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| kimmoli | that was a question, so i assume yes. | 06:44 |
|---|---|---|
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| the_mgt | Nicd-: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ergodox-ez-an-incredible-mechanical-keyboard#/ there is also this one | 11:55 |
| Nicd- | cool | 12:03 |
| Sidde | it's a nice keyboard, but no officiall solutions for !english layout | 12:04 |
| r0kk3rz | interesting | 12:07 |
| r0kk3rz | although somewhat surprising that we need a crowdfunding campaign for a keyboard | 12:07 |
| Sidde | there is very few ergo keyboards these days | 12:08 |
| Sidde | especially with swedish layout | 12:08 |
| spider-mario | I have ordered that one | 12:08 |
| spider-mario | but they still haven’t shipped it | 12:09 |
| spider-mario | they told me march/april | 12:09 |
| spider-mario | (I placed my order towards the end of january) | 12:09 |
| tbr | I'd build that one if I'd have the money to spare: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160223-matt-adereths-open-source-3d-printed-ergonomic-dactyl-keyboard-is-truly-amazing.html | 12:09 |
| spider-mario | so if you go for this one, don’t expect it to receive it very quickly :/ | 12:09 |
| r0kk3rz | Sidde: the keycaps look pretty standard, im sure you can get ones with whatever symbols you wanted | 12:11 |
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| Sidde | r0kk3rz: no, english keyboards have too few letters | 12:11 |
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| Sidde | r0kk3rz: you need 2 keys right of L and one key right of P | 12:12 |
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| r0kk3rz | ah i see | 12:13 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah that is a problem | 12:13 |
| Sidde | r0kk3rz: most languages have more letters than english | 12:13 |
| Sidde | english lacks both vowels, letters and sounds. Weird language | 12:13 |
| Amu | english is just stupid ;) | 12:13 |
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| r0kk3rz | this is true | 12:14 |
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| the_mgt | wrt keyboards: I ordered a waytools textblade last year in february, they still are not shipping | 12:28 |
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| spider-mario | ow… | 12:33 |
| r0kk3rz | the_mgt: a late shipping crowdfunding?! say it isnt so! | 12:35 |
| the_mgt | no crowdfunding | 12:36 |
| the_mgt | a "real" company | 12:36 |
| the_mgt | and it is a fascinating psychological case. unlike jolla, they regulaly reported what exactly is going wrong, why they are not shipping. in large detail with video, foto, etc | 12:37 |
| the_mgt | each month they claimed "we ship next month" | 12:37 |
| the_mgt | and the people are not a iota happier, although they got information in abundance | 12:37 |
| r0kk3rz | so they are just incompetent or are there genuine things out of their control | 12:37 |
| r0kk3rz | like suppliers and what have you | 12:38 |
| the_mgt | at first, they had production problems due to bad materials. atm, it seems like they have a shitload full of assmebled devices in their office | 12:38 |
| the_mgt | they are only one minor fixing of a firmware bug away of delivering to a testing group | 12:38 |
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| the_mgt | it is kind of a real dark comdey/satire. a bit of kafka, a bit of camus and a huge ragefest in the forums | 12:39 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah i can imagine, if they're really being transparent then the amateur CEOs will be picking it to shreds | 12:40 |
| the_mgt | it is a train wreck | 12:43 |
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| the_mgt | the focus of the textblade is more on mobile typing, but the whole need for expensive and fine keyboards should give a certain hint at mobile phone manufactures, that there might actually be a market for a phone with physical keyboard | 12:45 |
| Yaniel | remains to be seen if UHK can actually ship | 12:47 |
| Yaniel | but so far they have done a neat job at keeping their act together | 12:47 |
| r0kk3rz | the_mgt: manufacturers dont want keyboards though, because they're hard to actually make | 12:48 |
| r0kk3rz | less parts, less things to break, its a phone manufacturers dream really | 12:48 |
| r0kk3rz | even if it arguable makes an inferior product | 12:48 |
| r0kk3rz | although, blackberry are still doing keyboards and their products arent flying off the shelves | 12:54 |
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| the_mgt | I dunno. Apple is capable of making rather fine keyboards (at least to my taste) and had a history of devices with physical buttons. still they ommited it in their phone, because they assumed most people do not need them | 12:54 |
