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| snow_ | 8 | 10:47 |
|---|---|---|
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| r0kk3rz | hah slush press release got leaked early | 10:56 |
| r0kk3rz | decent article in TC as well https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/29/jollas-sailfish-os-now-certified-as-russias-first-android-alternative/ | 10:57 |
| r0kk3rz | i hope the comment about switching to corporate and government projects, and not consumer products is not entirely accurate | 11:01 |
| r0kk3rz | that would suck for us in the community | 11:01 |
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| tadzik | I guess that means that caldav/carddav and other business stuff will get a lot more development and QA now :D | 11:03 |
| r0kk3rz | "Essentially we maintain the open source and the open Sailfish", Open Sailfish huh | 11:03 |
| tadzik | . o O ( open solaris ) | 11:03 |
| r0kk3rz | tadzik: the guys are working on better *dav stuff, its true | 11:04 |
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| r0kk3rz | hm, not sure whether this is good news or bad news | 11:11 |
| tadzik | Хорошо | 11:12 |
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| rigo | r0kk3rz: this is excellent news :) An institutional supporter | 11:53 |
| rigo | and if it gets really bad, there should be a split from the .fi and the .ru version where on one we remove the big firewall :) | 11:54 |
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| r0kk3rz | rigo: even the bit where antti says theres no market for consumer sailfish devices? | 12:13 |
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| r0kk3rz | i guess if this corporate/govenment pivot doesnt take then its game over anyway | 12:33 |
| Nicd- | yeah, pretty bad news for consumers | 12:33 |
| Nicd- | wonder how long updates for consumer devices (especially JP-1301) will continue | 12:35 |
| larstiq | not aware of any reason to stop those now | 12:35 |
| Yaniel | guess I'll keep mine powered on on my desk until the usb port dies completely or updates stop | 12:39 |
| Yaniel | bets on which one will happen first? | 12:39 |
| Nicd- | SIM card holder dies first ;) | 12:39 |
| Yaniel | it doesn't have a SIM | 12:39 |
| Yaniel | (any more) | 12:39 |
| r0kk3rz | stopping updates didnt stop those still using n9s and n900s | 12:40 |
| tadzik | they were a bit more open though, no? | 12:41 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah true, oh well so long as they make good on the opensourcing promises we can continue with ported devices | 12:43 |
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| rigo | r0kk3rz: LOL, the bit about "there's no market for consumer sailfish devices" is not very hard to predict if there are no consumer sailfish devices as all our markets are offer - driven :) | 13:07 |
| rigo | r0kk3rz: or should I say :(( | 13:07 |
| rigo | r0kk3rz: the entire thing was built upon the reality that the N9 was more successful than any other phone despite the fact that MS even tried negative advertisement | 13:08 |
| r0kk3rz | rigo: yeah, im reminded of my own prediction this time last year tbh | 13:08 |
| rigo | and all multiplicators are already using jollas. But they can't get one. Those people only have so much time and are a bit less enthousiastic than me | 13:10 |
| larstiq | rigo: you could place an order for say 50k devices | 13:10 |
| rigo | ... better"Now they can't get one" | 13:10 |
| rigo | larstiq: or you could negotiate with fairphone and create a branch and sell branded things | 13:10 |
| larstiq | ... | 13:12 |
| r0kk3rz | rigo: clearly fairphone are unwilling to release a sailfish fp2 | 13:12 |
| r0kk3rz | and the price puts a lot of people off | 13:12 |
| rigo | or with the turing phone for high end customers | 13:13 |
| larstiq | rigo: believe me that we are trying to establish an income | 13:13 |
| rigo | r0kk3rz: the same people buy an iphone for 800€ for their kids | 13:13 |
| rigo | larstiq: believe me, I know that cooperations are you only way out :) And I know how to write those contracts | 13:14 |
| r0kk3rz | rigo: if you know how to replicate apples success, im sure jolla would like to hear about it | 13:14 |
| rigo | I'm about to make a concept :) | 13:15 |
| rigo | hm, I should stop wasting my time here .... ;-)) | 13:15 |
| rigo | but the first thing I would do would be to put fairphones with SailfishOS on them in the jolla store and offer nextcloud services guaranteed from Finland for calendar and file syncro for linux users for a monthly fee | 13:17 |
| rigo | don't expect millions, Every stream starts with a small source | 13:17 |
| rigo | for an experience dev, those things should be done in a week. If the fairphone guys are friendly, the deal should be done within 2 month | 13:18 |
| rigo | there you would have a jolla shop that provides things | 13:18 |
