernel and got it booted. That's pretty much the best I can do. How to start? | 09:46 |
| faenil | tablette, https://github.com/libhybris/libhybris | 09:47 |
| faenil | Stskeeps, ^ | 09:47 |
| Stskeeps | tablette: android ICS or JB? | 09:47 |
| tablette | Stskeeps: I think it's JB source. | 09:48 |
| Stskeeps | tablette: got framebuffer console or the likes? | 09:49 |
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| tablette | Stskeeps: can you specify the question? | 09:50 |
| Stskeeps | tablette: ok, so, if you're able to see kernel boot messages for example | 09:50 |
| tablette | I got a debian image booting, includeing all logs and frambuffer console. I didn't try much of android source because I haven't looked into how android is build. | 09:52 |
| tablette | Stskeeps: ^ | 09:52 |
| Stskeeps | okie then | 09:52 |
| Stskeeps | tablette: http://phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb?p=CyanogenMod/android_bionic.git;a=patch;h=8faa5a287f4da05070eb1c16ca651bffd9d48e36 - apply this to your android source tree and build an android image | 09:53 |
| kjokinie | Aard: w00t: chriadam|away: https://github.com/nemomobile/ngfd/pull/16 | 09:54 |
| tablette | Stskeeps: okay, that's the worst case scenario unfolding before me... ah, allright I look into how Android is build because I have no Idea where to start. | 09:56 |
| Stskeeps | tablette: http://www.jayway.com/2012/10/05/setting-up-a-chroot-for-android-platform-development/ is very useful | 09:56 |
| tablette | Stskeeps: okay, seems like I could do that. | 09:58 |
| Stskeeps | tablette: this yields you a android build tree you then can use with libhybris later to get GPU acceleration etc | 09:58 |
| tablette | Stskeeps: okay, just looked at the sources. It's actually ICS but there is a unofficial Cyanogenmod port for my tablet. | 10:00 |
| Stskeeps | okay | 10:01 |
| tablette | cyanogenmod would be JB. | 10:01 |
| Stskeeps | perhaps better to use the cyanogenmod then, i would recommend flashing the end result to test it | 10:01 |
| tablette | Stskeeps: this is the source, just posting for info https://github.com/christiantroy/android_device_ainol_elf2 | 10:04 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 10:04 |
| tablette | I'll check back when I got it. I expect it will take a few hours, days maybe. | 10:05 |
| Stskeeps | yep | 10:05 |
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| faenil | locusf, ping | 10:09 |
| faenil | locusf, have you tested OBS building before making PRs? | 10:09 |
| locusf | faenil: nope, only mb | 10:10 |
| faenil | locusf, I think you should do that, just to be sure you're not forgetting dependencies and the likes | 10:10 |
| locusf | faenil: ok will do | 10:11 |
| faenil | locusf, I will setup a webhook for you, it will do everything automagically, though you have to set the webhook URL in your repos settings | 10:11 |
| faenil | just that | 10:11 |
| locusf | faenil: is there a wiki page for this? | 10:14 |
| faenil | locusf, https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Development#With_tar_git_service | 10:15 |
| faenil | at least one commit per release must have [tag] prefix | 10:15 |
| faenil | basically, you set URL in github repo webhook settings, then I create the webhook for you, then you tag a new release on github...and the rest happens magically | 10:16 |
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| locusf | faenil: ok | 10:17 |
| faenil | locusf, but you have to make sure you have one tagged commit per release :) | 10:17 |
| faenil | so, you'll need some --amend :P | 10:17 |
| locusf | I did make them | 10:18 |
| locusf | w00t told me to | 10:18 |
| locusf | I used rebase -i | 10:18 |
| faenil | locusf, not in qmlmail? (or I missed them) | 10:18 |
| locusf | faenil: not qmailmail yes, I have yet to port it as I can't test it yet | 10:19 |
| locusf | see wiki | 10:19 |
| faenil | locusf, yeah I've read already | 10:19 |
| locusf | ok | 10:19 |
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| Hurrian | :o | 10:31 |
| Hurrian | the first Glacierified app! | 10:31 |
| Stskeeps | oh? | 10:31 |
| Hurrian | Stskeeps: the browser mockup! | 10:31 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 10:32 |
| locusf | faenil, what will be the webhook target repo? | 10:36 |
| locusf | or project that is | 10:36 |
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| sledgeSim | Hurrian, what do you think of its looks? the url bar mainly | 10:42 |
| Hurrian | sledgeSim: icons should be flat white, progress bar should be white, otherwise, I'm cool with it. | 10:43 |
| Hurrian | How would the tab list be brought up? | 10:43 |
| sledgeSim | Hurrian, from this: http://abload.de/img/preview-withoutulqfi.png ? | 10:43 |
| sledgeSim | don't know yet the navigational aspects, tbd | 10:43 |
| Hurrian | yep, looking at that | 10:43 |
| Hurrian | Do I pull down, or press the three-stripe button? | 10:43 |
| sledgeSim | that was my first | 10:43 |
| sledgeSim | question to Morpog_PC as well lol | 10:43 |
| sledgeSim | which I didn't ask :D | 10:43 |
| sledgeSim | we were discussing looks first mainly | 10:44 |
| Hurrian | For system apps, I'd like their settings to be placed in the Settings app. | 10:44 |
| Hurrian | Then we can expose an API to load settings panes into it, if the devs target us specifically. | 10:44 |
| Hurrian | Digging around per-app for settings isn't my thing. | 10:44 |
| Hurrian | Other notes: | 10:45 |
| Hurrian | Do people want the URL to be there in the navbar, or do people want the page title there, with the URL editable when you press it? | 10:46 |
| sledgeSim | Hurrian, point note taken | 10:46 |
