Sunday, 2012-04-01

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tripzerohmm01:41
tripzerovgrade, this thing doesn' charge so well01:41
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wmaroneError <mount>: Failed to unmap partitions for '/dev/loop0'02:05
wmaroneoh, no wonder02:09
wmaronetiny partition is tiny02:09
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wmarone:/03:48
wmaroneError <mount>: Error creating ext4 filesystem on disk /dev/loop0103:48
wmaroney u no play nice, mic03:48
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: can I start matchbox before qtmediahub, and after Xorg ?06:51
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: sure, instead of qtmediahub in /usr/share/xsessions/ , have matchbox there, and move qtmediahub to /etc/xdg/autostart/06:53
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: yeah, can I use a systemd service ?06:55
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: but Xorg is started by uxlaunch in its source code06:55
Stskeepsnah, it's a bit difference format06:55
Stskeepsso06:55
Stskeepsuxlaunch starts Xorg, and then inside that starts the 'session' in /usr/share/xsessions/ (usually window manager), then looks into /etc/xdg/autostart/ for .desktop files to start06:56
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: ok06:56
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: in your opinion, is there some good academic research points in mer?07:08
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: i think so, but it isn't only mer, linux at a whole too07:09
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: much of the things might qualify over in software engineering instead though07:09
Stskeepsas it's very much about practical implementation of theory07:10
Stskeepshuman-computer interaction studies on how developers build linux devices, or research into test methods, for example07:10
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: because I have to do some academic research except lots of practical work07:10
Stskeepsthe 'first' Mer (long ago), was made to make it easier to for example do prototypes for helping patients in their homes07:12
Stskeepsas part of a research programme at my university07:12
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: yeah,07:12
Stskeepsi think there's quite a lot of interesting possibilities for research, in fact, i consider most of my Mer work experimental and research, except i don't publish papers about it07:13
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps:  yes, thank you for your suggestion07:14
Stskeepsthere's for sure software architecture topics07:14
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: maybe software architecture is a hard topic for publishing papers07:15
Stskeepsyeah07:15
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps:  It seems many people insist that academic research must have math with it.07:16
Stskeepswell, that is after all what computer science is based upon.. but for some areas like human-computer interaction, ubiquitious computing, etc, the requirement isn't that strong07:18
Stskeepsthe hot topics are putting computer science together with other disciplines, like medicine, or design, etc07:18
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: yes07:19
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: anyway ,thank you for your helpful suggestions07:23
Stskeepsno problem, i was working at university in a research group for 5 years when i was a student, so i still think in similar ways :)07:25
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: yeah07:27
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* Sage ponders if it possible to cancel decline responde from boss07:59
Sageis the missing packages for next already fixed btw?08:01
Stskeepswe'll prolly do another prerelease to fix it uop08:01
Sagek08:02
Sagehow does /usr/lib/rpm/find-lang.sh work?08:05
Sageis that part of rpmlint?08:05
Stskeepsno, rpm config i would think08:06
Stskeepsor rpm itself08:06
Sagehmmp... I'm confused as it has never failed like this before: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=i586&package=zypper&project=home%3Asage%3Abranches%3AMer%3Afake%3ACore%3Aarmv7l&repository=Mer_Core-next_i58608:08
Sageah08:08
Sagemy bad08:08
Sageanyone want to try out newer zypper on Mer? :)08:11
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lbtmorning all08:34
Stskeepsmorn lbt08:34
lbtI don't think OBS developers develop new features... I think they invent new failure modes...08:35
lbtit's like doing cryptic crosswords08:35
lbtobscure clues08:35
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Stskeepslbt: began working on http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Architecture08:37
Stskeepslbt: this will obviously be more expanded08:37
lbt*nod*08:38