| the_mgt | nokia had some rather fine devices too. sure, if done cheap, they are crap | 12:55 |
| the_mgt | I would be happy with the small keyboard of the sony m600, too, as a slider | 12:55 |
| nh1402 | r0kk3rz: their products aren't flying off the shelves because they left it too late to make a decent phone. | 12:58 |
| nh1402 | they relied on the old form factor for far too long, and it almost killed their phone division | 12:59 |
| r0kk3rz | nh1402: why is it too late? blackberry still exists and is still releasing phones | 12:59 |
| nh1402 | too late to make any decent impact on their phone sales | 12:59 |
| nh1402 | they won't be flying off the shelves like they used to do in the past | 13:00 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah but 'modern hardware with a keyboard', what people around these parts keep saying they want, is basically what the PRIV is | 13:01 |
| Guest69750 | I want a N900 with faster hardware, faster then the Neo900 :P | 13:04 |
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| Helle | the weight balance and portrait-ness are important | 13:05 |
| Helle | err, landscape-ness | 13:05 |
| nh1402 | I think they mean a landscape keyboard on a phone | 13:05 |
| tbr | you misspelled it, it should be called Nekro900 ;-þ | 13:05 |
| nh1402 | which Blackberry have never done iirc | 13:05 |
| tbr | blackberry did that funny square thing | 13:05 |
| r0kk3rz | nh1402: then they're starting to split hairs. the choice is keyboard or not, there isnt a wide variety of keyboard styles to choose from | 13:06 |
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| Helle | yeah, landscape and the weightbalance is important as a factor | 13:06 |
| Nicd- | I want a nokia communicator with a keyboard and hidpi screen inside | 13:07 |
| Nicd- | and a big battery | 13:07 |
| nh1402 | well if someone can cough up enough money then they can get an ODM such as HTC to make it for them, they have the experience. | 13:07 |
| Helle | I have they keyboard TOH and it has exactly what I was afraid of, because it doesn't move the battery into the keyboard, it's top heavy | 13:07 |
| the_mgt | I'd take the E7, with an sd card slot, maybe | 13:07 |
| tbr | and I want a steak sandwich | 13:07 |
| Helle | so keyboard TOH, while it does mean I can use my phone as an emergency terminal, it is not as comfortable as using the N900 for it was | 13:08 |
| tbr | Helle: you could always replace the keyboard backplate with one fashioned out of depleted uranium, would restore weight balance | 13:08 |
| nh1402 | Helle: well you could always make another keyboard OH which moves the battery (or adds a second one) to the keyboard | 13:08 |
| r0kk3rz | tbr: yes, thats what i need, a steak sandwich. good thinking | 13:08 |
| tbr | r0kk3rz: also much easier to obtain than a jackalope phone | 13:09 |
| nh1402 | you could also update the hardware in the TOH while you're at it | 13:11 |
| r0kk3rz | it needs updating already? | 13:11 |
| Helle | nh1402: I've been pondering doing just that, recycle the TOH keyboard membrane as it is the hardest to get part | 13:11 |
| tbr | TBH what I'd probably nowadays settle for is a keyboardless smartphone and have something like the "GPD Win" in the pocket | 13:11 |
| nh1402 | as in throw in another more up to date SoC in the TOH, and more RAM | 13:11 |
| tbr | will be very interesting to see if it makes it to market and at which price point | 13:12 |
| nh1402 | and do some fancy MPI for the 2 SoC's to talk | 13:12 |
| r0kk3rz | tbr: yeah ive been wondering whether or not resurrecting the PDA concept is worthy | 13:13 |
| r0kk3rz | remove the 'phone' part out of a smartphone and focus on computing style features | 13:13 |
| nh1402 | would be interesting if someone made a keyboard module for teh G5 | 13:13 |
| tbr | r0kk3rz: I had a Jornada 720. Need I explain it further? | 13:13 |
| r0kk3rz | tbr: well thats a think i never knew existed, but yeah more portable computer than phone | 13:15 |
| Helle | because of a bunch of reasons, I am currently using a old Palm based device as an eBook reader.... | 13:15 |
| r0kk3rz | s/think/thing | 13:15 |
| Helle | weight balance, backlighting, physical buttons, jog dial, etc | 13:15 |
| tbr | r0kk3rz: windows HPC was even more niche than PPC. You could even somehow reflash that thing to run Linux... | 13:16 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah these days you'd just chuck a cherrytrail in it | 13:17 |
| tbr | that's the GPD-Win design, yes | 13:17 |
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| tbr | a few years ago intel already tried to relaunch the concept under the UMPC flag. I don't think it got far anywhere outside of Japan. | 13:18 |
| r0kk3rz | i guess people already cobble such devices together anyway | 13:19 |
| r0kk3rz | out of tablets and keyboard cases | 13:19 |
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| tbr | I've done that for years and it always sucks | 13:20 |