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| sledgeSim | Hurrian, 00:04 < qwazix> It will rarely be beautiful (unless you're looking at a picture gallery) and there's no usability gain by reminding the user in what page he was | 10:53 |
| sledgeSim | also Hurrian what do you think about transparency of url bar? | 10:53 |
| sledgeSim | http://abload.de/img/preview-90percentosp79.png | 10:53 |
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| sledgeSim | for mere mortals - page name in url bar is better. for geeks - the -end part- of url is better :D | 10:59 |
| Hurrian | sledgeSim: mmm, understandable. | 11:03 |
| Hurrian | URL bar transparency isn't very important - not like it'll always be in view | 11:04 |
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| Hurrian | if transparency hurts usability, no harm in taking it out. | 11:04 |
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| faenil | locusf, well, I'd like to create webhook for all the ports | 11:42 |
| faenil | let me know when you've set the URL and on which repos | 11:42 |
| locusf | faenil: url to what? | 11:47 |
| faenil | webhook | 11:47 |
| faenil | on github repos settings | 11:47 |
| locusf | ok, whats the webhook url then? | 11:48 |
| faenil | read on the wiki link I sent you | 11:48 |
| locusf | ah you don't have m yet | 11:48 |
| faenil | ? | 11:50 |
| locusf | mistyped, I have a webhook url for qmlmaps now | 11:50 |
| locusf | I have clicked Test Hook but I don't get any visible feedback | 11:51 |
| faenil | normal | 11:51 |
| locusf | faenil: now I have hooks for qmlmaps, qmlgallery, qmlfilemucher | 11:52 |
| faenil | ok good | 11:52 |
| locusf | and qmlmusicplayer | 11:53 |
| faenil | locusf, now setup repositories https://build.merproject.org/project/repositories?project=home%3Alocusf | 11:53 |
| locusf | faenil: advanced or simple interface? | 11:53 |
| faenil | I'd use advanced, as I had problems with simple, WebUI on OBS is bugged | 11:54 |
| faenil | here's my setup https://build.merproject.org/project/repositories?project=home%3Afaenil | 11:54 |
| faenil | but you don't need all archs of course | 11:54 |
| locusf | ok got em | 11:57 |
| locusf | cibot as maintainer too | 11:57 |
| faenil | locusf, you need i486 for the VM | 11:58 |
| faenil | and armv7hl, possibly, for n950 | 11:58 |
| locusf | faenil: ok, added i486, will add armv7hl | 11:58 |
| faenil | ok | 11:59 |
| faenil | once you're done | 11:59 |
| locusf | ok got both | 11:59 |
| faenil | go to the repos on github | 11:59 |
| faenil | click on test webhook (previous attempt was void because I hadn't created the webhook yet) and then tag a new release | 12:00 |
| faenil | on the right branch | 12:00 |
| locusf | ok saw em on #mer-boss | 12:02 |
| Morpog_PC | hurrian,extened meni is brought up by menu button (which is active blue there) | 12:02 |
| locusf | faenil: right branch? | 12:02 |
| Morpog_PC | Hurrian, why should progress bar white? isn't active stuff all blue in your mockups? | 12:03 |
| Hurrian | Morpog_PC, so, pressing the menu button brings up the tab list? | 12:03 |
| Hurrian | about blue: valid point. Keep pressable controls blue, but animated, system UI stuff white, though. | 12:04 |
| faenil | locusf, well yeah, the one where the qt5 port is int o:D | 12:04 |
| Hurrian | Inactive controls should be greyish-silver, I guess. | 12:04 |
| locusf | faenil: ok | 12:04 |
| Morpog_PC | pressing it, moves urlbar down and exposes the 3 top tabs (tabs, privacy, sync). In the screenshot the tabs tab is active and shows the tablist. This area could expand more for privacy and sync. Settings button could jump you to system settings. | 12:05 |
| locusf | faenil: could you also put one for qmlmusicplayer? | 12:06 |
| faenil | locusf, sure | 12:07 |
| faenil | locusf, done | 12:08 |
| locusf | faenil: thanks | 12:09 |
| faenil | locusf, folderlistmodel | 12:09 |
| faenil | as well | 12:09 |
| faenil | let's create that one | 12:09 |
| locusf | ah yes | 12:09 |
| locusf | faenil: all passed thus far | 12:10 |
| faenil | good :) | 12:11 |
| faenil | so we can install those as well | 12:11 |
| faenil | folderlist created as well | 12:11 |
| locusf | yes and building them too | 12:13 |
| locusf | hmm folderlist failed | 12:13 |
| locusf | I thought it already went too smoothly :) | 12:14 |
| faenil | :) | 12:14 |
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| faenil | locusf, I think you forgot somethign :) | 12:17 |
| faenil | in qmlfilemuncher you added "Requires: nemo-qml-plugin-folderlistmodel-qt5" | 12:17 |
| faenil | but then in folderlistmodel you didn't change the package name, and you're just modifying the qt4 .spec file | 12:17 |
| locusf | faenil: https://github.com/nemomobile/nemo-qml-plugin-folderlistmodel/pull/3 | 12:18 |
| locusf | faenil: it didn't retrigger on tag push? | 12:18 |
| faenil | locusf, ok, but then you have to change the Requires on filemuncher :P | 12:19 |
| faenil | and other packages which may require it | 12:19 |
| locusf | faenil: ah indeed | 12:19 |
| faenil | I don't know why w00t proposed to drop the postfix, since that's a standard in Nemo :/ | 12:20 |
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| locusf | faenil: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Development#FAQ_2 <- what does this mean? | 12:21 |
| locusf | https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Development#FAQ <- this I meant | 12:21 |
| faenil | locusf, don't know | 12:21 |
| locusf | faenil: ok, since I didn't get a rebuild with new tag | 12:22 |
| faenil | I use github WebUI to tag :) | 12:22 |
| locusf | faenil: how do I retrigger build? | 12:22 |
| faenil | well usually new tag works | 12:23 |
