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| pdanek | Anyone else excited for upcoming Google press conference on Tuesday? | 18:28 |
|---|---|---|
| Nicd- | are they releasing something else than just the Pixel phones? | 18:28 |
| pdanek | Pixel phones and Daydream VR would be main things I guess | 18:29 |
| pdanek | and then new Chromecast and some new Wifi router from Google | 18:29 |
| Lieke | no, i'm not excited for anything google | 18:33 |
| Nicd- | I'm just waiting for the nougat update | 18:35 |
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| pdanek | Nicd-: Do you use Android? | 18:45 |
| Nicd- | yes | 18:46 |
| tuomasjjrasanen | Which phone? I got Nougat 2 weeks ago for my Nexus 6P | 18:48 |
| Nicd- | tuomasjjrasanen: Moto Z | 18:49 |
| Nicd- | apparently coming in Q4 | 18:49 |
| tuomasjjrasanen | Ok, cool! | 18:50 |
| tuomasjjrasanen | I used Jolla phone previously, but it got broken: there's a stripe in the middle of the screen where touch is not working. | 18:51 |
| Nicd- | mine is not broken but I got fed up with it | 18:51 |
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| pdanek | Nicd-: you got fed up? :O why? | 18:58 |
| Nicd- | pdanek: no apps and so many things didn't work. I couldn't rely on the calendar or contacts for example | 18:59 |
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| pdanek | Nicd-: And do you use Google services on Moto Z? Gmail, Gcalendar, Gdrive etc.? | 19:02 |
| Nicd- | yep | 19:02 |
| Nicd- | I had google calendar and contact sync on the Jolla, but they never worked properly | 19:02 |
| evenfall | well, yeah, the platform is half-baked | 19:03 |
| evenfall | and there is basically no development at this point | 19:03 |
| evenfall | so yea, it's pretty bleak | 19:03 |
| pp_ | I believe in 2.0.4! :D | 19:04 |
| Nicd- | there were new release notes in TJC but was it pulled back? | 19:04 |
| Nicd- | my Jolla didn't report any update | 19:04 |
| r0kk3rz | not released yet | 19:04 |
| evenfall | Nicd-: it's not new, it's just the one that got early access'd 2 months ago | 19:04 |
| tuomasjjrasanen | I got fed up with broken hw, old hw, slow development/maintenance process. I'm not really into apps, so they were not the sore point imo. | 19:04 |
| evenfall | or is there really a new one? | 19:04 |
| Nicd- | anyway, "no apps" was also a big reason | 19:04 |
| Nicd- | evenfall: yeah, a new new one | 19:04 |
| evenfall | wow... didn't show up on early access yet though | 19:05 |
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| Nicd- | "Sorry guys, there is a slight delay in putting 2.0.4 out due to technical problems. We should get them solved in the next 1-2 days." | 19:05 |
| Nicd- | posted 4 days ago | 19:06 |
| r0kk3rz | they could've gone bust end of last year, and then we wouldnt have anything | 19:10 |
| pdanek | evenfall: why basically no development at this point? | 19:11 |
| r0kk3rz | pdanek: its october and they've only released like 2 updates this year so far | 19:13 |
| tuomasjjrasanen | Sluggishness and lack of transparency. Not that I consider Google's business transparent at all, but the promise of transparency/openess helped me (and I guess quite many other Jolla users too) to tolerate the half-baked platform (as evenfall put it). | 19:14 |
| pdanek | I never seen Jola transparent | 19:16 |
| pdanek | not even in the beginning | 19:16 |
| pdanek | Jolla* | 19:16 |
| tuomasjjrasanen | Nor do I. But I interpreted their agenda that way in the beginning. | 19:17 |
| r0kk3rz | they're the most transparent mobile os company ive ever seen | 19:18 |
| r0kk3rz | i cant jump on irc and chat with android engineers. or samsung ones | 19:18 |
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| Nicd- | as for apps, it's 3 years now and there's still no way to make a paid app. there's no way to browse the app store without the phone. there's no way for devs to see and reply to comments on their apps. as an app dev that really annoye me | 19:19 |
