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| situ | Morning all | 06:49 |
|---|---|---|
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| dm8tbr | good moaning | 06:52 |
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| Stskeeps | morn | 07:13 |
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| dm8tbr | it's the season again: http://www.foxtrot.com/2010/12/12192010/ | 08:57 |
| Stskeeps | indeed | 08:58 |
| rcg | morning | 08:59 |
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| rcg | jfyi, i started messing with mer on nexus7 | 09:01 |
| rcg | just saying in order to avoid duplicate work ;) | 09:01 |
| Stskeeps | kulve was playing with n7, i think | 09:02 |
| Stskeeps | got rather far, too | 09:02 |
| rcg | i see | 09:02 |
| rcg | ah great :) | 09:02 |
| kulve | I'm hoping to get that in public during the next week.. I need to sort out few things first.. | 09:03 |
| rcg | kulve, cool :) | 09:03 |
| rcg | what things do you need to sort out? | 09:04 |
| rcg | kulve, did you upload anything to obs yet? | 09:04 |
| Bostik | morning | 09:04 |
| Bostik | nice way to finish off a weekend visiting remote locations - illness | 09:05 |
| rcg | morning Bostik | 09:05 |
| Bostik | hiya, r | 09:05 |
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| situ | Bostik: Morning | 09:18 |
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| Bostik | hiya, r | 09:24 |
| Bostik | I see you got to where I've been stuck with qtwebkit too | 09:24 |
| Bostik | wtf, where did that old line come from | 09:24 |
| CosmoHill | Morning | 09:24 |
| situ | I couldn't even find the file which contained that class. | 09:27 |
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| Bostik | I've said it before, and I'll say it again: webkit is a dark and full of (t)errors | 09:31 |
| Superpelican | Bostik:Always read about people complaining about Gecko and that WebKit was the new, slim, scalable rendering engine | 09:39 |
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| Stskeeps | i think there's a parameter of bloat in everything that becomes popular | 09:39 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:39 |
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| dm8tbr | it's like those life-vests on airplanes. "In case of popularity, pull hard on the straps..." | 09:42 |
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| jonwil | I think the problem is is that so many web sites use all kinds of crap in their HTML and hence rendering engines need to add support for it | 09:56 |
| jonwil | i.e. its impossible to make a lean lightweight rendering engine that doesn't break half the web | 09:56 |
| Bostik | Superpelican: your memory probably is correct, and to the point, literal - "[...] WebKit *WAS* [...] lightweight [...]" | 09:59 |
| Bostik | nowadays it has the complexity of an operating system, if I'm any judge | 10:00 |
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| Bostik | jonwil: I expect that some future CSS spec will have provisions to use the GLES2 system for visual effects; AFAIK currently that's limited to webgl canvases only but once those become staple for all engines, I don't really see why the capabilities wouldn't be further intermixed | 10:24 |
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| Bostik | I _think_ the current webkit can already end up using such paths if cairo is built against *GL (some transformations use cairo primitives, that I know) | 10:30 |
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| jonwil | On the other hand, if all this extra crap means less websites need to use Flash, Silverlight and Java to do what they want to do, that's a good thing :) | 10:37 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | well that's why there is aneed of other cross platform solution | 10:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | take Qt5 :) | 10:52 |
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| jonwil | does QT still suck on windows (trying to compile it e.g.) | 11:05 |
| jonwil | On my Gentoo box its easy, I can just do "emerge QT" and come back in 3 hours :P | 11:05 |
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| Bostik | having just been left no choice but to build a pretty big bowl of code on windows, I can say that *anything* where dependencies do not come via package management sucks by definition | 11:09 |
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| jonwil | I wish the CoApp project would move forward, that project sounds great | 11:56 |
| jonwil | Being able to install popular open-source programs and libraries native for windows easily is a great idea | 11:56 |
| jonwil | Especially with its great visual studio integration | 11:56 |
| jonwil | i.e. being able to install e.g. zlib and then open Visual C++ and just add #include <zlib.h> and know the environment has been updated to pick up zlib automatically :) | 11:57 |
