Friday, 2013-02-22

CosmoHillI have a choice between using the track pad / wired mouse or charging the battery >.<00:06
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CosmoHillhi imunsie00:08
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lbtso it is05:56
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mikhasmy coffee told me the same06:45
iekkumy didn't yet, need more06:49
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CosmoHillsnow \o/08:58
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CosmoHillI have a day off but I forgot to turn off the alarm09:14
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AardCosmoHill: not using alarms when you don't have days off eliminates that problem :)09:15
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CosmoHillAard: means I get a productive day off :)09:32
CosmoHillon the other side, I have the discovery channel09:32
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mikhasAard, CosmoHill: never using an alarm solves the problem, too.09:48
Aardmikhas: that's what I meant.09:48
mikhasAard, ah yes, sneaky double negation!09:50
mikhasI hope you dont write code like that ;-)09:50
Merbotstefan_schmidt_w: Error: "!no" is not a valid command.09:51
Aardyour brain is just not up to the task :p09:51
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CosmoHillI found a line of code that went if() { do something} else { do same thing }09:58
CosmoHilli think it had been on my live site for over four years09:58
miklocekanyone knows how to get rid off "screen saver" on emulator ?09:59
CosmoHillput a hamster on the keyboard09:59
miklocekit gets on when ACPI shutdown is sent09:59
Stskeepsmiklocek: if nemo, acpi shutdown09:59
Stskeepsoh, rid of?09:59
Stskeepsthat's a little more complex :)09:59
miklocekStskeeps: how does it work exactly ?10:00
Stskeepsmiklocek: mce daemon10:00
spiiroinStskeeps: is mce in mer?10:01
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Stskeepsspiiroin: no, i think miklocek uses a nemo image10:01
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spiiroinStskeeps, miklocek: try "mcetool -Don" -> the automatic (timer based) display dimming/blanking is turned off10:02
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miklocekStskeeps: bingo , thanks a lot ! does the job10:02
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auri__veskuh: ping10:20
veskuhauri__, hi10:21
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* CosmoHill wants a bunny called Clash now13:47
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sardinihi all15:41
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Stskeepsali1234: so, objective first impressions on ubuntu phone?20:45
ali1234i don't like the swiping much20:45
ali1234especially that bottom menu stuff20:45
ali1234the photo app is a perfect example20:46
Stskeeps:nod: i could care less about ui, anybody can do a pretty ui these days :P wondering about technological basis20:46
ali1234i don't have much of an opinion on that at this point20:47
ali1234i'm not really sure how it even works20:47
ali1234they say it's using surface flinger20:47
Stskeepsthat it does20:47
ali1234i don't understand how that's possible :)20:47
ali1234did they patch qt?20:47
morphisali1234: magic :)20:47
Stskeepsali1234: libhybris, not terribly big magic20:48
morphisali1234: they have written their own QPA for this20:48
Stskeepsand yes, qpa for qt520:48
ali1234i mean i understand that libhybris gives access to these drivers20:48
ali1234what's a QPA?20:48
Stskeepsplatform backend for qt basically20:48
Stskeepsyou can do linuxfb, eglfs, xcb, etc..20:48
ali1234well it all seems logical20:48
ali1234later they can implement wayland on top of surface flinger or whatever20:49
Stskeepsmeh, why bother20:49
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Stskeepsjust use the in-built primitives20:49
Stskeepsand get real wayland going20:49
ali1234well ok20:49
ali1234what i mean is, they don't have to carry on using surface flinger20:49
ali1234specifically maintaining a qt backend for it directly20:50
ali1234presumably they might want to run gtk at some point20:50
Stskeepsit's again with the firefox os argumentation, that leveraging android hw adaptation gives you shorter time to market20:50
ali1234well it certainly seems like that is true20:50
Stskeepspersonally i'm more of 'let's use as little as android as possible' fan20:51
ali1234but then what hardware have you got?20:51
ali1234raspberry pi?20:51
Stskeepsi've got a qualcomm, hp touchpad20:51
ali1234ubuntu won't even run on that20:51
Stskeepsah, you misunderstand20:51
Stskeepsi want to use as little of android services as possible20:51
ali1234services means what?20:52
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Stskeepslike running processes in an android chroot20:52
ali1234then how do you access the drivers?20:52
Stskeepslibhybris, link the shared libraries directly :P20:53
ali1234i think the point of using android chroot is *only* so they could just nick all the hardware stuff from cyanogen20:53
Stskeepsit's a little more than that though20:53
ali1234that opens up a lot of hardware20:53
Stskeepssupposedly there's a smaller number of processes running there20:53
Stskeepsbut i might be wrong, i didn't actually running it20:53
ali1234smaller than what?20:53
Stskeepssmall number of processes20:54
ali1234and "there" = where?20:54
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ali1234oh you mean in android?20:54
Stskeepsin the android chroot20:54
ali1234or, outside android chroot?20:54
ali1234*ubuntu chroot20:54
ali1234lol, confusing20:54
ali1234ubuntu is running in the chroot20:54
Stskeepsyeah, that's one of the more bizarre setups20:54
ali1234you;re saying some android stuff runs outside this, in the main system...20:54
ali1234yes, that's true i guess20:55
ali1234but android drivers are basically userspace daemons20:55
Stskeepsin -my- libhybris setups i just have /system copied in :P20:55
