Sunday, 2012-12-02

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situMorning all06:49
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dm8tbrgood moaning06:52
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Stskeepsmorn07:13
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dm8tbrit's the season again: http://www.foxtrot.com/2010/12/12192010/08:57
Stskeepsindeed08:58
rcgmorning08:59
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rcgjfyi, i started messing with mer on nexus709:01
rcgjust saying in order to avoid duplicate work ;)09:01
Stskeepskulve was playing with n7, i think09:02
Stskeepsgot rather far, too09:02
rcgi see09:02
rcgah great :)09:02
kulveI'm hoping to get that in public during the next week.. I need to sort out few things first..09:03
rcgkulve, cool :)09:03
rcgwhat things do you need to sort out?09:04
rcgkulve, did you upload anything to obs yet?09:04
Bostikmorning09:04
Bostiknice way to finish off a weekend visiting remote locations - illness09:05
rcgmorning Bostik09:05
Bostikhiya, r09:05
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situBostik: Morning09:18
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Bostikhiya, r09:24
BostikI see you got to where I've been stuck with qtwebkit too09:24
Bostikwtf, where did that old line come from09:24
CosmoHillMorning09:24
situI couldn't even find the file which contained that class.09:27
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BostikI've said it before, and I'll say it again: webkit is a dark and full of (t)errors09:31
SuperpelicanBostik:Always read about people complaining about Gecko and that WebKit was the new, slim, scalable rendering engine09:39
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Stskeepsi think there's a parameter of bloat in everything that becomes popular09:39
Stskeeps:P09:39
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dm8tbrit's like those life-vests on airplanes. "In case of popularity, pull hard on the straps..."09:42
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jonwilI think the problem is is that so many web sites use all kinds of crap in their HTML and hence rendering engines need to add support for it09:56
jonwili.e. its impossible to make a lean lightweight rendering engine that doesn't break half the web09:56
BostikSuperpelican: your memory probably is correct, and to the point, literal - "[...] WebKit *WAS* [...] lightweight [...]"09:59
Bostiknowadays it has the complexity of an operating system, if I'm any judge10:00
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Bostikjonwil: I expect that some future CSS spec will have provisions to use the GLES2 system for visual effects; AFAIK currently that's limited to webgl canvases only but once those become staple for all engines, I don't really see why the capabilities wouldn't be further intermixed10:24
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BostikI _think_ the current webkit can already end up using such paths if cairo is built against *GL (some transformations use cairo primitives, that I know)10:30
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jonwilOn the other hand, if all this extra crap means less websites need to use Flash, Silverlight and Java to do what they want to do, that's a good thing :)10:37
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Sfiet_Konstantinwell that's why there is aneed of other cross platform solution10:52
Sfiet_Konstantintake Qt5 :)10:52
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jonwildoes QT still suck on windows (trying to compile it e.g.)11:05
jonwilOn my Gentoo box its easy, I can just do "emerge QT" and come back in 3 hours :P11:05
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Bostikhaving just been left no choice but to build a pretty big bowl of code on windows, I can say that *anything* where dependencies do not come via package management sucks by definition11:09
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jonwilI wish the CoApp project would move forward, that project sounds great11:56
jonwilBeing able to install popular open-source programs and libraries native for windows easily is a great idea11:56
jonwilEspecially with its great visual studio integration11:56
jonwili.e. being able to install e.g. zlib and then open Visual C++ and just add #include <zlib.h> and know the environment has been updated to pick up zlib automatically :)11:57
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Stskeepsafternoon15:13
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vgradeHi Stskeeps15:19
Stskeepsheya vgrade, how is it going?15:19
vgradenot bad, just been sent a cubieboard15:20
Stskeepscool15:20
Stskeepswhat's SoC was that?15:20
vgradeA1015:20
Stskeepsah15:20
vgradegot a bit stuck on maliit but have some things to try. I think its the systemd, dbus interaction15:22
Stskeepspossibly15:23
vgrademaliit server seems to think its already running when I try to start it15:23
Stskeepsi'm still hacking on the wayland on libhybris still.. so close but it's giving me grief15:23
vgradeI tried reading pq's words on how to create a new backend but got lost very early on15:25
Stskeeps:nod:15:25
vgradearm chromebook looks nice. and hackable.15:30
vgradewith a maui desktop15:31
Stskeeps:nod:15:31
dm8tbrhrw has been very active hacking his to work well with ubuntu15:32
vgradedm8tbr: we can build on that15:33
* vgrade sends a letter to santa15:33
Stskeepssatan might be more worthwhile, i'm very sure he's active in the embedded world15:36
Stskeeps:P15:36
dm8tbrvgrade: http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2012/12/01/chromebook-hackers-unite/15:37
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vgradedm8tbr: thanks,15:40
dm8tbrnp15:40
dm8tbrjust don't play randomly with your alsamixer...15:40
dm8tbrthat tends to fry speakers ;)15:40
vgradedm8tbr: from experiance?15:44
dm8tbryes, hrw fried one of his speakers15:50
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poldowhy is Intel using a PowerVX gpu in its Medfield SoC instead of Intel HD Graphics (which has foss drivers)?16:18
dm8tbrpoldo: we wouldn't know, but maybe their IGP cores are not good enough for SoC type applications16:19
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jonwilMy guess is that Intel GPU isn't good enough for use in such low-power environments16:26