lbtI suggest the links should go to gitweb08:39
Stskeepsi think diagrams will08:39
lbtOK08:39
Stskeepshow are we if we waanted to start doing roadmapping utilizing bugzilla?08:45
lbtis it the right tool ?08:45
Stskeepswell, we're revolving around tasks and bugs => content for releases08:46
lbtroadmapping is more fluid08:46
lbtor rather08:46
lbtroadmapping that's not fluid goes wrong08:46
Stskeepsmm08:47
lbtI liked the moveable tree concept in BAYOT08:48
lbtI used to do a lot of work on requirements management08:49
Stskeepsspeaking of which, think BAYOT would be good for Mer? (i don't have opinions either way), just discussing08:50
lbtThere were elements of it that I liked08:50
lbtBAYOT as we used it was a team tool towards smallish goals08:51
lbtand I've thought from time-to-time that our bugs can't be grouped easily08:52
lbtit could help with medium tasks that need work on a few areas08:53
lbteg the "OBS=>sb2" has some breadth08:53
lbtso does "New Versioning system"08:53
lbtright now we attack them piecemeal08:53
lbtOTOH my brain is screaming at me to fix a  "Errorcode: unknown; Message: HTTP session not yet started" error in OBS ... :)08:55
Stskeepsthat one is really irritating :P08:56
Stskeepshttps://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11708:57
Stskeepsdidn't we accomplish this somehow?08:57
lbtmmm08:57
lbthttp://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK has some but sadly: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Category:Mic08:58
lbthas more that really needs editing08:58
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lbteglibc is a good one09:18
dm8tbrsame network, yeah09:18
Stskeepslbt: i think a lot of stuff can really be lumped into 'catch up to all the work that didn't go into meego 1.3', in terms of upgrades, etc09:19
Stskeepsie, remove the cobwebs09:19
lbteglibc is a "sytem" goal (if we push the SW stack to system) to meet the feature of linaro compatibility which addresses the "how" of "support ARM"...09:20
Stskeeps:nod:09:20
lbtlooking at these (few) goals should help us prioritise too09:20
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lbtI agree - and "staying current" is a feature level goal too09:21
lbtstategy goal of "supporting bleeding edge technology" or some such wording09:21
lbtdrives our need to be current09:22
lbtthis conflicts with IVI btw... oops09:22
lbtand I've seen this kind of debate eat a weeks time (at an 'offsite') for well over 50 people09:23
lbtand it still felt like we hadn't covered it all09:24
Stskeeps:nod;09:24
lbtso "good enough" is a crucial point09:24
Stskeeps"goal to be secure" as well, fwiw09:24
lbtthat's probably quite a low goal - feature level09:25
lbtalthough marketing matters09:25
Stskeepswell, my overarching goal is to make the damn best core for building products with :)09:27
lbt*cough*09:28
lbt'core' ?09:28
lbtMDS, SB2, OBS, BOSS ....09:28
lbt'solution' ?09:28
Stskeepswell, ok, solution is better09:28
lbtI kinda love strategy statements ... condensing the dreams of a whole group of people into a meaningful goal where every word means something is fun09:29
lbtOTOH it can be a bit of a waste of time :)09:30
lbtand "solution" is a crap word09:30
vgrademorning09:31
lbthey vgrade09:31
vgradeanother loop sdk issue last night, wmarone09:31
lbtvgrade: this is good - soon someone will start to itch....09:31
vgradei've too much on to look09:32
lbtvgrade: I can't reproduce09:32
vgradeyea,09:33
lbthttp://plasmasturm.org/log/6debug/09:33
vgradeweird thats the second time i've seen that in two days, w00t posted it on g+ I think09:34
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lbtthat's where I got the link :)09:42
lbtand it made me think of this problem09:42
lbtanyhow..... back to OBS09:42
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vgradeStskeeps, yes reference kernel and also arm has historic kernel driver source09:43
vgradeStskeeps, I was looking at it from the other side :)09:43
vgradeupdating the userspace09:43
Stskeepsvgrade: yeah, i was just thinking that the libs from amlogic must be the ones matching their kernel09:43
Stskeepsso that should be transplantable09:44
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vgradeStskeeps, sure, on the list. Its good to talk09:45
Stskeepslbt: now that phaeron is back, i think next week for me (given i'm away tuesday-thursday) will be MDS2 so we can get that rolling09:46
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lbtStskeeps: OK - now that will need to be run on server so can you start with packaging and add code to that10:00
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Stskeepslbt: right10:02
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Stskeepsand a bunch of test cases with curl and testrunner..10:04
lbtactually - just a few test cases is fine - better would be less test cases and notes on how to add more10:05
