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| martyone_ | hi, when MeeGo community OBS is down, where is mer-tool available from? Now I have http://repo.pub.meego.com/releases/Mer-Tools/7.1.0/builds/i486/packages/ in the output of `zypper lr` | 06:44 |
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| dm8tbr | that's on mer wiki | 06:46 |
| martyone_ | dm8tbr: ok, I will search it once more time :) | 06:46 |
| chriadam | http://repo.merproject.org/obs/mer-tools maybe | 06:46 |
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| martyone_ | chriadam: exactly, thank you! :) | 06:47 |
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| kontio | martyone_: https://build.merproject.org/project/show?project=mer-tools%3Adevel https://build.merproject.org/project/show?project=mer-tools%3Atesting https://build.merproject.org/project/show?project=mer-tools%3Astable are the "live" repos if you need bloody edge stuff, repo.merproject.org has snapshots... | 07:05 |
| martyone_ | kontio: thanks :) | 07:07 |
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| dcthang | dont know why so it' not so many conversation here :-) | 07:46 |
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| martyone_ | I am trying to fix wiki where repo.pub.meego.org etc. is referred. I am not sure how to fix the example .ks file here? https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Quality/Tutorials/Testing_with_SDK_to_VM | 08:03 |
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| slaine | good moaning | 08:23 |
| sledges | martyone_, change into http://repo.merproject.org/obs/mer-tools:/stable/latest_i486/ and so on | 08:23 |
| sledges | (find it via https://build.merproject.org/project/show?project=mer-tools%3Astable -> Repositories -> (arch) -> Go to download repository | 08:23 |
| sledges | hello slaine :) | 08:24 |
| slaine | morning sledges | 08:24 |
| sledges | martyone_, same for mer-qa (from https://build.merproject.org/project/list_public ) | 08:24 |
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| martyone_ | sledges: but what about the other parts of the .ks file? is it all valid/up-to-date? wouldn't it be better to reffer to latest nemo vm .ks file as base? | 08:26 |
| sledges | sure martyone_ , you can do that with https://github.com/nemomobile/nemo-kickstarter-configs/ | 08:27 |
| martyone_ | sledges: ok, thanks | 08:30 |
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| sledges | thanks for updating the wiki martyone | 08:57 |
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| martyone | :) | 08:58 |
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| martyone | sledges: wouldn't it be an option to add "Nemo Adaptation VM Testable" (Inherit: Nemo Adaptation VM) to nemo-kickstarter-configs, i.e., to provide ready-to-use testable VM image on http://releases.nemomobile.org/snapshots/images/ ? | 09:05 |
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| sledges | martyone, good point, please raise with Sage on #nemomobile | 09:33 |
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| nwoki | hi guys, does anyone know where i can find the source code for the sailfish qt-creator? | 12:19 |
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| lbt | auri__: ^^ | 12:22 |
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| auri__ | nwoki: its still under dev and in a private repo | 12:33 |
| nwoki | ah, ok. Thanks auri__ | 12:34 |
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| nwoki | auri__: is the "build/deploy" plugin in a private repo as well? | 14:53 |
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| auri__ | nwoki: I'm sorry.. I did not understand your question | 15:08 |
| nwoki | qt creator allows to customize plugins | 15:08 |
| nwoki | these plugins usually are made to build and or deploy to devices | 15:08 |
| nwoki | for example the harmattan build plugin | 15:09 |
| nwoki | using the sailfish sdk, i can see that they have created their own | 15:09 |
| nwoki | do you know if this is somewhat open sourced? | 15:09 |
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| nwoki | the part i'm interested in is building an app and deploying it to a VM as sailfish does | 15:10 |
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| cybrNaut | is the Mer Project involved with Fairphone at all? | 15:10 |
| auri__ | nwoki: the build/deploy mechanism is implemented by each plugin eg: the remotelinux plugin or the android plugin or the blackberry plugin | 15:10 |
| auri__ | Similiarly the Mer plugin implements its own build and deploy for Mer devices | 15:11 |
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| nwoki | auri__: exactly, i wanted to take a look at that code | 15:12 |
