Saturday, 2012-02-18

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Khaledwho came up with the name mer?00:09
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zumbimaemo restructured01:10
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Macervgrade1: you around?01:19
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vgrade1Macer, yup01:26
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Macerwhat should i start doing in order to prepare to start doing stuff to this transformer to try to get Mer onto it?01:26
Macerand what type of box will i need to do it with? will a win7 box be ok or must i use a linux box?01:27
vgradewin7 is ok but with a fedora vm01:27
Maceroh it has to be fedora?01:27
Macernot kubuntu :) lol01:27
vgradewell thats what I have found to be best after using ubuntu for a while01:28
vgradenot tried kubuntu01:28
Macerit's just ubuntu with kde instead of unity or gnome01:28
vgradeok,01:28
Maceri'm a big kde fan ;) which is why i want to put active on the transformer01:29
Macerwhich in turn i guess requires mer01:29
vgradeso you can download ready made VMs from http://virtualboxes.org/images/01:29
Macerok. i'll install vbox now01:30
vgradeor create your own, recent fedora 13/1401:30
Maceryeah i'll probably just make my own01:30
vgradenext get some kernel source compiled01:30
vgradethen have a look at the nvflash tool01:30
vgradehas there been a firmware upgrade for the tf01:31
Macernot in a long while01:31
Maceri guess they are holding off until ics01:31
vgradewell we need one to get the nvflash tool and config files so we can read and write flash01:32
Macerok... for now i will work on setting up fedora01:33
Maceris mer based on fedora now?01:34
Macerinstead of debian01:34
vgrademer is not based on anything really, it took the MeeGo 1.3 packages and is maintaining them from upstream projects01:36
Macerbut does it have any relation to anything?01:37
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Maceri figured since it is using rpm that it was more closely related to a rh structure01:37
Maceri'm just trying to make sure i set up a vm with a distro that is related to mer instead of jumping through hoops to get on the same page as the devs using a different distro ;)01:38
vgradethere is some work going on to create a platform sdk which will work on any host distro using scratchbox 2 but its not ready yet01:40
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Macerwell hopefully that doesn't wind up like maemo did :-P01:47
Macerok... i'll work on getting vbox and fedora set up in a vm01:49
vgradeI don't know the full story but I'm told sb2 != sb on maemo01:51
Macerheh01:53
Maceri'm just saying that the sdk was based on sb and was totally slapped together then abandoned01:53
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Macervgrade: would it make a difference if i used 16?01:59
Macerlinux needs to seriously get away from having the cartoon mascots01:59
Macerfedora has pictures of some cartoon panda bear like people getting it are 4 years old or something02:00
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Maceralrighty well.. i'll get this all set up ... i'm doing notes on http://vetus.scientiam.org/2012/02/17/the-removal-of-ad-droid-from-an-asus-transformer-in-progress/02:04
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Maceralmost done with the fedora install02:38
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: I updated my Ubuntu10.10 to 11.10,then I use "osc build --no-verify Mer_Core_armv7l armv7el" to build qt-gstreamer locally. Then I got errors http://pastie.org/3405596. But my qemu-arm-static is "qemu-arm version 0.15.50 (Debian 0.15.50-2011.08-0ubuntu4)"03:13
Macerok. fedora install is retarded03:14
Macerlol03:14
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sonachStskeeps: when do "osc list" again COBS on my ubuntu, reports error: Server returned an error: HTTP Error 401: Authorization Required. I can confirm that ~/.oscrc is configured properly.07:06
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sonachStskeeps: do you have time to do me a favor?07:06
sonachIn Mer's platform SDK, I meet the same error,07:07
Stskeepsosc -A http://api.of.your.obs ls ?07:09
Stskeepsh07:10
Stskeepsah07:10
Stskeepson COBS07:10
Stskeepsosc -A https://api.pub.meego.com ls07:10
sonachyes, on COBS07:10
Stskeepssorry, just woke up :) what does the above command say?07:11
sonachdoing "osc -A https://api.pub.meego.com ls" reports the same error,07:11
sonachhehe, It is Saturaday, just have a good sleep:)07:12
Stskeepsok, mv .oscrc .oscrc-old and try again, type in same login/pasword as you use to log into https://build.pub.meego.com07:13
sonachI did this. it will generate a new .oscrc. And I change "api.opensuse.org" to "api.pub.meego.com", and type in correct "user" and "pass" value. same error occurs.07:14
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Stskeepsok, just do my exact instructions please, mv .oscrc .oscrc-old , then osc -A https://api.pub.meego.com ls07:15
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sonachok:)07:16
Stskeepstype in login and password as you use it on build.pub.meego.com07:16
sonachStskeeps: It works this time. but the .oscrc file is the same as before. Why?07:18
Stskeepssonach: sometimes using osc -A parameter is important, because else it may default to api.opensuse.org07:18
Stskeepsi always use -A07:19
sonachhmm, but I change "api.opensuse.org" to "api.pub.meego.com". Maybe is the bug of osc???07:19
sonachor .oscrc is not the only file for auth?07:20
Stskeepsi think the thing is that password is encrypted with the hostname07:21
