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| Khaled | who came up with the name mer? | 00:09 |
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| zumbi | maemo restructured | 01:10 |
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| Macer | vgrade1: you around? | 01:19 |
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| vgrade1 | Macer, yup | 01:26 |
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| Macer | what should i start doing in order to prepare to start doing stuff to this transformer to try to get Mer onto it? | 01:26 |
| Macer | and what type of box will i need to do it with? will a win7 box be ok or must i use a linux box? | 01:27 |
| vgrade | win7 is ok but with a fedora vm | 01:27 |
| Macer | oh it has to be fedora? | 01:27 |
| Macer | not kubuntu :) lol | 01:27 |
| vgrade | well thats what I have found to be best after using ubuntu for a while | 01:28 |
| vgrade | not tried kubuntu | 01:28 |
| Macer | it's just ubuntu with kde instead of unity or gnome | 01:28 |
| vgrade | ok, | 01:28 |
| Macer | i'm a big kde fan ;) which is why i want to put active on the transformer | 01:29 |
| Macer | which in turn i guess requires mer | 01:29 |
| vgrade | so you can download ready made VMs from http://virtualboxes.org/images/ | 01:29 |
| Macer | ok. i'll install vbox now | 01:30 |
| vgrade | or create your own, recent fedora 13/14 | 01:30 |
| Macer | yeah i'll probably just make my own | 01:30 |
| vgrade | next get some kernel source compiled | 01:30 |
| vgrade | then have a look at the nvflash tool | 01:30 |
| vgrade | has there been a firmware upgrade for the tf | 01:31 |
| Macer | not in a long while | 01:31 |
| Macer | i guess they are holding off until ics | 01:31 |
| vgrade | well we need one to get the nvflash tool and config files so we can read and write flash | 01:32 |
| Macer | ok... for now i will work on setting up fedora | 01:33 |
| Macer | is mer based on fedora now? | 01:34 |
| Macer | instead of debian | 01:34 |
| vgrade | mer is not based on anything really, it took the MeeGo 1.3 packages and is maintaining them from upstream projects | 01:36 |
| Macer | but does it have any relation to anything? | 01:37 |
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| Macer | i figured since it is using rpm that it was more closely related to a rh structure | 01:37 |
| Macer | i'm just trying to make sure i set up a vm with a distro that is related to mer instead of jumping through hoops to get on the same page as the devs using a different distro ;) | 01:38 |
| vgrade | there is some work going on to create a platform sdk which will work on any host distro using scratchbox 2 but its not ready yet | 01:40 |
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| Macer | well hopefully that doesn't wind up like maemo did :-P | 01:47 |
| Macer | ok... i'll work on getting vbox and fedora set up in a vm | 01:49 |
| vgrade | I don't know the full story but I'm told sb2 != sb on maemo | 01:51 |
| Macer | heh | 01:53 |
| Macer | i'm just saying that the sdk was based on sb and was totally slapped together then abandoned | 01:53 |
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| Macer | vgrade: would it make a difference if i used 16? | 01:59 |
| Macer | linux needs to seriously get away from having the cartoon mascots | 01:59 |
| Macer | fedora has pictures of some cartoon panda bear like people getting it are 4 years old or something | 02:00 |
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| Macer | alrighty well.. i'll get this all set up ... i'm doing notes on http://vetus.scientiam.org/2012/02/17/the-removal-of-ad-droid-from-an-asus-transformer-in-progress/ | 02:04 |
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| Macer | almost done with the fedora install | 02:38 |
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| ZiQiangHuan | Stskeeps: I updated my Ubuntu10.10 to 11.10，then I use "osc build --no-verify Mer_Core_armv7l armv7el" to build qt-gstreamer locally. Then I got errors http://pastie.org/3405596. But my qemu-arm-static is "qemu-arm version 0.15.50 (Debian 0.15.50-2011.08-0ubuntu4)" | 03:13 |
| Macer | ok. fedora install is retarded | 03:14 |
| Macer | lol | 03:14 |
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| sonach | Stskeeps: when do "osc list" again COBS on my ubuntu, reports error: Server returned an error: HTTP Error 401: Authorization Required. I can confirm that ~/.oscrc is configured properly. | 07:06 |
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| sonach | Stskeeps: do you have time to do me a favor? | 07:06 |
| sonach | In Mer's platform SDK, I meet the same error, | 07:07 |
| Stskeeps | osc -A http://api.of.your.obs ls ? | 07:09 |
| Stskeeps | h | 07:10 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 07:10 |
| Stskeeps | on COBS | 07:10 |
| Stskeeps | osc -A https://api.pub.meego.com ls | 07:10 |
| sonach | yes, on COBS | 07:10 |
| Stskeeps | sorry, just woke up :) what does the above command say? | 07:11 |
| sonach | doing "osc -A https://api.pub.meego.com ls" reports the same error, | 07:11 |
| sonach | hehe, It is Saturaday, just have a good sleep:) | 07:12 |
| Stskeeps | ok, mv .oscrc .oscrc-old and try again, type in same login/pasword as you use to log into https://build.pub.meego.com | 07:13 |
| sonach | I did this. it will generate a new .oscrc. And I change "api.opensuse.org" to "api.pub.meego.com", and type in correct "user" and "pass" value. same error occurs. | 07:14 |
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| Stskeeps | ok, just do my exact instructions please, mv .oscrc .oscrc-old , then osc -A https://api.pub.meego.com ls | 07:15 |
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| sonach | ok:) | 07:16 |
| Stskeeps | type in login and password as you use it on build.pub.meego.com | 07:16 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: It works this time. but the .oscrc file is the same as before. Why? | 07:18 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: sometimes using osc -A parameter is important, because else it may default to api.opensuse.org | 07:18 |
| Stskeeps | i always use -A | 07:19 |
| sonach | hmm, but I change "api.opensuse.org" to "api.pub.meego.com". Maybe is the bug of osc??? | 07:19 |
| sonach | or .oscrc is not the only file for auth? | 07:20 |
| Stskeeps | i think the thing is that password is encrypted with the hostname | 07:21 |
| Stskeeps | so you can't transfer like that | 07:21 |
| sonach | ok, thank you:) | 07:22 |
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| Stskeeps | i have 4-5 obs api hosts i talk to :) | 07:23 |
| sonach | so you change .oscrc every time? | 07:28 |
| Stskeeps | no, i just switch osc -A api-host | 07:28 |
| Stskeeps | so there's multiple entries in .oscrc | 07:29 |
