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| Guest63653 | reset ended up with sfos v 2.0.0.10, all apps were there, photos also, only contacts, messages, native accounts were missing.. android was untouched... all works so .. seems okay for me | 05:13 |
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| Pawky | "And then when the N9 died, #harmattan fell silent, luckily #jollamobile, the new chat in town was there to take over, and everybody chatted at their best.... Nowadays, its getting just as silent as the other... is this a sign?" :-/ | 11:42 |
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| Armadillo | as long as there are no new devices available, yes... | 11:46 |
| Tofe | Pawky: well, we have no idea is being worked on anyway, and most of the problem discussions end up with "it's already logged in TJC since a year", so, yes, it's silent. | 11:47 |
| Tofe | +what | 11:47 |
| pp_ | ¨´ | 11:48 |
| Pawky | isnt there anything to leak what so ever, in classic apple style? | 11:50 |
| Armadillo | the soon(TM) thing all of us heard at least a thousand times? | 11:52 |
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| Tofe | Most of the interesting news lately was on the community ports, afaik | 11:53 |
| Pawky | considering? | 11:54 |
| Tofe | Fairphone2, for instance | 11:54 |
| Pawky | But i cannot imagine, jolla will start to sell another company's hardware, right? | 11:55 |
| r0kk3rz | jolla wont sell any hardware anymore | 11:55 |
| Sailor | they sell only the OS | 11:56 |
| ggabriel | yup, jolla mobile is set to sell hw | 11:56 |
| Pawky | is that official? | 11:56 |
| ggabriel | they only need investors | 11:56 |
| ggabriel | Pawky: check the press releases.. | 11:56 |
| Pawky | well, i know about these... not that they stopped for sure though | 11:56 |
| Armadillo | well the splitted into a software and a hardware division | 11:56 |
| r0kk3rz | ggabriel: im sure their 'hw division' is quietly killed | 11:56 |
| Armadillo | but the hardware division seems to be wuite dead | 11:56 |
| Armadillo | *quite | 11:56 |
| Pawky | Then there is no jolla anymore... | 11:57 |
| ggabriel | r0kk3rz: well, it's all about money... give them a few millions and a hw division will appear | 11:57 |
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| ggabriel | Pawky: huh? who do you think has been making sfos all this time? | 11:57 |
| Pawky | it just another tizen, neomobile lalala os... | 11:57 |
| r0kk3rz | ggabriel: few millions? nah maybe few 100 millions | 11:57 |
| ggabriel | r0kk3rz: sure, depending how far you want to go competing | 11:58 |
| r0kk3rz | even then i expect not | 11:58 |
| r0kk3rz | os licensing is the game plan, so we will see how that works out | 11:58 |
| Pawky | To my knowledge no other phone maker has jumped the bandwagon to use Sailfish OS, though many has been "interested"... | 11:58 |
| Tofe | I don't understand why they don't push hard for an official association with Fairphone, to sell official SW support + dalvik. | 11:58 |
| ggabriel | Pawky: intex? | 11:59 |
| Pawky | r0kk3rz: I assume just as all the others.. | 11:59 |
| Pawky | They need hardware to push as well.. even though it might be OEM.. | 11:59 |
| r0kk3rz | Tofe: theres no need to 'push hard', both companies are interested in that idea | 11:59 |
| Pawky | does Intex also have the dalvik part? | 12:00 |
| ggabriel | Pawky: yup | 12:00 |
| ggabriel | to my knowledge, it's the first official licensee | 12:00 |
| r0kk3rz | Pawky: look up the intex aqua fish, proper sailfish phone out of the box | 12:00 |
| Pawky | how many sold? :-) | 12:00 |
| r0kk3rz | none yet | 12:00 |
| ggabriel | and the market target is very different to EU I'm afraid | 12:00 |
| ggabriel | EU has proven to not be interested enough, so it's only logical they'll go and find luck elsewhere | 12:01 |
| Tofe | r0kk3rz: "push hard" in the sense of "make it happen before the device reaches EOL" | 12:01 |
| Pawky | So, they go Nokia and want to get a big market shares in the developing countries etc? | 12:01 |
| ggabriel | having said that, there is hope with fairphone and maybe this other security phone | 12:01 |
| r0kk3rz | Tofe: the FP2 is intended to have a lifespan of 5 years, still a long way off EOL | 12:02 |
| Sailor | touringphone | 12:02 |
| ggabriel | Pawky: any better ideas? you have money you are interested to invest? :) | 12:02 |
| Sailor | but it's also a silent thing at the moment | 12:02 |