| auri__ | the Build/Deploy configurations are in ProjectExplorer plugin.. If you want to implement for a particular device, you can write a custom plugin.. inherit the required classes and override the required functions | 15:12 |
| auri__ | nwoki: The remotelinux,a ndroid, blackberry are in qt-project .. so you can checkout from gitorious.. the Mer plugin is under active dev and hence in a private repo | 15:13 |
| nwoki | k, thanks auri__ :) | 15:14 |
| auri__ | nwoki: of course you can use the installers from sailfish.org too.. | 15:15 |
| auri__ | nwoki: https://sailfishos.org/develop.html | 15:15 |
| auri__ | The qt creator taht is shipped with the SDK has the Mer plugin and you should be able to build/deploy to a mer device (Nemo/Sailfish etc.) | 15:16 |
| nwoki | yeah, i need to create my own so i wanted some base code to look at | 15:19 |
| nwoki | thanks auri__ | 15:19 |
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| ajalkane | cybrNaut: FairPhone is Android so I don't see how Mer would be involved | 15:42 |
| cybrNaut | ajalkane: it's such a blur to me.. sailfishos, firefoxos, tizen, ubuntu phone, replicant, mer.. they're all claiming to be an "open source" phone os, and some of them are working together. And some of them run Android natively.. and some run Android in a VM | 15:44 |
| Stskeeps | and some uses the android HAL, some are based on android but different UI.. | 15:45 |
| Stskeeps | in practice android HALs are the only way forward | 15:45 |
| Stskeeps | on mobile devices but also much embedded | 15:45 |
| ajalkane | My understanding is that many of them use bottom layers of Android to get already existing Android drivers for the hardware | 15:45 |
| Stskeeps | it's really about where you stop and what your main system is, i guess | 15:46 |
| Stskeeps | i see android as a BSP framework that slipped into consumer hands by accident and grew, time to make it back to one | 15:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | :) | 16:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Also, the mk* cpu phones of a comparable stripe to fairphone are $200 or so | 16:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Running 4.2 | 16:20 |
| SpeedEvil | It's questionable what their 'special sauce' brings to it. | 16:22 |
| SpeedEvil | http://dx.com/p/gfive-g9-mtk6589-quad-core-aliyun-2-0-wcdma-bar-phone-w-5-7-ips-hd-screen-wi-fi-and-gps-black-213091 | 16:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | (is single sim) | 16:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Oops - wrong one | 16:23 |
| SpeedEvil | http://dx.com/p/w100-mtk6589-quad-core-android-4-2-1-wcdma-bar-phone-w-4-5-qhd-wi-fi-and-gps-white-215349 | 16:23 |
| Stskeeps | it's even crazier if you go to china and buy it.. | 16:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | The only interesting question to me about fairphone is that have they done anything special to get source. | 16:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Or is there source available for that class of phones. | 16:25 |
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| vgrade_ | SpeedEvil: I was told recently that alcatel had released at least kernel source for those | 16:35 |
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| vgrade_ | not checked though | 16:36 |
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| cybrNaut | ajalkane: i noticed fairphone.com states "We’re joining forces with open developer platforms like Ubuntu and FireFox to offer users the choice of OS upon purchase of the phone." - so even if a phone project cannot co-exist with an Android phone, there will be cooperation to encourage alternate OSs | 16:49 |
| cybrNaut | the Mer project should sign up for that | 16:50 |
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| ajalkane | cybrNaut: That's pretty great. I have no interest in FireFoxOS myself, but Sailfish and Ubuntu would be great | 16:59 |
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| ajalkane | If they offer Ubuntu or Sailfosh phones color me interested | 17:00 |
| ajalkane | * Sailfish | 17:00 |
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| lbt | FYI: rebooting mer OBS frontend | 17:05 |
| lbt | all done | 17:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | ajalkane: It depends what they can bring to the table. If they are just an outfit that's realised they can buy 5000 phones without bootloader locks, and put AOSP + hacks on them - and sell them for twice what they bought them for - then it's questionable. | 17:11 |
| ajalkane | SpeedEvil: If they bring open phones with Sailfish/Ubuntu I don't care what hacks they've used (assuming the phones work) | 17:12 |
