Monday, 2012-05-28

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diorahmanStskeeps: do we have other options other than flasher?01:52
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Stskeepsmorn04:41
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iekkumorning04:47
iekkupuuh, computer get up. waited yesterday 2h and it didn't04:48
* Stskeeps has a todo to send out advisory board agenda04:49
Stskeepsand i presume you have one for triage04:49
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iekkuStskeeps, 2!04:50
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iekkuStskeeps, i tried to do it yesterday, but my machine wanted to too some checkings and was doing it after 2 hours waiting. at that point i stopped waiting and went to sleep04:51
Stskeepsyeah04:51
iekkuhuh, could sleep more. all muscles are hurting.04:53
iekkueven the ones i didn't know i'm having :)04:54
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Stskeepssounds like you had a entertaining outdoors sleep? :P04:54
iekkuyeah, we had :)04:54
iekkuthe walking trip wasn't so bad, only 14km04:55
iekkubut i had 14kg backbag04:55
iekkufunny, i just realized that i was 14 when i did the same kind of trip previously04:56
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iekkuor turned to 14 in that year04:56
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E-PMorning \o05:28
Stskeepsmorn E-P :)05:29
Stskeepshttp://www.mail-archive.com/mer-general@lists.merproject.org/msg00520.html - and yes, i typoed iekku's nick :P05:30
E-Pdouble sage :)05:31
iekkuoh, that would be so cool! can we have also triple Stskeeps ?05:32
Stskeepsi wish05:32
Stskeeps:P05:32
iekkuwould help a lot05:32
E-Pinded05:32
E-P+e05:32
* Sage notices that Stskeeps's monday has started ;)05:36
iekku:D05:37
iekkui need more coffee05:37
Sage"I don't dringk coffee" (tm)05:39
Stskeepsnow, imagine how sage would be like on coffee..05:39
Stskeeps:P05:40
iekkuhahahha05:41
iekkustarted to laugh05:41
Sage;)05:41
StskeepsSage: kicked libnl and pacrunner05:42
SageStskeeps: libnl needs to be accepted with those 3 others, iw, crda, wpa_supplicant05:45
Stskeepsok05:46
Stskeepsdid you have that localdep project?05:46
Bostikmorning05:46
Stskeepsmorn Bostik :)05:46
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SageStskeeps: yes it was in tspre only qt-mobility and qtwebkit rebuilt on i58605:54
Stskeepsok05:55
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BostikStskeeps: huge url warning, but do take a look:  https://build.pub.meego.com/package/binary?arch=i586&filename=qt5-qtwidgets-5~5.0.0~alpha1-14.1.i586.rpm&package=qtbase&project=home%3Abostik%3AQt5a1&repository=Mer_Core_i58606:48
Bostikdependency on libx11 nowhere to be seen after a very simple patch06:49
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Stskeepsok, good06:58
* Stskeeps has to head downtown for driving lessons, bbl06:59
iekkuhave fun!07:03
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iekkuStskeeps, remember: you get more points from children than old women.07:03
rcg1iekku: :)07:10
rcg1Stskeeps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amezAFdOpX0 go for it :)07:10
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alteregoiekku: I thought old people got you more points, though maybe I'm wrong ..07:35
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alteregoI guess kids are more of a challange because they move quicker, so you're probably right ..07:36
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iekkualterego, that's the point07:41
alteregoAh07:41
iekkuwhen i was at driving school the teacher asked what to do if you see old lady going over the road07:41
iekku"let her go and wait for the children, you get more points"07:42
iekkuteacher asked the rest of the student NOT to listen my answers07:42
alteregolol07:42
lbtmorning all07:44
lbtiekku: I may not make triage today - doing things with concrete...07:44
iekkulbt, thanks for information.07:45
iekkuhope there's other people around so we can have the triage07:45