| sonach | oh, i see, | 07:31 |
| sonach | sorry for my not familiar with obs and osc:) | 07:31 |
| Stskeeps | it's fine -- hang on a second | 07:32 |
| Stskeeps | http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/mindmap/OBS.html is a lot of my knowledge of OBS | 07:32 |
| Stskeeps | it's a mindmap, so you unfold concepts in it | 07:32 |
| Stskeeps | if you use 'freemind' program, the source file for this mindmap is OBS.mm instead at the same URL | 07:33 |
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| Stskeeps | that might be useful to you | 07:33 |
| Stskeeps | morn phaeron | 07:33 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: thank you! | 07:33 |
| phaeron | Stskeeps: morning | 07:33 |
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| Stskeeps | hello wwweagle | 07:48 |
| wwweagle | Hi! newcomer here. | 07:48 |
| Stskeeps | welcome :) so where did you hear about this project? | 07:48 |
| wwweagle | I've used nokia n770 and n900 and liked them a lot | 07:49 |
| wwweagle | then i got a android tablet and i really hate it... | 07:49 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 07:49 |
| Stskeeps | well you're more than welcome to hang out here, if you have any questions about Mer, don't hestitate to ask :) | 07:50 |
| Alison_Chaiken | dm8tbr wore a stylish Mer t-shirt to Embedded Linux Conference today. | 07:51 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Hmm, why didn't I have some take a photo of us together? | 07:52 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, they are nice aren't they :) | 07:52 |
| Alison_Chaiken | (Just thought of the idea now, of course.) | 07:52 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Actually the t-shirts are quite nice. | 07:52 |
| wwweagle | I'm hoping to somehow port mer to this tablet...It's a smartQ R10, based on a telechips TCC8900, I can access the bootloader and kernel and rootfs, etc | 07:52 |
| wwweagle | but not much more info... | 07:53 |
| Alison_Chaiken | A fellow named Romain ? from KDAB did a Qt demo on an Archos tablet that didn't work. | 07:53 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Makes me feel better about my own career! | 07:53 |
| wwweagle | :) | 07:53 |
| wwweagle | what did you guys do to keep alive...? | 07:54 |
| Alison_Chaiken | My demo on an ExoPC worked, although I was supposed to have two demos on two ExoPCs, and one had a drive failure. | 07:54 |
| Alison_Chaiken | But the really good news is . . . I think I have a contract to work on ARM again: yay! | 07:54 |
| wwweagle | aside from failures of every kind | 07:54 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Failures are part of life. Happily my SSD failed Monday night and my demo was Thursday night. | 07:55 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Failure is much less stressful a few days before. | 07:55 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Here's the big news I heard: Volkswagen is going to ship cars running Maemo! | 07:56 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Yes, *ship* them. | 07:56 |
| wwweagle | 50% failure during demo and landed in ARM for work... I love this mer project...seriously... | 07:56 |
| Alison_Chaiken | I was tipped by someone who knows. | 07:56 |
| Alison_Chaiken | wweagle, I tried to fix the SSD with fsck and it didn't recover. Focussing on one demo instead of trying to figure out how to pry open tablet seemed advisable. | 07:57 |
| wwweagle | Makes sense...Maemo are good. Limited apps, which is somewhat even better for infotainment on cars... | 07:58 |
| wwweagle | : ), I believe it's a successful one... | 07:58 |
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| Stskeeps | wwweagle: hehe, i have a smartq 5 on my shelf | 08:03 |
| wwweagle | Q5 is based on S3C6410 right? | 08:08 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 08:08 |
| Stskeeps | wwweagle: to port anything, you need kernel 2.6.32 or over | 08:08 |
| wwweagle | I have read some wiki pages, i believe the porting strategy might be different. | 08:10 |
| wwweagle | but the performance et al should be similar... | 08:11 |
| Stskeeps | oh i mean for your r10 | 08:12 |
| Stskeeps | Alison_Chaiken: cars running maemo? wtf | 08:12 |
| Stskeeps | Alison_Chaiken: i really hope this isn't old Mer coming back to haunt me | 08:13 |
| wwweagle | why not? It's cool... | 08:14 |
| Stskeeps | maemo's cool but not very portable from a systems pov | 08:15 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:15 |
| wwweagle | You hear those drivers with road rage? | 08:15 |
| wwweagle | I've got this Android rage recently... | 08:15 |
| Stskeeps | i feel bad enough for having stimulated the rise of botnets indirectly | 08:15 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:15 |
| wwweagle | I try to do something, I almost did it, then some bugs in the system prevent me from doing it... | 08:17 |
| wwweagle | I search for the bug, I almost found a solution, then the solution doesn't suit my system... | 08:18 |
| wwweagle | I improvise the solution, I try walk around, I'm almost glad with myself, then here come's a new bug... | 08:19 |
| Alison_Chaiken | ARM11 is the most popular CPU in cars. I wonder if the new VW will be Maemo 5 on ARM11. | 08:20 |
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| wwweagle | Many GPS runs linux on ARM11 | 08:25 |
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| vgrade | morning | 08:46 |
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| Stskeeps | morn vgrade | 08:52 |
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| wwweagle | Any thought on the new spark tablet? | 08:58 |
| Anssi138 | would be nice to have one | 08:59 |
| wwweagle | Seems quite expensive... | 09:01 |
| wwweagle | for basically a developing board...without keyboard... | 09:02 |
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| _av500_ | usb keyboard? | 09:45 |
| jukkaeklund | wwweagle, expensive? its same price than dev board, but its an actual product with eg display and everything | 09:45 |
| Stskeeps | good point, i didn't check if it has usb host | 09:45 |
| jukkaeklund | I think I saw that.. not sure though | 09:45 |
| _av500_ | as long as it has uart pins to solder to..... | 09:46 |
| jukkaeklund | I'd be interested if there is a cheaper open deb tablet around.. | 09:46 |
| jukkaeklund | er, dev tablet | 09:46 |
| Stskeeps | well, maybe some of the tegra2 based ones | 09:48 |
| jukkaeklund | yep | 09:49 |
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| jukkaeklund | Zenithink specs mention OTG | 09:49 |
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| tarantism | Looks expensive to me when you can pick up the same(?) hardware new for £90 on ebay | 10:38 |
