Wednesday, 2013-01-23

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CosmoHillnight night00:31
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lbtnight all00:37
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rcgmorning all07:36
rcgjust checking in quickly ;)07:36
rcggreetings from cádiz :)07:36
kulvercg: morning. I updated configs-nexus7 so that it should now automatically set up usb0 with (thanks to alterego)07:37
kulve(I didn't test a new build though..)07:37
kulvealso could be nice eventually07:37
rcgkulve, great :D07:37
rcgi still want to write a blog post about my findings with respect to 3g07:38
rcgmaybe i can do so soon07:38
rcgfor me it also seems like that the latest image is much more stable07:39
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rcgbtw. i experience an issue: when suspending via the power button it drops me into the tty1 with the kernel output07:39
rcgsuspending and resuming then works normally07:39
kulveI've seen that occasionally as well. I don't really understand what's happening07:40
rcgbut i cannot see the lock screen after pushing the power button07:40
kulveI think that can happen on the boot too something07:40
rcgwhat i noticed it that when i press vol. down plus power button (when i want to enter the bootloader) this does not happen07:40
rcgit seems to only happen when i press the power button alone07:41
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rcgand btw. just in case i didn't tell you already: i have a pa-testing repository at b.m.o where you can find the nemo-compatibility stuff as well as a testing build of emumaster07:42
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niqthi rc rcg08:49
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RaYmAnStskeeps: around? (or anyone else having a basic or better understanding of the polish language ;))09:21
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StskeepsRaYmAn: sort-of09:21
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yuntaRaYmAn: I also speak a bit of polish.09:36
RaYmAnYour Partner in online security ~= Twój Partner w bezpieczeństwa online - that's google translate at work, but given I don't speak polish I have no idea if it means something entirely different :P09:37
RaYmAngoogle translate isn't always great at putting together actual sentences as opposed to just translating words directly =P09:38
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yuntaRaYmAn: that would sound better with  bezpieczeństwie09:41
yuntabut it doesn't look like a good translation anyway09:41
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kulvehmm. wrong channel ->#nemomobile09:59
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alteregoStskeeps: Managed to get grande-home somewhat working on Nexus 7 last night :)10:01
alteregoIf I get time I want to port it to lipstick.10:01
alteregokulve: out of curiosity, do camera, and light sensor work. I can't see any applicable devices.10:03
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kulveactually I haven't tried10:03
alteregoWell, there's no v4l device :)10:06
alteregoModule seems built in though10:06
Stskeepspossibly openmax backed?10:06
alteregoYeah maybe.10:06
kulveI think the camera is only accessible through OMX but the gst's camerabin might support it10:06
alteregoSo it might work even without a v4l device?10:06
alteregoWhat about GPS?10:07
alteregoDo we know how that is connected?10:07
alteregoIf it helps I've reinstalled Android on it, so I can root it and maybe poke around?10:08
kulvebut no luck getting it alive yet10:08
alteregoI guess NFC is a no go, as always :)10:08
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kulveI don't a slightest idea about nfc..10:09
alteregoI guess other than those, most hardware is working then. Sensors need that plugin working.10:09
alteregoMight poke around with that if I get some time tomorrow night10:09
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kulveabout the gps. Maybe somebody should dump the ttyHS1 (or whatever it was) traffic on android to see what moves there..10:11
alteregoGood plan.10:12
alteregoI'll see if I can do that.10:12
alteregoI'd be very interested in GPS working.10:12
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kulvealterego: That gpsconfig.xml tells some info but not enough10:17
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lbtyunta: can you rebase the packaging changes and we'll do 0.1710:21
lbtalso tidy up the temporary dirnames please10:22
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phaeronlbt: please upgrade createrepo for mer:tools :)10:23
lbtdo you know of a later debian one?10:23
yuntalbt:  if I go for /intercourse_hardlinks <- is that english broken enough for the reader to figure out what was there before ?10:24
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phaeronlbt: don't do it on debian ?10:27
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lbtphaeron: *nod*10:28
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lbtI plan to move mer:tools to cobs post-FOSDEM10:28
lbtI'll run in an SDK at that point10:28
lbtuntil then...10:28
lbtI can try installing an SDK and see if it "just works" - just for you ;)10:29
phaeronlbt: nah I have a workaround in place, just making sure I covey whatever requests I have10:29
phaeronI can open a bug if you desire10:30