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| rigo | from there, one can develop B2B relations, and there I have a concept that I won't put in IRC | 13:19 |
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| r0kk3rz | im sure they have discussed internally the whole 'be a service provider like google' idea | 13:28 |
| larstiq | rigo: good luck with your endeavours | 13:30 |
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| rigo | r0kk3rz: NOT like google. Jolla is the haven for those people who have uncovered the uncanny potential of google | 13:54 |
| Hartzi | sadly 99,99% of the people won't tolerate "known issues" of sfos. Still long way to go.. | 13:55 |
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| r0kk3rz | rigo: yes obviously, but still its not a particularly unheard of idea | 14:00 |
| rigo | Hartzi: wrong, 99% of people still tolerate android devices despite the fact that they are rubbish | 14:01 |
| Nicd- | but they're not rubbish | 14:02 |
| rigo | Hartzi: I agree that 99.99% of devs don't like "known issues" at all | 14:02 |
| rigo | Nicd-: do you use a google calendar and a gmail address? If yes, you're right and jolla is the wrong device for you. This is like using an android device with an apple phone | 14:03 |
| rigo | apple computer | 14:03 |
| Nicd- | I have an Android device and an Apple computer :D | 14:04 |
| rigo | ok, disqualified for further discussion :-)) | 14:04 |
| Nicd- | I switched to Android a few months ago and I'm pretty impressed at how good it is | 14:04 |
| rigo | and how often do you have it charged? | 14:04 |
| Nicd- | sure it has problems but it's pretty stupid to dismiss it as "rubbish" because you don't like Google or something | 14:04 |
| Nicd- | rigo: less often than Jolla? | 14:05 |
| rigo | oh, that's new | 14:05 |
| rigo | but you haven't answered the gmail question | 14:05 |
| rigo | but I can answer it for you | 14:05 |
| Hartzi | rigo: well people can manage their thing and are able to use apps they need. That simple doen't work on sfos yet. | 14:05 |
| Nicd- | yes I do use them. google contact and calendar sync was a pain point on SFOS | 14:06 |
| rigo | of course | 14:06 |
| Hartzi | I need to reboot my VANILLA jolla C every day because it's just too unstable. | 14:06 |
| rigo | I would expect my SFOS to sync with KOLAB or nextcloud | 14:06 |
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| rigo | Hartzi: mine has normally uptimes of a week or more | 14:07 |
| rigo | Hartzi: ok, I do not use android apps | 14:08 |
| Hartzi | you dont propably use any android apps | 14:08 |
| Hartzi | yes | 14:08 |
| Hartzi | exactly | 14:08 |
| rigo | but don't expect Volvo to provide you a better Mercedes | 14:08 |
| rigo | hrrrm, Peugeot :) | 14:08 |
| Hartzi | I expect volvo to do all the same things that mercedes does | 14:09 |
| *** dirkvl_ is now known as dirkvl | 14:09 | |
| Hartzi | with different UX | 14:09 |
| rigo | Hartzi: then get yourself sold by google | 14:09 |
| rigo | you'll get everything because there is the ad revenue stream | 14:09 |
| rigo | or go iOS and be unable to share music via bluetooth | 14:10 |
| Hartzi | seriously. Even the basic things are problematic with sfos | 14:10 |
| Nicd- | rigo: I haven't heard many good things about SFOS's owncloud integration either. and SFOS's strategy can't be that it does not work with any products of major companies. I don't have the time or patience to set up and maintain my own (own|next)cloud instance | 14:10 |
| * rigo hasn't encountered difficulties, except for those data krakens (FB etc) | 14:10 | |
| Hartzi | it's like kar that have only three wheels. Flips now and then. There is nothing wrong to demand stable UX. | 14:11 |
| Hartzi | car* | 14:11 |
| rigo | Nicd-: indeed, the discussion shows the vulnerabilities. And if there is no integrated solution, there can't be user take up | 14:11 |
| Nicd- | Hartzi: reliant robin is best car | 14:11 |
| rigo | Hartzi: get yourself a Siemens S55 if you want stability :) | 14:13 |
| Aard | s55 has the drawback of it easily losing its keys | 14:14 |
| Nicd- | rigo: that's a pretty bad attitude | 14:14 |
| rigo | Nicd-: and re-read my suggestion. I said they should create/maintain a nextcloud account for you in Finland | 14:15 |
| Hartzi | rigo: let's keep the ancient relics in museums. You would't like to drive T-Ford either. | 14:15 |
| Nicd- | my Android phone is more stable than my Jolla was | 14:15 |
| Nicd- | rigo: but I don't want a nextcloud account. and who pays for it? | 14:16 |
| rigo | Nicd-: and you're happy google user. There is nothing to gain for you by a jolla phone. It is useless for jolla to compete with google on that level | 14:16 |
| rigo | jolla needs a distinct value proposition | 14:17 |
| rigo | and that is security and privacy | 14:17 |
| rigo | ok, not there yet, but the potential is there. | 14:17 |