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E-Plbt: concrete is nice to play with, I spend many hours on the last weekend to make base for a chimney08:12
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dcthangany planning to get html5 app running on Mer?08:21
Bostikeventually08:22
Bostikonce we get the whole qt5 in, there will be qtwebkit08:22
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BostikI just fixed one hurdle this morning, and eliminated a rogue libx11 dependency from the generated packages so we should be closer to the goal08:23
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wangjfStskeeps: ping08:25
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wangjfStskeeps: hi , I am a member of sonach's team, and encounter one problem related to fonts,08:25
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wangjfI put sunglobe.ttf under /usr/share/fonts, but the Chinese characters still be not be displayed properly,08:26
wangjfthe Chinese characters are on qtmediahub,08:26
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wangjfDo I need any extra configuration to make it work?08:29
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E-Pwangjf: Stskeeps is away at the moment, he will be back later08:29
wangjfOK, thanks, I will wait08:30
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wangjfStskeeps: Question added: The Chinese fonts works well in qtwebkit, but won't work in qtmediahub, they use different fonts?08:58
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jbos_I'm currently looking into ks files, why are y using mer-kickstarter to generate ks files from two other config files?10:22
jbos_why not just wrting the ks file by hand?10:22
Stskeepsjbos_: .ks'es don't inherit10:32
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jbos_ok10:33
jbos_I see, so I can have serveral vertical ks's generated and only need to point out the dif?10:33
Stskeepscorrect10:34
jbos_great :)10:34
Stskeepsso you can have mer doing their job and providing kickstarter yamls and provide changes that inherit down10:34
Stskeepsor hw adaptations10:34
jbos_sound great10:34
Stskeepsthat's the theory at least..10:34
jbos_:D10:34
jbos_ok so in case I want to generate a nemo ks file from yaml10:35
jbos_I use what i get from gitorious.org/meego-developer-edition-for-n900 ?10:35
Stskeepsyes, but ask sage10:35
Stskeepsi think i'll have to declare myself AWOL today, this tooth pain is a bit heavy10:36
jbos_uch, good luck on that10:36
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Stskeepsiekku: i'll be absent for triage, but 349 needs to be a release blocker, 352 high, 353 needs to be normal as it may be a blocker to sharing x86 adaptation with tizen10:45
Stskeepssimply can't think straight at the moment10:45
iekkuok, i will add those. thanks10:45
iekkuStskeeps, let's see how the triage goes, you and lbt can't come10:46
Stskeepsand for nemo 179 will be sorted if we sync with tizen ivi as it drops grubby and mkinitrd10:46
Stskeepsbbl10:47
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Sagejbos_: yes10:50
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jbos_if i want to build nemo ks files, i simply use the imageconfig from above + your kickstarter?10:53
jbos_or is mer-kickstarter the same to yours?10:53
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iekkumer bug triage starting soon10:59
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jbos_sage, seems to work as I would expect it to :)11:13
Sagejbos_: yes, mer-kickstarter should have all my changes also11:14
Sagehaven't checked that though but it should :)11:14
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jbos_mhm is there a way to avoid n950 to go sleep an loose network (usb)12:50
Sagejbos_: ..12:50
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Sagegoes to sleep and looses usb?12:50
jbos_yep12:50
Sageo_012:51
jbos_also wireless is bit jumpy12:51
jbos_ok now it works, sleep + usb12:52
jbos_mh12:52
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jbos_oh my fault... usb wasn't fully in the slot... ty12:57
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rcg1how do i assign a bug to myself?14:31