Stskeeps:nod:10:05
lbt(and the framework of course)10:05
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Stskeepsso just to keep track, what are you active with atm? (my memory is a bit weak this week)10:09
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lbtMain thing 'today' is OBS packaging - I'm trying to automate a multi-system deployment test10:26
lbtalso redo the release before bed tonight - either republish or 0.0.210:27
Stskeepsalright10:27
Stskeepsi think 0.0.2 tbh10:27
lbtOK - I'm out this afternoon - so 6pm->10:28
Stskeepsme too, dinner at mother n law's..10:28
lbtI have to get some docs up about how we handle donations to support machines so I can point our benefactors at them10:29
lbt(we're waiting for the account setup ... online != quick !!)10:29
Stskeepsand i guess we should discuss how to deal with the existing servers10:29
lbtyeah - get a new one and migrate off old ones, then reset10:30
lbtand actually it's mainly monster10:30
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lbtI didn't play with the gerrit publishing yet either10:31
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lbtthe problem is "it works, leave it alone" :)10:31
Stskeepswell, it's possible to transfer srvers too10:32
lbtoh, you meant in the hetzner sense ?10:32
Stskeepsyes10:33
lbtUntil we get a legal entity it doesn't matter10:33
Stskeepsyeah, ok10:33
lbtand it turns out one of the guys at tango is a lawyer who knows about such things10:33
Stskeepstango?10:34
Stskeepsah10:34
Stskeepswhy did i think that was a open source project or something..10:34
lbt*g*10:34
Stskeepslbt: btw, community obs legal seperation thing, theoretically it only matters to me that FE/BE is 'seperate', workers as such aren't the ones doing the publishing10:36
lbttrue10:37
Stskeepsi thought that may simplify matters a bit10:37
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lbtI think we have "Mer Project" and "Mer Collaboration" as the two "organisations"10:40
lbtI think they have a 1:1 mapping at the human level10:40
lbtI should have said:  I think we have "Mer Project" and "Mer Co-operative" as the two "organisations"10:41
Stskeepsmm10:41
* Stskeeps has to go 10:41
lbtalthough no, that's not right either10:41
lbtanyhow...10:41
lbtl8r then10:41
* lbt goes back to OBS and gets out a bigger stick10:42
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vgradelbt, you have the bank account up now?11:07
vgradesry did not read enough11:08
lbtno problem - we're not having capacity problems just yet and I'm still wanting to make a solid decision on how to proceed11:11
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Stskeepshello hARSHU11:53
hARSHUwhats happening guys11:54
Stskeepsnot much, ongoing development11:54
Stskeepsso what brings you here to #mer?11:54
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hARSHUwell, i was searching for more information on upcoming rumored meego devices by nokia and following various links i landed up here ! :)11:59
Stskeepshehe, we're not related to that, but many of us worked on meego12:01
Stskeepsso the only gossip to be found here is dry discussions of technical things :)12:01
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dm8tbrtoo bad he left already12:49
dm8tbrwe could have pointed him to _today's_ Nokia press release in which they repent, abandon MS and go full out MeeGo and that MeltMeCheese12:50
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Anssi138ah.. the good old times when open meant source, not APIs that are very controlled.12:54
Stskeepsdm8tbr: nono, go full out Mer ;)13:02
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Anssi138http://www.iterm2.com/13:05
dm8tbrStskeeps: ah, right, thanks for correcting me :)13:05
Anssi138 /me wants13:05
dm8tbrdoes it allow me to 'killall -9 facebook' or 'slay facebook'? ;)13:07
Anssi138only if you run local facebook13:10
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Stskeepshello konni :)13:42
konnihey Stskeeps ;)13:44
Stskeepswelcome :) so what brings you here to #mer ?13:45
konnii wanted to see whats going on here13:45
konnisounds like a fun project and i'd like to try it... wondering if i could somehow manage to get it booting on my nexus one13:46
konni(of course not completely, but well... ^^)13:46
Stskeepsshould be possible, can you boot a rootfs of own choice, kernel over 2.6.32?13:46
konnijep... i had meego running already13:47
konniif you can call that running13:47
konnibut it booted anyway...13:47
Stskeepshehe13:47
konniwondering what controls the startup... so that i can maybe get adb up13:47
Stskeepsyeah, for some interfaces proper 3d accel is really needed13:47
konniwell the nexus one has hw acceleration now13:48
konninot sure if thats any help... and i think its a really long shot13:48
Stskeeps:nod: you'd need hw accel that works under glibc13:48
