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| sakustar | ty | 00:44 |
|---|---|---|
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| TMavica | It is a good profit businness if buy and sell intex phone to europe | 05:03 |
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| r0kk3rz | TMavica: sounds mostly illegal, unless you do it from HK or something | 08:36 |
| Stskeeps | might be a bands problem | 08:37 |
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| tbr | I thought someone claimed bands to mostly be compatible, but then that's all just hearsay | 08:47 |
| r0kk3rz | tbr: i would have thought the bands were ok, generally speaking euro/asia/oceania agree with each other | 08:49 |
| r0kk3rz | ive had no trouble taking the jphone all over, for instance | 08:49 |
| tbr | *nod* | 08:49 |
| tbr | I guess it's DSDS, so that will also work most places, except for Japan | 08:50 |
| r0kk3rz | sometimes you have to be careful with 3g/4g bands and particular carriers though | 08:50 |
| tbr | unless they can DSDS between LTE/3G now instead of 3G/GSM | 08:50 |
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| r0kk3rz | i had an HTC that was working fine in aus/japan/euro | 08:51 |
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| Bysmyyr | more rumors: http://yle.fi/uutiset/kannykkakaupunki_yrittaa_paluuta_juurille__saako_salo_uuden_valmistajan_nokian_tilalle/8691466 | 08:53 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah 3g UMTS bands are 900/2100, which are the same as aus | 08:54 |
| r0kk3rz | 1800/2300/2500 for LTE | 08:55 |
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| Sebban | Is it possible to start the Jolla phone without a SIM-card inserted? It says yes on the web, but I'm thinking maybe something has changed with the new Sailfish OS, because I can't boot my new phone for which I have not received a SIM-card yet. (I have not micro-SIM-cards to try either.) | 12:33 |
| Tegu | yea, it should work without sim card | 12:33 |
| Sebban | When I try to boot it just enters a loop. It can remain fine in recovery mode though. | 12:33 |
| Sebban | I tried a factory reset (even though it's straight from factory), but it didn't help. | 12:34 |
| Coolgeek | just tried with my jolla and it boot without my sim card | 12:36 |
| Sebban | Ok, thanks for testing :) | 12:36 |
| kid | works fine with no SIM-card here too. I am on 2.0.1.7 | 12:37 |
| tbr | it works a-ok without sim, also on first-boot | 12:37 |
| Sebban | wonder what's wrong with my new phone then :( | 12:38 |
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| r0kk3rz | Sebban: fully charged? | 12:44 |
| tbr | yeah, make sure it's charged | 12:45 |
| Sebban | I don't know. I won't tell me the battery level. When I connect the charger it boots (and gets stuck in the loop) automatically | 12:45 |
| tbr | it should reach act-dead | 12:46 |
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| yestoall | doesn't sound like normal behaviour... | 12:46 |
| tbr | unless you keep messing with things and pressing buttons, ofc. then it will try a full boot | 12:46 |
| tbr | I'd do this: remove battery, plug battery in, plug in usb cable connected to a PC. don't touch anything for an hour. | 12:47 |
| tbr | it should just sit there and charge | 12:47 |
| tbr | if it does other things, then something is substantially wrong | 12:48 |
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| r0kk3rz | Sebban: in the info underneath the battery, it will have an MFG date | 12:50 |
| r0kk3rz | what is it? | 12:50 |
| Sebban | r0kk3rz: 12,2013 | 12:53 |
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| r0kk3rz | yeah ok, so its either been warehoused for quite some time or possibly a refurb | 12:54 |
| Sebban | I hope they tried to boot it after refurbishing :D | 12:55 |
| r0kk3rz | insert > remove the battery a few times, theres a known issue with the battery contacts over time | 12:55 |
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| Sebban | but even though the battery is dead or loose, shouldn't it be able to boot when the charger is connected? | 12:56 |
| r0kk3rz | yes its a bit concerning really, but it will take time for you to send back to jolla | 12:59 |