rcg1do i use my e-mail address or my username?14:31
rcg1nvm14:33
rcg1email worked14:33
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* Stskeeps stretches16:49
Stskeeps.. okay, a bit more sanen ow16:49
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Stskeepsevening vgrade17:05
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vgradeStskeeps, evening17:08
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Stskeepshad a good work day? i practically lost mine due to some tooth problems :P17:09
vgradeStskeeps, good thanks, some more Jenkins config17:10
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Stskeepsvgrade: brewing on a blog post, http://pastie.org/398385217:14
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vgradeStskeeps, an issue for the connected car as well.17:19
CosmoHillwoo17:19
Stskeepsvgrade: yup17:19
Stskeepsvgrade: how many years do you expect to keep a car?17:20
vgrademy history 10 years, 6 years and current 5 years so far17:21
Stskeepsok17:21
CosmoHillI've had mine 15 years so ar17:21
vgradejlr are planning the concept of a refresh which dealers fit, rather like the aftermarket head units but from the OEM17:22
timophStskeeps: what day your were flying to hel?17:22
Stskeepstimoph: 14th17:22
timophhmmh17:22
* timoph ponders about doing a road trip to hel then17:23
Stskeepsnot going to in vicinity of texrat timewise, if that's what you're wondering17:23
Stskeepsas i land like 1217:23
timophah17:23
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timophbtw, anyone have scratchbox and mer platform sdk in the same machine?17:35
Stskeepssb1 ?17:36
timophyep17:36
timophwondering if they play nice together17:36
Stskeepsnot really17:36
Stskeepsmoment17:36
Stskeepshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build/Application_Building#Co-existing_with_Scratchbox17:37
timophI'll just setup another vm for sb117:38
timopheasier17:38
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smokuStskeeps: is anyone working on Application SDK, or is it out of Mer scope?18:46
Stskeepssmoku: well, for qt side of things we were thinking to sort of follow what was coming out of qtonpi18:47
timophthere was talk about doing it but can't remember what blocks it currently. something related to passing the rootfs to qtcreator18:47
Stskeepsand yeah, that we can't reliably indicate sysroots18:48
Stskeepsthe three-step rocket was platform sdk, then sb2 sdk (for cross ability) and then app sdk somehow18:48
Stskeepsit hasn't been high on the list though as we've had worse problems :)18:48
smokuIC18:49
timophalthough you can run qtcreator inside the platform sdk :)18:49
Stskeepsyeah, that does work18:49
smokuI'm looking for an env to work on Cordia apps18:49
smokulooks like I need to assemble one myself :)18:50
smokuany pointers?18:50
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Stskeepsdepends on what you want to do, i presume it's gtk-vala'ish?18:51
timophI'd start by experimenting how can be done with the platform sdk18:51
Stskeepsyeah, what timoph said18:51
Stskeepsas gtk apps aren't traditionally cross compiled, platform sdk + sb2 is probably the easiest18:52
timophyep18:52
Stskeepssmoku: our platform sdk is just a .ks, so extend it at will18:52
Stskeepsand bother lbt when it doesn't work for you as a vendor, as it's supposed to :P\18:52
smokuyes. I'm currently experimenting with separate instance of platform SDK18:53
smokubut I have some weird issues starting user instance of dbus :/18:53
Stskeepsis dbus-x11 installed?18:54
* lbt wanders by between cement mixer loads...18:55
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lbthttp://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Tools18:55
Stskeepsshh, back to building the secret Mer lair18:56
Stskeeps;)18:56
smokuStskeeps: nope. dbus-x11 is not installed18:56
lbt*g*18:57
Stskeepssmoku: that might cause some problems18:57
lbtI need to do some tests on the new sb2  rules too18:57
lbtbbiab18:57
smokuStskeeps: should running uxlaunch setup the session etc?18:57