| Nicd- | reply to comments without using the phone's store app* I mean | 19:19 |
| phlixi | i you really want to make a paid app, no one is stopping you | 19:20 |
| evenfall | pdanek: well, how many updates in the last year? | 19:20 |
| Nicd- | phlixi: there is no payment infrastructure | 19:20 |
| evenfall | pdanek: and they aren't any bigger in terms of features than they were back when they were a monthly thing | 19:21 |
| evenfall | pdanek: (well, for the 4 or so months it kept to the schedule :p) | 19:21 |
| r0kk3rz | Nicd-: so bring your own :P | 19:22 |
| Nicd- | r0kk3rz: yeah, that's really going to entice the app developers | 19:22 |
| r0kk3rz | just because google charges you 30% to use theirs... | 19:22 |
| pdanek | r0kk3rz: the IRC point if fair I guess :) but I think Ubuntu Phone project is more transparent then :) and they have way better phones, their new Meizu is gorgeous | 19:23 |
| r0kk3rz | paid apps its a shitshow anyway | 19:23 |
| r0kk3rz | pdanek: yeah i suppose you have a point there | 19:23 |
| tuomasjjrasanen | r0kk3rz: I don't know, to me Fairphone seems quite transparent. I considered that for a while after Jolla, but then decided to go first with the most androidish Android to see if it's any good. | 19:23 |
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| pdanek | tuomasjjrasanen: most androidish Android? you mean Nexus phone? | 19:24 |
| r0kk3rz | tuomasjjrasanen: in what ways? fairphone are doing good things i agree, but i dont really see how its much different to jolla | 19:24 |
| mornfall | and yeah, I agree Jolla's never been "transparent" | 19:24 |
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| tuomasjjrasanen | pdanek: yep | 19:25 |
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| Nicd- | r0kk3rz: an ad framework or in-app purchase framework would be nice too. of course open source people don't like it but developers need money too, or you will end up with far fewer options. (not that it would have saved the situation alone, but it would have been a good thing to have) | 19:25 |
| pdanek | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOK1T8ZmrjM | 19:28 |
| pdanek | that's actually on older phone | 19:28 |
| pdanek | the best one is: Meizu PRO 5 | 19:28 |
| pdanek | but it's latest OTA 14 release, Ubuntu Phone development seems to be quite quick | 19:29 |
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| pdanek | And Meizu seems loyal to Ubuntu over the years, which is good. | 19:29 |
| pdanek | And Ubuntu edition of Meizu MX6 is coming soon | 19:30 |
| r0kk3rz | pdanek: looks cool, i might have to build it for my tablet | 19:31 |
| pdanek | btw Plasma Mobile is no longer based on Ubuntu Touch but on CyanogenMod/AOSP | 19:32 |
| r0kk3rz | pdanek: but how would you survive on ubuntu without android apps? | 19:33 |
| pdanek | r0kk3rz: I wouldn't, that why I don't have it :) | 19:34 |
| r0kk3rz | hehe | 19:34 |
| pdanek | r0kk3rz: but it's only matter of time until it will get such support, regardless what their developers are saying | 19:34 |
| pdanek | if they ever want to get into hands of normal people | 19:34 |
| tigeli | pdanek: loyal and loyal.. iirc it was just some time ago when they announced that they are not making ubuntu touch-devices anymore | 19:35 |
| tigeli | argh.. it was not meizu | 19:35 |
| tigeli | the other one :D | 19:36 |
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| pdanek | tigeli: Meizu keeps making | 19:36 |
| pdanek | yep | 19:36 |
| tigeli | the BQ.. it as | 19:36 |
| tigeli | was | 19:36 |
| pdanek | right | 19:37 |
| pdanek | BQ was always meh | 19:37 |
| pdanek | Meizu was always the real flagship brand for Ubuntu :) | 19:37 |
| pdanek | they make great phones for cheap price | 19:37 |
| pdanek | unlike Jolla which was always kind of average phone for above average price | 19:37 |
| wmarone | meizu does their own boards, Jolla had to outsource it | 19:38 |