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| Sebban | yeah, I already waited 5 weeks to get this one, but I guess I could wait some more... :D | 12:59 |
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| coderus | just get a new battery | 13:02 |
| Sebban | ...but I don't even know if it is the battery that is the problem | 13:04 |
| Sebban | I've read about the connector problem. The connectors look clean and in place. They should have good contact. | 13:04 |
| r0kk3rz | Sebban: yeah let it charge a while and see if that coaxes it to life, and contact the jolla zendesk and tell them whats up | 13:06 |
| Sebban | Yeah, I'm making a ticket right now :) | 13:06 |
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| r0kk3rz | Sebban: welcome to the sailfishos family! i see you're already off to a flying start | 13:07 |
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| Sebban | :D . I'm not one to give up just because I received a bad sample. I want a phone with Sailfish and I'm gonna get it. | 13:08 |
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| r0kk3rz | Sebban: unfortunately the onboarding procedure is a little rocky with the JPhone, but once you're up and running then its mostly smooth sailing | 13:09 |
| Sebban | yeah, I have some friends with Jolla phones and they're happy, so they got me to order one | 13:10 |
| lainwir3d | o/ | 13:13 |
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| Sebban | I tried the shell in the recovery mode (not doing anything stupid, just looking ;). The battery is at 54%, and I can mount the root filesystem without problems. Can't find any systemboot.log though, so I guess it dies before it can write the log file. I read that the journal is configured to be non-persistent so I guess I can't read the journal output from the failed boots. | 14:20 |
| r0kk3rz | Sebban: charge to full | 14:21 |
| Sebban | alright | 14:21 |
| r0kk3rz | Sebban: also, its systemd so journalctl | 14:21 |
| Sebban | Yeah, but I need the journal from the previous boot, and it's not stored. I read that sailfish also has some /var/log/systemboot.log which is persistent across boots, but it's not there. | 14:24 |
| r0kk3rz | that needs to be turned on | 14:24 |
| Sebban | I guess maybe I could enable persistent journaling from the recovery shell to get a boot log | 14:24 |
| Sebban | yeah | 14:24 |
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| r0kk3rz | but with your battery being lowish, i expect its battery | 14:24 |
| Sebban | yeah, I'll charge it to 100 before trying anything else | 14:24 |
| r0kk3rz | Sebban: if its ok on full charge, then you need to clean battery contacts | 14:30 |
| r0kk3rz | its a bit sensitive | 14:30 |
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| Sebban | I was playing around with a Beagleboard once in a project. It also died at the boot and it took some time until we figured out that someone had accidentaly touched the current limiter knob on the power supply we were using =D | 14:34 |
| Sebban | accidentally* | 14:35 |
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| Sebban | battery at 100 now. Still same behaviour | 15:56 |
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| Sebban | Even with persistent journaling enabled, it does not seem to get to the point where it writes the journal to disk. Factory reset seems to be doing it's thing though (it resets /etc/systemd/journald.conf to its original state). | 16:06 |
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| Sebban | So I guess some component is just broken... | 16:07 |
| r0kk3rz | Sebban: do you know what sfos version is on it? | 16:09 |
| Sebban | r0kk3rz: 2.0.0.10 | 16:10 |
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| r0kk3rz | they must have borked it when they reflashed it then | 16:10 |
| Sebban | I ran two while-loops in the recovery shell to load it to ~100% CPU usage, and it doesn't die, so I guess that indicates that the power supply may not be the thing that's faulty. | 16:11 |
| Sebban | yeah | 16:11 |
| r0kk3rz | because thats only a few months old, rather than the olde timey version from 2013 | 16:11 |
| Sebban | I wish there was a way to get a boot console. | 16:13 |
| r0kk3rz | there is, if you rebuild the kernel :D | 16:14 |