lbtyes, good idea10:30
MerbotMer bug 665 in .Release-tools "Mer:Tools repodata XML is deformed which sometimes breaks mic" [Normal,New]10:33
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lbthmm - is this going to break mic0.14 on mer img now ?10:34
phaeronlbt: I am not sure why it happens so I can't predict why it happens :)10:36
phaeronerr if it will happen10:36
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Jake9xxmardy: ping12:09
Jake9xxmardy: I'm doing something on top of nemo-qml-accounts and I need to write values from .service template to the accounts db (some middlewre requires that) so is there a way to look the default values that are given in .service template?12:10
Jake9xxmardy: on qml side, I know how to do it from c++ of course but that's another story12:11
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chriadamwait, I don't know how to do it on the C++ side.  if you tell me that, then I can update the QML adapters and make it work ;-)12:14
chriadammy preference would be to have settings exposed from the Accounts::Service and Accounts::Provider classes, tbh, since they can both have settings templates now12:15
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alterego.service files are just Ini files no?12:23
alteregoThey should be readeable with QSettings12:23
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Jake9xxalterego: well if the ag_ stuff already has the functionality, why not expose it to qml ?12:29
Jake9xxalterego: I mean , the qml interfaces a a way to load all the key names, but not the type nor value12:29
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samposI'm a bit stuck with mer-gerrit work flow. How to make changes since the code is in tar.bz2 ?13:43
Stskeepswhat package as a start?13:44
* Stskeeps points to w00t13:44
w00tsampos: what changes are you interested in?13:47
samposi have a fix mer#66413:47
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samposbut don't get how that gerrit works :)13:48
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sampos"Now do your changes to the repository as if you were working with a git repository, git add/rm/commit"13:51
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samposhow? when the code is in tarball.13:51
w00tsampos: for mobility, push it upstream (to qt project), and let me know, and I'll pull it in to mer once it gets in up there13:52
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samposah, ok.13:54
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kulvewell, this was a wrong channel after all. I guess those are quite nemo specific15:27
kulveOTOH something similar for Mer would be good15:27
kulvemaybe not15:27
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phakodo I need to reapply for an account on
* phako just wants to do a local package build actually15:40
sledgesmy account was transferred, I though everyone else's too15:41
sledgesunless you created COBS recently15:41
Stskeepsphako: same account as on bugs.merproject.org15:41
Stskeepsand sledges just admitted he has same password on both15:42
* sledges should stop using same passwords15:42
phakohm, no.15:42
sledges(and phako just admitted the contrary ;))15:42
Stskeepsyou choose a username on, not the email15:42
phakoah crap15:42
phakohow often did I fall into this?!15:42
phakoah :)15:43
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alteregokulve: I think something like that would be a good idea, but I guess it's hard because different devices have different capabilities. Maybe a general purpose hardware adaptation status page would be good.15:44
phakoStskeeps: api url is ?15:46
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phakothe wiki still has references15:46
sledgesalterego, well, a person comes in, asks what's working in Nemo on N9. and this matrix decides whether they will install it or not :)15:46
kulvealterego: those different capabilities could be added there. Maybe sectioned somehow for phones, tables, embedded hw15:46
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alteregoIt would be good to have a single page that has a list of all the adaptations as well.15:47
Stskeepsphako: right15:47
sledgesI run Nemo on pandaboard. it's stripped down currently, so all bits would say "N" (soon wifi will say "Y")15:47
Stskeepsphako: we havent officially moved nemo yet as we are fixing some issues in the obs15:47
sledgesbut true, other embedded hw have such things as Ethernet15:47
phakoStskeeps: well, I'll see. just trying something.15:48
alteregoThere's also this page, which should probably be updated :)15:48
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phakoah, my bad15:49
alteregoJust added the Nexus stuff15:49
alteregosledges: would you like to add a link to the pandaboard? :)15:49
sledgesalterego, sure, don't see you nexus stuff there though15:50
alteregorefresh? :)15:50
sledgesah in the Adaptation, not the matrix15:51
sledgesok ;)15:51
alteregokulve, sledges: Maybe a better approach would be to have a template matrix, and have that on each adaptation page.15:52
alteregoI'll edit the nexus page and stick one in.15:52
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sledgesalterego, what's better: a curious user, who wants to see what nemo can run on and what state that is - all in one screen (one click operation), whereas you (a nemo developer) click a bit more around and have your adaptation page uncluttered15:58
