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| * pahartik still has not got "Bluetooth PAN" working on "Sailfish X", keeps trying | 04:36 | |
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| r0kk3rz | stay tuned for another exciting episode of "pahartik tries to fix Sailfish X" | 08:41 |
|---|---|---|
| Nicd- | most of this channel is "X tries to fix Sailfish" nowadays :P | 08:42 |
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| r0kk3rz | this is true | 08:43 |
| r0kk3rz | or 'halp i updated and it all broke' | 08:43 |
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| Lieke | my sailfish updates never fail, what am i doing wrong? D: | 08:51 |
| Tofe | Lieke: I'm in the same never-ending nightmare: no reset since dec. 2013... | 08:56 |
| Lieke | jan 2014 here :) | 08:56 |
| Nicd- | mine had to be reset once when they fixed the SIM holder | 08:57 |
| Tofe | (but I've done a complete mmc dump some months ago, I'm not a fool either :) ) | 08:57 |
| Nicd- | of course now it's reset since I'm selling it | 08:57 |
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| jankratochvil | I got a new (used) Jolla now. Internet (web) does work fine using my WiFi but installing any apps says: "Problem with Store", "Problem installing jolla-notes" (or jolla-calculator for example). | 09:11 |
| Bysmyyr | (re)login with you jolla account | 09:12 |
| jankratochvil | BTW it says: Sailfish OS 1.0.0.5 (armv7hl) | 09:13 |
| Bysmyyr | then update | 09:14 |
| r0kk3rz | oh.. yeah stop what you're doing and spend the next 12 hours updating | 09:14 |
| r0kk3rz | thats beyond ancient | 09:14 |
| jankratochvil | Tried Settings->Accounts->Jolla (=jankratochvil)->turn the light on/off, then Save, still the same installation error then. | 09:14 |
| jankratochvil | But how to update it? In some video I have seen there should be some update icon on top left corner of some main screen but I do not see anything anywhere. | 09:15 |
| r0kk3rz | in settings? | 09:15 |
| Bysmyyr | in that version, updating is hidded in some other info submenu in settings, dot remember which | 09:16 |
| jankratochvil | What should I find in Settings? I see no "update" option there. | 09:16 |
| jankratochvil | OK, I will try to google it, thanks for the support! | 09:17 |
| r0kk3rz | i dont think i ever used that version | 09:17 |
| r0kk3rz | i'm not sure you'll find much on google | 09:19 |
| jankratochvil | I have found https://jolla.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201836347-How-do-I-download-and-install-a-System-Update-an-OS-update- - but none of that works. I have nothing in "events" (that is "notifications"?) and "Settings > System > About product" also does not offer anything. | 09:21 |
| r0kk3rz | jankratochvil: i dont suppose you can install developer mode? | 09:22 |
| Nicd- | don't do it | 09:22 |
| jankratochvil | r0kk3rz: I already tried that but that also says some error. | 09:22 |
| Nicd- | with 1005 should only log in and upgrade | 09:22 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah figured | 09:22 |
| Nicd- | in about product there is no pulldown menu? | 09:22 |
| jankratochvil | but ... how? :-) | 09:22 |
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| jankratochvil | Nicd-: Ah, yes! In "About product" one additionally has to "pull down" it, thanks. Sorry I am not used to this "pulling" interface yet. | 09:23 |
| jankratochvil | But after "Checking..." it said "Up to date". | 09:23 |
| Nicd- | reset -> login -> go straight to upgrade | 09:25 |
| Nicd- | don't do anything else | 09:25 |
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| r0kk3rz | add jolla account as part of the wizard | 09:25 |
| Nicd- | yeah | 09:25 |
| jankratochvil | What does mean the "login" step? | 09:25 |
| Nicd- | add jolla account in the setup wizard | 09:26 |
| pahartik | r0kk3rz: At least I got IRC client configured on "Sailfish X" this morning | 09:31 |
| r0kk3rz | \o/ | 09:31 |
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| jankratochvil | Nicd-: After factory reset + login + About->Update it really started downloading it. Unaware what was screwed up in the installation from previous owner - the system looked wiped up the same way as after my factory reset now. Thanks! | 09:37 |
| Nicd- | jankratochvil: thing is you cannot try to install apps or dev mode in the old versions | 09:39 |
| Nicd- | it will screw it up somehow and be unable to upgrade | 09:39 |