| tarantism | http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZT280-7-Capacitive-Screen-C71-Android-2-3-Tablet-PC-Cortex-A9-1GHz-HDMI-4GB-/280776541053?pt=UK_iPad_Tablets_eReaders&hash=item415f96037d | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | tarantism: let me find a explanation for the price | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | tarantism: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2012/02/spark-answers.html?showComment=1328285201712#c7755173221624518884 | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | that's where the markup comes from | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | well, and probably warranty issues and VAT in some places | 10:40 |
| Stskeeps | if you don't want to pay for that markup, you're probably more than welcome to buy the cheaper version and still install the image | 10:42 |
| Macer | vgrade: I have the whole thing set up and ready to go ;) just need to know where to get started | 10:45 |
| tarantism | I've played with some $100 tablets and they weren't very nice - mind you, that was mainly down to the horrible old Android versions in use. | 10:46 |
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| Stskeeps | :nod: | 10:47 |
| lbt | morning all | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | in this case it's a different software stack | 10:47 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: so, catchup from yesterday, you had installed a lxc worker which didn't work, we validated i586 and arm builds with chroot worker | 10:49 |
| lbt | sure it was a wth kinda thing | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 10:50 |
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| omega-xis | hi there | 10:53 |
| omega-xis | can someone help me putting mer on my tegra 2 tablet? | 10:53 |
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| tarantism | stskeeps: Spark should keep up with my N9 ... that cost me >£500 ... but then the HW is lovely | 10:54 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 10:54 |
| omega-xis | i downloaded all stuff from here: http://share.basyskom.com/contour/Deployment/latest-basyskom-plasma-active-tegra2-mer.html | 10:54 |
| omega-xis | everything worked out well until i need the "backup and bringup" script | 10:54 |
| omega-xis | that tells me it didn't find my usb-device | 10:55 |
| omega-xis | how do i flash that img? | 10:55 |
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| Stskeeps | mdavey: i'm wondering if they'll do seperate tar.gz releases of binaries such as the gles/egl stuff, ie, versioned | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | the img is nice to have but hell to package :) | 11:00 |
| omega-xis | ? | 11:01 |
| Stskeeps | not related to your stuff :) | 11:01 |
| mdavey | Stskeeps: I think so eventually. A lot will also be driven by the individual communities | 11:01 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 11:01 |
| lbt | so Stskeeps did you get obs working last night? | 11:01 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: as in we validated arm and i586 builds against prerelease yes | 11:02 |
| Stskeeps | redirect issue is still there | 11:02 |
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| lbt | OK - phaeron was looking at it so I'll see what he says | 11:03 |
| lbt | also since we're on chroot I'll add a login restriction | 11:03 |
| Stskeeps | makes sense | 11:03 |
| lbt | phaeron: OK :) | 11:03 |
| mdavey | http://elinux.org/RPi_Community | 11:04 |
| phaeron | lbt: didn't look at the redirect issue , but if we want a simple solution for now , we can redirect all traffic from port 80 to 443 | 11:04 |
| Macer | wow fedora is awful | 11:04 |
| Macer | maybe it is just gnome | 11:04 |
| lbt | doesn't work due to SNI issues - the easy fix is to https -> revproxy -> HTTPS -> CFE | 11:05 |
| lbt | but that means more certs and stuff and is generally awful | 11:05 |
| lbt | phost uses 443 for IMG too | 11:05 |
| lbt | which is actually more important atm IMHO | 11:05 |
| Stskeeps | did we try what adrian suggested about proxy? | 11:05 |
| lbt | yes | 11:06 |
| lbt | he does auth on the proxy | 11:06 |
| lbt | ichain-ng | 11:06 |
| lbt | but otherwise "WFM" | 11:06 |
| mdavey | Stskeeps: this one for Mer: http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoardDistributions | 11:06 |
| phaeron | lbt: redirect as in mod_rewrite shouldn't have problems ? | 11:06 |
| Stskeeps | mdavey: :nod: will look into it | 11:07 |
| lbt | phaeron: on phost? | 11:07 |
| phaeron | yes | 11:07 |
| lbt | oh, eww | 11:08 |
| Stskeeps | anyway | 11:08 |
| phaeron | eww ? | 11:08 |
| lbt | plus traffic (including auth token) will go in the clear | 11:08 |
| Stskeeps | so next stage is build.pub.meego.com? | 11:08 |
| lbt | it'll take an extra http trip | 11:08 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: this is that | 11:08 |
| lbt | but what domain | 11:08 |
| Macer | mdavey: i'll believe those things are real when i see people with them :) | 11:08 |
| lbt | as per Brussels chat | 11:09 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: no, i'm talking about moving meego COBS to the new OBS sources | 11:09 |
| Macer | mdavey: i'm still waiting on my pandora :-P | 11:09 |
| Stskeeps | so we can get prerelease out | 11:09 |
| lbt | my mental s/meego.com/merproject.org/ kicks in in the wrong places sometimes | 11:10 |
| mdavey | Macer: I've seen people with them ;). Stskeeps and vgrade have Alpha boards. Should be going on sale within the next couple of weeks. | 11:11 |
| Stskeeps | as well as fixing hostarch for harmattan and perhaps old mer version | 11:11 |
| Stskeeps | in prjcon | 11:11 |
| Stskeeps | f | 11:11 |
| lbt | ok - phaeron are you around all day? | 11:12 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: you too? | 11:12 |
| phaeron | lbt: yes on and off | 11:13 |
| lbt | although we should do an announce | 11:13 |
| lbt | lets send out an email and do a c.obs upgrade tomorrow | 11:14 |
| Macer | mdavey: i've seen people with pandoras ;) | 11:15 |
| Macer | lol | 11:15 |
| Macer | i hope vgrade and i can get mer on this transformer i have | 11:16 |
| Macer | i have a hammer ready to smash it up later | 11:16 |
| Macer | i have my fedora vm ready and waiting heh | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: no, sadly | 11:18 |
| Macer | i'm running vbox on my i5 laptop and am really not feeling the virt instructions making it go any faster than my older system without | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: but the important thing is to add Hostarch: x86_64 for %ifarch armblahblah for those prjconfs where jobs dont schedule | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | for arm | 11:18 |
