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| coderus | why the hell you want to remount things in aliendalvik | 05:17 |
|---|---|---|
| coderus | i said you tons of tiles it not working in alien not because of mounting | 05:17 |
| coderus | you can copy all files without remounting | 05:17 |
| coderus | under root | 05:17 |
| coderus | but it doesnt work, xposed hook doesnt work | 05:17 |
| coderus | times* | 05:18 |
| coderus | next time i will just ignore | 05:19 |
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| Kabouik_ | Hi all. I'm wondering if there are any plans to update the version of Alien Dalvik at some point? The number of Android applications that require >4.3 is growing every day and there are now a number of applications that I cannot use on the Jolla, unfortunately. Is it set in stone or will it be updated? | 12:32 |
| arnej | That would be very interesting to know. Maybe you can check together.jolla.com if there is already a discussion about that and post a new one if there isn't | 12:35 |
| arnej | Kabouik_: ^ | 12:35 |
| Kabouik_ | https://together.jolla.com/question/107009/android-version-in-sailfish-2/ I've found this arnej, but the answers are confusing: the roadmap says so, but just for the tablet, and not "released" yet" | 12:35 |
| Kabouik_ | And actually the roadmap does not say that it is tablet-specific, but apparently it is | 12:36 |
| ggabriel | uhm... roadmap may be a bit out of date | 12:36 |
| Stskeeps | problem is that it's not trivial to upgrade 4.1.2 based alien dalvik to 4.4 on jolla1 | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | without data loss | 12:37 |
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| Kabouik_ | What kind of data loss do you mean? Android apps data? I wouldn't mind, if I could run the applications I'd like after the upgrade | 12:39 |
| arnej | I could live with data loss when it's communicated and I get new Android apps :) | 12:39 |
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| * ggabriel envisions the rage comments if jolla ever allows for data loss :P | 12:40 | |
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| entil | I'm sure whatsapp will resync its chats anyway | 12:42 |
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| ggabriel | "but I have to log in again??? why, jolla, why?" | 12:43 |
| ggabriel | etc etc | 12:43 |
| entil | most apps are probably cloud-backed anyway | 12:44 |
| Kabouik_ | It's just postponing the issue anyway. Apparently, 4.3/4.4 has involved a lot of features that more and more apps will require, so as time passes, we'll have to deal with data loss OR increasing incompatibility. Data loss won't worsen over time, incompatibility will, so I'd rather go for data loss from now on if I'm prepared. | 12:44 |
| Kabouik_ | -from now on +as soon as possible, sorry for my English | 12:45 |
| phlixi_o | what apps do actually do not work because of the version, and not because of for example missing google services etc, are you sure its about the version? because in the end there are tons of old androids out here that dont get an update, those apps would not work there either... | 12:45 |
| ggabriel | I think the general android approach is "buy a new phone" | 12:45 |
| entil | for only 699e it's a steal! | 12:45 |
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| Kabouik_ | I'm sure it's >4.3 for the application in particular yes phlixi_o. Here it's Number26 bank application, but there are others that I've encountered in the past days | 12:45 |
| coderus | entil: most of peoples not using google services, so no backups in clouds | 12:45 |
| phlixi_o | ...and most vendors care about wether they abandon 50% potential userbase or not (ofc this is other for games for example, where the old phones woulnd not have enough crunching power anyways... | 12:46 |
| phlixi_o | and what makes you so sure about that? have you tried those apps on regular andoird phones? | 12:46 |
| entil | coderus: there are other clouds out there ;) but yeah, it can be an issue for a lot of people | 12:47 |
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| coderus | entil: most of apps are using google cluod backups | 12:47 |