| Nicd- | btw you have many many upgrades in front of you as it can't upgrade to latest straight away | 09:39 |
| jankratochvil | /o\ | 09:39 |
| Nicd- | so it will take some time to do. but don't use it for anything else than upgrading until you are on the latest to be on the safe side | 09:39 |
| jankratochvil | yes sir | 09:40 |
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| r0kk3rz | latest stable is like 2.1.2 btw | 09:43 |
| r0kk3rz | 1.0.0 was the first ever release | 09:43 |
| Nicd- | oh I remember those days | 09:45 |
| pahartik | r0kk3rz: Current three issues (for me) with initial version of "Sailfish X" are: "connman" DNS setting not working like before, mobile network settings not saved across reboot, Bluetooth PAN not working at all (I am aware that Bluetooth is not supported in first release) | 09:45 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah bt is a bit shaky still, we're lucky it works at all really | 09:46 |
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| pahartik | r0kk3rz: But switching to "BlueZ 5" stack is good | 09:50 |
| r0kk3rz | its not really a bluez issue | 09:54 |
| pahartik | r0kk3rz: Is it Linux kernel issue with tricky hardware support then? | 09:55 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah basically, due to the way android works the kernel doesnt need to support the hardware | 09:56 |
| r0kk3rz | so, the manufacturers dont create kernel drivers | 09:56 |
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| pahartik | r0kk3rz: Acknowledged | 10:02 |
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| keithzg[m] | Any news on opening up Sailfish X sales to elsewhere in the world? Even if just as a tablet refund, I'd take that in a heartbeat ;) | 10:42 |
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| r0kk3rz | keithzg[m]: anywhere you had in mind? | 10:48 |
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| keithzg[m] | r0kk3rz: As someone living in Canada that's certainly my selfish top-priority ;) but in general I'm curious about any news of expansion beyond the general euro zone | 10:49 |
| r0kk3rz | i havent heard anything about any further expansion | 10:50 |
| inte | why is the sale of jolla x restricted to the European region at all? | 10:55 |
| inte | are there any legal issues? | 10:55 |
| r0kk3rz | i think its a payment thing mostly | 10:56 |
| r0kk3rz | people have been sneeky with VPNs and such though | 10:56 |
| inte | well but they accept credit cards, don't they? | 10:58 |
| inte | and they could maybe also offer paypal though I don't know if paypal would offer buyers protection in that case which can often become a problem for the seller | 10:59 |
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| r0kk3rz | yeah i dont think its quite that simple | 11:00 |
| * inte really had some issues with paypal and would never offer paypal as a payment method on ebay again | 11:00 | |
| inte | interested in the story? | 11:00 |
| r0kk3rz | jolla hasnt been forthcoming with the story | 11:00 |
| inte | no, MY story :) | 11:00 |
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| inte | i once sold a brandnew samsung phone on ebay | 11:01 |
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| inte | got that phone from my phone company, but didn't need it since i was using the jolla already | 11:01 |
| inte | so i sold it on ebay short before christmas, for, lets say, 350€ | 11:02 |
| * inte .oO(don't remember the exact amount) | 11:02 | |
| inte | anyways | 11:02 |
| inte | the buyer paid through paypal and I shipped through DHL, with a tracking number | 11:03 |
| inte | the parcel never made it to the buyer and got lost | 11:03 |
| inte | eventually, the buyer went for buyers protection, so DHL contacted me and I gave them the tracking ID | 11:03 |
| inte | however, paypal still granted buyers protection to the buyer and i lost my money | 11:04 |
| inte | got the phone back 4 month later, when DHL finally found it | 11:04 |
| inte | at that time, the phone already lost like 200€ in value because the next model was already out and christmas was long over | 11:05 |
| inte | in fact, paypal should have never granted buyers protection in that case, because shipping is a buyers risk, not a sellers risk | 11:05 |
| inte | i could have gone to sue the seller to still pay me the full amount but I didn't, because I'm a nice guy | 11:06 |
| inte | and a bit lazy | 11:06 |
| inte | :) | 11:06 |