| lbt | ok | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | this will be meego imports, and old mer | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | and harmattan | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | in old mer you're permitted to go edit it in the Core/ checkout on fakeobs | 11:19 |
| Macer | you keep a common code base across archs? | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: sure | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: same code running on x86, arm, mips | 11:20 |
| Macer | you would probably get more done if they were all different bases | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | nop, it would add more complexity | 11:20 |
| Macer | and sep devs into teams | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | in fact we spend very little time on actual porting to archs | 11:20 |
| Macer | possibly, but ensure compatibility with the target arch | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | let's just say it's not a problem | 11:21 |
| Macer | not yet ;) | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | we have OBS systems which handle a lot of the work that you'd normally need to do manually for multiple archs | 11:22 |
| Stskeeps | and our review systems automatically check if you break other archs | 11:22 |
| Macer | which would be great if the base was complete and functional for all archs in question seems like it would be better to keep them apart until they were ready to be melted together | 11:22 |
| Stskeeps | they're all functional and complete for all released archs, i don't merge an arch unless all packages build | 11:23 |
| Macer | and then placed in the OBS systems giving the OBS an option to use arch specific code if something does break | 11:23 |
| Stskeeps | as we can't do continous integration if some of them fails | 11:23 |
| Macer | instead you are stuck trying to find the problem losing a large amount of time... even more so if it fails for more than 1 arch | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | well, i'm drawing off experience with much bigger projects, in practice, in 99% cases it will fail on x86 first | 11:25 |
| lbt | phaeron: Stskeeps: I'm going to clean up ssh access to infra ... may have glitches | 11:25 |
| Stskeeps | in 1% case it is somehow architecture specific | 11:25 |
| phaeron | lbt: ok | 11:25 |
| Stskeeps | as practically we run against a glibc and a linux kernel | 11:25 |
| Stskeeps | so there's not terribly much difference | 11:25 |
| Macer | it just seems safer from the new base standpoint to keep things apart per arch until you have 100% functionality on all archs then find a way to bring them all together | 11:26 |
| Macer | especially considering the vast amount of different arm cpus out there nowadays which are constantly being updated with new instructions etc | 11:27 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: we're way past that bootstrap phase | 11:27 |
| Stskeeps | when i say arch, btw, we have generic X86, SSSE3-enabled X86, ARMv6, ARMv7 (softfp and hardfp), MIPS | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | all stemming from same sources and automatically built for each | 11:29 |
| Macer | oh i can understand the wanting a common code base that spans across all archs.. i'm just saying it might be best to have a fully functional working mer as a full distro on each arch first | 11:30 |
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| Stskeeps | sure, and a arch doesn't get merged else | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | remember mer is just a core | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | so it's ~323 source packages | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | and it does work | 11:31 |
| vgrade | Macer, hi, car trouble this morning so I have to sort that out so will not be ready until later | 11:31 |
| Macer | so is the goal to not have its own repo? | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | correct, we're not trying to include the kitchen sink of software | 11:31 |
| Macer | vgrade: take your time. i have all day.. i will be gone for a few hours in a few hours | 11:32 |
| Stskeeps | very intentionally | 11:32 |
| Stskeeps | debian and fedora and opensuse, does those just fine, but they're crap for actual product making | 11:32 |
| Macer | then it will have decentralized repos based on a mer core.. that seems rather... dangerous | 11:32 |
| Stskeeps | mer core doesn't cater to end users, it caters to vendors (ui projects, companies, device programmes, hackers making interactive streetsigns, etc) | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | so we deliver a solid core for building products using, leaving UI, hardware adaptation up to them | 11:33 |
| Macer | oh.... that kind of sucks :) | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | we're a different kind of project | 11:33 |
| Macer | seems so | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | in practice you'll see things like spark, a device made by combining a hardware adaptation (spark device), UI (plasma active) and Mer Core quite easily | 11:34 |
| Macer | that is my goal with the transformer later | 11:34 |
| Macer | using a mer core with plasma active | 11:34 |
| Macer | but then again.. i don't think sparks are out yet (preorder your pandora now) | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | yes, not really any of our business either here, they're hardware adaptations and vendors | 11:35 |
| Stskeeps | we just deliver a good core for them to build with | 11:35 |
| Macer | so you will not be making a fully functional mer based distro? | 11:35 |
| Macer | at all? | 11:35 |
| Stskeeps | well, i'm with Nemo myself | 11:35 |
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| Stskeeps | which is Mer-based as well, handset/semi-tablet oriented | 11:36 |
| Stskeeps | Mer doesn't boot without a hardware adaptation and doesn't give you much beyond a login: prompt without a UI | 11:36 |
| Macer | yeah. i was going to try it on my n900 | 11:36 |
| Stskeeps | but it is still very useful as companies really don't want to care about maintaining system core, they want to work on UI and hardware adaptations | 11:37 |
| Macer | really? i was hoping to see at least dev tools in mer | 11:37 |
| Stskeeps | we have platform SDK which is a bit seperate from the core, we have toolchains and so on | 11:37 |
| Macer | so what are you using for mer's sdk in order to build upon teh core? | 11:37 |
| Macer | ah | 11:37 |
| Stskeeps | so mer is self-hosting at the moment | 11:37 |
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| Macer | hm | 11:38 |