| SpeedEvil | I question how much they've done in opening the phone. | 17:12 |
| SpeedEvil | At the lowest level this could be 'I read a thread on XDA that I can root them, and there is an AOSP build, let's make a website'. | 17:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Or it could be actually meaningful. | 17:13 |
| SpeedEvil | That is - stuff that is not publically available. | 17:13 |
| ajalkane | True that, and my cynical self is leaning on the former. But we'll see. | 17:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Part of my problem is that there is _way_ too much hype on the 'our aims' bit of the website. | 17:16 |
| ajalkane | Yeah I haven't actually looked at all to the FairPhone as it's Android. If it's confirmed to run Ubuntu or Sailfish I'll look at it more closely. | 17:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | Then there is the awkward issue it's exactly the same price as a nexus 4 16G | 17:21 |
| CosmoHill | the Jolla phone> | 17:22 |
| SpeedEvil | No - fairphone | 17:22 |
| SpeedEvil | http://buy-a-phone-start-a-movement.fairphone.com/en/fairphone-excl-charger.html | 17:22 |
| SpeedEvil | And the n4 comes with charger. | 17:23 |
| CosmoHill | two sim cards, double the features | 17:24 |
| CosmoHill | doesn't work like that | 17:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Quite. | 17:24 |
| SpeedEvil | 'other half double the features' :) | 17:24 |
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| CosmoHill | double the phone bill | 17:25 |
| ajalkane | I have no trouble supporting phones ideology I approve of even if their specs are not as good as some mainstream phones. | 17:25 |
| ajalkane | For example I'd rather buy Jolla's phone than Nexus 4 even if the hardware is worse and cost 2 times as much | 17:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | Quite. | 17:26 |
| ajalkane | Isn't the whole "fair-trade" movement quite like that anyway? | 17:27 |
| SpeedEvil | I would possibly rather just buy sailfish as an OS, for my n4. | 17:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Thogh I have preordered. | 17:27 |
| ajalkane | Well sure, me too... But I doubt it's going to go down like that, being able to buy Sailsfish to M4 | 17:28 |
| ajalkane | * N4 | 17:28 |
| cybrNaut | SpeedEvil: when comparing a socially responsible product to a popular brand from a corporation that has shareholders to please, don't expect feature-for-feature to measure up | 17:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | cybrNaut: Well, yes. | 17:29 |
| cybrNaut | Fairphone is the first socially responsible phone to emerge since teh geekphone | 17:29 |
| SpeedEvil | cybrNaut: That assumes that I believe the 'socially responsible' aspect to be meaningful over what google does. | 17:30 |
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| Stskeeps | jolla's socially responsible too, help take care of the many laid off workers from nokia | 17:30 |
| cybrNaut | of course, it's not just about the hardware capability, but the extent to which the user can actually use the product | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:30 |
| cybrNaut | the statement “If you can’t open it, you don’t own it.” appears on fairphone.com's site. | 17:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Statements are really quite easy to write. | 17:32 |
| cybrNaut | SpeedEvil: google is about pleasing shareholders.. which obviously compromises such a philosophy | 17:32 |
| ajalkane | I find writing statements the hardest part :) | 17:32 |
| cybrNaut | SpeedEvil: not for google | 17:32 |
| cybrNaut | if any other phone maker were to put that statement on their site, they would be expected to own up to it | 17:32 |
| SpeedEvil | What statement? | 17:33 |
| cybrNaut | “If you can’t open it, you don’t own it.” | 17:33 |
| SpeedEvil | That statement is almost so vague as to be meaningless. | 17:33 |
| cybrNaut | nonsense | 17:33 |
| cybrNaut | it's quite clear | 17:34 |
| cybrNaut | root access is blocked on all but 2 phones at the moment | 17:34 |
| SpeedEvil | I will, for example, bet large amounts of money that the wifi and bluetooth chip code is not open, nor is the GSM modem | 17:34 |
| cybrNaut | SpeedEvil: then you don't own it | 17:34 |
| SpeedEvil | On the fairphone | 17:34 |
| cybrNaut | SpeedEvil: sure, if something is closed on the fairphone, then you don't own it, and they would be falling short of their own vision | 17:35 |
| ajalkane | Yeah I bet the usual suspect are as closed as in any other phone. Ie. graphics card drivers, maybe WiFI/GSM code | 17:35 |
| SpeedEvil | It is extremely questionable if from a software POV - it's any opener than a n4 | 17:36 |