konnibut getting it to boot and being able to adb into it would be nice already13:48
konnii'd really like something open on my phone... wondering if it's still worth to get a n913:54
konnior wait if there will ever be a tizen device13:54
Stskeepsit's a quite nice phone, at least13:54
konnibut pretty expensive for the hardware you get13:54
dm8tbrthere's also that whole boot-to-gecko thing. not very stable yet. I managed to make the emulator unstable by hard rebooting it...13:55
konnii saw the boot-to-gecko on the german cebit13:55
dm8tbrthe N9 is down to about 300€ in .fi13:55
konnirunning on a SGS213:55
konniits hardly more than an unstable web browser running on a slightly altered android13:56
Stskeepswelcome to modern mobile systems ;)13:56
konnihehe13:56
dm8tbrwell the benefit of going with the fastest growing linux based platform as a base is hard to disprove14:01
dm8tbrthey get to recycle SGX/EGL drivers, RIL, other hw adaptation bits etc14:01
konniand what platform would that be?14:02
_av500_meego!14:02
dm8tbrkonni: android?14:02
dm8tbr_av500_: that's the fastest burning one ;)14:02
konnii've been using android for over two years now, it's always the same when a new version is released... slow painfull update process and just one year old devices get left behind...14:05
konnibut i'm sure you had that discussion plenty of times ;)14:06
konniif i may ask, how well does mer perform on the n9?14:06
Stskeepsquite well, but it's not a harmattan replacement14:07
dm8tbrNemo+Mer runs quite nicely14:07
konniStskeeps what's missing for that?14:07
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Stskeepskonni, the handset ui (nemo) isn't complete, hardware adaptation (external to nemo) is not complete.. but for experiments and hacking it's perfectly fine14:08
Stskeepser, external to mer14:08
Stskeepsn900 is probably the most complete hw adaptation you'd find in handset sense14:09
konniokay i see...14:10
Stskeepsif you want a open phone there are compromises14:11
Stskeepsdm8tbr: is SDE out yet btw?14:11
dm8tbrStskeeps: poke _av500_ and see him cringe...14:11
konniwhat about tizen? the things that were announced sound promising14:12
Stskeepsdm8tbr: i'll leave that for a day when i need to see _av500_ cringe14:12
Stskeepskonni: source's there, beta release14:12
Stskeepskonni: everything sounds promising when announced but waiting to see things manifest (same goes for mer)14:13
konnibut i want a device to play with ;)14:13
Stskeepshehe14:13
Stskeepswe'll see when we see a tizen product14:13
konniwhenever that may be14:14
dm8tbrso far I've seen Mer based things on more products than Tizen14:16
Stskeepsyeah.. but otoh we have the luxury of not having to hide anything14:16
Stskeepswhen i see mer out of box on some hardware, i'll be happy14:17
konnisame here... spark tablet maybe14:18
konnioh... they renamed it to vivaldi now...14:19
dm8tbrso far it's a tough race between vivaldi and gen9 for public availability - and yes I know the latter will only run through SDE...14:20
konniexcuse me, SDE is?14:21
Stskeepsi still wonder if linux would have existed if linus had gotten pestered when we'd see linux products14:21
Stskeeps:P14:21
dm8tbrhrhr14:21
dm8tbrkonni: SpecialDeveloperEdition, Archos lingo for 'open boot-loader'14:21
konniokay, thanks!14:22
_av500_dm8tbr: soon14:24
_av500_Stskeeps: ^^^14:24
_av500_Stskeeps: and its your fault of course14:25
Stskeeps_av500_: it's always my fault ;)14:26
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CosmoHillbrains....17:52
Stskeepswb17:52
lbtCosmoHill: no, #meego is the zombie channel ... here we're "bringers of light"17:53
* dm8tbr throws lbt and CosmoHill a light-bulb each17:54
CosmoHillyay17:54
lbtLED I hope?17:55
CosmoHillenergy saving right?17:55
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wmaronehmm18:01
wmaroneso feeding this: http://pastie.org/371006718:01
wmaroneinto mic gets me this: /bin/cp: cannot create directory `/var/cache/meego-bootstrap/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages': No such file or directory18:01
lbtwmarone: using the SDK ?18:02
wmaronesdk gives me loopback errors (can't format the disk)18:02
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lbtyeah - that's a pain; and I can't reproduce to debug18:02
lbtwaiting for some smart+helpful user18:02
lbthint, hint...18:03
wmaronewell, I've got a perfect reproduction here :)18:03
wmaronelet me swap over to my other VM18:03
CosmoHilllbt: I'm neither smart or helpful18:03
lbtCosmoHill: true18:03
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wmaroneok18:10
CosmoHillI'm not used to this format, what is it?18:11
wmaronelbt: vm's up, let me confirm it still acts up18:11
lbtStskeeps: are we good for a .0.0.2 ?18:12
Stskeepslbt: ok18:12
wmaronelbt: error I'm seeing is Error <mount>: Bind-mounting './cache' to '/var/tmp/mic/imgcreate-Lh2780/install_root//var/cache/yum' failed18:14