dm8tbrthat's what I implicitly said, isn't it? ;)16:27
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poldoit seems they are working on it :O16:32
poldohttp://www.anandtech.com/show/6203/details-on-intels-valleyview-soc-emerge-22nm-atom-with-ivy-bridge-graphics16:32
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dm8tbrno surprise, that they are trying to get there. SGX cores don't have the best reputation in terms of drivers16:39
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Stskeepsevening fk_lx18:06
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SuperpelicanStskeeps:Which mobile ARM graphics are best supported on Linux? PowerVR SGX vs Mali vs Adreno18:23
Stskeepsadreno's not really18:23
Stskeepssgx and mali18:23
Stskeepsif you mean non-android18:24
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SuperpelicanStskeeps:I thought PowerVR was a complete hell18:25
SuperpelicanStskeeps:Yes, I meant non-Android (of course :P)18:25
Stskeepsyou're used to this kind of stuff on embedded18:26
Stskeepsit's more OK to have closed source EGL/GLESv2 libs18:26
Stskeepspowervr isn't bad18:26
SuperpelicanWell at least that's what I read on Phoronix18:27
SuperpelicanBut some people say Phoronix isn't that reliable18:27
Stskeepsphoronix isn't exactly a reliable..18:27
Stskeepsyeah, what you said18:27
Stskeeps:P18:27
SuperpelicanStskeeps:Well could you suggest me a nice Phoronix alternative :P18:27
SuperpelicanTo get my daily Linux news18:27
SuperpelicanBut I did read that there are already DRM kernel drivers for both Exynos (Mali) and PowerVR18:28
SuperpelicanBut what's the point of those if you don't get real hardware acceleration?18:28
Stskeepslwn.net's good18:28
SuperpelicanStskeeps:I would also like to buy a Linux ARM board some day18:29
SuperpelicanWhich is the best choice when looking at graphics support also18:30
SuperpelicanI would prefer to run openSUSE on it18:30
SuperpelicanI read Beagleboard and Pandaboard are currently supported18:30
SuperpelicanBut those have a PowerVR GPU18:30
Jadedmali's support is not too good, but it's very very active18:30
Jadedthere's a lot of sunxi boards around with mali40018:31
SuperpelicanJaded: I know18:31
SuperpelicanThat's why I'm curious which ARM Graphics are better supported18:31
Jadedyeah18:31
SuperpelicanMali or PowerVR18:31
Jadedpowervr is wayyyy more supported18:31
Jadedmali is very bare18:31
Jadedi have both here and mali is just.. horrible18:31
Jadedmight get better over the months, hopefully18:32
SuperpelicanJaded:But if you have no hardware acceleration, will you also have no openGL support?18:32
Jadedit will be software rendered, it will work but very slowly18:32
SuperpelicanJaded:So you're GPU is pretty useless actually18:33
SuperpelicanJaded:No Video decoding support, no openGL18:33
Jadedpowervr has decent 3d acceleration on linux18:33
Jadedyeah, for mali18:33
Jadedthe issue with sunxi is the video decoding uses a separate unit called CedarX, and the libs are all closed source18:33
Jadedso even with working mali400 drivers, there won't be any video decoding18:33
SuperpelicanJaded:Phoronix said PowerVR closed bin blob with open source DRM was a complete mess on Ubuntu 12..0418:34
Jadedyeah18:34
Jadedto be honest, they are all a mess18:34
Jadedlol18:34
Superpelican:(18:34
Jadedthings arent in a very good state anywhere18:34
SuperpelicanThat makes me very sad18:34
Jadedme too18:34
SuperpelicanIt's really a shame18:34
Jadedi'm happy to see work being put into mali400 drivers though, but they are far, far from having a decent driver18:34
SuperpelicanBut at least Nvidia(!, the company called worst company ever dealed with by Linus himself) was contributing to the Tegra 2 driver18:35
Stskeepstegra support for x11's pretty good18:35
Stskeepson arm18:35
SuperpelicanJaded:But which driver do you think will eventually be the best? Mali or PowerVR18:35
Jadedi'm not sure18:35
Jadedat this point i'd probably say powervr18:35
Jadedbut things might change18:36
SuperpelicanJaded:Because there's of course a difference between the community needing more time to develop and the community not having enough documentation18:36
Jadedtrue18:36
SuperpelicanJaded:If for example Mali needs some more manhours and PowerVR is currently better but lacks enough docs18:36
SuperpelicanJaded:Than eventually Mali will catch up and beat PowerVR18:36
Jadedi think that's pretty much how it is actually18:36
Jadedfrom what i remember reading18:37
Jadedand if i'm not mistaken, XBMC got cedarx video decoding working (somewhat)18:37
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SuperpelicanWhat's CedarX, you mean PowerVR GPUs in Intel Cedar Trail18:38
Jadedcedarx is the video decoding unit that usually comes on sunxi boards with mali40018:39
* ljp yawns18:39
Jadedhttp://linux-sunxi.org/CedarX this18:40
* Superpelican now understands18:40
Stskeepsgood morning ljp18:42
* Stskeeps passes ljp the coffee pot18:42
ljpmake it double espresso18:42
ljpplease18:42
Stskeepshehe18:42
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ljpI had forgotten that bearer was integrated into qt 418:45
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Stskeeps:nod: it was used for symbian and meego i think18:45
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ljpsee what happens when your working on secret projects? you forget things.18:46
SuperpelicanJaded:But isn't ARM giving away more documentation then Imagination?18:47
Stskeepsimagine how traumatised some people were to come back and deal with harmattan level code again ;)18:47
JadedSuperpelican, they do18:48
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SuperpelicanSo Mali drivers will eventually be better then PowerVR, just like I sort of said?18:50
Stskeepsthe tendancy is probably going more towards that nobody's caring about normal linux, though - it's already quite bad18:50
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ljptoday is my youngest 3rd birthday18:57
ljpweeee! more cake!18:57
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ljpd20:17
ljphmm. wrong window20:17
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CosmoHillnight night23:00
CosmoHillwish me luck23:00
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