Stskeepsso you can't transfer like that07:21
sonachok, thank you:)07:22
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Stskeepsi have 4-5 obs api hosts i talk to :)07:23
sonachso you change .oscrc every time?07:28
Stskeepsno, i just switch osc -A api-host07:28
Stskeepsso there's multiple entries in .oscrc07:29
sonachoh, i see,07:31
sonachsorry for my not familiar with obs and osc:)07:31
Stskeepsit's fine -- hang on a second07:32
Stskeepshttp://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/mindmap/OBS.html is a lot of my knowledge of OBS07:32
Stskeepsit's a mindmap, so you unfold concepts in it07:32
Stskeepsif you use 'freemind' program, the source file for this mindmap is OBS.mm instead at the same URL07:33
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Stskeepsthat might be useful to you07:33
Stskeepsmorn phaeron07:33
sonachStskeeps: thank you!07:33
phaeronStskeeps: morning07:33
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Stskeepshello wwweagle07:48
wwweagleHi! newcomer here.07:48
Stskeepswelcome :) so where did you hear about this project?07:48
wwweagleI've used nokia n770 and n900 and liked them a lot07:49
wwweaglethen i got a android tablet and i really hate it...07:49
Stskeepshehe07:49
Stskeepswell you're more than welcome to hang out here, if you have any questions about Mer, don't hestitate to ask :)07:50
Alison_Chaikendm8tbr wore a stylish Mer t-shirt to Embedded Linux Conference today.07:51
Alison_ChaikenHmm, why didn't I have some take a photo of us together?07:52
Stskeepshehe, they are nice aren't they :)07:52
Alison_Chaiken(Just thought of the idea now, of course.)07:52
Alison_ChaikenActually the t-shirts are quite nice.07:52
wwweagleI'm hoping to somehow port mer to this tablet...It's a smartQ R10, based on a telechips TCC8900, I can access the bootloader and kernel and rootfs, etc07:52
wwweaglebut not much more info...07:53
Alison_ChaikenA fellow named Romain ? from KDAB did a Qt demo on an Archos tablet that didn't work.07:53
Alison_ChaikenMakes me feel better about my own career!07:53
wwweagle:)07:53
wwweaglewhat did you guys do to keep alive...?07:54
Alison_ChaikenMy demo on an ExoPC worked, although I was supposed to have two demos on two ExoPCs, and one had a drive failure.07:54
Alison_ChaikenBut the really good news is . . . I think I have a contract to work on ARM again: yay!07:54
wwweagleaside from failures of every kind07:54
Alison_ChaikenFailures are part of life.   Happily my SSD failed Monday night and my demo was Thursday night.07:55
Alison_ChaikenFailure is much less stressful a few days before.07:55
Alison_ChaikenHere's the big news I heard: Volkswagen is going to ship cars running Maemo!07:56
Alison_ChaikenYes, *ship* them.07:56
wwweagle50% failure during demo and landed in ARM for work... I love this mer project...seriously...07:56
Alison_ChaikenI was tipped by someone who knows.07:56
Alison_Chaikenwweagle, I tried to fix the SSD with fsck and it didn't recover.   Focussing on one demo instead of trying to figure out how to pry open tablet seemed advisable.07:57
wwweagleMakes sense...Maemo are good. Limited apps, which is somewhat even better for infotainment on cars...07:58
wwweagle: ), I believe it's a successful one...07:58
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Stskeepswwweagle: hehe, i have a smartq 5 on my shelf08:03
wwweagleQ5 is based on S3C6410 right?08:08
Stskeepsyes08:08
Stskeepswwweagle: to port anything, you need kernel 2.6.32 or over08:08
wwweagleI have read some wiki pages,  i believe the porting strategy might be different.08:10
wwweaglebut the performance et al should be similar...08:11
Stskeepsoh i mean for your r1008:12
StskeepsAlison_Chaiken: cars running maemo? wtf08:12
StskeepsAlison_Chaiken: i really hope this isn't old Mer coming back to haunt me08:13
wwweaglewhy not? It's cool...08:14
Stskeepsmaemo's cool but not very portable from a systems pov08:15
Stskeeps:P08:15
wwweagleYou hear those drivers with road rage?08:15
wwweagleI've got this Android rage recently...08:15
Stskeepsi feel bad enough for having stimulated the rise of botnets indirectly08:15
Stskeeps:P08:15
wwweagleI try to do something, I almost did it, then some bugs in the system prevent me from doing it...08:17
wwweagleI search for the bug, I almost found a solution, then the solution doesn't suit my system...08:18
wwweagleI improvise the solution, I try walk around,  I'm almost glad with myself, then here come's a new bug...08:19
Alison_ChaikenARM11 is the most popular CPU in cars.    I wonder if the new VW will be Maemo 5 on ARM11.08:20
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wwweagleMany GPS runs linux on ARM1108:25
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vgrademorning08:46
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Stskeepsmorn vgrade08:52
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wwweagleAny thought on the new spark tablet?08:58
Anssi138would be nice to have one08:59
wwweagleSeems quite expensive...09:01
wwweaglefor basically a developing board...without keyboard...09:02
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_av500_usb keyboard?09:45
jukkaeklundwwweagle, expensive? its same price than dev board, but its an actual product with eg display and everything09:45
Stskeepsgood point, i didn't check if it has usb host09:45
jukkaeklundI think I saw that.. not sure though09:45
_av500_as long as it has uart pins to solder to.....09:46
jukkaeklundI'd be interested if there is a cheaper open deb tablet around..09:46
jukkaeklunder, dev tablet09:46
Stskeepswell, maybe some of the tegra2 based ones09:48