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| Stskeeps | afternoon | 15:13 |
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| vgrade | Hi Stskeeps | 15:19 |
| Stskeeps | heya vgrade, how is it going? | 15:19 |
| vgrade | not bad, just been sent a cubieboard | 15:20 |
| Stskeeps | cool | 15:20 |
| Stskeeps | what's SoC was that? | 15:20 |
| vgrade | A10 | 15:20 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 15:20 |
| vgrade | got a bit stuck on maliit but have some things to try. I think its the systemd, dbus interaction | 15:22 |
| Stskeeps | possibly | 15:23 |
| vgrade | maliit server seems to think its already running when I try to start it | 15:23 |
| Stskeeps | i'm still hacking on the wayland on libhybris still.. so close but it's giving me grief | 15:23 |
| vgrade | I tried reading pq's words on how to create a new backend but got lost very early on | 15:25 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 15:25 |
| vgrade | arm chromebook looks nice. and hackable. | 15:30 |
| vgrade | with a maui desktop | 15:31 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 15:31 |
| dm8tbr | hrw has been very active hacking his to work well with ubuntu | 15:32 |
| vgrade | dm8tbr: we can build on that | 15:33 |
| * vgrade sends a letter to santa | 15:33 | |
| Stskeeps | satan might be more worthwhile, i'm very sure he's active in the embedded world | 15:36 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:36 |
| dm8tbr | vgrade: http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2012/12/01/chromebook-hackers-unite/ | 15:37 |
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| vgrade | dm8tbr: thanks, | 15:40 |
| dm8tbr | np | 15:40 |
| dm8tbr | just don't play randomly with your alsamixer... | 15:40 |
| dm8tbr | that tends to fry speakers ;) | 15:40 |
| vgrade | dm8tbr: from experiance? | 15:44 |
| dm8tbr | yes, hrw fried one of his speakers | 15:50 |
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| poldo | why is Intel using a PowerVX gpu in its Medfield SoC instead of Intel HD Graphics (which has foss drivers)? | 16:18 |
| dm8tbr | poldo: we wouldn't know, but maybe their IGP cores are not good enough for SoC type applications | 16:19 |
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| jonwil | My guess is that Intel GPU isn't good enough for use in such low-power environments | 16:26 |
| dm8tbr | that's what I implicitly said, isn't it? ;) | 16:27 |
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| poldo | it seems they are working on it :O | 16:32 |
| poldo | http://www.anandtech.com/show/6203/details-on-intels-valleyview-soc-emerge-22nm-atom-with-ivy-bridge-graphics | 16:32 |
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| dm8tbr | no surprise, that they are trying to get there. SGX cores don't have the best reputation in terms of drivers | 16:39 |
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| Stskeeps | evening fk_lx | 18:06 |
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| Superpelican | Stskeeps:Which mobile ARM graphics are best supported on Linux? PowerVR SGX vs Mali vs Adreno | 18:23 |
| Stskeeps | adreno's not really | 18:23 |
| Stskeeps | sgx and mali | 18:23 |
| Stskeeps | if you mean non-android | 18:24 |
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| Superpelican | Stskeeps:I thought PowerVR was a complete hell | 18:25 |
| Superpelican | Stskeeps:Yes, I meant non-Android (of course :P) | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | you're used to this kind of stuff on embedded | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | it's more OK to have closed source EGL/GLESv2 libs | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | powervr isn't bad | 18:26 |
| Superpelican | Well at least that's what I read on Phoronix | 18:27 |
| Superpelican | But some people say Phoronix isn't that reliable | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | phoronix isn't exactly a reliable.. | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, what you said | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:27 |
| Superpelican | Stskeeps:Well could you suggest me a nice Phoronix alternative :P | 18:27 |
| Superpelican | To get my daily Linux news | 18:27 |
| Superpelican | But I did read that there are already DRM kernel drivers for both Exynos (Mali) and PowerVR | 18:28 |
| Superpelican | But what's the point of those if you don't get real hardware acceleration? | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | lwn.net's good | 18:28 |
| Superpelican | Stskeeps:I would also like to buy a Linux ARM board some day | 18:29 |
| Superpelican | Which is the best choice when looking at graphics support also | 18:30 |
| Superpelican | I would prefer to run openSUSE on it | 18:30 |
| Superpelican | I read Beagleboard and Pandaboard are currently supported | 18:30 |
| Superpelican | But those have a PowerVR GPU | 18:30 |