| Kabouik_ | Yes phlixi_o. And it's written as a requirement for the application. The Android phone I've tried is not 4.3 and could not run it either. Only way I could run it is using Gentmotion emulator on my laptop (the app is mandatory to create an account in this bank). | 12:48 |
| Kabouik_ | Plus I have the Google services on my Jolla, and the Play store states that my device is not compatible. | 12:48 |
| entil | I installed google play, and uninstalled, and now it keeps popping back in, like some bs app seems to install it for me | 12:49 |
| phlixi_o | well, than this particular app seems to actually suck? what are those "more and more" other apps? | 12:49 |
| coderus | entil: you can't just uninstall system app, even if aliendalvik thinks so | 12:49 |
| entil | oh | 12:49 |
| Kabouik_ | Well you can't decide that an app sucks just because it requires the last version of Android. It might be true, don't get me wrong, but Android is offering features for them to be used by devs. Apparently, they require them for N26 app, or don't have enough ressources to ensure retrocompatibility. | 12:50 |
| Kabouik_ | Just sticking to old version just because good apps should work with them is fallacious | 12:51 |
| entil | you can always start your own native sailfish open source project | 12:51 |
| Kabouik_ | Also, I don't know if this is correct, but CLR64 states in the TJC URL above " Android 4.4.4 would be a major step and a really cool update. Because all of the closed source updates of google after 4.4 it's likely that most apps will be compatible to 4.3/4.4 for a very long time." | 12:53 |
| Kabouik_ | Unfortunately I'm no dev entil, and we're talking about a bank application, I doubt they'll provide any support for developping your own open source alternative | 12:54 |
| entil | Kabouik_: fwiw I was playing the role of freetard, of course a minority phone has to support majority applications | 12:54 |
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| Kabouik_ | And so, now that there is an official statement that Fairphone 2 will have Sailfish, shall we expect it to run with the 4.1.2 Dalvik of Jolla, or 4.4.4 of Jolla tablet? | 14:18 |
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| Kabouik_ | This might be a selling point for the FP2 for me (which shows that I care more about upgrade than data loss for Android apps!) | 14:19 |
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| r0kk3rz | Kabouik_: at least 4.4.4 for FP2 i would expect | 14:25 |
| r0kk3rz | theres zero reason for it to be 4.1.2 like jphone | 14:25 |
| r0kk3rz | and i expect 'dataloss' for jphone upgrade is more than just stuff in dalvik, i would expect the whole phone to need a new image | 14:26 |
| Kabouik_ | Yeah but the reasons for keeping 4.1.2 for the Jolla while 4.4.4 is available for the tablet can be considered obscured too (though I understand that data loss may be an issue for some, although warning them would help a lot)... So never know! | 14:27 |
| r0kk3rz | well, its hooked into the bsp from the manufacturer afaik, so upgrading it is a lot of work | 14:29 |
| r0kk3rz | i would hope that effort would go into things like qt5.6 rather than upgraded dalvik for an aging device | 14:30 |
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| Raim | Kabouik_: official statement? where can I read that? | 15:02 |
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| Kabouik_ | It's on their Twitter account Raim. Unfortunately this is the place for official statements nowadays. :] | 15:03 |
| Kabouik_ | Which means there's not much to read | 15:03 |
| Raim | Kabouik_: fair enough. all I saw was only about the community port (which means, no Android support) | 15:03 |
| Kabouik_ | Give me a minute, I'll try to find the exact twitter discussion | 15:04 |
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| r0kk3rz | Raim: afaik its still a 'maybe' but guys on the FP forums area saying 'April' | 15:05 |
| Kabouik_ | https://twitter.com/Fairphone/status/711855375159595009 here it is Raim | 15:05 |
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| Kabouik_ | April for a release, or for the official deal r0kk3rz? | 15:06 |
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| r0kk3rz | Kabouik_: release i think | 15:07 |
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| Kabouik_ | Would be nice, I'd probably go for a Fairphone with SF if it was fully supported. I need a refresh of my Jolla (which, to be honest, totally contrasts with the Fairphone rationale, I have to admit it) | 15:08 |