| inte | therefore, I would never sell anything on ebay and offer paypal payment again. | 11:06 |
| inte | Granting buyers protection in a case like this is not conform to the german laws IMHO | 11:07 |
| inte | therefore, instead of sueing paypal I rather just don't use it any more. | 11:08 |
| pketo_ | I don't know, but I would not expect shipping issues to be buyers risk... | 11:09 |
| inte | pketo_: it is | 11:10 |
| pketo_ | that sounds wrong :) | 11:10 |
| inte | pketo_: in Germany, that is the law | 11:10 |
| inte | at least for uninsured shipping, which is usually the case | 11:11 |
| pketo_ | ok | 11:11 |
| r0kk3rz | i think in aus its the sellers risk | 11:12 |
| r0kk3rz | which imo makes sense, they typically choose who to ship with after all | 11:13 |
| inte | http://www.ebay.de/gds/Wer-traegt-das-Risiko-Gefahrenuebergang-bei-Internetkauf-/10000000017660536/g.html | 11:14 |
| inte | its german but google translate might help | 11:15 |
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| inte | as soon as you handed the parcel over to DHL, it's buyers risk | 11:15 |
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| r0kk3rz | im sure you're right, but its interesting how consumer laws differ in this regard | 11:16 |
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| inte | i guess it's for private sales only | 11:18 |
| inte | however, still, paypal really sucks | 11:18 |
| inte | i still use it for payments sometimes, but never again for sales | 11:18 |
| inte | it's an unpredictable risk | 11:18 |
| inte | paypal should not grant buyers protection in these cases, but they do, and they don't care | 11:19 |
| inte | and as long as noone sues them they wouldn't change | 11:19 |
| r0kk3rz | in these instantances someone will be the loser, sucks that in this case that was you | 11:21 |
| inte | i would have won if I'd gone to court | 11:22 |
| inte | maybe i should have gone | 11:22 |
| inte | but i was pretty busy with other things | 11:22 |
| Temppu-Teme | going to court for a ~200e claim seems like a gamble | 11:23 |
| Temppu-Teme | if you don't win you'll be paying a lot of lawyers fees and shit, at least here in finland | 11:24 |
| r0kk3rz | you dont have a small claims court? | 11:24 |
| inte | well in this case, it might (probably) have led to paypal changing it's behavior and would have been a good thing for private sellers in general | 11:25 |
| Temppu-Teme | here in finland i don't think we have that | 11:25 |
| Temppu-Teme | which is just retarded, you can't really go to court for anything below let's say a thousand euros if it's not out of principle / in order to make a pre-case | 11:26 |
| r0kk3rz | Temppu-Teme: that sucks, its a good concept really. claims under £2000 with no lawyers allowed and pretty small court fees | 11:26 |
| Temppu-Teme | yeah, sure would be nice. now a lot of companies and individuals get away with stuff because it's just too much of a risk to enter court (since you might have to pay your own fees + the other party's) if you are not 100% sure you'll win | 11:27 |
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| Temppu-Teme | and then again we have a "market court" (markkinaoikeus for the finns around here) which is abused. in that court there is no presumption of innocence, so for example there are companies who specialize in sueing people for piracy. they create a honey pot torrent and gather all the IP addresses. then the defendant has to prove it was not them who did the piracy. if you lose on top of the (very | 11:32 |
| Temppu-Teme | small) amount of compensation for the actual piracy you'll have to be thousands of euros of lawyer's fees | 11:32 |
| Temppu-Teme | so typically the defendant's only choice is to settle out of court for some hundreds of euros because even if you're innocent the risk is too high | 11:33 |
| Temppu-Teme | plain out extortion :/ | 11:33 |
| r0kk3rz | oh wow thats terrible | 11:34 |
| Nicd- | they limited it now in the court | 11:37 |
| Nicd- | the copyright mafia actually have to have evidence now before they can obtain the IP holder's identity :P | 11:37 |
| Temppu-Teme | oh, well that sure is good. this has been a severe vector for abuse for a few years... good that they are reacting in some way | 11:39 |
| Temppu-Teme | what is considered enough evidence? | 11:39 |
| Temppu-Teme | if my understanding is correct previous to the limitations you mentioned the IP address torrenting was enough to get the identity from the ISPs | 11:40 |