| ajalkane | * usual suspects. I write badly tonight. | 17:36 |
| ajalkane | Opening those blobs requires much bigger muscles than a smalltime player like FairPhone | 17:36 |
| cybrNaut | ajalkane: fairphone isn't working alone | 17:37 |
| SpeedEvil | I question that they are actually a player at all - it looks to me like a phone simply purchased from a chinese vendor. | 17:37 |
| cybrNaut | ajalkane: they have Mozilla | 17:37 |
| cybrNaut | and the ubuntu project, along with a few others | 17:37 |
| ajalkane | Mozilla is not a big muscle with money and influence to throw around | 17:37 |
| ajalkane | I'm agreeing with SpeedEvil, they're buying from chinese OEM (just like Jolla) and doing as much as they can to keep it open | 17:38 |
| cybrNaut | ajalkane: driver writing is not too complex for Mozilla | 17:38 |
| ajalkane | Of course they can prove my cynical expectations wrong | 17:38 |
| ajalkane | Reverse engineering hardware is not something you do by weekend. Mozilla has lots of other things to do. I don't believe them reverse engineering the hardware. | 17:39 |
| cybrNaut | ajalkane: the most commercial products out there often have drivers that were produced by a man in China who started with a generic driver and just hacked it until it worked | 17:39 |
| cybrNaut | drivers are cheap.. it's why you saw so many BSoDs on windows | 17:39 |
| ajalkane | I don't believe in this. I'm happy if I'm shown otherwise. | 17:40 |
| cybrNaut | ajalkane: in the states, hardware is often /free/, with a cheap driver. | 17:40 |
| cybrNaut | or is should say, free driver.. was cheap to develop | 17:41 |
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| Stskeeps | facts of life in mobile: modem firmware is closed source, 3d drivers are either closed source or a RPC call wrapper to a remote processor, x11 is dead and no, you can't have a driver for it | 17:42 |
| cybrNaut | it's really about motivation. If hardware comes with a closed source driver, OSS developers are unmotivated. | 17:42 |
| cybrNaut | but if a driver is outright missing, and necessary to make a piece of hardware work, the OSS community steps up | 17:42 |
| Stskeeps | oh and did you want the binaries for glibc? no! we only provide for bionic? | 17:42 |
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| cybrNaut | i have the source code for a video capture card driver, where the hardware maker flipped the OSS community the bird | 17:47 |
| cybrNaut | Plextor would not cooperate, yet some basement developer could produce source code for a working driver | 17:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Reverse engineering some parts is extremely challenging. | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | And - fundamentally going forward may not get you anything if bootloader locking gets done right. | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | That's in some ways the more important fight. | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Bootloaders that are unlockable due to a bug are one of the biggest risks to software freedom out there. | 17:50 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: when installing a new systemd unit which links to a .wants ... is it supposed to start automatically on daemon-reload? | 17:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | Because they mean that people who would otherwise purchase unlocked devices buy locked ones and unroot them - meaning there is no market for unlocked devices. | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: unsure | 17:51 |
| lbt | will ask | 17:52 |
| cybrNaut | here's an open source bt driver => http://sourceforge.net/projects/hciusb/files/ | 17:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Driver is not BT chip firmware. | 17:52 |
| SpeedEvil | There were on the n900 for example around a dozen microprocessors. | 17:53 |
| SpeedEvil | In terms of seperate cores, able to execute their own stored programs. | 17:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Three of these were open, and had source available | 17:54 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: no :) | 17:55 |
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| sledges | ahh finished backing up from COBS | 22:18 |
| sledges | :) | 22:18 |
| sledges | just in time! vgrade_ hope you won't loose any of your precious HAs :) | 22:19 |
| sledges | g'nite | 22:20 |
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| * lbt notes http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/Preset/ is interesting when it comes to package installation of services | 23:32 | |
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