| faenil | but I can retrigger from webhook UI | 12:23 |
| faenil | which package? filemuncher? | 12:23 |
| locusf | faenil: wait a moment | 12:23 |
| locusf | faenil: ok, so both filemuncher and folderlistmodel | 12:25 |
| locusf | faenil: thanks | 12:26 |
| faenil | np | 12:26 |
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| faenil | folderlist still fails | 12:27 |
| locusf | yeah | 12:27 |
| locusf | argh | 12:27 |
| locusf | forgot to update spec | 12:27 |
| faenil | forgot a pkgconfig maybe | 12:27 |
| locusf | faenil: does it do specify automatically then? | 12:28 |
| faenil | I don't know... | 12:28 |
| faenil | I usually do it manually | 12:28 |
| faenil | don't know if tar_git would do it automatically | 12:29 |
| faenil | anyway, you're using Qt5Declarative instead of Qt5Quick and Qt5Qml | 12:29 |
| locusf | yes | 12:29 |
| locusf | 5 succeeded | 12:31 |
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| faenil | locusf, you forgot to change the Requires of filemuncher? :D | 12:34 |
| locusf | in spec yes | 12:35 |
| faenil | did you rebuild? | 12:35 |
| locusf | yes | 12:36 |
| faenil | I wouldn't say so :D | 12:36 |
| faenil | https://build.merproject.org/package/view_file?file=_service%3Atar_git%3Aqmlfilemuncher.spec&package=qmlfilemuncher&project=home%3Alocusf&rev=73aa4454653ceaf52cb38bbf03d49b06 | 12:36 |
| locusf | hmm now it won't rebuild | 12:37 |
| faenil | locusf, are you always using the same release number? | 12:38 |
| locusf | faenil: yes | 12:38 |
| locusf | but I always git tag -d and then git push -f --tags | 12:38 |
| faenil | locusf, maybe that's why (just guessing) | 12:38 |
| faenil | anyway | 12:39 |
| faenil | doesn't matter I'll trigger from webui | 12:39 |
| locusf | thx | 12:39 |
| faenil | locusf, but, why did it succeed on OBS, if you were using a non-existent Requires? :/ | 12:40 |
| locusf | faenil: I have no clue :D | 12:40 |
| faenil | something must be providing that :/ | 12:40 |
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| locusf | yeah | 12:43 |
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| alterego | Is there anything that handles LPM currently? | 12:45 |
| faenil | don't know | 12:47 |
| alterego | I guess getting lipstick to do something might work. | 12:47 |
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| Hurrian | hmm, how /is/ the display switched into Low Power Mode? | 12:50 |
| Hurrian | on the N9, resolution clearly goes down as it shuts down subpixels | 12:50 |
| sledgeSim | and colourness | 12:50 |
| sledgeSim | i think it falls back to 2-bit (4 colour) CGA mode :D | 12:51 |
| Morpog_PC | i think it's 8 to 16 colors | 12:58 |
| Morpog_PC | refined browser mockup based on critics. Hurrian, qwazix, faenil, sledgeSim | 12:59 |
| Morpog_PC | http://abload.de/img/previeww9unt.png | 12:59 |
| locusf | wow | 13:00 |
| faenil | looks okay to me :) I'm not a graphics artist though | 13:01 |
| sledgeSim | can I say a nitpick :} | 13:01 |
| jukkaeklund | I fear that LPM mode is something closed stuff by Nokia.. | 13:01 |
| faenil | not saying it can't be improved :D | 13:02 |
| sledgeSim | Morpog_PC, looking good; back arrow should be taken from glacier, i.e. pure white (or the other way round - unified in short) | 13:02 |
| Stskeeps | you can switch display into LPM mode in /sys | 13:02 |
| Stskeeps | the magic behind it in HW, no clue | 13:02 |
| faenil | I'm leaving, town festival today :) see you tomorrow! | 13:03 |
| sledgeSim | have funil! :)) | 13:03 |
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| Morpog_PC | sledgesim, it is from glacier, just 75% opacity, pure white was a bit aggressive? | 13:04 |
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| sledgeSim | i know, it look to aggressive to me | 13:05 |
| sledgeSim | that's why i added "or the other way round" ;) | 13:05 |
| sledgeSim | i like your opacity of back and stop and settings | 13:05 |
| sledgeSim | Hurrian, ^ ? | 13:05 |
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| Morpog_PC | back stop and settings is same as back button | 13:05 |
| Hurrian | sledgeSim, Morpog_PC: looks good. | 13:05 |
| Morpog_PC | forward button is inactive in the shot and thus less opacity | 13:06 |
| Hurrian | so, pulling down on the URL bar pulls down the tab bar? | 13:06 |
| sledgeSim | Morpog_PC, you just said back is the same as back button ;P | 13:06 |
| Hurrian | Good idea rounding the favicons. | 13:06 |
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| Morpog_PC | it's actually not whole round | 13:07 |
| Hurrian | Although, one thing: | 13:07 |
| sledgeSim | so shall we dim the arrows in the rest of glacier Hurrian ? | 13:07 |
| Morpog_PC | it's a mask of webbrowser breeze icon | 13:07 |
| Hurrian | Why not make the site previews vertically rectangular? | 13:07 |
| Hurrian | Similar to the task-switcher view of the Glacier-Home. | 13:07 |
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| Hurrian | sledgeSim: dim them only when the background isn't pure black | 13:08 |
| Morpog_PC | hurrian, it could work with pulling down, I thought it should pull down by menu button press | 13:09 |
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| Morpog_PC | hurrian site previews = tabs? | 13:09 |
| Hurrian | Morpog_PC: ah. it's confusing - 3 stripes means settings modal, showing tab bar should be two squares (see the iOS 5/6 icon for this) | 13:09 |
| Hurrian | Yep, site previews are as good as tabs. | 13:09 |
| sledgeSim | Hurrian, undimmed arrow on black background is too agressive - what we just raised with Morpog_PC | 13:10 |
| Morpog_PC | oh ok, for settings I got that gear icon | 13:10 |