| pdanek | yes | 19:38 |
| pdanek | I don't blame | 19:38 |
| pdanek | but end user doesn't care | 19:38 |
| wmarone | and smaller runs means higher per-part prices, so you have to knock it all down a hair | 19:38 |
| r0kk3rz | pdanek: 'only a matter of time' not sure about that, even microsoft didnt really stand a chance | 19:38 |
| pdanek | Jolla had perhaps too big dream | 19:39 |
| pdanek | in harsh mobile world | 19:39 |
| Aard | the dream was fine, just several people should never have worked for jolla | 19:39 |
| pdanek | because Ubuntu Phone would also not survive without being backed by money from Canonical | 19:39 |
| pdanek | so if Ubuntu was in Jolla's shoes, it would be dead by now | 19:39 |
| pdanek | Aard: that I don't know, you know better in this :) | 19:40 |
| Aard | it obviously was risky, but some guys made sure to run it into the ground | 19:40 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah mismanagement is never good | 19:41 |
| pdanek | Aard: do you know btw what's up with the Russian development? Is now development restored back to the speed with team in Russia? | 19:42 |
| tigeli | pdanek: have you seen lots of commits from the russian team? | 19:43 |
| Aard | no idea, but even if they get additional people (which I doubt) they'd still have troubles due to losing a lot of the knowledge | 19:43 |
| pdanek | If things are bad, what's the point then keeping the project alive? | 19:44 |
| pdanek | For small company like Jolla, either they go forward quickly, or they should shut it down. | 19:44 |
| Aard | apart from brisbane and a few people in tampere basically all senior developers are gone. all senior qa and integration guys are gone | 19:44 |
| pdanek | Obviously is startup like Jolla doesn't develop quickly enough, they will just burn more millions every year and die eventually anyway | 19:44 |
| tango_ | it's a pity all these companies don't back the same frigging product | 19:45 |
| tango_ | firefox + canonica + jolla could push the same thing, at most with minor higher-level differences, and everyone would benefit | 19:45 |
| r0kk3rz | tango_: or at least try and maintain some level of compatibillity with apps or something | 19:45 |
| tango_ | there's no reason firefoxos couldn't just be an additional layer on top of mer | 19:46 |
| tango_ | instead of the B2G crapola | 19:46 |
| tigeli | tango_: I don't see canonical working together with anyone :D | 19:46 |
| Aard | tango_: at the beginning there was a political decision by canonical not to cooperate with jolla. we'd have loved to work with them. | 19:46 |
| tango_ | Aard: I'm not saying it's jolla's fault | 19:46 |
| Aard | they changed their opinion something like 2 years into the project, when it was clear that ubuntu touch isn't really working out, and ended up adopting some of our middleware | 19:47 |
| tango_ | no shit | 19:47 |
| tango_ | somebody needs to go there and whoop somebody with the Big Foam Cluebat, repeatedly, while saying "we told you so, we told you so" | 19:47 |
| tango_ | but yeah, canonical is pretty good at NIH syndrome | 19:48 |
| pdanek | tango_: I agree, just look at Canonical developing Mir when everyone else was going for Wayland :) | 19:48 |
| Aard | I had the first contact with canonical in I think summer or autumn 2012 | 19:48 |
| tango_ | I'm actually more surprised by mozilla though | 19:48 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah jolla, being the smallest of them all, has the most to gain from cooperating | 19:48 |
| Aard | r0kk3rz: well, oddly enough we were the ones delivering best at that point. might have been related to us hiring people who worked on mobile devices before | 19:48 |
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| pdanek | but the mobile market is though, looks at Windows Phone, which is now very mature platform with millions of great apps, yet their market share is down by half in most of countries since last year | 19:50 |