| Sebban | hah, I'm not in the mood for setting up cross-compiling today | 16:15 |
| Sebban | they could have just added something like, "hold VolUp for boot messages instead of logo" | 16:16 |
| r0kk3rz | i think its not that easy | 16:16 |
| r0kk3rz | we've had this conversation around these parts before | 16:17 |
| Sebban | ah | 16:17 |
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| the_mgt | is it anywhere mentioned if the Aqua Fish supports sd cards of any variety? | 17:10 |
| coderus | the_mgt: http://reviewjolla.blogspot.ru/2016/02/intex-aqua-fish-smartphone-specs.html | 17:12 |
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| the_mgt | ah, thanks | 17:16 |
| the_mgt | is that a software/licence "we do not want to pay fees in order to anounce larger card support" limit? afaik the original jphone does more than 32gb, too, but also only claims 32gb? is that the exfat thing? | 17:17 |
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| Stskeeps | the_mgt: >32gb fat has to have exfat | 17:18 |
| Stskeeps | by sd card standard | 17:18 |
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| coderus | so ther e shouldnt be any technical limits? | 17:19 |
| coderus | but for me new devices are not interesting without 5ghz wifi support | 17:20 |
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| phlixi_o | i assume this means the intex phone comes without 5ghz wifi | 17:32 |
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| coderus | as far i know, yes | 17:34 |
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| the_mgt | Stskeeps: what is the theoretical capability of the sd card reader in the original jphone? 64gb? 128gb? | 17:37 |
| the_mgt | and yes, 5ghz would be nice, but i could live without | 17:37 |
| kjetilho | anyone know which LTE frequency it supports? | 17:38 |
| phlixi_o | i use a 64gb sd card in my jolla (since 2013/12) no problems at all (but i never take it out, thus i do not need fat or similar, its btrfs) | 17:38 |
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| phlixi_o | i can harldy imagine that the controler has any limits regarding the size of the sd | 17:39 |
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| the_mgt | according to tjc, 128gb works fine | 17:39 |
| nh1402 | what about 2TB | 17:40 |
| phlixi_o | the reson why there is stuff like "supports sd cards with up to x gb" is afaik never because of the controler | 17:40 |
| kjetilho | nh1402++ | 17:40 |
| the_mgt | that would make your card about 4 times more expensive then the phone, I guess | 17:40 |
| the_mgt | acccording to a friend of mine, the exfat-nofuse package from warehouse worked fine for the card formatted in his camera. although my last info is, that package broke with latest testing os update | 17:41 |
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| nh1402 | no idea why someone would want to put a 2TB sd card on a phone. | 17:47 |
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| kjetilho | no idea why anyone would buy a 2TB harddisk for their workstation | 17:48 |
| kjetilho | it's like, millions of copies of everything Shakespear wrote -- and the monkeys, too! | 17:49 |
| tbr | "] Ubuntu Tablet grabs "best of the show" award at #MWC16" - heh, let's hope they don't suffer the same fate of the last best of show tablet | 17:52 |
| fennekki | 2TB isn't even enough to backup my computers ._. | 17:52 |
| the_mgt | 2TB and larger was invented by the devil, you'd need to always have a redundant copy or you lose all your data at once | 17:54 |
| phlixi_o | 2tb should be more than enough for any computer ever... | 17:54 |
| the_mgt | I have a mirrored 4tb storage in the basement, it takes all important files and the backups of our laptops and desktops | 17:55 |
| phlixi_o | i am keen to further reduce and would like to claim "640gb should be enough for anybody" | 17:55 |
| phlixi_o | or even KB | 17:55 |
| phlixi_o | :D | 17:55 |
| the_mgt | for ram, yes | 17:55 |
| phlixi_o | ok, you got me | 17:56 |
| r0kk3rz | i would preface that with "given fast enough internet..." | 17:56 |
| kjetilho | I foresee a world market of perhaps five mobile phones. | 17:56 |
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| phlixi_o | :) | 17:56 |
