Saturday, 2012-04-28

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vgradewe are talking about systems providing X, Qt, connman in 30=40MB of RAM00:06
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TermanaIanWizard-Cloud, you realise Debian uses eglibc right?00:14
TermanaI don't know whether Debian and Mer use the same version though, so I wouldn't go simply trying to just go and use the Debian repo, but as vgrade said, you can just rebuild it.00:18
IanWizard-CloudSorry, batt died, back.00:20
TermanaAlso AFAIK Debian repos are still only ARMv5 or ARMv4. You are better of doing a rebuild for armv7hf for mer, especially since you were concerned about optimisations.00:20
Termanaoff*00:20
IanWizard-CloudHmm, yeah.00:21
IanWizard-CloudThinking I should just use elibc for everything.00:21
IanWizard-CloudI'm just trying to get a good, toolchain setup, for the hardware, and use that for the various things that I build, independent of Android.00:22
IanWizard-CloudI think that I'm caught up now, thanks :)00:22
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Alison_ChaikenCan someone point out an example of a pseudo-package with _link and/or _aggregate?00:58
Alison_ChaikenI'm on Day 3 of trying to get what I thought would be a simple build to work.00:58
Alison_ChaikenThanks!00:58
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StskeepsAlison_Chaiken: hmm, what problems are you having?05:51
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Alison_ChaikenMy build fails for Fedora x86_64 but works for Ubuntu, Debian.06:12
Alison_ChaikenGuess I'm missing some dependencies on Fedora only.06:12
StskeepsAlison_Chaiken: okay, can you point to it?06:12
Alison_Chaiken(Made some progress since this afternoon.)06:12
Alison_ChaikenStskeeps, I've never tried to qmake . . . make . . . make install on a Fedora host.   I'll probably find a new dependency that way and check spec file.06:13
Alison_ChaikenSo earlier question is now deprecating.06:13
Alison_ChaikenLong-dormant Fedora laptop is updating a huge backlog in preparation . . .06:14
Alison_ChaikenMeanwhile playing with new Allerta inPulse notifications watch.06:14
Stskeeps:nod:06:14
* Stskeeps 'll participate remotely in http://linuxfestnorthwest.org/session/plasma-activevivaldi-tablet-truly-open-os-mobile-devices later today06:15
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BostikAlison_Chaiken: qmake has a "nice" way of dealing with missing includes or modules: it merely croaks a warning and then merrily goes on; to actually error out on a missing dependency needs to be explicitly set in the .pro file(s)06:56
Alison_ChaikenStskeeps, I hope that there will be a recording of the session.06:58
Alison_ChaikenBostik, qmake isn't obviously failing; the package build complains that a file in blahblah/cmake is missing for Fedora build, not for Mer, Debian, etc.06:59
Alison_ChaikenNot exciting stuff, I admit.06:59
StskeepsBostik: qtbase merged to mer btw07:00
Bostik\o/07:00
Stskeepsprolly need to catch up with your alpha1 work07:00
Alison_ChaikenWould like to get back and figure out state of EGL on Mer.   So many things I'd like to do, sigh.   Need more hours.07:00
Bostikoddly enough I suspect alpha1 is a few commits *behind* the sources in :Qt5:Devel07:01
Alison_ChaikenAnd figure out why gpsd runs and sees GPS on Mer but doesn't seem to get any data (USB GPS).07:01
Alison_Chaikenhttp://spatialminds.com/blog/linuxfest-northwest.html07:01
StskeepsAlison_Chaiken: verify on pc perhaps if it gets fix07:01
Bostikthere was something in the spec I needed to comment out that exists in the newer head07:01
Alison_ChaikenInteresting Qt talk at NW Linuxfest.07:01
Alison_ChaikenOh yeah, GPS works great: used with all different devices to record data.07:02
Stskeepsok07:02
StskeepsAlison_Chaiken: perhaps not enough ampere from usb port?07:02
Stskeepsie, need powered usb hub07:02
StskeepsBostik: ok, i will merge :Devel during tomorrow then07:03
Bostikah right07:03
Bostik#%{_datadir}/qt5/mkspecs/devices/07:03
Bostik# NOTE: the above is present in qtbase master, but not in alpha107:03
Alison_ChaikenAlready plugged into powered hub!   (Learned that lesson in MeeGo-Panda days).07:03
Bostikthe device files themselves are in Ə1 but the qmake magic was not there yet :)07:03
StskeepsAlison_Chaiken: worth checking :)07:03
Alison_ChaikenPanda needs something like 3.5 A to boot without any peripherals plugged in.07:03
Alison_ChaikenMos def.     Burned by that one before.07:03
Alison_ChaikenWhen the current was too low, the NAND didn't come up right, so the error messages were peculiar.   Took me a while to figure out.07:04
Alison_ChaikenA device doesn't give an error like "The NAND doesn't have enough current."   Too bad!07:04