| pdanek | tough* | 19:50 |
| tigeli | there are no millions of great mobile apps :D | 19:51 |
| pdanek | :D | 19:51 |
| r0kk3rz | pdanek: the bigger the company the more market share they need | 19:51 |
| pdanek | thousands sorry | 19:51 |
| Aard | jolla could've been profitable in a few niche markets (like security), but for management and marketing that was only interesting to talk about, not actually put resources into | 19:51 |
| tango_ | pdanek: meh, I'm not a big fan of wayland, and I wouldn't be surprised if redhat had shown to be uncooperative just as much as canonical, which then led the latter to try the mir way | 19:51 |
| r0kk3rz | selling millions of devices in a quarter isnt bad | 19:51 |
| r0kk3rz | but it is if you're microsoft | 19:52 |
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| pdanek | Aard: Sailfish doesn't even have any role based access control, while Android and Ubuntu Touch both have it, so security was never really there much | 19:53 |
| pdanek | Aard: privacy maybe, but not security | 19:53 |
| tango_ | Aard: can I get a sticker from jolla for not asking the money back for the tablet? 8-D | 19:53 |
| pdanek | Aard: but maybe I'm wrong, why else would Turing phone choose Sailfish then if not for security | 19:53 |
| tango_ | pdanek: privacy not even, not with closed source parts of the software stack at least | 19:54 |
| Aard | pdanek: that's exactly what I'm saying, they liked to talk about it, but were not interested in actually doing anything. and some improvements would've been really trivial to make | 19:54 |
| tango_ | btw I despise the android security model | 19:54 |
| tango_ | it's too restrictive | 19:54 |
| pdanek | but TRI is very mysterious thing anyway | 19:54 |
| pdanek | :D | 19:54 |
| tango_ | not having the possibility for root access = fail | 19:54 |
| Aard | pdanek: the whole turing thing is a marketing stunt, currently the only bit of security you get on sailfish is that it's obscure enough that nobody bothers | 19:55 |
| tango_ | (yes I know that's up to the vendors. still.) | 19:55 |
| tango_ | static-analyze all the things! | 19:55 |
| pdanek | Aard: have you seen their new 12GB RAM and dual CPU phone? | 19:56 |
| tigeli | pdanek: nobody has | 19:56 |
| pdanek | Do you think that their employees are actually serious about it? | 19:56 |
| r0kk3rz | Aard: thats a shame. basic security stuff is something that anyone with half a clue expects these days | 19:56 |
| Aard | pdanek: I just got told about it, didn't even read the article myself | 19:56 |
| r0kk3rz | pdanek: employees? they have a mothballed factory in Salo, i didnt see any employees | 19:57 |
| pdanek | r0kk3rz: so current Turing phones which were shipped were all made in China? | 19:58 |
| r0kk3rz | its entirely possible | 19:58 |
| pdanek | r0kk3rz: what's the point of releasing their new phone hype for next year then? | 19:58 |
| pdanek | to make laugh of people? or? | 19:58 |
| r0kk3rz | hype | 19:58 |
| pdanek | what is hype good for? | 19:58 |
| pdanek | gain investors? | 19:58 |
| r0kk3rz | in the interview he gave he basically said it was all bullshit that he didnt expect anyone to actually believe | 19:59 |
| pdanek | oh really :D | 19:59 |
| pdanek | I didn't know he had interview | 19:59 |
| r0kk3rz | theres a link on tmo in the thread | 19:59 |
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| lpotter | if someone ported snappy to jolla, it would be a lot better security... as it uses apparmor and containers | 20:00 |
| lpotter | I would do it f I had the time | 20:00 |
| r0kk3rz | there was some chat about this in a recent meeting | 20:01 |
| r0kk3rz | i think someone was looking into selinux | 20:01 |
| pdanek | or grsecurity would be fine | 20:02 |
| pdanek | http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/the-most-powerful-smartphones-ever-conceived-are-coming-from-a-company-you-ve-never-heard-of-1328752 | 20:05 |