jukkaeklundyep09:49
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jukkaeklundZenithink specs mention OTG09:49
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tarantismLooks expensive to me when you can pick up the same(?) hardware new for £90 on ebay10:38
tarantismhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZT280-7-Capacitive-Screen-C71-Android-2-3-Tablet-PC-Cortex-A9-1GHz-HDMI-4GB-/280776541053?pt=UK_iPad_Tablets_eReaders&hash=item415f96037d10:39
Stskeepstarantism: let me find a explanation for the price10:39
Stskeepstarantism: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2012/02/spark-answers.html?showComment=1328285201712#c775517322162451888410:39
Stskeepsthat's where the markup comes from10:39
Stskeepswell, and probably warranty issues and VAT in some places10:40
Stskeepsif you don't want to pay for that markup, you're probably more than welcome to buy the cheaper version and still install the image10:42
Macervgrade: I have the whole thing set up and ready to go ;) just need to know where to get started10:45
tarantismI've played with some $100 tablets and they weren't very nice - mind you, that was mainly down to the horrible old Android versions in use.10:46
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Stskeeps:nod:10:47
lbtmorning all10:47
Stskeepsin this case it's a different software stack10:47
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Stskeepslbt: so, catchup from yesterday, you had installed a lxc worker which didn't work, we validated i586 and arm builds with chroot worker10:49
lbtsure it was a wth kinda thing10:50
Stskeeps:nod:10:50
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omega-xishi there10:53
omega-xiscan someone help me putting mer on my tegra 2 tablet?10:53
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tarantismstskeeps: Spark should keep up with my N9 ... that cost me >£500 ... but then the HW is lovely10:54
Stskeeps:nod:10:54
omega-xisi downloaded all stuff from here: http://share.basyskom.com/contour/Deployment/latest-basyskom-plasma-active-tegra2-mer.html10:54
omega-xiseverything worked out well until i need the "backup and bringup" script10:54
omega-xisthat tells me it didn't find my usb-device10:55
omega-xishow do i flash that img?10:55
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Stskeepsmdavey: i'm wondering if they'll do seperate tar.gz releases of binaries such as the gles/egl stuff, ie, versioned10:59
Stskeepsthe img is nice to have but hell to package :)11:00
omega-xis?11:01
Stskeepsnot related to your stuff :)11:01
mdaveyStskeeps: I think so eventually.  A lot will also be driven by the individual communities11:01
Stskeeps:nod:11:01
lbtso Stskeeps did you get obs working last night?11:01
Stskeepslbt: as in we validated arm and i586 builds against prerelease yes11:02
Stskeepsredirect issue is still there11:02
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lbtOK - phaeron was looking at it so I'll see what he says11:03
lbtalso since we're on chroot I'll add a login restriction11:03
Stskeepsmakes sense11:03
lbtphaeron: OK :)11:03
mdaveyhttp://elinux.org/RPi_Community11:04
phaeronlbt: didn't look at the redirect issue , but if we want a simple solution for now , we can redirect all traffic from port 80 to 44311:04
Macerwow fedora is awful11:04
Macermaybe it is just gnome11:04
lbtdoesn't work due to SNI issues - the easy fix is to https -> revproxy -> HTTPS -> CFE11:05
lbtbut that means more certs and stuff and is generally awful11:05
lbtphost uses 443 for IMG too11:05
lbtwhich is actually more important atm IMHO11:05
Stskeepsdid we try what adrian suggested about proxy?11:05
lbtyes11:06
lbthe does auth on the proxy11:06
lbtichain-ng11:06
lbtbut otherwise "WFM"11:06
mdaveyStskeeps: this one for Mer: http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoardDistributions11:06
phaeronlbt: redirect as in mod_rewrite shouldn't have problems ?11:06
Stskeepsmdavey: :nod: will look into it11:07
lbtphaeron:  on phost?11:07
phaeronyes11:07
lbtoh, eww11:08
Stskeepsanyway11:08
phaeroneww ?11:08
lbtplus traffic (including auth token) will go in the clear11:08
Stskeepsso next stage is build.pub.meego.com?11:08
lbtit'll take an extra http trip11:08
lbtStskeeps: this is that11:08
lbtbut what domain11:08
Macermdavey: i'll believe those things are real when i see people with them :)11:08
lbtas per Brussels chat11:09
Stskeepslbt: no, i'm talking about moving meego COBS to the new OBS sources11:09
Macermdavey: i'm still waiting on my pandora :-P11:09
Stskeepsso we can get prerelease out11:09
lbtmy mental s/meego.com/merproject.org/ kicks in in the wrong places sometimes11:10
mdaveyMacer: I've seen people with them ;).  Stskeeps and vgrade have Alpha boards.  Should be going on sale within the next couple of weeks.11:11
Stskeepsas well as fixing hostarch for harmattan and perhaps old mer version11:11
Stskeepsin prjcon11:11
Stskeepsf11:11
lbtok - phaeron are you around all day?11:12
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lbtStskeeps: you too?11:12
phaeronlbt: yes on and off11:13
lbtalthough we should do an announce11:13
lbtlets send out an email and do a c.obs upgrade tomorrow11:14
Macermdavey: i've seen people with pandoras ;)11:15
Macerlol11:15
Maceri hope vgrade and i can get mer on this transformer i have11:16
Maceri have a hammer ready to smash it up later11:16
Maceri have my fedora vm ready and waiting heh11:17
Stskeepslbt: no, sadly11:18
Maceri'm running vbox on my i5 laptop and am really not feeling the virt instructions making it go any faster than my older system without11:18