BostikStskeeps: I should get the alpha1 together next week, and then catch up with module heads again07:05
Stskeepsok07:05
Alison_ChaikenG'night all.07:06
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: the function printf() can block a program, have you ever encountered this problem ?07:20
_av500_depends on where stdout goes to I guess07:22
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: in fact, I encountered this when I add a statement "printf" in webkit07:22
ZiQiangHuan_av500_: just a simple printf("something\n");07:23
_av500_foo | less would also block07:23
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: there might be some odd occourences with threading.. and sometimes some apps close stdout fd07:23
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: fprintf(stderr, might be better07:23
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Stskeepsremember printf is just writing to a fd in the end07:24
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: yeah, I add fflush(stdout) after printf07:26
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: but sometimes it work, somtimes not work07:27
_av500_find out what webkit does to stdout07:27
Stskeepsalso for apps in x sessionn std actually goes to a file, .xsession-errors07:28
Stskeepsso you might have to wait for i/o07:28
_av500_and i guess webkit has some log() functions too07:30
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E-Pmorning07:37
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vgradeMorning07:51
vgradeStskeeps, Janice told me last night that our dinner appointment is an hour earlier than I though so I will miss the whole LFNW thing now :(07:51
vgradeI'll ping an email to Carl and Aaron07:52
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Stskeepsvgrade: O08:32
StskeepsK08:32
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lbtmorning all08:52
CosmoHillmorning08:52
Stskeepsmorn lbt08:53
Stskeepslbt: saw http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Architecture ?08:55
iekkuhuomenta08:55
lbtStskeeps: you've been busy :)08:56
Stskeepsyeah08:56
Stskeepslbt: turns out AgileBrowser can do batch mode as well, so that could be useful08:57
lbtI wonder how close I was with that outline I did a while back08:58
lbt... and I think it's time we started to think about a "package data store" (trying to avoid the word pkgDB)08:59
Stskeepsi'm still unsure of the worth of it, but feel to convince me otherwise08:59
lbtthings like architectural grouping are coming up in QA09:00
Stskeepsyeah09:00
Stskeepsand i have that in mind too09:01
Stskeepsie, what things do we support as interfaces, as well09:01
lbtthe pkgdb is meant to provide a reliable API09:01
lbtit's possible to master the data in package metadata - and that could well be correct09:02
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lbtbut it then means that, anything wanting to know authoritative data would have to parse that09:02
lbtanyhow... I don't think it's blocking anything yet09:03
lbtaha ... email09:03
lbthmm -  group covers all binary packages a source package produces   .... and yet : run-time architecture, not build-time09:05
lbtyou know grouping is one of the data managment areas that *always* goes wrong09:06
lbtwhen you have your head firmly in architecture space then "group" means architecture group.  When you have it in people-management space it means "packages managed by this team"09:08
lbtwhen you have it in kickstart space it means "packages installed by this label"09:08
lbtwhen you have it in license space ...09:09
lbtso in my mind the word group should almost never be used in isolation09:09
lbt"The goal is to encourage sane Group: settings of vendor components"   .... ouch09:10
* phaeron quietly slips aways09:10
lbtIncidentally that Group: flag in a .spec was originally intended (I think) as a user-interface hint to guide the presentation of packages in an installation tool09:11
lbtphaeron: :P09:11
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Stskeeps:nod:09:19
Stskeepswell, raise it in the thread as that stuff goes into the architectural documentation over time else, so it's best to define the terms09:19
Stskeepsand we'll sort out things as we go, even 'package groups' (horrid name) is something to consider there09:20
lbtyep09:21
Stskeepsjust bringing the issues up to the surface early09:21
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Stskeepsthis work will also help to understand where our focus on QA needs to be, or for that matter, priority of documenting areas09:24
Stskeepsas more can understand -wtf- is going on in Mer ;)09:24
Stskeepsjust be happy i don't pull a bada, http://dkor.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/web_samsung_architecture.png?w=600&h=37009:25