sledgesa curious user clicking around adaptations page to know what works or what doesnt, meanwhile you cluttering up your adaptation page with matrices :)15:58
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sledgeschances are, in the latter case a curious user just gives up clicking in mid-way :)15:59
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alteregoI think having that adaptations index page as a reference for all adaptations, then a brief hardware status entry at the top of every adaptation page. I don't think it's too much clutter, as it shouldn't be that big.16:01
alteregoBut we'll see once I've finished the Nexus one :)16:01
sledgesok, I just stick to a thought, that Nemo would have less traction, if we wouldn't have a unified status screen16:03
sledgeshaving potential landing developers in mind16:03
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sledgeslbt, Stskeeps, could we install RichTextEditor into Mer wiki? would increase table editing efficiency by at least 300% :)16:10
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alteregokulve, sledges:
alteregoThat's basically what I'm thinking :)16:14
kulveyou probably should remove nexus 10 from there as it's not tegra based, so it's a completely different thing..16:15
alteregoThen I've put a direct link to the status in the adaptations index.16:15
alteregokulve: Ah, okay. I didn't know that, will do.16:16
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* sledges just had a new user on #nemomobile not finding installation article/images for N9, only Status article. Very much doubt that person would manage to easily navigate to adaptations' articles. Myself found it only half year after discovering Mer16:21
alteregoI think there's a difference between not finding and not looking.16:22
sledgesbut I liked your concise columns16:22
alteregoA simple google returns installation instructions for N9 pretty easily ..16:22
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alteregosledges: well that'd be just for Mer adaptation status, we'd need to have a separate "Nemo" page under that for the Nemo adaptation instructions and status.16:22
alteregoAt least with this structure it doesn't matter what device people are researching you just point them to wiki/Adaptations and they can find it pretty easily ..16:23
alteregoI'm gonna put the list in alphabetical order though ;)16:24
sledgesoh the headache when I find KDE:PlasmaActive:HA bits under COBS, yes16:24
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sledgesso now I see that you are talking about generic HA16:24
sledgesbut what does it define? something used by all UXs ?16:25
* sledges finds it hard where to draw a line16:25
alteregoWell, yes and no.16:25
alteregoI'm thinking about that matrix in terms of useable kernel devices.16:26
alteregoIf you can use the capability, with mer core, then it's a yes.16:26
alteregoDoesn't mean it'll work with Nemo middleware, or Plasma Active middleware, etc.16:26
sledgesI though about my matrix as the answer to todays question on #nemomobile: "is there any place where I can find what features are working and what are not working for N950/N9?"16:27
alteregoSo depending on the distribution used on top of mer, you'd perhaps have a similar matrix, but one that commented on the middleware capabilities, and whether they are working.16:27
sledgesok, generic HA = status at kernel level16:28
alteregosledges: well, kernel and mer core middleware, so ofono, pulseaudio, etc.16:29
sledgesthat devnodes are created, and [optional] rudimentary daemons (like gpsd) pick them up16:29
alteregoMaybe even as far as Qt as that's in mer core.16:29
alteregoYes, exactly.16:29
alteregoWe should probably add something like accelerated graphics as well, and accelerated media codecs.16:30
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sledgesnow, different UXs use their own respective MW, which, in theory, should just work, if underlying interfaces are sane ;)16:30
sledgesbut for some reason, MW itself needs device-dependent tailoring (I wish it wasn't like that)16:31
alteregosledges: sure, but take for instance the nexus, the sensors work on the kernel level, but there middleware doesn't have the appropriate plugin working to interface with it.16:31
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alteregoSo orientation changing doesn't work, magnetometer, etc.16:31
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sledgesisn't it the same MW that -works- on e.g. N9 ?16:31
sledgesI though MW should be device independent :}16:32
sledgesplease enlighten :)16:32
alteregoYes, same middleware, but because the Nexus has a different kernel interface for accessing those sensors, the middleware in Nemo is broken on that platform.16:32
alteregoOnce the plugin is written, it'll work :)16:33
sledgesso we write device-dep plugins for MW, instead of in lower level, why?16:33
sledges(lower level, in this case, = mer-core)16:33
alteregosledges: to save time if the drivers are already written in the kernel, why write another one just to expose a different interface?16:34
sledgesso it all means that middleware was written having particular interfacing with kernel in mind16:34