Stskeepslbt: but the important thing is to add Hostarch: x86_64 for %ifarch armblahblah for those prjconfs where jobs dont schedule11:18
Stskeepsfor arm11:18
lbtok11:19
Stskeepsthis will be meego imports, and old mer11:19
Stskeepsand harmattan11:19
Stskeepsin old mer you're permitted to go edit it in the Core/ checkout on fakeobs11:19
Maceryou keep a common code base across archs?11:19
StskeepsMacer: sure11:20
StskeepsMacer: same code running on x86, arm, mips11:20
Maceryou would probably get more done if they were all different bases11:20
Stskeepsnop, it would add more complexity11:20
Macerand sep devs into teams11:20
Stskeepsin fact we spend very little time on actual porting to archs11:20
Macerpossibly, but ensure compatibility with the target arch11:20
Stskeepslet's just say it's not a problem11:21
Macernot yet ;)11:21
Stskeepswe have OBS systems which handle a lot of the work that you'd normally need to do manually for multiple archs11:22
Stskeepsand our review systems automatically check if you break other archs11:22
Macerwhich would be great if the base was complete and functional for all archs in question seems like it would be better to keep them apart until they were ready to be melted together11:22
Stskeepsthey're all functional and complete for all released archs, i don't merge an arch unless all packages build11:23
Macerand then placed in the OBS systems giving the OBS an option to use arch specific code if something does break11:23
Stskeepsas we can't do continous integration if some of them fails11:23
Macerinstead you are stuck trying to find the problem losing a large amount of time... even more so if it fails for more than 1 arch11:24
Stskeepswell, i'm drawing off experience with much bigger projects, in practice, in 99% cases it will fail on x86 first11:25
lbtphaeron: Stskeeps:  I'm going to clean up ssh access to infra ... may have glitches11:25
Stskeepsin 1% case it is somehow architecture specific11:25
phaeronlbt: ok11:25
Stskeepsas practically we run against a glibc and a linux kernel11:25
Stskeepsso there's not terribly much difference11:25
Macerit just seems safer from the new base standpoint to keep things apart per arch until you have 100% functionality on all archs then find a way to bring them all together11:26
Macerespecially considering the vast amount of different arm cpus out there nowadays which are constantly being updated with new instructions etc11:27
StskeepsMacer: we're way past that bootstrap phase11:27
Stskeepswhen i say arch, btw, we have generic X86, SSSE3-enabled X86, ARMv6, ARMv7 (softfp and hardfp), MIPS11:28
Stskeepsall stemming from same sources and automatically built for each11:29
Maceroh i can understand the wanting a common code base that spans across all archs.. i'm just saying it might be best to have a fully functional working mer as a full distro on each arch first11:30
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Stskeepssure, and a arch doesn't get merged else11:31
Stskeepsremember mer is just a core11:31
Stskeepsso it's ~323 source packages11:31
Stskeepsand it does work11:31
vgradeMacer, hi, car trouble this morning so I have to sort that out so will not be ready until later11:31
Macerso is the goal to not have its own repo?11:31
Stskeepscorrect, we're not trying to include the kitchen sink of software11:31
Macervgrade: take your time. i have all day.. i will be gone for a few hours in a few hours11:32
Stskeepsvery intentionally11:32
Stskeepsdebian and fedora and opensuse, does those just fine, but they're crap for actual product making11:32
Macerthen it will have decentralized repos based on a mer core.. that seems rather... dangerous11:32
Stskeepsmer core doesn't cater to end users, it caters to vendors (ui projects, companies, device programmes, hackers making interactive streetsigns, etc)11:33
Stskeepsso we deliver a solid core for building products using, leaving UI, hardware adaptation up to them11:33
Maceroh.... that kind of sucks :)11:33
Stskeepswe're a different kind of project11:33
Macerseems so11:33
Stskeepsin practice you'll see things like spark, a device made by combining a hardware adaptation (spark device), UI (plasma active) and Mer Core quite easily11:34
Macerthat is my goal with the transformer later11:34
Macerusing a mer core with plasma active11:34
Macerbut then again.. i don't think sparks are out yet (preorder your pandora now)11:34
Stskeepsyes, not really any of our business either here, they're hardware adaptations and vendors11:35
Stskeepswe just deliver a good core for them to build with11:35
Macerso you will not be making a fully functional mer based distro?11:35
Macerat all?11:35
Stskeepswell, i'm with Nemo myself11:35
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Stskeepswhich is Mer-based as well, handset/semi-tablet oriented11:36
StskeepsMer doesn't boot without a hardware adaptation and doesn't give you much beyond a login: prompt without a UI11:36
Maceryeah. i was going to try it on my n90011:36
Stskeepsbut it is still very useful as companies really don't want to care about maintaining system core, they want to work on UI and hardware adaptations11:37
Macerreally? i was hoping to see at least dev tools in mer11:37
Stskeepswe have platform SDK which is a bit seperate from the core, we have toolchains and so on11:37
Macerso what are you using for mer's sdk in order to build upon teh core?11:37
Macerah11:37
Stskeepsso mer is self-hosting at the moment11:37
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Macerhm11:38
Macerthe lack of a software repo will be a pain later still it seems... most people.. even vendors would expect at least a minimal set of tools to be available via repo11:38