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Stskeepsyeah, but running uxlaunch in platform sdk is bad news18:58
Stskeepsconsider launching a vm instead18:58
Stskeepsit's x86 after all18:59
Stskeepsand we have llvmpipe18:59
smokuStskeeps: why it may be a problem?  if there are any packages installed that pulled it in as a dependency, it shouldn't be needed, is is?18:59
Stskeepssmoku: well, as a start, it starts -xorg-18:59
Stskeeps:P18:59
smokui have a separate Xephyr running in the host machine18:59
Stskeepsstill, it starts xorg to my knowledge19:00
Stskeepsthough i suppose it doesn't strictly have to19:00
smokuand I would like to stick to the chroot approach instead of separate machine19:00
smokui appreciate the shared $HOME19:00
Stskeepsokay, just be aware that it may chew your $HOME for lunch -- and in my belief, the sb1 SDK for maemo had so many hacks to get that scenario to work that it wasn't worth it19:01
Stskeepshence the VM work they did with full emulation19:01
Stskeepsa deployment-to-vm cycle might work better, IMHO, but it's up to yo19:01
Stskeepsu19:01
Stskeepsor even p9fs or how it was19:02
smokuwell... if a separate machine is the only way to go, i would rather install it on a bare metal, than vm... same level of PITA ;-)19:02
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Stskeepsalso a possibility19:03
Stskeepsfrom mer pov we're working with remote device usually, even in testrunner19:03
ccssnetSleepy_Coder: i see you all over freenode19:04
* ccssnet waves19:04
Sleepy_Coder:D19:04
Sleepy_CoderI tend to blather on in every channel :319:04
ccssneti just found mer project last night :)19:05
Sleepy_CoderA friend gave me a sticker so I had to get involved :p19:05
smokuStskeeps: that's deployment.  the platform SDK is great for. :-)19:05
ccssnetahh19:05
smokuStskeeps: but how do you do development?19:05
ccssneti have to ask though. why qt?19:06
Stskeepsccssnet: we don't force you to use qt19:06
smokuStskeeps: with standard modify-build-test loop19:06
ccssneto?19:06
Stskeepsccssnet: mer's just a puzzle piece, mangle it like you want - smoku here uses mer with GTK+19:06
ccssneto interesting19:07
ccssnetso any possibility to see it with fltk or some smaller lighter toolkit?19:07
Stskeepsccssnet: we just deliver a useful mobile core, it's up to you how you want to use it19:07
Stskeepsat risk of keeping both pieces when it breaks19:07
Stskeepssure, could even put EFL on top19:07
ccssnetah nice. ill dig into it soon, got alot going on19:07
Stskeepswe just use qt as a good way to validate and optimize :)19:08
Stskeepsand some even advocate qt outside mer core19:08
Stskeepssmoku: hmm, probably the worst person to ask about this, but i would probably center around sb2 on top of a image similar to my target19:08
ccssnetwell i cant say my pc is without qt... but ideally it would be O:-)19:08
Stskeepssure, up to you19:09
Stskeepsplasma active uses mer with qt, but without connman for example19:09
Stskeepsinstead using networkmanager19:09
ccssnethmm19:09
Stskeepsfor this exact reason we don't provide a common app story19:09
ccssnetok. anyone working on mer with an open pandora hand held?19:09
ccssneti got one in my hands now.19:09
smokuuxlaunch does not like me too19:10
smoku[10.793961] [3931] Failed to write oom_core_dj score file: /proc/3952/oom_score_adj19:10
smokuKilled19:10
Stskeepssmoku: thought as much19:10
Sleepy_Coderthat looks sexy :o19:10
Stskeepsccssnet: should be easy to get working..19:10
Stskeepsccssnet: got a 2.6.32 or above kernel?19:10
ccssnetcool ill try it soon enough. next week or so19:10
Sleepy_Coderccssnet: looks like a Nintendo DS almost :D19:11
ccssnetya19:11
Sleepy_Coderhadn't seen that before19:11
ccssnetdont buy a used one, buy a new one19:11
ccssnetused ones are first gen and have 256mb ram. new ones have 512mb ram19:11
ccssneti bought a used one haha19:11
* Sleepy_Coder likes the dual sd card slot19:11
ccssneti dislike it19:12
Sleepy_Coderwhy so?19:12
ccssneti would rather it had a single microsd slot, with a pcie ssd19:12
ccssnetSD cards are not really fast. nor do they last19:12