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| ggabriel | Sailor: thanks | 12:02 |
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| Pawky | Sailor: Yes I have ideas, I wouldnt invest in the current company though.. | 12:03 |
| Tofe | r0kk3rz: yes, but people and medias are talking about it these months; in 2017 it will just be something some geeks like us remember, nothing more | 12:03 |
| ggabriel | Pawky: then you get no phone :) | 12:03 |
| Sailor | Pawky: same here, that's why I also wanted my money for the tablet back ... If they would communicate more what they are doing. Or trying to achieve. They could have kept my money. | 12:03 |
| Pawky | I do bleive Jollas fan base is something to cherrish.. | 12:03 |
| r0kk3rz | Tofe: i expect we will see it in maybe 3-6 months, or not at all | 12:04 |
| Pawky | Sailor: very true indeed | 12:04 |
| ggabriel | Pawky: really? I think the fanbase is there because there are no other options out there | 12:04 |
| Pawky | I even thought about just bying another jolla phone for it... but then again.. its getting aged.. | 12:04 |
| ggabriel | but otoh, if we could have a lot of other options, the situation would be drastically different | 12:04 |
| Pawky | ggabriel: Thats not true.. | 12:04 |
| ggabriel | what would you buy? I'm very unhappy with ios/android | 12:05 |
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| r0kk3rz | id probably get an ubuntu phone | 12:05 |
| Pawky | ggabriel: Well.. of course there isnt much to buy... but there are alternatives.. | 12:05 |
| ggabriel | r0kk3rz: ok, so suppose there is ubuntu, what else is out there? | 12:05 |
| eugenio | windows phone | 12:05 |
| ggabriel | Pawky: I'm waiting to hear those alternatives | 12:05 |
| eugenio | :) | 12:06 |
| ggabriel | eugenio: :) | 12:06 |
| r0kk3rz | ggabriel: how many alternatives do you need? | 12:06 |
| ggabriel | never tried it, so can't say much, but doesn't come with a terminal :P | 12:06 |
| Pawky | in the end, there is always an option to create ones own android derivative... done right | 12:06 |
| ggabriel | r0kk3rz: to have a healthier/more standards driven market? suppose 10 options? | 12:06 |
| ggabriel | or maybe 20? | 12:06 |
| the_mgt | you do not even have 20 options on desktop market... | 12:07 |
| ggabriel | more or less evenly distributed too, not 99% market to 2 leaders and 18 others trying to survive | 12:07 |
| r0kk3rz | ggabriel: then you also have plasma mobile, luneos, nemomobile | 12:07 |
| Pawky | well.. If i am not wrong, one could get Salfish running on other hardware, right? | 12:07 |
| r0kk3rz | ggabriel: asteroidos if you include smartwatches | 12:07 |
| ggabriel | the_mgt: yeah, desktop is not very healthy either | 12:07 |
| Pawky | There are a few.. but as I wrote, not something to swap ones Jolla for.. | 12:08 |
| the_mgt | ggabriel: I mean you have like aleph0 different linux distros, but that does not imply quality | 12:08 |
| Pawky | Jolla really has to get a grip around their fan base, before its to late. | 12:08 |
| r0kk3rz | Pawky: what fan base? its gone already | 12:08 |
| ggabriel | the_mgt: I get your point, however, the desktop market is better at following certain standards than the embedded device market | 12:09 |
| Pawky | r0kk3rz: No, i do not believe so | 12:09 |
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| Sailor | https://www.facebook.com/turingroboticindustries/?fref=ts | 12:09 |
| ggabriel | tbh, if my jolla breaks, I'd buy another jolla :P | 12:09 |
| Sailor | seems to be delayed | 12:09 |
| ggabriel | but no other phone has hw kbd and my jolla does, so that's a massive reason to stay with it as I use it extensively | 12:10 |
| r0kk3rz | Sailor: no really, wow such surprise :P | 12:10 |
| Sailor | :D | 12:10 |
| Sailor | *wait for the announcement in April* | 12:10 |
| the_mgt | ggabriel: hm, maybe. I think the real problem is drivers/kernel modules. for every OS. seems to be still rather cumbersome to write some, if there were more modules for the main linux kernel, adopting distros for phones would follow | 12:10 |
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| Pawky | hmm... that Intex Aqua Fish looks interesting :-D | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | it's a lovely device | 12:11 |
| Pawky | but, hey... LOOK... I got the chat chatting again :-D | 12:11 |