Stskeepsthere will be a set of tools to help you program against the core and build software, naturally11:39
Stskeepsjust saying that you won't see a handset UI when booting Mer on it's own11:39
Macerthen i have to beg the question. what makes mer anything more than just a simple kernel ?11:40
Stskeepsit's literally a core, it functions, with a kernel you can boot it into shell11:40
StskeepsMacer: think of it as a kernel in userland and that's a good way to see it11:40
Macerand really. mer isn't even its own kernel. it is taking the kernel that is already made by the vendor and booting the most basic of linux without any software11:40
StskeepsMacer: well, it's a bit more than 'most basic'11:40
Macermaybe i'll understand it more once i get it going on a device11:41
Stskeepswe provide packaging systems, tools outside Mer to build products with (QA systems, build systems), services handling, graphical toolkits (qt), connection managers, modem managers, SDKs, etc11:42
Macerand can dabble... but as far as it not being an end user system .. that is confusing since it is relying on other projects.. or maybe vice versa11:42
Stskeepsthe story is that the thing people used meego for, wasn't building handsets11:42
Stskeepsbut building next generation interfaces and device types11:42
Stskeepsthey liked the core as it was mobile and slim and lean and mean qt stack11:42
MacerStskeeps: in the end it always winds up being the demand of the end users11:43
Stskeepsit's a very different concept, but i think there's worth to it, because every single full-stack handset project has failed11:43
Macerthat promotes whether or not something is successful11:44
Stskeepseven the openest of device project will have the same burden of system core development11:44
Stskeepsor commercial project11:44
Stskeepsso we allow people to get that to almost zero, and share the burden with many others11:44
Macerthat it will but then again you still have to realize that a vendor will automatically shift its eyes to what people want11:44
Stskeepssure11:44
Macermeaning that mer will have to get together with someone else and show what it can do and it better look awesome for it to be a success11:45
Stskeepsand they should be able to focus on things that people want, instead of hacking on glibc packaging11:45
MacerStskeeps: you have to show mer doing something awesome ;) or at least show it working with something that makes it awesome... active seems like the most probable candidate11:46
vgradelbt, ping11:46
lbtvgrade: hey11:46
vgradeI'm following http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/OBS_Setup11:46
Maceryou should place your focus there later once you are ready to start making mer based products11:46
Maceractive has the pretty animations that end users enjoy ;) treat the end user like the people in the movie skyline staring at the light11:47
vgradelbt, I'm at "At this point you should be able to open a browser and go to your server and login to OBS"11:47
lbtvgrade: personal setup ?11:47
lbtor to be scaled up to something serious ?11:47
Macervgrade... i have to go somewhere in like 2 hours but will be back in about 5 ;) and should be home all day after that11:47
vgradelbt, personal for now, I have fakeobs up11:48
lbtOK11:48
lbtso ... I take it you can't login11:48
vgradelbt, I get OBS screen on webui, but Errorcode: 50311:48
vgradeMessage: Unable to connect to API host. (localhost)11:48
lbtIf this fails, check /srv/www/obs/api/config/environments/production.rb and /srv/www/obs/webui/config/environments/production.rb for configuration of the SOURCE_HOST and FRONTEND_HOST.   ?11:50
lbtall running on one host?11:50
vgradeyes, all on one host11:52
vgradethat did not seem to fail so I did not check ...11:52
lbtevery installation is different and the docs aren't always clear or consistent11:53
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StskeepsMacer: gtg for now, but we are doing all those things11:55
lbtvgrade: seen logs?11:55
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lbtvgrade: did you sort it?12:21
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vgradelbt, got called away sorry.13:14
lbtnp13:14
vgradewill have a look after lunch13:14
lbtsure13:15
lbtI'm writing to Hetzner13:15
lbtjust to see if they can offer any other things13:15
lbtdedicated switch or extra RAM machines13:15
lbtcomparing the EX4S cpu and EX5 cpu :   http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html13:16
vgradeso you can get all Mer machines on LAN13:16
lbtyeah - and setup vlans13:16
lbtwhich means the VMs are more secure and we don't bridge vlans over openvpn13:16
lbtwhich hurts13:16
lbtthat €100 extra setup fee for a 4S is worth it I think for the extra CPU - then we can use an existing CI builder as a VM host13:17
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sonachStskeeps: ask one question about osc. I did "osc commit" several hours ago, and I broke for reseting computer. Now I do "osc commit", it reports "package 'qtmediahub' already exists". but on WebUI, qtmediahub package has no files. what is the problem?14:14
vgradesonach, don't know what your doing but if you are trying to import files into OBS did you di osc addremove14:18
vgradelbt,Macer, back now. Car suspension spring broke so had to sort that out14:19
sonachvgrade: yes, I did "osc add qtmediahub/*"  under home:sonach14:20
Stskeepssonach: can you tell me how you made the package?14:23
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sonachStskeeps: osc checkout home:sonach; cd home:sonach; osc importsrcpkg qtmediahub-master-12.1.Mer.src.rpm; osc add qtmediahub/*; osc commit -m “initial message”;14:26