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| alterego | Hurrian: there's a file in sysfs that toggles LPM | 13:10 |
| Hurrian | alterego: ah. | 13:10 |
| Hurrian | sledgeSim: ah, well, testing it on the N9's LED screen - yep, too strong a contrast. | 13:11 |
| alterego | I was thinking of having some kind of LPM plugin system. Thought it'd be nice to have navigation in LPM and other things. | 13:11 |
| Morpog_PC | Hurrian, what do you mean by "site previews vertically rectangular"? | 13:11 |
| Hurrian | Morpog_PC: check the task switcher view for Glacier Home | 13:12 |
| sledgeSim | "portrait" | 13:12 |
| Hurrian | yep | 13:12 |
| Morpog_PC | hurrian, I used 75% opacity for you as a reference | 13:12 |
| Morpog_PC | and 25% for inactive | 13:12 |
| Hurrian | Morpog_PC: looks good enough - not bright enough to hurt at night, but still white enough to be a control | 13:13 |
| Hurrian | make sure it doesn't look like an Inactive Control | 13:13 |
| Morpog_PC | vertically takes alot of space wouldn't it? | 13:14 |
| Hurrian | makes more room horizontally, though | 13:14 |
| Hurrian | and it's a "drawer", so it'll only be active when you pull up the tab view | 13:14 |
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| Morpog_PC | it would allow bigger previews | 13:15 |
| Hurrian | an overview of the site, yeah - you don't necessarily need to read the text up top in a preview | 13:17 |
| Morpog_PC | btw favicons has 3 modes, big favicons get masked, no favicon gets a default gray breeze icon and small favicon gets displayed on top of a dimmed gray breeze icon | 13:17 |
| Hurrian | Looks good. I assume the middle screen is the browser's "start screen" ? | 13:18 |
| Morpog_PC | no, it's the screen when you touch urlbar | 13:19 |
| Hurrian | ah. | 13:19 |
| Morpog_PC | browser start screen would be a mix between most viewed and speed dials | 13:19 |
| Hurrian | Speed dials! :D | 13:19 |
| Morpog_PC | aren't they called like that? | 13:20 |
| Hurrian | yep, love the look of those. | 13:20 |
| Morpog_PC | :) | 13:20 |
| Hurrian | Morpog_PC: you do know what I'm getting at with the Glacier Home multitasking view, right? | 13:20 |
| Hurrian | screenshot of app, icon center-bottom, text below icon? | 13:20 |
| Morpog_PC | thirc screen on top | 13:21 |
| Morpog_PC | third | 13:21 |
| Hurrian | Yep. | 13:21 |
| Morpog_PC | wait, or 2nd row 3rd? | 13:22 |
| Hurrian | 2nd row, 3rd col | 13:22 |
| Morpog_PC | like harmattan? | 13:22 |
| Hurrian | I guess a 3-site-per-row layout would be good for speed dials? | 13:22 |
| Hurrian | Like Harmattan, but tweaked. | 13:22 |
| Hurrian | I'd say it's more like Auxo, or OS X's Mission Control. | 13:22 |
| Morpog_PC | 3x3 sounds fine for speed dial | 13:22 |
| Hurrian | Morpog_PC: how the tab previews should kinda-look-like: http://media.idownloadblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Auxo-1024x751.jpg | 13:23 |
| Morpog_PC | aaah, now I understand, lol | 13:24 |
| Morpog_PC | so still horizontally aligned but shaped vertically? | 13:24 |
| Hurrian | Yep. | 13:24 |
| Morpog_PC | I thought you meant vertically aligned :) | 13:24 |
| Hurrian | oh, and where Glacier's multitasking view was taken from: | 13:24 |
| Hurrian | http://i.i.cbsi.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2011/07/20/4_OSX_Lion_Mission_Control_610x343.png | 13:25 |
| Morpog_PC | expose :) | 13:25 |
| Morpog_PC | Ok, will do some more changes and add the start page | 13:26 |
| qwazix | Hurrian, Morpog_PC, i like the idea of vertical previews. Can we put the title on top rather than the bottom? | 13:29 |
| Hurrian | qwazix: it'd make it inconsistent with the rest of the system though :/ | 13:29 |
| Morpog_PC | btw, hurrian, the 3 tab icon is not only opening tabs, you can hoose there privacy and sync too | 13:29 |
| qwazix | hmmm... I was thinking to have a mode where only the tab titles would be visible | 13:29 |
| sledgeSim | also guys don't forget the thumb stretching - to get to top url bar ;) | 13:30 |
| qwazix | for quick switching | 13:30 |
| sledgeSim | or is it where we could use ContextRoller ;) | 13:30 |
| qwazix | sledgeSim, that's a toughie | 13:30 |
| Hurrian | Morpog_PC: What's in "privacy" and "sync"? | 13:30 |
| Morpog_PC | I still like toilet paper roller more :) | 13:30 |
| qwazix | bottom bar can solve this but it's very hard to do automatic fullscreen then | 13:30 |
| sledgeSim | or put top url bar as bottom bar instead | 13:30 |
| Morpog_PC | hurrian, privacy has private tabs and sync has mozilla sync settings | 13:31 |
| Hurrian | mmm. | 13:31 |
| Hurrian | how about putting private tab previews under the regular tabs? | 13:32 |
| Hurrian | swipe left to right to get regular tabs | 13:32 |
| Hurrian | then swipe down to see the "hidden" private tabs | 13:32 |
| Hurrian | I thought "privacy" was privacy settings | 13:32 |
| Hurrian | And Sync can be hidden inside a menu | 13:32 |
| Morpog_PC | well, then there is no need for the top tabs at all | 13:33 |
| Hurrian | The Add Tab button should probably be a blank tab, to the very left of all other tabs | 13:33 |
| Morpog_PC | hurrian, the add tab is there because before there is the menu button at the same place | 13:33 |
| Morpog_PC | so you can basically do a double tap to add a tab | 13:34 |
| Hurrian | mmm. | 13:34 |
| Hurrian | Morpog_PC: could all system app settings be hidden inside the Settings app (like Harmattan, iOS)? | 13:35 |
| Morpog_PC | sure, but you still could do a shortcut to there from the app | 13:36 |
| Hurrian | app packages could install their own settings panes into some directory and then the Settings app would pick them up | 13:36 |
| Morpog_PC | so no need to swipe app away, open settings app, search for your app there and enter it's settings | 13:36 |