| ggabriel | the_mgt: true, but it gets worse... if you want to write a brand new OS, some things should follow certain standards. I heard ACPI is a mess on desktop and so on. open drivers help porting | 12:11 |
| Pawky | so, we fans are here... you see :-) | 12:11 |
| r0kk3rz | Pawky: yep all 5 of us | 12:11 |
| Pawky | LOL | 12:11 |
| ggabriel | Pawky: well, I'm just a customer really ;) I like sfos | 12:11 |
| the_mgt | ggabriel: I guess most OS/distros are good at hiding the crappiness of hardware. windows really shines there, that is why they took over | 12:12 |
| Sailor | I really like the OS and I would support Jolla. If they would talk to us ... | 12:12 |
| Pawky | so.. whatever open source OS ever trying to win the phone market, will die due to proprietary issues?... :-( | 12:13 |
| ggabriel | Pawky: hopefully not thanks to libhybris | 12:13 |
| Pawky | how mature is libhybris? | 12:14 |
| ggabriel | the jolla phone and the tablet run thanks to it. is that mature enough? | 12:15 |
| ggabriel | more than gmail, at any rate | 12:15 |
| ggabriel | but then gmail is alpha :P | 12:15 |
| Pawky | yes, i presume it is.. | 12:16 |
| Pawky | but.. for chirst sake, its just for jolla to take intex phones, rebrand them Jolla and start selling in Europe with sailfish os.. :-) | 12:16 |
| Armadillo | in the comments on facebook Touringphone btw. mentioned May as a possible release date | 12:17 |
| ggabriel | Pawky: you are very enthusiastic but you don't seem to appreciate how complex selling a phone is | 12:17 |
| ggabriel | jolla shared a lot of that complexity via PR and blog, a lot more than any other competitor has done to date, so re-reading those should give you some clue | 12:18 |
| Pawky | well... it all depends | 12:18 |
| LarstiQ | Pawky: Jolla might not have the rights to do that | 12:18 |
| Pawky | LarstiQ: Thats's the deal they should sign | 12:19 |
| Pawky | or could sign.. would be a better statement | 12:19 |
| ggabriel | I doubt jolla had the upper hand, this being their first licensee | 12:19 |
| ggabriel | but even if they had the right, they'd need to reapply for a number of things | 12:20 |
| Pawky | ggabriel: I believe I have read most of them. Well.. I presume Intex doesnt have the Jolla user base yet, and Jolla could sell to them a branded phone | 12:20 |
| ggabriel | even thinking about it is a faff | 12:20 |
| Pawky | everybody happy | 12:20 |
| Pawky | reapply? | 12:21 |
| ggabriel | so, they have to reapply for certification | 12:21 |
| ggabriel | india != EU | 12:21 |
| Pawky | thats true.. | 12:21 |
| ggabriel | very different indeed | 12:21 |
| ggabriel | there are loads of indians in the UK though, I'm sure I'll see an intex phone ;) | 12:21 |
| Pawky | but it depends upon what hardware the phones use | 12:21 |
| ggabriel | I did see a jolla phone purchased in india last year | 12:21 |
| ggabriel | erm... not really... you have to reapply anyway | 12:22 |
| Pawky | transmission license? | 12:22 |
| ggabriel | a lot of android phones out there are a copy of the nexus with different casing/etc | 12:22 |
| Pawky | exactly | 12:22 |
| ggabriel | Pawky: change the bluetooth stack, you have to reapply; it isn't even hw related | 12:23 |
| ggabriel | everybody needs to reapply | 12:23 |
| Pawky | true.. | 12:23 |
| ggabriel | how will they make money otherwise? ;) | 12:23 |
| Pawky | sucks.. all those licenses.. it will kill any invention in the end | 12:23 |
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| JollaSailor_Simo | hi guys | 13:26 |
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| stephg | PSA SFOS FOSS meeting about to start in #mer-meeting | 14:26 |
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| Yaniel | lol quasarmx crashes trying to scan my sdcard | 14:59 |
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| coderus | Yaniel: which build? | 15:51 |
| Yaniel | r1267 | 15:51 |
| Yaniel | after like 20 retries it seems to have succeeded | 15:52 |
| Yaniel | but the total songs count is 35 less than mpd reports on my desktop (and the music dirs are synced with syncthing) | 15:53 |
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| coderus | Yaniel: 1281 is latest for people who bought pro :P | 16:00 |
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| Yaniel | huh, it claims no newer version available | 16:06 |
| Yaniel | looks like I'll have to reinstall it manually | 16:06 |
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| Yaniel | actually there is a r1300 beta | 16:08 |