| Macer | the lack of a software repo will be a pain later still it seems... most people.. even vendors would expect at least a minimal set of tools to be available via repo | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | there will be a set of tools to help you program against the core and build software, naturally | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | just saying that you won't see a handset UI when booting Mer on it's own | 11:39 |
| Macer | then i have to beg the question. what makes mer anything more than just a simple kernel ? | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | it's literally a core, it functions, with a kernel you can boot it into shell | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: think of it as a kernel in userland and that's a good way to see it | 11:40 |
| Macer | and really. mer isn't even its own kernel. it is taking the kernel that is already made by the vendor and booting the most basic of linux without any software | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: well, it's a bit more than 'most basic' | 11:40 |
| Macer | maybe i'll understand it more once i get it going on a device | 11:41 |
| Stskeeps | we provide packaging systems, tools outside Mer to build products with (QA systems, build systems), services handling, graphical toolkits (qt), connection managers, modem managers, SDKs, etc | 11:42 |
| Macer | and can dabble... but as far as it not being an end user system .. that is confusing since it is relying on other projects.. or maybe vice versa | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | the story is that the thing people used meego for, wasn't building handsets | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | but building next generation interfaces and device types | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | they liked the core as it was mobile and slim and lean and mean qt stack | 11:42 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: in the end it always winds up being the demand of the end users | 11:43 |
| Stskeeps | it's a very different concept, but i think there's worth to it, because every single full-stack handset project has failed | 11:43 |
| Macer | that promotes whether or not something is successful | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | even the openest of device project will have the same burden of system core development | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | or commercial project | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | so we allow people to get that to almost zero, and share the burden with many others | 11:44 |
| Macer | that it will but then again you still have to realize that a vendor will automatically shift its eyes to what people want | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | sure | 11:44 |
| Macer | meaning that mer will have to get together with someone else and show what it can do and it better look awesome for it to be a success | 11:45 |
| Stskeeps | and they should be able to focus on things that people want, instead of hacking on glibc packaging | 11:45 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: you have to show mer doing something awesome ;) or at least show it working with something that makes it awesome... active seems like the most probable candidate | 11:46 |
| vgrade | lbt, ping | 11:46 |
| lbt | vgrade: hey | 11:46 |
| vgrade | I'm following http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/OBS_Setup | 11:46 |
| Macer | you should place your focus there later once you are ready to start making mer based products | 11:46 |
| Macer | active has the pretty animations that end users enjoy ;) treat the end user like the people in the movie skyline staring at the light | 11:47 |
| vgrade | lbt, I'm at "At this point you should be able to open a browser and go to your server and login to OBS" | 11:47 |
| lbt | vgrade: personal setup ? | 11:47 |
| lbt | or to be scaled up to something serious ? | 11:47 |
| Macer | vgrade... i have to go somewhere in like 2 hours but will be back in about 5 ;) and should be home all day after that | 11:47 |
| vgrade | lbt, personal for now, I have fakeobs up | 11:48 |
| lbt | OK | 11:48 |
| lbt | so ... I take it you can't login | 11:48 |
| vgrade | lbt, I get OBS screen on webui, but Errorcode: 503 | 11:48 |
| vgrade | Message: Unable to connect to API host. (localhost) | 11:48 |
| lbt | If this fails, check /srv/www/obs/api/config/environments/production.rb and /srv/www/obs/webui/config/environments/production.rb for configuration of the SOURCE_HOST and FRONTEND_HOST. ? | 11:50 |
| lbt | all running on one host? | 11:50 |
| vgrade | yes, all on one host | 11:52 |
| vgrade | that did not seem to fail so I did not check ... | 11:52 |
| lbt | every installation is different and the docs aren't always clear or consistent | 11:53 |
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| Stskeeps | Macer: gtg for now, but we are doing all those things | 11:55 |
| lbt | vgrade: seen logs? | 11:55 |
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| lbt | vgrade: did you sort it? | 12:21 |
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| vgrade | lbt, got called away sorry. | 13:14 |
| lbt | np | 13:14 |
| vgrade | will have a look after lunch | 13:14 |
| lbt | sure | 13:15 |
| lbt | I'm writing to Hetzner | 13:15 |
| lbt | just to see if they can offer any other things | 13:15 |
| lbt | dedicated switch or extra RAM machines | 13:15 |
| lbt | comparing the EX4S cpu and EX5 cpu : http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html | 13:16 |
| vgrade | so you can get all Mer machines on LAN | 13:16 |
| lbt | yeah - and setup vlans | 13:16 |
| lbt | which means the VMs are more secure and we don't bridge vlans over openvpn | 13:16 |
| lbt | which hurts | 13:16 |
| lbt | that €100 extra setup fee for a 4S is worth it I think for the extra CPU - then we can use an existing CI builder as a VM host | 13:17 |
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| sonach | Stskeeps: ask one question about osc. I did "osc commit" several hours ago, and I broke for reseting computer. Now I do "osc commit", it reports "package 'qtmediahub' already exists". but on WebUI, qtmediahub package has no files. what is the problem? | 14:14 |
| vgrade | sonach, don't know what your doing but if you are trying to import files into OBS did you di osc addremove | 14:18 |
| vgrade | lbt,Macer, back now. Car suspension spring broke so had to sort that out | 14:19 |
| sonach | vgrade: yes, I did "osc add qtmediahub/*" under home:sonach | 14:20 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: can you tell me how you made the package? | 14:23 |
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| sonach | Stskeeps: osc checkout home:sonach; cd home:sonach; osc importsrcpkg qtmediahub-master-12.1.Mer.src.rpm; osc add qtmediahub/*; osc commit -m “initial message”; | 14:26 |