Stskeepsccssnet: in mer, hw adaptation is seperate from the project, so you'd have to do your own hw adaptation project for it19:12
Sleepy_Coderhmm19:12
Sleepy_Coderthat would be nice19:12
Stskeepsstart by getting mer platform SDK and make one of our armv7l images19:13
ccssnetStskeeps: ya i gathered that. sorry for off topic19:13
Stskeepsccssnet: ah, it's sortof on topic, it's just that we keep it 'seperate' so we don't have fights over it ;)19:13
Stskeepsand everybody is equal when it comes to core19:13
Stskeepsinstall rootfs on a sd, add kernel and modules, try to boot, rinse and repeat..19:13
ccssnetya19:14
Stskeepsccssnet: johnx had meego arm booting on openpandora19:14
Stskeepsso it should be possible for mer too19:15
ccssnetSleepy_Coder: my nephew thought it was a nintendo DS and looked at me funny. (im 28) why you playing games? he asked me19:15
ccssnethaha19:15
ccssnetok19:16
ccssnetmaemo, meego, now mer19:16
ccssnethehe19:16
Stskeepsyeah.. well19:17
ccssnetnext it will just me M19:17
Stskeepsmaemo, mer, meego, now mer again..19:17
Stskeeps:P19:17
ccssnets/me/be/19:17
ccssnetah19:17
tadzikccssnet | next it will just me M19:17
tadzikheh. In Perl we have Moose, Mouse, Moo and finally Mo19:17
ccssnetugh19:18
tadzikand probably M too already19:18
tadzikpeople and their ideas19:18
Sleepy_Coderccssnet: The only game console kids will respect any adult playing is the SNES ;p  It's just instinct.19:18
ccssnethaha19:19
ccssnetcommon, n64 was ok also19:19
Sleepy_CoderMario Kart 64 was <3  ANd Banjo Kazooie :D19:20
ccssnetya19:20
Stskeepsccssnet: what kind of toolkit would you run on there, out of curiousity?19:20
ccssnetso is mer an entire os on its own?19:21
Stskeepsccssnet: we're a core, couple it with a hardware adaptation, and a ui and you have a potential 'product'19:22
ccssneto toolkit wise, fltk ideally. i like its size. but gtk+ realisticly if i want to recycle prior codded apps19:22
Stskeepsccssnet: ie, we're not really attempting to package the kitchen sink, but create a common base for vendors (this includes hackers!) to re-use19:22
ccssnetya19:22
Stskeepsso we're ~340 source packages that yield a core for mobile devices19:22
ccssnetwell, relivant, i am working on a custom os myself. so idk.19:22
Stskeepsthere's a lot of small companies who can do really big things, but maintaining their own OS core themselves is a hassle19:23
ccssnetbut one of the things my os currently lacks is a touch ui and related drivers/scripting19:23
ccssnetso this mer project cought my attention19:23
Stskeepssecurity updates, image creators, build systems, sdks..19:23
Stskeepsso, well, why not Mer :)19:23
Stskeepsso you can focus on the things that's actually fun to do19:24
ccssnetya well, you cant pitch mer to a programmer :)19:24
Stskeepswe're pitching to vendors intentionally19:24
ccssnetmy resume includes "board support packages", and the word toolchain19:24
ccssnetso yea19:24
ccssnetyea im not a vendor19:25
Stskeepswhich is hardware adaptation projects, UI projects, device programs, or the home hacker at home who doesn't want to reinvent the wheel to hack a device19:25
Stskeeps(vendors)19:25
ccssnetalthough, ive had quite a few interviews lately related to linux / touch devices19:25
Stskeepsso we're a bit different :)19:26
ccssneti hope to hear from one of those tommorow.19:26
ccssnetyea, so mer seems to be similar to linaro in strategy atm19:26
ccssnetbased on this convo ^19:27
Stskeeps.. naah19:27
Stskeepslinaro is an effort to improve arm in linux, simple as that19:27
ccssneteh maybe, but its pitching to corporates19:27
Stskeepssure19:27
Stskeepsi love their work19:27
Stskeepsmer just plays a different game, and we include a lot of their deliverables19:28
ccssnetah19:28
Stskeepslinaro gcc, qemu, vendors re-use hardware adaptations19:28
Stskeepsand we care about intel atom, generic x86, mips, armv6 as well19:28
ccssnetnice19:28
ccssnetid like to see better mips support myself19:29
ccssnetparticularly broadcom anything19:29
Stskeepsi'd really like somebody to validate our mips port properly19:29
Stskeepsit runs in emulator but .. on hw?19:29
