Thursday, 2013-09-19

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UninstallStskeeps: we have a fresh and new gcc waiting for a review09:10
Uninstall(good morning)09:10
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Uninstalllbt: hello13:01
Uninstallare you here?13:01
lbtUninstall: hey13:01
Uninstalllbt: I'm a bit woried about the number of reviews that are pending in our review board13:02
Uninstalllbt: there are several reviews that have no feedback13:02
lbtUninstall: I agree13:02
Uninstalland it is not clear if they are not accepted because they are bad or just lack of interest13:02
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lbtyep13:03
lbtI suspect that we're seeing the problem of pressure from the commercial side and a limited number of people dedicated to Mer core13:03
Uninstalllbt: http://review.merproject.org/#change,1168 <-- this is a good example, this one has been there for a long time, it should work but it is still there13:04
lbtand we've not really worked out how to scale up the number of maintainers13:04
Stskeepsthe real problem is the problem of branchability; so that there's tight deadlines in some commercial projects, which should have been possible to branch but our infra didn't allow; so big merges are risky13:04
Stskeepsi've been working yesterday to help to solve this13:04
Stskeepsie, a gcc4.6->gcc4.8 move can kill a product certification, as an example13:05
UninstallStskeeps: sure, I'm not talking about that13:05
Stskeepsall the commits look good13:05
UninstallI mostly talk about smaller changes13:05
lbtUninstall: yep - but when you make a change to something in the tooling it or just lower down it has big knock-on impacts13:06
lbtI think we discussed branching in spain didn't we13:06
Uninstallno, I don't think so, maybe you talked about that with drf__13:07
lbtcould be13:07
Uninstallwhat about sailfishos? How many of them are already updated in sailfishos and not in mer?13:08
lbtpretty sure it's none13:08
Stskeepspretty much none, excepting the mer:qt overlay which is scheduled to go away as branching can happen13:08
Stskeepsas some of the things in that mer:qt overlay may break other things13:09
lbtin fact I think one of the issues we're seeing is that we're stalling in core development as a key player needs a stable core and as Stskeeps says, we don't have a decent branch solution for the full core13:09
Stskeepsthe original model was such that the branching would happen at the vendor, through custom tools for let's say, mds13:10
Stskeepsand run their own 'core programmes' but that was never developed a lot13:10
Stskeepsand it was too rough to practically do/follow13:11
lbt*nod*13:12
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Uninstallis it possible to check out if there are some changes that can be safely merged without any problem?13:12
UninstallI mean stuff like iso-codes that are just regular updates13:12
Stskeepsprobably yes -- and there's a bigger focus on us getting mer infra back into shape now too13:13
lbt:)13:13
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lbtfrankly I'm starting that with some true infra fixes - monitoring, security updates and other sysadmin13:14
Stskeeps:nod:13:14
Stskeepsand i'm pursuing the branchability side -- in the end, mer is a collection of sw13:14
Stskeepsthat work together in a stable manner13:15
lbtI do wonder how that's handled at the package level - I'd planned to allow per-core_branch packaging branches13:17
lbtso the git repos didn't need forking13:17
lbtand that would allow cherry picking too13:17
lbt~13:18
Stskeepsfirst lesson of _service files, don't make it hook up to http://review.merproject.org/p/13:20
Stskeepswow..13:20
Stskeeps:P13:20
lbtand are we killing gerrit ?13:23
Uninstallhttp://review.merproject.org/#change,1578 <--- this one should be really approved13:23
Stskeepswell, that certainly did the trick13:23
Stskeepsi fully agree13:23
Stskeepsi should sit down and run through these13:24
alteregoYou can delegate if you like ;)13:34
Stskeeps:nod:13:35
Stskeepsand people review too13:35
alteregoGiven a 7" 1080p screen, and how expensive they must be. Why on earth doesn't someone make a more modular device?13:35
Uninstallhttps://review.merproject.org/#change,1574 <--- this should go too13:35
Uninstallwe are fixing that warning adding that to every .ks file13:35
alteregoLike separate power and processing modules that just lock to the back of an OLED panel13:35
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lbtStskeeps: what did you do?13:42
Stskeepslbt: can i say stress test?13:42
Stskeepsalso, be, not cbe13:42
alteregoHah13:42
lbtyep13:42
lbtalterego: I want one of them13:43
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Stskeepslbt: file:///data/mer/packages-git/  + _service files pointing to it + 330 packages13:43
Stskeeps:P13:43
alteregolbt: me too ..13:44
alteregoHow often do you really need to change a computer screen?13:44
alteregoMaybe the next Jolla device should be a sandwich :P13:44