| Hurrian | mmm. | 13:36 |
| qwazix | Hurrian, I find the consolidated settings thing very bad design | 13:37 |
| Hurrian | Morpog_PC: in that case, Add Tab still stays at top-right, and Settings cog is below it, saving us the space of the tabs up top | 13:37 |
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| Hurrian | qwazix: not a fan of context-switching away from the app? | 13:38 |
| Hurrian | yeah, it has its problems | 13:38 |
| qwazix | Because some settings always have to be within reach (camera settings for example) and that already introduces inconsistency | 13:38 |
| Hurrian | ah. | 13:39 |
| qwazix | Also dev's usually don't bother to create system control panel applets and this makes the inconsistency even greater | 13:39 |
| Morpog_PC | thats true, happened like 98% on harmattan | 13:39 |
| qwazix | having some apps with in-app settings and others with control panel settings | 13:39 |
| Morpog_PC | i can count the apps on my fingers that use settings app for its settings | 13:40 |
| sledgeSim | Hurrian was referring to only system apps having cpanel settings | 13:40 |
| Morpog_PC | well, is a browser a system app or a stock app? | 13:40 |
| sledgeSim | :D | 13:40 |
| qwazix | Apple got away with it because they scrutinize each app before publishing and because devs know they are strict. We can't do that. | 13:41 |
| Hurrian | oh, yeah, regarding that, it'd be cool if users could change default apps. | 13:41 |
| sledgeSim | (like browser ;P) | 13:41 |
| qwazix | sledgeSim, still more inconsistency | 13:41 |
| sledgeSim | hm tru, settings should be only system wide settings | 13:42 |
| sledgeSim | accounts app+its settings fall into grey area then | 13:42 |
| qwazix | sledgeSim, accounts app shouldn't be an app | 13:42 |
| qwazix | it should be a control panel applet | 13:42 |
| sledgeSim | (and it is now? | 13:42 |
| sledgeSim | (and it is now) | 13:42 |
| qwazix | I think it is in the latest image, yes | 13:43 |
| sledgeSim | we'll talk about accounts some later time | 13:43 |
| sledgeSim | :) browser now | 13:43 |
| Morpog_PC | well, those are questions that all apps should be settled for | 13:44 |
| sledgeSim | so, should avoid clogging up settings app with other apps' panels | 13:45 |
| qwazix | sledgeSim, regarding url bar the problem with the end of url is security (might be vulnerability to phishing) | 13:45 |
| sledgeSim | and have guideline that app has to have an easy reachable settings button (a gear) | 13:45 |
| sledgeSim | well, qwazix i was just geeky because many times i knew what i was browsing, i was interested in parameters insteda | 13:46 |
| sledgeSim | so we coul left-align with /?... url bit | 13:46 |
| sledgeSim | (i.e. the first forward slash) | 13:47 |
| sledgeSim | but thats again for a geekphone again | 13:47 |
| qwazix | I would do something like http://releases.nemomobile.org/something becomes in the url bar nemomobile.org - Page Title | 13:47 |
| qwazix | so that the top level domain is always shown for security reasons, and the title of the page for knowing exactly where you are | 13:47 |
| sledgeSim | yup | 13:48 |
| sledgeSim | that was originally on glacier mockup | 13:48 |
| sledgeSim | page title - top.level.domain | 13:48 |
| sledgeSim | swap the two, because domain name is usualy shorter | 13:49 |
| sledgeSim | +1 qwazix | 13:49 |
| sledgeSim | (/me imagines requests coming in for gmail unread count bit :D ) | 13:49 |
| sledgeSim | or trim the page title | 13:50 |
| qwazix | that's in the title isn't it? | 13:50 |
| Hurrian | not just that - IIRC firefox glows tabs when something changes | 13:50 |
| Hurrian | that could be neat | 13:50 |
| sledgeSim | |(1) Inbox - Gmail mail.google.com| | 13:50 |
| Morpog_PC | page title I would add under, they are very long most times | 13:51 |
| sledgeSim | although full page title tis "(1) Inbox - Gmail youremail@blablabla" | 13:51 |
| qwazix | Hurrian, another reason we should have a mode with the tabs visible and the page interactive at the same time | 13:51 |
| qwazix | ah and another thing, that I still haven't found a good solution in any mobile I've used | 13:51 |
| Hurrian | qwazix: pulling down the tab bar should keep the page interactive, but selecting a tab, or pressing the tab drawer button closes out the tab bar | 13:52 |
| Hurrian | no big. | 13:52 |
| qwazix | we should have open new tab *and* open new tab in the background | 13:52 |
| sledgeSim | |(1) Inbox - Gmail… mail.google.com| | 13:52 |
| sledgeSim | you could also fade out instead of … | 13:53 |
| qwazix | It probably isn't very popular, but I like the Nokia idea that browser opens new system windows instead of tabs, can we have this option, even as an about:config pref? | 13:53 |
| Morpog_PC | could be a setting, not sure how many memory that sucks though | 13:54 |
| sledgeSim | it's gecko, i hope it could without eating memory | 13:54 |
| Morpog_PC | lol | 13:54 |
| sledgeSim | need to ask at #embedlite | 13:54 |
| sledgeSim | at irc.mozilla.org | 13:54 |
| sledgeSim | where our cutefox authors sit | 13:55 |
| qwazix | why would it eat more memory? | 13:55 |
| sledgeSim | it would, if it's done wrong | 13:55 |
| sledgeSim | question: can it do it right? | 13:55 |
| Morpog_PC | well, qwazix sits there too for a long time :) | 13:55 |
| qwazix | (FYI that is the current behavior of cutefox) | 13:55 |
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| Morpog_PC | qwazix, just compared to tabs | 13:55 |
| Morpog_PC | I dunno which eats more mem | 13:55 |
| qwazix | these aren't more instances of the app, they are just more qt windows | 13:56 |