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| Raim | hm, I will not put much hope into such a "partnership" until I see it actually exists :-) | 15:11 |
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| Raim | the previous position with "we support the community to do it" was also called a "partnership" | 15:12 |
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| r0kk3rz | yeah if you really really want dalvik its probably best to wait | 15:13 |
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| r0kk3rz | the FP2s at MWC had dalvik on them though | 15:13 |
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| Kabouik_ | Fairphone also reported on Twitter that there is already a community port, and that the "deal" was something more | 15:13 |
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| Kabouik_ | They implied it by saying "There are already people running SF here at Fairphone, so it [the official port] should not take long", something like that | 15:14 |
| phlixi_o | great to read this in the thread: https://twitter.com/Fairphone/status/711867886105661441 | 15:14 |
| Kabouik_ | Well, this, exactly. :D | 15:14 |
| phlixi_o | i wonder whether those people at FP are running SFOS with or without android support | 15:15 |
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| phlixi_o | do i really have to search for the twitter credentials of an account i made years ago and never use to ask them? | 15:16 |
| phlixi_o | :D | 15:16 |
| helpme654645 | Hey I need some jolla help, I used an apk downloader to get an app I want on my jolla phone in apk form -- how do I install it? | 15:16 |
| phlixi_o | i usually download them in browser, then i have them in downloads (transfers in settings or similar, ask if you need more precise) then you can click on it and it will install | 15:17 |
| phlixi_o | helpme654645 maybe you can just tap on them in filebrowser | 15:18 |
| phlixi_o | you probably have to allow this in settings as well, some kind of install from untrusted sources checkbox | 15:18 |
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| helpme654645 | tried installing but the app doesn't seem to work on sailfish | 15:19 |
| r0kk3rz | helpme654645: then maybe it needs something the phone doesnt have | 15:21 |
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| r0kk3rz | like, newer android, or play services | 15:21 |
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| helpme654645 | OH YES | 15:22 |
| helpme654645 | I RETRIED AND IT WORKED :D | 15:22 |
| helpme654645 | one more question: how often are you guys charging your jolla phones? | 15:23 |
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| Kabouik_ | phlixi_o probably! Last time I used (and created, actually) a Twitter account was to ask questions to Jolla before the release of the phone. Your turn with Fairphone. :] | 15:28 |
| phlixi_o | same for me :-) | 15:28 |
| phlixi_o | https://twitter.com/phlixi | 15:28 |
| phlixi_o | :D | 15:28 |
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| phlixi_o | damnit, spelling error | 15:32 |
| Lieke | shame on you | 15:33 |
| Kabouik_ | If they manage to answer, I'll take the next question (well, and is it 4.4.4 like on tablet? :>)! | 15:33 |
| phlixi_o | :-) | 15:34 |
| Kabouik_ | Or they will answer "No." | 15:34 |
| phlixi_o | :-( | 15:34 |
| phlixi_o | i wonder if the bezel might be a problem | 15:34 |
| Kabouik_ | Yeah, I wondered that too. Just stopped wondering when I realized I'd wonder until the point I could get my hands on a FP2. | 15:35 |
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| Kabouik_ | Bezel-speaking, nothing will ever beat the N9, I'm afraid. :( That's too bad: we all know the design is brilliant for gestures, but no manufacturer use it (except Yotaphone, kind off) | 15:36 |
| phlixi_o | i remember that the n9 was awesome with swyping and such, but awefull as soon as you put on the "bumper" which made swypes nearly impossible (for me) | 15:36 |
| phlixi_o | ... | 15:36 |
| phlixi_o | at least "swype from outside the screen" are less important on sfos than they where on n9 | 15:37 |
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| r0kk3rz | the bezel is fine | 15:38 |