Stskeepsand use the libs i need to20:55
ali1234i think they want to keep it separate20:55
ali1234cearly defined20:55
ali1234i can see the logic in that20:55
Stskeepsbut anyway.. good to see a dent being made in the inability to get sane hw adaptation for devices20:55
ali1234you don't want any more crappy firmware inside your nice chroot20:55
Aardali1234: actually, the setup with a small system bringing stuff up, and then running the main system in chroot is not that bad. given you only have two year old technology :)20:56
ali1234Stskeeps: it';s better than raspberry pi with gpu marshallling all hardware access :/20:57
ali1234although in the end i guess these socs probably do that anyway20:57
ali1234Stskeeps: there's only one ubuntu root filesystem for all devices... if they put system into the image they'd have to ake one for each device... and they are 500mb20:58
ali1234the android stuff is like 40mb20:58
Stskeepsyeah, ok20:58
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ali1234i don't think it makes a huge amount of difference in the end, it's achieving the same thing20:58
Stskeepswhat this really does is reduce android down to a nice BSP build system20:59
Stskeepswhich is where it got it's popularity really20:59
ali1234i'm building for galaxysmtd right now20:59
ali1234if i can do it anyone can20:59
ali1234i don't even need to worry about building ubuntu image with pbuilder and debootstrap21:00
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ali1234i jst grab the zip after phablet is done building21:00
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ali1234what i would like to see though, is how to rebuild with a X11 based Qt5 and then deploy to N900 or even x8621:01
Stskeepsno such thing as a x11 based qt521:01
Stskeepsx11's just a qpa module21:01
Stskeepsyou build towards qt5 and can use same binaries on x11, wayland, etc21:01
ali1234ok but i would have to build a different .deb21:02
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ali1234or at least a .deb with the right QPA in it21:02
Stskeepsi can do qmlscene -platform wayland foo.qml21:02
ali1234only if it was built the right way21:02
Stskeepsit's just a .so that qt loads and uses it as platform abstraction21:02
Stskeepssame binary i can qmlscene -platform xcb, or -platform linuxfb with21:03
ali1234i doubt they have built in x11 support to the qt5 build in phablet21:03
ali1234or ubuntu-touch rather21:03
Stskeepsit's shippable without including in an image21:03
Stskeepsi have qt5-platform-xcb package21:03
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Stskeepsand qt5-platform-wayland etc21:03
ali1234you're totally missing the point21:04
Stskeepsi think we're definately talking past eachother :P21:04
ali1234in order to make it work, i'd need to build it in a .deb and then install it into ubuntu system21:04
ali1234this isn't about qt5 per se, but about how the ubuntu part of the image is built21:04
ali1234ie how the root filesystem is made, where it debootstraps from21:05
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ali1234even if this is easy for qt5, it probably won't be easy to remove the ofono-android wrapper and replace those with something else21:06
ali1234same for pulseaudio21:06
ali1234and if i wanna to x86 then i definitely have to rebuild a lot of packages that currently don't have x86 builds at all21:07
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ali1234i did try to chroot into ubuntu-touch root file system with qemu21:13
ali1234and qt stuff segfaulted when i tried to send it to xephyr :121:13
ali1234it did try to open display though, so who know?21:13
ali1234i probably did it wrong :)21:14
ali1234i think it just needs egl21:16
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rsequeirhave a question on MWC in Barcelona..21:19
rsequeirhow is it possible to have a business meeting con il team Jolla...21:20
ali1234they have their own irc channel21:21
rsequeirmeening ?21:21
rsequeirhow can you speak with them ?21:21
ali1234well, you could ask on #jolla21:21
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rsequeirtwitter ?21:21
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ali1234wait... web chat user :)21:22
lpotterrsequeir: #jolla or try talking to cybette or Stskeeps would be a good start21:23
lpotteror iekku21:23
virtualdrsequeir: try doubleclicking #jolla21:23
iekkuoh, we have #jolla also, haven't even notice :P21:23
lpottererr #jollamobile21:23
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virtualdum yea21:24
rsequeirthanks ... you saved my life, was going mad trying to open this #jolla tab :)21:24
rsequeirthanks !21:24
* lpotter goes to get more espresso21:24
* virtuald eats allt the candy21:25
iekkui should be sleeping21:25
iekkuand haven't even packed for mwc trip21:25
lpottermy kids usually start packing a week before anything21:26
virtualdthey want you to leave that bad huh21:26
iekkucan i loan them before next business trip? :P21:26
iekkuok, of to bed now, need to be ready to leave home in ~10h21:28
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rsequeirnormal to receive response "Cannot send to channel: #jolla"21:37
ali1234rsequeir: you might need to be registered to speak on some channels21:38
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lpotterrsequeir: try #jollamobile21:41
rsequeirway to register ?21:44
mikhasiekku, please make nice pictures from MWC21:48
mikhasand keep us updated on twitter or such21:48
iekkumikhas, if i have time to shoot (didn't took my better camera with me), trying to give some updates21:49
iekkui think me and cybette will be really busy21:49
mikhasotherwise, what would be the point? ;-)21:49
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ali1234Stskeeps: have you seen gentoo-bionic?22:09
ali1234how does that fit in? i think it's compiling the whole distro against bionic...22:10
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CosmoHillnight night23:57

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