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| coderus | oh true, 2.1 is released with 1300 build number :) | 16:12 |
| Yaniel | nope, no stable build since 1267 | 16:12 |
| coderus | all builds are stable for me :D | 16:13 |
| Yaniel | well stable as in non-beta | 16:13 |
| coderus | :P | 16:13 |
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| friese | Good evening dirkvl | 18:11 |
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| dirkvl | helloooo | 18:12 |
| friese | whats up? | 18:12 |
| dirkvl | waiting untill it is no longer possible to postpone doing administration | 18:13 |
| dirkvl | you? :p | 18:13 |
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| friese | waiting for news about my jolla tablet, care said i should get a shipping notification "this week"... | 18:14 |
| narchie | so | 18:14 |
| narchie | 4 weeks gone | 18:14 |
| narchie | where is tablet money? | 18:14 |
| narchie | although | 18:14 |
| narchie | I shouldn't be surprised | 18:14 |
| narchie | or expecting anything at this point | 18:14 |
| friese | also waiting for my fairphone, that should be coming next month... | 18:14 |
| Aciid | not even the first half received :< | 18:15 |
| Aciid | are these guys using pro-countor :DDD | 18:15 |
| narchie | perhaps Klarna bill | 18:15 |
| narchie | would be suitable | 18:15 |
| narchie | 2,5eur/month | 18:15 |
| Aciid | joo tästeteepäi kaikki laskul | 18:16 |
| Aciid | sit lykätää nii pitkää kunnes tulee rojut | 18:16 |
| Aciid | vittu saatana mitä paskaa iha ku ois kehitysmaa | 18:16 |
| Aciid | suomi | 18:16 |
| narchie | i apologize | 18:16 |
| Aciid | pistäkee ne helvetin embedded devit pihalle jos ne o nii kalliita kai sitä intiasta sais servicenä jo | 18:16 |
| Aciid | tai tyylii fiverrista? | 18:16 |
| Stskeeps | it takes a while to move the refund in coins to everybody | 18:16 |
| narchie | 1. sign in to paypal | 18:17 |
| narchie | 2. send money | 18:17 |
| narchie | though I suspect the flow is | 18:18 |
| narchie | 1. sit on hermannmiller for 4 weeks | 18:18 |
| Aciid | finitestatemachine | 18:18 |
| narchie | 2. sign in to paypal | 18:18 |
| narchie | 3. sit on hermannmiller | 18:18 |
| Aciid | sit on kamppi startbucks | 18:18 |
| narchie | 4. pay sometime | 18:18 |
| Aciid | 2 ) go to kamppi metroasema, buy some blow | 18:18 |
| Aciid | 3 ) do some blow on kickstarter money @ kamppi stadin snadit | 18:18 |
| Aciid | 4 ) repeat | 18:19 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +b *!~aciid@unaffiliated/aciid | 18:19 | |
| *** Aciid was kicked by ChanServ (User is banned from this channel) | 18:19 | |
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| OS-19023 | anyway you put it, im still expecting a full refund | 18:20 |
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| friese | well, so far for free opinion i guess ;) | 18:20 |
| Stskeeps | nah, nothing to do with free opinion, they've been warned before; naturally people should get their refunds | 18:21 |
| friese | though i guess you should say that the whole "sign in to paypal, send money" has to be repeated a few thousand times... | 18:22 |
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| friese | also probably better i haven't gotten that far to learning finish yet | 18:22 |
| hello123 | nice | 18:22 |
| OS-19023 | you should, theres more to startupscene in finnish dialect that you expect | 18:22 |
| Stskeeps | not to mention the "transfer money to paypal to be sent off in piles" | 18:22 |
| OS-19023 | Stskeeps ok ill stop meme'ing, sorry for what preceeded earlier | 18:23 |
| Stskeeps | w/o paypal becoming their usual monster | 18:23 |
| friese | and in between all that money sending don't forget to send the remaining tablets, been waiting some time for that :) | 18:23 |
| OS-19023 | ive just been hurt so badly like in a bad relationship, you think you were the first ones to take her virginity. you offer the littlefinger it takes your whole arm | 18:24 |
| Stskeeps | OS-19023: er.. okay then | 18:24 |
| * Stskeeps offers OS-19023 a hug? | 18:24 | |
| OS-19023 | finnish proverb | 18:24 |
| * OS-19023 accepts | 18:24 | |
| Stskeeps | that said, if jolla had taken all the refunds and invested them into ether about the time refund programme was planned, people would have been a lot happier for the refunds | 18:25 |
| friese | wow, finish people and hugging? | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not finnish | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | i can stand close to people at bus stops | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:25 |