| Jaded | mali's support is not too good, but it's very very active | 18:30 |
| Jaded | there's a lot of sunxi boards around with mali400 | 18:31 |
| Superpelican | Jaded: I know | 18:31 |
| Superpelican | That's why I'm curious which ARM Graphics are better supported | 18:31 |
| Jaded | yeah | 18:31 |
| Superpelican | Mali or PowerVR | 18:31 |
| Jaded | powervr is wayyyy more supported | 18:31 |
| Jaded | mali is very bare | 18:31 |
| Jaded | i have both here and mali is just.. horrible | 18:31 |
| Jaded | might get better over the months, hopefully | 18:32 |
| Superpelican | Jaded:But if you have no hardware acceleration, will you also have no openGL support? | 18:32 |
| Jaded | it will be software rendered, it will work but very slowly | 18:32 |
| Superpelican | Jaded:So you're GPU is pretty useless actually | 18:33 |
| Superpelican | Jaded:No Video decoding support, no openGL | 18:33 |
| Jaded | powervr has decent 3d acceleration on linux | 18:33 |
| Jaded | yeah, for mali | 18:33 |
| Jaded | the issue with sunxi is the video decoding uses a separate unit called CedarX, and the libs are all closed source | 18:33 |
| Jaded | so even with working mali400 drivers, there won't be any video decoding | 18:33 |
| Superpelican | Jaded:Phoronix said PowerVR closed bin blob with open source DRM was a complete mess on Ubuntu 12..04 | 18:34 |
| Jaded | yeah | 18:34 |
| Jaded | to be honest, they are all a mess | 18:34 |
| Jaded | lol | 18:34 |
| Superpelican | :( | 18:34 |
| Jaded | things arent in a very good state anywhere | 18:34 |
| Superpelican | That makes me very sad | 18:34 |
| Jaded | me too | 18:34 |
| Superpelican | It's really a shame | 18:34 |
| Jaded | i'm happy to see work being put into mali400 drivers though, but they are far, far from having a decent driver | 18:34 |
| Superpelican | But at least Nvidia(!, the company called worst company ever dealed with by Linus himself) was contributing to the Tegra 2 driver | 18:35 |
| Stskeeps | tegra support for x11's pretty good | 18:35 |
| Stskeeps | on arm | 18:35 |
| Superpelican | Jaded:But which driver do you think will eventually be the best? Mali or PowerVR | 18:35 |
| Jaded | i'm not sure | 18:35 |
| Jaded | at this point i'd probably say powervr | 18:35 |
| Jaded | but things might change | 18:36 |
| Superpelican | Jaded:Because there's of course a difference between the community needing more time to develop and the community not having enough documentation | 18:36 |
| Jaded | true | 18:36 |
| Superpelican | Jaded:If for example Mali needs some more manhours and PowerVR is currently better but lacks enough docs | 18:36 |
| Superpelican | Jaded:Than eventually Mali will catch up and beat PowerVR | 18:36 |
| Jaded | i think that's pretty much how it is actually | 18:36 |
| Jaded | from what i remember reading | 18:37 |
| Jaded | and if i'm not mistaken, XBMC got cedarx video decoding working (somewhat) | 18:37 |
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| Superpelican | What's CedarX, you mean PowerVR GPUs in Intel Cedar Trail | 18:38 |
| Jaded | cedarx is the video decoding unit that usually comes on sunxi boards with mali400 | 18:39 |
| * ljp yawns | 18:39 | |
| Jaded | http://linux-sunxi.org/CedarX this | 18:40 |
| * Superpelican now understands | 18:40 | |
| Stskeeps | good morning ljp | 18:42 |
| * Stskeeps passes ljp the coffee pot | 18:42 | |
| ljp | make it double espresso | 18:42 |
| ljp | please | 18:42 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 18:42 |
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| ljp | I had forgotten that bearer was integrated into qt 4 | 18:45 |
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| Stskeeps | :nod: it was used for symbian and meego i think | 18:45 |
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| ljp | see what happens when your working on secret projects? you forget things. | 18:46 |
| Superpelican | Jaded:But isn't ARM giving away more documentation then Imagination? | 18:47 |
| Stskeeps | imagine how traumatised some people were to come back and deal with harmattan level code again ;) | 18:47 |
| Jaded | Superpelican, they do | 18:48 |
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| Superpelican | So Mali drivers will eventually be better then PowerVR, just like I sort of said? | 18:50 |
| Stskeeps | the tendancy is probably going more towards that nobody's caring about normal linux, though - it's already quite bad | 18:50 |
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| ljp | today is my youngest 3rd birthday | 18:57 |
| ljp | weeee! more cake! | 18:57 |
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| ljp | d | 20:17 |
| ljp | hmm. wrong window | 20:17 |
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| CosmoHill | night night | 23:00 |
| CosmoHill | wish me luck | 23:00 |
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