| * tbr had an Archos PMA430 with USB keyboard, very unweildy unless on a table | 13:20 | |
| tbr | same for the Archos 101 gen10 with keyboard | 13:21 |
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| Helle | but phone design, I have tiny hands, weight balance is so much more of an issue, and it's ridiculous how little manufacturers seem to care | 13:21 |
| r0kk3rz | Helle: yes its ridiculous isnt it, that we have such 'personal' devices yet they're all the same | 13:22 |
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| Helle | r0kk3rz: well, in the age of the featurephone I was convinced that about 70% of the models sold where just there to push people to the two highest profit margin models, most of the phones not even being meant to be sold, just to make you gradually step up your price, or step down your expectations | 13:26 |
| the_mgt | there are non-techie people who just want a phone. they bought these devices | 13:29 |
| r0kk3rz | Helle: yeah im not convinced that we've ever seen properly personalised devices yet | 13:33 |
| r0kk3rz | its something ive been noticing more since i have a jolla phone, the learning curve of the gesture UI matters not to anyone but me | 13:34 |
| Helle | the_mgt: no, they where happily guided into the profit margins | 13:34 |
| r0kk3rz | because nobody else but me ever uses my phone | 13:34 |
| the_mgt | Helle: my mom and dad always bought the cheap shit. or were given last years midrange shit | 13:35 |
| the_mgt | and they were happy | 13:35 |
| Helle | r0kk3rz: I've seen parts of the gesture UI, inconsistently, applied to Android and Apple stuff | 13:35 |
| r0kk3rz | Helle: sure, but its more the point that it doesnt matter what the OS is or does, because i'm the only one that needs to know how to use it | 13:36 |
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| Helle | r0kk3rz: well, the problem with Android there is, everyone seems to be inventing their own UI | 13:51 |
| r0kk3rz | why is that a problem? | 13:52 |
| Helle | r0kk3rz: a very inconsistent experience, you keep having to learn a new UI per application | 13:53 |
| Helle | (fun one, swipe to the corner in Youtube is minimize video, in Twitch, it's maximize....) | 13:53 |
| r0kk3rz | im not sure you can ever solve that particular issue | 13:55 |
| r0kk3rz | unless you go the apple route, and have everything (hardware, software, services) provided by one company | 13:56 |
| Helle | r0kk3rz: well, thing is, "gestures" weren't a thing when Android started and Google never issued even guidelines | 13:58 |
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| r0kk3rz | yes that probably doesnt help the matter any | 14:01 |
| r0kk3rz | but im not sure you can ever have guidelines rich enough to cover everyones usecases | 14:01 |
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| * cb400f begins to set up his Jolla tablet | 20:47 | |
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| wmarone | lucky you | 20:49 |
| wmarone | heh | 20:49 |
| cb400f | yep, can barely believe my luck.. a guy selling his tablet after only a couple of days of having it, at a very reasonable price... including lastucase :-) | 20:52 |
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| r0kk3rz | cb400f: is nice? you like? | 20:54 |
| cb400f | seems very nice... but I'm just working through the first run wizard now | 20:55 |
| r0kk3rz | ah | 20:55 |
| cb400f | but it looks pretty and feels nice | 20:55 |
| r0kk3rz | which is always a plus | 20:55 |
| r0kk3rz | i held one at FOSDEM, seemed fairly heavy but otherwise nice | 20:56 |
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| cb400f | might be a bit heavy... most other tablets I have handled have been 10" ... so this one is a lightweight in comparison | 20:57 |
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| r0kk3rz | i guess i havent held other tablets so i dont know | 20:58 |
| cb400f | iirc according to specs it's only some 20-30 grams heavier than an ipad mini | 21:01 |
| cb400f | but it does seem that it will feel heavy pretty quickly if you hold it in one hand while reading for example | 21:02 |
| cb400f | but sfos looks nice on a bigger screen :-) | 21:02 |
| cb400f | and it seems very responsive | 21:03 |
| r0kk3rz | it should be! loads of ram and quad core processor after all | 21:03 |
| cb400f | more native apps have been ported than I expected at first glance | 21:05 |
| cb400f | especially "books" and "tidings" were pretty critical to me... with those and the Jolla apps, the basics are covered | 21:07 |
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| cb400f | doesn't come with the "final" 2.0, so needs to be updated | 21:11 |
| cb400f | but now the phone feels small and cramped and slow ;-) | 21:12 |
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