| Hartzi | sounds like jolla need people more than people needs jolla.. | 14:17 |
| Nicd- | there are things to gain. like the gesture based UI which I liked very much. and full and easy access via terminal for example | 14:17 |
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| Aard | rigo: there's years of work, and jolla pretty much lost two years because management didn't believe in the 'secure phone' thing, until they got forced to do that by russia now | 14:18 |
| Nicd- | I can be a google and jolla user at the same time and get the best of both (I did for a good while) | 14:18 |
| rigo | Nicd-: but that's part of the philosophy behind. In android, you'll always be server - controlled and in iOS you'll only get to toast apple toasts | 14:18 |
| rigo | Aard: +1 | 14:19 |
| Nicd- | what does server-controlled mean here? | 14:19 |
| rigo | Aard: and the management says "have no users" after massively fending off users. Which is hilarious and the reason why I love it :) | 14:19 |
| rigo | Nicd-: ever heard about a thing called web? | 14:20 |
| r0kk3rz | Aard: yeah its funny, the two customers of jolla (russians and turing) both want security over everything else | 14:20 |
| rigo | r0kk3rz: and AFAIK, they have no alternative | 14:20 |
| Aard | r0kk3rz: other leads we had back then would've been about security as well (which now can't happen anymore), but no, that's not a valid direction to go | 14:21 |
| Nicd- | rigo: cut your sarcastic attitude | 14:21 |
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| rigo | Nicd-: ok, seriously, the designed is focused on data collection and less on user control. This makes much sense for a certain type of consumer devices. And much less sense if you want to be the master at home | 14:40 |
| rigo | you can see this in dialogs, the type of preferences, omissions and the like | 14:40 |
| Nicd- | thing is, I'm being pragmatic. I can do more things with it than I could with my Jolla. more things that matter to me | 14:41 |
| rigo | oh yes, and the pragmatic are exactly the type of people that create the dynamics that got us there. They swallow whatever collateral caveat not immediately palpable if the thing does the basic functions well. | 14:42 |
| rigo | Nicd-: for me this wasn't the case as I had bad android hardware and this terrible android lag | 14:43 |
| rigo | I still have that lag for the android apps on my jolla | 14:43 |
| rigo | if I use them | 14:43 |
| rigo | so I must admit that my jollaC is as stable and well functioning as my N9 was. Except for the camera | 14:44 |
| Nicd- | Well what can you do? I gave Jolla a chance for 3 years. In the end I couldn't trust it | 14:47 |
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| r0kk3rz | you have to wonder, if blackberry wasnt successful with running a business / government oriented model, what chance goes jolla have | 14:47 |
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| Nicd- | If you don't trust Google you can just root your phone and run some ROM without G services | 14:47 |
| rigo | Nicd-: sure you could do that. Other may want to buy a different phone | 14:48 |
| rigo | Others even | 14:48 |
| Nicd- | Didn't have much of a choice since sfos was finished for me | 14:49 |
| Nicd- | At least for the time being | 14:49 |
| rigo | The jollaC was sold within 15min and the management claims there are no users. I wonder what they are looking for | 14:49 |
| abranson | that's a deadend though - if you buy things that you need to make unauthorized modifications to, then you're still agreeing and condoning their deal | 14:49 |
| abranson | one day you may not be able to root phones anymore | 14:49 |
| rigo | TCG rulz :) | 14:49 |
| abranson | at least make sure you buy a phone that accepts that as part of the deal :) | 14:49 |
| Nicd- | They can't remove rooting from an existing device | 14:51 |
| Nicd- | Of course you have to check it when buying a new one | 14:51 |
| r0kk3rz | rigo: selling 1500 devices is not selling 50k devices a month | 14:51 |
| Aard | Nicd-: they can, see playstation :p | 14:52 |
| rigo | Nicd-: my friends from CCC told me iOS is pretty secure until you root it | 14:52 |
| rigo | the challenge is to have a phone and root it too :) | 14:52 |
| abranson | rooting is just such a self-defeating action | 14:53 |
| rigo | r0kk3rz: you need to sell 50k devices if you have your device built in China and if your fix costs are too high | 14:53 |
| abranson | you kill your support options, sometimes warranty. and you support phones that need rooting to be useful. | 14:53 |
| rigo | r0kk3rz: both can be changed for a branch of the business | 14:53 |
| Nicd- | abranson: I haven't rooted btw, I don't need it | 14:54 |
| r0kk3rz | where else would you build device other than china? | 14:54 |
| Nicd- | Finland :D like Turing's mystery factory | 14:55 |