| Kabouik_ | Yep, that's right, though it was a nice and easy feature to have these two different gestures with different functions, I don't remember mixing them or using one instead of the other by mistake. | 15:38 |
| Kabouik_ | But SF gestures are good enough | 15:38 |
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| phlixi_o | i think its pretty consistent to have gestures that start outside the screen which do something on os level (eg go to homescreen) and have gestures that start inside the screen that do something inside the app | 15:51 |
| phlixi_o | ...with the removal of coveractions this got a bit mixed up | 15:52 |
| phlixi_o | r0kk3rz did you use sfos on fp2 already? | 15:52 |
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| r0kk3rz | phlixi_o: yup | 15:55 |
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| r0kk3rz | well briefly anyway | 15:55 |
| phlixi_o | and did you ever used an n9 with the stadard bumper on it? | 15:55 |
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| r0kk3rz | nope | 15:57 |
| r0kk3rz | never owned one | 15:57 |
| phlixi_o | i wonder whether you would say the same about that... | 15:57 |
| Kabouik_ | I was not much annoyed by the bumber case with the N9 for swypes from edge of the screen, but I guess it depends on the way we did the gestures | 15:58 |
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| Kabouik_ | I rapidly removed the bumper though, after a few months, as dust accumulated and the phone was actually damaged quicker than without it. And the N9 touch was so nice! | 15:59 |
| r0kk3rz | the fp2 is a chunky phone though, it compromises a fair bit for repairability | 15:59 |
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| phlixi_o | i fear that other who dont had problems with the n9 bumper also have no problem with fp2, thus, r0kk3rz also might not have problems with the n9 bumper... | 16:27 |
| phlixi_o | ...but i had problems with the n9 bumper, and fear that therefore i will have problems with the fp2 bumper style border around the display | 16:27 |
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| phlixi_o | ...in fact its a design decision the made to have a case which acts like a bumper | 16:28 |
| r0kk3rz | the FP2 != n9 | 16:28 |
| r0kk3rz | the fp2 is a lot bigger for starters | 16:28 |
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| r0kk3rz | but it is nice to try before you buy for some things | 16:29 |
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| r0kk3rz | if you really dont like the bumper, you might be able to make a dirk style rear case instead https://twitter.com/dirkvanleersum/status/687970714973040641 | 16:34 |
| phlixi_o | i am only talking about the border which seems to me exactly like n9 with bumer (which was horrible for me) | 16:35 |
| phlixi_o | dirkvl for the rescue... | 16:35 |
| phlixi_o | ...nice :-) | 16:35 |
| dirkvl | am i needed? | 16:36 |
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| dirkvl | there is also a 1piece fp2 casing, but havent tested it myself yet :p | 16:37 |
| kimmoli | i found one github repo with stl for fp2 case | 16:37 |
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| kimmoli | https://github.com/keesj/fp2_extension_sample | 16:40 |
| phlixi_o | Kabouik: https://twitter.com/Fairphone/status/713041402377158656 | 16:41 |
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| phlixi_o | dirkvl no, you are not needed :-) you already helped | 16:42 |
| HtheB | guys, any idea when will we see a new fw update? | 16:42 |
| phlixi_o | fw update as in firmware update as in sailfish os update? | 16:42 |
| HtheB | sailfish os update | 16:42 |
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| eugenio | soon | 16:42 |
| eugenio | :) | 16:42 |
| phlixi_o | usually a week or two after the early release... well this time the eraly release is two months old :( | 16:43 |
| HtheB | eugenio: I was wondering when SD card support for Android will arrive | 16:43 |
| HtheB | it was first in the release notes for 2.0.1.7 | 16:43 |
| HtheB | but then it was revoked | 16:43 |
| phlixi_o | ...from jan 19 (2016) https://blog.jolla.com/taalojarvi_early_access/ | 16:43 |
| eugenio | wasn't there on 2.0.1.7 but only on the unicorn? | 16:43 |
| HtheB | so I was wondering if it will be available in an upcoming version | 16:44 |