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sledgesI see: so that's how this friction between layers is ironed out16:34
alteregoThat and it's better for the middleware to be more adaptable, because the changes are we'll get another device, which has the same kind of interface.16:34
sledgesoh dear oh dear, "fragmentation" springs to mind, can't avoid it anywere :))16:35
alteregoFor all I know, this "Industrial I/O" interface is standard to how Android does it's sensor stuff in the Kernel, would be good for us to support it in Nemo middleware.16:35
* sledges by saying "fragmentation" above disjoined it from android this time, sending me into a shock16:36
sledgesapparently, android is the culprit still ;P16:36
* sledges calms down16:36
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sledgesthis android just keeps putting sticks into our wheels :)16:37
sledgeslibhybris as its biggest manifestation thus far16:37
alteregoThe Nexus 7 is an Android device, so the upstream kernel drivers that support the hardware were developed with that platform in mind. Makes sense for us to support the interfaces used there for our purposes :)16:37
alteregoWell, it's not sticks, at least the drivers are open ;)16:37
sledgesyup, and android kernel with mer (/me mutes himself)16:37
alteregoOtherwise we wouldn't have any sensors at all :D16:37
sledges:)) or use libhybris :)16:37
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sledgeswell, fun times! that's where we are..16:38
alteregoThis level is outside of libhybris ;)16:38
sledgeserm true, it's in kernel..16:38
alteregoThis stuff is still a requirement.16:38
sledgessomeone trolled in Tizen's talk @ ELCE last year: "Will Tizen Linux kernel allow proprietary binary blobs?" the project head from Samsung/Intel answered "I see no reason why not"16:39
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cxl000stskeeps when do you think qt5 final, mesa 9, wayland 1 will hit mer next?19:41
Stskeepsit's building after merge this exact minute19:41
cxl000So we will see thus on the next cobs update of next?19:44
cxl000thanks looking forward to it.19:51
Stskeepsi really wonder when llvmpipe will work on arm19:52
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Stskeepslbt: btw, schedule a prerelease for tomorrow20:15
Stskeepswe're a bit late but tomorrow should be a good time.. and cobs import afterwards20:16
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Stskeepsevening shmerl20:24
shmerlStskeeps: Evening. I CCed you some questions (sorry that list is so long :).20:25
Stskeepsyeah, got them, thanks :)20:25
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shmerlOne of those was actually mostly Mer related - why is Mer using old binutils (6.x) rather than the newest version?20:54
Stskeeps6.x? don't you mean coreutils?20:55
Stskeepsand the answer is very likely GPLv320:55
shmerlAh, sorry - coretuils.20:55
shmerlBinutils was some other question there.20:55
shmerlIt sounds like a problem.20:56
Stskeepsmany device vendors are still not happy about gplv3 - rule is that if something goes on device, it shouldn't be gplv320:57
shmerlMay be it's possible to make an optional package, that vendors won't use, but users would be able to install, which will pull newer coreutils replacing the old one?20:57
shmerlThis shouldn't cause any problems with vendors20:58
shmerlUnless they aren't backward compatible.20:58
Stskeepswell, people are always welcome to use whatever they want, but in practice device makers would go for busybox20:59
shmerlYeah, the first thing I'd do is to replace busybox with coreutils.20:59
w00tStskeeps: is busybox packaged, actually?20:59
Stskeepsw00t: somewhere..20:59
shmerlAre there many such examples with things being old because of GPLv3 avoidance?21:00
Bostikshmerl: I like the idea but personally (from painful experience) would want to explicitly deny that package from being installed in autobuilders; that way all the packaging at least would ensure functionality with "stock" coreutils21:00
Stskeepsshmerl: there's a few but not many21:00
Stskeepsit's getting less critical as systemd takes over many init functions21:01
shmerlBut that's going only on what vendors ship right? Community repos can include GPLv3?21:02
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lbtStskeeps: around ?22:06
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atc3030ok. I have searched high and low. Is there any source code available for the Sailfish OS?23:24
wmaronenot yety23:25
atc3030ok. thank you23:25
atc3030any ideas as to when?23:26
wmaronenot at this time23:26
atc3030ok. thank you23:26
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wmaronewe'll know more, I imagine, around the time Jolla decides to release a product.23:27
shmerlatc3030: Mer source is available though, and it will be a major part of Sailfish.23:28
atc3030i was looking at porting it to the sgs323:28
shmerlMer is good enough for starting the porting efforts, since Sailfish (or Nemo) basically build on top.23:29
lbtalso #jollamobile is a good place to hang out23:30
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wmaronestupid wifi23:36
wmaroneyeah what they said :)23:36
atc3030I will look into the Mer platform when I get back from my Dr. Appointment. Thank you for the help guys:)23:41
CosmoHillnight night23:45
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