dm8tbrbut but that's so simple and clear!? :-þ09:26
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* lbt gets "Mer Project" paying-in bank book in post09:51
* lbt looks at vgrade09:51
* lbt looks at Hetzner09:51
* lbt looks at vgrade again09:51
jbos_hi lbt,09:52
lbthey jbos_09:52
jbos_my fakeobs behave strange today... I cant connect anymore to it09:52
jbos_obs gets a connection refused09:52
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jbos_already tried a reboot and such09:53
lbtcheck the nohup.out / log09:53
lbtis it set up as a service?09:53
lbtif not it may need running manually09:53
jbos_what i get is http://paste.jeremias-bosch.com/show.php?id=105009:54
jbos_and this on fakeobs http://paste.jeremias-bosch.com/show.php?id=105109:54
jbos_nohup.out , where is this supposed to be?09:56
waapwd09:56
lbtjbos_: it's in the release-tools dir usually10:02
lbtunless you run using systemd10:02
jbos_i see, nay currently it simply started manual as root10:02
jbos_printing to console10:03
jbos_root@fakeobs:/srv/mer/mds/release-tools# python tools/fakeobs.py 800110:04
lbtmmmk ... not the best way to run a service :)10:04
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jbos_ineed10:04
jbos_but its right now only for testing :)10:04
lbtthe 503 isn't a problem btw10:04
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lbt"they all do that, sir"10:04
lbtso now it's restarted is it working?10:05
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jbos_this is strange, its only refusing this one package, the other packages are working10:09
lbtany errors now?10:09
jbos_mhm I disabled i586 for this10:11
jbos_package. now i enabled it and it works10:11
lbtyep - it does tend to be more active when it's turned on ;)10:12
jbos_mhm I have i586 and armv7el targets10:12
jbos_I only want to build arm10:12
jbos_so i disable i586, and it also stops to build arm?10:12
jbos_with a connection refused on fakeobs?? this seems more like a bug :)10:13
lbtOK -that's odd10:13
jbos_yep. let just make a bug entry :) where do you like to have it10:14
lbtthanks - just what I was about to suggest10:14
lbthttps://bugs.merproject.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Mer%20Integration%20Tools%20%28MINT%29  OBS component10:15
lbt(assuming you're using our packages?)10:15
jbos_yep10:16
lbtlots of detail too please10:16
lbtI have to pop out - back l8r10:16
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jbos_k10:16
vgradelbt, are the bank details on wiki10:19
Stskeepsjbos_: sometimes connection refused result is cached10:20
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jbos_mh?10:22
Stskeepsjbos_: ie, that when it has attempted once to do something and failed, the state will stay there10:23
jbos_ah ok, so what to do to clear this cache?10:23
Stskeepsdepends on where you see the error?10:23
jbos_m I guess best to put it in a bug report,10:24
jbos_with all details10:24
Stskeepsok10:24
Stskeepsjust imagine the amount of problems you would have with a obs that's not localhost and you link to10:25
jbos_yup10:25
Stskeepsand now think how much of a nightmare meego.com obs was to make products with.. constant downtimes, etc10:25
jbos_https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32210:32
Stskeepsthanks10:32
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jbos_m so why is a connection_refused_state  cached?10:33
jbos_does this make sense?10:33
Stskeepsok, so, at some point the scheduler will go in and ask the source server to give it the sources10:33
Stskeepsif at that point the remote OBS is down, it of course can't fetch it, and the package build gets marked as failed10:34
Stskeepswhich doesn't get resurrected when the 'remote obs' comes back up again10:34
jbos_yep, but if I say "trigger rebuild"10:34
jbos_i guess it will try again10:34
Stskeepsis the state of package 'failed' or something else?10:35
jbos_it was broken: "connection refused"10:35
Stskeepsok10:35
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jbos_one thing which I find odd, and may show some bad setup on my obs.. the installation of th "build environment" takes about 30 minutes.10:51
jbos_or is this a good time?10:51
Stskeepsthat sounds a bit unusual, maybe bad VM i/o?10:51
jbos_yep I thought the same, so its running in kvm10:52
jbos_worker has about 20gb ram free, i use qcow2 virtual medias with writethrough cache mode10:56
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jbos_they are on a raid 110:57
jbos_physicaly10:57
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jbos_mhm i guess that raw, none cache would be better10:59
Stskeepsi had problems with that too fwiw11:02