| phlixi_o | gn8 | 17:56 |
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| nh1402 | 2TB on a PC makes sense, people can have a wealth of games installed, films, music, software, all them combined can take a lot of space. | 18:22 |
| nh1402 | the same can't be said for a phone. | 18:22 |
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| fennekki | why couldn't you have all that on a phone? | 18:26 |
| nh1402 | games on a phone don't take 50GB like some games | 18:27 |
| nh1402 | GTA V for example that takes up 65GB | 18:27 |
| Smar | blame bluray for that :P | 18:29 |
| fennekki | oh, but they will take up that much space once we have that much space on phones | 18:29 |
| Smar | if your phone ate blurays too, the games would take that space... :P | 18:29 |
| r0kk3rz | if your phone has a 4k screen, then i dont see why they wouldnt take up that much space | 18:30 |
| the_mgt | I find apps in general are talking up quite some space | 18:30 |
| raa700 | apps in general have a metric fuckton of useless stuff | 18:31 |
| the_mgt | I grew up in the dos age, when 10mb harddisks were hot shit. today, a phone with 16gb internal memor is a joke | 18:31 |
| Smar | the_mgt: did your 10 Mb harddisc contain 1080p video? :P | 18:32 |
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| the_mgt | my ipad4 is fine and does lots of nice stuff, but storing apps for 3 family members leaves no room for music and videos | 18:32 |
| the_mgt | and yes, you could say "get a device with an sd card slot", still, you see on the jolla, that there is no smart mechanism to autosave all taken fotos on sdcard, to store apps (native or android) on the sdcard without a hassle | 18:34 |
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| r0kk3rz | sailfish is hardly state of the art in this regard though | 18:35 |
| r0kk3rz | you can happily store photos, movies, music on sdcard quite fine | 18:36 |
| Smar | (we need apple fanbois to defend sailfish in same manner they defend iOS) | 18:36 |
| nh1402 | good luck trying to play GTA V on your phone | 18:36 |
| Smar | nh1402: I have GTA 3 in my iPad... :D | 18:36 |
| r0kk3rz | and one of my mates had max payne on his android tab thing | 18:37 |
| nh1402 | still not GTA V | 18:37 |
| r0kk3rz | so playing gta V is not entirely out of the question really | 18:37 |
| Smar | nh1402: wait for 5 years or so :P | 18:37 |
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| the_mgt | r0kk3rz: my nokia and sony phones had an option to store taken photos/films on the sd/mmc card. still, that leaves the app problem. I guess it introduces so much trouble for app coders, that nobody wants to implement it properly | 18:40 |
| nh1402 | still doesn't explain how people would fill a 2TB micro sd card on a phone today. | 18:40 |
| the_mgt | pr0n | 18:40 |
| r0kk3rz | vr porn for use with gear vr | 18:41 |
| r0kk3rz | or google cardboard | 18:41 |
| the_mgt | haha | 18:41 |
| r0kk3rz | 2tb easy | 18:41 |
| r0kk3rz | next question | 18:41 |
| Smar | too bad proper vr solutions still needs powerful computer ;) | 18:41 |
| nh1402 | the_mgt: implement what properly? | 18:42 |
| r0kk3rz | Smar: oh does it now? http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2016/02/i-tried-vr-porn-and-i-liked-it/ | 18:43 |
| the_mgt | storing apps on sdcard | 18:43 |
| r0kk3rz | because that looks like a gear vr to me | 18:43 |
| r0kk3rz | in an article about porn on the gear vr | 18:43 |
| nh1402 | the_mgt: that would be due to security in some cases. They don't want the user to have access to certain files. | 18:43 |
| Smar | r0kk3rz: where that talks about computer? | 18:44 |
| r0kk3rz | what computer? it uses a phone | 18:46 |
| Smar | r0kk3rz: does it really calculate anything, or just shows a video? | 18:47 |
| r0kk3rz | video | 18:48 |
| r0kk3rz | although it tracks your head movements | 18:48 |
| Mikaela | http://laurakbuzz.com/2016/02/17/female-perspective-vr-porn-left-me-deeply-unsettled/ | 18:49 |
| Smar | yes, but hardly can say it to be anything new then | 18:49 |
| nh1402 | the thing with VR is it has to run at a high frame rate | 18:49 |
| nh1402 | otherwise people would be sick | 18:50 |