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| lbt | vgrade: hey, back | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: cat .osc/_apiurl in qtmediahub | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: does this correspond with the apiurl you anticipate it to be? | 14:28 |
| sonach | yes, it is "https://api.pub.meego.com", | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: i'll take a look | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: okay, try to go into qtmediahub dir and 'osc status' | 14:31 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: hmm, I just did "osc remove qtmediahub/* --force" and "osc commit". Now there is nothing except .osc dir under qtmediahub. and "osc status" outputs nothing... | 14:32 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: well naturally it doesn't ;) | 14:33 |
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| Stskeeps | because you just asked to remove it all | 14:33 |
| Stskeeps | remove the package in webui | 14:33 |
| Stskeeps | and in the dir | 14:34 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: OK, | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | and osc importsrcpkg -c qtmediahub*.src.rpm instead | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | the c means the files get committed | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | / added | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | osc addremove is also handy | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: so any updates since i left? i have more time than i anticipated today | 14:35 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: it might not be such a good day to update cobs today as there's hackday in tampere | 14:35 |
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| vgrade | lbt, SOURCE and FROMTEND_HOST are set to localhost | 14:40 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: phaeron and I are working on img/mic | 14:41 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 14:41 |
| lbt | I'm tidying up infra and then hitting some bugs | 14:41 |
| lbt | noticed some issues like firewall not coming up on reboot | 14:42 |
| lbt | leaving obs until sunday sounds good | 14:42 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: hmm, the connection is bad, and I met other strange problems... I will try it myself first and ask for your help if I still stuck in the problem. thank you. | 14:43 |
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| lbt | vgrade: and the logs? | 14:44 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: yeah, i have a bit of a headache today as well | 14:44 |
| vgrade | lbt, which logs? | 14:45 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: np - take a break. Too easy to overdo it | 14:45 |
| lbt | vgrade: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/OBS_Setup#Troubleshooting | 14:45 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: yeah.. already feel bad as i haven't been too productive for a few days | 14:45 |
| * Stskeeps hates that | 14:45 | |
| * lbt can't throw stones ... but I'm happy you saw some of the crap | 14:46 | |
| vgrade | Stskeeps, delayed FOSDEM flu? | 14:46 |
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| Stskeeps | vgrade: dunno, let's see | 14:47 |
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| vgrade | lbt, http://www.pastie.org/3408286 | 14:59 |
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| lbt | vgrade: so something isn't running | 15:00 |
| lbt | ps -ef | grep obs | 15:01 |
| lbt | http://www.pastie.org/3408303 | 15:02 |
| vgrade | ok im missing the two Rails: /srv/www/obs/api | 15:08 |
| zumbi | X-Fade: ayt? | 15:16 |
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| lbt | vgrade: they should be started by apache/lighttpd | 15:23 |
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| mdavey | vgrade: what is the new url for http://www.merproject.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi ? | 17:04 |
| Stskeeps | gitweb.merpoject.org | 17:05 |
| mdavey | thanks | 17:05 |
| Macer | vgrade: sorry. i just got back as well. my father is in the hospital with a lung infection so i went to visit | 17:09 |
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| lbt | mdavey: what Stskeeps meant to point to was http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Source | 17:11 |
| Macer | vgrade: whenever you get the chance i'll be around | 17:11 |
| mdavey | What licenses are source in Mer covered by? | 17:12 |
| Stskeeps | mdavey: each .spec file has a License: header | 17:12 |
| Stskeeps | mdavey: and for each rpm you can query it with rpm | 17:13 |
| Stskeeps | we try to avoid GPLv2 on device currently, but also working to provide busybox offerings | 17:14 |
| Macer | avoid gplv2? | 17:15 |
| mdavey | Is there no authoratitive list? Would be useful to have a wiki page that aggregates the entries. | 17:15 |
| zumbi | how do you inspect licenses? | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | zumbi: manually, currently | 17:16 |
| Stskeeps | zumbi: automated would be better | 17:16 |
| Stskeeps | err.. | 17:16 |
| Stskeeps | we avoid gplv3, i mean | 17:16 |
| zumbi | Stskeeps: I have been looking to licensing stuff too | 17:16 |
| zumbi | found out about SPDX format | 17:16 |
| Stskeeps | mdavey: agreed, or perhaps extract it with each core release | 17:17 |
| Stskeeps | mdavey: in short, from what i have read manually, we don't have any sort of 'only in use with meego trademark compliance' kind of licenses | 17:17 |
| zumbi | ninka and fossology seem to be nice tools for license cheking, but it looks like its early days (still) for free tools | 17:17 |
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| zumbi | there are also some prototype tools at git.spdx.org | 17:18 |
| Stskeeps | makes sense | 17:18 |
| mdavey | just a "find . -name "*.spec" -exec grep LICENSE {} \; | sort -u" and throw it up on a wiki page, would be a good start. Something that can at least be pointed to. | 17:18 |
| Stskeeps | i'll file some architectual backlog bogs | 17:18 |
| Stskeeps | bugs | 17:18 |
| Macer | what's wrong with gplv3? | 17:19 |
| Macer | stallman is going to send his henchmen after you | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: businesses are so happy about it that apache public license is getting popular | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | long story short, it's a worthwhile thing to provide at the moment | 17:20 |
| Stskeeps | https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181 - Publish listing of package licenses along with each Mer release | 17:21 |
| zumbi | Stskeeps: add another one to investigate automated tools to integrate within infrastructure | 17:21 |
| Stskeeps | yes, that's the one i'm doing atm :) | 17:21 |
| zumbi | great | 17:22 |