| rigo | r0kk3rz: either you get NSA backdoors or Chinese backdoors | 14:56 |
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| r0kk3rz | Nicd-: borrowing santas elves no doubt, thats the real reason for the factory in salo | 14:56 |
| rigo | r0kk3rz: at some point in time you may want something else. HERE is the best example that it can work | 14:56 |
| r0kk3rz | rigo: i'll take the chinese backdoors thanks | 14:57 |
| rigo | r0kk3rz: than an android phone from china for $$25 is just fine | 14:57 |
| rigo | :) | 14:58 |
| r0kk3rz | the jollac is fine for now | 15:00 |
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| r0kk3rz | rigo: i look forward to seeing your phone/service startup btw | 15:06 |
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| rigo | r0kk3rz: I will not personnally make such startup as I have already too many paid jobs, but I will try to contribute to make it happen | 16:07 |
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| Sidde | great news today about the russian deal | 16:58 |
| Sidde | a small hope for the future of sailfish | 16:59 |
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| SebthreeBQM10HD | sledges, ping | 17:00 |
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| EyeA | Jolla )0!1@ )0h | 17:01 |
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| SebthreeBQM10HD | EyeA, Jolla Jolla Jolla | 17:01 |
| EyeA | )0h jollian | 17:02 |
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| r0kk3rz | rigo: why so precious about your secret sauce concept then? | 17:39 |
| sledges | SebthreeBQM10HD: pong, thanks again for inviting at the Linux presentation day Bristol:) was good time! | 17:41 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | sledges, yes indeed | 17:42 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | sledges, I wanted to ask you about FODEM :D | 17:42 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | plus currently disapointed about something.... reallly | 17:42 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | but that's it's own story and thing | 17:42 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | that discusing in two other channels | 17:42 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | sledges, your going to FOSDEM agian yes ? | 17:42 |
| sledges | SebthreeBQM10HD: most probably going:) | 17:45 |
| sledges | sorry to hear | 17:45 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | sledges, did you meet the chakra guy? | 17:46 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | last month? | 17:46 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | surely you did ? | 17:46 |
| sledges | yes, Samir | 17:46 |
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| SebthreeBQM10HD | sledges, ok would you be intereted in travlling with us | 17:48 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | to FODEM | 17:48 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | but | 17:48 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | probably a bit earlier as well, as in the Thursday evening | 17:49 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | yes flying from Bristol | 17:49 |
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| sledges | SebthreeBQM10HD: i'll email you on this tonight/tomorrow, we (lbt, vgrade, stephg) usually took eurostar on a friday | 17:51 |
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| sledges | let's gauge interest:) also cc ggabriel r0kk3rz and others in UK:) | 17:52 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | sledges, oh Jolla peoplle you mean? from down here it's eaier to fly thoug | 17:52 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | sledges, also Samir is from Belgium anwyay, so will stay longer and meet his parants after that's his plan | 17:52 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | sledges, but I intend to go back on the Monday as usual | 17:53 |
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| SebthreeBQM10HD | Monday evenng | 17:53 |
| sledges | SebthreeBQM10HD: community people | 17:53 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | sledges, so you would travel to London area first, to travel with them and on train ? | 17:55 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | easier to just fly from down here | 17:55 |
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| r0kk3rz | sledges: no fosdem for me this year unfortunately | 17:58 |
| rigo | r0kk3rz: because I need to write it up first. I talked it through with Stskeeps, but it is too complex to explain without a background document | 17:59 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | r0kk3rz, not sure who you are, but how come? | 17:59 |
| sledges | but you get free drinks on eurostar:))) ticket includes uk train changes, and walk from train station to Brussels' city centre | 17:59 |