| nh1402 | 90fps+ is what they're are targeting i believe | 18:50 |
| r0kk3rz | Smar: i didnt say it was new, just a way to use 2tb on a phone :P | 18:50 |
| Smar | r0kk3rz: ...what, it even requires local storage? something like that oughta be easily streamable :D | 18:50 |
| nh1402 | and people won't be as immersed if the graphics quality isn't good enough (or if the game is terrible), so they have to up the textures and stuff | 18:51 |
| nh1402 | making it even more demanding | 18:51 |
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| the_mgt | from what I can tell, vr might be even a bigger mass market flop than 3d | 19:08 |
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| the_mgt | I work in a university department were we have a non-moving driving simulator, in order to do tests of traffic situation and how people react | 19:10 |
| the_mgt | and although the graphics is shit, if we operate the simulator as if it was a real car, with all the motion and moves it makes, most people get instantly sick | 19:10 |
| Nicd- | oh, 3d <3 it was all the rage (so much so that we couldn't buy a new TV without 3d), now you can't really find any new TV *with* 3d | 19:11 |
| the_mgt | because your brain is so much used to the senso-motoric feedback loop, that it makes you vomit if the motoric part doesnt react the way your sensors expect it | 19:11 |
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| Pebby | the_mgt: clearly the solution is to remove the brains from people so that they can enjoy vr | 19:12 |
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| the_mgt | Pebby: we are working on putting them into a vat, replacing the whole sensomotoric loop with our simulator, yes | 19:13 |
| the_mgt | the problem is, getting the brain back into the body after the test finished | 19:13 |
| Pebby | Oh, good, that will open up lots of exciting new business opportunities | 19:13 |
| Pebby | I am glad marketers and product developers will have so many exciting new revenue streams | 19:14 |
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| the_mgt | the worst thing in the driving sim is, when you drive down a curb or hit a bump or so and the nose of the car moves up and down rapidly, simulating suspension in action. combine that with the simulation of about 100km/h and most people will feel sick for the rest of the day. about 5-10% will puke | 19:16 |
| the_mgt | I guess that kills vr for most games, especially modern first person shooters | 19:17 |
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| jaacoppi | yeah, a game by definition needs to be something else than reality or it won't be fun | 19:30 |
| jaacoppi | imagine playing a boxing game with vr and pressure sensors on your face | 19:31 |
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| Pebby | I have been in game development for many years... I don't think the game has to be something besides reality, but it does have to be novel. People enjoy a whole lot of 'real' experiences every day. I have dreamt of making a gardening game for years. ;) | 19:36 |
| Smar | fantasy life ;) | 19:36 |
| Smar | erm | 19:37 |
| Smar | well anyway | 19:37 |
| r0kk3rz | jaacoppi: most games are just dressed up work... | 19:37 |
| Pebby | with a reward cycle more satisfying than work | 19:38 |
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| Pebby | which is why they're games | 19:38 |
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| r0kk3rz | it depends on what work you find satisfying | 19:38 |
| r0kk3rz | i agree that for a lot of people games are probably more satisfying than their lives | 19:39 |
| Pebby | well... I bet there is a venn diagram, but games and work (careers, maybe) touch on a lot of the same stuff | 19:39 |
| Pebby | i want to enjoy my time, I want to feel like I'm growing or getting better (mastery), I want to feel productive | 19:39 |
| Smar | isn’t the major difference that most of work is just repetition of old (grinding) with no rewards... :) | 19:40 |
| Pebby | those are high level general statements... someone might hate making shoes while someone might love it | 19:40 |
| r0kk3rz | Smar: who says work doesnt have rewards? | 19:40 |
| Pebby | your only reward is money, Smar... which we are finding out is a pretty lousy reward (both in games and at work!) | 19:40 |