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lbtvgrade: hey, back14:27
Stskeepssonach: cat .osc/_apiurl in qtmediahub14:27
Stskeepssonach: does this correspond with the apiurl you anticipate it to be?14:28
sonachyes, it is "https://api.pub.meego.com",14:28
Stskeepssonach: i'll take a look14:28
Stskeepssonach: okay, try to go into qtmediahub dir and 'osc status'14:31
sonachStskeeps: hmm, I just did "osc remove qtmediahub/* --force" and "osc commit". Now there is nothing except .osc dir under qtmediahub. and "osc status" outputs nothing...14:32
Stskeepssonach: well naturally it doesn't ;)14:33
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Stskeepsbecause you just asked to remove it all14:33
Stskeepsremove the package in webui14:33
Stskeepsand in the dir14:34
sonachStskeeps: OK,14:34
Stskeepsand osc importsrcpkg -c qtmediahub*.src.rpm instead14:34
Stskeepsthe c means the files get committed14:34
Stskeeps / added14:34
Stskeepsosc addremove is also handy14:34
Stskeepslbt: so any updates since i left? i have more time than i anticipated today14:35
Stskeepslbt: it might not be such a good day to update cobs today as there's hackday in tampere14:35
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vgradelbt, SOURCE and FROMTEND_HOST are set to localhost14:40
lbtStskeeps: phaeron and I are working on img/mic14:41
Stskeepsok14:41
lbtI'm tidying up infra and then hitting some bugs14:41
lbtnoticed some issues like firewall not coming up on reboot14:42
lbtleaving obs until sunday sounds good14:42
sonachStskeeps: hmm, the connection is bad, and I met other strange problems... I will try it myself first and ask for your help if I still stuck in the problem. thank you.14:43
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lbtvgrade: and the logs?14:44
Stskeepslbt: yeah, i have a bit of a headache today as well14:44
vgradelbt, which logs?14:45
lbtStskeeps: np - take a break. Too easy to overdo it14:45
lbtvgrade: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/OBS_Setup#Troubleshooting14:45
Stskeepslbt: yeah.. already feel bad as i haven't been too productive for a few days14:45
* Stskeeps hates that14:45
* lbt can't throw stones ... but I'm happy you saw some of the crap14:46
vgradeStskeeps, delayed FOSDEM flu?14:46
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Stskeepsvgrade: dunno, let's see14:47
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vgradelbt, http://www.pastie.org/340828614:59
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lbtvgrade: so something isn't running15:00
lbtps -ef | grep obs15:01
lbthttp://www.pastie.org/340830315:02
vgradeok im missing the two Rails: /srv/www/obs/api15:08
zumbiX-Fade: ayt?15:16
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lbtvgrade: they should be started by apache/lighttpd15:23
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mdaveyvgrade: what is the new url for http://www.merproject.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi ?17:04
Stskeepsgitweb.merpoject.org17:05
mdaveythanks17:05
Macervgrade: sorry. i just got back as well. my father is in the hospital with a lung infection so i went to visit17:09
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lbtmdavey: what Stskeeps meant to point to was http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Source17:11
Macervgrade: whenever you get the chance i'll be around17:11
mdaveyWhat licenses are source in Mer covered by?17:12
Stskeepsmdavey: each .spec file has a License: header17:12
Stskeepsmdavey: and for each rpm you can query it with rpm17:13
Stskeepswe try to avoid GPLv2 on device currently, but also working to provide busybox offerings17:14
Maceravoid gplv2?17:15
mdaveyIs there no authoratitive list?  Would be useful to have a wiki page that aggregates the entries.17:15
zumbihow do you inspect licenses?17:15
Stskeepszumbi: manually, currently17:16
Stskeepszumbi: automated would be better17:16
Stskeepserr..17:16
Stskeepswe avoid gplv3, i mean17:16
zumbiStskeeps: I have been looking to licensing stuff too17:16
zumbifound out about SPDX format17:16
Stskeepsmdavey: agreed, or perhaps extract it with each core release17:17
Stskeepsmdavey: in short, from what i have read manually, we don't have any sort of 'only in use with meego trademark compliance' kind of licenses17:17
zumbininka and fossology seem to be nice tools for license cheking, but it looks like its early days (still) for free tools17:17
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zumbithere are also some prototype tools at git.spdx.org17:18
Stskeepsmakes sense17:18
mdaveyjust a "find . -name "*.spec" -exec grep LICENSE {} \; | sort -u" and throw it up on a wiki page, would be a good start.  Something that can at least be pointed to.17:18
Stskeepsi'll file some architectual backlog bogs17:18
Stskeepsbugs17:18
Macerwhat's wrong with gplv3?17:19
Macerstallman is going to send his henchmen after you17:19
StskeepsMacer: businesses are so happy about it that apache public license is getting popular17:19
Stskeepslong story short, it's a worthwhile thing to provide at the moment17:20
Stskeepshttps://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181 - Publish listing of package licenses along with each Mer release17:21
zumbiStskeeps: add another one to investigate automated tools to integrate within infrastructure17:21
Stskeepsyes, that's the one i'm doing atm :)17:21
zumbigreat17:22
StskeepsInvestigate automated license checks within infrastructure , https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18217:22