| OS-19023 | how about those unbans now, ill promise to shut it | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | OS-19023: if you're one of the people that got banned, you're now also ban evading on top of it, which isn't exactly a sign of good character | 18:26 |
| OS-19023 | cough this is my offensive security handle, i just came here to say im sorry . | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | offensive security handle? | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | now i'm curious | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:26 |
| OS-19023 | https://www.offensive-security.com/ | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | okay then, which one were you? | 18:27 |
| OS-19023 | Aciid | 18:27 |
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| OS-19023 | wont happen again ;_; sorry sempai | 18:27 |
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| friese | humm, looking at that website "i know some of these words" :) | 18:27 |
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| Stskeeps | unbanned, but seriously guys, people are working really hard to get the (partial) refunds to you and the tablets | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | it's a unforgiving job | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | we've all been working quite hard to make the tablets and fought really hard to get things working, including going several months without salary; so it's really best effort at this point | 18:28 |
| Aciid | understandably a huge effort. but yes theres money at stake also at the lower levels when you fund something, sometimes it feels big when you need that few extra euros yourself when you are promised to get it. | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 18:29 |
| Aciid | so for the sake of it lets all hang on and try to be excellent to each other from now on | 18:29 |
| Aciid | surely this all ends somehow sometime | 18:29 |
| Aciid | and im not even comparing irc to something like kickstarter comment section which is utterly cancerous | 18:30 |
| Aciid | this is all just thoughtflow compared to that | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | did you ever see youtube comments or what newspapers have in their online comment sections? | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | irc is damn civilized compared | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:30 |
| Aciid | I try to ignore those | 18:30 |
| friese | after all, i think it's incredible how long jolla has managed to stay floating, tbh i thought that ship would sink even before the first jolla phone was delivered, guess they proved me wrong there ;) | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | friese: i'm still utterly amazed we managed to re-do most of our ui infrastructure, change hw and still ship | 18:31 |
| Stskeeps | in 6 months | 18:31 |
| Stskeeps | it was really close | 18:31 |
| Aciid | im quite sure theres investors keeping it from going bankrupt. what what you value something that is not succesfull 3 years later? its still a startup | 18:31 |
| Aciid | weve all trusted a whole lot on something we belieed that could have become something that beats all odds | 18:32 |
| friese | yeah, must've been a hell of an adventure, maybe even worth a documentary someday, "the little guys that stood up to the big guys" kinda | 18:32 |
| Stskeeps | friese: well, maybe RIOT-E 2.0 .. | 18:32 |
| Aciid | riot-on | 18:32 |
| Stskeeps | er, ye | 18:32 |
| Aciid | ! | 18:32 |
| Stskeeps | sorry :) | 18:32 |
| Aciid | didnt mean to correct you, was more like a verb | 18:32 |
| Aciid | but speaking truthfuly eversince marc left i've had this feeling that things are not going to get any better. feels like meego all over again | 18:33 |
| friese | yeah, marc always was the face of the whole operation to me, not to diminish the efforts of the whole team ofc. | 18:36 |
| friese | anyways, what happend to marc? haven't heard about him for a while | 18:37 |
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| Stskeeps | friese: now ceo of asmo solutions i think | 18:46 |
| friese | ah right, i remember, that "dont burn my house down"-charger, right? | 18:46 |
| Stskeeps | something like that | 18:48 |
| Stskeeps | Aciid: well, admittedly it was the biggest 'oh shit' moment so far; but well, company's alive | 18:49 |