| Smar | Pebby: yes | 19:41 |
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| Pebby | or the baseline reward is money, but there can be jobs that touch on those higher level statements and provide actual satisfaction (like games!) | 19:41 |
| Smar | but for this comparison, I think we should leave self-employers and other people that are not in traditional work-situation :) | 19:41 |
| Pebby | I am in a traditional work situation... been making games for over 12 years, and I can tell you a whole lot of the reasons I enjoyed my job even though I was at a traditional office job | 19:42 |
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| Smar | Pebby: I wouldn’t call gaming industry a traditional workplace given you have any say on what you are writing | 19:43 |
| Smar | (i.e. your decisions affect to how the game would turn to) | 19:44 |
| Pebby | Hmm... maybe our definitions are too limited or on different pages. Honestly, those three things I listed as high level goals can be found even as a barista at a coffee shop. | 19:44 |
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| Pebby | I used to deliver pizzas and I found my job very rewarding, it just didn't pay well. :P | 19:45 |
| Smar | :> | 19:46 |
| Smar | but even with delivering pizzas, you are actually making something on your own, instead of just doing something someone tells to you | 19:47 |
| Smar | in that sense, I see what you mean | 19:47 |
| r0kk3rz | im a software developer, i make my own stuff and find it quite rewarding | 19:47 |
| Pebby | all I did was deliver pizza A to point B... I found my own creative space to grow within that framework | 19:47 |
| Smar | but even software development can be that you are just doing something someone tells you to do | 19:47 |
| Pebby | I got to choose what music to listen to, how to optimize my routes when delivering multiple pizzas, how to treat customers to ensure good tips and future orders | 19:48 |
| Smar | those two things are really big two things :P | 19:48 |
| Pebby | But I also understand what you mean... if you feel entirely trapped and are just doing something tells you to, and you don't care about it (or think it's a good idea), and there's no room for that creative space... yeah, that job will be unsatisfying | 19:49 |
| Smar | in programming, if someone tells that ”you need to write this like this, and there is no way to deviate”, you are kind of robot that writes | 19:49 |
| Pebby | which is why I am quitting my job on Friday, haha | 19:49 |
| Smar | so in that kind of situation, the pizza deliverant would have more freedom :P | 19:49 |
| Smar | hehe | 19:49 |
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| r0kk3rz | Smar: completely agreed, this is why i avoid workplaces like that | 19:49 |
| Pebby | yeah, time to return to my roots of pizza delivery ;) | 19:49 |
| r0kk3rz | because, fuck that for a joke | 19:49 |
| Pebby | well because it's awful work and employees can offer so much more than just being cogs in machines... aaaaand the end product tends to suck! | 19:50 |
| Smar | yeap | 19:50 |
| Pebby | or it's this sweatshop mentality where they can deal with a lot of unhappy workers (which I not a place I want to be) | 19:50 |
| Pebby | anyway, from VR to reality in a heartbeat... that was fun. :D bbl | 19:51 |
| Smar | ^^ | 19:51 |
| the_mgt | Pebby: have you seen http://cultivation.sourceforge.net | 19:52 |
| the_mgt | I'd like a port of that for sailfish | 19:53 |
| the_mgt | the author made some other interestin stuff, his transcend in 3d might be a nice vr game | 19:54 |
| the_mgt | http://hcsoftware.sourceforge.net/jason-rohrer/ http://transcend.sourceforge.net | 19:54 |
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| Pebby | the_mgt: Cool! No, I haven't seen that, but I know the author and some of his other games. Thank you. | 22:06 |
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| the_mgt | Pebby: I somehow stumbled across transcend and wrote an ebuild for both transcend and cultivation. just found out that the author has an exhibition of his games in some museum this year | 22:17 |
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