Stskeeps:P19:29
ccssnetwell i got a mips router. not so usefull for this i assume19:29
Stskeepsprolly not, this is more of the ui facing kind of stack19:29
ccssnetcurrently has openwrt on it19:30
ccssnetwell a hackish openwrt19:30
ccssnetreused propreitary drivers and code from stock firmware. so its more like frankenwrt19:30
ccssnetfucking broadcom19:31
ccssnetanyway19:31
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Stskeepswe are also more than just code, we're build systems, image creators, QA tools, etc19:31
ccssnethmm. is Mer a company?19:32
ccssnetor just a loose orginization?19:32
Stskeepsnop, want to see the governance?19:32
Stskeepshttp://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Governance19:32
Stskeepswe're set up as a not-for-profit last i saw19:32
Stskeepsor however that was called in the UK19:33
ccssnethmm interesting19:33
Stskeepskinda informal but we do have advisory board meetings every 14 days19:34
Stskeepsi'm the current project architect19:34
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ccssnetnice19:34
ccssnetwhats the mer build system based on?19:34
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Stskeepsdeep down we're RPM packages, but we use Open Build Service as a build farm19:35
ccssneteek19:35
Stskeepsit works19:35
* ccssnet pokes rpm with a stick19:35
Stskeepswe decided to use rpm and people are more than welcome to copy our content and do their own deb stack19:35
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Stskeeps:P19:35
Stskeepsor whatever19:35
ccssnetya. i guess19:36
Stskeepsi think life is too short for packaging discussions :)19:36
ccssnetlife is short yes19:36
* ccssnet glances at his own age 2819:36
Stskeepsheh, 27 here ;)19:36
Stskeepseither way, try out mer platform sdk, make a image for armv7l, see if you like it19:37
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Stskeepsif you don't, well so it goes :)19:38
ccssnetyea ill try it soon enough19:38
smokuStskeeps: got it19:40
smokueval `dbus-launch --sh-syntax`19:41
smokudid the trick19:41
Stskeepsah cool19:41
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ccssnetso i assume mer needs rpm installed?19:46
ccssnetfor the sdk19:46
Stskeepsccssnet: nop, it's a chroot19:46
ccssnetim currently typing from trisquel (debian)19:47
ccssnetok19:47
Stskeepswe intentionally do it like that as we can't keep up with everything all distros do :P19:47
Stskeepsso it's mer itself you use for sdk19:47
ccssnetyea makes sense19:47
ccssnetthats what im doing with my os also. chroot19:47
ccssnetok downloading now19:47
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ccssnetCloning into open-build-service...19:56
ccssnetill check out obs also19:56
ccssnetobs uses flash vids?19:58
ccssnetnoobs of the open source world...19:58
Stskeepserr.. no, but peek around at https://build.pub.meego.com for instance20:02
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Stskeepsfor day-to-day work we mostly do it in sdk thoug20:02
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Stskeepsand you probably just did a massive faux pas in #opensuse-buildservice there :)20:03
Stskeepstrust me on this, you don't want to try to run OBS on anything other than opensuse as bottom20:03
ccssnetyea i just rambled in their channel20:03
ccssnetlol20:03
ccssnethmm well build system is no issue, my workstation is 6 core, 16gb ram, 380gb space for source/whatever chroots20:04
Stskeepsright, time for sleep though20:04
ccssnetok ttyl20:04
Stskeepsbbl20:04
smokudoh... Fedora's Xephyr does not like fremantle's clutter.  and I'm not really eager to port fremantle/meego patches :/20:05
Sc0rpiusI had a problem like that20:08
Sc0rpiusthe Xephyr of the latest Ubuntu didn't work right20:08
Sc0rpiuswhat I did was to extract the Xephyr binary from Ubuntu 10.x and use that20:08
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smokuand Mer's Xephyr is segfaulting ;-)20:22
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smokuxinit -- :2 -depth 1620:27
smokuworks great :D20:27
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