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alteregoObviously not ice cream ..13:44
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lbt:D13:44
alteregoFish finger sandwich?13:45
lbtmmmm with tartare sauce and butter13:46
lbtI'm hungry13:46
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alteregoYeah, me too ..13:46
alteregoChinese or Pizza ...13:46
lbtchinese13:46
alteregoGood choice, there's a really good noodle place that's openned up just down the road that does delivery.13:46
lbtbought a peking duck for tea this morning when we popped out13:46
alteregoEven comes in boxes!13:46
lbthehe13:47
cybettethose boxes are not Chinese!13:47
cybette(but probably made in China)13:47
alteregoHeh13:48
lbtwhat does chinese takeaway come in in china?13:48
cybetteplastic bags13:48
alteregoHey, it beats newspapers, that's what our local delicacy usually comes in ;)13:48
cybettechinese food usually have soup or gravy, those boxes wouldn't work13:49
lbtalterego: true - british cuisine comes wrapped in old newspapers !!13:49
alteregocybette: they're usually wax coated, at least in this particular case.13:50
UninstallStskeeps: by the way have you had the chance to test glib2 update?13:50
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alteregolbt: have some fish and chips, hands look like I've been in the mines :P13:50
alteregoUninstall: when did that happen? I've been using glib for quite a few things.13:51
StskeepsUninstall: not beyond that it didn't obviously blow up any packages during build13:51
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UninstallStskeeps: ok13:51
* jonwil wishes there was an option for fish & chips near me :(13:51
UninstallStskeeps: we are using a system with that version of glib2 and everything looks fin13:51
Uninstall*fine13:51
Stskeeps:nod:13:51
alteregoWorks for me.13:52
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Uninstallalterego: https://review.merproject.org/#change,153913:52
Uninstallalterego: that one is pending for review, it hasn't been updated yet13:52
alteregoI'm using btrfs13:52
alteregoOtherwise all the dbus stuff works fine13:53
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Uninstallalterego: how btrfs is related to glb2?13:53
Uninstall*glib213:53
alteregoThat patch included a fix for ext4,13:53
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alteregoSomething to do with file corruption, and it mentions something about dbus autogen code, but that stuff works fine for me.13:54
Uninstallalterego: it doesn't fix the filesystem ;) it just avoid some possible file corruption on some glib2 based software13:54
Uninstallalterego: yeah, they are some changes in glib213:54
alteregoYes, obviously, but I'm not using ext4 so how would I know that it works? :P13:54
cybettealterego: yeah possibly. still those boxes didn't originate from the East :)13:55
Uninstallalterego: well, a lof of software is built on glib2, so I would like to know if someone is using that version13:55
alteregoUninstall: is it not in next?13:56
Uninstallit is pending13:56
Uninstallpending for review, it hasn't been approved13:57
alteregoOoooo, I see, so I'm still on 2.32.413:57
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alteregoHas someone been looking at my designs again ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-2414944014:16
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Uninstalllbt: ping18:51
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lbtUninstall: pong19:09
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Uninstalllbt: I see that there some packages waiting for review with patches useful for sailfish19:51
Uninstalllbt: aren't you using any of them?19:52
lbtUninstall: I honestly don't know - Carsten said there was just one which was a workaround.19:56
lbtmy work on sailfish has mainly been on the SDK side - so I don't know what version of mer core packages are in use19:57
Uninstalllbt: http://review.merproject.org/#change,157619:57
lbtI do know they kick and scream if there's a patch they need and I'm slow doing a release ;)19:57
Uninstallthe point is that I'm trying to understand if that patch is useful, it has been already tested or if it needs to be discarded19:58
Uninstall(we should try to understand this for several reviews)19:59
lbtUninstall: all I can say is that the reviews in core have been neglected and carsten has said he'll put some time into it 'rsn'19:59
Uninstallok19:59
lbtI think I should pay more attention to that and see if I can help shoulder the burden20:00
lbthe's got a newborn too - so that has hit the amount of time available20:00
Uninstalllbt: anyway from a my personal point of view, if something works for sailfish and it has been tested there it means that it is good20:00
lbtI agree - but in general I think most sailfish code hits the external projects first20:00
lbtafaik most of the work is actually done in nemo/mer-core20:01
lbtobviously the current focus is on the higher levels of the OS at this point (the 'release a device this calendar year' schedule pretty much says that)20:02
fk_lxlbt: hi20:02