| Stskeeps | Investigate automated license checks within infrastructure , https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=182 | 17:22 |
| Stskeeps | mdavey: i'll try to see if i can do a simple dump already with the upcoming release, i can understand how this would be useful | 17:23 |
| mdavey | Yea, I saw a demo of Fossology a couple of years back at one of the BT-sponsored events in London | 17:24 |
| Stskeeps | it's also possible to use Mer repositories / packages with AgileBrowser, which has license checks in-built | 17:24 |
| Stskeeps | and graphing of them etc | 17:24 |
| mdavey | it looked promising. Dunno how much its come on since then. | 17:24 |
| mdavey | Stskeeps: thanks | 17:25 |
| zumbi | mdavey: we had a test setup for fossology at fossology.debian.net, but its mainly lots of text reports | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/attribute-n900-image.png is what AgileBrowser can show | 17:26 |
| Stskeeps | (this is from a MeeGo N900 image) | 17:26 |
| zumbi | Stskeeps: is there a roadmap for mer release? | 17:27 |
| * zumbi should look more to mer site | 17:27 | |
| Stskeeps | zumbi: at the moment, iterative improvements, each release is stable.. i always have problems with that question when people asks :) | 17:27 |
| Stskeeps | as you can't do a proper roadmap without commitments | 17:27 |
| Stskeeps | so instead we do the bugzilla tasks thing, which gives an idea where we're going | 17:28 |
| zumbi | I dont have a problem with that, but if you are going commercial, thats probably important question | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 17:29 |
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| Stskeeps | and i agree | 17:29 |
| zumbi | thats managers favorites.. when is X happening | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | we have to get to cruising altitude (all systems, processes active) and then that's a good time to really roadmap | 17:30 |
| zumbi | X being foo bar | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | and we're approaching that point fast | 17:30 |
| zumbi | hehe :) | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | in my head we're heading for a mer 1 at the moment, which is ~content we have at the moment, with documentation, systems available people can adapt with, platform/app sdk availability, processes running (releases happening automatically), etc | 17:32 |
| Stskeeps | which is useful for building things with | 17:33 |
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| Stskeeps | and then mer 2 which would be allowed to regress for a while, where we do the core-toolchain split, qt5 as default, etc | 17:33 |
| zumbi | mer 1 for next month? | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, i'm not making promises like that ;) | 17:34 |
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| Stskeeps | but we're advancing fast towards that point where a company can really start to make an advanced mer product | 17:34 |
| zumbi | btw, how do you avoid gplv3 on gcc runtime library, aka libgcc1 | 17:34 |
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| zumbi | actually, there must be an exception somewhere, otherwise its a big problem for non-free sw | 17:35 |
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| Stskeeps | there is, as far as i know | 17:35 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gcc-exception-faq.html | 17:35 |
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| Stskeeps | ah, netsplits | 17:37 |
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| piotr_ | hi, what's the url to clone with git? | 17:38 |
| Stskeeps | well, clone what? :) | 17:39 |
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| piotr_ | the sources | 17:39 |
| Stskeeps | give me a minute to write a long sentence :) | 17:39 |
| Stskeeps | piotr_: OK, let's start from the start: Mer is described in a git repository, in which each of the commits contain xml files and project configurations that point to other git repositories containing packages and their specific sha1's | 17:40 |
| Stskeeps | piotr_: http://gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb?p=mer/project-core.git;a=tree is the core and http://gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb lists all the source packages | 17:40 |
| Stskeeps | combine this with an OBS and an export of Mer binaries and Mer delivery system (fakeobs) you can rebuild the entire thing on your own | 17:41 |
| piotr_ | which OBS? | 17:41 |
| piotr_ | I'd like to build the whole project, yes | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | alright then, then you want another page | 17:41 |
| piotr_ | the problem I have is that I see nowhere the url to clone from | 17:42 |
| piotr_ | I assume if I clone All-Projects.git I get all the sources right? | 17:43 |
| Stskeeps | nop, it's something else -- there's two ways: ssh://username-at@review.merproject.org:29418/gitrepo or http://review.merproject.org/p/gitrepo | 17:43 |
| Stskeeps | but if you want to set up a obs and rebuild it all, you need something else | 17:43 |
| piotr_ | can you define obs? | 17:43 |
| zumbi | obs = open build system | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | OBS is 'open build service' software | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Local_Mer , http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Mer_OBS_VM_Setup_Guide is what someone did as well | 17:44 |
| zumbi | service rather than system ,its openSUSE invention | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | if you want to compile just one thing against mer, that's another thing | 17:44 |
| piotr_ | http://review.merproject.org/p/gitrepo is a 404 | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | try to replace gitrepo with mer-core/project-core | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | which is a git repo | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | mer-core/acl is the acl package | 17:46 |
| piotr_ | I'm checking the local mer page | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | if you want to rsync all git repos down, http://releases.merproject.org/packages-git/ (rsync @ rsync://releases.merproject.org/mer-releases/packages-git/ ) | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | which the mer delivery system thing does on it's own | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | this is exact same way we make the Mer binary rpm builds & releases as well | 17:49 |
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| piotr_ | it can't be built without this OBS stuff? | 17:49 |