| lpotter | or snappy, which is multiplatform | 20:05 |
| pdanek | there are pieces of the interview | 20:05 |
| Aard | grsecurity doesn't really make sense for that kind of hardening, and especially not when you're tied to a vendor kernel | 20:06 |
| Aard | selinux we were looking into last year, so if they're smart they're building on our work from back then | 20:06 |
| lpotter | http://snapcraft.io/ | 20:07 |
| r0kk3rz | lpotter: got a preference between snappy and flatpak? | 20:07 |
| wmarone | aren't snaps currently canonical only? | 20:07 |
| lpotter | canonical is driving the development, but it is open source, and runs on other distros | 20:08 |
| wmarone | well sure, but the same is true for Mir | 20:08 |
| wmarone | also, CLA | 20:08 |
| lpotter | r0kk3rz: dont know much about flatpak, but I am biased towards snappy | 20:08 |
| r0kk3rz | lpotter: are you developing for canonical these days? | 20:09 |
| lpotter | yup | 20:09 |
| pdanek | is anyone here actually using Ubuntu Phone? or following their development? Do you think they will be way ahead of Sailfish in 2 years time? | 20:09 |
| phlixi | hardly imaginable | 20:10 |
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| r0kk3rz | lpotter: oh nice! i hope they treat you well | 20:10 |
| lpotter | pdanek: that depends of course. we are putting resources into snappy at the moment | 20:10 |
| pdanek | lpotter: who is "we"? :O | 20:11 |
| lpotter | r0kk3rz: yep. and they havent missed a pay yet! | 20:11 |
| lpotter | pdanek: canonical | 20:11 |
| r0kk3rz | lpotter: woo! | 20:11 |
| pdanek | lpotter so you're saying that ubuntu phone developers are not dedicated team? it's canonical using their resources to move into most important projects as they need? | 20:12 |
| Aard | lpotter: how's CI nowadays? | 20:12 |
| lpotter | pdanek: there still is a 'touch/unity8' team. its more about convergence devices | 20:13 |
| lpotter | Aard: slow. I miss jolla's streamlined | 20:13 |
| Aard | lpotter: still have the old team, we're now just making developers lifes in other companies better | 20:13 |
| lpotter | but ubuntu has more targets | 20:13 |
| pdanek | I don't believe convergence will even be mainstream | 20:14 |
| pdanek | people don't have monitors laying around anymore | 20:14 |
| lpotter | pdanek: they have tv's | 20:14 |
| pdanek | oh! I didn't realize that, I haven't had a TV myself for last 8 years :D | 20:14 |
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| lpotter | Aard: cool. good to hear | 20:16 |
| pdanek | Did anyone here use PalmOS before? Do you miss it? | 20:16 |
| Aard | pdanek: here! | 20:17 |
| Aard | it's rather sad that basically almost all calendar and addressbook implementation on mobile platforms nowadays still suck more than the palmos one 15 years ago | 20:18 |
| pp_ | I had a Palm III for a while | 20:18 |
| pp_ | Great tetris :D connectivity was so bad (was it irda) that I didn't find it useful | 20:19 |
| Aard | I had a palm Vx since I think 2001, and between 2004 and 2011 was using various palm smartphones | 20:19 |
| pdanek | Aard: until 2011? wow! | 20:21 |
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| lpotter | I interviewed one time to work on webos... does that count? | 20:21 |
| pdanek | nah, webos doesn't I guess :D | 20:22 |
| Aard | pdanek: I got a n900 as bonus for good work from nokia, until then I was using a palm centro. and several other palm phone models before that | 20:22 |
| pdanek | Aard: I liked the bigger Treo models | 20:23 |
| pdanek | and they were beautiful devices too IMO | 20:24 |
| Aard | I had a treo 680 before switching to the centro. centro is basically the 680 hardware in a different form factor, with some new software features | 20:24 |
| pdanek | Aard: Is Jolla still your primary phone? | 20:26 |