| qwazix | unless we do stupid androidy things like unloading inactive tabs from memory memory consumption should be about the same | 13:57 |
| Morpog_PC | Well, I think we should set a fixed behavior. Either new windows or tabs. Bot at the same time won't work well I guess on mobile | 13:57 |
| Morpog_PC | Both | 13:57 |
| qwazix | Morpog_PC, not at the same time. I was just thinking a hidden pref saying "open new windows instead of tabs : true/false" | 13:57 |
| qwazix | for those of us used to the maemo way of things | 13:58 |
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| sledgeSim | what's difficult about fullscreen and bottom url bar? | 14:14 |
| Morpog_PC | well, rest of glacier UI is top bar driven | 14:18 |
| sledgeSim | true.. which is a thumb stretcher! | 14:19 |
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| qwazix | sledgeSim, when the url bar is at the top you can let it hide when the user scrolls down and it feels natural, as it just goes away along with the top of the page | 14:23 |
| qwazix | this can't be done when the bar is at the bottom, and that's why bottom-bar browsers (bb10 and microb) either don't have full screen or have a button for it | 14:24 |
| sledgeSim | you enter url, press go (or enter), page loads, url bar stays, you scroll down, and push the url bar down ;) | 14:24 |
| sledgeSim | any (threshold-ed) swipe up bring bar up | 14:25 |
| qwazix | and then how do you reveal it again? | 14:25 |
| sledgeSim | same as top bar, but reverse | 14:25 |
| qwazix | :nod: | 14:25 |
| qwazix | It will feel a bit weird, pull down to make something come up from the bottom | 14:25 |
| sledgeSim | pull up | 14:25 |
| qwazix | pull up scrolls down, you'd have to reach the bottom of the page | 14:26 |
| sledgeSim | nope, with Morpog_PC we discussed yesterday | 14:26 |
| qwazix | also pull up happens much more often than pull down, you would end up having the url bar almost always visible | 14:26 |
| sledgeSim | new ff and android browsers have bar shown from top on any pull down | 14:27 |
| sledgeSim | i know that scrolling down happens more often | 14:27 |
| sledgeSim | so threshold could be adjusted | 14:27 |
| Morpog_PC | you shouldn't mix up pull down and scroll down | 14:27 |
| sledgeSim | it's not conventional, i agree | 14:27 |
| Morpog_PC | scroll down = pull up | 14:28 |
| sledgeSim | i'm not mixing it if you look closely ;) | 14:28 |
| sledgeSim | yes | 14:28 |
| sledgeSim | scroll up = pull down | 14:28 |
| Morpog_PC | i thought, maybe in mind | 14:28 |
| qwazix | I think it's gonna be difficult to discover, I don't mind being unconventional, but this feels unnatural to me | 14:28 |
| sledgeSim | all difference is that you see url bar when you don't want | 14:28 |
| sledgeSim | otherwise a thumb-stretcher-solver | 14:28 |
| sledgeSim | tradeoff ;) | 14:28 |
| Morpog_PC | what would you guys prefer as GO button? instead of stop and reload button in urlbar? | 14:29 |
| Morpog_PC | when opening browser you don't have to stop or reload | 14:29 |
| Morpog_PC | or just no button at all? | 14:29 |
| Morpog_PC | or reload button inactive? | 14:29 |
| qwazix | sledgeSim, I thought of another, more universal solution for thumb-stretching, but it's also a bit unconventional. Allow the whole canvas to be pulled down until it reaches the middle of the screen | 14:30 |
| sledgeSim | wow a windscreen wiper approach qwazix lol | 14:30 |
| qwazix | Morpog_PC, I think we should copy harmattan in that regard, | 14:31 |
| sledgeSim | Morpog_PC, for GO use a copy of a forward button? (also re-uses 'play' button metaphor) | 14:31 |
| Morpog_PC | sledgeSim, would interfere with back/forward button? | 14:31 |
| sledgeSim | and you go 'forward' into the url ;)) | 14:31 |
| sledgeSim | yes, it would create duplication | 14:31 |
| sledgeSim | but why not | 14:31 |
| sledgeSim | sly ;) | 14:31 |
| sledgeSim | or have like this: | 14:32 |
| sledgeSim | < x url.here > | 14:32 |
| sledgeSim | ;) | 14:32 |
| qwazix | I like this ^^ | 14:32 |
| Morpog_PC | harmattan doesn't show a button at all wehn opening startpage | 14:32 |
| sledgeSim | so when you click back/forward you dont misclick | 14:32 |
| sledgeSim | and forward stays for url input | 14:32 |
| qwazix | to make things clear, forward should become blue when urlbar is focused, and white otherwise | 14:33 |
| qwazix | but then what about reload? | 14:34 |
| sledgeSim | < 0 url.here > | 14:34 |
| Morpog_PC | hmm | 14:34 |
| qwazix | on the other hand go button is not really needed | 14:34 |
| qwazix | keyboard will be up so one can press enter (rebranded as go) | 14:34 |
| sledgeSim | yes, less thumb movements | 14:34 |
| qwazix | we could get rid of back/fwd too by using the gestures of the harmattan gallery (see last post in grog) but it will be quite hard to implement this in embedlite | 14:36 |
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| qwazix | (I tried to take a screenshot of the previous page with qt and keep it to make a safari(mac) style back animation on fremantle with embedlite and it isn't the easiest thing in the world) | 14:37 |
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| Merbot | phaeron lbt sage SR#401 waiting for review at https://build.merproject.org//request/show/401 | 15:04 |
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| Morpog_PC | So, worked on startpage and tabs. qwazix, hurrian, sledgeSim, faenil | 16:28 |
| Morpog_PC | http://abload.de/img/previewq4uj3.png | 16:28 |
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| Morpog_PC | can I twitter that mockup? | 16:29 |
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| alterego | Morpog_PC: I imagine the "Touch to enter web address" should be a bit greyed down. | 16:34 |