| Temppu-Teme | and then they sent out letters in mass saying if you pay xxx euros this matter is settled, otherwise _maybe_ we'll sue you... actual court cases were probably in the tens and the business model was to create enough of a risk so that people would just pay based on the letters | 11:41 |
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| Temppu-Teme | they really do not intend or even have the resources to sue everyone, that's why they are called "extortion letters" | 11:41 |
| Nicd- | there are more specifics here: https://www.turre.com/markkinaoikeus-muutti-linjaansa-tekijanoikeuskirjeista/ | 11:43 |
| Nicd- | in Finnish | 11:43 |
| Nicd- | it seems they need to determine for each case if the sharing was "substantial" before getting contact details | 11:43 |
| Temppu-Teme | oh, Turre Legal :D i was about to mention them also, this is just my thinking but they are bloodsuckers benefiting from the actual companies doing the letters and court claims. at least at some point they said they specialize in settling these matters out of court. actually i think there was, if not a backroom deal, at least a silent understanding with the letter senders that they both benefit | 11:47 |
| Temppu-Teme | from the situation | 11:47 |
| Nicd- | obviously | 11:48 |
| Nicd- | lawyers always win | 11:48 |
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| Temppu-Teme | Turre offered a service where if you actually got sued, you could pay them to settle the matter with the company who is sueing you and pay a bit extra for them obviously, a lot cheaper than court but more expensive than paying the original demanded in the letter | 11:49 |
| Temppu-Teme | some shady shit | 11:49 |
| Temppu-Teme | obviously they would not have to put in much effort since it was the same company and hundreds of identical cases | 11:49 |
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| inte[m] | https://github.com/Sailbook/harbour-matrix | 12:08 |
| inte | thats nice | 12:09 |
| inte | there seems to be some activity again | 12:09 |
| r0kk3rz | its a bit rough | 12:14 |
| r0kk3rz | it doesnt really like dropping network connections, which for a mobile app is a little limiting | 12:15 |
| inte | yeh probably similar to the release which could be downloaded from the tjc thread | 12:31 |
| inte | works fair enough on a stable connection | 12:31 |
| inte | matrix is really a cool product and i hope they will be able to overcome their financing issues | 12:32 |
| inte | btw | 12:33 |
| inte | im still playing around with my xperia x under android | 12:33 |
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| inte | i'm still testing the hardware | 12:33 |
| inte | and i can't get usb otg to work | 12:33 |
| inte | i don't dare to unlock the bootloader and maybe void the warranty if the might be a hardware issue | 12:34 |
| inte | could also be my usb->microusb adapter | 12:34 |
| inte | can anyone recomend an adapter which is know to work? | 12:34 |
| inte | my adapter works with samsung phones but not with the sony | 12:34 |
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| inte | i want to try a different adapter so which on might be suitable? | 12:35 |
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| hagiz | Hi! Is this a good place to ask if some apps are impossible to run in alien-dalvik? | 12:45 |
| hagiz | Have been trying to run snapchat, but if it's impossible it would be good to know so I don't waste more time ;) | 12:46 |
| r0kk3rz | hagiz: did you install playstore? | 12:50 |
| hagiz | yes I did | 12:50 |
| r0kk3rz | then whats the problem? | 12:51 |
| hagiz | well, installing and running it works, but logging in doesn't work | 12:51 |
| r0kk3rz | hmm interesting | 12:52 |
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| r0kk3rz | it works for me on jolla c | 12:52 |
| hagiz | I'm getting login temporarily failed | 12:53 |
| hagiz | but if it works for you it means I should keep trying I guess, thanks :) | 12:54 |
| r0kk3rz | on wifi? or mobile? | 12:54 |
| hagiz | both | 12:54 |
| hagiz | will try removing playstore/services and reinstalling | 12:54 |
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| r0kk3rz | that shouldnt be needed | 12:54 |
| hagiz | using xperia, maybe it's different from jolla c | 12:55 |
| hagiz | it worked on my original jolla before it broke, but that's several versions ago | 12:55 |
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