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| Aard | yes, but I never updated it after 1.1.7. I nowadays carry an additional android phone for some things, but I hate the UI, so it's not a full replacement | 20:27 |
| lpotter | Aard: why did you stop updating it? | 20:28 |
| Aard | I can't stand the new homescreen. it's almost as bad as androids | 20:28 |
| lpotter | ya, I miss the old one | 20:29 |
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| Aard | we should've offered both homescreens and let the user select, but there was no support for that internally | 20:31 |
| pdanek | Aard: if you had to pick one UI except Sailfish one, which one would it be? among mobile oses | 20:32 |
| Aard | pdanek: I'd get my centro out again | 20:32 |
| Aard | if you do a UI which requires buttons then at least do it properly and give me a complete keyboard | 20:33 |
| r0kk3rz | i got used to it, the new events view is great | 20:34 |
| pdanek | iOS doesn't have those buttons | 20:34 |
| r0kk3rz | the home screen is a little meh, but its not too bad | 20:35 |
| Aard | it still has that one big button | 20:35 |
| pp_ | N9 is beautiful too :-) | 20:35 |
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| r0kk3rz | Aard: the big button isnt even a button anymore | 20:35 |
| pp_ | shame all that polish was on dead-end tech, and owned by microsoft anyway | 20:35 |
| Aard | r0kk3rz: still requires me to move my fingers all over the place | 20:36 |
| Aard | for palmos I had buttons all over the place too -- but at least I could select them by keyboard | 20:36 |
| pdanek | Aard: I don't even get ahy Android in its 7th version already still didn't get rid of those buttons | 20:37 |
| pdanek | they got rid of the settings button long ago, I expected they will get rid of the rest too | 20:37 |
| pdanek | sure apps would need to be modified accordingly, but that would happen rather quickly | 20:38 |
| pdanek | could be that one version would support both | 20:38 |
| pdanek | and then another would get rid of buttons | 20:38 |
| Aard | well, they had that attempt at virtual buttons at some point, you could just use that for legacy apps, and new apps come without buttons | 20:39 |
| pdanek | I worry that one day Android will just die and get overtaken by something better just like Symbian and Palm did | 20:39 |
| pdanek | or, maybe not worry | 20:39 |
| pdanek | but I'm disappointed that companies which grow large enough lack the innovation | 20:39 |
| Aard | I'm not sure if that'll happen again, now the market is that much bigger, and the big players have absurd cash reserves | 20:40 |
| Nicd- | like Nokia had? :P | 20:40 |
| Aard | way more | 20:40 |
| Aard | and nokia still had a lot of money when they sold the phone business | 20:41 |
| pdanek | Aard: so what happened to the money? they still have it? | 20:42 |
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| Aard | nokia still exists, and is a profitable business | 20:42 |
| pdanek | because I keep seeing rumors about Nokia going to sell Android phones again | 20:42 |
| r0kk3rz | pdanek: they also get some billions from microsoft | 20:42 |
| Nicd- | pdanek: it's not just rumors | 20:42 |
| pdanek | Aard: Do they still make firewalls? Nokia firewalls was big thing back in the day, but I haven't seen any long time | 20:42 |
| Aard | they're just granting the right to use the nokia brand to some other company | 20:42 |
| Nicd- | afaik they're manufactured by Foxconn and designed by HMD Global | 20:43 |
| Aard | no idea if they still do that. they're now one of the biggest, if not the biggest vendor for mobile backend infrastructure | 20:43 |
| pdanek | Aard: oh ok, so it's won't be the good old Nokia quality phone made in Finland :) you will just pay for brand and the UI :) | 20:43 |
| pp_ | check point bought that business iirc | 20:43 |
| pdanek | I still think the Google Pixel phones will be best Android phone out there | 20:43 |
| Aard | also nokia still has the complete patent stash, that never went to microsoft. microsoft only got licenses | 20:44 |