lbtwmarone: so is this the latest SDK ?18:15
wmaroneyes, grabbed it yesterday18:15
lbtStskeeps: any changes since 0.0.118:18
lbtto project-core?18:18
Stskeepsno, same18:19
Stskeepstag anyway18:19
lbtjust sanity checkin18:19
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lbtwmarone: are you around for a while? I need to get some food started and get this release out?18:28
wmaronesure18:28
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wmaroneback19:01
faktorqmhello everybody, I have an N900 with the latest build of MER running from a microSD. In order to do a upgrade I did, zypper ref19:06
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faktorqmbut nothing happends, so, when I press ctrl + c, the program says19:06
Stskeepsfaktorqm: it takes a bit of time to connect and fetch19:07
faktorqmdownload (curl) error for 'http://repo.pub.meego.balblablabla" error code: user abort error message: callback aborted19:07
Stskeepsare you on wifi or 3g?19:08
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faktorqmHello Stskeeps! thanks  you, I will wait19:08
faktorqmwifi sie19:08
faktorqmsir19:08
faktorqmanother question, how I can get the symbols in the terminal windows (previously I got that pressing alt + ctrl in maemo)19:10
Stskeepstry iwconfig wlan0 power off        as root before zypper up and see if that helps19:10
faktorqmor I have only the soft keyb?19:11
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faktorqmoh! Now it says "repository 'ce_adaptation-n900' is up to date' Timeout exceeded when accesing "http://repo.pub.meego.blablalba" it seems to be a repo problem not a connection problem. anyway, there is a way to download that files in some location and then try again with zypper?19:14
Stskeepsjust try again19:14
faktorqmok19:14
vgradehey CosmoHill,19:16
CosmoHillhey dude19:16
CosmoHillReading vs Leeds Friday19:16
vgradeReading going well this season19:16
vgrade:)19:16
vgradebring you down a few points19:16
vgradewhats happened to your team19:17
CosmoHillmy friend explained the scoring on saturday19:17
vgradewe sacked our manager for some reason now we're lower than we were before19:17
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CosmoHillwe sacks ours and now we've had several great seasons :)19:18
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lbtStskeeps: release done - check of all packages dirs shows zypper-log*rpm19:53
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Stskeepslbt: ok, that should be OK19:54
lbtand... fwiw I used 'up-arrow' with a change to the "export REL=" line ... so I don't know what happened to 0.0.119:55
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CosmoHillgood program about Group B rallying in bbc420:34
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Venemohey guys :)20:38
CosmoHillhello20:38
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Venemohave you seen Plasma Active lately?20:38
VenemoI can't figure out why, but it seems to have gone even worse20:42
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wmaronehmm, so my cache mount issue was because it was located on a bind mount22:17
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lbtwmarone: sorry, I've been absolutely stuck on a problem22:36
wmaronethat's fine, I haven't been able to get the loopback issue to occur again22:36
lbtturns out resolv.conf was 64022:36
lbtall the pings and lookups worked fine as root22:36
lbtbut when running as wwwrun ... no DNS...22:37
lbtwhat a bitch22:37
lbtwmarone: OK, so the SDK makes heavy (and complex) use of bind mounts22:37
wmaroneyes22:37
lbtit *should* work22:38
lbtI suspect there will be a few corner cases - I'd like to be able to check for them in the script22:38
lbtwe've already hit things like usb drives being mounted nosetuid22:39
lbtso how did you resolve the cache problem ?22:39
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wmaroneI moved the cache to /var/ in the sdk filesystem22:41
wmaronesomewhere not a bind mount point22:41
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lbtso where was it? /home/wmarone/cache ?22:42
wmaroneeffectively yes22:42
lbtfollowing this?22:43
lbthttp://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK#Sharing_mic_and_osc_caches22:43
wmaronehm, not doing that22:44
wmaronebut I also haven't done anything with osc in the sdk yet22:44
wmaroneall mic so far22:45
lbtOK22:45
lbtI'm asking simply so we can put something in the wiki22:45
wmaroneyeah22:45
lbtwere you using the mic --cache command line option22:45
wmaroneyes ( -k )22:46
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vgradeseems like that loop issue is a one only issue for people23:01
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vgradeone time only23:05
vgradehey ash23:06
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