lbthey20:02
fk_lxhow's going?20:02
lbtUninstall: so my suggestion here is to try and replicate the regular bug-triages20:02
lbtand do a regular review triage20:03
lbtUninstall: how does midday on tuesdays sound?20:03
lbtfk_lx: it's going well - been looking after infra20:03
Uninstalllbt: it should be ok for me20:03
lbtfk_lx: you recovering?20:03
lbtUninstall: lets put that to carsten tomorrow20:04
Uninstallok, cool20:04
lbt(I'm not highlighting him as he's probably taking a family break ;) )20:04
Uninstalllbt: ;)20:04
Uninstalllbt: by the way I would also like to get my gcc tested with some testing sailfish build20:05
UninstallI would really like to know if it might break something there20:05
lbttalk to phaeron when he's around20:05
Uninstallok20:06
lbtfk_lx: it felt like things went pretty well :)20:06
fk_lxlbt: well I think I've recovered, especially that I'm going to Amsterdam to evangelize about Sailfish20:06
lbt*g*20:06
lbtare the videos up yet?20:07
Uninstallby the way anyone from novomok here?20:07
fk_lxlbt: well the istream is taking care of that, they wanted us to provide pdf's so probably they are already starting to work on them20:07
lbtUninstall: Bostik is .. and one or two others20:07
lbtfk_lx: oh yes, that was quite recent - seems like a week ago20:07
Uninstalllbt: ok, it would be cool to involve him to some review20:08
lbt+120:08
Uninstallby the way how things are going to jolla? any big event planned soon?20:11
lbtdid you miss the SDK update!!!20:11
fk_lxUninstall: big launch before the end of the year :-)20:11
Uninstallfk_lx: where is going to be the launch event?20:11
fk_lxUninstall: I guess in Finland20:14
fk_lxUninstall: Helsinki? Tampere?20:15
UninstallI have no idea ;)20:15
UninstallI would love to be in tamere again in winter20:15
fk_lx:-)20:15
UninstallI would like to see how Finland looks in winter20:15
Uninstall:D20:16
Uninstalllbt: by the way are you using wayland on the emulator now?20:22
lbtyes - since the last release20:22
lbt[ol]: ping .... why is /home/$user set to  --make-unbindable ?20:26
[ol]lbt: Do you mean my changes to use namespaces instead of explicit mer-sdk-chroot mount/unmount?20:29
lbtyes - that's semi-released now btw20:29
lbtit's in rolling at least20:29
[ol]lbt: Because it was like that before my changes. I didn't touch this part.20:31
lbtdamn20:31
[ol]Use «git blame». :-)20:31
lbtbut .... it always blames me20:32
[ol]Then blame yourself. :-)20:32
* lbt must write better comments20:32
lbtI have a feeling it was to avoid recursion20:32
lbtbut I think that problem is pretty much solved using unshare20:32
lbtI want to support running an sdk-like chroot of ubuntu inside the sdk20:33
lbtand was going to nest20:33
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Uninstalllbt: which driver did you use to get wayland working?20:59
aknightUninstall: mesa llvmpipe is used for the gl stack. the compositor uses qt eglfs and the clients use qtwayland21:01
Uninstallaknight: cool, I can't use eglfs on virtualbox, how did you get it working?21:01
aknightUninstall: well you need a working gl stack :) which means a software rasterizer in non x11 normally.21:02
aknightEGL_PLATFORM=fbdev, then it all just sort of works21:02
Uninstallaknight: ok, and are you using vesafb?21:03
aknighti don't have the emulator handy, but you can lsmod. i don't think it's vesafb21:04
Uninstallaknight: how can I ssh to the emulator?21:05
aknightUninstall: https://sailfishos.org/develop-faq.html21:07
aknightssh -p 2223 nemo@localhost21:07
Uninstallwhat is booster?21:09
Uninstallo.o21:09
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aknightbooster boosts qt apps21:09
aknightor silica apps rather21:09
aknightso they start up faster21:09
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Uninstallaknight: I never heard about it21:17
Uninstallit preloads qt and then start ups?21:17
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aknightUninstall: iiuc it loads qguiapplication + friends up to a certain point and forks the process, then continues on with the execution state of the app. but tbh i don't know much about the internals21:20
aknightso it gets the bootstrapping phase done very quickly21:20
Uninstallok21:22
Uninstallcool21:22
Uninstallanyway the driver is vesafb21:22
aknightUninstall: what was your spell to determine that?21:24
Uninstallaknight: how's the compositor called?21:24
aknightUninstall: lipstick21:24
Uninstallaknight: cat /boot/extlinux/extlinux.conf  ;)21:24
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aknightindeed. i had never really checked which driver is actually used. of course we use the fbdev winsys in mesa21:26
aknight=> fbdev egl platform21:26
Uninstallaknight: thank you21:33
aknightnp21:33
Uninstallaknight:  do you work for jolla, right?21:34
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aknightUninstall: guilty. i'm a contractor though21:35
aknightso helping out with open source bits21:36
Uninstallaknight: ah, ok21:39
Uninstall:)21:40
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