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Stskeepssroedal: should it be possible to get wayland 0.85 & qml compositor from qtwayland working with shm buffers these days?11:12
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Stskeepswb pirut11:13
jbos_lets see, just converted image to something that should be faster, no caching, raw, native io, all prealloc11:21
Stskeepsalso, how many GB ram does your frontend/backend have?11:22
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jbos_dedicated are 6 GB, while 2 are shared with others,... but this change makes some huge difference11:23
Stskeepsok11:23
Stskeepsi'm not personally happy with the amount of ram OBS fe/be takes11:23
jbos_yes, so the performance blocker was the disk image setup11:24
jbos_now it took about 3 minutes to install 68/181 package11:24
jbos_before this took 12-15 min11:24
Stskeeps:NOD:11:25
Stskeeps:nod: i mean11:25
jbos_mhm did you ever try to checkout in a spec file?11:25
jbos_my sources 'to be build' are well, ~600 mb, in total11:26
jbos_which makes it quite a big tar to keep updated11:26
Stskeepsassume workers do not have network11:26
Stskeepsit's most secure11:26
jbos_indeed11:28
jbos_ah need to leave now, get some stuff, cya11:29
Stskeepsseeya11:29
* phaeron looks at the stale vcs integration branch ..11:29
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alteregoNo sign of my 3D printer kit .. :(11:43
alteregoHopefully it'll come over the next week.11:43
vgradealterego, which one ?11:44
alteregoprusa mendal with linear bearings11:47
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CosmoHillhi Venemo_N95012:05
CosmoHilland alterego and vgrade12:05
Venemo_N950hey CosmoHill :)12:05
alteregoHey CosmoHill12:05
Venemo_N950what's up?12:05
CosmoHillwatching football and drinking milkshake12:06
Venemo_N950:)12:06
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CosmoHillthere are three matches on that are of interest12:07
CosmoHillReading (my team) vs Birmingham, southamption vs cov and west ham vs hull12:08
CosmoHillSouthampton and West Ham are sorta fighting for 2nd place in the table only west ham don't have a hope12:08
alteregoI want reading, southhampton and west ham to win :)12:10
alteregoWell, the chances of them winning the next four games is somewhat impossible.12:10
CosmoHillreading already have promotion and the championship :)12:11
CosmoHillfor west ham to win they need to score 4 more goals and cov need to score 3 goals12:12
CosmoHillto win automatic promotion that is12:12
CosmoHill"The players just over 45 minutes away from the premier league"12:13
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lilstevievgrade: did you see the new armhf release :D13:53
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vgradelilstevie, i did not see one?14:05
vgradejust a new softfp release14:05
vgradeoh there is a new one14:08
vgradebut not for harmony14:08
RaYmAnharmony/ventana - who cares :P drivers certainly doesn't14:08
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lilstevievgrade: harmony/ventana really aren't that different14:13
RaYmAnthe main difference from nvidia's point of view is actually the kernel14:15
lilstevieand as far as the driver is concerned clock speed does not matter14:19
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* CosmoHill makes half a easter egg disappear 14:28
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sroedalStskeeps: yep, should be possible14:59
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* CosmoHill looks at a Skoda Octavia VRS16:08
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johnxhallo17:28
johnxanyone else @ lfnw?17:28
Stskeepslo johnx17:28
Stskeepssome might be in #active at least, i'll be participating remotely17:29
Stskeepsjust telling about our piece of the puzzle :)17:29
johnxseems like they're having some technical issues right now. are you going to skype in or simiar?17:31
Stskeepsyes17:31
Stskeepsworst case scenario i can write my talk on IRC ;)17:31
Stskeepshow's the amount of participants for the session?17:32
johnxno sitting room left :)17:33
Stskeepswell that's good i presume, murphy's law must really kick into force then :)17:33
johnxpeople standing by the walls17:33
johnxthe kde guy is calling in in a sec17:35
Stskeepsok, skype online, etc17:35
johnxaaron needs to answer his phone ...17:36
johnxwoo! we have video17:37
Stskeepswoo17:37
Stskeepsi think my power supply just decided to die17:37
Stskeepsor not, well, at least the battery icon..17:38
Stskeeps:P17:38
johnxnot the greatest timing but it fits the theme of today17:38
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* Stskeeps does camera check..17:40
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* johnx reports from the ground :)17:40