Stskeepsmdavey: i'll try to see if i can do a simple dump already with the upcoming release, i can understand how this would be useful17:23
mdaveyYea, I saw a demo of Fossology a couple of years back at one of the BT-sponsored events in London17:24
Stskeepsit's also possible to use Mer repositories / packages with AgileBrowser, which has license checks in-built17:24
Stskeepsand graphing of them etc17:24
mdaveyit looked promising.  Dunno how much its come on since then.17:24
mdaveyStskeeps: thanks17:25
zumbimdavey: we had a test setup for fossology at fossology.debian.net, but its mainly lots of text reports17:25
Stskeepshttp://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/attribute-n900-image.png is what AgileBrowser can show17:26
Stskeeps(this is from a MeeGo N900 image)17:26
zumbiStskeeps: is there a roadmap for mer release?17:27
* zumbi should look more to mer site17:27
Stskeepszumbi: at the moment, iterative improvements, each release is stable.. i always have problems with that question when people asks :)17:27
Stskeepsas you can't do a proper roadmap without commitments17:27
Stskeepsso instead we do the bugzilla tasks thing, which gives an idea where we're going17:28
zumbiI dont have a problem with that, but if you are going commercial, thats probably important question17:29
Stskeepsyes17:29
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Stskeepsand i agree17:29
zumbithats managers favorites.. when is X happening17:30
Stskeepswe have to get to cruising altitude (all systems, processes active) and then that's a good time to really roadmap17:30
zumbiX being foo bar17:30
Stskeepsand we're approaching that point fast17:30
zumbihehe :)17:30
Stskeepsin my head we're heading for a mer 1 at the moment, which is ~content we have at the moment, with documentation, systems available people can adapt with, platform/app sdk availability, processes running (releases happening automatically), etc17:32
Stskeepswhich is useful for building things with17:33
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Stskeepsand then mer 2 which would be allowed to regress for a while, where we do the core-toolchain split, qt5 as default, etc17:33
zumbimer 1 for next month?17:34
Stskeepshehe, i'm not making promises like that ;)17:34
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Stskeepsbut we're advancing fast towards that point where a company can really start to make an advanced mer product17:34
zumbibtw, how do you avoid gplv3 on gcc runtime library, aka libgcc117:34
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zumbiactually, there must be an exception somewhere, otherwise its a big problem for non-free sw17:35
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Stskeepsthere is, as far as i know17:35
Stskeepshttp://www.gnu.org/licenses/gcc-exception-faq.html17:35
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Stskeepsah, netsplits17:37
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piotr_hi, what's the url to clone with git?17:38
Stskeepswell, clone what? :)17:39
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piotr_the sources17:39
Stskeepsgive me a minute to write a long sentence :)17:39
Stskeepspiotr_: OK, let's start from the start: Mer is described in a git repository, in which each of the commits contain xml files and project configurations that point to other git repositories containing packages and their specific sha1's17:40
Stskeepspiotr_: http://gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb?p=mer/project-core.git;a=tree is the core and http://gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb lists all the source packages17:40
Stskeepscombine this with an OBS and an export of Mer binaries and Mer delivery system (fakeobs) you can rebuild the entire thing on your own17:41
piotr_which OBS?17:41
piotr_I'd like to build the whole project, yes17:41
Stskeepsalright then, then you want another page17:41
piotr_the problem I have is that I see nowhere the url to clone from17:42
piotr_I assume if I clone All-Projects.git I get all the sources right?17:43
Stskeepsnop, it's something else -- there's two ways: ssh://username-at@review.merproject.org:29418/gitrepo or http://review.merproject.org/p/gitrepo17:43
Stskeepsbut if you want to set up a obs and rebuild it all, you need something else17:43
piotr_can you define obs?17:43
zumbiobs = open build system17:44
StskeepsOBS is 'open build service' software17:44
Stskeepshttp://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Local_Mer , http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Mer_OBS_VM_Setup_Guide is what someone did as well17:44
zumbiservice rather than system ,its openSUSE invention17:44
Stskeepsif you want to compile just one thing against mer, that's another thing17:44
piotr_http://review.merproject.org/p/gitrepo  is a 40417:44
Stskeepstry to replace gitrepo with mer-core/project-core17:44
Stskeepswhich is a git repo17:45
Stskeepsmer-core/acl is the acl package17:46
piotr_I'm checking the local mer page17:46
Stskeepsif you want to rsync all git repos down, http://releases.merproject.org/packages-git/ (rsync @ rsync://releases.merproject.org/mer-releases/packages-git/ )17:46
Stskeepswhich the mer delivery system thing does on it's own17:46
Stskeepsthis is exact same way we make the Mer binary rpm builds & releases as well17:49
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piotr_it can't be built without this OBS stuff?17:49
Stskeepsit's a whole distro, it's built in a build system :) it isn't one single source tree17:50
Stskeepsthere'll be various ways to build packages on their own outside OBS, but if you want to build the entire thing, OBS is the answer17:51