| Stskeeps | friese: there's also a very big difference between a face in public and the factual people pushing the company forward.. jolla was more of a startup with many startups in each, people that pioneered their areas inside jolla | 18:51 |
| Stskeeps | attracted talent, grew the capabilities, etc | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | in each=in it | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | friese: if you lose the spokesman, the government doesn't fall apart | 18:52 |
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| friese | yeah, thats true, the government would still have capable people pushing forward just like jolla, but thats kinda like an... ant colony or someting like that? you don't see the accomplishments of each ant but rather the whole pile mushed together | 18:54 |
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| Stskeeps | nod | 18:55 |
| friese | okay, i'm really bad at comparisons ;) | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | and sometimes the best thing a founder or ceo or whichever is just not stand in the way | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | +can do | 18:55 |
| friese | yeah, though for stuff like marketing & sales it's nice to have a popular spokesperson and not a hundred different voices all shouting in different directions | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | it'd be utterly terrifying if a whole company idolized one particular person and would fall apart without that person | 18:57 |
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| friese | thats the issue i hear most often about jolla, bad information politics, though maybe thats just cause it's the best for the company itself to not promise to much stuff it can't hold in the end so instead the just fall silent since at a startup like jolla i guess very few things are 100% definite | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | the initial hype about jolla was just crazy, too, though | 18:58 |
| nh1402 | Stkeeps: I wonder how you feel about Apple then | 18:58 |
| friese | well, another person has to step up, like at appl | 18:59 |
| friese | also, i should type faster ;) | 18:59 |
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| nh1402 | haven't met an Apple employee before so can't say that they idolise one person, but being Apple they might do. | 19:00 |
| friese | well, not so much about the employees (from what i heard some even feared jobs), it's more the public perception | 19:00 |
| nh1402 | if they can release a laptop with one port, and a phone without a headphone port then it certainly sounds like they do | 19:00 |
| nh1402 | I say one port, because you can't plug a usb hub into an audio jack | 19:01 |
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| r0kk3rz | Stskeeps: marc has that rockstar personality though, he can just say stuff and people will instantly believe it which is a powerful kind of person to have on your side | 19:55 |
| Stskeeps | sure | 19:55 |
| r0kk3rz | im sure Antti is a fine CEO dude, but he pales in comparison speaking at SLUSH | 19:56 |
| Stskeeps | well, finnish people and public speaking.. :) | 19:56 |
| r0kk3rz | for sure there is a cultural aspect there as well | 19:56 |
| Stskeeps | for whatever i do next i should get john mcafee | 19:56 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:56 |
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| r0kk3rz | oh yeah | 20:02 |
| r0kk3rz | that would be amazing | 20:02 |
| nh1402 | r0kk3rz: speaking of Rockstar apparently they're terrible employers | 20:05 |
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| r0kk3rz | nh1402: the game studio? or general rockstar people? | 20:10 |
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| nh1402 | r0kk3rz: the game studio | 20:48 |
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| Nokius | r0kk3rz: I saw him life and he is a great speaker | 21:12 |
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| r0kk3rz | Nokius: who antti? | 21:30 |
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| Nokius | r0kk3rz: yes | 21:31 |
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| Nokius | sorry it's live and life | 21:31 |
| r0kk3rz | heh yeah that can be a tricky one | 21:33 |
| r0kk3rz | ive only seen the SLUSH video for antti, so maybe im being too harsh on him | 21:33 |
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