| alterego | As it's place holder text. | 16:34 |
| Morpog_PC | true | 16:34 |
| Morpog_PC | thx | 16:36 |
| sledgeSim | 14:09 < Hurrian> Morpog_PC: ah. it's confusing - 3 stripes means settings modal, showing tab bar should be two squares (see the iOS 5/6 icon for this) | 16:37 |
| sledgeSim | (the menu button) | 16:37 |
| sledgeSim | i like this more and more! \o/ | 16:37 |
| Morpog_PC | well, it doesn't only reveal tabs, but also privacy, sync, settings button, new tab button | 16:37 |
| Morpog_PC | so it's kinda a menu isn't it? | 16:38 |
| sledgeSim | ehrmmm yes point made :) | 16:38 |
| sledgeSim | and in there we will also add harmattan relics | 16:39 |
| sledgeSim | bookmark, share, pin to desktop | 16:40 |
| Morpog_PC | hmm, well but firefox also has 2 squares and has same settings as I have, hmmmm | 16:40 |
| sledgeSim | bare necessities ;) (although i -barely- used pin to desktop :) | 16:40 |
| Morpog_PC | let'S see how iOS icon looks like | 16:40 |
| sledgeSim | chrome has stripes :) | 16:40 |
| Morpog_PC | almost same as firefox icon | 16:41 |
| Morpog_PC | well, shall I replace it or not? | 16:41 |
| Morpog_PC | it shows also how much tabs you have | 16:41 |
| Morpog_PC | not that bad | 16:41 |
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| Morpog_PC | screw it, I replace it :) | 16:41 |
| * sledgeSim thinks either one is fine | 16:41 | |
| sledgeSim | lol | 16:42 |
| Morpog_PC | I could replace the gear icon with the menu icon :) | 16:42 |
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| sledgeSim | that's where we need guidelines ;) | 16:43 |
| sledgeSim | i think we need to put up guideline open questions somewhere (etherpad?) | 16:43 |
| sledgeSim | and in the end it will rule them all :)) | 16:44 |
| Morpog_PC | lol | 16:44 |
| Morpog_PC | guidelines sounds good | 16:44 |
| sledgeSim | first question: gear or menu icon for settings | 16:44 |
| alterego | screwdriver :P | 16:46 |
| sledgeSim | and pliers :)) | 16:46 |
| sledgeSim | i think stripes means menu | 16:47 |
| sledgeSim | not settings | 16:47 |
| sledgeSim | gear means settings | 16:47 |
| sledgeSim | menu can be anything | 16:47 |
| Morpog_PC | well yeah | 16:48 |
| Morpog_PC | but in menu there could be more stuff like settings, about, etc. | 16:49 |
| Morpog_PC | in settings there should be only settings | 16:49 |
| sledgeSim | ah that depends on the looks of that screen | 16:49 |
| sledgeSim | which we haven't masterminded yet ;) | 16:49 |
| sledgeSim | android settings has about | 16:49 |
| sledgeSim | :))) | 16:49 |
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| Morpog_PC | I like tabs, but could get crowded with two many pages | 16:50 |
| Morpog_PC | two, lol --> too | 16:50 |
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| qwazix | Morpog_PC, how can the user access the speed-dial other than the first time he enters the app? | 17:02 |
| qwazix | I find the fact that on firefox mobile you can't do that at all unless you close all the tabs frustrating | 17:03 |
| Morpog_PC | by opening new tab maybe? or add a home button somewhere | 17:03 |
| qwazix | and then there's the other thing, do we really need the two different screens 1 and 3 in your mockup? | 17:04 |
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| qwazix | they pretty much have the same functionality | 17:04 |
| qwazix | My proposition is to replace the most viewed tab with your start screen and call it quick destinations or something | 17:05 |
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| Morpog_PC | well, urlbar is active there and beyboard hides stuff | 17:05 |
| Morpog_PC | keyboard | 17:06 |
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| qwazix | make it 4 tabs maybe then? | 17:06 |
| qwazix | speed dial on the left with a small icon like : : | 17:07 |
| qwazix | have this active on launch, and new tab, and the most viewed one when keyboard is active | 17:07 |
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| Morpog_PC | hmmmmm | 17:07 |
| Morpog_PC | purpose of 3rd screen is to have most space visible for urlbar | 17:08 |
| Morpog_PC | so you see what you enter | 17:08 |
| qwazix | what I'm saying doesn't change that | 17:08 |
| qwazix | I'm saying change the tab bar to be like | : : | Most Viewed | Bookmarks | History | | 17:09 |
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| Morpog_PC | yeah, I understand. Need to think about it. | 17:10 |
| qwazix | and btw, I vote leaving the shapes of the buttons as is | 17:12 |
| Morpog_PC | buttons? shapes? | 17:14 |
| Morpog_PC | menu button? | 17:14 |
| Morpog_PC | just replaced em all... | 17:14 |
| Morpog_PC | http://abload.de/img/unbenanntaxuv3.jpg | 17:15 |
| Morpog_PC | I kinda like it | 17:16 |
| qwazix | hm, I think the old one was better. Because that is not only the tab bar but access to everything | 17:20 |
| Morpog_PC | but with that icon, you can see if you got other tabs open | 17:20 |
| Morpog_PC | without opening the view | 17:20 |
| qwazix | so what? useless info | 17:20 |
| Morpog_PC | not when links open in backround in a new tab and you wonder why nothing happens :) | 17:21 |
| qwazix | we should provide a cue in that case anyway (glow the button or something) | 17:22 |
| qwazix | I wouldn't remember the old number anyway to notice a bump of 1 | 17:22 |
| qwazix | or anyone for that matter | 17:22 |
| Morpog_PC | well, I got the old layers just deactivated, so we can quickly change back to menu icon. Lets see what others say. | 17:23 |
| qwazix | okay | 17:23 |
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| Morpog_PC | qwazix, I added your idea, have a look? | 19:06 |