StskeepsOBS is free and open source, too17:51
piotr_ok17:51
Stskeepstypically people don't want to rebuild the entire thing, instead use the already built rpms17:53
Stskeepsunless they want to optimize for specific systems or somehow alter it with own packages and release that internally17:53
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piotr_I understand, I'll have a look a this OBS17:53
Stskeeps:nod:17:53
piotr_I wanted to try mer in a vm or in a exopc/wetab tablet17:54
Stskeepssince mer doesn't contain hardware adaptations or UIs, you're best to try something like Nemo or Plasma Active17:54
Stskeepsor build your own images merging exopc hardware adaptation and mer17:55
lbtStskeeps: whenever someone asks about $RANDOM_MER_CONCEPT ... try pointing them to http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Category:About18:00
lbtleads to http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Category:Obs for example18:00
zumbiI think you need a bot around here18:01
lbtzumbi: we have the Stskeeps bot - it's pretty good but needs training18:01
lbtsee ^^18:01
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lbthmmm Stskeeps bot ... say "yessir"18:01
lbtit's a bit ornery sometimes18:02
zumbi!Stskeeps mer18:03
MerBotzumbi: Error: "Stskeeps" is not a valid command.18:03
zumbi!mer18:03
MerBotzumbi: Error: "mer" is not a valid command.18:03
zumbi!help18:04
MerBotzumbi: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.18:04
lbtzumbi: dm8tbr is our botmaster18:04
lbthe's in US at ELC atm18:04
zumbiah, yes, cool conf18:04
lbtpiotr_: also note that http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Source points to the gitrepos... and the 'clone url' in each one has a link to http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Contribution_in_detail18:06
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Stskeepslbt: we should probably add http://review.merproject.org/p/ on those18:10
Stskeepsso you don't need to have a ssh login18:11
lbtcan do that18:11
lbtforced Source into http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Category:About since it's important18:12
* lbt is playing with lxc and sdk18:13
lbtit may be 'safer' than chroot given mic is a bit .... rampant ... with mountpoints18:13
Stskeepsmight be, but keep in mind ease of use, i'd even prefer a starting qemu with ssh porting mapping instead of lxc18:14
Stskeepsbut good to experiment anyway18:14
lbtnot sure how much isolation qemu gives w/o kvm18:15
Stskeepsmore than a chroot18:15
Stskeeps:P18:15
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phaeron1the new mic ships an embedded pykickstarter version18:27
Stskeepsgood18:28
Stskeeps:P18:28
phaeron1!18:28
Stskeepsit might make it more portable18:30
Stskeeps:P18:30
phaeron1no comment18:30
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Stskeepshttp://lanyrd.com/2012/intel-appup-mwc/schedule/18:39
Stskeepsno tizen mention, that's curious18:39
vgrademaybe they've decided after Linuxcon and FOSDEM not to schedule anything where they have no news18:42
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Stskeepsthat might be wise, but still, MWC?18:46
Stskeeps:P18:46
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Venemohey guys :)21:08
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matrixxVenemo: o/21:20
Venemohey matrixx :) :)21:21
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Venemomatrixx: how're you?21:27
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matrixxVenemo: fine thanks, you?21:34
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Venemomatrixx: fine too, I'm working on making some ugly code nicer :)21:35
matrixxVenemo: hehe, that's always a nice cause :) I'm creating a tcpchatter to create two-player games (or chat) on top of it21:37
Venemomatrixx: I'm working on irc-chatter21:38
Venemofortunately, there is a lib which handles the TCP layer for me :)21:40
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matrixxVenemo: yeah, I bet there's tens of them already, but wanted to do my own for practice21:40
matrixxmine is going to be biased forward two-player games21:41
Venemo:)21:41
matrixxnext in line, Battleships and Lost Cities board game21:42
VenemoI've been thinking about a two-player mode for puzzle-master, but decided that the result would be an unplayable experience for both players21:42
matrixxyeah, works better in turn-based games21:42
jafdWow, live people here21:43
matrixxyeah I guess we're all more or less alive here :)21:43
jafdWell. Is bluetooth firmware question on-topic here?21:43
matrixxbut anyway all this off-topic21:43
jafdYou see, I have slapped the latest Nemo image onto my N900, and it says it ain't got Bluetooth21:45
jafdGoogling turned me to https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1236321:45
Venemojafd: you'd better ask Stskeeps about that one.21:45
* jafd prods Stskeeps 21:46
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jafdWell, in that bug report, they say they have fixed the bug but don't care to tell HOW they did it.21:46
Stskeeps#nemomobile , i'm off to bed sadly21:46
matrixxjust saying the same :)21:47
Venemojafd: ask the question at #nemomobile21:47
jafdHm. Hope they don't tell me to ask in #mer :)21:47
matrixxheh21:48
Venemojafd: it's quite late in the evening, not sure you'll get an answer. try filing a bug in Nemo's bug tracker if you don't.21:50
jafdVenemo: are folks over here from EU mostly?21:51
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Venemojafd: indeed.21:54
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