| phlixi | and they will be sending info about you multiple times per second to google. great | 20:44 |
| pdanek | Aard: oh really | 20:44 |
| Aard | also it's unclear how much of harmattan rights went to microsoft, it's entirely possible that nokia still owns all the code from that as well | 20:44 |
| pdanek | So do you think Nokia Android phones will be big thing again? | 20:45 |
| pp_ | or MS required a "nuke source code from orbit" deal :-) | 20:45 |
| pp_ | polished linux at that time must have been a scary thing | 20:46 |
| pp_ | but it's dead-end code, mostly? | 20:46 |
| Aard | pdanek: I guess some people will buy it for the brand, but I doubt nokia itself will ever go back to making phones. too low profit margin nowadays, supplying most of the backend infrastructure makes them profit from growing mobile market as well | 20:47 |
| pdanek | right | 20:47 |
| Aard | pp_: very unlikely. for example, the microsoft exchange support in jolla1 was harmattan code, licensed from nokia | 20:47 |
| Aard | most of the code is nowadays useless (especially due to it not yet being qml), but a few things like the exchange stuff would still be usable | 20:48 |
| Aard | and a lot of the harmattan stuff under UI layer was opensourced, was what made jolla possible, and parts of it are now even used by ubuntu | 20:49 |
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| pp_ | video calls with skype wasn't allowed to see daylight after n900 (ok, underlying tech changed too) | 20:55 |
| pp_ | but that must have been embarassing | 20:55 |
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| pdanek1 | Although I'm concerned about Google privacy issue, I still use most of Google products as gmail, google calendar, google drive, google hangouts, photos etc.... for convenience and also I was gmail user since the invitation-only ages and I'm just too used to it | 20:57 |
| pdanek1 | so due to this fact, perhaps using Android makes most sense for me | 20:57 |
| pdanek1 | I'm even surprised that I'm still resist to use Chrome and keep to Firefox both on desktop and phone, because Chrome has better integration of google services | 20:58 |
| Aard | pp_: wasn't skype video working on n9? | 20:59 |
| pdanek1 | but similar as for gmail, I used firefox from its first version.... so I'm very nostalgic person in technology :) | 20:59 |
| Aard | chrome doesn't have proper emacs keybindings, and handles way less concurrent tabs than firefox | 21:01 |
| pp_ | nope, but that was after feb11 :-) | 21:01 |
| pp_ | I'm sure it was working | 21:01 |
| pp_ | windows phone had it working years later | 21:01 |
| Aard | no skype on jolla again was a political thing from skype management, their technicians would've loved to work with us | 21:07 |
| pp_ | yup, wp got skype in 2014 | 21:07 |
| pp_ | must have been some awful middleware to make it that difficult | 21:07 |
| phlixi | i bet the eula says "no third party clients allowed" and thus pretty easy to lock out jolla | 21:08 |
| pp_ | s/skype/video skype/ | 21:09 |
| Aard | for jolla it wouldn't have been that complicated with skype cooperation, basically a bunch of arm binaries from them, and updated telepathy handling on jolla side (which iirc existed already partially for desktop) | 21:09 |
| pp_ | and probably biggest reason that didn't happen was that it was a lot more complicated on windows :-) | 21:10 |
| kimmoli | i would like to get rid of skype (for business) but it is too deep integrated in 365 | 21:11 |
| Aard | I didn't really do much with skype after giving up the n9, and completely dropped it after they made pulseaudio mandatory on linux desktops. I gave my old accounts to my wife so she can use up skype credit there | 21:12 |
| pp_ | oh dear, I just remembered how awful lync (no SfB on mac, yet, well maybe a beta since I've been OoO for a while) is | 21:13 |
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