| Morpog_PC | http://abload.de/img/preview28lu57.png | 19:06 |
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| qwazix | Morpog_PC, I think it's good, what do you say? | 19:24 |
| Morpog_PC | yeah, I like it too, as the main urlbar is samne size now everywhere | 19:25 |
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| Morpog_PC | not sure about the house icon though :) | 19:25 |
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| Morpog_PC | Hurrian, sledgeSim any comments to latest version? http://abload.de/img/preview28lu57.png | 19:28 |
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| Morpog_PC | qwazix, maybe nemo logo instead of house logo? | 19:31 |
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| qwazix | nah, it'll look like it'll go to nemomobile.org | 19:36 |
| qwazix | either house or 4 squares a'la opera speed dial icon | 19:36 |
| Morpog_PC | ok | 19:36 |
| qwazix | or maybe the icefox icon | 19:39 |
| qwazix | but I think the home is good, and easy to guess | 19:39 |
| qwazix | movie time. cya later | 19:40 |
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| Morpog_PC | cya | 19:42 |
| Morpog_PC | qwazix, maybe later (or others) http://abload.de/img/unbenannt9ku4x.jpg | 19:43 |
| Morpog_PC | looks better imho | 19:43 |
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| sledgeSim | niiice :) | 21:28 |
| sledgeSim | i like™ :) | 21:28 |
| Morpog_PC | full preview with icon updated http://abload.de/img/previewsxuyw.png | 21:30 |
| sledgeSim | good stuff | 21:30 |
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| sledgeSim | tweet tweet? :D | 21:31 |
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| Morpog_PC | I did already :) | 21:31 |
| Morpog_PC | but with old icon | 21:31 |
| Morpog_PC | you can retweet or do a new one with latest preview if you want | 21:31 |
| sledgeSim | i'm in love with both icons :D | 21:31 |
| sledgeSim | tbh | 21:32 |
| Morpog_PC | well the house one I hust recycled from my QmlMozBrowser icons :) | 21:32 |
| sledgeSim | but you know, it looks homy :D | 21:32 |
| Morpog_PC | the new one looks more modern | 21:33 |
| detrout | That's a nice looking mobile browser | 21:33 |
| sledgeSim | ic | 21:33 |
| Morpog_PC | are you maintaining @nemomobile twitter account? | 21:33 |
| sledgeSim | yup | 21:34 |
| Morpog_PC | ah :) | 21:34 |
| sledgeSim | i can put up with latest icon then | 21:34 |
| Morpog_PC | well, feel free :) | 21:34 |
| sledgeSim | how you say, without homy icon :) | 21:34 |
| Morpog_PC | Poor guy who has to implement this into code, lol | 21:34 |
| sledgeSim | :DDD | 21:35 |
| sledgeSim | was thinking the same | 21:35 |
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| sledgeSim | will come to you with fury :D | 21:35 |
| Morpog_PC | yay, without home icon | 21:35 |
| sledgeSim | ok | 21:36 |
| sledgeSim | got an idea for a nice tweet ;) | 21:36 |
| sledgeSim | sec | 21:36 |
| Morpog_PC | don't upload via twitter pic, it downsamples the pic.... | 21:37 |
| sledgeSim | i know ull c ;) | 21:38 |
| sledgeSim | cheers though :) | 21:38 |
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| sledgeSim | Morpog_PC, https://twitter.com/NemoMobile/status/368125617364951040 | 21:44 |
| sledgeSim | :) | 21:44 |
| Morpog_PC | nice, thx :) | 21:44 |
| sledgeSim | thank you! | 21:44 |
| sledgeSim | & Co; well done | 21:44 |
| Morpog_PC | nemo will look awesome when all apps are ported to glacier UI :) | 21:45 |
| sledgeSim | was thinking the same :) | 21:46 |
| sledgeSim | but also | 21:46 |
| sledgeSim | current ui is quite thumb stretching | 21:46 |
| sledgeSim | so will be a good toughy this one | 21:47 |
| sledgeSim | or we'll just run it on <=4.5in screens :D | 21:48 |
| sledgeSim | could implement sailfish tabs navigation | 21:48 |
| sledgeSim | that one does not have to stretch to the top to go back/forward through app's screens | 21:49 |
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| sledgeSim | i guess it's been a long day for you Morpog_PC , sleep well deserved in order :D | 21:51 |
| sledgeSim | *past couple of days | 21:51 |
| Hurrian | Morpog_PC: looks good! | 21:55 |
| Morpog_PC | sledgeSim, sorry, my sister called via skype from her holidays in Miami :) | 22:07 |
| Morpog_PC | well, sailfishos's swipe down to close is also a thumb stretcher | 22:07 |
| Morpog_PC | thx Hurrian | 22:08 |
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| faenil | crap, got disconnected while I was out | 22:39 |
| faenil | Morpog_PC, last preview looks good :) I vote for the house icon :D | 22:39 |
| Morpog_PC | too late :) | 22:39 |
| Morpog_PC | hehe | 22:39 |
| faenil | crap! :D | 22:40 |
| Morpog_PC | which latest preview are you refering to? I did a few latest ones today ;) | 22:40 |
| Morpog_PC | should be the latest http://abload.de/img/previewsxuyw.png | 22:41 |
| Morpog_PC | faenil, are you going to implement this in code? :D | 22:42 |
| * faenil hides | 22:42 | |
| Morpog_PC | :D | 22:42 |
| Morpog_PC | I'm sending the pics to my N9 now, wanan check how it looks on device :) | 22:43 |
| faenil | though I have to say I don't like the look of the tabs very much :) | 22:44 |
| faenil | I see :) | 22:44 |
| Morpog_PC | well, they are minimalistic | 22:44 |
| faenil | well, I love WP's UI, so, I'd say that's not the problem :D | 22:44 |
| Morpog_PC | If hurrian implements other tabs in glacierUI, then I will replace them | 22:45 |
| faenil | but maybe it's just a matter of getting used to it :) | 22:45 |
| Morpog_PC | it was just my idea of tabs | 22:45 |
| faenil | sure ;) thanks for prototyping | 22:45 |
| Morpog_PC | smaller than I thought in device | 22:47 |
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