Stskeepssomeone's playing loud cowboy music in the distance, intruiging..17:59
johnxhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/johnxx/7121906813/in/photostream18:04
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johnxyour audience18:05
Stskeepstime for scene fright?18:05
johnxwow. people still wandering in18:06
johnxthough i think you've talked to bigger audiences ;)18:07
Stskeepsprobably, but you can't underestimate the usefulness of presenting to small but technical audiences18:07
Stskeepswe had a devroom in FOSDEM, almost at capacity for mobile linux topics all day18:07
Stskeepswe had to turn away people from the Tizen talk18:07
Stskeepsdue to fire regulations18:08
Stskeepsgoing to SF on saturday, so happy i'm just conferencing and not doing any talks :)18:08
johnxyou'll be within 800 miles of me. sure you don't want to drive up?18:09
Stskeepsi'll be significantly limited in time, sadly - and i don't have a drivers license yet!18:10
Stskeeps:P18:10
Stskeepsthough that ETA is getting closer now, taking course these days18:10
Stskeepsaaron still talking?18:11
johnxyup. he's on the 'what could it look like" slide18:13
Stskeeps:nod:18:13
johnxalso: how are you taking the drivers ed course? online?18:14
Stskeepssurprisingily there are driver ed teachers here that speak and teach in english18:14
Stskeepspractical test will be with a sworn translator in the back18:15
johnxinteresting. you know my company does online drivers ed, right?18:16
Stskeepsi think you said18:16
Stskeepsi wouldn't mind online driver's ed here too, i would probably get much more out of it.. but the practical lessons are insanely hard here18:16
Stskeepstraffic = bizarre and violent18:16
Stskeepslike driving inside a beehive on fire18:17
johnxif you want a license to drive in California, I can get you started :D18:17
Stskeepshehe18:17
Stskeepsi'll probably need that if i ever move there ;)18:17
johnxafk for a bit18:18
Stskeepsk18:18
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johnxaaron is wrapping up. they'll probably call you soon18:23
Stskeepsk18:24
Stskeepsor someone else, there's a few potential people:)18:24
Stskeepswe'll see18:24
johnxah18:24
Stskeepsready any time anyhow18:24
johnxn/m. aaron talking about hardware18:24
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johnxoooh, and someone has one to demo18:25
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Stskeepsgood evening InformatiQ :)18:28
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johnxstill doing q+a. i don't know if they'll fit anyone else in18:34
Stskeepswe'll see, technical issues are always a bitch in that regard18:35
Stskeepsthe important thing is that people learn about active and vivaldi, some might dive deeper into the machine room and discover mer18:36
johnxmer got mentioned a couple times. if i talk to people where should i point people besides irc?18:37
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Stskeeps#mer and merproject.org, mailing list always open for questions18:37
Stskeepswiki is filled with info18:37
Stskeepsworst case scenario i've found a good pitch for discussing mer in the future, written down :)18:37
johnxwell, questions are a good sign at least18:38
johnxis mer supporting other tablets? some guy was asking18:38
Stskeepsyes18:38
Stskeepsmer is just a core, add a hardware adaptation18:38
johnxthe guy wanted precooked images I think18:39
Stskeepslife's hard :)18:39
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johnxare there any hw adaptations that are far along?18:39
Stskeepspre-existing hardware adaptations exist for exopc and archos g9 and so on18:39
Stskeepsn900, n950.. but they're not part of mer, but external entities18:40
Stskeepsto make more sense of that, come by and have a chat ;)18:40
johnxi'll catch him afterwards and point him at mer18:40
Stskeeps:nod:18:40
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johnxi assume all mer adaptations can run plasma/active?18:41
Stskeepsyou can't always assume that18:41
Stskeepsfor example, raspberry pi18:41
Stskeepsbut many can, yes18:41
johnxgood point18:41
Stskeepswe even have virtual machine adaptations, so you can do llvmpipe+mer in virtualbox18:42
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johnxare both the 8" and 10" g9 tablets supported?18:43
Stskeepsthat i don't know offhand18:43
Stskeepsagain, the external entities thing :) mer doesn't carry hardware adaptations or ui's for a reason :)18:43
Stskeepsso there will be hw adaptation projects i don't know details about, from my pov18:44
johnxfair enough18:44
johnxand we're wrapping up it seems18:48
Stskeeps:nod:18:48
Stskeepsnext time we'll have a full session for mer ;)18:48
* Stskeeps heads home18:53
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