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| sledges | i also will need to attend a pantomime show thursday.. | 17:59 |
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| ghosalmartin | erm maybe? | 18:00 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | sledges, I didn' know about the drinks | 18:00 |
| sledges | r0kk3rz: pity:/ | 18:00 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | ,but it' still easier and quicker to fly from dow here | 18:00 |
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| SebthreeBQM10HD | that' two hour aleady | 18:00 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | to get to Lonon | 18:00 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | London | 18:00 |
| r0kk3rz | sledges: aye, i'll be in Aus so its not all bad | 18:00 |
| sledges | warmer:)) | 18:01 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | sledges, what's pantomse show ? | 18:01 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | a pantomine ?] | 18:01 |
| sledges | SebthreeBQM10HD: amdram | 18:01 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | pantomines are or kids mstly | 18:01 |
| sledges | yes | 18:01 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | for | 18:01 |
| sledges | sorry, cold+fingerterm | 18:01 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | sledges, oh your going to be the dame in a pantamine interesting | 18:01 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | sledges dresed up as a woman | 18:02 |
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| sledges | SebthreeBQM10HD: and you'll be dressedup as a man:D | 18:07 |
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| sledges | is for kids if you don't get stashed puns:)) | 18:08 |
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| SebthreeBQM10HD | sledges, PC World ha taken my Mum for a ride it sems really | 18:09 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | sledges, oh and UEFI ah! | 18:09 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | I think that's the saying, they taken a lot of money | 18:10 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | and for not a partiualy geat deal it seems, basialy | 18:10 |
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| sledges | use the 15days cooling off?;) | 18:17 |
| sledges | r0kk3rz: yep, .au will be wArm at least, fosdem -- ARM | 18:18 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | sledges, my Mum paid qute a lot for a lap top at pc world, for my litle bother | 18:18 |
| sledges | ok i stop now | 18:18 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | sledges, pluss all that add on rubbish they try and sell | 18:18 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | so the Macafee and care plan and uh | 18:19 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | turn out the macafee wan't paid for, so even more money then so what wa that addiotnal 225 the care plan ? | 18:19 |
| r0kk3rz | sledges: hehe w'ARM | 18:19 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | sledges, then I wen to daul boot the lap top with Linux of course, and bump into issues ah! | 18:20 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | UEFI ah! | 18:20 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | want above | 18:20 |
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| r0kk3rz | SebthreeBQM10HD: good luck buying a machine without uefi these days | 18:21 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | ro | 18:21 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | r0kk3rz, well ye thre's that | 18:21 |
| sledges | ghosalmartin: cool you might be in! hmm why i can't tab-complete you? | 18:21 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | as well | 18:21 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | unless going wih specific smal oem | 18:22 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | such as entroware in the uk | 18:22 |
| sledges | heh "you tab-complete me" lol | 18:22 |
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| SebthreeBQM10HD | then al the new lap top are UEI | 18:22 |
| sledges | SebthreeBQM10HD: i tamed me Lenovo L440 uefi to get arch in | 18:22 |
| bennypr0fane_ | Hi, my Jolla is totally not ringing. I don't have it silenced, but calls just don't make any noise! What settings might I have overlooked? | 18:23 |
| r0kk3rz | sledges: aye my machine runs arch with UEFI just fine, its a bit different but not that hard | 18:23 |
| bennypr0fane_ | sledges, can't you just turn off UEFI in Bios? | 18:24 |
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| sledges | it's all abit fiddly and was happy toforget, no dual boot tried though | 18:43 |
| sledges | :) | 18:43 |
| sledges | ah ghosal just popped in and out:)) | 18:48 |
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| EyeA | )01!@ 00h | 18:53 |
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