| eugenio | er... tablet? | 16:44 |
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| HtheB | eugenio: unicorn is probably less rare | 16:44 |
| eugenio | right | 16:44 |
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| phlixi_o | HtheB: this might help? i have no clue.. https://together.jolla.com/question/127217/2017-android-sd-card-support/ | 16:45 |
| eugenio | there is also the intex phone coming up next month | 16:45 |
| eugenio | maybe they will release 2.0.2 directly and drop 2.0.1? | 16:45 |
| phlixi_o | ...and i still think this is the correct approach: https://together.jolla.com/question/40802/how-to-format-your-usd-card-to-btrfs-and-share-space-with-android/ | 16:46 |
| phlixi_o | ...that said, i think we two should not talk about sdcards and android on SFOS :-) | 16:46 |
| HtheB | phlixi_o: you should realize that my dad is not so techincal | 16:50 |
| HtheB | so removing the sd card to read it by his notebook, is the easiest way for him | 16:50 |
| HtheB | he has a 64GB uSD card | 16:50 |
| HtheB | which means that he needs to format it as exfat | 16:50 |
| Kabouik_ | Err, bad news phlixi_o. At least they say "yet"! | 16:51 |
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| HtheB | phlixi_o: so I can't use the sharing option, hope you understand why I insist to have this to work | 16:55 |
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| r0kk3rz | sailfish is perhaps not the best fit for the 'not so technical' yet | 17:00 |
| phlixi_o | well, perhaps it would be possible to teach him how to connect via sftp, rsync or whatever directly on the device instead of taking it out before doing that | 17:08 |
| phlixi_o | ... HtheB in the end he will use some sort of filebrowser to acces the files, its not that big of a diference to point that filebrowser to a folder on the jolla compared to a folder in the sdcard reader... | 17:09 |
| phlixi_o | but of course you can insist :-) | 17:10 |
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| the_mgt | HtheB: what is the os he is using? | 17:42 |
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| HtheB | the_mgt: I've bought him a Jolla | 18:24 |
| HtheB | because he was using the N9 before | 18:24 |
| HtheB | he didn't like Android | 18:24 |
| HtheB | but we can't get around Android (because of the Apps) | 18:25 |
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| HtheB | My dad is at least familair with the Sailfish UI because of Harmattan | 18:30 |
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| the_mgt | HtheB: os on the computer, i mean | 18:33 |
| HtheB | win7 | 18:34 |
| the_mgt | he could access the data via cyberduck, I guess | 18:34 |
| HtheB | but thats the problem | 18:34 |
| HtheB | he takes a lot of videos and pictures | 18:34 |
| HtheB | when he's somewhere, he rather wants to copy files directly to someones pc using just a microsd adapter | 18:35 |
| HtheB | (SD Card) | 18:35 |
| HtheB | you cant just install/download some software for this :( | 18:35 |
| HtheB | I dont know what to do atm | 18:35 |
| the_mgt | write an app that pushes the pictures to the sdcard | 18:36 |
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| the_mgt | either regularly or on demand. cron would probably not be a good idea | 18:36 |
| the_mgt | anyway, time for lunch | 18:36 |
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| HtheB | the_mgt: I've made a symlink to the Camera | 18:40 |
| HtheB | so that works ok | 18:40 |
| HtheB | the problem is just that the Android apps can't see the files on the SD Card at all | 18:40 |
| HtheB | So when you try to share a picture, it's just not working | 18:40 |
| HtheB | bon apetite! | 18:41 |
| HtheB | will be waiting for you :) | 18:41 |
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| HtheB | the_mgt: still lunch? | 19:25 |
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| HtheB | phlixi: ok I give up | 20:18 |
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| HtheB | phlixi: you there? | 20:59 |
| HtheB | everyone dead? | 21:02 |
| HtheB | 0. | 21:03 |
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| HtheB | coderus: ping | 21:05 |
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| EyeA | Jolla | 21:52 |
| EyeA | )01!@ | 21:52 |
| EyeA | )0hh | 21:52 |
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