| Stskeeps | it's a whole distro, it's built in a build system :) it isn't one single source tree | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | there'll be various ways to build packages on their own outside OBS, but if you want to build the entire thing, OBS is the answer | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | OBS is free and open source, too | 17:51 |
| piotr_ | ok | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | typically people don't want to rebuild the entire thing, instead use the already built rpms | 17:53 |
| Stskeeps | unless they want to optimize for specific systems or somehow alter it with own packages and release that internally | 17:53 |
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| piotr_ | I understand, I'll have a look a this OBS | 17:53 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 17:53 |
| piotr_ | I wanted to try mer in a vm or in a exopc/wetab tablet | 17:54 |
| Stskeeps | since mer doesn't contain hardware adaptations or UIs, you're best to try something like Nemo or Plasma Active | 17:54 |
| Stskeeps | or build your own images merging exopc hardware adaptation and mer | 17:55 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: whenever someone asks about $RANDOM_MER_CONCEPT ... try pointing them to http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Category:About | 18:00 |
| lbt | leads to http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Category:Obs for example | 18:00 |
| zumbi | I think you need a bot around here | 18:01 |
| lbt | zumbi: we have the Stskeeps bot - it's pretty good but needs training | 18:01 |
| lbt | see ^^ | 18:01 |
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| lbt | hmmm Stskeeps bot ... say "yessir" | 18:01 |
| lbt | it's a bit ornery sometimes | 18:02 |
| zumbi | !Stskeeps mer | 18:03 |
| MerBot | zumbi: Error: "Stskeeps" is not a valid command. | 18:03 |
| zumbi | !mer | 18:03 |
| MerBot | zumbi: Error: "mer" is not a valid command. | 18:03 |
| zumbi | !help | 18:04 |
| MerBot | zumbi: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. | 18:04 |
| lbt | zumbi: dm8tbr is our botmaster | 18:04 |
| lbt | he's in US at ELC atm | 18:04 |
| zumbi | ah, yes, cool conf | 18:04 |
| lbt | piotr_: also note that http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Source points to the gitrepos... and the 'clone url' in each one has a link to http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Contribution_in_detail | 18:06 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: we should probably add http://review.merproject.org/p/ on those | 18:10 |
| Stskeeps | so you don't need to have a ssh login | 18:11 |
| lbt | can do that | 18:11 |
| lbt | forced Source into http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Category:About since it's important | 18:12 |
| * lbt is playing with lxc and sdk | 18:13 | |
| lbt | it may be 'safer' than chroot given mic is a bit .... rampant ... with mountpoints | 18:13 |
| Stskeeps | might be, but keep in mind ease of use, i'd even prefer a starting qemu with ssh porting mapping instead of lxc | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | but good to experiment anyway | 18:14 |
| lbt | not sure how much isolation qemu gives w/o kvm | 18:15 |
| Stskeeps | more than a chroot | 18:15 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:15 |
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| phaeron1 | the new mic ships an embedded pykickstarter version | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | good | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:28 |
| phaeron1 | ! | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | it might make it more portable | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:30 |
| phaeron1 | no comment | 18:30 |
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| Stskeeps | http://lanyrd.com/2012/intel-appup-mwc/schedule/ | 18:39 |
| Stskeeps | no tizen mention, that's curious | 18:39 |
| vgrade | maybe they've decided after Linuxcon and FOSDEM not to schedule anything where they have no news | 18:42 |
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| Stskeeps | that might be wise, but still, MWC? | 18:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:46 |
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| Venemo | hey guys :) | 21:08 |
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| matrixx | Venemo: o/ | 21:20 |
| Venemo | hey matrixx :) :) | 21:21 |
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| Venemo | matrixx: how're you? | 21:27 |
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| matrixx | Venemo: fine thanks, you? | 21:34 |
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| Venemo | matrixx: fine too, I'm working on making some ugly code nicer :) | 21:35 |
| matrixx | Venemo: hehe, that's always a nice cause :) I'm creating a tcpchatter to create two-player games (or chat) on top of it | 21:37 |
| Venemo | matrixx: I'm working on irc-chatter | 21:38 |
| Venemo | fortunately, there is a lib which handles the TCP layer for me :) | 21:40 |
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| matrixx | Venemo: yeah, I bet there's tens of them already, but wanted to do my own for practice | 21:40 |
| matrixx | mine is going to be biased forward two-player games | 21:41 |
| Venemo | :) | 21:41 |
| matrixx | next in line, Battleships and Lost Cities board game | 21:42 |
| Venemo | I've been thinking about a two-player mode for puzzle-master, but decided that the result would be an unplayable experience for both players | 21:42 |
| matrixx | yeah, works better in turn-based games | 21:42 |
| jafd | Wow, live people here | 21:43 |
| matrixx | yeah I guess we're all more or less alive here :) | 21:43 |
| jafd | Well. Is bluetooth firmware question on-topic here? | 21:43 |
| matrixx | but anyway all this off-topic | 21:43 |
| jafd | You see, I have slapped the latest Nemo image onto my N900, and it says it ain't got Bluetooth | 21:45 |
| jafd | Googling turned me to https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12363 | 21:45 |
| Venemo | jafd: you'd better ask Stskeeps about that one. | 21:45 |
| * jafd prods Stskeeps | 21:46 | |
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| jafd | Well, in that bug report, they say they have fixed the bug but don't care to tell HOW they did it. | 21:46 |
| Stskeeps | #nemomobile , i'm off to bed sadly | 21:46 |
| matrixx | just saying the same :) | 21:47 |
| Venemo | jafd: ask the question at #nemomobile | 21:47 |
| jafd | Hm. Hope they don't tell me to ask in #mer :) | 21:47 |
| matrixx | heh | 21:48 |
| Venemo | jafd: it's quite late in the evening, not sure you'll get an answer. try filing a bug in Nemo's bug tracker if you don't. | 21:50 |
| jafd | Venemo: are folks over here from EU mostly? | 21:51 |
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| Venemo | jafd: indeed. | 21:54 |
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